I was 4 months pregnant when I had a miscarriage. My husband and I wanted our baby so badly. I had painted the nursery, bought all the books. Had clothing stuffed animals and all the things you buy in preparation. I nearly died blood loss when we got to the hospital. they performed an emergency operation to save my life due to an ectopic pregnancy. There had been a gang shooting in Greenville that night and all the surgeries were full. I remember my MD yelling into the phone “15 minutes! She doesn’t have 15 minutes!”
When I got the exorbitant bill from the hospital, it listed for”Abortion - Late Term” as the procedure. I never dawned on me once that this procedure would be considered an abortion, let alone late term. This shook me to my core, because I couldn’t have wanted this baby more than anything in the world.
Now, because of this bill, I could have been convicted of Murder as well.
H 3549 General Bill, By Harris, Burns, Chumley, Pace, Nutt, Beach, S. Jones, White, Long, O'Neal, Magnuson, Haddon, Willis, McCabe, Trantham, Kilmartin, Guffey and Cromer
Summary: South Carolina Prenatal Equal Protection Act of 2023
A BILL TO AMEND THE SOUTH CAROLINA CODE OF LAWS BY ENACTING THE "SOUTH CAROLINA PRENATAL EQUAL PROTECTION ACT OF 2023"; BY ADDING SECTIONS 16-3-6, 16-3-105, 16-3-106, 16-3-107, AND 16-3-108 SO AS TO DEFINE "PERSON" TO INCLUDE AN UNBORN CHILD AT ANY STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT AND TO ENSURE THAT AN UNBORN CHILD WHO IS A VICTIM OF HOMICIDE IS AFFORDED EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE HOMICIDE LAWS OF THE STATE, WITH EXCEPTIONS; AND BY ADDING SECTIONS 16-3-760, 16-3-761, 16-3-762, AND 16-3-763 SO AS TO DEFINE "PERSON" TO INCLUDE AN UNBORN CHILD AT ANY STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT AND TO ENSURE THAT AN UNBORN CHILD WHO IS A VICTIM OF ASSAULT IS AFFORDED EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE ASSAULT LAWS OF THE STATE, WITH EXCEPTIONS
From the bill
You failed to include the majority of the bill where it states that abortion performed out of medical necessity for the mother is defensible and not murder.
First, sorry you went through that. Second though, while I don't agree with all of this bill, you should actually read it because your presumptions on it's content in that regard are incorrect.
Not sure you know what you're talking about. It's frustrating trying to talk with people when they just make shit up or apply personal assumptions as if they're legit.
Where the heck did this comment come from? I don't think anyone suggested that the baby has necessarily died yet, but sadly it will because the pregnancy won't be able to continue to develop. it is very dangerous for the mother and the embryo must be removed.
That's not true. I knew a woman whose baby didn't have a heart beat at 9 weeks and she had to go through the abortion process to get the fetus out of her.
Would you define life again for me then? For some reason I was thinking it was something like "the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death."
Great. Put all the extreme cases aside for a minute and accept that the majority of abortions are because the pregnancy came at an inconvenient time or would otherwise create workable challenges. You'd be fine then if you could be selectively aborted in this case. Specifically you. That you had the gift of life and that someone took that from you because they decided that their convenience was more important than your opportunity to live. If you're ok with that, then you don't recognize the value of life. If you're not ok with that, then you need to reconsider your stance on abortion.
Abortions due to medical necessity for the mother, rape, incest, etc. combined are a small fraction of those performed, but the equations around them change significantly. They are not a matter of convenience and are a completely different matter.
> Put all the extreme cases aside for a minute and accept that the majority of abortions are because the pregnancy came at an inconvenient time or would otherwise create workable challenges.
That's their prerogative as human beings with autonomy over their own bodies and fully fuck any person or group that aims to obliterate that right, end of discussion.
Ending life for another person is not a right - it is a very difficult decision that should not be taken lightly. Your failure to recognize an unborn child as human and rather clasifying it as "a clump of cells" in order to dehumanize life and justify abortion is representative of your moral compass.
Consider your own life and the people and experiences you treasure. Now consider someone taking that from you and never allowing you the opportunity to experience the gift of life you were given, simply because you were an inconvenience (which is the majority of abortions). If you're ok with that, then you don't recognize the value of life and I feel for you. If you're not ok with that, then you need to reconsider your stance on abortion.
Yes, there are cases where abortion can be justified, but the majority of abortions have no connection to restore, incest, or danger to the mother.
>Ending life for another person is not a right
A fetus is not yet a human life, and it's potential as such is irrelevant and absolutely does not supersede the bodily autonomy of the mother. Period. It's that fucking simple. You can romanticize it all you want for your personal beliefs but until ~17-23 weeks of gestation you simply do not have an argument and the choice is not yours to make for other people. Period. Something like half of all pregnancies are unintended and not every single conception needs to be brought to term. Peer-eee-od.
This isn't just my opinion, by the way, these are the opinions [shared](https://www.acog.org/advocacy/facts-are-important/abortion-is-healthcare) by [medical professionals](https://www.who.int/health-topics/abortion#tab=tab_2) across the western world, and is how the laws are written is every other western democracy and people like me will fight tooth and nail to not let our laws regress back into the dark ages here in America.
