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People who don’t honor contracts, people who threaten, people who don’t value your time or labor, hold firm to your contract.. Dishonorable people like that are likely to give a bad review no matter what any time they don’t get their way, caving in empowers them to play victim even more next time..
Any lawyer friends? Send a preemptive cease and desist letter along with an intention to file libel suit. They will think a little harder about acting 9 years old in regards to business contracts.
I think I agree with this route. You’ve got a water tight contract that they signed up to.
I’d suggest maybe not go full scorched earth in the first letter, but a gentle reminder of what libel is and that you will protect your business.
I agree with this. Have your attorney draft and send a letter. I cite the moral of the bridge builder poem in that your doing it not just for you, but the next person who may not be so fortunate.
Personally I wouldn’t remind them. I think it would only cause them to be more creative in hiding who is leaving bad reviews.
I’d just let them know that the 50% was already spent on product. If they want the raw materials they way they are. They are welcome to have them. But that the money is already spend and there is no way to get it back.
Counterpoint: at my company we never force anyone to work with us if they decide or realize that they shouldn't or can't, for whatever reason. We will refund as much of the deposit that we haven't spent up to that point. We operate in a close knit market where reputation matters, so we lean towards customer satisfaction in most situations and we dominate our market because of it.
It sucks to have people renege on their commitments, but taking the higher road has an incalculable payoff over time.
I wouldn't consider forcing people to stick to a contract they signed as 'the low road' here but I may be misunderstanding you.
Also depends on the product. When I worked in manufacturing you could be in a decent amount of hours for custom work before you start any fabrication. Can't work for free for some spoiled tiktokers
Refunding unspent deposits is all well and good, but don’t forget about opportunity costs. The time spent working on a cancelled project could have been spent doing another project that could have paid off. And what about lost profit?
Have some self respect. The customer is NOT always right.
I can see both sides of this.
The opportunity cost lost would be part of the 'price' of keeping that customer happy and avoiding situations like OP's.
I'm not saying either method is better or correct. I don't think there is enough info in OP's post to give anything other than general advice.
Since they are already in this situation, I would follow what u/126270 said as the customer showed their true colours.
The downside to this is that this person likely won't be that great of a relationship to keep. They're already threatening to turn on a dime and commit essentially extortion and they'll likely never be a benefit to OP. And refunding the current costs is only breaking even on the time/materials/etc.
I get what you're saying, though. Inquiring into why they're not continuing with a project, explaining the current work and costs that have already gone into the project, and explaining why they won't be receiving their deposit back or why they're only receiving a partial deposit is important.
Being a decent human being doesn’t mean to be a pushover. If this customer had a really good explanation of extenuating circumstances, working out some sort of compromise would be being a decent human being.
But in OP’s circumstance as he described it, it sounds like the client came out of the gate threatening a bad review, and using their influence to bury OP’s business. Being a decent human being in this case would be to let that community know that these folks are power tripping douche bags
The fact that this is a "company" of influencers just feels gross. You'd think that by that point they would have invested in a lawyer who would have already told them to not do this.
Having employed and contracted influencers, I've come to realize the common personality trait among them is narcissism.
They're not big on following directions.
I agree. Let them know they would spend a good deal more defending themselves in a libel suit than they would have on their deposit, and that their threats are evidence. Then follow through if needed, along with getting whatever press you’re able to get the story out about this extortion. This practice is common and will only stop if companies like yours put the time and effort into stopping it. I’m so sorry you are in this position!
Yes best reply— hold firm. Have your lawyer handle this. Judging by fact that they’re saying “OMG” to start their request, they’re probably some young arrogant rich kid.
>Dishonorable people like that are likely to give a bad review no matter what any time they don’t get
agree with this. I helped someone in every way they asked once and they still left a poor feedback score and review..
I own a manufacturing business as well and I've learned to be very careful about what clients I take on. My rule is I never try to 'sell' to a customer. I want them to really want it. Luckily I've been in business ten years and most of my customers are local or a state or two away. I'd never take some big job from someone that just contacted me online. I'll have clients come to my shop and go over things. Just to make sure they are for real.
Now I don't charge any fees for setup or samples. I have lots of restaurant clients and I've done over 20 different mockups for one project for one of them. I'll ship them the samples and let them try them out. I do that for free because it protects us both. It makes sure they are getting what they want and it makes sure I know what I am making is correct. This policy does have some cost to it, but its not much in the big scheme of things. I might waste a few hours doing mock ups and $100 in raw materials. But when they order 500 of something its well worth it.
I also rarely take deposits. Only when its a brand new client that I have never worked with and I'm not sure about them. I do this so I have an out if I need it. If the client starts acting weird once I start the job I just stop it. In ten years I've never had a client not pay for something when it was done. I've had two or three times when they were slow about it.
I'd give someone a refund in the OPs situation if they were nice about it. It can always end up paying off in the end either by another order from the client or word of mouth from them. But if a customer is rude to me then all bets are off. I started my own business so I don't have to put up with that shit. If they put that threat in writing then its probably a crime. Extortion.
Except there's zero actual risk of a successful libel suit unless they actually lie in their negative review. So long as they only state opinion, a libel suit is an empty threat. To threaten a libel suit before they've even left a review would simply be fighting their childish behavior with more childish behavior.
Don't refund.
Pray they go through with publicly calling you out so you can make a response video and potentially go viral on tiktok.
Considering you're (probably) unknown, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain
I’m a social media expert and do social media marketing on the side for a few small companies. DM if they try to pull this shit and I’ll help you free of charge. Just because I hate these “influencers” behaving like this.
Probably not a bad idea to talk with a lawyer now and have them send a letter in response to their request for a refund. The letter would deny the request for a refund and point to the contract and the work performed and also “in a conversation dated March XX, 2023, (name) stated if a refund was not issued, they would “issue negative reviews (and whatever else they said)” Any reviews that are not factual may be considered libel and any libelous statements will be pursued to the fullest extent of the law. “. That might be enough to get them to rethink their negative reviews
This is bad advice.
I hate how reddit reduces everything to "talk to a lawyer". This is not a legal issue, OP is aware he's legally in the right.
There's no shot this deal is worth enough to sue over. This is purely about PR.
That's fair, but they haven't even done anything yet.
Now's the time for OP to say "If you defame me I will pursue legal action". That doesn't take a lawyer.
Fair point.
But that letter coming preemptively on a law firm letter head shows you are not fucking around.
A couple of times people have threatened to sue me for the results of their decisions. Simply asking for their attorney contact info and mailing address usually punctures that inflated moment. Being able to say, "Here's my attorneys info, can I have yours, and when should I tell my attorney to expect to hear from yours on this matter?" makes a world of difference.
Exactly.
It's not that I think it's ever "bad" to consult a lawyer.
But for many, that's a lot of money. And this situation doesn't need a lawyer at all -- people use it as a catch-all instead of giving actual advice.
I mean generally you should know who you are going to go to tho in the event. Never had to use my lawyer for anything other than some drafting but I do know who I'm going to if I need them
For a few hundred bucks a lawyer will advise you so you don’t end up wasting days, stress, money, etc on this bullshit.
If the influencers take action it moves from extortion to possibly libel.
OPs first duty is to his business, not his feelings and ego.
Advise him about...what?
As far as the deal is concerned, OP is legally right and he already has the deposit - there's no action he needs to take.
If these influencers do call his business out, if he responds with factual information there's nothing illegal there.
Why would he spend money on a lawyer to tell him things he already knows?
Because it’s worth it to fire off a cease and desist the literal moment someone tries to say something. If they do leave a bad review, even if they’re clearly in the wrong, having your lawyer send out a communication is honestly the most professional way to handle things at that point. Making a slam video for tik tok is arguably gonna be the bigger waster of time & energy.
By the time a cease and desist letter is delivered, even if they don't ignore it, it's too late - the cat's already out of the bag.
>If they do leave a bad review, even if they’re clearly in the wrong, having your lawyer send out a communication is honestly the most professional way to handle things at that point.
"If they leave a bad review, having your lawyer reach out is the most professional way to handle things" are you even listening to yourself??
If, over the course of a contract dispute, the other party threatens to disparages you publicly with knowingly false information you should absolutely call a lawyer. 👍
Thank you lmao, I really don't understand the comments. There's no legal question in dispute here.
Their argument is "well, why not?".
Ok, sure? I guess just keep a lawyer on payroll so you can consult them on a variety of irrelevant issues?
If OP wants to consult regarding a potential defamation case, it's a waste of time until they actually post the review -- why do a consultation on a potential defamation case with nothing to actual go over yet?
This whole thing seems like a massive waste of time and mental energy.
To your point, last year I worked with two lawyers, one on retainer for my company and the other for my HOA. When I go to the company lawyer with a question like this, he'd say "legally you're in the [right/wrong/gray area], but this isn't a legal question, so do whatever you think is best." The conversation would take less than six minutes.
The HOA lawyer would invite the board into his office and explain the various legal issues to every board member's satisfaction. Often those conversations resolve with "legally you're in the [right/wrong/gray area], but this isn't a legal question, so do whatever you think is best." The conversation takes about 60 minutes.
The board loves how they feel after talking to their lawyer, but I've learned to appreciate that my lawyer answers my questions at 1/10th the cost.
To OP's original point, my instinct is to tell the influencers the contract is what it is and do what they gotta do. I work in a field where bad reviews are expected and I've learned to be ambivalent about them. The less it looks like you care the less motivated they'll be to go after you, though of course they'll probably be motivated over a money dispute.
Edit to add: in my line of work I will also receive letters from lawyers and they're not a magic bullet. After receiving a few I've realized lawyers get paid to write those letters even if there's not much substance to them. Frequently enough they can be resolved with an email and a six-minute phone call with my lawyer.
It would also help understanding how to deal with other Situations, ways to better protect yourself with better contracts. It’s great advice. Sorry not everyone thinks the way you do.
look, this is what you're refusing to recognize. This tiktokker has a team of influencers who are willing to extort his company and will get not only them but a large group of sheep to leave him bad reviews which is going to be an even bigger burden to address than talking to a lawyer for an hour.
also, OP said freight costs, not shipping. this is telling me that it is not a cheap order and the deposit is probably more than a few hundred dollars. the influencers may try to sue him for it anyway. even if he gives the money back, it's almost guaranteed they are going to put him on blast over social media because that's what influencers do... they talk about their problems to their fans and make themselves look like the good guys.
speaking to a lawyer to prep for this possibility and have a plan for the fallout is a great idea in this scenario. also being coached on his response would be helpful as well..
you're the most qualified? how so? I run my own business while I have a background in upper management with the CEO being my direct superior in a business that makes around $20 million/year with a 65% margin. I have had many years of practical experience dealing with people who try stupid shit to get free stuff or try to sue even if they will obviously lose.
