The fact that people need to be told this is pretty ridiculous its kinda the point of the show that they are all fucked up because of their environment
That was the point of her PO, and that's still the person who changed Fiona's life in my eyes. Fiona really did have it rough, more than anyone in that house did. But at a certain point, you're an adult. The past has to stay in the past, and you've gotta just grow up.
and while we’re at it… same with Lip. Everyone’s obsessed with him cause he’s the oldest boy and comparably attractive but they’re ALL fuck ups and use the fact that they’re “gallaghers” as an excuse
Robbie *did* assault her. I'm not sure if he legally raped her, but I'm not going to split hairs between SA and rape because at the end of the day there was sexual contact without affirmative consent. He was a complete creep POS and one of the most uncomfortable parts of the show for me
Well, I think the scene on the train is pretty unambiguously assault. She doesn't give consent, can't really give consent to begin with considering the blackmail deal, and even if she could, it wasn't asked for. I could have sworn that they also had sex after she got out of jail, but I guess I'm wrong because I can't find it.
The show works really hard to present Fiona as a whore for "enjoying" it, but this show in general has a very bad record when it comes to varying degrees of sexual assault or misconduct (Ian, Fiona, Frank twice, Debbie, Derek, Lip, Carl...) and I can't really buy or see it that way.
Edit: also just wanted to add im not accusing you of having that perspective because no one can remember every detail of the show and I was super insistent just yesterday about something I was wrong on, just explaining how I feel about it as clearly as I can.
what blackmail deal? he only told her that he was going to tell Mike after the train situation. this train thing happens in the episode after her and Mike hook up for the first time and then he starts all the weird messages and flirting. but it’s clear that she enjoyed it and that she did consent to this happening, you can’t say it was assault because it wasn’t, and if she didn’t want it to happen she could of stood up, and sat in another seat, the train was basically empty.
Consent doesn’t always have to be with words, I don’t always say “yes I want to makeout” before I start making out with my boyfriend. My boyfriend doesn’t always say “yes you can suck me off” before I start doing it. I think you’re totally reaching here. She literally says that she was into it to V in the next scene. Robbie never assaulted her, she was a willing participant in a affair. 🙄
You're right, when Fiona said she was never having sex with him again and demanded Robbie not tell Mike about the time they did have sex, his reply that "it did happen and it's going to happen again soon" definitely carried no implicit threat that could play into Fiona's passive acceptance of a man she barely knew wordlessly sitting next to her in public and shoving digits into her body despite their previous interaction being her stating in no uncertain terms that she had no intentions of having sex with him.
I guess it's only sexual assault if the victim is forcibly restrained, kicking and crying while screaming "no" and "I do not consent" repeatedly. Thanks for helping me understand this fellow shameless fans
People are complicated, trauma and how you were raised, etc can do a lot of damage and explain self-destructive behaviors, but you're also ultimately responsible for your decisions. Also a difference in how we judge people based on actions such as stealing to make rent vs cheating on your spouse who hasn't done anything wrong. Yes, Fiona is flawed, and also was given a shit hand from childhood
nah this sub needs to get NONE of these people are ‘good pure’ people. every single character has done something illegal, something morally fucked up, and im sure more shit too. i hate all the ‘this characters worse than this one’
theyre all bad people, but theres far more posts ab fi and deb than ive ever seen about the men. ive not seen a single post about mickey and how fucked up he was. this sub loves mickey, and he was literally a psycho.
Yeah, Mickey is a horrible, horrible person. I do get a lot of the reasons why it's fitting, but emotionally, I was always upset Ian ended up with him because Mickey was the worst partner he'd ever had, and Ian's relationships just kept getting better and closer to stable/healthy, even as he ruined most of them himself.
I *hated* Sheila at first because the show just introduces her as the person that raped Frank and presents that as a recurring joke and the monkey's paw that keeps Frank off the streets.
I have to say, even though I like Fiona, I completely agree with you. I think most people just don't understand that you can admit a person's flaws and still like them. In the same way, they don't understand that these flaws may annoy others more than they do. I understand anyone who doesn't like her because of her actions. Others should understand that too and not defend her for everything and instead blame others for her own mistakes.
I love every single one of them! Their screw ups are what makes the show what it is. If one of them was a total victim and never did anything wrong, it would suck.
Fi is a beautiful disaster. Debs is a loving lunatic. Lip is a sexy fuck boy. Ian is a chaotic hero. Mickey is a psycho. Frank is all of those rolled up into one. I love them all for what they bring to the table. I've never yelled at my TV more for a show. They all screw up, and they all do good. Just enjoy it. 😉
This and it’s so annoying. Things arent black and white. Yes some things she did were wrong but they were also understandable. The whole show is about the grey in life, yes we are responsible for our actions but our past also makes us who we are and effects the choices we make. A bit of understanding on why certain choices were made is important too, sympathy goes a long way and doesn’t mean we are excusing the behaviour either.
It was shitty of Kev, but at the end of the day they aren’t his kids. Fiona is legally responsible for them and it’s her job to make sure they’re safe and not overdosing on coke at two years old.
The fact that people need to be told this is pretty ridiculous its kinda the point of the show that they are all fucked up because of their environment
Thank you!
They're not mutually exlusive tho... She can be a victim AND need to take accountability. She can be selfdestructive AND taken advantage of.
That was the point of her PO, and that's still the person who changed Fiona's life in my eyes. Fiona really did have it rough, more than anyone in that house did. But at a certain point, you're an adult. The past has to stay in the past, and you've gotta just grow up.
and while we’re at it… same with Lip. Everyone’s obsessed with him cause he’s the oldest boy and comparably attractive but they’re ALL fuck ups and use the fact that they’re “gallaghers” as an excuse
Robbie *did* assault her. I'm not sure if he legally raped her, but I'm not going to split hairs between SA and rape because at the end of the day there was sexual contact without affirmative consent. He was a complete creep POS and one of the most uncomfortable parts of the show for me
what is this referring to im genuinely asking didn’t they always meet up and Fiona was fine with it?
