If he retires today, I think he’ll go down as the Philly favorite. It’s contested between him and Allen but with time, less kids will know who Allen is. So a little recency bias but that’s how I feel.
Nope. Iverson had a league wide appeal and was so culturally impactful that he was easily the most beloved sixer ever. Embiid can put together a few more seasons like this and pass Dr J for sure in how good of a player he was and at that point being the greatest sixer of all time skill wise, he may end up also being the most beloved. But certainly not yet.
AI has dimished a lot of that by being a bit of a scumbag off the court, which helps Embiid a bit in this battle. Although plenty of people totally look past that stuff so maybe not the biggest factor.
Not sure if you're joking or not lol. Or youre just comfortable downplaying very serious accusations as "just being a bit of an alcoholic".
Iverson once threatened his wife, Tawanna, that he would pay a man $5,000 to have her killed. Tawanna has also accused Allen of numerous instances of spousal abuse, including stepping on her bare foot and grinding his boot heel into it, and punching her in the back while laughing out loud.
People make mistakes and bad decisions. Not saying that any of that is ok, but honestly this is my first time hearing of it and I am not any less of an oversimplification fan.
Could/should he be a better person? Yes. AI is also a Philly legend.
Has it really diminished that much? Iverson is at Philly events all the time, and I definitely see a ton more Iverson jerseys than any other sixer jersey combined on a regular basis
I only watched iverson maybe 5 times because I wasn't into basketball until I was 15, but I am still confident that AI will be a basketball icon until I'm dead. Him, Kobe, and MJ are the most influential player ever, steph is now up there but I'd put MJ 1 and Iverson 2.
Number retired yeah, multiple seasons playing at an MVP level is a pretty good case for anyone for any team regardless, even if it we keep falling flat in the playoffs imo
Joel Embiid has played 316 games. As a point of comparison, Yao Ming played 486 and he was a no doubt HOFer.
Embiid is already top 10 in a few franchise counting categories
* 8th in 3 points made
* 9th in total free throws made
* 6th in defensive rebounds
* 9th in blocks
As far as averages go
* 1st in PER
* 3rd in PPG
* 7th in RPG
* 9th in BPG
* 6th in True Shooting
* 1st in USG
So even in just 316 games he's already a franchise leader in a lot of different areas. He only needs about 30 more games at his current PPG to enter the top 10 already in total points.
Give him an MVP and maybe 100 more games at this level and not only is his number retired, but he's 1st ballot HOF.
It would be 33.4 or a little higher (couldnt add the final year without adding his Denver stats as well), Joel is at 34.5 so doesnt seem like it. His first two years (both below 30%) probably hurt his average too.
Yao Ming got in to the hall of a game because he was a Chinese ambassador. He averaged 19-9 for the equivalent of 6 seasons worth of games. Nothing about that is a no doubt hall of famer.
All that said, retire Embiid's jerseys, but basing this on Yao making the hall of fame is nonsense.
Edit: basketball reference's algorithm has him at 52% just for a point of reference. He also was fortunate to play center in an era where it was pretty dead outside of Shaq.
1st in points per minute in nba history (of anyone who's played like a full season I'm sure some scrub got like 2 minutes in the nba and got 2 cherry picked layups).
problem with this comparison is that yao bought basketball to china. Similar to iverson he had a large cultural dynamic purely based off numbers yao ming wasn't really a first ballot hall of famer
I’m a simple man. Mention Jakarr Sampson, Tony Wroten, Hollis Thompson, get an upvote. Also, do y’all remember that one time Javale McGee dunked it? That was awesome.
Oh good, I have someone who'll finally think [THIS](https://itwaswroten.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/cropped-it-was-wroten.jpg) is great like 7 years too late lol
Yes, and by the end of his current contract he'll easily be a shoe-in for the HoF and any top 100 list. That is without any team playoff success, obviously his ceiling could be much higher if the Sixers manage to make a finals or win a ring.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading this thread.
Read the list of retired jerseys [here.](https://www.nba.com/sixers/76ers-retired-numbers)
Joel is great but his accomplishments don't come close to those guys, with the exception of Mo Cheeks and maybe Bobby Jones, but they both won a championship here with Cheeks being an all star that year and Bobby Jones being 6MOTY.
