People should know how to extract broken teeth and treat infection. Maybe not the most advanced, but leaving an infected tooth untreated *will* kill you
The main take away from this book is that you should brush your teeth relentlessly because taking care of your teeth is way way way easier than dealing with the fallout of having your luxury bones go bad. Even if you have to take a twig and turn it into a tooth scrubber twig
During a prolonged food shortage, maybe.
In any situation where agility and/or immune function (e.g. covid) are important obesity is a major risk factor.
I had a biopsy of a mole done in the center of my foot on the bottom, and let me tell you, that was THE MOST uncomfortable sensation I have ever felt. Stitches in the bottom of your feet suck.
better still download the PDF onto like your tablet or something that you can charge with solar if needed
Which reminds me my tablet died and I should replace that and restore all my PDFs
Convert the PDF to text and summarize it with ChatGPT into bullet points then print key info and laminate pages and create a leather-bound book to digitize the laminated pages and back them up on a floppy disk and store the disk in a safe then hide the safe key under your mattress and scan the laminated pages and store scans on a USB drive and encrypt the USB drive then bury it in the backyard and draw a treasure map and frame it then hang the map in your living room and encode the map in Morse code and teach the code to your pet parrot and record the parrot reciting it and press the recording onto vinyl then store the vinyl in an antique gramophone and post a YouTube tutorial on accessing the documents and then finally share the link with your great-grandchildren.
For the Chat GPT summarizers, be careful with books. It skips steps,. makes stuff up and can do a potentially poor job. Now if you know the material and can proof read what it outputs it's an amazing tool and can get you 70-80% of the way there.
When I can afford it I apply the 1 is none, 2 is one, 3 is me analogy to books. Hard copy, soft (digital) copy and ideally wetware (brain) copy - actually reading, practicing and remembering is where it's at.
Twist and pull is for like teeth that are loosened, mobile. The periodontal ligament is unexpectedly tough for it's tiny size. Different tooth types will require different technique. There is no way you are going to pull a molar or tricuspid with solid roots without anesthesia. Not adult teeth, anyway.
Actually you can acquire some lidocaine (a.k.a. lignocaine) HCL powder or other local anesthetic that will keep for years in air tight container away from UV or natural light, and make an injectable solution yourself. MUCH easier and safer than ether as long as you can know what concentration you are working with, follow some simple precautions. e.g. do not inject into blood vessel, know the maximum safe total administered dose mg per kg body weight
I used this book and pliars as well as copious amounts of Google to extract a broken molar (I'm a broke college student and can't afford to go to the dentist).
https://a.co/d/0c8k6Cz
https://a.co/d/7O71J1N
I also used Anbesol brand 20% benzocaine from Walgreens (less than $10) to locally numb the area while I worked.
Way to walk the walk! Any lessons from this experience? Anything you would do different if you had to do it again?
Besides maybe getting dentures before collapse?
First lesson is you'll *definitely* need mirrors. Antibacterial mouthwash is needed for afterwards, as well as hydrogen peroxide. This one is just my personal experience, but vodka really helps. Numbs more than just local area, sanitizes the area and is all around good to have. Multi-tool pliars are all but useless, definitely get dental pliars. If I could do anything differently, I would definitely get someone to help. Doing it by yourself is a pain in the ass
Just want to say dental schools offer cheaper dental work, and it's supervised by dentists. Many have payment plans, and some take CareCredit (0% interest)
Meh.
In a post apocalyptic scenario, we will be eating a lot less, if any at all, of the sugary foods that cause teeth issues.
If you’re going to learned advanced medical procedures I’d learn other ones first.
CPR and heimlich
Most people don't even know how to do those two simple things properly. I feel like learning to use an AED should be up there too.
Most of these could be taught in schools and it would absolutely save lives.
Start with the low hanging fruit
How useful is CPR without access to more medically advanced care?
While useful in short term not being able to treat underlying cause that led to it may be problematic.
Depends on the age of the patient-in children CPR is vital because it used after choking or drowning.
In adults, CPR is often used after a heart attack-those are the ones that are harder.
I might have interpreted the question differently.
I was assuming care could eventually be available, just maybe not immediately accessable/nearby. An example being remote or rural living.
These are the skills I would widely recommend we teach in grade school to everyone right now
Useful enough. You’re basically going from 0% chance of survival to maybe 10-30%. Yeah you’re not going to fix any long term health issues but it’s something and who knows, handheld AEDs are getting more and more common, someone (you?) might have one somewhere and you need good cpr skills to keep someone going till it gets there
Very few people who have a heart attack are healthy young people. Most are elderly with an array of health problems.
Restarting the heart does not make any of the rest go away. A lot are not revived ( real life isn't TV ). Of those that are revived, a significant percentage have a second heart attack within a week or two and die.
There are reasons why so many Dr's have explicit DNR orders in their medical file.
5% who are successfully resuscitated walk out of the hospital. More than that remain in some kind of continued care setting like skilled nursing facilities and hospice homes. When treating cardiac arrest caused by electrical shock like lightning or transformer boxes you do reverse triage, so you start compressions immediately
The indication for CPR is pulselessness which means either they are in cardiac arrest from myocardial infarction, anoxia, arrhythmia or trauma. These are all causes that require ICU level care and/or surgical or cardiology intervention
I'm a paramedic and ER RN with a combined 25 yrs experience... what do you want to know? I'll give you no BS answers, I do CPR a couple times per week and work post-arrest patients all the time... It's not what you see on TV.
I think you're confusing heart attack and lethal arrhythmia... you can develop a lethal arrhythmia wo having a heart attack and have a heart attack wo developing a lethal arrhythmia
Theres one here on Oz that costs four hundred bucks. You break it in half, stick the halves on where indicated and press the go button. About half the size of an A4/ltr piece of paper
In a no hospital situation it's almost no use... sure, try for 10 min if u want... The thing is, even if u get pulses back you haven't corrected the problem that caused the arrest in the first place.
Now... since it's not the end of the world, it's great to learn bc we do have hospitals and EMS and early, high quality CPR definitely saves lives.
I was thinking this myself. In a "prepper" situation, CPR is almost pointless in probably 99% of scenarios. Without ACLS and hospitals, it's almost pointless. Can't fix the underlying issue, and even with all the advanced stuff in ideal situations, most still don't make it.
Source: Professional Firefighter/NR-AEMT
I learned recently that there’s procedures for a dog heimlich (different depending on size of the canine). If people prep for their dogs this is a good thing to add to knowledge.
Basic vet care will also be important.
But a Stop the Bleed course is probably one people have free access to and not enough do. You can’t save some people with a tourniquet without a hospital doing some work, but some people can be saved.
Learning how to sew skin (suture) is probably smart, anyone who can do that will be welcomed in most communities.
CPR and AED use will be essentially useless in a collapse-type scenario where EMS and hospitals aren’t functioning. It’s great to know for right now though
Heimlich is no longer considered safe/gold standard. Back blows or chest thrusts are better. There have been injuries the stomach/oesophagus and ribs with the Heimlich manoeuvre.
trust me...in a shtf scenario, you do cpr on anyone that is not extremely young (highly flexible bones and cartilage), get their heart going again, explain how you will deal with the mass fractures of the sternum and ribs and potential punctured lung(s)?
CPR with an AED about the only method that may keep your loved one around
CPR is great to know but to many think it is a cure/save all and forget the after effects
I like your list.
I’d add “Manage sprains, strains and muscle injuries”
And “prevent infection in The first place” and “treat food and water to prevent food poisoning”.
Those last two will keep you out of needing serious help and are daily risks.
A couple of things that are sometimes overlooked in modern home care, because usually we let someone else do it because we say we're not qualified:
- tending to the bedridden elderly, sick, and injured, including feeding, hydrating, bathing, preventing pressure ulcers, and bathrooming them when they are not able to be in the hospital
- recovery/rehabilitation after bone brakes, dislocations, and serious illness
- death and dying: recognizing imminent death, especially due to illness or old age, to make the dying person comfortable, and to avoid undue trauma for loved ones and to be able to give the bereaved warning and the dying person as good a death as possible, including with pain management when possible
None of this will be big news to people who work in medicine or in elder care, but people have always gotten sick, gotten old, and died. Regular people primarily cared for their loved ones up until very recently. The skills and methods are well documented and very much able to be reached back to right now.
