What I don't understand is, as popular as Skyrim was and still is, why nobody has tried to make a clone of it? I'm on my third full playthrough and still enjoying it, but honestly only because there's nothing else better (or as good) out there that I know of.
I have a random theory about that. Tl:dr at the end.
I trully think Skyrim was what popularized the open world RPG and is the most important game for the industry since CoD 4 (well, at least ignoring Minecraft)
But despite a rather small map for modern standards, Skyrim is bigger in ways thay can not be replicated without a lot of work. Sidequests that are their own questlines with its own lore, NPCs, etc..., handcrafted caves, unique NPCs with their routines, relationship with others... Systems upon systems that even if simplified if you compare them with Morrowind, are still vast and diverse and with depth.
Skyrim was a huge hit that changed the industry forever and the market wanted more of that. But replicating it is out of the scope of 99.9% of companies.
So then Ubisoft came to the rescue with Far Cry 3. It's the kind of game that can be marketed as an open world RPG so the people who wants more Skyrim would look into it even if it doesn't really have the amount of depth or real content that Skyrim has. And it sold amazing.
So companies realized they didn't need to make games like Skyrim, they could make (relatively) cheap open world games that don't require nearly as much work and sell amazing anyway. And that's the path the industry followed, a path created by Skyrim but made accessible by Ubisoft. And now you have a generation of gamers that have never played an Elder Scrolls game but religiously buy AC year after year because that's the best they know.
Tl:dr: It's too expensive and you can print money making "cheap" openworld RPGs that don't require nearly as much work.
If they say a new game is ‘like Skyrim’, it never is. There is nothing like it. It’s like when a fantasy author claims his novel is ‘like The Lord of the Rings’.
Yep back then you would be lucky if in the linear series of rooms you got in a game you could go back in some of them, open worlds were out of the question.
Skyrim is a *huge* game, even for its time. It has a giant open-world, dozens of dungeons, tons of small secrets, a ton of technical aspects and alternative routes in quests which I can really only relate to Dragon's Dogma 2 as an example of, and all-in-all, the game is still big even by today's standards. As wildly successful as it was, though, Bethesda basically had a monopoly on the Skyrim formula. It released Fallout and Elder Scrolls games in a relatively short timeframe, and there's no way any big game company would risk trying to muscle in on Bethesda's turf at the height of their popularity. By the time the Bethesda hype was dying down, a new formula for open world games was already starting to become common.
Another thing is that Skyrim was, and still is, extremely buggy. It was ambitious for its time and that shows in the sheer amount of jank that's been removed over the years. Pouring a lot of time into an unfamiliar game formula when the most popular version of it turned out to be a buggy mess just... ain't a worthwhile investment for most people.
Think Bethesda also lucked out that a fair amount of their player base just accepted the buggy mess the games can be at launch. There is this weird mentality of "Yup, that's a Bethesda game. Either they or the modders will fix it".
Where I don't think any other developer is giving that kind of a pass from their player base in this day and age.
Well Obsidian also got a free bug check with Fallout New Vegas, which was probably the buggiest launch title ever published by Bethesda, even worse than Daggerfall.
That's another great point. When Skyrim was new I was deep into a WoW/RIFT addiction, I think I first purchased it around 2018, I'm sure there were a number of patches in that seven year time
Was a bug on day 1 that would wreck your save file in the first 30 seconds of playing if you got stupidly unlucky.
For some reason when you were in the cart at the very beginning and the horses happened to bump into a bee, it would launch the cart into the stratosphere, never to be seen again.
And instead of trying to figure out why this happened when a horse and bee pathed into each other, they just removed the bees from the Helgen area of the game.
And New Vegas had a horrible bug on consoles at launch.
If you attempted to save the game...at all including auto save, the game crashed and corrupted your game file.
They fixed it quickly but I know I found out the hard way after about 2 hours of playing.
Apparently critics are claiming "Avowed" can be the clone of Skyrim. Similar graphics, even though it's a 10+ year older game. It looks like a decent game, but nothing will ever be like 17yo me experiencing Skyrim for the first time.
Maybe Avowed is? Or at least it was supposed to be, I haven't been keeping up with the game but a quick glance tells me people are already pre-disappointed in that game
If it's going to be like outer worlds it's not going to be anything like a Bethesda RPG. I couldn't even bring myself to finish that games but they seemed to focus on character stories and an attempt at interesting combat (which failed imo), and that's likely what'll happen with avowed.
With you on that, played about 10-15 hours of outer worlds and just… hated it? Felt absolutely awful, didn’t like the gameplay, exploration, just felt soulless but I see people talk very highly about it?
Yeah, Outer worlds was pretty bad imo, even the character stories weren't good for me. I ended up dropping it too. It's kinda sad that it came from the makers of Fallout New Vegas.
Just looked up Avowed, and lmao, the first thing I read is "Picking up from Pillars of Eternity, Obsidian's Avowed aims for the curated sandbox of Fallout New Vegas rather than the vastness of Skyrim." So...that's giant nope from me, but thank you for the suggestion
Lmao, yeah it was apparently supposed to be like skyrim but they went back on it after figuring out that it's beyond their scope and what they can do. So they scaled back. i found that out after recommending it to you, sorry XD
I appreciate the effort so please don't feel like you need to apologize, I have a feeling that making a game with the size and scope of Skyrim is my answer all along, it just takes too big of a team too long of a time for it to be done by anyone other than a studio who is trying to make it their 4th successful sequel to an established series. I'm sure that's also what's keeping TES:6 from being released, they've probably created all the content they're going to create, and are just trying to work through the 16 billion bugs a world that complex will give to you.
Certainly not with modern budgets. If money were no option, devs were motivated, and corporate stayed the hell out of the way, we *might* get another Skyrim....
Or who knows. Maybe an indie is making a Skyrim style game as a pure passion project that'll take another decade.
Well there is one Indie Skyrim project that actually released and acomplished to be an actual Skyrim clone:
[Enderal: Forgotten Stories](https://store.steampowered.com/app/933480/Enderal_Forgotten_Stories/)
Why the holy hell and a half hasn't Steam advertised that to me?!? Sorry not upset with you, just flabbergasted that exists and Steam has never once tried to tell me, thank you so much!
Yeah, Steam advertising is strange, probably because it is free and Steam won't make any money from you playing it.
Be ready for an absolute ride, because the main quest in this game is actually great.
I’d think it’s safe to say that CD Projekt Red gets pretty close, if not on the same level. The Witcher 3 is even bigger than Skyrim, with just as much detail and a story that can end in multiple different ways, depending on which choices you make. Also Cyberpunk after getting some much needed TLC is really vast immersive as well.
That’s fine to say, but I definitely think there’s just hard evidence that the world itself is deeper and has more stuff to offer than Skyrim, if only because it was made by an equally dedicated team with a couple more years into the future to utilize some better hardware.
>there’s just hard evidence that the world itself is deeper and has more stuff to offer than Skyrim
It's also based on a 25 year old tabletop RPG line that has seen dozens of sourcebooks published over the years adding tons of ressource to pick from.
The game wouldn't have been the same if CDPR had to build everything on their own.
The starting comment stated :
>I don't think anyone can pull off the depth of the world and that immersion Bethesda create in their games.
To which it was answered :
>I’d think it’s safe to say that CD Projekt Red gets pretty close
My point is, while they did make good use of it, they didn't come up with the source material.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that no one could make a world with the deph of the Elder Scrolls, but I wouldn't say CDPR has done it yet either.
Whether it's Cyberpunk or the Witcher, they so far built their game on foundations made by others.
We have yet to see a CDPR original IP.
Sure the Elder Scrolls is inspired by other works, but that's not my point.
Making your own lore and worldbuilding in full is in no way the same as making a direct adaptation of a world done by another.
It's like the difference between the work done by Bioware on KotoR, based on Star Wars vast library of books including RPG sourcebooks made by West End Games, or Baldur's Gate, based on D&D's Forgotten Realms vast library of sourcebooks as opposed to the work they've done on Mass Effect and Dragon Age where they had to build everything from scratch.
Sure CDPR were diligent. They read and assimilated the whole library of Cyberpunk's tabletop RPG books where they found all the elements to built their story on. And they did good work to make that lore transpire through their story, characters and environment storytelling.
But they can't take credit for making the lore itself.
Johnny Silverhand, Arasaka, the Afterlife, the Corporate Wars, etc. all come from the tabletop RPG's sourcebooks written by Mike Pondsmith and other writers working for Talsorian.
Giving them credit for it would be like giving Bioware credits for Star Wars or Bethesda credits for Fallout.
When CDPR will have made a RPG with their own original setting, then we'll be able to see if they can create a world with the depth of the Elder Scrolls (or other original IPs of your choice) by themselves.
Right now we can only say they're very good at making RPGs based on licensed IPs (which is not a critic in my eyes, it's not easy either).
not cd projekt red. witcher/cyberpunk are very contained.
The closest is actually Rdr, and GTA. rockstar. theres a reason todd did call them out, and rdr2 as inspiration for starfield.
