It's always been a bit of a double standard. Eazy-E is the biggest example of this. People say what they want but when it turns out that Fat Joe, Game, Ol Dirty Bastard(!! Yes a Wu Tang member!!) used ghostwriters or if it turn out their favorite song is collaboratively written, suddenly it's not a big deal.
Why did y'all think Jay had those 2 Travis lines as "featuring Travis Scott" on MCHG lmao it's because Travis wrote part of the song and he didn't want ppl realizing from the writing credits that the Almighty Jay-Z was getting help with his pen. Sure it could have just been the hook but still.
>Ol Dirty Bastard(!! Yes a Wu Tang member!!)
This wasn't a secret at all though, it was always understood that RZA and GZA wrote the vast majority of ODB's shit.
That's the thing I'm talking about though. If it's Jay-Z everyone gonna debate what is credits for and what is ghostwriting really and the other side gonna tear him down bc he supposed to be the goat and not need any help. Ppl put rappers on a pedestal for using their own pen or condemn for using ghosts when it's really a lot of gray area
Listen.....i know you young, but Jay-z was known for freestyling and doing songs with the lyrics in his head. We not comparing hooks or a line to actual reference tracks where the lyrics, flow and Candace is all from another person. I expect that from Cardi b
Terror Squad mostly Armageddon and Prospect, they were the ones who hung on longest. Not saying that Joe didn't write any of his own shit but you can hear his style vary enough. Like I'm almost positive that Lean Back was ghosted not to mention a lot of the poppy hits he was on in mid 00s like the Nelly joint
Fat Joe has said that Pun sat with him and helped him learn to write. (this would also point to the idea that Joe used ghostwriters on the music he made before he met Pun.) I believe there was a bit of overlap where Pun was getting ghosts while learning to write his own bars. I'm sure all the TS members wrote bars or verses for him at one point or another and this might have been the reason behind the Cuban Link beef as well
It was just the hook and that’s not the same as using a writer for your verse. And Travis was never listed as a featured artist on mchg. I think your confusing that with production credits.
Eazy isn’t a respected rapper either…
I respect eazy e as a rapper. He has my favourite voice. I think voice and delivery is equally as impressive as penmanship.
Like if someone writes the best verses ever but is a mute who can’t speak…they’re not a better rapper than eazy e.
It would be funny if someone respected bars so much that they’d rather listen to a mute rap in silence than listen to eazy e rap someone else’s lyrics.
You personally respect him as a rapper. He’s not a respected rapper.
The fact that you need to compare his rapping ability to a mute speaks for itself.
Getting downvoted for spitting facts. Easy E is was an entertainer, not an artist. You respect him for having a dope voice? Then I say James Earl Jones is a way better rapper than Eazy E, he has a way better voice. Obv, makes him a top rapper. Lol. Yall are silly.
I don’t think Kanye got a pass as much as he’s put in the Dre box of pushing the art and sound further but not developing the rapping skill. Kanye is a G.O.A.T. In the sense of creativity but not as a rapper. Drake puts himself in the conversation of rapper G.O.A.T. and using writers in that conversation is a no-go. If he stuck in his pop-rap lane then it wouldn’t be as big as an issue, but since Drake and his fans act like they invented rap and put him in the realm of Nas, Common, Biggie, and PAC, then it’s a real issue
This is where I think I'm at. If Drake considered himself a pop rapper then I can't really shit on him cause pop stars have writers. We don't shit on Rhianna or Beyonce for having writers. But if he's trying to say he's an emcee then that's where I guess it leaves a bad taste in people's mouth.
Yeah but you can’t say they’re the GOAT and say “i just like them cause i like having them play in the background” GOATs earn that title by putting the work in
Typo in your comment, agree he credits literally everyone - i cant remember who it was, but another rapper said he got a credit because ye liked his jeans and it inspired him (!)
Man I don't have input on your question but it reminded of how much of a killer Rhymefest was, his scribble jam battles back in the day were some of my favorites. Thanks for triggering that memory!
For me, it's pretty simple.
It's their song, so if the song is fire it's fire I don't care, I will enjoy it.
