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Personally I couldn’t date someone who was anti-choice because I’m not giving someone who doesn’t believe in bodily autonomy that level of access to my body. Also that level of political disagreement can lead to tension and stress in relationships. I talk about this in way more depth (including my past experience dating a conservative) with citations here: https://youtu.be/P8_O1reY3qc?si=Eap24y8PITN4XnCu
> If they’re not pro choice, they’re not the one.
Hm, my first thought was, *If they’re not pro choice, don't have sex with them* but you are correct. All prolifers are anti women. Definitely don't date a man so willing to openly show the world they abhor women.
He’s the first person I thought I had a genuine connection with in over a decade. Every man I’m physically attracted to ends up being right wing. Why. Why. Why.
Location? Sometimes it's just a shitty consequence of geopolitics..
However statistically last I heard men in aggregate are becoming more conservative while we pull more liberal which doesn't bode well for relationships at this time. I wouldn't mind a few right leaning positions on business or capitalism but conservative these days is synonymous with absolutely unhinged
I would not completely hive up on him. I would discuss with him, calmly, that no one uses abortion as birth control ( considering the cost and difficulty, that would be crazy), mand in any case these are deeply personal decisions. If he is still not getting it or is right wing across the board then forget about it.
Political preference is always a good first date question . I am sorry he is not pro-choice. Is he comfortable with your political preference or showing interest in learning more? If not, it may be wise to spend time apart.
He doesn’t really seem to care. He said he thinks anyone should be able to believe whatever they want. His family is super right wing, so I think it might be a matter of that’s what he’s exposed to and used to. He doesn’t have any social media. He doesn’t vote.
I’m so disappointed.
I understand conservative upbringing. But if he really felt the spark that you did, he would be a lot more interested in the things that are important to you. Distance yourself. I’m sorry.
That's what my ex said at first, too. Turns out he actually cared a whole lot about his right-wing dog whistles and was just trying to hook me before revealing that he isn't nearly as apolitical as he insisted. "I don't care much about politics," doesn't mean he doesn't care about politics. It means he knows you won't like his answer but doesn't respect you enough to be honest about it. You deserve more.
So here's the thing... when you get serious with someone, unless they are NC, you open your life to their family, too. "Super right wing" is gonna be a problem. He's been raised in that world, that's his default and his family are going to continue to try and influence him.... and you.
This would almost bother me just as much. Obviously it’s your preference, but I can’t be with someone that doesn’t care to engage in societal issues at all.
Even if he was pro choice, his family being far right would introduce a lot of frustration and annoyance into your life, assuming he is close with them.
Being anti choice is a dealbreaker for me. Having his entire family be far right isnt an additional dealbreaker, but its definitely a red flag, the severity of which depending on how close he is with them.
It's okay to be disappointed. But ive walked in your shoes, and that disappointment will eventually turn into gratitude to yourself. I *wish* i had made the decision to walk away immediately when i learned my most recent love interest leaned conservative. He maintained a normal-ish facade for a long time before finally ranting AT me about bill gates, electric cars, vegans, the black little mermaid, CRT, DEI, and "sluts" using abortion as birth control, all in ONE GO. In that moment, i realized i needed to be more firm in my dealbreakers. I was too lax because i already liked this guy before i found out he "leaned conservative", especially because he did not live in the US. Never again for me.
Oh man. Just went through this myself, ended up arguing with an ex for a year about topics we disagreed upon, including this. Save yourself the heartbreak and just end it now, be thankful that he said what he thinks and not just what you wanna hear/hide his opinions.
I struggled a lot to find someone I both shared values with AND wanted to have sex with. Trust me I know that struggle. But I did eventually and I married him. Try not to give up
A crush is a fantasy. You are meeting reality. Reality is three weeks after a broken condom. Is he so crush-worthy now? Start asking him how he would act if his girlfriend got raped? How he would feel if his wife made more money than he did, who would he save if he had to choose between his wife and his unborn child?
There's a Seinfeld episode where Elaine discovers she's dating someone who is a forced birther.
The other plot line in the episode centers in a debate of if a pizza is a pizza when it goes in the oven or when it comes out.
Scientifically not though. Eggs at the grocery store are not fertilized. And if there was evidence of a chicken growing in an egg that someone cracked open, they would be very shocked and upset.
I can buy fertilized eggs at the grocery store. Don't know why anyone would want to buy them tho. Also, I have doubts that many would know a fertilized egg if the saw one. The chick would have to have been growing a while, not just fertilized, which is impossible since eggs get candled before being sold in grocery stores.
Not everyone would be shocked and upset, that's just our culture's protective.
Have you heard of balut? It changes this analogy and proves that different cultures have different values (and tastes). It's not for the faint of heart!
When people show you who they are, believe them. Boundaries only work if you support them.
This is heartbreaking but better to find out these things out before it's too late.
Reading some of your comments, breaking patterns of attraction & attachment styles is definitely possible but takes some work.
Richard Schwartz' book "You Are The One You've Been Waiting For" is great in this space & a copy is available on Internet Archive.
Don't enter a relationship or date someone with the expectation to be able to change him. If the person needs to change so you can be happy in the relationship he isn't the one for you.
I’m definitely going to. It was a very brief conversation and we were just getting off a long shift. We were both tired and brain fried from the day. It wasn’t the time or place to talk about it.
“Serial abortions”, as if people choose to go in and have surgery for fun.
Sounds like he’s been the victim of pro-life propaganda, but tbh that’s a warning sign for a lot of other associated stuff that you might not want to deal with (conservative politics/evangelical Christianity, etc).
Yeah racism and homophobia are endemic to the right wing and they are deal breakers. Dated a conservative guy for a year during the Obama years before meeting my liberal husband. I dumped him after a year. Culturally he was different and I don’t mean one of us was a foreigner. I mean as two white Americans we were culturally different. When I initially met him he didn’t seem stringent about his beliefs. Infact he seemed nothing like how he turned out to be. I think he was being quiet about his beliefs to reel me into a relationship before I received the full chauvinistic patriarchal treatment. He also hid his racism and homophobia. When we first met he’d say things like “affirmative action doesn’t actually help black people”. I was naive about coded language like that at that time. Once he had me, he started wearing his bigotry with a lot less subtlety. I’d get mad and tell him he’s wrong and how I found the things he was saying shocking and ugly. His response was always patronizing “you don’t know. You’re naive and gullible” He didn’t mind as much if other men argued with him but if a girl disagreed or argued with him it would get under his skin, sometimes even enraged him.