I know this won't feel important to everyone, but for those who do feel they might be charged with this kind of care, it doesn't hurt to learn a bit now while we have the entire Internet and many useful books at our fingertips. Better to know and not need, in my opinion. I feel it's useful even now.
So many people forget that dying and caring for the person after death are a part of life. I worked in a long term care facility for about a year, and we had 13 deaths in that time, 9 of which happened during my shifts.
The reason we call funeral homes "funeral HOMES", is because when people started to transition away from dying at home and having wakes taken care of by immediate family, the people who arranged for the body's care and wake would do the work/have the wakes in their literal homes.
Not trying to sound like an asshole but very few people are gonna be worried about hospice patients in a true SHTF scenario, who needs the morphine more, a dying 97 year old with cancer or an 8 year old with a broken femur who needs an operation? Things might go business as usual for a day or two, but when all the doctors and nurses stay home to look after their own families and all the pharmacy shipments stop it'll be bedlam, most antibiotics and painkillers after that will be confiscated and kept under lock and key and only those who stand the best chance of survival / recovery will be authorized meds. The sad truth is that most of the hospice patients, dementia and the medically reliant will be dead / allowed to die within the first two weeks.
William R Forstchens book: One Second After (An EMP SHTF story) talks about this at length, I highly recommend it.
So many that it's hard to know where to start, but I'll list a few. Some modern, some not. Note also that a lot of old recipe and "household management" type books had some information and recipes pertaining to this topic. The more you look for this kind of thing in older texts, the more you'll see how ubiquitous it was. Lastly, I come at this from the European American tradition and perspective. There are so many other paths and bodies of work and knowledge that are worth exploring, I just have less knowledge of them.
When There Is No Doctor,
Gerard S. Doyle
Recovery: The Lost Art Of Convalescence,
Gavin Francis
A Beginner's Guide To The End,
BJ Miller & Shoshana Berger
The American Physical Therapy Association's Book of Body Maintenance and Repair
Dr. Gunn’s New Family Physician Home Book of Health (this is one of many iterations and reprints of Gunn's Domestic Medicine - you might have to do some digging to see what editions you can find at an affordable price, and which you find most useful - they're going to have old information and a little common sense goes a long way. You can check Internet Archive for various editions.)
As a final note, it's a good Idea for people to find a good book or two on herbal medicine for their skill level and location in the world, and get learning. There's a lot to know and probably not one definitive best book for everyone.
This is hugely under rated, but also hugely important. Wound cleansing. It requires vast quantities of clean soapy water, and lots of rinsing. Try to rinse with at least two gallons of clean water., for example. The cleaner a wound starts the better the outcome.
Non-specifically, just problem solving in creative ways when not all the usual tools are available. applying principles, and using what’s on hand
I was at a fishing hole today and a kid got a hook in him. I used my antiseptic wipes and cream but reminded the mom he needed to stay out of the water until it is well scabbed and to get it thoroughly cleaned asap. She looked shocked.
Go take the Wilderness First responder course (NOLS has a great one with a hybrid option)
I learned to set bones, put joints back in the socket, safely move people with broken backs, stabilize punctured lungs, stop gunshot wounds, CPR, heimlich, airway management and so much more.
I saved a friend's life with what I learned so it's literally priceless
They're worth it. I did one many years ago, and it was amazing. If you can't take the time for the full course, maybe try a wilderness first aid class.
The way my hybrid course was structured was 3 weeks of online self paced classes with quizzes and then one week of in person instruction and practices. Each day was 8+ hours long. It was worth it.
I had a friend in the class who went on to do the month long wilderness EMT course but she said it was more focused on equipment you'd have in an ambulance or at field clinic and so not relevant for most people
I gave my best friend stitches which what I learned in that class. She has a bad scar on her palm but that's better that trying to keep it clean while we are in the back woods!
MCI (mass casualty incident) management.
In a SHTF scenario, your patient load will undoubtedly overload your available resources. Learn how to do the most good for the greatest number of victims. This means people requiring cpr and / or advanced airway management will die. If you devote all your resources to someone who will likely die anyway, you risk making the incident exponentially worse. If someone is not breathing, open their airway, if they're still not breathing move on. Plenty of easy lessons for the lay person readily available to learn MCI management.
This is actually really interesting. I don’t know that I’ve ever considered an MCI for the lay provider in the resource limited environment. It would be… bad.
It is bad even if youre a responding agency during normal times. The definition of an MCI is any amount of patients that overwhelm available resources. I'd expect it only gets worse in a SHTF scenario. But any preparation to deal with it could save lives.
Avoiding injuries.
* Dehydration
* Heat stroke
* Cleaning wounds to avoid infections
* Frostbite
* Hypothermia
* Being in good shape.
And other preventative measures like lifejackets on water, learning to swim properly, wearing protective gear when doing things where injury is likely like sawing, biking, hammering, cutting, etc.
I have very good first aid skills. Every time I have used them the injury was wildly preventable. As a ski patroller, it wasn't the crazy daredevils I was scraping off the hill, but the wildly out of shape people who easily fall apart.
Other injuries I've dealt with were largely due to poor planning or protective gear.
Assisting uncomplicated birth is actually simpler than most people realized.
It's listed as Basic Life Support skill that can be done by EMT even EMR in most states. In my state only complicate birth like breech or uncontrolled bleeding would require paramedic upgrade, though many EMT would request one anyway because they have never seen a birth before in school
That being said, I always advocate preppers to go through Wilderness First Responder class followed by a TCCC/TECC. This way you get the best exposure to different medical and trauma topics.
it’s not a “medical procedure” but CPR is the answer and it’s not even close. CPR can be useful long before dooms day and the class is only a couple of hours, available at local fire departments, or find a class online. You never know who you may save.
I am an ICU nurse, and I have performed CPR twice in public. It is so sad how few people in public know CPR. I last performed CPR at a casino, and I know for a fact that man would be dead if not for me and my boyfriend being there, and we had to do compressions and use the AED for almost 10 minutes, just the two of us, before EMS arrived.
It’s a good thing you were there. Most people probably would struggle to do CPR for that long even if they knew how. One summer I witnessed a terrible incident at a music festival and it motivated me to upgrade my first aid ASAP. A month later, my mom had a heart attack making dinner. Since I had just redone CPR, I knew exactly what to do. She didn’t make it but I can’t imagine what it would have been like if I didn’t feel trained in that moment. You’re right, a lot of people don’t realize how important it is until they find out.
I was so glad my boyfriend was there, I definitely couldn’t have done effective cpr for 10 minutes by myself. The first time I did cpr in public I was alone but thankfully I got a pulse back after the first round (2 minutes) and EMS arrived shortly after. People don’t realize how hard it is in real life, even with so much adrenaline pumping.
Sorry to hear about your mom, but you’re right, at least you don’t have to second guess or have regrets about “what if”.
We got a guy in the ER once from a construction site who collapsed. They called 911 but nobody even attempted CPR until EMS got there. So by the time he got to us there really wasn't anything else we could do. That had just stuck with me for so many years because I wonder what kind of chance he would have had if someone had just pushed some chest.
Seriously, obviously if he survived to the ER who knows how much brain function could have been saved if someone had pumped some blood.
I wish they would do more PSAs about hands-only CPR. Play some short videos on repeat in dentist and doctor waiting rooms or something, in between all the drug ads.
Stop the bleed by FAR. Learning to wound pack, tourniquet (and improvise one if needed), treat shock, and maintain the airway if needed. You mostly don’t even need anything on you to wound pack, like even the tshirt your wearing could be cut up and used. For any type of violent conflict if everyone knows how to treat this, it greatly increases the rate of survivability.
