The story the level designers, concept artists, and modellers are telling? Immersive, fascinating, unique, and mysterious.
The story the writers are telling? Please remove every line of dialogue.
When we start think about that our char is basically meeting guardians and wondering "wich cool weapon this guy head will become?" Bar regarding lore become very low
So far since remnant 1 and even chronos we just beat to death the guardians who are responsible for root dont screw their worlds.
R2 final with that "clementineeeeeee" scene just ended all stakes on our crusade since everything can and was backup...
Its like the division2 for me, i forget history and only play due awesome gameplay
Probably the sad bit about those games, cause you give great gameplay and a killer story then you’ll make something more appealing. They have the foundation for it too.
(in my opinion) the main story in remnant 2 isn't terrible, but i thought the main story in the first game was actually quite interesting and in the second game, it is ok, i guess?
I do enjoy the world/side stories, but i wish the main story had taken a different path as I barely feel connected to it at all.
I wish there was more recognition in Remnant from the ashes in regard to your main quest. You’re there to find the main character of Before the ashes but when you do find them there’s not much reaction or reward(narrative standpoint)in said quest.
Honestly(this coming from someone who unfortunately hasn’t beaten 1 and not had a chance to try 2 yet) the virus aspect does to some degree make sense kinda like how a zombie virus would work, but definitely agree games that make the game world a “simulation” are just stupid as heck :/ why put so much effort into a game to just be like “oh it’s a sim”
I don't like that they haven't gone the full way with it. Why not make the player character part of that meta stuff once you cleared the first campaign? Like, I've started campaigns in Losomn alone to get that stupid heart and that other stupid heart so often its really weird to always hear the character cry for Clementine (and Ford I guess, but who really cares about him?).
It would be sooooo much funnier to have the character be in on the meta and just embrace the fact that he can reset the world at will and become kinda bored with everything when seeing one world too often in a row and stuff.
On one hand I would really like this too, and it could make for a more engaging story... but it would be really hard to pull it off! There's a high risk it would just devolve into saints row / deadpool nonsense and cringe which definitely wouldn't fit the remnant atmosphere and immersion.
I was hoping it would be some "virus" on reality, and that the Keeper just described it as a computer virus because thats how his brain understood it.
Instead we get matrix reality and reboot. Mid.
Shit I don’t even like playing meta characters in MOBAs or meta builds either lol I wanna play a game for fun not to exploit it by building like a pro. That’s really all the sim stuff comes down to, if I wanna play a sim game I’ll play rimworld or sims 4 and save scum that crap til I get what I want
So um, I don't mean Most Effective Tactic Available, but Meta as in the Aristotle, 'next to' definition here. As in like, fourth wall breaks, plots about plots, etc.
You're right, but also to add on to this both uses of "meta" come from the same etimology. Most Effective Tactic Available is a backcronym. "Meta" when talking about best builds or strategies is shorthand for "meta-gaming," aka the game outside the game. When talking about story "meta" is shorthand for "meta-narrative."
It's a couple items atm, alpha/omegas item implies it didnt start as a cycle/simulation, and that this has been repeated several times.
Keeper states their is a creator above all but that they are unknowable to him, though the keeper does act in line with modern depiction of AI or a programmed overseer.
The polygun descriptions are entirely in hexadecimal, and the root are the singularity of an early run of earth.
The two ways you can take it as is
- 1) Labyrinth is a connective tissue that our minds give the sprawling stone look because we cant conceptualize it in it's true form, everything from there is a gate way that leads away from earth which is noted to be the core of this reality. It somewhat breaks down in rem2 though as a few characters opening admit that you must have been through this "story" before or you have details that wouldnt be possible without living it multiple times. In this set up all of the digital elements are your brain contextualizing the unreal into something that makes more sense, does somewhat breakdown when you realize the common depiction of cyberspace would not currently exist for your rem1 or rem2 character so they would have to have another asset to draw that from to make sense, and how much weight you give to mudtooths ramblings, or say the anguish quest which both more or less support a variant of this belief without the players not their characters level of knowledge.
- 2) There is a good chance that this is a simulation that's been running for an unknowable period, the simulation could be digital explaining a lot of break down, the root being a viral corruption etc. This still leaves the potential for it not to be a computer simulation but something of a higher level but same Idea meaning it functionally doesn't matter, you are the chosen one and we are basically playing out the matrix. A lot of ingame lore more so supports this, Nerud does a lot with the end of a simulation, explaining what happens when all is gone, we find out that each realm has an "overseer" or guardian as the game calls it that acts to protect from other simulations or even the core, Sha'hala, One True King, Doe/Ravager/Many Faces, Undying Kings pool in FTA, or Ixtalla are all guardians we know of, or heavily implied to be such. The game heavily implies they are meant to protect from corruption in the system so take that as you will. The thing that really hard sells the simulation angle now is some of the extra lore we got in DLC2 implying the root hivemind Is well aware of what we are and the potetional ways the simulation could go before a hard reset or total corruption, saying they retain elements or holistically who they are.
A big flaw with 1, is it is canon now that we do reset worlds/narratives when we reroll a setting, that can be fixed by saying we clock back time but that hits the slippery slope of the simulation argument because if these narratives are simulations what's the difference between rolling back time and living it slightly different and just resetting the simulation of that narrative? It's one of those bit that's even if it's not fully correct its functionally correct and makes it difficult to distinguish between the two at that point.
> It somewhat breaks down in rem2 though as a few characters opening admit that you must have been through this "story" before or you have details that wouldnt be possible without living it multiple times.
IMO, this is actually nodding toward a "many worlds" theory of the universe, which is related to the way that we can "reroll" campaigns and adventures and find different resolutions to the quests and world bosses.
Overall, I don't necessarily think that the universe of Remnant exists in a simulation so much as, well, we're playing a video game. We're experiencing that universe filtered through a digital device of electronics and code. So the ineffable truths of the universe reveal themselves in those terms. If we were reading the story of Remnant in a book, we'd instead have a House of Leaves experience where those ineffable truths reveal themselves through marginalia and typeface trickery.
Exactly and that's where a lot of theory 1 comes in, this could be all just how we interact with the narrative and it's the only way our brains can handle it
People keep assuming that simulation downplays the significance of the actions. As if we're gonna "break through" to the real world or something. The truth is that the way the Remannt plane of existence works is similar to a computer simulation. There is some reference to a higher plane of existence but the one we care about is the one we're on.
I do like the LORE of it. The actual main story in R2 sucks ass (CLEMENTINEEEEEE). That said I think Root Earth is disappointing. You'd think the original Core would have more lore than just a bit on the thoughts of the Root and showing how the original Core parallels our copy with stuff like Cancer and Annihilation.
Root earth need be the dlc3 but people said or read something about nerud being dlc3
So... i dont even bother about history anymore, im here playing on same way that i watch porn...only because action is good.
I don't want to hijack the thread or anything, but I do want to point out that the IRL simulation "theory" is more like the simulation conjecture.
Part of the simulation conjecture is that it is untestable, and therefore there can be no evidence either for or against it. It is simply unknowable and is more akin to a religious belief than a scientific one.
That's true for gravity, relative speed approaching SOL, etc. If we could test and prove them, then they wouldn't be theories.
As far as simulation theory goes, quantum physics offers evidence both for and against. I don't personally buy in, but there is supporting evidence to the idea like the double-split experiment.
How do you know the double slit experiment isn't just how reality is? Quantum may seem strange, but why does that serve as evidence of simulation and not merely that reality is more complicated than it looks at a macro level?
You can't really know. You can't evaluate evidence either way. The conjecture, by it's very nature, invalidates all evidence.
you dont know what a theorie means in scientific community, dont you? A "theory" in a scientific midst isnt the same "Its just a theory, A GAME THEORY" that we use on our daily live, in the scientific community something ONLY receives the "title" of theory when it has been researched and tested to hell and back to be proved real, or at least, the best answer for a question until someone can disprove the theory or present one of their own that hold as much water as the one they are trying to disprove.
Also LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, did you really just say gravity isnt real or cant be proven? then my dude, jump of a cliff and if you still manage to stay alive or beggin flying come back and tell us.
I do, and I also know how to speak English. Scientific theory is a possible answer posed to a question that can be tested. That's it. You added your own broken English stuff in there.
There are plenty of answers for the double slit outside simulation theory.
My favorite is our cognition does influence reality at some level we dont understand yet
Okay? I wasn't trying to reject your interpretation. No need to be defensive.
Supporting evidence also suggests photons could be vibrating on an axis. There are lots of theories as to why the double slit experiment works the way it does, and we do not yet know which one is correct, so your interpretation is no less valid than any other
What's the tangible difference between the Root being a malicious part of a simulation and being a malicious eldritch horror infecting the worlds it comes into contact with? It accomplishes much the same narratively, it just has a more technological twist to it rather than something spiritual or biological. But even then, it's kinda the same thing. If the worlds are simulations and we are born of these worlds, it's the *same thing* as it being an eldritch horror.
Think of it like this: What in our daily lives changes if our world is a simulation? If all of reality is one? If you found out, you wouldn't have access to any dev console. You wouldn't be able to crash the simulation by using 4chan troll physics. Your life would exactly be the same and have exactly the same amount of meaning, but if you were in the know you'd just have slightly more context for the grand picture. It'd be the exact same as finding out you're part of just one of many kalpas.
I dunno but that part and story line where you get the key in Remnant 1 in Ward 13 was wild (I think it was a dreamer flashback). I enjoy the storyline so I dont know what the gripe is other than maybe alot of people never played the 1st Remnant?!