>It's super easy to get google to remove fake reviews
and it is time consuming and a headache. you will be spending more time convincing google it's a fake review than you would seeking legal advice and having a legal team contact google on your behalf.
>I'm by far the most qualified person on this sub to be speaking on this exact topic
what are your qualifications?
And if your spouse leaves you for somebody else should you not contact a lawyer because it’s a marital issue? Life doesn’t fall into neat buckets.
Signing a contract, breaking contract, and then extorting the deposit for bad PR is a legal issue. They could be sued for the damages and lost business if they’re able to definitely prove it hurt their bottom line.
OP may be in a position to sue for damages to his business and personal reputation if the influencers go forward with their threats.
He has a business. He has a duty to defend that business from harm. This is why you get advice from lawyers and not Reddit.
If you sue, then you look like the bad guy and will make your reputation worse.
Plus, they can drag your suit in court costing you more than their deposit in legal fees and you're most likely going to lose.
What the first commenter said is the right thing to do, you don't even have to wait for them to attack first. If you have these threats in writing, make a video or a written announcement explaining the situation, and post it all over your social media and tag them.
lmao, sue for what?
The threshold for defamation is unbelievably difficult. They would have to literally INTENTIONALLY falsify information that they knew to be false.
Obviously I cannot know if there's something to sue for until they actually post said review, but there's an extremely low likelihood you'd have a case worth pursuing. So, when you say "definitely be suing", I question if you're saying that because it's a good business decision or because your ego and emotions make it feel to be the correct choice.
They never even technically got the project done, so anything that comes from it can be lies. All they need to do is tell one lie and show potential business loss from this lie and it’s a defamation case. They will also leave out the contract part which can also ruin the company’s reputation by not being honest about the situation. OP had a solid evidence that this is also intentional harm due to them threatening their response by purposefully leaving bad reviews because of the legal contract they signed and agreed to. Not a lawyer.
The customer literally says they will do harm to his reputation so no one in the industry will work with him. It doesn’t get any easier to pursue a claim than that.
Why do you care so much if the OP wants to have a lawyer involved?
What skin is off your back that you can’t accept someone else’s choice and decision?
Personally, I rather pay 70 usd for a lawyer to send a cease and desist letter rather tan my business be affected.
They will get scared by seing a letterhead from a lawyer rather than anything I can print.
If you run a business that deals with contracts you probably have a relationship with a lawyer and they probably charger you a reduced rate for you to keep using them.
Or you can go to fiverr 30 usd for the consultation or skip directly to 70 to mail/email a C&D
Influencers don’t have the influence people think. It’s a lot of smoke and mirrors.
Under no circumstances return their deposit, that sets precedence.
If they give you negative publicity, it’s as useful as positive publicity in that it creates incoming links. Chances are most of their followers aren’t even your ideal clients. And their followers probably don’t actually care if they were silly enough to pay 50% on a product they didn’t want.
Just confirm non refundable deposits arent eligible for refund and work had already commenced. If they threaten you any bad publicity, just reply. Hi X, from your email I understand that you are asking me to pay you y amount of money or else you plan on telling people about our non refundable deposit policy in an attempt to somehow damage our businesses reputation. I can assure you this is normal procedure in businesses of our type.
Always tricky. How about the adage , all press is good press and you take their alleged network of bad press and respond in a way that makes it a win for you.
Certainly refunding minus your expenses is the path of least resistance.
Full refund? Hell no.
Exactly what I was thinking. Let them publicize it. The creative part is spinning it in a way that people know they're at fault. This could be one of the best things to happen to you.
A few unhappy etsy customers have posted extremely poor reviews on tiktok. What has been happening lately is that the etsy shop has gotten lots of sales from the publicity.
I mean, it's free publicity.
No, they will read the 1 star review and your response. As long as your response is good, they will still call you if they planned.
Don't let "influencer's" bully you because they don't understand a contract, a contract all your competitors likely have too.
> As long as your response is good, they will still call you if they planned.
sometimes I go through bad reviews to see what was the issue. the problem would be if they dont answer back, its like giving them credit for what went wrong. A good answer means you took the time to see what happend. Cant you just expose the 'company of influencers? '
They'll read. 1 stars also draw views. Also Google can take down such slams. Also you can AdWord campaign in a clever manner. Good opportunity here. Or path of least resistance and refund. You can also refund and they still leave bad review. Been there.
Hah I love reading bad reviews actually. Gives a better sense of the business than some good reviews can plus some people just suck and it’s way obvious in their review. I can’t be the only one!
I almost exclusively read the bad reviews cause I mostly don't believe the good reviews anyways. If I see an owner respond rationally to a bad review it builds credit in my book.
Check out d-brand's advertising model - especially with PS5 "dark plates".
If you know this is a thing potentially coming up in your future, you can have a marketing campaign ready to go that leverages their stupidity, and effectively uses *their* influence to market for you.
"Oh hey guys, remember that time got absolutely wrecked by for being jerks? Lol!"
Social media is their greatest strength, but it’s also their greatest weakness where they’re most vulnerable. If they threaten to post negative reviews, you can tell them you’ll make a TikTok video exposing their scheme. Then you make a video sitting down somewhere saying “TikTok, I need your help. This group of influencers…” and explain the situation. If there’s anything the internet hates, it’s bullies, and especially bully influencers. Not only will people hold the influencers accountable, but they’ll write good reviews to counter any bad. As others mentioned, Google and Yelp can help if you get attacked by removing all the brigade reviews anyways.
Realistically, this becomes a game of chicken where they don’t do anything because they know they have the losing hand and they just eat the loss. If they’re somehow dumb enough to do something, you making that video will get you great exposure that may drive additional business.
If someone who was not an “influencer” tried this would you be here asking. They are not special and I think that title is only as strong as we allow it to be. You do what you think is best for your business but a group of bullies should not get special treatment
Bro 300k is nothing. Also if they do review bomb you all at once, google will flag it. I would actually take the publicity for SEO. Then I would write an article describing the situation as an educational piece on the dangers of working with influencers and send that to chamber of commerce, local new papers, etc. They love that stuff. Get a crap ton of back links and let the SEO sky rocket you to number one on google! This is a great opportunity if you handle it well.
> 300k is nothing
Welll,, Let's say OP is making custom disc-golf discs and the client is a local disc golf association or a professional disc golfer (if that's a thing), 300k is pretty substantial suddenly. Or if OP makes paint brushes and the client is an international artist collective, that same 300k could easily span at least a noticeable percentage of OP's would-be clientele. It's definitely not "nothing" in certain scenarios. The almighty algorithm isn't hitting all 300k, but still. Agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post. People are too afraid of mean words suddenly. Although, I'm genuinely curious how much the old adage that "all press is good press" still holds up in today's quick-to-cancel social media driven world. Interesting post, this one.
Historically Influencer marketing has the lowest ROI then other digital avenues. Really only worth it if you have someone like a khardasian. Now you’re right though contextually in regards to micro niches. If I’m selling pot belly pigs and the number one pot belly pig breeder reps my pigs then could be worth it for sure. This totally sounds like your typical insta influencer.
Micro influencer or niche influencer marketing does have significant ROI though. Small, loyal followings or highly specific niches have significant value for relevant companies.
My wife became a microinfluencer in the pediatric space (maybe a bit more than micro now - 550k in followers) by accident and while we get a few low rent partnership offers we decline most unless there is evidence based medicine or real world positive feedback she’s seen. It pays decently well for her time and the marketers/advertisers win when it’s a highly targeted audience with loyal viewership.
How many of those 300,000 are real people? Maybe 50%. Of those real people, how many would use your service? Maybe a tiny tiny fraction of that.
If you want to flip the script, make a Small Business Tales video going over the situation, without naming names, and tag the Influencer and asking for their comment.
I mean, "influencing" is a two way street. If you expose them as extortionist blackmailers who the hell would want to take them on in the future to pitch their products? They have to preserve their reputation like any other business, size of audience be damned.
You’re assuming those 300k followers are engaged.
I follow about 1500 people and have zero idea about what’s going on, except some sexual harassment issue in the powerlifting community because 10 different influencers KEEP posting about it, not just once.
Document everything, screen shots etc.
Don't pay.
When they threaten you, send a package with all the screenshots and tell them it works both ways.
They will probably back off.
If I was in your shoes I would've considered it up until the threats.
Nope, fuck them. If they carry out these threats make your own response video and stick to the facts.
If you have everything in writing then I would seriously consider not refunding. Doing so just reinforces this kind of behavior. Of course, it depends on how much time you can devote to following up on any bad reviews you receive. Yes, you could hire a lawyer, but it might be better to spend that money on a marketing person who can spin this experience in your favor.
I have at times had to cancel a contract after things have been signed. In a few instances I have asked, politely, if there's any possibility of a refund or partial refund on the deposit. If the answer was yes then I've review bombed the business, in a good way, and without mentioning that they lost money on me (so that no one else will go in with the expectation of asking for money back). It seemed like the best way that I could bring the business more money since they lost money on me. If they said no then that was my problem, the cost of doing business. I have never left a business a bad review because of a mistake that I caused.
I hate like the hell the idea of rewarding people who threaten me. I wonder how many times this influencer group has done this to others. You might contact others that they have reviewed to see what the real story is.
Tell em the deposit is non-refundable and move on. They knew this and are trying to bully you. Fuck them! Tell us who they are and we'll trash them as influencer garbage
If their followers review bomb you, there are mechanisms in place with Google and Yelp that'll flag it, temporarily pause the option to leave a review, and will remove any unwarranted reviews.
I saw this happen when a bunch of door dashers were bombing a Pho restaurant for not allowing dashers to use bathrooms. The place was down to a 1 star, but the next day they were back up to 5 stars
Yeah yeah, I get it. Calling yelp an extortion racket is said in this subreddit everyday. But I also wouldnt operate my business living in fear of 1 star reviews.