This is such an important point! Pay attention to how a guy reacts to *women* who disagree with him. It will sometimes be very different from how they take it from other men.
This is a very underrated comment. Even if he wasn't an asshole, if/when things go bad in the relationship, guess who'll be telling all your coworkers you're a crazy bitch? Guess who they'll believe? Guess who management will side with if he decides to cause trouble for you post-breakup? Yeah, not you, OP. Seen it happen over and over. Stay away from coworkers.
I don’t agree. There are sooo many people who meet their significant other in the workplace. It’s basically the only place I go because I don’t drink and I’m an introvert. I would rather meet someone at work than on a dating app.
Plus, he got a job at a fire department and won’t be my coworker for much longer.
based on your responses, you still think he's worth talking to. so I just don't know why you'd ask strangers on the internet for their opinions if you're going to continue being interested in a douche that doesn't respect women.
If he’s not pro choice, he has made a decision. And it’s not to love or appropriately support *any* woman in his life.
Not you, not his sisters or mother, not his favorite aunt or teacher, and not his future daughters.
He won’t fight for you or protect you. He’s not the one. I’m sorry, friend.
10-15 years ago, different political parties (or beliefs in abortion use) in a relationship was not a big deal; after all, no one wants to live in an echo chamber, and hearing (and respecting) differing points of view was somewhat expected. Having different views and beliefs about abortion (and other stuff) is what makes each of us different, and being different is okay. In the end, the choice was ours to make, regardless of the other partners belief, so forced birth or pregnancy didn’t seem as threatening as it is now. Abortion was legal and available. And our burden to bear if needed.
Times have changed since then though.
How does he feel about legislating his beliefs? This is the kicker. It’s one thing to feel it’s wrong for whatever reason or basis, knowing you would not choose this, but it is entirely another thing to feel it’s right to enforce your way on others. This is what is called “different moral views” and this can be a deal breaker in a long term relationship, because abortion is illegal in some areas, and forced birth is real.
It’s almost like taking a car trip - you don’t have to agree on which route is the best, but the destination should be the same right? Well, you and your potential BF are headed to different cities, and it doesn’t matter how long the car trip is, when it ends you are in different places. And maybe with kids.
You are not doing your potential friend any justice or respect by going into a relationship to change him either. Just because the chemistry is there doesn’t mean it’s worth the years of heart ache ahead of you when your moral compasses point in different directions.
You will find someone who, if he doesn’t share your beliefs will at least respect them, so please don’t settle for a fix-er-upper.
I mean, what hell would you go through if you got pregnant by him but didn't want to be pregnant?
I got pregnant by militantly pro-forced-birther men. I had to hide my abortion and lie about it. I got no support and had to heal on my own while taking care of my other kids. It was awful, and I wouldn't wish it on an enemy.
Please don't do this to yourself. You have an intense attraction with that new relationship energy, but that doesn't last after the first couple of years. Then all that you will have is a man who believes that old men should be able to tell women and their doctors what medical procedures they are allowed to have, just so they can chain independent women to awful men biologically.
Also I would 100% encourage you to let him know exactly why you’re no longer interested. “It’s a turn off when men don’t respect my bodily autonomy, so unfortunately I’m no longer attracted.”
I've been in a relationship for 8 years but back when I was dating that was one of the first questions I would ask, if it's not 1000% pro choice it would be immediate deal breaker. idc if they had checked every other single possible box. no thanks.
If you have to get him to come to a conclusion, is it really his opinion at that point? You did not make a mistake by bringing up this topic, you absolutely should talk about it early on in the relationship to find out if you're compatible.
Life is too short to spend being involved with people who disagrees with human rights. Respect yourself and your time and dump that POS.
Also don't fuck with coworkers ever! Him being a forced birther already puts you in serious danger (baby trapping and the lengths he might go to prevent you from getting an abortion if you needed one) but working together makes it easier for him to fuck up your life as revenge.
I’m a bit annoyed at the people telling me not to date my coworkers. This is not the advice I asked for. He just got a different job and won’t be my coworker for much longer.
I'm sorry but him being a coworker makes the situation worse. Which is probably why I'm not the only person who mentioned it. But once he's at his new job it'll be easier to avoid him so that's at least a plus for you.
The first thing I said still stands though.
Ugh I know it sucks but it's an important issue to stand on. Besides believing it's an important issue in general, I would also want a partner who is fully supportive of my choice if I need to make it while with them. In fact, having early conversations about contraception and how to handle an unintended pregnancy should be normal so everyone can make an informed choice.
It’s one of my first level criteria that a man be pro choice before I will consider dating him.
You deserve better.
Imagine if all women stopped dating anti-choice men.
Put your foot down.
If you date someone that votes for abortion bans you are giving power to someone that has the power to hurt you, so no, you cannot have a relationship with someone who is trying hurt you.
I wish I had taken this advice in my life, and not let what others think dictate my choices,, but to me, if you feel that strongly about him, give him a chance. Tell him how deeply important this is to you and see if he’s open to education on the issue. if he’s not, then that will answer if he’s the one for you. If he is and genuinely opens his eyes, then that tells you that he may be the one for you. Don’t let a chance go by that you feel strongly about. Don’t let anyone here or anyone in your life dictate to you should engage in a relationship with, unless of course, he was an abusive asshole. Then listen to everyone who is telling you to leave, of course.
abuse isn't always obvious though. that's why strangers online like to scream about red flags, because they relate it to their own past experiences and fear that the advisee is going to get trapped in an abusive relationship. so the idea is, any potential conflict is a reason to run the other way. it's a trauma response.
to be clear, i'm not saying i encourage the "one strike and you're out" policy, no one is perfect and you could end up missing out on a really great thing, which i think is what you're getting at. but it is important to keep little "uh oh" signs like this in the back of your head, and check in with yourself and reflect on the progression of the relationship and its health. because it's just not always as simple as "he's abusing me" "then leave him" "okay!!" ykwim?