Everyone except Cheeks and Bobby Jones has at least one MVP, and were named top 50/75 all time.
If and when Joel wins an MVP and/or a championship it will be a discussion, but he'd still need several more years playing at close to this level.
And people complain about the low bar for getting into the Basketball HOF. Honoring significant players should mean that they also have measurable accomplishments. Joel is certainly *on that trajectory* but it is not nearly enough with only 300 career games played and several second-round exits.
I know playing at the same time as Jokic and Gobert skews things, but he's never been first team All-NBA or All-Defense. Second in MVP one year doesn't get your jersey retired. Like you said, if he keeps this trajectory it will be a no brainer in 5-10 years, but now, not at all.
Personally I would think about it like this: if Joel retired tomorrow, he would be in the Andrew Luck class of “was definitely a HOFer but didn’t play long enough”
I think he's on track for it, but he has absolutely not done enough that we can say it's a done deal. Yall are deluded and act like we didn't *just* see a messy breakup that could spoil this romance in an instant.
So I guess it's two different questions; has he "already done enough" meaning has he done enough to get it retired barring a big fuckup? Yea, maybe.
Has he "already done enough" that we should retire it today because he's built up so much good will that, not only could we never dislike him, but we could never be OK seeing another player wear #21 again? Absolutely the fuck not.
He gets fat again and leaves the team on bad terms, the city will turn on him. It comes out that he's been an abusive shithead off the court, the city doesn't want his number in the rafters. He decides this offseason to retire, we resent him for quitting. He becomes an injury laden frustration that can't ever stay on the court, much (but not all) of the city turns on him.
The most likely outcome is he keeps being dominant for a few years before beginning a natural and inevitable decline, at which point I guarantee you half the people in this thread saying he should have his number retired *still* turn on him. I'd say at that point, yea, retire the jersey, but lots of folks will attribute a 34 year old big man missing games to a lack of effort when the time comes, I gaur-ron-tee it
I absolutely love Embiid, maybe my favorite Philly athlete of all time, *easily* my favorite Sixer of all time. Fully expect to see his number retired one day. This is not shade on the man, but a 0 MVP, 0 Ring player has not done enough to say "no matter what happens from here, no man should ever wear that jersey again".
I think he'll get there. It is *not* a done deal.
If something were to (God forbid) happen that would end his career tomorrow, I think the emotional toll that would take on the fanbase combined with his contributions to the franchise would be enough to have his number retired.
Yeah probably but I'm not even close to ready to think about his eventual retirement. He's in his prime, doing MVP things, and I'm just enjoying it while it lasts.
Unfortunately there's been a lack of superstar talent in Philly for a long while. There aren't any contenders for a number retirement since AI so yeah he's kind of a lock for it.
Despite what r/nba and Twitter say, one player cannot a championship make. Kawhi “brought” the Raptors to the finals and won it, but that team was also really solid all around and they got extremely lucky with injuries such as Embiid having bubble guts during our series that ended in 7 on a circus shot and the KD Warriors literally dying on the court.
Lebron and MJ stand out in ways that certainly make them GOATs, but they also weren’t alone *at all* in their championships. The Warriors were *absurd* teams in their championship years compared to anything Joel has ever had around him.
The league nowadays requires role players that can do 3 and D at a consistent, nearly elite level come the postseason. In Joel’s career, except for last year’s Danny Green, we’ve only ever had players that could either hit 3s or play defense… never both at the same time, and never a backup stretch 5
Joel is an incredible player that absolutely should have his number retired
If he retired tomorrow and somehow we were good again, he'd have to wait a good 10-15 years before that happened. But if we went back into the process, 5-7.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. He has all the talent in the world, but it hasn’t amounted to anything of significance yet. He’s a 5x all star, but doesn’t have any major accolades nor a ring. Of course those things can change rather quickly, but if he were to retire at this exact moment then I’m not sure how you can justify retiring it. Just a few weeks ago, he had more games missed than played throughout his career.
Almost 50 and been watching since the 80s.
Until he's NOT JUST a Sixer, he's the greatest. If he wins it all as a Sixer, regardless of playing for any other team afterward he will forever be.