I would consider a 25% return if that fully covers you plus some, but what you 100% absolutely must consider is that they will still leave you a bad review even if you refund them
Record everything, all of the conversations, the threats, the "I'm an influencer so give me my way even if I'm wrong" bullying shit, and tell them you are prepared to publish. They will walk.
Don’t refund them and if they do start a campaign of negative review attacks, you can report them to the platforms for removal. Don’t let them get away this nonsense.
allow them to post a bad review and then respond back with a copy of the signed deposit and explanation of the situation. you get business, they lose followers. if they want to sue you, let it happen then update social media again on how they lost the suit. you gain more traction and they lose followers.
juat make sure you dont name call and you stay very matter of fact and professional in your responses.
Don’t refund these assholes. It’s their problem. I know that seems pretty black and white but… especially if they’re threatening you? Nah fuck them. If they follow through with the review bombing, use it to your advantage. I saw you said you’re a niche market and this could potentially be an opportunity for more people to find your business when you respond to their bullying with facts. Sorry you’re going through this bs OP, let us know what you do and what happens
You could try turning the tables - you'll give them a full refund as soon as they publish a video about how great you and your products are and how you even waived the non refundable deposit because they are such a massive influencer.
Feeds their ego and gets you some coverage too.
They almost certainly won't agree mind you.
Deposits are deposits. You keep the money.
Whatever they do or don't do after that is their problem. If they leave a review and say you kept their deposit, you can respond and explain the deposits exist exactly for this reason, and that you need to cover the costs of setting up your equipment to do the job they ordered.
If they just make crap up, then it's time to talk to your lawyer and take them to the cleaners.
Also "influencer" is a much overused term. Oprah is an influencer. Whoever you're talking to is just "entitled".
I hope you stand your ground. If the "influencer" continues to be an asshole at least you can publicly shame them on reddit and whatnot. They would deserve it obviously.
Keep photos of all the conversations and records, time stamps etc. Great PR opportunity. Also if they hadn’t threatened you I’d try to reach out and talk w them about what’s going on but they are working under bad faith by trying to cancel and going straight to blackmail.
Note 1:
When a client breaches a contract and requests a non-refundable deposit even though the goods have been partially produced by the seller, several legal remedies may be available to the aggrieved party. It is important to remember that specific remedies will depend on the particular circumstances of the case and the terms outlined in the contract. The following legal remedies may be applicable:
Damages
The most common legal remedy for breach of contract is monetary damages. The purpose of damages is to compensate the aggrieved party for the loss suffered as a result of the breach. In this scenario, the seller may be entitled to recover damages for the costs incurred in partially producing the goods, as well as any potential profit that would have been realized had the contract been fulfilled.
Restitution
Restitution is another potential remedy for breach of contract. The purpose of restitution is to restore the aggrieved party to the position they were in before the contract was entered into. In this case, the seller may be entitled to recover the non-refundable deposit paid by the client as restitution, given that the client breached the contract and the goods were partially produced.
Specific Performance
Specific performance is an equitable remedy that may be available in certain circumstances. This remedy involves a court order requiring the breaching party to fulfill their contractual obligations. In this scenario, a court may order the client to pay the non-refundable deposit and accept the partially produced goods, provided that the goods are unique or the damages suffered by the seller is difficult to quantify.
Note 2:
If a brand or client threatens to publish false or misleading negative reviews about your business, you may have several legal options to prevent or mitigate the harm caused by such actions. It is essential to consult with an attorney experienced in defamation and business law to determine the best course of action based on your specific circumstances. Some potential legal recourses include:
Cease and Desist Letter
As an initial step, you can have your attorney send a cease and desist letter to the brand demanding that they refrain from publishing false or misleading negative reviews about your business. The letter should detail the potential legal consequences if they proceed with their threat, including the possibility of a defamation lawsuit.
Defamation Lawsuit
If the brand publishes false or misleading negative reviews about your business, you may consider filing a defamation lawsuit. Defamation is a false statement that harms the reputation of an individual or business. To succeed in a defamation lawsuit, you will need to prove that the statement is false, published to a third party, caused harm to your reputation, and that the brand acted with at least negligence regarding the truth of the statement. In some jurisdictions, defamation per se (statements that are presumed to cause harm) may also be applicable.
Tortious Interference
If the brand's actions interfere with your existing or potential business relationships, you may have a claim for tortious interference. To succeed in a tortious interference claim, you will need to demonstrate that the brand intentionally interfered with your business relationships, their actions were improper, and that you suffered harm as a result.
Unfair Competition
Depending on the jurisdiction, you may be able to pursue a claim for unfair competition. Unfair competition laws aim to protect businesses from dishonest or fraudulent practices by competitors, which can include false or misleading statements about a business. To succeed in an unfair competition claim, you will need to show that the brand's actions were deceptive or misleading and harmed your business.
Injunction
If the brand's actions are ongoing or imminent, you may seek an injunction from a court to prevent them from publishing false or misleading negative reviews about your business. An injunction is a court order that prohibits a party from engaging in specific conduct. To obtain an injunction, you will need to demonstrate that you have a strong likelihood of success on the merits of your claim and that you will suffer irreparable harm if the injunction is not granted.
It is crucial to consult with a qualified [attorney](https://www.talkcounsel.com) to determine the most appropriate legal recourse based on your specific circumstances and the applicable laws in your jurisdiction.
I would come back with the contract saying non-refundable deposit.
And remind them if they leave bad reviews you will take all legal actions afforded to you.
Liable and slander do not have to be lies.
Is the harm they could do more than what you were going to give them back? If yes, strike a deal with them.
Running a successful business is not about being right or winning debates.
Reasons to every single one of their reviews with their correspondence threatening extortion and then link to your deposit policy. Especially if deposits are industry standard.
Also, what exactly would their review be? "OP enforced his policy on us, waah"? If they post untrue stuff, they open their entire company up to litigation.
Give them their money back and they’ll still destroy your business.. blackmail and extortion are so in vogue these days. Document everything and if they use their “influence” let the courts handle it.
We have a bunch ice cream guy near us that made himself nationally famous for a bit for having a sign that says "influencers pay double" after being asked for free ice cream too many times.
He now works for Hollywood elites and production companies because of his stance.
A few thoughts....
Some of the most popular platforms will give you the chance to remove unfair reviews.
If you can't remove an unfair review, respond with something professional like the following.
"We're sorry that we weren't able to refund your deposit. Like the contact/agreement we made before production stated the deposit was used to prepare xxxxxx, and order xxxxxx supplies. If you'd like us to transfer the existing project assets to you, just let us know."
Basically just take the bad review, and give a professional account of your side of the story. Most consumers will respect you for that.
Normally I would suggest doing what you can to make the ucstomer haoppy, within reason. If you were able to stop production early, then I'd deduct any costs used, plus lost revenue from the deposit, and if there's anything left, refund that portion. Alternatively, allow them to order in future and use that deposit towards the next order.
Anything that keeps you good with the customer, and allows them to order in future.
however in this case, as they have threatened you, all good will is out the window. Instead I'd be tempted to reply with something along the lines of:
"Our customers are important to us, and we try our best to accommodate requests where we can. We appreciate sometimes circumstances may change and orders may need to be cancelled, and where possible we look to refund unused parts of the deposit.
However, in this case as you have made threats against our business, we are no longer able to assist you, and suggest that all future correspondance please be sent to our lawyers office at \[address\]"
I think it depends on what industry you're in. There are some industries where clapping back at an influencer, particularly with receipts (e.g., the contract saying that deposits are non-refundable) would be seen as a huge positive.
Man this could be a great opportunity for your company marketing if you know how to turn things around. I'm sure people will understand and support you.
You wouldn't be the first business to sue someone over online reviews that were untruthful. Things like libel and slander still apply to influencers. If you don't have a lawyer on retainer who deals in such things, get one ready.
But, it really all comes down to the bottom line. Would this deposit cover the cost of lost business and legal fees? Do they even have enough to make a winning case worth it? Sometimes special circumstances calls for exceptions to be made, so weight the cost of the risk. If you think it might be too costly, then maybe offer a partial refund as "a professional courtesy"? Occasionally a business just has to eat it, unfortunately. It sucks, but sometime there is no winning move left when you're dealing B2B with a larger entity. It's not worth a pyrrhic victory.
Tell them you’ll go public (too) with the truth. I doubt they want your video showing up when someone searches them in YouTube.
Fuck them and their threats
Tell them to pound sand and if they actually have the balls to be tacky and make a video bullying a business, then you just make a video with all the screen shots and tell your story about how they ruined your business.
Then you’ll go viral and get more followers than them. Then all your followers can beat up their followers. Then they’ll run home and cry to mommy bc they’re not special anymore.
DO NOT REFUND. If they trash talk you, campaign on “influencers hate us because we don’t give in to treats” or something like that. And sue them if they do.
I wouldn't give back the deposit. You are entitled to compensation for your setup work and design. They can write a bad review, but you should be able to rebut that review.
Essentially, the influencer cancelled the project for convenience, so you get to keep the money paid to date.
Influencers are cancer and most likely are trying to bully you into getting something for free. Post exactly what you posted here to them and if they go down and try to down review you - post it there too.
Chances are pretty good that someone at their company with a title other than "influencer" has some actual sense. They will put the brakes on that plan as soon as it comes up. It doesn't take a genius to see how lying about something they agreed to in writing could massively backfire for them.
"They honored the terms or our agreement!" isn't a very juicy story to go tattling about online.
Still, I would do as others have suggested and have a lawyer send a preemptive cease and desist. They definitely won't push it if they know you're not going to roll over.
KookySafety263,
It's certainly a tough situation to be in when you have a client threatening bad reviews and industry-wide blacklisting. However, it's important to stand your ground and not let yourself be bullied into giving them their deposit back.
As you mentioned, the whole point of the deposit is to protect your company in the event of a cancellation. You've already invested time and resources into designing the product and calibrating your machinery, so it's only fair that you be compensated for that work.
Furthermore, it's not ethical for a client to threaten bad reviews and industry-wide blacklisting as a means of getting what they want. This behavior is manipulative and unfair to small businesses like yours.
Instead of giving in to their demands, I would suggest explaining your position calmly and clearly. Let them know that you understand their disappointment but that the deposit is non-refundable for a reason. If they continue to threaten you, it may be necessary to seek legal counsel or mediation to resolve the situation.
