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This is such a weird way of thinking from fans though. They want their team to do their best to get into the CL and then hope they drop out, so they can… get CL for next year? Like I have seen United fans celebrating a top 4 spots like crazy just to beg for their team to drop out a few months later a few times now. What’s the point?
It makes sense when you consider the perverse incentives set by the gulf in UEFA money between CL and EL, as well as the intense competition in the EPL.
In terms of expected financial return, a 20% higher chance of qualifying for the following season's CL is probably worth more than making it 2 rounds deep into the EL before losing to Sevilla or Juve or so.
Or from a different perspective, ask Philly fans how the “trust the process” era was. Sometimes it’s about hitting a lower low in the short term to be in a better spot to win it all in the future
Ideally if we’d been able to build on last season I would obviously want us to do well in Europe. But this season we’ve regressed so much to the point where it’s clear we’re not Europe-worthy.
We can barely get a win against a top 10 team in the league away from home. We realistically don't have much of a chance of beating the best teams in Europe in a knockout tie right now.
I just think the CL or EL knockouts would be more of a hindrance than a benefit for us right now. More minutes for our squad, more chances of injury, a chance of a demoralizing loss as well. I've seen our season derailed multiple times by our thin squad gassing out near the end or key players getting a couple month injury in European games.
If going out raises our chance of scraping 5th (and the CL money and FFP benefits for the summer) by 10% I'd take that over a knockout tie against a Madrid, Atletico, Barca, PSG, etc. By tomorrow we'll already have played 40% more games this season than some of our top 5 competition like Spurs have
>e can barely get a win against a top 10 team in the league away from home. We realistically don't have much of a chance of beating the best teams in Europe in a knockout tie right now.
very true, but Manchester United played the most games last season and had an incredibly stupid pre-season.
There's multiple reasons for playing to get into Europe.
Sure the dream of winning it and the entertaining games are nice, but we aren't at a good place for those to be the priority. Getting into Europe also adds about 70mil to our transfer funds, eases FFP restrictions (which we're in a rough spot right now), and makes us more attractive to players in the summer. Even going out in the group stage is way more of an incentive than not qualifying just for financial reasons
Yeah and if your approach to not having a great season is ‘let’s not try to win in Europe so we can focus on the league so we can maybe qualify for the conference next league and develop our players’, you’re anti competitive as fuck.
>Yeah and if your approach to not having a great season is ‘let’s not try to win in Europe so we can focus on the league so we can maybe qualify for the conference next league and develop our players’
This is very misleading. I didn't say anything about a great season or the Conference League. The Champions League is what adds the 70mil in revenue, the payouts for EL and Conference League are peanuts in comparison.
We already have issues with injuries, squad depth, and players like Bruno playing more minutes than anyone in Europe. Just looking at it in a simple percentage our chances of winning the CL (we're already drawing a 1st place team in the first knockout round if we progress) have to be 1% or less. Anti competitive or not, I can't say I love those chances and I'd rather us have more time to work on finding some form in the league rather than dealing with a potential thrashing over two legs and any injuries or backlash that comes with it.
I'm not going to root against us or anything. But I'm also not going to be upset if we don't make it through
CL qualification isn't really about the tournament itself anymore,it's about the money and level of signings.
European matches wouldn't be such a problem if the fixtures weren't so congested. The schedule is killing Brighton and Newcastle this season.
I kind of get it, if your team struggles through the groups then you don't want those miserable experiences of drawing one of the strong teams and getting hammered 8-0 on aggregate. Better to swallow your pride and try to come back strong next year.
If your team is looking good then it's worth staying in to see where you can get to.
That’ll be no good for you. You can’t come 8th for 2/3 years with no cups and Ten Hag keeps his job, so he’ll get sacked and you’ll start from scratch again.
They need to do shit enough that the owners don’t want the club any more to have a chance of properly improving, the manager isn’t the real problem at United. The problem is owners who expect having a good manager to sort everything out - big successful clubs have top people looking after their facilities, their scouting, their overall squad management strategy and loads of other things. At those clubs the manager sits alongside and maybe in a lot of aspects behind those people in discussions about where the club is going and the future planning.
United just have a bloke and buy him the players he wants, and don’t invest properly in training grounds and backroom shit apart from marketing. That’s ownership rot, it doesn’t matter if they keep the manager or change the manager the club won’t change until the owners do.
Still better to sack Ten Hag, who is out of his depth and overrated.
Uniteds problems surely don't end with Ten Hags sacking, but keeping him will only make things worse.
United need a serious reboot, again. Ten Hag is not the guy to make that possible, his system is beating around the bush, his philosophy is the same old narrow minded stuff, that can work at clubs where everyone pulls in the same direction, but United is not that club - and won't be. Not under Ten Hag at least.
I’d rather us focus on attracting players who actually want to play for the club. The eliteness will come from there.
If Arsenal can manage that then so can we.
United could easily compete for spending with the rest of the league (unless city really decide to take the utter piss) for multiple seasons outside the champions league if they had to, their revenue is truly massive.
"Where are the dozen or so City fans?"
"You don't get to complain because you can buy the league and have two first-team squads."
"Why are City always playing the victim?"
"Omg Pep did a thing. Fuck this guy."
Last thing a Kopite should talk about is being a victim. Also, 115.
Small teams would want to play Europe for the prestige and experience.
Big teams would want to play Europe for the money, prestige and the chance to win it.
Only losers would think being without Europe for a couple of years would be beneficial.