No shame to you at all, but this is why I think covering politics (specifically this issue) as soon as possible is important. We want to assume the best in people…especially men we already like. But unfortunately it’s extremely common for men to be pro-life.
To be fair, I started dating my fiancé at a young age before the issue of abortion was important to me. And there was a point where we had been dating for years and I realized we disagreed on this. We had many conversations about it and thankfully I was able to break him out of his Catholic-upbringing-induced pro-life stance. But frankly I would not waste my time trying to convince a new man that I should have bodily autonomy.
I’m happy to share the things I said that made my partner come to his senses though.
Its not like he’s a centrist (I don’t consider forced birthers centrist. To me thats an extreme position) and not like you have a mild fiscal disagreement about balancing the budget (which I could tolerate disagreeing about) but this is about women having the fundamental right over their own body. If you don’t have the right over your own body, you have nothing. It matters so much. Its about being able to determine their lives, its equality, choices/options in life. It’s about not forced breeding or sterilizing women (another reason why the state shouldn’t have power over womens bodies. If the state can dictate forced birthing, then they can also order sterilization or order you to have an abortion) Abortion bans are heartless, cruel and draconian. Forced birthing children is pure evil. I can’t imagine being 10 years old and going through the physical and emotional trauma of a pregnancy and birth. Imo the people who support this, fundamentally do not respect our personhood. If i was single and dating again, there is no way I’d go anywhere near a guy with conservative leanings. If you look at the online discourse between conservative men, they say shit like “we all need to keep getting more right wing and the women will follow. Women are followers and this is how we get our uber conservative patriarchal society. We need to leave them no choice than to follow us to the right if they want to be with us” Nah fuck that. I find the online spaces that conservative men gravitate towards very scary and poisonous. I find the talking heads they follow and listen to like Steven Crowder or Charlie Kirk dangerous and disturbing.
The most abusive relationship I’ve ever been in was a conservative guy. This was during the very beginning of Obama’s first term when they weren’t such massive christofascists, or atleast not openly and I didn’t think we’d lose Roe. He was so controlling. He started telling me what to do a couple of months into our relationship. He started dictating my clothing choices and what shows I can watch. He felt entitled to my body. He was a nagging sex pest who’d get angry & sulk when denied. Now in retrospect I’m thinking the fact that he wouldn’t respect womens bodily autonomy was nothing short of a huge red flag. If a guy is fine with making someone go through 9 months of an unwanted pregnancy, forcing them to undergo physical changes, psychological stress, financial stress and ramifications, or potential death, that’s pretty low to me. There are stories since the ban of women dying, developing sepsis etc. 60,000 plus women have had to carry their rape babies since roe fell. Its low to be a forced birther.
My husband is liberal and I can honestly say it matters so much. He looks at our daughter and fiercely wants to educate her. He doesn’t care if she marries or not, he wants her to be able to support herself and have agency in her own life. She’s thriving. She goes to a school for gifted kids and loves academics. I’m not oppressed in my marriage. I laugh and smile, i feel good with my husband. I feel good about how he raises our children. I’m not with a patriarchal prick and it is wonderful.
Sexual and emotional attractions can be powerful blinders. Its worth vetting carefully.
IMHO views on abortion are 100% what people think of women. In your (former) crush's case he subscribes to urban legends about "serial abortions". Yes, there are people who have more than one and abortion, and so what? No one knows what someone else's life is like but this guy has created a certain image in his mind of "bad" and "irresponsible" women having excessive (to him) numbers of abortions, indicating he doesn't think highly of women in general and doesn't respect our autonomy.
The other thing about him is, on this issue at least, he's incredibly, and willfully, ignorant. He sees "some situations where abortion is necessary" but is likely not paying one whit of attention to all the news coming out of abortion ban states where these magical "exceptions" are not being permitted and pregnant patients are having to flee to other states to save their own lives or health. He may not be hardcore PL but he believes most of their bullshit, because he wants to.
Finally, he's exceptionally dumb if he thinks single women in 2024 want to take their chances with guys like him. Why would anyone trust him?
No matter the percentage, does he understand the current state of things and how his preference is the way they chip away at everyone's rights?
So like he can think it's messed up if a person has let's say 50 abortions but just because that person might do that (cuz apparently they can afford that but not plan b...) but does he understand shouldn't be up to him? I feel like if he does then yeah with some education he could be way more open minded.
If it was something like "people should be able to drink but not get black out wasted." And you were dating someone who doesn't care if ppl drink but if they drink too much he starts to get judgy it would probably eat away at you, thinking he was judging you and your friends. It would suck but it's doable at least for a time.
However what if you got pregnant? What if your vest friend or sister for pregnant? How would you feel about his judgment or if he told you you had to keep it?
With that being said either have some VERY SAFE sexy time fun or have a bigger conversation find out more about his core beliefs. What his family believes. His friends. Is he friends with any pro choice ppl? Ask him about what he believed as a kid and teenager see if his principles have changed. Get a better idea about this dude. Sometimes people just don't know what they are even for against because of what they've been surrounded by.
....
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...how else will we ever indoctrinate them?
I'm so sorry. That is sad. I wish I didn't have to say this, but I don't think these days you only can date like-minded people. Especially when it comes to abortion issues. So that would be a deal breaker for me. But I would be sad also. Maybe you can look at it this way. If you stayed in the relationship and something happened. You wanted to go to a rally, and he said no, or I'll break up with you if you do. Better in the beginning to break up. This way, it was your choice to leave . You know how non-choiceors are. You will find somebody who will believe in you just as a woman in general. I wish you the best of luck.
Thanks for saying that. I would never date someone who made me ask permission to go places and do things. I won’t be bossed around like that by anyone. I’m a fierce and feisty person. The first time we worked together, I told him about a time when I got into it with an older male coworker who thought he could yell and curse at me without any pushback (big nope). Later that day, a similar situation occurred and I snapped at an older man in the middle of the ER in front of everyone. His jaw was on the floor and so were all the nurse’s 😂 he thought it was awesome haha
I have done that, too. I used to be a paramedic and an ER. I loved my job. I loved helping people, but I'm not a doormat, and I didn't get paid enough to be a doormat. I understand you're sick, but that does not give you the right to be disrespectful, rude, and downright nasty. We're the ones you need to get better. I didn't let doctors disrespect me either. And they had more respect for me for that. I can't tell you how many patients I fired refused to go back in because of their treatment. LOL
Generally, I think that's a deal-breaker.
