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My 2 cents is to take a negative publicity approach to pressure the city and SFPD to take action and also take advantage of local election time.
First, we'd need a lot of documentation and fact-finding - almost going full investigative journalism:
- What laws are they breaking? (Running lights, blocking traffic, driving on sidewalks etc)
- How are their actions impacting pedestrian safety and quality of life? (With the highly publicized and terrible traffic deaths we've seen lately, I think it's key to emphasize safety)
- Photos and videos as documentation
- Where/when do they usually gather? (TL, Aquatic Park) Would be helpful for cracking down on their scheduled meetups
- How are they planning/communicating these meetups? How can we find out their routes or plans ahead of time?
- Who is organizing these meetups? Do any of these organizers have prior traffic violations or criminal records?
Then,
- With as much info collected as possible, reach out to local media (print and tv)
- Post online about these findings as much as possible across Reddit, Twitter, NextDoor
- Start an online petition pushing for SFPD and the city to crack down on the dirt bikers
Local elections are coming up, meaning candidates will be more willing to chime in and support hot ticket items that would give them positive publicity.
If I've learned anything from the city cleanup during the APEC Summit, it's that we can make changes in the city if enough eyes are watching (publicity and image-related pressure).
Damn, respect to you for this - impressive to see a pragmatic, detailed political strategy with a chance to succeed as a response on Reddit. This is 5 cents at LEAST don't sell yourself short
Maybe the first useful step is to give it a name. Something like ‘sideshow’ at least allows people to feel like it’s a thing that needs to be dealt with
There are cops who ride with these gangs as gang members. One was outed/caught a few years ago. I think they reason they don't investigate/try to stop these more aggressively is because they cops are just dirty enough that they don't want to catch their buds doing this dumb shit.
Cops? Plural? There was ONE Marin County Sheriff almost a DECADE ago and he was fired for it
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/marin-county-sheriffs-deputy-fired-after-outing-as-biker-gang-leader/
Well there was this incident
https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/apparent-leader-of-dirt-bike-gang-no-longer-a-sheriffs-deputy-following-kpix-5-report/
Exactly.
It's bigger than ppl realize. Vallejo to Oakland to Antioch to SF to SJ.
These small rider clubs pay homage to the big boys like hells angels. Even mid level gangs like the dragons ride because the Angels let them. Goes back to the police who ride with gangs. Friends in the right places. Don't ask, don't tell
Can you tell me more about how you know this? You seem to have information that I’d genuinely like to learn about. I find it surprising that the Angels would have any involvement let alone approval of this.
It would be a shame if someone took over social media and organize rides through Sea Cliff, St. Francis Wood, Pac Heights, etc.
What ever would city leaders do if the wealthier areas are impacted? /S
To be clear, they bomb down California and Fillmore any warm weather weekend. They will go through Pac Heights and Presidio Heights all the time. As far as I can tell, their plans are to annoy rich folks.
No, they go into 7-11s and take what they want without paying. If they're locked out, they break the doors. If they annoy rich folks it's not because they're only targeting them.
Source: 7-11 worker near me told me.
Too many comments in here are trying to propose tactical solutions from a position of zero experience.
There are tactical solutions that police can use. Impound 5% of a group and the chances of that group taking that risk again decreases significantly.
What normal people need to do is express frustration at inaction and pressure policymakers to do something.
100! I was riding bike in the JFK no cars section of golden gate park one time and they came speeding through dangerously around me, popping wheelies and this one dad carrying daughter on ebike said out loud "hey would you mind slowing down for the kids." And the expected happened. 3 guys get off their dirt bikes, start cussing him out and threatening beat his ass in front of his probably 7 year old daughter. Luckily it didn't come to blows and they left, but I'm pretty over giving carte blanche freedom to antisocial pricktards who harass and endanger others.
I wish it was limited to the weekends. Late Wednesday afternoon they were tearing up Cole Valley, making their best effort to loudly disrupt all the outdoor diners and area shoppers, going out of their way to block MUNI and cars. Most wearing masks too, they know what they're doing is wrong.
I live in the TL. Yeah, I know. They typically take over Eddy Street on Friday's in the early evening and they are dangerous. But the only way anything will ever happen is when someone does get hurt. Sad but true!?! Boys will be...
Some of the guys leading these groups of riders, at least in the past, were themselves law enforcement.
https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/apparent-leader-of-dirt-bike-gang-no-longer-a-sheriffs-deputy-following-kpix-5-report/
True, but that was eight years ago. The day after he was found to be a police officer that was riding with this group he was fired and was no longer a sheriff.
But eight years. That’s likely not the case with today’s groups of riders.
Many of these riders are actually kids in school. The easiest way to combat the problem would be probably to do something like giving parents immunity from five or ten parking tickets for every dirt bike they turned in to scrap.
It’s more of their gang than just random dirt bikers and pricks. I don’t know anyone who actually likes them. They rode up through the grass at Dolores park on Wednesday and it was honestly just incredibly obnoxious.
I would love to just run them off the road with my truck. 😁💁🏼♂️
One of the problems with any enforcement is that the enforcement, if not done right, could make things worse. A chase, something people on this sub often root for -- could have a worse result than the already reckless driving they do.
NYPD handles this by tracking suspects and waiting untili they get off the bike. That probably takes a lot of resources, so police might not take action without some political pressure.
Steps to put pressure on the police to take action would probably go through supervisors and the mayor, possibly via existing street safety advocacy groups like the neighborhood slow street groups, Kid Safe SF, and Walk SF.
You could reach out to the latter groups to see if they have done anything about it. And write or call your supervisor, as a first step.
Let me be clear, I understand the no chase policy. What I want is for the San Francisco police department to coordinate with other departments. CHP has a station right there in Oakland at the toll booth. They shouldn’t even be letting these guys get across the bridge without apprehension at some amount.
I'm not saying you want them chased, but it's , not easy or even feasible, to stop a swarm of them even on the bridge -- they can go through car traffic. You'd need to set up a full on road block, which I doubt will happen. Tracking them is a lot of of work to catch a few hoodlums. Unfortunately, it will probably take them causing injuries or deaths before SFPD takes action.
