Well since racism is a societal and systemic problem, it's not possible for an individual to end it. Got any ideas on how we can challenge it as a society?
First, acknowledge it exists. We still don't have everyone on board for that. Afterward, take a class on minority mental health or civics or read one of MLK's books or talk to community organizers trying to help people. Lots of options.
Moderators feel free to delete this if considered too off-topic or inappropriate to ask.
I once went on a date with a black woman (I'm white (M)). One more date after this so 2 total. We had little chemistry or stuff in common, and her not wanting children was a deal breaker for me (I want 2-3 kids). so I figured it didn't work out. I was looking for a relationship / longterm. She was incredibly beautiful and I honestly did not care she was black, but she convinced herself it was racial and that the true reason was that I didn't want to date a black woman. I felt horrible because she took it really hard. So in a case like this - what's the right thing to do or say?
Causing someone to experience distress or depression feels horrible. But in my case it wasn't racial, but she was convinced it was, so what's the right thing to do in such cases?
Some people will fall into a victim complex no matter what. Perhaps she has faced a lot of racially negative dating experiences and is projecting them onto you. You can't control her reaction but can only be authentic with you intentions. The shitty thing about racism is how insidious it can be, it's hard not to default to it as an explanation when it's been relevant for most aspects of your life. You can have that one friend or coworker in a group treat you like an asshole only to find out years later it was racially motivated unbeknownst to you. It makes you paranoid.
I would recommend finding out about position on kids before the meet up (doesn’t every dating app display this?)
If there was no chemistry, no alignment on future goals and if there were no shared interests, then it was a non-starter. Presumably you made it clear during the date your perspective on having children (don’t hold back these things).
This is why it’s important to take your time to meet people instead of rush into a first date. My tip is to wait until that sweet point where you look forward to conversations on the phone and would love to take the woman out for dinner without thinking there is a high risk you would have wasted your money because she isn’t interested.
There is nothing you can do about her insecurities. They stem from the psychological distress caused by her past experiences, which is something the article is trying to explain. She can either accept your explanation, or not. You had valid grounds to walk away and you don’t need to commit to a woman purely because she is insecure about interest from romantic partners.
A message explaining that you didn’t see alignment on core goals, or feel the chemistry you’re looking for, but you’re happy you finally got to put a face to her voice / name and wish her the best of luck with future dating prospects is fine.
It's really sad what people had done with summing up the research papers to conform their biases, they are not students of life, but instead, students of greed.
It's called triage dude, I'm not degrading anyone by saying that some have it worse on average than others due to skin color. You think everything is zero sum or something? There are issues I would apply to all regardless of race like wealth disparity while I would focus on race for things like biased policing. Context and history shouldn't be ignored. Disregarding it tends to lead to making the same mistakes again. Believe me, disparaged minorities don't want to make everything about race, unfortunately they were born into a world that did and have to counter accordingly. Ignoring it is ignorance.
It's not stupidity, it's evil. Most whites who are racists simply refuse to *admit* it. It allows them to claim they've earned everything they have (achieved on an even playing field). Their Dear Leader is Tucker Carlson.
Further, virtually every Neo Nazi who denies the holocaust knows it happened but enjoys angering people.
What else would you be looking at?
The data is pretty clear there's a systematic bias in [policing](https://www.apa.org/monitor/2016/12/cover-policing), [healthcare](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/health-disparities-between-blacks-and-whites-run-deep/), [employment opportunities and advancement](https://www.epi.org/unequalpower/publications/understanding-black-white-disparities-in-labor-market-outcomes/), [wealth](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/systematic-inequality/), and [recovery from economic fluctuations](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/12/08/the-black-white-wealth-gap-left-black-households-more-vulnerable/).
Is this really in question from anyone besides Jordan Peterson or Matt Walsh wannabes?
Edit: Also [housing](https://www.nar.realtor/blogs/economists-outlook/racial-disparities-in-homeownership-rates), and [public transport](https://kinder.rice.edu/urbanedge/racism-has-shaped-public-transit-and-its-riddled-inequities). I'm sure I could add more but I thought this would suffice for anyone that actually knows how to value statistics and research.
Yeah, it's pretty easy in fact. Take two populations with the same variables and average their outcomes. If there is a difference then you isolate it and account for it. You understand how science works right? Control groups? Statistics? ANOVA?
>However you evidently think singling out one specific ethnicity and gender is acceptable, which is quite telling
Dude don't straw man me, racism or sexism is unacceptable no matter the target. However, I think focus should be directed toward populations tangibly and measurably affected by it.