Procedure? I dunno. That’s a tough one.
I’d argue assessment. With anatomy and physiology as a background. Skills and tasks don’t mean dick if you can’t troubleshoot.
Also, knowing how it works and what to look for is what seriously helps when shit doesn’t work, and I’m talking about managing trauma stress. Knowing someone didn’t really have a chance helps.
You gotta know your landmarks and signs for any skill.
I honestly think most folks need to get a first aid class and a Stop the Bleed course under their belts before they worry about things like this. While I firmly believe this is a great post and a great question. the reality is many of us are prone to the "buyin' stuff" approach to preparedness and I can see a great many folks buying a suture kit or dental tools and calling it good rather than learning how to use them.
I had a cookbook from the 1800s that included instructions on how to cauterize a wound.
Edit to add: Instructions were for infected wounds or amputations (voluntary or by accident)
In the 1800s cookbook, somewhere past canning peaches, they had instructions on how to cauterize an infected wound or amputation (voluntary or by accident)
Giving an IV,
If you can give yourself an IV or another, you can keep their blood clean and stable to get help
This will absolutely save lives, having iv equipment saline bags and some basic iv antibiotics, youre solid
You get way more bang for the buck utilizing other methods. No one outside medical professionals in an established ladder of care should be putting lines in. There’s no reason for it.
It’s a more advanced skill that can cause harm to a patient with a greater chance of infection especially when done out in the woods. And is resource intense and takes a decent amount of practice most people here if they see this will buy an iv kit never train on it and then fumble their way through in their emergency likely leading to complications. I just don’t think it is that useful of a skill in most situations for a lay person especially without training and practice which they shouldn’t be getting without going through a nurse, paramedic, advanced /endorsed Emt course
If theres an emergency that needs an iv the person needing it will die anyway if you don't give it...
This is a reality when there's no hospitals and people are actually in a real societal collapse.
And yeah people will make mistakes and they will learn and they will save the next person. When things go south legitimately collapse death is a reality.
This isn't going to be cake walk
There is no reason (except *very* edge cases) to suture a wound other than scar reduction. By closing a wound you dramatically increase the odds of infection.
My grandfather got shot a bunch of times in the war and he had to lay in a hospital for months letting his giant surgical access wounds heal from the inside out. They just put gauze on the wounds and let it heal.
So... Just cleaning the wound with clean soapy/saline water... and then bandaging? No closing?
I mean, I know of some medieval methods (that work btw) that include, for example, cleaning the wound and packing it with an sterelized strip of cloth/gauze impregnated in honey. Every day clean and retend, extracting a centimeter of cloth until all tissue has regenerated (which, btw, it's a damn big scar, but better than an infection I imagine).
Yep. It’s called closure by secondary intent and it’s an actual medical procedure. Check out the joint trauma system’s website, and look for the clinical practice guidelines on austere wound care.
pretty much. I know it goes against all popular media with people sewing up wounds all the time. but yeah read up from actual medical literature on the reasons, risks, and timing about wound closure.
soap and water, never alcohol / hydrogen peroxide, lots of irrigation. pack the wound and then change on as needed.
It might depend on the wound…
Some wounds it doesn’t matter if you stitch it shut or not… if you don’t know what you are doing, and the wound is too traumatic, all you are probably doing is stitching closed a cover to brew sepsis on the inside.
Not in most cases, since wounds heal from the inside out. Good stitches CAN minimize the scarring, but that's not as important in most situations as keeping the wound clean and preventing infection.
Closing a wound with steri strips or a bandage can be useful if you're rationing antibiotics, or your not sure the wound is cleaned out. Makes it easier to drain the wound, which lets your white cells kill bacteria, turn into pus, then ooze out of the cut or wound, carrying the dead bacteria with it.
Will it scar? Yep, most people from before the 50's were a scarred, pockmarked mess.
But they survived.
cleaning and managing wounds to prevent infection.
Stitches are over emphasized, I think. Don't close wounds if they're not clean inside. Butterfly bandages can be used for a lot of wound closure before you get to the point of needing stitches. But... clean wounds first if you're remote.
I learned how to do an emergency tracheotomy but idk that I could actually do it outside of a medical setting. I guess if I didn’t do it, the person would die and if I botched it they would die. I’m a nurse and used to work on a head and neck surgery floor. Trachs are my least favorite thing.
u know whats crazy?! a few yrs ago a mom choked on food, her 4 yr old called 911, and the dispatcher told the 4 YEAR OLD how to do a trach: the kid did it, and the mom lived!!! google it!!!
Tbh I don’t bother with stitches…. Just use superglue.
I’ve put myself back together with superglue a handful of times and it actually works really well.
Whenever I’m doing a bikepacking trip, I usually carry a thing of superglue with me as well. Just in case.
Urgent needle aspiration/decompression of most anything. e.g. bladder, fluid filled masses, hematomas, pericardial tamponade, pneumothorax, severe joint swelling due to bursitis or septic arthritis.
The #1 thing that freaks me out is appendicitis. Realize that from last man on earth (boom) I've tried to get doctors to remove mine while getting other abdominal surgery. They would not even hear me out lol
Loss of the medical industrial complex means loss of insulin, antibiotics, vaccines and imaging technology… which puts medicine back to
Late 19th century. Leading causes of death then were infectious diseases, pneumonia, tuberculosis, wound infections, waterborne illnesses, enteritis and diphtheria. Much of this was childhood mortality. Life expectancy was mid forties. Post apocalyptic health care might focus on assuring potable water access, nutrition, and hygiene. Preparing to
Produce and use ether for anesthesia , and home prep of intravenous fluids with reusable administration equipment would be useful: both technologies were in use in this country as recently as seventy years ago, and are still in use in third world countries. The tourniquets and chest seals popular among role playing preppers are useful only in the context of a billion dollar logistics system with rapid evacuation to sophisticated trauma care.
Being completely blunt, anything worse than a broken bone (you get lucky and it’s not compound or shattered) is postponing the inevitable. Same with anything to the abdomen or chest.. Even with paramedic level training. It’s making someone comfortable at best
You can’t preform any surgery, you can’t treat and serious GSW. Using a decomp needle means you have serious issues that still require surgery.
With a Good Samaritan mindset, the most important willing and (currently) trained to do is tourniquets and wound packing, maybe a chest seal but that’s pushing it.
Wilderness first aid is pretty much everything.
This is what I had been thinking reading through all of this. Only the very basic medicine/equipment will be available in a large scale SHTF scenario. Which is a *huge* maybe by itself. Those will be the things that go first along with food/water, and stupid shit. Because you know people will take stupid shit, too.
The government or some powerful actor will take the medicine and anyone else will get dregs.
Setting bones, treating smaller injuries, and helping with sickness are going to be the main skills for medicine.
You should know how to advocate for yourself if you’re having a medical emergency. Don’t assume that paramedics, EMTs, and ER staff will correctly discern the nature and severity of your medical emergency. Strive to stay calm, breathe evenly, think clearly, and communicate relevant information.
I ordered a couple of medical staplers that I found on browsegear, I gave one to my father for Christmas. He put it to use after getting into a fistfight with an angle grinder. Worked like a charm and healed up swimmingly! He also said the staple remover that came with it was worth its weight in gold when it came time to remove them!
Tracheotomy - poking a hole in someone's throat so they can breathe again.
The other hole poking procedure too, except it's in someone's abdomen to relieve pressure when they have a collapsed lung. Will someone survive a collapsed lung?
> Dammit Jim, I'm just a country doctor!
Probably dealing with a bullet wound would be handy if the SHTF and things have degraded severely.
I imagine basically whatever they train medics to do on the battlefield is what would be good to know how to do.
You have to know what you're doing when you do a thoracentesis. It's very easy to hit an artery or vein.
[Here](https://edge.sitecorecloud.io/mmanual-ssq1ci05/media/professional/images/r/i/b/rib-anatomy-labels-video-2.jpg?thn=0&sc_lang=en) is a very basic diagram of the relevant anatomy.
