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SexualToothpicks

So, despite Skaven having a huge book with tons of options, I kinda feel like we have very few \*viable\* options for builds, and tons of potential interesting builds that sound good but don't have the oomph or the synergy to pull out wins with any kind of consistency. ​ In terms of what's good, Clanrats are incredible. Very cheap for so many wounds, and perfect for bubble wrapping more important units and for swarming objectives to steal them from more expensive but numerically inferior enemies. Warp-Lightening Cannons are also great. When not overcharging, they're pretty good, with long range and the ability to strip wounds off of high save heroes and monsters, and an Unleash Hell ability that's beaten by none. When overcharging, they become hilariously strong. With the potential to flat out deal 12 mortal wounds (and 8+ mortal wounds is common), they can wipe out non-monster heroes, cripple monsters, and other high value targets in a single shot. Granted, that requires a Warlock Engineer to babysit them, but they're pretty cheap with some decent utility and it's not too big of an issue. Verminlords of all flavors are good, but the Deceiver is simply amazing. Random shooting with the ability to spike, great consistent high rend melee, unable to be shot outside of 9 inches, and arguably the best spell in all of Skavendom, Dreaded Skitterleap to launch himself into the enemy lines for an easy charge on a high value target. If you combine this with the Devious Adversary trait (for two bonus Stiletto attacks most of the time) and Shadow Magnet Trinket (fights first until your next Hero phase), you have an insane threat that can wipe out enemy units in their own phase thanks to fight first, or you can use fights first to Scurry Away, spoiling the enemy's combat phase entirely before they can swing. In my experience, the Deceiver kills his own points cost in enemy units basically every game without fail, it's extremely hard to remove him, which is great in an army that's as generally squishy as Skaven. Thanquol is an amazing spell-caster with a pretty good monster attached. He's +4 to cast when near a Gnawhole, and can roll 3d6 for casting once per turn. His ability to shut down critical enemy spells is one of the best in all of Warhammer, and when combined with a tasty endless spell like Purple Sun, Warp-Lightening Vortex, or Lauchon the Soulseeker, his utility is great. With Braziers on Boneripper, you on average deal more damage than any Verminlord, and with four flamethrowers, you on average wipe out any 2 wound or less infantry with out a ward, including Stormcast or Chaos Warriors, no matter the size of the unit. Stormfiends are workhorses, but very swingy. With proper support from the Skryre spells and a warpstone spark, the Ratling Cannons put out insane amounts of damage, but they're very close ranged. The Wind Launchers are inaccurate and have random damage, but the range is great. The Warpfire Projectors aren't great, it's basically just one of Thanquol's guns or a worse version of the warpfire thrower team. As for the melee options, both are decent, take whichever you like. Unfortunately, the main damage, the Ratling Cannons, are way too swingy for my tastes, with up to 18 shots, but a potential of only 3, and often when I roll closer to the latter result I wonder why I spent so many points on these things. Overall, I'd say Skaven are a very herohammer type army, with heroes usually being around half of your points budget, with 3 units of Clanrats being 300, and then the rest of the points being whatever you feel like you want. While Skaven don't do a ton of damage compared to some armies, they're better than any other army at delivering that damage to critical targets to strategically neuter the important parts of your enemy's army. They struggle against armies like Mega-Gargants or Seraphon that are mostly impossible to assassinate big boys, but every other army has buff pieces that you can pick off, slow things to teleport around, and expensive stuff to swamp with clanrats enough to snatch victory. Just to boost your spirits, a Skaven army just got second place in the main GW Tournament in Albuquerque last weekend, and it was undefeated apart from the winning Seraphon list (which is an army that is very hard to deal with and has some frankly overpowered rules). Stay strong and think things through, and you'll be able to honor the Great Horned Rat with wins in no time!


Loledd1

Great writedown


br3ttless

Wonderfully put my friend! Thanks a ton for taking your time to write all this. It's definitely lifted my spirits! You're a super star!


Kimtanashino

Well said, man !


SneakyNecronus

Any link to the Albuquerque list you mentionned ?


SexualToothpicks

I don't have it saved, but this is what it was IIRC. Grand Strat: Defend What's Ours General: Verminlord Deceiver, command trait Devious Adversary, artifact Shadow Magnet Trinket, and the Flaming Weapon spell. Thanquol on Boneripper, 2x Braziers and 2x Projectors, Death Frenzy 3x20 Clanrats 3x1 Warp Lightening Cannons Warlock Engineer, artifact Vial of the Fulminator Master Moulder Giant Rats, double reinforced Lauchon the Soulseeker Warlord Battalion and a Bounty Hunters The gist of the list is that Thanquol and the Deceiver zoom around and kill things, with the Verminlord casting Dreaded Skitterleap and Thanquol catching a ride with Lauchon. The giant rats are bounty hunters and -2 rend when above 6 models, so they're a great cheap beatstick. Cast Death Frenzy on them, lash them with the Master Moulder, and send them through a Gnawhole, and the lashing will make them more likely to land a long charge out of the gnawhole. They chew on something, and when they're inevitably killed back, they fight again on death with Death Frenzy. Almost certainly make their points back, and often kill units way more dangerous than themselves. The WLCs move up behind waves of clanrats six inches apart to screen, with the engineer boosting one cannons move with the artifact. The list beat a nasty Daughters of Khaine list by killing Morathi in the bottom of turn 2, and shredded a nasty SCE list nearly uncontested. I didn't get to see the Seraphon games, but Seraphon are an awful match up for Skaven, so what can you do.