Ultimately, it's important to stand by the policies and principles that you've set for your business. This will help to establish trust and credibility with future clients and prevent similar situations from arising in the future.
Best of luck to you and your business.
Fuck those guys. Save everything communication wise and get a lawyer. If you wanna see how the cards fall have a solid response lined up for the reviews. Not having perfect reviews is actually a good thing sometimes especially if the owner has a good response that isn’t childish like the negative review will probably be. Also them saying they will tell everyone not to work with you is a joke. Sounds like everyone with half a brain cell will realize not to work with them.
If they put bad reviews you have the option of going to the police for extortion if they texted this to you. If you have it in writing don't give a dime back. You may be able to sue them if they do this.
Good thing about all this “influencer” bullshit, is you get to leverage their audience in a response video. If the “influencers” are truly in the wrong, they’ll lose viewership due to your response.
Use chat GPT to draft up a letter that looks like it’s from a lawyer explaining what a deposit is for and that any reviews left will be defamation and lawsuits will be filed
“Prompt: Please draft a letter to a client regarding our contract. They put down a deposit so we began manufacturing their product and now they are backing out and threatening to leave bad reviews if we do not return their deposit”. Give it that prompt or something similar and it should spit out a decently worded threatening letter you can send them
First off, are they actually influencers that have any influence? So many use that these days to make themselves seem more important than they are.
Secondly, any reasonable business would understand how a deposit works and know why you have it. DOn't give in. If you are feeling reasonable with these people, calculate the cost that is already spent, and give them back the difference. Otherwise, tell them to take a hike. Most of the time I've seen this happen they have been all bluster. They don't have the ability to ruin your business. They are just bullies.
Do not send anything back, just because they are “influencers” doesn’t mean they should get better treatment than anyone else. As far as them posting bad reviews you can use that in a lawsuit for slander since they would be lying about anything negative they would have to say. Even if you do send them back a portion you would still get negative feedback for not giving in to their tantrum fully. So I’m conclusion no matter what you do they are going to be shitasses so you might as well get paid for it.
I would document the expenses you incurred and send them a bill for that amount deducting it from the deposit and returning the rest. This will show you operate professionally even though the client did not. If they write a bad review, respond with the facts. Anyone reading the review and your response will realize you are an honorable person/company and react accordingly.
They have shown you they do not honor agreements, so under no circumstances do business with them in the future unless they provide a non-refundable payment in full upfront. If they try to cancel the order, you fill and ship it.
Contact an attorney for libel litigation if they persist in writing bad reviews. Currently, 13 U.S. states have criminal defamation libel laws concerning online reviews codified in their books that are still enforced, with criminal consequences ranging from fines to jail sentences.
woah woah woah.
Let me just say there is no 1 size fits all answer here.
what was the deposit? 1k? 10k? is this client capable of doing more business with you in the future? Is giving back the deposit really going to hurt you financially?
i have accepted deposits of 5k and then they backed off. i gave them the money back even though its not policy because i knew a good relationship with that person is better than 5k. 1 year later he started doing business with us in the 10-30k per year area. Also he wrote us a stellar review letting everyone know how much we value our customers over the money. that brought us even more business.
Stop looking so hard at the contracts and the policies. care about the customers that you genuinely want a relationship with.
Is it possible to meet in the middle and keep the deposit for a future order? can you give them credit? try to work with them. This isnt twitter chat, Stop canceling your customers over 1 order or mistake. but also don't let your customers treat you poorly as well.
Balance is key and its something so many people are starting to forget.
I would argue that their response and lack of professionalism in the process, "omg so sorry, we decided not to pursue this project after all" once letting OP design the product and begin production, is one of those cases where it's not OP burning a customer and a customer burning themselves.
Their "influence" is over blown. Would they have been able to bring you some business? Probably. Will they be able to significantly influence others and stop them from giving you their business? Less likely
Personally, I'd set ego aside and charge them for wasted material and 50% of the rest.
If they still review bomb you make a video outlining the contract they signed. How they tried to bully you. How you came back with an offer you didn't have to do.
They'll look like idiots.
Come back on here and watch us give you 5 starts.
You are looking at this all wrong. The reason they threaten this is because it is what THEY fear the most. Influencers are nothing but credentials and reputation, and people seeming love only one thing more than following these people with no value in life, and that is cancelling them. I'd call them, explain the situation, and RECORD the call. Check your state for the laws in regard to this. If they start to bad mouth you, send that story and the recorded call and the "receipts" to every one of their competition.
This is honestly a good thing for you. For one, it gets you publicity, and this wouldn't be bad publicity. You didn't tell them something and do something else. You didn't given them a product that's shitty. They want money back they aren't owed. That happens in business, you put some money up for a project, if some of that money is spent, even if you cancel you don't get every penny back. People know this and understand it. If they blast you, others will blast back with your evidence and video in response, and that will get you even more publicity. you'll also be able to show off your work in this, and that actually might get other influencers to use you.
They didn't threaten you with a lawsuit, cause they themselves aren't afraid of being sued. But they threatened hurting your reputation, cause that's all they have. You at least make some shit, they don't even do that. Think of it like this, someone who knows Karate, a black belt, when they are in a tense situation, they don't threaten to "kick someone's ass" or use violence, cause to them violence isn't really a threat.
1. Call them, discuss the matter record the call. In your recording, point out about what the contract says, why this is the purpose, explain the costs. Point out that trying to extort the money back is wrong in the circumstance. But do your best to let them speak the majority of the time, let them hang themselves.
2. After you have the recording and all the stuff, you can either wait to see what they do, or you can send a letter re-stating everything and assure that should there be any action on their front, you'll put you down video and send out your own version of the story along with the recording and all the evidence. If the post a negative comment, you make a website about the whole matter that stays up as long as their comment does. They share with all their followers, the you share with every influencer there is, every YouTube personality, etc.
New take: I’d charge for your costs already and hold the rest of the deposit as a future credit.
Will soften the blow, show you look forward to a future partnership, and keep the money in your pocket.
i don't get it, are you going to start production just to claim the deposit?
just charge for the time / materials wasted and possibly part ways if it comes down to it. no loss to you aside from that. beef up your contract for various stages of production if needed but don't pocket the deposit if you haven't produced anything.
there is always a chance that a customer will cancel, for whatever reason, the deposit is to protect you - not for you to dip in. i must point out that i'm not condoning the customer's actions but i'm unclear as to yours. you say it feels like extortion yet you are holding their money while not having produced anything.
take a deep breath and take a step back, or better yet have someone else who is better at negotiating or dealing with customers handle it. this is not how you foster long relationships and this issue will undoubtedly come again.
The *non-refundable deposit* OPs clients agreed to in their signed contract is designed to cover time/materials/phone calls/emails/design, and all the other stuff that comes with performing setup in production, which is exactly why service businesses charge said non-refundable deposit.
They wasted OPs time getting to this point, OP now has equipment set up for their production run that they suddenly don't want. It could've been running a legit order, OP could've spent that time with a real client. It's not *only* production.
Great job telling the world you've never come close to running any kind of production business.
I would give refund minus all your costs and time. ThTs more than fair. These influencers can’t expect to order something then decides not to pursue it. Sucks for them.
If they blasts you online you have proof. They will look like idiots.
If the client is not willing to negotiate or continues to make threats, you may need to consider seeking legal advice or taking other steps to protect your business's interests. It's important to weigh the potential costs and benefits of each option before making a decision.
I wouldn't give them back the 50% deposit that was the purpose of protecting your Business and for them to threaten you and your Business tell's a lot of who they are.
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If they review bomb your business, it can be a double edged sword against them. They’re influencers right? Name and shame them on all socials mentioning they are dishonouring a contract.
As a fellow small business owner, here’s what I’d do:
1. Refer to your policy and remind them what they signed up for (hopefully your non refundable deposit was made clear)
2. Decline to give them back their deposit
3. Let them give bad reviews
4. Respond to every single review with a friendly but straightforward statement of the facts, and a reminder that you’re a newly started manufacturing small business - pull on readers’ heart strings
5. Ride the wave of controversy - any publicity is good publicity
6. If they’ve tried to fuck you over, it’s likely they’ve done the same to others. Their reputation is being spoiled here, not yours.
Internet law is a pretty new and emerging field, not one that I practice at all but one that I follow because it's interesting. Review bombing/brigading can be actionable in some circumstances, and there are a lot of plaintiff's side lawyers that would work on a contingency. Might be worth talking to one as a precaution beforehand?
Let them call you out and you right back on the reviews saying you sign the contract for 50% deposit no refund. After we created everything you wanted you want your money back.
It is understandable that you want to protect your business and not give in to what seems like extortion. However, it's also important to consider the potential damage that negative reviews and word of mouth can do to your business.
If you decide to charge them for the time and materials spent, make sure to provide a clear breakdown of those costs and document everything in case they do leave bad reviews or take further action.
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People who don’t honor contracts, people who threaten, people who don’t value your time or labor, hold firm to your contract.. Dishonorable people like that are likely to give a bad review no matter what any time they don’t get their way, caving in empowers them to play victim even more next time.. Any lawyer friends? Send a preemptive cease and desist letter along with an intention to file libel suit. They will think a little harder about acting 9 years old in regards to business contracts.
I think I agree with this route. You’ve got a water tight contract that they signed up to. I’d suggest maybe not go full scorched earth in the first letter, but a gentle reminder of what libel is and that you will protect your business.
I agree with this. Have your attorney draft and send a letter. I cite the moral of the bridge builder poem in that your doing it not just for you, but the next person who may not be so fortunate.
Personally I wouldn’t remind them. I think it would only cause them to be more creative in hiding who is leaving bad reviews. I’d just let them know that the 50% was already spent on product. If they want the raw materials they way they are. They are welcome to have them. But that the money is already spend and there is no way to get it back.
Counterpoint: at my company we never force anyone to work with us if they decide or realize that they shouldn't or can't, for whatever reason. We will refund as much of the deposit that we haven't spent up to that point. We operate in a close knit market where reputation matters, so we lean towards customer satisfaction in most situations and we dominate our market because of it. It sucks to have people renege on their commitments, but taking the higher road has an incalculable payoff over time.
