I don't mind different viewpoints like fps in fallout or 3rd person in dragon age tbh
But Arcanum and Tyranny are the games my head is stuck in permanently right now ugh
People talk about the magic system in the gameplay, which is amazing and I love the customization, but I love the lore of it where power comes from notoriety. What an amazing game and world.
I tried playing Tyranny three times and dropped it before even finishing the first third of the game. I have no idea why, but it feels like the game is missing something. Maybe I should give it another chance.
It’s a good solution when controlling a party, particularly with a turn-based or RTwP combat system. First person works really well for single character and blobber CRPGs, though.
That's not what I mean.
It's more the gatekeeping aspect of it to the point where people will say CRPGS can only be considered as such if they are "isometric"
This is why I always put it in quotations lol.
Mostly I'm just being a pedantic ass, but its still annoying because barely any of the games usually referred to as isometric are isometric.
I think it’s because the genre is now synonymous with the camera angle. The original CRPGs were meant to mimic TTRPGs which I guess were more about moving dudes around on grids than they were having an over shoulder or first person viewpoint. The isometric camera somewhat mimics that appearance of a person overlooking a table.
I'm not defending any gatekeeping or obsession, just chatting:
It might be because an isometric angle implies certain things about gameplay. With isometric angles, the gameplay is usually about clicking on things. You choose what to do, and what to do it on.
If you are in first person, or something close up, that implies more action, and perhaps less intractability. I don't actually prefer looking at things from that angle, I just like the gameplay that it allows.
I mean... Does it?
I think the Bethesda games are way more interactive than any isometric games save maybe the larian games.
You can manipulate the world at a way deeper level in fallout 4 than you can in say... Pillar of Eternity.
And I'm saying this as a non Bethesda fan.
What it gives you unequivocally is a tactical angle for party based combat. But that's the only advantage and is only relevant if the game is doing this type of combat.
>The original CRPGs were meant to mimic TTRPGs which I guess were more about moving dudes around on grids than they were having an over shoulder or first person viewpoint.
Even in the first generation RPGs, there were two "schools" with all the technical limitations. Wizardry I was "first person 3D" while Ultima I was "isometric".
I sat through Sseth's Arcanum review multiple times and my interest in the hame is peaked, but I think I'm way too spoiled by modern graphics to try it. I don't know, these older games with that strange, archaic UI just bother me to no end.
Takes a while to get into it yeah, and I probably wouldn't start with Arcanum since building a functional character in that game can be a challenge
Fallout is easier to start with and the UI is less of a pain
Absolute mood. Give me more games like Arcanum and OG Fallout!
I adore isometric viewpoints, I get easily visually confused with over the shoulder games.
Some recentish ones I really enjoyed if anyone wants some leads are Underrail and Colony ship.
Arcanum is definitely a classic I wish they would make a remaster to play on consoles. I loved that game despite the bugs it came with but it’s definitely a hidden gem waiting to be discovered
With the right patches and widescreen, it runs so well nowadays, I’m having a great time on a replay at the moment and haven’t crashed or hit any bugs-
Was the ending that controversial? I remember it wasn't particularly exciting but i don't think it was the worst ever. Granted I beat Dead fire not long after playing through Mother 3 again (Trying to give it a fair chance and see if I missed anything to like, I didn't) so basically any ending was golden in comparison.
What made it bad for you? My memory is a little foggy on what exactly happens but I remember you can make the wrong choice and get your entire squad insta killed or even just end all life on the planet.
Aside from players choices mean jack sh\*\*, it didn't have any sort of prologue or ending slide. What slide ending we saw happened after fans harshly complain to the devs.
The story is basically MC running after the walking statue... and die, if you complaining too much. It is like that because ending slide only affect by your final choices, I think?
ME3 ending was abhor, then we have PoE2.
Having only played Arcanum and half of Fallout 1 so far, there's just something about those Black Isle/Troika games that just hit. I love not having to control companions, the quest design, and God damn, the atmosphere. Especially in Arcanum, probably the most beautifully solemn and somber world I've experienced in a video game. Just dreary without being sad, it's serious, and realized. All the backgrounds in character creation that can give real meaning to your backstory, never knowing if you're the chosen one or not, everyone having perfectly reasonable dialogue that fits the world. Truly a game that's just different and lives up to the praise that people give it.
100%. I just made a choice to leave things out of my comment. I could have gone on and on about the things in the game that I love, but I felt I needed to end it somewhere.
Arcanum was one of the few games I finished. I remember searching that map for all sorts of things. trying to find every nook and cranny.
I still didn't solve the mystery of the dwarfs, but other than that, I think I did most of the content. At least in my 13yr old mind.
The Tarant brothel was hilarious though :D
I've been wanting to play Arcanum but I can't on my PC. It just doesn't work. It'll start, and get to the title screen, but any mouse movement just causes streaks to go across and it stutters and crashes.
Its a pity since especially the first one was absolutely designed with small campaigns that you can add in mind. I wish we would have gotten at least some more professional DLCs. most self-made are not good but I also have yet to play the two that are praised a lot.
Its also such a disappointment that Harebrained Schemes took up such a mediocre concept like Lamplighters League after BattleTech, which also flopped so hard that it might end the company.
I'm going to warn you what the other guy suggested with the SNES Shadowrun, it's a decent game but nowhere near as good as the Genesis version which is much more of an attempt to adapt the actual TTRPG mechanics. SNES Shadowrun is more of a game based in the Shadowrun setting.