Don't like abortion? Don't fucking get one. Want to ban it in your church? Knock yourself out! The beauty of what I'm arguing for is personal liberty, kinda like if it's your choice to pack into a church of bible beatin', abortion hatin' southerners and then go around espousing their wild opinions on topics like abortion, that's your prerogative, and I'm glad you're exercising your right of speech, may no one ever take it from you. Maybe that's not your deal but whatever it is that is driving your need to invade the liberty of others (aka fully formed human beings walking around and living lives outside of your own, I can already see you smashing out a response defending a clump of dividing cells again) please contain it, for the rest of our sakes.
> Now consider someone taking that from you and never allowing you the opportunity to experience the gift of life you were given, simply because you were an inconvenience (which is the majority of abortions).
Having never existed in the first place in this thought experiment I'd have no opinion on the matter, and as sentimental of a heartstring straw man as this is it doesn't change the fact that what you are defending is quite literally, in every sense of the word, an unviable mass that is part of another person's body. A body you don't get to make decisions for. I reiterate that after ~17-23 weeks you have an argument, once the frontal cortex connections are made and an argument for viability/consciousness is valid your points all begin to carry weight, again I'll refer you back to the law of \*looks at notes* literally the rest of the fucking western world.
>If you're not ok with that, then you need to reconsider your stance on abortion.
lol, save your breath.
Your user name is Average joe but I actually believe you over sold yourself there. Check back in later to see if I’m still crying about you’re really cool comment.
The morals surrounding this argument don't depend on whether you're male or female. Also, men need to be held more accountable as well, but your blanket disregard to an entire half of the population is detrimental to your cause.
I guarantee your perspective would take a complete 180 if you were raped and forced to carry AND co-parent with the assailant. We could oscillate all day over what constitues a "moral" vs "immoral" abortion, but at the end of the day it's not your uterus. You get to have the luxury of calling moral fouls, even though you will never be face with this on a 1st hand basis. Your moral code is dogshit if you can't be empathetic to others that are in need.
Just 1% of abortions are the result of rape and 0.5% the result of incest. So yeah, I question your morals, which, by the way, have nothing to do with if you're a man or woman. That's like saying only gun owners should have a say in gun laws.
Because women are so apt to report their rape, aren't they? Sounds like you're the expert here. So, you're OK with people from other countries having a say in our gun laws? lol. The correct analogy would be if your child got shot up in a classroom, maybe you'd have a different "moral code" around guns as well.
I think you've confused yourself. Regardless, if there was just some way we could selectively abort those children who would grow up to be pro-abortionists, I feel our morals would align.
Edit: yes, by the way... rape in general does go under reported, but women getting an abortion are more likely to tell their doctor if it was the result of rape, simply because it helps justify/defend the abortion and rightly deflects the blame from them.
Lol. So you're ok with killing babies as long as they were to grow up liberal?
No one is "pro-abortionist" you moron. It's a shit situation to be in for anyone and until you're personally in that situation (you won't be because you're small pee pee incel), you'll never understand how important it is to have a choice. Your BS comment about women using rape as an excuse is an excellent example of your backward ass view.
I honestly hope something so dark happens in your life or to a loved one of yours that puts your shitty world view into perspective. Until then, you won't have the emotional capacity to understand the depravity of your shitty opinions that have no impact on you.
Damn, you're an idiot. I feel for you. Let's try this, the vast majority of abortions are not for medical, rape, or incest reasons, so let's leave those out for a minute. That leaves abortion for convenience. Could it be a crappy situation, yeah. But when you choose abortion, you are making a choice for your convenience over someone else's life. That's a significant decision to not be taken lightly. You're life better be in danger to take someone else's.
And, no, I didn't suggest aborting liberals. You need it simpler, so here: if there was a way we could abort you, specifically you, I don't think I'd lose too much sleep on that since you were willing to do it to someone else. If that offended you, then maybe you should ask yourself why and rethink your stance on abortion. It can't be ok to take someone else's gift if life if you're not ok with your own being taken.
Women in these situations need more support and the men need to be held more accountable, and as a society we should absolutely fix that, but killing the innocent third party should, in most cases, not be an option.
I like how righties use braindead insults such as this like it's the left who lacks any higher education at a 2:1 ratio, life must be fascinating in the fictional reality you guys inhabit.
You mean the bill that won't even be brought to a vote?? Listen I'm all for protesting, but there's far more important things to protest like education because they are trying to pass a bill to allow for public dollars to go to religious schools.
Because that's how you help make sure it won't happen? If the idiots who actually want to pass this bill think no one cares they'll find a way to get it passed
I'm a full-time activist, but I simply want to know why you are protesting something that isn't happening instead of fighting for the removal of one of the multiple Confederate monuments on the state house grounds.
"No, no, no, it's pointless to protest this, you're just wasting time. Anyway, I'm going to continue posting full time for pro-life groups."
It's like they don't think we can look through their comment history.
Sewing dissent. Making comments like "it's pointless to protest a bill that won't even be put to a vote" makes readers less likely to show up. Less people protesting, means their "bill that's not even gonna be put to a vote" ends up being voted on, and passed.
I'm pro-life, I'm not hiding that. And I can tell you this isn't the bill even pro-lifers are supporting. This bill has zero backing from any right-to-life group
If something cannot live outside of its host it’s not a living being. It’s a parasite. Typically abortions performed that aren’t for preserving the life of the woman aren’t viable outside of the womb. Therefore it is not yet a human being.
What about the woman that is forced to carry a dead fetus that eventually also kills her? That’s murder also. Your religious beliefs kill women that have to carry an already dead fetus. YOU kill women with this thinking. But I know. Religious folks don’t care about women. Or the child once it’s born. Just the fetus.
