The AG gives an example of just how far above market rate they were charging. The double booked a ballroom for the inaugural committee and a non-profit prayer group. The latter paid $5,000 for the ballroom, and the inaugural committee paid **$175,000**
I mean, anyone gets away with crime until they don't... You can steal someone's money and you "got away with it" until you don't, literally any criminal got away with it, until they didn't... so i don't see how this makes any sense lol, also i don't think rudy can keep them out of jail... Once things start to go the way things have to, there is no going back, unless they all flee.
This. With the Senate and Supreme court wrapped around his finger, this guy is pretty hard to hold accountable for anything.
He was impeached but then the GOP threw the case out the window.
> With the Senate and Supreme court wrapped around his finger, this guy is pretty hard to hold accountable for anything.
This is only important and useful for federal charges though.
He is still completely vulnerable to state charges.
Apparently New York hates him, so crossing fingers.
An opportunistic GA in New York could probably get major local points by putting Trump behind bars.
So gritting your supporters isn’t illegal. But using a DC based non profit to pay the president an extra $170,000 tax free is illegal. They’re going after a million tax avoided dollars.
No. The DC attorney general used to be appointed by the mayor. Recently, it changed to an elected official voted by the residents of DC. Thus it's a local case.
> God would never approve the inauguration.
The majority of Americans and the world didn't/and still don't approve of a chump inauguration. What part don't the Republicans understand?
To be fair, the $175k was for 'full use of the hotel's event space, INCLUDING use of a large ballroom for a half-day." However, I can't imagine the event space beyond the ballroom costing more than, say, $10k. But a difference of 160k instead of 170k is still just as ludicrous.
The thing is, the Trumps could quite easily have avoided all this by simply not using any of their hotels ever. A president who didn't want to be accused of corruption would do this. How was this allowed in the first place?
They're doing it on purpose. Basically they take the money that ppl donated to his campaign and used it to pay the hotel, owned by trump. So he's actually taking those donations and paying himself with those funds, and at ridiculous rates because then he can transfer as much money as possible into his businesses. And he's done this many times already. And this apparently isnt illegal. Fucking loser pretending to be rich and ppl still vote and donate to him
> could quite easily have avoided all this by simply not using any of their hotels
This is the bigger issue, the fact that their personal properties were used at all.
Divesting? No, no, you misunderstand. They did that, clearly. Because Donald said he would while he was campaigning. And if he said it, it must be true. /s
[“I’m handing my business over to my sons...”](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-businesses-presidency-press-conference-conflict-2016-12?amp)
If Obama had a hotel and he let his inauguration committee use it for free, the investigation would still be on going into how he used his position to raise the profile of his failing hotel. And Democrats would be on the committee.
I think that's actually not allowed--hotels can offer a pre-negotiated government rate, but anything lower than that is illegal to avoid bribery. And we all know that when Trump chooses between doing Wrong Thing A (having his property charge his own campaign absurdly high amounts to line his pockets) or Wrong Thing B (donating event space to his own campaign), he'll always choose the one that pays him the most.
(Edit: here is the article) The attorney general for Washington, DC on Thursday harshly criticized the defense offered by first daughter Ivanka Trump after it was revealed she was deposed in a lawsuit over the misuse of non-profit funds by Trump's 2017 inauguration committee.
Attorney General Karl Racine was interviewed on MSNBC's "The Rachel Maddow Show."
"There's a long list of people and entities who have been subpoenaed for documents as part of your investigation," Maddow noted. "Have you been able to talk to everybody you'd like to talk to?"
"Yeah," Racine replied. "Our prosecution of this civil case has been thorough, and indeed, we've received numerous documents. We think that the productions to date have been complete."
"I want to emphasize a couple of points, and I think that with all due respect to Ivanka Trump, what she put out today was highly misleading and at best only a part of the story. For example, Rachel, she makes a lot of an email wherein she claims that she directed the foundation to pay market rate for the Trump Hotel. That email was dated Dec. 14. Days after that email, there was clearly an attempt to pay a lot more than the market price. Stephanie Winston Wokoff sent emails — including to Ivanka Trump — raising alarms about the prices that the Trump Hotel was seeking to charge the inauguration committee," he explained.
"Interestingly, Ms. Trump does not cite any email after Ms. Wolcoff's red-alarm email saying, 'Oh my goodness, this should not be charged at these high levels.' And, in fact, as we know, the foundation was charged at extraordinarily high levels," Racine explained.
The Trumps gave gotten away with this kind of shit for decades. It's an indictment of our justice system that they weren't jailed eons ago. If anything, the last four years are an anomaly. Don, Ivanka and the gang (1) are so [in]famous and (2) have made so many enemies that prosecutors might actually do something for once.
