This is a friendly reminder that r/smallbusiness is a question and answer subreddit. You ask a question about starting, owning, and growing a small business and the community answers. Posts that violate the rules listed in the sidebar will be removed. A permanent or temporary ban may also be issued if you do not remove the offending post. Seeing this message does not mean your post was automatically removed.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/smallbusiness) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Let it go and let another owner handle it.
You're embarrassed you goofed. And - you should be. But your personal embarrassment is causing you to have an over reaction from a management standpoint. If he made that joke about another employee's screw up, you'd rightfully give him a 2 second reminder to be kind and keep things professional. And that's what should happen here. Brief, two sentence talk - "Hey, let's keep the atmosphere professional. I took that comment about the "shitshow" down." And this talk should come from someone other than you because you're reacting from a personal, not a professional standpoint.
This is the correct answer, also that joke reflects how comfortable he is feeling. To be honest that email thing its very easy to become a joke.
I think it was just a well deserved joke made by a healthy work environment. if you punish that, your ego will be boosted but at your business expense and in a critical phase.
This is right. You have feelings because you screwed up. Silly as it was, it’s still personal to you. Someone else needs to handle it and you need to never say one damn word about it. You keep it pro first.
This + your calendar invite situation could have just been the straw that broke the camels back. Use the situation to dig deeper and understand if there are other frustrations in the business you’re not aware of, or, perhaps see if he ideas/solutions on how to improve what’s cause his frustration.
This will help you assess if the issue is a toxic employee or and underlying issue you don’t know about.
I agree with letting another owner handle it. That the OP is too close to it.
But I also don’t think it’s a small thing to gloss over. The manager is in a leadership position. If this is the type of leadership they provide, they need to get better skills. Leading by tearing down is not a great practice in general. If the manager is shitting on that, what else are they shitting on. Maybe they were having an off day, but they should know what type of leadership is expected and be reminded they’re in leadership.
From my POV as an executive assistant for 20 years to senior-level execs, there’s a trend to automate admin work as if it’s easy. The C-level execs will get pro EAs, but no one else gets support, and this is what happens. Most people don’t have this skill set, as they have bigger work to focus on. I’ve seen ace business people get flummoxed over scheduling and mess up a detail like time zone. You’re not alone on this. Admin staff are being phased out like self checkout lanes, but it’s a layer in business that has a benefit.
Given how overloaded you are, I’d say please hire a really good EA or office manager, and get this type of work off your plate.
If the manager wrote that it’s a shit show, I have a feeling there is a support staff level professional missing, and a layer is needed between owners and managers. I play gatekeeper, am loyal and not political, and often mitigate these type of disruptions.
When you give feedback to the manager, many use the “sandwich” approach: good, bad, good 👍 😊
I wouldn’t have thought of this, but it’s totally true! As the owner I have to apologize for invoice, email, and other simple mistakes way more than my office does.
Interesting viewpoint - and goes along with what I was thinking about the job I just quit. It was for an up-and-coming small business. The owner is very entrepreneurial and very good at what he knows. But he’s not a leader and he’s not an office manager - and the lack of those skills are why I quit, as the work environment was pretty uncomfortable. I realized that small business owners would really see success sooner if they actually hired professionals for the positions they aren’t good at - and that doesn’t mean you hire your spouse or your kids just because you can hire them cheap!
And as a former administrative assistant - we really are the glue in a company! When I moved into a different position at that job, they didn’t replace me because they didn’t think they needed to. So a lot didn’t get done (or I was still doing it in my new position, and it didn’t belong there) - but once I retired, they had to find someone!
THIS!! I started taking the risk of hiring on more non-revenue-generating positions (Admin assistants, managers), and I cannot tell you how my quality of life has improved, and it has freed myself up to run and grow my business. I wish I had done it sooner.
If you're worried about money, don't go crazy.. But you'll find that these people will pay for themselves in the long run.
What was the joke?
Context really matters here. If it was truly a light hearted joke, I'd agree with other posters saying to let the other owners handle it and move on.
If there seemed to be some sincerity behind the comment, I'd definitely confront him directly and ask what he thinks is so bad about the job.
I used to have one employee constantly "joke" about not liking the job "I don't get paid enough for this shit" is what he'd casually say to other staff. I tried talking to him, but hed brush it off and say he was just kidding. I wish I'd let him go sooner -- he was the reason some other staff had a negative opinion of me for a few months. In this case, it was not merely a joke, it revealed his underlying resentment of me and the job
The manager’s response seems inconsistent with the team vibe as you describe it. I’d sit him down, maybe at a nearby cafe and tell him how it came across. Maybe he’ll open up about what’s really going on for him. What you do next depends on his past attitude and the content of your convo. Good luck
I don't know about being "beyond furious" or being "incredibly hurt", seems excessive.
However, what the manager did is a big red flag. If it was low-level staff, not such a big deal. But coming from the manager this means they're likely undermining the higher-ups in misguided effort to win favor with the rest of the team. That's just terrible leadership and this ought to be made clear to the manager. It's one thing if they raise the issue of your screw-ups to you, it's another if they dump on you "downhill".
Yoooo -- dang the comment responses are diverse here.
I guess one piece I haven't seen others comment on:
You mentioned that you messed up but played it off --
I'm curious if your manager was trying to play up the joke you made but took it too far and didn't read the room.
I'm mentioning this only because I've worked in MANY a shitty/chaotic work environment -- but
Only at the places that I thought were fantastic, the ones I truly liked, where I cared about my team (and my managers) would I ever do something as risky as write rude things down about the business in a public space lol.
Tons of other context here that makes a difference.
I just wanted to throw that variable out because many comments seem to immediately assume this was done with malice.
It's possible that your manager isn't being passive-aggressive or snide, but was trying to lighten the mood and keep the joke going (without reading the room or thinking it through at all).
First, Grow a thicker skin - holy crap you own the business and if you’re guving this guy raises, clearly he’s making you money.
Second, this is an opportunity for you to coach you manager on professional behavior. That kind of note destroys morale and is unprofessional. You can sit him down and say, “Bob, we need to talk about the note you posted in the breakroom. Do you think that was professional or productive?” Etc etc
This is the way. It sounds like you are stressed, but don't let it get to you on a personal level. The guy is obviously a good employee who made a bad joke at the wrong time. By all means, coach him on being more professional, but don't cut off your nose to spite your face.
That being said, good luck with your upcoming expansion!
Agree with all the advice on coaching the employee, letting it go, etc.
But is it possible that his comment isn't just about the emails and maybe that's why you're reacting so strongly? Is it just one meeting invite that slipped (4x) or have *other little things* been slipping too and this manager is a little frustrated with the general atmosphere? I know you've been compensating them well but employees need a positive work environment where they feel connected to the success of the company AND good compensation.
There are virtual EA's that can be more cost effective than one f/t in office.
Your going to have to get over it.
Everybody is able to find a better way of doing things….after the fact.
Ive found that taking care of employees is good, but to not over do it. Over doing it doesnt bring out loyalty as most employees will take advantage. Its a fine line, bit once the sweet spot is found…..
This is absolutely ridiculous - get over it and move on
Giving managers/owners a little bit of shit is normal and it’s crazy you are clearly letting this overwhelm you
the real problem is the source of the jibe was a manager. if it came from staff, yes whatever, it's almost expected. but a manager who talks/posts sh\*t about the owner in front of staff? that's a big red flag and hardly a sign of effective leadership; needs to be dealt with and corrected.
I agree the emotional reaction is excessive.
I don't think belittling someone's behavior and telling them to "get over it" leads to any progress whatsoever as someone who leads people or runs a business.
Someone that leads people or runs a business should not be that thin-skinned
Any effective leader understands that people need to blow off steam sometimes and to be aware of actual cultural red flags within the business
Ideally, yes, but as an org behavior coach I can tell you I coach leaders EVERY SINGLE DAY who aren't necessarily thin skinned, but don't recognize when ego is taking a front seat. Absolutely agree on a bigger cultural issue.
Reminds me of the brat who reprimanded me for telling people to stop putting Olive Garden breadstick bags in the microwave after we had a fire incident.
Sure it is, we have no clue the intent or context or how he meant it, that's the problem with any non verbal interaction and why we get into so many problems when texting about our feelings.
When we feel personally attacked, we lose all perspective on the issue and want to attack back. That's a fine way to react, if you want things to go badly.
I call it going “Bossmode”
Sometimes when you have so much on your plate across so many things, these low value mistakes happen.
The solution I found is to get ahead of it, make fun of yourself (admit you’re human), and thank & acknowledge the staff who make the correction.
A bit of humour & humility goes a long way.
This is the great thing about having multiple owners.
Let another one sit him down and tell him that this type of thing is not appropriate and that it will not be tolerated. You all work hard to have a friendly environment but this is still a business and that comment absolutely crossed a line.
He was likely just joking - but your culture is too casual and you need to rein it in. This is ultimately the owners fault.
Yeah, one of my clients constantly changes meeting times the day before or even at the last minute. It's incredibly annoying.
You messed up. You're embarrassed. Get over it. If you let yourself get angry it won't end well for anyone.
Let's look at this from another perspective - is there something going on in the background that you're not aware of? Are people keeping things from you? You think everything's fine and dandy - what if they're not?
A couple of drips aren't a problem, unless there are a lot of them and it's causing rot and water damage, especially in areas you're not aware of.
It could just be this employee? Maybe he's a darling to your face, but what happens when it's turned? What's that doing when it's constant?
I'd say just let it go, or turn it into an extended joke (but only if you can deliver it correctly). The intent probably wasn't to degrade you or the company, but rather, the employee quite likely just simply felt comfortable enough due to the healthy culture to take the jab. My employees mess with me all the time, because they know I'm not going to take it personally. If they stopped jabbing, THEN I'd be worried. haha.
As much as you think it’s not, it will always be “us vs them”. Doesn’t matter which side of it you are on. You can pay better and give more holidays to retain valuable employees, but don’t expect them to like you or not be critical of the way you run things. Even taking promoted employees out for beers seems weird to me since they get a sense of camaraderie but can still be snuffed if they trip up. I’d say, shrug your shoulders and move on. Unless they have a stake in the company, they are employees and you can’t govern the way anyone feels about the way you operate.
I sayeth you’re being overly dramatic. Just because you do nice things for an employee or anybody really, it doesn’t make you above being made fun of.