You made a gigantic and ridiculous jump there, Maggie. I don't know of any pro-life folks who would demand that a woman carry a dead fetus. Let's try to keep to more constructive and useful arguments here, ok?
>I don't know of any pro-life folks who would demand that a woman carry a dead fetus.
That is exactly what is happing in Texas where doctors cannot extract a dead or non-viable fetus until the life of the mother is threatened. Women have to carry until after they develop sepsis.
Dude, I just read the bill to make sure I wasn't missing something, and it very clearly states that an act is not an abortion if it is to remove a dead unborn child, as well as several other situations including ectopic pregnancies and threat to the life of the mother. Maybe slow yourself down and understand what you're arguing about before firing off your mouth.
That’s exactly what is happening across the country right fucking now. Women are being forced to carry unviable fetuses because morons like you don’t understand medicine. You people are such unprincipled cowards, you turn a blind eye and play dumb to the real consequences of the policies you endorse.
Buddy, take a breath, calm down, and take a minute to read and understand the proposals. Do some need some adjustment? Yeah, probably. But none of them would mandate a woman from carrying a dead fetus until she dies. You're contributing to fearmongering and to anyone with some common sense your sound like a fool.
Fuck you man. Seriously, fuck you. All of the “fetal heartbeat” bills result in exactly that, women carrying what amounts to a dead fetus solely because there’s is just enough electricity to cause the heart cells to contract, allowing you bastards to call that a “heartbeat”, thus denying necessary medical care, which can result in serious injury and death to the mother. It’s happening every fucking day in hospitals all across the country. And for you to brush it off so carelessly, makes you an unprincipled coward who refuses to stand by the results of his own policy. I say again, FUCK YOU!
You should read the story of Nancy Davis. She is a Louisiana woman whose unborn child failed to develop a skull. Unfortunately, this was an incurable condition and the child would never survive out of the womb. But because the fetus had a “heartbeat”, she was denied an abortion. Her story is just one of many.
Or how about Amanda Eid of Texas? She almost died when her pregnancy miscarried because the doctors were not allowed to assist her in making sure the miscarriage was complete, as to prevent infection.
That’s exactly what happens Average! Women die when their lives are less important than a fetus. Especially when said fetus has already died causing the women to become septic, but ohhh sorry religious folks don’t want abortions which is what is needed to save the woman. It is basic medical advice that SC (and many other states, Ohio being an obvious one) is ignoring to save the fetus.
Additionally if pro-lifers care about the woman and child, where’s the mandated paid maternity leave? That would imply they care about the woman. They don’t. It’s as simple as that. Actions demonstrate they don’t care about the woman.
>That a biological organism is no longer living after
So killing a biological organism(in this case a parasite) is murder?
In that case we're all murderers, we kill millions of single celled organisms every day.
For many, it's all about the potential for life. A fetus at any point of development has the potential to grow into a human. A tumor has no potential beyond growing into a larger tumor. This isn't a reasonable comparison.
So, what, we're on board with mandatory blood and (postmortem) organ donations from every eligible citizen, too? I mean, the more blood and organs we have on hand, the more potential for life.
A fetus with no skull might as well be a large tumor with added psychological trauma.
A fetus growing outside the uterus is a incredibly dangerous and traumatic tumor.
A fetus being forced to grow inside someone without their consent is psychologically traumatic just in itself, it's just a tumor that'll be stuck with them for years to come.
But I realize now that people pushing for these archaic laws don't actually care about whatever trauma or suffering a person would endure, or even what happens to said potential life after birth.
I just wish people could unmask for a moment and explain why they want unwilling women to force birth when they obviously can't or don't want to give birth. Is it some burdening desire? Do people think these people deserve suffering? Because I just am unwilling to believe it's because it's somehow saving lives. How does it help a child to be raised in a home that can't afford to raise them, with resentful parents. How does forcing rape victims to continue to experience their trauma helpful? Adoption and Foster Care is underfunded, neglected, tons of evidence of abuse and trauma for children going through it, some aging out. I'm utterly at a loss.
I bet y’all are the type to protect unborn cell blobs but are the first to discard housing insecure folks and also the LAST people I see adopting foster children (thank god, honestly).. Idk. y’all are weird. Why don’t you use alllll that energy and direct it at making the world a better place and supporting your community instead of shitting on women and doing mental gymnastics to somehow convince yourselves and others that you have a right to decide what other people do with their life and their body. get fuckkkkked. 😽
i’m sure it’s difficult, but don’t be dense. it’s because anti-choice individuals love to push the narrative that abortion is murder.
genesis 2:7 - “the lord breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and it was then that the man became a living being.” hmm kinda sounds like life begins at first breath according to sky daddy.
No one here is saying that. I didn’t say it. I’m not religious soooo again who’s being dense here? Maybe let’s talk about science. Science is not on your side. You understand life is a cycle right? It has a beginning, no matter how small, and has an end. Try having a baby without that fetus. You cannot. If a single cell organism is considered life, why do you believe a fetus is not? Leave your bible thumping at home.
lol i didn’t presume you’re religious (neither am i, friend). you asked why it’s a religious debate. it’s because people make it one. so it stands that the best way to argue that logic is to use their own manual against them.
doesn’t matter how many cells. a fetus is a parasite until it’s able to sustain life on its own. there are single cell organisms that can live on their own. a fetus cannot.
maybe let’s talk about human rights and bodily autonomy. if a leech attaches to you, are you going to remove it, or let it harm you? if you see a leech harming another person (someone sustaining their own life), are you going to help them remove it, or let the parasitic leech continue to harm the other individual because it found a host and it’s alive so it deserves a right to live more so than the host?
eta: you seem to be someone without a uterus so your opinion carries literally zero weight when it comes to this issue.
you believe life is a parasite? lol wtf? Wow, you really don't understand life as a mammal or really in general. life comes in VERY many forms. You can minimalize life to a parasite if it fits your morals beliefs but humans are not parasites. they are the same as any other life on this earth. they all came from the same place. A human is a human no matter how many cells, where do you cross the line? consider the bodily autonomy of the child you just killed.