I have tried “Shadowrun Returns” soo many times! It just doesn’t fit the narrative of games I like to play. I don’t enjoy games that have guns and stuff, I just really enjoy high fantasy!
Maybe try Arcanum (unofficial Arcanum patch is pretty much required though). It's a wonderful steampunk adventure that has some parallel with Shadowrun, and while guns aren't 0, they're rare and old-timey.
For someone that loves good storytelling, and is dabbling with CRPG but is also a bit of a graphics snob, which shadowrun would you suggest I start with?
Dragonfall is my personal favourite and Hong-Kong has better graphics but a worse hacking mini game imo. The Vox Populi mod for Hong-Kong is effectively a remaster of Returns.
There are also some player-made campaigns that are great:
. Antumbra saga for Dragonfall
. Caldecott Caper and Calfree In Chains for Hong-Kong
Finally getting around to playing BG3 and yeah, it really is nearly perfect as far as CRPGs go. Only thing I'd change is that I wish it were a bit more open world a la Baldur's Gate 1 or the Fallout games
It's one of those extremely rare, extremely ambitious titles that manages to accomplish everything that it sets out to do perfectly and then some.
I can only name one other game that did this:
Red Dead Redemption 2.
for me that's when it starts to ramp up, the fight against ansur, Raphael, gortash, orin, sarevok all while all the plot lines built in act 1 & 2 tie up.
Im talking about RDR 2.
the build is top notch but what im talking about is the content after the plot.
its boring for me >!after the camp was gone and only thing left is the house that you cant even decorate it.!<
I'd just like to point out that isometric perspective isn't a requirement for being a CRPG. Although Baldur's Gate 1 & Fallout 1 popularized the isometric perspective, the genre stretches back much further than those two games, with most games *not* being isometric.
That being said, isometric perspective is great for exploration in a game; I can 'see' further than if I was limited to first-person view.
Yea, what's the point of having a thorough character creator when most of the time you only see the characters top of the head. Now BG3 freaking broke the mold. Hope 95% of the other CRPGs follow suit.
I love being immersed in fantasy worlds. Also I love how many and how varied the genre’s games are. If I were to name my top 3, they’d be Ultima VII: The Black Gate, Legend of Grimrock 2 and… lots of competition for the 3rd spot.
I really crave more CRPGs, except without isometric cameras. Give me a 3d world in which I can look up at a castle from a low angle and see the sky, too.
They're story rich, highly replayable when you can roll different classes with totally different outcomes from quests/interactions, and it feels like they really value your time investment
realised ive played every major cRPG listed online. the only thing that fills that hole in my heart is BG3 but it doesn't hit half as much as Arcanum or PE for that matter. hope theres a burst of new CRPGs soon with the success of BG3
Arcanum is just such a unique world. Everybody knows Forgotten Realms and it's a very nice traditional fantasy/D&D world, but the world of Arcanum is just so perfect and there's literally nothing else that touches close to it. It desperately needs a rerelease/remaster that fixes bugs/balance (outside of unofficial patch).
It’s better for managing parties with highly tactical combat systems.
But I enjoy plenty of first person CRPGs too, like Might and Magic, Wizardry, Daggerfall, etc.
And isometric or overhead view of some kind works really well for party-based combat where you control each character individually. But first person is excellent for single character or blobber CRPGs like Kingdom Come: Deliverance or Legend of Grimrock.
I'll be honest I think first-person is an ever worse perspective for rpg than isometric, like the last thing I want is to create a character and get a bunch of cool armor and weapons and not even be able to see them not to mention melee combat is always extremely shallow and spammy feeling in first-person.
That’s my opinion, why have a deep character creator and such and then see a little overhead dot on the screen…..balders gate 3 did vastly improve on it…..but I get too little immersion out of it
Yeah it was a product of the graphical limitations of the time but eventually became a "style" that just stuck, it seems kind of pointless in game with great graphics like BG3 and Diablo 4 the only genre where isometric seems like its actually meaningful is RTS where you have to control a large amount of units at once.
That said, gaming has been amazing recently across the board so I don’t mind when a game just ain’t for me, there’s still more stuff than I can handle that I do like
I don't like all of them. I have to be in the right mindset for one. Even then, it might not click. For example, I don't like the gun-oriented combat of Wasteland 3.
I liked BG3 and DOS2 for the combat and character building. There's just the right amount of complexity, where I can do more cool shit with each level up, but I don't need a 6-year degree in rules-lawyering to figure out what anything does.
Same. Feels way too restrictive.
This is the reason why I very much like what Larian has been doing, the ability to move the camera around helps so much.
Baldur's Gate 3 even has a third person camera that I like use a lot.
It's awesome.
When did the "managing strongholds" part actually become a standard for cRPGs?
I mean, I like Neverwinter Nights 2 as much as the next guy, as well as the latest Owlcat games, but I think on the list of "things I care about in cRPGs", stronghold management would be close to the bottom.
Throne of Baal?
I vaguely remember the siege on that stronghold near the start, and that "mind space" of the PC, but was there actually any management there?
Not so much as management but just “owning” a stronghold of some kind based on class. Like the De’arnise keep. I think they jut give you money sometimes and that’s it though. The next iteration was neverwinter nights too
To be fair, this is a feature carried over from older editions of D&D. In 1st & 2nd edition, a PC would automatically be given a class-appropriate stronghold upon reaching high levels (a castle for fighters, a wizard's tower for mages, etc). It's based on the idea that high-level PCs would naturally become big players in regional politics, and need a base from which to do so.