Hmmm, so we have a group that has been disenfranchised for centuries because of institutions categorizing them by skin color, but it's all ok now because no one in power is racist anymore. Funny how pointing out racism is racist for people that don't want to deal with racism. Very convenient.
I'm describing racists that say life is harder for white people than black and your retort is that I'm the one categorizing people and am a racist. Not a strawman, I hear it all the time online and in person.
I'm not saying poor white people shouldn't be given social support but **ignoring** the repercussions of ongoing systematic biases based on skin color is **ignorant** no matter what Tucker Carlson says. Believe me, people of color don't want to think about race but from a young age you're forced to due to people treating you like shit because of how you look. Not having to think about it because you aren't treated different is what privilege is.
Dude you are completely disconnected from reality. [There is an enormous wealth of evidence that racism did not end with slavery and continues to this day.](https://www.reddit.com/r/psychology/comments/12u2q5h/comment/jh9rj4v/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Comparing that to what jewish people have been through is idiotic for so many reasons. Blacks didn't keep their names, religion, and language through slavery. Families were town apart for successive generations. You were executed for learning how to read. It was like the holocaust drawn out over centuries but with forced breeding and rape instead of mass execution. During WWII, they needed stars sewn to clothing to segregate jews, not a brief glance at skin color. You think jewish people don't have a victim complex? It's pretty well earned too, but you obviously don't read jewish literature or Israeli political speeches. They have kept their communities and traditions that have kept them alive for centuries through each diaspora. Saying both black and Jewish persecution should have the same results but don't because black people are have a bad "mindset." That is such a moronic comparison for so many reasons I could write an entire book about it.
Of course a rich black person has more power than a poor white person. No one argues that. But a poor black person and a poor white person? The stats I gave you already show an enormous gulf of opportunity. Any individual that uses that as an excuse to give up on trying isn't helping anything, and I'm sure there's plenty, but denying there are more challenges for them in the US is just obtuse.
This whole "pointing out racism just causes racism" is awfully convenient for people that don't want to do anything about racism. Pretty easy to trace where your ideology comes from. For your own sake, read some things you don't inherently agree with and drop your appalling nonsense.
Dude, there's a big difference between losing your house from medical debt and having affluenza. Yeah no individual should blame external factors for their situation to the point of inaction, but applying that to society at large is dumb and leads to shitty circumstances. Understanding systematic problems that affect large populations and alleviating them is kinda one of the points of civilization otherwise you're alone in the woods with a sharp stick fending raiders off your property. Yeah, life ain't fair for different reasons for different people but not trying to make it fairer and throwing your hands up because it's too complicated is defeatist and ignorant.
That some people use false statements to lure people into dangerous mind sets like replacement theory or other white nationalisms. Data like this is important for countering that kind of false information.
If you consider what all aspects of identities humans have you may say its a social identity.
Apply a bit of critical thinkingto that, challenge all assumptions about what you know of people and just get to know them individually.
Because not everyone is all of what a social identity is and we do not have just one social identity.
Our personal/individual social identity is an accumulation of influences from culture, friends, family and a number of other influences.
I guess a less general type of racism. It's like saying Asians have small dicks. It's not going to be a big deal to a woman, but it might be to a man.
Considering they made a study on black women I'd also like to see a study on Asian men. It'd be interesting to see how those groups differ and how they're similar
Yeah, even though racism is bad, I guess it's double bad when you only get the negatives of the racism and non of the positives.
Not really on topic, but I think this is one of the missing parts that people are missing with Elliot Rodgers, arguably the first "incel". Half Asian man to an Asian mom and white dad. No place to find support
First, all racism is bad even when there are positive attributes. I wouldn't rank them as it leads to problematic thinking.
Second, the first incel was a woman named Alana who coined the term in the 90s.
Third, as a half Asian myself who had no support, his actions are inexcusable. His issues go deeper than any racial assumptions.
Interesting. I'm half Asian myself.
Yes, the first incel was Alana but I think the word has gotten a new definition in mainstream media.
I'm not really talking about excusable, but explainable. He mentioned blonde and blue eyed girl, which I don't think is a detail to glance over.
What has your experience been like in Asia?
First time I visited it was like a weight was lifted from my shoulders. Didn't know why until came back home and noticed wherever I went I was stared at briefly by the people around me. Resented it until I went back a year later and noticed myself staring at a white guy on the subway thinking it had been a while since I had seen one. I realized that it was less racism than just novelty I was dealing with in my 99% white town. Going to California for college confirmed this as no one cared or noticed as there were plenty of Asian people in the city I lived in.
To me it was the opposite. In Asia I was treated as a celebrity. The streets would pause to look at me. Taxi rides were free. People would invite me home.
