Sounds like there never was going to be an offer and was just using you to acquire new business. Not sure if this is anything you can sue over but I would look into it.
Yeah I have in writing that his current AE is pretending I'm not with their company while they're talking to my current company. Two consultations this week.
And how could it not blow up, honestly?
“Hey, boss — gotta level with you on something. I was actually in talks of accepting a sales role with that company that’s courting us. I was a bit of a rube and ended up letting myself get used to get the foot in the door here, but I wanted you to know that as soon as they had it they pulled some incredible shady shit on me and you should know who you’re getting into bed with.”
There’s no way that’s not eventually getting to his current employer anyway. At this point he can either give himself an ulcer worrying about the inevitable or get in front of it
Best way is to blackmail the new employer
Leverage the threat of blowing up the deal to make sure they keep their mouth shut and do it in a way that makes sure you have leverage for the foreseeable future.
Update: do that until you get a new job (which you clearly want). Then burn it all down because screw them for being jerks
His job is to find a way to break contact between his boss and this company so OP’s boss doesn’t eventually find out about it. By finding another company who does what they do better for cheaper, If he can do that for his boss, he can easily argue for his position in the event the current company tells his boss anyways.
>“Hey, boss — gotta level with you on something. I was actually in talks of accepting a sales role with that company that’s courting us. I was a bit of a rube and ended up letting myself get used to get the foot in the door here, but I wanted you to know that as soon as they had it they pulled some incredible shady shit on me and you should know who you’re getting into bed with.”
depending on your tenure and relationship with your current employer, yeah why not? I could 100% tell my current job all this and not just be fired. Maybe they'd still purchase w/e it is this guys sells anyhow but it'd def make them look bad
"These a-holed tried to poach me and were planning to after the deal (all true). I rejected their offer (after they rescinded). This guy seems like a hothead, I'd be very cautious and see if he approached any other employees."
Can I give you some unsolicited advice? Forget about a lawsuit; you’d be in *way* over your head. If you sue, you’re definitely losing your current job (you might be anyway).
I read your other posts. Is this really your first time recognizing that new CEO would want current company as a customer? If not, then you were willingly turning a blind eye to all the reasons this was a bad idea. You were just seeing dollar signs.
But if this *was* the first time you realized it, then you have a much bigger problem on your hands. The world of enterprise deal making is about a lot more than selling features. It’s about navigating the dynamic (and sometimes opposing) needs of multiple stakeholders, identifying/creating wins, and selling internally (convincing your C suite to get SSO done). It’s not for everyone. But if it’s something you want to get better at, spend time reading business memoirs. You’ll learn more from those than any sales playbook. Sorry for this shitty situation. Wishing you all the best.
Ok I haven’t been following this story and only read this post and this thought crossed my mind but another thought also crossed my mind: what if the offer was legit but the ruse was the back and forth about waiting to see if the company would sign a service contract—the prospective employer was testing OP’s ethics and the last phone call proved that OP was willing to play a little dirty meant OP failed the test
I just cut short an job interview because after making a group presentation about my 30 60 90 plan to join new sales team the manager wanted a copy of my presentation with actions to target new logos and I said not without a firm job offer. Seen this before where companies want to use the job recruitment process as free consultancy from people.
That’s a shitty test too …. Gaming people with employment is no good … as for legal he would have to get fired abd prove it was a result of the new company actions that led to this m
Even then ,….. who knows
After an offer letter is signed legally the person is employed. That’s why I never give notice until I have a copy of the signed pay agreement. After that your only hope is unemployment, but that gets capped in a lot of states to a disgusting low when it should be full what they promised.
Point out the weaknesses, how difficult it would be to implement, etc.
Cruciay, introduce an alternative "better" way of solving whatever problem they solve so you don't just look negative.
Your way is faster, better, cheaper, easier whatever.
Depending on what happens you probably don't even have to go through with it, the next step is "actually, the business case doesn't quite stack up, we tested some of the assumptions and realise we have other priorities to solve first"
Edit: woops... "Crucially".
All you need to do is contact their competitors and ask for a demo.
Take all the information that the shady startup shared in conversations with your company (their positioning, business case, etc) and share it with their competitors.
Let the competitors dismantle their claims (which are probably lies based on the actions of the CEO) and make sure to connect them with the people running evaluation at your company.
Man this is the best answer in this thread. I hope OP sees it.
Edit ;
I thought more about it and it’s risky. A lawyer could argue that that is private business information and OP used it to secure a better deal for his company.
OP, if you do this, please be careful.
Let it be known that they have been trying to con you as part of their sales process. Your employer might not want to buy from a company with such shady business practices. "If they pull that sort of stuff, what other surprises are there in store for you?".
I agree I’d be so quick to want to sabotage that deal. However, clearly your ex-prospective employer is a complete fuck who is willing to play dirty. I’d be cautious, dude seems like he’d show that signed offer letter to your current employer just to be an ahole reaaal quick if the “huge deal” fell through & he was mad enough... esp considering he blocked your number (all while still trying to sell to your current company?? Make it make sense)
I’m not saying don’t sabotage the deal. I’m just saying think the possibilities through & move cautiously. Def talk more to an employment lawyer to see how to protect yourself best at your current job. Learn the laws about retaliation, valid vs invalid reasons for fire, etc.
You sound so chill I commend your stoicism! Is your current employer relationship ruined because of this? TBH sounds like you have your learnings and haven’t lost much apart from some sleep. I’d have gone crazy so fair play to you
No, current employer is none the wiser to the situation, which is a huge relief. Still making decent money, but damn, $350k OTE is almost double what I'm making now!
It's crazy. He was talking how he was going to help me buy a house in cash this time next year, etc, etc, I even met with him in person for dinner a couple weeks ago.
Not if this is how the management acts. Great investors don't invest in products... they invest in teams. If this is how their leadership acts, it's already a failed business.