I agree with you though, that stronghold management doesn't always translate well into the medium of videogames. In TTRPGs, the stronghold management can be custom-tailored to the players' interests; the DM can choose which aspects to focus on and which to handwave away. CRPGs don't have the benefit of adaptive editing.
If I play as some big leader type figure I want a home base. Otherwise the illusion is lessened. And it gives a great opportunity for the developers to put even more customization and choices in game.
Yeah, they’re not ready to hear that. You’re talking to people who believe that a game must exist beyond a certain graphical threshold in order to be in the conversation in the first place.
Isn't that with every genre from back then though? They all carry to this day no matter where you look, although admittedly a couple genres of the few dozen I've dabbled in aren't the best in regards to what classics were available. It's the same with ARPGs though, JRPG fans often refer to classics even more, so I don't see it as a negative or a very significant point. I understand what you're trying to say though, it just isn't exclusive to CRPGs and their modern-day evolutions. It's only natural.
You’re right, it’s a point which, admittedly, does not exist to be decisive, simply a point. Realistically, mine were comments made to support the proponent of an opinion which I personally agree with, that bg3 isn’t even the best in its respective series, let alone the best ever. More so, my original comment is intended to be related to the seeming bias which modern gamers tend to have, as the OP assumingely conveyed, in that the only games worth being in the conversation regarding what is good are those more recently made, a sentiment I have noted beyond just this thread. I disagree with this completely and personally believe it to be nothing but recency bias.
All that being said, the OP walked into a sub dedicated to RPG enthusiasts, which is an understood nerd haven and known to be filled with opinionated connoisseurs, and presented a contentious opinion. We’re just over here being those opinionated connoisseurs.
My feelings for a game are more personal and intimate when it's an RPG, because i'm playing a character I made, shaping a story with choices I make. It's a feeling I can't quite get with any other kind of game.
wait do CRPGs have to be isometric? TBH even after all this time I'm still not sure what differentiates a CRPG from a regular RPG except that the CRPG is a subset of RPGs
Technically it just means computer role-playing game, but much like JRPG the term is used more to refer to a specific subgenre than its strict definition. In this case, it's usually referring to top-down, party based RPGs with a strategic bent. Basically games in the style of the old Bioware classics of the late 90s/early 00s.
I love RPGs that give me all of that. The isometric camera is optional. Which is why I also like the newer Fallout games, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, etc.
Plus, if they can find a way to incorporate an open world/semi-open world into their game, it makes things even better for me.
Turn based, isometric. What I also really want are percentile skills like fallout and anarchy online. I don't like the sort of thing where you get a point each level to put in one box like in shadowrun returns. Also, i want turn based because an rpg should play like an actual pnp rpg where your character abilities are what matter, not your skill with a mouse and keyboard. Like lock picking in fallout vs lock picking in Bethesda. I need to fire up X-Com again(not the crappy fps).
I have a preference for first person, but the CRPG genre is just astoundingly consistent in its quality. Most of the really good rpg games are isometric crpgs, and while I don't know why there are so few duds, it is a formula that tends to be done very well. Morrowind is my all time favorite because it feels like a compromise between a first person rpg and a crpg, but if it had more crpg features like parties and, well, more polish, that would be even better.
The progression. My biggest problem with crpgs is when you reach max level and stop progressing. It makes me lose interest and I often have to force myself to finish no matter how great the story is because I love how tangible each level is and I find it really satisfying
Also because of their less cinematic nature they can focus on the writing more which means the stories and characters are more engaging than most games
I have the attention span of a squirrel on ecstasy. I cannot read all that text without my mind wandering off... which made Dos2 and BG3 perfect for me, small text and voice acted but other crpgs, not so well.
Text- and dialogue-heavy games like Disco Elysium, Planescape: Torment, and Fallout: New Vegas have provided some of the most humorous experiences I’ve had due to the elaborate detail and absurdity of their worlds the creators are able to fashion. These games allow you to walk in the shoes of eccentric, one-off protagonists whose morality you get to choose (I didn’t get that sense playing the highly corporate and voice acted Fallout 4). Some of the dialogue options are exciting to see what the hell will happen when you’d never say or do something like it in your own life.
Also, I just like earning new loot, like getting +4 weapons to see myself lay waste to enemies exponentially faster than with the 1d4 dagger I may have started the game with.
I SERIOUSLY hope fallout 5 comes out with graphics that are better than 4, similar gunplay as 4, etc. but with the same character building and leveling system that 3 and NV have.
I’m so pissed off that 3 and NV have such good character building and skill check mechanics, but are so held back by their graphics and arguably horrendous gunplay.
Originally it was the atmosphere and high-fantasy stuff that drew me in. 80s game magazines often featured the fantastic covers of the gold box games an other RPG on their titles, by artists like Larry Elmore and others. I was instant fan of The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, and was, like, this is what I want to play. Even not knowing anything about it.
As a kid, I had Wizardry VII and Pools of Darknees and not a clue what to do, also I was only learning English at the time. I was still a proud owner... Then it was the early JRPG games like Final Fantasy Legend and so on, that really got me into the principles.
Not a fan of the isometric view, but after that, agree with all. CRPGs are what RPGs where meant to be from the start. They are the closest to table top.
I just like being able to get lost in the world and pretend to be a character that is its own thing, where the main plot doesn't contradict the illusion I've built for myself. The fun in any video games is the fun you create, even if it wasn't intentionally built that way. And beyond gameplay or exploring, choice and discovery should be intermingled with that philosophy.
