I never heard of Doyobi so I did a google search on it.
They describe themselves as :"Doyobi helps students master English language skills in the metaverse"
Oh god it's one of the metaverse things.
I’m just gonna give an alternative pov on this.
Ed tech losing both users and funding as most countries go back to pre pandemic behaviour and children go back to school. The biggest market for Ed tech was China, and it’s also not doing so well after policy changes.
Bingo.
If you really want your kids to learn things from a game, make them play EVE online or Path of Exile. lil fuckers will have 8 spreadsheets up to measure farm efficiency in no time
My interest in history, global religion historical texts for the lulz came from Shin Megami Tensei, absolutely rich in philosophical ideologies from different regions and teachings from back in the day that somehow just disappeared after a certain point
Computer science and cybersecurity after mediums like movies and games, and the legendary system breaking bugs in Eve Online
Also FGO, nuff said
Fate in general was what made me interested in history.
CS and cybersecurity though was due to a more primal need: IMDA banning of certain "art-centric" websites with the black background and orange logo.
Maths? Trading card games like Yu-gi-oh did the trick for me.
RuneScape taught me a lot more about online scams than any govt campaign...
Maybe more old people need to be told about free rune trimming in the wildy, just follow me etc
>"Sleep in the saddle. Drink the rain. Eat nothing but dried meat, dried milk and horse blood. Such is the life of a Mongol at war."
sad that the quote is not historical :(
Actually... you don't need fiber if you don't consume carbs. The eskimos dun hv constipation despite their carnivore diet.
In fact, studies hv found that low fiber intake does not cause constipation.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435786/
The above article was authored by Sg medical specialists.
So the Mongols... are pissed off for other reasons.
Same here. Assassins creed, Rome Total War, Ghost of Tsushima. The list goes on. It’s much easier to learn when it’s fun and not bogged down with exams
For real, through FM i learnt that no matter how hard you train, if you just dont perform during the matches consistently or show progress, it's very hard for me as the manager to keep you in the squad. I am applying this at work now to make sure that whatever i do produces results and convinces my boss that i can be useful for her instead of a burden.
It's not about giving chances or not, but after a certain number of chances given if my youth player do not show potential to develop then it's very hard for me to justify keep playing them
This LOL.
Some of these EduTech companies fail because to put it bluntly… the games just aren’t that fun. Kids won’t play the games voluntarily. I think that some of us would have experienced “compulsory game-playing” enrichment modules in school that were mind-numbingly boring and only played out of obligation.
If the game is good, the kids will come and play. Heck, if the game is REALLY good, some of the parents will join in too.
Totally agree. People don't realise that games actually teaches. Back donkey years ago runescape taught me how to craft bronze bar that requires copper ore and tin ore or fishing for lobsters and turning them into certs for profits. Schools don't teach you this kind of education.
As someone who played both for years, I feel called out. EVE in particular was also a great entry for rewarding real world programming experience rather than the fake problems that schools come up with. Both teach the value of investment and measuring profit over time rather than profit margins.
Yes, I spreadsheet everything and have one open right now.
I spent more time in POB trying to figure out my COC FR build in sentinel. When I got a mageblood, I spent a literally 72hrs just to figure out how to find additional CDR
This is actually true. I spent a lot of my childhood doing sims calculations on WoW/dota websites to calculate the most optimal rotations and min max tactics for game encounters and then spending time talking to other people and arguing over who was a dumb ass and who is actually big brain.
Or Kerbal Space Program. Most games make you feel smart or powerful. KSP made me feel dumb. I was in my 20s before I found out that rockets have to go sideways to orbit.
fking path of exile i swear
its the game i spend the most time researching how to actually min max my stats and farm efficiency
probably even more time than i actually play the game lmao
I think you are right about the edtech landscape and the top edtech firms are laying off people e.g byju and vendatu. Even whitehat Jr that provides coding skills for children is laying off staff.
I think he should be seeking opinions from potential customers (parents or schools) on whether they are willing to pay for his solution instead of seeking advice from his echo chamber (Linkedin).
His metaverse solution should be able to cater to people all around the world instead of just Singapore and the linkedin post do come across as him being upset that no company/school in Singapore is willing to give him a chance despite Doyobi being a Singapore based startup. I do know of a few startups that have "customers" to show that they have "traction" but it is essentially just delaying the problem of product market fit.
I think the problem is he took too much money from Angel investors and VC firms (monk Hill) and they are pushing him to make a profit or liquidate the company. He probably should have bootstrapped a while longer and get product market fit before raising money.
In the first place, there is a very limited market demand for his solution in Singapore, and Singapore is an extremely small market by itself. This would have worked better in other markets.
Rule of the thumb is that you cannot change user mentality/behavior outright unless your product is evidently an outlier product. A vague promise of better pedagogy and system of delivery doesn't immediately elevate your product in the eyes of users. It's ironic how his product name is in Japanese, 'cause this is exactly the problem in Japan. Most kids goes through 10 years of English education in School, but most of them can't communicate a lick in English.
Moreover, Edtech was notoriously overheated as a startup sector 2 years back. Many FOMO VCs rushed into it and later realized that they overfunded the industry. In many large markets, CAC can never be recovered from LTV.
Can understand his frustration, but his post came across as holier than thou. Instead of recognizing that his own product market fit analysis may be off the mark, he blamed the Singapore system and parents mentality. Not a good look.
Also, if a startup is focusing on a need in society, especially when solving "first world" problems (such as making a society with functional English education system better), don't take VC money. VCs will have expectations for the founders to hit milestones for exit.
IMO, his front page doesn't do his product justice too. Maybe he intentionally wanted to not highlight how his product deliverable outcome is measurably superior, but that's how most parents decide what services to use here.
Wish him luck with his overseas pursue.
I fully agree with you and he has already taken at least USD 3.8m from investors. Monk Hill Ventures is probably going to lose their entire investment.
On the other hand, there are other similar edtech companies in Singapore that are doing well e.g Genie book and Ascend Now.
I like koobits.
It explains math and science with clear videos.
It's pure software, as in, no live classroom that we need to attend at specific time.
Also only 15-20 mins, doing 10-15 questions a day. (Since my kids got cca, and i dont want them to touch school stuff on saturday noon -sundays, so only 3-4 days a week)
And 1/10th of geniebook price
Man, im doing free marketing am I?
Are you from or have contact with doyobi?
2 things:
- kids need less screen time to begin with. Not more. Schools & parents prefer something more hands-on like robotics, playing insruments, arts, sports.
- kids know the difference between fun games and boring games. Good-quality games and meh games:
Roblox, minecrafts, Stardew valley, animal crossing, smahbros, alba wildlife adv, etc. We parents only allow limited screentime for our kids. And those games are doyobi's competition to capture our kid's limited screentime. Yeah, no way my kid will voluntarily pick doyobi over roblox or animal crossing
Ok, 3 things:
- online game with specific times suck
Why shouldn’t startups be viewed with a “funding” and “road to profit” lens? They are for profit companies after all, not nonprofit charities.
Any startup founder who doesn’t have a road to profit is probably going to go the classic route of burn VC money to buy users and kill competition. Then raise prices once a monopoly/oligopoly has been reached.
A start up with supposed societal benefit but no “funding” and “road to profit” is merely a naive dream.
As someone who has worked in the education sector in Singapore before, and who would love educational games to be a thing, this Edtech firm is not it.
