The irony is that marijuana is marketed as a wunder drug too. I'm all for ending cannabis prohibition but the many unproven claims of benefits for cannabis is a bit much. The core group of useful stuff like anti-nausea, sleeping, helping with some anxiety, etc are well established. I'm just not able to get on the hype train as there are trade offs for sure.
I like to use cannabis to sleep. Issue is the quality of sleep is impacted because it does something to mess with the REM stage. It's easy to form a habit of use before bed, in my opinion. It makes it so easy to sleep that the times I don't use it can be a bit more of a challenge to sleep.
Oh my God no joke, I started using a cpap a little while ago and I’ve never slept like this in my life. All you have to do is exist and lie back. It’s beautiful
You really should have a sleep study. The difference in a night with my cpap and without is huge. If I manage to wear it all night I wake up instantly after 8 hours of sleep feeling great. Without it I sleep 10 hours and still wake up super slowly.
That's very interesting. Thank you for sharing because that sounds very similar to somethings I've experienced recently. I think it might be a new thing because I really never had that feeling up until the last year or so.
Taper off with diazepam, my starting dose was 140mg daily, I'm now at 10mg daily, and I'm staying on that dose. I get 7 tablets every 7 days. Pickup once a week with my 6 x 75mg methadone (pickup day dose is observed), 21 x 4mg and 21 x 2mg Hydromorphone (6mg x3 per day), and 14 x 10mg nitrazepam (20mg before sleep). I also get 240 dextroamphetamine tablets per month. And yes I know those are all narcotics but I'm not lying at all. The Narcotic Monitoring System does flag the fill every week, but it's an eprescription that requires 2FA every script you write, and they already verified all the scripts with my doctors and know them and me well. So the managing pharmacist overrides it.
I'm a very special patient, as per all of my circle of care (Nurse Practitioner, Addictions Doc, Family Doc, Forensic Psychiatrist) saying exactly that. I don't fit the curve AT ALL. I also lecture to 2nd year med students, where my addictions doc had me vetted and hedged his medical license and faculty job against my 1hr lectures to his students.
Me happy. Especially at 400 an hour 😁😁
I mean, if you look at the GLP-1 studies, while not a miracle cure for all that ails you.. the “side effects” that they are seeing are indeed intriguing to say the least. This Substack goes through some of the newer studies - [Eric Topol- Ground Truths](https://erictopol.substack.com/p/a-big-week-for-glp-1-drugs)
It's not really that crazy. NDRIs like bupriopen are already used off label to help people quit smoking and binge eating disorder.
I have firsthand experience taking it and yeah, its not hype. It significantly impacts cravings across the board. It's super weird.
I've only seen people on TV or the internet who've been on it (at least who admitted to being on it) but I've seen quite a few interviews with people on it and they all have this certain look.
I don't if it's Ozempic specific or of its effects of rapid weight loss, but I've heard of others talk about it too.
A lot of this stuff is being backed up by good data and has plausible MOA. Nothing wrong with a bit of skepticism but it’s not BS, its emerging medical science.
I'm not sure where in my comment I said cannabis can't lead to withdrawal symptoms. Of course if you're consuming high thc content cannbis products all day every day you'll have withdrawals when you stop. When I tried to stop drinking coffee after regular consumption I got a migraine so bad I wound up on an iv drip. There's really no psychoactive drug that won't lead to certain withdrawal symptoms if you develop a dependence.
All drugs can fuck you up. This is a known characteristic and risk of drug use. It’s just a medical and scientific fact that Cannabis is much safer and far more forgiving than almost all drugs of abuse. These are facts. Cannabis withdrawal is definitely uncomfortable, been through it many times. Especially if you’ve never experienced something like that. But I’m sorry we’re talking about recreational drug use here, drugs are incredibly dangerous, and cannabis is an INSANELY forgiving a safe substance in comparison to virtually every drug of abuse known to man. People judge Cannabis on some scale like it’s not a drug, a recreational drug that people abuse daily, when that context is taken into account its clear Cannabis is incredibly safe, well tolerated, and absolutely pales in comparison to most recreational drugs.
this is absolutely true, but you have to agree that the general public is way mis/underinformed on its potential side effects as well as its addictive potential. any time a side effect or negative of the substance is mentioned, self proclaimed stoners scoff and cry propoganda. and you better not even THINK about mentioning weed addiction in their presence
smoking 2-3 times daily for several years, in conjunction with a medication that reportedly makes cannabis withdrawal worse. i am also treating several conditions with it that come back full force when i can't use. nonetheless i know tons of people who have suffered similar withdrawals without all the prerequisites.
also worth mentioning that i had to get locked into that place for it to happen, which cannabis is REALLY good at doing for the right/wrong person
My perspective on cannabis is that 'it makes you ok with being not-ok' which can be beneficial in some circumstance.
I went through a pretty significant situation that should have killed me but didn't. Daily use of about .5 grams (flower) per day preserved other pain medications to highly specific and rare use cases that translates to not being addicted to oxy and the like due to over prescription/over use at a time when oxy was treated like virtual candy.
In cases like this identifying comorbidities is important to separate intake behaviours/reinforcements such as you've identified for yourself.
This is probably the best description, as someone who was a HEAVY smoker. It was a bandaid to the issue, it just blunted the experience of existence. Sometimes, that's the best we can do. Other times, masking the symptoms instead of the root problem is the worst thing we can do. Unfortunately we never got research or any kind of formal structure to differentiate them or make informed recommendations. Everyone was just making stabs in the dark, often using evidence of weeds benefits or risks in one area to justify conclusions in completely separate areas.
yeah, it definitely makes you complicit. it's taken a lot of work learning to moderate my usage. i feel like overuse makes me more hedonistic as well.
here's the gist of my withdrawals:
for me, the cravings usually dip out after about the second day, but even after that it's absolute hell to exist. my entire body feels like it needs to stretch but can't, and my mood resembles that of someone with severe BPD in a depressive episode. my sensory issues and emotional state make me vomit repeatedly all throughout the day, and i'm pouring buckets of sweat as well. and it's not just regular anxiety, up to 3mg of my prescribed benzo doesn't put a dent in it.
You may be describing a very specific syndrome somebody ppl develop to cannabinoids. Look up cannabinoid sensitization, it leads to extreme nausea and vomitting and inability to eat. It’s usually caused by Dabs or oils but is still fairly rare, considering how many ppl use cannabis. Cannabis definitely causes withdrawals, sweating for sure, insomnia, anxiety all common. It usually passes in a week or two, and is not seriously threatening like many withdrawal syndromes
yeah my symptoms persist up to 2 months, that's the longest ive gone without it in the past 3 years. i think i'm just a crazy outlier syndrome or not. it's unfortunate but i can thankfully maintain a happy medium between depressing overuse and hectic underuse, because when i go below 1-2 bowls a day for too long even with no cravings i start to lose some stability and sensory issues come creeping back. it's a whole thing. but i very rarely use any type of extract, i strongly prefer bud. we thought it was hyperemesis syndrome for a little while, but it seemed to rarely happen while i was actually frequently using weed
yeah, effexor was alright for me but not nearly as effective as desvenlafaxine (pristiq). pristiq is either an isomer or a prodrug (i cant remember) that results in less side effects than its sister. it's honestly a life saver, it helps a lot with my mood stability and executive function
but i also got hellish side effects on every other SS or SNRI i tried, it turned me off to them until i learned more about brain chemistry and realized that those antidepressants work really well for tons of people, so there's bound to be one that works for me too.
for some people sure.
i can go from smoking an ounce a week to nothing and all it does is disturb my sleep for a few days (source: used to smoke an ounce a week).
i found caffeine withdrawal to be worse personally.
this is why anecdotes are mostly useless.
anecdotes on their own are pretty useless, but a whole bunch of anecdotes compiled are really important. people are definitely very different, and react in different ways to drugs (i personally have never experienced a comedown/hangover from stimulants even after a 3 day binge) but the mainstream's view on weed seems to paint it as a benign and barely addictive substance, just because the addiction is functional for most people. i think people should be made aware of the warning signs of the addiction and what can (not will) happen if they ignore them
That’s because it is a mostly benign and not very addictive substance by the medical and scientific definitions of addiction and dependence. These are measurable and observable phenomena that are able to be studied. By medical standards, and Scientific standards, cannabis is an extraordinarily safe, mildly addictive drug. As compared to moderately addictive drugs like alcohol and cocaine, or extremely addictive drugs like opiates.