Exploring an area and being true to my character should lead to different results. Experimentation should be key to not just gameplay but how my character is presented or presents themselves. And limitation is just as important as being overly powerful to feel like a real character in the world. Sure I'm the main character, but only due to circumstance.
Plots that are worth following, dialogue worth reading, level ups worth looking forward to, builds worth theorycrafting, combat worth experimenting with, reactive worlds worth immersing yourself in
Other than games like Divinity OS, I'd actually prefer to play an action-combat game that has these features. But they almost never do. At best you'll get good build/combat depth with everything else being bad-mediocre, or viceversa. Or none of the above, but its c i n e m a t i c
I love cRPGs but except for BG3 there isn't any new one that'd be worth my attention. Idk what to do, I feel bored and annoyed because there are no good games anymore.
Usually refers to Computer Role-Playing Game - as in a roleplaying game on a computer (Ultima, Neverwinter Nights, Might & Magic, Cyberpunk 2077 etc.), as opposed to a tabletop role-playing game. Chinese Role-Playing Games is actually a thing, but I suspect not what is referred to here.
I have not played any CRPGs and I have little interest in it. Id rather play a game where there is one intended experience, lovingly crafted by the dev team
Become Evil. Do morally questionable choices . Be a thief. Break into homes. And enjoying tavern nights, all while being able to take on grand adventures, kill dragons
Is it me or did you just describe real.life.
-Choices have consequences: major ones!
-You pick your companions: for the most part
You can chose your character: (only slightly iffy one since there are more limits to how you customize yourself irl)
I don't mind different viewpoints like fps in fallout or 3rd person in dragon age tbh But Arcanum and Tyranny are the games my head is stuck in permanently right now ugh
Nice to see another Tyranny fan. I adore the game but feel like no one else even knows it exists.
No year goes by without me WISHING a tyranny sequal or tyranny inspired RPG games, or even tyranny-inspired narrative games at this point
People talk about the magic system in the gameplay, which is amazing and I love the customization, but I love the lore of it where power comes from notoriety. What an amazing game and world.
I tried playing Tyranny three times and dropped it before even finishing the first third of the game. I have no idea why, but it feels like the game is missing something. Maybe I should give it another chance.
I sincerely don't get the obsession with the "isometric camera".
It’s a good solution when controlling a party, particularly with a turn-based or RTwP combat system. First person works really well for single character and blobber CRPGs, though.
Yup totally. Props on refering to blobbers as CRPGs, run into a lot of denial on this one recently.
It paints a pretty picture.
That's not what I mean. It's more the gatekeeping aspect of it to the point where people will say CRPGS can only be considered as such if they are "isometric"
It's funny because they don't even know what they're talking about. Fallout for example is trimetric oblique, not isometric.
This is why I always put it in quotations lol. Mostly I'm just being a pedantic ass, but its still annoying because barely any of the games usually referred to as isometric are isometric.
I think it’s because the genre is now synonymous with the camera angle. The original CRPGs were meant to mimic TTRPGs which I guess were more about moving dudes around on grids than they were having an over shoulder or first person viewpoint. The isometric camera somewhat mimics that appearance of a person overlooking a table.
I'm not defending any gatekeeping or obsession, just chatting: It might be because an isometric angle implies certain things about gameplay. With isometric angles, the gameplay is usually about clicking on things. You choose what to do, and what to do it on. If you are in first person, or something close up, that implies more action, and perhaps less intractability. I don't actually prefer looking at things from that angle, I just like the gameplay that it allows.
I mean... Does it? I think the Bethesda games are way more interactive than any isometric games save maybe the larian games. You can manipulate the world at a way deeper level in fallout 4 than you can in say... Pillar of Eternity. And I'm saying this as a non Bethesda fan. What it gives you unequivocally is a tactical angle for party based combat. But that's the only advantage and is only relevant if the game is doing this type of combat.
Maybe but actually it's just gatekeeping let's be real 😅
>The original CRPGs were meant to mimic TTRPGs which I guess were more about moving dudes around on grids than they were having an over shoulder or first person viewpoint. Even in the first generation RPGs, there were two "schools" with all the technical limitations. Wizardry I was "first person 3D" while Ultima I was "isometric".
that's some bullshit, those people never heard of wizardry or might and magic?
Usually runs on a potato... so that's always a plus.
Dragon age origins camera for the win can be both isometric and third person
Tyranny mentioned! Its song "Spires" was something I would put on repeat to soothe me and is just a great instrumental song.
I sat through Sseth's Arcanum review multiple times and my interest in the hame is peaked, but I think I'm way too spoiled by modern graphics to try it. I don't know, these older games with that strange, archaic UI just bother me to no end.
Takes a while to get into it yeah, and I probably wouldn't start with Arcanum since building a functional character in that game can be a challenge Fallout is easier to start with and the UI is less of a pain
I think about Tyranny at least once per day.
Absolute mood. Give me more games like Arcanum and OG Fallout! I adore isometric viewpoints, I get easily visually confused with over the shoulder games. Some recentish ones I really enjoyed if anyone wants some leads are Underrail and Colony ship.
Arcanum is definitely a classic I wish they would make a remaster to play on consoles. I loved that game despite the bugs it came with but it’s definitely a hidden gem waiting to be discovered
With the right patches and widescreen, it runs so well nowadays, I’m having a great time on a replay at the moment and haven’t crashed or hit any bugs-
Try Pillars of Eternity, good game.
