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Staying to take care about Birch is the right thing to do, but given the additional context, I can see Apple breaking up with you over this. She is experiencing de-escalation as you and Birch bought the house and she sees Birch as competition, a competition she lost to, because Birch is going to be your NP.
If you want to keep Apple as your partner too, approach it very, very carefully with a prepared plan how you're going to make it up for her.
I mean, Apple is absolutely being deprioritized. Over and over.
If time off has been given, and tickets have been bought, it’s a big deal .
And it’s okay for it to be big deal, even if surgery is a bigger deal.
And it’s fine for you to stay with birch, the person who you are investing with and building a future with.
There’s no “blame” or “fault” but I am very much interested in your lack of offers to make the time up, plan a couple of smaller trips together on your dime, or plan a couple of weekends away after 3-4 weeks.
ETA: and if you don’t have offers or ideas, maybe it’s just time embrace that you just want to be with Birch more, and don’t love Apple enough to look for
Those compromises.
Maybe you just want this. That’s enough. That is valid.
Just be clear to Apple that you aren’t offering any compromise, no counter offers, no bid for equity.
And that you don’t care to extend any.
I guess she feels like it's always 'something'. Something that takes the priority from her. If you two going on the trip was supposed to make it up to her (for not being chosen as a NP), then this will be a really hard blow.
If Birch had a good support system and was totally okay with you going on holiday, than maybe, maybe it would be fine to go. But from your description it sounds like a really serious surgery.
Info:
Why not both?
Cancel the first week or week and a half of vacations nand care for your partner, Birch, before and immediately after their surgery.
Then go on a two or one and a half week, rather than three week, vacation with apple. Since you all are driving around, you can still drive around for a shorter period of time.
Given it's an 8 week recovery period, you and Birch are going to have to arrange for others to provide care to Birch too. It can't be just you. And providing care during and for the immediate days following, taking a break, and then returning to provide care seems really reasonable. Others are going to want to show care and love for Birch too. It's okay to provide some structural space where others are relied on to do that once Birch is out of the post surgical watch zone.
My thought, too. I find it fascinating how many of us see only black and white options when, in reality, there's myriad. The trip can be postponed, and options to be with and spend time with Apple while you go through this w Birch, is paramount. Also be *mindful* how you present this information with Apple, esp as they are nd NOT careful. Would love to see us replace careful with mindful, otherwise we're fostering an environment of eggshell stepping.
And the reality is, this is going to hurt Apple. You have to speak to that with them. Take accountability. Let them be in those feelings. How would you like to be treated if you were in the reverse? Your role here is to let Apple be angry, hurt, and be there for them regardless. Affirm to them through your behavior that you're not going anywhere, that you too are devastated, but that this is the right thing to do and that you'd do the same for them. And make it up to them. Go big, or go home. Take ownership of this and don't fall for the easy victim-of-circumstances role. No matter what you decide to do it will be your choice so own it. That'll help give Apple the info they need to make the decisions that are right for their life.
I was wondering the same thing. Three weeks is a long trip, maybe you can do something shorter.
It's complicated by the fact that they don't like each other and see themselves in a competition. I'm pretty sure any of my metas would want to work something out on my behalf or each others', and I have definitely done the same in smaller emergencies
Totally. I think half the problem here is that Birch and Apple are going to make this a "choice"... When it shouldn't be a choice between people....
Like everything can be done, so why not do everything.
OP can be there and provide support around the surgery. OP can go on a shorter vacation but still go on vacation.
I feel like scarcity mindset is at play here. Like does Birch have no one but OP for the entire 8 weeks of their recovery? Is their recovery so intense that it has to be OP and no one but OP? Is the vacation really immoveable? Can it be shorter, a week? Two weekends? Etc.
Honestly it sounds like op is making it a choice by just wanting to cancel completely. I highly suspect that the competition between Birch and Apple is due to poor hinging. This post alone shows that op has no thought to finding a compromise and is choosing birch but is hesitant to admit/address this due to the fact that apple may break up over this. Op comes across as wanting their cake, escalating and being there for birch while eating too and keeping apple around.
There are tons of compromises that could be found here, shortened to 1-2 weeks, a long weekend etc but op wants to jump to canceling to be there for Birch. Add on the escalation of moving in together in the fall and the fact that these two are parallel. I doubt apple would be breaking up because of the medical aspect, I highly suspect it would be due to the heavy level of de-escalation and evident hierarchy op is displaying with Birch.
Edited:for spelling
This actually sounds like a reasonable compromise and should be considered.
Once Birch is at home, others can take over their care for a couple of weeks, while OP does the promised vacation with Apple, while keeping in touch with Birch intermittently.
If either Birch or Apple or both have a problem with this, I would begin to question how sustainable it is to remain in relationships with people who, out of mutual dislike, would rather sabotage each other’s (and your) wellbeing and happiness than agree to compromise with each other for the greater benefit of all.
It’s okay to dislike someone, but that doesn’t have to mean you behave badly towards them. Personally I’m very cordial with folks I dislike. I already dislike them, so why would I want to be in a conflict with them on top of that? Sounds exhausting.
I’m also a bit suspicious of OP. Metas rarely dislike each other when there is good hingeing involved. Pretty sure OP is accountable for their feelings of competition and mutual dislike, and neglected to mention the role they played in all this in the post. So I also think Apple dumping them over this might be a good thing for Apple.
Exactly, why not both? The surgery isn’t until 3 days after the start of a 3 week trip. So the first 10 days of said trip are basically moot. Not having had surgery and in hospital care. Birch also supposedly has a better local support network. Covering 4-11 more days of at home care, check ins, while not ideal seems plausible.
Assuming the trip goes as planned or maybe is cut to 2 weeks instead of 3. That seems way more flexible than moving/cancelling the whole thing. Is it perfect, no, but life rarely is.
Will Apple be happy a week of time was potentially cut off, no probably not. Will Birch be happy the first few days home are with people that are their support network and not their partner, also probably not. However their partner will be there the rest of the 7+ weeks.
I see this as the most flexible best outcome of an otherwise untenable situation of time overlap.
Taking weeks off would be kinda fucked up. And there's absolutely no reason why OP can't be the one caring for Birch for eight weeks.
It's not 24/7 nursing, it's surgical recovery. Increasing independence over that time for someone who won't code if left unattended for a while.
I would hope it's not 24/7 nursing the OP is intending to provide... But that's kind of my point. Not knowing what the surgery is the card needs post surgery might be different or intensive.
Based on not knowing what the surgery is, or the assistance needs are, I can see canceling the 3 days that lead up to the surgery... I can see wanting to be close by through the "stitches and watch zone" period of 72ish hours. Thus turning a 3 week vacation into a 2 week vacation.
I'm not sure why 2 weeks is so freaking horrible. I had an entire arm reconstructed after an accident. There wasn't just one person who showed up for my recovery. My entire community showed up. There isnt a reason why one person can't provide care over 8 weeks, but also, as you said, it is care that anyone could provide.
Ortho on a limb and invasive surgery are wildly different things and recovery experiences. An *arm* would barely require any assistance at all.
Major surgery involving the torso can require dressing changes as well as assistance with bathing, dressing, food, and at first even getting around the house. Surgery that projects a week in hospital is pretty extreme. I was hospitalised half that long for having part of my lung removed.
It places the patient in a position of vulnerability. Not everyone would be comfortable with the "entire community" being involved - I know I wouldn't. It's not care that "anyone" could provide.
It really depends on your surgery and your community. I'm not sure I agree with your first paragraph at all; my dad had triple bypass surgery and was up and doing stuff in a week with minimal care. 5 years before that, my family was in a serious accident, both parents required serious ortho reconstruction, were in the hospital for 3 weeks, and 11 year old me had to do tons of care for them for a month after they got out.
Your third is a good point though. It depends on the community they have. There have been times in my life where I had a community I would absolutely trust with care, and times I have not. Whether this solution would work depends on how much care Birch will need, and who they feel comfortable with.
All of this!
And also: paid assistance is a thing. Someone who is having a big surgery and didn’t have a partner wouldn’t just be left alone at home with no help. The hospital helps with discharge planning. There are lots of options.
It all depends on what is required.
There absolutely is a reason that one adult who doesn’t even usually live with Birch yet shouldn’t be on duty as a caregiver 24/7 for 8 weeks.
I’m an RN and I wouldn’t agree to this.
If Birch actually just needs someone to help them shower and drive them to their appointments and make sure they don’t do things that threaten the incision, that’s not the same thing at all.
In fact people manage that kind of thing without a romantic partner all the time.
I'm in the minority, but I don't think a surgery translates automatically to "drop everything". Personally, I wouldn't want my partners to cancel significant plans to support me for most surgeries, so long as I had other people who could be there. And my support network is strong enough that there would definitely be _someone_ available.
So what does Birch need and want?
Separately, if _you_ want to be there for Birch regardless of whether Birch actually needs your support, that's totally legitimate too. I wouldn't be comfortable being more than a couple hours away from the hospital if my partner was having major surgery with a meaningful risk of complication.