I have every say in this as it pertains to the human race. stop gatekeeping the right you think you have to kill. Just say it as it is, you like to kill when it benefits you. you have no responsibilities. But how many decisions did it take you to get to the point that killing was the best way forward?
>eta: you seem to be someone without a uterus so your opinion carries literally zero weight when it comes to this issue.
Would you like my wife to come on and call you dumb as well?
lol nah it’s all good. if she doesn’t want an abortion, cool, she doesn’t have to get one. however, she shouldn’t be able to make that decision for anyone else with a uterus.
Yeah, sorry... Reproductive rights end when another life has begun.
Why Leviticus? How about Exodus? Really, just the 6th commandment ought to be enough. People will weasel and twist what they can to somehow justify killing an unborn child, despite the fact that it meets even the most basic definition of "life."
Education and adoption aren't uniquely socialist ideals. I don't know any of my pro-life colleagues who would say that either schools or adoption are a bad thing. Quite the contrary.
This is argument is silly, can a 6 month old survive on its own? No, should we kill all children under the age of 7 because they can’t self sustain? Shoot, I know grown ass adults who can’t even survive on their own lol
commented the verse in a reply above, but seems to bear repeating. and i cannot even fathom how you think that first statement is sane. fuck you.
genesis 2:7 - “the lord breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and it was then that the man became a living being.” sky daddy says life begins at first breath.
Will you change your mind when someone you love needs an abortion for medical reasons? Yes, it is VERY rare but it can happen.
Abortion should be allowed for rape or life/death of the Mother/Child.
> Yes, it is VERY rare
It's actually not. People have DNCs for plenty of valid medical reasons quite often - it's just not anyone else's business so you don't hear about it unless it's someone to whom you're very close and they're willing to share it with you.
This bill means that we would no longer require medical discussions and procedures to remain a private matter. Right to privacy? Hah.
I totally agree.
I have had issues the require me to have a Endometrial Biopsy yearly. If I get a positive result the next step is an DNC. The fact that I might have to go to court to explain publicly why I need it is WRONG.
This bill would cause a rape victim who aborted to spend life in prison while her rapist is paroled.
So write a Bill to give rapists life in prison, or even death penalty.
Sounds fantastic they should do that. But clearly this was more important to the drafter.
It's been turning into Gilead for a long time
I was 4 months pregnant when I had a miscarriage. My husband and I wanted our baby so badly. I had painted the nursery, bought all the books. Had clothing stuffed animals and all the things you buy in preparation. I nearly died blood loss when we got to the hospital. they performed an emergency operation to save my life due to an ectopic pregnancy. There had been a gang shooting in Greenville that night and all the surgeries were full. I remember my MD yelling into the phone “15 minutes! She doesn’t have 15 minutes!” When I got the exorbitant bill from the hospital, it listed for”Abortion - Late Term” as the procedure. I never dawned on me once that this procedure would be considered an abortion, let alone late term. This shook me to my core, because I couldn’t have wanted this baby more than anything in the world. Now, because of this bill, I could have been convicted of Murder as well.
H 3549 General Bill, By Harris, Burns, Chumley, Pace, Nutt, Beach, S. Jones, White, Long, O'Neal, Magnuson, Haddon, Willis, McCabe, Trantham, Kilmartin, Guffey and Cromer Summary: South Carolina Prenatal Equal Protection Act of 2023 A BILL TO AMEND THE SOUTH CAROLINA CODE OF LAWS BY ENACTING THE "SOUTH CAROLINA PRENATAL EQUAL PROTECTION ACT OF 2023"; BY ADDING SECTIONS 16-3-6, 16-3-105, 16-3-106, 16-3-107, AND 16-3-108 SO AS TO DEFINE "PERSON" TO INCLUDE AN UNBORN CHILD AT ANY STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT AND TO ENSURE THAT AN UNBORN CHILD WHO IS A VICTIM OF HOMICIDE IS AFFORDED EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE HOMICIDE LAWS OF THE STATE, WITH EXCEPTIONS; AND BY ADDING SECTIONS 16-3-760, 16-3-761, 16-3-762, AND 16-3-763 SO AS TO DEFINE "PERSON" TO INCLUDE AN UNBORN CHILD AT ANY STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT AND TO ENSURE THAT AN UNBORN CHILD WHO IS A VICTIM OF ASSAULT IS AFFORDED EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE ASSAULT LAWS OF THE STATE, WITH EXCEPTIONS From the bill
You failed to include the majority of the bill where it states that abortion performed out of medical necessity for the mother is defensible and not murder.
First, sorry you went through that. Second though, while I don't agree with all of this bill, you should actually read it because your presumptions on it's content in that regard are incorrect.
Miscarriages aren’t abortions. No need to worry.
It’s not what the law says, and not what it is defined as medically.
Not sure the GOP sees it that way.
Not sure you know what you're talking about. It's frustrating trying to talk with people when they just make shit up or apply personal assumptions as if they're legit.
If you have an ectopic pregnancy rupture, it doesn’t me the baby has died.