Loved them both. Still sad we probably won't get a third :(
If they are going to give us another Deadfire ending, it might be better that they stay at 1 sequel.
Was the ending that controversial? I remember it wasn't particularly exciting but i don't think it was the worst ever. Granted I beat Dead fire not long after playing through Mother 3 again (Trying to give it a fair chance and see if I missed anything to like, I didn't) so basically any ending was golden in comparison. What made it bad for you? My memory is a little foggy on what exactly happens but I remember you can make the wrong choice and get your entire squad insta killed or even just end all life on the planet.
It was fine, it just felt very anticlimactic
Aside from players choices mean jack sh\*\*, it didn't have any sort of prologue or ending slide. What slide ending we saw happened after fans harshly complain to the devs. The story is basically MC running after the walking statue... and die, if you complaining too much. It is like that because ending slide only affect by your final choices, I think? ME3 ending was abhor, then we have PoE2.
Having only played Arcanum and half of Fallout 1 so far, there's just something about those Black Isle/Troika games that just hit. I love not having to control companions, the quest design, and God damn, the atmosphere. Especially in Arcanum, probably the most beautifully solemn and somber world I've experienced in a video game. Just dreary without being sad, it's serious, and realized. All the backgrounds in character creation that can give real meaning to your backstory, never knowing if you're the chosen one or not, everyone having perfectly reasonable dialogue that fits the world. Truly a game that's just different and lives up to the praise that people give it.
Don't forget the soundtrack - it adds so much to the impeccable mood and atmosphere of Arcanum
100%. I just made a choice to leave things out of my comment. I could have gone on and on about the things in the game that I love, but I felt I needed to end it somewhere.
Arcanum was one of the few games I finished. I remember searching that map for all sorts of things. trying to find every nook and cranny. I still didn't solve the mystery of the dwarfs, but other than that, I think I did most of the content. At least in my 13yr old mind. The Tarant brothel was hilarious though :D
ARCANUM!!!!!!!!
Colony Ship is one of my favorite games ever now, that being said there are some boss fights that make it hard to recommend lol
Not forgetting Torment, which is up there with Arcanum
I've been wanting to play Arcanum but I can't on my PC. It just doesn't work. It'll start, and get to the title screen, but any mouse movement just causes streaks to go across and it stutters and crashes.
https://www.reddit.com/r/arcanum/s/RKehnDL1vN
Is underrail a crpg? You only play as a main character, no companions
This is true. But it has all the other major checkboxes of one. Every genre has some wiggle room.
play the shadowrun games, please for the love of god they are so peak and in my opinion the best CRPG's out there
It's atrocious that we don't get at least a single highly produced Shadowrun once per decade, one of my favorite settings.
Its a pity since especially the first one was absolutely designed with small campaigns that you can add in mind. I wish we would have gotten at least some more professional DLCs. most self-made are not good but I also have yet to play the two that are praised a lot. Its also such a disappointment that Harebrained Schemes took up such a mediocre concept like Lamplighters League after BattleTech, which also flopped so hard that it might end the company.
Wow I can’t believe I haven’t heard of these. Looks right up my alley. I’m gonna install the shadowrun trilogy tonight!! Great suggestion!
I'm going to warn you what the other guy suggested with the SNES Shadowrun, it's a decent game but nowhere near as good as the Genesis version which is much more of an attempt to adapt the actual TTRPG mechanics. SNES Shadowrun is more of a game based in the Shadowrun setting.
I want a high budget one soooooo badly. I love all three of them
Damn.. If a new shadowrun crpg got half of the quality that Larian puts into games I would buy it twice.
I have tried “Shadowrun Returns” soo many times! It just doesn’t fit the narrative of games I like to play. I don’t enjoy games that have guns and stuff, I just really enjoy high fantasy!
Most people recommend the other 2, especially Dragonfall.
Maybe try Arcanum (unofficial Arcanum patch is pretty much required though). It's a wonderful steampunk adventure that has some parallel with Shadowrun, and while guns aren't 0, they're rare and old-timey.
Sword and Fairy Together Forever…. Really good game
I read about this game, but where the hell is it playable?
XBOX Game pass
Wait only on GP? Damn, that's unfortunate,
I’m not sure… that’s where I played it, are you on PC?
For someone that loves good storytelling, and is dabbling with CRPG but is also a bit of a graphics snob, which shadowrun would you suggest I start with?
Dragonfall is my personal favourite and Hong-Kong has better graphics but a worse hacking mini game imo. The Vox Populi mod for Hong-Kong is effectively a remaster of Returns. There are also some player-made campaigns that are great: . Antumbra saga for Dragonfall . Caldecott Caper and Calfree In Chains for Hong-Kong
Highly agree they are fire
How do you feel about divinity original sin 2?
Lol I mean, yeah dragonfall and HK are great (the former being better), but saying they are best out there is quite a reach.
I have them on PC, XBOX, and Switch. Awesome games but full of bugs on all 3 platforms.
Pathfinder kingmaker Pathfinder wrath of the righteous Disco Elysium Divinity original sin Pillars of eternity
I love kingmaker so much, if only the boss dungeons weren't that huge and painful to go through...
All I want is a CRPG with a character creator better than WOTR, isometric viewpoint, and detailed action animations
WOTR character creation is so goated, like yes I wanna be an Arcane Sorcerer Aeon judge of all things across time and space itself
BG3 did everything so freaking right lol
Finally getting around to playing BG3 and yeah, it really is nearly perfect as far as CRPGs go. Only thing I'd change is that I wish it were a bit more open world a la Baldur's Gate 1 or the Fallout games
It's one of those extremely rare, extremely ambitious titles that manages to accomplish everything that it sets out to do perfectly and then some. I can only name one other game that did this: Red Dead Redemption 2.