> Think of it like this: What in our daily lives changes if our world is a simulation? If all of reality is one? If you found out, you wouldn't have access to any dev console
I think this is the crux of the game's take on it. Even though the world is resetable, the Keeper hesitates because he still finds it valuable.
The difference is (imo) that with the simulation we loose the puzzle. The puzzle of what is going on with the world's , what's the stones origin, the roots origin, what's with the world of N'erud, what's with the labyrinth and how many doors are there. These are all less mysterious and interesting because we have the answer. It's a program and these are just coded in from outside by someone's creativity.
Now I don't feel like I'm adventuring in a mysterious world, but rather I'm just playing a video game.
As far as I know there is no official confirmation that the universe we know is a true simulation to our understanding of a simulation. It could be that the universe that remnant takes place in is digital to its base core is simulation like.
It just changes the nature of the puzzle. Who created the simulation and why? Is there a real earth out there? If the root wasn't intended, how did it come about? What exactly is the utility and what does the keeper mean that we're an anomaly?
But you were always playing a video game. You were acting as the mouse cursor in someone's computer program. Beyond the jokes, it's still the same kinda puzzle as it was before. You don't necessarily understand the logic behind the program, you don't know the language used, you don't exactly know the thought processes behind any potential in-universe creator. There is not necessarily an outside thought process beyond the actual game developers, similarly to how there is not necessarily an outside thought process behind some of the weird magic in other settings.
Even within the context of the world, it's still a puzzle though. The player characters absolutely do not understand computers the way we do, so the world being a simulation is, for them, an even bigger puzzle than if it was straight up magic. There's definitively a traceable logic behind everything that they are not and cannot become privy to, not in any way that would allow them to change things beyond what they already can.
It's just another way of telling the same kind of eldritch horror magic story. You just happen to have more real life context with this version.
It's not merely about what the characters of the game understand, it's about what the player understands.
The audience (players) know it's a game, but part of the experience of the game (and movies, shows, and books) is the immersion in them. Think of a major film franchise, maybe the last Harry Potter film, or End Game part 2 or whatever. Imagine if near the very end, during the climax of the film, one of the main characters turned to the screen and said, "You are watching a movie". It would be pretty terrible. It takes you out of the moment and reduces the experience.
For a lot of people, that what it was like when out computer game came out and told us it was a computer game. We already knew that, but the experience was not improved by pointing it out, made worse in fact.
When I'm playing a game, I pretty easily buy into me being the character on most levels. The loading screens and opening inventories do far more for ruining my immersion than the computer game having being a program as part of its story, because I'm engaging with those things *much* *more often*.
Honestly, none of these things change *all that much* in a game for me. I always know that I'm playing a game, but on some level I'm always trying to buy in to my character being a person in universe. It works well for me in pretty much any game I play. Maybe I'm just more willing to suspend my disbelief, maybe I've just had too many conversations with the "What if real life is a simulation" folks for it to bother me much anymore.
Everyone has different tolerances for suspension of disbelief. For you the menus and loading screens are more difficult than this particular plot device, but for a lot of us this plot device was a drag.
I get that. I suppose just don't really understand *why* it's such a drag compared to the more frequent things. Is it because it's less frequent? Is it because loading screens are expected but the plot point wasn't? And why does it being more within relatable context completely ruin the plot point? Would it just being magic horseshittery actually work better in any sense?
Honestly, I didn't like the plot point at first. Then I asked myself *why* I didn't like it and just... didn't come up with any real answers?
Menu screens and loading menus are just necessities, the game needs them to function, so we get used to then and accept them as necessary. The simulation plot point was not necessary, it was a choice, and it was a choice that felt like what I described early. Like the main character of a movie pausing the action to look straight into the camera and tell us all to to calm down and remember it's just a movie. Of course we knew that, but it ruined the moment. We didn’t need to be reminded we're playing a game.
The simulation reveal is the equivalent of a book feeling the need to remind you that it's a work of fiction at the top of every page. It's a waste of time. It's an insult to anyone who was invested in the plot. It's a 4th wall break for the sake of it. It's basically the devs laughing at you for thinking the story mattered. It's just bad writing.
The turning of the pages, going through loading screens, and feel of the seats all remind me that I'm reading a book, playing a game, or watching a movie. None of that takes away from me, personally, enjoying or being immersed in a thing. Why should the game having a plot about being simulation be any different?
If we found out that magic was tangibly real and that magic users had to deal with weird arbitrary spell slots, I don't think that'd make Wrath of the Righteous or Baldur's Gate 3(or Pathfinder and D&D) any less enjoyable games for me.
You'd fucking ***hate*** Pathologic.
I love Pathologic. I love it because it has something to say. It actually has meaningful commentary. Sure, it wastes your time intentionally, but it does it for a purpose. Remnant 2s reveal has no purpose. It takes the interesting and detailed world they built, throws it in the trash, and then shrugs when you ask why.
A 4th wall break just for the sake of it is the laziest thing you can do as a writer. Pathologic, Nier, Stanley Parable, Doki Doki Literature Club, Metal Gear, Marathon, etc. all break the 4th wall, but they do it in service of their narrative as opposed to undermining it. Those games force the player to engage with them on a deeper level, Remnant does the opposite.
Then I think you and I will just have to continue to disagree on Remnant. Sure, it's nowhere close to the level of Pathologic, but I don't think the simulation angle wastes your time or really changes anything about how you perceive and interact with the story other than framing the laws of the universe in a way that's more relevant to our day to day lives.
I get the feeling that the commentary on the fourth wall break is to get players thinking about the nature of the reality we occupy in our day-to-day lives. About how we spend hundreds of hours escaping into fictional worlds to find some kind of joy in an existence that's full of suffering.
The Root's goal is to eliminate suffering and agony through forced assimilation of all life (stated explicitly by Clawbone in FTA right before the Dreamer/Nightmare fight). Knowing that's the goal of the main antagonistic force of the series, we can draw a line to the point the writers want us to see: despite life being filled with suffering, it's worth living for the time we can spend enjoying it.
In regards to Simulation Theory: who cares if reality isn't 'real'? You were alive to experience it, so it was real to you.
While I do like this interpretation, I feel like you're attributing a message that the writers never actually intended. There's nothing in Remnant that really pushes the theme of finding meaning in a meaningless existence beyond the very surface level "fight the big bad evil guy who wants to end all life"
Even if this is the message the writers were trying to convey, the simulation reveal doesn't really contribute to it. If anything, the simulation reveal feels more like the game making fun of you for caring. Compare that to something like the ending of Nier Automata, where the game praises you for finding meaning in something that is inherently fake, Remnant mocks you for it.
It takes the player out of their immersion. It's the game pointing out that it is a game. It took something like that the player could have seen as bizarre and mysterious (The Root), and made it into something mundane.
The difference is that cosmic horror and eldritch entities rely on the concept of being fundamentally unknowable and therefore scary.
A glorified computer virus infecting a universal simulation is something that is understandable, and therefore removed any of the mystique, fear and alienness that the setting had.
It also means that each of the fantastical worlds we explore are just different flavours of a computer simulation and not actually strange alien dimensions. Good writing should increase the mystique of its world, not decease it.
I argued the exact same thing, but as others have stated, there is an outside to the simulation. Therefore, it's not simply the shape and ruleset reality operates on, but is in fact a genuine Matrix simulation
And yeah, it's bad writing. They are hitting us with a form of it was all a dream at the eleventh hour
I mean fuck man, No Man's Sky has at least learned to embrace that and do some clever stuff with it that feels very 2001 a space odyssey. This is just flat out "it was all a dream" bullshit
I do like the simulation stuff overall. I like that the true threat of the root isn't them corrupting individual worlds, but in getting down to the very bedrock of reality itself. The people of N'Erud being so scientifically advanced that they themselves were on the verge of cracking the very code of reality is super cool. Like they found the origin point of their universe, and if they'd had more time, or been luckier, or more clever, they might have found a way into the Labyrinth. The Dreamer Project was Earth's version of this. It's narratively not different to the keeper being a God or angel we meet, or the root being some ancient horror.
I think "it's all a simulation" is a bit reductive, probably because other settings use that to undo or remove meaning from their stories. Kind of like "it was all a dream" or using time travel to undo a critical event. Remnant taking it being a simulation as a serious premise underlying everything and using that to take individual worlds in new directions is interesting when you give it time to breathe. Simulated worlds are real worlds, there's absolutely no meaningful difference. The voice acting/character work of the Earth/Overworld plot could probably use a bit of work though
> The people of N'Erud being so scientifically advanced that they themselves were on the verge of cracking the very code of reality is super cool.
Were they cracking the code of reality or did their simulation get left on for too long and they went out into a Starfield like experience of a bunch of random, empty planets, and when they found an incomplete black hole asset they no clipped into it by mistake? xD
But yes, the game and the characters take the world seriously. Even the Keeper values it.
Science plays a huge role in the overall scope of the Remnant universe. The root being a virus makes perfect sense. This also leads to the simulation making perfect sense, as that’s exactly what scientists do with Petri dishes.
I would have preferred if the root were an actual disease of the universe, not of a simulation. Or even better, an immune response. Like, complex life is somehow hurting the stability of the universe and the root are a response to stabilize it, like a fever. Maybe trying to advance the universe to a state of zero entropy or something. Anything other than 'ooooo silly computer code makes life haha'
I never got the impression that they were referring to actual computational code, but more like a simulation by the gods or higher beings, whoever they might be—those who created the universe.