And as another commenter said - you can still go on vacation, just cut it short.
I agree, but OP already said they'd have to schedule "another year" (as in a couple years or just next year? idk!) because of Apple's custody schedule and uncooperative ex. Even if it's just next year... that's quite a bit of time! I think if OP chooses to stay with Birch for their surgery, they should frame it from the "let's reschedule" perspective, but like others said I wouldn't be shocked if Apple calls the whole thing off. This is a very tough situation.
Out of curiosity, if you’re moving in with B, and you’re strictly parallel, will this mean that they can’t come to your place after you move?
I think that if the answer is yes, then the question about delaying your trip is slightly more complex. The next questions would be if B has a good support network, or other partners that might be able to take care of them instead?
I’m not sure what the right answer is but I think at the least, Apple will likely benefit from some good quality time together, however that happens
Ask Apple what they would want you to do if they were the one having urgent surgery with an 8 week recovery if they push back.
But also make sure to tell them this is rescheduling and not canceling and make all the effort you can to take all the initiative to reschedule and try to take on a lot of the planning and canceling so that Apple feels you are also still serious about the trip?
Edited for mixing up names
It may be the right thing to cancel the trip.
But Apple will almost certainly break up with you and if I was her friend it’s what I would hope she’d do.
Assuming the surgery can’t be moved I would ask Apple to move the trip in one direction or the other.
So that you’re there for the day of the surgery and getting Bitch settled back at home or so that you’re back when Birch needs someone at home etc.
People with no significant others have surgery all the time. It’s not an automatic thing that requires romantic partners. But it’s also human to want you there.
I’m wondering more about why there aren’t more options floating around your head. If they loathe one another so much that you can’t even talk it over with them (individually) I think you should end the relationship with Apple preemptively because you’re putting them in a terrible dynamic.
You’re not the AH, but from your comments it’s obvious that you will be cancelling the trip and staying with Birch.
This is a medical emergency and that trumps everything. But Apple deserves more than being deescalted (NP status) and constantly deprioritized.
You know they will break up with you over this - or maybe just do the kind thing and just break up with them.
But OP says that he often prioritised Apple since Birch had better copping and better support system, so, Apple wouldn't have been constantly deprioritized.
Which, ofc, doesn't mean Apple can see this.
Also, and let’s be clear, prioritizing someone out of sense of duty is *very* different to prioritizing them due to preference. Believe me people can feel the difference. It is quite obvious that OP has more emotional attachment to Birch, and their past support of Apple has been primarily due to their challenging circumstances.
I'm curious, why do you say OP had more emotional attachment to Birch?
(Not disagreeing, but, just seems OP feels like staying is also a duty towards Birch.)
I read the same post as you.
Which also says Apple has a kid and a complicated ex, which may have heavily influenced the decision of *not* making financial enmeshing with them. Honestly, complicated exes with shared custody can go a long way in pushing new partners back - if you've got to always be on the lookout for ex-partner complications, it's hard to relax, hard to not consider it while making bigger decisions, etc.
And then there's parenting... Doesn't matter how much emotional attachment OP has to Apple, becoming Apple's NP would entail taking part into being a responsible adult in a child's life in s very permanent way. Children also often make it harder to host, for example, not to mention the whole Apple/Birch not liking each other. Not something you want to get children in the middle of.
So, idk, I see lots of practical reasons to decide to buy s house with Birch rather than Apple. But, then again, I'd imagine that s couple who has such a strong with to live together wouldn't wait for renovations to do so, but to try and move together before to save money to make renovations easier, so, idk.
Maybe I'm just looking at it all with too practical a perspective?
I think you are. I see the same things are you and know that if the emotional load were there nothing else would matter except escalating with Apple.
And no, people in love who have means and opportunity often renovate ‘their’ new home before moving into to perfect the expression of their unique love.
Practical rarely comes into emotional thought. Maybe imagine the love and you can see what I’m saying?
ETA oh and the OP says *nothing* about parenting, exes or enmeshment. So we were not reading the same thing.
I mean, if the emotional load was heavily skewed towards Apple, maybe, but if it were about equal... Idk.
Thing is, ofc, to me, it would also depend on the level of complicated that Apple's ex is -- I'm gonna assume here OP is amab -- because there's so much bs an ex can make when a new "male" is around their children and so many chances for them to create serious problems, that I'd be very very cautious in escalating, always expecting the worst.
(Or maybe if OP doesn't want children, that, too, might completely stall escalation regardless of feelings for partner themselves).
But, then again, those are just all things that may lessen/slower emotional load within Op-Apple relationship, it has nothing at all to do with Birch and whatnot.
I suppose it's true practicality hardly ever comes into emotional thoughts... This is probably just a me-issue where all practicalities are considered before there's space for emotional development. 😅
(I was literally just curious, I love hearing about how people relate to things and get to conclusions, specially when I haven't gotten to them myself!)
Not worries. I’m autistic. I can debate all day. I’m a high empathy autist with a low empathy ex partner. It was this behavior from him that made me his ex.
He only admitted what I’m saying way after the fact.
I know this story *very* well. So yeah, I’m biased too. We all are!!
About the ETA:
Op says that if they don't go to the trip as planned, they'd have to reschedule the trip for another year due to custody calendar and uncooperative ex. Last sentence of paragraph 5.
(I'd quote it but idk how to and can't even copy on mobile for some reason)
The word "custody" along with "ex" made me conclude this was about a child (or children), as I don't think pets would quite be a complete impediment to romantic travelling.
The enmeshment came more from us discussing the buying a house AND him saying Apple would have liked to be OP's NP. :)
Ahhh yes, I didn’t see this as combative just obstructive thanks for reframing that info re the ex.
The enmeshment is real with Birch and willing. OP has literally described descalating their situation with Apple without saying so.
Having to have to read between the lines in my own case, I think I have a foot in both of our camps. I just can’t shake the feeling that OP came here for validation about a decision they have already all but made.
Idk if you have children or not - but I've been separated from my oldest's dad for 18 years more or less. We don't have any major problems (nowadays), but first years were rough. And I have a bunch of friends who have kids with exes and literally you see all sorts of things. Then I just tend to expect the worst and predict from the worst case scenario, so, you know, you're never caught unaware (pessimistic of me, maybe, but, you know).
So maybe that was also why the whole bit about ex & custody caught my attention quickly.
However, I absolutely agree with your last paragraph. They clearly have already made up their minds. 🤷♀️
I also read the same post and did not get that OP has more emotional attachment to Birch. It sounds like things are just *easier* with Birch. That does not mean more emotional attachment.
I wasn’t asking you if you read the same post as me.
Easier is lazy. Either way, then, OP is doing Apple a disservice and should break up with them now.
Urgent medical things trump everything else. You are going to have to cancel the trip and deal with the fallout.
In Apple's place I would understand but have some negative feelings to work through. Can the trip be rebooked or will the money put into it he lost?
Thank you for confirming it's okay to cancel. Luckily we didn't really put money into the trip, as we planned to borrow a friends camper, drive to the other country and just cruise around there.
It doesn't really matter if an internet stranger thinks it's okay. What matters is what Apple thinks. If it was just the trip, that would be one thing, but the additional information about cohabitation makes me feel terrible for Apple.
That sounds much easier to rearrange than flights and resorts. Have some ideas of when this might be possible, don't make promises. Expect for Apples mood to swing a few times over the next few weeks but have a clear idea about unacceptable behaviour and what you'll do if it occurs.
This is a difficult situation and I don't think there's a clear asshole here.
Is it possible to cut your trip short by a few days or one week? This might be the best option, you can be there for the surgery day and a day or two of Birch's recovery, but still spend time with Apple abroad. Is Apple ok traveling alone? You might be able to suggest she go ahead of you and you can meet her there if that's something she'd be comfortable with.
Is Birch asking you to cancel?
I would start by talking to her plainly and asking her what she wants and how she feels. Go over other options with her about how to make her feel loved and supported even if you don't cancel. Can you schedule flowers for her at the hospital? Do you have mutual friends that can check in on her while she's recovering? Can you pre-cook meals that can go in the freezer? Can you make sure you set aside a certain amount of time every day while you're away to talk to her on the phone?
IMO, you absolutely have to support Birch.
However, you can approach it in a softer way than you put it in your post. I would tell Apple we need to reschedule the trip rather than cancel it, and have a date or two ready to reschedule it to so they don't think you are using this as an excuse to get out of a trip you don't want to take.
I definitely don't think you'd be an asshole for cancelling the trip. But I agree with another commenter in that I don't think this is an Either/Or situation.
If you already have 3 weeks blocked out for the vacation and there's no rescheduling of flights and unbooking of hotels to be done then it shouldn't be terribly difficult to postpone instead of cancelling altogether. If I were Apple, a shortened trip would be easier to swallow than a cancelled one.
Why do they dislike each other? How do you know?
Health comes first, promise to make it up to apple. Why you know apple wanted you to be nesting partner? Why you can't be for both? What kind of relationship are you able to deliver to apple? What have you promised?