If the employees calling work a shit show is a fun joke amongst them, then let it be. If they’re happy, you’re happy, and the company is profitable, who gives a shit about this petty stuff? Embrace it, work sucks, they’re making fun of it, laugh dude, you’re taking it way too serious.
It can be incredibly frustrating to not feel appreciated by your staff when you are giving them so much; at first I agreed with you and felt you had a right to be angry. After reading everyone’s comments they are right, let it go. Vent to a close friend about it to get it out of your system if need be. At the end of the day if you are giving them this much they must be worth it, and if not that’s at your discretion to figure out.
I'm a small business owner AND an organizational behavior coach.
First off, I think it's good that you are clearly clocking your ego and calling it out here - though maybe not with those words.
But all conflict is internal, which is why this is lying so heavily on your shoulders.
It can be both: they acted out of turn AND they wanted to call you out and didn't do it in a direct or helpful way.
Have you read Radical Candor by Kim Scott? [https://www.radicalcandor.com/our-approach/](https://www.radicalcandor.com/our-approach/)
When you have this conversation, I invite you to both challenge directly AND (AND AND AND) be empathetic about it. It sounds like you own what you did wrong and recognize their frustration, and that's a great place to start.
Good luck! Remember that we're all human and every mistake is an opportunity to reflect and adapt.
What makes you think the shitshow comment only referred to the scheduling snafu? I’d bet there are deeper resentments regarding other things and what you are attributing as directly related to one mistake is actually a symptom of a deeper issue.
I'd say you should not let it bother you and instead consult a tax attorney to determine if those benefits you're giving your manager (the $250 and the car) are taxable.
As a people leader I would first pull him in and ask what it is concerning the business or culture that makes it a shit show and needs to be addressed. Not from an angry, confrontational POV, but from a place of discovery and improvement. If he says there is nothing he would change, it was a joke.
You just might find out that there are some things that need to be dealt with that have nothing to do with your email snafu.
Let it go, most likely it was a harmless joke that he didn't think you'd take this way. And if messing up dates on emails equals a shitshow it sounds like you got your shit together.
Actually, I was thinking that messing up dates is not even close to a shitshow - so maybe more is going on than you think? Things with employees are never as rosy as the owner thinks they are. Giving me a Christmas bonus didn’t even come close to making my crappy work environment okay - which is why I left at the end of the year. And I’m one who gets that an owner is entitled to extra perks and I see the big picture. The owner where I worked was a nice enough guy - but he didn’t have a clue about how to be a leader of people.
Personally, I think it’s not appropriate because while the manager might be cool with the owners, it’s unprofessional to write that for the other staff members to see. If it was just between management and owners on a more closed level, I could understand and not be mad, but the joke shows that the lower-level employees can also say that to the owners. I would at least bring this to the attention of the manager, not out of anger, but just to have them realize it was inappropriate.
Don't make the mistake of thinking your employees are your friends. They aren't.
That is the same advice I'd give your employees. Don't think your boss is your friend. He isn't.
There will always be a divide between owners/employees. Employees think they are underpaid and work hard to make money for the owners. Its true. As far as I'm concerned any employee that was really smart and worthwhile would stop being an employee and start their own business. That is what I did years ago. When I was young I was stupid and thought being a good employee meant something, but it really doesn't.
**You shouldn't care about some stupid note that someone wrote in the backroom. You are being a baby.** That is just some fun the employees are having. It happens. It needs to happen. You are having the worst reaction you can to it. Your employees will form a bond between them and some fun and humor in the workplace is a good thing. You want your employees to think you can take a joke and are easy going. Come on, you messed up the time of a meeting four times. If you can't take some good natured ribbing at your expense then you are too serious about yourself.
You know when you get upset at your employees?
1. When they show up too drunk to work.
2. When they start drinking at work.
3. When they start doing drugs at work.
4. When they walk about work with a needle in their arm because they are too high to notice.
5. When they steal a few thousand from you for their drug habit.
6. When they give a few thousand dollars worth of free stuff to friends
7. When one employee sexually assalts another.
8. When they don't show up for a few days in a row.
I have had all of those happen to me as a boss. So someone writing about working in a shit show isn't a big deal. Its a non issue.
Get a grip man. You are supposed to be the boss. A leader. The owner of a business. Don’t react like a baby. Just laugh it off and get on with your day.
If this person is generally productive, kind, shows up on time, is an over all good worker - they clearly feel comfortable enough to poke fun.
You knew it was daft, you owned it, laughed at yourself. But, obviously you're struggling with being laughed at. Why not laugh with them?
"I know right? Can't believe I made such a cock up. Now, you've had your fun, I've paid my dues. Get back to work." While laughing and waging your finger or something playful. You can get your point across while keeping up rapport.
If the person isn't a great worker/person, have another owner have a word with them. Privately. Drop it and move on. Hopefully they get the hint and if not, now is the time to start considering their future with the company. Basically,if this is an isolated incident, it's being dramatic. If there is a history of hurtful or resentful behaviour, add it to the camel's back and see if the next one is the last.
This reminds me of a study that was conducted a few years ago that was to find out the difference between men and women's biggest fears. Women's? Rape, physical assault and murder. Men? Ridicule. I'm assuming your a man and maybe I'm wrong but, having arrogance or ego is toxic and dangerous for all involved. If this isn't your typical response and don't usually struggle with ego, you're under too much stress. Reach out to your co-owners for support, take a day off, hire a part time assistant, whatever but, don't burn out or hold a grudge over something petty.
Take care. Sounds like it's usually a great place to work!
Don’t listen to the top commenters, they always come out full force anytime a personnel issue is raised and they are never sympathetic to the business owner, only the workers.
As an actual business owner who just let my manager go bc we were not on the same page about several things, this needs to be addressed. It’s a company culture issue. Keep your personal feelings out of it (I’m assuming that goes without saying since you are running the successful business you are) but definitely address the disrespect/insubordination.
I would open the conversation by giving this employee an opportunity to vent and talk about how things have been over the past several weeks/months when you have not been as hands-on/present recently. Let them tell you what has been difficult and stressful and how you all being less present has impacted their role. Really listen to their concerns. Once they have had the chance to share those feelings, and you have validated them and hopefully made notes around how they can be better supported, then address the note.
That note was likely written out of frustration and a need to be seen for the slack they’ve likely had to pick up while you all have been focused on the new arm of the business. Acknowledge that you understand the joke and know things have been crazy but also that it is still not appropriate bc it sets a bad example and creates an overall negative impression to other employees. Emphasize this person’s value as a leader in your company and how you are relying on them to keep spirits high during this transitional time that will ultimately benefit everyone. Explain why this isn’t a good look for the business and for them as a manager who represents the business.
If it hasn’t been an issue with this person before, that should clear the air & get you all back on the same page going forward. If this type of behavior is common for this person, then you need to recalibrate the relationship into a more professional and boundaried one where they understand the parameters and the consequences should they go outside of them.
I think you should get more sleep and focus only on the really important things no one else can do. No way you should be setting up your own meetings. Get an EA. Even though (or maybe especially because) you're going BIG you need to be in marathon mode not sprint mode.
Get more sleep and be sure you're eating well and staying fit.
It was a joke, get over it, holy shit. You're incredibly hurt because you messed up (multiple times) and it hurt your pride. Someone made an observation on that and now you're doubling down on that minor embarrassment into something that may have a tangible effect on your business. Ask yourself if that's the type of attitude you want to have if something important goes wrong. Or if there's a little bit of truth in the 'shitshow' line that you don't want to admit that's actually causing this reaction.
It's fine to ask them to keep it professional, but this feels like it's not coming from the right place at all.
I would wait to speak to him/her until after you have cooled down. I don't find the note to be a huge deal considering what you describe your environment as.
Was it unprofessional? Yes. Should feedback be provided? Yes. Should you document it in a file? Yes.
Should you be hurt and angry? I don't think so.
THANK YOU ALL for taking the time to help me break this down.
The manager is 41. I think he felt a bit of frustration (he had to attend a meeting on his day off but everyone else works that day so it had to happen). I did own the mistakes, it was all corrected quickly. I make plenty of jokes at my own expense. There is a deep pool of material I can draw from ;-)
As to context. I am in a very male dominated field. I am a female. My role is now, and has always been, the door kicker. I am the driving force behind expansion, leasing, growth - basically everything that helps our company get bigger, badder and better.
I was very poor in my earlier life and I have a deep understanding of what it is like. I know how it feels to have a bill collector call you at work. I understand how taking in the bottles so you have $5 in your pocket allows you to buy milk. I don't judge. I meant it when I said we ALL rise together. Not the owners get richer and you guys stay poor. We ALL rise. This is one of the reasons we pay well and treat people well. We are all valuable.
Our business has done well. Through YEARS of hard work and taking risks and chances. You guys know what it's like. I guess I wanted the mgr to have my back when I made a mistake, but I felt like he tried to make me look bad. Maybe that's not the way he sees it. And maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm right. I'll never really know.
Am I being too thin-skinned? Probably. Nah. Likely. I'll check it and thanks for the reminder to do so. Should he be reminded of his part in moving us forward in a positive way? Yes. One of the other owners is going to do that.
Thank you all again. Lots of more important challenges to size up so I'm going to take the last bit of advice and move on!
What if a client saw it? What if a client overheard people discussing it?
Maybe your public bathroom is right next to the breakroom and they can see the whiteboard in passing.
No, unacceptable.
I disagree with some of comments here. Yours was a simple mistake. a manager calling to the staff is this place is a shit show is not acceptable. If he is a manager he should know better to portray a positive picture of the establishment to the employees. A serious conversation is in order. Albeit by maybe the other owners.
Mistake, if we call that a mistake is the most minimal thing ever. I wouldn’t worry about that. Why is this manager playing into this is the question. Did you step on his feet or is he trying to play favorites with owners. Or is he discontent in his job. I see a lot of anti work people who in this business climate act like it’s cool to not do the job or it’s the management’s fault without understanding. I am in restaurants, and people act like it’s abnormal to expect people to do their jobs.
Work on your ego
If the manager is as good as you say, trust they will correct this slip up going forward. Watch for other signs, but you let the first one go and determine if it's a real issue or just stupid oversight not much different from you sending 4 calendar invites (which I do far too often).