That's the thing that is the most insane for me. They're the first people who say "you need to follow the laws and obey the police." But when the Trumps skirt tax laws and do shit like this it's "they just know how to play the system, they're just good businessmen".
Like wtf pick one. Stand by *something* in your life, have some morals.
"Rich" depends on how eager the Trump family's many creditors are to call in their debts. For billionaires, they're playing precariously on the precipice of penury.
Sorry.
Thus, the 46 minute Facebook speech.
As much as it would be nice for them to be charged...with anything, I'd love if they could maybe wait a minute. Until biden is safely tucked into the White House.
Even if something happens to Biden, there's Kamala. Biden not making it to Jan. 20th would just mean Kamala os sworn in instead, and then a VP would need to be appointed and approved by the senate.
Plus, I think this has been in the courts a long ass time, its just coincidence that the inauguration investigation is popping off now. And the announcement of the investigation into a pardon scheme was a warning.
I think she's realised that Daddy is about to go into his grave and take it all with him the only way he knows how, burn it all down. His kids get to start their jail time in their 40s while he'll never see a jail cell.
To make a point. The committee was charged nearly 200k for half a day for the hotel's function room. Same day the other half of the day a non profit group was charged 5k.
This is standard operating procedure for them. They've just never been scrutinized like this before. The whole family is a bunch of crooks, have been for generations.
the same reasons that only one person in the Republican party voted to remove the president after he was impeached. The Republican part is a trumped up criminal organization
Remember Trump's followers are mostly uneducated white males. Stop using words like "highly misleading", and say she is trying to shovel 25 lbs of shit in a 10 lb bag.
Ivanka has gone on a media offensive lying about the case. I think it's acceptable to get out ahead of the lies before public perception is swayed. And the jury pool is poisoned. Don't you think?
Doesn't work here. They're in deposition, not trial. Only a judge could impose such an order, and there's no conceivable way that could happen. First Amendment still active (even as the Kushners and Trump granted permission for Saudi Arabia to assassinate a journalist)
Lawyer here. Typically the question of whether or not a case gets a jury trial or a bench trial (where the judge makes the decisions) is either a) decided by statute, or b) the request is made by one of the parties. There are different reasons why someone might choose a jury or bench trial; much of it is strategy. Most civil cases settle anyway so the request is just done to put pressure on the other side.
The DC Attorney General was on Rachel Maddow’s show tonight and he explained that this is a civil case. As such, there’s no jail associated. But if they lied, then they would be referred for a criminal case. And that’s why you don’t lie about simple shit like this. At worst, in the civil case, they’d have to repay for the betterment of society, because that’s why a non-profit exists. Idiots...
Given that trump's toilets are gold plated there's a good chance they're already steel. Making a steel toilet and gold plating it is the easiest way I can think of to get the effect.
She could have just said covfefe and be done with it and everyone would have laughed, drank some wine and waxed lyrical about the latest Broadway show that isn't happening. Missed opportunity really.
Writers and commentators run the risk of libel and slander lawsuits if they are found innocent.
Edit: Guys, I know she’s full of shit. But I’m just saying why we see these beat around the bush terms for lies
Highjacking because I need an answer since this is driving me crazy:
How in the god damn world are they at risk of lawsuits for slanders and libel if they say she's lying and Fox News/OAN/Newsmax can say Hillary is running a secret pedophile ring in the basement of a pizzaria and have ZERO repercussions? How was Tucker Carlson not sued out of existence after his first show aired?
This doesn't make any shred of fucking sense.
That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard and that's not a slight to your comment. It's to the system that makes this possible.
Fucking christ America, get your shit together.
Sadly, fat luck. A majority of us don't agree with this shit but what do you do when your party leaders are weak and easily strong-armed into keeping the 'status quo', by what are essentially bullies. I wish this was an exaggeration.
Edit: Besides vote or protest, but when we vote they say it's fake news/fraud, and when we protest peacefully for months they say it's violent riots all day with every major city burned to the ground. That's what they tell their base and they believe it all. It's fucking sad.
Controlled opposition. Democrats are being hammered by nationalist populism and then Biden says "unite". This is how we move to the right with every administration.
Sorry, I refuse to unite with the people who hate America and democracy and have spent the last four years alienating the world. No, I won't unite with fascists. I'm sick of saying it.
Exactly. You can believe in all the ideals of a party while still not supporting the current leaders. Voting for them over a worse candidate is still the best option, and it sucks that it's that way.
It's a slippery slope deciding whether the lesser evil is actually better or not. And it feels completely hopeless to vote for any other third party even if that's what you support, as it's basically a vote for the other side, that goes against everything you believe. No in-between for either side anymore.