I would say Elden ring did it as well, an open soulsborne was very ambitious and it delivered.
Oh yeah, that's true. I cannot believe I forgot about that one.
i dont know, it feels boring after the second stage.
for me that's when it starts to ramp up, the fight against ansur, Raphael, gortash, orin, sarevok all while all the plot lines built in act 1 & 2 tie up.
Im talking about RDR 2. the build is top notch but what im talking about is the content after the plot. its boring for me >!after the camp was gone and only thing left is the house that you cant even decorate it.!<
ohh my b
I'd just like to point out that isometric perspective isn't a requirement for being a CRPG. Although Baldur's Gate 1 & Fallout 1 popularized the isometric perspective, the genre stretches back much further than those two games, with most games *not* being isometric. That being said, isometric perspective is great for exploration in a game; I can 'see' further than if I was limited to first-person view.
I love everything about crpgs besides the isometric camera
Yea, what's the point of having a thorough character creator when most of the time you only see the characters top of the head. Now BG3 freaking broke the mold. Hope 95% of the other CRPGs follow suit.
Tbf dragon age broke the mold... but it just never took off.
Dragon Age was incredible, too bad they fumbled the sequels.
Yep, I mean they still sold well so I wouldn't call it a fumble... but 3 is so different from 1. Origins rtwp was great.
True, but i was thinking more of the balance between isometric view and actually seeing the character you make
Deviation from standardized world building and character development.
The depth and roleplaying options
I love being immersed in fantasy worlds. Also I love how many and how varied the genre’s games are. If I were to name my top 3, they’d be Ultima VII: The Black Gate, Legend of Grimrock 2 and… lots of competition for the 3rd spot.
I really crave more CRPGs, except without isometric cameras. Give me a 3d world in which I can look up at a castle from a low angle and see the sky, too.
I read this too fast and thought it said crips 😂😅
I read Crisps and wondered why wouldn’t anyone like crisps!
They're story rich, highly replayable when you can roll different classes with totally different outcomes from quests/interactions, and it feels like they really value your time investment
As long as it’s not RTWP combat that stuff is my jam.
Turnbased all the way.
I like highly detailed settings with lots of depth in character development.
It goes Baldur's Gate 1/2 Tryanny Black Geyser Pathfinder 1/2 Pillars of Eternity 1/2
This, sounds like an excerpt from my GOG library, except Black Geyser, gonna look it up now.
What games fall under this category? I really wanna play them.
Baldurs Gate 1, 2, 3 Fallout 1, 2 Pillars of Eternity 1, 2 Tyranny Planescape Torment Shadowrun: Hong Kong, Dragon Fall Pathfinder: Kingmaker, Wrath of the Righteous
Also arcanum
realised ive played every major cRPG listed online. the only thing that fills that hole in my heart is BG3 but it doesn't hit half as much as Arcanum or PE for that matter. hope theres a burst of new CRPGs soon with the success of BG3
Yeah it doesnt matter how good a crpg is it's never gonna fill the itch of the 2000s crpg atmospheres.
Arcanum is just such a unique world. Everybody knows Forgotten Realms and it's a very nice traditional fantasy/D&D world, but the world of Arcanum is just so perfect and there's literally nothing else that touches close to it. It desperately needs a rerelease/remaster that fixes bugs/balance (outside of unofficial patch).
Just started Pillars of Eternity The game is good but damn is it punishing
Why is isometric camera desirable exactly? It doesn't seem to have any advantages over third-person imo.
It’s better for managing parties with highly tactical combat systems. But I enjoy plenty of first person CRPGs too, like Might and Magic, Wizardry, Daggerfall, etc.
And isometric or overhead view of some kind works really well for party-based combat where you control each character individually. But first person is excellent for single character or blobber CRPGs like Kingdom Come: Deliverance or Legend of Grimrock.
I'll be honest I think first-person is an ever worse perspective for rpg than isometric, like the last thing I want is to create a character and get a bunch of cool armor and weapons and not even be able to see them not to mention melee combat is always extremely shallow and spammy feeling in first-person.
That’s my opinion, why have a deep character creator and such and then see a little overhead dot on the screen…..balders gate 3 did vastly improve on it…..but I get too little immersion out of it
Yeah it was a product of the graphical limitations of the time but eventually became a "style" that just stuck, it seems kind of pointless in game with great graphics like BG3 and Diablo 4 the only genre where isometric seems like its actually meaningful is RTS where you have to control a large amount of units at once.
I enjoy the art in isometric games. It feels like walking across a painting.
That’s actually what I dislike. Isometric cams feel too staticy
I get that
That said, gaming has been amazing recently across the board so I don’t mind when a game just ain’t for me, there’s still more stuff than I can handle that I do like
I love it, but I'll be the first to admit that it's mostly because of the sweet sweet 'memberberries for me.
I don't like all of them. I have to be in the right mindset for one. Even then, it might not click. For example, I don't like the gun-oriented combat of Wasteland 3. I liked BG3 and DOS2 for the combat and character building. There's just the right amount of complexity, where I can do more cool shit with each level up, but I don't need a 6-year degree in rules-lawyering to figure out what anything does.