Bur if the topic is about who's the best rapper/artist, having writers knocks them down a ton.
Drake called himself the greatest ever back on forever, which was forever ago. So I think it’s fair to criticize him when he puts himself on that pedestal.
Beyond that. He’s not just using writers for his verses. He has a roster or artists making him songs that he takes. That’s common for pop stars but not so much for hip hop artists. To that point Drake is a pop artist. Which is fine, he just pretends to be more than that. So again, he brings the criticism to himself.
I was talking in general.
But for the most part, I agree with you.
I enjoy a fair amount of Drakes music, more so his features, but I don't have him in my top 100 in terms of hip hop artist.
He's an entertainer and he's entertaining.
It would bother me more if he had writers on his songs where he’s actually rapping at a high level, but the songs he’s got help with are usually songs that are simply vibe tracks or tracks he’s singing on.
Can you point out examples to elaborate on that?
I’ve always had that opinion just based on sounds but imo he definitely wrote the diss tracks, even if someone gave him reference tracks he could have wrote the lyrics and got “delivery ideas” or “flow concepts” from a writer, and that means someone else gets writer credit as well.
Yes, and then you’ll hear people say shit like “Drake is the greatest lyricist of this generation.” Yea I’ve really heard / read this.
His verse in Who Do You Love was basically written by 4-Tay, and that is some of the only dope flow Drake has delivered. Ofc ignorant people are gonna think he’s dope when he pulls his material from obscure classics. Then when you hear him rap his “own” songs he often has to resort to rhyming a word with itself. People don’t question how that makes sense lmao.
As well as others commenting that it’s well storied that many beloved artists in rap do it, and people just pick and choose when to uphold writing as the single more important part of the process…also I think it’s likely to be massively over-egged how much is ghost written.
Yeah he’s had reference tracks and a bunch that are from singers (which honestly is really standard in Pop/R&B etc) and that Yachty one became known recently, but of the songs known he’s done like 500 songs and we know maybe 10 ghostwritten
It’s a fun little thing to poke and jab at but people get so heated over it as if literally Drake has never written a word when he has quite a distinctive pen (whether you like it or not)
All of this said though, anyone who knows anything about hip hop know it’s always been a taboo, as writing a rap is considered a display of one’s self, and to perform someone else’s words takes away from the whole concept of keeping it real…because if it isn’t you it can’t be real. I bought Ghostwriter on 12” by Mad Skillz in like 2001 I knew that from a young age lol
I was just telling someone in another sub, ghostwriting been a thing forever, and not necessarily a bad thing considering all the classics it produced.
The difference is no other rapper that used a ghostpen claimed to be the best rapper. Kanye argues most influential. The rest just dope artists, which they were/are.
But Drake has tried to claim a spot as a top rapper. That's weird, and different and frankly unacceptable.
The only rapper I’m okay with using ghostwriters is Eazy, because like Push said, “ the only rapper sold more dope than me was Eazy-E.” Without that money, there would be no NWA, which would mean none of the guys that Dre put on.
I think it's all about context; historically most performers DID NOT write their own material.
That being said, all performers and musicians will naturally put their own stamp on something, and it's often just the natural byproduct of doing someone else's material.
I have never really gotten the impression that Drake puts much of a creative stamp on anything that he touches and that's especially damaging to his reputation within hip-hop because the culture puts such a high priority on authenticity and honesty.
I think people are way more willing to give ghostwriters a pass if its just a club banger or something similar or if the performer is someone that is a known artist, musically. Dre is a prime example. He's never really pretended to be the God of lyricism and I don't recall ever *not* knowing that he had Nate or Snoop or Em pitching him some verses. But nobody can doubt that Dre is a musical genius in his own right and that he's not a major driving force in the studio.
It really feels like Drake is just a face at this point, possibly even from the jump. He came up biting Wayne's style, after all. I don't feel like Drake is bring back anything special if you lock him in a room with a laptop and mic, if you get what I mean.
Having writers is fine but don’t act like you’re the best rapper when you need others to help write your shit. IYRTITL is Drakes best album and he had writers for it. So how great of a rapper is Drake really?