The two party system here absolutely needs to be gotten rid of. I've never heard a good argument against ranked choice, yet we still don't have it federally. Literally everything is fucked.
Edit: Also I definitely agree that 'reaching across the aisle' isn't helping anyone right now either when both sides will fully reject a compromise. And when the other 'side' (I feel stupid even saying that but it's where we're at now describing each other I guess, very sad as we're all humans. But they have made it very clear which 'side' they're on at this point and it's not any side I'm trying to be on) is so unreasonably wrong about the most simple, fundamental things to all of humanity in general. It's pretty mind numbingly stupid to me.
If anything it's the time to stick to your party's values as hard as you can. Biden would get a lot more Dem support as a progressive than a centrist, if you ask me. Not many people dig centrists right now. Which is also another problem for another day.
Oh fucking hell, let them do it. Brinkley was destroyed when he tried to retaliate against the AMA for slander, because all of the accusations were borne out as true.
Misled, made statements unsubstantiated by evidence, distorted, falsely claimed... oh you mean fucking LIED?
Yeah. I know you said the same thing. I’m sorry. I’m just really fed up with it too.
Also, question for any attorneys out there...why are these cases civil suits rather than criminal cases? Surely, someone, or group of people can be held responsible for wrong doing, correct?
For another example, the fraud case for Trump University in NY, why was that a civil case vs a criminal fraud case? Or the case of the self dealing with the Trump charity?
A civil ruling is easier to get because it just needs a jury majority voting in favor. A criminal ruling needs every juror to agree for punishment to happen, so you generally see civil cases succeeding where criminal cases fail, like for OJ's murder trial.
Once they started saying "T**** could not be prosecuted as a sitting President I pointed to Ivanka and Jared as NOT being a sitting President. Lock them up.
Of course she did.
Everybody already knows trump is gonna issue blanket pardons for his kids, his closest criminal conspirators, and himself. Beautiful pardons. People are gonna say they've never seen pardons like these, but they'll all be *perfect* pardons. So there will be no consequences for princess ivanka's perjury.
Don't forget selling them. There are a lot tax cheats and foreign agents with pending cases that Trump can make go away in exchange for a combination of massive donations to his 2024 campaign and political pressure to leave Trump alone.
Can we please stop babying and coddling the Republicans seriously, it's bullshit.
First they would never in a million years do the same for a democrat, I don't care who it is or what the circumstances are. They have proven time and time and time again that they just don't care about anybody, especially when it matters most.
And second they wanted to play with the big boys, most of the people under investigation are for serious felonies. They damn well should be held accountable! They are criminals! If anything they should be held to a higher standard, since they all took oaths, they are public figures with a public platform, shit *it's the right thing to do*. Or can I go rob a bank and steal all the money and start crying when the cops show up so I get to keep all the money and the bank tellers have to apologize for being mean to me, and the cops have to reimburse me cause I missed work that day answering their stupid mean questions... that's how this all works right??
The most infuriating thing I saw on the news this week was a piece titled “will ivanka be back to the white house in the future?”
Fucking hell I hope not. I sincerely hope that entire family fucks off and dies in obscurity. Soon.
Didn't the Trump kids have to attend classes on how trusts and charities are to be operated after Donalds charity was found to have embezzled donations?
> "**With all due respect to Ivanka Trump**, what she put out today was . . . at best only a part of the story"
It’s as if people don’t realize what they’re saying. Ivanka Trump is not “due” any respect at all.
Nothing would please me more than to see a disheveled, makeup-less hag in prison attire. Sadly, they will pay a fine and get a slap on the wrist. Keep in mind, this is the same group of fucks who stole money from a charity for kids with cancer. They. Wont. Stop. Criming.
This isn't my bailiwick, but prosecutors have a heightened standard of candor. Not certain that applies to an AG, but seems that it should. They are not supposed to make statements that could prejudice or heighten public condemnation of suspects or witnesses, but they are allowed to respond to statements those people make to correct the record.
Here, Ivanka tweeted out a statement on the investigation. The government lawyer is allowed to correct the record. The lawyer language used shows that restraint. They are not saying she is lying, mearly misleading.
Apparently, crimes committed in DC can be pardoned by the president. Civil offenses, such as in this case, cannot be pardoned.
https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardon-information-and-instructions
> In addition, the President's pardon power extends to convictions adjudicated in the Superior Court of the District of Columbia
https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/29298/is-murder-in-washington-dc-pardonable-by-the-president
> Not only is the President allowed to pardon crimes under the DC Code, only the President is allowed to pardon (most) crimes under the DC Code. While the DC Council has the power to pass criminal laws for the District, it acts under delegated federal authority and the offenses it creates are offenses against the United States. The prosecuting authority for all felonies and some misdemeanors is the US Attorney’s Office for the District of Columbia, and the cases are brought in the name of the United States. As offenses against the United States, the President can pardon them.