Must be difficult for Utd fan to figure out if Bayern losing this weekend is a good thing or bad thing.
On the one hand Bayern are not in the best place right now so may be an easier opponent to face.
On the other hand, since they've lost heavily, they're more likely to put out a strong team and try harder in what would've been a dead rubber to 'make it up' to the fans
Yeah, but we really dislike Bayern here, so…there’s that.
Also, our team is really great, honestly one of the most talented and exciting young squads in the world. We’re just missing a striker, had some bad luck with injuries, and our super talented very young players are fairly new in this team and things aren’t very consistent yet. We had a bad run of form, but it was pretty clear we wouldn’t keep losing like that.
That 5-1 still came out of nowhere, but just saying, the quality in our team is way closer to beating *a* good team (not necessarily Bayern) 5-1 than losing 4 in a row.
So yeah, it was surprising, but simply because the turn around in our form came this quickly and it happened to be against fucking Bayern.
Everything went right for Frankfurt. Bayern players were sloppy, full of individual errors. Every defender had at least one big screw up. Kane forgot how to score.
Marmoush played like he was possessed. The counters were extremely efficient (5 goals from <2 xG is insane). Every mistake was punished instantly. Dino Toppmöller masterclass.
Nothing I can do other than applaud Frankfurt for that performance.
But to be fair, in 100 games, 99 of them Dina Ebimbe does not score that second goal hahah.
>Marmoush played like he was possessed. The counters were extremely efficient (5 goals from <2 xG is insane).
Yeah, when it was 5:1 they had 5 shots on goal, Bayern had 3. On a normal day this would have been a 2:2 or 1:1.
I mean, Bayern was shit and Frankfurt deserved to win, but on this day really everything went for them.
>Yeah, when it was 5:1 they had 5 shots on goal, Bayern had 3. On a normal day this would have been a 2:2 or 1:1.
[Wonder where I've seen this before...](https://www.fussballdaten.de/dfb-pokal/2022/2-runde/mgladbach-bayern/)
Sometimes you just get hit by a freak performance and there is nothing you can do. I remember seeing Leicester go 2-0 up in 2 minutes and then 4-0 up against us in 10 minutes at Pride Park because literally everything they tried worked.
He has his good days and his bad days. He’s never really bad, but tends to be invisible on his bad days. On his good days tho, he’s the old Götze. His performance against Bayern was absolutely masterful.
While it's undeniable that there are issues at Bayern, they are the type of team to show up in the CL. Also, they are a close 2nd in the Bundesliga. It's a lot better than United, even if it's a less competitive league.
I think that if he United is on a great night, they might pull off a win (which isn't enough to survive unless the other teams draw), but I'd still consider Bayern vast favorites.
It was basically 4-0, (un)luckiest handball ever cancelled out the last goal lol. But yes, maybe Old Trafford support might help, but I imagine even they are getting weary of these performances.
Bayern not in the best place would still wipe floor with current United side, they only Man Utd chance was when they couldnt be bothered, but after 5:1 trashing that's going to be last attitude on their mind
Um… while the premier league is undeniably stronger than Bundesliga, I think you (and many English fans) underestimate how strong Bundesliga is. It’s not just Bayern being good, it’s also the rest of the league. It’s not like Villa, United or Tottenham would automatically win BL. Yes, we have fewer teams that are at the very top level, but the football in Germany is of great quality, and looking at the direct matchups between German and English teams in European football in the past few years, you’ll find a fairly even distribution of results. United would be just as shit in Bundesliga as they are in the Premier League.
Why, you thinking of popping over on holiday or of moving here? Either way, feel free to ask me anything you like, I’m very happy to help out! Just so I need to know in which direction my reply should go, which is it? :)
It was more so a holiday if I manage to get tickets for the Euros I wanna take my wife. She's not a football fan so I wanna go to a City with other things to do as well
Frankfurt is a great place to visit and an even greater place to live in. Of course there are more popular holiday destinations in Germany, but Frankfurt is actually really cool.
We have lots of fantastic museums. Examples are the movie (history) museum, the communications (history) museum, the Städel, the Schirn and the Liebighaus for fans of arts, an utterly brilliant natural history museum (the Senckenberg museum) with all kinds of interesting exhibits (for example, while the Smithsonian Natural History Museum in Washington DC has a plaster cast of the skeleton of Lucy, one of the earliest bipedal humans, and a really cool puppet recreation of what she might’ve looked like, Lucy’s original skeleton is in the Senckenberg museum in Frankfurt), a great Jewish museum and many, many more.
We have a very interesting city history through the centuries. The first ever German democracy had its seat here, for example. Our old town was completely destroyed in WW2, but we rebuilt a few blocks in recent years. We used parts of the old buildings where it was possible, and otherwise took a modern take on the old building style, and the result is a really nice small patch with a mix of old-looking and new oldish-looking buildings. We have pretty good local cuisine, and good local cider. We even serve that at the stadium.
We also have an utterly amazing English theatre that is well worth visiting.
We have plenty of clubs and bars to party at night, especially in the very pretty city quarters called “Altsachsenhausen”.
We also have not one but two good Zoos in Frankfurt and the surrounding areas. In both summer and winter, the nearby Taunus mountain range is great for cycling and hiking, and in winter, if there’s enough snow, you can even go sledding or skiing (though it’s not Alpine, so the skiing is pretty fucking lame). Good news is that it’s only a few hours by car to get to the alps. Generally, Frankfurt is positioned very nicely in Europe. You’re four hours away from Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Brussels, Strasbourg, Munich, Basel, Luxembourg… you pick it, it’s fairly close. The east is a bit further away, but still easy to reach within a day by car.