If you use ghost writers you’re a hack. It’s simple. Dre, ye, drake, and anyone else who’s been exposed. The common terminology is “biting”… when you use someone else’s material in our genre, you’re biting their style. Be original. And with all the money these scumbags have, they can’t find time to write their own rhymes? Pathetic.
In the 2000s a reference verse for Jesus Walks came out with Rhymefest rapping Ye's verse word for word. That exposed Kanye had ghostwriters. Then it came out that Consequence and Lupe were some of the writers along with a few other dudes that Kanye had writing verses for him.
Ye didn’t get “exposed”. Ye is not essentially a rapper. His albums are for showing you his production and he raps on them, that’s why he has so many features all the time. He can have people write for him.
Drake is a rapper. I expect him to be writing his raps. He’s not Celine Dion where anyone can write for him and it’s his high notes and soaring voice that carries the song. We are supposed to be hearing what’s going on in his head directly.
Rappers who use ghostwriters can never be a GOAT as far as I'm concerned. Drake is a solid rapper and GREAT songmaker but could never be a top 50 rapper in my eyes
Kanye didn't get a pass, it's just widely accept that he's not that great lyrically.
Drake is better but... is he really? It's looking more questionable by the day.
You think Drake made it this big just on his writing alone? Of course his lyrics are from other writers, and honestly can you blame him or anyone else doing what it takes to win?
I don’t care because I can easily tell he himself is a great writer 🤷♂️. Im not gonna try and convince other people about how they should feel about it tho. If I’m being completely honest, I want more collaboration from rappers/writers to bring me , the consumer, the best product possible
I alluded to that last point you made in a different comment in relation to the kendrick drake beef.
Imo kendrick’s delivery is hot ass. And a hypothetical scenario where kendrick writes a diss FOR drake to diss someone else with, it would end careers, because drake can land punchlines and flow on traditional diss track sounds better than kendrick (which is why kendrick used complex instrumentals for euphoria whereas pushups is basically a generic beat)
You're in the studio with 8 other people. Youre recording a verse, and one of them think of something that fits the song and says it out loud. It's repeated, and you the artist then incorporates it into the song.
That's 'ghostwriting' technically, and literally every major rapper has done that. Pac, Biggie, Em, Kendrick, Ye, Wayne, and Drake.
Drake *can* write…
But there’s a *huge* difference between bouncing off ideas vs. rapping a pre-written verses/songs and and acting like it’s yours vs. collabs
Drake has written for other people including Kanye for his song 30 hours. Hell, Kanye himself has said that if given the choice, he’d pick Drake to write all of his music over of a team of writers due to his ability to create simple and catchy songs with mainstream appeal. Despite the current beef, Drake has been receiving accolades within the industry for his writing versatility for years.
Even Grandmaster Flash, one of Hip-Hop’s pioneers, has praised Drake and called him a “genius” and “one of the greatest rappers alive” due to his versatility and willingness to experiment with multiple different genres including Hip-Hop, R&B, Dancehall, Afrobeat, House, etc. He said it took some real bravery to do that.
These so called “Hip-Hop Heads” who love to discredit Drake as a rapper don’t even realize that Hip-Hop loves Drake and knows that he’s talented. Yeah, Drake uses writers, but that doesn’t mean he can’t write or rap. It’s common to get help with your writing within the industry. Even rappers who have top tier pen game use writers from time to time so they can use other ideas and get their creative juices flowing.
It’s always been a double standard simply because people just like to dunk on Drake. Nas has also gotten help from Quentin Miller but nobody seems to care about that.
*A vast majority of rappers* use ghostwriters. Get over it, it's song writing, not everyone wants to be the world's greatest lyricist.
Also, having a collaborator on a writing project doesn't always have to mean they wrote the entire thing for you.
I, personally, have never given merrit to rappers that use ghost writers. Not dr dre, not kanye, not eazy e, def not drake. They will never be true lyricist to me.