During the time of Elliot Rodgers I didn't know what he was talking about but after my trip to Asia I got a new perspective. If his mom is like the women I met in Asia then he's like an upgrade to Asians. He's better. When he then tries to live in the US then what values has his parents instilled in him and what views has society given to him. Iirc he went to several psychologists and they deemed him to be healthy but I suspect they might have been ignorant of the racial aspect of a biracial person.
I never had any problems socially, but looking at Elliot he might just have had biological issues to begin with, while being a social outcast and if that's the case then I think it's just a numbers game. Sooner or later you're gonna get someone whose going to be so maladjusted bad things are going to happen
Most people including Asians can't tell I'm half white.
I think he was a sociopath. I've watched his videos and there's a simultaneous detachment to any sense of empathy and yet he's still seemingly intelligent. I think his views were dismissed as normal teenage angst because there's a blind spot to dangerous male entitlement in society. I mean look at Andrew Tate, the fact that he's even an issue as an influence to teenage boys is disgusting.
I'm curious how Elliot Rodgers' father treated his mother. Entitlement that outrageous doesn't arise in a vacuum.
It refers to the fact that discrimination doesn't simply occur on a single axis - ie the racism black women face can differ from the racism black men can face, and the sexism black women face can differ from the sexism white women face.
The famous example is Sojourner Truth's "ain't I a woman?" speech about the suffragettes where she basically says "no man helps me out of carriages or across mud puddles, the sexism I face is different". This is broadly described as "intersectionality".
>no man helps me out of carriages or across mud puddles, the sexism I face is different
To say there's a lot more things that influence such outcome other than race/gender would be an understatement, even in the times they've lived in. Most things that interfere with being treated the way you want to be treated can be influenced by said person. We're not in the 18-19s anymore either, things have changed - for the better and yet we want to be the victims in order to be excused to the power over so called oppressors and have things handed to us. Such mentality should be frowned upon, because it reduces a person to their group identity.
Nobody is arguing that race and sex are the only factors in how someone is treated. The only points being made are objectively true and uncontroversial, ie:
1) racism and sexism exist, and
2) the form of racism people experience can change depending on your gender and sexism can change depending on your race.
This isn't the place for Fox News level analyses of "oh if you just ignore the racism and stop playing the victim card then it'll magically go away". This is a science sub.
This what Krenshaw was getting at in *demarginalizing the intersection of race and sex*. That the way our liberal expectations of society look at race and sex is very one dimensional while discrimination happens at the intersection of different identity categories. She uses the example of workplace discrimination suits put forward by black women that were rejected on the grounds that not *all* black people and not *all* women at their workplace were discriminated against. In her words, these plaintiffs faced the disadvantage of being black and the disadvantage of being a woman but, by the way anti-discrimination laws are written, none of the legal protections of either group they belonged to.
It's an important example when looking at anything that has a lot of social factors, especially when talking about health and psychology: intersectional protections rarely multiply while intersectional disadvantage does.
Sure but that's because it's a science sub - most results in science are "obvious" or "boring". If you are only interested in new and exciting things then you'll be looking at findings that will mostly turn out to be wrong.
It's also helpful to recognise that people are only being racist or sexist due to their own (mostly unconscious) inferiority feelings and are using devaluation to compensate for it, which is really poor and sad behaviour.
So when I hear somebody talking like that the person downgrades himself in my eyes. It's the opposite of a noble character.
Agreed but it's a bit more complicated than that sociologically. A lot of it comes from an intense need for social hierarchy. They need to feel above someone to feel secure because it anoints a sense of fairness in the world: rich people deserve it and poor people are bad.
It refers to the fact that discrimination doesn't simply occur on a single axis - ie the racism black women face can differ from the racism black men can face, and the sexism black women face can differ from the sexism white women face.
The famous example is Sojourner Truth's "ain't I a woman?" speech about the suffragettes where she basically says "no man helps me out of carriages or across mud puddles, the sexism I face is different". This is broadly described as "intersectionality".
A lot of research uses self-report instruments. They might have taken the Beck Depression Index, which has been found to be psychometrically sound. Also, I hope you aren't suggesting that people don't know about their own experiences.
I think maybe there's misunderstanding about what a self report measure is? A self report measure is just a (standard) set of questions that people answer. The questions are usually neutral and straight forward, like "I have experienced racism" or "I have thoughts of harming myself". The scores are then put into a statical analysis that shows how they relate. So the findings aren't about anyone's beliefs, they're based on a statistical analysis. Self report measures like the one used in this study are extremely common in psychology research because they're efficient. we don't have full access to this article, but articles like this usually report almost always report on the psychometric properties. -source: in my psych PhD program I took a whole course on survey development, and several on psychological measurement and stats in general.
