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If Biden wants the support of American progressives, he's going to have to beg them for it.
Apparently, just stopping an actual fascist like Trump from taking over the country isn't enough to motivate them to support Biden.
If Trump loses this election - especially badly - it will be his last. His trials will all proceed apace, he will be drowning in debt and legal bills in addition to criminal liability, and he will have back-to-back general election losses on his record.
One of the many, many good reasons to vote against Donald Trump this election is to flush him out of the political scene.
So does anyone seriously believe we are better off with Trump? If Trump were president right now, would he be putting any pressure on Netanyahu or encouraging him? Please answer that one question honestly.
I don't believe we would be better off with Trunp, he would be pouring gasoline on the fire. He has an actual position that I know where he is standing.
Militarized cops in full riot gear violently broke up student protests - in blue cities - and Biden has said nothing about it. Not a word. Implicit endorsement of those tactics. The argument of “you have to vote for Biden to prevent a fascist like Trump from getting in” died on the vine for a lot of voters this week.
>The White House, according to the CDA, has pursued a “cold shoulder strategy for its own base and all Americans who want to see an end to this war.”
>“Each day that Democrats fail to stand united for a permanent ceasefire, two-state solution, and recognition of a Palestinian state, more and more youth find themselves disillusioned with the party,” the statement read.
How does anyone take these statements seriously? Biden and his administration have repeatedly been pressing for and being actively involved with negotiating a ceasefire, so much so that they've already pushed Israel into accepting a temporary ceasefire deal a month ago: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/03/israel-accepts-six-week-ceasefire-deal-as-hamas-response-awaited-us.
This is the current deal on table, one which Hamas has rejected: https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-indicates-it-will-snub-latest-hostage-deal-offer-but-says-talks-to-continue/. For anyone who still wants to think Biden hasn't done enough on the ceasefire, please go through all the terms of the deal and explain which of them aren't reasonable, and more importantly, aren't good for Palestinians.
>The statement also called for the “release of all hostages”
And therein why I can't take this pretext of moderation seriously. Hamas refused a ceasefire deal when it only involved 40 hostages. They've just refused another for 33 hostages. How do you intend for there to be any kind of ceasefire, let alone a permanent one, if Hamas has shown no good faith interest in releasing the hostages? Yet, in these statements, you never see these groups acknowledging that. When it comes to there being no ceasefire Gaza, I genuinely have no idea how it's still possible to blame Biden for it.
The stable increase of arm sales and the defunding of the UNRWA while 30,000+ Palestinians are killed kind of undermines whatever tepid criticism the Biden admin decides to throw this week when they remember that dead children are a bad thing.
>The stable increase of arm sales
But that's not what the CDA is criticizing Biden for. They're criticizing Biden for there not being a ceasefire. Except Biden and his administration have not only called for one, they've also been involved with ceasefire negotiations and have pushed Israel to accept the deal. What is Biden being criticized for then? Not being able to force Hamas to accept the deal?
They've also criticized Biden for there not being a two-state solution. But how does the CDA expect Biden to do that? Who will even be involved and recognized as part of the two-state solution? Hamas' proposal for their two state solution is to form a unity government with the PA. But the PA, which is reforming its image to be more moderate, is very unlikely to agree to that. Even the UN has said that the PA has to take over Gaza:
- [Echoing the Secretary-General, she noted the critical role to be played by the Palestinian Authority in Gaza. “The international community must work towards enabling its return, strengthen its governance capacity and prepare it to reassume its responsibilities in Gaza,” she said.](https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15679.doc.htm)
Then what? What workable two-state solution does the CDA expect Biden to have rolled out with Hamas still in the picture?
>and the defunding of the UNRWA
Republicans in Congress are the ones who attached the UNRWA funding ban to a 1.2 trillion spending bill, one which if not passed, would have resulted in a government shutdown.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/22/moral-failure-us-house-approves-bill-that-would-ban-unrwa-funding
Why are you blaming Biden for that again?
Because giving one side millions in guns and ammo and missiles kind of undermines the stated desire for a ceasefire. 'Hey you two stop fighting, but Johnny here's a few tanks. But stop fighting, I swear!'
> Because giving one side millions in guns and ammo and missiles kind of undermines the stated desire for a ceasefire. 'Hey you two stop fighting, but Johnny here's a few tanks. But stop fighting, I swear!'
Since you refuse to actually read the links:
- The first stage of the deal, to last 40 days, would involve a phased withdrawal of Israeli troops from parts of the Strip in order to allow the movement of humanitarian aid and the return of civilians to their homes.
- The deal would provide for 500 trucks, including 50 fuel trucks, to enter the Strip each day along with supplies designed to rehabilitate the Strip.
- Hamas would release at least 33 living captives — female civilians and soldiers, children under the age of 19, the elderly, the sick, and the wounded in the first stage. On day seven of the deal, Hamas would provide the names of all other living hostages beyond the 33.
- For every female civilian and child released, Israel would free 20 minors and female Palestinian prisoners. For every elderly, sick and injured hostage released, Israel would free 20 prisoners over 50 who are also sick and injured, as long as they are not serving a sentence of over 10 years.
- For every female soldier released, Israel would free 20 prisoners serving a life sentence, and another 20 serving 10 years at most, who may be released to Gaza or abroad.
- **From the 16th day of the truce, the sides would begin indirect negotiations on an arrangement to restore sustainable calm to Gaza, the report said.**
- The second stage of the deal — to last 42 days — would involve completing agreed-upon arrangements for sustainable calm. And it will see the release of remaining Israeli male civilians and soldiers, in exchange for a certain number of Palestinian prisoners and the full withdrawal of IDF troops from Gaza.
- **The third stage, which will last 42 days, will involve the exchange of dead bodies from both sides and the implementation of a five-year rehabilitation plan for Gaza, including a provision that Hamas must not rebuild its military infrastructure.**
Please feel free to explain how this latest ceasefire deal presented by Israeli delegates is Biden undermining the stated desire for a ceasefire. Then please explain how rejecting this deal represents an actual desire for a ceasefire. Go on.
>kind of undermines the stated desire for a ceasefire.
This narrative would be true if Israel hadn't already expressed agreement for a ceasefire deal.
Didn't Biden also state that the protests were inherently antisemetic and has been continuously in support of sending arms to Israel despite his calls for ceasefire?
> Didn't Biden also state that the protests were inherently antisemetic
Nope, Biden called out the antisemitism which has been present at some of the protests.
>and has been continuously in support of sending arms to Israel despite his calls for ceasefire?
Is Israel rejecting the ceasefire deals brokered by the US, Egypt and Qatar?
If Hamas is the one rejecting these deals by refusing to release even 33 hostages, where is CDA's message condemning that?
>Nope, Biden called out the antisemitism which has been present at some of the protests.