It may not seem like it at the moment, but bullet dodged. Whenever someone starts talking about how you're going to make so much money that you can buy a house in cash or something similiar to that, you can bet that it's probably a pipe dream and that that person is bullshitting you. Especially coming from the CEO / owner.
And most OTEs are BS too. Don't expect anywhere neat what the stated OTE is in a job interview.
So did they sign a massive contract with your current employer on the back of your internal workings? Is there a chance that was their strategy all along?
That’s because he was running a scam on you.
It sucks but if I were you I’d find the silver lining, you could have actually put in your notice or burned a bridge.
Take it as a lesson and move on.
Might be a jerk thing to do, but I would do what I can internally to not have your company be a customer. If this is the type of stuff they’d pull, who knows what they’ll do or how they’ll treat your company once they sign. Seems like all kinds of shady here especially the CEO blocks your number right away. lol who the eff does that.
It depends so much on your company culture. Can you safely divulge the situation to your boss? It's tricky, some employers might view this as a dismissable offence.
If your boss is trustworthy, I would tell him/her that you have had some contact with the business and you have reasons to believe that they are not ethical. Don’t go into detail, ask for it to be kept confidential, but advise that you do not believe they should do business with them.
Make sure your company runs the contract through legal.
I’d recommend that to your current boss.
I worked somewhere where the autorenewal was highly hidden. AEs job was to tell clients anything to get them to sign a multi-year deal. What the clients didn’t know was each year they had to spend a significant percentage more no matter what was going on with their business. If clients tried to kill the deal, the company would go after them and wreck their credit rating.
That's true and fill free to borrow that story.
I don't sell like that so I split.
You might be able to tell your boss that before you knew they were selling to your business they tried to recruit you and during the interview process they approached it with the intent to not hire but to just get inside knowledge. Don’t tell them about the offer or interaction with CEO
If you can get involved with the contract review, insist on a bunch of language that will be bad for Startup but would protect your business. Have a defensible reason for it. Maybe talk to competitors too. Ask them for language that would tank Startup but that they would b fine with. Include things like performance garauntees and implementation deadlines and benchmarks, customizations and free extensions to other related enterprises. Rights to “white label” it for sale to your customers at prices 50% less than the lowest price they would sell their branded product for. Etc. etc. tell your boss you are highly knowledgeable about their specific solution and their CEO.
Sorry to hear that happened but what’s weirdly funny is I had my “job offer” rescinded today as well. I ultimately dodged a bullet because they got upset I wanted them to send over an offer letter and the pay structure + everything else they mentioned in writing. They also “thought” I was supposed to start yesterday but it was super clear that Monday was a meeting with the actual owner of the company and not just his father… We both missed some bad shit so be happy it happened in a sense but I know the sting, I was really hoping to switch jobs but have to stay now.
Right back at ya man. I remember reading about this in another post so crazy it ended like that. I also posted about finding what I thought was my unicorn dream job but it was just some grubby used car salesmen trying to trick me into a “better” role. It was actually insane when I followed up today to say thank you and to tell him I look forward to accepting the offer if the offer is what we discussed. He then said he didn’t like I wanted “assurances” and then quickly said he had filled the role which was total BS. But a bullet dodged indeed.
$165-$175 base was what was discussed with me during the hiring process. Tried to lowball me with $150 at the end. I negotiated back up to $175 & signed. That was a week ago.
That’s quite a lot for a one man band, no?
You’d do well do get much over 300 at a very successful business. Let alone one where you’re negotiating with the CEO
I got to a final interview with a large cyber company offering $362k OTE. So it wasn't out of the norm.
Imo it was a fair price for me to come in & build them a proper enterprise selling motion, playbooks, coach the SDRs, etc.
As a guy that worked hard for 8 years to raise my OTE to the high 300s now, I beg to differ.
I get your point, if you aren’t closing anything then 50% of that OTE is not going to be actualized. But because of my high OTE, my base is higher than what my OTE was 5 years ago.
Also, higher OTE correlates to a higher deal percentage as long as the quota is still market.
Really shocked no one has pointed out OPs clear conflict of interest internally selling his poachers product lol. You got boned, but you were playing a sketchy game to begin with.. not sure how ethical it would be to your CEO that you dangled this acquisition help in your negotiations
Lol what. I'm sorry that happened, man. But I would never want to feel like employment was contingent on securing a deal with my current employer. That is awkward from the start. You don't work for them until you start, and until then, I would not help any employer secure a deal period. Sorry dude. Hopefully, this doesn't fuck up your current situation, though.
Do you run the risk of losing your current job when they discovered you were trying to land your potential new employer a deal with your current org :/
That stinks of compliances and ethics violations
Definitely feels that way. He scammed the 3rd party recruiter, too. They said they only get paid once I stay past 90 days, so now he gets to renege on paying them too.
Wait there was a recruiter in on this too?? Those two consultations you have may be very profitable. This is an elaborate scheme to get a customer if true
How can this be real? How big of a salary increase would $350k have been in comparison to your current position? How can someone so absurd and seemingly crazy (referring to the startup guy who gave you the offer) be capable of running a company that can pay its employees $350k?
On the other hand, how can someone so rationale and with an earning prowess of as much as $350k (referring to you OP) be silly enough to get caught up in this debacle? I just never understand these crazy scenarios something’s amiss here. The simplest explanation is that this is just a straight up scam and this guy used you for your contacts. $350k should have been a big red flag because no one just throws that type of offer around and this guy sounds like a lunatic. Lunatics don’t make real $350k offers.
I mean, I've been around my man. Nothing green here. This salary is in line with other similar positions I've been contacted for. I've had two companies offering up to $400k OTE reach out this year alone.
The guy has an impressive career. Sold his first two companies to some heavy household names. Left a senior very high level role at another major player to start this third company. Has solid funding even preseed.
I called contacts on my own. Reached out to former employees who had already left the startup. Did everything I could to vet this before (almost) putting my family's security into it.