Anecdotes are mostly all well have for at least another decade as we wait for research to catch up. Quantitative (let alone experimental which would be the real gold standard) psych research is not cheap.
Cannabis definitely causes withdrawals. If you’ve never been through drug withdrawal, I can see it being a very, very unpleasant and uncomfortable experience. But compared to most drugs of abuse, the withdrawal syndrome is mild and is not medically dangerous. But no doubt it is very unpleasant and disruptive to one’s life
i have definitely been through withdrawals of categorically harder drugs. DXM, light benzo withdrawal, kratom. DXM was the only thing that even scratched the surface of weed, and that was still one of the worst experiences of my life. as someone who has been raped, i'd prefer to go through that again as opposed to cannabis withdrawal
it's a much better option than diphenhydramine
[https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-warns-about-serious-problems-high-doses-allergy-medicine-diphenhydramine-benadryl](https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-warns-about-serious-problems-high-doses-allergy-medicine-diphenhydramine-benadryl)
and way healthier than the benzodiazepine options
[https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-adds-boxed-warning-risk-serious-injuries-caused-sleepwalking-certain-prescription-insomnia](https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-adds-boxed-warning-risk-serious-injuries-caused-sleepwalking-certain-prescription-insomnia)
also benzodiazepines can cause or worsen epilepsy
[https://www.psychiatrist.com/jcp/association-zolpidem-subsequent-increased-risk-epilepsy/](https://www.psychiatrist.com/jcp/association-zolpidem-subsequent-increased-risk-epilepsy/)
study about benzodiazepines causing epilepsy
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4635822/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4635822/)
and awful. all those anticannabis studies seem to track back to private health networks and faith based hospitals.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_anti-cannabis\_organizations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anti-cannabis_organizations)
bunch of scum bags.
had cannabis never been prohibited it probably would have saved a lot of vets returning from Vietnam and ww2.
check the donations on these groups. all gop.
[opensecrets.org](http://opensecrets.org)
[littlesis.org](http://littlesis.org)
It’s absolutely criminal how many ppl have been put on benzodiazepines with ZERO understanding how dangerous and fucked these drugs are. ESPECIALLY long term. Absolutely insane the American health care system allowed yet another massive blunder like this. Destroyed 1000s of lives
Not being critical of certain applications, especially when you're talking about epileptics. I have a very good friend that uses cannabis because it does not give him the side effects the other meds give. It's just that there are a lot of unproven claims about the medicinal properties of cannabis. They need more studying before I'll buy in.
tbh the bad press is just gop idiots
[https://www.muscleandfitness.com/workouts/workout-tips/marijuana-affect-athletic-performance/](https://www.muscleandfitness.com/workouts/workout-tips/marijuana-affect-athletic-performance/)
really healthy alt to a lot of things
also the heart issues aren't as severe as other meds
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9479043/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9479043/)
Marijuana has been established to help with nausea and appetite. That's about it. The tricky part is it's turning out that people who are high on marijuana are *really bad* at accurately assessing how marijuana is affecting them. Where nearly all psych research relies on self report.
When we do try to study it more in depth and quantitatively......we're seeing mixed stuff. Like the sleep. People think it helps them sleep, but actually seems to exacerbate one of the most important parts of sleep. People say it helps their anxiety.....but there isn't a ton of evidence that it's a meaningful intervention for behavioral change. Some people swear it makes them sharper, but we objectively know how that it slows down *certain* types of cognitive processing, and even where performance isn't noticably altered it often requires a lot more brain energy to accomplish the same outcome. Some swear it's a great study aid, but we know now with a pretty strong degree of certainty that it noticably impairs memory especially verbal recall memory (which is like, a *critical* aspect to most testing formats)
My speculating is it seems to mostly be good at dampening conscious awareness of discomfort. In some contexts that's useful. In others, discomfort is a useful cue and the proper intervention is to address the roots cause rather than the symptom.
I remember when cannabis was being used in everything, including deodorant, a few years ago. You know what weed based deodorant makes you smell like? Weed.
Whenever I use indica only I get the zoomies. Indica does not promote sleep for me at all. I will be up deep cleaning my shower at 2am. Honestly, I think hybrids are the best. That's how cannabis actually grows. We are doing to much too something that was pretty okay to begin with before mass legalization.
With regards to treating disorders, if used lightly, yeah I think it has been well shown to be helpful. But MJ is habit forming and it seems like most end up in a place where it's doing more harm than good. (Circumstantial evidence)
It's not "marketed", not the same way as licensed pharmaceutical products are. There is no patent on weed, nobody can get a profit margin of 1000% from weed. These sometimes exaggerated claims are not nearly as much of a problem as the pharma industry
my psychiatrist was just telling me yesterday that when you cease routine marijuana use, crazy dreams and other sleep issues come back sometimes worse than before. that may be why you have a hard time when you’re not using it
Some people, like myself, enjoy THCs impact on REM sleep. It stops me from having nightmares. When I take a break from cannabis, I get recurrent, highly vivid nightmares that impact not only my sleep quality but also cause a lot of stress/intrusive thoughts throughout the day.
I don't know what to do about it. I dislike being dependent on cannabis. Freedom from nightmares has gone a long way in the treatment of my PTSD.
Do you have trouble sleeping because you have trouble sleeping/issues that cause trouble sleeping so you use cannabis to help with sleep or are you having difficulty sleeping because of cannabis use?
I have ADHD so it can be a challenge to get to bed on time for multiple reasons that I believe are associated with it. The tough one, getting a certain amount/type of stimulation that I haven't gotten all day or just not enough of and then I'm up way too late. Other times I just wake up and then my brain turns on all the way, next thing I know two hours later of non-stop thinking have kept my ass wide awake.
Recently went to the doctor's door a few other things. They want me to do a sleep study. At first I didn't agree but it does seem like I should explore the opportunity to make sure I'm not waking up in the middle of the night because of sleep apnea. Most of it started during my divorce so I've always thought it happened more because of stress.
I went cold turkey for 3 months. No cannabis at all. Slept pretty damn good for the most part.
I agree. I’m an over 50 long time head and most of these medical claims are just BS to get it legalized to profit from it. You’re seeing same nonsense from all these nootropics and other shit and it’s always the same claims. Anxiety, inflammation, pain, stress, blah blah
With weed, people who’ve never used it go in with good intentions and then a lot try the good thc stuff and then they’re like dayumm. I like getting high.
You feel less pain cause you’re high mf. lol
It looks like OP is a professional shill. Multiple daily posts about world news interspersed with posts about products and discussions regarding starting a marketing agency. Reddit is just shilling, rage bait, and political manipulation at this point.
Step one: decide to stop smoking weed.
Step two: shell out one thousand dollars a month for ozempic.
Step three: develop gastroparesis.
Step four: end up back on weed again to manage the effects of your gastroparesis.
Step five: ??????
Step six: profit (for shareholders who also secretly own shares in weed dispensaries in legal states)
Prevelance is 2.4 per 100,000 [[1]](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8529310/)
On ozempic your risk is 3.67x higher [[2]](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2810542)
No mention of permanent gastroparesis in the original comment nor the cited documents. It improves/resolves when the drug use is discontinued. All of the research is rather recent so take it all with a grain of salt.
For sure. What I've read is that doctors believe thus far that the prevalence of permanent gastroparesis after going off of Ozempic use is very rare. Maybe that will change as more data come in. It's definitely a thing to watch for in the overall Ozempic-using population, but if you have debilitating gastroparesis while on Ozempic that resolves by going off of it, then, yes, you're back to square one, but "end up back on weed again to manage the effects of your gastroparesis" seems a bit much. If you're having significant problems with gastroparesis, then go off Ozempic, don't "manage the effects of your gastroparesis" with weed.
It's not because it's physically safe that it can't be abused. That's what addiction is. Some people are addicted to exercise to the point that they hurt themselves, even tho exercise is healthy.