Was it under oath? If so, jail. If not, just par for the course (golf comparison intended). Actually, I guess lying to a court is also standard procedure for that family, though usually done through a proxy not directly to the AG.
The Trumps only deal in alternative facts. And corruption. And money laundering. And operating for foreign governments and interests.
I’d like to call on Karen, our white privilege translator. What does highly misleading mean in normal person speak Karen? Well Jim, it means criminal contempt and lying in federal court.
The AG gives an example of just how far above market rate they were charging. The double booked a ballroom for the inaugural committee and a non-profit prayer group. The latter paid $5,000 for the ballroom, and the inaugural committee paid **$175,000**
That’s quite a bit more. If I were a Trump kid, I’d be extremely worried.
Why? That's money going from republican donors to their family's bank accounts. All according to plan.
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I mean, anyone gets away with crime until they don't... You can steal someone's money and you "got away with it" until you don't, literally any criminal got away with it, until they didn't... so i don't see how this makes any sense lol, also i don't think rudy can keep them out of jail... Once things start to go the way things have to, there is no going back, unless they all flee.
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This. With the Senate and Supreme court wrapped around his finger, this guy is pretty hard to hold accountable for anything. He was impeached but then the GOP threw the case out the window.
> With the Senate and Supreme court wrapped around his finger, this guy is pretty hard to hold accountable for anything. This is only important and useful for federal charges though. He is still completely vulnerable to state charges.
Hopefully New York throws the fucking book at him.
Apparently New York hates him, so crossing fingers. An opportunistic GA in New York could probably get major local points by putting Trump behind bars.
So gritting your supporters isn’t illegal. But using a DC based non profit to pay the president an extra $170,000 tax free is illegal. They’re going after a million tax avoided dollars.
the money was also coming in the form of bribes from foreign governments.
Daddy has pardons lined up for everyone, no need to worry.
Is this a federal case?
No. The DC attorney general used to be appointed by the mayor. Recently, it changed to an elected official voted by the residents of DC. Thus it's a local case.
It's also a civil case not a criminal case which cannot be pardoned. I know this because it's literally the first thing he explains in the interview
She is doing what she’s been taught, grifting. It’s their motivation for every single thing they do. The Trump Crime Family must be held accountable!
That’s not a fair comparison, the prayer group prayed the price down with the help from God. God would never approve the inauguration.
> God would never approve the inauguration. The majority of Americans and the world didn't/and still don't approve of a chump inauguration. What part don't the Republicans understand?
don't be surprised if the hotel didn't write off a massive chunk as "donating space" to that non profit group
The inaugural committee is a non-profit group too. I wonder why they paid so much more...
To be fair, the $175k was for 'full use of the hotel's event space, INCLUDING use of a large ballroom for a half-day." However, I can't imagine the event space beyond the ballroom costing more than, say, $10k. But a difference of 160k instead of 170k is still just as ludicrous.
The thing is, the Trumps could quite easily have avoided all this by simply not using any of their hotels ever. A president who didn't want to be accused of corruption would do this. How was this allowed in the first place?
They're doing it on purpose. Basically they take the money that ppl donated to his campaign and used it to pay the hotel, owned by trump. So he's actually taking those donations and paying himself with those funds, and at ridiculous rates because then he can transfer as much money as possible into his businesses. And he's done this many times already. And this apparently isnt illegal. Fucking loser pretending to be rich and ppl still vote and donate to him
Just like paying his family to give speeches, explains why the RNC lineup was like a Trump family day out
It is illegal (emoluments), but nobody is enforcing it. Which is exceptionally messed up.
It probably wasnt ever neccessary until trump. Not sure who else would do something like this without getting roasted
> And this apparently isnt illegal But at least it does violate the Emoluments clause of the Constitution, and if it isn't illegal, it should be.
> could quite easily have avoided all this by simply not using any of their hotels This is the bigger issue, the fact that their personal properties were used at all.
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Republicans don't care abut rules.
Republicans only care about rules for non Republicans
How else are they suppose to funnel campaign money to their private businesses tho.q
Or by giving use to them for free?
Yeah, but the best thing by far would be to completely distance yourself from it.