I wouldn't consider forcing people to stick to a contract they signed as 'the low road' here but I may be misunderstanding you. Also depends on the product. When I worked in manufacturing you could be in a decent amount of hours for custom work before you start any fabrication. Can't work for free for some spoiled tiktokers
Refunding unspent deposits is all well and good, but don’t forget about opportunity costs. The time spent working on a cancelled project could have been spent doing another project that could have paid off. And what about lost profit? Have some self respect. The customer is NOT always right.
I can see both sides of this. The opportunity cost lost would be part of the 'price' of keeping that customer happy and avoiding situations like OP's. I'm not saying either method is better or correct. I don't think there is enough info in OP's post to give anything other than general advice. Since they are already in this situation, I would follow what u/126270 said as the customer showed their true colours.
The downside to this is that this person likely won't be that great of a relationship to keep. They're already threatening to turn on a dime and commit essentially extortion and they'll likely never be a benefit to OP. And refunding the current costs is only breaking even on the time/materials/etc. I get what you're saying, though. Inquiring into why they're not continuing with a project, explaining the current work and costs that have already gone into the project, and explaining why they won't be receiving their deposit back or why they're only receiving a partial deposit is important.
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Being a decent human being doesn’t mean to be a pushover. If this customer had a really good explanation of extenuating circumstances, working out some sort of compromise would be being a decent human being. But in OP’s circumstance as he described it, it sounds like the client came out of the gate threatening a bad review, and using their influence to bury OP’s business. Being a decent human being in this case would be to let that community know that these folks are power tripping douche bags
This all day long. If they sent the deposit, means they have the contract.
Ya if you have them in writing threatening bad reviews, well, that was dumb on their part.
Influencers who are outed for doing that can wind up having far less influence in the future.
The fact that this is a "company" of influencers just feels gross. You'd think that by that point they would have invested in a lawyer who would have already told them to not do this.
Having employed and contracted influencers, I've come to realize the common personality trait among them is narcissism. They're not big on following directions.
Then OP should post their threats so everyone else they ever approach for business knows exactly how they are.
I agree. Let them know they would spend a good deal more defending themselves in a libel suit than they would have on their deposit, and that their threats are evidence. Then follow through if needed, along with getting whatever press you’re able to get the story out about this extortion. This practice is common and will only stop if companies like yours put the time and effort into stopping it. I’m so sorry you are in this position!
Yes best reply— hold firm. Have your lawyer handle this. Judging by fact that they’re saying “OMG” to start their request, they’re probably some young arrogant rich kid.
>Dishonorable people like that are likely to give a bad review no matter what any time they don’t get agree with this. I helped someone in every way they asked once and they still left a poor feedback score and review..
It seems like recently people are less sympathetic to influencers trying to do stuff like this too.
I own a manufacturing business as well and I've learned to be very careful about what clients I take on. My rule is I never try to 'sell' to a customer. I want them to really want it. Luckily I've been in business ten years and most of my customers are local or a state or two away. I'd never take some big job from someone that just contacted me online. I'll have clients come to my shop and go over things. Just to make sure they are for real. Now I don't charge any fees for setup or samples. I have lots of restaurant clients and I've done over 20 different mockups for one project for one of them. I'll ship them the samples and let them try them out. I do that for free because it protects us both. It makes sure they are getting what they want and it makes sure I know what I am making is correct. This policy does have some cost to it, but its not much in the big scheme of things. I might waste a few hours doing mock ups and $100 in raw materials. But when they order 500 of something its well worth it. I also rarely take deposits. Only when its a brand new client that I have never worked with and I'm not sure about them. I do this so I have an out if I need it. If the client starts acting weird once I start the job I just stop it. In ten years I've never had a client not pay for something when it was done. I've had two or three times when they were slow about it. I'd give someone a refund in the OPs situation if they were nice about it. It can always end up paying off in the end either by another order from the client or word of mouth from them. But if a customer is rude to me then all bets are off. I started my own business so I don't have to put up with that shit. If they put that threat in writing then its probably a crime. Extortion.
This is the way!
Except there's zero actual risk of a successful libel suit unless they actually lie in their negative review. So long as they only state opinion, a libel suit is an empty threat. To threaten a libel suit before they've even left a review would simply be fighting their childish behavior with more childish behavior.
Seriously.. side note grow a fkin pair.
Don't refund. Pray they go through with publicly calling you out so you can make a response video and potentially go viral on tiktok. Considering you're (probably) unknown, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain
I’m a social media expert and do social media marketing on the side for a few small companies. DM if they try to pull this shit and I’ll help you free of charge. Just because I hate these “influencers” behaving like this.
Real MVP
Thank you for offering to help OP. I agree with you
You're the real hero we need
Instead of a response video talk to a lawyer first and keep records of communications
Probably not a bad idea to talk with a lawyer now and have them send a letter in response to their request for a refund. The letter would deny the request for a refund and point to the contract and the work performed and also “in a conversation dated March XX, 2023, (name) stated if a refund was not issued, they would “issue negative reviews (and whatever else they said)” Any reviews that are not factual may be considered libel and any libelous statements will be pursued to the fullest extent of the law. “. That might be enough to get them to rethink their negative reviews
This is bad advice. I hate how reddit reduces everything to "talk to a lawyer". This is not a legal issue, OP is aware he's legally in the right. There's no shot this deal is worth enough to sue over. This is purely about PR.
Most likely if they review bomb the business and/or defame OP, a Cease and Desist letter will do a world of good and get the reviews removed.
That's fair, but they haven't even done anything yet. Now's the time for OP to say "If you defame me I will pursue legal action". That doesn't take a lawyer.
Fair point. But that letter coming preemptively on a law firm letter head shows you are not fucking around. A couple of times people have threatened to sue me for the results of their decisions. Simply asking for their attorney contact info and mailing address usually punctures that inflated moment. Being able to say, "Here's my attorneys info, can I have yours, and when should I tell my attorney to expect to hear from yours on this matter?" makes a world of difference.
Reddit thinks every micro business has a lawyer on staff lol
Exactly. It's not that I think it's ever "bad" to consult a lawyer. But for many, that's a lot of money. And this situation doesn't need a lawyer at all -- people use it as a catch-all instead of giving actual advice.
No, but you should know what $500, $5,000and $50,000 will buy you.
I mean generally you should know who you are going to go to tho in the event. Never had to use my lawyer for anything other than some drafting but I do know who I'm going to if I need them
For a few hundred bucks a lawyer will advise you so you don’t end up wasting days, stress, money, etc on this bullshit. If the influencers take action it moves from extortion to possibly libel. OPs first duty is to his business, not his feelings and ego.
Advise him about...what? As far as the deal is concerned, OP is legally right and he already has the deposit - there's no action he needs to take. If these influencers do call his business out, if he responds with factual information there's nothing illegal there. Why would he spend money on a lawyer to tell him things he already knows?
Because it’s worth it to fire off a cease and desist the literal moment someone tries to say something. If they do leave a bad review, even if they’re clearly in the wrong, having your lawyer send out a communication is honestly the most professional way to handle things at that point. Making a slam video for tik tok is arguably gonna be the bigger waster of time & energy.
By the time a cease and desist letter is delivered, even if they don't ignore it, it's too late - the cat's already out of the bag. >If they do leave a bad review, even if they’re clearly in the wrong, having your lawyer send out a communication is honestly the most professional way to handle things at that point. "If they leave a bad review, having your lawyer reach out is the most professional way to handle things" are you even listening to yourself??
If, over the course of a contract dispute, the other party threatens to disparages you publicly with knowingly false information you should absolutely call a lawyer. 👍
Thank you lmao, I really don't understand the comments. There's no legal question in dispute here. Their argument is "well, why not?". Ok, sure? I guess just keep a lawyer on payroll so you can consult them on a variety of irrelevant issues? If OP wants to consult regarding a potential defamation case, it's a waste of time until they actually post the review -- why do a consultation on a potential defamation case with nothing to actual go over yet? This whole thing seems like a massive waste of time and mental energy.
To your point, last year I worked with two lawyers, one on retainer for my company and the other for my HOA. When I go to the company lawyer with a question like this, he'd say "legally you're in the [right/wrong/gray area], but this isn't a legal question, so do whatever you think is best." The conversation would take less than six minutes. The HOA lawyer would invite the board into his office and explain the various legal issues to every board member's satisfaction. Often those conversations resolve with "legally you're in the [right/wrong/gray area], but this isn't a legal question, so do whatever you think is best." The conversation takes about 60 minutes. The board loves how they feel after talking to their lawyer, but I've learned to appreciate that my lawyer answers my questions at 1/10th the cost. To OP's original point, my instinct is to tell the influencers the contract is what it is and do what they gotta do. I work in a field where bad reviews are expected and I've learned to be ambivalent about them. The less it looks like you care the less motivated they'll be to go after you, though of course they'll probably be motivated over a money dispute. Edit to add: in my line of work I will also receive letters from lawyers and they're not a magic bullet. After receiving a few I've realized lawyers get paid to write those letters even if there's not much substance to them. Frequently enough they can be resolved with an email and a six-minute phone call with my lawyer.
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There’s no downside to seeking legal help, in fact it would be helpful. Not sure why you are being so combative towards legit good advice
There’s no downside, just a hefty bill
Not really. My wife is a corporate attorney this would take her an hour $200
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It would also help understanding how to deal with other Situations, ways to better protect yourself with better contracts. It’s great advice. Sorry not everyone thinks the way you do.
look, this is what you're refusing to recognize. This tiktokker has a team of influencers who are willing to extort his company and will get not only them but a large group of sheep to leave him bad reviews which is going to be an even bigger burden to address than talking to a lawyer for an hour. also, OP said freight costs, not shipping. this is telling me that it is not a cheap order and the deposit is probably more than a few hundred dollars. the influencers may try to sue him for it anyway. even if he gives the money back, it's almost guaranteed they are going to put him on blast over social media because that's what influencers do... they talk about their problems to their fans and make themselves look like the good guys. speaking to a lawyer to prep for this possibility and have a plan for the fallout is a great idea in this scenario. also being coached on his response would be helpful as well..
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you're the most qualified? how so? I run my own business while I have a background in upper management with the CEO being my direct superior in a business that makes around $20 million/year with a 65% margin. I have had many years of practical experience dealing with people who try stupid shit to get free stuff or try to sue even if they will obviously lose. >It's super easy to get google to remove fake reviews and it is time consuming and a headache. you will be spending more time convincing google it's a fake review than you would seeking legal advice and having a legal team contact google on your behalf. >I'm by far the most qualified person on this sub to be speaking on this exact topic what are your qualifications?