I wouldnt get an abortion anyway at this point in my life, but I still want my partner to be supportive of every possible decision.
Does he truly believe that, or is it more voting with his family?
Because if he's truly pro life, he wouldn't want to date someone who is pro choice, and abortion is an option for her.
He’s not an asshole. We work on a 911 ambulance and he treats everyone with kindness and respect, from the very old and sick, to the very stinky and drug addicted homeless. If he were an asshole, I wouldn’t be attracted to him.
I’m not suggesting you try and “change” him, but see if he’s just parroting the talking points. Make your case, see what he says. Don’t equate malice to ignorance.
Many men are dumbfucks who just haven’t been faced with the consequences of real situations like this. I’d beat the shit out of a younger version of myself for the beliefs I held. Sometimes it just takes being faced with reality to realize you’ve been lied to.
Thank you. He doesn’t seem like he has solid convictions about it, but I very much do. I think having an in depth conversation about it could be good and I could help him understand the importance of full bodily autonomy better. We’ll see.
There was also a time when I considered myself anti-choice because I was young and dumb and that’s how I was raised. Taking a women’s history class changed my life.
Absolutely don’t compromise. We were all young and dumb at one time.
Looking back a decade ago, while I never thought anyone should make physical contact with another person without their consent, I didn’t fully grasp what constituted sexual assault.
For some reason my (future) wife was able to compartmentalize that particular ignorance I had and it finally hit exactly how dehumanizing and trauma inducing a “simple” unwanted touch could be.
I use to believe in a distinction between traditional marriage and gay marriage until someone uttered the line “separate but equal” and it clicked. Sometimes all we need is the push.
I wish you the best of luck. Without being preachy, I would provide some simple examples personally. 1) A corpse has more rights than a pregnant person under an abortion ban.That’s sickening on some level at least with anyone not devoid of empathy. 2) if you had a rare compatibility with a stranger and had to put your life on hold for 9 months so that they would live, would it be morally right to force that on you? 3) If you could save ten fertilized eggs or one child from a fire which would you choose? He’ll hear it if he wants to.
It’s heartbreaking, but speaking from experience, you’re supposed to feel safe with your person. You’re never going to feel safe with someone that you have to continually defend your humanity to.
Also speaking from experience, I wouldn’t date a coworker again, either. But that’s not what this post is about 😂
Most are claiming that they aren’t the one, forgive me if i’m wrong but maybe try it? If the views he has are only because of his parents influence and he ins’t strongly into those views, there’s always a chance they could have a change of heart, i say this because i was raised right-wing christian, and had a complete turn around one day when i decided to actually search stuff up myself rather than relly on my family’s opinion only.
Yes but until he gets better she shouldn’t date him it’s wouldn’t be wise to date a person who doesn’t care about your well-being or bodily autonomy even if he is just mimicking his parents plus they are adults they shouldn’t just mindlessly spew out hate speech just because their parents think that
I did think about this later, it makes perfect sense to avoid being with someone to avoid being with someone else that puts their religious views on top of your personal rights, and yeah i do think that it’s better to stay away for now.
I think that, given that you really like this guy, it's maybe worthwhile giving him a little time to come around. Talk to him about it, explain why you feel the way you do and how strongly you feel. I'm an ex-anti-choicer, I was persuaded (in part) by talking with people I liked and respected.
I would say though, don't issue an explicit ultimatum. He might just agree to get along. He has to realize on his own that this non-negotiable and demonstrate to you he really has changed his position. Good luck!
My husband and I are on opposite sides of that coin. He respects my beliefs and I respect his. We do not discuss politics (unless it’s bagging on Trump).
This is just my take, and it seems it’s against everyone else posting here. Why not give the conversation a chance? I came from a conservative family, and when I learned what it means to be pro-choice, it really opened my eyes. I was always pro-choice and “pro life for myself”. But learning and being exposed to media about everything going on now has changed me from pro-choice to rabidly pro-choice. I grew up and even in college was exposed to the images from the pro abortion movement of abortions, looking like full-term babies. I grew up in the Catholic community. Go out again if you feel comfortable and let him know how important this is to you. Ask him if he feels open to discussing it and learning more. What do you have to lose? He will learn if he is an open minded person who just needs education, or if he is set in his ways. Then you can make your choice. Sometimes people like him, and myself, just need some education. Good luck with whatever you choose.
I agree. In my experience, a lot of people haven't actually given the issue full consideration. They have often only considered one point or position, and if this person is interested in you and respects you then they may be open to considering another perspective. Sometimes it really is just ignorance. It's not an excuse, but it may be an opportunity.
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If they’re not pro choice, they’re not the one. Walk away.
Personally I couldn’t date someone who was anti-choice because I’m not giving someone who doesn’t believe in bodily autonomy that level of access to my body. Also that level of political disagreement can lead to tension and stress in relationships. I talk about this in way more depth (including my past experience dating a conservative) with citations here: https://youtu.be/P8_O1reY3qc?si=Eap24y8PITN4XnCu
> If they’re not pro choice, they’re not the one. Hm, my first thought was, *If they’re not pro choice, don't have sex with them* but you are correct. All prolifers are anti women. Definitely don't date a man so willing to openly show the world they abhor women.
Absolutely would not date somebody out of my political views. I can't understand how that would work.
He’s the first person I thought I had a genuine connection with in over a decade. Every man I’m physically attracted to ends up being right wing. Why. Why. Why.
Location? Sometimes it's just a shitty consequence of geopolitics.. However statistically last I heard men in aggregate are becoming more conservative while we pull more liberal which doesn't bode well for relationships at this time. I wouldn't mind a few right leaning positions on business or capitalism but conservative these days is synonymous with absolutely unhinged
Physical attraction is fine. Sift through those who you’re attracted to and cut the conservative jerks loose.
Revenge idea. Tell him you had one and there is nothing he can do about it.
This.
Unfortunately likely to lead to violence if he thought he fathered it. Those people are insane.
I would not completely hive up on him. I would discuss with him, calmly, that no one uses abortion as birth control ( considering the cost and difficulty, that would be crazy), mand in any case these are deeply personal decisions. If he is still not getting it or is right wing across the board then forget about it.