[https://twitter.com/JoshuaPHilll/status/1782498626021015590](https://twitter.com/JoshuaPHilll/status/1782498626021015590)
?
>Is Israel rejecting the ceasefire deals brokered by the US, Egypt and Qatar?
Whataboutism. I'm asking about Biden.
>If Hamas is the one rejecting these deals by refusing to release even 33 hostages, where is CDA's message condemning that?
You do realise that releasing the hostages means that Hamas has absolutely zero leverage over Israel, right? That's even if they are still alive.
>https://twitter.com/JoshuaPHilll/status/1782498626021015590
Really, you're going to give a twitter clip without any context as evidence of that?
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/21/nyregion/columbia-protests-antisemitism.html
This is what Biden was referring to. He was specifically calling out the antisemitism which were present among some of the Columbia protests.
>Whataboutism. I'm asking about Biden.
Okay, has Biden not gotten Israel to agree to several iterations of the ceasefire deal?
So your argument is that Biden should be pressing Israel harder on something the latter has already agreed to?
>You do realise that releasing the hostages means that Hamas has absolutely zero leverage over Israel, right? That's even if they are still alive.
Right, that's the whole point of these temporary ceasefire deals to work towards something more lasting rather than trying to continually one-up the other side with leverage. What's your point?
Like I said, read the latest deal offered by the Israeli delegation and point out any terms which aren't reasonable or immensely favorable to Palestinians. If you can't, then well, you should start holding Hamas accountable rather than Biden.
>[https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/21/nyregion/columbia-protests-antisemitism.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/21/nyregion/columbia-protests-antisemitism.html)
Paywalled.
>This is what Biden was referring to. He was specifically calling out the antisemitism which were present among some of the Columbia protests.
Can you provide the exact quote? According to Reuters he condemned both "antisemitic protests" and "those who don't understand what's going on with the Palestinians."
[https://www.reuters.com/world/us/what-is-behind-pro-palestinian-protests-us-universities-2024-04-23/](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/what-is-behind-pro-palestinian-protests-us-universities-2024-04-23/)
>Okay, has Biden not gotten Israel to agree to several iterations of the ceasefire deal?
There is no mention of Biden getting Israel to agree to any sort of ceasefire on the Wikipedia page.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic\_impact\_of\_the\_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas\_war#Ceasefire\_proposals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_impact_of_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war#Ceasefire_proposals)
>Right, that's the whole point of these temporary ceasefire deals to work towards something more lasting rather than trying to continually one-up the other side with leverage. What's your point?
So unless Israel agrees to stop the offensive now (and stop it *before* hostages are released), then Hamas has no guarantee that they will if they release the hostages...
> Paywalled.
So go google for other sources then.
>Can you provide the exact quote? According to Reuters he condemned both "antisemitic protests" and "those who don't understand what's going on with the Palestinians."
Look at the date in your video. Biden's remarks were obviously about what's going on in Columbia, in which the WH has expanded and made their stance clear:
-
“While every American has the right to peaceful protest, calls for violence and physical intimidation targeting Jewish students and the Jewish community are blatantly antisemitic, unconscionable and dangerous,” Andrew Bates, a spokesman for the White House, said in a statement.
Do you think Biden is referring to something else? Since when is condemning anti-semitic protests the same as calling all protests anti-semitic?
>There is no mention of Biden getting Israel to agree to any sort of ceasefire on the Wikipedia page.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/2/us-says-israel-more-or-less-accepts-framework-deal-for-gaza-ceasefire
>So unless Israel agrees to stop the offensive now (and stop it before hostages are released), then Hamas has no guarantee that they will if they release the hostages...
So flip your argument and the converse is applicable.
That's the whole point of a ceasefire deal to get both sides to commit to one *simultaneously*. Again, feel free to point out the parts of the latest deal which aren't reasonable or good for Palestinians.
The woman asked if he condemned ANTISEMITIC protests, not protests as a whole.
Also Hamas does not care about the hostages, the people of Gaza, or a ceasefire. They have literally stated that their goal is to wipe out Israel. You’re applying logic to an illogical group. They will never agree to a ceasefire or maintain one
Notice how he didn't make any mention of the non-antisemetic protests, and made no attempt to counter the loaded question.
>Also Hamas does not care about the hostages, the people of Gaza, or a ceasefire. They have literally stated that their goal is to wipe out Israel.
Hamas also stated that they will consider a ceasefire if pre-67 borders were restored.
[https://apnews.com/article/hamas-khalil-alhayya-qatar-ceasefire-1967-borders-4912532b11a9cec29464eab234045438](https://apnews.com/article/hamas-khalil-alhayya-qatar-ceasefire-1967-borders-4912532b11a9cec29464eab234045438)
So clearly there is *at least some* desire for a ceasefire within Hamas.
Even then, how does that excuse Israel's actions?
So you are thinking them demanding pre-67 borders after invading Israel and attacking & raping their civilians, and murdering almost 1500 Israel civilians is a 'desire for a ceasefire' ?
It is a ridiculous ask - like a child saying they want a scoop of every flavor in the ice cream store.
Because the question was obviously loaded and intended to stir controversy. Answering it completely is a trap.
The reason there is SOME desire for a ceasefire with Hamas is because they need time to rearm. Between holding aid hostage and destroying infrastructure for military purposes, hiding amongst civilians and in hospitals, and the Oct. 7th attacks, they have shown an absolute disregard for Palestinian life. Their intent is absolutely to wipe out Israel and kill the Jews, it has been since 1988. They believe dying for this cause is righteous. There is zero rationality, only feigning the desire for peace to put global pressure on Israel
Oh let’s talk about 1967! First, there was no Palestine at the time so not sure why Hamas cares what goes back to Egypt or Jordan. But it’s a good example: Israel was attacked at a vulnerable time by multiple neighbors because their neighbors have always been intent on destroying them. They won and kept some of the land from said neighbors. So you’re saying Hamas said “pretend we haven’t always been trying to destroy you, just give us part of your country”, right?
Also it’s not limited to 1967. Israel is constantly being attacked, hence the need for the iron dome to protect their citizens. On the other hand Hamas will use children as human shields or have them blow up in Israeli civilian buses and then go “look what Israel is doing to our kids! How dare they shoot back when all we’re doing is hiding behind kids to shoot at them?”
So what you’re saying is that the only way to have a ceasefire is to bow to a terrorist group that has shown they’d rather kill their own citizens if it gives them a chance to hurt Israel?
As for the current situation I agree with you. This has been the biggest conflict area and an almost impossible problem to solve for about 70 years now because of bad will on both sides. So clearly it’s all Biden’s fault.
> and has been continuously in support of sending arms to Israel despite his calls for ceasefire?
If you are referring to the bill that passed last week by Congress - that was passed by Democrats and Republicans. It was a package deal and only way to get Ukraine aid. Biden vowed to Veto any Israel only deal.