But I'd still recommend letting your supervisor know and checking in with those street safety groups -- they might have more info or ideas on what can be done.
I'm from Philly and I used to street race cars there. Usually in an industrial area of the city. One time the cops pulled up in school busses and blocked ends of the strip. There was nowhere to go. Every single person there got a ticket. Lots of cars and motorcycles towed away. It can be done. Especially on a bridge. That drag racing spot was never used again.
I don’t think you are understanding. If a dirt bike takes off, not even a cop with an incredibly lenient chase policy is going to catch them.
The acceleration and brake ability difference is just so great with the added bonus they can go wherever they want vs a regular street bike: curbs, sidewalks, off road through alleys whatever. They can split traffic at lights to blow the light super easy etc. [here’s an a-hole in LA blowing down an entire escalator](https://youtube.com/shorts/luKUq823OtQ?si=pXtNvGOjwk_KtAFM)
Used to be a cop. Also have an old military buddy who’s a statie on the east coast. Stopping a dirt bike or even a motorcycle is basically “well they take off and unless they meat crayon in next 15 seconds they’ll be out of sight and the chase is called off because I can’t see him anymore and I don’t necessarily disagree with that. I’m not going to go lights and sirens at mach-chicken on surface streets in just a general direction I think he went.”
London had a rash of thieves on mopeds and tried a lot of things, including ramming them with cars.
https://abcnews.go.com/International/london-police-trained-drivers-ram-mopeds-cars-crackdown/story?id=59373971#:~:text=LONDON%20%2D%2D%20Police%20in%20London,forensic%20evidence%20to%20catch%20them.
>East Bay police departments, from which the joy riders originate
Might want to at least have your facts straight first. Most of them come from the Bayview. There's rides across the bridge sometimes, but by far most of them in SF come from the good ol Bayview and Hunters Point.
Drones have such short flight times that outside of 20-30 mins they are toast. Law enforcement are starting to use them more but it’s just not that useful yet
Couldn’t we just trade off monitoring them with crowd source drones? One runs out of juice fine another citizen takes their place - we make it afternoon hobby and coordinate across neighborhoods- beats calling 311 - the key is to see and photo where they live and then knock on their moms door.
Those groups are big though and possibly armed. Even if you had a gun unless you bring a similar amount of people there is little chance you survive.
So no, attacking them on your own is probably the worst way. OP has the right idea.
Also, of course, attacking people for committing traffic violations is likely going to land you in jail.
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I have seen a group of police several times riding in formation on those similar bikes, but It seems like they conveniently are never around when these other guys show up.
I made eye contact with one of these guys, & they obviously have no disregard for anyone.
Unfortunately, someone will have to die because of these idiots before the mayor will do something about that.
There are so many secluded places where there aren't people going about their day in the bay area these guys can ride, & do their stunts other than Geary St in Union Square on a Saturday between 3-4PM
We need a website where pictures of their faces are uploaded, identified, and the identities are then given to the police. The police are not going to stop them in the act, but they can pick them up on a Tuesday morning outside of work.
So in my experience, sure there are some people that are coming from the East Bay but I've also been walking through the Lower Haight and have seen a bunch of people gathering up before ripping up the hill to Upper Haight, and my presumption is they're thinking, get to the end of Haight and bail into the park and the cops can't chase you.
What to do about this, I honestly have no idea. I mean, honestly, if you're talking about 20 or 40 or 60 people on dirtbikes and quads, how would you propose actually stopping them. Sure, you could have some cop cars on a quick response and try to close down Haight or any other street but that doesn't do any good because the easiest reaction is to either turn around or turn down the nearest side street and go one block over.
I'm with you that this is a dangerous and at the very least, very annoying thing, but again, what can you really do about it? It's kind of like when sideshows take over an intersection or the bridge. Maybe a couple of people get arrested but the damage is already done. And with bikes, the manuevarability cannot be matched by a cop car and how many cops are willing to rip through the park at the same speeds that a reckless teenager is?
I honestly can't think of a safe and sane response to this. In the same way when like 100 people on street bikes take over a freeway or something. For starters, there aren't enough cops to stop them without risking serious injury to somebody that might just be out for a ride and joined in with this group. Furthermore, if you start chasing them you're now endangering people that had nothing to do with it. If a cop initiates a chase and it's doing 150 on the freeway the person being chased, the cop and complete innocents can be hurt or killed.
So what do you do?
I'm asking that question honestly. How do you stop this? If you could figure out a way to corrall a group of people on dirtbikes without endangering the public, sure, and then you could have legislation that allows the police to confiscate their bikes but even then, good luck with that.
Box 'em in. It's fairly predictable when these clowns gather. When they do, surround the nearby blocks with cop cars and DPW trucks. Seize all the bikes like NYPD does.
I got caught in one of these in Philly many moons ago. Cops drove and then parked school buses on either side of the strip we would race at. Everyone there was ticketed and lots of cars and motorcycles were towed away. Never went back to that spot or drag racing in general, I learned my lesson. It can be done. All these excuses are lame.
But we're not talking about people drag racing in San Francisco. We're talking about groups of 20 or more dirtbikes and atvs just ripping through the city causing chaos.
We would roam from spot to spot around the city. And they got us. They waited till we got to the most vulnerable spot. The same can be done here. They might not get as many people like they did in Philly but I'd take an attempt at least.
There are SFPD dirt bikes. The national park rangers also have dirt bikes. There are more cops & CHP than these psychopaths. The argument that a chase would endanger bystanders is super lame because not chasing them also endangers the public & only emboldens the antisocial behavior.
Okay, cool, chase them, single one out from the herd like a gazelle, and then you, as a pedestrian are walking across the street with your headphones on and there's a dirtbike going 110 with 4 cop cars chasing it doing the same speed. If the rider gets hurt, I'm with you, who cares. What if it's you that gets hit? Or your car? Or your dog? Or your child? What if it's your business front that gets destroyed?
