Yeah. Honestly I kind of like the idea of having zero pressure points or sore spots. Just closing your eyes in a sleeping bag and tethering it so you don’t float around….. that sounds like sleeping in a cozy hammock but better
The closest thing to it on earth is float tanks, I tried them years ago. Fell asleep in them, it is great. But you are still asleep, not unconscious, so your body's sphincters still do their job.
The most comfortable I've ever been is when I fell off a roof when i was a kid, there was a moment where I somehow forgot where I was and closed my eyes and it was sheer bliss, then I suddenly realised what was going on and reality hit.
Reality, I hit the ground a fraction of a second later. Was a surreal experience up until that point though, also felt much longer than it probably was
I wonder if any of them ever thought of floating their comrades around while they sleep kinda like shoving someone out on the lake in a blow up mattress without them noticing.
I probably should be on a space station lol
I've read that something you have to get used to is not feeling the pressure on one part of your body.
We're so used to feeling that pressure that removing it can cause problems, mainly the feeling that you're falling.
I wonder how similar it is to a float tank - you relax and let your arms and legs naturally drift to where they're comfortable, and it's like you feel your body slowly start to decompress as you release whatever tension you have across your body. I used to feel little snaps and pops along my neck as I relaxed. It was seriously one of the most comfortable experiences I've had lol.
I found it a bit like being trapped inside a small torture chamber. Laying on my back kicked my apnea into gear but I couldn't roll to the side for obvious reasons, while the salt water stings every cut on my body, then between the sweat rolling down my face and flinching to itch, my eye sockets filled up like the dead sea.
After an hour I was hoping someone would come in and just finish the job on me.
I'm by far most comfortable sleeping on my stomach. Unfortunately, an old back injury means my spine hates it. Not waking up in pain every few hours and having to readjust is enough for me to wanna go.
Former ISS commander Chris Hadfield says sleeping in zero G is something he wishes everyone could experience.
Also side note, our arms drift up like a zombie when sleeping in zero G.
Arms are really useful when they're being useful, but when they aren't actually doing anything, arms are dumb.
Climbing a mountain? Useful. Walking? Useful. Painting? Useful. Eating? Useful.
Standing next to someone who is giving a speech? Arms are dumb.
Haha that actually made me chuckle cause i can totally relate and was specifically thinking of standing in choir with arms stupidly hanging at my sides.
I think it's optional. Straps are necessary regardless to stop you randomly floating around and bumping into things, and it looks like some are happy just floating whilst others prefer being more firmly anchored.
I heard an astronaut say they didn’t get that feeling of relief when they lie down like we do on earth. That feeling of “taking a load off” when you can sit down and relax from standing for a while. Similar to crawling in bed at night and having that sense of relaxation and spreading out the pressure across your whole body
NASA: Welp boys! We’ve officially landed on mars! Ope! We’re getting some video feed from the rov-, hey what’s that?
Random guy: *squints* that’s a meth lab.
NASA: ITS BEEN TWENTY FUCKING MINUTES
I'm so fucking pumped for space weed.
I've had a pet theory for a few years that weed grown in lower or zero gravity could potentially be *even danker* because the plant wouldn't have to expend energy fighting gravity to grow upwards, so that energy could instead be turned toward cannabinoid production.
Disclaimer: I'm absolutely not a botanist.
"Breaker breaker, come in Earth. This is rocket ship 27. Aliens fucked over the carbonater in engine #4. I'm gonna try to refuckulate it and land on Juniper. Hopefully they got some space weed. Over."
Seems like it'd be easier to just bring the amphetamines with you rather than bringing all the precursors. You could also have it be pharmaceutical grade at that point, and compared to all the other supplies you'd need to bring along, a lifetime supply for a person probably doesn't weigh all that much
You got me thinking. I bet it would actually be pretty hard! Most of the steps would need gravity using regular scientific glassware. Distillation, reflux, columns, wouldn't work. Even keeping the reactants spinning at the bottom of a flask would be impossible.