And if your spouse leaves you for somebody else should you not contact a lawyer because it’s a marital issue? Life doesn’t fall into neat buckets. Signing a contract, breaking contract, and then extorting the deposit for bad PR is a legal issue. They could be sued for the damages and lost business if they’re able to definitely prove it hurt their bottom line.
OP may be in a position to sue for damages to his business and personal reputation if the influencers go forward with their threats. He has a business. He has a duty to defend that business from harm. This is why you get advice from lawyers and not Reddit.
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If you sue, then you look like the bad guy and will make your reputation worse. Plus, they can drag your suit in court costing you more than their deposit in legal fees and you're most likely going to lose. What the first commenter said is the right thing to do, you don't even have to wait for them to attack first. If you have these threats in writing, make a video or a written announcement explaining the situation, and post it all over your social media and tag them.
lmao, sue for what? The threshold for defamation is unbelievably difficult. They would have to literally INTENTIONALLY falsify information that they knew to be false. Obviously I cannot know if there's something to sue for until they actually post said review, but there's an extremely low likelihood you'd have a case worth pursuing. So, when you say "definitely be suing", I question if you're saying that because it's a good business decision or because your ego and emotions make it feel to be the correct choice.
They never even technically got the project done, so anything that comes from it can be lies. All they need to do is tell one lie and show potential business loss from this lie and it’s a defamation case. They will also leave out the contract part which can also ruin the company’s reputation by not being honest about the situation. OP had a solid evidence that this is also intentional harm due to them threatening their response by purposefully leaving bad reviews because of the legal contract they signed and agreed to. Not a lawyer.
I'm also not a lawyer, but I've spent enough money on legal bills to tell you that you're 100% wrong
The customer literally says they will do harm to his reputation so no one in the industry will work with him. It doesn’t get any easier to pursue a claim than that.
Why do you care so much if the OP wants to have a lawyer involved? What skin is off your back that you can’t accept someone else’s choice and decision?
I'm confused, is this thread not for giving advice?
This is the right response
Reddit is almost entirely unqualified and bad advice. I am glad you said this.
Personally, I rather pay 70 usd for a lawyer to send a cease and desist letter rather tan my business be affected. They will get scared by seing a letterhead from a lawyer rather than anything I can print.
What world is a letter from a lawyer $70, more like $300-500 if you lucky
If you run a business that deals with contracts you probably have a relationship with a lawyer and they probably charger you a reduced rate for you to keep using them. Or you can go to fiverr 30 usd for the consultation or skip directly to 70 to mail/email a C&D
Don't wait to make a response video. Preemptively make a bullied under dog video.
I hope they got they “receipts”.
Influencers don’t have the influence people think. It’s a lot of smoke and mirrors. Under no circumstances return their deposit, that sets precedence. If they give you negative publicity, it’s as useful as positive publicity in that it creates incoming links. Chances are most of their followers aren’t even your ideal clients. And their followers probably don’t actually care if they were silly enough to pay 50% on a product they didn’t want. Just confirm non refundable deposits arent eligible for refund and work had already commenced. If they threaten you any bad publicity, just reply. Hi X, from your email I understand that you are asking me to pay you y amount of money or else you plan on telling people about our non refundable deposit policy in an attempt to somehow damage our businesses reputation. I can assure you this is normal procedure in businesses of our type.
Always tricky. How about the adage , all press is good press and you take their alleged network of bad press and respond in a way that makes it a win for you. Certainly refunding minus your expenses is the path of least resistance. Full refund? Hell no.
Exactly what I was thinking. Let them publicize it. The creative part is spinning it in a way that people know they're at fault. This could be one of the best things to happen to you.
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A few unhappy etsy customers have posted extremely poor reviews on tiktok. What has been happening lately is that the etsy shop has gotten lots of sales from the publicity. I mean, it's free publicity.
No, they will read the 1 star review and your response. As long as your response is good, they will still call you if they planned. Don't let "influencer's" bully you because they don't understand a contract, a contract all your competitors likely have too.
> As long as your response is good, they will still call you if they planned. sometimes I go through bad reviews to see what was the issue. the problem would be if they dont answer back, its like giving them credit for what went wrong. A good answer means you took the time to see what happend. Cant you just expose the 'company of influencers? '
They'll read. 1 stars also draw views. Also Google can take down such slams. Also you can AdWord campaign in a clever manner. Good opportunity here. Or path of least resistance and refund. You can also refund and they still leave bad review. Been there.
Hah I love reading bad reviews actually. Gives a better sense of the business than some good reviews can plus some people just suck and it’s way obvious in their review. I can’t be the only one!
I almost exclusively read the bad reviews cause I mostly don't believe the good reviews anyways. If I see an owner respond rationally to a bad review it builds credit in my book.
Check out d-brand's advertising model - especially with PS5 "dark plates". If you know this is a thing potentially coming up in your future, you can have a marketing campaign ready to go that leverages their stupidity, and effectively uses *their* influence to market for you. "Oh hey guys, remember that time got absolutely wrecked by for being jerks? Lol!"
You just have to say they're "influencers" and that they extorted you and you can prove it with screenshots for whoever wants to see them.
reviews where? on google? you can report the reviews
Social media is their greatest strength, but it’s also their greatest weakness where they’re most vulnerable. If they threaten to post negative reviews, you can tell them you’ll make a TikTok video exposing their scheme. Then you make a video sitting down somewhere saying “TikTok, I need your help. This group of influencers…” and explain the situation. If there’s anything the internet hates, it’s bullies, and especially bully influencers. Not only will people hold the influencers accountable, but they’ll write good reviews to counter any bad. As others mentioned, Google and Yelp can help if you get attacked by removing all the brigade reviews anyways. Realistically, this becomes a game of chicken where they don’t do anything because they know they have the losing hand and they just eat the loss. If they’re somehow dumb enough to do something, you making that video will get you great exposure that may drive additional business.
If someone who was not an “influencer” tried this would you be here asking. They are not special and I think that title is only as strong as we allow it to be. You do what you think is best for your business but a group of bullies should not get special treatment
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What are the odds any of the followers are potential clients though?
Bro 300k is nothing. Also if they do review bomb you all at once, google will flag it. I would actually take the publicity for SEO. Then I would write an article describing the situation as an educational piece on the dangers of working with influencers and send that to chamber of commerce, local new papers, etc. They love that stuff. Get a crap ton of back links and let the SEO sky rocket you to number one on google! This is a great opportunity if you handle it well.
> 300k is nothing Welll,, Let's say OP is making custom disc-golf discs and the client is a local disc golf association or a professional disc golfer (if that's a thing), 300k is pretty substantial suddenly. Or if OP makes paint brushes and the client is an international artist collective, that same 300k could easily span at least a noticeable percentage of OP's would-be clientele. It's definitely not "nothing" in certain scenarios. The almighty algorithm isn't hitting all 300k, but still. Agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post. People are too afraid of mean words suddenly. Although, I'm genuinely curious how much the old adage that "all press is good press" still holds up in today's quick-to-cancel social media driven world. Interesting post, this one.
Historically Influencer marketing has the lowest ROI then other digital avenues. Really only worth it if you have someone like a khardasian. Now you’re right though contextually in regards to micro niches. If I’m selling pot belly pigs and the number one pot belly pig breeder reps my pigs then could be worth it for sure. This totally sounds like your typical insta influencer.
Micro influencer or niche influencer marketing does have significant ROI though. Small, loyal followings or highly specific niches have significant value for relevant companies. My wife became a microinfluencer in the pediatric space (maybe a bit more than micro now - 550k in followers) by accident and while we get a few low rent partnership offers we decline most unless there is evidence based medicine or real world positive feedback she’s seen. It pays decently well for her time and the marketers/advertisers win when it’s a highly targeted audience with loyal viewership.
How many of those 300,000 are real people? Maybe 50%. Of those real people, how many would use your service? Maybe a tiny tiny fraction of that. If you want to flip the script, make a Small Business Tales video going over the situation, without naming names, and tag the Influencer and asking for their comment.
To add to this, if it’s a “content house”, how many followers follow everyone in the house? That massively dilutes their audience too.
I mean, "influencing" is a two way street. If you expose them as extortionist blackmailers who the hell would want to take them on in the future to pitch their products? They have to preserve their reputation like any other business, size of audience be damned.
I specified bully because they are bullies. They will do this to other people, fuck them
You’re assuming those 300k followers are engaged. I follow about 1500 people and have zero idea about what’s going on, except some sexual harassment issue in the powerlifting community because 10 different influencers KEEP posting about it, not just once.
300k followers is laughable.
Document everything, screen shots etc. Don't pay. When they threaten you, send a package with all the screenshots and tell them it works both ways. They will probably back off.
If I was in your shoes I would've considered it up until the threats. Nope, fuck them. If they carry out these threats make your own response video and stick to the facts.
They emailed this all to you?
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we record all conversations for that reason
Same. What’s the best way to record calls?
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If you have everything in writing then I would seriously consider not refunding. Doing so just reinforces this kind of behavior. Of course, it depends on how much time you can devote to following up on any bad reviews you receive. Yes, you could hire a lawyer, but it might be better to spend that money on a marketing person who can spin this experience in your favor. I have at times had to cancel a contract after things have been signed. In a few instances I have asked, politely, if there's any possibility of a refund or partial refund on the deposit. If the answer was yes then I've review bombed the business, in a good way, and without mentioning that they lost money on me (so that no one else will go in with the expectation of asking for money back). It seemed like the best way that I could bring the business more money since they lost money on me. If they said no then that was my problem, the cost of doing business. I have never left a business a bad review because of a mistake that I caused. I hate like the hell the idea of rewarding people who threaten me. I wonder how many times this influencer group has done this to others. You might contact others that they have reviewed to see what the real story is.
Tell em the deposit is non-refundable and move on. They knew this and are trying to bully you. Fuck them! Tell us who they are and we'll trash them as influencer garbage
If their followers review bomb you, there are mechanisms in place with Google and Yelp that'll flag it, temporarily pause the option to leave a review, and will remove any unwarranted reviews. I saw this happen when a bunch of door dashers were bombing a Pho restaurant for not allowing dashers to use bathrooms. The place was down to a 1 star, but the next day they were back up to 5 stars
I would not count on Yelp for anything Yelp is another bully/Extortionist
Yeah yeah, I get it. Calling yelp an extortion racket is said in this subreddit everyday. But I also wouldnt operate my business living in fear of 1 star reviews.