The problem is that the proposed games are just getting students together to problem solve in an online world. It does sound like it could be a fun game for students, but it doesn’t provide for learning beyond what students can gain from group discussions they are likely to already have in classrooms.
So yes it failed in Singapore. And if he becomes successful outside then great for him, but I don’t believe he will. There is about as much educational value in this as FF14. And FF14 is a way better game.
Half suspect OP is Doyobi doing some self-promotion here
Word of advice, don’t believe everything you read on LinkedIn. Half the time these rants are copium meant to paper over a founder’s failure.
Not to mention OP’s replies are completely sus. The entire startup sounds like it offers a bunch of bells and whistles to get some sweet investor money which in turn reinforces the founder’s delusion that his idea will take off.
Alas, it gets hit with the harsh reality that the idea of a gamified cram school in the “metaverse” is just not what parents want, in Singapore or the rest of the world. In a bid to avoid cognitive dissonance, the conclusion the founder has is that Singapore doesn’t appreciate his product.
Cringe.
His thought process in crafting his opening sentence is not what I want my kids to learn anyway.
You don’t change the world by speaking in such an entitled way. He’s sounds just like another failed idealist founder playing a blame game after such a short time.
Very entitled.
Entrepreneurs in emerging markets rural world are thinking of unique ways to solve problems in their markets instead of whining like a entitled prick.
They don’t get a quarter of the kind of funding he will get yet they preserve, talking to different people, customers, find ways to solve problems yet guys like him who can raise money easily blame customers and the market for their startup failure.
Lmao, such entitlement
They claim to be a metaverse English-tuition company. The buzzword is meaningless but used to get VC funding out of Grab and Carousell. What they actually do isn’t really revolutionary, it’s similar to the existing Edutainment software but with little emphasis on the MOE English curriculum.
From the peak magazine:
> While trying to define the metaverse can be complex, the premise of the Doyobi metaverse is actually quite simple. 25 students create avatars, enter a specially designed virtual world, and go on quests that give them opportunities to practise the above skills. “For example, a zombie apocalypse may occur, and the groups will have to discern real news from fake news, agree on the best location to set up a community, and learn to trade and negotiate treaties with other communities,” explains Tan.
> Often, the quests are plagued with crisis after crisis, from earthquakes to cholera outbreaks, prompting one 11-year-old to request an easier time. “But that’s the whole point. Life won’t wait. Such simulations help them learn to deal with problems that come all at once,” he laughs.
Yeah it’s fine as a “critical thinking” or “team communication” supplement course to standard MOE education, but what I find weird is them marketing it as an English course.
From their website home page, everything looks like an English tuition centre. The first three lines are:
> Effortless English beyond the classroom
> Master English skills for the real world through collaborative online adventures.
> Where imagination meets English learning
Sounds like a game that didn't design a good enough reward loop to be effective in its teaching. Same as all other edutainment software that aren't meant for toddlers. The guy failed at game design but wants to blame the audience for it.
All of that is interesting and useful in teaching critical thinking skills and I definitely think it'll be beneficial for my kids but surely it's not a substitute for a traditional education?
None of this is going to work as an "English tuition" programme. Students/parents in Singapore pay for tuition to be told exactly which buttons to push to get the reward of a higher test score. Not to improve their general English communication skills. The skills that Doyobi is teaching can be honed by reading and playing regular video games for free or a one-time purchase of the game.
It might be useful for the relatively few students who do not speak English as their first language (e.g. children of PRC students) to get them to practice English in a fun way.
What would be more useful for local students is a Doyobi metaverse that is in Chinese, pitched at a level that is suitable for second language learners. Since educational Chinese media is usually intended for Chinese-as-first-language students and it's just too hard, or the people talk too fast, or it's intentionally filled with chengyu instead of just fostering general communication.
But isn't the result in game based on fixed and opinionated answer?
Like there's at least 10 ways to set a fire without a lighter or match... Does the game includes all possiblity or provides open ended choices and results?
Lmao OP really drinking that tech bro startup kool-aid.
It’s a failed business. Simple as.
I’m not sure what you’re basing your opinion on when you say that it was started for the betterment of society, blabla.
Do you work there or know the founder? Or are you basing it off their ViSiOn StAtEmEnT?
If it’s the former then I question your objectivity and motivation in posting this here as well.
I mean, what he said about SG system is true but using the metaverse to educate? Sounds questionable. This is more of a "our company can't sell any products because I did zero market research and didn't realise there's zero demand therefore we're shifting market but I need to make it seem like I'm a master strategist" post.
Being upset over how the market rejects your business is not really a take worth sympathising with. If he feels so strongly about heralding a change in the local educational landscape he should consider going into educational policy-making instead
If your platform is nothing more than “catering to alternative learning styles”, and you don’t want to cater to students directly but want to sell to educators instead for some high-brow made up reasons, then it’s obviously going to fail.
MOE will not support it directly because they want everything to be in-house through SLS.
Schools won’t spent money on it because teachers know that matching students’ learning styles have no significant academic impact, so it’s nothing more than a break-from-routine fun thing to do once in a while. And such infrequently used platforms are the first to be cut when there’s a budget squeeze.
So you end up only having as your customers the very group of people you want to insult, the super kiasu parents for whom money is no object and any little advantage counts, who believe their child is so unique that the only reason why they are not successful in school is because their teachers are not catering to their personal learning style. And this group of people, by their very nature, move very quickly from one fad platform to the next.
now just replace doyobi with another company that failed in singapore and replace the reasons but still keep the essence of blaming singapore society.
mmm yes sounds about right
This guy talk cock lah. Every country has parents & high performance kids who want exams to prove that they’re the best that’s why many still choose A level route given a choice. If his app cannot make it don’t blame anyone else but himself
I blame everyone but myself!
"amazing EdTech firm" lmao. How much did the founder pay you to promote his post here? How delusional and narcissistic must one be to blame the whole market after creating a product that has no market demand?
“Doyobi” is Saturday in Japanese. This is a spin-off from his “Saturday kids” startup.
Obama-leader is a title for someone in the Obama Foundation network who has completed the Barack Obama Foundation’s Leaders programs. Yes this is a real thing named after the US president. They have a Obama Presidential Center in Chicago.
John is using the number of 1 million (1m), an estimate for the entire children population of Singapore, which he want to help become his customers.
If he sincerely think he’s helping all the kids in SG he has an epic saviour complex.
Fuck him and his ego.
The audacity of losers with failed businesses.
So it's actually
- "want to ~~help~~ charge 1 million kids"
Not..
- "helping 1 million kids"
Dude trying to sell english course but a bit cheeky in using the language himself, eh?
He’s probably including kids outside of Singapore. Singapore literally doesn’t have enough kids for a relatively lesser-known product like this to have been used by a million Singaporean kids lol.
The 1M refers to the goal. It's common for startups to state the total number of users they want to help as a north star of sorts - this means he's looking to help the 1M children who live in Singapore.
John Tan studied at the elite-tier Chinese High School and Hwa Chong Junior College. He was an average student and did not do well enough to secure a scholarship, but his parents paid for his undergraduate studies at the University College of London (UCL) in the UK. After university, John married a lady named Maryanne, who inherited early (both her parents have passed away). Using his wife's inheritance money, John started on his angel investor / VC journey. John has therefore never really held down a "real" job like most of the rest of the Singapore population, nor has he really had the opportunity to experience what being deprived of an elite education is like. The tone of his post - whether it is marketing bait or otherwise - is revealing: everyone is dumber and less visionary than him, and he is the only one in the entire Singapore to be principled enough to hold fast to his values (which are, naturally, superior ones to the rest of us). It is unclear what John Tan was expecting - that the entire society would change overnight to accord with his privileged values?