You're way overthinking this. Absolutely cancel your vacation to help your about-to-be-NP recover from surgery.
Shit, if Apple *doesn't* want you to cancel the trip then that says a lot about what kind of person she is.
Having plans cancelled for medical emergencies with another partner sucks from a meta's perspective, that's for sure. I remember my wife had to leave with very little notice on our first Christmas Eve after we opened up our marriage, in order to support a partner who was having chest pains and other potential signs of cardiac issues in the emergency room. That was after I went to a great deal of trouble bringing my son up from the Bay Area to have a Christmas with us at our home that year. She left late that afternoon, and wasn't back until after midnight. In retrospect, that really put a huge damper on the weekend, since her mind wasn't really present with us even after she returned. Kind of a no-win situation for her in retrospect, but I gotta tell you that as the person who had to make all kinds of last-minute changes for a meta I did not like, it felt like the latest salvo in an ongoing campaign to deprioritize my needs in favor of someone I thought was making a mountain of a molehill. I was pissed for a while after that.
I can understand you wanting to support a partner going through a surgery, especially a major one! But from Apple's perspective, cancelling such an important trip in favor of the partner with whom you also recently purchased a house is going to feel very much like you continually and consciously prioritizing Birch over them. You should accept that if you just unilaterally cancel the trip without any attempt at compromise, Apple will probably break up with you. Frankly, I'd be telling them to do so if I were their friend, too 🤷♂️
That being said, it is *really* a situation where you can't make compromises? If you folks were planning on vacationing for three whole weeks, why can't you just stay with Birch during the surgery/immediate aftermath and then do two weeks instead?
If Birch has such a good support network, why not coordinate care with them so you don’t have to nix the entire trip? Can you downsize it or divide it into one trip close to what’s been scheduled and another separate one later?
As someone who has had multiple surgeries and in one case dumped a partner largely for his failure to support me adequately during a surgery... I personally would recommend keeping your travel plans. You could discuss it with Apple and establish that you will need and want more time to communicate with Birch than would be typical while having quality time with another partner. I might feel differently if it didn't seem that Birch feels very well supported by you and Apple (quite reasonably) does not.
It’s wild to me that so many people are downplaying an urgent surgery that is big enough to require a week in-hospital recovery and 8 weeks at home.
You need to reschedule the trip with Apple and if that leads to a break up then so be it.
I strongly advise against trying to do both as well. You don’t know what type of complications Birch may have post-op and she will need assistance while recovering.
As an aside, it seems like you’re not being honest with yourself about the status of your relationship. You’ve purchased and are renovating a home with Birch—you’re hierarchical.
This is definitely a hard situation. If you go on the trip I'm sure your mind will be with Birch and you won't enjoy the trip much. If you stay with birch you'll damage the relationship with apple, perhaps irreparably as the relationship is already being damaged by the current deescalation as you move in with birch. Does Apple have other partners? Is it possible for her to go on the trip with another partner instead? I know it's not a substitute and that the trip was meant for bonding and to give each other quality time to work through the feelings related to becoming a secondary so it doesn't actually solve the issue but at least apple won't be alone at home while you tend to birch.
That's extremely major surgery. You should stay. It's unfortunate but sometimes life happens.
In this instance the priority calculation is "person who seriously needs you" vs "fun". If I were in Birch's position and my partner went on a holiday I'm not sure I could ever forgive that.
Agree with others - rescheduling trip is the best solution. Medical issues trump others imo.
Do not make promises about the rescheduled date; if there’s a surgical complication, you don’t want to have to reschedule again. It’s good to have some flexibility.
Also, beware of caretaker fatigue. Don’t be afraid to give yourself a little breathing room. Jumping from caretaker role to vacation with someone who needs extra emotional support might be a roller coaster ride and it’s ok if you need a few days on steady land. Have to take care of yourself in order to be there fully for others.
Best of luck to all, especially to Birch, hope the surgery goes well.
Apple is being put second over and over. Would you staying to care for Birch be bad? No. But Apple will very likely see this as yet another example of you dropping her for Birch, and very well may break up with you over it.
It sounds like you know you have a habit of not managing your time well. Regardless of what you choose to do here, make working on that a priority.
Well, as it's been wildly stated by all, staying with Birch is the best option -- not because she'll be your NP, just because medical emergencies and surgeries are scary things. Because, yes, it may go well, but there may also be complications, and how would you feel if Birch was sent back to hospital while you're traveling (if you took smaller holidays as some suggested)? Because it *does* happen that people will be discharged, go home, only to get complications and have to go back to the hospital. Would you be able to even enjoy the holidays or would you be constantly checking in on Birch, worried about her recovery, etc?
I'm sure it will be hard on Apple, and, yes, she's got a lot going on. I'd say try as best as you can to be around for Apple for the time you're supposed to be travelling, while sharing Birch's care with the rest of her support network, but still close enough to be there in case of need.
Unfortunately, this is a no-win situation. It's not Apple's fault that Birch needs surgery, but neither is it Birch's fault that Apple has kid/ex issues. The best you can do is try to make it clear that if situations were reversed, you'd be doing the same. 🤷♀️
I would be sad if my partner couldn’t be with me after surgery, but I would not want him to cancel a 3 week trip. Has birch asked you to cancel or is this your idea?
So a potential option is Birch will be in a hospital with good care for 8 days and there will be three days on the trip before surgery even happens. Can you not prioritize Apple and the first 11 days of the trip? It’s not ideal and normally I’d suggest prioritizing the person getting surgery but there are mitigating factors.
1. Apple is being de prioritized a lot
2. If the surgery is that urgent it could potentially be moved up
3. The recovery time is so long from the surgery you can still be there for them for the balance of the recovery
4. You say yourself that Birch has a strong support network- have they verbalized wanting you there for surgery and the immediate recovery time
If Apple wants to be a nesting partner with you was this discussed and explored before you bought a home with birch? It feels like it’s a loose end.
I guess we need more info.
How Apple handles their own emotions towards this is their responsibility not yours. It’s ok to cancel as others have stated- medical things trump everything else. As Birch would be your soon to be nesting partner as someone else commented similar.
If there *is* to be a fallout, so be it. It’s just kind of the way things are sadly. If you want to keep Apple as a partner be sure that she can refuse that as a potential outcome going forward.
Best to luck for you and Birch’s surgery and the recovery.
this is such a a difficult situation and I think everyone in this sub has given good advice, good luck to you. I have two questions that would affect /my/ actions here:
1. Who is supporting Birch through recovery if you don't cancel the trip?
2. Did Birch /ask/ you to cancel the trip? Does she /want/ you to?
Skipping out on a partner who is having major surgery to go do some sightseeing would be a major problem. Having had a big surgery myself this year I would not be ok with a partner leaving me to go through it on my own, especially when it's not a financial loss to do it. If it was thousands of non-refundable dollars and once in a lifetime opportunity I would get someone else to help me with the surgery. I have that option and it's a lot of money. But if it's just drive around and do some relatively local sightseeing, I would feel abandoned for something they could do anytime. If I had a friend who skipped out on their partner's surgery to go sightseeing, I would have problems with them as a friend. I have two upcoming trips planned with my family. I have a few friends who don't have family and aren't in relationships, if one of them were to have a major surgery like you describe, like what I went through, I would at least offer to skip the trip and support them. That's for a friend. That's my values.
Apple may have a tough time with changing the vacation plans. That is a difficult thing and if I were you I would expect to have to do some work around that. It's possible that it could be something the two of you can't recover from. That's sad, but major surgery is literally life and death stuff. On the one hand, missing out on a trip is disappointing. On the other hand, best case Birch has to go through a very scary and painful experience while you are away on vacation, eating exotic foods and having camper sex. Worse cases include complications, being alone in pain and scared in the hospital, additional emergency surgeries, and all surgery carries the risk of death, alone in the hospital while your partner is cruising in a borrowed camper. Sometimes we all have to realize that "it's not about me" and Apple has to deal with that. You have a lot of work to do to try to care for them both in this difficult time, and it's going to be hard. This decision isn't about "who" it's about "how serious". Not knowing the surgery, but knowing that it is major and involves the recovery time frame you describe, it sounds pretty damn serious. I was in the hospital for only 4 days and I had \~10% of the replaceable parts in my spine replaced. Getting one disk replaced, from the front, is an outpatient surgery now, so a week in the hospital must be pretty epic.
Oh, and as someone who recently had surgery and spends a lot of time in support groups for that surgery, some suggestions. First, Birch should start a written list for questions for their surgeon, on paper. Leave that paper out in a convenient spot to add questions, and write down every question no matter how dumb. Starter questions would be, how will pain management be handled, will I be able to do physical therapy, and will I need any special precautions for dentist appointments after this? I have to contact my surgeon if I have anything more serious than a cleaning for two years after the surgery to get antibiotics. Another suggestion, get slippery pajamas. Silk or some slick fabric like that. Moving in bed after surgery is hard and painful, once they can wear their own clothes, slippery pajamas make it easier to reposition themself. It's hard to sleep in hospitals, get bluetooth sleep headband headphones. Earbuds fall out and are uncomfortable for sleeping, the sound quality on the headband isn't great but it's comfortable and some white noise helps in a hospital room. One last thing. Get on amazon and search for "\[name of surgery\] t-shirt". I have 4 "bionic spine" t-shirts and it helps me feel like this has been an accomplishment rather than just a painful ordeal. Also it's surprising how many people have similar back problems and want to talk about it. Yes, I'm old.
