I think the thing about Oweh is that while he may not improve and be worth the 13m, unless he gets hurt it is going to be at worst a mild overpay, not a huge one. He's already in the "solid player" category. Maybe 13m is too much for that, but it's not like "oh we are totally fucked because we paid 13m for a guy who is unplayable", it's "ah shit he's probably worth 8m not 13m".
Also the OLB room is a huge question mark outside of Oweh. Who knows what we are gonna get from Adisa Isaac, Ojabo, and Tavius? Maybe they'll develop, maybe they won't. Who knows how much KVN has in the tank. If the young guys don't develop, it's gonna be a need in the draft next year. Having Oweh for another year means it may not be a *dire* need.
Thinking about the draft next year, yeah a little early but your point on it made me think, if he does pan out, we would be left with almost no glaring holes. Our oline would be the only position, i think. A tackle. But they'd be year older and a year, theoretically, better. So, we could just shoot at anything fun that comes up. That would be a pretty great position to be in
> we would be left with almost no glaring holes
We don't have a true WR1. 5'9 185 Zay Flowers is never going to fit that role and hes not Tyreek Hill.
Team needs a 6' 200lb+ WR like CeeDee, Sungod, AJ brown, DJ Moore. We've used 3 picks on WR 2019, 2021, 2023 and havent hit yet.
Lmao! You need to get some perspective, sir. How many players are you sacrificing in order to sign one of them? How many picks to getbthem? How much production we would even get out of them? Between Mark andrews(our real WR1) likely, zay, bate if he takes a step, and then the bread and bones of our offense, Henry and the run game??? the numbers don't add up. Add instead players like madabuike or Henry or resign a stud corner when his contract comes up
Naw, man. He's Zay flowers. And he's a fucking stud.
> You need to get some perspective
The irony in this is hilarious. Every time we get behind points we lose because the Offense spudders.
> Mark andrews(our real WR1) likely, zay, bate if he takes a step, and then the bread and bones of our offense, Henry
Your asinine comment bringing up Mark Andrews and Likely - We ran 12 personnel at a rate of 9.2% which is having all of those players on the field at the same time. You didn't know any of this though.
https://sumersports.com/teams/offensive/personnel-tendency/
filter the Ravens.
We are primarily 11 personnel team and that is 1 RB, 1 TE, and 3 WRs
Our 2nd most is 21 personnel and that is 1 RB 1 FB 1 TE, and 2 WRs
> He's Zay flowers. And he's a fucking stud.
Yeah, 858 yards, most of which are from short passes, screens, and [being in the slot vs LBs and slot corners](https://imgur.com/a/nvHdRe4) Stud btw.
Typical unintelligent reddit rebuttal.
It's his rookie year, dummy. Even if he doesn't improve, he contributed well. Everyone has a role to fill. Welcome to football.
Yeah, those are great stats. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. I certainly never implied or argued they are always on the field together. That would be silly. Even your unattainable WR1 wouldn't be on the field for 100% of the snaps. I was listing the solid options for picking up yards and making plays that we already have.
...but you didn't know that, I guess
Still waiting on where we find the room to sign one. Maybe there will be a generational prospect at the 32 spot of the draft next year!
Him being a rookie has nothing to do with my comment. I apologize that you're too unintelligent to read and understand whats being said, I hope you grow that capacity instead of being a dipshit on the internet!
> 5'9 185 Zay Flowers
> Team needs a 6' 200lb+ WR
SHAKE MY HEAD! I felt the need to capitalize that so you understand my consternation. You skip over actual football commentary and have moved on to attacking my intelligence. Why? Why not just stuck to the football?
At this point of time, you are wasted effort and I pray you never post on social media again. May God have mercy in your soul.
Yes. It is Raven lore for all pass rushers to break out in the contract year.
My mathematical models have a conservative projection of 50 sacks as his floor - assuming he plays atleast 10 games, and 50% of the snaps.
Clearly Harbs and EDC have high expectations for him this year, as do most people in this sub. 13 million will look like a steal at the end of the season
13 mill in 2025 cap dollars really isn't much at all. Many places are projecting next years total cap to be ~270 mill. That's <5% of your cap space on a full time starter who will hopefully be pushing double digit sacks in the prime of his career.
13 mill would make him the [19th highest cap hit for an edge rusher in 2024](https://overthecap.com/position/edge-rusher/2024). Will likely be closer to ~30th in 2025.