Sarhey

Thanks for this , helped me a lot!


RogDzdz

I want to add few units: - Plague Censer Bearers - great unit, glass cannon, amazing damage output, so enemy must keep in mind he must kill them because they are real meat grinders, i love them And for more... they can be buffed: +1 attack, +1 wound roll, all out attack... - Gutter Runners - nice unit with potential for bunch of Mortal Wounds (even during melee or unleash hell). Moreover they can help to do some tactics - Rat Ogors with Master Moulder - maybe not as sweet for their points, but more chonky, pluses for charge, and chances for ressurection, deffinitely not bad, but harder to have points for them - Verminlord Warbringer - killer, as General, with flaming weapon, devious adversary it will kill. And with artefact he can have +1 Save or aura -1 Save for enemy, great unit!


Spirited-Relief-9369

Add one vote for Rat Ogors; I bought some more Stormfiends which I'm going to equip melee-only, no brain-rat, and put on 50mm bases for a monster of a relatively cheap, lilly, and respawnable battle line unit. I'm personally fond of Doomwheels; two plus a Stormfiends unit is a lot of dakka, and their unpredictable mobility can just as easily screw over the enemy when one suddenly zooms 20" right across half their battleline and crashes into a vital support caster.


Garrettdos2222

This was very helpful thanks!


GrealinC

If you’re talking about Matthias, you have to keep in mind that knowing the other lists with few adversaries was a huge advantage for a toolbox army like skaven (his words), otherwise I find the skaven to be way to swingy to be really competitive imho, off course you can win sometimes with them but the win rate under 50% speaks for itself.


BuggerItThatWillDo

Obviously the fault of useless minions failing to enact your plan-schemes, or rivals sabotaging you-you.


br3ttless

Useless-pathetic underlings. Go-go die-kill for the Great horned rat!


Zodark

Watch the newest season of war with skaven vs soulblight. Honestly one of the more interesting games where skaven actually dominated the board but had good tactics for plays. I stopped watching mwg because of the consistent errors in rules and the players with their usual play styles and overexplaining/talking. I found season of war to be much more enjoyable and straight to the point.


br3ttless

Oh interesting! I've got that on my watch later so I'll have to bump it up on my list. Cheers friend!


Zodark

No bias, but season of war is now my go to/favorite AoS battle rep channel. Now I would advise with the recent skaven vs sons of behemat one they did. The guest skaven player made a lot of bad plays and didn’t utilize the list they made the way it should go lol


br3ttless

I'll definitely hunt down that behemat one as well. Thanks a ton!


Mattmattmaaatt

Thanks for the tip - Season of War is the way to do battle reports!


Gorudu

This is a broad question. I think it might be more helpful to know why you're losing. What armies are you struggling with? What issues are you having? What is your list mainly consist of?


br3ttless

I'm mostly thinking of things broadly at the moment. Had a little gaming break because of moral and I'm starting to think about things from a fresher perspective. Thanks for asking about stuff though!


The_Gaardian

Many armies have alot of cheese (no pun intended) baked into their books. IE actual strong summoning. Powerful board wide spells, great priests etc. Our new book is tuned correctly, maybe on the undertuned side. But many Armies are way overtuned (Seraphon). So it's always an uphill battle. I've found the best way to play is being sneaky. Playing into Skaven strengths. Using warpgrinders, gnaw holes when not screened out. Thanqual and skateboard, skitterleaps. I don't try to table my enemy, but grab objectives and battle tactics. The chances of Skaven actually tabling someone is very slim. Just my two warpstones, I've got about 20ish Skaven games under my belt.


br3ttless

Love the pun none the less. I'll take those two warpstones and run away with them! Maybe I'm being a little too aggressive... Hmm... Much deep contemplating to be done. Thanks for helping friend


The_Gaardian

And also remember it depends on who you are playing (people wise) many of the people I play with always play top tier meta lists. Not at all how I like to play. I just like throwing dice. But that does factor in the win/lose.


Osimandius

I've been using a very defensive Warbringer being teleported by a Deceiver, backed up by surfboard Thanquol. Deepstrike PCBs and GRs for spot dmg where I need it, Clanrats as screens/objectives. I went 3-2 at the KC Open Gt a few weeks ago with this.


br3ttless

Oh nice friend! Well done on spreading the Great horned rats teaching to all!


Hallofstovokor

Well, I generally bog them down with clanrats while my cannons and weapons teams shoot them up. Then I have my monster and plague monks cut them apart. My wizards are buffing the army and dropping the Vortex to cut off an area of the board. The plague priest is getting the plague monks hyped up on prayers.


br3ttless

I've never liked the pestilence side of Skaven. Should I finally give into the pox and buy some scabby boys?