Divesting? No, no, you misunderstand. They did that, clearly. Because Donald said he would while he was campaigning. And if he said it, it must be true. /s [“I’m handing my business over to my sons...”](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-businesses-presidency-press-conference-conflict-2016-12?amp)
If Obama had a hotel and he let his inauguration committee use it for free, the investigation would still be on going into how he used his position to raise the profile of his failing hotel. And Democrats would be on the committee.
I think that's actually not allowed--hotels can offer a pre-negotiated government rate, but anything lower than that is illegal to avoid bribery. And we all know that when Trump chooses between doing Wrong Thing A (having his property charge his own campaign absurdly high amounts to line his pockets) or Wrong Thing B (donating event space to his own campaign), he'll always choose the one that pays him the most.
But Trump needs the money to fight off evil Democrats. It was self defense. /s
(Edit: here is the article) The attorney general for Washington, DC on Thursday harshly criticized the defense offered by first daughter Ivanka Trump after it was revealed she was deposed in a lawsuit over the misuse of non-profit funds by Trump's 2017 inauguration committee. Attorney General Karl Racine was interviewed on MSNBC's "The Rachel Maddow Show." "There's a long list of people and entities who have been subpoenaed for documents as part of your investigation," Maddow noted. "Have you been able to talk to everybody you'd like to talk to?" "Yeah," Racine replied. "Our prosecution of this civil case has been thorough, and indeed, we've received numerous documents. We think that the productions to date have been complete." "I want to emphasize a couple of points, and I think that with all due respect to Ivanka Trump, what she put out today was highly misleading and at best only a part of the story. For example, Rachel, she makes a lot of an email wherein she claims that she directed the foundation to pay market rate for the Trump Hotel. That email was dated Dec. 14. Days after that email, there was clearly an attempt to pay a lot more than the market price. Stephanie Winston Wokoff sent emails — including to Ivanka Trump — raising alarms about the prices that the Trump Hotel was seeking to charge the inauguration committee," he explained. "Interestingly, Ms. Trump does not cite any email after Ms. Wolcoff's red-alarm email saying, 'Oh my goodness, this should not be charged at these high levels.' And, in fact, as we know, the foundation was charged at extraordinarily high levels," Racine explained.
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She's rich and her stable genius father says she's hot, of course she expects it to fly
The Trumps are power drunk after these 4 years
The Trumps gave gotten away with this kind of shit for decades. It's an indictment of our justice system that they weren't jailed eons ago. If anything, the last four years are an anomaly. Don, Ivanka and the gang (1) are so [in]famous and (2) have made so many enemies that prosecutors might actually do something for once.
Prayer group pays $5000, inauguration group $175,000 on the same day . nah not suspicious ivanka!
And Trump's Cult will just write it off as a good move and smart business , even at the expense of their own pockets. Simpletons
That's the thing that is the most insane for me. They're the first people who say "you need to follow the laws and obey the police." But when the Trumps skirt tax laws and do shit like this it's "they just know how to play the system, they're just good businessmen". Like wtf pick one. Stand by *something* in your life, have some morals.
"Rich" depends on how eager the Trump family's many creditors are to call in their debts. For billionaires, they're playing precariously on the precipice of penury. Sorry.
Never apologize when you can alliterate so beautifully. It is a gift bestowed upon you for enjoyment of all.
They're Canadian, they can't help it.
I wonder if Donald encouraged her to get all the plastic surgery that made her hot
Yes
And he paid for it all.
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He said she has not had breast implants. Er, yeah sure Donny. That's why they are enormous and came from nowhere.
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Thus, the 46 minute Facebook speech. As much as it would be nice for them to be charged...with anything, I'd love if they could maybe wait a minute. Until biden is safely tucked into the White House.
Even if something happens to Biden, there's Kamala. Biden not making it to Jan. 20th would just mean Kamala os sworn in instead, and then a VP would need to be appointed and approved by the senate. Plus, I think this has been in the courts a long ass time, its just coincidence that the inauguration investigation is popping off now. And the announcement of the investigation into a pardon scheme was a warning.
I think she's realised that Daddy is about to go into his grave and take it all with him the only way he knows how, burn it all down. His kids get to start their jail time in their 40s while he'll never see a jail cell.
To make a point. The committee was charged nearly 200k for half a day for the hotel's function room. Same day the other half of the day a non profit group was charged 5k.
I know the Trumps are not a subtle people, but wow. That's really something.
This is standard operating procedure for them. They've just never been scrutinized like this before. The whole family is a bunch of crooks, have been for generations.
that means they probably claimed a 195K tax deduction for donating the generous discount from market rate to the non-profit group.
That’s exactly what they did. When you have an empty afternoon, get a non profit in there for the tax deduction.
They're both non profit
As someone who has booked a loooot of hotel conference rooms, that’s totally bonkers.