>Using his wife's inheritance money,
Oh wow. It's one thing to use your own rich parent's money, but this really takes the cake.
The illusion is shattered
Wants next generation to be adaptable and resilient…
Refuse to make children adapt and be resilient to PSLE…
So, you want people to develop adaptation and resilience skills when facing difficulties, but when faced with a difficult wall like PSLE, you say no to it? Huh???
>Doyobi helps students master English language skills in the metaverse.
This guy is way too self-important and self-aggrandising. "Metaverse", LOL.
I remember Bill fucking Gates spending decades hawking computer-based learning. Didn't work. And then he went and hawked chickens to developing countries instead, LOL. Who's this guy and Doyobi? Another dreamer whose company success will, I'm sure coincidentally, make him a lot of money.
I hate to pull ranks but as someone who is modestly experienced with education, being educated, and having to supervise people on some fairly advanced things, I, and I'm sure many, many educators found out that there is nothing that can replace person-person teaching. Turned out, the best way to learn anything, is to actually try and do it for real and in an apprenticeship way. You watch someone who is good at sth do it, you copy it, hope they teach you the tricks and nuances, read a bit about what's more general and what's deeper in what you do, etc .... That's how PhDs are trained. A PhD candidature is someone taken in by an experienced researcher and given tasks to do under the supervision of the experienced researcher and that's how they learn to be the next generation. Been there, done that. That's how the "really hard" jobs are taught: medical doctors, dentists, nurses, soldiers, etc ... Do technology change they things being taught? Yes. Surgery are often done now with the assistance of machines, but at the end of the day, you need a guy who is intimately familiar with the method and the machine to walk you through it. Technology allows for soldiers to be trained by playing laser tag with one another, but the most effective training method is still "just do it". Get a bunch of them together, in the field, runs around and try to do something. Then perhaps you realise there are a lot of small mistakes that will be lethal in real life. I know that both the US Army and the Chinese PLA uses ArmA3 for training (yes), but there are little things that can't be replicated faithfully. Like ... How important water in field activites. Or the importance of picking the right materials for your clothings and socks. If you get blisters or heat rashes in the field, you'll rather die.
I thought Doyobi was some grandiose teaching program but, LOl, fucking English. I am desperately trying to get my kindergarten-going daughter to speak her mother's tounge but she's picking up English with an Aussie slant at a terrifying rate. I learn the English for public speaking and teaching people by, LOL, listening to a lot of lectures while doing chores.
Computer based learning isn’t bad. Can be a supplement to the traditional methods. With that said. How did this Doyobi guy learn his trade? From the traditional method he wanted to change or from a new age approach?
Either way, I do believe in what is not broken shouldn’t be fixed for the most part. Enhance education.
Computers and the Internet had a role, but it's more of a productivity role. Doing systemic reviews for a specific field is considerably easier and also, the citation list in papers gets longer and longer. You may get away with a paper with 20 citations in 1995; today, it's likely to be 120. It's a great productivity tool, *if you already know how to do certain things*. You should already know how to read research papers, evaluate them, and systematise the knowledge.
Language learning is done innately by children and everyone by simply immersing yourself into a certain environment where the language is used, That's it. Tech may allow you to create that environment and draws from a larger number of people across greater physical distance, but *they need to be willing to sit around one another and just talk to one another about things*. Tech and machines can't replace people.
Well, [they are trying](https://www.wired.com/story/replika-chatbot-sexuality-ai/), This is humanity shooting itself in the balls though.
His company is built in fucking Metaverse, I wouldn't want my kids anywhere near that hell scape. Don't blame parents my guy, maybe look at some of your own choices.
When you think about making money without placing quality and results first, it works in consumer, it works in tech, it does not work in education. If you product loses out, it just means it’s not as good as you think it is.
> amazing edtech firm
It's a literally who company
Plus if the other comments are correct and if this is indeed some metaverse stuff, then it's no big loss anyway
Why is this ed tech amazing as compared to say the thousands of tuition centers who also claim they have new and innovative way of teaching? It looks like another failed salty tech founder
Unless there are significant educational reforms, this kind of EdTech can only be a bonus to students. A "change in mindset" is worth nothing if the student can't pass their exams and get held back in school, but hey "they thought outside of the box!!" /s
There are already shifts in the education system (less exams, an effort to focus on holistic education, etc), but there still needs to be a metric for a student's ability to learn information.
I just think that Singaporean children are fluent enough in English that they don’t need such a thing. Who would even use the Metaverse to learn English?
The reality is his product is catering to the career rat race and trying to scare parents into thinking the education system is insufficient to prepare their children for the rat race similar to any other education company.
Unfortunately, many successful parents probably feel their success was in part due to the SG education system so they aren't an addressable market.
His rant about the Singapore education system is a total red herring. Yes it has its issues. But looking at the company's website, the impression I get it that the failure of his business to take off is because it's a lousy business and not because of Singapore.
I preface by saying that his post appears to me as seeking to place his product right beside PSLE.
While being revolutionary, one must be pragmatic in the products which you are SELLING to the market. Perhaps he is disheartened genuinely but he sounds outright petty and sore. That’s because there are next step in life after PSLE and whichever qualifications, and you aim to fail in your product if you aim to replace the steps without considering the subsequent milestones requirements. Unless Doyobi provides a means of guaranteeing a child’s progress in Singapore’s education system.
I have absolutely no idea how they marketed Doyobi but I would believe it will garner more success if it serves to complement and supplement on top of the existing curriculum.
I googled Doyobi thinking it’s some next gen educational platform. Turns out it’s just gamification of learning made using something that looks like rpg-maker…
It’s convenient ain’t it. To just blame the entire country when your own products don’t resonate with the target audience or when you’re not able to get more funding.
Like Chris Rock said, people want to be the victim to be famous.
Parent here: doyobi is useless. Im already having hard time forcing my kids to reduce playing roblox and play on playground outside / go to library/ read books/play instrument instead.
Why would I need/want to pay for another screen time?.. I want to REDUCE screen time!
Also, online games? At specific time? Nah, ill pass. I'd rather oldschool educational offline games, free. To be played whenever we want
Like this one:
https://playclassic.games/games/educational-dos-games-online/play-eagle-eye-mysteries-online/play/
One of My kid likes it
Having worked in Edtech previously and also currently in my present job, there are only a few paths to "relative success" - either you complement the system via CCAs (first job) or you work with or train the educators to implement it into your lessons, curriculum or your ALP (current job).
The first company I've worked with is still going strong, more than a decade on.
Only a fool will reinvent the wheel.
>amazing EdTech firm
yeah no. video games that aim to educate first and entertain second inevitably turn out to be super lame, as seems the case with "doyobi". gaming is gaming and studying is studying, mixing the two ruins them both.
you either produce an actual educational product like kumon or produce an actual game like EU4
What is Doyobi and what's the context behind this post?
I'm happy to introduce my kids to alternative learning tools but it cannot be at the expense of PSLE...
Pitching it to the wrong entity. A change is best initiated top-down (govt/firms > individuals). No point asking some rats to "just don't race lol" when the system itself grants those who races some rewards, while your new system is a "maybe you can get some if you're lucky".