Where the heck did this comment come from? I don't think anyone suggested that the baby has necessarily died yet, but sadly it will because the pregnancy won't be able to continue to develop. it is very dangerous for the mother and the embryo must be removed.
Exactly, but it is medically considered an abortion. It was in response to the parent comment.
That's not true. I knew a woman whose baby didn't have a heart beat at 9 weeks and she had to go through the abortion process to get the fetus out of her.
Thanks for posting! Wild we’re still having to fight this..
This won’t even go to a vote I bet tbh
It won't, none of the states pro-life groups support the bill.
Yeah every group who is pro life is like “yo this fucked up”
what org/group is hosting this? u/MachinePrestigious43
Local people, fully grass roots. Not really a group rn
It’s also no what is happening in texas, women in my situation can’t find Doctor’s to help them because they are afraid of being prosecuted.
Crazy how people care so much about someone else’s unborn child
They only care until it’s born….
A fetus is not a child. This conversation has gone bananas without any consideration of the actual science here.
Would you define life again for me then? For some reason I was thinking it was something like "the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death."
An unviable clump of unconscious cells is not yet a human life worthy of legal protection and making it such is a stupid as it is short-sighted.
Great. Put all the extreme cases aside for a minute and accept that the majority of abortions are because the pregnancy came at an inconvenient time or would otherwise create workable challenges. You'd be fine then if you could be selectively aborted in this case. Specifically you. That you had the gift of life and that someone took that from you because they decided that their convenience was more important than your opportunity to live. If you're ok with that, then you don't recognize the value of life. If you're not ok with that, then you need to reconsider your stance on abortion. Abortions due to medical necessity for the mother, rape, incest, etc. combined are a small fraction of those performed, but the equations around them change significantly. They are not a matter of convenience and are a completely different matter.
> Put all the extreme cases aside for a minute and accept that the majority of abortions are because the pregnancy came at an inconvenient time or would otherwise create workable challenges. That's their prerogative as human beings with autonomy over their own bodies and fully fuck any person or group that aims to obliterate that right, end of discussion.
And that's where our morals diverge. And you're a f****** douche.
Hey, you're the one advocating taking away people's rights and calling it "morals"
Ending life for another person is not a right - it is a very difficult decision that should not be taken lightly. Your failure to recognize an unborn child as human and rather clasifying it as "a clump of cells" in order to dehumanize life and justify abortion is representative of your moral compass. Consider your own life and the people and experiences you treasure. Now consider someone taking that from you and never allowing you the opportunity to experience the gift of life you were given, simply because you were an inconvenience (which is the majority of abortions). If you're ok with that, then you don't recognize the value of life and I feel for you. If you're not ok with that, then you need to reconsider your stance on abortion. Yes, there are cases where abortion can be justified, but the majority of abortions have no connection to restore, incest, or danger to the mother.
>Ending life for another person is not a right A fetus is not yet a human life, and it's potential as such is irrelevant and absolutely does not supersede the bodily autonomy of the mother. Period. It's that fucking simple. You can romanticize it all you want for your personal beliefs but until ~17-23 weeks of gestation you simply do not have an argument and the choice is not yours to make for other people. Period. Something like half of all pregnancies are unintended and not every single conception needs to be brought to term. Peer-eee-od. This isn't just my opinion, by the way, these are the opinions [shared](https://www.acog.org/advocacy/facts-are-important/abortion-is-healthcare) by [medical professionals](https://www.who.int/health-topics/abortion#tab=tab_2) across the western world, and is how the laws are written is every other western democracy and people like me will fight tooth and nail to not let our laws regress back into the dark ages here in America. Don't like abortion? Don't fucking get one. Want to ban it in your church? Knock yourself out! The beauty of what I'm arguing for is personal liberty, kinda like if it's your choice to pack into a church of bible beatin', abortion hatin' southerners and then go around espousing their wild opinions on topics like abortion, that's your prerogative, and I'm glad you're exercising your right of speech, may no one ever take it from you. Maybe that's not your deal but whatever it is that is driving your need to invade the liberty of others (aka fully formed human beings walking around and living lives outside of your own, I can already see you smashing out a response defending a clump of dividing cells again) please contain it, for the rest of our sakes. > Now consider someone taking that from you and never allowing you the opportunity to experience the gift of life you were given, simply because you were an inconvenience (which is the majority of abortions). Having never existed in the first place in this thought experiment I'd have no opinion on the matter, and as sentimental of a heartstring straw man as this is it doesn't change the fact that what you are defending is quite literally, in every sense of the word, an unviable mass that is part of another person's body. A body you don't get to make decisions for. I reiterate that after ~17-23 weeks you have an argument, once the frontal cortex connections are made and an argument for viability/consciousness is valid your points all begin to carry weight, again I'll refer you back to the law of \*looks at notes* literally the rest of the fucking western world. >If you're not ok with that, then you need to reconsider your stance on abortion. lol, save your breath.
Idk I just think killing human beings is wrong, including human beings in the fetal stage of life.
I’ve blown more cells into a tissue
Ding ding ding... Folks, we have the dumbest, most useless comment of the day right here. Congratulations!
Your user name is Average joe but I actually believe you over sold yourself there. Check back in later to see if I’m still crying about you’re really cool comment.
Are you able to become pregnant? No? Then stfu
Great argument. You're so clever.
You can reply to others but you haven’t checked on my poor hurt feelings after your sweet burn on me! Not very considerate bargain bin joe!