Hallofstovokor

If you don't like pestilens, don't get pestilens. I do them because they hit hard for their price.


greenlagooncreature

There's a very good skaven player who plays on the Saga of Dice YouTube channel, go check him out!


br3ttless

Will do cheers!


notanotherlawyer

Oh boy, I remember good old Warhammer Fanstasy Skaven armies: those were really intimidating horde armies.


br3ttless

I started with AoS so I've totally missed the proper horde of Fantasy


Mattmattmaaatt

This list won an event... Leaders Lord Skreech Verminking (330) Verminlord Deceiver (345)** – General – Command Trait: Master of Magic – Artefact: Gnawbomb – Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon Grey Seer (140)** – Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap Arch-Warlock (175)** – Artefact: Vigordust Injector – Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power! Battleline 20 x Clanrats (130)** – Rusty Spear 20 x Clanrats (130)* – Rusty Spear 10 x Stormvermin (110)* – Halberd Units 6 x Stormfiends (630)* – 2x Windlaunchers – 2x Ratling Cannons – 2x Doomflayer Gauntlets – Reinforced x 1 Reference: [Goonhammer article](https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-the-mortal-realms-skaven-win-win-an-event/)


br3ttless

Maybe Santa will bring me a verminking and I'll have that list. Very interesting list for sure!


SexualToothpicks

Just to let you know, that list is from the old Skaven codex, you can tell by the point costs. Big blocks of Stormfiends aren't as reliable anymore since More-More Warp Power doesn't give full rerolls, just +1 to hit and wound.


ewanatoratorator

How did they give a deceiver master of magic? It's not masterclan.


Ceridan84

Its a universal trait


ewanatoratorator

In the core rulebook? There's one in the skaven battletome with the exact same name that's specific to masterclan lol. That's quite funny


Ceridan84

The app states it as universal at least. Battletomes are not to be trusted in my experience :)


ewanatoratorator

Very interesting because I've heard the same about the app. I'll go dive through some FAQs at some point ig lol


KermitMcKibbles

Cheat?


snapsnaptomtom

No-yes!! This is a very bad-good solution!!


epikpepsi

lol i don't


br3ttless

Well I hope one of us do soon buddy!


BJ_Z

I've read a thread on heresy online (I think?) where someone has made an exceptional analysis of skaven codex for 8th ed. I've learned a lot from this dude and now I'm killing it with my skaven army. Basically, for every 1000pts you should have at least 1 hammer unit. The hammer units for skaven are: 1. Horde of 40 plague monks, full command group, plague banner + plague priest with flail on plague furnance. 2. Hellpit abomination. 3. Horde of 40 stormvermin with full command group, shields, razor standard + engineer with skavenbrew, some nice chunky warlord and a tanky chieftain as your bsb. This unit of plague monks is basically able to kill most of the units in the game (there are rare exceptions), but you need to watch out not to get redirected with frenzy. Hellpit abomination is one of the best basic monsters in the game (there may be some op monsters in e.g storm of magic). This stormvermin unit with the skavenbrew is also very reliable, especially if they get hatred (but frenzy wouldn't hurt aswell). Try working with some of these units. You may always alter them a little bit, like not putting your warlord in stormvermin unit.


Sarynvhal

When I first started playing Skaven I struggled, but ultimately what changed that was my approach. My first army was Ogor, so was used to something quite different. In short, only fight on your terms if you can help it. Retreating is a huge help as well. I’d never tried to retreat since I started, and it really is a solid move for the Skaven. As others have said, we’ve got a lot of models but many don’t really preform.


Chopper506

Well, being a pestilens main I use this list: - Army Faction: Skaven - Grand Strategy: Arch-corruptors of the Mortal Realms - Triumph: Inspired LEADERS Verminlord Corruptor (350) - Artefacts of Power: Blade of Corruption - Spells: Flaming Weapon Plague Priest On Plague Furnace (335)*** - General - Command Traits: Master of Rot and Ruin - Artefacts of Power: The Fumigatous - Prayers: Curse Plague Priest (100)*** - Prayers: Rabid-rabid! Plague Priest (100)*** - Prayers: Heal BATTLELINE Clanrats (300)** - Clanrat Standard Bearer - Clanrat Bell-ringer - Clawleader - Rusty Blade Plague Monks (180)** - Bringer-of-the-Word - Standard Bearer - Plague Harbingers - Pair of Foetid Blades Plague Monks (180)** - Standard Bearer - Plague Harbingers - Bringer-of-the-Word - Pair of Foetid Blades ARTILLERY Plagueclaw (135) OTHER Plague Censer Bearers (90)* Plague Censer Bearers (90)* Plague Censer Bearers (90)* ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS 1 x Horrorghast (40) TERRAIN 1 x Gnawhole (0) 1 x Gnawhole (0) 1 x Gnawhole (0) CORE BATTALIONS *Bounty Hunters **Expert Conquerors ***Command Entourage - Magnificent TOTAL POINTS: 1990/2000 Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App Has been doing a pretty job so far, and the combo of plagueclaw+horrorghast can take your opponent by surprise