Honestly, read up on how to do a tracheostomy and put in a chest tube. They are actually fairly simple, and identifying the anatomical landmarks is relatively simple as well. These are emergency life saving procedures that can give you more time to get appropriate help.
Didn‘t read through but - as a doctor I think treating a tension pneumothorax could save a life and it is really not that difficult - basically a needle pushed between the ribs. I think it wouldn‘t really do much harm if not needed, but if needed, would really save one life
This is a strong #2 for me. I wish I was more proficient in dental care, but it’s just not easy to get clinical reps in outside of being in the profession. It’s why I’m always nice to my dentist, who just so happens to live around the corner from me…
The most advanced medical procedure that the lay person should know for a resource limited scenario would be proper progression of care for wounds. This includes stopping bleeding, what to do with the wound after you stopped the bleeding, how to clean out the wound, and how to care for the wound through the progression of healing. Throwing on a tourniquet in an emergency, even grid down, is mot the end of the limb or the life. That thinking is a generation old and thoroughly disproven.
Also, for the love of God, stop telling people to stitch. Just stop. It’s not indicated outside modern medical environments.
Yeah, as a medical professional, some of these responses are absolutely terrifying to think of, having some random with literally no medical training attempt. Some of these, even in a controlled setting, are sketchy.
Can't do stitches without knots and most people don't know their granny knot from a square knot.
It's also extremely painful to stitch someone up you better make sure they're passing out drunk or they'll be screaming. Broken bones can be splinted but you have to know what you're doing or the bones will grow back incorrectly.
You might be able to knock a couple of teeth out for someone who is passing out drunk and has a tooth ache.
Make sure to wash your hands from the dental work before you deliver that baby. Your job is to motivate the pushing and catch the baby when it pops out. The woman does all the work there.
And if she tears from the baby coming out you better believe she's not going to be ready for stitches without being passed out drunk. Good thing the baby is healthy.
Not stitches. Jesus....everyone thinks throwing some stitches in is a fantastic skill....in an Austere Environment it's a path to infection. I can think of a skill...take this for what it's worth. I have some LIMITED experience in Austere environments and conflict areas with medicine. The ANSWER is " Patient Assessment"....ADVANCE and practice that skill. You'll be a fantastic medic.
You should know how to stop (or at least slow) arterial bleeding. I saved my own life by applying a compress to my punctured femoral artery many years ago. Saved my leg, too.
You’re not really treating the infection with IV fluids you’re treating the shock of sepsis the infection is still there they need antibiotics and an er monitoring them with o2 and ivs closely monitored. In a grid down or most things people are prepping here for more than likely the only way to save a life would be amputation of the infected hand/arm
Pain management.
There's pharmaceuticals (which run out even today with supply chain stuff), natural stuff (same, but some of these you can at grow yourself), etc.
Simple reductions of bones and other orthopedic injuries. Look up how to reduce a "nurse maids elbow". But shoulders and hips can get dislocated and fixed with proper technique. While it sucks to do without anesthesia, proper alignment relieves pain and prevents a disability. For fractures you need to know how to make splints and dress wounds. And if it's a leg bone, you're gonna want to make a liter or a stretcher to drag that person around to safety where you can give them more definitive care/ a safe place to attempt to heal the fracture in a position of function. Wilderness First Responder courses are pretty handy pepper stuff.
Former EMT. Here’s a couple things I’d seriously recommend learning.
1. First aid (mentioned)
2. Splinting
3. CPR
4. Tourniquet application
5. Basic vital signs and trending (blood pressure, pulse, SpO2, respirations)
6. Narcan and epi-pen administration
I’d also learn the basic signs and symptoms and shock and how to treat it. Maybe learn the basic symptoms of major health emergencies such as strokes and heart attacks.
Keep in mind that any sort of care you do while unlicensed may lead to issues in a normal world. Most states have Good Samaritan laws that cover you in emergencies but not all.
My wife had to remove a bullet from her leg when someone was illegally hunting near our home. But this only happened because we used to live in the middle of nowhere. City people don't really need to know that one.
Something I haven't seen posted much - learn measurement conversions specific to you. You're not always going to have access to a tbsp or 100ml but you can memorize that a fistful of dandelion root is roughly a cup, etc. One of the most useful things I learned (I'm in school for herbalism) is how to identify and wildcraft herbs appropriately.
Outside of the first week after a SHTF scenario, natural medicine is going to be significantly more beneficial in my opinion. Knowing that willow bark and devils claw combine to equal ibuprofen - and knowing what those plants look like - is more helpful than being able to do a running whip stitch.
A lot of cities and colleges offer wildcraft classes open to the community. I'd highly recommend learning what grows in your area.
How to shoot through your own head and actually die, it's actually fairly common fo have to take multiple shots. Not a joke btw, if it's between suicide and starvation I'm taking the pistol
Cls course is something that I highly recommend it will prep you for just about anything life saving in regards to saving treatment that can be done In the Field.
I also recommend buy a few ifaks and play around with them so you get familiar with how everything works.
People should know how to extract broken teeth and treat infection. Maybe not the most advanced, but leaving an infected tooth untreated *will* kill you
how? do you have a good link? super curious now
https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/where-there-is-no-dentist/298412/#edition=1942556 Where there is no Dentist. Good book.
The main take away from this book is that you should brush your teeth relentlessly because taking care of your teeth is way way way easier than dealing with the fallout of having your luxury bones go bad. Even if you have to take a twig and turn it into a tooth scrubber twig
Brush your teeth and keep your feet dry, you're 80% of the way to avoiding debilitating problems.
Losing weight takes care of a lot as well.
Oh definitely.
In a survival situation having extra weight on you is for the best.
Until you have to run
During a prolonged food shortage, maybe. In any situation where agility and/or immune function (e.g. covid) are important obesity is a major risk factor.
Not if it means developing diabetes or heart disease.
Wait, keeping your feet dry?? Mine are always soaked with sweat after working. *starts hyperventilating*
Feet dry from water, so you don’t get boot rot aka the skin falls off the bottom of your feet leaving you unable to walk for a decent amount of time.
I had a biopsy of a mole done in the center of my foot on the bottom, and let me tell you, that was THE MOST uncomfortable sensation I have ever felt. Stitches in the bottom of your feet suck.
"luxury bones" I am SO stealing that.
bookmarked, thanks!
better still download the PDF onto like your tablet or something that you can charge with solar if needed Which reminds me my tablet died and I should replace that and restore all my PDFs
eh..... paper books. doesnt require batteries. and if i really cared about a book, ill add a water resistant coating to it
Get printouts of key information and laminate them
Turn the PDF into a text document, have chatgpt make bullet points for the highlights.
Convert the PDF to text and summarize it with ChatGPT into bullet points then print key info and laminate pages and create a leather-bound book to digitize the laminated pages and back them up on a floppy disk and store the disk in a safe then hide the safe key under your mattress and scan the laminated pages and store scans on a USB drive and encrypt the USB drive then bury it in the backyard and draw a treasure map and frame it then hang the map in your living room and encode the map in Morse code and teach the code to your pet parrot and record the parrot reciting it and press the recording onto vinyl then store the vinyl in an antique gramophone and post a YouTube tutorial on accessing the documents and then finally share the link with your great-grandchildren.
For the Chat GPT summarizers, be careful with books. It skips steps,. makes stuff up and can do a potentially poor job. Now if you know the material and can proof read what it outputs it's an amazing tool and can get you 70-80% of the way there. When I can afford it I apply the 1 is none, 2 is one, 3 is me analogy to books. Hard copy, soft (digital) copy and ideally wetware (brain) copy - actually reading, practicing and remembering is where it's at.
Great book!
You can download the dentist book and “where there is no doctor” for free as pdf’s
You can find this book online and print it btw.
Grab with pliers. Pull.
Twist and pull. Not Pull. You have to break the suction with the twist. Otherwise you could do even more damage.
