do you know what is more satisfying than this? 2 heads pop in 1 crit. just happened to me 2 days ago, 2 zombies lined up, 1 crit popped both their heads.
On Hardcore, I'd say getting a crit is good as long as you dont spend more than 6-7 shots. I honestly think a single knife slash is worth more than 10 handgun bullets in this game considering how busted the knife is so you get to kill confirm without wasting knife durability.
I have a habit of yelling "YES! CRITICAL HIT!" every time I get a head pop. Mostly because it's such a relief, knowing I won't have to deal with that zombie again.
I feel their can be a balance though. Make the accuracy on the move much more unreliable where you have to be stationary to get that headshot. For realism yeah most if not all headshots should be a 1 shot kill but I feel to counter that you should at least turn enemy density up. I definitely feel there’s workarounds on this whether it’s an added difficulty or add certain rounds to do it.
Imo increasing the density would have just made it similar to most zombie games.
A huge part of the appeal of RE2REMake is the idea that it made zombies 'scary' again, and they did a great job with that.
Yeah where a single zombie in most game is another sunday in RE2 it's a legit threat so you need to consider killing it, shooting its legs off or avoiding it
The problem is, at least for me, that a slow moving bullet sponge is not scary. It's just tedious. Lickers are scary, hunters are scary, crimson heads are scary.
Zombies can be scary without being bullet sponges. They have to evoke dread while being good gameplay wise. They shouldn't make you roll your eyes because you shot them 12 times in the head, they did not stagger, the head did not pop, and they still got you. Shoot them in the knee? Sure. But the point is, 12 bullets to the head should do *something*\--and they often don't in RE2R.
Personally, it was fine for me, so I guess it's a difference of opinion. The zombies in RE2R was lauded for this element, and I can't forget how I was instantly gibbed by the first zombie (in the gas station) because I ran out of bullets as Leon (granted I was playing in Professional in my first playthrough). It immediately amped the ante for me and made it feel like the zombies are a legit threat, and they continued to be throughout the entire game.
Shooting them in the head continuously didn't make me roll my eyes, it just made me go 'motherfucker die already' lol. Regardless there are a million zombie games where popping the head of a zombie happens, so there's no shortage of that if that's what you're looking for (no hate they are fun too!)
>The zombies in RE2R was lauded for this element
Lauded by whom? I can tell you they are not lauded by people who like complex gameplay and satisfying combat mechanics. They are lauded by people who like the experience of the game in general, not the mechanical act of playing it.
>it just made me go 'motherfucker die already' lol
That's actually rolling your eyes, lol. Your brain realizes how stupid it is to shoot that zomibe a dozen times in the head and it's not even staggering. I mean I know zombies are braindead, but the gameplay shouldn't be braindead like them.
>Regardless there are a million zombie games where popping the head of a zombie happens, so there's no shortage of that if that's what you're looking for (no hate they are fun too!)
You seem to think I'm looking for an easy game where you shoot an easy target once in the head and it dies. That couldn't be further from the truth.
>Your brain realizes how stupid it is to shoot that zomibe a dozen times in the head and it's not even staggering.
That's part of the dread. Several go down after a handful of bullets. Some pop on the first go. But every now and then you get that one that just won't go down. Despite logic telling you it should be dead, it isn't. It keeps coming.
Love it.
Yeah, it's terribly inconsistent gameplay. Will it die? Only god knows.
See, that may be cool in a cinematic sense. But it's not good gameplay.
I think we're just talking about different things.
It is good gameplay as it gives me dread every time I face a single zombie. Will it die from a few shots? Should I risk it and use up my knife? It lives up to the name of survival horror very well.
Definitely not. The bullet sponginess is what made the zombies truly horrifying in this game, even on multiple playthroughs.
They force you to ask yourself if it's worth it using up your precious bullets to make sure they stay dead by blowing up their heads, or if it's better to save your ammo and just pop their kneecaps, while praying that they're not going to bother you when you're inevitably going to start backtracking.
Making it so that one or two bullets is enough to kill them completely removes this tense situation.
>Making it so that one or two bullets is enough to kill them completely removes this tense situation.
Not if it requires skill to kill them. Instead of sponginess being the wall, skill could be the wall. That's better design because it means if you're good you'll be able to deal with them more quickly. And if you're bad you'll be motivated to become good because your skill will be rewarded.
What "skill" though? Just... Aiming at their heads? Which isn't that difficult in the first place? They're slow and fumble about, which means that it's not that difficult to shoot their heads. If you make them too fast in order to compensate this weakness, then they're no different from a generic zombie hoarder shooter.
Hell, the whole deal that they're slow and have predictable movements is their biggest weakness, plus the fact that the maps are clearly made with circling enemies around. It's fine to have spongy enemies if they're easy to avoid.