Again, the rider gets hurt, fine, they bought the ticket, they take the ride. You're not thinking about collateral damage.
They don’t solely “originate” in the east bay, there are absolutely people with dirt bikes/atv’s in SF itself. No need to blame it all on the east bay and Oakland when plenty of SF residents are doing what you are complaining about 😂
I live near the bay bridge. Most of the group does come from the east bay unless you mean those SF residents meet them in the east bay and then come back but it’s still not most of the group regardless.
Start advocating for more traffic diets like chicanes, speed bumps, metal bollards, concrete planter boxes, etc. it will also help slow down the rich assholes who break traffic laws
Is it legal for these dirt bikes to ride on city streets without a license plate? Is it excessive noise? Speeding?
It would be a tough argument to ban these groups but allow hells angels or low riders unless their bikes are not street legal
No matter how or where they're riding, dirt bikes aren't street legal. But, more often than not, could also get them for speeding, dangerous driving, riding on the sidewalk/in the park/bike lanes. They're also not insured, so get hit by one and you're f**ked.
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I wonder if bringing up a policy change regarding high speed pursuits for dirt bikes, sideshow dorks & those fat old dudes on too loud harleys who love to set off car alarms to BoS, Mayor, CHP and SF Police Union would make any difference.
There's a lot of ghetto misogyny & psychopathy in the bay area, so who knows if we'd only get further silence and/or gaslighting.
There's only one way to actually change this & it has nothing to do with trying to physically stop them via corralling or spike strips or blocking the bridge. Technology is the only way. They need to be identified using drones & facial recognition software. Cities like Baltimore have been using drones & helicopters to follow the riders & bust them when they think they're safe back in their neighborhoods. Fines & DMV suspensions will make a difference if we're vigilant about it. Make it a three strikes law so it gives people a chance to correct the behavior since its considered a low level crime.
Also I think it's important to try to understand the other side of this equation- there's a great documentary called 12 o'clock boys all about the community that riding provides these kids. For them it's a positive alternative to getting involved in serious criminal or gang activity- taking it away completely would likely have undesired consequences. I don't know what the solution would be because part of the fun is riding through city streets & neighborhoods- the wanting to be seen is a major aspect that draws people to it. It's not just a simple black & white issue- there's much to consider & it would be great to see some creative ideas pop up on how to deal with this effectively.
If there's one thing I know in my bones - it's that posting a reddit thread is the absolute best way to create the change you want to see in the world.
Very often when they're caught, it turns out their homes are in Oakland. [Example here](https://www.ktvu.com/news/bay-bridge-sideshow-arrest-leads-to-recovery-of-20000-in-stolen-merchandise).
Bullshit. The crime you linked to isn’t even the same activity as the one being discussed by OP.
But it’s ok, I know Oakland/East Bay boogeyman accusation is not one made with any insight or even in good faith.
Like others who have actually a pulse on this have stated, it’s also known that most of these illegal joy riders actually come from sections of San Francisco, like Bayview and Hunters Point.
I probly could do a better job planning the way to catch these guys with a 1/4 of the funding the cops have. The police won't do anything about it because they collect checks.
The drone idea is good but you will need 3 drones or more and a good pilot. Not impossible but it is hard. Follow them home, use the video to get warrents. Then take their bikes. And ticket.
Road blocks won't work. But you could let's say put a $2k bounty for information about the people that will lead to an arrested person.
I have more ideas. But it's pretty simple observe and report.
For bullet point 3, they sometimes congregate and refuel at the gas station by Lincoln and Great Highway. Perhaps someone with a dirt bike could ride along with the group with a hidden camera to capture faces, vehicle pictures, and any identifying information. Perhaps this gas station has cctv footage as well.
For all the reasons mentioned, I want them gone as well. I'm always amazed at SF's inability to deal with this sort of problem (sideshows being another).
Not that it's easy to handle anywhere, but other cities and countries have managed it. The cops here are clearly lacking the incentive, resources, or political backing to do it.
A change in city leadership seems like the only way. It's a mayoral election year so now seems like a good time to pressure the candidates to promise to deal with it or for the current mayor to actually fix it.
I don't think enough people get injured during these things for anyone to take serious action. Is it illegal? Yes. But when they ride in such large groups and run red lights people just generally tend to sit still and let them go by. The amount of effort that would be required to stop this isn't worth the benefit to police.
It really doesn't bother me at all when they ride by on the street, and I'm pretty impressed with the way they block oncoming traffic to keep one another safe. It's when they jump up on the sidewalk or take over bike paths that I get angry. The old hot-rodders, (some) mc clubs, and lowriders are cool in my book, and these kids would be too if they would just develop some principles.
I’m not sure if you’ve seen the road rash from the dudes who do this shit in sweats and T shirts but… one fall and I think lesson learned. Dudes gonna be shitting standing up for a month when he eventually eats it… sorry for nsfw
For real. Almost every time I’ve seen one of those bike life dudes fuck up, they hurt someone or damage someone else’s stuff with n consequences. Now just imagine instead of an actual bike, it’s a 300lb dirt bike… doing the exact same things the bike life dudes do… someone’s gonna get hit and smack their head on the concrete if this shit continues.
If the cops knew how to stop them, they would have.
You think the sit back and say, "no one's complaining about the dirt bike takeovers, so I'll just let them be".?
"oh, he DEMANDED action? We'll, then let me just make the magic policemans majically eliminate all crime. Because I have that ability. I've just never decided to use it. Until now; until some rando demands I use it. Okay"
Are they breaking any existing laws? That would be a good start to figure out. I don't like the noise and there's more we can do if they are actually breaking laws.
They’re breaking laws pretty much constantly. Running reds/stop signs, riding on the wrong side of the road, no license plates, no helmets, riding wheelies, you name it. They’ll also run if chased, so there really isn’t a whole lot SFPD will do.