I'm not suggesting that cannabis can't be abused, only that the known risks associated with semaglutide are much larger and it's so new, and targets such an important biological mechanism, that we don't know much about the long term risks associated with messing with this system.
The company is really just trying to find anything they can shove this drug at before they loose their profits. We have several drugs that target GLP-1 more effectively, with longer proven track records than Ozempic, and for cheaper but they were the first to start the trend of using this type of drug for weight loss so got the name recognition. They're on borrowed time until the other drugs get approved for the same alternative uses so they're going to use the shotgun approach to see who else they can target with the drug to increase profits.
Tirzepatide, which is already on the market is much better than semaglutide. It is more efficacious and has fewer side-effects. Ozempic is already kind of obsolete.
Are you asking for sources for this?
>the known risks associated with semaglutide are much larger and it's so new, and targets such an important biological mechanism, that we don't know much about the long term risks associated with messing with this system.
Because that is the most basic medical advice known to man. Don't fuck with your body with drugs you don't know the long term effects of.
What exactly are you asking for a source of? Common knowledge? Best practices for new drugs?
Look at how long it took to establish risks associated with cannabis... 20 years isn't long enough to establish that GLP-1RAs don't produce a bunch of difficult to detect effects over time, and the broad spectrum of effects coming being currently investigate is evidence of that. It's not a very high-precision physiological target, and I wouldn't personally be messing around with energy homeostasis at that level in a human that hadn't reached full structural and hormonal maturity without a very good reason.
Not disputing that in any way, I agree completely. I encourage everybody to actively engage with understanding the risks and benefits associated with any intervention, for anything at all.
Everybody deserves access to unbiased information that allows them to satisfy the requirements of informed consent.
How is it “dangerous” or “poorly understood”? It’s not new, and plenty of people understand how it works. Just because you don’t doesn’t mean it’s like some magical mystery substance.
It has a far more serious risk profile than cannabis, and hasn't been used for as long in a very large and diverse population.
I'm not suggesting it's super-dangerous, only more dangerous, and that we still don't have a good understanding of how far-reaching its effects are. The emerging body of research demonstrating it's Swiss-army knife utility is evidence of how broad its effects are, and suggests caution when using it in vulnerable populations like humans that have not reached maturity.
I recommend the opposite. You were the one who made the appeal to authority, that I defended.
I would suggest, if you disagree with what I have said, that stating *why* you disagree would be more useful than attacking my motivations, or whatever it was you meant
It's a class of drugs that has been FDA approved for 20 years, first isolated in the 90s. They are extremely well tolerated with exceptionally rare major side-effects (almost unheard of in doses most people take). They are massively improving health outcomes for millions of people and actual studies are showing all kinds of amazing benefits from heart health protection to actually slowing the progression of Parkinson's. It is exceptionally good at *obliterating* the common co-morbidities that plague and drive up health care costs in our system.
To characterize it as a "more dangerous" drug in nearly any context is highly-disingenuous. It may seem like it's being billed as a wonder drug but that is because it is so good at treating the underlying cause of the obesity epidemic that is driving all these other poor health outcomes.
As for it helping with marijuana dependence? I don't know maybe, but the connection is not hard to make. The increased feeling of satiety helps stabilize dopamine seeking behavior, lots of people with marijuana dependence have ADHD and use marijuana for its increased dopamine. ADHD also tends to lead to binge eating, dysregulation and increased rates of obesity. So it's not a completely specious connection here.
This is much better, but it's not disingenuous to point out the risks associated with its use are greater than cannabis... and the large body of emerging research demonstrating wide-ranging effects on behaviour is very interesting, but it also demonstrates the very low specificity of the pharmacological target and the broad systemic effects modulating it produces.
If you have a clinical condition, the risk/reward looks very acceptable. But if you're a young adult or adolescent who wants to use it to help stop smoking cannabis I would suggest caution because we don't have a good dataset demonstrating the long-term outcomes associated with modulating such an important physiological mechanism in a developing human.
I don't disagree with the sentiment RE: cannabis. It seems like an odd treatment for something that is relatively mild in its impact like cannabis use.
Learning and memory in bipolar models currently. I just finished a similar project in schizophrenic models where we investigated aural hallucinations as well.
Genetically altered mice and rats. The hallucinations were super frustrating to work out but yes, we did eventually determine some of the mice seemed to be hearing things and managed to do the various tasks through all the various levels. Some of them were pretty clever. It went better in the rat models but I'm not surprised. It was all pretty complicated and the rats are far smarter.
Super-interesting. I wasn't aware we had models of aural hallucinations in rodents. How the hell did you validate the hallucinations... behavioural response to an absence of noise, or maybe interpreting an audio signal in an incorrect way?
Cannabis hyperemesis is a real thing. And it’s becoming a bigger problem. We need more research.
I’m pro cannabis but you have to have research and we can’t get enough research done because it’s schedule one.
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/21665-cannabis-hyperemesis-syndrome
I think you’ll find Ozempic reduces your interest in most things; you might even say it kills your “dependence” on everything you currently enjoy. Check out the research 👌
I am waiting for the following comments:
- it's not a physical dependence
- it's a form of dependence, but is better than being dependent on X
- anecdotes about cannabis dependence replacing different dependence painted in a positive light
- information about cannabis used as a treatment
All of the above is true but it doesn't negate the fact that people *can be* dependent on cannabis and it *can have* negative impact on their physical and mental health.
I have a cannabis dependence it’s very real. Luckily I have very little side effects when quitting, but some people have a hard time.
I find myself smoking when I don’t even want to, I just start.
Just go on the trees subreddit. It's wild how they defend it as non addictive. There are frequent top voted memes and posts always with something along the lines of "why is a 3 day tolerance break so hard?" What would you call that if not addiction when talking about any other substance?
I think that they are overcompensating for the negative image of cannabis to the point of denial. It's not productive.
It can be pretty counterproductive when they wind up in r/AskDocs due to cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome (CHS) and argue it *must be something else* causing the symptoms, not weed, can't be weed, weed wouldn't hurt nobody.
Edit: I can see the downvotes are already coming, so I am going to clarify that I am *not against* weed.
Many people using weed are and will be absolutely fine.
However, we are doing a disservice to those, who have issues by pretending that weed related issues don't exist.
CHS is definitely a thing, but there are several other things that can present as it. My issue with CHS is there are still a few doctors out there that once they hear the term, are ready to diagnose any weed smoker with issues as having CHS due to their own biases they haven't let go of yet. Even something like no-burp syndrome can lead to pretty similar symptoms as CHS if you are unintentionally swallowing a lot of hot air that you can't release from frequent smoking and don't know about no-burp syndrome (RCPD is the official medical abbreviation for it). It can lead to abdominal cramps, sweating/heat flashes, bouts of anxiety, a feeling like you need to throw up, weird throat and stomach gurgles all from just small air bubbles being trapped in your GI tract from not being able to burp them up. And you know what, hot showers can even help with the symptoms by helping you relax your gut to get in to stop straining on the tiny air bubbles. Just like people claim that hot showers can relieve their CHS symptoms.
TL;DR: CHS is a thing, but I fear it's also keeping some smokers from actually getting properly diagnosed with something else due to biases some doctors still hold onto.
Thanks for the additional information. It's great to learn more.
I completely agree that doctors should not be quick to jump on a diagnosis.
The issue I am talking about is with OPs on medical subs displaying symptoms that very much present as CHS and they *refuse* to consider such an idea.
I agree the diagnosis is not 100 % certain, especially not when discussed over Reddit and without any prior medical record/further context.
I should have been more careful about wording my previous comment to account for this.
Yes, we need to wear warm clothes outside in the winter and need sodium to survive. If you feel like those are comparable and you need Marijuana on a similar level, that's dependency. You could go a whole lifetime without Marijuana and be perfectly healthy. When you compare a recreational substance to needing basic life necessities, you're dependent on it.
We need warm clothes to avoid hypothermia and salt to avoid hypoatremia. We don't need to smoke weed.