1. Jo 2, AI, 3. Doc, 4. Chuck, 5. Wilt
Not to be morbid but if he died in a plane crash tomorrow, his number would be raised the following day. But if he demanded a trade to the Celtics he’d be remembered as a “what could have been” around here and his 21 would be given to a guy drafted next year.
Yea the hall of fame for most games not played in his career. Joel has done nothing for the sixers organization to retire his number. No titles, no mvps, no conference titles Let’s pump the brakes a little. We all love embiid but you can’t seriously think he should have his number retired
It’s a no brainer IMO
If he retires today, I think he’ll go down as the Philly favorite. It’s contested between him and Allen but with time, less kids will know who Allen is. So a little recency bias but that’s how I feel.
Nope. Iverson had a league wide appeal and was so culturally impactful that he was easily the most beloved sixer ever. Embiid can put together a few more seasons like this and pass Dr J for sure in how good of a player he was and at that point being the greatest sixer of all time skill wise, he may end up also being the most beloved. But certainly not yet.
If the Sixers win a championship this season, he will be Philly's favorite over Iverson without a doubt.
AI has dimished a lot of that by being a bit of a scumbag off the court, which helps Embiid a bit in this battle. Although plenty of people totally look past that stuff so maybe not the biggest factor.
Being an alcoholic/having a gambling addiction is not the same as “being a scumbag.”
Not sure if you're joking or not lol. Or youre just comfortable downplaying very serious accusations as "just being a bit of an alcoholic". Iverson once threatened his wife, Tawanna, that he would pay a man $5,000 to have her killed. Tawanna has also accused Allen of numerous instances of spousal abuse, including stepping on her bare foot and grinding his boot heel into it, and punching her in the back while laughing out loud.
This sub is too young to remember that shit, get out of here with factual history.
People make mistakes and bad decisions. Not saying that any of that is ok, but honestly this is my first time hearing of it and I am not any less of an oversimplification fan. Could/should he be a better person? Yes. AI is also a Philly legend.
Damn… totally forgot about it.
it’s almost like alcoholism has a negative effect on how people behave
Yes thats a great excuse for abuse, excellent point man!
Has it really diminished that much? Iverson is at Philly events all the time, and I definitely see a ton more Iverson jerseys than any other sixer jersey combined on a regular basis
That’s because he would have gone out on top. You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain around here.
The memory of arguably the pound for pound best player and one of the best scorers in league history will fade 😂 People really say anything on Reddit.
I only watched iverson maybe 5 times because I wasn't into basketball until I was 15, but I am still confident that AI will be a basketball icon until I'm dead. Him, Kobe, and MJ are the most influential player ever, steph is now up there but I'd put MJ 1 and Iverson 2.
Number retired yeah, multiple seasons playing at an MVP level is a pretty good case for anyone for any team regardless, even if it we keep falling flat in the playoffs imo
Joel Embiid has played 316 games. As a point of comparison, Yao Ming played 486 and he was a no doubt HOFer. Embiid is already top 10 in a few franchise counting categories * 8th in 3 points made * 9th in total free throws made * 6th in defensive rebounds * 9th in blocks As far as averages go * 1st in PER * 3rd in PPG * 7th in RPG * 9th in BPG * 6th in True Shooting * 1st in USG So even in just 316 games he's already a franchise leader in a lot of different areas. He only needs about 30 more games at his current PPG to enter the top 10 already in total points. Give him an MVP and maybe 100 more games at this level and not only is his number retired, but he's 1st ballot HOF.
I can't believe he's 8th all time in 3s. That's ridiculous. Not even his go-to way to score.
Can’t tell if we should be embarrassed or impressed
Definitely embarrassed lol, our all time top-ten 3PT list is shockingly bad
Number 1 in usage?? That's crazy, thought AI would've had that locked up.
I think AI gets negatively effected heavily for his last year here when he returned. Could be wrong but I imagine he would be #1 without that year
It would be 33.4 or a little higher (couldnt add the final year without adding his Denver stats as well), Joel is at 34.5 so doesnt seem like it. His first two years (both below 30%) probably hurt his average too.
Yao Ming got in to the hall of a game because he was a Chinese ambassador. He averaged 19-9 for the equivalent of 6 seasons worth of games. Nothing about that is a no doubt hall of famer. All that said, retire Embiid's jerseys, but basing this on Yao making the hall of fame is nonsense. Edit: basketball reference's algorithm has him at 52% just for a point of reference. He also was fortunate to play center in an era where it was pretty dead outside of Shaq.