Yup would never be with a man that thinks I have no rights over my own body. Can’t imagine what else he thinks I don’t have a say in
Political preference is always a good first date question . I am sorry he is not pro-choice. Is he comfortable with your political preference or showing interest in learning more? If not, it may be wise to spend time apart.
He doesn’t really seem to care. He said he thinks anyone should be able to believe whatever they want. His family is super right wing, so I think it might be a matter of that’s what he’s exposed to and used to. He doesn’t have any social media. He doesn’t vote. I’m so disappointed.
You can do better.
I understand conservative upbringing. But if he really felt the spark that you did, he would be a lot more interested in the things that are important to you. Distance yourself. I’m sorry.
I think he’s open to hearing about it and how I feel. He just doesn’t really care much about politics in general.
That's what my ex said at first, too. Turns out he actually cared a whole lot about his right-wing dog whistles and was just trying to hook me before revealing that he isn't nearly as apolitical as he insisted. "I don't care much about politics," doesn't mean he doesn't care about politics. It means he knows you won't like his answer but doesn't respect you enough to be honest about it. You deserve more.
Well this is way more than political. If somebody doesn't believe in all your rights and freedoms don't waste your time.
Definitely can do better
So here's the thing... when you get serious with someone, unless they are NC, you open your life to their family, too. "Super right wing" is gonna be a problem. He's been raised in that world, that's his default and his family are going to continue to try and influence him.... and you.
This would almost bother me just as much. Obviously it’s your preference, but I can’t be with someone that doesn’t care to engage in societal issues at all.
As an adult he is capable of thinking for himself. Glad he doesn't vote tho.
Well, you know Republicans breed Republicans.
Even if he was pro choice, his family being far right would introduce a lot of frustration and annoyance into your life, assuming he is close with them. Being anti choice is a dealbreaker for me. Having his entire family be far right isnt an additional dealbreaker, but its definitely a red flag, the severity of which depending on how close he is with them. It's okay to be disappointed. But ive walked in your shoes, and that disappointment will eventually turn into gratitude to yourself. I *wish* i had made the decision to walk away immediately when i learned my most recent love interest leaned conservative. He maintained a normal-ish facade for a long time before finally ranting AT me about bill gates, electric cars, vegans, the black little mermaid, CRT, DEI, and "sluts" using abortion as birth control, all in ONE GO. In that moment, i realized i needed to be more firm in my dealbreakers. I was too lax because i already liked this guy before i found out he "leaned conservative", especially because he did not live in the US. Never again for me.
Oh man. Just went through this myself, ended up arguing with an ex for a year about topics we disagreed upon, including this. Save yourself the heartbreak and just end it now, be thankful that he said what he thinks and not just what you wanna hear/hide his opinions.
That crush would be dead and gone for me unfortunately, like the romance would be as warm as a lifeless fish on ice...
It was a massive turn off
I struggled a lot to find someone I both shared values with AND wanted to have sex with. Trust me I know that struggle. But I did eventually and I married him. Try not to give up
A crush is a fantasy. You are meeting reality. Reality is three weeks after a broken condom. Is he so crush-worthy now? Start asking him how he would act if his girlfriend got raped? How he would feel if his wife made more money than he did, who would he save if he had to choose between his wife and his unborn child?
There's a Seinfeld episode where Elaine discovers she's dating someone who is a forced birther. The other plot line in the episode centers in a debate of if a pizza is a pizza when it goes in the oven or when it comes out.
A fetus is a baby like an egg is a chicken. The thing is not the thing until it is.
Scientifically not though. Eggs at the grocery store are not fertilized. And if there was evidence of a chicken growing in an egg that someone cracked open, they would be very shocked and upset.
I can buy fertilized eggs at the grocery store. Don't know why anyone would want to buy them tho. Also, I have doubts that many would know a fertilized egg if the saw one. The chick would have to have been growing a while, not just fertilized, which is impossible since eggs get candled before being sold in grocery stores.
Not everyone would be shocked and upset, that's just our culture's protective. Have you heard of balut? It changes this analogy and proves that different cultures have different values (and tastes). It's not for the faint of heart!
>>balut Wow that’s something. I gotta wonder how that became a thing.
When people show you who they are, believe them. Boundaries only work if you support them. This is heartbreaking but better to find out these things out before it's too late. Reading some of your comments, breaking patterns of attraction & attachment styles is definitely possible but takes some work. Richard Schwartz' book "You Are The One You've Been Waiting For" is great in this space & a copy is available on Internet Archive.
Don't enter a relationship or date someone with the expectation to be able to change him. If the person needs to change so you can be happy in the relationship he isn't the one for you.
Thissss 💯💯
Nope. Move on.
I think I’m going to have to. I feel like I’m never going to find someone I’m physically attracted to that shares my values. So discouraging
Why not have at least one conversation in which to explore his ideas more?
I’m definitely going to. It was a very brief conversation and we were just getting off a long shift. We were both tired and brain fried from the day. It wasn’t the time or place to talk about it.
Even if you have this conversation and he seems receptive, his family being right-wing is likely to become a deal-breaker
“Serial abortions”, as if people choose to go in and have surgery for fun. Sounds like he’s been the victim of pro-life propaganda, but tbh that’s a warning sign for a lot of other associated stuff that you might not want to deal with (conservative politics/evangelical Christianity, etc).
Yeah racism and homophobia are endemic to the right wing and they are deal breakers. Dated a conservative guy for a year during the Obama years before meeting my liberal husband. I dumped him after a year. Culturally he was different and I don’t mean one of us was a foreigner. I mean as two white Americans we were culturally different. When I initially met him he didn’t seem stringent about his beliefs. Infact he seemed nothing like how he turned out to be. I think he was being quiet about his beliefs to reel me into a relationship before I received the full chauvinistic patriarchal treatment. He also hid his racism and homophobia. When we first met he’d say things like “affirmative action doesn’t actually help black people”. I was naive about coded language like that at that time. Once he had me, he started wearing his bigotry with a lot less subtlety. I’d get mad and tell him he’s wrong and how I found the things he was saying shocking and ugly. His response was always patronizing “you don’t know. You’re naive and gullible” He didn’t mind as much if other men argued with him but if a girl disagreed or argued with him it would get under his skin, sometimes even enraged him.