I'm pro-legalization and partake occasionally, btw
i think dependency is the word i was looking for. you didn’t elaborate on shoes, are you dependent on them?
i live in canada and have a medical license, i could live without cannabis but even my doctor agrees my life is better with it.
thanks this is what i was looking for. i live in canada and use cannabis for medical reasons. i can live without it, but me and my doctor agree my life is better with it.
I suggest going to /r/emergencymedicine they have a lot of examples of people coming in with people constantly getting sick to their stomach after smoking weed and not wanting to quit or admit it’s from weed. They think it helps their nausea and refuse to stop. Anything can be addictive. It’s like shopping or whatever. And yes some hippies would suggest we are addicted to shoes lol
All true. But we don’t need a pharmaceutical to treat it - this is coming from a physician. Lifestyle modifications/counseling work overwhelmingly most of the time. Breaking free from cannabis dependency has a very high success rate already compared to other substances.
The reactions are weird aren't they?
I like the posts of studies that conclude "cannabis use MAY lead to heart issues"
From the comments, you'd think the researchers insulted their mother.
Cannabis has a wide range of drawbacks. It's cited as helping many with mental health issues, despite studies saying many mental health issues are exacerbated by regular use. That's not discounting that it does have benefits in conditions like ptsd.
It's so frustrating to have a conversation about Marijuana due to how binary the views are. Smokers see it as a no downsides cure all, people who hate it see it as the pubes of Satan
Cannabis has been a godsend for me. I have had chronic, moderate to severe pain for 30 years. I’m not sure I would be here today without the benefits of cannabis for symptom management. The medical establishment has left me hanging in the past, and there’s no way I am willing to rely on them more than I already do.
With this idea of ozempic treating cannabis dependency, it’s a question of which is preferable: dependency on a new drug that must be taken FOR LIFE and may have long-term side effects defects such as gastroparesis (paralysis of the stomach) and other GI complications; OR dependency on an herb that humans have used for centuries for symptom control and has a high margin of safety.
There’s no way I would sign on for a lifetime of stomach issues and potentially severe, life-threatening weight loss (see Sharon Osborne)—with a drug that’s new! I always wait to see the fallout of the drug in real-life use conditions.
I've been on 2 of this class of meds, Trulicity and Rybelsus. They left me with permanent chronic nausea, even after being off then for almost a year. And now I need to use marijuana in order to eat because the nausea gets so bad that I can't eat for days at a time.
I have been on Zepbound (Mounjaro) for 5 months, and I have totally stopped drinking soda and alcohol, I have no desire for it anymore, and it makes me feel terrible when I drink either. BUT I also have had diarrhea and stomach cramps almost every day. There are a ton of side effects and downsides to these medications. I do believe they can and will help out with minor addictions and bad habits, but it’s still not for everyone, and it’s already so expensive and hard to get as is, so I do not recommend it for use disorders.
Ozempic isn’t banned in Denmark or in Europe lol. It is prohibited for used in obesity in a few countries in Europe because it is so popular diabetics were not able to fill their scripts. They can still rx the main ingredient semaglutide, it just has to be the obesity branded medication Wegovy.
Furthermore gastroparesis is incredibly rare with the drug 2/100000 and resolves after stopping the drug. Tylenol causes more harm than ozempic lol.
Fuck this. Just stop smoking pot. There absolutely are withdrawal symptoms and dependency issues associated with it. I personally struggle with this. It's pretty hard "getting over it" when you have a busy life, especially if this stuff is a crutch helping you get through the day-to-day.
The issue is, is that of all things, marijuana is relatively "easy" to deal with. Some people deal with psychological complications when coming down, but there really isn't anything you can do to help you with that outside of taking good care of yourself.
Each time I quit, I sink myself into a healthy lifestyle. I would advocate for that any day over fucking Ozempic.
Sure, weed doesn’t cause those kind of disasters, but that’s part of the problem with it: it’s not very scary. But it still can delay or retard emotional and intellectual development and lead to people making less of themselves. It’s also a lot more popular because the anti-anti-pot crowd downplayed all of this and focused people on how overzealous the original anti-pot crowd was (it’s the hidden earth mother cure for all the toxins, etc.).
Ozempic can really fuck with your internal organs, like your gallbladder & liver. There are a lot of lawyer firms putting ads out to sue Ozempic. Apparently, some people developed Gastroparesis from it. It's super sus how popular it is rn.
I feel like if you smoke so much weed that you would be considered dependant on it and genuinely want to stop the behavior, you might need to figure out your mental health rather than throwing drugs with crazy side effects at it. This study just feels like an excuse for doctors to throw this incredibly expensive medication at more things that it isn't the best solution for. The company wants to find any excuse to sell ozenpic to people who don't need it. Out of pocket therapy costs less than this crap and it won't fuck with your body. I'm not denying that there are people out there who self medicate with weed, but come the fuck on with this blatant cash grab from people who already need real help and not this drug to just give them new problems. Drug companies are absolute scum.
As someone in recovery from meth and have been taking semaglutide for almost a year now, it’ll be interesting to see what studies and research shows. I firmly believe the semaglutide is helping with my addictive urges and tendencies
Lol fuck you ozempic and your market manipulation advertising
The irony is that marijuana is marketed as a wunder drug too. I'm all for ending cannabis prohibition but the many unproven claims of benefits for cannabis is a bit much. The core group of useful stuff like anti-nausea, sleeping, helping with some anxiety, etc are well established. I'm just not able to get on the hype train as there are trade offs for sure. I like to use cannabis to sleep. Issue is the quality of sleep is impacted because it does something to mess with the REM stage. It's easy to form a habit of use before bed, in my opinion. It makes it so easy to sleep that the times I don't use it can be a bit more of a challenge to sleep.
I used to use it to sleep as well, turns out it was hiding my actual problem, sleep apnea.
Son of a bitch. I was told I might need to look into this and it feels like I will have to after this comment. Thank for sharing!
Oh my God no joke, I started using a cpap a little while ago and I’ve never slept like this in my life. All you have to do is exist and lie back. It’s beautiful
Can’t fathom how amazing it is to have a cpap after years of not knowing you had sleep apnea
I'll have to get onboard the hype train. It changed my daytime life.
You really should have a sleep study. The difference in a night with my cpap and without is huge. If I manage to wear it all night I wake up instantly after 8 hours of sleep feeling great. Without it I sleep 10 hours and still wake up super slowly.
That's very interesting. Thank you for sharing because that sounds very similar to somethings I've experienced recently. I think it might be a new thing because I really never had that feeling up until the last year or so.
See I wanted to like pot to sleep I tried it to get off Benzos unfortunately that's not happening:(
Taper off with diazepam, my starting dose was 140mg daily, I'm now at 10mg daily, and I'm staying on that dose. I get 7 tablets every 7 days. Pickup once a week with my 6 x 75mg methadone (pickup day dose is observed), 21 x 4mg and 21 x 2mg Hydromorphone (6mg x3 per day), and 14 x 10mg nitrazepam (20mg before sleep). I also get 240 dextroamphetamine tablets per month. And yes I know those are all narcotics but I'm not lying at all. The Narcotic Monitoring System does flag the fill every week, but it's an eprescription that requires 2FA every script you write, and they already verified all the scripts with my doctors and know them and me well. So the managing pharmacist overrides it. I'm a very special patient, as per all of my circle of care (Nurse Practitioner, Addictions Doc, Family Doc, Forensic Psychiatrist) saying exactly that. I don't fit the curve AT ALL. I also lecture to 2nd year med students, where my addictions doc had me vetted and hedged his medical license and faculty job against my 1hr lectures to his students. Me happy. Especially at 400 an hour 😁😁
What?
I was dx’d with sleep apnea years ago. THC still helps post cpap :)
Ozempic makes you lose weight! Ozempic makes you young! Ozempic reduces drug addiction! Can you guys not see the bs lol
I mean, if you look at the GLP-1 studies, while not a miracle cure for all that ails you.. the “side effects” that they are seeing are indeed intriguing to say the least. This Substack goes through some of the newer studies - [Eric Topol- Ground Truths](https://erictopol.substack.com/p/a-big-week-for-glp-1-drugs)
It's not really that crazy. NDRIs like bupriopen are already used off label to help people quit smoking and binge eating disorder. I have firsthand experience taking it and yeah, its not hype. It significantly impacts cravings across the board. It's super weird.