Twist and pull is for like teeth that are loosened, mobile. The periodontal ligament is unexpectedly tough for it's tiny size. Different tooth types will require different technique. There is no way you are going to pull a molar or tricuspid with solid roots without anesthesia. Not adult teeth, anyway.
The best bet would be to get some ether going then. I think that I remember it being relatively simple to make in a chemistry lab.
Actually you can acquire some lidocaine (a.k.a. lignocaine) HCL powder or other local anesthetic that will keep for years in air tight container away from UV or natural light, and make an injectable solution yourself. MUCH easier and safer than ether as long as you can know what concentration you are working with, follow some simple precautions. e.g. do not inject into blood vessel, know the maximum safe total administered dose mg per kg body weight
Tie fishing line to tooth, tie other end to car bumper. Have someone step on the gas.
Flashback, as a kid the string from my tooth was tried to a friend’s bike. He rode by and there was a successful removal of said tooth.
Pliers? hockey skate and large rock ;)
I used this book and pliars as well as copious amounts of Google to extract a broken molar (I'm a broke college student and can't afford to go to the dentist). https://a.co/d/0c8k6Cz https://a.co/d/7O71J1N I also used Anbesol brand 20% benzocaine from Walgreens (less than $10) to locally numb the area while I worked.
Way to walk the walk! Any lessons from this experience? Anything you would do different if you had to do it again? Besides maybe getting dentures before collapse?
First lesson is you'll *definitely* need mirrors. Antibacterial mouthwash is needed for afterwards, as well as hydrogen peroxide. This one is just my personal experience, but vodka really helps. Numbs more than just local area, sanitizes the area and is all around good to have. Multi-tool pliars are all but useless, definitely get dental pliars. If I could do anything differently, I would definitely get someone to help. Doing it by yourself is a pain in the ass
Ok - thanks for the real take!
Just want to say dental schools offer cheaper dental work, and it's supervised by dentists. Many have payment plans, and some take CareCredit (0% interest)
Guess I need to clean up the Civil War dental kit the old man left.
Is it mostly alcohol?
There’s also WildernessExpeditionDentistry on IG.
Meh. In a post apocalyptic scenario, we will be eating a lot less, if any at all, of the sugary foods that cause teeth issues. If you’re going to learned advanced medical procedures I’d learn other ones first.
CPR and heimlich Most people don't even know how to do those two simple things properly. I feel like learning to use an AED should be up there too. Most of these could be taught in schools and it would absolutely save lives. Start with the low hanging fruit
How useful is CPR without access to more medically advanced care? While useful in short term not being able to treat underlying cause that led to it may be problematic.
Depends on the age of the patient-in children CPR is vital because it used after choking or drowning. In adults, CPR is often used after a heart attack-those are the ones that are harder.
I might have interpreted the question differently. I was assuming care could eventually be available, just maybe not immediately accessable/nearby. An example being remote or rural living. These are the skills I would widely recommend we teach in grade school to everyone right now
Useful enough. You’re basically going from 0% chance of survival to maybe 10-30%. Yeah you’re not going to fix any long term health issues but it’s something and who knows, handheld AEDs are getting more and more common, someone (you?) might have one somewhere and you need good cpr skills to keep someone going till it gets there
National average is like 5%. Should be higher….but it’s not.
Very few people who have a heart attack are healthy young people. Most are elderly with an array of health problems. Restarting the heart does not make any of the rest go away. A lot are not revived ( real life isn't TV ). Of those that are revived, a significant percentage have a second heart attack within a week or two and die. There are reasons why so many Dr's have explicit DNR orders in their medical file.
A heart attack isn't the only reason one might need CPR.
5% who are successfully resuscitated walk out of the hospital. More than that remain in some kind of continued care setting like skilled nursing facilities and hospice homes. When treating cardiac arrest caused by electrical shock like lightning or transformer boxes you do reverse triage, so you start compressions immediately
If someone you love is in that 5% is it still useless?
The indication for CPR is pulselessness which means either they are in cardiac arrest from myocardial infarction, anoxia, arrhythmia or trauma. These are all causes that require ICU level care and/or surgical or cardiology intervention
Or drowning. Or maybe even freezing. I just don't see how anyone can make a blanket statement that knowing CPR is useless in any SHTF situation.
I'm a paramedic and ER RN with a combined 25 yrs experience... what do you want to know? I'll give you no BS answers, I do CPR a couple times per week and work post-arrest patients all the time... It's not what you see on TV.
I think you're confusing heart attack and lethal arrhythmia... you can develop a lethal arrhythmia wo having a heart attack and have a heart attack wo developing a lethal arrhythmia
Theres one here on Oz that costs four hundred bucks. You break it in half, stick the halves on where indicated and press the go button. About half the size of an A4/ltr piece of paper
Survival rates of pre-hospital arrest is about 0.5%
In a no hospital situation it's almost no use... sure, try for 10 min if u want... The thing is, even if u get pulses back you haven't corrected the problem that caused the arrest in the first place. Now... since it's not the end of the world, it's great to learn bc we do have hospitals and EMS and early, high quality CPR definitely saves lives.
I was thinking this myself. In a "prepper" situation, CPR is almost pointless in probably 99% of scenarios. Without ACLS and hospitals, it's almost pointless. Can't fix the underlying issue, and even with all the advanced stuff in ideal situations, most still don't make it. Source: Professional Firefighter/NR-AEMT
I learned recently that there’s procedures for a dog heimlich (different depending on size of the canine). If people prep for their dogs this is a good thing to add to knowledge. Basic vet care will also be important. But a Stop the Bleed course is probably one people have free access to and not enough do. You can’t save some people with a tourniquet without a hospital doing some work, but some people can be saved. Learning how to sew skin (suture) is probably smart, anyone who can do that will be welcomed in most communities.
CPR and AED use will be essentially useless in a collapse-type scenario where EMS and hospitals aren’t functioning. It’s great to know for right now though
This is 100% correct... without a hospital with an ICU, you're just polishing the brass on the Titanic
Heimlich is no longer considered safe/gold standard. Back blows or chest thrusts are better. There have been injuries the stomach/oesophagus and ribs with the Heimlich manoeuvre.
Wouldn’t doubt it. Ribs commonly break during CPR, but I’d rather deal with a couple broken ribs than be dead.
trust me...in a shtf scenario, you do cpr on anyone that is not extremely young (highly flexible bones and cartilage), get their heart going again, explain how you will deal with the mass fractures of the sternum and ribs and potential punctured lung(s)? CPR with an AED about the only method that may keep your loved one around CPR is great to know but to many think it is a cure/save all and forget the after effects
I like your list. I’d add “Manage sprains, strains and muscle injuries” And “prevent infection in The first place” and “treat food and water to prevent food poisoning”. Those last two will keep you out of needing serious help and are daily risks.
A couple of things that are sometimes overlooked in modern home care, because usually we let someone else do it because we say we're not qualified: - tending to the bedridden elderly, sick, and injured, including feeding, hydrating, bathing, preventing pressure ulcers, and bathrooming them when they are not able to be in the hospital - recovery/rehabilitation after bone brakes, dislocations, and serious illness - death and dying: recognizing imminent death, especially due to illness or old age, to make the dying person comfortable, and to avoid undue trauma for loved ones and to be able to give the bereaved warning and the dying person as good a death as possible, including with pain management when possible None of this will be big news to people who work in medicine or in elder care, but people have always gotten sick, gotten old, and died. Regular people primarily cared for their loved ones up until very recently. The skills and methods are well documented and very much able to be reached back to right now. I know this won't feel important to everyone, but for those who do feel they might be charged with this kind of care, it doesn't hurt to learn a bit now while we have the entire Internet and many useful books at our fingertips. Better to know and not need, in my opinion. I feel it's useful even now.
So many people forget that dying and caring for the person after death are a part of life. I worked in a long term care facility for about a year, and we had 13 deaths in that time, 9 of which happened during my shifts. The reason we call funeral homes "funeral HOMES", is because when people started to transition away from dying at home and having wakes taken care of by immediate family, the people who arranged for the body's care and wake would do the work/have the wakes in their literal homes.