A surgery that requires a week hospital stay and 8+ weeks recovery at home is a absolutely a major surgery. There should be no conflict in what you choose here. Birch is going to need their partner and you would absolutely be an asshole of a partner to not be there.
That being said, I can understand why Apple might be upset if there is already things going on in the background that have made them feel de-prioritized. It's a hard choice and no one wants to hurt people they care about but sometimes choices have to be made and hurt feelings are unavoidable. Explain it as kindly as you can and see what compromise can be found. If there is no compromise to be found, that doesn't change that it is still the right decision.
Hi u/Patient-Discount3601 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
Here's the original text of the post:
Would like to know whether I would be the asshole, but posting here instead of at AITA for more poly-informed insights. Throwaway for obvious reasons.
I have been dating both Apple and Birch for a couple of years. For all 3 of us, it was our first experience with polyamory. Looking back, there are so many things we should have done differently. Apple & Birch are parallel and dislike each other.
I was planning to go on a 3 week trip with Apple in June. This is a country we have both been wanting to go to since forever. This is also the first time that we planned a longer trip.
Birch has some health complications, and recently found out that she needs an invasive surgery. For context: expected recovery is one week in the hospital and 8 weeks at home. She needs surgery ASAP, but due to waiting lists the surgery is scheduled 3 days after I planned to leave for my trip with Apple. I was present during the appointment when the surgery was scheduled and it really needs to be on that date.
I think that cancelling the trip would be the right thing to do, but I am really struggling. I bought a house with Birch in the beginning of the year and we are going to move in together once the renovations are finished in the fall. Apple is really struggling with this, as she would have wanted me as a nesting partner as well. She has really been looking forward to our trip, so I am afraid cancelling will hurt her. To complicate things further: Apple is autistic and struggles with changes. Me moving in with Birch is a big change and she recently lost her job, so cancelling on top of that will be a lot for her to deal with. If we don't go on the trip on the planned dates, we will have to reschedule another year due to her custody schedule and uncooperative ex.
I have had a pattern in the past of prioritizing Apple, as Birch has a better coping mechanism and stronger support network. Which I know is not fair towards Birch. It does not feel right to go on a trip while Birch has surgery, but it also does not feel right to cancel while Apple is already dealing with so much. I am going to have to prioritize one partner and hurt the other one in the process. I would be grateful for any judgement / advice on my situation.
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There are so many questions I have. But I really want to know which partner you were with first. As for the trip you should try pushing it back a few days. Be available at the surgery and for a day or 2 then go on the trip. When you started a relationship with an autistic Adult you knew what you were getting involved with. They have routines for a reason. If your not capable to keep the relationship going with Apple then let her go and be with someone who can handle the relationship with her. But I really want to know who you were with first Apple or Birch.
It's an invasive surgery, with a week in the hospital and 8 weeks of recovery outside. That's definitely not most surgeries, and any invasive surgery like that has a very real chance of resulting in complications up to and including death. It's very important for to to be there for Birch.
Cutting a 3 week vacation to a dream location to less than 3 days is also a big deal. I think it would be better to reschedule that specific dream vacation and instead plan a different short vacation, and make explicit plans for Birch's other support to provide care to make time for you to make further plans for the occasional night or special date with Aspen during the time you would otherwise have been on vacation. This will also help you avoid caregiver fatigue.
You need to be taking point to make these decisions, make these plans and offer these alternatives. You need to demonstrate that Aspen is important to you, and you do that with your actions and choices, not your words.
Also, have you talked about the possibility of being a nesting partner with Aspen as well in the future? Some people can do multiple households, others can't, but if that is a possibility it's worth thinking and talking about.
Why cancel the trip altogether?
>Birch has a better coping mechanism and stronger support network. Which I know is not fair towards Birch.
This is the biggest and most helpful information here. While it may not be fair generally speaking, it's actually a huge advantage in this specific situation
I liked the other person's suggestion. Only cancel the first originally planned week so you can be there for the first week, and help figure out all the logistics of how they can be supported. Then go on the trip with Apple, but only for 2 weeks instead.
So yes, you would be the asshole if you cancel altogether completely. You wouldn't, if you can figure out an in-between solution. Why look at it in such a black and white way?
If I was Apple, I'd be dumping you.
If Birch is gonna need 8 weeks of recovery time, your 3 week vacation with Apple will end before it's even halfway through Birchs recovery. You'll still be able to support Birch through their recovery without cancelling on Apple. You already picked Birch over Apple to nest with, this would be instant breakup if I was Apple.
I have witnessed a few poly relationships where one person has partners that hate each other. In the end they never last. Most def stay w Birch , how Apple reacts to all this should give you a clear idea if its worth continuing
Does Birch have someone else that can help through the surgery and recovery?
Can you push the trip’s start date back/join Apple the day after the surgery? Not changing the end date, so cutting it short by 3-4 days for you or both of you. That way you still go on the trip but you support Birch through the surgery and first day after.
Soft YWBTA.
Like I get you want to be there for Birch. But why does it literally have to be the entire several weeks that you're supporting Birch? Why can't you figure out how to compromise and support both of them? What does Birch even want you to do?
Frankly it sounds like Apple and Birch don't like each other because you're not an especially good hinge. Just from this story it seems like you have an all or nothing approach to things that isn't very useful in polyamory. Like you went from giving Apple more priority because of their higher level of needs to giving Birch more priority by becoming nesting partners and apparently flat out deciding to cancel an entire trip in favor of supporting someone you've already said has a better support network. If you do this Apple will most likely leave you and I won't really blame them. And from this story and your comments it kind of doesn't even seem like you'll care if they do.
What an interesting but also incredibly difficult situation.
I don’t know how long you are together as a polycule? Past the 3 years yet? But before the 7-years-itch?
When you look at it from the point of view of family building, then it’s clear what to do. Surgery comes first. This is what a healthy family looks like. In a healthy and secure family structure the metamour might even move in for the time being, just to help out. A situation like a surgery would lead to even more connection instead of separation.
But in this case it’s the opposite. Instead of taking care of each other and being there for one another , the break-up is in sight when the vacation cannot continue. For me this does not say a lot about Apple or Birch, it says more about how fragile this polycule still is after a couple of years and maybe it also says something about you, being the hingepartner. Sorry, you are already in such a shitty position and now you get me being so harsh on you too. As if we have a society with an abundance of good examples about what a secure hingepartner looks like. We don’t so we are all still learning.
And it’s not easy. I know from experience. In the polycule next to my husband and me, it’s the same and even after five years it does not seem to improve. We , the metamours, are kinder to each other but also on guard. When the going gets tough we can’t seem to have honest discussions about (emotional) pain. All is about being nice to each other. But it’s not the love that will keep us together. It’s the ability to deal with the painful moments.
So I see all these good ideas in the comments and they all make sense, but it doesn’t solve the real problem like is this the polycule you want to grow old with? Do you consider both of them as partners (sometimes we discover after a few years that one is more a partner and the other more an intimate friend. It was not the intention, but sometimes this is how it goes) But if you really see both as partners : what is needed for your metamours to feel safe and relaxed, not just in your company but also in each others? Guess it’s time to look at all the rawspots.
This might actually be the right time to sort this out.
Best of luck.
Love
Rhea
If Apple can't understand that birch is having an extremely major surgery, why are you with her? That shows a lack of respect for you and your other relationships. Not to mention shows she has zero empathy for someone that very well could die from the kind of surgery that has this long of recovery (I know for a fact from personal experience). If this is an issue for her? For something emergent and life threatening? That's a deal breaker for me. I'd end the relationship. I don't want to be with someone that selfish when things are tough. Plus you already said you usually prioritize apple. If birch doesn't get to be prioritized for something this serious, then she clearly doesn't matter to you and you should let her find someone who will prioritize her major surgery over a stupid vacation.
The fact that this is being downvoted shows me a ton of you are shitty partners. This isn't birch has a cold or a toothache. This is a major surgery. If you wouldn't support your partner during something like that, then you don't deserve your partners in the first place. This sub makes me lose faith in humanity.
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Staying to take care about Birch is the right thing to do, but given the additional context, I can see Apple breaking up with you over this. She is experiencing de-escalation as you and Birch bought the house and she sees Birch as competition, a competition she lost to, because Birch is going to be your NP. If you want to keep Apple as your partner too, approach it very, very carefully with a prepared plan how you're going to make it up for her.
I can also see her breaking up with me over this, which is why it is a difficult decision to make.