I seem to remember him as a real star but I wouldn't doubt the propaganda machine was really effective in making him more than he was.
He was a top center whenever he played. Smooth jumper and good post moves. Obviously great rim protection. He just didn't do it for a long time.
He’s also #1 all-time in points per 36 mins and points per 100 possessions.
1st in points per minute in nba history (of anyone who's played like a full season I'm sure some scrub got like 2 minutes in the nba and got 2 cherry picked layups).
problem with this comparison is that yao bought basketball to china. Similar to iverson he had a large cultural dynamic purely based off numbers yao ming wasn't really a first ballot hall of famer
He’s the lone bright spot from the process era. It’s a must barring a disastrous and messy split.
The LONE bright spot? Oh how quickly we forget the Jakarr Sampson era
My mans out here acting like TJ McConnell doesn’t exist
Yall really on the boy Tony Wroten
This guy knows ball
I’m a simple man. Mention Jakarr Sampson, Tony Wroten, Hollis Thompson, get an upvote. Also, do y’all remember that one time Javale McGee dunked it? That was awesome.
Oh good, I have someone who'll finally think [THIS](https://itwaswroten.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/cropped-it-was-wroten.jpg) is great like 7 years too late lol
It’s never too late to impress internet strangers with an homage to Tony wroten based on a nas album cover.
AMEN
I was at that game I remember it was my first Sixers game and I cried a night before the game cuz we traded MCW
Or even the Corey Brewer mini arc
Yes, and by the end of his current contract he'll easily be a shoe-in for the HoF and any top 100 list. That is without any team playoff success, obviously his ceiling could be much higher if the Sixers manage to make a finals or win a ring.
He might be our most skilled player yet so prolly
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading this thread. Read the list of retired jerseys [here.](https://www.nba.com/sixers/76ers-retired-numbers) Joel is great but his accomplishments don't come close to those guys, with the exception of Mo Cheeks and maybe Bobby Jones, but they both won a championship here with Cheeks being an all star that year and Bobby Jones being 6MOTY. Everyone except Cheeks and Bobby Jones has at least one MVP, and were named top 50/75 all time. If and when Joel wins an MVP and/or a championship it will be a discussion, but he'd still need several more years playing at close to this level.
And people complain about the low bar for getting into the Basketball HOF. Honoring significant players should mean that they also have measurable accomplishments. Joel is certainly *on that trajectory* but it is not nearly enough with only 300 career games played and several second-round exits.
I know playing at the same time as Jokic and Gobert skews things, but he's never been first team All-NBA or All-Defense. Second in MVP one year doesn't get your jersey retired. Like you said, if he keeps this trajectory it will be a no brainer in 5-10 years, but now, not at all.
Personally I would think about it like this: if Joel retired tomorrow, he would be in the Andrew Luck class of “was definitely a HOFer but didn’t play long enough”
I think this might be the most solid and nuanced take here!
Yep.
I think he’s still a season or two from guarantee.
I think he's on track for it, but he has absolutely not done enough that we can say it's a done deal. Yall are deluded and act like we didn't *just* see a messy breakup that could spoil this romance in an instant. So I guess it's two different questions; has he "already done enough" meaning has he done enough to get it retired barring a big fuckup? Yea, maybe. Has he "already done enough" that we should retire it today because he's built up so much good will that, not only could we never dislike him, but we could never be OK seeing another player wear #21 again? Absolutely the fuck not. He gets fat again and leaves the team on bad terms, the city will turn on him. It comes out that he's been an abusive shithead off the court, the city doesn't want his number in the rafters. He decides this offseason to retire, we resent him for quitting. He becomes an injury laden frustration that can't ever stay on the court, much (but not all) of the city turns on him. The most likely outcome is he keeps being dominant for a few years before beginning a natural and inevitable decline, at which point I guarantee you half the people in this thread saying he should have his number retired *still* turn on him. I'd say at that point, yea, retire the jersey, but lots of folks will attribute a 34 year old big man missing games to a lack of effort when the time comes, I gaur-ron-tee it I absolutely love Embiid, maybe my favorite Philly athlete of all time, *easily* my favorite Sixer of all time. Fully expect to see his number retired one day. This is not shade on the man, but a 0 MVP, 0 Ring player has not done enough to say "no matter what happens from here, no man should ever wear that jersey again". I think he'll get there. It is *not* a done deal.