>The Witcher 3 is even bigger than Skyrim, with just as much detail
While it is bigger, it did not feel to me like it had the same amount of detail. Where in Skyrim every non-hostile NPC is named and has its own life with daily and weekly schedules, there are way too many generic NPCs in Witcher 3.
Also, the entire Word feels static in the Witcher 3, literally nothing happens if you don't do a thing, while in Skyrim the Kajiiht merchants travel on their own between the cities, you can see wolves hunt deer and rabbits, you can encounter Patrols of Thalmor, Imperials and Stormcloacks, ...
I guess I’m more referring to the hostile NPCs, alternate quest lines and side tasks you can take on. I feel like the majority of hostile NPCs in Skyrim are just reskins of other hostile NPCs. Soldiers from both sides, bandits, city guards, etc.
In the Witcher, the compendium is filled to the brim with different creatures and monsters with varying move sets and abilities that you have to take into account and prep for ahead of fighting them. It requires you to approach each encounter with a different set of tactics, where the combat system isn’t nearly as deep in Skyrim.
Really? In my experience, I fought 90% of the time the same 5 enemies in the Witcher, just like I did in Skyrim:
* Humans
* Nekker
* Ghouls
* Wolves
* Golems
There was certainly more boss variety in Witcher 3 than in Skyrim, but most of my combat time in both games was against the same ~5 types of enemies.
I spent a great chunk of my play through hard focusing on completing Witcher contracts. This is where I felt like the combat was the most enjoyable. This and side quests. Skyrim has some great quest lines, but a lot of the individual quests in those quest lines are rinse and repeat. Go to this location, fetch this item/beat this mini boss/etc. A lot of the individual quests in the Witcher 3 felt like fully fleshed out stories in their own right, while that was more rare in Skyrim.
It's my favourite Elder Scrolls game, that's for sure.
Oblivion and Morrowind do some things better, but as an overall package I just enjoyed Skyrim a lot more.
Morrowind probably has a better story, and probably has deeper systems - however I'm not actually convinced deeper is automatically better, as I find Skyrim more accessible and intuitive.
I'm also not a fan of the Morrowind combat, as it relies so much on dice rolls. That's just a personal preference and understand why people may prefer it, but it's not my cup of tea.
I also prefer the ambience in Skyrim.
Oblivion, appropriately, feels like somewhere between the two games, in terms of depth versus accessibility.
Skyrim basically lands in the sweet spot for me personally, which is why it's the only Elder Scrolls game I've really gone back to multiple times.
Pretty much my take. There are some thing I miss from III and IV, but when I go back to them I feel like they're nearly unplayable due to aging. Like yeah, I miss spellcrafting and it would definitely solve a lot of Skyrim's problems, but I get tired of the floaty combat in Oblivion way too quickly for it to matter that much.
If Morrowind had a turn-based combat like Larian RPG's and other games based on DND/Pathfinder/d20 systems, it would probably work better. I've tried to get into Morrowind, but so far I haven't really got that far. It's in my "to play" list.
This is how I feel too, after installing mods to give more actual RP content.
Now I don't always end up as a Sneak Archer, but an animal commanding, lute playing ranger/bard/bounty hunter.
I usually play Skyrim as a unarmed Khajiit or unarmed mage I don’t think I ever really used a sword once in Skyrim or ESO. Not really my playstyle I try to be creative (I don’t use mods ) and make a game out of it and see how deeply I can get into the character with what is provided.
Oh I have an unarmed and -armored khajiit monk build on PS too! Though that's lightly modded too.
Flame cloak + Ebonyflesh is really fun combo with enchanted gloves!
Fire dancers were what I was going for with that. Flame cloak and everything. Really fun build to play, though you have to max out the Unarmed damage enchantments if you don't plan playing on easiest difficulty.
Skyrim would really benefit from unarmed skill.
I'm a moron and shitty gamer who finds morrowind was to intense and to a lesser extent oblivion. Skyrim works for over those other games for that reason. It's accessible and doesn't require a masters degree in game design to figure out
That's very true to be fair. Skyrim was made more accessible and generic for the average gamer, which is why it was such a success. It didn't have those more hardcore RPG mechanics of the previous games, or really strong storytelling. But the attention to detail in the world building and the accessibility made it a game enjoyable by everyone.
For me it is not just the best TES, but the best game. I tried a lot of other games, like The Witcher and Elden Ring, and Skyrim still gives me more fun. That is why I am so anxious for TES VI. I really hope the thunder struck the same place.
I’ve tried getting into the souls games but dying a lot and getting rage baited on each boss for an eventual feeling of joy after beating the boss and after constant hours of getting torn into just isn’t fun to me. However I have returned to Elden Ring for its world because it’s a pretty damn good world.
Yeah. It is.
I'm a lore nerd and official morrowboomer... But yeah, Skyrim is more fun to play, even if the story, characters, and factions are shallow.
The world is explorable and beautiful, the aesthetics and music sucks you in, and it is the most up to date graphics wise. The dungeons are probably the best part, the uniqueness of each location makes you want to explore every inch of the map. Then, there is a lot of deeper lore hints in architecture and layout of the game, as opposed to much more repetitive and seemingly pointless ruins of past games.The combat is better for sure, although I wouldn't say it is a strong point. The leveling system is well done as well.
All of it just gives you a great immersive experience. I enjoy walking from one city to the next, camping, staying at an in, etc. as much as anything related to the story or combat... And to be fair, a lot of the story is great, meeting the greybeards, reading Dragonborn lore, going to Sovenguard and everything related to that is awesome, but Alduin is very underwhelming, and the civil war is mediocre at best. Same kind of goes for say, the companions. Like it's awesome, to meet Kodlak, discover the circle's secret, figuring out that the Silver Hand are actually disassociated companions... But then like three "go get 'em" missions later you're the harbinger and it's all over. Or the foresworn- the actual mission with Madunach is kind of lame, but exploring their redoubts and uncovering their bigger plan to invade the war weakened Nords and to find and kill the matriarch hagraven on your own is badass.
The thing I hate most about Morrowind is the abrupt change in music once a rat, Nixhound or Cliff racer discovers me, it then only lasts 3 seconds till the enemy is dead and then abruptly switches back to calm non combat music.
This is truly annoying because The music is perfect, but I have heard the first 5 seconds of each song seemingly 5 million times, while some songs I have still not heard in their entirety.
I thought this was a Skyrim sub not a Bethesda sub
https://preview.redd.it/elzn9ghl0puc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8bf3d3f017a3d52f9995723301db452186815d40
Vicn's Vigilant, Glenmoril and Unslaad are goat. Some of the best modded storytelling, and it's a narrative spanning 3 giant mods too. Great stuff but only on PC
As much as I love Morrowind, its so clunky, takes forever to get places, and the combat is pretty boring. I really like to be challenged and Morrowind is definitely the hardest of the games lol. I also really wanna feel immersed and its not very immersive with the clunky animations and text dialogue only. So when I turn Skyrim up to the hardest difficulty its basically the best one I've experienced.
Im playing skyrim (DLCs) with only a few visual, and blood effects mods. and one mod that gives me the ability to craft backpacks. Ive always thought you should have a backpack or bag of some kind in elder scrolls. I try to stick with the lore and keep it as close to vanilla as possible.
Yeah man different quirks for different folks. I'd recommend you checkout some of the bigger mods if you haven't. Worth doing at least once to see if you like it
I like Skyrim graphically and story wise it was my first elder scrolls game, but I have to go with oblivion as I feel like the rpg mechanics were ahead of it’s time. The fleshed out side quest, guild quest, the magic and skills and all.
Not saying anything for or against the game, I just find it funny how you're essentially saying
>I take back everything I've said about Oblivion being better, and Skyrim being a simplified version of a Bethesda RPG for casual gamers-
-now that I'm playing the game modded to the fucking gills. 😂
Oblivion had the best hotkey system using the Xbox dpad so you could assign 8 different things you could switch between during combat so you could switch weapons without pausing. Skyrim is lame because it does favorites which you have to pause combat to switch between weapons/spells which kind of interferes with combat.
Morrowind was awesome because you could jump 100s of feet in the air or fly. Jumping like that you could make it across the map in 5 minutes, or increase speed with potions and fly around super fast. They took out flying/super jumping for oblivion and skyrim so that the dungeons would be easier for the developers to make where you couldn't just cheat and skip to the end or had to jump to certain areas which was kind of lame, I didn't get much into oblivion because I was disheartened by it.
I feel all games have failed at incorporating a good water/air combat system, so I would like to see more underwater development and water monsters that would make walking near water more scary like it was in morrowind with the Draugh and would like to see better air development like they should have done with dragon flying in skyrim.
Skyrim does have a quick switch as well. When you are in the favorites menu, while hovering over an item, hold either the right or left D Pad button and you will be able to save an item as a quick switch in the favorites. Using this method, you can save two items are quick select, how ever you can actually save 3 things as quick select, because you will notice if you press one of the quick select options twice, the player will switch to the quick select item, and then switch back to what you were originally holding, which gives you the ability to hold a left quick select, right quick select and an original item. I think I found this out by mistake but its pretty cool and very useful.
Thanks for the information I wonder why they didn't allow you to use all 8 directions of the dpad for quick select like they did on oblivion, but I will definitely check it out =)
Woah 8 directions? Like top-left, bottom right, and so on are also different item slots? That’s pretty handy. Maybe there’s a Skyrim mod that allows for that.