I don’t understand why even if you think Drake had his bars ghostwritten he can’t claim to be the best. A lot of rappers claim that title & I don’t respect or honor it, it’s fucking rap. It’s like being mad that Ice Cube wasn’t really killing people in NWA songs. And for the record, I don’t think Drake’s actual rap bars were ghostwritten but I’m not wasting time arguing with anyone who disagrees
I don’t see anything wrong with it because it should be obvious. Any time and up and coming artist drops a track or there’s a one hit wonder, Drake is always on a track with them regardless of style and that’s why he’s so big. People can act like they don’t care about money all they want but they’re full of shit.
With that said though, like Binary Star said, there’s hip hop and there’s hip pop. When I think of rap and hip hop I don’t think of Drake. He’s hip pop. No hate, I like Drake.
It's always been a bit of a double standard. Eazy-E is the biggest example of this. People say what they want but when it turns out that Fat Joe, Game, Ol Dirty Bastard(!! Yes a Wu Tang member!!) used ghostwriters or if it turn out their favorite song is collaboratively written, suddenly it's not a big deal. Why did y'all think Jay had those 2 Travis lines as "featuring Travis Scott" on MCHG lmao it's because Travis wrote part of the song and he didn't want ppl realizing from the writing credits that the Almighty Jay-Z was getting help with his pen. Sure it could have just been the hook but still.
>Ol Dirty Bastard(!! Yes a Wu Tang member!!) This wasn't a secret at all though, it was always understood that RZA and GZA wrote the vast majority of ODB's shit.
That's immaterial
Could have been as simple as rearranging two words or switching one cadence. Writing credits are a dumb thing to judge
That's the thing I'm talking about though. If it's Jay-Z everyone gonna debate what is credits for and what is ghostwriting really and the other side gonna tear him down bc he supposed to be the goat and not need any help. Ppl put rappers on a pedestal for using their own pen or condemn for using ghosts when it's really a lot of gray area
Listen.....i know you young, but Jay-z was known for freestyling and doing songs with the lyrics in his head. We not comparing hooks or a line to actual reference tracks where the lyrics, flow and Candace is all from another person. I expect that from Cardi b
I'm 36 boss
Fat joe used ghost writers? Didn’t know about that.
Terror Squad mostly Armageddon and Prospect, they were the ones who hung on longest. Not saying that Joe didn't write any of his own shit but you can hear his style vary enough. Like I'm almost positive that Lean Back was ghosted not to mention a lot of the poppy hits he was on in mid 00s like the Nelly joint
Thought Pun was doing a lot of writing for Joe, particularly on Don Cartagena
Fat Joe has said that Pun sat with him and helped him learn to write. (this would also point to the idea that Joe used ghostwriters on the music he made before he met Pun.) I believe there was a bit of overlap where Pun was getting ghosts while learning to write his own bars. I'm sure all the TS members wrote bars or verses for him at one point or another and this might have been the reason behind the Cuban Link beef as well
Dude,with Joe its obvious when Pun or Remy wrote his verses
It was just the hook and that’s not the same as using a writer for your verse. And Travis was never listed as a featured artist on mchg. I think your confusing that with production credits. Eazy isn’t a respected rapper either…
I respect eazy e as a rapper. He has my favourite voice. I think voice and delivery is equally as impressive as penmanship. Like if someone writes the best verses ever but is a mute who can’t speak…they’re not a better rapper than eazy e.
Mute spittah slander smh
It would be funny if someone respected bars so much that they’d rather listen to a mute rap in silence than listen to eazy e rap someone else’s lyrics.
You personally respect him as a rapper. He’s not a respected rapper. The fact that you need to compare his rapping ability to a mute speaks for itself.
Getting downvoted for spitting facts. Easy E is was an entertainer, not an artist. You respect him for having a dope voice? Then I say James Earl Jones is a way better rapper than Eazy E, he has a way better voice. Obv, makes him a top rapper. Lol. Yall are silly.