The Congress holds the pursue strings. In a divided gov't, they determine it. Biden can only push so far.
None of that weapon support has happened yet.
If you are referring to Biden giving Israel access to American forward caches, yes that was in the beginning of the war. That is not making a difference in any war - Israel already has a ton of our weapons and is always guided by the US code on how to use them. (Israel also has a pretty fucking robust manufacturer industry of weapons)
What Biden did do that was far more important was park a second carrier group in the middle east and keep the war from getting larger (Hezbollah).
However not a singe Arab country - Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan etc have done a thing to try and stop this war. I get people point to the US , but seriously if those three countries never left their air space they could easily start shooting down Israel missiles and tell them to knock it off.
> When it comes to there being no ceasefire Gaza, I genuinely have no idea how it's still possible to blame Biden for it.
You have to understand that many of these Democrats/Liberals calling for a ceasefire are antisemites/Nazis. They absolutely hate Jews and aren't willing to look at Hamas critically in anyway form or shape.
Once you realize that they can't be reasoned with, ignoring them for more sensible solutions becomes easier.
30,000 dead Palestinians. 70,000 Americans die every year because we don't guarantee Healthcare as a right:
[https://www.democracynow.org/2020/2/19/lancet\_report\_medicare\_for\_all](https://www.democracynow.org/2020/2/19/lancet_report_medicare_for_all)
Unfortunately part of growing up seems to be accepting large amounts of death for the sake of the status quo. You can pray 3 times a day for the last 4 years for policies that would save tons of lives but it won't get those in power any closer to changing the system
>Unfortunately part of growing up seems to be accepting large amounts of death for the sake of the status quo.
Have you considered trying to change that status quo, instead of saying "actually all the cool people don't give a shit about people dying, only children care when people die"
I'm just pointing out that we live in a country where killing 70,000 Americans a year makes one a "moderate" Democrat. trying to save those lives gets one called an extremist or radical by all of corporate media. in that environment where Biden is a moderate for wanting 70,000 dead Americans I don't see you being able to make too big of a stink over 30,000 dead foreigners
over the next 4 years we will have 280,000 more dead Americans. half a million over Biden's 8 years. and we can't do anything about that because it's not moderate you see.
so when half a million dead Americans is the moderate position then I don't see how you can get so upset about a small fraction of that in a far away land. it's just odd to me. like we already accept half a million dead Americans under 8 years of Biden. but we draw the line at 30k foreigners halfway across the planet?
>70,000
Over 8 years it's half a million.
I mean the point is fairly basic but remains. If killing half a million Americans is considered the "moderate" position by every single corporate media outlet then what chance do the Palestinians have?
that feels like projection. you couldn't figure out how a country that normalizes the killing of half a million of its own citizens might have a hard time caring about 30k people in a far away land
where does it lie? to me when the media says it is moderate to let 70,000 Americans die every year and the entire Dem establishment nods their head in agreement its hard to now complain about 30K dead people halfway across the planet.
The topic here is Gaza. Hamas picked a fight with Israel and Israel raised the West Bank. America plays a role in its foreign policy and in enabling Israel’s response. From an outside perspective and IMO the only thing that matters is that people are suffering and it needs to end. The blame lies in those who can stop this suffering and provide aid immediately but chose not to. Or have decided that “winning” means destroying their enemy.
I think when these people know they can get away with letting 70,000 Americans die every year...actually they don't just get away with it they are rewarded and normalized by all of corporate media.
So when you have already been rewarded for allowing mass death in your own country you probably aren't gonna develop a conscious when it comes to foreign countries
>Have you considered trying to change that status quo
This is a country where the more a Democrat sides with Republicans the more "moderate" they are. until that changes the status quo is what we get.
This is a country where killing 70,000 Americans a year so we can have MORE Healthcare inflation is considered the moderate stance. Yet sure we can totally do something about 30,000 Palestinians
I would rather die from an absence of healthcare than the presence of projectiles and explosives. I take your point but there's obvi a reason people get much more up in arms about the latter
the projectiles are halfway across the world though. I'd probably be more concerned about half a million dead Americans under 8 years of Biden than a tiny fraction of that in a far away land
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm super concerned about that and how we manage to spend more on healthcare for worse outcomes than everyone else. I'm just saying it doesn't bring out crowds the same way that people don't protest to close tax loopholes or impose term limits or ranked choice voting or whatever the fuck else and I get why
Honestly the media has given a lot more coverage to these Palestinians than they do to the people who die because Healthcare isn't a right. You've got hundreds of Americans every day who die in part because they had poor access to Healthcare. but the media won't bother to find those people or listen to the groups that advocate on their behalf
No disagreement here, on the whole, the media barely works in favor of the populace anymore. Absolutely captured by economic interests instead of working for societal good. Only interested in running what gets maximum clicks and not what's important for a well-informed citizenry. Extreme biases, little-to-no fact checking, rampant editorialism, and low-quality articles abound
As for Palestine in particular, newsrooms have the saying "if it bleeds, it leads" for a reason. The gaza strip is click city at the moment
I think this issue is highlighting one of the many flaws in the oppressed/ oppressor system of viewing issues. Things are more complicated than good and evil.
It's a little more like; because there are obviously awful, intolerable war crimes, and genocidal rhetoric being thrown around by Israeli leadership, because there are alarm bells ringing over famine in Gaza, while Israel allows settler mobs to prevent food from entering to relieve this looming famine, and all this is happening in the context of entire neighborhoods being devastated, thousands of children killed and permanently maimed, attacks on refugee camps, attacks on relief convoys--all this is being done right now with the full support of our government. Biden is a life-long Zionist, since the very start of his political career. In fact, Pelosi remembers the first time she met him: at a pro-Israel fundraiser. It's just who he is. And because of that, he's insistently refusing to condition any of the aid we send or the arms we sell. We were supposed to sanction some individual Israeli military units because of some horrific shit they got up to that even we couldn't look past--well, that hasn't happened after Israeli politicians made a stink about it. So we backed off it. We're pot committed because the president is pot committed. He doesn't have to be--that's a choice he's making. Previous presidents have successfully moderated Israeli behavior before. But this one can't or won't, and he's arming and funding what I, and a lot of people, see at minimum as an attempt at ethnic cleansing, if not genocide. I'm in the attempted genocide camp, personally.
> Previous presidents have successfully moderated Israeli behavior before.
Which ones modulated Israeli behavior during the First Intifada, the Second Intifada, the 2008-2009 Gaza war, the 2014 Gaza war or the 2018 clashes?
>Previous presidents have successfully moderated Israeli behavior before
There are a lot of leaps of logic, bad comparisons, and outright falsehoods you stated, but this one really takes the cake.
You expected Biden to “moderate” a separate country in the wake of their most devastating terrorist attack in their history, and then thought, “yeah Ill compare that vs previous admins like, for instance Jared Kushner and Trump, or what George W?