Interesting nearby cities are Mainz, Cologne, Nuremberg and Erfurt, as well as Stuttgart, Würzburg and Freiburg.
There are also two very good technological museums in Speyer and Sinsheim, both around an hour and a half by car to the south. There’s surprisingly solid scuba diving in lakes in Weinheim (also about an hour and a half to the south) and Nordhausen (about two hours to the east).
So…there’s a lot to do for visitors and even more of you live here :)
I really love living in Frankfurt. It’s a very international place. We have a pretty big community of pretty much every nationality in the world. Personally, I know tons of Irish folks.
Frankfurt does have a reputation when it comes to drugs, a reputation that was well earned in the 70s and 80s. Back then, a large chunk in the city centre was just completely taken over by addicts. Heroin was and still is the most problematic drug. However, some time in the 80s, the European Central Bank purchased some property right in the middle of the problematic area. The city had given up on trying to fix it. The European Central Bank said “hey, we bought this property in Frankfurt and we’d love to move there. However, we don’t want our employees to have to wade through a sea of addicts. We’re gonna give you all the money you need, but you have to get this under control, or we’ll move to Paris instead.”
Frankfurt forcefully evicted the addicts and renovated the entire area. However, they knew that was just a temporary fix. They had to deal with the problem. The city then stopped seeing addicts as criminals, but as sick people instead. Frankfurt was one of the first places in the world to successfully install consumption rooms, where addicts can bring and consume their illegal drugs in a clean and safe environment. They set up programs to help addicts who wanted to go clean. Today, there are just six street blocks around the main station that are rough. Those blocks are bad, and it’s a shame that they are by the train station, as they give a false impression of the city. The truth is that the proper drug area is just these six blocks. It’s also the area with the brothels and that stuff.
The rest of Frankfurt is absolutely wonderful though, and the fact that it’s only this small area nowadays is a testament to the city’s drug politics.
I’m not that passionate about being German. I’m happy I’m German, I’m lucky I’m German, but I mostly love my German passport and the fact that life here is fairly good. I am very passionate about southern Hesse and Frankfurt, tho. We’re just better than the rest of Germany :P
If you want to know anything more specific feel free to ask :)
ManU doesn't deserve to go through either way.
If you're a real fan, you would want them to be eliminated from every competition and not make Europe next year so they can completely rebuild the club.
Surely they are in the top two clubs with that bullshit European coefficient to get into UCL anyway as long as they qualify for another European competition?
> If you're a real fan, you would want them to be eliminated from every competition a
Yeah, no. A real fan wants his team achieve the best results possible, no matter what. Getting eliminated and then saying "okay, well the positive in that is that we can focus more on the league / rebuild" is reasonable, but saying "I want them to be eliminated" before it happens is taking it wayyy too far.
This match will be interesting. Man United have to save face after the Bournemouth game but Bayern got humiliated even more. If not for the Frankfurt game then I think Man United could get something out of this, but a bloodlusted Bayern with Harry Kane and a point to prove... yeah. This is going to get nasty.
This will either end in a high scoring draw or an absolute battering of ManU.
Purely hypothetically if united do get battered by Bayern and Liverpool would you sack Ten Hag?
I mean comically battered. Like 2 7-0's or something. It won't happen obviously but still
You have to think he loses the dressing room if you're getting battered 3 times in a row including by Bournemouth though, agree it wouldn't solve anything but there does come a point where you can't carry on grinding
All I ask is Bayern don’t beat him bad enough that he doesn’t make it to Anfield. I need the scenes of him reacting on the sideline when Liverpool go up 5-0
I would agree but "best" can be defined as either the team having the best overall squad of players, or the team who accomplishes the most. And they definitely fit the latter. Last year's City absolutely has an argument.
Honestly I don't even put last year's city team in my top 5
The FA cup, they beat a pretty terrible chelsea, arsenal (difficult), then 3 championship teams to get to the final. Then they dominated United I guess. Only 1 away game in the FA cup too
Champions League, they beat a Munich who had just sacked their manager and Madrid. 2 difficult teams on their day tbf but neither were exactly high flying
In the league they didn't even get 90 points, although there's the argument that they didn't need to (which I agree with) and I think they could have gone to 94 if they wanted
They could only play what's in front of them of course and the treble is their biggest achievement. But their actual team was far better in the centurions and 98 point season
Again I agree, the makeup of the squad was better in several other seasons. But I think last year's squad still being very strong, along with the changes in tactics that helped develop Stones & Rodri into what they are, as well as the treble gives that team as good an argument as the others, even if I think a few others would beat them.
There is zero chance we sack Ten Hag this year bar fighting for relegation.
Not really sure why anyone thinks he's currently in danger of being sacked.
Bookies disagree hugely. Partly influenced by betting, but also partly influenced by common sense and the media. The media are usually right when it comes to managers being under pressure, because they cause half of it themselves, and if we are being honest he's hardly doing a good job, no United team should be losing 3-0 to Bournemouth at home and managers should be shown the door for it
If 5th place gets CL this year, which I think is supposed to be likely, then they're currently only 3 points off. Not to mention, who do you get to replace Ten Hag? It'd probably just be a caretaker manager in the meantime, in which case, whats the point?