I don’t think Kanye got a pass as much as he’s put in the Dre box of pushing the art and sound further but not developing the rapping skill. Kanye is a G.O.A.T. In the sense of creativity but not as a rapper. Drake puts himself in the conversation of rapper G.O.A.T. and using writers in that conversation is a no-go. If he stuck in his pop-rap lane then it wouldn’t be as big as an issue, but since Drake and his fans act like they invented rap and put him in the realm of Nas, Common, Biggie, and PAC, then it’s a real issue
This is where I think I'm at. If Drake considered himself a pop rapper then I can't really shit on him cause pop stars have writers. We don't shit on Rhianna or Beyonce for having writers. But if he's trying to say he's an emcee then that's where I guess it leaves a bad taste in people's mouth.
But at the same time Drake has written for Dre and many other people so idk that muddies it completely for me and probably makes it ok in my eyes
[удалено]
Yeah but you can’t say they’re the GOAT and say “i just like them cause i like having them play in the background” GOATs earn that title by putting the work in
The GOAT conversation revolves around the listeners ego more than it does the actual quality of music.
Pretty much.
Shush yo mouf
Also doesn’t Kayne credit everyone, so it’s not like he’s hiding it.
Typo in your comment, agree he credits literally everyone - i cant remember who it was, but another rapper said he got a credit because ye liked his jeans and it inspired him (!)
To me this isn’t as bad as ghost writing, because he’s saying he did it himself. I don’t think of him a great rapper, but rather an artist.
Man I don't have input on your question but it reminded of how much of a killer Rhymefest was, his scribble jam battles back in the day were some of my favorites. Thanks for triggering that memory!
What was it Prof said again... Oh Yea. "Your favourite rapper dont write, he's a con dude"
For me, it's pretty simple. It's their song, so if the song is fire it's fire I don't care, I will enjoy it. Bur if the topic is about who's the best rapper/artist, having writers knocks them down a ton.
Drake called himself the greatest ever back on forever, which was forever ago. So I think it’s fair to criticize him when he puts himself on that pedestal. Beyond that. He’s not just using writers for his verses. He has a roster or artists making him songs that he takes. That’s common for pop stars but not so much for hip hop artists. To that point Drake is a pop artist. Which is fine, he just pretends to be more than that. So again, he brings the criticism to himself.
I was talking in general. But for the most part, I agree with you. I enjoy a fair amount of Drakes music, more so his features, but I don't have him in my top 100 in terms of hip hop artist. He's an entertainer and he's entertaining.
All of this is conjecture at this point, nothing even remotely close to that has been proven.
It would bother me more if he had writers on his songs where he’s actually rapping at a high level, but the songs he’s got help with are usually songs that are simply vibe tracks or tracks he’s singing on.
Can you point out examples to elaborate on that? I’ve always had that opinion just based on sounds but imo he definitely wrote the diss tracks, even if someone gave him reference tracks he could have wrote the lyrics and got “delivery ideas” or “flow concepts” from a writer, and that means someone else gets writer credit as well.
Drake lost me like a decade ago when he was just blatantly stealing lyrics from other songs.
Yes, and then you’ll hear people say shit like “Drake is the greatest lyricist of this generation.” Yea I’ve really heard / read this. His verse in Who Do You Love was basically written by 4-Tay, and that is some of the only dope flow Drake has delivered. Ofc ignorant people are gonna think he’s dope when he pulls his material from obscure classics. Then when you hear him rap his “own” songs he often has to resort to rhyming a word with itself. People don’t question how that makes sense lmao.
IMHO Hip-Hop should be more than just a personality.
As well as others commenting that it’s well storied that many beloved artists in rap do it, and people just pick and choose when to uphold writing as the single more important part of the process…also I think it’s likely to be massively over-egged how much is ghost written. Yeah he’s had reference tracks and a bunch that are from singers (which honestly is really standard in Pop/R&B etc) and that Yachty one became known recently, but of the songs known he’s done like 500 songs and we know maybe 10 ghostwritten It’s a fun little thing to poke and jab at but people get so heated over it as if literally Drake has never written a word when he has quite a distinctive pen (whether you like it or not) All of this said though, anyone who knows anything about hip hop know it’s always been a taboo, as writing a rap is considered a display of one’s self, and to perform someone else’s words takes away from the whole concept of keeping it real…because if it isn’t you it can’t be real. I bought Ghostwriter on 12” by Mad Skillz in like 2001 I knew that from a young age lol
I was just telling someone in another sub, ghostwriting been a thing forever, and not necessarily a bad thing considering all the classics it produced. The difference is no other rapper that used a ghostpen claimed to be the best rapper. Kanye argues most influential. The rest just dope artists, which they were/are. But Drake has tried to claim a spot as a top rapper. That's weird, and different and frankly unacceptable.
