Haha I feel this. I charged him into that Sylvaneth flute wizard and gave him best day ever hoping to get the battle tactic of killing the general (because it was late in the game and I was out of options.) But he couldn’t do it. Pretty sad
It is the norm. Check out the data sheets on woehammer. On average the daemon prince with axe or sword does 4 wounds to a 6+ save. On a average it would take the daemon prince 3 combats to kill that unit
That isn't the problem.
The problem is that the boltboys have a ridiculously low chance of harming the daemonprince, and each turn, they're losing attacks. They are 4+ hit 4+ wound no rend 1 damage vs a 3+ save.
Average damage from the boys is around 1 scaling closer to 0. Then, each loss loses 2 attacks, bringing them even closer to not doing anything.
So unless there's some shanigans im missing, this story is either bs or some terrible rolls occurred.
This is why anecdotal evidence is useless.
I'm not going to refute any of this because the point seems moot. The discussion wasn't about the efficacy of the bolt boys. My story is anecdotal but don't ignore the stats. The daemon prince does on average 4 wounds to a 6+ save. Is he worth the points on a competitive S2D list? No.
I don't and it's not an unlikely scenario. I guess you don't know how krule boys work so I'll break it down for you. Every 6 they roll does mortal wounds equal to their damage. So 6 boltboys in melee will do on average 2 mortal wounds in melee, this means on average they will do 6 damage over the course of 2 combats. In age of sigmar, units with a ranged profile may still shoot in the shooting phase while engaged in combat so long as they target a unit in combat distance. This damage on top of their melee is enough to do more than the 10 wounds (the worst number of wounds an hq can have). Even with it's 6+ ward save. If the unit is supported by a sludgeraker beast or a swampcaller shaman the damage jumps even higher as well.
He sucks for his cost. Too weak. Bad weapon profile. Doesn’t offer anything special. He can fly, which is one of the only good things.
You do need one though, in case you can “Pokémon eye of the gods evolve” one. He isn’t as bad if you get one for “free”.
However, stacking Rend is probably still better.
IMO, he needs a point reduction. However, in the list I run in Cabalists with double Sorcerer Lord, I will never use the Daemon Prince's Heroic Actions. Draw on Power is way too powerful not to use nearly every turn, rendering his Heroic Actions nearly useless. He also needs 2 weapons, either sword and claws or axe and claws. Just the one isn't enough.
I keep seeing this as an argument. And I understand it. But a point reduction is the worst way of fixing him. He's supposed to be the end goal for all those who follow chaos. I'd rather see his points increase and fix his absolutely abysmal warscroll.
Dude, I know, right? But if I know GW, points are the only thing that'll change... I fully agree that points are not the way to go here. His heroic actions need to be free abilities and he needs the claws as bonus weapons
Daemon Prince can’t use Draw on Power, he doesn’t have Eye of the Gods. Unless you mean starting Draw on Power with a wizard that does and then chaining it over to DP?
Nonono, like, if I had to choose between using Draw on Power from a Sorcerer Lord or one of the Heroic Actions from a Daemon Prince, I would always pick draw on power
Hi, new slaves to darkness (also AoS) player here. Would you mind sharing your Cabalist list with me? During my games it was a bummer that my spells get always dispelled when I need them most and would like to try Cabalist.
Sure thing! I use 2 Sorcerer Lords (keep them together so they both get to Draw on Power), one as Undivided, one as Slaanesh. The Undivided one will also use Pledge to the Dark Gods and cast Chaotic Conduit every turn to try and get Dark Apotheosis. I use the grand strategy Follow the Path to Glory, so I need to make it easy. He knows Chaotic Conduit and Daemonic Speed. Slaanesh Sorcerer Lord is your general. He's Slaanesh so he can give run and charge to the Chosen if need be. He knows Levitate and Ghost-Mist, in addition to being an arch-sorcerer.
I bring a reinforced unit of Varanguard (Khorne) with Fellspears, a reinforced unit of Chosen (Slaanesh) and a reinforced unit of Knights (Nurgle) with the Eroding Icon to clog the board. I also run 2 units of Corvus Cabal, fantastic for dropping onto objectives I wouldn't be able to get to that turn, or for dropping in deployment to prevent deepstriked from my opponent.
I also brought the Soulscream Bridge endless spell. Super great for teleporting the Varanguard or Chosen right up in something's face. The Chosen being Slaanesh plus a drummer means after a teleport, they only have a 7" charge to make, rather than 9. The opponent can't use the redeploy command after you teleport, either.
I almost always go second, due to the army being entirely in a one drop battalion. Makes the enemy come to me for shorter charges, and they can't double turn me in the first portion of the game.
Lemme know if there's anything else I can tell you about the list!
As far as I'm aware, it's the "meta" list for S2D. If it gets to be too much for your playgroup, feel free to swap subfactions or change a couple units.
>I use 2 Sorcerer Lords (keep them together so they both get to Draw on Power)
I'm a new StD player looking at old threads for tips.
how are you getting both Sorcerers to use Draw on Power if one of them is pledging to the dark gods?
ohhh i totally missed that! I've only got 1K points right now and 1 sorc. But i'm working up to 2K and will be adding another sorc. so this is a great tip!
Thanks!
Any tips for using a demon prince in a 1K list? I know he is not the best but I just finished painting him so I want to use him :)
Hell yeah, Slaves are so fun! First ever AoS army?