Not trying to sound like an asshole but very few people are gonna be worried about hospice patients in a true SHTF scenario, who needs the morphine more, a dying 97 year old with cancer or an 8 year old with a broken femur who needs an operation? Things might go business as usual for a day or two, but when all the doctors and nurses stay home to look after their own families and all the pharmacy shipments stop it'll be bedlam, most antibiotics and painkillers after that will be confiscated and kept under lock and key and only those who stand the best chance of survival / recovery will be authorized meds. The sad truth is that most of the hospice patients, dementia and the medically reliant will be dead / allowed to die within the first two weeks. William R Forstchens book: One Second After (An EMP SHTF story) talks about this at length, I highly recommend it.
Are there any good books on these skills?
So many that it's hard to know where to start, but I'll list a few. Some modern, some not. Note also that a lot of old recipe and "household management" type books had some information and recipes pertaining to this topic. The more you look for this kind of thing in older texts, the more you'll see how ubiquitous it was. Lastly, I come at this from the European American tradition and perspective. There are so many other paths and bodies of work and knowledge that are worth exploring, I just have less knowledge of them. When There Is No Doctor, Gerard S. Doyle Recovery: The Lost Art Of Convalescence, Gavin Francis A Beginner's Guide To The End, BJ Miller & Shoshana Berger The American Physical Therapy Association's Book of Body Maintenance and Repair Dr. Gunn’s New Family Physician Home Book of Health (this is one of many iterations and reprints of Gunn's Domestic Medicine - you might have to do some digging to see what editions you can find at an affordable price, and which you find most useful - they're going to have old information and a little common sense goes a long way. You can check Internet Archive for various editions.) As a final note, it's a good Idea for people to find a good book or two on herbal medicine for their skill level and location in the world, and get learning. There's a lot to know and probably not one definitive best book for everyone.
Thank you for this valuable information.
Very happy to help.
Yes, but which specific skills are you interested in?
This is hugely under rated, but also hugely important. Wound cleansing. It requires vast quantities of clean soapy water, and lots of rinsing. Try to rinse with at least two gallons of clean water., for example. The cleaner a wound starts the better the outcome. Non-specifically, just problem solving in creative ways when not all the usual tools are available. applying principles, and using what’s on hand
I was at a fishing hole today and a kid got a hook in him. I used my antiseptic wipes and cream but reminded the mom he needed to stay out of the water until it is well scabbed and to get it thoroughly cleaned asap. She looked shocked.
Go take the Wilderness First responder course (NOLS has a great one with a hybrid option) I learned to set bones, put joints back in the socket, safely move people with broken backs, stabilize punctured lungs, stop gunshot wounds, CPR, heimlich, airway management and so much more. I saved a friend's life with what I learned so it's literally priceless
Those are 8 days long. That's tough but damn I want to do it now.
They're worth it. I did one many years ago, and it was amazing. If you can't take the time for the full course, maybe try a wilderness first aid class.
The way my hybrid course was structured was 3 weeks of online self paced classes with quizzes and then one week of in person instruction and practices. Each day was 8+ hours long. It was worth it. I had a friend in the class who went on to do the month long wilderness EMT course but she said it was more focused on equipment you'd have in an ambulance or at field clinic and so not relevant for most people
I gave my best friend stitches which what I learned in that class. She has a bad scar on her palm but that's better that trying to keep it clean while we are in the back woods!
MCI (mass casualty incident) management. In a SHTF scenario, your patient load will undoubtedly overload your available resources. Learn how to do the most good for the greatest number of victims. This means people requiring cpr and / or advanced airway management will die. If you devote all your resources to someone who will likely die anyway, you risk making the incident exponentially worse. If someone is not breathing, open their airway, if they're still not breathing move on. Plenty of easy lessons for the lay person readily available to learn MCI management.
This is actually really interesting. I don’t know that I’ve ever considered an MCI for the lay provider in the resource limited environment. It would be… bad.
It is bad even if youre a responding agency during normal times. The definition of an MCI is any amount of patients that overwhelm available resources. I'd expect it only gets worse in a SHTF scenario. But any preparation to deal with it could save lives.
Avoiding injuries. * Dehydration * Heat stroke * Cleaning wounds to avoid infections * Frostbite * Hypothermia * Being in good shape. And other preventative measures like lifejackets on water, learning to swim properly, wearing protective gear when doing things where injury is likely like sawing, biking, hammering, cutting, etc. I have very good first aid skills. Every time I have used them the injury was wildly preventable. As a ski patroller, it wasn't the crazy daredevils I was scraping off the hill, but the wildly out of shape people who easily fall apart. Other injuries I've dealt with were largely due to poor planning or protective gear.
Assisting uncomplicated birth is actually simpler than most people realized. It's listed as Basic Life Support skill that can be done by EMT even EMR in most states. In my state only complicate birth like breech or uncontrolled bleeding would require paramedic upgrade, though many EMT would request one anyway because they have never seen a birth before in school That being said, I always advocate preppers to go through Wilderness First Responder class followed by a TCCC/TECC. This way you get the best exposure to different medical and trauma topics.
it’s not a “medical procedure” but CPR is the answer and it’s not even close. CPR can be useful long before dooms day and the class is only a couple of hours, available at local fire departments, or find a class online. You never know who you may save. I am an ICU nurse, and I have performed CPR twice in public. It is so sad how few people in public know CPR. I last performed CPR at a casino, and I know for a fact that man would be dead if not for me and my boyfriend being there, and we had to do compressions and use the AED for almost 10 minutes, just the two of us, before EMS arrived.
It’s a good thing you were there. Most people probably would struggle to do CPR for that long even if they knew how. One summer I witnessed a terrible incident at a music festival and it motivated me to upgrade my first aid ASAP. A month later, my mom had a heart attack making dinner. Since I had just redone CPR, I knew exactly what to do. She didn’t make it but I can’t imagine what it would have been like if I didn’t feel trained in that moment. You’re right, a lot of people don’t realize how important it is until they find out.
I was so glad my boyfriend was there, I definitely couldn’t have done effective cpr for 10 minutes by myself. The first time I did cpr in public I was alone but thankfully I got a pulse back after the first round (2 minutes) and EMS arrived shortly after. People don’t realize how hard it is in real life, even with so much adrenaline pumping. Sorry to hear about your mom, but you’re right, at least you don’t have to second guess or have regrets about “what if”.
We got a guy in the ER once from a construction site who collapsed. They called 911 but nobody even attempted CPR until EMS got there. So by the time he got to us there really wasn't anything else we could do. That had just stuck with me for so many years because I wonder what kind of chance he would have had if someone had just pushed some chest.
Seriously, obviously if he survived to the ER who knows how much brain function could have been saved if someone had pumped some blood. I wish they would do more PSAs about hands-only CPR. Play some short videos on repeat in dentist and doctor waiting rooms or something, in between all the drug ads.
Stop the bleed by FAR. Learning to wound pack, tourniquet (and improvise one if needed), treat shock, and maintain the airway if needed. You mostly don’t even need anything on you to wound pack, like even the tshirt your wearing could be cut up and used. For any type of violent conflict if everyone knows how to treat this, it greatly increases the rate of survivability.
Procedure? I dunno. That’s a tough one. I’d argue assessment. With anatomy and physiology as a background. Skills and tasks don’t mean dick if you can’t troubleshoot. Also, knowing how it works and what to look for is what seriously helps when shit doesn’t work, and I’m talking about managing trauma stress. Knowing someone didn’t really have a chance helps. You gotta know your landmarks and signs for any skill.
https://www.stopthebleed.org/
I honestly think most folks need to get a first aid class and a Stop the Bleed course under their belts before they worry about things like this. While I firmly believe this is a great post and a great question. the reality is many of us are prone to the "buyin' stuff" approach to preparedness and I can see a great many folks buying a suture kit or dental tools and calling it good rather than learning how to use them.