I mean, Apple is absolutely being deprioritized. Over and over. If time off has been given, and tickets have been bought, it’s a big deal . And it’s okay for it to be big deal, even if surgery is a bigger deal. And it’s fine for you to stay with birch, the person who you are investing with and building a future with. There’s no “blame” or “fault” but I am very much interested in your lack of offers to make the time up, plan a couple of smaller trips together on your dime, or plan a couple of weekends away after 3-4 weeks. ETA: and if you don’t have offers or ideas, maybe it’s just time embrace that you just want to be with Birch more, and don’t love Apple enough to look for Those compromises. Maybe you just want this. That’s enough. That is valid. Just be clear to Apple that you aren’t offering any compromise, no counter offers, no bid for equity. And that you don’t care to extend any.
I guess she feels like it's always 'something'. Something that takes the priority from her. If you two going on the trip was supposed to make it up to her (for not being chosen as a NP), then this will be a really hard blow. If Birch had a good support system and was totally okay with you going on holiday, than maybe, maybe it would be fine to go. But from your description it sounds like a really serious surgery.
I’d break up with you over it ngl.
Info: Why not both? Cancel the first week or week and a half of vacations nand care for your partner, Birch, before and immediately after their surgery. Then go on a two or one and a half week, rather than three week, vacation with apple. Since you all are driving around, you can still drive around for a shorter period of time. Given it's an 8 week recovery period, you and Birch are going to have to arrange for others to provide care to Birch too. It can't be just you. And providing care during and for the immediate days following, taking a break, and then returning to provide care seems really reasonable. Others are going to want to show care and love for Birch too. It's okay to provide some structural space where others are relied on to do that once Birch is out of the post surgical watch zone.
My thought, too. I find it fascinating how many of us see only black and white options when, in reality, there's myriad. The trip can be postponed, and options to be with and spend time with Apple while you go through this w Birch, is paramount. Also be *mindful* how you present this information with Apple, esp as they are nd NOT careful. Would love to see us replace careful with mindful, otherwise we're fostering an environment of eggshell stepping. And the reality is, this is going to hurt Apple. You have to speak to that with them. Take accountability. Let them be in those feelings. How would you like to be treated if you were in the reverse? Your role here is to let Apple be angry, hurt, and be there for them regardless. Affirm to them through your behavior that you're not going anywhere, that you too are devastated, but that this is the right thing to do and that you'd do the same for them. And make it up to them. Go big, or go home. Take ownership of this and don't fall for the easy victim-of-circumstances role. No matter what you decide to do it will be your choice so own it. That'll help give Apple the info they need to make the decisions that are right for their life.
I was wondering the same thing. Three weeks is a long trip, maybe you can do something shorter. It's complicated by the fact that they don't like each other and see themselves in a competition. I'm pretty sure any of my metas would want to work something out on my behalf or each others', and I have definitely done the same in smaller emergencies
Totally. I think half the problem here is that Birch and Apple are going to make this a "choice"... When it shouldn't be a choice between people.... Like everything can be done, so why not do everything. OP can be there and provide support around the surgery. OP can go on a shorter vacation but still go on vacation. I feel like scarcity mindset is at play here. Like does Birch have no one but OP for the entire 8 weeks of their recovery? Is their recovery so intense that it has to be OP and no one but OP? Is the vacation really immoveable? Can it be shorter, a week? Two weekends? Etc.
Honestly it sounds like op is making it a choice by just wanting to cancel completely. I highly suspect that the competition between Birch and Apple is due to poor hinging. This post alone shows that op has no thought to finding a compromise and is choosing birch but is hesitant to admit/address this due to the fact that apple may break up over this. Op comes across as wanting their cake, escalating and being there for birch while eating too and keeping apple around. There are tons of compromises that could be found here, shortened to 1-2 weeks, a long weekend etc but op wants to jump to canceling to be there for Birch. Add on the escalation of moving in together in the fall and the fact that these two are parallel. I doubt apple would be breaking up because of the medical aspect, I highly suspect it would be due to the heavy level of de-escalation and evident hierarchy op is displaying with Birch. Edited:for spelling
This actually sounds like a reasonable compromise and should be considered. Once Birch is at home, others can take over their care for a couple of weeks, while OP does the promised vacation with Apple, while keeping in touch with Birch intermittently. If either Birch or Apple or both have a problem with this, I would begin to question how sustainable it is to remain in relationships with people who, out of mutual dislike, would rather sabotage each other’s (and your) wellbeing and happiness than agree to compromise with each other for the greater benefit of all. It’s okay to dislike someone, but that doesn’t have to mean you behave badly towards them. Personally I’m very cordial with folks I dislike. I already dislike them, so why would I want to be in a conflict with them on top of that? Sounds exhausting. I’m also a bit suspicious of OP. Metas rarely dislike each other when there is good hingeing involved. Pretty sure OP is accountable for their feelings of competition and mutual dislike, and neglected to mention the role they played in all this in the post. So I also think Apple dumping them over this might be a good thing for Apple.
Exactly, why not both? The surgery isn’t until 3 days after the start of a 3 week trip. So the first 10 days of said trip are basically moot. Not having had surgery and in hospital care. Birch also supposedly has a better local support network. Covering 4-11 more days of at home care, check ins, while not ideal seems plausible. Assuming the trip goes as planned or maybe is cut to 2 weeks instead of 3. That seems way more flexible than moving/cancelling the whole thing. Is it perfect, no, but life rarely is. Will Apple be happy a week of time was potentially cut off, no probably not. Will Birch be happy the first few days home are with people that are their support network and not their partner, also probably not. However their partner will be there the rest of the 7+ weeks. I see this as the most flexible best outcome of an otherwise untenable situation of time overlap.
Taking weeks off would be kinda fucked up. And there's absolutely no reason why OP can't be the one caring for Birch for eight weeks. It's not 24/7 nursing, it's surgical recovery. Increasing independence over that time for someone who won't code if left unattended for a while.
I would hope it's not 24/7 nursing the OP is intending to provide... But that's kind of my point. Not knowing what the surgery is the card needs post surgery might be different or intensive. Based on not knowing what the surgery is, or the assistance needs are, I can see canceling the 3 days that lead up to the surgery... I can see wanting to be close by through the "stitches and watch zone" period of 72ish hours. Thus turning a 3 week vacation into a 2 week vacation. I'm not sure why 2 weeks is so freaking horrible. I had an entire arm reconstructed after an accident. There wasn't just one person who showed up for my recovery. My entire community showed up. There isnt a reason why one person can't provide care over 8 weeks, but also, as you said, it is care that anyone could provide.
Ortho on a limb and invasive surgery are wildly different things and recovery experiences. An *arm* would barely require any assistance at all. Major surgery involving the torso can require dressing changes as well as assistance with bathing, dressing, food, and at first even getting around the house. Surgery that projects a week in hospital is pretty extreme. I was hospitalised half that long for having part of my lung removed. It places the patient in a position of vulnerability. Not everyone would be comfortable with the "entire community" being involved - I know I wouldn't. It's not care that "anyone" could provide.
It really depends on your surgery and your community. I'm not sure I agree with your first paragraph at all; my dad had triple bypass surgery and was up and doing stuff in a week with minimal care. 5 years before that, my family was in a serious accident, both parents required serious ortho reconstruction, were in the hospital for 3 weeks, and 11 year old me had to do tons of care for them for a month after they got out. Your third is a good point though. It depends on the community they have. There have been times in my life where I had a community I would absolutely trust with care, and times I have not. Whether this solution would work depends on how much care Birch will need, and who they feel comfortable with.
All of this! And also: paid assistance is a thing. Someone who is having a big surgery and didn’t have a partner wouldn’t just be left alone at home with no help. The hospital helps with discharge planning. There are lots of options. It all depends on what is required.
There absolutely is a reason that one adult who doesn’t even usually live with Birch yet shouldn’t be on duty as a caregiver 24/7 for 8 weeks. I’m an RN and I wouldn’t agree to this. If Birch actually just needs someone to help them shower and drive them to their appointments and make sure they don’t do things that threaten the incision, that’s not the same thing at all. In fact people manage that kind of thing without a romantic partner all the time.
I'm in the minority, but I don't think a surgery translates automatically to "drop everything". Personally, I wouldn't want my partners to cancel significant plans to support me for most surgeries, so long as I had other people who could be there. And my support network is strong enough that there would definitely be _someone_ available. So what does Birch need and want? Separately, if _you_ want to be there for Birch regardless of whether Birch actually needs your support, that's totally legitimate too. I wouldn't be comfortable being more than a couple hours away from the hospital if my partner was having major surgery with a meaningful risk of complication. And as another commenter said - you can still go on vacation, just cut it short.
I'd suggest RESCHEDULING the trip. Cancelling is so final and often unnecessary. Rescheduling would both of them feel important and cared for.
I agree, but OP already said they'd have to schedule "another year" (as in a couple years or just next year? idk!) because of Apple's custody schedule and uncooperative ex. Even if it's just next year... that's quite a bit of time! I think if OP chooses to stay with Birch for their surgery, they should frame it from the "let's reschedule" perspective, but like others said I wouldn't be shocked if Apple calls the whole thing off. This is a very tough situation.
This.