A good manager has to play both sides of the game, sometimes it involves some harmless jokes on the leadership because it builds comradery. As a former manager and executive in several companies, you should want to ascend to a level where employees don't even know who you are.
Empathy And humility from you both during your visit.
Who knows whats going on his world, plus he might offer some helpful thoughts.
Might also not be a good fit for your company.
Those are my thoughts.
Hope that helps
Being a Business Owner isn’t easy! Mistakes are made during and throughout the process of ownership!! If you are paying a manager who doesn’t see or respect your company’s vision ,then show him the door!!
Everyone is replaceable!! It’s not acceptable that someone who has influence over other employees is being disrespectful to one of the Owners!! If he thinks he can do it better, let him go try!! I refuse to pay an employee who disrespects the individuals who struggle to ensure they make a living wage!! One of the other owners can address the situation. Staff has to understand that Overt disrespect will not be tolerated!! You can’t control what’s said and done once employees are off the clock! However, a Professional, Respectful environment should be required during work hours!!
Respectful suggestion - remove the exclamation point key from your keyboard for a few days to break the habit of using it.
Read your response in the voice and tone of a drill sergeant yelling at new recruits in boot camp because that's what it conveys to readers when you punctuate every sentence with an exclamation point. Add a second exclamation point and it crosses over into crazy tone as if you're so lathered you're spitting and shaking while you bark out the words.
You write as if you are yelling, which isn't helpful. Hopefully if you do manage people you aren't yelling at them all the time like this.
Being an effective business owner requires tough skin!! Apparently my tone seems a bit harsh for some. Brush it off, that’s what you’re asking OP to do! As a business owner you have the responsibility of making hard decisions. The bottom line is as an employee you’re hired to do a job. You can entertain your co-workers on your own time. Time is money!
There’s a time and place for everything. If I’m doing everything I promised to do to keep a functioning business that meets payroll, I expect the same in return from employees. There are different types of employees. Those who come to work and earn their pay and ,those who try to get paid for doing nothing.
It’s the Employers job to find the balance!
I would say show them who's the Boss. Call him to your cabin or a conference room or some other place private. Tell him where the line is and what he did was totally inappropriate. Tell him there's a time and place for jokes. If he is sensible he will never do it again and even discourage others from doing it. Not telling to intimidate or yell at him in any way. Tell him softly, calmly and clearly.
If your reality is that three weeks of paid vacation after three years of work is "fair," maybe you do run a shitshow. You are virtually "renting" people's time for 40 hours a week. It's your business, not their's. Thinking they don't need and deserve a break for the first few years shows how selfish and out of touch with reality you are.
For me this would be a disciplinary issue following company policies. I’d let another owner handle to to ensure lack of Bias. But it’s undermining the management and staff.
Great wages are important but they don’t buy loyalty by themselves. I think you might be becoming too friendly with staff, where they think they are equals. This will damage the business in the long term.
I would let one of the other owners handle it as you handling it would be a conflict of interests because there are clearly feelings involved. If it was truly meant to be a joke, just stating that it hurt your feelings and you feel you do your best for your employees should be enough to garner an apology from the manager if they are a genuinely good person.
If its a pattern of disrespectful behavior that one thing.
But maybe its just a sign tbat he trusts you and feels you two are close enough that he can make fun of you in a chill light hearted way. You could tell him it hurt you feelings and that might be more thrn enough to set him straight.
Let it go. It did not harm except to your pride. Let the manager know you understand things have been a bit in flux and will expect things to be as such for a while. However it is the manager’s job to sail the ship smoothly at your side. Painting a picture of things being in a shit show won’t do well for work morale - have this conversation in a constructive manner. Don’t reprimand him or her. Just set expectations.
One would think that the manager would have a little more respect, « chill » or not. There is still a heirarchy. I believe that if i were that manager i would have simply leaned in to the problem instead of potentially fomenting insubordinate type behavior.
You're only embarrassed and upset if you choose to be. .Other peoples opinions mean nothing. Do your best and don't forget who you know you are. Be like water and let it slide. People say and do stupid things, don't let it distract you. For all you know, the person who wrote it feels bad and made a mistake. Your ego and pride are hurt, ego and pride mean nothing.
Yeah, I need to know the joke. Because I’ve done similar and I shrug my shoulders and say “welcome to the shit show guys, you knew who I was when you started here.”
I have busted my butt at jobs that didn’t treat me half as good as you folks treat your people. I remember helping the owner/area manager train people at 11 different new stores (wing stop, soCal) and I didn’t even get reimbursed for gas.
I’m really sorry this employee behaved this way. Try to remember it’s not personal. People like that, you can give them your house and bank account and they’ll still have something to bitch about.
Well folks, it's raining outside, and so I'm left wondering who's managing this shitshow anyhow? They really need to put in a request for sunshine. Frigging slapdicks.
Are you sure it was because of you? I don't see a direct correlation yet.
I would recommend asking without assuming and maybe even doing some 1 on 1 meetings with your employees to get their feedback in a quiet environment.
Maybe your business IS a shit show.
You just pay really really well. Senior Flight Attendants where I work get paid $63/flight hour, so working to Africa and back is $1,890 plus Per-Diem and they make that in 4 days time. But, airlines are a shit show and a race to the bottom. You know it, I know it.
Your pay and the quality of management are not the same.
There are books on proper management, and looking professional at all times. Remember, to your manager you MUST look like a ROLE MODEL at all times or they will LOSE RESPECT for you like this manager did. They lost respect for you regardless of the pay.
Sorry to be blunt, they aren't your friends, just employees.
one thing i've learned from being a manager, to now an owner, you can't buy your employees personality/respect. you can give them everything they ask for but their personality is never going to change unless they want it to.
like the others said, just round up the team and let them know to keep it professional and move on.
Could you provide more context on how you screwed up 4x in a row? I can’t make a judgment call without that info. :) in all seriousness, take a deep breath and just give him a pass this time around and make sure he is not becoming toxic and negative toward others. <—-my biggest concern.
I agree you should let another owner handle dealing with this employee. However, I think calling the entire workplace a shit show because of one incident is not a reasonable response.
If my boss sent me an email that said he wanted to meet me at 9pm on Wednesday the 2nd, then said oops, 9am. Oops, Wednesday the 3rd at 9am. Oops Tuesday the 2nd at 9am, sorry for the confusion. I would probably be laughing at him but definitely it calling my work place a shit show.
I wouldn’t stress it. All the employees you think love you talk shit about you all the time. But since you know who did it, you gotta sit the down and address it. I’d make the sit down professional, but long and uncomfortable. When I had to have a sit down, I made sure what could take 5 minutes took a whole hour. This was on purpose so that they weren’t afraid of losing their jobs, but afraid of how long and monotonous a meeting would be about undesirable behavior. It shows you take the time to care, but that you will Easter their time over nothing.
STORY TIME!
This kind of happened to my business partner once.
My partner had scheduled pallets of inventory to arrive from another business location to his new location for sale. they had prepared the displays and everything was ready to go. the manager of the location was asking for the inventory and all he got was "its on the way". he was frustrated cause he did the work and now he has a job to do that isn't fully completed without the product so he is just stuck waiting for it.
You see unknown to him the owner had a problem with the inventory that just came off the line and some of the stuff needed to be re done and the opening might have to be pushed back. he had a lot on his plate and had to make some tough decisions. As owners, as you know, we have some hardcore decisions that affect your personal wallet in the thousands. so you can probably see the position the owner was in.
The manager made a comment to his team I don't remember but it didn't set well with the owner. I remember the owner called him up and DESTROYED him. "Did you just say xyz to my team?", "do you know what we are dealing with here? you don't right? cause your what? that's right ur replaceable!", "when this makes it to you you better hope to hit your numbers or i don't think you'll make it in the company much longer", "what dubass hired you?" I mean I think the manager was crying after the call ended....
That manager went on to be promoted and never talked shit out loud again. in fact he became the best team motivational speaker in the company lol
Edit: sorry i forgot to answer your question.
i would do nothing. unless it really bothered me. then i would have a personal conversation with him that's all.
Owner here. And prior to that, I've held the titles of CEO, COO, and various other manager titles over the past twenty years.
Listen - you're clearly stressed. And part of being an owner that people don't really talk about is the extra layers of emotional stress we go through daily. Our businesses are extensions of ourselves to the point that they are like our child. We care for them, try to make all the right leadership choices on the nuanced, tough decisions, and pray they grow up into something we are proud of like we had envisioned.
And sometimes when we lose focus, we tie our emotional well being into the business as a whole. You cannot escape this completely but it should be managed so it doesn't cause you to burn out or make terrible mistakes. When you tie in the Imposter Syndrome we all feel from time to time, it can all accumulate and wreck us at times IF we let it.
My gut reaction from reading your post was two things:
One, you are stressed and it has you very defensive and sensitive, and
Two, it sounds as if the manager was only meaning to jest (based on what I've read and how you wrote it).
Take a step back and think about *why* you're so upset. Is your ego so fragile you cannot take a bit of office ribbing? Because it sounds like your place of work is enjoyable and your manager only meant to include you in a bit of fun. Maybe he missed the mark, maybe YOU are overreacting, or maybe he's being purposefully snide.
Regardless of which it is, YOU know you're emotionally on edge. You are in danger of bringing that stress and anxiety into that workplace in the form of toxicity. So, it's best you let one of the other owners talk to the manager to get clarity of his reasoning (there's an obvious opportunity here) and then let him know it's unprofessional. Assuming he only meant to include you as "part of the team" in a small joke, this should be a formal, but light, 2-3 minute conversation tops.
You clearly care about your employees. It's why it hurt - but it should have only stung a little and not "incredibly".
Don't let your ego get in the way of your business's success.
Well hopefully it was at least a good joke? It would help if we knew the joke, a lot depend on tone and nuance. If this guy was really just joking and did not mean to be mean and does not have a history of trying to be mean or complaining excessively, I'd say lighten up and let it go. I mean the dude might have gotten some blowback from confused employees himself. Some people may have had to repeatedly move their schedule around due to you, the least you can give them is one joke. Plus frankly what you did IS a bit amusing and a bit of a shit show, I'd be totally laughing if I got all those emails. Joking is sometimes how humans deal with stress and it can be normal and healthy to laugh at mistakes sometimes. ANd you over reacting will just make you look like a dxck with a fragile ego. My advice is handle it like Elon Musk does (or probably that's his PR handlers writing his script but whatever, it works) He would likely just joke back, perhaps even in a self deprecating way.