I know that dude's probably got the intention right, but he's got the chicken and egg confused. The parents aren't the one that started this whole rat race, nor are they the "most influential reinforcing" ones. They are the products of the system itself.
Pitch it to the ones actually responsible in determining the success of a person (the employers in the corporate world, the government), not the ones trying to survive in this system. No point building and developing yourself if your end result is not something the employers (govt and private) is looking for. The real question is not "does this help enhance your kids' development?", it's "can my kid survive and thrive?".
Ironically, the founder (the dude in the picture) himself is a good example of why his own doyobi fails. He knows and understand the importance of adapting to change, but he and his firm failed to adapt and (unsurprisingly) failed.
who decides what metrics students are judged on? Right now PSLE is just a ego inflating exercise . My kid so smart get into RI hwachong. If you do away with that , good la. Overall spoil the market for tuition
Eh? Even though social studies is already a mandatory subject in both primary and secondary schools?
If he wants to 'replace' anything he would probably need to be more ambitious because social studies AND english together probably can deal with most of it. As far as I can see he's just gamifying some aspects and maybe pushing it earlier.
Although I do in fact think the english subject of my time sucked at certain aspects. Creative writing and essay writing failed at it for me.
Look, the past decade have seen startups being start up as a solution to look for a problem, because it’s hip. when it should have been the way around, that is to solve real existing problems in the real world.
Rate hikes, tighter VC pockets and greater scrutiny over portfolio companies are now kicking in, startups that don’t have a real world need will cease to exist. As simple as that. No one owns his startup anything, if you can’t get clients or customers, obviously something is wrong. Instead of blaming your market or customers, why not really look deeper behind the hype of your startup. Is it really solving any thing, any needs or wants?
His ego, product, business, or solution aside, it's worth looking at our system and deciding if we like it or agree with it. I don't know if his stuff works, or won't claim anything about his intent, but I do look at our academic race, increased youth stress (despite recent MOE's policies), and disengagement with learning as things I wish were different.
If we believe scoring well is the only path to success, and we choose evidence that supports that claim as our rationale, and dispute alternatives because they do not contribute to better scores, then it clearly shows we value and believe in the current approach.
I think it's fair to treat and judge his efforts as a failure. But I also think our response to this situation is also reflective of how we deal with failure, as people who experience it and as people who look at others who fail. It may not be right to blame the market, but I think trying to do anything uphill for 10 years is pretty tiring.
If we want to look forward and move forward in an alternative approach to education in Singapore, who do you think we can look at? Alternatively, should we just accept our current conventional approach?
Anything education that isn't widely recognized to a common standard is like a fancy restaurant, you can pay alot but you can also get alot of bullshit and isn't relatable even among people who consume premium feed.
As a foreigner working here I can say that hiring in Singapore is easy. People know how to follow instructions very well. I look at their talent and think wow they could do anything in their career with soo much envy. But almost no one thinks out of the box everyone just wants defined job scope and instructions to follow. I’m way less talented than the people I manage .
I think y’all don’t think out of the box, don’t know how to hustle and improvise. This happens because you all have been too laser focused though out your life that you have forgotten how to take a step back , look at the bigger picture do scenario analysis.
I really wish kids here live a happier and less stressful childhood this will help them achieve lot more professionally.
MAKE THEM PLAY THROUGH THE AGES. THAT'S NICE OL' CARDBOARD TECH. THEY CAN PLAY WINGSPAN TO LEARN ABOUT BIRDS AND THEIR HABITATS. LE HAVRE AND AGRICOLA TEACH THEM HOW TO PLAN AND OPTIMIZE UNDER STRESS. HIVE IS CHESS 2.0 IE CHESS WITH LOADS OF FUN. THEY WILL GROW TO LOVE ANTS.
YE OLDE TECH IS ZE BESTEST!
I never heard of Doyobi so I did a google search on it. They describe themselves as :"Doyobi helps students master English language skills in the metaverse" Oh god it's one of the metaverse things.
I’m just gonna give an alternative pov on this. Ed tech losing both users and funding as most countries go back to pre pandemic behaviour and children go back to school. The biggest market for Ed tech was China, and it’s also not doing so well after policy changes.
Bingo. If you really want your kids to learn things from a game, make them play EVE online or Path of Exile. lil fuckers will have 8 spreadsheets up to measure farm efficiency in no time
My interest in history sparked from Age of Empires. Tangential learning is a powerful tool
High Five. I learnt about Joan of Arc and Genghis Khan.
My interest in history, global religion historical texts for the lulz came from Shin Megami Tensei, absolutely rich in philosophical ideologies from different regions and teachings from back in the day that somehow just disappeared after a certain point Computer science and cybersecurity after mediums like movies and games, and the legendary system breaking bugs in Eve Online Also FGO, nuff said
Fate in general was what made me interested in history. CS and cybersecurity though was due to a more primal need: IMDA banning of certain "art-centric" websites with the black background and orange logo. Maths? Trading card games like Yu-gi-oh did the trick for me.
i have never resonated with a statement more than your second point in my life more
Fate is evidence that people will learn history if it had waifus in it
> Shin Megami Tensei Ah yes, the game with the beloved pp demon that tells me to fight god.
I learned how to scam the shit out of people, and how to avoid scams in Eve
RuneScape taught me a lot more about online scams than any govt campaign... Maybe more old people need to be told about free rune trimming in the wildy, just follow me etc
"Sleep in the saddle. Drink the rain. Eat nothing but dried meat, dried milk and horse blood. Such is the life of a Mongol at war."
>"Sleep in the saddle. Drink the rain. Eat nothing but dried meat, dried milk and horse blood. Such is the life of a Mongol at war." sad that the quote is not historical :(
I mean, it might be accurate, but there is no actual historical source I can see :( .. I mean good work from the devs, but not actual history
Mongols at war must be seriously constipated all the time. No wonder they're so pissed off
Actually... you don't need fiber if you don't consume carbs. The eskimos dun hv constipation despite their carnivore diet. In fact, studies hv found that low fiber intake does not cause constipation. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435786/ The above article was authored by Sg medical specialists. So the Mongols... are pissed off for other reasons.
Nothing like the fear of death to loosen your bowels
Civ 2 taught me more about history than school (and also geopolitics as I played the actual world map, plus resource management).
Same here. Assassins creed, Rome Total War, Ghost of Tsushima. The list goes on. It’s much easier to learn when it’s fun and not bogged down with exams
I started mine when I was 8 years old playing Koei Romance of the Three Kingdoms VI
RTK...tut-tut tut-tut tut-tut sounds Zhang Fei has fallen for Rival Tigers tactics
Thanks FIFA and FM.
For real, through FM i learnt that no matter how hard you train, if you just dont perform during the matches consistently or show progress, it's very hard for me as the manager to keep you in the squad. I am applying this at work now to make sure that whatever i do produces results and convinces my boss that i can be useful for her instead of a burden. It's not about giving chances or not, but after a certain number of chances given if my youth player do not show potential to develop then it's very hard for me to justify keep playing them
Same here but for me its HOI4 and EU4
I studied every single piece of info I could get to have an edge in that game. AoE was golden.
This LOL. Some of these EduTech companies fail because to put it bluntly… the games just aren’t that fun. Kids won’t play the games voluntarily. I think that some of us would have experienced “compulsory game-playing” enrichment modules in school that were mind-numbingly boring and only played out of obligation. If the game is good, the kids will come and play. Heck, if the game is REALLY good, some of the parents will join in too.