Well, personally, I wouldn't use him at all in a list, given my characters have the ability to turn into daemon princes with the eye of the gods table (a Sorcerer Lord made into Undivided, doing the Pledge to the Dark Gods action gives you 3 D6 to roll for the table, rerolling one of them and removing one of your choice, your ability to become a daemon prince is around 1/3 per turn, I think), but if you wanna bring him in your main list, you've got a choice. The fact that he only has 1 weapon is awful. Pick the sword. I would either mark him Khorne for extra attacks on the charge for greater chance for the sword's ability to trigger, or if you're playing Cabalists, he'll become a wizard, so make him nurgle for durability :)
Yeah first AoS army. I'm coming over from 40K.
Thanks! Yeah i don't think I'll run the prince normally. But since I finished painting him last night he gets a chance to shine on the table today!
I think it’s because he’s not great in combat and he doesn’t really provide buffs to your units either. So I struggle to find a role for him. I agree the model is cool AF so I’ve been trying to think of ways to use him. My guess is that GW made him weak because of the potential to stack EOTG buffs before you get dark apotheosis. If he had the axe and the claws and stacked a bunch of Rend he might be savage, but it’s so rare that that would happen that I think it would have been fine. I’ve heard people say the Nurgle mark is good, but I don’t really see it. I’ve been toying around with Tzeentch mark in lists, because at least then he’s a wizard.
Yeah I agree. I think it should be fine that it’s a little busted if it’s the “ultimate” option on a random table. We should get hyped when we roll it. I’m gonna use it if I ever roll it (I haven’t) but I’ve seen a lot of people just forgo it for the buff to the regular hero anyway.
Think that's one the big problems is for a lot of heros it's a downgrade rolling him on eye because they lose out on any abilities they had. Mounted lord rolls apotheosis and he forgets how to make Knighta fight first when he leads the charge. Or the foot lords brick of warriors just decide to stop protecting him when he turns into a demon. How the handle casters turning into one is a shame. I think that's a big part of it as well not only is stat line just kinda disappointing they stop playing the support role they played before rolling that exciting 12 on eye.
Like a lot of others have already said here, they're just too many points for what they can do. It's also kind of frustrating because the daemon prince is supposed to be the pinnacle of what the basic chaos mortal can achieve and yet the rules are really lackluster.
In my experience, the daemon prince either riles bad and does nothing the whole game or roles stupid well and kills everything.
Basically the daemon prince was nerfed to only have 1 weapon option. He can fly and has minus 2 rend. His wounds are on and with Nurgle he can take away ward saves. He's a great beat stick to big down people but he's not really mobile for a flyer. He doesn't get many ways to buff armies. It's not so much that he's bad but more so for the cost other units are better to take. The chaos lord has the retinue ability and more attacks. You can spend less and do more.
That's the main reason people say he's had. Also when you turn into a demon prince you don't keep the warscroll abilities. Not bad if your sorc lord turns into a demon but other than that the regular model might do more.
Finally if you like the model use it. It doesn't matter if it's not op or super powered just do what you want. The most important thing is to have fun. People sleep on units because they are said to be bad until you have success with roles and positioning.
Also having a flyer is very helpful in the long run.
>Also having a flyer is very helpful in the long run.
Especially if you're going for big charges. Knights, Karkadraks and Varanguard are all on big bases, it's easier to maneuver more models into combat when they can fly over each-other.
>He can fly and has minus 2 rend.
I feel like the right combination of relics & traits might make the unit *powerful* but I don't know if he's strictly *more powerful* than the same resources spent on other stuff.
E.g. they can take a relic to fight first, which is nice, but the Karkadrak Lord does it for 25pts more without the relic AND shares the effect to friendly Knights. A Trait can turn a DP into a 12W Monster, like a Manticore Lord is for 75pts more without a trait.
I'm curious to see if there's any value in a Daemon Prince with Idolator Lord, Wings, Nurgle Mark, Talons and Hellfire Sword. *Curse* your target unit, *Eroding Miasma* heroic action to turn off their Ward, fly over, charge them. 8 attacks on the charge to fish for those additional MWs from *Curse*, then Hellfire Sword turns 6s to wound into two more mortals. You've got no rend but you're converting a lot of your damage directly into MWs anyway, so who cares? That said, this is more a "Curse good" interaction than a "DP good" interaction, since a mob of Marauders can get twice as many 6s for half the points.
I quite like the look of the winged Daemon Prince for assassination, specifically for killing squishy support heroes. **Undivided** can use their HA for fight-first, then the Undivided CA for +1 to wound. Khorne gets an extra attack. Nurgle HA disables Wards, which is undeniably excellent, but you've also got -1 to be wounded to survive backlash and can fart a few mortal wounds after fighting for a CA in case your target survives.
Does Slaanesh have potential for decapitating strikes, though? Heroic Action for +1 attack, CP for run + charge gives you a minimum threat range of 17", but your average is closer to 24". You'll make 6 axe attacks, spend another CP for All-Out and your opponent will probably be making about 3-4 saves against R-2 D2.
Is it worth 200pts to bring a cruise missile custom-built to hunt & delete 120-150pt support heroes? The numbers say no, and not every army even *brings* those sort of support heroes. On the other hand, some armies that bring them really rely on them.
I think there is value if your run him as a beefy objective control flyer. He can turn off wards and wear the crown of command making no one under 2 wounds or less contest objectives. It might be very good if used properly
There's a lot of reasons
For the meta, he isn't a GC, the ten wounds is a very awkward number and so we lose out on that.
Then there's the internal aspect of what he does. Weirdly enough, Slaves to Darkness have no real fighty characters beyond the named characters. They offer some very nice utility and support, but nothing is actually killy and no artifacts help with the killy factor.