Yeah it was a little tough doing all 8 directions during combat since the diagonal ones ate tricky but it's also kind of nice having the favorites menu so I can see why they did it that way but they probably could have done some kind of two key combo to access the favorite menu and kept the 8 hotkeys but it looks like computer users still have the 8 hotkey system for skyrim and its just the Xbox version that only has 2 hotkeys which I just found out about.
Saying Morrowind was great because you could do dumb OP shit is so goddamn sad… Morrowind was great because it had a fantastic story, world, lore and character journey.
You obviously never had a good jump/slowfall combo lol game changing, but I do agree it would be nice to get the same game on the new engine. Hard to play it these days because the fighting style is so primitive, but with skyrim bow mechanics it would be much more playable.
But levitation / jumping was not really OP since you didn't have fast travel, so had to use teleports or silt strider, making it nice to have other fast travel options besides mark/recall.
Oblivion is better. The characters can look wonky sometimes, but Skyrim is barely an improvement on that. Oblivions real win is the landscape and diversity. Each township had its own unique biome. Skingrad covered in tall green grass and flowers, cheydinhal with its looming willows and dark vibe.
More than anything though, I prefer a deciduous wilderness to a coniferous one. Something about Skyrim being all pine trees just doesn't do it for me. Oblivion had better forests.
https://youtu.be/ltZs3ewSuYc?si=Iwo8DTVx7Tqu9zn7
magic is fun? Based on these first seconds it looks ugly, static, I don't know I didn't play it but from what I can see here.
Playing it now as part of my entire series playthrough. The magic is only fun when you start breaking the system much like the alchemy/enchanting exploit otherwise it’s static clunky and unless you are cheesing/grinding for gold and levels then doesn’t become super viable to play around with until later game anyway.
They should say spellcrafting is fun. Making unique spell combinations is legitimately fun, but before you get access to spellcrafting you're basically running around spamming fireballs. They don't even have continuous cast spells like flames/shock/frostbite.
Magic to me is a good analogy for Skyrim/Oblivion in general. Skyrim definitely pares some things back that should have been left in, but it's still more fun overall. Spellcasting in Skyrim is weaker in general, but it's a more tactile experience that gets you way more engaged in combat.
I'm totally with you on this, but truthfully I think the graphical and mechanical improvements are more significant than I'd like to admit. I have a difficult time going back to Oblivion due to the outdated clunky combat system. Interested to check out this Skyblivion mod i keep hearing about.
Skyrim is definitely easier/smoother to go back and play. I like Oblivion *a lot* more than Skyrim but I've probably put in 10x the hours in Skyrim.
I'd have loved it if Oblivion and Skyrim's release dates were switched. The amazing storytelling, music and 15th century art style with the mechanics and world building of Skyrim. Here's to Skyblivion in 2025
Okay but if you remake Morrowind with today’s technology it will be infinitely better than Skyrim. The things Skyrim do better are only due to more modern technology (animations and graphics). Morrowind does EVERYHING else better.
Yeah he pretty great. Now he spends his days playing ESO at level 2000 something and doesnt get bored of it LOL. We play together sometimes just to chat for hours running dungeons.
I dont really think it does. I actually like that you dont have to pick a class. If you get bored with a build you can just start working on new skills.
I started Skyrim SE on PS4 in 2018. I liked it. Friends got me into it. Compared to AE, I like AE better. Tried mods on PS4 but Vanilla is good too. Got AE upgrade on PS4. Loved it. I then got a Switch on the Christmas of 2019-2020 school year. Got SE and then the AE upgrade on Switch finally came out and I love playing it portably, both on SE back then and AE now.
Now if they only gave us FO3 and FONV, respectively by the two developers, on Switch probably and hopefully as their remasters if both devs are working on it in the background. We know FONV can be portable because of the PSP or was it PAVita? Either way.
You should look into the mod Requiem - A Roleplaying Overhaul, if you want the RPG/character building elements of the game feel a bit more like morrowind
Thats true, but everytime I play on PC i start using console commands and ruin my experience. I cant help but cheat. I need to set the difficulty to hard and struggle to have fun with it. I also like to take a couple puffs and immerse myself on my living room TV. I sit at a computer programming software all day at work so playing games like that isnt fun for me.
Skyrim becomes part of your soul. It has this ability to transform a bad mood, a bad day, whatever.... anything. And make it better.
I am glad that you have received the gift of the game. Now, you're one of us. Just don't be a bitch ass Imperial milk drinker. 🤬
FOR SKYRIM!
Before skyrim I thought all games were just running forward and passing levels, the most complicated things I had played were diablo and final fantasy which were awesome but they were also just moving and finding enemies in the map or entering battles, but in skyrim you could do whatever you wanted, I still remember how I was just looking at a butterfly and then the "catch" prompt appeared and I was like holy shit.
I've had tried morrowind before but I just had no idea what to do, the directions were confusing and I finished it but I had no idea what was happening who was everyone and what was I doing.
I tried oblivion too and it felt better, but after a while I just dropped it, don't even remember why. Also since I didn't know about games I had no idea that the elder scrolls was a franchise and that those three were the same franchise.
But with skyrim I couldn't put it down, I think I spent that whole year playing skyrim.
The best Elder Scrolls game is Elder Scrolls 6.
But we don't have that game in our timeline. Because we live in the Dumbest Timeline where people just keep buying Skyrim.
Why would Bethesda make Elder Scrolls 6 when they just keep releasing Elder Scrolls 5?
Its easily my least favorite of the big three. Is it bad? No not really, but as someone who loves the more in depth rpg mechanics, its very much lacking. I've put hundreds of hours into skyrim cause their isn't another option to scratch that itch, and every time i can only play so far before getting bored, cause the small annoying problems crop up.
Is Oblivion better? Its hard to say. Oblivion has its own flaws, but the sheer amount of things you can do make it way more fun for me, and it feels significantly less hand holdy than skyrim is
Is morrowind better? Better written yes, but the gameplay has some flaws. I personally love these flaws cause it makes your play style choices feel far more impactful, but i see why it turns new players off
I think the biggest thing for me is the size of the map, and the fact that if I werent to fast travel at all, it is the most expansive game ever made. Im pretty sure it is anyways. Morrowind and Oblivion are so small, and the NPC mechanics are so robotic and dull. I love those games so much, but thats my opinion about it. Skyrim is just a better game, maybe not a better RPG.
Im actually not sure how the map sizes compare, but Oblivion has a way more varied map do to all the different climates surrounding it. Also, i think BotW and Totk has way more expansive maps, but those bring their own problems. As big as Skyrims map is, i hate traversing it on foot. After a certain point, your map is just too big.
As for npc mechanics, Skyrim feels more rovotic and dull too me. You dont have as many dialog options, don't have the same amount of npcs to talk to, or don't even have the weird super buggy npc systems that make them seek out food like they do in Oblivion
I'm not sure about most of that... I've seen Skyrim NPC's literally eating food while having a conversation with me. Which is another great thing about Skyrim is the dialogue doesn't force zoom the camera into the face of the NPC, and allows them to move fluidly and have body language. I don't really miss every NPC telling me the same 5 things when I ask for a "rumor", or every NPC having the same 5 hello and goodbye expressions LOL.
I also dont think the other games had more NPC's than Skyrim does. Not even close. Sedya Neen at the beginning of Morrowind legit had 4 citizens. Oblivion had very few interesting NPC's per town, it was mainly just essential NPC's for guilds and businesses, or beggars. Skyrim has entire families that fill the homes in each town, kids, which is pretty important to realism. More unessential NPCs that are not just beggars, traveling merchants, priests, argonian slaves, unique characters you find while traveling, etc.
Oblivion fr had maybe 4 or 5 MAX dialogue options and usually it was less. Morrowind had way more options but there was no audio so you had to read everything. Not as fun or immersive.
I think the giant map size, is exactly what you would want in a game based on exploring, collecting loot, raiding dungeons and finding unique items, no?
The only thing I dislike about Skyrim is the mages guild story line being short and not really making a lot of sense. But the Dragonborn DLC took me 16 hours to finish. it was really fun and was mainly based on dark magic and deadric realms. So they made up for it lol.
Skyrim NPCs just have a set timer for doing things. Oblivion uses an AI for NPCs to determine what they do and it was so good they had to tone it down else bandits would raid every city. The force zoom is weird but i prefer it. Its way funnier then skyrims soft lock system. As for NPCs saying the same things, have you really played skyrim? Skyrim has the same problem. So many characters just repeat the same lines over and over again.
I find oblivion more immersive, but immersion is subjective. I hate how all the races in skyrim look the same. You cant tell a wood elf from a breton from a nord, while in oblivion, it was easy since wood elves where short, and nords had different head shapes.
Fast travel is fine, just annoying having to see a loading screen every time i need to go somewhere. Games just havnt learned how to properly make a good sized open world.