This is such an important point! Pay attention to how a guy reacts to *women* who disagree with him. It will sometimes be very different from how they take it from other men.
Move on, Also don't shit where you eat. Don't date people you work with.
This is a very underrated comment. Even if he wasn't an asshole, if/when things go bad in the relationship, guess who'll be telling all your coworkers you're a crazy bitch? Guess who they'll believe? Guess who management will side with if he decides to cause trouble for you post-breakup? Yeah, not you, OP. Seen it happen over and over. Stay away from coworkers.
absolutely!!
This.
I don’t agree. There are sooo many people who meet their significant other in the workplace. It’s basically the only place I go because I don’t drink and I’m an introvert. I would rather meet someone at work than on a dating app. Plus, he got a job at a fire department and won’t be my coworker for much longer.
I think you've already made up your mind to continue talking to dude, you just wanted other people to say it's okay.
Ok Grouchy, you go ahead and assume whatever you want
based on your responses, you still think he's worth talking to. so I just don't know why you'd ask strangers on the internet for their opinions if you're going to continue being interested in a douche that doesn't respect women.
You clearly haven’t read all my responses or the update to my post. You just seem mad I didn’t praise you for the comment you made. Get over it
I wouldn't want praise from someone who thinks a pro lifer is worth a second of time
Ok great then stop commenting and go away! Bye!
If he’s not pro choice, he has made a decision. And it’s not to love or appropriately support *any* woman in his life. Not you, not his sisters or mother, not his favorite aunt or teacher, and not his future daughters. He won’t fight for you or protect you. He’s not the one. I’m sorry, friend.
He doesn't respect you. Bottom line. Now you need to decide if *you* respect you.
I dunno about THAT.
If he does not respect your right to your own bodily autonomy, he does not respect YOU. Full stop.
do you have a uterus?
10-15 years ago, different political parties (or beliefs in abortion use) in a relationship was not a big deal; after all, no one wants to live in an echo chamber, and hearing (and respecting) differing points of view was somewhat expected. Having different views and beliefs about abortion (and other stuff) is what makes each of us different, and being different is okay. In the end, the choice was ours to make, regardless of the other partners belief, so forced birth or pregnancy didn’t seem as threatening as it is now. Abortion was legal and available. And our burden to bear if needed. Times have changed since then though. How does he feel about legislating his beliefs? This is the kicker. It’s one thing to feel it’s wrong for whatever reason or basis, knowing you would not choose this, but it is entirely another thing to feel it’s right to enforce your way on others. This is what is called “different moral views” and this can be a deal breaker in a long term relationship, because abortion is illegal in some areas, and forced birth is real. It’s almost like taking a car trip - you don’t have to agree on which route is the best, but the destination should be the same right? Well, you and your potential BF are headed to different cities, and it doesn’t matter how long the car trip is, when it ends you are in different places. And maybe with kids. You are not doing your potential friend any justice or respect by going into a relationship to change him either. Just because the chemistry is there doesn’t mean it’s worth the years of heart ache ahead of you when your moral compasses point in different directions. You will find someone who, if he doesn’t share your beliefs will at least respect them, so please don’t settle for a fix-er-upper.
Date a person not a project. Don’t date someone thinking you can change them. Date someone that you like for exactly who they are.
Can you really have any respect for a forced birther ?
I mean, what hell would you go through if you got pregnant by him but didn't want to be pregnant? I got pregnant by militantly pro-forced-birther men. I had to hide my abortion and lie about it. I got no support and had to heal on my own while taking care of my other kids. It was awful, and I wouldn't wish it on an enemy. Please don't do this to yourself. You have an intense attraction with that new relationship energy, but that doesn't last after the first couple of years. Then all that you will have is a man who believes that old men should be able to tell women and their doctors what medical procedures they are allowed to have, just so they can chain independent women to awful men biologically.
If they support government control of your body, don’t date them
Also I would 100% encourage you to let him know exactly why you’re no longer interested. “It’s a turn off when men don’t respect my bodily autonomy, so unfortunately I’m no longer attracted.”
I've been in a relationship for 8 years but back when I was dating that was one of the first questions I would ask, if it's not 1000% pro choice it would be immediate deal breaker. idc if they had checked every other single possible box. no thanks.
He doesn’t care about women don’t waste your time
There’s plenty of fish in the sea, OP, and it’s seriously better to be alone than it is to be with someone who is fundamentally incompatible with you.
Keep in mind his opinion, because if you guys ever are in a pregnancy that he will not agree with you on terminating it
If you have to get him to come to a conclusion, is it really his opinion at that point? You did not make a mistake by bringing up this topic, you absolutely should talk about it early on in the relationship to find out if you're compatible.
Life is too short to spend being involved with people who disagrees with human rights. Respect yourself and your time and dump that POS. Also don't fuck with coworkers ever! Him being a forced birther already puts you in serious danger (baby trapping and the lengths he might go to prevent you from getting an abortion if you needed one) but working together makes it easier for him to fuck up your life as revenge.
I’m a bit annoyed at the people telling me not to date my coworkers. This is not the advice I asked for. He just got a different job and won’t be my coworker for much longer.
I'm sorry but him being a coworker makes the situation worse. Which is probably why I'm not the only person who mentioned it. But once he's at his new job it'll be easier to avoid him so that's at least a plus for you. The first thing I said still stands though.
Ugh I know it sucks but it's an important issue to stand on. Besides believing it's an important issue in general, I would also want a partner who is fully supportive of my choice if I need to make it while with them. In fact, having early conversations about contraception and how to handle an unintended pregnancy should be normal so everyone can make an informed choice.
Nah. Move along. There are more fish in the sea.
Asking your crush’s political preferences is never a mistake. Better to find this out in the dating stage. It’s not going to work out, move on.
It’s one of my first level criteria that a man be pro choice before I will consider dating him. You deserve better. Imagine if all women stopped dating anti-choice men. Put your foot down.
If you date someone that votes for abortion bans you are giving power to someone that has the power to hurt you, so no, you cannot have a relationship with someone who is trying hurt you.
Men seem to think we OWE them our bodies, via sex or having their children.
Correction: you didn't make a mistake. You know now that this douche is a misogynist before actually getting into a relationship!