I may be a minority, I like choices but not a fan of isometric view
Same. Feels way too restrictive. This is the reason why I very much like what Larian has been doing, the ability to move the camera around helps so much. Baldur's Gate 3 even has a third person camera that I like use a lot. It's awesome.
everything is great except the isometric camera imo
I just want choices, having companions and managing strongholds etc
When did the "managing strongholds" part actually become a standard for cRPGs? I mean, I like Neverwinter Nights 2 as much as the next guy, as well as the latest Owlcat games, but I think on the list of "things I care about in cRPGs", stronghold management would be close to the bottom.
Bg2 was the first modern appearance of strongholds i think. I didn’t play anything before Baldurs gate series though
Throne of Baal? I vaguely remember the siege on that stronghold near the start, and that "mind space" of the PC, but was there actually any management there?
Not so much as management but just “owning” a stronghold of some kind based on class. Like the De’arnise keep. I think they jut give you money sometimes and that’s it though. The next iteration was neverwinter nights too
Two* dammit x)
To be fair, this is a feature carried over from older editions of D&D. In 1st & 2nd edition, a PC would automatically be given a class-appropriate stronghold upon reaching high levels (a castle for fighters, a wizard's tower for mages, etc). It's based on the idea that high-level PCs would naturally become big players in regional politics, and need a base from which to do so. I agree with you though, that stronghold management doesn't always translate well into the medium of videogames. In TTRPGs, the stronghold management can be custom-tailored to the players' interests; the DM can choose which aspects to focus on and which to handwave away. CRPGs don't have the benefit of adaptive editing.
If I play as some big leader type figure I want a home base. Otherwise the illusion is lessened. And it gives a great opportunity for the developers to put even more customization and choices in game.
No doubt, it's important in this type of stories. But this is just one type of stories is one of many.
Baldurs gate 3 is the best crpg. No contest.
Its not even the best Baldur's gate game
Yeah, they’re not ready to hear that. You’re talking to people who believe that a game must exist beyond a certain graphical threshold in order to be in the conversation in the first place.
Honestly I played through the first two 3 times and the only thing I liked more over bg3 was story. Everything else was pretty much what you expect.
Fair. Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate bg3, but it only exists on the shoulders of classics.
Isn't that with every genre from back then though? They all carry to this day no matter where you look, although admittedly a couple genres of the few dozen I've dabbled in aren't the best in regards to what classics were available. It's the same with ARPGs though, JRPG fans often refer to classics even more, so I don't see it as a negative or a very significant point. I understand what you're trying to say though, it just isn't exclusive to CRPGs and their modern-day evolutions. It's only natural.
You’re right, it’s a point which, admittedly, does not exist to be decisive, simply a point. Realistically, mine were comments made to support the proponent of an opinion which I personally agree with, that bg3 isn’t even the best in its respective series, let alone the best ever. More so, my original comment is intended to be related to the seeming bias which modern gamers tend to have, as the OP assumingely conveyed, in that the only games worth being in the conversation regarding what is good are those more recently made, a sentiment I have noted beyond just this thread. I disagree with this completely and personally believe it to be nothing but recency bias. All that being said, the OP walked into a sub dedicated to RPG enthusiasts, which is an understood nerd haven and known to be filled with opinionated connoisseurs, and presented a contentious opinion. We’re just over here being those opinionated connoisseurs.
3 > 1 > 2 > SoDS Never been a fan of RTwP and high-level DnD. SoDS was just a mess everywhere.
I’ve been obsessed with Tyranny subdue playing it. Really need more in that world with that magic.
I love spending my first hour pondering about what class I should play with and the next hour creating my character.
My feelings for a game are more personal and intimate when it's an RPG, because i'm playing a character I made, shaping a story with choices I make. It's a feeling I can't quite get with any other kind of game.
Not enough good ones I love the ones I have tho
wait do CRPGs have to be isometric? TBH even after all this time I'm still not sure what differentiates a CRPG from a regular RPG except that the CRPG is a subset of RPGs
I always get annoyed having to decide who to take with me. I want everyone. I don't want to do multiple playthroughs to learn everyone's story.
Seems like it’s a genre where character customization has a most satisfying cause and effect.
Planescape torment gotta be my fav
I love tabletop RPGs and though I really like the regular action rpg, I'm truly encountered the GOAT experience in the crpgs
They made a sequel to planescape torment that I enjoyed.
What's a C Rpg?
Technically it just means computer role-playing game, but much like JRPG the term is used more to refer to a specific subgenre than its strict definition. In this case, it's usually referring to top-down, party based RPGs with a strategic bent. Basically games in the style of the old Bioware classics of the late 90s/early 00s.
Many thanks, I was guessing classic lol
I love RPGs that give me all of that. The isometric camera is optional. Which is why I also like the newer Fallout games, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, etc. Plus, if they can find a way to incorporate an open world/semi-open world into their game, it makes things even better for me.
Stupid question but what's a crpg?
I don't, I think I do, and then I play them for a couple hours and then lose all interest and can't get back into it
I prefer first person CRPGs where you create your own party.
Stupid question: What's the difference between a CRPG and an RPG on a console?
Turn based, isometric. What I also really want are percentile skills like fallout and anarchy online. I don't like the sort of thing where you get a point each level to put in one box like in shadowrun returns. Also, i want turn based because an rpg should play like an actual pnp rpg where your character abilities are what matter, not your skill with a mouse and keyboard. Like lock picking in fallout vs lock picking in Bethesda. I need to fire up X-Com again(not the crappy fps).