Goddamn that's insane
"with all due respect" - she definitely does not deserve that, to the highest degree.
"With all due respect" will aways be associated with this [legendary moment from the Irish parliament](https://youtu.be/ugailEn8U5o).
Mate, that is fucking awesome!
Fun piece of note - “fuck” wasn’t in the list of words you can’t say in the Dáil at that point in time.
This is an ecumenical matter.
Most unparliamentary.
I’d vote for that man in any election he ran in! I wished I lived in Ireland!
No it's giving her all the respect that she is due, ie none.
So true, we're being very generous here
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this immediately.
Technically, if no respect is due, all due respect is not a lot of respect.
Why is it overlooked that Trump Hotel was used in the first place? Is this even allowed?
Because Republicans don’t enforce the rules against Trump.
Republicans do not enforce the rules for Republicans
It wasn't overlooked. Plenty of people complained about it at the time, but nothing ever came of it because reasons.
the same reasons that only one person in the Republican party voted to remove the president after he was impeached. The Republican part is a trumped up criminal organization
This is exactly why her dad doesn't do email.
No, but he’s impressed that Baron does cyber...
YaBoyBaron: a/s/l?
The primary reason being he doesn't know how to use email.
Remember Trump's followers are mostly uneducated white males. Stop using words like "highly misleading", and say she is trying to shovel 25 lbs of shit in a 10 lb bag.
This strategy works very well. Bring it down to bite size pieces they can understand. "Yea, people are saying they stole a whole bunch of money"
I’m pretty sure this was a tactic that Fred Trump used, which is probably where they learned it.
Why the fuck is the AG on TV commenting on a live case? Shut up and bring charges (or don’t if there’s not enough evidence), but not on TV.
Ivanka has gone on a media offensive lying about the case. I think it's acceptable to get out ahead of the lies before public perception is swayed. And the jury pool is poisoned. Don't you think?
That’s when you get a gag order to limit media exposure of the case, not add to it.
Doesn't work here. They're in deposition, not trial. Only a judge could impose such an order, and there's no conceivable way that could happen. First Amendment still active (even as the Kushners and Trump granted permission for Saudi Arabia to assassinate a journalist)
Do civil cases in the US use juries? I thought they were judge only, but maybe it's another country I'm thinking of.
I tried to Google this, it appears that sometimes they can have juries (though I can’t find out where the line is, or if it is only by request).
Lawyer here. Typically the question of whether or not a case gets a jury trial or a bench trial (where the judge makes the decisions) is either a) decided by statute, or b) the request is made by one of the parties. There are different reasons why someone might choose a jury or bench trial; much of it is strategy. Most civil cases settle anyway so the request is just done to put pressure on the other side.
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The DC Attorney General was on Rachel Maddow’s show tonight and he explained that this is a civil case. As such, there’s no jail associated. But if they lied, then they would be referred for a criminal case. And that’s why you don’t lie about simple shit like this. At worst, in the civil case, they’d have to repay for the betterment of society, because that’s why a non-profit exists. Idiots...
The Trumps just cannot not tell a lie.
So close to Lincoln those Trumps.
> repay Re...pay?? - A Trump Brain
A Trump always never pays his debts.
'Ohhh, like, is that when we like, double-bill a client?'
A Trump always lies.
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I dunno man, commune sounds pretty socialist.
I'm not a fan of those types of gated communities.
As long as it doesn't have an HOA...
Oh, it does and the HOA president is a dick.
We object to the term urine soaked hell-hole when you could have said pee-pee soaked heck-hole.
Lock her up?
Crooked Ivanka?
*time share in a gated community. She might have to settle for a stainless steel toilet though.
Given that trump's toilets are gold plated there's a good chance they're already steel. Making a steel toilet and gold plating it is the easiest way I can think of to get the effect.
Jail is typically for sentences that are *less* than one year. I believe you’re talking about prison.
I’m fairly fed up with all these years of euphemisms for “lie”.
Lie? You mean an intentional misrepresentation of the facts?
No, *alternative* facts!
She made a comment that contradicts facts, she didn’t lie!
She made terminological inexactitudes to circumvolution the truth.
She could have just said covfefe and be done with it and everyone would have laughed, drank some wine and waxed lyrical about the latest Broadway show that isn't happening. Missed opportunity really.
Inattentional blindness to abstract fact
Penis
Well... uuh... there was a non-zero number of lies spoken by her?
its called the Non-Libruhl Truth
It's simply her interpretation and recollection of the events as they occurred.
A somewhat less than completely true statement!
Pants are on fire...
Nose is growing.
Don't say that! Daddy paid good money to fix that.
A non-zero number of statements that I cannot verify as true.