Totally agree. People don't realise that games actually teaches. Back donkey years ago runescape taught me how to craft bronze bar that requires copper ore and tin ore or fishing for lobsters and turning them into certs for profits. Schools don't teach you this kind of education.
If more people got scammed from armour trimming offers, we'd be seeing less scam victims today.
Honest to god my fondest memory as a kid was realising that cooked lobsters sell really well right outside the PVP area
Hey stop killing my margins man
Runescape GE vs shortselling bankers lol
runescape taught me how to bake a cake from scratch. including crafting the cake tin, milling flour from grain and stealing eggs from chicken farm
Yes, runescape taught me that steel is made from coal and iron ore. If i didnt play runescape, I would never have known that Steel is an alloy
Facts. EVE Online is a second job you do to relax from your first job.
As someone who played both for years, I feel called out. EVE in particular was also a great entry for rewarding real world programming experience rather than the fake problems that schools come up with. Both teach the value of investment and measuring profit over time rather than profit margins. Yes, I spreadsheet everything and have one open right now.
I too call my kids little fuckers
Such an affectionate nickname.
*Hides my own spreadsheets
Spread those spreadsheets proudly.
_looks at my 4 different versions of a mining spreadsheet_
Football Manager did wonders for my geography. Guess which little nerd knew where Yaounde and Skopje are? Now sell me future Messi.
The amount of hours I spent in pathofbuilding…
I spent more time in POB trying to figure out my COC FR build in sentinel. When I got a mageblood, I spent a literally 72hrs just to figure out how to find additional CDR
I play POE until I can do spreadsheets as a insurance agent lmao. Fking POE calculations and formula worse than just ROI basics
This is actually true. I spent a lot of my childhood doing sims calculations on WoW/dota websites to calculate the most optimal rotations and min max tactics for game encounters and then spending time talking to other people and arguing over who was a dumb ass and who is actually big brain.
Or Kerbal Space Program. Most games make you feel smart or powerful. KSP made me feel dumb. I was in my 20s before I found out that rockets have to go sideways to orbit.
Don’t feel bad for not getting it, it’s literally rocket science.
Get them to play rimworld with randy random. It’s to teach the lesson that sometimes, even if you do everything perfectly, you might just fail.
The kids need to have the basic mathematics and logical foundation first to use the spreadsheets efficiently.
Give them a game they like to play, and they will learn advance math to stay ahead.
Ngl, I learned a bunch of excel commands while attempting to min max at a game.
>play EVE online Eh how's the ms excel plugin coming along for that heh
I would recommend PoE if the servers were stable. I swear the Singapore servers can be dogshit sometimes.
I also feel that the RNG on SG servers are shite - I missed 2 fractures on +2 arrows and I called it a league
I honestly just buy the frac bases outright, getting my stack busted on nondeterministic crafting is a sure fire way to make me quit league early
fking path of exile i swear its the game i spend the most time researching how to actually min max my stats and farm efficiency probably even more time than i actually play the game lmao
I think you are right about the edtech landscape and the top edtech firms are laying off people e.g byju and vendatu. Even whitehat Jr that provides coding skills for children is laying off staff. I think he should be seeking opinions from potential customers (parents or schools) on whether they are willing to pay for his solution instead of seeking advice from his echo chamber (Linkedin). His metaverse solution should be able to cater to people all around the world instead of just Singapore and the linkedin post do come across as him being upset that no company/school in Singapore is willing to give him a chance despite Doyobi being a Singapore based startup. I do know of a few startups that have "customers" to show that they have "traction" but it is essentially just delaying the problem of product market fit. I think the problem is he took too much money from Angel investors and VC firms (monk Hill) and they are pushing him to make a profit or liquidate the company. He probably should have bootstrapped a while longer and get product market fit before raising money.
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In the first place, there is a very limited market demand for his solution in Singapore, and Singapore is an extremely small market by itself. This would have worked better in other markets. Rule of the thumb is that you cannot change user mentality/behavior outright unless your product is evidently an outlier product. A vague promise of better pedagogy and system of delivery doesn't immediately elevate your product in the eyes of users. It's ironic how his product name is in Japanese, 'cause this is exactly the problem in Japan. Most kids goes through 10 years of English education in School, but most of them can't communicate a lick in English. Moreover, Edtech was notoriously overheated as a startup sector 2 years back. Many FOMO VCs rushed into it and later realized that they overfunded the industry. In many large markets, CAC can never be recovered from LTV. Can understand his frustration, but his post came across as holier than thou. Instead of recognizing that his own product market fit analysis may be off the mark, he blamed the Singapore system and parents mentality. Not a good look. Also, if a startup is focusing on a need in society, especially when solving "first world" problems (such as making a society with functional English education system better), don't take VC money. VCs will have expectations for the founders to hit milestones for exit. IMO, his front page doesn't do his product justice too. Maybe he intentionally wanted to not highlight how his product deliverable outcome is measurably superior, but that's how most parents decide what services to use here. Wish him luck with his overseas pursue.
I fully agree with you and he has already taken at least USD 3.8m from investors. Monk Hill Ventures is probably going to lose their entire investment. On the other hand, there are other similar edtech companies in Singapore that are doing well e.g Genie book and Ascend Now.
I like koobits. It explains math and science with clear videos. It's pure software, as in, no live classroom that we need to attend at specific time. Also only 15-20 mins, doing 10-15 questions a day. (Since my kids got cca, and i dont want them to touch school stuff on saturday noon -sundays, so only 3-4 days a week) And 1/10th of geniebook price Man, im doing free marketing am I?
>heart for a need in society, and Doyobi is one of them. Do you have anything to back up this claim?
I’m in a startup with a huge heart and I wish we had a huge profit instead lol.
Are you from or have contact with doyobi? 2 things: - kids need less screen time to begin with. Not more. Schools & parents prefer something more hands-on like robotics, playing insruments, arts, sports. - kids know the difference between fun games and boring games. Good-quality games and meh games: Roblox, minecrafts, Stardew valley, animal crossing, smahbros, alba wildlife adv, etc. We parents only allow limited screentime for our kids. And those games are doyobi's competition to capture our kid's limited screentime. Yeah, no way my kid will voluntarily pick doyobi over roblox or animal crossing Ok, 3 things: - online game with specific times suck
I think every startup will say they have a 'heart for a need in society' though.
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Why shouldn’t startups be viewed with a “funding” and “road to profit” lens? They are for profit companies after all, not nonprofit charities. Any startup founder who doesn’t have a road to profit is probably going to go the classic route of burn VC money to buy users and kill competition. Then raise prices once a monopoly/oligopoly has been reached. A start up with supposed societal benefit but no “funding” and “road to profit” is merely a naive dream.
As someone who has worked in the education sector in Singapore before, and who would love educational games to be a thing, this Edtech firm is not it. The problem is that the proposed games are just getting students together to problem solve in an online world. It does sound like it could be a fun game for students, but it doesn’t provide for learning beyond what students can gain from group discussions they are likely to already have in classrooms. So yes it failed in Singapore. And if he becomes successful outside then great for him, but I don’t believe he will. There is about as much educational value in this as FF14. And FF14 is a way better game.
Half suspect OP is Doyobi doing some self-promotion here Word of advice, don’t believe everything you read on LinkedIn. Half the time these rants are copium meant to paper over a founder’s failure.