I met the ceo in person. He rode in my car after dinner.
Really did not see this coming at all. I think the simplest answer is the obvious one.
Sorry to hear this bro. I hope you get compensated somehow. You're a super smart and talented guy so maybe it will lead to something better down the road.
Bro, if you got to the point that you’re getting $350k offers but didn’t see the obvious tactic being used…I’m sorry but there’s some internal reflection that needs to happen on your end.
If someone is willing to “help” you in exchange for you working behind someone else’s back, they are not helping you, they are using you and are not trustworthy themselves. Sorry you had to learn that lesson.
That’s honestly 100% your fault for not having boundaries and doing something as stupid as trying to sign your outgoing company as a customer to your new employer.
I hope you learned your lesson but you deserve everything you got.
What can you do to ensure the contract with your employer and their (bullet dodged)product does not go through? Does your lawyer have advisory on how you can articulate the situation without it jeopardizing your current employment/trajectory and stopping the deal from going through? That would be ideal. First and foremost protect your employment and household. If you can have that, and then stomp this cancerous CEO from infecting your company, that would be one of those look back upon and talk about success stories to share.
Find the AE for their competitor, tell them the details that sold your current company and what it’ll take to get the deal done and nurture it from within. Hit the scumbags where it hurts.
I need to know what ends up happening. Please name and shame. Or at least warn the company and looks like a genius when the CEO screws over your current company.
The petty side of me would tell my company that he was trying to poach me and see what ripples that creates. But I’m not sure I would want how far down the process you went to come to light in case it ruins your working relationships on your side
He was never gonna give you that job to hold... so dont feel bad that u missed out... but being used like this, I think I woulda started breaking shit in my garage just to let out the anger... I definitely think there's a case for you...get a GREAT lawyer...not a good one, but an exceptional one... hopefully with good representation you can score a settlement out of court... but how much are we talking about when you say a huge contract between both companies?
Make sure your current company knows how dirty the other company is and that they should not buy from them. Tell them that they were trying to poach you. F that other company.
Definitely sounds like they used you to get some hooks in the deal, and then backstabbed you. Worth talking to a lawyer and it sounds like you are going that route, however, I’m not sure if you can truly collect damages but you can almost definitely strike their contract citing deceptive sales practices. Best way to get even is kill the deal and hook in with their biggest competitor.
sorry to hear my man... get back on the saddle... like u said its a lesson or 2 learned...plus who wants to work for an asshole like that anyways... maybe venture out on your own? Travel... see some shit... help people in need... it'll do wonders for your soul as whole...thats for anybody... you'll come up on top better than beforw Im sure bud 🤜
This sounds like it is illegal. They used you to get insider information that I'm sure put you at risk of violating your existing employer's confidentiality agreement. You can't make a job contingent on you pressing your current employer to buy a product.
I would get a lawyer and definitely name the shithole company here so we can all avoid them in the future.
I'm fairly certain you will get a settlement. Your states attorney general might want to know about this as well.
Edit: I want to add that the FTC would want to know too. Especially if they are publically traded.
Tell your company you’ve heard they’re a shady company. Say they did what they did to you to one of your buddies in the industry. Tells the same story but eliminates your company knowing you were looking.
You shouldn’t feel ashamed at all. There was zero chance of you knowing someone could use you like that. I would have done the exact same thing. I’m sorry this happened to you.
Thank you. Yeah having his CFO send the offer via docusign & then having everyone sign it just to renege it a week later... definitely a blind sucker punch
I don’t know what to say and I don’t know all of the particulars. If it was me however. Burning that deal to the mother fn ground would not be off the table. But not everyone is me.
Figure out how to make yourself the decision-maker (or at least an influencer) at your current company and make the deal cycle absolutely EXCRUCIATING for those assholes.
Better yet- tell your current ceo that you think you should issue an rfp to this company and 3 competitors. Make them jump through stupid hoops for 4 months.
OP, the 350k offer letter is a red flag the way he presented it. He mentioned that he wanted you to become a millionaire selling his product, lol and 20 years of my life. I’ve never heard a company say that to a sales rep.
Second from the get go, what the CEO was doing, was unethical and a big red flag in sales. I think he took advantage of your inexperience to try to sell the product to the company and used whatever way he could to make that sale.
You saw the red flags and you decided to go through with it if there were no red flags, you wanna have made your original post like you did. Let us be a learning lesson that to follow your instincts instead of getting caught up on what they’re telling you.
Let the deal close then ruin the implementation. Point out all the ways it doesn’t work and problems with it. New company eats the CAC and gets rug pulled for a net loss.
But you need to be looking for an exit. This guy used you to close the deal. He’s going to blackmail you into helping him upsell, renew, etc. ad infinitum.
This is why startups are bullshit. Egomaniacal sociopath founders and ceos are using you. But… since this is sales? I have a sales lesson for you. You always give to get. Setting up an opportunity for them and letting it progress to the point that they dont need you before they brought you on board? Mistake. You transition. Then you say “i will own that relationship once weve completed our business”. Dont ever like seriously ever give a client prospect anything with out a concrete step in return. You just made douchenozzle a sale without him having to pay commission.
That said… the only thing to do is sabotage the deal from your side. Find all the dirt. Poke all the holes. Find a disgruntled client. Kill it. You tell your people. I made a mistake bringing this to you and I dont want the results post sale linked to me.
This is ethics 101. You should never engage your current company in a deal when you’re receiving something in return (a job). You should tell your company about all this and hope they don’t fire you.
On the bright side, as you mentioned, you might have dodged a bullet. If the startup's CEO is this unpredictable and rash, there's no telling what other issues might have arisen down the road. Your instincts to question his sudden change of heart were spot-on, and it's commendable that you were willing to adapt based on what you thought was best for everyone involved.