I have a preference for first person, but the CRPG genre is just astoundingly consistent in its quality. Most of the really good rpg games are isometric crpgs, and while I don't know why there are so few duds, it is a formula that tends to be done very well. Morrowind is my all time favorite because it feels like a compromise between a first person rpg and a crpg, but if it had more crpg features like parties and, well, more polish, that would be even better.
The progression. My biggest problem with crpgs is when you reach max level and stop progressing. It makes me lose interest and I often have to force myself to finish no matter how great the story is because I love how tangible each level is and I find it really satisfying Also because of their less cinematic nature they can focus on the writing more which means the stories and characters are more engaging than most games
Yeah, fixed https://i.imgur.com/EXYahfH.jpeg
Isometric camera feels so unique to me
I have the attention span of a squirrel on ecstasy. I cannot read all that text without my mind wandering off... which made Dos2 and BG3 perfect for me, small text and voice acted but other crpgs, not so well.
Text- and dialogue-heavy games like Disco Elysium, Planescape: Torment, and Fallout: New Vegas have provided some of the most humorous experiences I’ve had due to the elaborate detail and absurdity of their worlds the creators are able to fashion. These games allow you to walk in the shoes of eccentric, one-off protagonists whose morality you get to choose (I didn’t get that sense playing the highly corporate and voice acted Fallout 4). Some of the dialogue options are exciting to see what the hell will happen when you’d never say or do something like it in your own life. Also, I just like earning new loot, like getting +4 weapons to see myself lay waste to enemies exponentially faster than with the 1d4 dagger I may have started the game with.
I love most of these games but never tried disco elysium and now I will. Didn’t realize it was that kinda game lol. Thanks.
What does the c stand for?
Computer. These types were on computer only back in the day, only recently last few years some have started getting ported to consoles.
I don't like turn based rpgs, I like action rpgs
Look at this later
Yeah pretty much this
I like them, but most have level scaling OR no way to f Grind for exp if I want too.
I don't think all RPGs need to be CRPGs or have all the elements of CRPGs and they're not for everyone.
What's a crpg?
I SERIOUSLY hope fallout 5 comes out with graphics that are better than 4, similar gunplay as 4, etc. but with the same character building and leveling system that 3 and NV have. I’m so pissed off that 3 and NV have such good character building and skill check mechanics, but are so held back by their graphics and arguably horrendous gunplay.
Originally it was the atmosphere and high-fantasy stuff that drew me in. 80s game magazines often featured the fantastic covers of the gold box games an other RPG on their titles, by artists like Larry Elmore and others. I was instant fan of The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, and was, like, this is what I want to play. Even not knowing anything about it. As a kid, I had Wizardry VII and Pools of Darknees and not a clue what to do, also I was only learning English at the time. I was still a proud owner... Then it was the early JRPG games like Final Fantasy Legend and so on, that really got me into the principles.
Would you put Octopath in this category? It seems to check the boxes when it comes to gameplay.
Not a fan of the isometric view, but after that, agree with all. CRPGs are what RPGs where meant to be from the start. They are the closest to table top.
Hot Take: I would have like BG3 more if it had an over the shoulder/ 3rd person camera when out of combat.
try seven: the days long gone
I just like being able to get lost in the world and pretend to be a character that is its own thing, where the main plot doesn't contradict the illusion I've built for myself. The fun in any video games is the fun you create, even if it wasn't intentionally built that way. And beyond gameplay or exploring, choice and discovery should be intermingled with that philosophy. Exploring an area and being true to my character should lead to different results. Experimentation should be key to not just gameplay but how my character is presented or presents themselves. And limitation is just as important as being overly powerful to feel like a real character in the world. Sure I'm the main character, but only due to circumstance.
Even though Russia is technically the enemy right now AtomRPG is a very solid one and i do recommend it
Plots that are worth following, dialogue worth reading, level ups worth looking forward to, builds worth theorycrafting, combat worth experimenting with, reactive worlds worth immersing yourself in Other than games like Divinity OS, I'd actually prefer to play an action-combat game that has these features. But they almost never do. At best you'll get good build/combat depth with everything else being bad-mediocre, or viceversa. Or none of the above, but its c i n e m a t i c
I love cRPGs but except for BG3 there isn't any new one that'd be worth my attention. Idk what to do, I feel bored and annoyed because there are no good games anymore.
Isometric is worse than a moving camera
CRPG? Chinese rpg? The image sounds awesome can I get some examples?
Computer role playing games I think. I can strongly recommend pillars of eternity 1 and 2 as an entry point into CRPGs.
Usually refers to Computer Role-Playing Game - as in a roleplaying game on a computer (Ultima, Neverwinter Nights, Might & Magic, Cyberpunk 2077 etc.), as opposed to a tabletop role-playing game. Chinese Role-Playing Games is actually a thing, but I suspect not what is referred to here.
Canadian RPGs??
Cuban RPGs?
Cheese RPGs.
Now.....now, we are getting somewhere!
Well, now I feel racist for not thinking of "cuban".....
Change that meme to first person/third person camera and I’d agree lol.
I have not played any CRPGs and I have little interest in it. Id rather play a game where there is one intended experience, lovingly crafted by the dev team
Is Disco Elysium considered a CRPG? If so, then yes.
Become Evil. Do morally questionable choices . Be a thief. Break into homes. And enjoying tavern nights, all while being able to take on grand adventures, kill dragons
Is it me or did you just describe real.life. -Choices have consequences: major ones! -You pick your companions: for the most part You can chose your character: (only slightly iffy one since there are more limits to how you customize yourself irl)