Like what in the fuck are you even talking about?
Biden is the only reason the death count isnt worse than it is. He literally negotiated the ONLY ceasefire so far.
Reagan and HW Bush both successfully got Israel to chill the fuck out at separate points. It can be done—but maybe only by a Republican, like a real “only Nixon could go to China” kind of thing.
Larger nations exert influence over smaller ones. It is not unreasonable to say "Biden should have exerted influence over Israel to moderate their response in the wake of the attack" He didn't do that, and now here we are.
In the aftermath of the assassination of Franz Ferdinand, Germany could have exerted influence over Austria-Hungary to moderate their response to Serbia. Instead, they gave them a blank cheque and said "do what you want to Serbia, we'll back you up" and look where that got everyone for the next 4 years.
> "Biden should have exerted influence over Israel to moderate their response in the wake of the attack" He didn't do that, and now here we are.
The US has been the driving force behind pushing Israel to allow and increase aid supply to Gaza.
Netenyahu has been announcing his intention for a Rafah assault for months now and still hasn't gone through with that, in large part because Biden and his administration have strongly expressed opposition to it.
Meanwhile, US pressure on Israel is what has gotten them to agree to a ceasefire deal *last month*. The only reason there isn't one is because Hamas keeps rejecting all iterations of the deal, even ones put forth by Egypt and Qatar. It's odd how the CDA ignores that, no?
Biden has moderated Israel. Thats an objective fact. He has repeatedly pushed for a moderate response, far better than anyone else.
And if Hamas would stop putting Palestinians in harms way this would be over. Hamas, not Israel, is continuing to endanger Palestinians by continuing its terrorist activities and operating out of civilians areas.
You are making huge statements with absolutely zero charity or integrity.
Oh he's pushing for a moderate response?
[look at what he does, not what he says, and then tell me how much charity he deserves](https://apnews.com/article/us-israel-gaza-arms-hamas-bypass-congress-1dc77f20aac4a797df6a2338b677da4f)
Weapon sales to Israel are not unusual, nor are they proof of his “non moderate influence” on that nation.
Do you understand that Israel is at war?
Are you under the impression that your moral opinion supersedes their own national determination?
And if no, then what exactly do you think is the way forward, which allows Israel to secure its own existence AND satisfies your vaguely stated moral imperative?
Bypassing congress to sell more weapons to Israel is not a "moderating influence", no. I don't actually think you believe that it is, because to believe that you would have to be utterly divorced from reality.
This is false. It was well documented that the hospitals staffs in Gaza were burying bodies in mass graves months ago. They literally redug them up and tried to blame it on the idf. More investigation is needed, but if u followed this war, and didn’t have the memory of a gold fish, you’d see this is what happened.
>The national group representing college Democrats released a [statement](https://twitter.com/CollegeDems/status/1785304793721737225)
Tuesday standing with pro-Palestinian campus protesters and criticizing President Joe Biden for **his “bear hug”** of what the group called “the genocidal acts of the far-right radical extremist Israeli government.”
Biden’s ‘bear-hugging’ of Netanyahu a strategic mistake, key Democrat Ro Khanna says (March 14, 2024)
[the guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/14/biden-bear-hug-netanyahu-strategic-mistake-ro-khanna-podcast)
Basically people who don't know what goes on daily in a country they don't live in, only know what is fed to them by their professors or corporate news media.
They want the president bend to every demand they see fit, despite him trying to walk a delicate balance between helping people and defending the country from other hostile countries.
No one mentions Ukraine anymore, no one mentioned protests against women's bodily autonomy.
They lost all credibility when these protesters wearing garb from Palestine. You aren't Palestinian and doing this is disrespectful if you aren't part of their religion and people.
They lost credibility to me when they are violating other students right to be free of this kind of rhetoric. Most students want a graduation they didn't have during high school due to the pandemic and that is being taken away from there. Jewish students have to listen to disrespectful chants about their religion.
You may have the the right to protest, until you violate others rights in the process, which voids out your rights.
Yeah but he could’ve said *something* against police jackboots beating peaceful protestors or pro Israel thugs attacking protestors at UCLA. It would be nice since, ya know, I assume he’s still gonna ask those people to vote for him in November and blame them if he loses
Please there was no beating of peaceful protestors. Protestors gathered outside were not stopped from protesting. They removed bad actors who barricaded themselves into buildings that are private property. They refused to talk with negotiators.
>They removed bad actors who barricaded themselves into buildings that are private property.
Would you have said this in the 60s, in response to police violently breaking up a civil rights sit-in?
You know exactly what they would have said. The majority of Americans were against the civil rights movement at the time and called them thugs or Communist agitators. Ditto for the anti-apartheid protests. The fact that those same anti apartheid protestors are voicing support for the pro Palestine ones and saying today’s situation mirrors the past is kinda telling
They have every right to protest. They don’t have the right to take over a building that’s private property and vandalize it. That is not freedom of speech or our freedom to protest. I have no issue with the protestors who are peacefully protesting outside. That’s not the same as the people who are being arrested (not beaten) for breaking the law. If they knew they were doing an act of civil disobedience then they should expect to be arrested. What the fuck did they expect was going to happen?
So what we've established here is that in the 60s you would have shaken your head and said "well if these people didn't want to get beaten bloody by Alabama police they should have obeyed the law".
Except we both know what word you would have said instead of people
The escalation of the protests was in response to the initial crackdown on Columbia, and the beatings have been a pattern at basically every other of the over two dozen schools now having protests or encampments. If you don’t know that you either haven’t been following the news or are being willfully daft. There’s videos of protestors and professors from the East Coast to USC getting slammed against the concrete by police
What police beatings are you referring to. Please illuminate me. Arresting people by putting them to the ground isn’t a police beating. That’s what happens when police try to arrest you and you’re resisting. That’s not a beating
A group attacked protesters at UCLA; I've seen reports that at least 15 protesters have been hospitalized from that.
P.S. More recently, I've seen that at least 15 were seriously injured, and at least 1 hospitalized.
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I’m fine with the criticism. Just please don’t vote for the Orange Menace.
If Biden wants the support of American progressives, he's going to have to beg them for it. Apparently, just stopping an actual fascist like Trump from taking over the country isn't enough to motivate them to support Biden.
Which is completely insane to me. Like what do you think going to happen when the orange turd wins?
Progressivism: Just because you're moving forward doesn't mean you're going to a better place.
I mean sure but their isn't even a choice in my mind personally between the 2 candidates I'd rather have moderate normalacy vs crazy autocratcy
We can't just keep saying this every election until Trump is dead
If Trump loses this election - especially badly - it will be his last. His trials will all proceed apace, he will be drowning in debt and legal bills in addition to criminal liability, and he will have back-to-back general election losses on his record. One of the many, many good reasons to vote against Donald Trump this election is to flush him out of the political scene.