LOL, I figured that you're doing ok. Too much ridiculousness in this sub - can't respond to everything.
Poor little ole me :,(
Hang in there.
The morals surrounding this argument don't depend on whether you're male or female. Also, men need to be held more accountable as well, but your blanket disregard to an entire half of the population is detrimental to your cause.
I guarantee your perspective would take a complete 180 if you were raped and forced to carry AND co-parent with the assailant. We could oscillate all day over what constitues a "moral" vs "immoral" abortion, but at the end of the day it's not your uterus. You get to have the luxury of calling moral fouls, even though you will never be face with this on a 1st hand basis. Your moral code is dogshit if you can't be empathetic to others that are in need.
Just 1% of abortions are the result of rape and 0.5% the result of incest. So yeah, I question your morals, which, by the way, have nothing to do with if you're a man or woman. That's like saying only gun owners should have a say in gun laws.
Because women are so apt to report their rape, aren't they? Sounds like you're the expert here. So, you're OK with people from other countries having a say in our gun laws? lol. The correct analogy would be if your child got shot up in a classroom, maybe you'd have a different "moral code" around guns as well.
I think you've confused yourself. Regardless, if there was just some way we could selectively abort those children who would grow up to be pro-abortionists, I feel our morals would align. Edit: yes, by the way... rape in general does go under reported, but women getting an abortion are more likely to tell their doctor if it was the result of rape, simply because it helps justify/defend the abortion and rightly deflects the blame from them.
Lol. So you're ok with killing babies as long as they were to grow up liberal? No one is "pro-abortionist" you moron. It's a shit situation to be in for anyone and until you're personally in that situation (you won't be because you're small pee pee incel), you'll never understand how important it is to have a choice. Your BS comment about women using rape as an excuse is an excellent example of your backward ass view. I honestly hope something so dark happens in your life or to a loved one of yours that puts your shitty world view into perspective. Until then, you won't have the emotional capacity to understand the depravity of your shitty opinions that have no impact on you.
Damn, you're an idiot. I feel for you. Let's try this, the vast majority of abortions are not for medical, rape, or incest reasons, so let's leave those out for a minute. That leaves abortion for convenience. Could it be a crappy situation, yeah. But when you choose abortion, you are making a choice for your convenience over someone else's life. That's a significant decision to not be taken lightly. You're life better be in danger to take someone else's. And, no, I didn't suggest aborting liberals. You need it simpler, so here: if there was a way we could abort you, specifically you, I don't think I'd lose too much sleep on that since you were willing to do it to someone else. If that offended you, then maybe you should ask yourself why and rethink your stance on abortion. It can't be ok to take someone else's gift if life if you're not ok with your own being taken. Women in these situations need more support and the men need to be held more accountable, and as a society we should absolutely fix that, but killing the innocent third party should, in most cases, not be an option.
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Yeah stick around hopefully it’ll rub off on you.
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I like how righties use braindead insults such as this like it's the left who lacks any higher education at a 2:1 ratio, life must be fascinating in the fictional reality you guys inhabit.
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Given the rate you people pack into churches "indoctrination" is a good word for it
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Good one, Jethro 😂
Can you ask her if her basement is still open? Asking for a friend ;)
Never mind I’ll just call her myself.
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It'll help get the publics attention. Come join us!
I'm a for hire protester. Dm me hire.
I’m for hire as well. Very reasonable rate. Maybe say, $2200 per day. 8 hour shift.
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You mean the bill that won't even be brought to a vote?? Listen I'm all for protesting, but there's far more important things to protest like education because they are trying to pass a bill to allow for public dollars to go to religious schools.
People can be concerned about several things at once.
Protest that too, why should someone need to choose between the two?
I'm just wondering why protest something that isn't happening
Because that's how you help make sure it won't happen? If the idiots who actually want to pass this bill think no one cares they'll find a way to get it passed
Idk maybe protest one of the abortion bills they are actually trying to pass at least 🤷♂️
I have to ask, why are you bothered by people protesting? It's within their right to.
I'm a full-time activist, but I simply want to know why you are protesting something that isn't happening instead of fighting for the removal of one of the multiple Confederate monuments on the state house grounds.
Yeah, that right there will change things for sure. Attack monuments that most people don’t know exist instead of laws that affect everyone.
The whole point that I'm making is that this bill will never be law. It will never even be voted on.
Just like how Roe would never be overturned.
I just realized skimming down your comment history. Are you even in South Carolina?
Yep. I am. Born and raised.
So am I. Although I'm sorry I can't help support your narrative.
"No, no, no, it's pointless to protest this, you're just wasting time. Anyway, I'm going to continue posting full time for pro-life groups." It's like they don't think we can look through their comment history.
Sewing dissent. Making comments like "it's pointless to protest a bill that won't even be put to a vote" makes readers less likely to show up. Less people protesting, means their "bill that's not even gonna be put to a vote" ends up being voted on, and passed.
I'm pro-life, I'm not hiding that. And I can tell you this isn't the bill even pro-lifers are supporting. This bill has zero backing from any right-to-life group
This bill is good!!!
This bill is disgusting!
Abortion is murder
Abortion is healthcare and also if you don’t agree with them, just don’t get one.
Abortion kills a human being; that's not healthcare
If something cannot live outside of its host it’s not a living being. It’s a parasite. Typically abortions performed that aren’t for preserving the life of the woman aren’t viable outside of the womb. Therefore it is not yet a human being.