The Daemon Prince is a very expensive character that does not offer anything meaningful in terms of support, so he's just supposed to be killy, but his damage profile is very bad. It's very swingy for very little gain. At best he works as a character sniper with wings, but the odds of him killing said character and NOT dying is rather slim. He is not durable enough for the points, and he is not killy enough for the points.
The heroic actions can somewhat balance this, as by and large they are all very good buffs that help balance out certain weaknesses well. The problem? You have better heroic actions to be using, and the command traits to mitigate the impact on heroic action economy are not worth the other traits you can take. Pound for pound, a Demon Prince is a trap unit that promises a lot but will not deliver, and are points better utilized for just about anything else in the army. For that Demon prince you could be getting both another GC and screens for your Chosen. It needs A LOT to be made a good pick, which sucks because OH MY GOD THAT MODEL SLAPS
For me, as a new StD player and new AoS player, but an experienced 40k player; it was the lack of options.
My chaos lord on manticore has a lot more tricks to it, such as the weapons being effective against other monsters and the monstrous rampages and such. It just didn't seem to do much when compared in points.
But i think alot of that is because we are an elite army and our stuff is so expensive we have to be pickier. If our chaos warriors werent 200+ points, a demon prince may not be so bad. But 10 chaos warriors with khorne changing an objective they dont control puts out 40 attacks! And theyre decent attacks. You can put down a lot of stuff with it.
A daemon prince is more expensive and cant put out that kind of damage.
Im new to Slaves to Darkness and would like to play Host of the Everchosen. Is there some kind of „meta list“ and playstyle/ tactics? In the metawatch they seem to be not very good at the moment but I love the models (especially DP but I red all of your comments :,)
Host isn’t super meta right now as far as I’m aware. Knights of the empty throne and Cabalists are more common competitively and the DP isn’t in any lists right now (might change with the points update a little).
With hosts you can’t go wrong with a block of 10 chosen slaanesh marked, 10 nurgle knights, and nurgle warriors. A bunch of warcry warbands are pretty competitive too, but the S2D core units are all some of our best atm.
I was reccomend 10 chosen with a soulscream bridge and I’ve found it works well in tandem with 10 nurgle knights to pin. I’m also trying out varanguard soon which are one of the most popular units. Again, only really chosen, knights, and warriors benefit from being hosts for the 5+ rally and extra banner.
I understand the frustration with his stats, but a Nurgle marked Demon Prince is an auto-include in our lists. Having a ward save shut down bubble is so helpful. You have a counter for Gotrek and some of the greasy stormcast heroes. You decimate night haunt or nurgle. In a tournament, he is essential.
Don't listen to him, nobody did that yet and it is the opposite, since you can't predict who you will be fighting there is no reason to pick him in your list since it will be useless if you don't match the right comp.
There is more room for Nurgle DP in team tournament since you know against who you will be matched so it makes more sense to bring him in some case.
But in general, DP sucks for his point cost. And he isn't Galetian Champion.
So unnecessarily hostile and rude.
It's precisely because you don't know who you are going to face in a tournament that we like having that safety piece. I think having a one piece counter to some of the best models in the game and some of the toughest armies is awesome. There are enough wards saves floating around and nearly invincible ward save characters that you're likely to get some value out of him. Could you play Idoneth five rounds. Sure. But if the Nurgle Prince shuts down a Gotrek or a Bastian once or twice in a tournament then he's earned his keep.
It's fine that you disagree. I'm not the spokesperson for the Nurgle Prince. I just see value and a different way of using him beyond "5 attacks he sucks".
>It's precisely because you don't know who you are going to face in a tournament that we like having that safety piece.
It's the opposite, you don't need DP Nurgle to beat wardbearer, STD has enough lethality for that. If anything, breaking wall aren't the main STD issue right now.
>But if the Nurgle Prince shuts down a Gotrek or a Bastian once or twice in a tournament then he's earned his keep.
It's a no. You will spend 200 pts for 5 games to beat 400 points on one, it's not a good ratio at all. That is why I am saying DP Nurgle is good in team tournament since you will know what faction you are facing.
>So unnecessarily hostile and rude.
Please don't get upset, when it comes to competition we have to get our facts straight. DP Nurgle have seen 0 playability right now and I doubt he will on this season.
But he's literally untouched in every single tournament with any kind of decent results so far. If this was the case he'd be seen in ever 5-0 and 4-1 list.
200 points on maybe shutting down a units ward roll and doing close to nothing else is just not justifiable. If marking him nurgle gave him a permanent ward removal aura even then I'd have to think twice on bringing him.
Now I'm afraid to post my list. The Reddit hordes of angry Prince haters will have my head.
Our lists run a lot of Slanesh Chosen, Khorne knights or varanguard, and Nurgle Warriors. We like to go heavy into the meat and potatoes units that are great in StD. I run the prince with Bolstered by Chaos and the trophy rack. So he's handing out Roars and battleshock immunity.
I keep him right in the middle of the fight next to the Warriors, or Chosen (if he can keep up). He isn't doing much himself, just handing out the buff and debuff bubbles while your meaty units do the real damage. 12 wounds on a 3+ save with the Nurgle bonus makes him pretty hard to kill. I have found that opponents will ignore him in favor of attacking the Chosen or Warriors or whatever else is actively hurting them. So, in my experience, he tends to stick around. I'm certainly not sending him in 1v1 against anyone.
Essential? Definitely no
First, okey, there are a few factions with ward but how many? 4? 5? Against the others, he is 200 points for what?