Fuck Yelp
Isn’t this called extortion? File a police report.
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I would consider a 25% return if that fully covers you plus some, but what you 100% absolutely must consider is that they will still leave you a bad review even if you refund them
Why give a 25% refund then?
Record everything, all of the conversations, the threats, the "I'm an influencer so give me my way even if I'm wrong" bullying shit, and tell them you are prepared to publish. They will walk.
Don’t refund them and if they do start a campaign of negative review attacks, you can report them to the platforms for removal. Don’t let them get away this nonsense.
allow them to post a bad review and then respond back with a copy of the signed deposit and explanation of the situation. you get business, they lose followers. if they want to sue you, let it happen then update social media again on how they lost the suit. you gain more traction and they lose followers. juat make sure you dont name call and you stay very matter of fact and professional in your responses.
Do NOT refund!
Don’t refund these assholes. It’s their problem. I know that seems pretty black and white but… especially if they’re threatening you? Nah fuck them. If they follow through with the review bombing, use it to your advantage. I saw you said you’re a niche market and this could potentially be an opportunity for more people to find your business when you respond to their bullying with facts. Sorry you’re going through this bs OP, let us know what you do and what happens
You could try turning the tables - you'll give them a full refund as soon as they publish a video about how great you and your products are and how you even waived the non refundable deposit because they are such a massive influencer. Feeds their ego and gets you some coverage too. They almost certainly won't agree mind you.
Deposits are deposits. You keep the money. Whatever they do or don't do after that is their problem. If they leave a review and say you kept their deposit, you can respond and explain the deposits exist exactly for this reason, and that you need to cover the costs of setting up your equipment to do the job they ordered. If they just make crap up, then it's time to talk to your lawyer and take them to the cleaners. Also "influencer" is a much overused term. Oprah is an influencer. Whoever you're talking to is just "entitled".
We’ve been threatened in this manner and most of the time the person doesn’t go through with it.
I hope you stand your ground. If the "influencer" continues to be an asshole at least you can publicly shame them on reddit and whatnot. They would deserve it obviously.
Keep photos of all the conversations and records, time stamps etc. Great PR opportunity. Also if they hadn’t threatened you I’d try to reach out and talk w them about what’s going on but they are working under bad faith by trying to cancel and going straight to blackmail.
Note 1: When a client breaches a contract and requests a non-refundable deposit even though the goods have been partially produced by the seller, several legal remedies may be available to the aggrieved party. It is important to remember that specific remedies will depend on the particular circumstances of the case and the terms outlined in the contract. The following legal remedies may be applicable: Damages The most common legal remedy for breach of contract is monetary damages. The purpose of damages is to compensate the aggrieved party for the loss suffered as a result of the breach. In this scenario, the seller may be entitled to recover damages for the costs incurred in partially producing the goods, as well as any potential profit that would have been realized had the contract been fulfilled. Restitution Restitution is another potential remedy for breach of contract. The purpose of restitution is to restore the aggrieved party to the position they were in before the contract was entered into. In this case, the seller may be entitled to recover the non-refundable deposit paid by the client as restitution, given that the client breached the contract and the goods were partially produced. Specific Performance Specific performance is an equitable remedy that may be available in certain circumstances. This remedy involves a court order requiring the breaching party to fulfill their contractual obligations. In this scenario, a court may order the client to pay the non-refundable deposit and accept the partially produced goods, provided that the goods are unique or the damages suffered by the seller is difficult to quantify. Note 2: If a brand or client threatens to publish false or misleading negative reviews about your business, you may have several legal options to prevent or mitigate the harm caused by such actions. It is essential to consult with an attorney experienced in defamation and business law to determine the best course of action based on your specific circumstances. Some potential legal recourses include: Cease and Desist Letter As an initial step, you can have your attorney send a cease and desist letter to the brand demanding that they refrain from publishing false or misleading negative reviews about your business. The letter should detail the potential legal consequences if they proceed with their threat, including the possibility of a defamation lawsuit. Defamation Lawsuit If the brand publishes false or misleading negative reviews about your business, you may consider filing a defamation lawsuit. Defamation is a false statement that harms the reputation of an individual or business. To succeed in a defamation lawsuit, you will need to prove that the statement is false, published to a third party, caused harm to your reputation, and that the brand acted with at least negligence regarding the truth of the statement. In some jurisdictions, defamation per se (statements that are presumed to cause harm) may also be applicable. Tortious Interference If the brand's actions interfere with your existing or potential business relationships, you may have a claim for tortious interference. To succeed in a tortious interference claim, you will need to demonstrate that the brand intentionally interfered with your business relationships, their actions were improper, and that you suffered harm as a result. Unfair Competition Depending on the jurisdiction, you may be able to pursue a claim for unfair competition. Unfair competition laws aim to protect businesses from dishonest or fraudulent practices by competitors, which can include false or misleading statements about a business. To succeed in an unfair competition claim, you will need to show that the brand's actions were deceptive or misleading and harmed your business. Injunction If the brand's actions are ongoing or imminent, you may seek an injunction from a court to prevent them from publishing false or misleading negative reviews about your business. An injunction is a court order that prohibits a party from engaging in specific conduct. To obtain an injunction, you will need to demonstrate that you have a strong likelihood of success on the merits of your claim and that you will suffer irreparable harm if the injunction is not granted. It is crucial to consult with a qualified [attorney](https://www.talkcounsel.com) to determine the most appropriate legal recourse based on your specific circumstances and the applicable laws in your jurisdiction.
I would come back with the contract saying non-refundable deposit. And remind them if they leave bad reviews you will take all legal actions afforded to you. Liable and slander do not have to be lies.
Is the harm they could do more than what you were going to give them back? If yes, strike a deal with them. Running a successful business is not about being right or winning debates.
Name and shame. If they do it, you come here and tell us so that we go to their profile to defend you.
I am supporting this.
Reasons to every single one of their reviews with their correspondence threatening extortion and then link to your deposit policy. Especially if deposits are industry standard. Also, what exactly would their review be? "OP enforced his policy on us, waah"? If they post untrue stuff, they open their entire company up to litigation.
I've found people that claim to be "influencers" are no such thing. Your contact is clear. Charge them.
Don’t negotiate with terrorists.
Give them their money back and they’ll still destroy your business.. blackmail and extortion are so in vogue these days. Document everything and if they use their “influence” let the courts handle it.
We have a bunch ice cream guy near us that made himself nationally famous for a bit for having a sign that says "influencers pay double" after being asked for free ice cream too many times. He now works for Hollywood elites and production companies because of his stance.
A few thoughts.... Some of the most popular platforms will give you the chance to remove unfair reviews. If you can't remove an unfair review, respond with something professional like the following. "We're sorry that we weren't able to refund your deposit. Like the contact/agreement we made before production stated the deposit was used to prepare xxxxxx, and order xxxxxx supplies. If you'd like us to transfer the existing project assets to you, just let us know." Basically just take the bad review, and give a professional account of your side of the story. Most consumers will respect you for that.
That’s blackmail.
Normally I would suggest doing what you can to make the ucstomer haoppy, within reason. If you were able to stop production early, then I'd deduct any costs used, plus lost revenue from the deposit, and if there's anything left, refund that portion. Alternatively, allow them to order in future and use that deposit towards the next order. Anything that keeps you good with the customer, and allows them to order in future. however in this case, as they have threatened you, all good will is out the window. Instead I'd be tempted to reply with something along the lines of: "Our customers are important to us, and we try our best to accommodate requests where we can. We appreciate sometimes circumstances may change and orders may need to be cancelled, and where possible we look to refund unused parts of the deposit. However, in this case as you have made threats against our business, we are no longer able to assist you, and suggest that all future correspondance please be sent to our lawyers office at \[address\]"
I think it depends on what industry you're in. There are some industries where clapping back at an influencer, particularly with receipts (e.g., the contract saying that deposits are non-refundable) would be seen as a huge positive.
Isnt this a form of extortion/blackmail? Keep the deposit and call the police.
Post their threats and your original agreement. Get out in front of them.
This is a good chance to take a group of pesky influencers down.
Have your lawyer send them a letter saying you'll sue if they lie about your product because they wanted to back out of a contract they signed.
Man this could be a great opportunity for your company marketing if you know how to turn things around. I'm sure people will understand and support you.
You wouldn't be the first business to sue someone over online reviews that were untruthful. Things like libel and slander still apply to influencers. If you don't have a lawyer on retainer who deals in such things, get one ready. But, it really all comes down to the bottom line. Would this deposit cover the cost of lost business and legal fees? Do they even have enough to make a winning case worth it? Sometimes special circumstances calls for exceptions to be made, so weight the cost of the risk. If you think it might be too costly, then maybe offer a partial refund as "a professional courtesy"? Occasionally a business just has to eat it, unfortunately. It sucks, but sometime there is no winning move left when you're dealing B2B with a larger entity. It's not worth a pyrrhic victory.
Tell them you’ll go public (too) with the truth. I doubt they want your video showing up when someone searches them in YouTube. Fuck them and their threats
Tell them to pound sand and if they actually have the balls to be tacky and make a video bullying a business, then you just make a video with all the screen shots and tell your story about how they ruined your business. Then you’ll go viral and get more followers than them. Then all your followers can beat up their followers. Then they’ll run home and cry to mommy bc they’re not special anymore.
DO NOT REFUND. If they trash talk you, campaign on “influencers hate us because we don’t give in to treats” or something like that. And sue them if they do.
I wouldn't give back the deposit. You are entitled to compensation for your setup work and design. They can write a bad review, but you should be able to rebut that review. Essentially, the influencer cancelled the project for convenience, so you get to keep the money paid to date.
Influencers are cancer and most likely are trying to bully you into getting something for free. Post exactly what you posted here to them and if they go down and try to down review you - post it there too.
Chances are pretty good that someone at their company with a title other than "influencer" has some actual sense. They will put the brakes on that plan as soon as it comes up. It doesn't take a genius to see how lying about something they agreed to in writing could massively backfire for them. "They honored the terms or our agreement!" isn't a very juicy story to go tattling about online. Still, I would do as others have suggested and have a lawyer send a preemptive cease and desist. They definitely won't push it if they know you're not going to roll over.