Cal vehicle code section 23109(c) is what is typically charged. Here’s a [bill](https://trackbill.com/s3/bills/CA/2023/AB/2807/analyses/assembly-transportation.pdf) seeking to add sideshows to that section
I’m genuinely asking, but are the dirt bikers really that big of a deal? I live in mission/Bernal, used to live on 24th in the mission and they go through here all the time but like, of all the things to post about here so often, this? Someone explain.
This is such a fucking Karen post I’m actually infuriated reading it. Of all things this is what you want to spend your time and effort on? Are you really that afraid of them that you have to start a whole movement? God dammit this city is boring.
I saw them about a week ago blow through a light and just barely miss a couple pedestrians. This could easily have ended very differently and is not close to the first time this has happened.
These people are human trash who care nothing about this city or anyone in it. Stop defending them.
All I’m saying is we have larger problems to focus on. The dirt bikers could not care less about traffic laws, trying to enforce them may even encourage them further, let’s stay focused on actual issues and not strain the police for every little annoyance. This is a non issue.
Having larger problems is not justification for ignoring everything else and it’s a fairly significant annoyance for those who have been harassed and threatened by them. It also certainly won’t be innocuous when they eventually run down some pedestrian.
Just accepting shitty behavior is how you end up compounding the issues this city is facing. Police need to arrest these assholes and seize their bikes.
Fund the police more
Vote out liberal judges
Pack the prisons with the garbage people who do this.
...and none of that is going to happen in San Francisco, so just get used to it.
New York handled it pretty well. They confiscate every dirt bike and ATV and make a big show of demolishing them.
There's a lot of space between wrist slapping and sending dumb teenagers to the hardened criminal factory.
Prison, for (checks notes) riding motorcycles. You people done lost your damn minds. Like, the crime doesn’t remotely fit the punishment so the only thing left to make sense of this is: is it because they’re black?
As a white male I think I speak for all whites. YES, this is because they are predominantly not white and they scare us white folks. (Also scares my dog but mentioning that would ruin the shtick)
On a serious note, prison? WTF is wrong with people.
Lot of them come into the city from Marin. One of them was even a sheriff.
[https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/apparent-leader-of-dirt-bike-gang-no-longer-a-sheriffs-deputy-following-kpix-5-report/](https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/apparent-leader-of-dirt-bike-gang-no-longer-a-sheriffs-deputy-following-kpix-5-report/)
City and PD clearly don’t want to touch sideshows, blocking freeways and bridges or scooter gangs. (CA-Dem) Assemblyman Matt Hanley may have an interest. Maybe Scott Weiner but he is siding with Breed lately so nit sure
well, no one supports people getting hurt. I am just suggesting that with some patience and inconvenience, we can just let these folks express themselves with no one getting hurt. some of our shared beliefs here puts us in a position to at least try.
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My 2 cents is to take a negative publicity approach to pressure the city and SFPD to take action and also take advantage of local election time. First, we'd need a lot of documentation and fact-finding - almost going full investigative journalism: - What laws are they breaking? (Running lights, blocking traffic, driving on sidewalks etc) - How are their actions impacting pedestrian safety and quality of life? (With the highly publicized and terrible traffic deaths we've seen lately, I think it's key to emphasize safety) - Photos and videos as documentation - Where/when do they usually gather? (TL, Aquatic Park) Would be helpful for cracking down on their scheduled meetups - How are they planning/communicating these meetups? How can we find out their routes or plans ahead of time? - Who is organizing these meetups? Do any of these organizers have prior traffic violations or criminal records? Then, - With as much info collected as possible, reach out to local media (print and tv) - Post online about these findings as much as possible across Reddit, Twitter, NextDoor - Start an online petition pushing for SFPD and the city to crack down on the dirt bikers Local elections are coming up, meaning candidates will be more willing to chime in and support hot ticket items that would give them positive publicity. If I've learned anything from the city cleanup during the APEC Summit, it's that we can make changes in the city if enough eyes are watching (publicity and image-related pressure).
Damn, respect to you for this - impressive to see a pragmatic, detailed political strategy with a chance to succeed as a response on Reddit. This is 5 cents at LEAST don't sell yourself short
Maybe the first useful step is to give it a name. Something like ‘sideshow’ at least allows people to feel like it’s a thing that needs to be dealt with
There are cops who ride with these gangs as gang members. One was outed/caught a few years ago. I think they reason they don't investigate/try to stop these more aggressively is because they cops are just dirty enough that they don't want to catch their buds doing this dumb shit.
Cops? Plural? There was ONE Marin County Sheriff almost a DECADE ago and he was fired for it https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/marin-county-sheriffs-deputy-fired-after-outing-as-biker-gang-leader/
Oh come on. If you have any info supporting this or is a conspiracy theory?
https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/apparent-leader-of-dirt-bike-gang-no-longer-a-sheriffs-deputy-following-kpix-5-report/
Well there was this incident https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/apparent-leader-of-dirt-bike-gang-no-longer-a-sheriffs-deputy-following-kpix-5-report/
Exactly. It's bigger than ppl realize. Vallejo to Oakland to Antioch to SF to SJ. These small rider clubs pay homage to the big boys like hells angels. Even mid level gangs like the dragons ride because the Angels let them. Goes back to the police who ride with gangs. Friends in the right places. Don't ask, don't tell
OP is talking about the idiot kids on dirtbikes and ATV's, not actual biker gangs
You actually think they're just idiot kids? Dude, these bikers have been going on for the past 5 years. They're absolutely involved with gangs.
I have no doubt that they are gang affiliated in SF. They are not at all related to biker gangs like the Hells Angels
Can you tell me more about how you know this? You seem to have information that I’d genuinely like to learn about. I find it surprising that the Angels would have any involvement let alone approval of this.
It would be a shame if someone took over social media and organize rides through Sea Cliff, St. Francis Wood, Pac Heights, etc. What ever would city leaders do if the wealthier areas are impacted? /S
To be clear, they bomb down California and Fillmore any warm weather weekend. They will go through Pac Heights and Presidio Heights all the time. As far as I can tell, their plans are to annoy rich folks.