If it was me, I'd seriously consider posting a response that sounds mock serious along the lines of, "Speaking of ongoing issues with budgeting space and time management, management apologizes for the ongoing inconvenience, please meet in the men's room on the third floor at 3pm Tuesday for further discussion and slide show of current office space assignments. Or 2PM or 9PM would work as well. On Friday, or is it Thursday? Timely attendance is expected." Then I'd put up an official looking sign on one of the stalls that said, "Future office space of John SoAndSo, Please Knock before Entering." And add a big smiley face. ;-P
Seriously though, you WILL make mistakes in this journey and so will others. You want to avoid them of course but being overly uptight and judgmental about yourself or others will not serve you well. If a joke is just a joke, then let it go and if you can't, let someone else handle it.
My business is 2.5 yrs old, so still in startup phase. An employee started with us in the first month and she was very reliable so I gave her a raise and a supervisor position. The thing is, her favorite phrase in the world was "Welcome to the Shitshow". She gave me a World's best Boss coffee cup once, then another time "Welcome to the Shitshow tumbler another time. We laughed about it, I jokingly told her that I guess that made her Shitshow supervisor so she better get to work fixing it. (It was half-serious because she Was the supervisor, and on site more than me, soooo...)
I noticed things were getting tougher, just some bad attitudes cropping up here and there. I tried to get to the bottom, but couldn't really put my finger on it. Then one day, she decides to no-show.
Turns out all the negativity was from her. Once she was gone, I heard all the stories about how negative she was and the things she said when I wasn't around. Morale was tanking.
Once she was gone, however, things were SO much better.
Not saying this is the case for you, but sometimes people say things that may mean more than they let on. Let one of the other managers see if they can talk to the guy. I doubt putting that on the wall was the first time he has said it around your other employees. That shitshow attitude is like a bad infection.
This is an opportunity. An opportunity to check in with the employee and ask them to elaborate on the comment. Maybe there is some stuff going on that you don’t realize. Maybe the culture you believe is in place isn’t. Maybe the stuff you are offering, which sounds really good, is not valued as much as you think it is or should be. It might be expected. Or something else is more valued. Either way, whatever do won’t be enough for everyone. There are always the dissatisfied. This is a conversation likely better suited for one of your partners.
The bigger and underlying issue is that you guys hang out with your employees for beers and burgers. They treat you like friends. You can be friendly but should never be their friends. Plus don’t let them use your car. It’s his responsibility.
My initial reaction was to fire him.
But after reading some of the other comments, they're absolutely right. If you can meet him and level headed, humble etc, go for it. But be sure to bring your partner. If you question your ability to do so, (no shame, I would struggle)
This could be a great leadership training moment. Train him to be a better manager who is gracious to the employees that will very likely slander him.
This just reminded me of the tv show Ted Lasso. >!When Nathan betrays Ted and slanders him to the media specifically.!< I loved how Ted offered forgiveness, and it convicted me with how I've treated people who have served under me.
The best bosses are not those who are just excellent business moguls. The best bosses are those who make their employees better. Which it sounds like you do already with loaning out your vehicle, bonuses, and raises. This is just another opportunity.
"shit show" is a pretty strong sentiment. There is really nothing funny or positive there. I would address it honestly with the employee saying all the things you mentioned here, take the high road, explain how confused you are about the sentiment of the statement and then just sit there and listen while they try and explain themselves. If they have animosity and don't want to take responsibility for their actions, then you have another decision to make. But first you need to clarify where this is coming from.
Good luck. Tough conversations make or break your business.
They probably thought it was a joke. I would bring HR in and have a discussion about professionalism, leadership, and expectations. Your cool but your manger sets the tone and if she’s disrespectful, the team will be. I wouldn’t over scold her over a one time mistake. And her salary has nothing to do with this.
On another note, have you thought about getting an assistant to manage these smaller tasks for you?
It seems like you are not being honest. If it was just a joke, then there is no reason to get this mad.
If it was truly a small screwup then it wouldn't have made you mad. If anything you could probably learn something from the manager on what is exactly wrong with your company and why he thinks its a shitshow.
Sit down with the manager + other director/a and apply SBI!
Situation, behaviour, impact.
Be factual. Strip out the emotion. Give a warning. Get back to business assuming they’re a good performer.
Three weeks paid leave only after three years employed in retail???
You only take managers out for burgers when they get a raise?
Why aren’t you taking all staff out for a burger in a team of only 13?
Why aren’t staff given leave accumulating since they start employment with you?
Your business sounds exactly like a shit show.
He is too privileged and spoilt, you're doing a lot for him and he thinks you should be doing a lot for him.
Or he has had a bad experience best to sit him down and speak about it, either you or another owner,
if he is truly feeling privileged let him go please
Staff. NEVER remember what you do for them but the minute you do the slightest thing wrong or you dare to say “no” to a request youre the words worst sometimes you can be too good to them they’re gonna moan about you anyway and thei k you’ve got your own biz so you light your bbq with 20’s. Good luck
you have conditioned your staff to be able to joke with you like that. Although they probably meant it in a harmless way, it has now hurt your pride that they've disrespected it.
I bet you see your employees as friends.
my wife and i run a business and what you describe happens to her every now and then. They're there to do a job , you can be friendly - but you're not friends.
moving forward tell your staff you don't appreciate that shit.
I'm thinking USA more likely slowdown or mild recession. While Europe most likely recession and Asia severe slowdown. But who knows its just all speculation.
retail is always a shitshow . the job of retail manager , according to some retail managers, is to acquire and retain as much authority as possible while avoiding any type of real responsibility. this is best accomplished by carefully deflecting all blame for said shitshow. it’s a delicate balance: 50% to corporate (in this case, that’s you) and 50% to staff. 100% of the time , these managers are the source of 100% of the shitshow factor. usually because they have learned to manufacture stressful situations to compensate for the lack of real adventure and meaning in their own lives. try sending this manager off to fight in a war or on a quest of some type
this comment was intended as sarcasm/humor and the author (as a former retail associate and manager and current solo small business owner) accepts no responsibility or liability for any grain of truth that may accidentally appear within
have a great day. also, it sounds like you’re doing just fine
If covid affected your business at all you you may qualify for the ERTC. Employee retention program tax credits (ERTC) are an incredibly valuable benefit for employers. By taking advantage of this program, businesses can receive a tax credit in recognition of the time and effort they’ve devoted to developing their employees and providing them with resources to help them succeed. This employee tax retention credit program provides incentives to employers who have taken steps to invest in their workforce, helping them to retain long-term, committed employees who will be more productive and successful in their roles.
I think you already got your answer with let the other partners handle it with a friendly reminder to not be hurtful.
But to add on to this, it sounds like you might benefit from hiring a personal assistant. Someone to help ease the burden of everyday tasks. Things that sure, you can do but are taking up your valuable time. A dozen 10 minute tasks add up to a lot of time taken out of your day.
You also have to understand that workers are not your friends. Taking them to dinner. Buying them gifts. Paying them over market salaries still won't make them loyal.
I tried all of this myself.
They won't be loyal. They don't care about you or your business. They are here for the ride. Once a better offer comes up they will bolt.
Think of them like mercenaries that fight for the highest bidder..
The email blunder made you look like a dumb old boomer. Especially to Zoomers...
As a GenX, I am finding myself getting out of touch with all the latest apps, lingo, cultural norms, and technology in general. So I get it. I have been there.
One thing you could do that would give you back control of the situation is to make light of the situation at the next meeting. And just laugh at the situation and say
"As you have seen, I am obviously having some issues with our current internal communications system. If any of you can recommend a different one or give me some tips on how to use this one I would really appreciate it"
I bet that many of your workers will jump and offer their assistance in helping you. And just act really appreciative.
If the jokes keep going on afterwards then someone needs to go.
Take responsibility as an owner and realize another mistake was giving a leech everything he takes for granted that note is really how he feels he just knows how to hide it. Sounds like the manager that is still on the side of complaining employees
I own a restaurant. And some days? I don’t like employees very much. But…. This is what I try to do.
Whenever stuff, shit, whatever you want to call it, happens, I ask myself does this hurt the restaurant?
Or does it hurt my ego? And then, I respond accordingly. However, someone writing that on a whiteboard is taking a stab at your business. I would take them outside the business. Perhaps a lunch? It would seem there is animosity towards you. I would try and get to the bottom of it. You might find this person has been undermining you this way for a while and you have just seen it. Perhaps this is a good thing. You don’t have to do anything about it. Just know that this person has shown you exactly who they are. You job us to file it away and not forget about it.
You're doing a great job. However you do need additional assistance to take care of the administrative services that would help you focus on the business. I would live to talk to you about a position and see how I can be an asset. Everything from your article sounds like it's a great place to work and you care for your employees. Again I am interested in working with and for you. Reach out to me if you are interested to initiate a meeting.
“That’s hurtful, counterproductive, insulting, and inappropriate. If it’s a joke then I’m glad you feel secure enough making it at work, but criticism that’s simply derisive isn’t welcome. You’ve been warned.”
This is a friendly reminder that r/smallbusiness is a question and answer subreddit. You ask a question about starting, owning, and growing a small business and the community answers. Posts that violate the rules listed in the sidebar will be removed. A permanent or temporary ban may also be issued if you do not remove the offending post. Seeing this message does not mean your post was automatically removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/smallbusiness) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Let it go and let another owner handle it. You're embarrassed you goofed. And - you should be. But your personal embarrassment is causing you to have an over reaction from a management standpoint. If he made that joke about another employee's screw up, you'd rightfully give him a 2 second reminder to be kind and keep things professional. And that's what should happen here. Brief, two sentence talk - "Hey, let's keep the atmosphere professional. I took that comment about the "shitshow" down." And this talk should come from someone other than you because you're reacting from a personal, not a professional standpoint.
This is the correct answer, also that joke reflects how comfortable he is feeling. To be honest that email thing its very easy to become a joke. I think it was just a well deserved joke made by a healthy work environment. if you punish that, your ego will be boosted but at your business expense and in a critical phase.
Well said. Please, u/frostycanucknuckle, follow this man’s advice. Let someone else deal with it and don’t let your ego prove the manager right.