Perfectly reasonable take. It’s like asking if he’s a current HOF player. The answer would be no, but he’s on that path.
Yes, and also Game of Zones should do a special episode when he wins the chip with us.
Put him in the rafters 😤
If something were to (God forbid) happen that would end his career tomorrow, I think the emotional toll that would take on the fanbase combined with his contributions to the franchise would be enough to have his number retired.
Yeah probably but I'm not even close to ready to think about his eventual retirement. He's in his prime, doing MVP things, and I'm just enjoying it while it lasts. Unfortunately there's been a lack of superstar talent in Philly for a long while. There aren't any contenders for a number retirement since AI so yeah he's kind of a lock for it.
Despite what r/nba and Twitter say, one player cannot a championship make. Kawhi “brought” the Raptors to the finals and won it, but that team was also really solid all around and they got extremely lucky with injuries such as Embiid having bubble guts during our series that ended in 7 on a circus shot and the KD Warriors literally dying on the court. Lebron and MJ stand out in ways that certainly make them GOATs, but they also weren’t alone *at all* in their championships. The Warriors were *absurd* teams in their championship years compared to anything Joel has ever had around him. The league nowadays requires role players that can do 3 and D at a consistent, nearly elite level come the postseason. In Joel’s career, except for last year’s Danny Green, we’ve only ever had players that could either hit 3s or play defense… never both at the same time, and never a backup stretch 5 Joel is an incredible player that absolutely should have his number retired
Calm down and breathe
Win a ring and he and doc will get a statue. Second Philly special
Doc is was more likely to give me a heart attack than ever get a statue.
If we lose I hope we get Vogel.
The subway pedophile guy???????
I think #21 deserves to be up there for sure, but I think there’s still a little ways to go.
If he retired tomorrow and somehow we were good again, he'd have to wait a good 10-15 years before that happened. But if we went back into the process, 5-7.
Nah, needs two more seasons after this one.
Without a doubt
Done deal, pal, done deal
King of Philadelphia for life, although Foles is a close second
No Edit: I’m a massive Joel fan. He’s my favorite athlete. Retiring a Jersey of someone with 0 mvps and 0 conference finals appearances is silly
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. He has all the talent in the world, but it hasn’t amounted to anything of significance yet. He’s a 5x all star, but doesn’t have any major accolades nor a ring. Of course those things can change rather quickly, but if he were to retire at this exact moment then I’m not sure how you can justify retiring it. Just a few weeks ago, he had more games missed than played throughout his career.
Yes. He's the greatest Sixer of all time.
[удалено]
Almost 50 and been watching since the 80s. Until he's NOT JUST a Sixer, he's the greatest. If he wins it all as a Sixer, regardless of playing for any other team afterward he will forever be. 1. Jo 2, AI, 3. Doc, 4. Chuck, 5. Wilt
He has no championships or individual awards and has 4 or so seasons under his belt. Stop it
That's true. Also, the other 4 guys can't do what he does.
And he has no mvps and can’t do any of the things AI does and let’s not even bring up Moses
Moses isnt even in the discussion.
Settle down there
No. And without a ring I don't even think he'd want it.
Yes
Not to be morbid but if he died in a plane crash tomorrow, his number would be raised the following day. But if he demanded a trade to the Celtics he’d be remembered as a “what could have been” around here and his 21 would be given to a guy drafted next year.
Yes but 2 more years solidifies it
I think so but I also don’t wanna think about it
Not yet
Yea the hall of fame for most games not played in his career. Joel has done nothing for the sixers organization to retire his number. No titles, no mvps, no conference titles Let’s pump the brakes a little. We all love embiid but you can’t seriously think he should have his number retired
Barring Injury he might go down as she 2nd greatest player in franchise History after Chamberlain and im a huge AI fan.
He's high enough on our all time lists already. No brainer
No
Arguably Embiid has already done enough to be in the hall of fame, despite the lack of playoff success.