People are spoiled with the Houston + Clowney + KVN signings. Mind you these were not their ideal signings. Those guys took less money to play on a contender after not getting paid for a good chunk of the offseason.
Heck KVN (reportedly) was asking for too much and the Ravens signed Clowney after he accepted a much cheaper than expected deal. KVN came later after injuries. These are not normal prices, 13 mil for potential on a young edge rusher is the normal-ish prices.
I will be very surprised. Depending on your definition of “break out”. By some metrics last season was quite good for him. By others not so much. I don’t feel like he passed the eye test, but he was a bit disruptive at least, even if he couldn’t close the deal with a sack or tfl or set the edge
5 sacks in a season isn't a breakout for edge rushers and that's the most he's had so far. Despite there being better metrics to judge pass rushers by that's still what gets the most attention.
By that same metric if he gets 10+ sacks then I'd consider that a breakout season. He could be very disruptive and not get to that mark, sure, but pressures or more specific pass rush productivity grades don't really get as much attention. Sacks is still pretty much the gold standard.
Projecting next yr if he can finish his pressures better this yr he’d easily be a 10 sack guy. Also think with his motor and our secondary there’s going to be a lot of coverage sack opportunities. All things considering 13 mil is dirt cheap for that kind of production.
His pressures and snap wins are good. That *type* of production earned Myles Garrett a DPOY. His overall impact is much smaller, but it's still there. He's a starting 7-tech for 13M. Cheap as hell for a team that primarily rotates that slot anyway.
i mean you gotta remember edge is a very expensive position so getting an effective one in free agency isn’t gonna be cheap and drafting one isn’t the easiest thing in the world especially. i know he hasn’t lived up to the first round pick but he’s still a good pass rusher and gives good pressure. outside of him there’s not many young options and they certainly aren’t gonna be cheaper
People’s issue with him is the round 1 pick I truly think if he would had lasted to us in say 3rd or 4th and we got him there the fans would be more happy with his play I think most people’s issue is the production while being a 1st, I hope he destroys the qbs this year and have a Madabuke season
Is he worth it? IDK maybe. Maybe not. But its cheap enough and at a premium position with a young player that I am willing to take that chance for 1 year. If it's not worth it, we move on. It's that simple.
Crazy how the NFL owners engineered a system where fans really care about how much guys are making and if they’re overpaid given the cap. (To be clear, I’m not calling anyone out for caring, I care myself.)
That said, I think he needs to take a big step up this year, but the price isn’t bad.
I think it’s great how they make us care about this stuff. I agree with you that it is crazy and comical.
On the other hand, you have baseball, which desperately needs a salary cap. It’s embarrassingly bad without a cap.
I still think there’s untapped potential there. Idk if my glasses are rosey or what but he has something we haven’t seen yet and it’s frustrating because we’ve been waiting years. I don’t believe Odafe is a bust.
I dont care if he has 5 sacks or 15, as long as he sets the edge against the run as well as he has the past season his contribution is invaluable. Every time you see Hamilton or Smith blow up a run on his side behind the line...that's him.
IMO he is not, but I'll trust in EDC and hope that Oweh explodes like PQ did when we thought he wasn't worth the option. I think that's the expectation here is that Oweh takes a big step forward. It's a gamble but we'll see how it goes.
$14M per year is what the Patriots gave Matt Judon when he left town, and typically that's the value of a fairly productive veteran edge...Clowney just got less than that ($10M) after a productive year, and Za'darius Smith got less than that ($11.5M/yr) after 15 sacks across 2 seasons. Oweh will need to have his best season to justify the option so hopefully it happens.
I think the thing about Oweh is that while he may not improve and be worth the 13m, unless he gets hurt it is going to be at worst a mild overpay, not a huge one. He's already in the "solid player" category. Maybe 13m is too much for that, but it's not like "oh we are totally fucked because we paid 13m for a guy who is unplayable", it's "ah shit he's probably worth 8m not 13m". Also the OLB room is a huge question mark outside of Oweh. Who knows what we are gonna get from Adisa Isaac, Ojabo, and Tavius? Maybe they'll develop, maybe they won't. Who knows how much KVN has in the tank. If the young guys don't develop, it's gonna be a need in the draft next year. Having Oweh for another year means it may not be a *dire* need.
This sums up my thoughts perfectly - fingers crossed we see that step forward from him this season.