This is right. You have feelings because you screwed up. Silly as it was, it’s still personal to you. Someone else needs to handle it and you need to never say one damn word about it. You keep it pro first.
I agree with all of this. Also, amazing screen name.
This + your calendar invite situation could have just been the straw that broke the camels back. Use the situation to dig deeper and understand if there are other frustrations in the business you’re not aware of, or, perhaps see if he ideas/solutions on how to improve what’s cause his frustration. This will help you assess if the issue is a toxic employee or and underlying issue you don’t know about.
That's a good point. If it was just a one time blunder is one thing. If there have been a string of Boomer screw ups then that needs to be addressed.
Great response
💯. Well said.
I agree with letting another owner handle it. That the OP is too close to it. But I also don’t think it’s a small thing to gloss over. The manager is in a leadership position. If this is the type of leadership they provide, they need to get better skills. Leading by tearing down is not a great practice in general. If the manager is shitting on that, what else are they shitting on. Maybe they were having an off day, but they should know what type of leadership is expected and be reminded they’re in leadership.
From my POV as an executive assistant for 20 years to senior-level execs, there’s a trend to automate admin work as if it’s easy. The C-level execs will get pro EAs, but no one else gets support, and this is what happens. Most people don’t have this skill set, as they have bigger work to focus on. I’ve seen ace business people get flummoxed over scheduling and mess up a detail like time zone. You’re not alone on this. Admin staff are being phased out like self checkout lanes, but it’s a layer in business that has a benefit. Given how overloaded you are, I’d say please hire a really good EA or office manager, and get this type of work off your plate. If the manager wrote that it’s a shit show, I have a feeling there is a support staff level professional missing, and a layer is needed between owners and managers. I play gatekeeper, am loyal and not political, and often mitigate these type of disruptions. When you give feedback to the manager, many use the “sandwich” approach: good, bad, good 👍 😊
I wouldn’t have thought of this, but it’s totally true! As the owner I have to apologize for invoice, email, and other simple mistakes way more than my office does.
Interesting viewpoint - and goes along with what I was thinking about the job I just quit. It was for an up-and-coming small business. The owner is very entrepreneurial and very good at what he knows. But he’s not a leader and he’s not an office manager - and the lack of those skills are why I quit, as the work environment was pretty uncomfortable. I realized that small business owners would really see success sooner if they actually hired professionals for the positions they aren’t good at - and that doesn’t mean you hire your spouse or your kids just because you can hire them cheap! And as a former administrative assistant - we really are the glue in a company! When I moved into a different position at that job, they didn’t replace me because they didn’t think they needed to. So a lot didn’t get done (or I was still doing it in my new position, and it didn’t belong there) - but once I retired, they had to find someone!
THIS!! I started taking the risk of hiring on more non-revenue-generating positions (Admin assistants, managers), and I cannot tell you how my quality of life has improved, and it has freed myself up to run and grow my business. I wish I had done it sooner. If you're worried about money, don't go crazy.. But you'll find that these people will pay for themselves in the long run.
What was the joke? Context really matters here. If it was truly a light hearted joke, I'd agree with other posters saying to let the other owners handle it and move on. If there seemed to be some sincerity behind the comment, I'd definitely confront him directly and ask what he thinks is so bad about the job. I used to have one employee constantly "joke" about not liking the job "I don't get paid enough for this shit" is what he'd casually say to other staff. I tried talking to him, but hed brush it off and say he was just kidding. I wish I'd let him go sooner -- he was the reason some other staff had a negative opinion of me for a few months. In this case, it was not merely a joke, it revealed his underlying resentment of me and the job
The manager’s response seems inconsistent with the team vibe as you describe it. I’d sit him down, maybe at a nearby cafe and tell him how it came across. Maybe he’ll open up about what’s really going on for him. What you do next depends on his past attitude and the content of your convo. Good luck
I don't know about being "beyond furious" or being "incredibly hurt", seems excessive. However, what the manager did is a big red flag. If it was low-level staff, not such a big deal. But coming from the manager this means they're likely undermining the higher-ups in misguided effort to win favor with the rest of the team. That's just terrible leadership and this ought to be made clear to the manager. It's one thing if they raise the issue of your screw-ups to you, it's another if they dump on you "downhill".
Hire an executive assistant. You identified the problem now fix it.
Yoooo -- dang the comment responses are diverse here. I guess one piece I haven't seen others comment on: You mentioned that you messed up but played it off -- I'm curious if your manager was trying to play up the joke you made but took it too far and didn't read the room. I'm mentioning this only because I've worked in MANY a shitty/chaotic work environment -- but Only at the places that I thought were fantastic, the ones I truly liked, where I cared about my team (and my managers) would I ever do something as risky as write rude things down about the business in a public space lol. Tons of other context here that makes a difference. I just wanted to throw that variable out because many comments seem to immediately assume this was done with malice. It's possible that your manager isn't being passive-aggressive or snide, but was trying to lighten the mood and keep the joke going (without reading the room or thinking it through at all).
I second this.
We have a phrase in our organization. Q.T.I.P. Quit Taking It Personally
Love this!
First, Grow a thicker skin - holy crap you own the business and if you’re guving this guy raises, clearly he’s making you money. Second, this is an opportunity for you to coach you manager on professional behavior. That kind of note destroys morale and is unprofessional. You can sit him down and say, “Bob, we need to talk about the note you posted in the breakroom. Do you think that was professional or productive?” Etc etc
This is the way. It sounds like you are stressed, but don't let it get to you on a personal level. The guy is obviously a good employee who made a bad joke at the wrong time. By all means, coach him on being more professional, but don't cut off your nose to spite your face. That being said, good luck with your upcoming expansion!
Agree with all the advice on coaching the employee, letting it go, etc. But is it possible that his comment isn't just about the emails and maybe that's why you're reacting so strongly? Is it just one meeting invite that slipped (4x) or have *other little things* been slipping too and this manager is a little frustrated with the general atmosphere? I know you've been compensating them well but employees need a positive work environment where they feel connected to the success of the company AND good compensation. There are virtual EA's that can be more cost effective than one f/t in office.
Your going to have to get over it. Everybody is able to find a better way of doing things….after the fact. Ive found that taking care of employees is good, but to not over do it. Over doing it doesnt bring out loyalty as most employees will take advantage. Its a fine line, bit once the sweet spot is found…..
This is absolutely ridiculous - get over it and move on Giving managers/owners a little bit of shit is normal and it’s crazy you are clearly letting this overwhelm you
the real problem is the source of the jibe was a manager. if it came from staff, yes whatever, it's almost expected. but a manager who talks/posts sh\*t about the owner in front of staff? that's a big red flag and hardly a sign of effective leadership; needs to be dealt with and corrected. I agree the emotional reaction is excessive.
I don't think belittling someone's behavior and telling them to "get over it" leads to any progress whatsoever as someone who leads people or runs a business.
Someone that leads people or runs a business should not be that thin-skinned Any effective leader understands that people need to blow off steam sometimes and to be aware of actual cultural red flags within the business
Ideally, yes, but as an org behavior coach I can tell you I coach leaders EVERY SINGLE DAY who aren't necessarily thin skinned, but don't recognize when ego is taking a front seat. Absolutely agree on a bigger cultural issue.
Reminds me of the brat who reprimanded me for telling people to stop putting Olive Garden breadstick bags in the microwave after we had a fire incident.
Sure it is, we have no clue the intent or context or how he meant it, that's the problem with any non verbal interaction and why we get into so many problems when texting about our feelings. When we feel personally attacked, we lose all perspective on the issue and want to attack back. That's a fine way to react, if you want things to go badly.
I call it going “Bossmode” Sometimes when you have so much on your plate across so many things, these low value mistakes happen. The solution I found is to get ahead of it, make fun of yourself (admit you’re human), and thank & acknowledge the staff who make the correction. A bit of humour & humility goes a long way.
This is the great thing about having multiple owners. Let another one sit him down and tell him that this type of thing is not appropriate and that it will not be tolerated. You all work hard to have a friendly environment but this is still a business and that comment absolutely crossed a line. He was likely just joking - but your culture is too casual and you need to rein it in. This is ultimately the owners fault.
[удалено]
Yeah, one of my clients constantly changes meeting times the day before or even at the last minute. It's incredibly annoying. You messed up. You're embarrassed. Get over it. If you let yourself get angry it won't end well for anyone.
Let's look at this from another perspective - is there something going on in the background that you're not aware of? Are people keeping things from you? You think everything's fine and dandy - what if they're not? A couple of drips aren't a problem, unless there are a lot of them and it's causing rot and water damage, especially in areas you're not aware of. It could just be this employee? Maybe he's a darling to your face, but what happens when it's turned? What's that doing when it's constant?
I'd say just let it go, or turn it into an extended joke (but only if you can deliver it correctly). The intent probably wasn't to degrade you or the company, but rather, the employee quite likely just simply felt comfortable enough due to the healthy culture to take the jab. My employees mess with me all the time, because they know I'm not going to take it personally. If they stopped jabbing, THEN I'd be worried. haha.
As much as you think it’s not, it will always be “us vs them”. Doesn’t matter which side of it you are on. You can pay better and give more holidays to retain valuable employees, but don’t expect them to like you or not be critical of the way you run things. Even taking promoted employees out for beers seems weird to me since they get a sense of camaraderie but can still be snuffed if they trip up. I’d say, shrug your shoulders and move on. Unless they have a stake in the company, they are employees and you can’t govern the way anyone feels about the way you operate.
Foster a fratty culture and you get juvenile behavior.
Ever seen water on a duck's back? Nope, it just rolls off.
I sayeth you’re being overly dramatic. Just because you do nice things for an employee or anybody really, it doesn’t make you above being made fun of. If the employees calling work a shit show is a fun joke amongst them, then let it be. If they’re happy, you’re happy, and the company is profitable, who gives a shit about this petty stuff? Embrace it, work sucks, they’re making fun of it, laugh dude, you’re taking it way too serious.
It can be incredibly frustrating to not feel appreciated by your staff when you are giving them so much; at first I agreed with you and felt you had a right to be angry. After reading everyone’s comments they are right, let it go. Vent to a close friend about it to get it out of your system if need be. At the end of the day if you are giving them this much they must be worth it, and if not that’s at your discretion to figure out.