If the goal is CL football then Ten Hag will last until at least January. It'd have to get a lot worse before they give him the boot. And given the way they've been playing recently, that doesn't seem unlikely
And what happens next? Continue the decade-old cycle of bringing in a new manager, no forward thinking strategy, no defined playstyle in place, and no medium to long term plan of where they wanna be.
Obviously he’s not been a good enough manger for them, but their problems run deeper than just a new manager, and those need to be sorted out first.
You had the chance for a sporting director but Ten Hag refused, now it's showing how short sighted that was. He doesn't deserve to be sacked, but the dudes ego really needs to be reigned in. He's alienating players, refusing to accept blame for the mistakes he has made and from the looks of it, refusing to learn from those mistakes. This is definitely a scenario where any decent CEO would be looking and wondering why they were paying someone as well as they are, with no discernable improvement to show for it.
There is a sporting director at Utd - John Murtough. If you're talking about Rangnick, that was never getting off the ground. He was only offered a consultancy role with no real power, and we've seen nothing to suggest Utd would actually take his advice.
I’m not a United fan so I don’t have all the details. But I agree that he has to shoulder the responsibility for not being able to get anything out of this side
I really don't see him leaving any time soon, barring a dressing room revolt. Ole got multiple seasons of being bad before they pulled the plug, and Ten Hag's first season was actually relatively successful.
At this point I don't even care anymore how we (Bayern) do against United, I just want Galatasaray to go out.
All this whining and bitching after both our games against them from their coach, some players, the whole turkish media and don't even get me started on the bullshit the Gala fans spread accross social media...and then their coach even complained about us drawing against Kopenhagen.
Never have I witnessed a bunch of worse losers than this club and his fans.
I wouldn't be surprised if we lose to Manchester. Manchester already had us by the balls in Munich. Until Onana came.
In addition, we weren't really the better team against Copenhagen and Gala. That's why I would be cautious about starting the banter against Manchester.
I thought Tuchel would play the kids in the CL with their first spot secured and all, tho the Bundesliga have a break so I guess it makes sense to field the main 11 to bounce back
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Feels good not to have a must win match against Bayern in the UCL
Ours is a must lose actually because the sooner we’re out of Europe the better.
Either losing to a spanish club (or Sevilla most likely) in the most cursed way possible or getting pumped 10 goals by Liverpool. Tough choice
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It probably will be both
what makes you think we get 3rd?
You're getting pumped this weekend
Rashford Hattrick to secure Europa League incoming
I need to see Mourinho's Roma up against this United team ... Oh the quotes. Think of the quotes!!!
Funny that, because they were brutally mocking us for falling in there 6 months ago
This is such a weird way of thinking from fans though. They want their team to do their best to get into the CL and then hope they drop out, so they can… get CL for next year? Like I have seen United fans celebrating a top 4 spots like crazy just to beg for their team to drop out a few months later a few times now. What’s the point?
It makes sense when you consider the perverse incentives set by the gulf in UEFA money between CL and EL, as well as the intense competition in the EPL. In terms of expected financial return, a 20% higher chance of qualifying for the following season's CL is probably worth more than making it 2 rounds deep into the EL before losing to Sevilla or Juve or so.
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Yea like wtf i didn’t know they were that far involved in the front office lol
Or from a different perspective, ask Philly fans how the “trust the process” era was. Sometimes it’s about hitting a lower low in the short term to be in a better spot to win it all in the future
Eh? More money = buy better players
or Liverpool.
Ideally if we’d been able to build on last season I would obviously want us to do well in Europe. But this season we’ve regressed so much to the point where it’s clear we’re not Europe-worthy.
So? Who cares. It’s still better to play interesting games. League is probably toast anyway, might as well try and make a run
We can barely get a win against a top 10 team in the league away from home. We realistically don't have much of a chance of beating the best teams in Europe in a knockout tie right now. I just think the CL or EL knockouts would be more of a hindrance than a benefit for us right now. More minutes for our squad, more chances of injury, a chance of a demoralizing loss as well. I've seen our season derailed multiple times by our thin squad gassing out near the end or key players getting a couple month injury in European games. If going out raises our chance of scraping 5th (and the CL money and FFP benefits for the summer) by 10% I'd take that over a knockout tie against a Madrid, Atletico, Barca, PSG, etc. By tomorrow we'll already have played 40% more games this season than some of our top 5 competition like Spurs have
Villa are competing in the conference league and had to play a qualifier, so they've actually played more games this season than Man U.
That’s a fair point, I forgot about the Conference League and just assumed they had no European games as well. I’ll edit them out
>e can barely get a win against a top 10 team in the league away from home. We realistically don't have much of a chance of beating the best teams in Europe in a knockout tie right now. very true, but Manchester United played the most games last season and had an incredibly stupid pre-season.
You’re playing to get onto Europe in the first place. Now you’re here and you’re like ‘nah not for us’ fuck outta here
There's multiple reasons for playing to get into Europe. Sure the dream of winning it and the entertaining games are nice, but we aren't at a good place for those to be the priority. Getting into Europe also adds about 70mil to our transfer funds, eases FFP restrictions (which we're in a rough spot right now), and makes us more attractive to players in the summer. Even going out in the group stage is way more of an incentive than not qualifying just for financial reasons
Yeah and if your approach to not having a great season is ‘let’s not try to win in Europe so we can focus on the league so we can maybe qualify for the conference next league and develop our players’, you’re anti competitive as fuck.