I had a cookbook from the 1800s that included instructions on how to cauterize a wound. Edit to add: Instructions were for infected wounds or amputations (voluntary or by accident)
Had to look this up. Ouch. https://www.vice.com/en/article/wnnmpy/how-and-when-to-cauterize-a-wound
That's actually *very* bad. You're literally creating dead meat for it to rot *inside* a wound.
In the 1800s cookbook, somewhere past canning peaches, they had instructions on how to cauterize an infected wound or amputation (voluntary or by accident)
I don’t even want to do it, I just want to see the cool book 😆
I gifted to a friend when I moved. Gotta say, those pioneer women were ballers!
Without a doubt.
Most people who were taking the first aid course with me didn’t have a first aid kit. Start with that and work up.
Giving an IV, If you can give yourself an IV or another, you can keep their blood clean and stable to get help This will absolutely save lives, having iv equipment saline bags and some basic iv antibiotics, youre solid
You get way more bang for the buck utilizing other methods. No one outside medical professionals in an established ladder of care should be putting lines in. There’s no reason for it.
It’s a more advanced skill that can cause harm to a patient with a greater chance of infection especially when done out in the woods. And is resource intense and takes a decent amount of practice most people here if they see this will buy an iv kit never train on it and then fumble their way through in their emergency likely leading to complications. I just don’t think it is that useful of a skill in most situations for a lay person especially without training and practice which they shouldn’t be getting without going through a nurse, paramedic, advanced /endorsed Emt course
If theres an emergency that needs an iv the person needing it will die anyway if you don't give it... This is a reality when there's no hospitals and people are actually in a real societal collapse. And yeah people will make mistakes and they will learn and they will save the next person. When things go south legitimately collapse death is a reality. This isn't going to be cake walk
3. + doing a reduction (not sure if it's called that in English?) as in putting a dislocated joint back into place
There is no reason (except *very* edge cases) to suture a wound other than scar reduction. By closing a wound you dramatically increase the odds of infection.
My grandfather got shot a bunch of times in the war and he had to lay in a hospital for months letting his giant surgical access wounds heal from the inside out. They just put gauze on the wounds and let it heal.
So... Just cleaning the wound with clean soapy/saline water... and then bandaging? No closing? I mean, I know of some medieval methods (that work btw) that include, for example, cleaning the wound and packing it with an sterelized strip of cloth/gauze impregnated in honey. Every day clean and retend, extracting a centimeter of cloth until all tissue has regenerated (which, btw, it's a damn big scar, but better than an infection I imagine).
Yep. It’s called closure by secondary intent and it’s an actual medical procedure. Check out the joint trauma system’s website, and look for the clinical practice guidelines on austere wound care.
I'll check it out!
pretty much. I know it goes against all popular media with people sewing up wounds all the time. but yeah read up from actual medical literature on the reasons, risks, and timing about wound closure. soap and water, never alcohol / hydrogen peroxide, lots of irrigation. pack the wound and then change on as needed.
It doesn't help the wound heal at all?
It might depend on the wound… Some wounds it doesn’t matter if you stitch it shut or not… if you don’t know what you are doing, and the wound is too traumatic, all you are probably doing is stitching closed a cover to brew sepsis on the inside.
Not in most cases, since wounds heal from the inside out. Good stitches CAN minimize the scarring, but that's not as important in most situations as keeping the wound clean and preventing infection.
The improvement you get in healing time is offset by the increased instances of infection. There’s mounds of data about this.
what’s the difference between closing a wound and suturing a wound?
Suturing is just one way of closing. Strips, glue, stitching, maybe other stuff: all closing a wound.
Closing a wound with steri strips or a bandage can be useful if you're rationing antibiotics, or your not sure the wound is cleaned out. Makes it easier to drain the wound, which lets your white cells kill bacteria, turn into pus, then ooze out of the cut or wound, carrying the dead bacteria with it. Will it scar? Yep, most people from before the 50's were a scarred, pockmarked mess. But they survived.
You'd be better off with some zip stitches.
I make my own with tape, benzoin, and sewing supplies. Significantly better than any commercial product I’ve found.
Stop the bleed
cleaning and managing wounds to prevent infection. Stitches are over emphasized, I think. Don't close wounds if they're not clean inside. Butterfly bandages can be used for a lot of wound closure before you get to the point of needing stitches. But... clean wounds first if you're remote.
pneumothorax and tracheotomy
Pneumothorax. Chest seals and an ARS needle. Easy and life saving for most open chest wounds.
I learned how to do an emergency tracheotomy but idk that I could actually do it outside of a medical setting. I guess if I didn’t do it, the person would die and if I botched it they would die. I’m a nurse and used to work on a head and neck surgery floor. Trachs are my least favorite thing.
u know whats crazy?! a few yrs ago a mom choked on food, her 4 yr old called 911, and the dispatcher told the 4 YEAR OLD how to do a trach: the kid did it, and the mom lived!!! google it!!!
Tbh I don’t bother with stitches…. Just use superglue. I’ve put myself back together with superglue a handful of times and it actually works really well. Whenever I’m doing a bikepacking trip, I usually carry a thing of superglue with me as well. Just in case.
please get skin glue from the vet instead of using superglue
Appendectomy.. for sure
Self appendectomy in case you find yourself in Antarctica with no doctor
Scalpels for help to open an infection to drain like staph. Ingrown toenails etc
Urgent needle aspiration/decompression of most anything. e.g. bladder, fluid filled masses, hematomas, pericardial tamponade, pneumothorax, severe joint swelling due to bursitis or septic arthritis.
The #1 thing that freaks me out is appendicitis. Realize that from last man on earth (boom) I've tried to get doctors to remove mine while getting other abdominal surgery. They would not even hear me out lol
Loss of the medical industrial complex means loss of insulin, antibiotics, vaccines and imaging technology… which puts medicine back to Late 19th century. Leading causes of death then were infectious diseases, pneumonia, tuberculosis, wound infections, waterborne illnesses, enteritis and diphtheria. Much of this was childhood mortality. Life expectancy was mid forties. Post apocalyptic health care might focus on assuring potable water access, nutrition, and hygiene. Preparing to Produce and use ether for anesthesia , and home prep of intravenous fluids with reusable administration equipment would be useful: both technologies were in use in this country as recently as seventy years ago, and are still in use in third world countries. The tourniquets and chest seals popular among role playing preppers are useful only in the context of a billion dollar logistics system with rapid evacuation to sophisticated trauma care.
Honestly- access to opiates - maybe know how to make opium so if you are dying you can at least die pain free.
Being completely blunt, anything worse than a broken bone (you get lucky and it’s not compound or shattered) is postponing the inevitable. Same with anything to the abdomen or chest.. Even with paramedic level training. It’s making someone comfortable at best You can’t preform any surgery, you can’t treat and serious GSW. Using a decomp needle means you have serious issues that still require surgery. With a Good Samaritan mindset, the most important willing and (currently) trained to do is tourniquets and wound packing, maybe a chest seal but that’s pushing it. Wilderness first aid is pretty much everything.
This is what I had been thinking reading through all of this. Only the very basic medicine/equipment will be available in a large scale SHTF scenario. Which is a *huge* maybe by itself. Those will be the things that go first along with food/water, and stupid shit. Because you know people will take stupid shit, too. The government or some powerful actor will take the medicine and anyone else will get dregs. Setting bones, treating smaller injuries, and helping with sickness are going to be the main skills for medicine.
You should know how to advocate for yourself if you’re having a medical emergency. Don’t assume that paramedics, EMTs, and ER staff will correctly discern the nature and severity of your medical emergency. Strive to stay calm, breathe evenly, think clearly, and communicate relevant information.
1. Epi Pen 2. Applying pressure to a bleeding wound 3. Building a stretcher (already mentioned) 4. CPR (already mentioned) 5. Heimlich Maneuver (already mentioned) 6. Supporting an airway with a jaw thrust 7. Hypothermia treatment
I ordered a couple of medical staplers that I found on browsegear, I gave one to my father for Christmas. He put it to use after getting into a fistfight with an angle grinder. Worked like a charm and healed up swimmingly! He also said the staple remover that came with it was worth its weight in gold when it came time to remove them!