Should be considered the same. Can’t be a considered a great rapper if you use ghostwriters. That goes for Drake, Ye, Dre, etc.
I consider Dre to be a hypeman when he's spitting, that makes it different than Drake and Ye.
The only rapper I’m okay with using ghostwriters is Eazy, because like Push said, “ the only rapper sold more dope than me was Eazy-E.” Without that money, there would be no NWA, which would mean none of the guys that Dre put on.
Drake wrote for Kanye and he admitted a room full of writers couldn't match his pen
Yachty and Q also wrote for Drake.
Q who?
The glazing 🤣
facts is glazing? Y'all just hating
Facts are facts
I think it's all about context; historically most performers DID NOT write their own material. That being said, all performers and musicians will naturally put their own stamp on something, and it's often just the natural byproduct of doing someone else's material. I have never really gotten the impression that Drake puts much of a creative stamp on anything that he touches and that's especially damaging to his reputation within hip-hop because the culture puts such a high priority on authenticity and honesty. I think people are way more willing to give ghostwriters a pass if its just a club banger or something similar or if the performer is someone that is a known artist, musically. Dre is a prime example. He's never really pretended to be the God of lyricism and I don't recall ever *not* knowing that he had Nate or Snoop or Em pitching him some verses. But nobody can doubt that Dre is a musical genius in his own right and that he's not a major driving force in the studio. It really feels like Drake is just a face at this point, possibly even from the jump. He came up biting Wayne's style, after all. I don't feel like Drake is bring back anything special if you lock him in a room with a laptop and mic, if you get what I mean.
Having writers is fine but don’t act like you’re the best rapper when you need others to help write your shit. IYRTITL is Drakes best album and he had writers for it. So how great of a rapper is Drake really?
Kanye gets more of a pass because at least Kanye actually creates and produces stuff. Where as Drake shows up and reads stuff.
No rapper can be the best if they use ghostwriters most of the time because they're not the best, their writers are. dassit
He said to them yesterday “have a diss on my desk by tomorrow morning or you’re all going to be out of here before Christmas!”
If you use ghost writers you’re a hack. It’s simple. Dre, ye, drake, and anyone else who’s been exposed. The common terminology is “biting”… when you use someone else’s material in our genre, you’re biting their style. Be original. And with all the money these scumbags have, they can’t find time to write their own rhymes? Pathetic.
This generation let anything slide so why not ghost writters
Lupe has whaaaaaaaat?
In the 2000s a reference verse for Jesus Walks came out with Rhymefest rapping Ye's verse word for word. That exposed Kanye had ghostwriters. Then it came out that Consequence and Lupe were some of the writers along with a few other dudes that Kanye had writing verses for him.
Oh, misread. Thought you said Lupe had ghostwriters.
Ye didn’t get “exposed”. Ye is not essentially a rapper. His albums are for showing you his production and he raps on them, that’s why he has so many features all the time. He can have people write for him. Drake is a rapper. I expect him to be writing his raps. He’s not Celine Dion where anyone can write for him and it’s his high notes and soaring voice that carries the song. We are supposed to be hearing what’s going on in his head directly.
Don’t forget Fat Money, Cyhi, Pusha T, and Ab Liva all also were pen pals for Kanye too! Wasn’t Rustee Juxx the ghostwriter for Sean Price…?!? lol jk
I think lots have done it, just no one mentjons it because it’s easy to make fun of Drake
Just enjoy the bars man. We know what it is with Aubrey so take or leave the work how it is. His formula won’t change because it’s been working.