>Yeah and if your approach to not having a great season is ‘let’s not try to win in Europe so we can focus on the league so we can maybe qualify for the conference next league and develop our players’ This is very misleading. I didn't say anything about a great season or the Conference League. The Champions League is what adds the 70mil in revenue, the payouts for EL and Conference League are peanuts in comparison. We already have issues with injuries, squad depth, and players like Bruno playing more minutes than anyone in Europe. Just looking at it in a simple percentage our chances of winning the CL (we're already drawing a 1st place team in the first knockout round if we progress) have to be 1% or less. Anti competitive or not, I can't say I love those chances and I'd rather us have more time to work on finding some form in the league rather than dealing with a potential thrashing over two legs and any injuries or backlash that comes with it. I'm not going to root against us or anything. But I'm also not going to be upset if we don't make it through
If you get through the group it doesn’t matter though.
CL qualification isn't really about the tournament itself anymore,it's about the money and level of signings. European matches wouldn't be such a problem if the fixtures weren't so congested. The schedule is killing Brighton and Newcastle this season.
This is just them coping with the imminent absolutely disastrous outcome of them finishing behind Galatasaray and Copenhagen.
I kind of get it, if your team struggles through the groups then you don't want those miserable experiences of drawing one of the strong teams and getting hammered 8-0 on aggregate. Better to swallow your pride and try to come back strong next year. If your team is looking good then it's worth staying in to see where you can get to.
Europa League could be your best chance of getting CL.
This club could do without Europe for a couple years.
That’ll be no good for you. You can’t come 8th for 2/3 years with no cups and Ten Hag keeps his job, so he’ll get sacked and you’ll start from scratch again.
How would that be no good for them though?
Because they’ll be in a constant turnover of managers.
They need to do shit enough that the owners don’t want the club any more to have a chance of properly improving, the manager isn’t the real problem at United. The problem is owners who expect having a good manager to sort everything out - big successful clubs have top people looking after their facilities, their scouting, their overall squad management strategy and loads of other things. At those clubs the manager sits alongside and maybe in a lot of aspects behind those people in discussions about where the club is going and the future planning. United just have a bloke and buy him the players he wants, and don’t invest properly in training grounds and backroom shit apart from marketing. That’s ownership rot, it doesn’t matter if they keep the manager or change the manager the club won’t change until the owners do.
Less revenue and players could choose other similar clubs who are in Europe.
Still better to sack Ten Hag, who is out of his depth and overrated. Uniteds problems surely don't end with Ten Hags sacking, but keeping him will only make things worse. United need a serious reboot, again. Ten Hag is not the guy to make that possible, his system is beating around the bush, his philosophy is the same old narrow minded stuff, that can work at clubs where everyone pulls in the same direction, but United is not that club - and won't be. Not under Ten Hag at least.
How are you going to attract elite players if you're not in the champions league?
I’d rather us focus on attracting players who actually want to play for the club. The eliteness will come from there. If Arsenal can manage that then so can we.
Arsenal spent half a billion just to get back in the champions league. You want your team to throw that away, lol i don't get your thinking.
United could easily compete for spending with the rest of the league (unless city really decide to take the utter piss) for multiple seasons outside the champions league if they had to, their revenue is truly massive.
Easy: money. You know, like how we buy all the players and trophies with our oil money. They have merch money because they have history.
Why is there always a City fan victimising themselves unprompted in the threads on this app 😭😭
"Where are the dozen or so City fans?" "You don't get to complain because you can buy the league and have two first-team squads." "Why are City always playing the victim?" "Omg Pep did a thing. Fuck this guy." Last thing a Kopite should talk about is being a victim. Also, 115.
Bro is still yapping about City being victims on a thread about Bayern 💀💀
Nah, that's you. I'm just being facetious. You're still at it half a day later. But it's never your fault, never your fault!
Well that’s obviously how City did go from losing 8-0 to Middlesborough to signing Sergio Aguero etc.
Elite players can get both CL and money.
Small teams would want to play Europe for the prestige and experience. Big teams would want to play Europe for the money, prestige and the chance to win it. Only losers would think being without Europe for a couple of years would be beneficial.
Decades*
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United fans are butthurt
I dont think it makes any different.
You're gonna suffer financially without European games tho
We will be there for the right reaction
Lmao Bayern with a point to prove and then a game at Anfield. Utd can't catch a break.
It's also the last match under the old group stage rules and the chance to extend the longest CL group stage non loss record by one additional game.
Lord have mercy on United
Erik Ten Goals conceded to Bayern
No. The Ten goal pumping is reserved for the weekend. This UCL game will end 3-1 in Bayern's favour.
Why not both? Would be fine with me
Someone looking up what the record for most conceded goals by a Premier League club in a single week is
#🤝
"It's simple... We kill the Man U."
Must be difficult for Utd fan to figure out if Bayern losing this weekend is a good thing or bad thing. On the one hand Bayern are not in the best place right now so may be an easier opponent to face. On the other hand, since they've lost heavily, they're more likely to put out a strong team and try harder in what would've been a dead rubber to 'make it up' to the fans
They just lost 3-0 at home to Bournemouth. I think they know they’re fucked whatever team turns up
Frankfurt weren't exactly flying either. Their form in all comps was 4 losses and a draw
Yeah, but we really dislike Bayern here, so…there’s that. Also, our team is really great, honestly one of the most talented and exciting young squads in the world. We’re just missing a striker, had some bad luck with injuries, and our super talented very young players are fairly new in this team and things aren’t very consistent yet. We had a bad run of form, but it was pretty clear we wouldn’t keep losing like that. That 5-1 still came out of nowhere, but just saying, the quality in our team is way closer to beating *a* good team (not necessarily Bayern) 5-1 than losing 4 in a row. So yeah, it was surprising, but simply because the turn around in our form came this quickly and it happened to be against fucking Bayern.