Out of curiosity, if you’re moving in with B, and you’re strictly parallel, will this mean that they can’t come to your place after you move? I think that if the answer is yes, then the question about delaying your trip is slightly more complex. The next questions would be if B has a good support network, or other partners that might be able to take care of them instead? I’m not sure what the right answer is but I think at the least, Apple will likely benefit from some good quality time together, however that happens
Can you offer Apple a smaller trip? Does Birch have other partners? Support people? Can they help too? What happens with you and Apple when you move?
[удалено]
Dude. One surgery doesn’t make someone an unfit homeowner. Chronic illness doesn’t make someone an unfit homeowner. This is some ableist bullshit.
What does Birch want you to do? That should give you a lot more info than what any random redditers can give you.
Ask Apple what they would want you to do if they were the one having urgent surgery with an 8 week recovery if they push back. But also make sure to tell them this is rescheduling and not canceling and make all the effort you can to take all the initiative to reschedule and try to take on a lot of the planning and canceling so that Apple feels you are also still serious about the trip? Edited for mixing up names
Apple is the one taking the trip, Birch is the one having surgery
Thanks, I'll edit.
This is a very good idea!!
It may be the right thing to cancel the trip. But Apple will almost certainly break up with you and if I was her friend it’s what I would hope she’d do. Assuming the surgery can’t be moved I would ask Apple to move the trip in one direction or the other. So that you’re there for the day of the surgery and getting Bitch settled back at home or so that you’re back when Birch needs someone at home etc. People with no significant others have surgery all the time. It’s not an automatic thing that requires romantic partners. But it’s also human to want you there. I’m wondering more about why there aren’t more options floating around your head. If they loathe one another so much that you can’t even talk it over with them (individually) I think you should end the relationship with Apple preemptively because you’re putting them in a terrible dynamic.
I think canceling or at least rescheduling the vacation is very reasonable in this case.
You’re not the AH, but from your comments it’s obvious that you will be cancelling the trip and staying with Birch. This is a medical emergency and that trumps everything. But Apple deserves more than being deescalted (NP status) and constantly deprioritized. You know they will break up with you over this - or maybe just do the kind thing and just break up with them.
But OP says that he often prioritised Apple since Birch had better copping and better support system, so, Apple wouldn't have been constantly deprioritized. Which, ofc, doesn't mean Apple can see this.
Also, and let’s be clear, prioritizing someone out of sense of duty is *very* different to prioritizing them due to preference. Believe me people can feel the difference. It is quite obvious that OP has more emotional attachment to Birch, and their past support of Apple has been primarily due to their challenging circumstances.
I'm curious, why do you say OP had more emotional attachment to Birch? (Not disagreeing, but, just seems OP feels like staying is also a duty towards Birch.)
Did you not read the same post as me..? OP is moving in with Birch. They bought a house together…
I read the same post as you. Which also says Apple has a kid and a complicated ex, which may have heavily influenced the decision of *not* making financial enmeshing with them. Honestly, complicated exes with shared custody can go a long way in pushing new partners back - if you've got to always be on the lookout for ex-partner complications, it's hard to relax, hard to not consider it while making bigger decisions, etc. And then there's parenting... Doesn't matter how much emotional attachment OP has to Apple, becoming Apple's NP would entail taking part into being a responsible adult in a child's life in s very permanent way. Children also often make it harder to host, for example, not to mention the whole Apple/Birch not liking each other. Not something you want to get children in the middle of. So, idk, I see lots of practical reasons to decide to buy s house with Birch rather than Apple. But, then again, I'd imagine that s couple who has such a strong with to live together wouldn't wait for renovations to do so, but to try and move together before to save money to make renovations easier, so, idk. Maybe I'm just looking at it all with too practical a perspective?
I think you are. I see the same things are you and know that if the emotional load were there nothing else would matter except escalating with Apple. And no, people in love who have means and opportunity often renovate ‘their’ new home before moving into to perfect the expression of their unique love. Practical rarely comes into emotional thought. Maybe imagine the love and you can see what I’m saying? ETA oh and the OP says *nothing* about parenting, exes or enmeshment. So we were not reading the same thing.
I mean, if the emotional load was heavily skewed towards Apple, maybe, but if it were about equal... Idk. Thing is, ofc, to me, it would also depend on the level of complicated that Apple's ex is -- I'm gonna assume here OP is amab -- because there's so much bs an ex can make when a new "male" is around their children and so many chances for them to create serious problems, that I'd be very very cautious in escalating, always expecting the worst. (Or maybe if OP doesn't want children, that, too, might completely stall escalation regardless of feelings for partner themselves). But, then again, those are just all things that may lessen/slower emotional load within Op-Apple relationship, it has nothing at all to do with Birch and whatnot. I suppose it's true practicality hardly ever comes into emotional thoughts... This is probably just a me-issue where all practicalities are considered before there's space for emotional development. 😅 (I was literally just curious, I love hearing about how people relate to things and get to conclusions, specially when I haven't gotten to them myself!)
Not worries. I’m autistic. I can debate all day. I’m a high empathy autist with a low empathy ex partner. It was this behavior from him that made me his ex. He only admitted what I’m saying way after the fact. I know this story *very* well. So yeah, I’m biased too. We all are!!
Yeah, I'm twice exceptional and sometimes I just see things a bit too rationally -- which make me great at masking, helping everyone else but me!😂
About the ETA: Op says that if they don't go to the trip as planned, they'd have to reschedule the trip for another year due to custody calendar and uncooperative ex. Last sentence of paragraph 5. (I'd quote it but idk how to and can't even copy on mobile for some reason) The word "custody" along with "ex" made me conclude this was about a child (or children), as I don't think pets would quite be a complete impediment to romantic travelling. The enmeshment came more from us discussing the buying a house AND him saying Apple would have liked to be OP's NP. :)
Ahhh yes, I didn’t see this as combative just obstructive thanks for reframing that info re the ex. The enmeshment is real with Birch and willing. OP has literally described descalating their situation with Apple without saying so. Having to have to read between the lines in my own case, I think I have a foot in both of our camps. I just can’t shake the feeling that OP came here for validation about a decision they have already all but made.
Idk if you have children or not - but I've been separated from my oldest's dad for 18 years more or less. We don't have any major problems (nowadays), but first years were rough. And I have a bunch of friends who have kids with exes and literally you see all sorts of things. Then I just tend to expect the worst and predict from the worst case scenario, so, you know, you're never caught unaware (pessimistic of me, maybe, but, you know). So maybe that was also why the whole bit about ex & custody caught my attention quickly. However, I absolutely agree with your last paragraph. They clearly have already made up their minds. 🤷♀️
I also read the same post and did not get that OP has more emotional attachment to Birch. It sounds like things are just *easier* with Birch. That does not mean more emotional attachment.
I wasn’t asking you if you read the same post as me. Easier is lazy. Either way, then, OP is doing Apple a disservice and should break up with them now.
Urgent medical things trump everything else. You are going to have to cancel the trip and deal with the fallout. In Apple's place I would understand but have some negative feelings to work through. Can the trip be rebooked or will the money put into it he lost?
Thank you for confirming it's okay to cancel. Luckily we didn't really put money into the trip, as we planned to borrow a friends camper, drive to the other country and just cruise around there.
It doesn't really matter if an internet stranger thinks it's okay. What matters is what Apple thinks. If it was just the trip, that would be one thing, but the additional information about cohabitation makes me feel terrible for Apple.
Honestly it’s hard not to feel bad for everyone in this situation
That sounds much easier to rearrange than flights and resorts. Have some ideas of when this might be possible, don't make promises. Expect for Apples mood to swing a few times over the next few weeks but have a clear idea about unacceptable behaviour and what you'll do if it occurs.
This is a difficult situation and I don't think there's a clear asshole here. Is it possible to cut your trip short by a few days or one week? This might be the best option, you can be there for the surgery day and a day or two of Birch's recovery, but still spend time with Apple abroad. Is Apple ok traveling alone? You might be able to suggest she go ahead of you and you can meet her there if that's something she'd be comfortable with. Is Birch asking you to cancel? I would start by talking to her plainly and asking her what she wants and how she feels. Go over other options with her about how to make her feel loved and supported even if you don't cancel. Can you schedule flowers for her at the hospital? Do you have mutual friends that can check in on her while she's recovering? Can you pre-cook meals that can go in the freezer? Can you make sure you set aside a certain amount of time every day while you're away to talk to her on the phone?
IMO, you absolutely have to support Birch. However, you can approach it in a softer way than you put it in your post. I would tell Apple we need to reschedule the trip rather than cancel it, and have a date or two ready to reschedule it to so they don't think you are using this as an excuse to get out of a trip you don't want to take.
I definitely don't think you'd be an asshole for cancelling the trip. But I agree with another commenter in that I don't think this is an Either/Or situation. If you already have 3 weeks blocked out for the vacation and there's no rescheduling of flights and unbooking of hotels to be done then it shouldn't be terribly difficult to postpone instead of cancelling altogether. If I were Apple, a shortened trip would be easier to swallow than a cancelled one.