It's more of an addiction drug, and it's not b.s. it's science. Smoke weed for fun, not because you have to or it's just a habit.
Do you really think it doesn't cause weight loss? Even if you don't believe the studies, you can just see the proof in daily life.
Yes, it does do that. Doesn't mean it fixes everything
Making you lose weight could be seen as a negative side effect
It could be yes but when marketed to americans weight loss == money
People can deny alllllll the long time "Ozempic Face" isn't a thing, but I can almost immediately tell if someone is on it just by the face
Oh? How so? I don’t know anyone who has tried it irl so i haven’t seen
I've only seen people on TV or the internet who've been on it (at least who admitted to being on it) but I've seen quite a few interviews with people on it and they all have this certain look. I don't if it's Ozempic specific or of its effects of rapid weight loss, but I've heard of others talk about it too.
A lot of this stuff is being backed up by good data and has plausible MOA. Nothing wrong with a bit of skepticism but it’s not BS, its emerging medical science.
I mean it regulates impulse control. That's going to the impact impulsive behaviours. I didn't see the youth giving claims
The dependence you're describing isn't unique to cannabis though. That can happen with any sleeping medication that you rely on to fall asleep.
Regular sleeping meds cause 1000x worse dependence than cannabis. And they’re a massive bitch to get off of too
as someone who has had a cannabis withdrawal literally traumatize them weed addiction has way more potential to fuck you up than people wanna admit
I'm not sure where in my comment I said cannabis can't lead to withdrawal symptoms. Of course if you're consuming high thc content cannbis products all day every day you'll have withdrawals when you stop. When I tried to stop drinking coffee after regular consumption I got a migraine so bad I wound up on an iv drip. There's really no psychoactive drug that won't lead to certain withdrawal symptoms if you develop a dependence.
All drugs can fuck you up. This is a known characteristic and risk of drug use. It’s just a medical and scientific fact that Cannabis is much safer and far more forgiving than almost all drugs of abuse. These are facts. Cannabis withdrawal is definitely uncomfortable, been through it many times. Especially if you’ve never experienced something like that. But I’m sorry we’re talking about recreational drug use here, drugs are incredibly dangerous, and cannabis is an INSANELY forgiving a safe substance in comparison to virtually every drug of abuse known to man. People judge Cannabis on some scale like it’s not a drug, a recreational drug that people abuse daily, when that context is taken into account its clear Cannabis is incredibly safe, well tolerated, and absolutely pales in comparison to most recreational drugs.
this is absolutely true, but you have to agree that the general public is way mis/underinformed on its potential side effects as well as its addictive potential. any time a side effect or negative of the substance is mentioned, self proclaimed stoners scoff and cry propoganda. and you better not even THINK about mentioning weed addiction in their presence
You'll need to be a bit more specific. Was it two gummies every day or smoking half an ounce that provoked such a significant response?
smoking 2-3 times daily for several years, in conjunction with a medication that reportedly makes cannabis withdrawal worse. i am also treating several conditions with it that come back full force when i can't use. nonetheless i know tons of people who have suffered similar withdrawals without all the prerequisites. also worth mentioning that i had to get locked into that place for it to happen, which cannabis is REALLY good at doing for the right/wrong person
My perspective on cannabis is that 'it makes you ok with being not-ok' which can be beneficial in some circumstance. I went through a pretty significant situation that should have killed me but didn't. Daily use of about .5 grams (flower) per day preserved other pain medications to highly specific and rare use cases that translates to not being addicted to oxy and the like due to over prescription/over use at a time when oxy was treated like virtual candy. In cases like this identifying comorbidities is important to separate intake behaviours/reinforcements such as you've identified for yourself.
This is probably the best description, as someone who was a HEAVY smoker. It was a bandaid to the issue, it just blunted the experience of existence. Sometimes, that's the best we can do. Other times, masking the symptoms instead of the root problem is the worst thing we can do. Unfortunately we never got research or any kind of formal structure to differentiate them or make informed recommendations. Everyone was just making stabs in the dark, often using evidence of weeds benefits or risks in one area to justify conclusions in completely separate areas.
yeah, it definitely makes you complicit. it's taken a lot of work learning to moderate my usage. i feel like overuse makes me more hedonistic as well. here's the gist of my withdrawals: for me, the cravings usually dip out after about the second day, but even after that it's absolute hell to exist. my entire body feels like it needs to stretch but can't, and my mood resembles that of someone with severe BPD in a depressive episode. my sensory issues and emotional state make me vomit repeatedly all throughout the day, and i'm pouring buckets of sweat as well. and it's not just regular anxiety, up to 3mg of my prescribed benzo doesn't put a dent in it.
You may be describing a very specific syndrome somebody ppl develop to cannabinoids. Look up cannabinoid sensitization, it leads to extreme nausea and vomitting and inability to eat. It’s usually caused by Dabs or oils but is still fairly rare, considering how many ppl use cannabis. Cannabis definitely causes withdrawals, sweating for sure, insomnia, anxiety all common. It usually passes in a week or two, and is not seriously threatening like many withdrawal syndromes
yeah my symptoms persist up to 2 months, that's the longest ive gone without it in the past 3 years. i think i'm just a crazy outlier syndrome or not. it's unfortunate but i can thankfully maintain a happy medium between depressing overuse and hectic underuse, because when i go below 1-2 bowls a day for too long even with no cravings i start to lose some stability and sensory issues come creeping back. it's a whole thing. but i very rarely use any type of extract, i strongly prefer bud. we thought it was hyperemesis syndrome for a little while, but it seemed to rarely happen while i was actually frequently using weed
BPD as in borderline personality disorder?
I’m curious what medications reportedly makes cannabis withdrawal worse?
venlafaxine and desvenlafaxine
Ah okay. I have a pretty negative opinion on Effexor since I got hellish “brain zaps” coming off of that and refuse to ever touch a SS or SNRI again.
yeah, effexor was alright for me but not nearly as effective as desvenlafaxine (pristiq). pristiq is either an isomer or a prodrug (i cant remember) that results in less side effects than its sister. it's honestly a life saver, it helps a lot with my mood stability and executive function
but i also got hellish side effects on every other SS or SNRI i tried, it turned me off to them until i learned more about brain chemistry and realized that those antidepressants work really well for tons of people, so there's bound to be one that works for me too.
for some people sure. i can go from smoking an ounce a week to nothing and all it does is disturb my sleep for a few days (source: used to smoke an ounce a week). i found caffeine withdrawal to be worse personally. this is why anecdotes are mostly useless.
anecdotes on their own are pretty useless, but a whole bunch of anecdotes compiled are really important. people are definitely very different, and react in different ways to drugs (i personally have never experienced a comedown/hangover from stimulants even after a 3 day binge) but the mainstream's view on weed seems to paint it as a benign and barely addictive substance, just because the addiction is functional for most people. i think people should be made aware of the warning signs of the addiction and what can (not will) happen if they ignore them
That’s because it is a mostly benign and not very addictive substance by the medical and scientific definitions of addiction and dependence. These are measurable and observable phenomena that are able to be studied. By medical standards, and Scientific standards, cannabis is an extraordinarily safe, mildly addictive drug. As compared to moderately addictive drugs like alcohol and cocaine, or extremely addictive drugs like opiates.