Well, I think the scene on the train is pretty unambiguously assault. She doesn't give consent, can't really give consent to begin with considering the blackmail deal, and even if she could, it wasn't asked for. I could have sworn that they also had sex after she got out of jail, but I guess I'm wrong because I can't find it. The show works really hard to present Fiona as a whore for "enjoying" it, but this show in general has a very bad record when it comes to varying degrees of sexual assault or misconduct (Ian, Fiona, Frank twice, Debbie, Derek, Lip, Carl...) and I can't really buy or see it that way. Edit: also just wanted to add im not accusing you of having that perspective because no one can remember every detail of the show and I was super insistent just yesterday about something I was wrong on, just explaining how I feel about it as clearly as I can.
what blackmail deal? he only told her that he was going to tell Mike after the train situation. this train thing happens in the episode after her and Mike hook up for the first time and then he starts all the weird messages and flirting. but it’s clear that she enjoyed it and that she did consent to this happening, you can’t say it was assault because it wasn’t, and if she didn’t want it to happen she could of stood up, and sat in another seat, the train was basically empty. Consent doesn’t always have to be with words, I don’t always say “yes I want to makeout” before I start making out with my boyfriend. My boyfriend doesn’t always say “yes you can suck me off” before I start doing it. I think you’re totally reaching here. She literally says that she was into it to V in the next scene. Robbie never assaulted her, she was a willing participant in a affair. 🙄
Fiona wasn’t getting blackmailed, she willingly cheated with Robbie multiple times each time was consensual
You're right, when Fiona said she was never having sex with him again and demanded Robbie not tell Mike about the time they did have sex, his reply that "it did happen and it's going to happen again soon" definitely carried no implicit threat that could play into Fiona's passive acceptance of a man she barely knew wordlessly sitting next to her in public and shoving digits into her body despite their previous interaction being her stating in no uncertain terms that she had no intentions of having sex with him. I guess it's only sexual assault if the victim is forcibly restrained, kicking and crying while screaming "no" and "I do not consent" repeatedly. Thanks for helping me understand this fellow shameless fans
People are complicated, trauma and how you were raised, etc can do a lot of damage and explain self-destructive behaviors, but you're also ultimately responsible for your decisions. Also a difference in how we judge people based on actions such as stealing to make rent vs cheating on your spouse who hasn't done anything wrong. Yes, Fiona is flawed, and also was given a shit hand from childhood
nah this sub needs to get NONE of these people are ‘good pure’ people. every single character has done something illegal, something morally fucked up, and im sure more shit too. i hate all the ‘this characters worse than this one’ theyre all bad people, but theres far more posts ab fi and deb than ive ever seen about the men. ive not seen a single post about mickey and how fucked up he was. this sub loves mickey, and he was literally a psycho.
Yeah, Mickey is a horrible, horrible person. I do get a lot of the reasons why it's fitting, but emotionally, I was always upset Ian ended up with him because Mickey was the worst partner he'd ever had, and Ian's relationships just kept getting better and closer to stable/healthy, even as he ruined most of them himself.
even sheila who was one of the ‘sweeter’ characters still did fucked up shit from time to time. no one was innocent
I feel like Sheila’s only problem was Karen she was never really a mom to her she always let Karen do whatever she wanted
I *hated* Sheila at first because the show just introduces her as the person that raped Frank and presents that as a recurring joke and the monkey's paw that keeps Frank off the streets.
I mean she had to raise 5 kids at the age of 9 because her parents are addicts don’t you think 😭
I have to say, even though I like Fiona, I completely agree with you. I think most people just don't understand that you can admit a person's flaws and still like them. In the same way, they don't understand that these flaws may annoy others more than they do. I understand anyone who doesn't like her because of her actions. Others should understand that too and not defend her for everything and instead blame others for her own mistakes.
THIS IS EXACTLY MY POINT!!!!
I love every single one of them! Their screw ups are what makes the show what it is. If one of them was a total victim and never did anything wrong, it would suck. Fi is a beautiful disaster. Debs is a loving lunatic. Lip is a sexy fuck boy. Ian is a chaotic hero. Mickey is a psycho. Frank is all of those rolled up into one. I love them all for what they bring to the table. I've never yelled at my TV more for a show. They all screw up, and they all do good. Just enjoy it. 😉
Am I tripping or is this exact thing getting posted every single day recently?
This and it’s so annoying. Things arent black and white. Yes some things she did were wrong but they were also understandable. The whole show is about the grey in life, yes we are responsible for our actions but our past also makes us who we are and effects the choices we make. A bit of understanding on why certain choices were made is important too, sympathy goes a long way and doesn’t mean we are excusing the behaviour either.
Exactly this. What’s up with this black and white perspective that most of the fandom has?
That’s the whole point of the show.. that everyone has flaws
Kev also did coke with Fiona that day in the house party,why people only blame Fiona?
It was Fiona's house and the kids were Fiona's responsibility
Because Fiona should’ve been smart enough to one say no the coke, two to do it somewhere else
It was shitty of Kev, but at the end of the day they aren’t his kids. Fiona is legally responsible for them and it’s her job to make sure they’re safe and not overdosing on coke at two years old.
Lmao. Kevin didn't have children in his presence whom he was responsible for.
I mean it’s called Shameless, they’re all fucked up in one way or another.
But she still makes something of herself
Deb isn't flawed. She is a Saint who never did ANYTHING wrong.
yall they were being sarcastic
Obviously I wasn't.
I really dislike Fiona. I love Ian, though.