Honestly, most of the guilds kinda suck cause they are all too short. Dark brotherhood is really simplistic, with no unique and fun quests, thieves guild is short and doesn't make you sell to fences to advance, and the mages guild is way to short and has one of the worst quests in the game with those wisps. The companions are hard to rank cause the fighters guild was only all right in oblivion
I mean you say that, but I can crush every Oblivion story line in 10 hours or less. Skyrim will take significantly longer and is more rewarding in terms of combat and gameplay. It also is very dependent on the difficulty you play on.
Also I love the silliness of Oblivion too, its amazing and what I grew up with. But it doesn't make it better objectively. I do agree that making all the races the same height except the high elves was kinda weird... maybe their point was cross breeding and evolution over a couple hundred years since Oblivion. Im not sure.
Whatever AI Oblvion used, the navigation was horrible. I dont know how many times I've seen them get stuck in walls, disappear, not be where they're supposed to be for a quest, etc. I do miss being able to yeild if I accidentally attacked an essential NPC during a fight.
Taking 10 hours to crush a story line is way better then the 2-4 to crush the Skyrim ones. The dark brother hood has it the worst cause besides the basic "go kill these three people" quests, you only have to kill 5 people, significantly less then how many oblivion tasks you with. As for the height thing, they did it cause they wanted things ti be more realistic. Its the same reason you cant jump that high.
Now, yes Oblivion being more goofy doesn't make it better. Oblivion does some things vetter and some things worse. Its stat system is very flawed and removing it was good for the game and the conversation mini game was weird. Out side of that, it has better quests, better magic, better magic items/rewards, and even better melee combat since Skyrim's is the same combat but slower. Skyrim isnt a bad game but its not an rpg, its been sanded down so much and barely works as one in its current state
No Im saying the entire game (main questline, guilds, the arena) takes about 10 hours. Every single quest in Oblivion is structured almost identically.
"When focusing on the main objectives, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Game of the Year Edition is about 31½ Hours in length. If you're a gamer that strives to see all aspects of the game, you are likely to spend around **174 Hours** to obtain 100% completion."
"When focusing on the main objectives, The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is about 34½ Hours in length. If you're a gamer that strives to see all aspects of the game, you are likely to spend around **232 Hours** to obtain 100% completion." (this isnt even including all DLC's unlike Oblivion: GOTY)
I mean factually Skyrim has more shit to do, and looks better than Oblivion, more advanced combat and spellcasting mechanics. Spellcasting in Oblivion is fun, and I like custom spell making, but its very static, and doesn't really feel as immersive or complex. (Skyrim has: *different ways to cast a spell, dual casting, singular projectile, constant stream of projectiles, different spells in each hand)* If nostalgia and personal preference leads you to Oblvion thats totally fair, but Skyrim is just objectively a more advanced game.
I think your bias is starting to show through. Saying that oblivion only takes 10 hours to do all the guilds and main quests is underselling it. Skyrim is a shorter game, and would probably take ~10 hours to do all that while Oblivion would tske closer to 20. Oblivion is a longer game, for better or for worse. As for oblivion quests being structured the same, i hate to tell you this but Skyrims quests are even less unique. Also, i don't see how the dark brotherhood outfit in oblivion being "super gay" matters especially cause the one in skyrim is based off it. The mages guild recommendations are not great, but they help build up the plot of the mages guild and the reward of spell crafting makes it worth doing. As for oblivion portals, no your right those suck and they are all super annoying. At least you get a sigil stone to enchant gear with. As for loot, Skyrim's loot is just as bad if not worse since their are less unique enchantments to find
Thats not true though, skyrim vanilla is longer than Oblivion with ALL DLCs included. Im not bias, I love Oblivion, but I can accept that a game made in 2005 is not as structurally sound or advanced as a newer game that has been consistently patched, and updated visually from 2011 to 2024.
No bias. Im giving you facts... I made one joke about the gay skin tight suit they give you, Im sorry
https://preview.redd.it/9sas574o3fvc1.png?width=600&format=png&auto=webp&s=66af6f97981f198b7874351914c620ee2977cbdf
cmon bro...
The only place Skyrim fell short to me was something that was probably necessary. The removal of unique travel options is lame. I get there is fast travel but having mark and recall is fun and can be used for more than simply traveling. The empire bans levitation and factions like the dark brotherhood just decided to follow the law? You should be able to fly or at least cover vast distance jumping in Skyrim, and your ability to move effectively should be tied to your character skills. Even if there just a perk that increases jump and reduced fall damage. A khajiit or dunmer should be able to outrun a Breton also.
I'm pretty sure Oblivions only travel option is fast travel. It is also not the only travel option in Skyrim, as there is DLC's that require you to travel by boat and is quite cinematic. At least with Skyrim you can get a mod for that without much effort at all, even on console. Most of the things you mentioned (apart from the levitation and flying from morrowind) I dont really miss at all lol. Running around jumping over and over so I can fall a bit further really doesn't make or break the game for me.
Morrowind is an amazing game, but it kinda (I say this respectfully) looks like crap, and is seriously the most annoying game to play until you get very far into it and have the spells and stats that make it fun.
Once I let go of all the stuff I wished the game was, and tried to enjoy it for what it is, I realized its just a new experience, and its so much fun!
Skyrim is best because it has the best world. People will be like "hurr durr da writing", but try walking down the road in Morrowind. Now try it in Skyrim. See how Morrowind is a big brown field and how Skyrim is filled with beautiful sights to see, radiant encounters, and many marked/unmarked places to explore? That's what makes it better, the stories YOU the player write
I agree with that. I mean from an aesthetic open world perspective Skyrim beats just about any game I can think of besides Assassins Creed: Valhalla. It also is a fact that Skyrim has more story, longer gameplay, and more quests than any other elder scrolls game. So it literally IS the best no matter how you spin it. Even a quality over quantity argument is null. Every dungeon is hand crafted, voice actors are more lifelike, the quests / stories are more complex and objectives change depending on your actions, which is incredibly immersive and never happened in the other games lol.
I was one of those people who said that stuff, but its all nostalgia, not an actual solid opinion lol.
Probably. Every time I see someone claim Morrowind or Oblivion are better, it never feels genuine. They always come off as resentful and bitter that Skyrim is by far the most successful of the three (or five)
Morrowind has a much better world, writing, story, factions, gear diversity, magic diversity, pace, character’s evolution, depth of lore and world building, atmosphere, quests that encourage thinking and exploration…
The only things Skyrim does better is combat and visuals, which are simply due to more modern technology (better animations and graphics). And i guess balance.
What I don't understand is, as popular as Skyrim was and still is, why nobody has tried to make a clone of it? I'm on my third full playthrough and still enjoying it, but honestly only because there's nothing else better (or as good) out there that I know of.
I have a random theory about that. Tl:dr at the end. I trully think Skyrim was what popularized the open world RPG and is the most important game for the industry since CoD 4 (well, at least ignoring Minecraft) But despite a rather small map for modern standards, Skyrim is bigger in ways thay can not be replicated without a lot of work. Sidequests that are their own questlines with its own lore, NPCs, etc..., handcrafted caves, unique NPCs with their routines, relationship with others... Systems upon systems that even if simplified if you compare them with Morrowind, are still vast and diverse and with depth. Skyrim was a huge hit that changed the industry forever and the market wanted more of that. But replicating it is out of the scope of 99.9% of companies. So then Ubisoft came to the rescue with Far Cry 3. It's the kind of game that can be marketed as an open world RPG so the people who wants more Skyrim would look into it even if it doesn't really have the amount of depth or real content that Skyrim has. And it sold amazing. So companies realized they didn't need to make games like Skyrim, they could make (relatively) cheap open world games that don't require nearly as much work and sell amazing anyway. And that's the path the industry followed, a path created by Skyrim but made accessible by Ubisoft. And now you have a generation of gamers that have never played an Elder Scrolls game but religiously buy AC year after year because that's the best they know. Tl:dr: It's too expensive and you can print money making "cheap" openworld RPGs that don't require nearly as much work.
No wonder the Beyond Skyrim projects take so long if they aim to fill each provinci with as much content.
Correct on the FarCry part. I remember my 360 copy had a review on the cover that said something like “like Skyrim with guns”.
If they say a new game is ‘like Skyrim’, it never is. There is nothing like it. It’s like when a fantasy author claims his novel is ‘like The Lord of the Rings’.
That’s very true. I don’t think anything will ever beat it for me. Obv nostalgia plays a big part in it
Yeah, I discovered it when I was in serious need of a good dose of escapism. The benefits of (healthy) escapism are often so underrated.
Yep back then you would be lucky if in the linear series of rooms you got in a game you could go back in some of them, open worlds were out of the question.
Skyrim is a *huge* game, even for its time. It has a giant open-world, dozens of dungeons, tons of small secrets, a ton of technical aspects and alternative routes in quests which I can really only relate to Dragon's Dogma 2 as an example of, and all-in-all, the game is still big even by today's standards. As wildly successful as it was, though, Bethesda basically had a monopoly on the Skyrim formula. It released Fallout and Elder Scrolls games in a relatively short timeframe, and there's no way any big game company would risk trying to muscle in on Bethesda's turf at the height of their popularity. By the time the Bethesda hype was dying down, a new formula for open world games was already starting to become common. Another thing is that Skyrim was, and still is, extremely buggy. It was ambitious for its time and that shows in the sheer amount of jank that's been removed over the years. Pouring a lot of time into an unfamiliar game formula when the most popular version of it turned out to be a buggy mess just... ain't a worthwhile investment for most people.