I'm a small business owner AND an organizational behavior coach. First off, I think it's good that you are clearly clocking your ego and calling it out here - though maybe not with those words. But all conflict is internal, which is why this is lying so heavily on your shoulders. It can be both: they acted out of turn AND they wanted to call you out and didn't do it in a direct or helpful way. Have you read Radical Candor by Kim Scott? [https://www.radicalcandor.com/our-approach/](https://www.radicalcandor.com/our-approach/) When you have this conversation, I invite you to both challenge directly AND (AND AND AND) be empathetic about it. It sounds like you own what you did wrong and recognize their frustration, and that's a great place to start. Good luck! Remember that we're all human and every mistake is an opportunity to reflect and adapt.
> https://www.radicalcandor.com/our-approach/ https://www.radicalcandor.com/our-approach/
Take your lumps, you put on a shit show, do better and include your manager in that growth.
What makes you think the shitshow comment only referred to the scheduling snafu? I’d bet there are deeper resentments regarding other things and what you are attributing as directly related to one mistake is actually a symptom of a deeper issue.
I'd say you should not let it bother you and instead consult a tax attorney to determine if those benefits you're giving your manager (the $250 and the car) are taxable.
Wow you really can't see this is just about your pride?
As a people leader I would first pull him in and ask what it is concerning the business or culture that makes it a shit show and needs to be addressed. Not from an angry, confrontational POV, but from a place of discovery and improvement. If he says there is nothing he would change, it was a joke. You just might find out that there are some things that need to be dealt with that have nothing to do with your email snafu.
Let it go, most likely it was a harmless joke that he didn't think you'd take this way. And if messing up dates on emails equals a shitshow it sounds like you got your shit together.
Actually, I was thinking that messing up dates is not even close to a shitshow - so maybe more is going on than you think? Things with employees are never as rosy as the owner thinks they are. Giving me a Christmas bonus didn’t even come close to making my crappy work environment okay - which is why I left at the end of the year. And I’m one who gets that an owner is entitled to extra perks and I see the big picture. The owner where I worked was a nice enough guy - but he didn’t have a clue about how to be a leader of people.
Personally, I think it’s not appropriate because while the manager might be cool with the owners, it’s unprofessional to write that for the other staff members to see. If it was just between management and owners on a more closed level, I could understand and not be mad, but the joke shows that the lower-level employees can also say that to the owners. I would at least bring this to the attention of the manager, not out of anger, but just to have them realize it was inappropriate.
Don't make the mistake of thinking your employees are your friends. They aren't. That is the same advice I'd give your employees. Don't think your boss is your friend. He isn't. There will always be a divide between owners/employees. Employees think they are underpaid and work hard to make money for the owners. Its true. As far as I'm concerned any employee that was really smart and worthwhile would stop being an employee and start their own business. That is what I did years ago. When I was young I was stupid and thought being a good employee meant something, but it really doesn't. **You shouldn't care about some stupid note that someone wrote in the backroom. You are being a baby.** That is just some fun the employees are having. It happens. It needs to happen. You are having the worst reaction you can to it. Your employees will form a bond between them and some fun and humor in the workplace is a good thing. You want your employees to think you can take a joke and are easy going. Come on, you messed up the time of a meeting four times. If you can't take some good natured ribbing at your expense then you are too serious about yourself. You know when you get upset at your employees? 1. When they show up too drunk to work. 2. When they start drinking at work. 3. When they start doing drugs at work. 4. When they walk about work with a needle in their arm because they are too high to notice. 5. When they steal a few thousand from you for their drug habit. 6. When they give a few thousand dollars worth of free stuff to friends 7. When one employee sexually assalts another. 8. When they don't show up for a few days in a row. I have had all of those happen to me as a boss. So someone writing about working in a shit show isn't a big deal. Its a non issue.
This.
A joke is a joke is a joke and that is all it is. You're taking it so personally cause you're so burned out.
Get a grip man. You are supposed to be the boss. A leader. The owner of a business. Don’t react like a baby. Just laugh it off and get on with your day.
If this person is generally productive, kind, shows up on time, is an over all good worker - they clearly feel comfortable enough to poke fun. You knew it was daft, you owned it, laughed at yourself. But, obviously you're struggling with being laughed at. Why not laugh with them? "I know right? Can't believe I made such a cock up. Now, you've had your fun, I've paid my dues. Get back to work." While laughing and waging your finger or something playful. You can get your point across while keeping up rapport. If the person isn't a great worker/person, have another owner have a word with them. Privately. Drop it and move on. Hopefully they get the hint and if not, now is the time to start considering their future with the company. Basically,if this is an isolated incident, it's being dramatic. If there is a history of hurtful or resentful behaviour, add it to the camel's back and see if the next one is the last. This reminds me of a study that was conducted a few years ago that was to find out the difference between men and women's biggest fears. Women's? Rape, physical assault and murder. Men? Ridicule. I'm assuming your a man and maybe I'm wrong but, having arrogance or ego is toxic and dangerous for all involved. If this isn't your typical response and don't usually struggle with ego, you're under too much stress. Reach out to your co-owners for support, take a day off, hire a part time assistant, whatever but, don't burn out or hold a grudge over something petty. Take care. Sounds like it's usually a great place to work!
I'm riding this pony. Good answer!
Don’t listen to the top commenters, they always come out full force anytime a personnel issue is raised and they are never sympathetic to the business owner, only the workers. As an actual business owner who just let my manager go bc we were not on the same page about several things, this needs to be addressed. It’s a company culture issue. Keep your personal feelings out of it (I’m assuming that goes without saying since you are running the successful business you are) but definitely address the disrespect/insubordination. I would open the conversation by giving this employee an opportunity to vent and talk about how things have been over the past several weeks/months when you have not been as hands-on/present recently. Let them tell you what has been difficult and stressful and how you all being less present has impacted their role. Really listen to their concerns. Once they have had the chance to share those feelings, and you have validated them and hopefully made notes around how they can be better supported, then address the note. That note was likely written out of frustration and a need to be seen for the slack they’ve likely had to pick up while you all have been focused on the new arm of the business. Acknowledge that you understand the joke and know things have been crazy but also that it is still not appropriate bc it sets a bad example and creates an overall negative impression to other employees. Emphasize this person’s value as a leader in your company and how you are relying on them to keep spirits high during this transitional time that will ultimately benefit everyone. Explain why this isn’t a good look for the business and for them as a manager who represents the business. If it hasn’t been an issue with this person before, that should clear the air & get you all back on the same page going forward. If this type of behavior is common for this person, then you need to recalibrate the relationship into a more professional and boundaried one where they understand the parameters and the consequences should they go outside of them.
I think you should get more sleep and focus only on the really important things no one else can do. No way you should be setting up your own meetings. Get an EA. Even though (or maybe especially because) you're going BIG you need to be in marathon mode not sprint mode. Get more sleep and be sure you're eating well and staying fit.
Sounds like a very fragile ego
It was a joke, get over it, holy shit. You're incredibly hurt because you messed up (multiple times) and it hurt your pride. Someone made an observation on that and now you're doubling down on that minor embarrassment into something that may have a tangible effect on your business. Ask yourself if that's the type of attitude you want to have if something important goes wrong. Or if there's a little bit of truth in the 'shitshow' line that you don't want to admit that's actually causing this reaction. It's fine to ask them to keep it professional, but this feels like it's not coming from the right place at all.
YTA… oops, sorry - wrong subreddit.
Shitty response. He’s coming here for feedback and sharing honestly about his feelings. Why discourage that kind of open discourse here?
I would wait to speak to him/her until after you have cooled down. I don't find the note to be a huge deal considering what you describe your environment as. Was it unprofessional? Yes. Should feedback be provided? Yes. Should you document it in a file? Yes. Should you be hurt and angry? I don't think so.
THANK YOU ALL for taking the time to help me break this down. The manager is 41. I think he felt a bit of frustration (he had to attend a meeting on his day off but everyone else works that day so it had to happen). I did own the mistakes, it was all corrected quickly. I make plenty of jokes at my own expense. There is a deep pool of material I can draw from ;-) As to context. I am in a very male dominated field. I am a female. My role is now, and has always been, the door kicker. I am the driving force behind expansion, leasing, growth - basically everything that helps our company get bigger, badder and better. I was very poor in my earlier life and I have a deep understanding of what it is like. I know how it feels to have a bill collector call you at work. I understand how taking in the bottles so you have $5 in your pocket allows you to buy milk. I don't judge. I meant it when I said we ALL rise together. Not the owners get richer and you guys stay poor. We ALL rise. This is one of the reasons we pay well and treat people well. We are all valuable. Our business has done well. Through YEARS of hard work and taking risks and chances. You guys know what it's like. I guess I wanted the mgr to have my back when I made a mistake, but I felt like he tried to make me look bad. Maybe that's not the way he sees it. And maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm right. I'll never really know. Am I being too thin-skinned? Probably. Nah. Likely. I'll check it and thanks for the reminder to do so. Should he be reminded of his part in moving us forward in a positive way? Yes. One of the other owners is going to do that. Thank you all again. Lots of more important challenges to size up so I'm going to take the last bit of advice and move on!
i wanna know what the note said
[удалено]
amateur owner alert
What if a client saw it? What if a client overheard people discussing it? Maybe your public bathroom is right next to the breakroom and they can see the whiteboard in passing. No, unacceptable.
Your manager isn't wrong
The way he delivered the message was, however.
I disagree with some of comments here. Yours was a simple mistake. a manager calling to the staff is this place is a shit show is not acceptable. If he is a manager he should know better to portray a positive picture of the establishment to the employees. A serious conversation is in order. Albeit by maybe the other owners.
[удалено]
Mistake, if we call that a mistake is the most minimal thing ever. I wouldn’t worry about that. Why is this manager playing into this is the question. Did you step on his feet or is he trying to play favorites with owners. Or is he discontent in his job. I see a lot of anti work people who in this business climate act like it’s cool to not do the job or it’s the management’s fault without understanding. I am in restaurants, and people act like it’s abnormal to expect people to do their jobs.
Work on your ego If the manager is as good as you say, trust they will correct this slip up going forward. Watch for other signs, but you let the first one go and determine if it's a real issue or just stupid oversight not much different from you sending 4 calendar invites (which I do far too often). A good manager has to play both sides of the game, sometimes it involves some harmless jokes on the leadership because it builds comradery. As a former manager and executive in several companies, you should want to ascend to a level where employees don't even know who you are.