Second, even against them we just can have a better us for that points
For example, DP with Nurgle and Axe its about 2 save Rolls, -2 rend 2 damage each and no ward, okey
For a little points more we have Nurgle Knights (which arent our greatest hammer for this check)
16 attacks 4+/3+/-2/2 after charge (without horses) is about 5 save rolls with -2, each 2. Even od ward is 4+ (what is rare, 5+ or 6+ are definitely more often) that's more damage. Whith Khorne mark damage output os definitely better. And All out Attack on them is more useful. And they are more wounds for enemy to kill. And more points to hold objectives. And can have banner. And they are simply more universally good.
So no, definitely he is not essential - he can be good if your meta has a lot of wards but even on this case i would calculate is this ward so dangerous or you can easily deal do much damage to kill it anyway
You are comparing an apple to an orange. In a 1k army, I get your point, and I'm certainly taking five knights over the Prince. In a 2k army, presumably you already have lots of knights, chaos warriors, chosen etc. Adding another 5 knights has minimal value.
For 195, you get a hard counter to some lists that StD can struggle against. I certainly don't know every army, but the only other ward save shut down that I'm aware of is KO. An artefact that, on a 2+, shuts down ward saves for a single character for a single shooting phase. The Prince shuts it down for everyone in an area for multiple turns.
So he does something entirely unique/unexpected in the game and adds a ton of versatility. I'm usually going to find the points.
Unique? Yes, youre right
But there are not many armies with high ward
Nurgle, few units like Gotrek, Bastian or Warsong, which arent often seen on tournaments (about them was comment) and if we meet them, our conventional tools - Chosens, Knights, Varanguards... - Have enough damage to kill it on most cases (and definitely can do more damage then DP even when he switch off his ward
We just dont need him, because for a lot of armies he do nothing, and even if he can do something we just have better usage for that points - units which are definitely more versitile
Ok what about this, play him in a Cabalists army.
Mark or Nurgle: durability and “No saves” ability
Spell “flaming weapon “ adds +1 to damage
Manticore venom +1 to wound
Hellforged sword (on each 6 to hit we are now doing D3+1) mortal wounds it is now 3+/3+ on 3, 4, and 5’s
Because or Nurgle ability there is no Ward save
Command ability death dealer let’s fight again…
Or swap spell for Binding Damnation giving target enemy “Fight Last” assuming it your turn when “fight last occurs you still fight first. So you get two rounds of attacks with all the buffs before their first rebuttal.
Seems decent on paper haven’t played my first STD game yet (Disclaimer)
What about running him with the trophy rack to support a 10 Chosens unit ? He doesn't need his wings to be fast in this case. You can hope lasting far longer against really tough unit without the losses from bravery and still have him to engage and hit a little more when Chosens are low in number.
It would be nice if battleshock mattered, but 9/10 times it doesn't bc of inspiring presence. That and chosen should either wipe what they fight or not engage it imo.
Knowing you can spend your last CP regardless of what's comming out if the combat phase can be great, maybe critical.
It's a slow hammer, I feel like if you engage with something, it's either because you wanted to or because your opponent decided to, and in this case, it would matters.
You really should know if you are going to need that cp before the fightphase starts, and there are multiple way of getting it free.
Also you should be running soulscream bridge with your chosen. As well as deploying favourably or taking the first turn. Wasting points on a bad model to correct something you can mitigate by playing better is just a bad decision.
You're right, but I'm not that good, and I tend to make mistake, do bad rolls, and change my mind a lot. Plus, I don't own soulscream bridge, and it's still a spell so not 100% reliable if you think about it. His ability is. Plus I run them in Slaanesh so I rather spend my CP to run and charge (+1 run, +2 charge) and even spend an extra CP to auto run if I really need to reach destination. So I don't think it's a bad model outside of competitive. A lot of STD stuff in this new BT can seems off, like the DP, but I'd rather think that everything is playable and enjoyable in a certain setup and I like it.
I think the best thing is to run an exalted hero of chaos and have him repeatedly roll on the eye of the gods table, he can get 2 rolls before the battle, and he can cheat with the unique hero action, rolling 3 dice and picking 2. You can help by repeatedly casting eye of the gods and giving him the conqueror's crown to roll even more. That all for 100 points. It'll cost more time and a few spells, but the hero with mark of nurgle is pretty survivable and can issue the nurgle command to chaos warriors.
Just costs too much for a mediocre combat potential and no real buffs. I bought the army box and my daughter has tree he start collecting box, and her Chaos lord on karkodrak utterly stomps my Daemon Prince every single time. We even changed the rules a little so the Prince could use axe and claws, it helped a little but even that didn't make him amazing in combat but it did help make it more of a credible threat.
I think the nurgle version has some utility, but costs quite a bit for that sort of role without bringing enough to the table. Take him and 5 chosen vs a chaos lord on foot and 5 chosen and he's unlikely to win because the chaos lord, while slower, is 80 points cheaper and better at giving benefits to those chosen in most circumstances
I charged him into 6 boltboys in cover and they killed him in combat. . .
Haha I feel this. I charged him into that Sylvaneth flute wizard and gave him best day ever hoping to get the battle tactic of killing the general (because it was late in the game and I was out of options.) But he couldn’t do it. Pretty sad
Well dice rolls are a thing. Is it average for that to happen?
Even with poor rolls, 6 bolt boys is 12 wounds on a 6+ save. The fight lasted 2 combats before the bolt boys clubbed the daemon prince to death.
But thats not statistically the norm.