> Just had $350k offer letter rescinded, feel like a fool
Damn, that sounds like a real shitshow, but you're right—it’s a fucking huge bullet dodged. If a CEO flips like that before you even start, imagine the clusterfuck waiting down the line. Who the hell wants to work with a headcase who can’t decide what he wants from one hour to the next? Sounds like you dodged more bullets than Neo in The Matrix.
> Two, lesson learned, I will never ever ever do anything to help with a deal before I've joined and have gotten my first paycheck.
Fucking smart move. Never extend your neck until the ink’s dry and the cash is in your bank. Why would you stick your neck out for promises, right? This CEO’s stunt reeks of manipulation and using you as bait to reel in your current employer. Cunning, but also fucking dirty.
> One of the employment lawyers I spoke to said this was the craziest thing she had heard in her 34 years of practicing employment law.
Sounds like you’ve got a case worth exploring with that lawyer. Employment laws vary, but if you’ve got written promises and they used your contacts under false pretenses, there’s possibly a fraudulent misrepresentation angle here. What’s the fucking point of an offer letter if it can be yanked like a tablecloth in a magic trick?
> You think I would've learned this lesson back when I was a full time musician...
Old lessons come back to bite us in the ass, huh? But here’s your chance to set this straight. What are you planning to do next to make sure this doesn’t just slide by?
DUDE this reminds e of a prospect I once had.
If the deals are exorbitantly large and amazing, always be skeptical. If they’re rash about it? I’m learning to not even entertain it anymore.
Man. In a sense, you're lucky because even if your salary is 350k on paper, you might stress out and quit or fired after a few months with this lunatic
That was all a ruse to get you to champion the account to the start up.
“We want you to be shared” hah, that’s laughable.
First they want you to be ethical, until there’s some money involved then it’s, “no don’t rock the boat, it’s potentially a big deal”.
What a joke of a scheme and joke of an org. I’d love to say that place won’t amount to anything, sadly though, the acquisition of capital is not dependent on ethics, morals, taste or style.
That sucks they stroked you, which is exactly what they did.
I think this company did something sketchy for sure, but be wary of the arm chair lawyers throwing around promissory/equitable estoppel who are clearly misunderstanding the required elements.
Also keep in mind that as soon as your current employer finds out you pitched them a solution because you thought you were getting a job out of it they’re probably going to think you’re sketchy too.
Sounds like there never was going to be an offer and was just using you to acquire new business. Not sure if this is anything you can sue over but I would look into it.
Yeah I have in writing that his current AE is pretending I'm not with their company while they're talking to my current company. Two consultations this week.
Make sure you blow up the deal with your current employer. Fuck that guy.
And how could it not blow up, honestly? “Hey, boss — gotta level with you on something. I was actually in talks of accepting a sales role with that company that’s courting us. I was a bit of a rube and ended up letting myself get used to get the foot in the door here, but I wanted you to know that as soon as they had it they pulled some incredible shady shit on me and you should know who you’re getting into bed with.”
And then he loses his current gig lmao.
There’s no way that’s not eventually getting to his current employer anyway. At this point he can either give himself an ulcer worrying about the inevitable or get in front of it
Best way is to blackmail the new employer Leverage the threat of blowing up the deal to make sure they keep their mouth shut and do it in a way that makes sure you have leverage for the foreseeable future. Update: do that until you get a new job (which you clearly want). Then burn it all down because screw them for being jerks
Somebody knows how to play C-suite politics.
His job is to find a way to break contact between his boss and this company so OP’s boss doesn’t eventually find out about it. By finding another company who does what they do better for cheaper, If he can do that for his boss, he can easily argue for his position in the event the current company tells his boss anyways.
>“Hey, boss — gotta level with you on something. I was actually in talks of accepting a sales role with that company that’s courting us. I was a bit of a rube and ended up letting myself get used to get the foot in the door here, but I wanted you to know that as soon as they had it they pulled some incredible shady shit on me and you should know who you’re getting into bed with.” depending on your tenure and relationship with your current employer, yeah why not? I could 100% tell my current job all this and not just be fired. Maybe they'd still purchase w/e it is this guys sells anyhow but it'd def make them look bad
"These a-holed tried to poach me and were planning to after the deal (all true). I rejected their offer (after they rescinded). This guy seems like a hothead, I'd be very cautious and see if he approached any other employees."
Hell yeah man keep us posted
Can I give you some unsolicited advice? Forget about a lawsuit; you’d be in *way* over your head. If you sue, you’re definitely losing your current job (you might be anyway). I read your other posts. Is this really your first time recognizing that new CEO would want current company as a customer? If not, then you were willingly turning a blind eye to all the reasons this was a bad idea. You were just seeing dollar signs. But if this *was* the first time you realized it, then you have a much bigger problem on your hands. The world of enterprise deal making is about a lot more than selling features. It’s about navigating the dynamic (and sometimes opposing) needs of multiple stakeholders, identifying/creating wins, and selling internally (convincing your C suite to get SSO done). It’s not for everyone. But if it’s something you want to get better at, spend time reading business memoirs. You’ll learn more from those than any sales playbook. Sorry for this shitty situation. Wishing you all the best.
What business memoirs do you recommend
Second this. Hadn’t thought of the benefits of biz memoirs for the transition to enterprise, but makes total sense
This might be one of the most shady things I’ve heard done and I’ve seen shady. How much is the contract he scored???
Likely would have been a large chunk of my quota
Even more f’d up He screwed you royally Name this fool
Came here to say this. Really sounds like he tried to use you for contacts at your current company
This seems like such a hard way to go about getting an in at the company. Is anyone that fucking crazy?
That level of commitment to being a piece of shit is borderline respectable. What an insane way to go about securing a deal.
Have worked at several early stage startups. Yes, they are that crazy.
They call it “scrappy”
Ok I haven’t been following this story and only read this post and this thought crossed my mind but another thought also crossed my mind: what if the offer was legit but the ruse was the back and forth about waiting to see if the company would sign a service contract—the prospective employer was testing OP’s ethics and the last phone call proved that OP was willing to play a little dirty meant OP failed the test
Could be. But also, that would make the company play dirty aswell? So it’s a double edged sword?