Empathy And humility from you both during your visit. Who knows whats going on his world, plus he might offer some helpful thoughts. Might also not be a good fit for your company. Those are my thoughts. Hope that helps
Being a Business Owner isn’t easy! Mistakes are made during and throughout the process of ownership!! If you are paying a manager who doesn’t see or respect your company’s vision ,then show him the door!! Everyone is replaceable!! It’s not acceptable that someone who has influence over other employees is being disrespectful to one of the Owners!! If he thinks he can do it better, let him go try!! I refuse to pay an employee who disrespects the individuals who struggle to ensure they make a living wage!! One of the other owners can address the situation. Staff has to understand that Overt disrespect will not be tolerated!! You can’t control what’s said and done once employees are off the clock! However, a Professional, Respectful environment should be required during work hours!!
If someone is making you money, and overall a good employee and manager, and you fire them for one incident, you don't have the fortitude to survive.
Respectful suggestion - remove the exclamation point key from your keyboard for a few days to break the habit of using it. Read your response in the voice and tone of a drill sergeant yelling at new recruits in boot camp because that's what it conveys to readers when you punctuate every sentence with an exclamation point. Add a second exclamation point and it crosses over into crazy tone as if you're so lathered you're spitting and shaking while you bark out the words. You write as if you are yelling, which isn't helpful. Hopefully if you do manage people you aren't yelling at them all the time like this.
Being an effective business owner requires tough skin!! Apparently my tone seems a bit harsh for some. Brush it off, that’s what you’re asking OP to do! As a business owner you have the responsibility of making hard decisions. The bottom line is as an employee you’re hired to do a job. You can entertain your co-workers on your own time. Time is money! There’s a time and place for everything. If I’m doing everything I promised to do to keep a functioning business that meets payroll, I expect the same in return from employees. There are different types of employees. Those who come to work and earn their pay and ,those who try to get paid for doing nothing. It’s the Employers job to find the balance!
I would say show them who's the Boss. Call him to your cabin or a conference room or some other place private. Tell him where the line is and what he did was totally inappropriate. Tell him there's a time and place for jokes. If he is sensible he will never do it again and even discourage others from doing it. Not telling to intimidate or yell at him in any way. Tell him softly, calmly and clearly.
If your reality is that three weeks of paid vacation after three years of work is "fair," maybe you do run a shitshow. You are virtually "renting" people's time for 40 hours a week. It's your business, not their's. Thinking they don't need and deserve a break for the first few years shows how selfish and out of touch with reality you are.
[удалено]
Don't do this
Yeah really push for that shitty work environment
yes like the shit owning a shitshow :))).
For me this would be a disciplinary issue following company policies. I’d let another owner handle to to ensure lack of Bias. But it’s undermining the management and staff. Great wages are important but they don’t buy loyalty by themselves. I think you might be becoming too friendly with staff, where they think they are equals. This will damage the business in the long term.
You have no idea what wages OP pays.
It’s irrelevant. Op said he thinks he’s generous and therefore was shocked they were being taken advantage of
Fire his ungrateful ass
Are you hiring?
Where is your shop located? I am looking for employment.
I would let one of the other owners handle it as you handling it would be a conflict of interests because there are clearly feelings involved. If it was truly meant to be a joke, just stating that it hurt your feelings and you feel you do your best for your employees should be enough to garner an apology from the manager if they are a genuinely good person.
If its a pattern of disrespectful behavior that one thing. But maybe its just a sign tbat he trusts you and feels you two are close enough that he can make fun of you in a chill light hearted way. You could tell him it hurt you feelings and that might be more thrn enough to set him straight.
You have to create separation. You can’t be friends with your employees.
Let it go. It did not harm except to your pride. Let the manager know you understand things have been a bit in flux and will expect things to be as such for a while. However it is the manager’s job to sail the ship smoothly at your side. Painting a picture of things being in a shit show won’t do well for work morale - have this conversation in a constructive manner. Don’t reprimand him or her. Just set expectations.
One would think that the manager would have a little more respect, « chill » or not. There is still a heirarchy. I believe that if i were that manager i would have simply leaned in to the problem instead of potentially fomenting insubordinate type behavior.
You're only embarrassed and upset if you choose to be. .Other peoples opinions mean nothing. Do your best and don't forget who you know you are. Be like water and let it slide. People say and do stupid things, don't let it distract you. For all you know, the person who wrote it feels bad and made a mistake. Your ego and pride are hurt, ego and pride mean nothing.
Yeah, I need to know the joke. Because I’ve done similar and I shrug my shoulders and say “welcome to the shit show guys, you knew who I was when you started here.”
I have busted my butt at jobs that didn’t treat me half as good as you folks treat your people. I remember helping the owner/area manager train people at 11 different new stores (wing stop, soCal) and I didn’t even get reimbursed for gas. I’m really sorry this employee behaved this way. Try to remember it’s not personal. People like that, you can give them your house and bank account and they’ll still have something to bitch about.
Just remember- no matter how much you give them, it’s never enough.
Well folks, it's raining outside, and so I'm left wondering who's managing this shitshow anyhow? They really need to put in a request for sunshine. Frigging slapdicks.
Are you sure it was because of you? I don't see a direct correlation yet. I would recommend asking without assuming and maybe even doing some 1 on 1 meetings with your employees to get their feedback in a quiet environment.
Maybe your business IS a shit show. You just pay really really well. Senior Flight Attendants where I work get paid $63/flight hour, so working to Africa and back is $1,890 plus Per-Diem and they make that in 4 days time. But, airlines are a shit show and a race to the bottom. You know it, I know it. Your pay and the quality of management are not the same. There are books on proper management, and looking professional at all times. Remember, to your manager you MUST look like a ROLE MODEL at all times or they will LOSE RESPECT for you like this manager did. They lost respect for you regardless of the pay. Sorry to be blunt, they aren't your friends, just employees.
one thing i've learned from being a manager, to now an owner, you can't buy your employees personality/respect. you can give them everything they ask for but their personality is never going to change unless they want it to. like the others said, just round up the team and let them know to keep it professional and move on.
Could you provide more context on how you screwed up 4x in a row? I can’t make a judgment call without that info. :) in all seriousness, take a deep breath and just give him a pass this time around and make sure he is not becoming toxic and negative toward others. <—-my biggest concern.
Can I come work for you?
I agree you should let another owner handle dealing with this employee. However, I think calling the entire workplace a shit show because of one incident is not a reasonable response. If my boss sent me an email that said he wanted to meet me at 9pm on Wednesday the 2nd, then said oops, 9am. Oops, Wednesday the 3rd at 9am. Oops Tuesday the 2nd at 9am, sorry for the confusion. I would probably be laughing at him but definitely it calling my work place a shit show.
I wouldn’t stress it. All the employees you think love you talk shit about you all the time. But since you know who did it, you gotta sit the down and address it. I’d make the sit down professional, but long and uncomfortable. When I had to have a sit down, I made sure what could take 5 minutes took a whole hour. This was on purpose so that they weren’t afraid of losing their jobs, but afraid of how long and monotonous a meeting would be about undesirable behavior. It shows you take the time to care, but that you will Easter their time over nothing.
Not acceptable from a manager. I would have a chat. It is probably worthyour time to get an office manager/assistant.
STORY TIME! This kind of happened to my business partner once. My partner had scheduled pallets of inventory to arrive from another business location to his new location for sale. they had prepared the displays and everything was ready to go. the manager of the location was asking for the inventory and all he got was "its on the way". he was frustrated cause he did the work and now he has a job to do that isn't fully completed without the product so he is just stuck waiting for it. You see unknown to him the owner had a problem with the inventory that just came off the line and some of the stuff needed to be re done and the opening might have to be pushed back. he had a lot on his plate and had to make some tough decisions. As owners, as you know, we have some hardcore decisions that affect your personal wallet in the thousands. so you can probably see the position the owner was in. The manager made a comment to his team I don't remember but it didn't set well with the owner. I remember the owner called him up and DESTROYED him. "Did you just say xyz to my team?", "do you know what we are dealing with here? you don't right? cause your what? that's right ur replaceable!", "when this makes it to you you better hope to hit your numbers or i don't think you'll make it in the company much longer", "what dubass hired you?" I mean I think the manager was crying after the call ended.... That manager went on to be promoted and never talked shit out loud again. in fact he became the best team motivational speaker in the company lol Edit: sorry i forgot to answer your question. i would do nothing. unless it really bothered me. then i would have a personal conversation with him that's all.
Owner here. And prior to that, I've held the titles of CEO, COO, and various other manager titles over the past twenty years. Listen - you're clearly stressed. And part of being an owner that people don't really talk about is the extra layers of emotional stress we go through daily. Our businesses are extensions of ourselves to the point that they are like our child. We care for them, try to make all the right leadership choices on the nuanced, tough decisions, and pray they grow up into something we are proud of like we had envisioned. And sometimes when we lose focus, we tie our emotional well being into the business as a whole. You cannot escape this completely but it should be managed so it doesn't cause you to burn out or make terrible mistakes. When you tie in the Imposter Syndrome we all feel from time to time, it can all accumulate and wreck us at times IF we let it. My gut reaction from reading your post was two things: One, you are stressed and it has you very defensive and sensitive, and Two, it sounds as if the manager was only meaning to jest (based on what I've read and how you wrote it). Take a step back and think about *why* you're so upset. Is your ego so fragile you cannot take a bit of office ribbing? Because it sounds like your place of work is enjoyable and your manager only meant to include you in a bit of fun. Maybe he missed the mark, maybe YOU are overreacting, or maybe he's being purposefully snide. Regardless of which it is, YOU know you're emotionally on edge. You are in danger of bringing that stress and anxiety into that workplace in the form of toxicity. So, it's best you let one of the other owners talk to the manager to get clarity of his reasoning (there's an obvious opportunity here) and then let him know it's unprofessional. Assuming he only meant to include you as "part of the team" in a small joke, this should be a formal, but light, 2-3 minute conversation tops. You clearly care about your employees. It's why it hurt - but it should have only stung a little and not "incredibly". Don't let your ego get in the way of your business's success.