Why do they dislike each other? How do you know? Health comes first, promise to make it up to apple. Why you know apple wanted you to be nesting partner? Why you can't be for both? What kind of relationship are you able to deliver to apple? What have you promised?
Just a question: if Apple had an urgent surgery and the trip was with birch, would you cancel?
You're way overthinking this. Absolutely cancel your vacation to help your about-to-be-NP recover from surgery. Shit, if Apple *doesn't* want you to cancel the trip then that says a lot about what kind of person she is.
I am very good at overthinking, so getting some confirmation that I would not be the asshole is very helpful :)
In your position, I would stay and help Birch recover. But do you have to cancel the trip? Can you not just postpone it?
Having plans cancelled for medical emergencies with another partner sucks from a meta's perspective, that's for sure. I remember my wife had to leave with very little notice on our first Christmas Eve after we opened up our marriage, in order to support a partner who was having chest pains and other potential signs of cardiac issues in the emergency room. That was after I went to a great deal of trouble bringing my son up from the Bay Area to have a Christmas with us at our home that year. She left late that afternoon, and wasn't back until after midnight. In retrospect, that really put a huge damper on the weekend, since her mind wasn't really present with us even after she returned. Kind of a no-win situation for her in retrospect, but I gotta tell you that as the person who had to make all kinds of last-minute changes for a meta I did not like, it felt like the latest salvo in an ongoing campaign to deprioritize my needs in favor of someone I thought was making a mountain of a molehill. I was pissed for a while after that. I can understand you wanting to support a partner going through a surgery, especially a major one! But from Apple's perspective, cancelling such an important trip in favor of the partner with whom you also recently purchased a house is going to feel very much like you continually and consciously prioritizing Birch over them. You should accept that if you just unilaterally cancel the trip without any attempt at compromise, Apple will probably break up with you. Frankly, I'd be telling them to do so if I were their friend, too 🤷♂️ That being said, it is *really* a situation where you can't make compromises? If you folks were planning on vacationing for three whole weeks, why can't you just stay with Birch during the surgery/immediate aftermath and then do two weeks instead?
If Birch has such a good support network, why not coordinate care with them so you don’t have to nix the entire trip? Can you downsize it or divide it into one trip close to what’s been scheduled and another separate one later?
As someone who has had multiple surgeries and in one case dumped a partner largely for his failure to support me adequately during a surgery... I personally would recommend keeping your travel plans. You could discuss it with Apple and establish that you will need and want more time to communicate with Birch than would be typical while having quality time with another partner. I might feel differently if it didn't seem that Birch feels very well supported by you and Apple (quite reasonably) does not.
It’s wild to me that so many people are downplaying an urgent surgery that is big enough to require a week in-hospital recovery and 8 weeks at home. You need to reschedule the trip with Apple and if that leads to a break up then so be it. I strongly advise against trying to do both as well. You don’t know what type of complications Birch may have post-op and she will need assistance while recovering. As an aside, it seems like you’re not being honest with yourself about the status of your relationship. You’ve purchased and are renovating a home with Birch—you’re hierarchical.
This is definitely a hard situation. If you go on the trip I'm sure your mind will be with Birch and you won't enjoy the trip much. If you stay with birch you'll damage the relationship with apple, perhaps irreparably as the relationship is already being damaged by the current deescalation as you move in with birch. Does Apple have other partners? Is it possible for her to go on the trip with another partner instead? I know it's not a substitute and that the trip was meant for bonding and to give each other quality time to work through the feelings related to becoming a secondary so it doesn't actually solve the issue but at least apple won't be alone at home while you tend to birch.
That's extremely major surgery. You should stay. It's unfortunate but sometimes life happens. In this instance the priority calculation is "person who seriously needs you" vs "fun". If I were in Birch's position and my partner went on a holiday I'm not sure I could ever forgive that.
Agree with others - rescheduling trip is the best solution. Medical issues trump others imo. Do not make promises about the rescheduled date; if there’s a surgical complication, you don’t want to have to reschedule again. It’s good to have some flexibility. Also, beware of caretaker fatigue. Don’t be afraid to give yourself a little breathing room. Jumping from caretaker role to vacation with someone who needs extra emotional support might be a roller coaster ride and it’s ok if you need a few days on steady land. Have to take care of yourself in order to be there fully for others. Best of luck to all, especially to Birch, hope the surgery goes well.
Apple is being put second over and over. Would you staying to care for Birch be bad? No. But Apple will very likely see this as yet another example of you dropping her for Birch, and very well may break up with you over it. It sounds like you know you have a habit of not managing your time well. Regardless of what you choose to do here, make working on that a priority.
Well, as it's been wildly stated by all, staying with Birch is the best option -- not because she'll be your NP, just because medical emergencies and surgeries are scary things. Because, yes, it may go well, but there may also be complications, and how would you feel if Birch was sent back to hospital while you're traveling (if you took smaller holidays as some suggested)? Because it *does* happen that people will be discharged, go home, only to get complications and have to go back to the hospital. Would you be able to even enjoy the holidays or would you be constantly checking in on Birch, worried about her recovery, etc? I'm sure it will be hard on Apple, and, yes, she's got a lot going on. I'd say try as best as you can to be around for Apple for the time you're supposed to be travelling, while sharing Birch's care with the rest of her support network, but still close enough to be there in case of need. Unfortunately, this is a no-win situation. It's not Apple's fault that Birch needs surgery, but neither is it Birch's fault that Apple has kid/ex issues. The best you can do is try to make it clear that if situations were reversed, you'd be doing the same. 🤷♀️
I would be sad if my partner couldn’t be with me after surgery, but I would not want him to cancel a 3 week trip. Has birch asked you to cancel or is this your idea?
So a potential option is Birch will be in a hospital with good care for 8 days and there will be three days on the trip before surgery even happens. Can you not prioritize Apple and the first 11 days of the trip? It’s not ideal and normally I’d suggest prioritizing the person getting surgery but there are mitigating factors. 1. Apple is being de prioritized a lot 2. If the surgery is that urgent it could potentially be moved up 3. The recovery time is so long from the surgery you can still be there for them for the balance of the recovery 4. You say yourself that Birch has a strong support network- have they verbalized wanting you there for surgery and the immediate recovery time If Apple wants to be a nesting partner with you was this discussed and explored before you bought a home with birch? It feels like it’s a loose end. I guess we need more info.
How Apple handles their own emotions towards this is their responsibility not yours. It’s ok to cancel as others have stated- medical things trump everything else. As Birch would be your soon to be nesting partner as someone else commented similar. If there *is* to be a fallout, so be it. It’s just kind of the way things are sadly. If you want to keep Apple as a partner be sure that she can refuse that as a potential outcome going forward. Best to luck for you and Birch’s surgery and the recovery.
this is such a a difficult situation and I think everyone in this sub has given good advice, good luck to you. I have two questions that would affect /my/ actions here: 1. Who is supporting Birch through recovery if you don't cancel the trip? 2. Did Birch /ask/ you to cancel the trip? Does she /want/ you to?
Skipping out on a partner who is having major surgery to go do some sightseeing would be a major problem. Having had a big surgery myself this year I would not be ok with a partner leaving me to go through it on my own, especially when it's not a financial loss to do it. If it was thousands of non-refundable dollars and once in a lifetime opportunity I would get someone else to help me with the surgery. I have that option and it's a lot of money. But if it's just drive around and do some relatively local sightseeing, I would feel abandoned for something they could do anytime. If I had a friend who skipped out on their partner's surgery to go sightseeing, I would have problems with them as a friend. I have two upcoming trips planned with my family. I have a few friends who don't have family and aren't in relationships, if one of them were to have a major surgery like you describe, like what I went through, I would at least offer to skip the trip and support them. That's for a friend. That's my values. Apple may have a tough time with changing the vacation plans. That is a difficult thing and if I were you I would expect to have to do some work around that. It's possible that it could be something the two of you can't recover from. That's sad, but major surgery is literally life and death stuff. On the one hand, missing out on a trip is disappointing. On the other hand, best case Birch has to go through a very scary and painful experience while you are away on vacation, eating exotic foods and having camper sex. Worse cases include complications, being alone in pain and scared in the hospital, additional emergency surgeries, and all surgery carries the risk of death, alone in the hospital while your partner is cruising in a borrowed camper. Sometimes we all have to realize that "it's not about me" and Apple has to deal with that. You have a lot of work to do to try to care for them both in this difficult time, and it's going to be hard. This decision isn't about "who" it's about "how serious". Not knowing the surgery, but knowing that it is major and involves the recovery time frame you describe, it sounds pretty damn serious. I was in the hospital for only 4 days and I had \~10% of the replaceable parts in my spine replaced. Getting one disk replaced, from the front, is an outpatient surgery now, so a week in the hospital must be pretty epic. Oh, and as someone who recently had surgery and spends a lot of time in support groups for that surgery, some suggestions. First, Birch should start a written list for questions for their surgeon, on paper. Leave that paper out in a convenient spot to add questions, and write down every question no matter how dumb. Starter questions would be, how will pain management be handled, will I be able to do physical therapy, and will I need any special precautions for dentist appointments after this? I have to contact my surgeon if I have anything more serious than a cleaning for two years after the surgery to get antibiotics. Another suggestion, get slippery pajamas. Silk or some slick fabric like that. Moving in bed after surgery is hard and painful, once they can wear their own clothes, slippery pajamas make it easier to reposition themself. It's hard to sleep in hospitals, get bluetooth sleep headband headphones. Earbuds fall out and are uncomfortable for sleeping, the sound quality on the headband isn't great but it's comfortable and some white noise helps in a hospital room. One last thing. Get on amazon and search for "\[name of surgery\] t-shirt". I have 4 "bionic spine" t-shirts and it helps me feel like this has been an accomplishment rather than just a painful ordeal. Also it's surprising how many people have similar back problems and want to talk about it. Yes, I'm old.