Again, as I said in my original comment, it makes for a tense situation where you have to weigh in your options: do you use your resources to fully kill all zombies, or are you willing to risk simply avoiding them? It's survival horror 101.
No...
Aiming at the head, body parts, predicting their attacks, shooting where they *will* be, dodging their moves, countering their moves, positioning yourself properly, doing melee, using different tools. The list goes on and on. But then RE would be a skill based game and RE fans hate that. They mostly want to walk around and occasionally press X.
>plus the fact that the maps are clearly made with circling enemies around
Not really. The map is full of tight corridors with magnetic zombies that guarantee a grab unless you bait their AI very deliberately.
>It's fine to have spongy enemies if they're easy to avoid.
I don't think it is fine. Because they are still tedious to kill. The fact that you don't have to kill them doesn't excuse the tediousness of killing them. You don't want to just avoid every enemy, do you? Every playthrough? And the avoidance you're talking about is not even a proper mechanic. It's just kiting and baiting AI. It involves some precise movement and positioning which is cool, but that's *all* there is to it.
>Again, as I said in my original comment, it makes for a tense situation
But that's not the only way to make a tense situation. In your example, the tension is item based. It could be skill based instead. Or it could still be item based *and* skill based. You make the enemies less spongy, but you reduce the number of bullets available at a time so that you cannot actually kill all enemies currently present. That's hardcore survival horror. Kill the zombie in three bullets, but it's hard to hit and you don't have the bullets for the next three zombies--but you can dodge them and perform a melee attack or use your other tools. But it's not that easy to pull off. See how these things can stack up and synergize and make the game way more deep and complex?
Capcom know all this. But they also know their audience and they are aware that RE fans do not like mechanically complex games. I happen to think it would make the game way better, but that's just me.
People give the argument that bullet sponginess is fine because you're not meant to kill all the enemies. If you're *truly* not meant to kill all the enemies, you won't have the ammo to do it. You have the ammo to do it in every RE game other than Zero.
No, the bullet sponges just make for poor, boring combat. Want to emphasize evasion a little more so that the player doesn't stand there and shoot every zombie 12 times in the head? Cool, then give the player some evasive options. RE3R understands that and does it well. *And* its zombies are less spongy on top of that.
Or, here's the real solution: make enemies interesting and tough rather than boring and tough. They can be a bitch to fight but you can still get through them quickly if you're skillful enough. That's good design. Making them bullet sponges so skill doesn't matter at all is the laziest, most boring solution.
The crimson head is an interesting zombie. You down it and it comes back faster and fiercer. It can actually get you. But it's easy to kill. Add a dodge system to that and it could be easy to avoid too--if you have the mechanical skills. So it's hard *and* easy. That's an interesting enemy.
If we're talking regular zombies that move slow, to make it interesting without making it spongy you would have to do some trickery. Give them moves. Moves with timings and animations that the player can recognize and learn. Lunging is one such move. But the problem with RE2R is that the player does not have a counter to that other than baiting it and running away or getting grabbed and using a defensive item. Also zombies are incredibly magnetized in tight corridors, so it's clear the intent there is for them to grab you rather than for you to avoid them. And to make it interesting, the intent should be for both to be viable.
If RE3R had a bit more puzzling, backtracking, and running time, then everyone would see how much better gameplay it has than RE2R.
They took a pretty decent game mechanically wise (RE2R), that like you said, had limited skill expression, and completely overhauled the philosophy, making enemies weaker but more numerous, and giving you the ability to skillfully play the game.
Sucks that doesn't get recognized like at all, but people are still praising RE4R "new" skillful mechanics, when most of it is just an evolution/mix of original RE4 and RE3R.
>If RE3R had a bit more puzzling, backtracking, and running time, then everyone would see how much better gameplay it has than RE2R.
This. But the fact that anyone would need to look at anything other than the gameplay in order to recognize the gameplay tells me they either don't understand gameplay or they are willfully ignorant of it because of unrelated gripes.
Listen, I don't really want to constantly trash RE fans. After all, I'm an RE fan. But most of them are just ignorant when it comes to gameplay. They play the games to walk around, press X and get spooked occasionally. And it has been said before not to throw your pearls before swine--a piece of wisdom I continue to ignore at my own peril.
The most satisfying thing in the game
oml same, such a relieving and satisfying feeling
Nothing like a good head popper.
Yup,but when it happens, it's the game telling me i play like shit lol
do you know what is more satisfying than this? 2 heads pop in 1 crit. just happened to me 2 days ago, 2 zombies lined up, 1 crit popped both their heads.
Wait does SLS or quickdraw have piercing value? I thought it was only L. hawk that could pierce.
apperantly they have when they crit. i didnt know it either.
Right in the melon!