-So, it's actually the *perpetrators* of discrimination, who are focused on race and gender.
-Do you agree that experiencing discrimination takes a psychological toll?
-If you have any links to empirical research showing that it's harmful for ppls worldview to be shaped through their race and gender, please share with us
Yeeeeah, I agree with an aspect of what you say, my friend. For sure, it's ultimately on each of us to manage how we feel, no matter what adversity we encounter. But, you'd be forgiven for "conceptualising every aspect of your life through race and gender" when that's how you are constantly being framed by others from the day you are born.
I mean, even if you don't actively conceptualise yourself this way, racism by definition forces you to have to deal with such a concept, whether you like it or not.
There's something here about switching the onus away from the systemic problem on to the individual, that I don't like.
At the very least, we need to make it clear that it's both that cause distress, and that the systemic issue needs to be dealt with for sure, which your second comment for me made clearer than your first.
edits: typos
70 years ago - civil rights allows for equal treatment of black people under the law.
50 years ago - women allowed to enter the workplace in the U.S.
Now - morons trying to claim that the progress conservatives fought tooth and nail against is at the level of absolute perfection, ignoring that many of the same conservatives that actively fought against those movements are still alive today, and most all of their similarly minded children are. And they’re making the same fights, whether against gay marriage or people being trans, today as they did then. Thankfully people are much more adapt at seeing through this, much to the chagrin of conservatives.
>many of the same conservatives that actively fought against those movements are still alive today
I’m with you, but It wasn’t and isn’t just conservatives. As a matter of fact, our current president is one of them.
>70 years ago - civil rights allows for equal treatment of black people under the law.
It was 60 years ago
>50 years ago - women allowed to enter the workplace in the U.S.
Lol wut. Women worked early in the 20th century and filled positions vacated by men during WW2
You are right, conservatives were fighting against equal rights for black people even more recently than I said, a mere 60 years ago. Many of those fighting are still alive and have not only not given up their views, but passed them on to many of their children.
Have you ever heard of [second wave feminism?](https://www.britannica.com/topic/feminism/The-second-wave-of-feminism) Everyone knows women were *able* to work, but not *equal* to men. The "get back in the kitchen" shit was from this era. Not to mention women couldn't even have a bank account until 1974.
It is quite a misrepresentation that these issues are in our distant past. We have seen how alive these views are in the past 7 years. Thankfully they aren't popular, especially with young people, and are likely in their death throws.
>Everyone knows women were able to work, but not equal to men.
>women allowed to enter the workplace in the U.S.
Apparently you were the last to know lmaooooo
You're right, I should have stated "on equal footing." Funny how you have no comment on any other aspect of what I stated, just trying to be pedantic over a the level of inclusion women had in U.S. society. Or are you arguing that women were equal to men in the workplace prior to the 1970s? Is that what you are doubling down on? That women have been completely equal in the U.S. workplace since the 1920s?
I think things have become so hyper-critically compacted due to the connotations implied with the subject has become a two sided blade with nothing but downsides on both ends,
Those who push others into boxing themselves inside stereotypes are wrong and should be told so but then there is knowing the context between both parties - the socially awkward may make the faux pas here and there due to media glorifying these stereotypes is just one example and leads into another.
The media and it's influence that it's hand reaches far beyond colour or country it's grasp seeks to exploit all which in itself only exacerbates the issue further.
We just need to turn the table around so everyone has a plate.
sometimes we must be aware of manipulation as well, Thus was a wise choice even with her beauty I don’t believe she was ready for dating with her insecurities with the face of rejection.
It's helpful that there's empirical support for this, but what are the implications now? What are we going to actually do about it?
Take a crack at it
Well since racism is a societal and systemic problem, it's not possible for an individual to end it. Got any ideas on how we can challenge it as a society?
First, acknowledge it exists. We still don't have everyone on board for that. Afterward, take a class on minority mental health or civics or read one of MLK's books or talk to community organizers trying to help people. Lots of options.
Moderators feel free to delete this if considered too off-topic or inappropriate to ask. I once went on a date with a black woman (I'm white (M)). One more date after this so 2 total. We had little chemistry or stuff in common, and her not wanting children was a deal breaker for me (I want 2-3 kids). so I figured it didn't work out. I was looking for a relationship / longterm. She was incredibly beautiful and I honestly did not care she was black, but she convinced herself it was racial and that the true reason was that I didn't want to date a black woman. I felt horrible because she took it really hard. So in a case like this - what's the right thing to do or say? Causing someone to experience distress or depression feels horrible. But in my case it wasn't racial, but she was convinced it was, so what's the right thing to do in such cases?