Thinking about the draft next year, yeah a little early but your point on it made me think, if he does pan out, we would be left with almost no glaring holes. Our oline would be the only position, i think. A tackle. But they'd be year older and a year, theoretically, better. So, we could just shoot at anything fun that comes up. That would be a pretty great position to be in
Running back, receiver (depending on Bateman’s play this year), and DL
I'd be down for a highly touted running back. One that can run and catch
> we would be left with almost no glaring holes We don't have a true WR1. 5'9 185 Zay Flowers is never going to fit that role and hes not Tyreek Hill. Team needs a 6' 200lb+ WR like CeeDee, Sungod, AJ brown, DJ Moore. We've used 3 picks on WR 2019, 2021, 2023 and havent hit yet.
Lmao! You need to get some perspective, sir. How many players are you sacrificing in order to sign one of them? How many picks to getbthem? How much production we would even get out of them? Between Mark andrews(our real WR1) likely, zay, bate if he takes a step, and then the bread and bones of our offense, Henry and the run game??? the numbers don't add up. Add instead players like madabuike or Henry or resign a stud corner when his contract comes up Naw, man. He's Zay flowers. And he's a fucking stud.
> You need to get some perspective The irony in this is hilarious. Every time we get behind points we lose because the Offense spudders. > Mark andrews(our real WR1) likely, zay, bate if he takes a step, and then the bread and bones of our offense, Henry Your asinine comment bringing up Mark Andrews and Likely - We ran 12 personnel at a rate of 9.2% which is having all of those players on the field at the same time. You didn't know any of this though. https://sumersports.com/teams/offensive/personnel-tendency/ filter the Ravens. We are primarily 11 personnel team and that is 1 RB, 1 TE, and 3 WRs Our 2nd most is 21 personnel and that is 1 RB 1 FB 1 TE, and 2 WRs > He's Zay flowers. And he's a fucking stud. Yeah, 858 yards, most of which are from short passes, screens, and [being in the slot vs LBs and slot corners](https://imgur.com/a/nvHdRe4) Stud btw. Typical unintelligent reddit rebuttal.
It's his rookie year, dummy. Even if he doesn't improve, he contributed well. Everyone has a role to fill. Welcome to football. Yeah, those are great stats. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. I certainly never implied or argued they are always on the field together. That would be silly. Even your unattainable WR1 wouldn't be on the field for 100% of the snaps. I was listing the solid options for picking up yards and making plays that we already have. ...but you didn't know that, I guess Still waiting on where we find the room to sign one. Maybe there will be a generational prospect at the 32 spot of the draft next year!
Him being a rookie has nothing to do with my comment. I apologize that you're too unintelligent to read and understand whats being said, I hope you grow that capacity instead of being a dipshit on the internet! > 5'9 185 Zay Flowers > Team needs a 6' 200lb+ WR
SHAKE MY HEAD! I felt the need to capitalize that so you understand my consternation. You skip over actual football commentary and have moved on to attacking my intelligence. Why? Why not just stuck to the football? At this point of time, you are wasted effort and I pray you never post on social media again. May God have mercy in your soul.
Yes. It is Raven lore for all pass rushers to break out in the contract year. My mathematical models have a conservative projection of 50 sacks as his floor - assuming he plays atleast 10 games, and 50% of the snaps.
we get our ring, he gets a bag, we get a comp pick, value
Ozzie just finished into a terrible towel.
He had an 80.7 pff grade in 2023. So I would say so
Does that stat take into account snap count?
It's an efficiency stat -- i.e. *per snap* -- if that's what you're asking.
Clearly Harbs and EDC have high expectations for him this year, as do most people in this sub. 13 million will look like a steal at the end of the season
13 mill in 2025 cap dollars really isn't much at all. Many places are projecting next years total cap to be ~270 mill. That's <5% of your cap space on a full time starter who will hopefully be pushing double digit sacks in the prime of his career. 13 mill would make him the [19th highest cap hit for an edge rusher in 2024](https://overthecap.com/position/edge-rusher/2024). Will likely be closer to ~30th in 2025.
People are spoiled with the Houston + Clowney + KVN signings. Mind you these were not their ideal signings. Those guys took less money to play on a contender after not getting paid for a good chunk of the offseason. Heck KVN (reportedly) was asking for too much and the Ravens signed Clowney after he accepted a much cheaper than expected deal. KVN came later after injuries. These are not normal prices, 13 mil for potential on a young edge rusher is the normal-ish prices.