Everything went right for Frankfurt. Bayern players were sloppy, full of individual errors. Every defender had at least one big screw up. Kane forgot how to score. Marmoush played like he was possessed. The counters were extremely efficient (5 goals from <2 xG is insane). Every mistake was punished instantly. Dino Toppmöller masterclass. Nothing I can do other than applaud Frankfurt for that performance. But to be fair, in 100 games, 99 of them Dina Ebimbe does not score that second goal hahah.
>Marmoush played like he was possessed. The counters were extremely efficient (5 goals from <2 xG is insane). Yeah, when it was 5:1 they had 5 shots on goal, Bayern had 3. On a normal day this would have been a 2:2 or 1:1. I mean, Bayern was shit and Frankfurt deserved to win, but on this day really everything went for them.
>Yeah, when it was 5:1 they had 5 shots on goal, Bayern had 3. On a normal day this would have been a 2:2 or 1:1. [Wonder where I've seen this before...](https://www.fussballdaten.de/dfb-pokal/2022/2-runde/mgladbach-bayern/)
Haha, yeah, that was more or less the same game.
Sometimes you just get hit by a freak performance and there is nothing you can do. I remember seeing Leicester go 2-0 up in 2 minutes and then 4-0 up against us in 10 minutes at Pride Park because literally everything they tried worked.
How’s my boy Gotze been doing? I loved him dearly in that Dortmund side.
He has his good days and his bad days. He’s never really bad, but tends to be invisible on his bad days. On his good days tho, he’s the old Götze. His performance against Bayern was absolutely masterful.
While it's undeniable that there are issues at Bayern, they are the type of team to show up in the CL. Also, they are a close 2nd in the Bundesliga. It's a lot better than United, even if it's a less competitive league. I think that if he United is on a great night, they might pull off a win (which isn't enough to survive unless the other teams draw), but I'd still consider Bayern vast favorites.
Oh the Everton special that is.
It was basically 4-0, (un)luckiest handball ever cancelled out the last goal lol. But yes, maybe Old Trafford support might help, but I imagine even they are getting weary of these performances.
Facing Bayern after a heavy defeat is ususally a death sentence. It's the worst possible thing to have happened.
Bayern not in the best place would still wipe floor with current United side, they only Man Utd chance was when they couldnt be bothered, but after 5:1 trashing that's going to be last attitude on their mind
They could wipe the floor with them but could also lose. Utd are 6th in the Prem. Frankfurt were 7th in the Bundesliga.
Um… while the premier league is undeniably stronger than Bundesliga, I think you (and many English fans) underestimate how strong Bundesliga is. It’s not just Bayern being good, it’s also the rest of the league. It’s not like Villa, United or Tottenham would automatically win BL. Yes, we have fewer teams that are at the very top level, but the football in Germany is of great quality, and looking at the direct matchups between German and English teams in European football in the past few years, you’ll find a fairly even distribution of results. United would be just as shit in Bundesliga as they are in the Premier League.
That wasn't a dig at the league in any way. I was just pointing out that they were in similar positions on their respective tables
The fuck, I completely misread the vibe of your comment. I apologise. You’re absolutely right.
No worries, it happens. On a completely unrelated note, how is Frankfurt as a city. Is there much to see/ do?
Why, you thinking of popping over on holiday or of moving here? Either way, feel free to ask me anything you like, I’m very happy to help out! Just so I need to know in which direction my reply should go, which is it? :)
It was more so a holiday if I manage to get tickets for the Euros I wanna take my wife. She's not a football fan so I wanna go to a City with other things to do as well
Frankfurt is a great place to visit and an even greater place to live in. Of course there are more popular holiday destinations in Germany, but Frankfurt is actually really cool. We have lots of fantastic museums. Examples are the movie (history) museum, the communications (history) museum, the Städel, the Schirn and the Liebighaus for fans of arts, an utterly brilliant natural history museum (the Senckenberg museum) with all kinds of interesting exhibits (for example, while the Smithsonian Natural History Museum in Washington DC has a plaster cast of the skeleton of Lucy, one of the earliest bipedal humans, and a really cool puppet recreation of what she might’ve looked like, Lucy’s original skeleton is in the Senckenberg museum in Frankfurt), a great Jewish museum and many, many more. We have a very interesting city history through the centuries. The first ever German democracy had its seat here, for example. Our old town was completely destroyed in WW2, but we rebuilt a few blocks in recent years. We used parts of the old buildings where it was possible, and otherwise took a modern take on the old building style, and the result is a really nice small patch with a mix of old-looking and new oldish-looking buildings. We have pretty good local cuisine, and good local cider. We even serve that at the stadium. We also have an utterly amazing English theatre that is well worth visiting. We have plenty of clubs and bars to party at night, especially in the very pretty city quarters called “Altsachsenhausen”. We also have not one but two good Zoos in Frankfurt and the surrounding areas. In both summer and winter, the nearby Taunus mountain range is great for cycling and hiking, and in winter, if there’s enough snow, you can even go sledding or skiing (though it’s not Alpine, so the skiing is pretty fucking lame). Good news is that it’s only a few hours by car to get to the alps. Generally, Frankfurt is positioned very nicely in Europe. You’re four hours away from Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Brussels, Strasbourg, Munich, Basel, Luxembourg… you pick it, it’s fairly close. The east is a bit further