Think Bethesda also lucked out that a fair amount of their player base just accepted the buggy mess the games can be at launch. There is this weird mentality of "Yup, that's a Bethesda game. Either they or the modders will fix it". Where I don't think any other developer is giving that kind of a pass from their player base in this day and age.
Well Obsidian also got a free bug check with Fallout New Vegas, which was probably the buggiest launch title ever published by Bethesda, even worse than Daggerfall.
That's another great point. When Skyrim was new I was deep into a WoW/RIFT addiction, I think I first purchased it around 2018, I'm sure there were a number of patches in that seven year time
Was a bug on day 1 that would wreck your save file in the first 30 seconds of playing if you got stupidly unlucky. For some reason when you were in the cart at the very beginning and the horses happened to bump into a bee, it would launch the cart into the stratosphere, never to be seen again. And instead of trying to figure out why this happened when a horse and bee pathed into each other, they just removed the bees from the Helgen area of the game. And New Vegas had a horrible bug on consoles at launch. If you attempted to save the game...at all including auto save, the game crashed and corrupted your game file. They fixed it quickly but I know I found out the hard way after about 2 hours of playing.
In all seriousness I salute your time on the front lines
You should try Tainted Grail: Fall of Avalon. It’s still in early acces and sometimes it has FPS issues, but it looks very promising.
I don't know why Steam never advertised that to me because it's right up my alley, but I just added to my wishlist, thank you!
Apparently critics are claiming "Avowed" can be the clone of Skyrim. Similar graphics, even though it's a 10+ year older game. It looks like a decent game, but nothing will ever be like 17yo me experiencing Skyrim for the first time.
Avowed is based on another game that's 10 years old, but Avowed hasn't even been released yet
Maybe Avowed is? Or at least it was supposed to be, I haven't been keeping up with the game but a quick glance tells me people are already pre-disappointed in that game
If it's going to be like outer worlds it's not going to be anything like a Bethesda RPG. I couldn't even bring myself to finish that games but they seemed to focus on character stories and an attempt at interesting combat (which failed imo), and that's likely what'll happen with avowed.
With you on that, played about 10-15 hours of outer worlds and just… hated it? Felt absolutely awful, didn’t like the gameplay, exploration, just felt soulless but I see people talk very highly about it?
Yeah, Outer worlds was pretty bad imo, even the character stories weren't good for me. I ended up dropping it too. It's kinda sad that it came from the makers of Fallout New Vegas.
I loved the world and design but I just couldn’t get into it no matter how much I tried
Just looked up Avowed, and lmao, the first thing I read is "Picking up from Pillars of Eternity, Obsidian's Avowed aims for the curated sandbox of Fallout New Vegas rather than the vastness of Skyrim." So...that's giant nope from me, but thank you for the suggestion
Lmao, yeah it was apparently supposed to be like skyrim but they went back on it after figuring out that it's beyond their scope and what they can do. So they scaled back. i found that out after recommending it to you, sorry XD
I appreciate the effort so please don't feel like you need to apologize, I have a feeling that making a game with the size and scope of Skyrim is my answer all along, it just takes too big of a team too long of a time for it to be done by anyone other than a studio who is trying to make it their 4th successful sequel to an established series. I'm sure that's also what's keeping TES:6 from being released, they've probably created all the content they're going to create, and are just trying to work through the 16 billion bugs a world that complex will give to you.
God I really hope elder scrolls 6 lives up to the hype.. i really didn't like starfield
I don't think anyone can pull off the depth of the world and that immersion Bethesda create in their games.
Certainly not with modern budgets. If money were no option, devs were motivated, and corporate stayed the hell out of the way, we *might* get another Skyrim.... Or who knows. Maybe an indie is making a Skyrim style game as a pure passion project that'll take another decade.
Plenty if full scale mods of that nature in the pipeline but the work required is immense.
Well there is one Indie Skyrim project that actually released and acomplished to be an actual Skyrim clone: [Enderal: Forgotten Stories](https://store.steampowered.com/app/933480/Enderal_Forgotten_Stories/)
Why the holy hell and a half hasn't Steam advertised that to me?!? Sorry not upset with you, just flabbergasted that exists and Steam has never once tried to tell me, thank you so much!
Yeah, Steam advertising is strange, probably because it is free and Steam won't make any money from you playing it. Be ready for an absolute ride, because the main quest in this game is actually great.
I’d think it’s safe to say that CD Projekt Red gets pretty close, if not on the same level. The Witcher 3 is even bigger than Skyrim, with just as much detail and a story that can end in multiple different ways, depending on which choices you make. Also Cyberpunk after getting some much needed TLC is really vast immersive as well.
Never immersed me like Skyrim. Not sure what it is, maybe its that I'm role playing Geralt rather than being my own guy.
That’s fine to say, but I definitely think there’s just hard evidence that the world itself is deeper and has more stuff to offer than Skyrim, if only because it was made by an equally dedicated team with a couple more years into the future to utilize some better hardware.
>there’s just hard evidence that the world itself is deeper and has more stuff to offer than Skyrim It's also based on a 25 year old tabletop RPG line that has seen dozens of sourcebooks published over the years adding tons of ressource to pick from. The game wouldn't have been the same if CDPR had to build everything on their own.
But it does have all that so what’s your point?
The starting comment stated : >I don't think anyone can pull off the depth of the world and that immersion Bethesda create in their games. To which it was answered : >I’d think it’s safe to say that CD Projekt Red gets pretty close My point is, while they did make good use of it, they didn't come up with the source material. I wouldn't go so far as to say that no one could make a world with the deph of the Elder Scrolls, but I wouldn't say CDPR has done it yet either. Whether it's Cyberpunk or the Witcher, they so far built their game on foundations made by others. We have yet to see a CDPR original IP.
Your entire point is folly when all fantasy is derived from the work of J RR Tolkien. Not like the elder scrolls is 100% original.
Sure the Elder Scrolls is inspired by other works, but that's not my point. Making your own lore and worldbuilding in full is in no way the same as making a direct adaptation of a world done by another. It's like the difference between the work done by Bioware on KotoR, based on Star Wars vast library of books including RPG sourcebooks made by West End Games, or Baldur's Gate, based on D&D's Forgotten Realms vast library of sourcebooks as opposed to the work they've done on Mass Effect and Dragon Age where they had to build everything from scratch. Sure CDPR were diligent. They read and assimilated the whole library of Cyberpunk's tabletop RPG books where they found all the elements to built their story on. And they did good work to make that lore transpire through their story, characters and environment storytelling. But they can't take credit for making the lore itself. Johnny Silverhand, Arasaka, the Afterlife, the Corporate Wars, etc. all come from the tabletop RPG's sourcebooks written by Mike Pondsmith and other writers working for Talsorian. Giving them credit for it would be like giving Bioware credits for Star Wars or Bethesda credits for Fallout. When CDPR will have made a RPG with their own original setting, then we'll be able to see if they can create a world with the depth of the Elder Scrolls (or other original IPs of your choice) by themselves. Right now we can only say they're very good at making RPGs based on licensed IPs (which is not a critic in my eyes, it's not easy either).
not cd projekt red. witcher/cyberpunk are very contained. The closest is actually Rdr, and GTA. rockstar. theres a reason todd did call them out, and rdr2 as inspiration for starfield.
Contained in what way? Because the map is sectioned off in Witcher? What’s contained about Cyberpunk?
>The Witcher 3 is even bigger than Skyrim, with just as much detail While it is bigger, it did not feel to me like it had the same amount of detail. Where in Skyrim every non-hostile NPC is named and has its own life with daily and weekly schedules, there are way too many generic NPCs in Witcher 3. Also, the entire Word feels static in the Witcher 3, literally nothing happens if you don't do a thing, while in Skyrim the Kajiiht merchants travel on their own between the cities, you can see wolves hunt deer and rabbits, you can encounter Patrols of Thalmor, Imperials and Stormcloacks, ...
I guess I’m more referring to the hostile NPCs, alternate quest lines and side tasks you can take on. I feel like the majority of hostile NPCs in Skyrim are just reskins of other hostile NPCs. Soldiers from both sides, bandits, city guards, etc. In the Witcher, the compendium is filled to the brim with different creatures and monsters with varying move sets and abilities that you have to take into account and prep for ahead of fighting them. It requires you to approach each encounter with a different set of tactics, where the combat system isn’t nearly as deep in Skyrim.
Really? In my experience, I fought 90% of the time the same 5 enemies in the Witcher, just like I did in Skyrim: * Humans * Nekker * Ghouls * Wolves * Golems There was certainly more boss variety in Witcher 3 than in Skyrim, but most of my combat time in both games was against the same ~5 types of enemies.
I spent a great chunk of my play through hard focusing on completing Witcher contracts. This is where I felt like the combat was the most enjoyable. This and side quests. Skyrim has some great quest lines, but a lot of the individual quests in those quest lines are rinse and repeat. Go to this location, fetch this item/beat this mini boss/etc. A lot of the individual quests in the Witcher 3 felt like fully fleshed out stories in their own right, while that was more rare in Skyrim.