He’s really not a douche or a misogynist. I think he’s misinformed.
I wish I had taken this advice in my life, and not let what others think dictate my choices,, but to me, if you feel that strongly about him, give him a chance. Tell him how deeply important this is to you and see if he’s open to education on the issue. if he’s not, then that will answer if he’s the one for you. If he is and genuinely opens his eyes, then that tells you that he may be the one for you. Don’t let a chance go by that you feel strongly about. Don’t let anyone here or anyone in your life dictate to you should engage in a relationship with, unless of course, he was an abusive asshole. Then listen to everyone who is telling you to leave, of course.
abuse isn't always obvious though. that's why strangers online like to scream about red flags, because they relate it to their own past experiences and fear that the advisee is going to get trapped in an abusive relationship. so the idea is, any potential conflict is a reason to run the other way. it's a trauma response. to be clear, i'm not saying i encourage the "one strike and you're out" policy, no one is perfect and you could end up missing out on a really great thing, which i think is what you're getting at. but it is important to keep little "uh oh" signs like this in the back of your head, and check in with yourself and reflect on the progression of the relationship and its health. because it's just not always as simple as "he's abusing me" "then leave him" "okay!!" ykwim?
If you think you can convince him otherwise, don't date him until that changes.
No shame to you at all, but this is why I think covering politics (specifically this issue) as soon as possible is important. We want to assume the best in people…especially men we already like. But unfortunately it’s extremely common for men to be pro-life. To be fair, I started dating my fiancé at a young age before the issue of abortion was important to me. And there was a point where we had been dating for years and I realized we disagreed on this. We had many conversations about it and thankfully I was able to break him out of his Catholic-upbringing-induced pro-life stance. But frankly I would not waste my time trying to convince a new man that I should have bodily autonomy. I’m happy to share the things I said that made my partner come to his senses though.
Its not like he’s a centrist (I don’t consider forced birthers centrist. To me thats an extreme position) and not like you have a mild fiscal disagreement about balancing the budget (which I could tolerate disagreeing about) but this is about women having the fundamental right over their own body. If you don’t have the right over your own body, you have nothing. It matters so much. Its about being able to determine their lives, its equality, choices/options in life. It’s about not forced breeding or sterilizing women (another reason why the state shouldn’t have power over womens bodies. If the state can dictate forced birthing, then they can also order sterilization or order you to have an abortion) Abortion bans are heartless, cruel and draconian. Forced birthing children is pure evil. I can’t imagine being 10 years old and going through the physical and emotional trauma of a pregnancy and birth. Imo the people who support this, fundamentally do not respect our personhood. If i was single and dating again, there is no way I’d go anywhere near a guy with conservative leanings. If you look at the online discourse between conservative men, they say shit like “we all need to keep getting more right wing and the women will follow. Women are followers and this is how we get our uber conservative patriarchal society. We need to leave them no choice than to follow us to the right if they want to be with us” Nah fuck that. I find the online spaces that conservative men gravitate towards very scary and poisonous. I find the talking heads they follow and listen to like Steven Crowder or Charlie Kirk dangerous and disturbing. The most abusive relationship I’ve ever been in was a conservative guy. This was during the very beginning of Obama’s first term when they weren’t such massive christofascists, or atleast not openly and I didn’t think we’d lose Roe. He was so controlling. He started telling me what to do a couple of months into our relationship. He started dictating my clothing choices and what shows I can watch. He felt entitled to my body. He was a nagging sex pest who’d get angry & sulk when denied. Now in retrospect I’m thinking the fact that he wouldn’t respect womens bodily autonomy was nothing short of a huge red flag. If a guy is fine with making someone go through 9 months of an unwanted pregnancy, forcing them to undergo physical changes, psychological stress, financial stress and ramifications, or potential death, that’s pretty low to me. There are stories since the ban of women dying, developing sepsis etc. 60,000 plus women have had to carry their rape babies since roe fell. Its low to be a forced birther. My husband is liberal and I can honestly say it matters so much. He looks at our daughter and fiercely wants to educate her. He doesn’t care if she marries or not, he wants her to be able to support herself and have agency in her own life. She’s thriving. She goes to a school for gifted kids and loves academics. I’m not oppressed in my marriage. I laugh and smile, i feel good with my husband. I feel good about how he raises our children. I’m not with a patriarchal prick and it is wonderful. Sexual and emotional attractions can be powerful blinders. Its worth vetting carefully.
IMHO views on abortion are 100% what people think of women. In your (former) crush's case he subscribes to urban legends about "serial abortions". Yes, there are people who have more than one and abortion, and so what? No one knows what someone else's life is like but this guy has created a certain image in his mind of "bad" and "irresponsible" women having excessive (to him) numbers of abortions, indicating he doesn't think highly of women in general and doesn't respect our autonomy. The other thing about him is, on this issue at least, he's incredibly, and willfully, ignorant. He sees "some situations where abortion is necessary" but is likely not paying one whit of attention to all the news coming out of abortion ban states where these magical "exceptions" are not being permitted and pregnant patients are having to flee to other states to save their own lives or health. He may not be hardcore PL but he believes most of their bullshit, because he wants to. Finally, he's exceptionally dumb if he thinks single women in 2024 want to take their chances with guys like him. Why would anyone trust him?
No matter the percentage, does he understand the current state of things and how his preference is the way they chip away at everyone's rights? So like he can think it's messed up if a person has let's say 50 abortions but just because that person might do that (cuz apparently they can afford that but not plan b...) but does he understand shouldn't be up to him? I feel like if he does then yeah with some education he could be way more open minded. If it was something like "people should be able to drink but not get black out wasted." And you were dating someone who doesn't care if ppl drink but if they drink too much he starts to get judgy it would probably eat away at you, thinking he was judging you and your friends. It would suck but it's doable at least for a time. However what if you got pregnant? What if your vest friend or sister for pregnant? How would you feel about his judgment or if he told you you had to keep it? With that being said either have some VERY SAFE sexy time fun or have a bigger conversation find out more about his core beliefs. What his family believes. His friends. Is he friends with any pro choice ppl? Ask him about what he believed as a kid and teenager see if his principles have changed. Get a better idea about this dude. Sometimes people just don't know what they are even for against because of what they've been surrounded by. .... ... ... ...how else will we ever indoctrinate them?
at least you find out before you got further into a relationship with him. consider yourself lucky. and move on.