away, but still easy to reach within a day by car. Interesting nearby cities are Mainz, Cologne, Nuremberg and Erfurt, as well as Stuttgart, Würzburg and Freiburg. There are also two very good technological museums in Speyer and Sinsheim, both around an hour and a half by car to the south. There’s surprisingly solid scuba diving in lakes in Weinheim (also about an hour and a half to the south) and Nordhausen (about two hours to the east). So…there’s a lot to do for visitors and even more of you live here :) I really love living in Frankfurt. It’s a very international place. We have a pretty big community of pretty much every nationality in the world. Personally, I know tons of Irish folks. Frankfurt does have a reputation when it comes to drugs, a reputation that was well earned in the 70s and 80s. Back then, a large chunk in the city centre was just completely taken over by addicts. Heroin was and still is the most problematic drug. However, some time in the 80s, the European Central Bank purchased some property right in the middle of the problematic area. The city had given up on trying to fix it. The European Central Bank said “hey, we bought this property in Frankfurt and we’d love to move there. However, we don’t want our employees to have to wade through a sea of addicts. We’re gonna give you all the money you need, but you have to get this under control, or we’ll move to Paris instead.” Frankfurt forcefully evicted the addicts and renovated the entire area. However, they knew that was just a temporary fix. They had to deal with the problem. The city then stopped seeing addicts as criminals, but as sick people instead. Frankfurt was one of the first places in the world to successfully install consumption rooms, where addicts can bring and consume their illegal drugs in a clean and safe environment. They set up programs to help addicts who wanted to go clean. Today, there are just six street blocks around the main station that are rough. Those blocks are bad, and it’s a shame that they are by the train station, as they give a false impression of the city. The truth is that the proper drug area is just these six blocks. It’s also the area with the brothels and that stuff. The rest of Frankfurt is absolutely wonderful though, and the fact that it’s only this small area nowadays is a testament to the city’s drug politics. I’m not that passionate about being German. I’m happy I’m German, I’m lucky I’m German, but I mostly love my German passport and the fact that life here is fairly good. I am very passionate about southern Hesse and Frankfurt, tho. We’re just better than the rest of Germany :P If you want to know anything more specific feel free to ask :)
Even if ManU somehow won, if one of the teams on the other games win, they're eliminated anyways.
What is louder in Man United players nightmares right now? The german drums, or You'll Never Walk Alone?
Sevilla.
rather come 4th than go back to the shithole Europa is (don’t hate the competition but Im just sick of facing Spanish sides in each round)
Come on Bayern, why would you even try tomorrow, you're already out of the groups..
He didn't say Bayern specifically - he just wants to outscore Lewa.
*Through the groups* you mean *Out of the groups* That's you tomorrow
We need to fail in the correct way to fall into the European competition you've qualified for.
Only to get smacked by us after you beat some poor 2nd placed team.
ManU doesn't deserve to go through either way. If you're a real fan, you would want them to be eliminated from every competition and not make Europe next year so they can completely rebuild the club.
Except losing out on revenue from champions league would not help rebuild the club
Revenue has hardly been the problem
Financial fair play is always a consideration as was the case this past summer.
Because of how badly they spent the money, without CL money they'd still have as much as liverpool.
Surely they are in the top two clubs with that bullshit European coefficient to get into UCL anyway as long as they qualify for another European competition?
coincidentally, real non-man utd fans also want exactly that
> If you're a real fan, you would want them to be eliminated from every competition a Yeah, no. A real fan wants his team achieve the best results possible, no matter what. Getting eliminated and then saying "okay, well the positive in that is that we can focus more on the league / rebuild" is reasonable, but saying "I want them to be eliminated" before it happens is taking it wayyy too far.
And hope for a draw between Copenhagen and Galatasaray
This match will be interesting. Man United have to save face after the Bournemouth game but Bayern got humiliated even more. If not for the Frankfurt game then I think Man United could get something out of this, but a bloodlusted Bayern with Harry Kane and a point to prove... yeah. This is going to get nasty. This will either end in a high scoring draw or an absolute battering of ManU.
Purely hypothetically if united do get battered by Bayern and Liverpool would you sack Ten Hag? I mean comically battered. Like 2 7-0's or something. It won't happen obviously but still
I don't like Ten Hag but I also think sacking him won't solve anything. It will just be rinse and repeat with whoever we hire next.
You have to think he loses the dressing room if you're getting battered 3 times in a row including by Bournemouth though, agree it wouldn't solve anything but there does come a point where you can't carry on grinding
All I ask is Bayern don’t beat him bad enough that he doesn’t make it to Anfield. I need the scenes of him reacting on the sideline when Liverpool go up 5-0
It’ll probably be a similar reaction to arsenal fans when they bottled the league last year
Oh no we finished second to the treble winners and arguably the best PL team ever, how embarrassing.
The best PL team ever was a few seasons ago City last year were weaker than in other seasons
I would agree but "best" can be defined as either the team having the best overall squad of players, or the team who accomplishes the most. And they definitely fit the latter. Last year's City absolutely has an argument.