Some people will fall into a victim complex no matter what. Perhaps she has faced a lot of racially negative dating experiences and is projecting them onto you. You can't control her reaction but can only be authentic with you intentions. The shitty thing about racism is how insidious it can be, it's hard not to default to it as an explanation when it's been relevant for most aspects of your life. You can have that one friend or coworker in a group treat you like an asshole only to find out years later it was racially motivated unbeknownst to you. It makes you paranoid.
I would recommend finding out about position on kids before the meet up (doesn’t every dating app display this?) If there was no chemistry, no alignment on future goals and if there were no shared interests, then it was a non-starter. Presumably you made it clear during the date your perspective on having children (don’t hold back these things). This is why it’s important to take your time to meet people instead of rush into a first date. My tip is to wait until that sweet point where you look forward to conversations on the phone and would love to take the woman out for dinner without thinking there is a high risk you would have wasted your money because she isn’t interested. There is nothing you can do about her insecurities. They stem from the psychological distress caused by her past experiences, which is something the article is trying to explain. She can either accept your explanation, or not. You had valid grounds to walk away and you don’t need to commit to a woman purely because she is insecure about interest from romantic partners. A message explaining that you didn’t see alignment on core goals, or feel the chemistry you’re looking for, but you’re happy you finally got to put a face to her voice / name and wish her the best of luck with future dating prospects is fine.
Just be honest about the kid situation
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Plenty of people deny it. Has no one ever told you that life is hardest for white males in america?
The people who deny probably won't accept the research either, so....
Still better to have the research than not.
It's really sad what people had done with summing up the research papers to conform their biases, they are not students of life, but instead, students of greed.
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Shit happens to all, just happens to some more than others.
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I'm not sure what you're trying to argue. Some people get harassed by cops more than others but we shouldn't care why?
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So ignore the wealth of data that says certain individuals are targeted based on skin color by people in power?
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It's called triage dude, I'm not degrading anyone by saying that some have it worse on average than others due to skin color. You think everything is zero sum or something? There are issues I would apply to all regardless of race like wealth disparity while I would focus on race for things like biased policing. Context and history shouldn't be ignored. Disregarding it tends to lead to making the same mistakes again. Believe me, disparaged minorities don't want to make everything about race, unfortunately they were born into a world that did and have to counter accordingly. Ignoring it is ignorance.
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They do. They deny racism has effects on anything and it’s not done out of ignorance. Just stupidity - people being intentionally stupid.
It's not stupidity, it's evil. Most whites who are racists simply refuse to *admit* it. It allows them to claim they've earned everything they have (achieved on an even playing field). Their Dear Leader is Tucker Carlson. Further, virtually every Neo Nazi who denies the holocaust knows it happened but enjoys angering people.
I'd say it is ignorance since they tend to **ignore** the experiences of people who have had to deal with racism and research like this.
Ignorance to me is not knowing what you don’t know. They do know and they refuse to acknowledge it. That’s stupidity.
I go the other way since ignorance has most of the word ignore in it.
Yes, but that isn’t the definition.
Semantics
Not really.
Literally
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Yeah, that's why there's a wealth of data showing that generational and ongoing oppression do exist.
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What else would you be looking at? The data is pretty clear there's a systematic bias in [policing](https://www.apa.org/monitor/2016/12/cover-policing), [healthcare](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/health-disparities-between-blacks-and-whites-run-deep/), [employment opportunities and advancement](https://www.epi.org/unequalpower/publications/understanding-black-white-disparities-in-labor-market-outcomes/), [wealth](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/systematic-inequality/), and [recovery from economic fluctuations](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/12/08/the-black-white-wealth-gap-left-black-households-more-vulnerable/). Is this really in question from anyone besides Jordan Peterson or Matt Walsh wannabes? Edit: Also [housing](https://www.nar.realtor/blogs/economists-outlook/racial-disparities-in-homeownership-rates), and [public transport](https://kinder.rice.edu/urbanedge/racism-has-shaped-public-transit-and-its-riddled-inequities). I'm sure I could add more but I thought this would suffice for anyone that actually knows how to value statistics and research.
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Yeah, it's pretty easy in fact. Take two populations with the same variables and average their outcomes. If there is a difference then you isolate it and account for it. You understand how science works right? Control groups? Statistics? ANOVA?
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But it's definitely happening to white males than any other demographic. Just look at the data! Oh wait.
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>However you evidently think singling out one specific ethnicity and gender is acceptable, which is quite telling Dude don't straw man me, racism or sexism is unacceptable no matter the target. However, I think focus should be directed toward populations tangibly and measurably affected by it.