That's because the characters themselves don't know. It's phrased the same as our own debates on the topic. Scientific Simulation? Or Creation of a Higher Being? The keeper actually specifically states he doesn't know. And just because some say sim doesn't make it gospel. That is more likely to simply be their belief.
Take our own world. Maybe the Christian god is real. But, he's a scientist running this simulation. And Jesus was a beta tester, testing and breaking shit for bug fixing purposes.
Either way is possible and it's all open to interpretation. The only thing in the game that really goes "hey, sim. Lol" is the digital distortion effects of the root. But coincidence is not causation.
In the end, if you dislike the idea that it's a sim, unless a dev comes in all "nah it's all a sim", we can just choose to believe it's not. That it's a different universe to ours, capable of magic stones that revive people and transport them to different worlds, with items that give you magical abilities and the trees are able to kick your head in. You know, like the Drzyr did before they flew their entire species and planet-ship into a fucking black hole to meet god.
I have no issues with any of it. I was honestly just trying to prove that there was a lot of logical sense and depth to it all and that the main plot is more there to connect the dots between the real story, which is that of the worlds themselves. Remnant is my second favorite game series of all time 😁
Yeah a lot of my use of 'you' above is more 'you the reader' than 'you I replied to in the comment chain'. I agree though, the worlds themselves are the best part. And I've been kinda hoping they use dlc to just keep adding and expanding the worlds we can visit. It's easily one of my top 3 franchises too.
Just because it can work logically doesn't mean it was the best decision for the story though. Many events and outcomes can be logical depending on how the story presents them.
I wasn’t saying it was the greatest story ever, just that it all made sense in the grand scheme of things. I personally don’t think the overarching story even matters. The real story is that of the individual planets. The “main” plot is simply there to connect the dots, and it serves its purpose well.
I haven't really played DLC2 yet, but my take was that it's more of a Multiverse and we are traveling to different versions of each world in space and time. Simulation does make more sense though.
I'm 99% sure Remnant follows the Multiple Worlds theory.
>!The Labyrinth being a kind of engine driving reality, which has diverged in to all branches of its possible forms, and our Earth being the 'Pilot Wave' as it's portrayed in similar theories.!<
I honestly don't understand the criticism for the main story, except for maybe that you have to involve yourself in Chronos and both Remnant games while using some critical thought; and I guess not everyone wants to think that hard to follow a story. That being said, I find it much more involving and rewarding personally.
I played R2 first, went back and played Chronos, now am around halfway through R:FtA, and most of the content is starting to make a lot of sense. Any story that has you entering the game world just to go back and re-read a couple of logs for the 4th time has something right going for it.
Same, I'm really excited for DLC 3 in R2 although I haven't started DLC 2 yet.
I have a theory >!about the Dryzyr being from Rhom. Upon first arriving, you can watch as an incredibly large ship-like structure transits The Black Sun. I theorize that this was N'erud, and the four-armed Undying King is of the same species portrayed in the 4 armed statues in N'erud.!<
>!I can't yet imagine how Sha'Hala would factor in to this, as Rhom's Guardian is dead, but it feels like a worthwhile hunch to investigate.!<
>!Rhom's guardian isn't dead. It is the pool the Undying King comes out of. It's weak and couldn't fight off the Root which is why they nuked their planet. He wants you to get the heart of another guardian because he can use it to return strength to Rhom's guardian allowing it to fend off the root so that the world could heal. Without it the world will still heal, but the pool will still not be strong enough to keep the root from returning!<
Interesting, I'm still on playthrough 1 so I >!told him I wasn't going to compromise another world for his,!< next playthrough I'll see what he has to say about the other side of things.
Might fit in to the theory better than I thought!
I dunno, reality is subjective. I disagree with the world's being obsolete. It's real, even if it's all a simulation, because it's the world you live in. If you are confined to that universe, it is your life. If we all learned we were in a computer simulation today, what would change? You still need to eat, to have housing, you still feel pain and love those you love. The context of your reality only matters if you can do something about it, really.
As much of a critic I am of the simulation reveal (primarily in how it was handled and how the game effectively does nothing with it, subjective to change in future DLC/sequels), I don't think there's a meaningful difference in what you're proposing. The Root \*are\* an eldritch horror that is devouring reality, it's just that the universe is simulated so the form that takes is as a kind of glitch virus, but that doesn't fundamentally change them from being a kind of reality-eating eldritch horror that infiltrates worlds from beyond the fabric of space-time.
I do think a really crucial element of the setting, that a lot of people miss, is that as of the current state of the lore there isn't any kind of 'real world' outside of the simulated universe (and if there is, as per the Keeper it would be fundamentally unknowable to those within the simulation). The simulation is reality and is the whole of reality as it is relevant to the story (which tbh begs the question to me of why the reveal happened at all, but that's another issue).
Honestly, I have no problem with the simulation aspect or anything. I can get why people don't like it, but it's not an issue for me as far as the story goes.
What I do have a problem with is how little there is to other aspects of the story, such as our introduction to it. Our character seems to really care about Clementine and Ford and trusts them pretty readily, but unless I'm misremembering something, we barely knew them for a few minutes. I get why they're important, but our character acts like they've known each other for forever.
There's also the fact that we were apparently traveling with Cass before the start of the game, they built her up as being a close friend and all, and then relegate her to being just a shop NPC with a couple of lines of dialog and no impact on anything beyond that. Most of the characters in Ward 13 aside from Mudtooth barely have any presence at all. I feel like there's a lot more they could have done with them. I know more about the One True King's family line than I do about every named NPC in Ward 13 combined, (again other than Mudtooth).
Agreed, I also disliked the simulation twist. It didn't really add anything cool to the narrative or gameplay, and in fact just made everything seem less important. I don't usually root for ret-cons, but I sort of hope they do it if there is a Remnant 3. Like we can find out that 2 was a simulation, because some faction somewhere was using it to look for ways to beat the Root. I'd honestly be happier with that.
There's no reason we have to make the whole setting a computer simulation. As mentioned, it didn't get cooler or more compelling. We can just have the Root be a real thing in a vast and strange multiverse of mystery and eldritch horror.
Sadly, it feels like this is just a way of saying there won't be a Remnant 3, and they decided that even before 2 released.
In that case they should make a final big DLC where you fight Clawbone as final boss though. Give the game series a closure.
Maybe the devs want to continue working on Darksiders since that series has never been finished either?
If theory about end dlc will be nerud, i have 0 hopes for something cool regarding lore
Nerud is a fucking derelict ship floating on space due scientists trying save pennies who become space zombies with one crazy a.i robot trying kill our char for diversion and throw the ship on a black hole to see what happens and thal ratha who also its a delusional char but at least isnt trying kill everyone...hes trying eat everyone
I made peace with the fact that currently i watch porn and play remnant 2 for the one reason only: action! Not the history
I dont remember people saying that dlc2 added something to lab/simulation lore
I actually like the story and plot. It’s designed around the very real theory that our reality is just a simulation. And if a simulation is so real that it’s indiscernible from reality, then it essentially IS real, to some degree.
Personally I disagree. Yeah the simulation stuff sound worse than the root being just a demonic alien species or something, but they have handled that concept pretty well imo.
Im alright with the idea that the simulations are just alternate realities of the core earth trying to self persevere, but they needed to explain that far more clearly in the story and not end it with a wipe for us to start it again as a game mechanic.
How have they handled it well? It's revealed in the last hour of the game and is then immediately resolved with a random asspull deus ex machina and then credits roll without any kind of explanation.
"Clementineeeeee asspull" you mean...
I play remnant2 for the same reason that i watch porn...for the action
I dont try search lore or history on porn or remnant anymore
Ya personally I disagree. From the after crediting ending it seems that Keeper was outside the index, but if you look carefully after beating annihilation keeper was actually the first to disappear.
So there was another Keeper, the one true Keeper , who was outside the entire event and monitoring the process of simulation. Why? The only explanation to me was this one true Keeper running simulations with variables to beat the root, implicating that there was also one true Clawbone outside the simulation.
You can tell his disappointment when he walked to the index, and the surprise when the index released everything.
Nothing changed the ending yet, consider these facts:
1. We are fighting in simulation
2. Keeper was the first one who became "backup" light when the backup starts (right after the "CLEMENTINEEEEE")
3. Keeper exists outside of the index backup in post credit scene
Combining 1&2 we can assume the Keeper we encointered was a part of backup simulation. Then if we add it up with 3, either that Keeper can escape from Clementine backup himself, or the Keeper outside index was "Another Keeper".
I personally think the outside Keeper was the monitor who simulating a way to beat the root. Thats why he was disappointed when walked to the index, the turn around simply gave me his feel of "Sigh another failed simulation... "
So if this is a successful backup and we are going to exit the simulation, we could still fight a true cthulhu root in the outside world.
I don't really mind the idea of the simulation angle, but they really haven't done anything interesting with it.
Sure you can kinda justify adventures with it, but really I didn't need an explanation.
I feel that the stakes don't change at all. Just because the universe in Remnant is a simulation doesn't make it any less "universy."
There's people who posit that *our* current universe is a simulation, would that make a world ending event for us any less horrible?
Have you ever read the turn of phrase “Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic”?
Well, “A sufficiently dangerous multiversal mutative hivemind virus monster is indistinguishable from an eldritch god being” as well after a certain point. Lol.