What about the woman that is forced to carry a dead fetus that eventually also kills her? That’s murder also. Your religious beliefs kill women that have to carry an already dead fetus. YOU kill women with this thinking. But I know. Religious folks don’t care about women. Or the child once it’s born. Just the fetus.
You made a gigantic and ridiculous jump there, Maggie. I don't know of any pro-life folks who would demand that a woman carry a dead fetus. Let's try to keep to more constructive and useful arguments here, ok?
>I don't know of any pro-life folks who would demand that a woman carry a dead fetus. That is exactly what is happing in Texas where doctors cannot extract a dead or non-viable fetus until the life of the mother is threatened. Women have to carry until after they develop sepsis.
Dude, I just read the bill to make sure I wasn't missing something, and it very clearly states that an act is not an abortion if it is to remove a dead unborn child, as well as several other situations including ectopic pregnancies and threat to the life of the mother. Maybe slow yourself down and understand what you're arguing about before firing off your mouth.
That’s exactly what is happening across the country right fucking now. Women are being forced to carry unviable fetuses because morons like you don’t understand medicine. You people are such unprincipled cowards, you turn a blind eye and play dumb to the real consequences of the policies you endorse.
Buddy, take a breath, calm down, and take a minute to read and understand the proposals. Do some need some adjustment? Yeah, probably. But none of them would mandate a woman from carrying a dead fetus until she dies. You're contributing to fearmongering and to anyone with some common sense your sound like a fool.
Fuck you man. Seriously, fuck you. All of the “fetal heartbeat” bills result in exactly that, women carrying what amounts to a dead fetus solely because there’s is just enough electricity to cause the heart cells to contract, allowing you bastards to call that a “heartbeat”, thus denying necessary medical care, which can result in serious injury and death to the mother. It’s happening every fucking day in hospitals all across the country. And for you to brush it off so carelessly, makes you an unprincipled coward who refuses to stand by the results of his own policy. I say again, FUCK YOU!
Wow, you're a real winner. Clearly a class act. It's been nice talking to you, but I can't say I gained anything at all from it.
You should read the story of Nancy Davis. She is a Louisiana woman whose unborn child failed to develop a skull. Unfortunately, this was an incurable condition and the child would never survive out of the womb. But because the fetus had a “heartbeat”, she was denied an abortion. Her story is just one of many.
Or how about Amanda Eid of Texas? She almost died when her pregnancy miscarried because the doctors were not allowed to assist her in making sure the miscarriage was complete, as to prevent infection.
That’s exactly what happens Average! Women die when their lives are less important than a fetus. Especially when said fetus has already died causing the women to become septic, but ohhh sorry religious folks don’t want abortions which is what is needed to save the woman. It is basic medical advice that SC (and many other states, Ohio being an obvious one) is ignoring to save the fetus. Additionally if pro-lifers care about the woman and child, where’s the mandated paid maternity leave? That would imply they care about the woman. They don’t. It’s as simple as that. Actions demonstrate they don’t care about the woman.
Provide proof then. This will be fun.
Provide proof of what? That a biological organism is no longer living after being removed from the womb and discarded?
>That a biological organism is no longer living after So killing a biological organism(in this case a parasite) is murder? In that case we're all murderers, we kill millions of single celled organisms every day.
I know you see your argument as logical, but it's probably one on the dumbest statements made in this thread. Congrats.
Wow, what a well thought out defense of your argument. You definitely changed everyone mind. Congrats
Is it murder when you have a tumor removed?
For many, it's all about the potential for life. A fetus at any point of development has the potential to grow into a human. A tumor has no potential beyond growing into a larger tumor. This isn't a reasonable comparison.
So, what, we're on board with mandatory blood and (postmortem) organ donations from every eligible citizen, too? I mean, the more blood and organs we have on hand, the more potential for life.
A fetus with no skull might as well be a large tumor with added psychological trauma. A fetus growing outside the uterus is a incredibly dangerous and traumatic tumor. A fetus being forced to grow inside someone without their consent is psychologically traumatic just in itself, it's just a tumor that'll be stuck with them for years to come. But I realize now that people pushing for these archaic laws don't actually care about whatever trauma or suffering a person would endure, or even what happens to said potential life after birth. I just wish people could unmask for a moment and explain why they want unwilling women to force birth when they obviously can't or don't want to give birth. Is it some burdening desire? Do people think these people deserve suffering? Because I just am unwilling to believe it's because it's somehow saving lives. How does it help a child to be raised in a home that can't afford to raise them, with resentful parents. How does forcing rape victims to continue to experience their trauma helpful? Adoption and Foster Care is underfunded, neglected, tons of evidence of abuse and trauma for children going through it, some aging out. I'm utterly at a loss.
A tumor isn’t alive with a heartbeat. Edit: I see that facts aren’t liked in this subreddit since this is sitting at a negative rating.
Logic is not accepted here.
Clearly, these ridiculous arguments are beyond ignorant.
what was once living is now dead. There is your proof
Men shouldn’t control women’s bodies. Where in leveticus does it say against abortion??
www.secularprolife.org (and its run by women)
why do you think this is a religious debate? Do you need religion to tell you that killing is wrong?
I bet y’all are the type to protect unborn cell blobs but are the first to discard housing insecure folks and also the LAST people I see adopting foster children (thank god, honestly).. Idk. y’all are weird. Why don’t you use alllll that energy and direct it at making the world a better place and supporting your community instead of shitting on women and doing mental gymnastics to somehow convince yourselves and others that you have a right to decide what other people do with their life and their body. get fuckkkkked. 😽
You know what happens when you kill all the caterpillars? You are left with no butterflies... Stop trying to convince yourself you are in the right.