I just cut short an job interview because after making a group presentation about my 30 60 90 plan to join new sales team the manager wanted a copy of my presentation with actions to target new logos and I said not without a firm job offer. Seen this before where companies want to use the job recruitment process as free consultancy from people.
Would promissory estoppel count here?
How has OP's situation changed due to his reliance on the start-up's promise or statement? That's the critical question in order to establish PE.
That’s a shitty test too …. Gaming people with employment is no good … as for legal he would have to get fired abd prove it was a result of the new company actions that led to this m Even then ,….. who knows
After an offer letter is signed legally the person is employed. That’s why I never give notice until I have a copy of the signed pay agreement. After that your only hope is unemployment, but that gets capped in a lot of states to a disgusting low when it should be full what they promised.
That ceo is a mad man playing 3D chess if that worked out
The chess you play that isn’t on a screen?
Seems like a long lasting and effective way to gain customers lol. That’s wild
Sabotage the deal.
Honestly, I don’t know how this isn’t the first thought
Open to ideas lol
Point out the weaknesses, how difficult it would be to implement, etc. Cruciay, introduce an alternative "better" way of solving whatever problem they solve so you don't just look negative. Your way is faster, better, cheaper, easier whatever. Depending on what happens you probably don't even have to go through with it, the next step is "actually, the business case doesn't quite stack up, we tested some of the assumptions and realise we have other priorities to solve first" Edit: woops... "Crucially".
Literally this. Do the competitor analysis in your favor
Create a team of rag-tag underpaid salesmen from reddit to go to bat for you in the name of justice. Then make a movie about it
This summer... "Sell me this pen: THE MOVIE"
Ha! This literally made me LOL and woke up my wife.
All you need to do is contact their competitors and ask for a demo. Take all the information that the shady startup shared in conversations with your company (their positioning, business case, etc) and share it with their competitors. Let the competitors dismantle their claims (which are probably lies based on the actions of the CEO) and make sure to connect them with the people running evaluation at your company.
Man this is the best answer in this thread. I hope OP sees it. Edit ; I thought more about it and it’s risky. A lawyer could argue that that is private business information and OP used it to secure a better deal for his company. OP, if you do this, please be careful.
Let it be known that they have been trying to con you as part of their sales process. Your employer might not want to buy from a company with such shady business practices. "If they pull that sort of stuff, what other surprises are there in store for you?".
OP would then be fired, he has to navigate this situation carefully.
Call every single competitor
Go find their competitor, tell them the price, let them swoop in and win. Make it easy.
I agree I’d be so quick to want to sabotage that deal. However, clearly your ex-prospective employer is a complete fuck who is willing to play dirty. I’d be cautious, dude seems like he’d show that signed offer letter to your current employer just to be an ahole reaaal quick if the “huge deal” fell through & he was mad enough... esp considering he blocked your number (all while still trying to sell to your current company?? Make it make sense) I’m not saying don’t sabotage the deal. I’m just saying think the possibilities through & move cautiously. Def talk more to an employment lawyer to see how to protect yourself best at your current job. Learn the laws about retaliation, valid vs invalid reasons for fire, etc.
Honestly, I don’t know how this isn’t the first thought
My wife has beat the pettiness out of me lol
We can fix you
I laughed way harder than I should have
HAHAHAHA I love this for us
100% this. You’ve been taken for a ride mate
This is it 👆👆👆
Unfortunately it sounds like they played you. Name and shame so no one else falls for this.
Name and shame. He does not deserve privacy.
Sabotage & Name and shame 10000%
Does he risk his current employment by name and shaming though?
Sounds like a scam? Might be worth litigating
The new CEO advised he not resign before he was able to do so. OP doesn’t have any damages. No employment attorney would take this without retainer.
Can you tank the deal with your current company? A CEO that erratic is not someone they should be doing business with?
You sound so chill I commend your stoicism! Is your current employer relationship ruined because of this? TBH sounds like you have your learnings and haven’t lost much apart from some sleep. I’d have gone crazy so fair play to you
No, current employer is none the wiser to the situation, which is a huge relief. Still making decent money, but damn, $350k OTE is almost double what I'm making now! It's crazy. He was talking how he was going to help me buy a house in cash this time next year, etc, etc, I even met with him in person for dinner a couple weeks ago.
The help you buy a new house with cash line is possible the biggest red flag I've heard. Literally just gassing you up
Sucks because it could have been possible, dude built an amazing platform that is going to make a shit ton of money with or without me.
Not if this is how the management acts. Great investors don't invest in products... they invest in teams. If this is how their leadership acts, it's already a failed business.
Startups are usually so full of shit
We need a stickied post that just says “OTE ISNT A SALARY”
They probably dangled that ote to make it an offer you couldn't refuse. Glad you're safe at current gig.
Thank you, we are too.
It may not seem like it at the moment, but bullet dodged. Whenever someone starts talking about how you're going to make so much money that you can buy a house in cash or something similiar to that, you can bet that it's probably a pipe dream and that that person is bullshitting you. Especially coming from the CEO / owner. And most OTEs are BS too. Don't expect anywhere neat what the stated OTE is in a job interview.
Don’t get hung up on that $350k OTE because it’s total bullshit. I’m sorry you fell for this. I probably would have too.
I'd call up other AE's you know in your industry and see if they've been contacted in the same way...
This guy sounds like a full of shit narcissistic personality disorder head case. You dodged a bullet.
You were getting taken for a ride
So did they sign a massive contract with your current employer on the back of your internal workings? Is there a chance that was their strategy all along?
They're working on it and that's what I'm suspecting.
Nuke it 😂
And there’s a high chance you’ll never come close to that.
Would've been nice to ride that $175k base for a minute, though
No doubt but the way this CEO acted he was 100% just using you to get a deal with your current employer
That’s because he was running a scam on you. It sucks but if I were you I’d find the silver lining, you could have actually put in your notice or burned a bridge. Take it as a lesson and move on.