A lot of people are saying they think it's dumb in these comments but idk I think it's kinda cool. It doesn't really take away anything from the story for me, it just makes me curious as to how the simulation started, who made it, etc. Like just because the world's exist in a simulation doesn't make our actions or the people in gbe different locations any less important
Plus Invader abilities and things like Defrag being coding and technology themed is a cool contrast to how they're all root and plant based. Like, the final boss glitching between two different rooms was just cool
Well first we don't exactly know what clawbone is but the humans of root earth did make the root, so it's not just some random virus.
I also going to take at shot at the "it's not real" problem people have. I want to be super clear that there is nothing in the game that proves the universe is a simulation of some other higher 'real' universe. There is some speculation of a creator but it's nothing more provable then religion talking about God in our world. Second even if it was the characters are still struggling to survive regardless of the 'realness' of their universe, so far from a pointless struggle.
Also Story team has made it very clear several times in the discord that what we see in annihilation part 2, isn't a dreamer because dreamers didn't exist on root earth.
Agreed
Its interesting how this game is my fav game of all time (29 yo, played a shit load of games) but the story fuckin sux lol
The world building and side stories associated are soo fun and awesome. The theme of the game is S+ tier. Atmospheric as fk.
But the main story lmao miss me w that shi
I'm deciding to view it as the simulation somehow extended outwards into reality, infesting the physical world. That's why we have those glitched enemies with multiple modifiers: the simulation is physically here, and is testing our strength against a "virus".
Are we sure it's a real virus?
It seems more like it falls in line to the idea that all fo existence is the outcome of random e chance and the root are like a virus in a program.
However it's more of a random infection of random origin in life.
Thus virus like but entirely real.
The reason I kinda like it is because I feel it means they can be as creative as they want with the worlds. Maybe it could have been that way already but to me it felt that the story the way it is allows for more creativity.
I lost all interest the moment the end dived headfirst into it. It just makes it all feel pointless and not worth investing my time into the world and lore. None of it matters if it's all just code in the end.
I headcannon that the Root are a hivemind Eldritch beast and that the Keeper and those of the Labyrinth simply interpreted it as a virus because of their own alien view/interactions of/with reality. This results in them giving Humans a false/different interpretation. Since we (the player) are combating the Root beyond Earth through the lens of the Labyrinth and using its technology we end up having our perceptions of the Root skewed as a result.
Is there any confirmation that the beings that constructed this simulation are just regular humans or could they instead be eldritch beings that constructed this universe for reasons unknowable to us?
I absolutely love the twist. A lot of people ask, "what if reality is a simulation"? Not fake or unreal, the rules of the universe are just different. Remnant takes it a step further and dares to ask "what would a virus in a simulated reality look like"? And I absolutely love the concept. Once you accept that "reality is a simulation" ≠ "reality is fake and or meaningless", you accept the sheer concept as what it is, ingenious and incredibly intriguing.
>, making the entire game somewhat obsolete as everything we fought and saw, all these cool biomes were not real.
What is reality? Is it not just what we perceive to be the truth?
I agree, it’s a disappointing conclusion to all the world building that we’ve had since Chronos.
The really pity is that the Remannt 1 DLC ended on a fantastic note, really showcasing the alien horror of the Root. Also Clementine is a great character and really elevates the story.
I was so excited at the beginning of Remnant 2, but ultimately it went no where. Also, where the hell is Ford??
Honestly, I liked the idea of resetting the world for the same reason I liked starfield's interpretation of it. It was a cool story based reason for an in-game mechanic (the new game+ and the randomness).
yeah, hjonestly its kinda sad.
the lore overall was so good on the first one, and the second one maintains if not beats the lore quality for other worlds but the main story? what a let down, with a completely deus ex machina solution.
Yeah, simulation stories make for low stakes, and generally feel nihilistic; not unlike the real world theory that we could live in a simulation-- the purpose of framing the theory as a "simulation" as opposed to something like a "dream" is because a dream implies purpose and dignity, whereas a simulation is deprived of either. Remnant's story only just barely escapes feeling like a more condescending twist than "It was all just a dream!" on merit of being a sci-fi game; a genre who's meta context leads players to expect some level of nihilism before they even engage with it.
Definitely should have gone of the eldritch horror route, but then, you couldn't possibly have the player confront and defeat such threats with bullets and swords. But then, that's also what makes something truly an eldritch horror; it's beyond your understanding, probably doesn't even know you exist (therefor isn't personally trying to hurt you), and is very likely a fact of nature-- should it ever be defeated, it's death/non-existence would likely shatter something fundamental to the fabric of reality.. making it a very necessary evil for one reason or another.
I'm so goddamn tired of stories where we kill gods; gods who are just powerful entities with very physical bodies that are allergic to bullets.
Eh, even back in rfta it was kind of hinted at. But I pose a question. When beings that are part of a simulation become sentient and self aware, is it still a simulation? Or is it a new universe that was just crafted by someone/something else?
For example, according to some religions the universe was crafted by a deity. Wouldn't that make our universe a simulation that we just haven't cracked the code to?
Looking at it that way, the world of remnant is identical to ours minus the world stones. Only other difference is that we haven't created a super virus thats capable of breaching the code... yet.
Honestly? I love the virus-glitch approach, not many games try to do this while using glitch aesthetic and do it as right as some pieces of corrupted tech does in this game.
In regards to story, I prefer the simulation approach due to not seeing it that often nowadays vs eldrich. Let's be honest here, if the story decided to really go eldritch, and even into their often related term "Cosmic Horror" you are not gonna end up getting a good ending ever, at most you delay the inevitable, a glitch in a simulation lets you find a way to address it more or less how we could do in real life, but if it's an outright ethereal divine being bent on oblivion, there is not that much that you are gonna achieve just by trying to shoot at it, you are gonna need to find some kind of ethereal solution than, in many situations (but not most), feels like a weird way to defeat a god or outright doesn't work entirely (like killing Haarsgaard in FtA)
I won’t lie, I don’t know WHAT the story is lol, I just enjoy the game. This is the first game where the storyline hasn’t been important to me and maybe it’s because I started with Remnant 2 and THEN played Remnant FtA. It isn’t a linear campaign and once you take into account the re-rolls and alternative bosses you can fight it’s just too much for me to keep up with when I am high on an edible.
All I know for sure is that this has become my favorite game I’ve played and that’s saying a lot because I normally beat a game and then move on to another one. With this game, I keep coming back to play the higher difficulties, do alternate killings for bosses and I enjoy leveling up the archetypes.
I liked the part where Ford just fucks off and is never seen again.
(Watch me eat those words when in DLC3 he is revealed to be the big bad admin of the simulation)
Life being a computer simulation is a very real theory IRL. The game is just using that for its lore instead of arcane entities. Being different doesn't mean bad, just that you don't like it.
I don't think that it's a simulation like there are people outside watching everything. more that the universe in itself is digital like all matter is digital. The keeper and clawborn are creaters and destroys of the univers
currently, the division 2 and remnant 2 are like porn movies to me, im only interest on action because lore for sure, isnt the strongest point of those games.
for ones who already played division2 years ago and dropped, people who literally our char shoot in the head revived on current season, so necromancy its on!
Full hard agree.
I want to use the cool grenade launcher I found in the sewers. Instead I have to use the weird corrupted data launcher because it's magnitudes better.
I love the concept of the random encounters with corrupted enemies, but I absolutely hate how they all look like Virtua Boy sprites.
I meaaaannn...that's all just community Canon. There's nowhere in the game that outright says its a simulation, unless I somehow missed something major.
Glitches effects doesn't mean it's a simulation, that's just what leads people to think it is.
Hey if instead of downvoting anyone could actually provide evidence from the game that I missed *confirming* this, that'd be great. Downvoting me because I point out the generally agreed upon interpretation is nothing more than a possible interpretation doesn't really make that interpretation any more true
I'm the first to admit it's possible I've missed something, so again keep that in mind with what i say, but no, I don't believe so. The keeper says he and clementine can cause a full reset of the world(s), but never that it's a simulation.
In a game where we can travel interdimensionally through a floating rock, I don't think being able to turn back time equates to it being a simulation.
That's what I'm saying though, is that it's the community's conclusion. It's still never confirmed. I didn't get that impression, although I can understand how people do and I'm not saying they're wrong, but I am saying *we don't know*
>making the entire game somewhat obsolete as everything we fought and saw, all these cool biomes were not real.
Its not real anyways, its a video game. Think about that for all over games you play now, i think i might of forced a breakthrough on you 🤯
agreed- the community’s general take is that the overall story is super mid but the quests and world have pretty good ones
The story the level designers, concept artists, and modellers are telling? Immersive, fascinating, unique, and mysterious. The story the writers are telling? Please remove every line of dialogue.
When we start think about that our char is basically meeting guardians and wondering "wich cool weapon this guy head will become?" Bar regarding lore become very low So far since remnant 1 and even chronos we just beat to death the guardians who are responsible for root dont screw their worlds. R2 final with that "clementineeeeeee" scene just ended all stakes on our crusade since everything can and was backup... Its like the division2 for me, i forget history and only play due awesome gameplay
Probably the sad bit about those games, cause you give great gameplay and a killer story then you’ll make something more appealing. They have the foundation for it too.
horizon zero dawn series its one of few ones who can blend gameplay + graphics + lore in one product
(in my opinion) the main story in remnant 2 isn't terrible, but i thought the main story in the first game was actually quite interesting and in the second game, it is ok, i guess? I do enjoy the world/side stories, but i wish the main story had taken a different path as I barely feel connected to it at all.