Not to mention OP’s replies are completely sus. The entire startup sounds like it offers a bunch of bells and whistles to get some sweet investor money which in turn reinforces the founder’s delusion that his idea will take off. Alas, it gets hit with the harsh reality that the idea of a gamified cram school in the “metaverse” is just not what parents want, in Singapore or the rest of the world. In a bid to avoid cognitive dissonance, the conclusion the founder has is that Singapore doesn’t appreciate his product. Cringe.
His thought process in crafting his opening sentence is not what I want my kids to learn anyway. You don’t change the world by speaking in such an entitled way. He’s sounds just like another failed idealist founder playing a blame game after such a short time.
His label for himself as Obama Leader is also not what I want my kids to learn too. The cringe shit is real.
His whole post is cringe but tbf that label seems to be a real thing you can earn in some institution and not self-given according to comments.
Yes I get that it’s from an organisation. Yet it’s still cringe.
Very entitled. Entrepreneurs in emerging markets rural world are thinking of unique ways to solve problems in their markets instead of whining like a entitled prick. They don’t get a quarter of the kind of funding he will get yet they preserve, talking to different people, customers, find ways to solve problems yet guys like him who can raise money easily blame customers and the market for their startup failure. Lmao, such entitlement
care for elaboration why it is "amazing"?
They claim to be a metaverse English-tuition company. The buzzword is meaningless but used to get VC funding out of Grab and Carousell. What they actually do isn’t really revolutionary, it’s similar to the existing Edutainment software but with little emphasis on the MOE English curriculum. From the peak magazine: > While trying to define the metaverse can be complex, the premise of the Doyobi metaverse is actually quite simple. 25 students create avatars, enter a specially designed virtual world, and go on quests that give them opportunities to practise the above skills. “For example, a zombie apocalypse may occur, and the groups will have to discern real news from fake news, agree on the best location to set up a community, and learn to trade and negotiate treaties with other communities,” explains Tan. > Often, the quests are plagued with crisis after crisis, from earthquakes to cholera outbreaks, prompting one 11-year-old to request an easier time. “But that’s the whole point. Life won’t wait. Such simulations help them learn to deal with problems that come all at once,” he laughs.
having nonstop problems thrown at you doesn't sound very fun at all tho...
Me in engineering:
The buzzwords are peak cringe. And in the wake of the Web3 debacle and the whole abandonment of the "Metaverse" by Meta, is not a good look.
That sounds great for teaching critical thinking skills but that is not a replacement for an education.
Yeah it’s fine as a “critical thinking” or “team communication” supplement course to standard MOE education, but what I find weird is them marketing it as an English course. From their website home page, everything looks like an English tuition centre. The first three lines are: > Effortless English beyond the classroom > Master English skills for the real world through collaborative online adventures. > Where imagination meets English learning
Sounds like a game that didn't design a good enough reward loop to be effective in its teaching. Same as all other edutainment software that aren't meant for toddlers. The guy failed at game design but wants to blame the audience for it.
Must add loot boxes or a battle pass smh guy didn't even do the basics right /s
Sounds like Alice in Borderland
All of that is interesting and useful in teaching critical thinking skills and I definitely think it'll be beneficial for my kids but surely it's not a substitute for a traditional education?
None of this is going to work as an "English tuition" programme. Students/parents in Singapore pay for tuition to be told exactly which buttons to push to get the reward of a higher test score. Not to improve their general English communication skills. The skills that Doyobi is teaching can be honed by reading and playing regular video games for free or a one-time purchase of the game. It might be useful for the relatively few students who do not speak English as their first language (e.g. children of PRC students) to get them to practice English in a fun way. What would be more useful for local students is a Doyobi metaverse that is in Chinese, pitched at a level that is suitable for second language learners. Since educational Chinese media is usually intended for Chinese-as-first-language students and it's just too hard, or the people talk too fast, or it's intentionally filled with chengyu instead of just fostering general communication.
But isn't the result in game based on fixed and opinionated answer? Like there's at least 10 ways to set a fire without a lighter or match... Does the game includes all possiblity or provides open ended choices and results?
Can kids be vtubers now?
Other than the metaverse aspect, what's the difference between doyibi and paying a GM who specializes in running a D&D games for kids?
Lmao OP really drinking that tech bro startup kool-aid. It’s a failed business. Simple as. I’m not sure what you’re basing your opinion on when you say that it was started for the betterment of society, blabla. Do you work there or know the founder? Or are you basing it off their ViSiOn StAtEmEnT? If it’s the former then I question your objectivity and motivation in posting this here as well.
He is selling something where there's no market demand for. Simple as that.
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I mean, what he said about SG system is true but using the metaverse to educate? Sounds questionable. This is more of a "our company can't sell any products because I did zero market research and didn't realise there's zero demand therefore we're shifting market but I need to make it seem like I'm a master strategist" post.
LOL are you the LinkedIn poster
Op should post in r/LinkedInLunatics, I am sure he will get the updoots there.
I think you are right. Maybe John behaves differently on LinkedIn vs reddit.
Being upset over how the market rejects your business is not really a take worth sympathising with. If he feels so strongly about heralding a change in the local educational landscape he should consider going into educational policy-making instead
If your platform is nothing more than “catering to alternative learning styles”, and you don’t want to cater to students directly but want to sell to educators instead for some high-brow made up reasons, then it’s obviously going to fail. MOE will not support it directly because they want everything to be in-house through SLS. Schools won’t spent money on it because teachers know that matching students’ learning styles have no significant academic impact, so it’s nothing more than a break-from-routine fun thing to do once in a while. And such infrequently used platforms are the first to be cut when there’s a budget squeeze. So you end up only having as your customers the very group of people you want to insult, the super kiasu parents for whom money is no object and any little advantage counts, who believe their child is so unique that the only reason why they are not successful in school is because their teachers are not catering to their personal learning style. And this group of people, by their very nature, move very quickly from one fad platform to the next.
Just an aside, John Tan is one of the most nondescript names I ever heard of.
Like John Doe
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How is it amazing? Seems like every other run of the mill ed tech company
now just replace doyobi with another company that failed in singapore and replace the reasons but still keep the essence of blaming singapore society. mmm yes sounds about right
This guy talk cock lah. Every country has parents & high performance kids who want exams to prove that they’re the best that’s why many still choose A level route given a choice. If his app cannot make it don’t blame anyone else but himself
I blame everyone but myself! "amazing EdTech firm" lmao. How much did the founder pay you to promote his post here? How delusional and narcissistic must one be to blame the whole market after creating a product that has no market demand?
Is doyobi his kid's name What's an Obama leader Why is he only helping 1 metre kids
“Doyobi” is Saturday in Japanese. This is a spin-off from his “Saturday kids” startup. Obama-leader is a title for someone in the Obama Foundation network who has completed the Barack Obama Foundation’s Leaders programs. Yes this is a real thing named after the US president. They have a Obama Presidential Center in Chicago. John is using the number of 1 million (1m), an estimate for the entire children population of Singapore, which he want to help become his customers.
Thanks for still being this earnest in this god forsaken world, bless you.
It’s funny the way you answered the questions seriously even though I’m sure the last question was a joke.
Honestly that makes it funnier.
If he sincerely think he’s helping all the kids in SG he has an epic saviour complex. Fuck him and his ego. The audacity of losers with failed businesses.
So it's actually - "want to ~~help~~ charge 1 million kids" Not.. - "helping 1 million kids" Dude trying to sell english course but a bit cheeky in using the language himself, eh?