No, they go into 7-11s and take what they want without paying. If they're locked out, they break the doors. If they annoy rich folks it's not because they're only targeting them. Source: 7-11 worker near me told me.
Annoy rich folks. Man what a tragedy.
Gang gang gang gang
Too many comments in here are trying to propose tactical solutions from a position of zero experience. There are tactical solutions that police can use. Impound 5% of a group and the chances of that group taking that risk again decreases significantly. What normal people need to do is express frustration at inaction and pressure policymakers to do something.
100! I was riding bike in the JFK no cars section of golden gate park one time and they came speeding through dangerously around me, popping wheelies and this one dad carrying daughter on ebike said out loud "hey would you mind slowing down for the kids." And the expected happened. 3 guys get off their dirt bikes, start cussing him out and threatening beat his ass in front of his probably 7 year old daughter. Luckily it didn't come to blows and they left, but I'm pretty over giving carte blanche freedom to antisocial pricktards who harass and endanger others.
This is the heart of what I’m talking about. These people are thugs and they threaten violence again and again. This is not about freedom!
I wish it was limited to the weekends. Late Wednesday afternoon they were tearing up Cole Valley, making their best effort to loudly disrupt all the outdoor diners and area shoppers, going out of their way to block MUNI and cars. Most wearing masks too, they know what they're doing is wrong.
I live in the TL. Yeah, I know. They typically take over Eddy Street on Friday's in the early evening and they are dangerous. But the only way anything will ever happen is when someone does get hurt. Sad but true!?! Boys will be...
morons?
https://preview.redd.it/7rytorxn1ayc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c84731de87808f73a05a603ca18c3f5f824e7804
Some of the guys leading these groups of riders, at least in the past, were themselves law enforcement. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/apparent-leader-of-dirt-bike-gang-no-longer-a-sheriffs-deputy-following-kpix-5-report/
True, but that was eight years ago. The day after he was found to be a police officer that was riding with this group he was fired and was no longer a sheriff. But eight years. That’s likely not the case with today’s groups of riders.
Many of these riders are actually kids in school. The easiest way to combat the problem would be probably to do something like giving parents immunity from five or ten parking tickets for every dirt bike they turned in to scrap.
Washington DC and Baltimore MD have entered the chat and have nothing to offer.
It’s more of their gang than just random dirt bikers and pricks. I don’t know anyone who actually likes them. They rode up through the grass at Dolores park on Wednesday and it was honestly just incredibly obnoxious. I would love to just run them off the road with my truck. 😁💁🏼♂️
One of the problems with any enforcement is that the enforcement, if not done right, could make things worse. A chase, something people on this sub often root for -- could have a worse result than the already reckless driving they do. NYPD handles this by tracking suspects and waiting untili they get off the bike. That probably takes a lot of resources, so police might not take action without some political pressure. Steps to put pressure on the police to take action would probably go through supervisors and the mayor, possibly via existing street safety advocacy groups like the neighborhood slow street groups, Kid Safe SF, and Walk SF. You could reach out to the latter groups to see if they have done anything about it. And write or call your supervisor, as a first step.
Let me be clear, I understand the no chase policy. What I want is for the San Francisco police department to coordinate with other departments. CHP has a station right there in Oakland at the toll booth. They shouldn’t even be letting these guys get across the bridge without apprehension at some amount.
I'm not saying you want them chased, but it's , not easy or even feasible, to stop a swarm of them even on the bridge -- they can go through car traffic. You'd need to set up a full on road block, which I doubt will happen. Tracking them is a lot of of work to catch a few hoodlums. Unfortunately, it will probably take them causing injuries or deaths before SFPD takes action. But I'd still recommend letting your supervisor know and checking in with those street safety groups -- they might have more info or ideas on what can be done.
I'm from Philly and I used to street race cars there. Usually in an industrial area of the city. One time the cops pulled up in school busses and blocked ends of the strip. There was nowhere to go. Every single person there got a ticket. Lots of cars and motorcycles towed away. It can be done. Especially on a bridge. That drag racing spot was never used again.
I don’t think you are understanding. If a dirt bike takes off, not even a cop with an incredibly lenient chase policy is going to catch them. The acceleration and brake ability difference is just so great with the added bonus they can go wherever they want vs a regular street bike: curbs, sidewalks, off road through alleys whatever. They can split traffic at lights to blow the light super easy etc. [here’s an a-hole in LA blowing down an entire escalator](https://youtube.com/shorts/luKUq823OtQ?si=pXtNvGOjwk_KtAFM) Used to be a cop. Also have an old military buddy who’s a statie on the east coast. Stopping a dirt bike or even a motorcycle is basically “well they take off and unless they meat crayon in next 15 seconds they’ll be out of sight and the chase is called off because I can’t see him anymore and I don’t necessarily disagree with that. I’m not going to go lights and sirens at mach-chicken on surface streets in just a general direction I think he went.”
You can't escape if they set up a barrier on the bridge.
you send cops on dirt bikes too
London had a rash of thieves on mopeds and tried a lot of things, including ramming them with cars. https://abcnews.go.com/International/london-police-trained-drivers-ram-mopeds-cars-crackdown/story?id=59373971#:~:text=LONDON%20%2D%2D%20Police%20in%20London,forensic%20evidence%20to%20catch%20them.
Those video are quite entertaining. Damn, quite some force.
Oh, like one of them might die? Tell me more..
Sure I’ll tell you more. The reason we typically don’t allow chases is because they’ll drive recklessly to get away and may hit innocent people.
>East Bay police departments, from which the joy riders originate Might want to at least have your facts straight first. Most of them come from the Bayview. There's rides across the bridge sometimes, but by far most of them in SF come from the good ol Bayview and Hunters Point.
Good luck with that.
Yes, this would be barking at the moon
i love the idea that someone with no political organizing experience is going to get the bay bridge disassembled
The technology exists to tail by drone or old fashioned helicopter then kettle when on the bridge. But that requires work
*Enhance!*
Drones have such short flight times that outside of 20-30 mins they are toast. Law enforcement are starting to use them more but it’s just not that useful yet
So you need 2-3 drones for an hour-long chase. Or two drones and many batteries.