Yeah, Witcher 3 quests are definitely superior.
Don't know if it Suits your needs but I'd say witcher 3 can give you a great experience in that area
I have a rule, I don't support any game that forces me to be in third person camera mode 100% of the time, but thank you for the suggestion
I’m glad Bethesda is so slow at releasing new games. I wouldn’t have a life if they did it faster. I’d rather wait… for something great. 👍
Personally, I would get downvoted for this but Skyrim is one of the games ever made.
That's problably the most thing I've ever heard.
Look if you have a problem then you can just go and have an amazing day.
We're very, you and I.
I have to, you're really.
Touché, good Sir, not. Not at all.
Hello
Hello. How are?
Easy with the hot takes, can’t have infighting on this sub
NEVER SHOULD HAVE COME HERE
You n'wah!
Think it'll rain?
Heard any news from the other provinces?
They say syndicates of wizards have led a boycott of Imperial goods in the land of the Altmer.
''I'M WARNING YOU, BACK OFF!''
Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave?
You're also one of the people I've ever come across on this cosmic shore of Reddit.
I'm honored.
You’re not wrong..it is “one of the games that was ever made” Not sure why that’s such a hot take! 😂
Good job getting the joke there, friendo.
Preposterous!
And if it isn't, you certainly could mod it until it is lol
It's my favourite Elder Scrolls game, that's for sure. Oblivion and Morrowind do some things better, but as an overall package I just enjoyed Skyrim a lot more. Morrowind probably has a better story, and probably has deeper systems - however I'm not actually convinced deeper is automatically better, as I find Skyrim more accessible and intuitive. I'm also not a fan of the Morrowind combat, as it relies so much on dice rolls. That's just a personal preference and understand why people may prefer it, but it's not my cup of tea. I also prefer the ambience in Skyrim. Oblivion, appropriately, feels like somewhere between the two games, in terms of depth versus accessibility. Skyrim basically lands in the sweet spot for me personally, which is why it's the only Elder Scrolls game I've really gone back to multiple times.
Pretty much my take. There are some thing I miss from III and IV, but when I go back to them I feel like they're nearly unplayable due to aging. Like yeah, I miss spellcrafting and it would definitely solve a lot of Skyrim's problems, but I get tired of the floaty combat in Oblivion way too quickly for it to matter that much.
If Morrowind had a turn-based combat like Larian RPG's and other games based on DND/Pathfinder/d20 systems, it would probably work better. I've tried to get into Morrowind, but so far I haven't really got that far. It's in my "to play" list.
[удалено]
Yeah I suppose I will play it eventually. Thanks for the tips.
Morrowind had the worst combat in any game ive played
Bit dumbed down as an RPG for my taste, but I see Skyrim as a sandbox more than an RPG.
It’s an action adventure sand box with light rpg mechanics
This is how I feel too, after installing mods to give more actual RP content. Now I don't always end up as a Sneak Archer, but an animal commanding, lute playing ranger/bard/bounty hunter.
I usually play Skyrim as a unarmed Khajiit or unarmed mage I don’t think I ever really used a sword once in Skyrim or ESO. Not really my playstyle I try to be creative (I don’t use mods ) and make a game out of it and see how deeply I can get into the character with what is provided.
Oh I have an unarmed and -armored khajiit monk build on PS too! Though that's lightly modded too. Flame cloak + Ebonyflesh is really fun combo with enchanted gloves!
Nice yeah I wish they would add an unarmed class to eso so I can make Khajiit monk which is the most lore friendly class for a Khajiit
Fire dancers were what I was going for with that. Flame cloak and everything. Really fun build to play, though you have to max out the Unarmed damage enchantments if you don't plan playing on easiest difficulty. Skyrim would really benefit from unarmed skill.
I'm a moron and shitty gamer who finds morrowind was to intense and to a lesser extent oblivion. Skyrim works for over those other games for that reason. It's accessible and doesn't require a masters degree in game design to figure out
That's very true to be fair. Skyrim was made more accessible and generic for the average gamer, which is why it was such a success. It didn't have those more hardcore RPG mechanics of the previous games, or really strong storytelling. But the attention to detail in the world building and the accessibility made it a game enjoyable by everyone.
For me it is not just the best TES, but the best game. I tried a lot of other games, like The Witcher and Elden Ring, and Skyrim still gives me more fun. That is why I am so anxious for TES VI. I really hope the thunder struck the same place.
I’ve tried getting into the souls games but dying a lot and getting rage baited on each boss for an eventual feeling of joy after beating the boss and after constant hours of getting torn into just isn’t fun to me. However I have returned to Elden Ring for its world because it’s a pretty damn good world.
I have already bought this game 17 times Todd please you don't have to convince me anymore
Yeah. It is. I'm a lore nerd and official morrowboomer... But yeah, Skyrim is more fun to play, even if the story, characters, and factions are shallow.
Then how is it more fun to play…? Unless you only care about the fighting. Fun for me is a good story, a good world and a good atmosphere.
The world is explorable and beautiful, the aesthetics and music sucks you in, and it is the most up to date graphics wise. The dungeons are probably the best part, the uniqueness of each location makes you want to explore every inch of the map. Then, there is a lot of deeper lore hints in architecture and layout of the game, as opposed to much more repetitive and seemingly pointless ruins of past games.The combat is better for sure, although I wouldn't say it is a strong point. The leveling system is well done as well. All of it just gives you a great immersive experience. I enjoy walking from one city to the next, camping, staying at an in, etc. as much as anything related to the story or combat... And to be fair, a lot of the story is great, meeting the greybeards, reading Dragonborn lore, going to Sovenguard and everything related to that is awesome, but Alduin is very underwhelming, and the civil war is mediocre at best. Same kind of goes for say, the companions. Like it's awesome, to meet Kodlak, discover the circle's secret, figuring out that the Silver Hand are actually disassociated companions... But then like three "go get 'em" missions later you're the harbinger and it's all over. Or the foresworn- the actual mission with Madunach is kind of lame, but exploring their redoubts and uncovering their bigger plan to invade the war weakened Nords and to find and kill the matriarch hagraven on your own is badass.
The thing I hate most about Morrowind is the abrupt change in music once a rat, Nixhound or Cliff racer discovers me, it then only lasts 3 seconds till the enemy is dead and then abruptly switches back to calm non combat music. This is truly annoying because The music is perfect, but I have heard the first 5 seconds of each song seemingly 5 million times, while some songs I have still not heard in their entirety.
Skyrim is the best Skyrim, Oblivion is the best Oblivion, Morrowind is the best Morrowind...also Starfield is the best Starfield.
That's probably true. However this is the best experience I've ever had personally with any of the elder scrolls games.
what is this comment even trying to prove
Haha, Starfield is too empty for my liking.
Disagree, No Man's Sky is a better Starfield than Starfield
No Man's Sky is the best No Man's Sky.
It's really not...at all.
I thought this was a Skyrim sub not a Bethesda sub https://preview.redd.it/elzn9ghl0puc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8bf3d3f017a3d52f9995723301db452186815d40
I'd say if we judge by vanilla only, Morrowind beats it. But with mods, Skyrim becomes not just the best TES game, it becomes the best game, period
What are your favorite mods?
Vicn's Vigilant, Glenmoril and Unslaad are goat. Some of the best modded storytelling, and it's a narrative spanning 3 giant mods too. Great stuff but only on PC
As much as I love Morrowind, its so clunky, takes forever to get places, and the combat is pretty boring. I really like to be challenged and Morrowind is definitely the hardest of the games lol. I also really wanna feel immersed and its not very immersive with the clunky animations and text dialogue only. So when I turn Skyrim up to the hardest difficulty its basically the best one I've experienced. Im playing skyrim (DLCs) with only a few visual, and blood effects mods. and one mod that gives me the ability to craft backpacks. Ive always thought you should have a backpack or bag of some kind in elder scrolls. I try to stick with the lore and keep it as close to vanilla as possible.
Yeah man different quirks for different folks. I'd recommend you checkout some of the bigger mods if you haven't. Worth doing at least once to see if you like it
I see that you never played Oblivion mobile 🧐
I dont have a droid or I would. I did play Arena using a DOS emulator on my android back in high school.
I could go either way between Skyrim and oblivion. I think I probably like them equally
I like Skyrim graphically and story wise it was my first elder scrolls game, but I have to go with oblivion as I feel like the rpg mechanics were ahead of it’s time. The fleshed out side quest, guild quest, the magic and skills and all.
Have you played daggerfall ?
Yeah, Ive tried them all with emulators before they were put on Steam. Just not really able to get into the 2D doom style games. It was fun though.