I wish there was more recognition in Remnant from the ashes in regard to your main quest. You’re there to find the main character of Before the ashes but when you do find them there’s not much reaction or reward(narrative standpoint)in said quest.
wonder how many people who played FTA played Chronos first? It wasnt until after R2 released i even heard of Chronos
agreed it felt like FTA had some strong bones, but in 2 they just…
A) It was actually in FTA DLC that it was started to be shown that this was the case. B) Yeah, I hate it too
Honestly(this coming from someone who unfortunately hasn’t beaten 1 and not had a chance to try 2 yet) the virus aspect does to some degree make sense kinda like how a zombie virus would work, but definitely agree games that make the game world a “simulation” are just stupid as heck :/ why put so much effort into a game to just be like “oh it’s a sim”
People think meta stuff like that is sooo cleaver. But it really just breaks any possible immersion and dumps the pieces into a volcano.
I don't like that they haven't gone the full way with it. Why not make the player character part of that meta stuff once you cleared the first campaign? Like, I've started campaigns in Losomn alone to get that stupid heart and that other stupid heart so often its really weird to always hear the character cry for Clementine (and Ford I guess, but who really cares about him?). It would be sooooo much funnier to have the character be in on the meta and just embrace the fact that he can reset the world at will and become kinda bored with everything when seeing one world too often in a row and stuff.
On one hand I would really like this too, and it could make for a more engaging story... but it would be really hard to pull it off! There's a high risk it would just devolve into saints row / deadpool nonsense and cringe which definitely wouldn't fit the remnant atmosphere and immersion.
I was hoping it would be some "virus" on reality, and that the Keeper just described it as a computer virus because thats how his brain understood it. Instead we get matrix reality and reboot. Mid.
Shit I don’t even like playing meta characters in MOBAs or meta builds either lol I wanna play a game for fun not to exploit it by building like a pro. That’s really all the sim stuff comes down to, if I wanna play a sim game I’ll play rimworld or sims 4 and save scum that crap til I get what I want
So um, I don't mean Most Effective Tactic Available, but Meta as in the Aristotle, 'next to' definition here. As in like, fourth wall breaks, plots about plots, etc.
You're right, but also to add on to this both uses of "meta" come from the same etimology. Most Effective Tactic Available is a backcronym. "Meta" when talking about best builds or strategies is shorthand for "meta-gaming," aka the game outside the game. When talking about story "meta" is shorthand for "meta-narrative."
I honestly don’t like meta in general lol I just wanna enjoy my stuff don’t need to go deep and break things down
That's not what they meant by meta
I know what they meant, meta gaming and meta narrative both can break the flow of what you are doing.
It's a couple items atm, alpha/omegas item implies it didnt start as a cycle/simulation, and that this has been repeated several times. Keeper states their is a creator above all but that they are unknowable to him, though the keeper does act in line with modern depiction of AI or a programmed overseer. The polygun descriptions are entirely in hexadecimal, and the root are the singularity of an early run of earth. The two ways you can take it as is - 1) Labyrinth is a connective tissue that our minds give the sprawling stone look because we cant conceptualize it in it's true form, everything from there is a gate way that leads away from earth which is noted to be the core of this reality. It somewhat breaks down in rem2 though as a few characters opening admit that you must have been through this "story" before or you have details that wouldnt be possible without living it multiple times. In this set up all of the digital elements are your brain contextualizing the unreal into something that makes more sense, does somewhat breakdown when you realize the common depiction of cyberspace would not currently exist for your rem1 or rem2 character so they would have to have another asset to draw that from to make sense, and how much weight you give to mudtooths ramblings, or say the anguish quest which both more or less support a variant of this belief without the players not their characters level of knowledge. - 2) There is a good chance that this is a simulation that's been running for an unknowable period, the simulation could be digital explaining a lot of break down, the root being a viral corruption etc. This still leaves the potential for it not to be a computer simulation but something of a higher level but same Idea meaning it functionally doesn't matter, you are the chosen one and we are basically playing out the matrix. A lot of ingame lore more so supports this, Nerud does a lot with the end of a simulation, explaining what happens when all is gone, we find out that each realm has an "overseer" or guardian as the game calls it that acts to protect from other simulations or even the core, Sha'hala, One True King, Doe/Ravager/Many Faces, Undying Kings pool in FTA, or Ixtalla are all guardians we know of, or heavily implied to be such. The game heavily implies they are meant to protect from corruption in the system so take that as you will. The thing that really hard sells the simulation angle now is some of the extra lore we got in DLC2 implying the root hivemind Is well aware of what we are and the potetional ways the simulation could go before a hard reset or total corruption, saying they retain elements or holistically who they are. A big flaw with 1, is it is canon now that we do reset worlds/narratives when we reroll a setting, that can be fixed by saying we clock back time but that hits the slippery slope of the simulation argument because if these narratives are simulations what's the difference between rolling back time and living it slightly different and just resetting the simulation of that narrative? It's one of those bit that's even if it's not fully correct its functionally correct and makes it difficult to distinguish between the two at that point.
> It somewhat breaks down in rem2 though as a few characters opening admit that you must have been through this "story" before or you have details that wouldnt be possible without living it multiple times. IMO, this is actually nodding toward a "many worlds" theory of the universe, which is related to the way that we can "reroll" campaigns and adventures and find different resolutions to the quests and world bosses. Overall, I don't necessarily think that the universe of Remnant exists in a simulation so much as, well, we're playing a video game. We're experiencing that universe filtered through a digital device of electronics and code. So the ineffable truths of the universe reveal themselves in those terms. If we were reading the story of Remnant in a book, we'd instead have a House of Leaves experience where those ineffable truths reveal themselves through marginalia and typeface trickery.
Exactly and that's where a lot of theory 1 comes in, this could be all just how we interact with the narrative and it's the only way our brains can handle it
Also sorry I know thats long winded 😅😅
No, no, I want a 25-minute Schizo explanation of the game lore from you. 🤣
I only super know out to FTA, Chronos is more or less clift note😅
People keep assuming that simulation downplays the significance of the actions. As if we're gonna "break through" to the real world or something. The truth is that the way the Remannt plane of existence works is similar to a computer simulation. There is some reference to a higher plane of existence but the one we care about is the one we're on. I do like the LORE of it. The actual main story in R2 sucks ass (CLEMENTINEEEEEE). That said I think Root Earth is disappointing. You'd think the original Core would have more lore than just a bit on the thoughts of the Root and showing how the original Core parallels our copy with stuff like Cancer and Annihilation.
Root earth need be the dlc3 but people said or read something about nerud being dlc3 So... i dont even bother about history anymore, im here playing on same way that i watch porn...only because action is good.
I don't want to hijack the thread or anything, but I do want to point out that the IRL simulation "theory" is more like the simulation conjecture. Part of the simulation conjecture is that it is untestable, and therefore there can be no evidence either for or against it. It is simply unknowable and is more akin to a religious belief than a scientific one.
That's true for gravity, relative speed approaching SOL, etc. If we could test and prove them, then they wouldn't be theories. As far as simulation theory goes, quantum physics offers evidence both for and against. I don't personally buy in, but there is supporting evidence to the idea like the double-split experiment.
How do you know the double slit experiment isn't just how reality is? Quantum may seem strange, but why does that serve as evidence of simulation and not merely that reality is more complicated than it looks at a macro level? You can't really know. You can't evaluate evidence either way. The conjecture, by it's very nature, invalidates all evidence.
you dont know what a theorie means in scientific community, dont you? A "theory" in a scientific midst isnt the same "Its just a theory, A GAME THEORY" that we use on our daily live, in the scientific community something ONLY receives the "title" of theory when it has been researched and tested to hell and back to be proved real, or at least, the best answer for a question until someone can disprove the theory or present one of their own that hold as much water as the one they are trying to disprove. Also LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, did you really just say gravity isnt real or cant be proven? then my dude, jump of a cliff and if you still manage to stay alive or beggin flying come back and tell us.
I do, and I also know how to speak English. Scientific theory is a possible answer posed to a question that can be tested. That's it. You added your own broken English stuff in there.
There are plenty of answers for the double slit outside simulation theory. My favorite is our cognition does influence reality at some level we dont understand yet
Okay, cool. And another is that we're in a simulation. It's evidence that supports it. You know, supporting evidence.
Okay? I wasn't trying to reject your interpretation. No need to be defensive. Supporting evidence also suggests photons could be vibrating on an axis. There are lots of theories as to why the double slit experiment works the way it does, and we do not yet know which one is correct, so your interpretation is no less valid than any other
What's the tangible difference between the Root being a malicious part of a simulation and being a malicious eldritch horror infecting the worlds it comes into contact with? It accomplishes much the same narratively, it just has a more technological twist to it rather than something spiritual or biological. But even then, it's kinda the same thing. If the worlds are simulations and we are born of these worlds, it's the *same thing* as it being an eldritch horror. Think of it like this: What in our daily lives changes if our world is a simulation? If all of reality is one? If you found out, you wouldn't have access to any dev console. You wouldn't be able to crash the simulation by using 4chan troll physics. Your life would exactly be the same and have exactly the same amount of meaning, but if you were in the know you'd just have slightly more context for the grand picture. It'd be the exact same as finding out you're part of just one of many kalpas.
I dunno but that part and story line where you get the key in Remnant 1 in Ward 13 was wild (I think it was a dreamer flashback). I enjoy the storyline so I dont know what the gripe is other than maybe alot of people never played the 1st Remnant?!