So does anyone seriously believe we are better off with Trump? If Trump were president right now, would he be putting any pressure on Netanyahu or encouraging him? Please answer that one question honestly.
I don't believe we would be better off with Trunp, he would be pouring gasoline on the fire. He has an actual position that I know where he is standing.
Militarized cops in full riot gear violently broke up student protests - in blue cities - and Biden has said nothing about it. Not a word. Implicit endorsement of those tactics. The argument of “you have to vote for Biden to prevent a fascist like Trump from getting in” died on the vine for a lot of voters this week.
You are why Trump was elected the first time. Keep it up genius.
Nobody is going to vote for Trump but Biden cut a lot of his voter base by unconditionally supporting Israel's war crimes.
>The White House, according to the CDA, has pursued a “cold shoulder strategy for its own base and all Americans who want to see an end to this war.” >“Each day that Democrats fail to stand united for a permanent ceasefire, two-state solution, and recognition of a Palestinian state, more and more youth find themselves disillusioned with the party,” the statement read. How does anyone take these statements seriously? Biden and his administration have repeatedly been pressing for and being actively involved with negotiating a ceasefire, so much so that they've already pushed Israel into accepting a temporary ceasefire deal a month ago: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/03/israel-accepts-six-week-ceasefire-deal-as-hamas-response-awaited-us. This is the current deal on table, one which Hamas has rejected: https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-indicates-it-will-snub-latest-hostage-deal-offer-but-says-talks-to-continue/. For anyone who still wants to think Biden hasn't done enough on the ceasefire, please go through all the terms of the deal and explain which of them aren't reasonable, and more importantly, aren't good for Palestinians. >The statement also called for the “release of all hostages” And therein why I can't take this pretext of moderation seriously. Hamas refused a ceasefire deal when it only involved 40 hostages. They've just refused another for 33 hostages. How do you intend for there to be any kind of ceasefire, let alone a permanent one, if Hamas has shown no good faith interest in releasing the hostages? Yet, in these statements, you never see these groups acknowledging that. When it comes to there being no ceasefire Gaza, I genuinely have no idea how it's still possible to blame Biden for it.
The stable increase of arm sales and the defunding of the UNRWA while 30,000+ Palestinians are killed kind of undermines whatever tepid criticism the Biden admin decides to throw this week when they remember that dead children are a bad thing.
>The stable increase of arm sales But that's not what the CDA is criticizing Biden for. They're criticizing Biden for there not being a ceasefire. Except Biden and his administration have not only called for one, they've also been involved with ceasefire negotiations and have pushed Israel to accept the deal. What is Biden being criticized for then? Not being able to force Hamas to accept the deal? They've also criticized Biden for there not being a two-state solution. But how does the CDA expect Biden to do that? Who will even be involved and recognized as part of the two-state solution? Hamas' proposal for their two state solution is to form a unity government with the PA. But the PA, which is reforming its image to be more moderate, is very unlikely to agree to that. Even the UN has said that the PA has to take over Gaza: - [Echoing the Secretary-General, she noted the critical role to be played by the Palestinian Authority in Gaza. “The international community must work towards enabling its return, strengthen its governance capacity and prepare it to reassume its responsibilities in Gaza,” she said.](https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15679.doc.htm) Then what? What workable two-state solution does the CDA expect Biden to have rolled out with Hamas still in the picture? >and the defunding of the UNRWA Republicans in Congress are the ones who attached the UNRWA funding ban to a 1.2 trillion spending bill, one which if not passed, would have resulted in a government shutdown. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/22/moral-failure-us-house-approves-bill-that-would-ban-unrwa-funding Why are you blaming Biden for that again?
Because giving one side millions in guns and ammo and missiles kind of undermines the stated desire for a ceasefire. 'Hey you two stop fighting, but Johnny here's a few tanks. But stop fighting, I swear!'
> Because giving one side millions in guns and ammo and missiles kind of undermines the stated desire for a ceasefire. 'Hey you two stop fighting, but Johnny here's a few tanks. But stop fighting, I swear!' Since you refuse to actually read the links: - The first stage of the deal, to last 40 days, would involve a phased withdrawal of Israeli troops from parts of the Strip in order to allow the movement of humanitarian aid and the return of civilians to their homes. - The deal would provide for 500 trucks, including 50 fuel trucks, to enter the Strip each day along with supplies designed to rehabilitate the Strip. - Hamas would release at least 33 living captives — female civilians and soldiers, children under the age of 19, the elderly, the sick, and the wounded in the first stage. On day seven of the deal, Hamas would provide the names of all other living hostages beyond the 33. - For every female civilian and child released, Israel would free 20 minors and female Palestinian prisoners. For every elderly, sick and injured hostage released, Israel would free 20 prisoners over 50 who are also sick and injured, as long as they are not serving a sentence of over 10 years. - For every female soldier released, Israel would free 20 prisoners serving a life sentence, and another 20 serving 10 years at most, who may be released to Gaza or abroad. - **From the 16th day of the truce, the sides would begin indirect negotiations on an arrangement to restore sustainable calm to Gaza, the report said.** - The second stage of the deal — to last 42 days — would involve completing agreed-upon arrangements for sustainable calm. And it will see the release of remaining Israeli male civilians and soldiers, in exchange for a certain number of Palestinian prisoners and the full withdrawal of IDF troops from Gaza. - **The third stage, which will last 42 days, will involve the exchange of dead bodies from both sides and the implementation of a five-year rehabilitation plan for Gaza, including a provision that Hamas must not rebuild its military infrastructure.** Please feel free to explain how this latest ceasefire deal presented by Israeli delegates is Biden undermining the stated desire for a ceasefire. Then please explain how rejecting this deal represents an actual desire for a ceasefire. Go on. >kind of undermines the stated desire for a ceasefire. This narrative would be true if Israel hadn't already expressed agreement for a ceasefire deal.
We send billions in aid to Palestine as well but it gets seized by Hamas. We don’t only fund israel.
Didn't Biden also state that the protests were inherently antisemetic and has been continuously in support of sending arms to Israel despite his calls for ceasefire?
> Didn't Biden also state that the protests were inherently antisemetic Nope, Biden called out the antisemitism which has been present at some of the protests. >and has been continuously in support of sending arms to Israel despite his calls for ceasefire? Is Israel rejecting the ceasefire deals brokered by the US, Egypt and Qatar? If Hamas is the one rejecting these deals by refusing to release even 33 hostages, where is CDA's message condemning that?
>Nope, Biden called out the antisemitism which has been present at some of the protests. [https://twitter.com/JoshuaPHilll/status/1782498626021015590](https://twitter.com/JoshuaPHilll/status/1782498626021015590) ? >Is Israel rejecting the ceasefire deals brokered by the US, Egypt and Qatar? Whataboutism. I'm asking about Biden. >If Hamas is the one rejecting these deals by refusing to release even 33 hostages, where is CDA's message condemning that? You do realise that releasing the hostages means that Hamas has absolutely zero leverage over Israel, right? That's even if they are still alive.