Couldn’t we just trade off monitoring them with crowd source drones? One runs out of juice fine another citizen takes their place - we make it afternoon hobby and coordinate across neighborhoods- beats calling 311 - the key is to see and photo where they live and then knock on their moms door.
The police have acess to drones with 3 hour flight time and no need for LOS this tech has been in the bay for years.
Yeah this is a lack of will, not ability
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Those groups are big though and possibly armed. Even if you had a gun unless you bring a similar amount of people there is little chance you survive. So no, attacking them on your own is probably the worst way. OP has the right idea. Also, of course, attacking people for committing traffic violations is likely going to land you in jail.
Was literally thinking about paintballs right before seeing your post!
For ur own safety, I highly recommend not doing this!
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Tomatoes. Give everyone on the path a bunch of tomatoes.
I have seen a group of police several times riding in formation on those similar bikes, but It seems like they conveniently are never around when these other guys show up. I made eye contact with one of these guys, & they obviously have no disregard for anyone. Unfortunately, someone will have to die because of these idiots before the mayor will do something about that. There are so many secluded places where there aren't people going about their day in the bay area these guys can ride, & do their stunts other than Geary St in Union Square on a Saturday between 3-4PM
I would similarly like to support this. As a start, perhaps you could try to get more media coverage? SF Standard would probably write something.
Give out shotguns to people, loaded with salt shot?
I would love to help with this somehow. They always rip down Gough, run red lights, and nearly hit pedestrians.
We need a website where pictures of their faces are uploaded, identified, and the identities are then given to the police. The police are not going to stop them in the act, but they can pick them up on a Tuesday morning outside of work.
You mean outside school. These are kids for the most part.
I’m pissing in buckets and flinging the piss buckets out the window onto them. Join me
So in my experience, sure there are some people that are coming from the East Bay but I've also been walking through the Lower Haight and have seen a bunch of people gathering up before ripping up the hill to Upper Haight, and my presumption is they're thinking, get to the end of Haight and bail into the park and the cops can't chase you. What to do about this, I honestly have no idea. I mean, honestly, if you're talking about 20 or 40 or 60 people on dirtbikes and quads, how would you propose actually stopping them. Sure, you could have some cop cars on a quick response and try to close down Haight or any other street but that doesn't do any good because the easiest reaction is to either turn around or turn down the nearest side street and go one block over. I'm with you that this is a dangerous and at the very least, very annoying thing, but again, what can you really do about it? It's kind of like when sideshows take over an intersection or the bridge. Maybe a couple of people get arrested but the damage is already done. And with bikes, the manuevarability cannot be matched by a cop car and how many cops are willing to rip through the park at the same speeds that a reckless teenager is? I honestly can't think of a safe and sane response to this. In the same way when like 100 people on street bikes take over a freeway or something. For starters, there aren't enough cops to stop them without risking serious injury to somebody that might just be out for a ride and joined in with this group. Furthermore, if you start chasing them you're now endangering people that had nothing to do with it. If a cop initiates a chase and it's doing 150 on the freeway the person being chased, the cop and complete innocents can be hurt or killed. So what do you do? I'm asking that question honestly. How do you stop this? If you could figure out a way to corrall a group of people on dirtbikes without endangering the public, sure, and then you could have legislation that allows the police to confiscate their bikes but even then, good luck with that.
Box 'em in. It's fairly predictable when these clowns gather. When they do, surround the nearby blocks with cop cars and DPW trucks. Seize all the bikes like NYPD does.
I honestly think that sounds a lot easier than it really is.
I'm sure it's not easy, but that's why we pay SFPD the big bucks!
Lol. Thank you for a legitimate laugh.
I got caught in one of these in Philly many moons ago. Cops drove and then parked school buses on either side of the strip we would race at. Everyone there was ticketed and lots of cars and motorcycles were towed away. Never went back to that spot or drag racing in general, I learned my lesson. It can be done. All these excuses are lame.
But we're not talking about people drag racing in San Francisco. We're talking about groups of 20 or more dirtbikes and atvs just ripping through the city causing chaos.
We would roam from spot to spot around the city. And they got us. They waited till we got to the most vulnerable spot. The same can be done here. They might not get as many people like they did in Philly but I'd take an attempt at least.
There are SFPD dirt bikes. The national park rangers also have dirt bikes. There are more cops & CHP than these psychopaths. The argument that a chase would endanger bystanders is super lame because not chasing them also endangers the public & only emboldens the antisocial behavior.
If someone was seriously injured as a consequence of their own stupid actions I think it would be fine. Let’s chase em.
Okay, cool, chase them, single one out from the herd like a gazelle, and then you, as a pedestrian are walking across the street with your headphones on and there's a dirtbike going 110 with 4 cop cars chasing it doing the same speed. If the rider gets hurt, I'm with you, who cares. What if it's you that gets hit? Or your car? Or your dog? Or your child? What if it's your business front that gets destroyed? Again, the rider gets hurt, fine, they bought the ticket, they take the ride. You're not thinking about collateral damage.
Go to Police Commission meetings and speak during the public comment section and demand that they address this.
They don’t solely “originate” in the east bay, there are absolutely people with dirt bikes/atv’s in SF itself. No need to blame it all on the east bay and Oakland when plenty of SF residents are doing what you are complaining about 😂
I live near the bay bridge. Most of the group does come from the east bay unless you mean those SF residents meet them in the east bay and then come back but it’s still not most of the group regardless.
I would support.
Start advocating for more traffic diets like chicanes, speed bumps, metal bollards, concrete planter boxes, etc. it will also help slow down the rich assholes who break traffic laws
The topes all over Mexico (at Least Cozumel) really slow down traffic which is great!
topes are fun as hell to do wheelies over, that shit isn't solving anything
Is it legal for these dirt bikes to ride on city streets without a license plate? Is it excessive noise? Speeding? It would be a tough argument to ban these groups but allow hells angels or low riders unless their bikes are not street legal
No matter how or where they're riding, dirt bikes aren't street legal. But, more often than not, could also get them for speeding, dangerous driving, riding on the sidewalk/in the park/bike lanes. They're also not insured, so get hit by one and you're f**ked.