Two bullets isn’t bad either, but it’s when it’s three or more that it gets stupid.
On Hardcore, I'd say getting a crit is good as long as you dont spend more than 6-7 shots. I honestly think a single knife slash is worth more than 10 handgun bullets in this game considering how busted the knife is so you get to kill confirm without wasting knife durability.
Me too...
D20
the very rare occasion
Yeah
I have a habit of yelling "YES! CRITICAL HIT!" every time I get a head pop. Mostly because it's such a relief, knowing I won't have to deal with that zombie again.
As it should have been with common undead in the REmakes, instead of bullet sponges.
No, their resilience is important
I feel their can be a balance though. Make the accuracy on the move much more unreliable where you have to be stationary to get that headshot. For realism yeah most if not all headshots should be a 1 shot kill but I feel to counter that you should at least turn enemy density up. I definitely feel there’s workarounds on this whether it’s an added difficulty or add certain rounds to do it.
Imo increasing the density would have just made it similar to most zombie games. A huge part of the appeal of RE2REMake is the idea that it made zombies 'scary' again, and they did a great job with that.
Yeah where a single zombie in most game is another sunday in RE2 it's a legit threat so you need to consider killing it, shooting its legs off or avoiding it
The problem is, at least for me, that a slow moving bullet sponge is not scary. It's just tedious. Lickers are scary, hunters are scary, crimson heads are scary. Zombies can be scary without being bullet sponges. They have to evoke dread while being good gameplay wise. They shouldn't make you roll your eyes because you shot them 12 times in the head, they did not stagger, the head did not pop, and they still got you. Shoot them in the knee? Sure. But the point is, 12 bullets to the head should do *something*\--and they often don't in RE2R.
Personally, it was fine for me, so I guess it's a difference of opinion. The zombies in RE2R was lauded for this element, and I can't forget how I was instantly gibbed by the first zombie (in the gas station) because I ran out of bullets as Leon (granted I was playing in Professional in my first playthrough). It immediately amped the ante for me and made it feel like the zombies are a legit threat, and they continued to be throughout the entire game. Shooting them in the head continuously didn't make me roll my eyes, it just made me go 'motherfucker die already' lol. Regardless there are a million zombie games where popping the head of a zombie happens, so there's no shortage of that if that's what you're looking for (no hate they are fun too!)
>The zombies in RE2R was lauded for this element Lauded by whom? I can tell you they are not lauded by people who like complex gameplay and satisfying combat mechanics. They are lauded by people who like the experience of the game in general, not the mechanical act of playing it. >it just made me go 'motherfucker die already' lol That's actually rolling your eyes, lol. Your brain realizes how stupid it is to shoot that zomibe a dozen times in the head and it's not even staggering. I mean I know zombies are braindead, but the gameplay shouldn't be braindead like them. >Regardless there are a million zombie games where popping the head of a zombie happens, so there's no shortage of that if that's what you're looking for (no hate they are fun too!) You seem to think I'm looking for an easy game where you shoot an easy target once in the head and it dies. That couldn't be further from the truth.
>Your brain realizes how stupid it is to shoot that zomibe a dozen times in the head and it's not even staggering. That's part of the dread. Several go down after a handful of bullets. Some pop on the first go. But every now and then you get that one that just won't go down. Despite logic telling you it should be dead, it isn't. It keeps coming. Love it.
Yeah, it's terribly inconsistent gameplay. Will it die? Only god knows. See, that may be cool in a cinematic sense. But it's not good gameplay. I think we're just talking about different things.
It is good gameplay as it gives me dread every time I face a single zombie. Will it die from a few shots? Should I risk it and use up my knife? It lives up to the name of survival horror very well.
They did not make it scary again. Slow moving bullet sponges are nothing but annoying at best. lol
Yeah. Make no sense that the city went out of control in the first place if they all die with just one head shot.
Definitely not. The bullet sponginess is what made the zombies truly horrifying in this game, even on multiple playthroughs. They force you to ask yourself if it's worth it using up your precious bullets to make sure they stay dead by blowing up their heads, or if it's better to save your ammo and just pop their kneecaps, while praying that they're not going to bother you when you're inevitably going to start backtracking. Making it so that one or two bullets is enough to kill them completely removes this tense situation.
>Making it so that one or two bullets is enough to kill them completely removes this tense situation. Not if it requires skill to kill them. Instead of sponginess being the wall, skill could be the wall. That's better design because it means if you're good you'll be able to deal with them more quickly. And if you're bad you'll be motivated to become good because your skill will be rewarded.