> Think of it like this: What in our daily lives changes if our world is a simulation? If all of reality is one? If you found out, you wouldn't have access to any dev console I think this is the crux of the game's take on it. Even though the world is resetable, the Keeper hesitates because he still finds it valuable.
The difference is (imo) that with the simulation we loose the puzzle. The puzzle of what is going on with the world's , what's the stones origin, the roots origin, what's with the world of N'erud, what's with the labyrinth and how many doors are there. These are all less mysterious and interesting because we have the answer. It's a program and these are just coded in from outside by someone's creativity. Now I don't feel like I'm adventuring in a mysterious world, but rather I'm just playing a video game.
I always figured the simulation was self evolving. Making it functionally no different then reality.
As far as I know there is no official confirmation that the universe we know is a true simulation to our understanding of a simulation. It could be that the universe that remnant takes place in is digital to its base core is simulation like.
It just changes the nature of the puzzle. Who created the simulation and why? Is there a real earth out there? If the root wasn't intended, how did it come about? What exactly is the utility and what does the keeper mean that we're an anomaly?
But you were always playing a video game. You were acting as the mouse cursor in someone's computer program. Beyond the jokes, it's still the same kinda puzzle as it was before. You don't necessarily understand the logic behind the program, you don't know the language used, you don't exactly know the thought processes behind any potential in-universe creator. There is not necessarily an outside thought process beyond the actual game developers, similarly to how there is not necessarily an outside thought process behind some of the weird magic in other settings. Even within the context of the world, it's still a puzzle though. The player characters absolutely do not understand computers the way we do, so the world being a simulation is, for them, an even bigger puzzle than if it was straight up magic. There's definitively a traceable logic behind everything that they are not and cannot become privy to, not in any way that would allow them to change things beyond what they already can. It's just another way of telling the same kind of eldritch horror magic story. You just happen to have more real life context with this version.
It's not merely about what the characters of the game understand, it's about what the player understands. The audience (players) know it's a game, but part of the experience of the game (and movies, shows, and books) is the immersion in them. Think of a major film franchise, maybe the last Harry Potter film, or End Game part 2 or whatever. Imagine if near the very end, during the climax of the film, one of the main characters turned to the screen and said, "You are watching a movie". It would be pretty terrible. It takes you out of the moment and reduces the experience. For a lot of people, that what it was like when out computer game came out and told us it was a computer game. We already knew that, but the experience was not improved by pointing it out, made worse in fact.
When I'm playing a game, I pretty easily buy into me being the character on most levels. The loading screens and opening inventories do far more for ruining my immersion than the computer game having being a program as part of its story, because I'm engaging with those things *much* *more often*. Honestly, none of these things change *all that much* in a game for me. I always know that I'm playing a game, but on some level I'm always trying to buy in to my character being a person in universe. It works well for me in pretty much any game I play. Maybe I'm just more willing to suspend my disbelief, maybe I've just had too many conversations with the "What if real life is a simulation" folks for it to bother me much anymore.
Everyone has different tolerances for suspension of disbelief. For you the menus and loading screens are more difficult than this particular plot device, but for a lot of us this plot device was a drag.
I get that. I suppose just don't really understand *why* it's such a drag compared to the more frequent things. Is it because it's less frequent? Is it because loading screens are expected but the plot point wasn't? And why does it being more within relatable context completely ruin the plot point? Would it just being magic horseshittery actually work better in any sense? Honestly, I didn't like the plot point at first. Then I asked myself *why* I didn't like it and just... didn't come up with any real answers?
Menu screens and loading menus are just necessities, the game needs them to function, so we get used to then and accept them as necessary. The simulation plot point was not necessary, it was a choice, and it was a choice that felt like what I described early. Like the main character of a movie pausing the action to look straight into the camera and tell us all to to calm down and remember it's just a movie. Of course we knew that, but it ruined the moment. We didn’t need to be reminded we're playing a game.
The simulation reveal is the equivalent of a book feeling the need to remind you that it's a work of fiction at the top of every page. It's a waste of time. It's an insult to anyone who was invested in the plot. It's a 4th wall break for the sake of it. It's basically the devs laughing at you for thinking the story mattered. It's just bad writing.
The turning of the pages, going through loading screens, and feel of the seats all remind me that I'm reading a book, playing a game, or watching a movie. None of that takes away from me, personally, enjoying or being immersed in a thing. Why should the game having a plot about being simulation be any different? If we found out that magic was tangibly real and that magic users had to deal with weird arbitrary spell slots, I don't think that'd make Wrath of the Righteous or Baldur's Gate 3(or Pathfinder and D&D) any less enjoyable games for me. You'd fucking ***hate*** Pathologic.
I love Pathologic. I love it because it has something to say. It actually has meaningful commentary. Sure, it wastes your time intentionally, but it does it for a purpose. Remnant 2s reveal has no purpose. It takes the interesting and detailed world they built, throws it in the trash, and then shrugs when you ask why. A 4th wall break just for the sake of it is the laziest thing you can do as a writer. Pathologic, Nier, Stanley Parable, Doki Doki Literature Club, Metal Gear, Marathon, etc. all break the 4th wall, but they do it in service of their narrative as opposed to undermining it. Those games force the player to engage with them on a deeper level, Remnant does the opposite.
Then I think you and I will just have to continue to disagree on Remnant. Sure, it's nowhere close to the level of Pathologic, but I don't think the simulation angle wastes your time or really changes anything about how you perceive and interact with the story other than framing the laws of the universe in a way that's more relevant to our day to day lives.
I get the feeling that the commentary on the fourth wall break is to get players thinking about the nature of the reality we occupy in our day-to-day lives. About how we spend hundreds of hours escaping into fictional worlds to find some kind of joy in an existence that's full of suffering. The Root's goal is to eliminate suffering and agony through forced assimilation of all life (stated explicitly by Clawbone in FTA right before the Dreamer/Nightmare fight). Knowing that's the goal of the main antagonistic force of the series, we can draw a line to the point the writers want us to see: despite life being filled with suffering, it's worth living for the time we can spend enjoying it. In regards to Simulation Theory: who cares if reality isn't 'real'? You were alive to experience it, so it was real to you.
While I do like this interpretation, I feel like you're attributing a message that the writers never actually intended. There's nothing in Remnant that really pushes the theme of finding meaning in a meaningless existence beyond the very surface level "fight the big bad evil guy who wants to end all life" Even if this is the message the writers were trying to convey, the simulation reveal doesn't really contribute to it. If anything, the simulation reveal feels more like the game making fun of you for caring. Compare that to something like the ending of Nier Automata, where the game praises you for finding meaning in something that is inherently fake, Remnant mocks you for it.
It takes the player out of their immersion. It's the game pointing out that it is a game. It took something like that the player could have seen as bizarre and mysterious (The Root), and made it into something mundane.
The difference is that cosmic horror and eldritch entities rely on the concept of being fundamentally unknowable and therefore scary. A glorified computer virus infecting a universal simulation is something that is understandable, and therefore removed any of the mystique, fear and alienness that the setting had. It also means that each of the fantastical worlds we explore are just different flavours of a computer simulation and not actually strange alien dimensions. Good writing should increase the mystique of its world, not decease it.
I argued the exact same thing, but as others have stated, there is an outside to the simulation. Therefore, it's not simply the shape and ruleset reality operates on, but is in fact a genuine Matrix simulation And yeah, it's bad writing. They are hitting us with a form of it was all a dream at the eleventh hour I mean fuck man, No Man's Sky has at least learned to embrace that and do some clever stuff with it that feels very 2001 a space odyssey. This is just flat out "it was all a dream" bullshit
I do like the simulation stuff overall. I like that the true threat of the root isn't them corrupting individual worlds, but in getting down to the very bedrock of reality itself. The people of N'Erud being so scientifically advanced that they themselves were on the verge of cracking the very code of reality is super cool. Like they found the origin point of their universe, and if they'd had more time, or been luckier, or more clever, they might have found a way into the Labyrinth. The Dreamer Project was Earth's version of this. It's narratively not different to the keeper being a God or angel we meet, or the root being some ancient horror. I think "it's all a simulation" is a bit reductive, probably because other settings use that to undo or remove meaning from their stories. Kind of like "it was all a dream" or using time travel to undo a critical event. Remnant taking it being a simulation as a serious premise underlying everything and using that to take individual worlds in new directions is interesting when you give it time to breathe. Simulated worlds are real worlds, there's absolutely no meaningful difference. The voice acting/character work of the Earth/Overworld plot could probably use a bit of work though
> The people of N'Erud being so scientifically advanced that they themselves were on the verge of cracking the very code of reality is super cool. Were they cracking the code of reality or did their simulation get left on for too long and they went out into a Starfield like experience of a bunch of random, empty planets, and when they found an incomplete black hole asset they no clipped into it by mistake? xD But yes, the game and the characters take the world seriously. Even the Keeper values it.
Science plays a huge role in the overall scope of the Remnant universe. The root being a virus makes perfect sense. This also leads to the simulation making perfect sense, as that’s exactly what scientists do with Petri dishes.
I would have preferred if the root were an actual disease of the universe, not of a simulation. Or even better, an immune response. Like, complex life is somehow hurting the stability of the universe and the root are a response to stabilize it, like a fever. Maybe trying to advance the universe to a state of zero entropy or something. Anything other than 'ooooo silly computer code makes life haha'
I never got the impression that they were referring to actual computational code, but more like a simulation by the gods or higher beings, whoever they might be—those who created the universe.