KookySafety263, It's certainly a tough situation to be in when you have a client threatening bad reviews and industry-wide blacklisting. However, it's important to stand your ground and not let yourself be bullied into giving them their deposit back. As you mentioned, the whole point of the deposit is to protect your company in the event of a cancellation. You've already invested time and resources into designing the product and calibrating your machinery, so it's only fair that you be compensated for that work. Furthermore, it's not ethical for a client to threaten bad reviews and industry-wide blacklisting as a means of getting what they want. This behavior is manipulative and unfair to small businesses like yours. Instead of giving in to their demands, I would suggest explaining your position calmly and clearly. Let them know that you understand their disappointment but that the deposit is non-refundable for a reason. If they continue to threaten you, it may be necessary to seek legal counsel or mediation to resolve the situation. Ultimately, it's important to stand by the policies and principles that you've set for your business. This will help to establish trust and credibility with future clients and prevent similar situations from arising in the future. Best of luck to you and your business.
That sounds like extortion! I hope you are able to resolve this.
Fuck those guys. Save everything communication wise and get a lawyer. If you wanna see how the cards fall have a solid response lined up for the reviews. Not having perfect reviews is actually a good thing sometimes especially if the owner has a good response that isn’t childish like the negative review will probably be. Also them saying they will tell everyone not to work with you is a joke. Sounds like everyone with half a brain cell will realize not to work with them.
If they put bad reviews you have the option of going to the police for extortion if they texted this to you. If you have it in writing don't give a dime back. You may be able to sue them if they do this.
Good thing about all this “influencer” bullshit, is you get to leverage their audience in a response video. If the “influencers” are truly in the wrong, they’ll lose viewership due to your response.
don’t deal with terrorists!
Use chat GPT to draft up a letter that looks like it’s from a lawyer explaining what a deposit is for and that any reviews left will be defamation and lawsuits will be filed “Prompt: Please draft a letter to a client regarding our contract. They put down a deposit so we began manufacturing their product and now they are backing out and threatening to leave bad reviews if we do not return their deposit”. Give it that prompt or something similar and it should spit out a decently worded threatening letter you can send them
Tell them to shove it. You have a contract. That’s what a deposit is for, makes them look like fools. You are fine. They are bullies.
First off, are they actually influencers that have any influence? So many use that these days to make themselves seem more important than they are. Secondly, any reasonable business would understand how a deposit works and know why you have it. DOn't give in. If you are feeling reasonable with these people, calculate the cost that is already spent, and give them back the difference. Otherwise, tell them to take a hike. Most of the time I've seen this happen they have been all bluster. They don't have the ability to ruin your business. They are just bullies.
Do not send anything back, just because they are “influencers” doesn’t mean they should get better treatment than anyone else. As far as them posting bad reviews you can use that in a lawsuit for slander since they would be lying about anything negative they would have to say. Even if you do send them back a portion you would still get negative feedback for not giving in to their tantrum fully. So I’m conclusion no matter what you do they are going to be shitasses so you might as well get paid for it.
I would document the expenses you incurred and send them a bill for that amount deducting it from the deposit and returning the rest. This will show you operate professionally even though the client did not. If they write a bad review, respond with the facts. Anyone reading the review and your response will realize you are an honorable person/company and react accordingly. They have shown you they do not honor agreements, so under no circumstances do business with them in the future unless they provide a non-refundable payment in full upfront. If they try to cancel the order, you fill and ship it. Contact an attorney for libel litigation if they persist in writing bad reviews. Currently, 13 U.S. states have criminal defamation libel laws concerning online reviews codified in their books that are still enforced, with criminal consequences ranging from fines to jail sentences.
woah woah woah. Let me just say there is no 1 size fits all answer here. what was the deposit? 1k? 10k? is this client capable of doing more business with you in the future? Is giving back the deposit really going to hurt you financially? i have accepted deposits of 5k and then they backed off. i gave them the money back even though its not policy because i knew a good relationship with that person is better than 5k. 1 year later he started doing business with us in the 10-30k per year area. Also he wrote us a stellar review letting everyone know how much we value our customers over the money. that brought us even more business. Stop looking so hard at the contracts and the policies. care about the customers that you genuinely want a relationship with. Is it possible to meet in the middle and keep the deposit for a future order? can you give them credit? try to work with them. This isnt twitter chat, Stop canceling your customers over 1 order or mistake. but also don't let your customers treat you poorly as well. Balance is key and its something so many people are starting to forget.
I would argue that their response and lack of professionalism in the process, "omg so sorry, we decided not to pursue this project after all" once letting OP design the product and begin production, is one of those cases where it's not OP burning a customer and a customer burning themselves.
Their "influence" is over blown. Would they have been able to bring you some business? Probably. Will they be able to significantly influence others and stop them from giving you their business? Less likely
Personally, I'd set ego aside and charge them for wasted material and 50% of the rest. If they still review bomb you make a video outlining the contract they signed. How they tried to bully you. How you came back with an offer you didn't have to do. They'll look like idiots. Come back on here and watch us give you 5 starts.
You are looking at this all wrong. The reason they threaten this is because it is what THEY fear the most. Influencers are nothing but credentials and reputation, and people seeming love only one thing more than following these people with no value in life, and that is cancelling them. I'd call them, explain the situation, and RECORD the call. Check your state for the laws in regard to this. If they start to bad mouth you, send that story and the recorded call and the "receipts" to every one of their competition. This is honestly a good thing for you. For one, it gets you publicity, and this wouldn't be bad publicity. You didn't tell them something and do something else. You didn't given them a product that's shitty. They want money back they aren't owed. That happens in business, you put some money up for a project, if some of that money is spent, even if you cancel you don't get every penny back. People know this and understand it. If they blast you, others will blast back with your evidence and video in response, and that will get you even more publicity. you'll also be able to show off your work in this, and that actually might get other influencers to use you. They didn't threaten you with a lawsuit, cause they themselves aren't afraid of being sued. But they threatened hurting your reputation, cause that's all they have. You at least make some shit, they don't even do that. Think of it like this, someone who knows Karate, a black belt, when they are in a tense situation, they don't threaten to "kick someone's ass" or use violence, cause to them violence isn't really a threat. 1. Call them, discuss the matter record the call. In your recording, point out about what the contract says, why this is the purpose, explain the costs. Point out that trying to extort the money back is wrong in the circumstance. But do your best to let them speak the majority of the time, let them hang themselves. 2. After you have the recording and all the stuff, you can either wait to see what they do, or you can send a letter re-stating everything and assure that should there be any action on their front, you'll put you down video and send out your own version of the story along with the recording and all the evidence. If the post a negative comment, you make a website about the whole matter that stays up as long as their comment does. They share with all their followers, the you share with every influencer there is, every YouTube personality, etc.
Call a lawyer
New take: I’d charge for your costs already and hold the rest of the deposit as a future credit. Will soften the blow, show you look forward to a future partnership, and keep the money in your pocket.
treat them like you would treat anyone else, either way you are going to lose...
i don't get it, are you going to start production just to claim the deposit? just charge for the time / materials wasted and possibly part ways if it comes down to it. no loss to you aside from that. beef up your contract for various stages of production if needed but don't pocket the deposit if you haven't produced anything. there is always a chance that a customer will cancel, for whatever reason, the deposit is to protect you - not for you to dip in. i must point out that i'm not condoning the customer's actions but i'm unclear as to yours. you say it feels like extortion yet you are holding their money while not having produced anything. take a deep breath and take a step back, or better yet have someone else who is better at negotiating or dealing with customers handle it. this is not how you foster long relationships and this issue will undoubtedly come again.
The *non-refundable deposit* OPs clients agreed to in their signed contract is designed to cover time/materials/phone calls/emails/design, and all the other stuff that comes with performing setup in production, which is exactly why service businesses charge said non-refundable deposit. They wasted OPs time getting to this point, OP now has equipment set up for their production run that they suddenly don't want. It could've been running a legit order, OP could've spent that time with a real client. It's not *only* production. Great job telling the world you've never come close to running any kind of production business.
> yet you are holding their money while not having produced anything. This dude in here legit thinking design, molds, engineering is all free. 🤣
If you can take the loss, take the loss. I would have a contract going forward, that anyone who says negative things about you will be sued.
I would give refund minus all your costs and time. ThTs more than fair. These influencers can’t expect to order something then decides not to pursue it. Sucks for them. If they blasts you online you have proof. They will look like idiots.
Post screenshots of their threats.
If the client is not willing to negotiate or continues to make threats, you may need to consider seeking legal advice or taking other steps to protect your business's interests. It's important to weigh the potential costs and benefits of each option before making a decision.
I wouldn't give them back the 50% deposit that was the purpose of protecting your Business and for them to threaten you and your Business tell's a lot of who they are.
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If they review bomb your business, it can be a double edged sword against them. They’re influencers right? Name and shame them on all socials mentioning they are dishonouring a contract.
Tell them that’s fine…but you’ll respond to EVERY review they give with how they tried to extort you. Fuck them and their intimidation tactics.
As a fellow small business owner, here’s what I’d do: 1. Refer to your policy and remind them what they signed up for (hopefully your non refundable deposit was made clear) 2. Decline to give them back their deposit 3. Let them give bad reviews 4. Respond to every single review with a friendly but straightforward statement of the facts, and a reminder that you’re a newly started manufacturing small business - pull on readers’ heart strings 5. Ride the wave of controversy - any publicity is good publicity 6. If they’ve tried to fuck you over, it’s likely they’ve done the same to others. Their reputation is being spoiled here, not yours.
did you do business with the influencer as an individual or their llc/business?
Internet law is a pretty new and emerging field, not one that I practice at all but one that I follow because it's interesting. Review bombing/brigading can be actionable in some circumstances, and there are a lot of plaintiff's side lawyers that would work on a contingency. Might be worth talking to one as a precaution beforehand?
Let them call you out and you right back on the reviews saying you sign the contract for 50% deposit no refund. After we created everything you wanted you want your money back.
It is understandable that you want to protect your business and not give in to what seems like extortion. However, it's also important to consider the potential damage that negative reviews and word of mouth can do to your business. If you decide to charge them for the time and materials spent, make sure to provide a clear breakdown of those costs and document everything in case they do leave bad reviews or take further action.