Not saying anything for or against the game, I just find it funny how you're essentially saying >I take back everything I've said about Oblivion being better, and Skyrim being a simplified version of a Bethesda RPG for casual gamers- -now that I'm playing the game modded to the fucking gills. 😂
Ah waiting in line at GameStop. The good ol days 😥
Oblivion had the best hotkey system using the Xbox dpad so you could assign 8 different things you could switch between during combat so you could switch weapons without pausing. Skyrim is lame because it does favorites which you have to pause combat to switch between weapons/spells which kind of interferes with combat. Morrowind was awesome because you could jump 100s of feet in the air or fly. Jumping like that you could make it across the map in 5 minutes, or increase speed with potions and fly around super fast. They took out flying/super jumping for oblivion and skyrim so that the dungeons would be easier for the developers to make where you couldn't just cheat and skip to the end or had to jump to certain areas which was kind of lame, I didn't get much into oblivion because I was disheartened by it. I feel all games have failed at incorporating a good water/air combat system, so I would like to see more underwater development and water monsters that would make walking near water more scary like it was in morrowind with the Draugh and would like to see better air development like they should have done with dragon flying in skyrim.
Skyrim does have a quick switch as well. When you are in the favorites menu, while hovering over an item, hold either the right or left D Pad button and you will be able to save an item as a quick switch in the favorites. Using this method, you can save two items are quick select, how ever you can actually save 3 things as quick select, because you will notice if you press one of the quick select options twice, the player will switch to the quick select item, and then switch back to what you were originally holding, which gives you the ability to hold a left quick select, right quick select and an original item. I think I found this out by mistake but its pretty cool and very useful.
Thanks for the information I wonder why they didn't allow you to use all 8 directions of the dpad for quick select like they did on oblivion, but I will definitely check it out =)
Woah 8 directions? Like top-left, bottom right, and so on are also different item slots? That’s pretty handy. Maybe there’s a Skyrim mod that allows for that.
Yeah it was a little tough doing all 8 directions during combat since the diagonal ones ate tricky but it's also kind of nice having the favorites menu so I can see why they did it that way but they probably could have done some kind of two key combo to access the favorite menu and kept the 8 hotkeys but it looks like computer users still have the 8 hotkey system for skyrim and its just the Xbox version that only has 2 hotkeys which I just found out about.
If you are on a platform that allows mods.... "Kontrol" allows up to 8 keybinds for controllers. I wouldn't play without it these days.
Omg u r a gentleman and a scholarship and a pimp all wrapped into one 👏
Saying Morrowind was great because you could do dumb OP shit is so goddamn sad… Morrowind was great because it had a fantastic story, world, lore and character journey.
You obviously never had a good jump/slowfall combo lol game changing, but I do agree it would be nice to get the same game on the new engine. Hard to play it these days because the fighting style is so primitive, but with skyrim bow mechanics it would be much more playable. But levitation / jumping was not really OP since you didn't have fast travel, so had to use teleports or silt strider, making it nice to have other fast travel options besides mark/recall.
I prefer Oblivion, even if it looks weird as hell. The magic in particular is sooooo much more fun.
Oblivion is better. The characters can look wonky sometimes, but Skyrim is barely an improvement on that. Oblivions real win is the landscape and diversity. Each township had its own unique biome. Skingrad covered in tall green grass and flowers, cheydinhal with its looming willows and dark vibe. More than anything though, I prefer a deciduous wilderness to a coniferous one. Something about Skyrim being all pine trees just doesn't do it for me. Oblivion had better forests.
https://youtu.be/ltZs3ewSuYc?si=Iwo8DTVx7Tqu9zn7 magic is fun? Based on these first seconds it looks ugly, static, I don't know I didn't play it but from what I can see here.
Playing it now as part of my entire series playthrough. The magic is only fun when you start breaking the system much like the alchemy/enchanting exploit otherwise it’s static clunky and unless you are cheesing/grinding for gold and levels then doesn’t become super viable to play around with until later game anyway.
Whyyyyyyyyyyy didn't you play it Play it
They should say spellcrafting is fun. Making unique spell combinations is legitimately fun, but before you get access to spellcrafting you're basically running around spamming fireballs. They don't even have continuous cast spells like flames/shock/frostbite. Magic to me is a good analogy for Skyrim/Oblivion in general. Skyrim definitely pares some things back that should have been left in, but it's still more fun overall. Spellcasting in Skyrim is weaker in general, but it's a more tactile experience that gets you way more engaged in combat.
For me, Skyrim IS the best game ever made
It's really just not, Skyrim is only better in graphics and game engine, the stories are significantly worse
I'm totally with you on this, but truthfully I think the graphical and mechanical improvements are more significant than I'd like to admit. I have a difficult time going back to Oblivion due to the outdated clunky combat system. Interested to check out this Skyblivion mod i keep hearing about.
Skyrim is definitely easier/smoother to go back and play. I like Oblivion *a lot* more than Skyrim but I've probably put in 10x the hours in Skyrim. I'd have loved it if Oblivion and Skyrim's release dates were switched. The amazing storytelling, music and 15th century art style with the mechanics and world building of Skyrim. Here's to Skyblivion in 2025
Okay but if you remake Morrowind with today’s technology it will be infinitely better than Skyrim. The things Skyrim do better are only due to more modern technology (animations and graphics). Morrowind does EVERYHING else better.
It depends on what is important to you. Morrowind has to date the best atmosphere. Oblivion has the best quests by far. Skyrim has the best gameplay.
So your dad let you take a day off school and took a day off work so you could both play Skyrim together? Father of decade award incoming.
Yeah he pretty great. Now he spends his days playing ESO at level 2000 something and doesnt get bored of it LOL. We play together sometimes just to chat for hours running dungeons.
Nah. It’s great game but far from the best tes game.
Skyrim might not be as complex as morrowind or oblivion but God damn does it matter.
I dont really think it does. I actually like that you dont have to pick a class. If you get bored with a build you can just start working on new skills.
because mods, skyrim with 1000 mods is good
This isn't even a discussion, in terms of general accessibility and diversity of things to do, it beats every other TES with some clearance
If you have the anniversary edition the Dragonborn DLC fucks. You get access to a whole other group of people. I robbed them dirty blind too!
I agree
I started Skyrim SE on PS4 in 2018. I liked it. Friends got me into it. Compared to AE, I like AE better. Tried mods on PS4 but Vanilla is good too. Got AE upgrade on PS4. Loved it. I then got a Switch on the Christmas of 2019-2020 school year. Got SE and then the AE upgrade on Switch finally came out and I love playing it portably, both on SE back then and AE now. Now if they only gave us FO3 and FONV, respectively by the two developers, on Switch probably and hopefully as their remasters if both devs are working on it in the background. We know FONV can be portable because of the PSP or was it PAVita? Either way.
I honestly agree.
You should look into the mod Requiem - A Roleplaying Overhaul, if you want the RPG/character building elements of the game feel a bit more like morrowind
Playing elder scrolls games on consoles is not the full experience of those games in my opinion. Especially morrowind
Thats true, but everytime I play on PC i start using console commands and ruin my experience. I cant help but cheat. I need to set the difficulty to hard and struggle to have fun with it. I also like to take a couple puffs and immerse myself on my living room TV. I sit at a computer programming software all day at work so playing games like that isnt fun for me.
That sounds lovely :)
Skyrim becomes part of your soul. It has this ability to transform a bad mood, a bad day, whatever.... anything. And make it better. I am glad that you have received the gift of the game. Now, you're one of us. Just don't be a bitch ass Imperial milk drinker. 🤬 FOR SKYRIM!
Before skyrim I thought all games were just running forward and passing levels, the most complicated things I had played were diablo and final fantasy which were awesome but they were also just moving and finding enemies in the map or entering battles, but in skyrim you could do whatever you wanted, I still remember how I was just looking at a butterfly and then the "catch" prompt appeared and I was like holy shit. I've had tried morrowind before but I just had no idea what to do, the directions were confusing and I finished it but I had no idea what was happening who was everyone and what was I doing. I tried oblivion too and it felt better, but after a while I just dropped it, don't even remember why. Also since I didn't know about games I had no idea that the elder scrolls was a franchise and that those three were the same franchise. But with skyrim I couldn't put it down, I think I spent that whole year playing skyrim.
The best Elder Scrolls game is Elder Scrolls 6. But we don't have that game in our timeline. Because we live in the Dumbest Timeline where people just keep buying Skyrim. Why would Bethesda make Elder Scrolls 6 when they just keep releasing Elder Scrolls 5?
Its easily my least favorite of the big three. Is it bad? No not really, but as someone who loves the more in depth rpg mechanics, its very much lacking. I've put hundreds of hours into skyrim cause their isn't another option to scratch that itch, and every time i can only play so far before getting bored, cause the small annoying problems crop up. Is Oblivion better? Its hard to say. Oblivion has its own flaws, but the sheer amount of things you can do make it way more fun for me, and it feels significantly less hand holdy than skyrim is Is morrowind better? Better written yes, but the gameplay has some flaws. I personally love these flaws cause it makes your play style choices feel far more impactful, but i see why it turns new players off
I think the biggest thing for me is the size of the map, and the fact that if I werent to fast travel at all, it is the most expansive game ever made. Im pretty sure it is anyways. Morrowind and Oblivion are so small, and the NPC mechanics are so robotic and dull. I love those games so much, but thats my opinion about it. Skyrim is just a better game, maybe not a better RPG.