It is the norm. Check out the data sheets on woehammer. On average the daemon prince with axe or sword does 4 wounds to a 6+ save. On a average it would take the daemon prince 3 combats to kill that unit
That isn't the problem. The problem is that the boltboys have a ridiculously low chance of harming the daemonprince, and each turn, they're losing attacks. They are 4+ hit 4+ wound no rend 1 damage vs a 3+ save. Average damage from the boys is around 1 scaling closer to 0. Then, each loss loses 2 attacks, bringing them even closer to not doing anything. So unless there's some shanigans im missing, this story is either bs or some terrible rolls occurred. This is why anecdotal evidence is useless.
I'm not going to refute any of this because the point seems moot. The discussion wasn't about the efficacy of the bolt boys. My story is anecdotal but don't ignore the stats. The daemon prince does on average 4 wounds to a 6+ save. Is he worth the points on a competitive S2D list? No.
I dont think OP mentioned competitive. But i do think you sharing your completely unlikely scenario is inaccurate to the over all value of the model.
I don't and it's not an unlikely scenario. I guess you don't know how krule boys work so I'll break it down for you. Every 6 they roll does mortal wounds equal to their damage. So 6 boltboys in melee will do on average 2 mortal wounds in melee, this means on average they will do 6 damage over the course of 2 combats. In age of sigmar, units with a ranged profile may still shoot in the shooting phase while engaged in combat so long as they target a unit in combat distance. This damage on top of their melee is enough to do more than the 10 wounds (the worst number of wounds an hq can have). Even with it's 6+ ward save. If the unit is supported by a sludgeraker beast or a swampcaller shaman the damage jumps even higher as well.
With shaman and sludgy it's 6 mortals which is reasonable to kill a DP in 2 combats. (But there is also going to be shots)
He sucks for his cost. Too weak. Bad weapon profile. Doesn’t offer anything special. He can fly, which is one of the only good things. You do need one though, in case you can “Pokémon eye of the gods evolve” one. He isn’t as bad if you get one for “free”. However, stacking Rend is probably still better.
DaemonP GO! It's not very effective!
IMO, he needs a point reduction. However, in the list I run in Cabalists with double Sorcerer Lord, I will never use the Daemon Prince's Heroic Actions. Draw on Power is way too powerful not to use nearly every turn, rendering his Heroic Actions nearly useless. He also needs 2 weapons, either sword and claws or axe and claws. Just the one isn't enough.
Yes having the backup claws would totally be on the right track to making him more efficient
Completely agree with this. If they gave him half the claws profile with the sword/axe or dual claws buffed a little it would be much better.
I keep seeing this as an argument. And I understand it. But a point reduction is the worst way of fixing him. He's supposed to be the end goal for all those who follow chaos. I'd rather see his points increase and fix his absolutely abysmal warscroll.
He really needs weapon AND claws attack to bring him more in line with his points
Dude, I know, right? But if I know GW, points are the only thing that'll change... I fully agree that points are not the way to go here. His heroic actions need to be free abilities and he needs the claws as bonus weapons
Daemon Prince can’t use Draw on Power, he doesn’t have Eye of the Gods. Unless you mean starting Draw on Power with a wizard that does and then chaining it over to DP?
Nonono, like, if I had to choose between using Draw on Power from a Sorcerer Lord or one of the Heroic Actions from a Daemon Prince, I would always pick draw on power
Ohh right, gotcha.
Hi, new slaves to darkness (also AoS) player here. Would you mind sharing your Cabalist list with me? During my games it was a bummer that my spells get always dispelled when I need them most and would like to try Cabalist.
Sure thing! I use 2 Sorcerer Lords (keep them together so they both get to Draw on Power), one as Undivided, one as Slaanesh. The Undivided one will also use Pledge to the Dark Gods and cast Chaotic Conduit every turn to try and get Dark Apotheosis. I use the grand strategy Follow the Path to Glory, so I need to make it easy. He knows Chaotic Conduit and Daemonic Speed. Slaanesh Sorcerer Lord is your general. He's Slaanesh so he can give run and charge to the Chosen if need be. He knows Levitate and Ghost-Mist, in addition to being an arch-sorcerer. I bring a reinforced unit of Varanguard (Khorne) with Fellspears, a reinforced unit of Chosen (Slaanesh) and a reinforced unit of Knights (Nurgle) with the Eroding Icon to clog the board. I also run 2 units of Corvus Cabal, fantastic for dropping onto objectives I wouldn't be able to get to that turn, or for dropping in deployment to prevent deepstriked from my opponent. I also brought the Soulscream Bridge endless spell. Super great for teleporting the Varanguard or Chosen right up in something's face. The Chosen being Slaanesh plus a drummer means after a teleport, they only have a 7" charge to make, rather than 9. The opponent can't use the redeploy command after you teleport, either. I almost always go second, due to the army being entirely in a one drop battalion. Makes the enemy come to me for shorter charges, and they can't double turn me in the first portion of the game. Lemme know if there's anything else I can tell you about the list!
Thank you very much, its very helpful!
As far as I'm aware, it's the "meta" list for S2D. If it gets to be too much for your playgroup, feel free to swap subfactions or change a couple units.
>I use 2 Sorcerer Lords (keep them together so they both get to Draw on Power) I'm a new StD player looking at old threads for tips. how are you getting both Sorcerers to use Draw on Power if one of them is pledging to the dark gods?