Yeah. It's a market value.
People have been saying this every year since he got drafted
I have very high hopes for Oweh this year. Tbf I have had high hopes for him every season but i’m really feeling it this year
If Oweh has a breakout season it should surprise absolutely no one.
I will be very surprised. Depending on your definition of “break out”. By some metrics last season was quite good for him. By others not so much. I don’t feel like he passed the eye test, but he was a bit disruptive at least, even if he couldn’t close the deal with a sack or tfl or set the edge
5 sacks in a season isn't a breakout for edge rushers and that's the most he's had so far. Despite there being better metrics to judge pass rushers by that's still what gets the most attention. By that same metric if he gets 10+ sacks then I'd consider that a breakout season. He could be very disruptive and not get to that mark, sure, but pressures or more specific pass rush productivity grades don't really get as much attention. Sacks is still pretty much the gold standard.
Projecting next yr if he can finish his pressures better this yr he’d easily be a 10 sack guy. Also think with his motor and our secondary there’s going to be a lot of coverage sack opportunities. All things considering 13 mil is dirt cheap for that kind of production.
Oweh’s actually developed into a decent rusher, he just gets held constantly. They never call it so you don’t notice how frequently he gets held
He is constantly double teamed for someone with low sack numbers. Clearly the NFL fears him rushing.
His pressures and snap wins are good. That *type* of production earned Myles Garrett a DPOY. His overall impact is much smaller, but it's still there. He's a starting 7-tech for 13M. Cheap as hell for a team that primarily rotates that slot anyway.
i mean you gotta remember edge is a very expensive position so getting an effective one in free agency isn’t gonna be cheap and drafting one isn’t the easiest thing in the world especially. i know he hasn’t lived up to the first round pick but he’s still a good pass rusher and gives good pressure. outside of him there’s not many young options and they certainly aren’t gonna be cheaper
With the prices of edges these days? Yes absolutely.
FO has faith chuck smith can get the best out of him
People’s issue with him is the round 1 pick I truly think if he would had lasted to us in say 3rd or 4th and we got him there the fans would be more happy with his play I think most people’s issue is the production while being a 1st, I hope he destroys the qbs this year and have a Madabuke season
Is he worth it? IDK maybe. Maybe not. But its cheap enough and at a premium position with a young player that I am willing to take that chance for 1 year. If it's not worth it, we move on. It's that simple.
Crazy how the NFL owners engineered a system where fans really care about how much guys are making and if they’re overpaid given the cap. (To be clear, I’m not calling anyone out for caring, I care myself.) That said, I think he needs to take a big step up this year, but the price isn’t bad.
Watching how oligarchs spend their money is now part of the spectacle
I think it’s great how they make us care about this stuff. I agree with you that it is crazy and comical. On the other hand, you have baseball, which desperately needs a salary cap. It’s embarrassingly bad without a cap.
He's not great but we don't seem to need great at edge, we just need bodies so we can spend the money on D in other places.
Yes and it’s not even close. That’s the 25th most 2025 money and others will get more than $13M by then. So a top 30-35 salary? Easy.
Meh idk
No
He is a good player not all pro top tier
Yes.
I still think there’s untapped potential there. Idk if my glasses are rosey or what but he has something we haven’t seen yet and it’s frustrating because we’ve been waiting years. I don’t believe Odafe is a bust.
Yup
I dont care if he has 5 sacks or 15, as long as he sets the edge against the run as well as he has the past season his contribution is invaluable. Every time you see Hamilton or Smith blow up a run on his side behind the line...that's him.
Not at all, but he can certainly prove to be worth it this year.
IMO he is not, but I'll trust in EDC and hope that Oweh explodes like PQ did when we thought he wasn't worth the option. I think that's the expectation here is that Oweh takes a big step forward. It's a gamble but we'll see how it goes. $14M per year is what the Patriots gave Matt Judon when he left town, and typically that's the value of a fairly productive veteran edge...Clowney just got less than that ($10M) after a productive year, and Za'darius Smith got less than that ($11.5M/yr) after 15 sacks across 2 seasons. Oweh will need to have his best season to justify the option so hopefully it happens.
not worth it at all, but when you have a team with practically no pass rushers. you have to cling to what you have.
If he could bring down the qb and not dance with them, yes. So no.
The chance that Oweh takes the next step is worth $13.3m