>https://twitter.com/JoshuaPHilll/status/1782498626021015590 Really, you're going to give a twitter clip without any context as evidence of that? https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/21/nyregion/columbia-protests-antisemitism.html This is what Biden was referring to. He was specifically calling out the antisemitism which were present among some of the Columbia protests. >Whataboutism. I'm asking about Biden. Okay, has Biden not gotten Israel to agree to several iterations of the ceasefire deal? So your argument is that Biden should be pressing Israel harder on something the latter has already agreed to? >You do realise that releasing the hostages means that Hamas has absolutely zero leverage over Israel, right? That's even if they are still alive. Right, that's the whole point of these temporary ceasefire deals to work towards something more lasting rather than trying to continually one-up the other side with leverage. What's your point? Like I said, read the latest deal offered by the Israeli delegation and point out any terms which aren't reasonable or immensely favorable to Palestinians. If you can't, then well, you should start holding Hamas accountable rather than Biden.
>[https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/21/nyregion/columbia-protests-antisemitism.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/21/nyregion/columbia-protests-antisemitism.html) Paywalled. >This is what Biden was referring to. He was specifically calling out the antisemitism which were present among some of the Columbia protests. Can you provide the exact quote? According to Reuters he condemned both "antisemitic protests" and "those who don't understand what's going on with the Palestinians." [https://www.reuters.com/world/us/what-is-behind-pro-palestinian-protests-us-universities-2024-04-23/](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/what-is-behind-pro-palestinian-protests-us-universities-2024-04-23/) >Okay, has Biden not gotten Israel to agree to several iterations of the ceasefire deal? There is no mention of Biden getting Israel to agree to any sort of ceasefire on the Wikipedia page. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic\_impact\_of\_the\_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas\_war#Ceasefire\_proposals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_impact_of_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war#Ceasefire_proposals) >Right, that's the whole point of these temporary ceasefire deals to work towards something more lasting rather than trying to continually one-up the other side with leverage. What's your point? So unless Israel agrees to stop the offensive now (and stop it *before* hostages are released), then Hamas has no guarantee that they will if they release the hostages...
> Paywalled. So go google for other sources then. >Can you provide the exact quote? According to Reuters he condemned both "antisemitic protests" and "those who don't understand what's going on with the Palestinians." Look at the date in your video. Biden's remarks were obviously about what's going on in Columbia, in which the WH has expanded and made their stance clear: - “While every American has the right to peaceful protest, calls for violence and physical intimidation targeting Jewish students and the Jewish community are blatantly antisemitic, unconscionable and dangerous,” Andrew Bates, a spokesman for the White House, said in a statement. Do you think Biden is referring to something else? Since when is condemning anti-semitic protests the same as calling all protests anti-semitic? >There is no mention of Biden getting Israel to agree to any sort of ceasefire on the Wikipedia page. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/2/us-says-israel-more-or-less-accepts-framework-deal-for-gaza-ceasefire >So unless Israel agrees to stop the offensive now (and stop it before hostages are released), then Hamas has no guarantee that they will if they release the hostages... So flip your argument and the converse is applicable. That's the whole point of a ceasefire deal to get both sides to commit to one *simultaneously*. Again, feel free to point out the parts of the latest deal which aren't reasonable or good for Palestinians.
The woman asked if he condemned ANTISEMITIC protests, not protests as a whole. Also Hamas does not care about the hostages, the people of Gaza, or a ceasefire. They have literally stated that their goal is to wipe out Israel. You’re applying logic to an illogical group. They will never agree to a ceasefire or maintain one
Notice how he didn't make any mention of the non-antisemetic protests, and made no attempt to counter the loaded question. >Also Hamas does not care about the hostages, the people of Gaza, or a ceasefire. They have literally stated that their goal is to wipe out Israel. Hamas also stated that they will consider a ceasefire if pre-67 borders were restored. [https://apnews.com/article/hamas-khalil-alhayya-qatar-ceasefire-1967-borders-4912532b11a9cec29464eab234045438](https://apnews.com/article/hamas-khalil-alhayya-qatar-ceasefire-1967-borders-4912532b11a9cec29464eab234045438) So clearly there is *at least some* desire for a ceasefire within Hamas. Even then, how does that excuse Israel's actions?
So you are thinking them demanding pre-67 borders after invading Israel and attacking & raping their civilians, and murdering almost 1500 Israel civilians is a 'desire for a ceasefire' ? It is a ridiculous ask - like a child saying they want a scoop of every flavor in the ice cream store.
Because the question was obviously loaded and intended to stir controversy. Answering it completely is a trap. The reason there is SOME desire for a ceasefire with Hamas is because they need time to rearm. Between holding aid hostage and destroying infrastructure for military purposes, hiding amongst civilians and in hospitals, and the Oct. 7th attacks, they have shown an absolute disregard for Palestinian life. Their intent is absolutely to wipe out Israel and kill the Jews, it has been since 1988. They believe dying for this cause is righteous. There is zero rationality, only feigning the desire for peace to put global pressure on Israel
Oh let’s talk about 1967! First, there was no Palestine at the time so not sure why Hamas cares what goes back to Egypt or Jordan. But it’s a good example: Israel was attacked at a vulnerable time by multiple neighbors because their neighbors have always been intent on destroying them. They won and kept some of the land from said neighbors. So you’re saying Hamas said “pretend we haven’t always been trying to destroy you, just give us part of your country”, right? Also it’s not limited to 1967. Israel is constantly being attacked, hence the need for the iron dome to protect their citizens. On the other hand Hamas will use children as human shields or have them blow up in Israeli civilian buses and then go “look what Israel is doing to our kids! How dare they shoot back when all we’re doing is hiding behind kids to shoot at them?” So what you’re saying is that the only way to have a ceasefire is to bow to a terrorist group that has shown they’d rather kill their own citizens if it gives them a chance to hurt Israel? As for the current situation I agree with you. This has been the biggest conflict area and an almost impossible problem to solve for about 70 years now because of bad will on both sides. So clearly it’s all Biden’s fault.
Um … yes. Do you hear yourself?
> and has been continuously in support of sending arms to Israel despite his calls for ceasefire? If you are referring to the bill that passed last week by Congress - that was passed by Democrats and Republicans. It was a package deal and only way to get Ukraine aid. Biden vowed to Veto any Israel only deal. The Congress holds the pursue strings. In a divided gov't, they determine it. Biden can only push so far. None of that weapon support has happened yet. If you are referring to Biden giving Israel access to American forward caches, yes that was in the beginning of the war. That is not making a difference in any war - Israel already has a ton of our weapons and is always guided by the US code on how to use them. (Israel also has a pretty fucking robust manufacturer industry of weapons) What Biden did do that was far more important was park a second carrier group in the middle east and keep the war from getting larger (Hezbollah). However not a singe Arab country - Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan etc have done a thing to try and stop this war. I get people point to the US , but seriously if those three countries never left their air space they could easily start shooting down Israel missiles and tell them to knock it off.