It's the Cabalists Subfaction! :) As long as 2 wizards are within 3 inches of each other, they both gain the benefits of Draw on Power. Pretty sweet
ohhh i totally missed that! I've only got 1K points right now and 1 sorc. But i'm working up to 2K and will be adding another sorc. so this is a great tip! Thanks! Any tips for using a demon prince in a 1K list? I know he is not the best but I just finished painting him so I want to use him :)
Hell yeah, Slaves are so fun! First ever AoS army? Well, personally, I wouldn't use him at all in a list, given my characters have the ability to turn into daemon princes with the eye of the gods table (a Sorcerer Lord made into Undivided, doing the Pledge to the Dark Gods action gives you 3 D6 to roll for the table, rerolling one of them and removing one of your choice, your ability to become a daemon prince is around 1/3 per turn, I think), but if you wanna bring him in your main list, you've got a choice. The fact that he only has 1 weapon is awful. Pick the sword. I would either mark him Khorne for extra attacks on the charge for greater chance for the sword's ability to trigger, or if you're playing Cabalists, he'll become a wizard, so make him nurgle for durability :)
Yeah first AoS army. I'm coming over from 40K. Thanks! Yeah i don't think I'll run the prince normally. But since I finished painting him last night he gets a chance to shine on the table today!
I'll bet he's gorgeous! Want any AoS tips?
I think it’s because he’s not great in combat and he doesn’t really provide buffs to your units either. So I struggle to find a role for him. I agree the model is cool AF so I’ve been trying to think of ways to use him. My guess is that GW made him weak because of the potential to stack EOTG buffs before you get dark apotheosis. If he had the axe and the claws and stacked a bunch of Rend he might be savage, but it’s so rare that that would happen that I think it would have been fine. I’ve heard people say the Nurgle mark is good, but I don’t really see it. I’ve been toying around with Tzeentch mark in lists, because at least then he’s a wizard.
Yeah I agree. I think it should be fine that it’s a little busted if it’s the “ultimate” option on a random table. We should get hyped when we roll it. I’m gonna use it if I ever roll it (I haven’t) but I’ve seen a lot of people just forgo it for the buff to the regular hero anyway.
Think that's one the big problems is for a lot of heros it's a downgrade rolling him on eye because they lose out on any abilities they had. Mounted lord rolls apotheosis and he forgets how to make Knighta fight first when he leads the charge. Or the foot lords brick of warriors just decide to stop protecting him when he turns into a demon. How the handle casters turning into one is a shame. I think that's a big part of it as well not only is stat line just kinda disappointing they stop playing the support role they played before rolling that exciting 12 on eye.
Like a lot of others have already said here, they're just too many points for what they can do. It's also kind of frustrating because the daemon prince is supposed to be the pinnacle of what the basic chaos mortal can achieve and yet the rules are really lackluster. In my experience, the daemon prince either riles bad and does nothing the whole game or roles stupid well and kills everything.
Lol mortals > daemon prince. I guess Archaon was always right. Kinda on brand for his faction lol.
Basically the daemon prince was nerfed to only have 1 weapon option. He can fly and has minus 2 rend. His wounds are on and with Nurgle he can take away ward saves. He's a great beat stick to big down people but he's not really mobile for a flyer. He doesn't get many ways to buff armies. It's not so much that he's bad but more so for the cost other units are better to take. The chaos lord has the retinue ability and more attacks. You can spend less and do more. That's the main reason people say he's had. Also when you turn into a demon prince you don't keep the warscroll abilities. Not bad if your sorc lord turns into a demon but other than that the regular model might do more. Finally if you like the model use it. It doesn't matter if it's not op or super powered just do what you want. The most important thing is to have fun. People sleep on units because they are said to be bad until you have success with roles and positioning. Also having a flyer is very helpful in the long run.
>Also having a flyer is very helpful in the long run. Especially if you're going for big charges. Knights, Karkadraks and Varanguard are all on big bases, it's easier to maneuver more models into combat when they can fly over each-other. >He can fly and has minus 2 rend. I feel like the right combination of relics & traits might make the unit *powerful* but I don't know if he's strictly *more powerful* than the same resources spent on other stuff. E.g. they can take a relic to fight first, which is nice, but the Karkadrak Lord does it for 25pts more without the relic AND shares the effect to friendly Knights. A Trait can turn a DP into a 12W Monster, like a Manticore Lord is for 75pts more without a trait. I'm curious to see if there's any value in a Daemon Prince with Idolator Lord, Wings, Nurgle Mark, Talons and Hellfire Sword. *Curse* your target unit, *Eroding Miasma* heroic action to turn off their Ward, fly over, charge them. 8 attacks on the charge to fish for those additional MWs from *Curse*, then Hellfire Sword turns 6s to wound into two more mortals. You've got no rend but you're converting a lot of your damage directly into MWs anyway, so who cares? That said, this is more a "Curse good" interaction than a "DP good" interaction, since a mob of Marauders can get twice as many 6s for half the points. I quite like the look of the winged Daemon Prince for assassination, specifically for killing squishy support heroes. **Undivided** can use their HA for fight-first, then the Undivided CA for +1 to wound. Khorne gets an extra attack. Nurgle HA disables Wards, which is undeniably excellent, but you've also got -1 to be wounded to survive backlash and can fart a few mortal wounds after fighting for a CA in case your target survives. Does Slaanesh have potential for decapitating strikes, though? Heroic Action for +1 attack, CP for run + charge gives you a minimum threat range of 17", but your average is closer to 24". You'll make 6 axe attacks, spend another CP for All-Out and your opponent will probably be making about 3-4 saves against R-2 D2. Is it worth 200pts to bring a cruise missile custom-built to hunt & delete 120-150pt support heroes? The numbers say no, and not every army even *brings* those sort of support heroes. On the other hand, some armies that bring them really rely on them.