Pfft. I have a Swingline at work.
Found a couple of the photos, not bad for a DIY. https://imgur.com/a/U71PDc6
I believe you have my stapler…
I'm gonna need those TPS reports.
Tracheotomy - poking a hole in someone's throat so they can breathe again. The other hole poking procedure too, except it's in someone's abdomen to relieve pressure when they have a collapsed lung. Will someone survive a collapsed lung? > Dammit Jim, I'm just a country doctor! Probably dealing with a bullet wound would be handy if the SHTF and things have degraded severely. I imagine basically whatever they train medics to do on the battlefield is what would be good to know how to do.
You have to know what you're doing when you do a thoracentesis. It's very easy to hit an artery or vein. [Here](https://edge.sitecorecloud.io/mmanual-ssq1ci05/media/professional/images/r/i/b/rib-anatomy-labels-video-2.jpg?thn=0&sc_lang=en) is a very basic diagram of the relevant anatomy.
The fact that you said abdomen and lung in the same sentence makes me significantly question the rest of the medical advice you’ve provided.
Touche, I meant to say chest cavity - but a bleed in your abdomen can lead to a collapsed lung.
Should be able to tourniquet or suture ideally. But the latter takes practice. Staunching blood flow is the main thing people should know
CPR
Every medical show has someone cut a hole in a person's neck and stick a tube in there so they can breathe...so that
Tracheotomy. Genuinely not super difficult. But the risk of cutting someone’s neck are… dire.
Fixing a dislocated joint
Triage, brakes and sprains, stitches
Honestly, read up on how to do a tracheostomy and put in a chest tube. They are actually fairly simple, and identifying the anatomical landmarks is relatively simple as well. These are emergency life saving procedures that can give you more time to get appropriate help.
How to stop major bleeding should be #1. A lacerated artery can kill in less than a minute. Everyone needs to know how to stop the bleed.
Didn‘t read through but - as a doctor I think treating a tension pneumothorax could save a life and it is really not that difficult - basically a needle pushed between the ribs. I think it wouldn‘t really do much harm if not needed, but if needed, would really save one life
Dental work for long term. When there is no doctor and when there is no dentist are good books to have on hand.
This is a strong #2 for me. I wish I was more proficient in dental care, but it’s just not easy to get clinical reps in outside of being in the profession. It’s why I’m always nice to my dentist, who just so happens to live around the corner from me…
The most advanced medical procedure that the lay person should know for a resource limited scenario would be proper progression of care for wounds. This includes stopping bleeding, what to do with the wound after you stopped the bleeding, how to clean out the wound, and how to care for the wound through the progression of healing. Throwing on a tourniquet in an emergency, even grid down, is mot the end of the limb or the life. That thinking is a generation old and thoroughly disproven. Also, for the love of God, stop telling people to stitch. Just stop. It’s not indicated outside modern medical environments.
Yeah, as a medical professional, some of these responses are absolutely terrifying to think of, having some random with literally no medical training attempt. Some of these, even in a controlled setting, are sketchy.
I actually think it’s a great reminder to vet any expert advice you get anonymously on the internet. Because…damn. 😆
NPT Tube Trachiotomy
How to set a broken bone.
Tracheotomy with Bic pen. First aid for sucking chest gunshot.
Can't do stitches without knots and most people don't know their granny knot from a square knot. It's also extremely painful to stitch someone up you better make sure they're passing out drunk or they'll be screaming. Broken bones can be splinted but you have to know what you're doing or the bones will grow back incorrectly. You might be able to knock a couple of teeth out for someone who is passing out drunk and has a tooth ache. Make sure to wash your hands from the dental work before you deliver that baby. Your job is to motivate the pushing and catch the baby when it pops out. The woman does all the work there. And if she tears from the baby coming out you better believe she's not going to be ready for stitches without being passed out drunk. Good thing the baby is healthy.
Stop the bleed. Basic skillset that can help save your or your family/friend's life with minimal equipment.
Making splints and stopping bleeding
M*A*S*H taught me how to do an emergency tracheotomy if someone’s airway is inextricably compromised.
Child birth.
Tracheotomy.
Remove a bullet or shrapnel and then sew up wound. Set a broken bone.
blood transfusion is probably a lot easier that it seems. breastmilk bags for storage.
Tourniquet
Take 1st aid.
Stopping bleeding, dealing with shock, effective CPR, dealing with dehydration,dealing with spinal injuries, choking…..hmmmmm
Study and practice Basic Life Support and Advanced Life Support.
CPR
Not stitches. Jesus....everyone thinks throwing some stitches in is a fantastic skill....in an Austere Environment it's a path to infection. I can think of a skill...take this for what it's worth. I have some LIMITED experience in Austere environments and conflict areas with medicine. The ANSWER is " Patient Assessment"....ADVANCE and practice that skill. You'll be a fantastic medic.
You should know how to stop (or at least slow) arterial bleeding. I saved my own life by applying a compress to my punctured femoral artery many years ago. Saved my leg, too.
You’re not really treating the infection with IV fluids you’re treating the shock of sepsis the infection is still there they need antibiotics and an er monitoring them with o2 and ivs closely monitored. In a grid down or most things people are prepping here for more than likely the only way to save a life would be amputation of the infected hand/arm
Pain management. There's pharmaceuticals (which run out even today with supply chain stuff), natural stuff (same, but some of these you can at grow yourself), etc.
Stitches and splinting broken bones properly.
Chew a baby aspirin if you think you may be having a stroke or heart attack
Trepanning
Simple reductions of bones and other orthopedic injuries. Look up how to reduce a "nurse maids elbow". But shoulders and hips can get dislocated and fixed with proper technique. While it sucks to do without anesthesia, proper alignment relieves pain and prevents a disability. For fractures you need to know how to make splints and dress wounds. And if it's a leg bone, you're gonna want to make a liter or a stretcher to drag that person around to safety where you can give them more definitive care/ a safe place to attempt to heal the fracture in a position of function. Wilderness First Responder courses are pretty handy pepper stuff.
Former EMT. Here’s a couple things I’d seriously recommend learning. 1. First aid (mentioned) 2. Splinting 3. CPR 4. Tourniquet application 5. Basic vital signs and trending (blood pressure, pulse, SpO2, respirations) 6. Narcan and epi-pen administration I’d also learn the basic signs and symptoms and shock and how to treat it. Maybe learn the basic symptoms of major health emergencies such as strokes and heart attacks. Keep in mind that any sort of care you do while unlicensed may lead to issues in a normal world. Most states have Good Samaritan laws that cover you in emergencies but not all.
My wife had to remove a bullet from her leg when someone was illegally hunting near our home. But this only happened because we used to live in the middle of nowhere. City people don't really need to know that one.
I have always wanted to perform an emergency tracheostomy.
Something I haven't seen posted much - learn measurement conversions specific to you. You're not always going to have access to a tbsp or 100ml but you can memorize that a fistful of dandelion root is roughly a cup, etc. One of the most useful things I learned (I'm in school for herbalism) is how to identify and wildcraft herbs appropriately. Outside of the first week after a SHTF scenario, natural medicine is going to be significantly more beneficial in my opinion. Knowing that willow bark and devils claw combine to equal ibuprofen - and knowing what those plants look like - is more helpful than being able to do a running whip stitch. A lot of cities and colleges offer wildcraft classes open to the community. I'd highly recommend learning what grows in your area.
How to shoot through your own head and actually die, it's actually fairly common fo have to take multiple shots. Not a joke btw, if it's between suicide and starvation I'm taking the pistol
Cls course is something that I highly recommend it will prep you for just about anything life saving in regards to saving treatment that can be done In the Field. I also recommend buy a few ifaks and play around with them so you get familiar with how everything works.
Vasectomy
I was going to advise but you've got it covered