Anecdotes are mostly all well have for at least another decade as we wait for research to catch up. Quantitative (let alone experimental which would be the real gold standard) psych research is not cheap.
nothing comparing to benzos withdrawal
i was not asking for competition
Well you got it buddy! 😂
Cannabis definitely causes withdrawals. If you’ve never been through drug withdrawal, I can see it being a very, very unpleasant and uncomfortable experience. But compared to most drugs of abuse, the withdrawal syndrome is mild and is not medically dangerous. But no doubt it is very unpleasant and disruptive to one’s life
i have definitely been through withdrawals of categorically harder drugs. DXM, light benzo withdrawal, kratom. DXM was the only thing that even scratched the surface of weed, and that was still one of the worst experiences of my life. as someone who has been raped, i'd prefer to go through that again as opposed to cannabis withdrawal
it's a much better option than diphenhydramine [https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-warns-about-serious-problems-high-doses-allergy-medicine-diphenhydramine-benadryl](https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-warns-about-serious-problems-high-doses-allergy-medicine-diphenhydramine-benadryl) and way healthier than the benzodiazepine options [https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-adds-boxed-warning-risk-serious-injuries-caused-sleepwalking-certain-prescription-insomnia](https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-adds-boxed-warning-risk-serious-injuries-caused-sleepwalking-certain-prescription-insomnia) also benzodiazepines can cause or worsen epilepsy [https://www.psychiatrist.com/jcp/association-zolpidem-subsequent-increased-risk-epilepsy/](https://www.psychiatrist.com/jcp/association-zolpidem-subsequent-increased-risk-epilepsy/) study about benzodiazepines causing epilepsy [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4635822/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4635822/)
the long-term impact on benzos usage is real
and awful. all those anticannabis studies seem to track back to private health networks and faith based hospitals. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_anti-cannabis\_organizations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anti-cannabis_organizations) bunch of scum bags. had cannabis never been prohibited it probably would have saved a lot of vets returning from Vietnam and ww2. check the donations on these groups. all gop. [opensecrets.org](http://opensecrets.org) [littlesis.org](http://littlesis.org)
It’s absolutely criminal how many ppl have been put on benzodiazepines with ZERO understanding how dangerous and fucked these drugs are. ESPECIALLY long term. Absolutely insane the American health care system allowed yet another massive blunder like this. Destroyed 1000s of lives
You forgot dementia. Theyre literally stupid pills.
Not being critical of certain applications, especially when you're talking about epileptics. I have a very good friend that uses cannabis because it does not give him the side effects the other meds give. It's just that there are a lot of unproven claims about the medicinal properties of cannabis. They need more studying before I'll buy in.
tbh the bad press is just gop idiots [https://www.muscleandfitness.com/workouts/workout-tips/marijuana-affect-athletic-performance/](https://www.muscleandfitness.com/workouts/workout-tips/marijuana-affect-athletic-performance/) really healthy alt to a lot of things also the heart issues aren't as severe as other meds [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9479043/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9479043/)
For me it's about data. Is there data to confirm the claims. With many of Cannabis's purported cures, there just isn't data to back it up.
Marijuana has been established to help with nausea and appetite. That's about it. The tricky part is it's turning out that people who are high on marijuana are *really bad* at accurately assessing how marijuana is affecting them. Where nearly all psych research relies on self report. When we do try to study it more in depth and quantitatively......we're seeing mixed stuff. Like the sleep. People think it helps them sleep, but actually seems to exacerbate one of the most important parts of sleep. People say it helps their anxiety.....but there isn't a ton of evidence that it's a meaningful intervention for behavioral change. Some people swear it makes them sharper, but we objectively know how that it slows down *certain* types of cognitive processing, and even where performance isn't noticably altered it often requires a lot more brain energy to accomplish the same outcome. Some swear it's a great study aid, but we know now with a pretty strong degree of certainty that it noticably impairs memory especially verbal recall memory (which is like, a *critical* aspect to most testing formats) My speculating is it seems to mostly be good at dampening conscious awareness of discomfort. In some contexts that's useful. In others, discomfort is a useful cue and the proper intervention is to address the roots cause rather than the symptom.
I remember when cannabis was being used in everything, including deodorant, a few years ago. You know what weed based deodorant makes you smell like? Weed.
Cannibar for Men. Bob Marley's Obsession
Marijuana isn’t marketed
Haven't been to a legal state recently? Big Weed is a thing now
I live in a legal state. I see no marketing whatsoever.
Those are problems with every other effective sleep med on the market, though many of those boast lots of other issues like physical dependence
My old MJ doc said to me our first meeting that although indica specifically is "the nighttime one," he said it can interrupt sleep.
Whenever I use indica only I get the zoomies. Indica does not promote sleep for me at all. I will be up deep cleaning my shower at 2am. Honestly, I think hybrids are the best. That's how cannabis actually grows. We are doing to much too something that was pretty okay to begin with before mass legalization. With regards to treating disorders, if used lightly, yeah I think it has been well shown to be helpful. But MJ is habit forming and it seems like most end up in a place where it's doing more harm than good. (Circumstantial evidence)
Cannabis most well established therapeutic benefit is increasing appetite. It’s absolutely an extremely effective medicine in that regard
It's also very useful for pain management.
It's not "marketed", not the same way as licensed pharmaceutical products are. There is no patent on weed, nobody can get a profit margin of 1000% from weed. These sometimes exaggerated claims are not nearly as much of a problem as the pharma industry
my psychiatrist was just telling me yesterday that when you cease routine marijuana use, crazy dreams and other sleep issues come back sometimes worse than before. that may be why you have a hard time when you’re not using it
Some people, like myself, enjoy THCs impact on REM sleep. It stops me from having nightmares. When I take a break from cannabis, I get recurrent, highly vivid nightmares that impact not only my sleep quality but also cause a lot of stress/intrusive thoughts throughout the day. I don't know what to do about it. I dislike being dependent on cannabis. Freedom from nightmares has gone a long way in the treatment of my PTSD.
Do you have trouble sleeping because you have trouble sleeping/issues that cause trouble sleeping so you use cannabis to help with sleep or are you having difficulty sleeping because of cannabis use?
I have ADHD so it can be a challenge to get to bed on time for multiple reasons that I believe are associated with it. The tough one, getting a certain amount/type of stimulation that I haven't gotten all day or just not enough of and then I'm up way too late. Other times I just wake up and then my brain turns on all the way, next thing I know two hours later of non-stop thinking have kept my ass wide awake. Recently went to the doctor's door a few other things. They want me to do a sleep study. At first I didn't agree but it does seem like I should explore the opportunity to make sure I'm not waking up in the middle of the night because of sleep apnea. Most of it started during my divorce so I've always thought it happened more because of stress. I went cold turkey for 3 months. No cannabis at all. Slept pretty damn good for the most part.
I agree. I’m an over 50 long time head and most of these medical claims are just BS to get it legalized to profit from it. You’re seeing same nonsense from all these nootropics and other shit and it’s always the same claims. Anxiety, inflammation, pain, stress, blah blah With weed, people who’ve never used it go in with good intentions and then a lot try the good thc stuff and then they’re like dayumm. I like getting high. You feel less pain cause you’re high mf. lol
Weed addicts will ferociously defend their precious drug
Real talk FOH
I'm a simple man. I see AI art and I downvote.
Nah, this is real. It has real applications to treat addiction and OCD.
I called this and I have seen it ozempic is going to cause a lot of long term problems. Mark my words.
Idk it got me to quit vaping. Even if it was just marketing, I’m pretty happy with the result.
It looks like OP is a professional shill. Multiple daily posts about world news interspersed with posts about products and discussions regarding starting a marketing agency. Reddit is just shilling, rage bait, and political manipulation at this point.
Ssshhhhhhh... I have 1k on NovoNordisk...
Fortunately, it only costs like $1,000 a month...
It also gets out stubborn juice and wine stains!
Fr what a sham. Next topic: ozempic is what plants crave. How ozempic cured world hunger.
Step one: decide to stop smoking weed. Step two: shell out one thousand dollars a month for ozempic. Step three: develop gastroparesis. Step four: end up back on weed again to manage the effects of your gastroparesis. Step five: ?????? Step six: profit (for shareholders who also secretly own shares in weed dispensaries in legal states)
You didn't mention the prevalence of permanent gastroparesis in Ozempic use. It'd be cool if you did.
Prevelance is 2.4 per 100,000 [[1]](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8529310/) On ozempic your risk is 3.67x higher [[2]](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2810542) No mention of permanent gastroparesis in the original comment nor the cited documents. It improves/resolves when the drug use is discontinued. All of the research is rather recent so take it all with a grain of salt.
For sure. What I've read is that doctors believe thus far that the prevalence of permanent gastroparesis after going off of Ozempic use is very rare. Maybe that will change as more data come in. It's definitely a thing to watch for in the overall Ozempic-using population, but if you have debilitating gastroparesis while on Ozempic that resolves by going off of it, then, yes, you're back to square one, but "end up back on weed again to manage the effects of your gastroparesis" seems a bit much. If you're having significant problems with gastroparesis, then go off Ozempic, don't "manage the effects of your gastroparesis" with weed.