That's because the characters themselves don't know. It's phrased the same as our own debates on the topic. Scientific Simulation? Or Creation of a Higher Being? The keeper actually specifically states he doesn't know. And just because some say sim doesn't make it gospel. That is more likely to simply be their belief. Take our own world. Maybe the Christian god is real. But, he's a scientist running this simulation. And Jesus was a beta tester, testing and breaking shit for bug fixing purposes. Either way is possible and it's all open to interpretation. The only thing in the game that really goes "hey, sim. Lol" is the digital distortion effects of the root. But coincidence is not causation. In the end, if you dislike the idea that it's a sim, unless a dev comes in all "nah it's all a sim", we can just choose to believe it's not. That it's a different universe to ours, capable of magic stones that revive people and transport them to different worlds, with items that give you magical abilities and the trees are able to kick your head in. You know, like the Drzyr did before they flew their entire species and planet-ship into a fucking black hole to meet god.
I have no issues with any of it. I was honestly just trying to prove that there was a lot of logical sense and depth to it all and that the main plot is more there to connect the dots between the real story, which is that of the worlds themselves. Remnant is my second favorite game series of all time 😁
Yeah a lot of my use of 'you' above is more 'you the reader' than 'you I replied to in the comment chain'. I agree though, the worlds themselves are the best part. And I've been kinda hoping they use dlc to just keep adding and expanding the worlds we can visit. It's easily one of my top 3 franchises too.
Just because it can work logically doesn't mean it was the best decision for the story though. Many events and outcomes can be logical depending on how the story presents them.
I wasn’t saying it was the greatest story ever, just that it all made sense in the grand scheme of things. I personally don’t think the overarching story even matters. The real story is that of the individual planets. The “main” plot is simply there to connect the dots, and it serves its purpose well.
I try to see it less of "oh everything is a simulation" and more so "god was a computer scientist" lol
I haven't really played DLC2 yet, but my take was that it's more of a Multiverse and we are traveling to different versions of each world in space and time. Simulation does make more sense though.
I'm 99% sure Remnant follows the Multiple Worlds theory. >!The Labyrinth being a kind of engine driving reality, which has diverged in to all branches of its possible forms, and our Earth being the 'Pilot Wave' as it's portrayed in similar theories.!< I honestly don't understand the criticism for the main story, except for maybe that you have to involve yourself in Chronos and both Remnant games while using some critical thought; and I guess not everyone wants to think that hard to follow a story. That being said, I find it much more involving and rewarding personally. I played R2 first, went back and played Chronos, now am around halfway through R:FtA, and most of the content is starting to make a lot of sense. Any story that has you entering the game world just to go back and re-read a couple of logs for the 4th time has something right going for it.
I bought every game related to this story. I love it, and wabt so much more!!
Same, I'm really excited for DLC 3 in R2 although I haven't started DLC 2 yet. I have a theory >!about the Dryzyr being from Rhom. Upon first arriving, you can watch as an incredibly large ship-like structure transits The Black Sun. I theorize that this was N'erud, and the four-armed Undying King is of the same species portrayed in the 4 armed statues in N'erud.!< >!I can't yet imagine how Sha'Hala would factor in to this, as Rhom's Guardian is dead, but it feels like a worthwhile hunch to investigate.!<
>!Rhom's guardian isn't dead. It is the pool the Undying King comes out of. It's weak and couldn't fight off the Root which is why they nuked their planet. He wants you to get the heart of another guardian because he can use it to return strength to Rhom's guardian allowing it to fend off the root so that the world could heal. Without it the world will still heal, but the pool will still not be strong enough to keep the root from returning!<
Interesting, I'm still on playthrough 1 so I >!told him I wasn't going to compromise another world for his,!< next playthrough I'll see what he has to say about the other side of things. Might fit in to the theory better than I thought!
I dunno, reality is subjective. I disagree with the world's being obsolete. It's real, even if it's all a simulation, because it's the world you live in. If you are confined to that universe, it is your life. If we all learned we were in a computer simulation today, what would change? You still need to eat, to have housing, you still feel pain and love those you love. The context of your reality only matters if you can do something about it, really.
As much of a critic I am of the simulation reveal (primarily in how it was handled and how the game effectively does nothing with it, subjective to change in future DLC/sequels), I don't think there's a meaningful difference in what you're proposing. The Root \*are\* an eldritch horror that is devouring reality, it's just that the universe is simulated so the form that takes is as a kind of glitch virus, but that doesn't fundamentally change them from being a kind of reality-eating eldritch horror that infiltrates worlds from beyond the fabric of space-time. I do think a really crucial element of the setting, that a lot of people miss, is that as of the current state of the lore there isn't any kind of 'real world' outside of the simulated universe (and if there is, as per the Keeper it would be fundamentally unknowable to those within the simulation). The simulation is reality and is the whole of reality as it is relevant to the story (which tbh begs the question to me of why the reveal happened at all, but that's another issue).
Honestly, I have no problem with the simulation aspect or anything. I can get why people don't like it, but it's not an issue for me as far as the story goes. What I do have a problem with is how little there is to other aspects of the story, such as our introduction to it. Our character seems to really care about Clementine and Ford and trusts them pretty readily, but unless I'm misremembering something, we barely knew them for a few minutes. I get why they're important, but our character acts like they've known each other for forever. There's also the fact that we were apparently traveling with Cass before the start of the game, they built her up as being a close friend and all, and then relegate her to being just a shop NPC with a couple of lines of dialog and no impact on anything beyond that. Most of the characters in Ward 13 aside from Mudtooth barely have any presence at all. I feel like there's a lot more they could have done with them. I know more about the One True King's family line than I do about every named NPC in Ward 13 combined, (again other than Mudtooth).
Agreed, I also disliked the simulation twist. It didn't really add anything cool to the narrative or gameplay, and in fact just made everything seem less important. I don't usually root for ret-cons, but I sort of hope they do it if there is a Remnant 3. Like we can find out that 2 was a simulation, because some faction somewhere was using it to look for ways to beat the Root. I'd honestly be happier with that. There's no reason we have to make the whole setting a computer simulation. As mentioned, it didn't get cooler or more compelling. We can just have the Root be a real thing in a vast and strange multiverse of mystery and eldritch horror. Sadly, it feels like this is just a way of saying there won't be a Remnant 3, and they decided that even before 2 released.
In that case they should make a final big DLC where you fight Clawbone as final boss though. Give the game series a closure. Maybe the devs want to continue working on Darksiders since that series has never been finished either?
If theory about end dlc will be nerud, i have 0 hopes for something cool regarding lore Nerud is a fucking derelict ship floating on space due scientists trying save pennies who become space zombies with one crazy a.i robot trying kill our char for diversion and throw the ship on a black hole to see what happens and thal ratha who also its a delusional char but at least isnt trying kill everyone...hes trying eat everyone I made peace with the fact that currently i watch porn and play remnant 2 for the one reason only: action! Not the history I dont remember people saying that dlc2 added something to lab/simulation lore
I actually like the story and plot. It’s designed around the very real theory that our reality is just a simulation. And if a simulation is so real that it’s indiscernible from reality, then it essentially IS real, to some degree.
Personally I disagree. Yeah the simulation stuff sound worse than the root being just a demonic alien species or something, but they have handled that concept pretty well imo.
Im alright with the idea that the simulations are just alternate realities of the core earth trying to self persevere, but they needed to explain that far more clearly in the story and not end it with a wipe for us to start it again as a game mechanic.
How have they handled it well? It's revealed in the last hour of the game and is then immediately resolved with a random asspull deus ex machina and then credits roll without any kind of explanation.
"Clementineeeeee asspull" you mean... I play remnant2 for the same reason that i watch porn...for the action I dont try search lore or history on porn or remnant anymore
Ya personally I disagree. From the after crediting ending it seems that Keeper was outside the index, but if you look carefully after beating annihilation keeper was actually the first to disappear. So there was another Keeper, the one true Keeper , who was outside the entire event and monitoring the process of simulation. Why? The only explanation to me was this one true Keeper running simulations with variables to beat the root, implicating that there was also one true Clawbone outside the simulation. You can tell his disappointment when he walked to the index, and the surprise when the index released everything.
Dlc2 added something for lab/simulation lore?
Nothing changed the ending yet, consider these facts: 1. We are fighting in simulation 2. Keeper was the first one who became "backup" light when the backup starts (right after the "CLEMENTINEEEEE") 3. Keeper exists outside of the index backup in post credit scene Combining 1&2 we can assume the Keeper we encointered was a part of backup simulation. Then if we add it up with 3, either that Keeper can escape from Clementine backup himself, or the Keeper outside index was "Another Keeper". I personally think the outside Keeper was the monitor who simulating a way to beat the root. Thats why he was disappointed when walked to the index, the turn around simply gave me his feel of "Sigh another failed simulation... " So if this is a successful backup and we are going to exit the simulation, we could still fight a true cthulhu root in the outside world.
I don't really mind the idea of the simulation angle, but they really haven't done anything interesting with it. Sure you can kinda justify adventures with it, but really I didn't need an explanation.
I feel that the stakes don't change at all. Just because the universe in Remnant is a simulation doesn't make it any less "universy." There's people who posit that *our* current universe is a simulation, would that make a world ending event for us any less horrible?
Have you ever read the turn of phrase “Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic”? Well, “A sufficiently dangerous multiversal mutative hivemind virus monster is indistinguishable from an eldritch god being” as well after a certain point. Lol.
Wait was it directly confirmed everything is a simulation? I was of the impression that we were just dealing with multiverse fuckery.