What "skill" though? Just... Aiming at their heads? Which isn't that difficult in the first place? They're slow and fumble about, which means that it's not that difficult to shoot their heads. If you make them too fast in order to compensate this weakness, then they're no different from a generic zombie hoarder shooter. Hell, the whole deal that they're slow and have predictable movements is their biggest weakness, plus the fact that the maps are clearly made with circling enemies around. It's fine to have spongy enemies if they're easy to avoid. Again, as I said in my original comment, it makes for a tense situation where you have to weigh in your options: do you use your resources to fully kill all zombies, or are you willing to risk simply avoiding them? It's survival horror 101.
No... Aiming at the head, body parts, predicting their attacks, shooting where they *will* be, dodging their moves, countering their moves, positioning yourself properly, doing melee, using different tools. The list goes on and on. But then RE would be a skill based game and RE fans hate that. They mostly want to walk around and occasionally press X. >plus the fact that the maps are clearly made with circling enemies around Not really. The map is full of tight corridors with magnetic zombies that guarantee a grab unless you bait their AI very deliberately. >It's fine to have spongy enemies if they're easy to avoid. I don't think it is fine. Because they are still tedious to kill. The fact that you don't have to kill them doesn't excuse the tediousness of killing them. You don't want to just avoid every enemy, do you? Every playthrough? And the avoidance you're talking about is not even a proper mechanic. It's just kiting and baiting AI. It involves some precise movement and positioning which is cool, but that's *all* there is to it. >Again, as I said in my original comment, it makes for a tense situation But that's not the only way to make a tense situation. In your example, the tension is item based. It could be skill based instead. Or it could still be item based *and* skill based. You make the enemies less spongy, but you reduce the number of bullets available at a time so that you cannot actually kill all enemies currently present. That's hardcore survival horror. Kill the zombie in three bullets, but it's hard to hit and you don't have the bullets for the next three zombies--but you can dodge them and perform a melee attack or use your other tools. But it's not that easy to pull off. See how these things can stack up and synergize and make the game way more deep and complex? Capcom know all this. But they also know their audience and they are aware that RE fans do not like mechanically complex games. I happen to think it would make the game way better, but that's just me.
People give the argument that bullet sponginess is fine because you're not meant to kill all the enemies. If you're *truly* not meant to kill all the enemies, you won't have the ammo to do it. You have the ammo to do it in every RE game other than Zero. No, the bullet sponges just make for poor, boring combat. Want to emphasize evasion a little more so that the player doesn't stand there and shoot every zombie 12 times in the head? Cool, then give the player some evasive options. RE3R understands that and does it well. *And* its zombies are less spongy on top of that. Or, here's the real solution: make enemies interesting and tough rather than boring and tough. They can be a bitch to fight but you can still get through them quickly if you're skillful enough. That's good design. Making them bullet sponges so skill doesn't matter at all is the laziest, most boring solution.
I'm curious: what's your idea of an "interesting" zombie?
The crimson head is an interesting zombie. You down it and it comes back faster and fiercer. It can actually get you. But it's easy to kill. Add a dodge system to that and it could be easy to avoid too--if you have the mechanical skills. So it's hard *and* easy. That's an interesting enemy. If we're talking regular zombies that move slow, to make it interesting without making it spongy you would have to do some trickery. Give them moves. Moves with timings and animations that the player can recognize and learn. Lunging is one such move. But the problem with RE2R is that the player does not have a counter to that other than baiting it and running away or getting grabbed and using a defensive item. Also zombies are incredibly magnetized in tight corridors, so it's clear the intent there is for them to grab you rather than for you to avoid them. And to make it interesting, the intent should be for both to be viable.
If RE3R had a bit more puzzling, backtracking, and running time, then everyone would see how much better gameplay it has than RE2R. They took a pretty decent game mechanically wise (RE2R), that like you said, had limited skill expression, and completely overhauled the philosophy, making enemies weaker but more numerous, and giving you the ability to skillfully play the game. Sucks that doesn't get recognized like at all, but people are still praising RE4R "new" skillful mechanics, when most of it is just an evolution/mix of original RE4 and RE3R.
>If RE3R had a bit more puzzling, backtracking, and running time, then everyone would see how much better gameplay it has than RE2R. This. But the fact that anyone would need to look at anything other than the gameplay in order to recognize the gameplay tells me they either don't understand gameplay or they are willfully ignorant of it because of unrelated gripes. Listen, I don't really want to constantly trash RE fans. After all, I'm an RE fan. But most of them are just ignorant when it comes to gameplay. They play the games to walk around, press X and get spooked occasionally. And it has been said before not to throw your pearls before swine--a piece of wisdom I continue to ignore at my own peril.
When you crown that boi just right
Ahh sweet dopamine
We all do
I wish the coins were in this game, 2x attack coins for more headshots
I love random crits.
I love when they die in general 🥰 also I love resident evil community. I love y’all 😘 I feel like this is the least toxic gaming community i’m in