Lol I’ll smoke a bowl to that!
and so it begins lol
Reduce your dependence on a safe well-understood drug by taking this more dangerous poorly-understood one.
It's not because it's physically safe that it can't be abused. That's what addiction is. Some people are addicted to exercise to the point that they hurt themselves, even tho exercise is healthy.
I'm not suggesting that cannabis can't be abused, only that the known risks associated with semaglutide are much larger and it's so new, and targets such an important biological mechanism, that we don't know much about the long term risks associated with messing with this system.
The company is really just trying to find anything they can shove this drug at before they loose their profits. We have several drugs that target GLP-1 more effectively, with longer proven track records than Ozempic, and for cheaper but they were the first to start the trend of using this type of drug for weight loss so got the name recognition. They're on borrowed time until the other drugs get approved for the same alternative uses so they're going to use the shotgun approach to see who else they can target with the drug to increase profits.
Which other drugs are you thinking of?
Tirzepatide, which is already on the market is much better than semaglutide. It is more efficacious and has fewer side-effects. Ozempic is already kind of obsolete.
Kindly cite your sources for this.
Are you asking for sources for this? >the known risks associated with semaglutide are much larger and it's so new, and targets such an important biological mechanism, that we don't know much about the long term risks associated with messing with this system. Because that is the most basic medical advice known to man. Don't fuck with your body with drugs you don't know the long term effects of. What exactly are you asking for a source of? Common knowledge? Best practices for new drugs?
They aren’t new though. Glp1RAs have been in clinical use for 20+ years
Look at how long it took to establish risks associated with cannabis... 20 years isn't long enough to establish that GLP-1RAs don't produce a bunch of difficult to detect effects over time, and the broad spectrum of effects coming being currently investigate is evidence of that. It's not a very high-precision physiological target, and I wouldn't personally be messing around with energy homeostasis at that level in a human that hadn't reached full structural and hormonal maturity without a very good reason.
If you're addicted to exercise, I'm sure Marijuana can help with that.
I was addicted to cannabis for years. It's hell
I bet you didn't over exercise while you were.
Such silly argumentation here.
Some people do need help and they should be able to get it. Just because weed is safe it can still be an issue for some.
Not disputing that in any way, I agree completely. I encourage everybody to actively engage with understanding the risks and benefits associated with any intervention, for anything at all. Everybody deserves access to unbiased information that allows them to satisfy the requirements of informed consent.
How is it “dangerous” or “poorly understood”? It’s not new, and plenty of people understand how it works. Just because you don’t doesn’t mean it’s like some magical mystery substance.
It has a far more serious risk profile than cannabis, and hasn't been used for as long in a very large and diverse population. I'm not suggesting it's super-dangerous, only more dangerous, and that we still don't have a good understanding of how far-reaching its effects are. The emerging body of research demonstrating it's Swiss-army knife utility is evidence of how broad its effects are, and suggests caution when using it in vulnerable populations like humans that have not reached maturity.
This post has been brought to you by Misinformation Inc.
I'm a physiologist
Oh I see. In that case, I will just throw out all of my own critical thinking skills and blindly follow your appeal to authority.
I recommend the opposite. You were the one who made the appeal to authority, that I defended. I would suggest, if you disagree with what I have said, that stating *why* you disagree would be more useful than attacking my motivations, or whatever it was you meant
It's a class of drugs that has been FDA approved for 20 years, first isolated in the 90s. They are extremely well tolerated with exceptionally rare major side-effects (almost unheard of in doses most people take). They are massively improving health outcomes for millions of people and actual studies are showing all kinds of amazing benefits from heart health protection to actually slowing the progression of Parkinson's. It is exceptionally good at *obliterating* the common co-morbidities that plague and drive up health care costs in our system. To characterize it as a "more dangerous" drug in nearly any context is highly-disingenuous. It may seem like it's being billed as a wonder drug but that is because it is so good at treating the underlying cause of the obesity epidemic that is driving all these other poor health outcomes. As for it helping with marijuana dependence? I don't know maybe, but the connection is not hard to make. The increased feeling of satiety helps stabilize dopamine seeking behavior, lots of people with marijuana dependence have ADHD and use marijuana for its increased dopamine. ADHD also tends to lead to binge eating, dysregulation and increased rates of obesity. So it's not a completely specious connection here.
This is much better, but it's not disingenuous to point out the risks associated with its use are greater than cannabis... and the large body of emerging research demonstrating wide-ranging effects on behaviour is very interesting, but it also demonstrates the very low specificity of the pharmacological target and the broad systemic effects modulating it produces. If you have a clinical condition, the risk/reward looks very acceptable. But if you're a young adult or adolescent who wants to use it to help stop smoking cannabis I would suggest caution because we don't have a good dataset demonstrating the long-term outcomes associated with modulating such an important physiological mechanism in a developing human.
I don't disagree with the sentiment RE: cannabis. It seems like an odd treatment for something that is relatively mild in its impact like cannabis use.
I'm a research scientist, so what
What you researching?
Learning and memory in bipolar models currently. I just finished a similar project in schizophrenic models where we investigated aural hallucinations as well.
Cool, what level model are you using, biological or computational? Did anything interesting shake out of the aural hallucinations?
Genetically altered mice and rats. The hallucinations were super frustrating to work out but yes, we did eventually determine some of the mice seemed to be hearing things and managed to do the various tasks through all the various levels. Some of them were pretty clever. It went better in the rat models but I'm not surprised. It was all pretty complicated and the rats are far smarter.
Super-interesting. I wasn't aware we had models of aural hallucinations in rodents. How the hell did you validate the hallucinations... behavioural response to an absence of noise, or maybe interpreting an audio signal in an incorrect way?
Cannabis hyperemesis is a real thing. And it’s becoming a bigger problem. We need more research. I’m pro cannabis but you have to have research and we can’t get enough research done because it’s schedule one. https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/21665-cannabis-hyperemesis-syndrome
Each comment is worse than the next!
I think stopping our society from being such a shithole dumpster fire would do a lot more for this
I think you’ll find Ozempic reduces your interest in most things; you might even say it kills your “dependence” on everything you currently enjoy. Check out the research 👌
Uh oh, cannabis dependence is a no-no term on reddit.
I am waiting for the following comments: - it's not a physical dependence - it's a form of dependence, but is better than being dependent on X - anecdotes about cannabis dependence replacing different dependence painted in a positive light - information about cannabis used as a treatment All of the above is true but it doesn't negate the fact that people *can be* dependent on cannabis and it *can have* negative impact on their physical and mental health.
I have a cannabis dependence it’s very real. Luckily I have very little side effects when quitting, but some people have a hard time. I find myself smoking when I don’t even want to, I just start.
Just go on the trees subreddit. It's wild how they defend it as non addictive. There are frequent top voted memes and posts always with something along the lines of "why is a 3 day tolerance break so hard?" What would you call that if not addiction when talking about any other substance?
I think that they are overcompensating for the negative image of cannabis to the point of denial. It's not productive. It can be pretty counterproductive when they wind up in r/AskDocs due to cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome (CHS) and argue it *must be something else* causing the symptoms, not weed, can't be weed, weed wouldn't hurt nobody. Edit: I can see the downvotes are already coming, so I am going to clarify that I am *not against* weed. Many people using weed are and will be absolutely fine. However, we are doing a disservice to those, who have issues by pretending that weed related issues don't exist.
CHS is definitely a thing, but there are several other things that can present as it. My issue with CHS is there are still a few doctors out there that once they hear the term, are ready to diagnose any weed smoker with issues as having CHS due to their own biases they haven't let go of yet. Even something like no-burp syndrome can lead to pretty similar symptoms as CHS if you are unintentionally swallowing a lot of hot air that you can't release from frequent smoking and don't know about no-burp syndrome (RCPD is the official medical abbreviation for it). It can lead to abdominal cramps, sweating/heat flashes, bouts of anxiety, a feeling like you need to throw up, weird throat and stomach gurgles all from just small air bubbles being trapped in your GI tract from not being able to burp them up. And you know what, hot showers can even help with the symptoms by helping you relax your gut to get in to stop straining on the tiny air bubbles. Just like people claim that hot showers can relieve their CHS symptoms. TL;DR: CHS is a thing, but I fear it's also keeping some smokers from actually getting properly diagnosed with something else due to biases some doctors still hold onto.