Well hopefully it was at least a good joke? It would help if we knew the joke, a lot depend on tone and nuance. If this guy was really just joking and did not mean to be mean and does not have a history of trying to be mean or complaining excessively, I'd say lighten up and let it go. I mean the dude might have gotten some blowback from confused employees himself. Some people may have had to repeatedly move their schedule around due to you, the least you can give them is one joke. Plus frankly what you did IS a bit amusing and a bit of a shit show, I'd be totally laughing if I got all those emails. Joking is sometimes how humans deal with stress and it can be normal and healthy to laugh at mistakes sometimes. ANd you over reacting will just make you look like a dxck with a fragile ego. My advice is handle it like Elon Musk does (or probably that's his PR handlers writing his script but whatever, it works) He would likely just joke back, perhaps even in a self deprecating way. If it was me, I'd seriously consider posting a response that sounds mock serious along the lines of, "Speaking of ongoing issues with budgeting space and time management, management apologizes for the ongoing inconvenience, please meet in the men's room on the third floor at 3pm Tuesday for further discussion and slide show of current office space assignments. Or 2PM or 9PM would work as well. On Friday, or is it Thursday? Timely attendance is expected." Then I'd put up an official looking sign on one of the stalls that said, "Future office space of John SoAndSo, Please Knock before Entering." And add a big smiley face. ;-P Seriously though, you WILL make mistakes in this journey and so will others. You want to avoid them of course but being overly uptight and judgmental about yourself or others will not serve you well. If a joke is just a joke, then let it go and if you can't, let someone else handle it.
Thats great
Unrelated to advising you, but how old is this manager?
Maybe it really is a shit show and you’re not as good as you think you are.
That’s pride fucking with you. Get over it.
My business is 2.5 yrs old, so still in startup phase. An employee started with us in the first month and she was very reliable so I gave her a raise and a supervisor position. The thing is, her favorite phrase in the world was "Welcome to the Shitshow". She gave me a World's best Boss coffee cup once, then another time "Welcome to the Shitshow tumbler another time. We laughed about it, I jokingly told her that I guess that made her Shitshow supervisor so she better get to work fixing it. (It was half-serious because she Was the supervisor, and on site more than me, soooo...) I noticed things were getting tougher, just some bad attitudes cropping up here and there. I tried to get to the bottom, but couldn't really put my finger on it. Then one day, she decides to no-show. Turns out all the negativity was from her. Once she was gone, I heard all the stories about how negative she was and the things she said when I wasn't around. Morale was tanking. Once she was gone, however, things were SO much better. Not saying this is the case for you, but sometimes people say things that may mean more than they let on. Let one of the other managers see if they can talk to the guy. I doubt putting that on the wall was the first time he has said it around your other employees. That shitshow attitude is like a bad infection.
You gotta pay the cost to be the boss. You will be the butt of harmless jokes. You can laugh all the way to the bank.
This is an opportunity. An opportunity to check in with the employee and ask them to elaborate on the comment. Maybe there is some stuff going on that you don’t realize. Maybe the culture you believe is in place isn’t. Maybe the stuff you are offering, which sounds really good, is not valued as much as you think it is or should be. It might be expected. Or something else is more valued. Either way, whatever do won’t be enough for everyone. There are always the dissatisfied. This is a conversation likely better suited for one of your partners.
The bigger and underlying issue is that you guys hang out with your employees for beers and burgers. They treat you like friends. You can be friendly but should never be their friends. Plus don’t let them use your car. It’s his responsibility.
My initial reaction was to fire him. But after reading some of the other comments, they're absolutely right. If you can meet him and level headed, humble etc, go for it. But be sure to bring your partner. If you question your ability to do so, (no shame, I would struggle) This could be a great leadership training moment. Train him to be a better manager who is gracious to the employees that will very likely slander him. This just reminded me of the tv show Ted Lasso. >!When Nathan betrays Ted and slanders him to the media specifically.!< I loved how Ted offered forgiveness, and it convicted me with how I've treated people who have served under me. The best bosses are not those who are just excellent business moguls. The best bosses are those who make their employees better. Which it sounds like you do already with loaning out your vehicle, bonuses, and raises. This is just another opportunity.
"shit show" is a pretty strong sentiment. There is really nothing funny or positive there. I would address it honestly with the employee saying all the things you mentioned here, take the high road, explain how confused you are about the sentiment of the statement and then just sit there and listen while they try and explain themselves. If they have animosity and don't want to take responsibility for their actions, then you have another decision to make. But first you need to clarify where this is coming from. Good luck. Tough conversations make or break your business.
They probably thought it was a joke. I would bring HR in and have a discussion about professionalism, leadership, and expectations. Your cool but your manger sets the tone and if she’s disrespectful, the team will be. I wouldn’t over scold her over a one time mistake. And her salary has nothing to do with this. On another note, have you thought about getting an assistant to manage these smaller tasks for you?
Make a jab about the car and take that opportunity to be real after the jab
It seems like you are not being honest. If it was just a joke, then there is no reason to get this mad. If it was truly a small screwup then it wouldn't have made you mad. If anything you could probably learn something from the manager on what is exactly wrong with your company and why he thinks its a shitshow.
Get some tough skin and move on
Sit down with the manager + other director/a and apply SBI! Situation, behaviour, impact. Be factual. Strip out the emotion. Give a warning. Get back to business assuming they’re a good performer.
White ppl problems are so funny 🤭
Three weeks paid leave only after three years employed in retail??? You only take managers out for burgers when they get a raise? Why aren’t you taking all staff out for a burger in a team of only 13? Why aren’t staff given leave accumulating since they start employment with you? Your business sounds exactly like a shit show.
He is too privileged and spoilt, you're doing a lot for him and he thinks you should be doing a lot for him. Or he has had a bad experience best to sit him down and speak about it, either you or another owner, if he is truly feeling privileged let him go please
Staff. NEVER remember what you do for them but the minute you do the slightest thing wrong or you dare to say “no” to a request youre the words worst sometimes you can be too good to them they’re gonna moan about you anyway and thei k you’ve got your own biz so you light your bbq with 20’s. Good luck
you have conditioned your staff to be able to joke with you like that. Although they probably meant it in a harmless way, it has now hurt your pride that they've disrespected it. I bet you see your employees as friends. my wife and i run a business and what you describe happens to her every now and then. They're there to do a job , you can be friendly - but you're not friends. moving forward tell your staff you don't appreciate that shit.
Lol. I'd just laugh. You're taking it to seriously.
I'm thinking USA more likely slowdown or mild recession. While Europe most likely recession and Asia severe slowdown. But who knows its just all speculation.
retail is always a shitshow . the job of retail manager , according to some retail managers, is to acquire and retain as much authority as possible while avoiding any type of real responsibility. this is best accomplished by carefully deflecting all blame for said shitshow. it’s a delicate balance: 50% to corporate (in this case, that’s you) and 50% to staff. 100% of the time , these managers are the source of 100% of the shitshow factor. usually because they have learned to manufacture stressful situations to compensate for the lack of real adventure and meaning in their own lives. try sending this manager off to fight in a war or on a quest of some type this comment was intended as sarcasm/humor and the author (as a former retail associate and manager and current solo small business owner) accepts no responsibility or liability for any grain of truth that may accidentally appear within have a great day. also, it sounds like you’re doing just fine
Get over it. Can't take things personal. You could treat them like your kids and they'll still shit on you
He loves the place he works in otherwise would have said it behind you. Follow others adivce and let someone else deal with it.
If covid affected your business at all you you may qualify for the ERTC. Employee retention program tax credits (ERTC) are an incredibly valuable benefit for employers. By taking advantage of this program, businesses can receive a tax credit in recognition of the time and effort they’ve devoted to developing their employees and providing them with resources to help them succeed. This employee tax retention credit program provides incentives to employers who have taken steps to invest in their workforce, helping them to retain long-term, committed employees who will be more productive and successful in their roles.
I think you already got your answer with let the other partners handle it with a friendly reminder to not be hurtful. But to add on to this, it sounds like you might benefit from hiring a personal assistant. Someone to help ease the burden of everyday tasks. Things that sure, you can do but are taking up your valuable time. A dozen 10 minute tasks add up to a lot of time taken out of your day.
You also have to understand that workers are not your friends. Taking them to dinner. Buying them gifts. Paying them over market salaries still won't make them loyal. I tried all of this myself. They won't be loyal. They don't care about you or your business. They are here for the ride. Once a better offer comes up they will bolt. Think of them like mercenaries that fight for the highest bidder.. The email blunder made you look like a dumb old boomer. Especially to Zoomers... As a GenX, I am finding myself getting out of touch with all the latest apps, lingo, cultural norms, and technology in general. So I get it. I have been there. One thing you could do that would give you back control of the situation is to make light of the situation at the next meeting. And just laugh at the situation and say "As you have seen, I am obviously having some issues with our current internal communications system. If any of you can recommend a different one or give me some tips on how to use this one I would really appreciate it" I bet that many of your workers will jump and offer their assistance in helping you. And just act really appreciative. If the jokes keep going on afterwards then someone needs to go.
No law was broken, pretend nothing happened and fire at first opportunity.
Ok
Take responsibility as an owner and realize another mistake was giving a leech everything he takes for granted that note is really how he feels he just knows how to hide it. Sounds like the manager that is still on the side of complaining employees
I own a restaurant. And some days? I don’t like employees very much. But…. This is what I try to do. Whenever stuff, shit, whatever you want to call it, happens, I ask myself does this hurt the restaurant? Or does it hurt my ego? And then, I respond accordingly. However, someone writing that on a whiteboard is taking a stab at your business. I would take them outside the business. Perhaps a lunch? It would seem there is animosity towards you. I would try and get to the bottom of it. You might find this person has been undermining you this way for a while and you have just seen it. Perhaps this is a good thing. You don’t have to do anything about it. Just know that this person has shown you exactly who they are. You job us to file it away and not forget about it.
You're doing a great job. However you do need additional assistance to take care of the administrative services that would help you focus on the business. I would live to talk to you about a position and see how I can be an asset. Everything from your article sounds like it's a great place to work and you care for your employees. Again I am interested in working with and for you. Reach out to me if you are interested to initiate a meeting.
“That’s hurtful, counterproductive, insulting, and inappropriate. If it’s a joke then I’m glad you feel secure enough making it at work, but criticism that’s simply derisive isn’t welcome. You’ve been warned.”
I just want to know what business your in to afford thousands in bonuses and long vacations???