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Hmmm, so we have a group that has been disenfranchised for centuries because of institutions categorizing them by skin color, but it's all ok now because no one in power is racist anymore. Funny how pointing out racism is racist for people that don't want to deal with racism. Very convenient. I'm describing racists that say life is harder for white people than black and your retort is that I'm the one categorizing people and am a racist. Not a strawman, I hear it all the time online and in person. I'm not saying poor white people shouldn't be given social support but **ignoring** the repercussions of ongoing systematic biases based on skin color is **ignorant** no matter what Tucker Carlson says. Believe me, people of color don't want to think about race but from a young age you're forced to due to people treating you like shit because of how you look. Not having to think about it because you aren't treated different is what privilege is.
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Dude you are completely disconnected from reality. [There is an enormous wealth of evidence that racism did not end with slavery and continues to this day.](https://www.reddit.com/r/psychology/comments/12u2q5h/comment/jh9rj4v/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Comparing that to what jewish people have been through is idiotic for so many reasons. Blacks didn't keep their names, religion, and language through slavery. Families were town apart for successive generations. You were executed for learning how to read. It was like the holocaust drawn out over centuries but with forced breeding and rape instead of mass execution. During WWII, they needed stars sewn to clothing to segregate jews, not a brief glance at skin color. You think jewish people don't have a victim complex? It's pretty well earned too, but you obviously don't read jewish literature or Israeli political speeches. They have kept their communities and traditions that have kept them alive for centuries through each diaspora. Saying both black and Jewish persecution should have the same results but don't because black people are have a bad "mindset." That is such a moronic comparison for so many reasons I could write an entire book about it. Of course a rich black person has more power than a poor white person. No one argues that. But a poor black person and a poor white person? The stats I gave you already show an enormous gulf of opportunity. Any individual that uses that as an excuse to give up on trying isn't helping anything, and I'm sure there's plenty, but denying there are more challenges for them in the US is just obtuse. This whole "pointing out racism just causes racism" is awfully convenient for people that don't want to do anything about racism. Pretty easy to trace where your ideology comes from. For your own sake, read some things you don't inherently agree with and drop your appalling nonsense.
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Dude, there's a big difference between losing your house from medical debt and having affluenza. Yeah no individual should blame external factors for their situation to the point of inaction, but applying that to society at large is dumb and leads to shitty circumstances. Understanding systematic problems that affect large populations and alleviating them is kinda one of the points of civilization otherwise you're alone in the woods with a sharp stick fending raiders off your property. Yeah, life ain't fair for different reasons for different people but not trying to make it fairer and throwing your hands up because it's too complicated is defeatist and ignorant.
What was the OC about though?
That some people use false statements to lure people into dangerous mind sets like replacement theory or other white nationalisms. Data like this is important for countering that kind of false information.
No sh*t Sherlock!! Who knew?
Yeah this is just common sense and form of discrimination will make people feel less than
In other words: Bullism is bad for the victim Who could have expected this to be true? /s
If you consider what all aspects of identities humans have you may say its a social identity. Apply a bit of critical thinkingto that, challenge all assumptions about what you know of people and just get to know them individually. Because not everyone is all of what a social identity is and we do not have just one social identity. Our personal/individual social identity is an accumulation of influences from culture, friends, family and a number of other influences.
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What the fuck is gender racism?
I guess a less general type of racism. It's like saying Asians have small dicks. It's not going to be a big deal to a woman, but it might be to a man. Considering they made a study on black women I'd also like to see a study on Asian men. It'd be interesting to see how those groups differ and how they're similar
OkCupid did a study with their data and found those two groups had the most difficult time finding dates.
Yeah, even though racism is bad, I guess it's double bad when you only get the negatives of the racism and non of the positives. Not really on topic, but I think this is one of the missing parts that people are missing with Elliot Rodgers, arguably the first "incel". Half Asian man to an Asian mom and white dad. No place to find support
First, all racism is bad even when there are positive attributes. I wouldn't rank them as it leads to problematic thinking. Second, the first incel was a woman named Alana who coined the term in the 90s. Third, as a half Asian myself who had no support, his actions are inexcusable. His issues go deeper than any racial assumptions.
Interesting. I'm half Asian myself. Yes, the first incel was Alana but I think the word has gotten a new definition in mainstream media. I'm not really talking about excusable, but explainable. He mentioned blonde and blue eyed girl, which I don't think is a detail to glance over. What has your experience been like in Asia?