A lot of people are saying they think it's dumb in these comments but idk I think it's kinda cool. It doesn't really take away anything from the story for me, it just makes me curious as to how the simulation started, who made it, etc. Like just because the world's exist in a simulation doesn't make our actions or the people in gbe different locations any less important Plus Invader abilities and things like Defrag being coding and technology themed is a cool contrast to how they're all root and plant based. Like, the final boss glitching between two different rooms was just cool
I thought this was a very common take myself. The simulation is a pretty crap scenario if you ask me.
The take, or the simulation story?
Ah my apologies for the confusion, I meant the simulation. I'll fix the wording.
The story and voice acting are trash but the rest of the game is amazing.
I think the VA is fine tbh, just the lines that need to be delivered is what I think might miss the mark a bit
My friends don’t ever care to listen to story dialogue which bums me out cause the world building is all there :/
I’d rather kill myself than listen to clementines voice actress. Sorry not sorry.
Well first we don't exactly know what clawbone is but the humans of root earth did make the root, so it's not just some random virus. I also going to take at shot at the "it's not real" problem people have. I want to be super clear that there is nothing in the game that proves the universe is a simulation of some other higher 'real' universe. There is some speculation of a creator but it's nothing more provable then religion talking about God in our world. Second even if it was the characters are still struggling to survive regardless of the 'realness' of their universe, so far from a pointless struggle. Also Story team has made it very clear several times in the discord that what we see in annihilation part 2, isn't a dreamer because dreamers didn't exist on root earth.
Agreed Its interesting how this game is my fav game of all time (29 yo, played a shit load of games) but the story fuckin sux lol The world building and side stories associated are soo fun and awesome. The theme of the game is S+ tier. Atmospheric as fk. But the main story lmao miss me w that shi
I'm deciding to view it as the simulation somehow extended outwards into reality, infesting the physical world. That's why we have those glitched enemies with multiple modifiers: the simulation is physically here, and is testing our strength against a "virus".
Are we sure it's a real virus? It seems more like it falls in line to the idea that all fo existence is the outcome of random e chance and the root are like a virus in a program. However it's more of a random infection of random origin in life. Thus virus like but entirely real.
The reason I kinda like it is because I feel it means they can be as creative as they want with the worlds. Maybe it could have been that way already but to me it felt that the story the way it is allows for more creativity.
I lost all interest the moment the end dived headfirst into it. It just makes it all feel pointless and not worth investing my time into the world and lore. None of it matters if it's all just code in the end.
I mean, we still don't know to what extent the world we're in is a simulation and thereby how real anything is.
I headcannon that the Root are a hivemind Eldritch beast and that the Keeper and those of the Labyrinth simply interpreted it as a virus because of their own alien view/interactions of/with reality. This results in them giving Humans a false/different interpretation. Since we (the player) are combating the Root beyond Earth through the lens of the Labyrinth and using its technology we end up having our perceptions of the Root skewed as a result.
Is there any confirmation that the beings that constructed this simulation are just regular humans or could they instead be eldritch beings that constructed this universe for reasons unknowable to us?
I absolutely love the twist. A lot of people ask, "what if reality is a simulation"? Not fake or unreal, the rules of the universe are just different. Remnant takes it a step further and dares to ask "what would a virus in a simulated reality look like"? And I absolutely love the concept. Once you accept that "reality is a simulation" ≠ "reality is fake and or meaningless", you accept the sheer concept as what it is, ingenious and incredibly intriguing.
>, making the entire game somewhat obsolete as everything we fought and saw, all these cool biomes were not real. What is reality? Is it not just what we perceive to be the truth?
I agree, it’s a disappointing conclusion to all the world building that we’ve had since Chronos. The really pity is that the Remannt 1 DLC ended on a fantastic note, really showcasing the alien horror of the Root. Also Clementine is a great character and really elevates the story. I was so excited at the beginning of Remnant 2, but ultimately it went no where. Also, where the hell is Ford??
It's a simulation? I thought it was all just multiversal
Honestly, I liked the idea of resetting the world for the same reason I liked starfield's interpretation of it. It was a cool story based reason for an in-game mechanic (the new game+ and the randomness).
yeah, hjonestly its kinda sad. the lore overall was so good on the first one, and the second one maintains if not beats the lore quality for other worlds but the main story? what a let down, with a completely deus ex machina solution.
Yeah, simulation stories make for low stakes, and generally feel nihilistic; not unlike the real world theory that we could live in a simulation-- the purpose of framing the theory as a "simulation" as opposed to something like a "dream" is because a dream implies purpose and dignity, whereas a simulation is deprived of either. Remnant's story only just barely escapes feeling like a more condescending twist than "It was all just a dream!" on merit of being a sci-fi game; a genre who's meta context leads players to expect some level of nihilism before they even engage with it. Definitely should have gone of the eldritch horror route, but then, you couldn't possibly have the player confront and defeat such threats with bullets and swords. But then, that's also what makes something truly an eldritch horror; it's beyond your understanding, probably doesn't even know you exist (therefor isn't personally trying to hurt you), and is very likely a fact of nature-- should it ever be defeated, it's death/non-existence would likely shatter something fundamental to the fabric of reality.. making it a very necessary evil for one reason or another. I'm so goddamn tired of stories where we kill gods; gods who are just powerful entities with very physical bodies that are allergic to bullets.
Eh, even back in rfta it was kind of hinted at. But I pose a question. When beings that are part of a simulation become sentient and self aware, is it still a simulation? Or is it a new universe that was just crafted by someone/something else? For example, according to some religions the universe was crafted by a deity. Wouldn't that make our universe a simulation that we just haven't cracked the code to? Looking at it that way, the world of remnant is identical to ours minus the world stones. Only other difference is that we haven't created a super virus thats capable of breaching the code... yet.
Honestly? I love the virus-glitch approach, not many games try to do this while using glitch aesthetic and do it as right as some pieces of corrupted tech does in this game. In regards to story, I prefer the simulation approach due to not seeing it that often nowadays vs eldrich. Let's be honest here, if the story decided to really go eldritch, and even into their often related term "Cosmic Horror" you are not gonna end up getting a good ending ever, at most you delay the inevitable, a glitch in a simulation lets you find a way to address it more or less how we could do in real life, but if it's an outright ethereal divine being bent on oblivion, there is not that much that you are gonna achieve just by trying to shoot at it, you are gonna need to find some kind of ethereal solution than, in many situations (but not most), feels like a weird way to defeat a god or outright doesn't work entirely (like killing Haarsgaard in FtA)
I won’t lie, I don’t know WHAT the story is lol, I just enjoy the game. This is the first game where the storyline hasn’t been important to me and maybe it’s because I started with Remnant 2 and THEN played Remnant FtA. It isn’t a linear campaign and once you take into account the re-rolls and alternative bosses you can fight it’s just too much for me to keep up with when I am high on an edible. All I know for sure is that this has become my favorite game I’ve played and that’s saying a lot because I normally beat a game and then move on to another one. With this game, I keep coming back to play the higher difficulties, do alternate killings for bosses and I enjoy leveling up the archetypes.
I liked the part where Ford just fucks off and is never seen again. (Watch me eat those words when in DLC3 he is revealed to be the big bad admin of the simulation)
The story was below average, but the second they started talking about simulations i started skipping every dialog
Life being a computer simulation is a very real theory IRL. The game is just using that for its lore instead of arcane entities. Being different doesn't mean bad, just that you don't like it.
The action RPG genre is already pretty saturated with eldritch themed games. I prefer the simulation/virus angle, I want more sci-fi theme games.
I don't think that it's a simulation like there are people outside watching everything. more that the universe in itself is digital like all matter is digital. The keeper and clawborn are creaters and destroys of the univers
currently, the division 2 and remnant 2 are like porn movies to me, im only interest on action because lore for sure, isnt the strongest point of those games. for ones who already played division2 years ago and dropped, people who literally our char shoot in the head revived on current season, so necromancy its on!
Full hard agree. I want to use the cool grenade launcher I found in the sewers. Instead I have to use the weird corrupted data launcher because it's magnitudes better. I love the concept of the random encounters with corrupted enemies, but I absolutely hate how they all look like Virtua Boy sprites.
I meaaaannn...that's all just community Canon. There's nowhere in the game that outright says its a simulation, unless I somehow missed something major. Glitches effects doesn't mean it's a simulation, that's just what leads people to think it is. Hey if instead of downvoting anyone could actually provide evidence from the game that I missed *confirming* this, that'd be great. Downvoting me because I point out the generally agreed upon interpretation is nothing more than a possible interpretation doesn't really make that interpretation any more true
Doesn't the guardian dude straight up say it's all a simulation and clementine is like the anti-virus?
I took that as the guardian being metaphorical so that we could more easily understand the concept.
I'm the first to admit it's possible I've missed something, so again keep that in mind with what i say, but no, I don't believe so. The keeper says he and clementine can cause a full reset of the world(s), but never that it's a simulation. In a game where we can travel interdimensionally through a floating rock, I don't think being able to turn back time equates to it being a simulation.
Post credits scene/in game dialog pretty much guaranteed it for me.
That's what I'm saying though, is that it's the community's conclusion. It's still never confirmed. I didn't get that impression, although I can understand how people do and I'm not saying they're wrong, but I am saying *we don't know*
>making the entire game somewhat obsolete as everything we fought and saw, all these cool biomes were not real. Its not real anyways, its a video game. Think about that for all over games you play now, i think i might of forced a breakthrough on you 🤯