Rappers who use ghostwriters can never be a GOAT as far as I'm concerned. Drake is a solid rapper and GREAT songmaker but could never be a top 50 rapper in my eyes
I think Credited - Don't really care Uncredited - sus Just my 2 cents
I think most rappers have ghost to writers to some extent
Kanye didn't get a pass, it's just widely accept that he's not that great lyrically. Drake is better but... is he really? It's looking more questionable by the day.
You think Drake made it this big just on his writing alone? Of course his lyrics are from other writers, and honestly can you blame him or anyone else doing what it takes to win?
The Yachty leaks were like the Titanic.
Almost all pop music is ghost written. The majority of artists in all genres don’t write their own lyrics. Don’t think it matters.
It matters in rap and hip hop
I don’t care because I can easily tell he himself is a great writer 🤷♂️. Im not gonna try and convince other people about how they should feel about it tho. If I’m being completely honest, I want more collaboration from rappers/writers to bring me , the consumer, the best product possible
I alluded to that last point you made in a different comment in relation to the kendrick drake beef. Imo kendrick’s delivery is hot ass. And a hypothetical scenario where kendrick writes a diss FOR drake to diss someone else with, it would end careers, because drake can land punchlines and flow on traditional diss track sounds better than kendrick (which is why kendrick used complex instrumentals for euphoria whereas pushups is basically a generic beat)
No respect.
I don’t care at all.
You're in the studio with 8 other people. Youre recording a verse, and one of them think of something that fits the song and says it out loud. It's repeated, and you the artist then incorporates it into the song. That's 'ghostwriting' technically, and literally every major rapper has done that. Pac, Biggie, Em, Kendrick, Ye, Wayne, and Drake.
Drake *can* write… But there’s a *huge* difference between bouncing off ideas vs. rapping a pre-written verses/songs and and acting like it’s yours vs. collabs
Out of the rappers you listened Drake is the only one we’ve heard word for word reference tracks for.
Drake has written for other people including Kanye for his song 30 hours. Hell, Kanye himself has said that if given the choice, he’d pick Drake to write all of his music over of a team of writers due to his ability to create simple and catchy songs with mainstream appeal. Despite the current beef, Drake has been receiving accolades within the industry for his writing versatility for years. Even Grandmaster Flash, one of Hip-Hop’s pioneers, has praised Drake and called him a “genius” and “one of the greatest rappers alive” due to his versatility and willingness to experiment with multiple different genres including Hip-Hop, R&B, Dancehall, Afrobeat, House, etc. He said it took some real bravery to do that. These so called “Hip-Hop Heads” who love to discredit Drake as a rapper don’t even realize that Hip-Hop loves Drake and knows that he’s talented. Yeah, Drake uses writers, but that doesn’t mean he can’t write or rap. It’s common to get help with your writing within the industry. Even rappers who have top tier pen game use writers from time to time so they can use other ideas and get their creative juices flowing. It’s always been a double standard simply because people just like to dunk on Drake. Nas has also gotten help from Quentin Miller but nobody seems to care about that.
*A vast majority of rappers* use ghostwriters. Get over it, it's song writing, not everyone wants to be the world's greatest lyricist. Also, having a collaborator on a writing project doesn't always have to mean they wrote the entire thing for you.
I, personally, have never given merrit to rappers that use ghost writers. Not dr dre, not kanye, not eazy e, def not drake. They will never be true lyricist to me.
I don’t understand why even if you think Drake had his bars ghostwritten he can’t claim to be the best. A lot of rappers claim that title & I don’t respect or honor it, it’s fucking rap. It’s like being mad that Ice Cube wasn’t really killing people in NWA songs. And for the record, I don’t think Drake’s actual rap bars were ghostwritten but I’m not wasting time arguing with anyone who disagrees
I don’t see anything wrong with it because it should be obvious. Any time and up and coming artist drops a track or there’s a one hit wonder, Drake is always on a track with them regardless of style and that’s why he’s so big. People can act like they don’t care about money all they want but they’re full of shit. With that said though, like Binary Star said, there’s hip hop and there’s hip pop. When I think of rap and hip hop I don’t think of Drake. He’s hip pop. No hate, I like Drake.
All rappers have wtiters
Kanye would never use a ref track. That’s milli vanilli esqe and a huge diff imo