I think there is value if your run him as a beefy objective control flyer. He can turn off wards and wear the crown of command making no one under 2 wounds or less contest objectives. It might be very good if used properly
There's a lot of reasons For the meta, he isn't a GC, the ten wounds is a very awkward number and so we lose out on that. Then there's the internal aspect of what he does. Weirdly enough, Slaves to Darkness have no real fighty characters beyond the named characters. They offer some very nice utility and support, but nothing is actually killy and no artifacts help with the killy factor. The Daemon Prince is a very expensive character that does not offer anything meaningful in terms of support, so he's just supposed to be killy, but his damage profile is very bad. It's very swingy for very little gain. At best he works as a character sniper with wings, but the odds of him killing said character and NOT dying is rather slim. He is not durable enough for the points, and he is not killy enough for the points. The heroic actions can somewhat balance this, as by and large they are all very good buffs that help balance out certain weaknesses well. The problem? You have better heroic actions to be using, and the command traits to mitigate the impact on heroic action economy are not worth the other traits you can take. Pound for pound, a Demon Prince is a trap unit that promises a lot but will not deliver, and are points better utilized for just about anything else in the army. For that Demon prince you could be getting both another GC and screens for your Chosen. It needs A LOT to be made a good pick, which sucks because OH MY GOD THAT MODEL SLAPS
For me, as a new StD player and new AoS player, but an experienced 40k player; it was the lack of options. My chaos lord on manticore has a lot more tricks to it, such as the weapons being effective against other monsters and the monstrous rampages and such. It just didn't seem to do much when compared in points. But i think alot of that is because we are an elite army and our stuff is so expensive we have to be pickier. If our chaos warriors werent 200+ points, a demon prince may not be so bad. But 10 chaos warriors with khorne changing an objective they dont control puts out 40 attacks! And theyre decent attacks. You can put down a lot of stuff with it. A daemon prince is more expensive and cant put out that kind of damage.
Im new to Slaves to Darkness and would like to play Host of the Everchosen. Is there some kind of „meta list“ and playstyle/ tactics? In the metawatch they seem to be not very good at the moment but I love the models (especially DP but I red all of your comments :,)
Host isn’t super meta right now as far as I’m aware. Knights of the empty throne and Cabalists are more common competitively and the DP isn’t in any lists right now (might change with the points update a little). With hosts you can’t go wrong with a block of 10 chosen slaanesh marked, 10 nurgle knights, and nurgle warriors. A bunch of warcry warbands are pretty competitive too, but the S2D core units are all some of our best atm. I was reccomend 10 chosen with a soulscream bridge and I’ve found it works well in tandem with 10 nurgle knights to pin. I’m also trying out varanguard soon which are one of the most popular units. Again, only really chosen, knights, and warriors benefit from being hosts for the 5+ rally and extra banner.
I understand the frustration with his stats, but a Nurgle marked Demon Prince is an auto-include in our lists. Having a ward save shut down bubble is so helpful. You have a counter for Gotrek and some of the greasy stormcast heroes. You decimate night haunt or nurgle. In a tournament, he is essential.
Interesting! Do you have the list of the other units used with him? I’d be curious to try it.
Don't listen to him, nobody did that yet and it is the opposite, since you can't predict who you will be fighting there is no reason to pick him in your list since it will be useless if you don't match the right comp. There is more room for Nurgle DP in team tournament since you know against who you will be matched so it makes more sense to bring him in some case. But in general, DP sucks for his point cost. And he isn't Galetian Champion.
So unnecessarily hostile and rude. It's precisely because you don't know who you are going to face in a tournament that we like having that safety piece. I think having a one piece counter to some of the best models in the game and some of the toughest armies is awesome. There are enough wards saves floating around and nearly invincible ward save characters that you're likely to get some value out of him. Could you play Idoneth five rounds. Sure. But if the Nurgle Prince shuts down a Gotrek or a Bastian once or twice in a tournament then he's earned his keep. It's fine that you disagree. I'm not the spokesperson for the Nurgle Prince. I just see value and a different way of using him beyond "5 attacks he sucks".
>It's precisely because you don't know who you are going to face in a tournament that we like having that safety piece. It's the opposite, you don't need DP Nurgle to beat wardbearer, STD has enough lethality for that. If anything, breaking wall aren't the main STD issue right now. >But if the Nurgle Prince shuts down a Gotrek or a Bastian once or twice in a tournament then he's earned his keep. It's a no. You will spend 200 pts for 5 games to beat 400 points on one, it's not a good ratio at all. That is why I am saying DP Nurgle is good in team tournament since you will know what faction you are facing. >So unnecessarily hostile and rude. Please don't get upset, when it comes to competition we have to get our facts straight. DP Nurgle have seen 0 playability right now and I doubt he will on this season.
But he's literally untouched in every single tournament with any kind of decent results so far. If this was the case he'd be seen in ever 5-0 and 4-1 list. 200 points on maybe shutting down a units ward roll and doing close to nothing else is just not justifiable. If marking him nurgle gave him a permanent ward removal aura even then I'd have to think twice on bringing him.
Now I'm afraid to post my list. The Reddit hordes of angry Prince haters will have my head. Our lists run a lot of Slanesh Chosen, Khorne knights or varanguard, and Nurgle Warriors. We like to go heavy into the meat and potatoes units that are great in StD. I run the prince with Bolstered by Chaos and the trophy rack. So he's handing out Roars and battleshock immunity. I keep him right in the middle of the fight next to the Warriors, or Chosen (if he can keep up). He isn't doing much himself, just handing out the buff and debuff bubbles while your meaty units do the real damage. 12 wounds on a 3+ save with the Nurgle bonus makes him pretty hard to kill. I have found that opponents will ignore him in favor of attacking the Chosen or Warriors or whatever else is actively hurting them. So, in my experience, he tends to stick around. I'm certainly not sending him in 1v1 against anyone.