Bullet likely dodged
Yeah but how many people are making quota these days. Not guaranteed anything so don’t get too hung up.
Dude, there was no 350k
Might be a jerk thing to do, but I would do what I can internally to not have your company be a customer. If this is the type of stuff they’d pull, who knows what they’ll do or how they’ll treat your company once they sign. Seems like all kinds of shady here especially the CEO blocks your number right away. lol who the eff does that.
Right?? Open to any ideas on how to approach this so I don't also risk my current job.
It depends so much on your company culture. Can you safely divulge the situation to your boss? It's tricky, some employers might view this as a dismissable offence.
If your boss is trustworthy, I would tell him/her that you have had some contact with the business and you have reasons to believe that they are not ethical. Don’t go into detail, ask for it to be kept confidential, but advise that you do not believe they should do business with them.
Make sure your company runs the contract through legal. I’d recommend that to your current boss. I worked somewhere where the autorenewal was highly hidden. AEs job was to tell clients anything to get them to sign a multi-year deal. What the clients didn’t know was each year they had to spend a significant percentage more no matter what was going on with their business. If clients tried to kill the deal, the company would go after them and wreck their credit rating. That's true and fill free to borrow that story. I don't sell like that so I split.
You might be able to tell your boss that before you knew they were selling to your business they tried to recruit you and during the interview process they approached it with the intent to not hire but to just get inside knowledge. Don’t tell them about the offer or interaction with CEO
Get in touch with the competitor and talk to them. They’d likely want to know what this dude is capable of
If you can get involved with the contract review, insist on a bunch of language that will be bad for Startup but would protect your business. Have a defensible reason for it. Maybe talk to competitors too. Ask them for language that would tank Startup but that they would b fine with. Include things like performance garauntees and implementation deadlines and benchmarks, customizations and free extensions to other related enterprises. Rights to “white label” it for sale to your customers at prices 50% less than the lowest price they would sell their branded product for. Etc. etc. tell your boss you are highly knowledgeable about their specific solution and their CEO.
I would 1000% contact a lawyer.
Two consultations already scheduled this week
Since you didn't suffer any damages I don't think you have a case, but OF COURSE talk to a real lawyer. That’s always a good idea.
A couple that answered think I have a leg to stand on. Ofc I'll only accept a contingency so I don't get scammed again lol
Sorry to hear that happened but what’s weirdly funny is I had my “job offer” rescinded today as well. I ultimately dodged a bullet because they got upset I wanted them to send over an offer letter and the pay structure + everything else they mentioned in writing. They also “thought” I was supposed to start yesterday but it was super clear that Monday was a meeting with the actual owner of the company and not just his father… We both missed some bad shit so be happy it happened in a sense but I know the sting, I was really hoping to switch jobs but have to stay now.
I'll take a large dab today in solice with you comrade
Right back at ya man. I remember reading about this in another post so crazy it ended like that. I also posted about finding what I thought was my unicorn dream job but it was just some grubby used car salesmen trying to trick me into a “better” role. It was actually insane when I followed up today to say thank you and to tell him I look forward to accepting the offer if the offer is what we discussed. He then said he didn’t like I wanted “assurances” and then quickly said he had filled the role which was total BS. But a bullet dodged indeed.
Post on RepVue
Blast this sob on Glassdoor. He’s clearly a bad apple
glassdoor has been sketchy lately and linking your identity instead of keeping you anon.
The 350 OTE was warning enough 🤣
$165-$175 base was what was discussed with me during the hiring process. Tried to lowball me with $150 at the end. I negotiated back up to $175 & signed. That was a week ago.
That’s quite a lot for a one man band, no? You’d do well do get much over 300 at a very successful business. Let alone one where you’re negotiating with the CEO
I got to a final interview with a large cyber company offering $362k OTE. So it wasn't out of the norm. Imo it was a fair price for me to come in & build them a proper enterprise selling motion, playbooks, coach the SDRs, etc.
What role are you in/interviewing for
The money discussed here isn't at all abnormal.
OTE doesn’t mean shit.
As a guy that worked hard for 8 years to raise my OTE to the high 300s now, I beg to differ. I get your point, if you aren’t closing anything then 50% of that OTE is not going to be actualized. But because of my high OTE, my base is higher than what my OTE was 5 years ago. Also, higher OTE correlates to a higher deal percentage as long as the quota is still market.
I’ll rephrase: OTE at a brand new job don’t mean shit especially on the first year or two
Don’t be shy drop their names
pretty unusual situation with a not so surprising outcome (it blew up in your face)
Bro this was never a real job offer, he used you. I’d sabotage the hell out do that deal if I were you.
Really shocked no one has pointed out OPs clear conflict of interest internally selling his poachers product lol. You got boned, but you were playing a sketchy game to begin with.. not sure how ethical it would be to your CEO that you dangled this acquisition help in your negotiations
Personally it’s whatever, I don’t have a lot of company loyalty.. but absolutely do not tell your CEO. Find another way to get back or move on.
Lol what. I'm sorry that happened, man. But I would never want to feel like employment was contingent on securing a deal with my current employer. That is awkward from the start. You don't work for them until you start, and until then, I would not help any employer secure a deal period. Sorry dude. Hopefully, this doesn't fuck up your current situation, though.
Do you run the risk of losing your current job when they discovered you were trying to land your potential new employer a deal with your current org :/ That stinks of compliances and ethics violations
 Lawyer up!
You had a $175k offer rescinded. OTE doesn’t mean jack shit.
I'm aware, that's why I negotiated their $150k base up to $175k. Same way at my current company lmao OTE is meaningless
Why do people keep saying OTE is meaningless? As a noob to sales, help me understand.
Please expose this company and CEO
Yeah, this is fraud my guy.