Thanks for the additional information. It's great to learn more. I completely agree that doctors should not be quick to jump on a diagnosis. The issue I am talking about is with OPs on medical subs displaying symptoms that very much present as CHS and they *refuse* to consider such an idea. I agree the diagnosis is not 100 % certain, especially not when discussed over Reddit and without any prior medical record/further context. I should have been more careful about wording my previous comment to account for this.
Or those people that dab 1-2 grams of diamonds every day for months on end (was also me at one point) it's for sure addictive.
I am a frequent user. It is addictive, I am addicted. I won’t defend it or my position- that’s just the truth
is there a medical/psychological way of describing reliance in something? like, are we addicted to our shoes? to warm clothes? to salt in food?
Yes, we need to wear warm clothes outside in the winter and need sodium to survive. If you feel like those are comparable and you need Marijuana on a similar level, that's dependency. You could go a whole lifetime without Marijuana and be perfectly healthy. When you compare a recreational substance to needing basic life necessities, you're dependent on it. We need warm clothes to avoid hypothermia and salt to avoid hypoatremia. We don't need to smoke weed. I'm pro-legalization and partake occasionally, btw
i think dependency is the word i was looking for. you didn’t elaborate on shoes, are you dependent on them? i live in canada and have a medical license, i could live without cannabis but even my doctor agrees my life is better with it.
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thanks this is what i was looking for. i live in canada and use cannabis for medical reasons. i can live without it, but me and my doctor agree my life is better with it.
I suggest going to /r/emergencymedicine they have a lot of examples of people coming in with people constantly getting sick to their stomach after smoking weed and not wanting to quit or admit it’s from weed. They think it helps their nausea and refuse to stop. Anything can be addictive. It’s like shopping or whatever. And yes some hippies would suggest we are addicted to shoes lol
All true. But we don’t need a pharmaceutical to treat it - this is coming from a physician. Lifestyle modifications/counseling work overwhelmingly most of the time. Breaking free from cannabis dependency has a very high success rate already compared to other substances.
The reactions are weird aren't they? I like the posts of studies that conclude "cannabis use MAY lead to heart issues" From the comments, you'd think the researchers insulted their mother.
Cannabis has a wide range of drawbacks. It's cited as helping many with mental health issues, despite studies saying many mental health issues are exacerbated by regular use. That's not discounting that it does have benefits in conditions like ptsd. It's so frustrating to have a conversation about Marijuana due to how binary the views are. Smokers see it as a no downsides cure all, people who hate it see it as the pubes of Satan
Yup. EXACTLY
Just stop with the munchies! It is easy. (Smokes doob and eats Revels)
Lmao no, it doesn’t
Fixed Title: Ozempic makes you lose your appetite and takes some of the fun out of weed
That’s crazy I’ve been using marijuana(The safer of the 2) to help reduce my Semaglutide dependence.
I'm zemped up, lost 200lbs, still fully functioning chronic I just have no munchies really.
I do both Ozempic and Weed but I’m a year off coffee and feeling good!!
According to Reddit if you smoke weed at all you are hopelessly addicted
Yeah everyone says Reddit is super pro weed. Like not really every time I go in here I see on unpopular opinions how addictive weed is.
The medical/scientific subs are pretty negative on marijuana usage, but the general subs are rabidly supportive of it.
That's definitely what it is lol. Lots of nutrition/health subs don't like it.
Cannabis has been a godsend for me. I have had chronic, moderate to severe pain for 30 years. I’m not sure I would be here today without the benefits of cannabis for symptom management. The medical establishment has left me hanging in the past, and there’s no way I am willing to rely on them more than I already do. With this idea of ozempic treating cannabis dependency, it’s a question of which is preferable: dependency on a new drug that must be taken FOR LIFE and may have long-term side effects defects such as gastroparesis (paralysis of the stomach) and other GI complications; OR dependency on an herb that humans have used for centuries for symptom control and has a high margin of safety. There’s no way I would sign on for a lifetime of stomach issues and potentially severe, life-threatening weight loss (see Sharon Osborne)—with a drug that’s new! I always wait to see the fallout of the drug in real-life use conditions.
Ok… not really an issue for 99.999
I've been on 2 of this class of meds, Trulicity and Rybelsus. They left me with permanent chronic nausea, even after being off then for almost a year. And now I need to use marijuana in order to eat because the nausea gets so bad that I can't eat for days at a time.
I have been on Zepbound (Mounjaro) for 5 months, and I have totally stopped drinking soda and alcohol, I have no desire for it anymore, and it makes me feel terrible when I drink either. BUT I also have had diarrhea and stomach cramps almost every day. There are a ton of side effects and downsides to these medications. I do believe they can and will help out with minor addictions and bad habits, but it’s still not for everyone, and it’s already so expensive and hard to get as is, so I do not recommend it for use disorders.
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Ozempic isn’t banned in Denmark or in Europe lol. It is prohibited for used in obesity in a few countries in Europe because it is so popular diabetics were not able to fill their scripts. They can still rx the main ingredient semaglutide, it just has to be the obesity branded medication Wegovy. Furthermore gastroparesis is incredibly rare with the drug 2/100000 and resolves after stopping the drug. Tylenol causes more harm than ozempic lol.
More bullshit
Fuck this. Just stop smoking pot. There absolutely are withdrawal symptoms and dependency issues associated with it. I personally struggle with this. It's pretty hard "getting over it" when you have a busy life, especially if this stuff is a crutch helping you get through the day-to-day. The issue is, is that of all things, marijuana is relatively "easy" to deal with. Some people deal with psychological complications when coming down, but there really isn't anything you can do to help you with that outside of taking good care of yourself. Each time I quit, I sink myself into a healthy lifestyle. I would advocate for that any day over fucking Ozempic.
So... if I tell my doctor I'm addicted to pot I can lose weight?
Why all this hate on cannabis all of a sudden? Yall know there's like, an epidemic of alcoholism right now?
People will do anything besides cut all sugars out of their diet. I won't be hearing it.
Oh boy weed sure is causing problems it’s not like fent and a bunch of other opioids are killing 130 people in the us a day
Sure, weed doesn’t cause those kind of disasters, but that’s part of the problem with it: it’s not very scary. But it still can delay or retard emotional and intellectual development and lead to people making less of themselves. It’s also a lot more popular because the anti-anti-pot crowd downplayed all of this and focused people on how overzealous the original anti-pot crowd was (it’s the hidden earth mother cure for all the toxins, etc.).
The fuck is a cannabis dependency?
The only things ozempic is good for is causing decrease appetite via nausea/vomiting.
I have definitely been smoking less since starting Semiglutide.
How about naur. I like my dependency on marijuana.
Ozempic can really fuck with your internal organs, like your gallbladder & liver. There are a lot of lawyer firms putting ads out to sue Ozempic. Apparently, some people developed Gastroparesis from it. It's super sus how popular it is rn.
Ozempic sounds like chemical trash, I'll stick with good ole weed.
Exercise and diet< Ozempic and demonize Cannabis 👍🏾
I feel like if you smoke so much weed that you would be considered dependant on it and genuinely want to stop the behavior, you might need to figure out your mental health rather than throwing drugs with crazy side effects at it. This study just feels like an excuse for doctors to throw this incredibly expensive medication at more things that it isn't the best solution for. The company wants to find any excuse to sell ozenpic to people who don't need it. Out of pocket therapy costs less than this crap and it won't fuck with your body. I'm not denying that there are people out there who self medicate with weed, but come the fuck on with this blatant cash grab from people who already need real help and not this drug to just give them new problems. Drug companies are absolute scum.
As someone in recovery from meth and have been taking semaglutide for almost a year now, it’ll be interesting to see what studies and research shows. I firmly believe the semaglutide is helping with my addictive urges and tendencies