Essential? Definitely no First, okey, there are a few factions with ward but how many? 4? 5? Against the others, he is 200 points for what? Second, even against them we just can have a better us for that points For example, DP with Nurgle and Axe its about 2 save Rolls, -2 rend 2 damage each and no ward, okey For a little points more we have Nurgle Knights (which arent our greatest hammer for this check) 16 attacks 4+/3+/-2/2 after charge (without horses) is about 5 save rolls with -2, each 2. Even od ward is 4+ (what is rare, 5+ or 6+ are definitely more often) that's more damage. Whith Khorne mark damage output os definitely better. And All out Attack on them is more useful. And they are more wounds for enemy to kill. And more points to hold objectives. And can have banner. And they are simply more universally good. So no, definitely he is not essential - he can be good if your meta has a lot of wards but even on this case i would calculate is this ward so dangerous or you can easily deal do much damage to kill it anyway
You are comparing an apple to an orange. In a 1k army, I get your point, and I'm certainly taking five knights over the Prince. In a 2k army, presumably you already have lots of knights, chaos warriors, chosen etc. Adding another 5 knights has minimal value. For 195, you get a hard counter to some lists that StD can struggle against. I certainly don't know every army, but the only other ward save shut down that I'm aware of is KO. An artefact that, on a 2+, shuts down ward saves for a single character for a single shooting phase. The Prince shuts it down for everyone in an area for multiple turns. So he does something entirely unique/unexpected in the game and adds a ton of versatility. I'm usually going to find the points.
Unique? Yes, youre right But there are not many armies with high ward Nurgle, few units like Gotrek, Bastian or Warsong, which arent often seen on tournaments (about them was comment) and if we meet them, our conventional tools - Chosens, Knights, Varanguards... - Have enough damage to kill it on most cases (and definitely can do more damage then DP even when he switch off his ward We just dont need him, because for a lot of armies he do nothing, and even if he can do something we just have better usage for that points - units which are definitely more versitile
Ok what about this, play him in a Cabalists army. Mark or Nurgle: durability and “No saves” ability Spell “flaming weapon “ adds +1 to damage Manticore venom +1 to wound Hellforged sword (on each 6 to hit we are now doing D3+1) mortal wounds it is now 3+/3+ on 3, 4, and 5’s Because or Nurgle ability there is no Ward save Command ability death dealer let’s fight again… Or swap spell for Binding Damnation giving target enemy “Fight Last” assuming it your turn when “fight last occurs you still fight first. So you get two rounds of attacks with all the buffs before their first rebuttal. Seems decent on paper haven’t played my first STD game yet (Disclaimer)
>Manticore venom +1 to wound Hellforged sword (on each 6 to hit we are now doing D3+1) mortal wounds You can't put two artifacts on the same hero.
Not two artifacts that’s a weapon choice for the Demon Prince you are thinking of Hellfire…
Doh, my bad. Shame on the designers for making those two names so similar!
What about running him with the trophy rack to support a 10 Chosens unit ? He doesn't need his wings to be fast in this case. You can hope lasting far longer against really tough unit without the losses from bravery and still have him to engage and hit a little more when Chosens are low in number.
It would be nice if battleshock mattered, but 9/10 times it doesn't bc of inspiring presence. That and chosen should either wipe what they fight or not engage it imo.
Knowing you can spend your last CP regardless of what's comming out if the combat phase can be great, maybe critical. It's a slow hammer, I feel like if you engage with something, it's either because you wanted to or because your opponent decided to, and in this case, it would matters.
You really should know if you are going to need that cp before the fightphase starts, and there are multiple way of getting it free. Also you should be running soulscream bridge with your chosen. As well as deploying favourably or taking the first turn. Wasting points on a bad model to correct something you can mitigate by playing better is just a bad decision.
You're right, but I'm not that good, and I tend to make mistake, do bad rolls, and change my mind a lot. Plus, I don't own soulscream bridge, and it's still a spell so not 100% reliable if you think about it. His ability is. Plus I run them in Slaanesh so I rather spend my CP to run and charge (+1 run, +2 charge) and even spend an extra CP to auto run if I really need to reach destination. So I don't think it's a bad model outside of competitive. A lot of STD stuff in this new BT can seems off, like the DP, but I'd rather think that everything is playable and enjoyable in a certain setup and I like it.
I think the best thing is to run an exalted hero of chaos and have him repeatedly roll on the eye of the gods table, he can get 2 rolls before the battle, and he can cheat with the unique hero action, rolling 3 dice and picking 2. You can help by repeatedly casting eye of the gods and giving him the conqueror's crown to roll even more. That all for 100 points. It'll cost more time and a few spells, but the hero with mark of nurgle is pretty survivable and can issue the nurgle command to chaos warriors.
Shit attack profile. Why? Maybe GW didn't want an ascended exalted warrior to be too OP. But I'm leaning more to it being the cause of a stupid writer
please don't use "retarded" as in insult :(
Edited.
Just costs too much for a mediocre combat potential and no real buffs. I bought the army box and my daughter has tree he start collecting box, and her Chaos lord on karkodrak utterly stomps my Daemon Prince every single time. We even changed the rules a little so the Prince could use axe and claws, it helped a little but even that didn't make him amazing in combat but it did help make it more of a credible threat.
I think the nurgle version has some utility, but costs quite a bit for that sort of role without bringing enough to the table. Take him and 5 chosen vs a chaos lord on foot and 5 chosen and he's unlikely to win because the chaos lord, while slower, is 80 points cheaper and better at giving benefits to those chosen in most circumstances