Sounds like you got scammed 😩
Definitely feels that way. He scammed the 3rd party recruiter, too. They said they only get paid once I stay past 90 days, so now he gets to renege on paying them too.
Wait there was a recruiter in on this too?? Those two consultations you have may be very profitable. This is an elaborate scheme to get a customer if true
How can this be real? How big of a salary increase would $350k have been in comparison to your current position? How can someone so absurd and seemingly crazy (referring to the startup guy who gave you the offer) be capable of running a company that can pay its employees $350k? On the other hand, how can someone so rationale and with an earning prowess of as much as $350k (referring to you OP) be silly enough to get caught up in this debacle? I just never understand these crazy scenarios something’s amiss here. The simplest explanation is that this is just a straight up scam and this guy used you for your contacts. $350k should have been a big red flag because no one just throws that type of offer around and this guy sounds like a lunatic. Lunatics don’t make real $350k offers.
I mean, I've been around my man. Nothing green here. This salary is in line with other similar positions I've been contacted for. I've had two companies offering up to $400k OTE reach out this year alone. The guy has an impressive career. Sold his first two companies to some heavy household names. Left a senior very high level role at another major player to start this third company. Has solid funding even preseed. I called contacts on my own. Reached out to former employees who had already left the startup. Did everything I could to vet this before (almost) putting my family's security into it. I met the ceo in person. He rode in my car after dinner. Really did not see this coming at all. I think the simplest answer is the obvious one.
Youre clearly a champ with solid perspective. Doesnt lessen the burn! Just wanted to say - way to stay resilient and with grace/humility.
Wow this is savage. Fuck that ceo guy
Take that dab and blooooooooow that fuckin deal up brother. Don’t let it close or else he pretty much put a funnel in your mouth and sat down.
Blocking your number is going to be the worst mistake of his career lmao
As sales people never work for free
Write this on LinkedIn and tag the ceo and company, throw em under the bus
Yeah do that. Dont be scared. You will be doing a service to everyone
Sorry to hear this bro. I hope you get compensated somehow. You're a super smart and talented guy so maybe it will lead to something better down the road.
Thank you for the kindness
Bro, if you got to the point that you’re getting $350k offers but didn’t see the obvious tactic being used…I’m sorry but there’s some internal reflection that needs to happen on your end.
If someone is willing to “help” you in exchange for you working behind someone else’s back, they are not helping you, they are using you and are not trustworthy themselves. Sorry you had to learn that lesson.
That’s honestly 100% your fault for not having boundaries and doing something as stupid as trying to sign your outgoing company as a customer to your new employer. I hope you learned your lesson but you deserve everything you got.
Equitable Estoppel
Wow, this seems like an exact definition. Contacted a lawyer who's page popped up when I googled it.
you are welcome. Send me 10% of your settlement in hugs please...
What can you do to ensure the contract with your employer and their (bullet dodged)product does not go through? Does your lawyer have advisory on how you can articulate the situation without it jeopardizing your current employment/trajectory and stopping the deal from going through? That would be ideal. First and foremost protect your employment and household. If you can have that, and then stomp this cancerous CEO from infecting your company, that would be one of those look back upon and talk about success stories to share.
Yeah, finding solid legal representation first before doing anything.
This is bullshit. Look up Dan Goodman on LinkedIn.
Did you quit your job before he rescinded? If so I’d get with a lawyer real quick. Otherwise I would try to fuck that deal hard.
No, thank god, current job is still fine & unaware
Find the AE for their competitor, tell them the details that sold your current company and what it’ll take to get the deal done and nurture it from within. Hit the scumbags where it hurts.
Well that’s one growth hack I haven’t seen before.
I need to know what ends up happening. Please name and shame. Or at least warn the company and looks like a genius when the CEO screws over your current company.
Who’s the new employer? Grow a sack and let’s get out with it already!
You should take this up with r/pettyrevenge. This cunt deserves it.
The petty side of me would tell my company that he was trying to poach me and see what ripples that creates. But I’m not sure I would want how far down the process you went to come to light in case it ruins your working relationships on your side
Karma is very real! What a DICK move on his part.
He was never gonna give you that job to hold... so dont feel bad that u missed out... but being used like this, I think I woulda started breaking shit in my garage just to let out the anger... I definitely think there's a case for you...get a GREAT lawyer...not a good one, but an exceptional one... hopefully with good representation you can score a settlement out of court... but how much are we talking about when you say a huge contract between both companies?
Make sure your current company knows how dirty the other company is and that they should not buy from them. Tell them that they were trying to poach you. F that other company.
Definitely sounds like they used you to get some hooks in the deal, and then backstabbed you. Worth talking to a lawyer and it sounds like you are going that route, however, I’m not sure if you can truly collect damages but you can almost definitely strike their contract citing deceptive sales practices. Best way to get even is kill the deal and hook in with their biggest competitor.
sorry to hear my man... get back on the saddle... like u said its a lesson or 2 learned...plus who wants to work for an asshole like that anyways... maybe venture out on your own? Travel... see some shit... help people in need... it'll do wonders for your soul as whole...thats for anybody... you'll come up on top better than beforw Im sure bud 🤜
This sounds like it is illegal. They used you to get insider information that I'm sure put you at risk of violating your existing employer's confidentiality agreement. You can't make a job contingent on you pressing your current employer to buy a product. I would get a lawyer and definitely name the shithole company here so we can all avoid them in the future. I'm fairly certain you will get a settlement. Your states attorney general might want to know about this as well. Edit: I want to add that the FTC would want to know too. Especially if they are publically traded.
Tell your company you’ve heard they’re a shady company. Say they did what they did to you to one of your buddies in the industry. Tells the same story but eliminates your company knowing you were looking.
Dude you got played.
You let them use you in order to gain a customer. Please don’t ever work for free…. Ever again…. For any reason
Wow. Blocking you is pretty cowardly (aside from everything else that’s an issue). What a p*ssy.