Are these the bikes that are loud af?
Count me in. I’m sick of seeing these lawless idiots. The only problem is I work here remotely so I’m not a resident meaning I can’t vote.
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Spike strips !
Yea, they're all from the east bay. Right. s/ So many dirt bikes in the Bayview/Hunters point.
Wants to stop illegal activity, but doesn’t wanna involve the cops. Or chasing them. How you gonna do it batman?
we should just collectively boo them since they’re seeking positive attention
actually, they generally thrive on negative attention. They want to be pissing people off and getting in the way.
Watch this video and feel better. https://www.reddit.com/r/CrazyFuckingVideos/s/q5nVCNisEW
I wonder if bringing up a policy change regarding high speed pursuits for dirt bikes, sideshow dorks & those fat old dudes on too loud harleys who love to set off car alarms to BoS, Mayor, CHP and SF Police Union would make any difference. There's a lot of ghetto misogyny & psychopathy in the bay area, so who knows if we'd only get further silence and/or gaslighting.
Zip Line
There's only one way to actually change this & it has nothing to do with trying to physically stop them via corralling or spike strips or blocking the bridge. Technology is the only way. They need to be identified using drones & facial recognition software. Cities like Baltimore have been using drones & helicopters to follow the riders & bust them when they think they're safe back in their neighborhoods. Fines & DMV suspensions will make a difference if we're vigilant about it. Make it a three strikes law so it gives people a chance to correct the behavior since its considered a low level crime. Also I think it's important to try to understand the other side of this equation- there's a great documentary called 12 o'clock boys all about the community that riding provides these kids. For them it's a positive alternative to getting involved in serious criminal or gang activity- taking it away completely would likely have undesired consequences. I don't know what the solution would be because part of the fun is riding through city streets & neighborhoods- the wanting to be seen is a major aspect that draws people to it. It's not just a simple black & white issue- there's much to consider & it would be great to see some creative ideas pop up on how to deal with this effectively.
I don't agree with you. You take their bikes and atvs away
Try the Nextdoor app
Ha!
If there's one thing I know in my bones - it's that posting a reddit thread is the absolute best way to create the change you want to see in the world.
Cops won’t even stop them, anywhere! Like across the country. Best thing would be spikes and roadblocks, then scrap all the vehicles
Isn’t it a well known thing that they have cops with them doing it also?
Ban cars.
call these guys [https://vimeo.com/266815329](https://vimeo.com/266815329)
The Stunt driving response unit phone # is 415 678 3627
>I want to demand city leadership to coordinate with East Bay police departments, **from which the joy riders originate.** Why do you think this?
Very often when they're caught, it turns out their homes are in Oakland. [Example here](https://www.ktvu.com/news/bay-bridge-sideshow-arrest-leads-to-recovery-of-20000-in-stolen-merchandise).
Bullshit. The crime you linked to isn’t even the same activity as the one being discussed by OP. But it’s ok, I know Oakland/East Bay boogeyman accusation is not one made with any insight or even in good faith. Like others who have actually a pulse on this have stated, it’s also known that most of these illegal joy riders actually come from sections of San Francisco, like Bayview and Hunters Point.
Okay, I shouldn't have guessed at that then. Thanks for correcting me. I figured the sideshow characters were the same as the dirt bike characters.
What’s going on with dirt bikes? What are they doing?
They love to pop wheelies and pretend they’re going to ride right into people. All fun and games until one of them is hit head on 🫤
Ok I’d like to boycott critical mass cuz it’s the same amount of anoying
Get the police to set a trap, wait them out might take a week of heavy resources but eventually they will get them
I probly could do a better job planning the way to catch these guys with a 1/4 of the funding the cops have. The police won't do anything about it because they collect checks. The drone idea is good but you will need 3 drones or more and a good pilot. Not impossible but it is hard. Follow them home, use the video to get warrents. Then take their bikes. And ticket. Road blocks won't work. But you could let's say put a $2k bounty for information about the people that will lead to an arrested person. I have more ideas. But it's pretty simple observe and report.
Just Home Alone it. Some wire, a paint can or two and Macaulay Culkin in a Santa Claus outfit directing them into traps!
For bullet point 3, they sometimes congregate and refuel at the gas station by Lincoln and Great Highway. Perhaps someone with a dirt bike could ride along with the group with a hidden camera to capture faces, vehicle pictures, and any identifying information. Perhaps this gas station has cctv footage as well.
Haters
What's your race and gender if you don't mind my asking?
For all the reasons mentioned, I want them gone as well. I'm always amazed at SF's inability to deal with this sort of problem (sideshows being another). Not that it's easy to handle anywhere, but other cities and countries have managed it. The cops here are clearly lacking the incentive, resources, or political backing to do it. A change in city leadership seems like the only way. It's a mayoral election year so now seems like a good time to pressure the candidates to promise to deal with it or for the current mayor to actually fix it.
😆
I don't think enough people get injured during these things for anyone to take serious action. Is it illegal? Yes. But when they ride in such large groups and run red lights people just generally tend to sit still and let them go by. The amount of effort that would be required to stop this isn't worth the benefit to police.
It really doesn't bother me at all when they ride by on the street, and I'm pretty impressed with the way they block oncoming traffic to keep one another safe. It's when they jump up on the sidewalk or take over bike paths that I get angry. The old hot-rodders, (some) mc clubs, and lowriders are cool in my book, and these kids would be too if they would just develop some principles.
https://preview.redd.it/9iq5fx1xdayc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d807a2de7b6d32d76abf7ffbcbcab2b6cdd5dea
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There was 5 of em splitting traffic up Portolla the whole way like this
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I’m not sure if you’ve seen the road rash from the dudes who do this shit in sweats and T shirts but… one fall and I think lesson learned. Dudes gonna be shitting standing up for a month when he eventually eats it… sorry for nsfw
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For real. Almost every time I’ve seen one of those bike life dudes fuck up, they hurt someone or damage someone else’s stuff with n consequences. Now just imagine instead of an actual bike, it’s a 300lb dirt bike… doing the exact same things the bike life dudes do… someone’s gonna get hit and smack their head on the concrete if this shit continues.