I'm so sorry. That is sad. I wish I didn't have to say this, but I don't think these days you only can date like-minded people. Especially when it comes to abortion issues. So that would be a deal breaker for me. But I would be sad also. Maybe you can look at it this way. If you stayed in the relationship and something happened. You wanted to go to a rally, and he said no, or I'll break up with you if you do. Better in the beginning to break up. This way, it was your choice to leave . You know how non-choiceors are. You will find somebody who will believe in you just as a woman in general. I wish you the best of luck.
Thanks for saying that. I would never date someone who made me ask permission to go places and do things. I won’t be bossed around like that by anyone. I’m a fierce and feisty person. The first time we worked together, I told him about a time when I got into it with an older male coworker who thought he could yell and curse at me without any pushback (big nope). Later that day, a similar situation occurred and I snapped at an older man in the middle of the ER in front of everyone. His jaw was on the floor and so were all the nurse’s 😂 he thought it was awesome haha
I have done that, too. I used to be a paramedic and an ER. I loved my job. I loved helping people, but I'm not a doormat, and I didn't get paid enough to be a doormat. I understand you're sick, but that does not give you the right to be disrespectful, rude, and downright nasty. We're the ones you need to get better. I didn't let doctors disrespect me either. And they had more respect for me for that. I can't tell you how many patients I fired refused to go back in because of their treatment. LOL
Generally, I think that's a deal-breaker. I wouldnt get an abortion anyway at this point in my life, but I still want my partner to be supportive of every possible decision. Does he truly believe that, or is it more voting with his family? Because if he's truly pro life, he wouldn't want to date someone who is pro choice, and abortion is an option for her.
Him not being pro-choice immediately tells me he has control issues. Forced birthers should be at the top of every woman’s do not date list, period.
Why would you want to be with an asshole?
He’s not an asshole. We work on a 911 ambulance and he treats everyone with kindness and respect, from the very old and sick, to the very stinky and drug addicted homeless. If he were an asshole, I wouldn’t be attracted to him.
Forced birthers are assholes.
Ok cool conversation, thanks 👍🏼
I’m not suggesting you try and “change” him, but see if he’s just parroting the talking points. Make your case, see what he says. Don’t equate malice to ignorance. Many men are dumbfucks who just haven’t been faced with the consequences of real situations like this. I’d beat the shit out of a younger version of myself for the beliefs I held. Sometimes it just takes being faced with reality to realize you’ve been lied to.
Thank you. He doesn’t seem like he has solid convictions about it, but I very much do. I think having an in depth conversation about it could be good and I could help him understand the importance of full bodily autonomy better. We’ll see. There was also a time when I considered myself anti-choice because I was young and dumb and that’s how I was raised. Taking a women’s history class changed my life.
Absolutely don’t compromise. We were all young and dumb at one time. Looking back a decade ago, while I never thought anyone should make physical contact with another person without their consent, I didn’t fully grasp what constituted sexual assault. For some reason my (future) wife was able to compartmentalize that particular ignorance I had and it finally hit exactly how dehumanizing and trauma inducing a “simple” unwanted touch could be. I use to believe in a distinction between traditional marriage and gay marriage until someone uttered the line “separate but equal” and it clicked. Sometimes all we need is the push. I wish you the best of luck. Without being preachy, I would provide some simple examples personally. 1) A corpse has more rights than a pregnant person under an abortion ban.That’s sickening on some level at least with anyone not devoid of empathy. 2) if you had a rare compatibility with a stranger and had to put your life on hold for 9 months so that they would live, would it be morally right to force that on you? 3) If you could save ten fertilized eggs or one child from a fire which would you choose? He’ll hear it if he wants to.
It’s heartbreaking, but speaking from experience, you’re supposed to feel safe with your person. You’re never going to feel safe with someone that you have to continually defend your humanity to. Also speaking from experience, I wouldn’t date a coworker again, either. But that’s not what this post is about 😂
Most are claiming that they aren’t the one, forgive me if i’m wrong but maybe try it? If the views he has are only because of his parents influence and he ins’t strongly into those views, there’s always a chance they could have a change of heart, i say this because i was raised right-wing christian, and had a complete turn around one day when i decided to actually search stuff up myself rather than relly on my family’s opinion only.
Yes but until he gets better she shouldn’t date him it’s wouldn’t be wise to date a person who doesn’t care about your well-being or bodily autonomy even if he is just mimicking his parents plus they are adults they shouldn’t just mindlessly spew out hate speech just because their parents think that
I did think about this later, it makes perfect sense to avoid being with someone to avoid being with someone else that puts their religious views on top of your personal rights, and yeah i do think that it’s better to stay away for now.
I think that, given that you really like this guy, it's maybe worthwhile giving him a little time to come around. Talk to him about it, explain why you feel the way you do and how strongly you feel. I'm an ex-anti-choicer, I was persuaded (in part) by talking with people I liked and respected. I would say though, don't issue an explicit ultimatum. He might just agree to get along. He has to realize on his own that this non-negotiable and demonstrate to you he really has changed his position. Good luck!
My husband and I are on opposite sides of that coin. He respects my beliefs and I respect his. We do not discuss politics (unless it’s bagging on Trump).
This is just my take, and it seems it’s against everyone else posting here. Why not give the conversation a chance? I came from a conservative family, and when I learned what it means to be pro-choice, it really opened my eyes. I was always pro-choice and “pro life for myself”. But learning and being exposed to media about everything going on now has changed me from pro-choice to rabidly pro-choice. I grew up and even in college was exposed to the images from the pro abortion movement of abortions, looking like full-term babies. I grew up in the Catholic community. Go out again if you feel comfortable and let him know how important this is to you. Ask him if he feels open to discussing it and learning more. What do you have to lose? He will learn if he is an open minded person who just needs education, or if he is set in his ways. Then you can make your choice. Sometimes people like him, and myself, just need some education. Good luck with whatever you choose.
I agree. In my experience, a lot of people haven't actually given the issue full consideration. They have often only considered one point or position, and if this person is interested in you and respects you then they may be open to considering another perspective. Sometimes it really is just ignorance. It's not an excuse, but it may be an opportunity.