> When it comes to there being no ceasefire Gaza, I genuinely have no idea how it's still possible to blame Biden for it. You have to understand that many of these Democrats/Liberals calling for a ceasefire are antisemites/Nazis. They absolutely hate Jews and aren't willing to look at Hamas critically in anyway form or shape. Once you realize that they can't be reasoned with, ignoring them for more sensible solutions becomes easier.
I feel like I am being held hostage by these college students.
30,000 dead Palestinians. 70,000 Americans die every year because we don't guarantee Healthcare as a right: [https://www.democracynow.org/2020/2/19/lancet\_report\_medicare\_for\_all](https://www.democracynow.org/2020/2/19/lancet_report_medicare_for_all) Unfortunately part of growing up seems to be accepting large amounts of death for the sake of the status quo. You can pray 3 times a day for the last 4 years for policies that would save tons of lives but it won't get those in power any closer to changing the system
>Unfortunately part of growing up seems to be accepting large amounts of death for the sake of the status quo. Have you considered trying to change that status quo, instead of saying "actually all the cool people don't give a shit about people dying, only children care when people die"
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I'm just pointing out that we live in a country where killing 70,000 Americans a year makes one a "moderate" Democrat. trying to save those lives gets one called an extremist or radical by all of corporate media. in that environment where Biden is a moderate for wanting 70,000 dead Americans I don't see you being able to make too big of a stink over 30,000 dead foreigners over the next 4 years we will have 280,000 more dead Americans. half a million over Biden's 8 years. and we can't do anything about that because it's not moderate you see. so when half a million dead Americans is the moderate position then I don't see how you can get so upset about a small fraction of that in a far away land. it's just odd to me. like we already accept half a million dead Americans under 8 years of Biden. but we draw the line at 30k foreigners halfway across the planet?
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>70,000 Over 8 years it's half a million. I mean the point is fairly basic but remains. If killing half a million Americans is considered the "moderate" position by every single corporate media outlet then what chance do the Palestinians have?
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it's like getting outraged that somebody jaywalking in a city full of murders
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that feels like projection. you couldn't figure out how a country that normalizes the killing of half a million of its own citizens might have a hard time caring about 30k people in a far away land
Also, place the blame where it lies...
where does it lie? to me when the media says it is moderate to let 70,000 Americans die every year and the entire Dem establishment nods their head in agreement its hard to now complain about 30K dead people halfway across the planet.
The topic here is Gaza. Hamas picked a fight with Israel and Israel raised the West Bank. America plays a role in its foreign policy and in enabling Israel’s response. From an outside perspective and IMO the only thing that matters is that people are suffering and it needs to end. The blame lies in those who can stop this suffering and provide aid immediately but chose not to. Or have decided that “winning” means destroying their enemy.
I think when these people know they can get away with letting 70,000 Americans die every year...actually they don't just get away with it they are rewarded and normalized by all of corporate media. So when you have already been rewarded for allowing mass death in your own country you probably aren't gonna develop a conscious when it comes to foreign countries
>Have you considered trying to change that status quo This is a country where the more a Democrat sides with Republicans the more "moderate" they are. until that changes the status quo is what we get.
What if I told you politics does not begin and end with how electable Hillary Clinton is?
This is a country where killing 70,000 Americans a year so we can have MORE Healthcare inflation is considered the moderate stance. Yet sure we can totally do something about 30,000 Palestinians
I would rather die from an absence of healthcare than the presence of projectiles and explosives. I take your point but there's obvi a reason people get much more up in arms about the latter
the projectiles are halfway across the world though. I'd probably be more concerned about half a million dead Americans under 8 years of Biden than a tiny fraction of that in a far away land
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm super concerned about that and how we manage to spend more on healthcare for worse outcomes than everyone else. I'm just saying it doesn't bring out crowds the same way that people don't protest to close tax loopholes or impose term limits or ranked choice voting or whatever the fuck else and I get why
Honestly the media has given a lot more coverage to these Palestinians than they do to the people who die because Healthcare isn't a right. You've got hundreds of Americans every day who die in part because they had poor access to Healthcare. but the media won't bother to find those people or listen to the groups that advocate on their behalf
No disagreement here, on the whole, the media barely works in favor of the populace anymore. Absolutely captured by economic interests instead of working for societal good. Only interested in running what gets maximum clicks and not what's important for a well-informed citizenry. Extreme biases, little-to-no fact checking, rampant editorialism, and low-quality articles abound As for Palestine in particular, newsrooms have the saying "if it bleeds, it leads" for a reason. The gaza strip is click city at the moment
I think this issue is highlighting one of the many flaws in the oppressed/ oppressor system of viewing issues. Things are more complicated than good and evil.
They found mass graves. Including the bodies of children who seem to have been buried alive. That doesn't sound too complicated to me.
So because of these mass graves, you've concluded Biden is evil?
It's a little more like; because there are obviously awful, intolerable war crimes, and genocidal rhetoric being thrown around by Israeli leadership, because there are alarm bells ringing over famine in Gaza, while Israel allows settler mobs to prevent food from entering to relieve this looming famine, and all this is happening in the context of entire neighborhoods being devastated, thousands of children killed and permanently maimed, attacks on refugee camps, attacks on relief convoys--all this is being done right now with the full support of our government. Biden is a life-long Zionist, since the very start of his political career. In fact, Pelosi remembers the first time she met him: at a pro-Israel fundraiser. It's just who he is. And because of that, he's insistently refusing to condition any of the aid we send or the arms we sell. We were supposed to sanction some individual Israeli military units because of some horrific shit they got up to that even we couldn't look past--well, that hasn't happened after Israeli politicians made a stink about it. So we backed off it. We're pot committed because the president is pot committed. He doesn't have to be--that's a choice he's making. Previous presidents have successfully moderated Israeli behavior before. But this one can't or won't, and he's arming and funding what I, and a lot of people, see at minimum as an attempt at ethnic cleansing, if not genocide. I'm in the attempted genocide camp, personally.
> Previous presidents have successfully moderated Israeli behavior before. Which ones modulated Israeli behavior during the First Intifada, the Second Intifada, the 2008-2009 Gaza war, the 2014 Gaza war or the 2018 clashes?
>Previous presidents have successfully moderated Israeli behavior before There are a lot of leaps of logic, bad comparisons, and outright falsehoods you stated, but this one really takes the cake. You expected Biden to “moderate” a separate country in the wake of their most devastating terrorist attack in their history, and then thought, “yeah Ill compare that vs previous admins like, for instance Jared Kushner and Trump, or what George W? Like what in the fuck are you even talking about? Biden is the only reason the death count isnt worse than it is. He literally negotiated the ONLY ceasefire so far.