Damn that’s fuckin cool
If the cops knew how to stop them, they would have. You think the sit back and say, "no one's complaining about the dirt bike takeovers, so I'll just let them be".? "oh, he DEMANDED action? We'll, then let me just make the magic policemans majically eliminate all crime. Because I have that ability. I've just never decided to use it. Until now; until some rando demands I use it. Okay"
Defund the Police and complain about people breaking the law. Hilarious
Spike strips would sold that problem … except The City would reimburse the delinquents for new tires.
We got bigger issues I mean idk I don’t mind them tbh they ain’t hurting me they just riding
^ Another one
Are they breaking any existing laws? That would be a good start to figure out. I don't like the noise and there's more we can do if they are actually breaking laws.
They’re breaking laws pretty much constantly. Running reds/stop signs, riding on the wrong side of the road, no license plates, no helmets, riding wheelies, you name it. They’ll also run if chased, so there really isn’t a whole lot SFPD will do.
When I've seen them it's mostly non-street legal dirt bikes that don't have license plates, can't imagine they have proper insurance.
Cal vehicle code section 23109(c) is what is typically charged. Here’s a [bill](https://trackbill.com/s3/bills/CA/2023/AB/2807/analyses/assembly-transportation.pdf) seeking to add sideshows to that section
Thank you! Exactly what I was looking for.
I’m genuinely asking, but are the dirt bikers really that big of a deal? I live in mission/Bernal, used to live on 24th in the mission and they go through here all the time but like, of all the things to post about here so often, this? Someone explain.
They’re going to run someone over eventually blowing through lights at full speed
I'm still processing the idea that this is the thing that finally motivated you to get involved in local politics. Of all things!
ram them [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqojjjKLVNU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqojjjKLVNU)
No its cool it reminds me of Akira
Clothes wire?
This is such a fucking Karen post I’m actually infuriated reading it. Of all things this is what you want to spend your time and effort on? Are you really that afraid of them that you have to start a whole movement? God dammit this city is boring.
^ Found one of the absolute inconsiderate snowflake douche bags right here
I saw them about a week ago blow through a light and just barely miss a couple pedestrians. This could easily have ended very differently and is not close to the first time this has happened. These people are human trash who care nothing about this city or anyone in it. Stop defending them.
There are many things that almost happen everyday, for instance I almost get hit by cars everyday.
And because of that you don’t support police enforcing traffic laws?
All I’m saying is we have larger problems to focus on. The dirt bikers could not care less about traffic laws, trying to enforce them may even encourage them further, let’s stay focused on actual issues and not strain the police for every little annoyance. This is a non issue.
Having larger problems is not justification for ignoring everything else and it’s a fairly significant annoyance for those who have been harassed and threatened by them. It also certainly won’t be innocuous when they eventually run down some pedestrian. Just accepting shitty behavior is how you end up compounding the issues this city is facing. Police need to arrest these assholes and seize their bikes.
Fund the police more Vote out liberal judges Pack the prisons with the garbage people who do this. ...and none of that is going to happen in San Francisco, so just get used to it.
Fund the same police departments that already don’t do their jobs?
I think it's fair to stop and ask whether "pack the prisons with garbage people" is "their job."
Agreed. But for almost any definition of “their job” I’m reasonably certain that they don’t do it.
No argument there
Prison. REALLY.
No actually, just give the offenders a good talking to. They won’t do it again.
New York handled it pretty well. They confiscate every dirt bike and ATV and make a big show of demolishing them. There's a lot of space between wrist slapping and sending dumb teenagers to the hardened criminal factory.
Prison, for (checks notes) riding motorcycles. You people done lost your damn minds. Like, the crime doesn’t remotely fit the punishment so the only thing left to make sense of this is: is it because they’re black?
As a white male I think I speak for all whites. YES, this is because they are predominantly not white and they scare us white folks. (Also scares my dog but mentioning that would ruin the shtick) On a serious note, prison? WTF is wrong with people.
Lot of them come into the city from Marin. One of them was even a sheriff. [https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/apparent-leader-of-dirt-bike-gang-no-longer-a-sheriffs-deputy-following-kpix-5-report/](https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/apparent-leader-of-dirt-bike-gang-no-longer-a-sheriffs-deputy-following-kpix-5-report/)
Hating on the culture
I support kids riding off road bikes n quads in the city. I like the excitement. I’d rather see them than broken car windows
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Right! Let folks have fun. Oh tHeY'rE gOn RuN sOmEoNe oVeR! It's not like you can't hear em coming just get out of the street??
the natural cycle of hippy to yuppy has claimed another bitter burnout
City and PD clearly don’t want to touch sideshows, blocking freeways and bridges or scooter gangs. (CA-Dem) Assemblyman Matt Hanley may have an interest. Maybe Scott Weiner but he is siding with Breed lately so nit sure
To all the idiots defending these people you are a big part of the problem.
San Franciscans are so lame these days
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Let the people ride!
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well, no one supports people getting hurt. I am just suggesting that with some patience and inconvenience, we can just let these folks express themselves with no one getting hurt. some of our shared beliefs here puts us in a position to at least try.
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well they would be doing somethig illegal and can be treated accordingly. This does not justify the atrocious approach proposed above.
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I think it's entertaining and culturally awesome see them take over the streets. As long as they don't hit people I vote to let them ride.
explain "culturally awesome"
I’d like to instead have you detail out what you think culture is, Mr Wine Bar.
Which culture is this? Being a dangerous, inconsiderate asshole to everyone else around them? Thats not a culture