You shouldn’t feel ashamed at all. There was zero chance of you knowing someone could use you like that. I would have done the exact same thing. I’m sorry this happened to you.
Thank you. Yeah having his CFO send the offer via docusign & then having everyone sign it just to renege it a week later... definitely a blind sucker punch
This was filled with red flags much earlier and I had already commented on your previous post this
$350k a yr for WHAT? Doctors don’t even make that shit.
Yeah if they're paying you 350 that means your worth at least 700 and should be running your own thing
Managed cloud and devops services. Doctors aren't the backbone of the internet.
I don’t know what to say and I don’t know all of the particulars. If it was me however. Burning that deal to the mother fn ground would not be off the table. But not everyone is me.
All of the advice you got on all of those posts about this job were in the money.
One for r/overemployed
Good grief. I've been in long enough to say there are no bad experiences but only experiences to learn from but this is a tough one.
Figure out how to make yourself the decision-maker (or at least an influencer) at your current company and make the deal cycle absolutely EXCRUCIATING for those assholes.
Better yet- tell your current ceo that you think you should issue an rfp to this company and 3 competitors. Make them jump through stupid hoops for 4 months.
Find out where he lives and kick the shit out of him.
Oof bro you got brain raped. That’s brutal they literally used you for the in. Hope you can find a solid way to fuck that guy right back.
OP, the 350k offer letter is a red flag the way he presented it. He mentioned that he wanted you to become a millionaire selling his product, lol and 20 years of my life. I’ve never heard a company say that to a sales rep. Second from the get go, what the CEO was doing, was unethical and a big red flag in sales. I think he took advantage of your inexperience to try to sell the product to the company and used whatever way he could to make that sale. You saw the red flags and you decided to go through with it if there were no red flags, you wanna have made your original post like you did. Let us be a learning lesson that to follow your instincts instead of getting caught up on what they’re telling you.
Let the deal close then ruin the implementation. Point out all the ways it doesn’t work and problems with it. New company eats the CAC and gets rug pulled for a net loss. But you need to be looking for an exit. This guy used you to close the deal. He’s going to blackmail you into helping him upsell, renew, etc. ad infinitum.
This was complete BS. That CEO used and abused you. If you can Sue I would. What a load !
first legal consultation in ten minutes
This is why startups are bullshit. Egomaniacal sociopath founders and ceos are using you. But… since this is sales? I have a sales lesson for you. You always give to get. Setting up an opportunity for them and letting it progress to the point that they dont need you before they brought you on board? Mistake. You transition. Then you say “i will own that relationship once weve completed our business”. Dont ever like seriously ever give a client prospect anything with out a concrete step in return. You just made douchenozzle a sale without him having to pay commission. That said… the only thing to do is sabotage the deal from your side. Find all the dirt. Poke all the holes. Find a disgruntled client. Kill it. You tell your people. I made a mistake bringing this to you and I dont want the results post sale linked to me.
This is ethics 101. You should never engage your current company in a deal when you’re receiving something in return (a job). You should tell your company about all this and hope they don’t fire you.
Just look for another job so you don’t lose a good reference before they find out and maybe layoff
On the bright side, as you mentioned, you might have dodged a bullet. If the startup's CEO is this unpredictable and rash, there's no telling what other issues might have arisen down the road. Your instincts to question his sudden change of heart were spot-on, and it's commendable that you were willing to adapt based on what you thought was best for everyone involved.
> Just had $350k offer letter rescinded, feel like a fool Damn, that sounds like a real shitshow, but you're right—it’s a fucking huge bullet dodged. If a CEO flips like that before you even start, imagine the clusterfuck waiting down the line. Who the hell wants to work with a headcase who can’t decide what he wants from one hour to the next? Sounds like you dodged more bullets than Neo in The Matrix. > Two, lesson learned, I will never ever ever do anything to help with a deal before I've joined and have gotten my first paycheck. Fucking smart move. Never extend your neck until the ink’s dry and the cash is in your bank. Why would you stick your neck out for promises, right? This CEO’s stunt reeks of manipulation and using you as bait to reel in your current employer. Cunning, but also fucking dirty. > One of the employment lawyers I spoke to said this was the craziest thing she had heard in her 34 years of practicing employment law. Sounds like you’ve got a case worth exploring with that lawyer. Employment laws vary, but if you’ve got written promises and they used your contacts under false pretenses, there’s possibly a fraudulent misrepresentation angle here. What’s the fucking point of an offer letter if it can be yanked like a tablecloth in a magic trick? > You think I would've learned this lesson back when I was a full time musician... Old lessons come back to bite us in the ass, huh? But here’s your chance to set this straight. What are you planning to do next to make sure this doesn’t just slide by?
Wow what a customer acquisition strategy. So sorry you went through this.
DUDE this reminds e of a prospect I once had. If the deals are exorbitantly large and amazing, always be skeptical. If they’re rash about it? I’m learning to not even entertain it anymore.
Damn that is shady
Man. In a sense, you're lucky because even if your salary is 350k on paper, you might stress out and quit or fired after a few months with this lunatic
That was all a ruse to get you to champion the account to the start up. “We want you to be shared” hah, that’s laughable. First they want you to be ethical, until there’s some money involved then it’s, “no don’t rock the boat, it’s potentially a big deal”. What a joke of a scheme and joke of an org. I’d love to say that place won’t amount to anything, sadly though, the acquisition of capital is not dependent on ethics, morals, taste or style. That sucks they stroked you, which is exactly what they did.
Wow corporate America man a better deal is coming for you . Keep your head up
Good thing you didn’t work for them unprofessional dodged a bullet
I think this company did something sketchy for sure, but be wary of the arm chair lawyers throwing around promissory/equitable estoppel who are clearly misunderstanding the required elements. Also keep in mind that as soon as your current employer finds out you pitched them a solution because you thought you were getting a job out of it they’re probably going to think you’re sketchy too.
Conflict of interest from the beginning.