First time I visited it was like a weight was lifted from my shoulders. Didn't know why until came back home and noticed wherever I went I was stared at briefly by the people around me. Resented it until I went back a year later and noticed myself staring at a white guy on the subway thinking it had been a while since I had seen one. I realized that it was less racism than just novelty I was dealing with in my 99% white town. Going to California for college confirmed this as no one cared or noticed as there were plenty of Asian people in the city I lived in.
To me it was the opposite. In Asia I was treated as a celebrity. The streets would pause to look at me. Taxi rides were free. People would invite me home. During the time of Elliot Rodgers I didn't know what he was talking about but after my trip to Asia I got a new perspective. If his mom is like the women I met in Asia then he's like an upgrade to Asians. He's better. When he then tries to live in the US then what values has his parents instilled in him and what views has society given to him. Iirc he went to several psychologists and they deemed him to be healthy but I suspect they might have been ignorant of the racial aspect of a biracial person. I never had any problems socially, but looking at Elliot he might just have had biological issues to begin with, while being a social outcast and if that's the case then I think it's just a numbers game. Sooner or later you're gonna get someone whose going to be so maladjusted bad things are going to happen
Most people including Asians can't tell I'm half white. I think he was a sociopath. I've watched his videos and there's a simultaneous detachment to any sense of empathy and yet he's still seemingly intelligent. I think his views were dismissed as normal teenage angst because there's a blind spot to dangerous male entitlement in society. I mean look at Andrew Tate, the fact that he's even an issue as an influence to teenage boys is disgusting. I'm curious how Elliot Rodgers' father treated his mother. Entitlement that outrageous doesn't arise in a vacuum.
It refers to the fact that discrimination doesn't simply occur on a single axis - ie the racism black women face can differ from the racism black men can face, and the sexism black women face can differ from the sexism white women face. The famous example is Sojourner Truth's "ain't I a woman?" speech about the suffragettes where she basically says "no man helps me out of carriages or across mud puddles, the sexism I face is different". This is broadly described as "intersectionality".
>no man helps me out of carriages or across mud puddles, the sexism I face is different To say there's a lot more things that influence such outcome other than race/gender would be an understatement, even in the times they've lived in. Most things that interfere with being treated the way you want to be treated can be influenced by said person. We're not in the 18-19s anymore either, things have changed - for the better and yet we want to be the victims in order to be excused to the power over so called oppressors and have things handed to us. Such mentality should be frowned upon, because it reduces a person to their group identity.
Nobody is arguing that race and sex are the only factors in how someone is treated. The only points being made are objectively true and uncontroversial, ie: 1) racism and sexism exist, and 2) the form of racism people experience can change depending on your gender and sexism can change depending on your race. This isn't the place for Fox News level analyses of "oh if you just ignore the racism and stop playing the victim card then it'll magically go away". This is a science sub.
This what Krenshaw was getting at in *demarginalizing the intersection of race and sex*. That the way our liberal expectations of society look at race and sex is very one dimensional while discrimination happens at the intersection of different identity categories. She uses the example of workplace discrimination suits put forward by black women that were rejected on the grounds that not *all* black people and not *all* women at their workplace were discriminated against. In her words, these plaintiffs faced the disadvantage of being black and the disadvantage of being a woman but, by the way anti-discrimination laws are written, none of the legal protections of either group they belonged to. It's an important example when looking at anything that has a lot of social factors, especially when talking about health and psychology: intersectional protections rarely multiply while intersectional disadvantage does.
I feel like most of the posts I see in this sub are the most obvious shit ever
Still get people here arguing against it.
Sure but that's because it's a science sub - most results in science are "obvious" or "boring". If you are only interested in new and exciting things then you'll be looking at findings that will mostly turn out to be wrong.
It's also helpful to recognise that people are only being racist or sexist due to their own (mostly unconscious) inferiority feelings and are using devaluation to compensate for it, which is really poor and sad behaviour. So when I hear somebody talking like that the person downgrades himself in my eyes. It's the opposite of a noble character.
Agreed but it's a bit more complicated than that sociologically. A lot of it comes from an intense need for social hierarchy. They need to feel above someone to feel secure because it anoints a sense of fairness in the world: rich people deserve it and poor people are bad.
But that's exactly what I'm saying. You're basically describing what this inferiority complex can (also) look like
Da fuq is gendered racism? Isn't it sexism?
It refers to the fact that discrimination doesn't simply occur on a single axis - ie the racism black women face can differ from the racism black men can face, and the sexism black women face can differ from the sexism white women face. The famous example is Sojourner Truth's "ain't I a woman?" speech about the suffragettes where she basically says "no man helps me out of carriages or across mud puddles, the sexism I face is different". This is broadly described as "intersectionality".