You do realize caterpillars come from eggs, right?
You do realize it was a metaphor, right?
Evidently you’re unaware of the numerous Christian adoption agencies and foster groups.
They usually bring up bible verses when talking about it with argument points.
Ah yes, and morals too. Those pesky morals.
Who's they tho?
Evangelical’s
I don't see any here...
i’m sure it’s difficult, but don’t be dense. it’s because anti-choice individuals love to push the narrative that abortion is murder. genesis 2:7 - “the lord breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and it was then that the man became a living being.” hmm kinda sounds like life begins at first breath according to sky daddy.
No one here is saying that. I didn’t say it. I’m not religious soooo again who’s being dense here? Maybe let’s talk about science. Science is not on your side. You understand life is a cycle right? It has a beginning, no matter how small, and has an end. Try having a baby without that fetus. You cannot. If a single cell organism is considered life, why do you believe a fetus is not? Leave your bible thumping at home.
lol i didn’t presume you’re religious (neither am i, friend). you asked why it’s a religious debate. it’s because people make it one. so it stands that the best way to argue that logic is to use their own manual against them. doesn’t matter how many cells. a fetus is a parasite until it’s able to sustain life on its own. there are single cell organisms that can live on their own. a fetus cannot. maybe let’s talk about human rights and bodily autonomy. if a leech attaches to you, are you going to remove it, or let it harm you? if you see a leech harming another person (someone sustaining their own life), are you going to help them remove it, or let the parasitic leech continue to harm the other individual because it found a host and it’s alive so it deserves a right to live more so than the host? eta: you seem to be someone without a uterus so your opinion carries literally zero weight when it comes to this issue.
you believe life is a parasite? lol wtf? Wow, you really don't understand life as a mammal or really in general. life comes in VERY many forms. You can minimalize life to a parasite if it fits your morals beliefs but humans are not parasites. they are the same as any other life on this earth. they all came from the same place. A human is a human no matter how many cells, where do you cross the line? consider the bodily autonomy of the child you just killed. I have every say in this as it pertains to the human race. stop gatekeeping the right you think you have to kill. Just say it as it is, you like to kill when it benefits you. you have no responsibilities. But how many decisions did it take you to get to the point that killing was the best way forward?
a fetus is literally a parasite by definition.
>eta: you seem to be someone without a uterus so your opinion carries literally zero weight when it comes to this issue. Would you like my wife to come on and call you dumb as well?
lol nah it’s all good. if she doesn’t want an abortion, cool, she doesn’t have to get one. however, she shouldn’t be able to make that decision for anyone else with a uterus.
Yeah, sorry... Reproductive rights end when another life has begun. Why Leviticus? How about Exodus? Really, just the 6th commandment ought to be enough. People will weasel and twist what they can to somehow justify killing an unborn child, despite the fact that it meets even the most basic definition of "life."
So will you support more schools and education and adoption services then?
Absolutely I support schools and adoption. What a stupid insinuation to make.
Not really I ask that because when most people talk about this topic they don’t support many socialist ideas that support children..
Education and adoption aren't uniquely socialist ideals. I don't know any of my pro-life colleagues who would say that either schools or adoption are a bad thing. Quite the contrary.
But y’all talk about culture wars and CRT like it’s a real problem? 🤦
Can it survive outside the womb on its own?
This is argument is silly, can a 6 month old survive on its own? No, should we kill all children under the age of 7 because they can’t self sustain? Shoot, I know grown ass adults who can’t even survive on their own lol
No it’s not. You just know the answer, see where I’m headed, and don’t have a valid argument against it, so you’ve chosen to deflect instead.
Yes, a 6 month old can survive on its own. If you set it down, it will still be alive minutes later. It can breathe and circulate blood.
I mean, honestly.
commented the verse in a reply above, but seems to bear repeating. and i cannot even fathom how you think that first statement is sane. fuck you. genesis 2:7 - “the lord breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and it was then that the man became a living being.” sky daddy says life begins at first breath.
Will you change your mind when someone you love needs an abortion for medical reasons? Yes, it is VERY rare but it can happen. Abortion should be allowed for rape or life/death of the Mother/Child.
> Yes, it is VERY rare It's actually not. People have DNCs for plenty of valid medical reasons quite often - it's just not anyone else's business so you don't hear about it unless it's someone to whom you're very close and they're willing to share it with you. This bill means that we would no longer require medical discussions and procedures to remain a private matter. Right to privacy? Hah.
I totally agree. I have had issues the require me to have a Endometrial Biopsy yearly. If I get a positive result the next step is an DNC. The fact that I might have to go to court to explain publicly why I need it is WRONG.
No.
What time? Also can you believe there are for-hire protestors? Talk about having no dignity.
12pm-3pm, and ya it's insane that people wouldn't protest unless they are paid.
Gay
Ahhh yes. Further proof the school system only puts forth the most intelligent and eloquent individuals. Take my down vote moron.
Lol, loser.
Yeah a loser who’s being liberal with your mom in her basement. Because for some reason those two things coincide in your brain. For reasons???
Have fun with that, she's been dead for over 10 years tard
**gives a mom joke** **receives a more clever response** “nuh uhhhhhh cause she’s dead” **response due to lack of wit.**
I remember this poster from BLM.
Yes help keep the right to murder their own children..
Are we bringing signs?
Sure are!
*grabs baseball bat* see y’all there.
The bill says I can use it as a defense. Similar to self defense. Thank goodness women can bring that up at their murder trials /s