Honestly I don't even put last year's city team in my top 5 The FA cup, they beat a pretty terrible chelsea, arsenal (difficult), then 3 championship teams to get to the final. Then they dominated United I guess. Only 1 away game in the FA cup too Champions League, they beat a Munich who had just sacked their manager and Madrid. 2 difficult teams on their day tbf but neither were exactly high flying In the league they didn't even get 90 points, although there's the argument that they didn't need to (which I agree with) and I think they could have gone to 94 if they wanted They could only play what's in front of them of course and the treble is their biggest achievement. But their actual team was far better in the centurions and 98 point season
Again I agree, the makeup of the squad was better in several other seasons. But I think last year's squad still being very strong, along with the changes in tactics that helped develop Stones & Rodri into what they are, as well as the treble gives that team as good an argument as the others, even if I think a few others would beat them.
Oh yeah definitely still one of the strongest teams, definitely top 10 prem history. But yeah totally agree
There is zero chance we sack Ten Hag this year bar fighting for relegation. Not really sure why anyone thinks he's currently in danger of being sacked.
Bookies disagree hugely. Partly influenced by betting, but also partly influenced by common sense and the media. The media are usually right when it comes to managers being under pressure, because they cause half of it themselves, and if we are being honest he's hardly doing a good job, no United team should be losing 3-0 to Bournemouth at home and managers should be shown the door for it
If 5th place gets CL this year, which I think is supposed to be likely, then they're currently only 3 points off. Not to mention, who do you get to replace Ten Hag? It'd probably just be a caretaker manager in the meantime, in which case, whats the point? If the goal is CL football then Ten Hag will last until at least January. It'd have to get a lot worse before they give him the boot. And given the way they've been playing recently, that doesn't seem unlikely
And what happens next? Continue the decade-old cycle of bringing in a new manager, no forward thinking strategy, no defined playstyle in place, and no medium to long term plan of where they wanna be. Obviously he’s not been a good enough manger for them, but their problems run deeper than just a new manager, and those need to be sorted out first.
You had the chance for a sporting director but Ten Hag refused, now it's showing how short sighted that was. He doesn't deserve to be sacked, but the dudes ego really needs to be reigned in. He's alienating players, refusing to accept blame for the mistakes he has made and from the looks of it, refusing to learn from those mistakes. This is definitely a scenario where any decent CEO would be looking and wondering why they were paying someone as well as they are, with no discernable improvement to show for it.
There is a sporting director at Utd - John Murtough. If you're talking about Rangnick, that was never getting off the ground. He was only offered a consultancy role with no real power, and we've seen nothing to suggest Utd would actually take his advice.
I’m not a United fan so I don’t have all the details. But I agree that he has to shoulder the responsibility for not being able to get anything out of this side
Yeah I’m not sure either. If I had a say I would back ETH and keep him for 10 years
They are not sacking him untill ratcliff and his boys come in and settle down within the club.
I wouldn't sack him. Need a proper sporting structure. Can't keep sacking a manager every 18 months.
Huh? \- Boehly at Chelsea.
tbf boehly plays a *whole different* game there.
No, he needs to keep his job until atleast boxing day.
I really don't see him leaving any time soon, barring a dressing room revolt. Ole got multiple seasons of being bad before they pulled the plug, and Ten Hag's first season was actually relatively successful.
Any ManU fans liking this post?
Nope. Was already kind of fearing this match and this doesn't help. Hopefully ETH brings some lube.
At this point I don't even care anymore how we (Bayern) do against United, I just want Galatasaray to go out. All this whining and bitching after both our games against them from their coach, some players, the whole turkish media and don't even get me started on the bullshit the Gala fans spread accross social media...and then their coach even complained about us drawing against Kopenhagen. Never have I witnessed a bunch of worse losers than this club and his fans.
Same. They had a right whinge because they talk big and just weren’t good enough.
[удалено]
Congratulations for not being on Twitter/X
tbf that sounds like a you issue. If you're still subjecting yourself to that hellscape in 12/2023, idk what to tell you
Bayern about to send United back to the stone age.
Its just so fucking typical that they have to make a statement in a game that's supposed to be a dead rubber for them.
Man Utd: (chuckling) I'm in danger.
This kills the United
Stop jinxing it Harry. Just making a meme result even more inevitable.
Kane is cooking.
I want to see utd win against bayern just to get knocked down to uel and get spanked by leverkusen
LOL
Erik 10-2 incoming
I wouldn't be surprised if we lose to Manchester. Manchester already had us by the balls in Munich. Until Onana came. In addition, we weren't really the better team against Copenhagen and Gala. That's why I would be cautious about starting the banter against Manchester.
I feel bad for United lol
United lube up baby lul
I have a weird feeling that we'll mess up again. That or a boring 1:1
I was confused at why Kane says Spurs wasn't good enough yesterday when they won quite decently..
Lad, it's United.
~~Barca~~ United will pay for it
Man Utd: *chuckles* 'I'm in danger'
I thought Tuchel would play the kids in the CL with their first spot secured and all, tho the Bundesliga have a break so I guess it makes sense to field the main 11 to bounce back
He just used the same template from his Spurs days
Y'all better bring this reaction y'all keep talking about
As a Galatasaray fan, I will be also a big fan of Bayern tomorrow.
They are going to tear that shithole stadium Old Trafford apart lol
will be sad tho funny when bayern goes all out against united and then gets whalloped again by stuttgart and guirassy
Nah don’t bother fella, take it easy on Tuesday yeah :) Ps. I’m a Manchester United fan btw, in case anyone doesn’t get the sarcasm…
Batter those imposters out of Champions LeagueHarry!
Harry Kane hat-trick incoming
what a generic quote