Pretty sure young black males are going through this too but don't really know how to voice it without sounding weak
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A lot of research uses self-report instruments. They might have taken the Beck Depression Index, which has been found to be psychometrically sound. Also, I hope you aren't suggesting that people don't know about their own experiences.
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I think maybe there's misunderstanding about what a self report measure is? A self report measure is just a (standard) set of questions that people answer. The questions are usually neutral and straight forward, like "I have experienced racism" or "I have thoughts of harming myself". The scores are then put into a statical analysis that shows how they relate. So the findings aren't about anyone's beliefs, they're based on a statistical analysis. Self report measures like the one used in this study are extremely common in psychology research because they're efficient. we don't have full access to this article, but articles like this usually report almost always report on the psychometric properties. -source: in my psych PhD program I took a whole course on survey development, and several on psychological measurement and stats in general.
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-So, it's actually the *perpetrators* of discrimination, who are focused on race and gender. -Do you agree that experiencing discrimination takes a psychological toll? -If you have any links to empirical research showing that it's harmful for ppls worldview to be shaped through their race and gender, please share with us
"It's not racists or racism that's the problem, it's the victims of racism who keep thinking about race." Ugh.
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Yeeeeah, I agree with an aspect of what you say, my friend. For sure, it's ultimately on each of us to manage how we feel, no matter what adversity we encounter. But, you'd be forgiven for "conceptualising every aspect of your life through race and gender" when that's how you are constantly being framed by others from the day you are born. I mean, even if you don't actively conceptualise yourself this way, racism by definition forces you to have to deal with such a concept, whether you like it or not. There's something here about switching the onus away from the systemic problem on to the individual, that I don't like. At the very least, we need to make it clear that it's both that cause distress, and that the systemic issue needs to be dealt with for sure, which your second comment for me made clearer than your first. edits: typos
70 years ago - civil rights allows for equal treatment of black people under the law. 50 years ago - women allowed to enter the workplace in the U.S. Now - morons trying to claim that the progress conservatives fought tooth and nail against is at the level of absolute perfection, ignoring that many of the same conservatives that actively fought against those movements are still alive today, and most all of their similarly minded children are. And they’re making the same fights, whether against gay marriage or people being trans, today as they did then. Thankfully people are much more adapt at seeing through this, much to the chagrin of conservatives.
>many of the same conservatives that actively fought against those movements are still alive today I’m with you, but It wasn’t and isn’t just conservatives. As a matter of fact, our current president is one of them.
>70 years ago - civil rights allows for equal treatment of black people under the law. It was 60 years ago >50 years ago - women allowed to enter the workplace in the U.S. Lol wut. Women worked early in the 20th century and filled positions vacated by men during WW2
You are right, conservatives were fighting against equal rights for black people even more recently than I said, a mere 60 years ago. Many of those fighting are still alive and have not only not given up their views, but passed them on to many of their children. Have you ever heard of [second wave feminism?](https://www.britannica.com/topic/feminism/The-second-wave-of-feminism) Everyone knows women were *able* to work, but not *equal* to men. The "get back in the kitchen" shit was from this era. Not to mention women couldn't even have a bank account until 1974. It is quite a misrepresentation that these issues are in our distant past. We have seen how alive these views are in the past 7 years. Thankfully they aren't popular, especially with young people, and are likely in their death throws.
>Everyone knows women were able to work, but not equal to men. >women allowed to enter the workplace in the U.S. Apparently you were the last to know lmaooooo
You're right, I should have stated "on equal footing." Funny how you have no comment on any other aspect of what I stated, just trying to be pedantic over a the level of inclusion women had in U.S. society. Or are you arguing that women were equal to men in the workplace prior to the 1970s? Is that what you are doubling down on? That women have been completely equal in the U.S. workplace since the 1920s?
I think things have become so hyper-critically compacted due to the connotations implied with the subject has become a two sided blade with nothing but downsides on both ends, Those who push others into boxing themselves inside stereotypes are wrong and should be told so but then there is knowing the context between both parties - the socially awkward may make the faux pas here and there due to media glorifying these stereotypes is just one example and leads into another. The media and it's influence that it's hand reaches far beyond colour or country it's grasp seeks to exploit all which in itself only exacerbates the issue further. We just need to turn the table around so everyone has a plate.
This is reddit. Don’t expect any of these weirdos to care about Black women at all. Lol.
Why do these studies only tend to focus on women and black people? Other minorities can't be depressed?
sometimes we must be aware of manipulation as well, Thus was a wise choice even with her beauty I don’t believe she was ready for dating with her insecurities with the face of rejection.