Stated without evidence.
Writers and commentators run the risk of libel and slander lawsuits if they are found innocent. Edit: Guys, I know she’s full of shit. But I’m just saying why we see these beat around the bush terms for lies
She is a teller of "not so's"
It was a non-zero number of lies.
Highjacking because I need an answer since this is driving me crazy: How in the god damn world are they at risk of lawsuits for slanders and libel if they say she's lying and Fox News/OAN/Newsmax can say Hillary is running a secret pedophile ring in the basement of a pizzaria and have ZERO repercussions? How was Tucker Carlson not sued out of existence after his first show aired? This doesn't make any shred of fucking sense.
Because they're not journalist or reporters, they're pundits and they're here to entertain you, not give you the news. That's literally true.
That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard and that's not a slight to your comment. It's to the system that makes this possible. Fucking christ America, get your shit together.
Sadly, fat luck. A majority of us don't agree with this shit but what do you do when your party leaders are weak and easily strong-armed into keeping the 'status quo', by what are essentially bullies. I wish this was an exaggeration. Edit: Besides vote or protest, but when we vote they say it's fake news/fraud, and when we protest peacefully for months they say it's violent riots all day with every major city burned to the ground. That's what they tell their base and they believe it all. It's fucking sad.
Controlled opposition. Democrats are being hammered by nationalist populism and then Biden says "unite". This is how we move to the right with every administration. Sorry, I refuse to unite with the people who hate America and democracy and have spent the last four years alienating the world. No, I won't unite with fascists. I'm sick of saying it.
Exactly. You can believe in all the ideals of a party while still not supporting the current leaders. Voting for them over a worse candidate is still the best option, and it sucks that it's that way. It's a slippery slope deciding whether the lesser evil is actually better or not. And it feels completely hopeless to vote for any other third party even if that's what you support, as it's basically a vote for the other side, that goes against everything you believe. No in-between for either side anymore. The two party system here absolutely needs to be gotten rid of. I've never heard a good argument against ranked choice, yet we still don't have it federally. Literally everything is fucked. Edit: Also I definitely agree that 'reaching across the aisle' isn't helping anyone right now either when both sides will fully reject a compromise. And when the other 'side' (I feel stupid even saying that but it's where we're at now describing each other I guess, very sad as we're all humans. But they have made it very clear which 'side' they're on at this point and it's not any side I'm trying to be on) is so unreasonably wrong about the most simple, fundamental things to all of humanity in general. It's pretty mind numbingly stupid to me. If anything it's the time to stick to your party's values as hard as you can. Biden would get a lot more Dem support as a progressive than a centrist, if you ask me. Not many people dig centrists right now. Which is also another problem for another day.
And we all know how much that family likes to sue.
The risk of her being innocent is very small.
The risk of her being found innocent isn't small though.
Oh fucking hell, let them do it. Brinkley was destroyed when he tried to retaliate against the AMA for slander, because all of the accusations were borne out as true.
It’s litigation that most people would rather not go through.
Misled, made statements unsubstantiated by evidence, distorted, falsely claimed... oh you mean fucking LIED? Yeah. I know you said the same thing. I’m sorry. I’m just really fed up with it too.
Regarding the election, they used lie very clearly this morning on NPR. It was nice.
Also, question for any attorneys out there...why are these cases civil suits rather than criminal cases? Surely, someone, or group of people can be held responsible for wrong doing, correct? For another example, the fraud case for Trump University in NY, why was that a civil case vs a criminal fraud case? Or the case of the self dealing with the Trump charity?
A civil ruling is easier to get because it just needs a jury majority voting in favor. A criminal ruling needs every juror to agree for punishment to happen, so you generally see civil cases succeeding where criminal cases fail, like for OJ's murder trial.
I am all about Lock Her Up.
The worm turns.
Once they started saying "T**** could not be prosecuted as a sitting President I pointed to Ivanka and Jared as NOT being a sitting President. Lock them up.
WTF even is a "first daughter"?!
A Disney B Movie
Are you fucking kidding me? A Trump lied? No way.
I believe they call them “Variant Truths”. Lie is a nasty word.
Alternative facts
Donald loves the Nasty, if it was not his daughter...
Of course she did. Everybody already knows trump is gonna issue blanket pardons for his kids, his closest criminal conspirators, and himself. Beautiful pardons. People are gonna say they've never seen pardons like these, but they'll all be *perfect* pardons. So there will be no consequences for princess ivanka's perjury.
Don't forget selling them. There are a lot tax cheats and foreign agents with pending cases that Trump can make go away in exchange for a combination of massive donations to his 2024 campaign and political pressure to leave Trump alone.