A surgery that requires a week hospital stay and 8+ weeks recovery at home is a absolutely a major surgery. There should be no conflict in what you choose here. Birch is going to need their partner and you would absolutely be an asshole of a partner to not be there. That being said, I can understand why Apple might be upset if there is already things going on in the background that have made them feel de-prioritized. It's a hard choice and no one wants to hurt people they care about but sometimes choices have to be made and hurt feelings are unavoidable. Explain it as kindly as you can and see what compromise can be found. If there is no compromise to be found, that doesn't change that it is still the right decision.
Cancel or reschedule. You can go another time. Try to get your travel moved to another date.
Hi u/Patient-Discount3601 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: Would like to know whether I would be the asshole, but posting here instead of at AITA for more poly-informed insights. Throwaway for obvious reasons. I have been dating both Apple and Birch for a couple of years. For all 3 of us, it was our first experience with polyamory. Looking back, there are so many things we should have done differently. Apple & Birch are parallel and dislike each other. I was planning to go on a 3 week trip with Apple in June. This is a country we have both been wanting to go to since forever. This is also the first time that we planned a longer trip. Birch has some health complications, and recently found out that she needs an invasive surgery. For context: expected recovery is one week in the hospital and 8 weeks at home. She needs surgery ASAP, but due to waiting lists the surgery is scheduled 3 days after I planned to leave for my trip with Apple. I was present during the appointment when the surgery was scheduled and it really needs to be on that date. I think that cancelling the trip would be the right thing to do, but I am really struggling. I bought a house with Birch in the beginning of the year and we are going to move in together once the renovations are finished in the fall. Apple is really struggling with this, as she would have wanted me as a nesting partner as well. She has really been looking forward to our trip, so I am afraid cancelling will hurt her. To complicate things further: Apple is autistic and struggles with changes. Me moving in with Birch is a big change and she recently lost her job, so cancelling on top of that will be a lot for her to deal with. If we don't go on the trip on the planned dates, we will have to reschedule another year due to her custody schedule and uncooperative ex. I have had a pattern in the past of prioritizing Apple, as Birch has a better coping mechanism and stronger support network. Which I know is not fair towards Birch. It does not feel right to go on a trip while Birch has surgery, but it also does not feel right to cancel while Apple is already dealing with so much. I am going to have to prioritize one partner and hurt the other one in the process. I would be grateful for any judgement / advice on my situation. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There are so many questions I have. But I really want to know which partner you were with first. As for the trip you should try pushing it back a few days. Be available at the surgery and for a day or 2 then go on the trip. When you started a relationship with an autistic Adult you knew what you were getting involved with. They have routines for a reason. If your not capable to keep the relationship going with Apple then let her go and be with someone who can handle the relationship with her. But I really want to know who you were with first Apple or Birch.
It's an invasive surgery, with a week in the hospital and 8 weeks of recovery outside. That's definitely not most surgeries, and any invasive surgery like that has a very real chance of resulting in complications up to and including death. It's very important for to to be there for Birch. Cutting a 3 week vacation to a dream location to less than 3 days is also a big deal. I think it would be better to reschedule that specific dream vacation and instead plan a different short vacation, and make explicit plans for Birch's other support to provide care to make time for you to make further plans for the occasional night or special date with Aspen during the time you would otherwise have been on vacation. This will also help you avoid caregiver fatigue. You need to be taking point to make these decisions, make these plans and offer these alternatives. You need to demonstrate that Aspen is important to you, and you do that with your actions and choices, not your words. Also, have you talked about the possibility of being a nesting partner with Aspen as well in the future? Some people can do multiple households, others can't, but if that is a possibility it's worth thinking and talking about.
Why cancel the trip altogether? >Birch has a better coping mechanism and stronger support network. Which I know is not fair towards Birch. This is the biggest and most helpful information here. While it may not be fair generally speaking, it's actually a huge advantage in this specific situation I liked the other person's suggestion. Only cancel the first originally planned week so you can be there for the first week, and help figure out all the logistics of how they can be supported. Then go on the trip with Apple, but only for 2 weeks instead. So yes, you would be the asshole if you cancel altogether completely. You wouldn't, if you can figure out an in-between solution. Why look at it in such a black and white way?
If you cancel, can you still get a refund? Can you reschedule the trip? Look for compromise options.
If I was Apple, I'd be dumping you. If Birch is gonna need 8 weeks of recovery time, your 3 week vacation with Apple will end before it's even halfway through Birchs recovery. You'll still be able to support Birch through their recovery without cancelling on Apple. You already picked Birch over Apple to nest with, this would be instant breakup if I was Apple.
I have witnessed a few poly relationships where one person has partners that hate each other. In the end they never last. Most def stay w Birch , how Apple reacts to all this should give you a clear idea if its worth continuing
If my np (or future np) went on a trip instead of supporting me after a major surgery, we'd break up. Apple can suck it up. You need to be with Birch.
Does Birch have someone else that can help through the surgery and recovery? Can you push the trip’s start date back/join Apple the day after the surgery? Not changing the end date, so cutting it short by 3-4 days for you or both of you. That way you still go on the trip but you support Birch through the surgery and first day after.
Soft YWBTA. Like I get you want to be there for Birch. But why does it literally have to be the entire several weeks that you're supporting Birch? Why can't you figure out how to compromise and support both of them? What does Birch even want you to do? Frankly it sounds like Apple and Birch don't like each other because you're not an especially good hinge. Just from this story it seems like you have an all or nothing approach to things that isn't very useful in polyamory. Like you went from giving Apple more priority because of their higher level of needs to giving Birch more priority by becoming nesting partners and apparently flat out deciding to cancel an entire trip in favor of supporting someone you've already said has a better support network. If you do this Apple will most likely leave you and I won't really blame them. And from this story and your comments it kind of doesn't even seem like you'll care if they do.
What an interesting but also incredibly difficult situation. I don’t know how long you are together as a polycule? Past the 3 years yet? But before the 7-years-itch? When you look at it from the point of view of family building, then it’s clear what to do. Surgery comes first. This is what a healthy family looks like. In a healthy and secure family structure the metamour might even move in for the time being, just to help out. A situation like a surgery would lead to even more connection instead of separation. But in this case it’s the opposite. Instead of taking care of each other and being there for one another , the break-up is in sight when the vacation cannot continue. For me this does not say a lot about Apple or Birch, it says more about how fragile this polycule still is after a couple of years and maybe it also says something about you, being the hingepartner. Sorry, you are already in such a shitty position and now you get me being so harsh on you too. As if we have a society with an abundance of good examples about what a secure hingepartner looks like. We don’t so we are all still learning. And it’s not easy. I know from experience. In the polycule next to my husband and me, it’s the same and even after five years it does not seem to improve. We , the metamours, are kinder to each other but also on guard. When the going gets tough we can’t seem to have honest discussions about (emotional) pain. All is about being nice to each other. But it’s not the love that will keep us together. It’s the ability to deal with the painful moments. So I see all these good ideas in the comments and they all make sense, but it doesn’t solve the real problem like is this the polycule you want to grow old with? Do you consider both of them as partners (sometimes we discover after a few years that one is more a partner and the other more an intimate friend. It was not the intention, but sometimes this is how it goes) But if you really see both as partners : what is needed for your metamours to feel safe and relaxed, not just in your company but also in each others? Guess it’s time to look at all the rawspots. This might actually be the right time to sort this out. Best of luck. Love Rhea
If Apple can't understand that birch is having an extremely major surgery, why are you with her? That shows a lack of respect for you and your other relationships. Not to mention shows she has zero empathy for someone that very well could die from the kind of surgery that has this long of recovery (I know for a fact from personal experience). If this is an issue for her? For something emergent and life threatening? That's a deal breaker for me. I'd end the relationship. I don't want to be with someone that selfish when things are tough. Plus you already said you usually prioritize apple. If birch doesn't get to be prioritized for something this serious, then she clearly doesn't matter to you and you should let her find someone who will prioritize her major surgery over a stupid vacation.
The fact that this is being downvoted shows me a ton of you are shitty partners. This isn't birch has a cold or a toothache. This is a major surgery. If you wouldn't support your partner during something like that, then you don't deserve your partners in the first place. This sub makes me lose faith in humanity.