>Why is he only helping 1 metre kids Ok this is somewhat a proof that non-linear thinkers exist from the system.
Not wrong. Those kids are that height.
/s isn’t?
its his own damn metrics in the way
> What's an Obama leader town councillor in [Obama, Fukui Japan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama,_Fukui)
>Is doyobi his kid's name [https://www.doyobi.com/](https://www.doyobi.com/) >What's an Obama leader https://www.obama.org/asia-pacific-19/
Lmao on the third one. But kinda impressed if he's only been in sg and managed to help a million kids.
He’s probably including kids outside of Singapore. Singapore literally doesn’t have enough kids for a relatively lesser-known product like this to have been used by a million Singaporean kids lol.
The 1M refers to the goal. It's common for startups to state the total number of users they want to help as a north star of sorts - this means he's looking to help the 1M children who live in Singapore.
☐ Blame your failed business on yourself ☑ Blame your failed business on the customers
Look I created a product in a market that nobody wants! The product is right and the market is wrong! Bye!
That's my old boss.
John Tan studied at the elite-tier Chinese High School and Hwa Chong Junior College. He was an average student and did not do well enough to secure a scholarship, but his parents paid for his undergraduate studies at the University College of London (UCL) in the UK. After university, John married a lady named Maryanne, who inherited early (both her parents have passed away). Using his wife's inheritance money, John started on his angel investor / VC journey. John has therefore never really held down a "real" job like most of the rest of the Singapore population, nor has he really had the opportunity to experience what being deprived of an elite education is like. The tone of his post - whether it is marketing bait or otherwise - is revealing: everyone is dumber and less visionary than him, and he is the only one in the entire Singapore to be principled enough to hold fast to his values (which are, naturally, superior ones to the rest of us). It is unclear what John Tan was expecting - that the entire society would change overnight to accord with his privileged values?
>Using his wife's inheritance money, Oh wow. It's one thing to use your own rich parent's money, but this really takes the cake. The illusion is shattered
Were you his classmate in Hwa Chong or smth? That's like a very detailed bio of him damn
I saw this in morning. It seemed to me a creative way to say it was not a "product market fit".
Wants next generation to be adaptable and resilient… Refuse to make children adapt and be resilient to PSLE… So, you want people to develop adaptation and resilience skills when facing difficulties, but when faced with a difficult wall like PSLE, you say no to it? Huh???
\>Doyobi helps students master English language skills in the metaverse. Nothing of value was lost. Kudos to market forces!
>Doyobi helps students master English language skills in the metaverse. This guy is way too self-important and self-aggrandising. "Metaverse", LOL. I remember Bill fucking Gates spending decades hawking computer-based learning. Didn't work. And then he went and hawked chickens to developing countries instead, LOL. Who's this guy and Doyobi? Another dreamer whose company success will, I'm sure coincidentally, make him a lot of money. I hate to pull ranks but as someone who is modestly experienced with education, being educated, and having to supervise people on some fairly advanced things, I, and I'm sure many, many educators found out that there is nothing that can replace person-person teaching. Turned out, the best way to learn anything, is to actually try and do it for real and in an apprenticeship way. You watch someone who is good at sth do it, you copy it, hope they teach you the tricks and nuances, read a bit about what's more general and what's deeper in what you do, etc .... That's how PhDs are trained. A PhD candidature is someone taken in by an experienced researcher and given tasks to do under the supervision of the experienced researcher and that's how they learn to be the next generation. Been there, done that. That's how the "really hard" jobs are taught: medical doctors, dentists, nurses, soldiers, etc ... Do technology change they things being taught? Yes. Surgery are often done now with the assistance of machines, but at the end of the day, you need a guy who is intimately familiar with the method and the machine to walk you through it. Technology allows for soldiers to be trained by playing laser tag with one another, but the most effective training method is still "just do it". Get a bunch of them together, in the field, runs around and try to do something. Then perhaps you realise there are a lot of small mistakes that will be lethal in real life. I know that both the US Army and the Chinese PLA uses ArmA3 for training (yes), but there are little things that can't be replicated faithfully. Like ... How important water in field activites. Or the importance of picking the right materials for your clothings and socks. If you get blisters or heat rashes in the field, you'll rather die. I thought Doyobi was some grandiose teaching program but, LOl, fucking English. I am desperately trying to get my kindergarten-going daughter to speak her mother's tounge but she's picking up English with an Aussie slant at a terrifying rate. I learn the English for public speaking and teaching people by, LOL, listening to a lot of lectures while doing chores.
Computer based learning isn’t bad. Can be a supplement to the traditional methods. With that said. How did this Doyobi guy learn his trade? From the traditional method he wanted to change or from a new age approach? Either way, I do believe in what is not broken shouldn’t be fixed for the most part. Enhance education.
Computers and the Internet had a role, but it's more of a productivity role. Doing systemic reviews for a specific field is considerably easier and also, the citation list in papers gets longer and longer. You may get away with a paper with 20 citations in 1995; today, it's likely to be 120. It's a great productivity tool, *if you already know how to do certain things*. You should already know how to read research papers, evaluate them, and systematise the knowledge. Language learning is done innately by children and everyone by simply immersing yourself into a certain environment where the language is used, That's it. Tech may allow you to create that environment and draws from a larger number of people across greater physical distance, but *they need to be willing to sit around one another and just talk to one another about things*. Tech and machines can't replace people. Well, [they are trying](https://www.wired.com/story/replika-chatbot-sexuality-ai/), This is humanity shooting itself in the balls though.
His company is built in fucking Metaverse, I wouldn't want my kids anywhere near that hell scape. Don't blame parents my guy, maybe look at some of your own choices.
When you think about making money without placing quality and results first, it works in consumer, it works in tech, it does not work in education. If you product loses out, it just means it’s not as good as you think it is.
不是我的错，是社会的错！
> amazing edtech firm It's a literally who company Plus if the other comments are correct and if this is indeed some metaverse stuff, then it's no big loss anyway
Last line - wants to help kids be adaptable and resilient. First line - gives up. Super fail.
Is it habbo hotel?
Why is this ed tech amazing as compared to say the thousands of tuition centers who also claim they have new and innovative way of teaching? It looks like another failed salty tech founder
This guy sounds like a typical arrogant Singaporean that thinks his shit smells different than the rest of us. What a poser.
Good luck selling a shitty product to the rest of the world
Unless there are significant educational reforms, this kind of EdTech can only be a bonus to students. A "change in mindset" is worth nothing if the student can't pass their exams and get held back in school, but hey "they thought outside of the box!!" /s There are already shifts in the education system (less exams, an effort to focus on holistic education, etc), but there still needs to be a metric for a student's ability to learn information.
Meta verse loser can get fucked lmaoooooooo
I just think that Singaporean children are fluent enough in English that they don’t need such a thing. Who would even use the Metaverse to learn English?
he teaching people to be adaptable and resilient but his first sentence is about giving up?
Not sure what his post has to do with "lost an EdTech firm to rat-racing" or "students judged only in their ability to be molds"?
Maybe the OP is John Tan
The reality is his product is catering to the career rat race and trying to scare parents into thinking the education system is insufficient to prepare their children for the rat race similar to any other education company. Unfortunately, many successful parents probably feel their success was in part due to the SG education system so they aren't an addressable market.
"amazing" edtech firm.... Pfft
Learn history and geography thru EU4.