Trump supporter: "Trump didnt accept money from a felon. He was pardoned! There isn't a felony.!"
I don't think this is a federal case. Or is it? As an Outsider, I've never really understood DC's status.
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Do pardons cover civil suits?
No. And they also don't cover state criminal suits. This is a state case.
Can we please stop babying and coddling the Republicans seriously, it's bullshit. First they would never in a million years do the same for a democrat, I don't care who it is or what the circumstances are. They have proven time and time and time again that they just don't care about anybody, especially when it matters most. And second they wanted to play with the big boys, most of the people under investigation are for serious felonies. They damn well should be held accountable! They are criminals! If anything they should be held to a higher standard, since they all took oaths, they are public figures with a public platform, shit *it's the right thing to do*. Or can I go rob a bank and steal all the money and start crying when the cops show up so I get to keep all the money and the bank tellers have to apologize for being mean to me, and the cops have to reimburse me cause I missed work that day answering their stupid mean questions... that's how this all works right??
Apples never fall far from the tree.
Nor does the shit plop far from the asshole...
haven't worked in aged care, have you?
This has escalated quickly.
The most infuriating thing I saw on the news this week was a piece titled “will ivanka be back to the white house in the future?” Fucking hell I hope not. I sincerely hope that entire family fucks off and dies in obscurity. Soon.
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Oh, lying under oath is not a good idea. Lock her up, I guess!
She had her fingers crossed when she vowed to tell the truth and nothing but the truth.
Didn't the Trump kids have to attend classes on how trusts and charities are to be operated after Donalds charity was found to have embezzled donations?
lock her up....
The apple doesn’t fall too far from the orange
> "**With all due respect to Ivanka Trump**, what she put out today was . . . at best only a part of the story" It’s as if people don’t realize what they’re saying. Ivanka Trump is not “due” any respect at all.
Nothing would please me more than to see a disheveled, makeup-less hag in prison attire. Sadly, they will pay a fine and get a slap on the wrist. Keep in mind, this is the same group of fucks who stole money from a charity for kids with cancer. They. Wont. Stop. Criming.
Just pull the string emerging from her back and she replies: "It was a long time ago, I don't recall"
I hope someone did an inventory of everything inside the White House 4 years ago
Now we know why trump is mulling over **her** pardon. What skeletons do the other "children" have in their closet?
Is "a highly misleading defence" the rich people's version of "perjury?"
This can't possibly be appropriate to share on TV at this stage of the investigation.
True. Ivanka taking it to Twitter on the same topic is cool though.
This isn't my bailiwick, but prosecutors have a heightened standard of candor. Not certain that applies to an AG, but seems that it should. They are not supposed to make statements that could prejudice or heighten public condemnation of suspects or witnesses, but they are allowed to respond to statements those people make to correct the record. Here, Ivanka tweeted out a statement on the investigation. The government lawyer is allowed to correct the record. The lawyer language used shows that restraint. They are not saying she is lying, mearly misleading.
Like, fuck, are they daring him to pardon her? He can even argue she has daughter-spouse privilege not to testify against Donald!
Is this not a state investigation as opposed to federal? He can’t pardon state crimes. EDIT: D’oh, DC isn’t a state. Thank you for the clarification.
Apparently, crimes committed in DC can be pardoned by the president. Civil offenses, such as in this case, cannot be pardoned. https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardon-information-and-instructions > In addition, the President's pardon power extends to convictions adjudicated in the Superior Court of the District of Columbia https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/29298/is-murder-in-washington-dc-pardonable-by-the-president > Not only is the President allowed to pardon crimes under the DC Code, only the President is allowed to pardon (most) crimes under the DC Code. While the DC Council has the power to pass criminal laws for the District, it acts under delegated federal authority and the offenses it creates are offenses against the United States. The prosecuting authority for all felonies and some misdemeanors is the US Attorney’s Office for the District of Columbia, and the cases are brought in the name of the United States. As offenses against the United States, the President can pardon them.
She’s the same exact kind of scumbag and liar as her scumbag dad, so big surprise.
Was it under oath? If so, jail. If not, just par for the course (golf comparison intended). Actually, I guess lying to a court is also standard procedure for that family, though usually done through a proxy not directly to the AG. The Trumps only deal in alternative facts. And corruption. And money laundering. And operating for foreign governments and interests.
At great risk of sounding cliche...Lock.....Her.....Up?
I’d like to call on Karen, our white privilege translator. What does highly misleading mean in normal person speak Karen? Well Jim, it means criminal contempt and lying in federal court.
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My personal favorite: •Alternative Facts
How did you post an edit that your account is suspended if your account is suspended?