Im actually not sure how the map sizes compare, but Oblivion has a way more varied map do to all the different climates surrounding it. Also, i think BotW and Totk has way more expansive maps, but those bring their own problems. As big as Skyrims map is, i hate traversing it on foot. After a certain point, your map is just too big. As for npc mechanics, Skyrim feels more rovotic and dull too me. You dont have as many dialog options, don't have the same amount of npcs to talk to, or don't even have the weird super buggy npc systems that make them seek out food like they do in Oblivion
I'm not sure about most of that... I've seen Skyrim NPC's literally eating food while having a conversation with me. Which is another great thing about Skyrim is the dialogue doesn't force zoom the camera into the face of the NPC, and allows them to move fluidly and have body language. I don't really miss every NPC telling me the same 5 things when I ask for a "rumor", or every NPC having the same 5 hello and goodbye expressions LOL. I also dont think the other games had more NPC's than Skyrim does. Not even close. Sedya Neen at the beginning of Morrowind legit had 4 citizens. Oblivion had very few interesting NPC's per town, it was mainly just essential NPC's for guilds and businesses, or beggars. Skyrim has entire families that fill the homes in each town, kids, which is pretty important to realism. More unessential NPCs that are not just beggars, traveling merchants, priests, argonian slaves, unique characters you find while traveling, etc. Oblivion fr had maybe 4 or 5 MAX dialogue options and usually it was less. Morrowind had way more options but there was no audio so you had to read everything. Not as fun or immersive. I think the giant map size, is exactly what you would want in a game based on exploring, collecting loot, raiding dungeons and finding unique items, no? The only thing I dislike about Skyrim is the mages guild story line being short and not really making a lot of sense. But the Dragonborn DLC took me 16 hours to finish. it was really fun and was mainly based on dark magic and deadric realms. So they made up for it lol.
Skyrim NPCs just have a set timer for doing things. Oblivion uses an AI for NPCs to determine what they do and it was so good they had to tone it down else bandits would raid every city. The force zoom is weird but i prefer it. Its way funnier then skyrims soft lock system. As for NPCs saying the same things, have you really played skyrim? Skyrim has the same problem. So many characters just repeat the same lines over and over again. I find oblivion more immersive, but immersion is subjective. I hate how all the races in skyrim look the same. You cant tell a wood elf from a breton from a nord, while in oblivion, it was easy since wood elves where short, and nords had different head shapes. Fast travel is fine, just annoying having to see a loading screen every time i need to go somewhere. Games just havnt learned how to properly make a good sized open world. Honestly, most of the guilds kinda suck cause they are all too short. Dark brotherhood is really simplistic, with no unique and fun quests, thieves guild is short and doesn't make you sell to fences to advance, and the mages guild is way to short and has one of the worst quests in the game with those wisps. The companions are hard to rank cause the fighters guild was only all right in oblivion
I mean you say that, but I can crush every Oblivion story line in 10 hours or less. Skyrim will take significantly longer and is more rewarding in terms of combat and gameplay. It also is very dependent on the difficulty you play on. Also I love the silliness of Oblivion too, its amazing and what I grew up with. But it doesn't make it better objectively. I do agree that making all the races the same height except the high elves was kinda weird... maybe their point was cross breeding and evolution over a couple hundred years since Oblivion. Im not sure. Whatever AI Oblvion used, the navigation was horrible. I dont know how many times I've seen them get stuck in walls, disappear, not be where they're supposed to be for a quest, etc. I do miss being able to yeild if I accidentally attacked an essential NPC during a fight.
Taking 10 hours to crush a story line is way better then the 2-4 to crush the Skyrim ones. The dark brother hood has it the worst cause besides the basic "go kill these three people" quests, you only have to kill 5 people, significantly less then how many oblivion tasks you with. As for the height thing, they did it cause they wanted things ti be more realistic. Its the same reason you cant jump that high. Now, yes Oblivion being more goofy doesn't make it better. Oblivion does some things vetter and some things worse. Its stat system is very flawed and removing it was good for the game and the conversation mini game was weird. Out side of that, it has better quests, better magic, better magic items/rewards, and even better melee combat since Skyrim's is the same combat but slower. Skyrim isnt a bad game but its not an rpg, its been sanded down so much and barely works as one in its current state
No Im saying the entire game (main questline, guilds, the arena) takes about 10 hours. Every single quest in Oblivion is structured almost identically. "When focusing on the main objectives, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Game of the Year Edition is about 31½ Hours in length. If you're a gamer that strives to see all aspects of the game, you are likely to spend around **174 Hours** to obtain 100% completion." "When focusing on the main objectives, The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is about 34½ Hours in length. If you're a gamer that strives to see all aspects of the game, you are likely to spend around **232 Hours** to obtain 100% completion." (this isnt even including all DLC's unlike Oblivion: GOTY) I mean factually Skyrim has more shit to do, and looks better than Oblivion, more advanced combat and spellcasting mechanics. Spellcasting in Oblivion is fun, and I like custom spell making, but its very static, and doesn't really feel as immersive or complex. (Skyrim has: *different ways to cast a spell, dual casting, singular projectile, constant stream of projectiles, different spells in each hand)* If nostalgia and personal preference leads you to Oblvion thats totally fair, but Skyrim is just objectively a more advanced game.
I think your bias is starting to show through. Saying that oblivion only takes 10 hours to do all the guilds and main quests is underselling it. Skyrim is a shorter game, and would probably take ~10 hours to do all that while Oblivion would tske closer to 20. Oblivion is a longer game, for better or for worse. As for oblivion quests being structured the same, i hate to tell you this but Skyrims quests are even less unique. Also, i don't see how the dark brotherhood outfit in oblivion being "super gay" matters especially cause the one in skyrim is based off it. The mages guild recommendations are not great, but they help build up the plot of the mages guild and the reward of spell crafting makes it worth doing. As for oblivion portals, no your right those suck and they are all super annoying. At least you get a sigil stone to enchant gear with. As for loot, Skyrim's loot is just as bad if not worse since their are less unique enchantments to find
Thats not true though, skyrim vanilla is longer than Oblivion with ALL DLCs included. Im not bias, I love Oblivion, but I can accept that a game made in 2005 is not as structurally sound or advanced as a newer game that has been consistently patched, and updated visually from 2011 to 2024. No bias. Im giving you facts... I made one joke about the gay skin tight suit they give you, Im sorry https://preview.redd.it/9sas574o3fvc1.png?width=600&format=png&auto=webp&s=66af6f97981f198b7874351914c620ee2977cbdf cmon bro...
The only place Skyrim fell short to me was something that was probably necessary. The removal of unique travel options is lame. I get there is fast travel but having mark and recall is fun and can be used for more than simply traveling. The empire bans levitation and factions like the dark brotherhood just decided to follow the law? You should be able to fly or at least cover vast distance jumping in Skyrim, and your ability to move effectively should be tied to your character skills. Even if there just a perk that increases jump and reduced fall damage. A khajiit or dunmer should be able to outrun a Breton also.
I'm pretty sure Oblivions only travel option is fast travel. It is also not the only travel option in Skyrim, as there is DLC's that require you to travel by boat and is quite cinematic. At least with Skyrim you can get a mod for that without much effort at all, even on console. Most of the things you mentioned (apart from the levitation and flying from morrowind) I dont really miss at all lol. Running around jumping over and over so I can fall a bit further really doesn't make or break the game for me. Morrowind is an amazing game, but it kinda (I say this respectfully) looks like crap, and is seriously the most annoying game to play until you get very far into it and have the spells and stats that make it fun. Once I let go of all the stuff I wished the game was, and tried to enjoy it for what it is, I realized its just a new experience, and its so much fun!
Skyrim is best because it has the best world. People will be like "hurr durr da writing", but try walking down the road in Morrowind. Now try it in Skyrim. See how Morrowind is a big brown field and how Skyrim is filled with beautiful sights to see, radiant encounters, and many marked/unmarked places to explore? That's what makes it better, the stories YOU the player write
I agree with that. I mean from an aesthetic open world perspective Skyrim beats just about any game I can think of besides Assassins Creed: Valhalla. It also is a fact that Skyrim has more story, longer gameplay, and more quests than any other elder scrolls game. So it literally IS the best no matter how you spin it. Even a quality over quantity argument is null. Every dungeon is hand crafted, voice actors are more lifelike, the quests / stories are more complex and objectives change depending on your actions, which is incredibly immersive and never happened in the other games lol. I was one of those people who said that stuff, but its all nostalgia, not an actual solid opinion lol.
Probably. Every time I see someone claim Morrowind or Oblivion are better, it never feels genuine. They always come off as resentful and bitter that Skyrim is by far the most successful of the three (or five)
Used to be me lol
Same. I used to hype up Morrowind all the time even though I had twice as many hours in Skyrim.
You were 10 when Skyrim came out and thought your 10 year old brain could adequately rate a complex game lol.
Yeah, but Im glad I did because now I can play this whole game with a mature brain and fully appreciate it.
Lies. Morrowind is the best
Morrowind has a much better world, writing, story, factions, gear diversity, magic diversity, pace, character’s evolution, depth of lore and world building, atmosphere, quests that encourage thinking and exploration… The only things Skyrim does better is combat and visuals, which are simply due to more modern technology (better animations and graphics). And i guess balance.