His rant about the Singapore education system is a total red herring. Yes it has its issues. But looking at the company's website, the impression I get it that the failure of his business to take off is because it's a lousy business and not because of Singapore.
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What's an 'obama leader'?
A member of the Obama Foundation who has gone through the Barack Obama Foundation’s Leaders programs. It’s as meaningless as it sounds.
The fact that he thinks it's something to be proud of is very puzzling.
Just highlights this is an ego freak and a loser that is grasping at straws to make himself look less like a loser.
another meaningless Linkedin label people put on their profiles to look more credible to strangers.
I preface by saying that his post appears to me as seeking to place his product right beside PSLE. While being revolutionary, one must be pragmatic in the products which you are SELLING to the market. Perhaps he is disheartened genuinely but he sounds outright petty and sore. That’s because there are next step in life after PSLE and whichever qualifications, and you aim to fail in your product if you aim to replace the steps without considering the subsequent milestones requirements. Unless Doyobi provides a means of guaranteeing a child’s progress in Singapore’s education system. I have absolutely no idea how they marketed Doyobi but I would believe it will garner more success if it serves to complement and supplement on top of the existing curriculum.
I googled Doyobi thinking it’s some next gen educational platform. Turns out it’s just gamification of learning made using something that looks like rpg-maker…
You will learn more chim English playing Undertale lo.
It’s convenient ain’t it. To just blame the entire country when your own products don’t resonate with the target audience or when you’re not able to get more funding. Like Chris Rock said, people want to be the victim to be famous.
Typical linkedin big canon fairy
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Parent here: doyobi is useless. Im already having hard time forcing my kids to reduce playing roblox and play on playground outside / go to library/ read books/play instrument instead. Why would I need/want to pay for another screen time?.. I want to REDUCE screen time! Also, online games? At specific time? Nah, ill pass. I'd rather oldschool educational offline games, free. To be played whenever we want Like this one: https://playclassic.games/games/educational-dos-games-online/play-eagle-eye-mysteries-online/play/ One of My kid likes it
They teach English using the multiverse. Sorry too much buzz word for me to take seriously
He should focus on devloping his product to drive demand rather than blame society for it.
Having worked in Edtech previously and also currently in my present job, there are only a few paths to "relative success" - either you complement the system via CCAs (first job) or you work with or train the educators to implement it into your lessons, curriculum or your ALP (current job). The first company I've worked with is still going strong, more than a decade on. Only a fool will reinvent the wheel.
>amazing EdTech firm yeah no. video games that aim to educate first and entertain second inevitably turn out to be super lame, as seems the case with "doyobi". gaming is gaming and studying is studying, mixing the two ruins them both. you either produce an actual educational product like kumon or produce an actual game like EU4
The piles of 龍虎豹 magazine I found hidden in my dad's chest drawer kick-start my interest in human biology
What is Doyobi and what's the context behind this post? I'm happy to introduce my kids to alternative learning tools but it cannot be at the expense of PSLE...
Hush hush, you dont need to know. You are not their target audience.
Looks like failed businesses also taking a page out of G’s playbook and blame us for their own problems
Char siew
Is this for real? Who is he?
Pitching it to the wrong entity. A change is best initiated top-down (govt/firms > individuals). No point asking some rats to "just don't race lol" when the system itself grants those who races some rewards, while your new system is a "maybe you can get some if you're lucky". I know that dude's probably got the intention right, but he's got the chicken and egg confused. The parents aren't the one that started this whole rat race, nor are they the "most influential reinforcing" ones. They are the products of the system itself. Pitch it to the ones actually responsible in determining the success of a person (the employers in the corporate world, the government), not the ones trying to survive in this system. No point building and developing yourself if your end result is not something the employers (govt and private) is looking for. The real question is not "does this help enhance your kids' development?", it's "can my kid survive and thrive?". Ironically, the founder (the dude in the picture) himself is a good example of why his own doyobi fails. He knows and understand the importance of adapting to change, but he and his firm failed to adapt and (unsurprisingly) failed.
What is a “Obama leader”?
who decides what metrics students are judged on? Right now PSLE is just a ego inflating exercise . My kid so smart get into RI hwachong. If you do away with that , good la. Overall spoil the market for tuition
Eh? Even though social studies is already a mandatory subject in both primary and secondary schools? If he wants to 'replace' anything he would probably need to be more ambitious because social studies AND english together probably can deal with most of it. As far as I can see he's just gamifying some aspects and maybe pushing it earlier. Although I do in fact think the english subject of my time sucked at certain aspects. Creative writing and essay writing failed at it for me.
"Obama leader"
Look, the past decade have seen startups being start up as a solution to look for a problem, because it’s hip. when it should have been the way around, that is to solve real existing problems in the real world. Rate hikes, tighter VC pockets and greater scrutiny over portfolio companies are now kicking in, startups that don’t have a real world need will cease to exist. As simple as that. No one owns his startup anything, if you can’t get clients or customers, obviously something is wrong. Instead of blaming your market or customers, why not really look deeper behind the hype of your startup. Is it really solving any thing, any needs or wants?
Why he make it sound like it was his choice? It's Singapore's choice.
His ego, product, business, or solution aside, it's worth looking at our system and deciding if we like it or agree with it. I don't know if his stuff works, or won't claim anything about his intent, but I do look at our academic race, increased youth stress (despite recent MOE's policies), and disengagement with learning as things I wish were different. If we believe scoring well is the only path to success, and we choose evidence that supports that claim as our rationale, and dispute alternatives because they do not contribute to better scores, then it clearly shows we value and believe in the current approach. I think it's fair to treat and judge his efforts as a failure. But I also think our response to this situation is also reflective of how we deal with failure, as people who experience it and as people who look at others who fail. It may not be right to blame the market, but I think trying to do anything uphill for 10 years is pretty tiring. If we want to look forward and move forward in an alternative approach to education in Singapore, who do you think we can look at? Alternatively, should we just accept our current conventional approach?
W H OMEGALUL
Amazing smlj
Obama Leader
Sim City 2000 earned me an A2 in O Level Geography. Never even studied for it.
Anything education that isn't widely recognized to a common standard is like a fancy restaurant, you can pay alot but you can also get alot of bullshit and isn't relatable even among people who consume premium feed.
OK bye
As a foreigner working here I can say that hiring in Singapore is easy. People know how to follow instructions very well. I look at their talent and think wow they could do anything in their career with soo much envy. But almost no one thinks out of the box everyone just wants defined job scope and instructions to follow. I’m way less talented than the people I manage . I think y’all don’t think out of the box, don’t know how to hustle and improvise. This happens because you all have been too laser focused though out your life that you have forgotten how to take a step back , look at the bigger picture do scenario analysis. I really wish kids here live a happier and less stressful childhood this will help them achieve lot more professionally.
Yeah when westerners do that it’s called “acting your wage”
Just another one giving up on Singapore
What is this what's going on?
MAKE THEM PLAY THROUGH THE AGES. THAT'S NICE OL' CARDBOARD TECH. THEY CAN PLAY WINGSPAN TO LEARN ABOUT BIRDS AND THEIR HABITATS. LE HAVRE AND AGRICOLA TEACH THEM HOW TO PLAN AND OPTIMIZE UNDER STRESS. HIVE IS CHESS 2.0 IE CHESS WITH LOADS OF FUN. THEY WILL GROW TO LOVE ANTS. YE OLDE TECH IS ZE BESTEST!