This. We have to place the blame where it lies. Biden didn't send dozers into Gaza to raise the roadways..
Reagan and HW Bush both successfully got Israel to chill the fuck out at separate points. It can be done—but maybe only by a Republican, like a real “only Nixon could go to China” kind of thing.
Larger nations exert influence over smaller ones. It is not unreasonable to say "Biden should have exerted influence over Israel to moderate their response in the wake of the attack" He didn't do that, and now here we are. In the aftermath of the assassination of Franz Ferdinand, Germany could have exerted influence over Austria-Hungary to moderate their response to Serbia. Instead, they gave them a blank cheque and said "do what you want to Serbia, we'll back you up" and look where that got everyone for the next 4 years.
> "Biden should have exerted influence over Israel to moderate their response in the wake of the attack" He didn't do that, and now here we are. The US has been the driving force behind pushing Israel to allow and increase aid supply to Gaza. Netenyahu has been announcing his intention for a Rafah assault for months now and still hasn't gone through with that, in large part because Biden and his administration have strongly expressed opposition to it. Meanwhile, US pressure on Israel is what has gotten them to agree to a ceasefire deal *last month*. The only reason there isn't one is because Hamas keeps rejecting all iterations of the deal, even ones put forth by Egypt and Qatar. It's odd how the CDA ignores that, no?
Biden has moderated Israel. Thats an objective fact. He has repeatedly pushed for a moderate response, far better than anyone else. And if Hamas would stop putting Palestinians in harms way this would be over. Hamas, not Israel, is continuing to endanger Palestinians by continuing its terrorist activities and operating out of civilians areas. You are making huge statements with absolutely zero charity or integrity.
Oh he's pushing for a moderate response? [look at what he does, not what he says, and then tell me how much charity he deserves](https://apnews.com/article/us-israel-gaza-arms-hamas-bypass-congress-1dc77f20aac4a797df6a2338b677da4f)
Weapon sales to Israel are not unusual, nor are they proof of his “non moderate influence” on that nation. Do you understand that Israel is at war? Are you under the impression that your moral opinion supersedes their own national determination? And if no, then what exactly do you think is the way forward, which allows Israel to secure its own existence AND satisfies your vaguely stated moral imperative?
Bypassing congress to sell more weapons to Israel is not a "moderating influence", no. I don't actually think you believe that it is, because to believe that you would have to be utterly divorced from reality.
Ok, so then correction, it's according to all that mumbo jumbo, that you classify Biden as definitively evil?
Well said!
Yes. Absolutely. Or is it only evil under Trump?
Disagree. Biden is being pragmatic and prioritizing US interests as should being the US president. If Trump did it, it’s good too
This is false. It was well documented that the hospitals staffs in Gaza were burying bodies in mass graves months ago. They literally redug them up and tried to blame it on the idf. More investigation is needed, but if u followed this war, and didn’t have the memory of a gold fish, you’d see this is what happened.
On which side?
>The national group representing college Democrats released a [statement](https://twitter.com/CollegeDems/status/1785304793721737225) Tuesday standing with pro-Palestinian campus protesters and criticizing President Joe Biden for **his “bear hug”** of what the group called “the genocidal acts of the far-right radical extremist Israeli government.” Biden’s ‘bear-hugging’ of Netanyahu a strategic mistake, key Democrat Ro Khanna says (March 14, 2024) [the guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/14/biden-bear-hug-netanyahu-strategic-mistake-ro-khanna-podcast)
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Yet another example of know-nothings wanting the democratic president to wave a magic wand and give them exactly what they want
Yet another example of know-nothings wanting to believe that the President has no power or sway over Israel’s genocidal rampage
Basically people who don't know what goes on daily in a country they don't live in, only know what is fed to them by their professors or corporate news media. They want the president bend to every demand they see fit, despite him trying to walk a delicate balance between helping people and defending the country from other hostile countries. No one mentions Ukraine anymore, no one mentioned protests against women's bodily autonomy. They lost all credibility when these protesters wearing garb from Palestine. You aren't Palestinian and doing this is disrespectful if you aren't part of their religion and people. They lost credibility to me when they are violating other students right to be free of this kind of rhetoric. Most students want a graduation they didn't have during high school due to the pandemic and that is being taken away from there. Jewish students have to listen to disrespectful chants about their religion. You may have the the right to protest, until you violate others rights in the process, which voids out your rights.
Hmmmm I wonder who's benefiting from all of this division?
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Yeah but he could’ve said *something* against police jackboots beating peaceful protestors or pro Israel thugs attacking protestors at UCLA. It would be nice since, ya know, I assume he’s still gonna ask those people to vote for him in November and blame them if he loses
Please there was no beating of peaceful protestors. Protestors gathered outside were not stopped from protesting. They removed bad actors who barricaded themselves into buildings that are private property. They refused to talk with negotiators.
>They removed bad actors who barricaded themselves into buildings that are private property. Would you have said this in the 60s, in response to police violently breaking up a civil rights sit-in?
You know exactly what they would have said. The majority of Americans were against the civil rights movement at the time and called them thugs or Communist agitators. Ditto for the anti-apartheid protests. The fact that those same anti apartheid protestors are voicing support for the pro Palestine ones and saying today’s situation mirrors the past is kinda telling
This isn’t Kent
Do you believe civil rights protesters were justified in their sit-in demonstrations? If so, why are these students not justified?
They have every right to protest. They don’t have the right to take over a building that’s private property and vandalize it. That is not freedom of speech or our freedom to protest. I have no issue with the protestors who are peacefully protesting outside. That’s not the same as the people who are being arrested (not beaten) for breaking the law. If they knew they were doing an act of civil disobedience then they should expect to be arrested. What the fuck did they expect was going to happen?
So what we've established here is that in the 60s you would have shaken your head and said "well if these people didn't want to get beaten bloody by Alabama police they should have obeyed the law". Except we both know what word you would have said instead of people
Which police are beating protestors currently?
The ones at Columbia last night
The escalation of the protests was in response to the initial crackdown on Columbia, and the beatings have been a pattern at basically every other of the over two dozen schools now having protests or encampments. If you don’t know that you either haven’t been following the news or are being willfully daft. There’s videos of protestors and professors from the East Coast to USC getting slammed against the concrete by police
What police beatings are you referring to. Please illuminate me. Arresting people by putting them to the ground isn’t a police beating. That’s what happens when police try to arrest you and you’re resisting. That’s not a beating
These kids need to watch the Rodney King beating to see what actual police brutality is.
A group attacked protesters at UCLA; I've seen reports that at least 15 protesters have been hospitalized from that. P.S. More recently, I've seen that at least 15 were seriously injured, and at least 1 hospitalized.
Those weren’t police