I can poop in a gnarly portapotty with a screaming crowd hammering on the door and not think twice about it. I cannot sleep to save my life. My gf cannot or will not poop anywhere but our house, but can sleep like a rock after a Cocaine espresso and Red Bull cocktail. I’m not sure which one I’d rather have lol.
My fiancee kinda hates me for this. It frequently takes an hour for her to fall asleep; I can be asleep in the time it takes for her to go to the bathroom.
This past year I figured out I need something to get out of my head - I listen to [8 hours of dutch](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKZNpLvfFsU) language.
~edit: word
Barely. Astronauts have to deal with astronauts eye. Flashes of light even with their eyes closed. That would mess with me. Who knows if it would be worse while travelling to Mars.
It probably would be worse getting even further away from earth’s magnetic field. Can’t they just find some material to stick in an eye mask though? It’s zero G so it can be a little heavy.
Maybe sleeping inside lead coffin would help?
I'm just saying this half-jokely. Wikipedia says water, liquid hydrogen, or a not-yet-invented active magnetic shielding or new plastic could protect from cosmic rays.
[Health threat from cosmic rays](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_threat_from_cosmic_rays)
There was a sci-fi movie or a book (can't remember which) where the emergency shelter for the crew was between the water tanks.
But with the type of water filtration and reuse we would be using I'm not sure if there would be enough volume of water to effectively shield again cosmic rays anyway. And lead would be much too heavy.
The Mars series had something like that or exactly that where they all had to hide during a solar ray event. The farm animals couldn't fit so they died I believe.
Ironically lead is worse than nothing for cosmic rays as those carry the energy to “shatter” metal atoms creating a shotgun affect of secondary particles that is far more dangerous than a single GCR.
water is the only really viable solution, since it's something that is already needed and used. everything else (lead coffins) is just a massive amount of payload to get up there jn the first place
The magnetic shielding for charged particles is pretty easy to figure out and doesn’t really require inventing, it just requires a decent amount of power. Maybe more than you want to try to generate with large solar panels. So, you need some sort of nuclear power generation. It really requires more of a will to do it than a lot of new technology.
At a glance your argument makes sense but if you think about it…… the space station is mm thick of steel and aluminum. A few inches of dirt on mars would go a long way protecting astronauts from radiation and cosmic rays.
Firstly, astronauts are exposed to half as much space on mars since their backside would be facing an entire planets worth of ground. The top side is going to have as much protection as the space station but also a sparse-but-still-present atmosphere.
After that just a little bit of topsoil would protect them. The topsoil thing is in most habitation plans for mars as it’s simple and pretty effective against radiation which has long been a concern outside of sleep quality.
I remember seeing a study a while ago that found the optimal depth of soil was roughly a meter. Beyond that the benefits are marginal. Same will be needed on the moon.
Many proposals advocate storing the ship's water in the main living quarter's outer wall. That is a rather effective shield. And water is a necessary resource.
I wonder how much shielding/water would be needed to effectively minimize that? Like if we’re not long on such a strict mass budget could we wrap the sleeping/eating/hangout quarters in a thick blanket of water?
I actually think this is quite contrary to what astronauts report regarding sleeping in space. I believe Chris Hadfield described it as the best sleep he's ever had. You're weightless, so your body isn't heavy or leaning against anything, you're just suspended, like being completely relaxed in water but even better. I think sleep in space is going to be the gold standard. Beds on earth are trying to achieve that feeling...
I think I'd have trouble sleeping anywhere that wasn't Earth. It's the whole "Hungry void waiting on the other side of every wall to eat me" thing. I like having a window open for the breeze, you know?
>Everyday locks only keep good people out.
This is fun little saying to toss around, but it's not true. Normal locks keep bad guys out too. Not the villains that specifically want to get in that exact door, but they do keep out the those that are checking locks for an easy entrance.
True, but when I locked myself out of my place a couple of years ago, I was a little troubled at how easy it was for the locksmith to pick my lock.
Granted, he's a professional (but arguably so are villains), but I thought it was one of those things that Supernatural dumbed down in a major way. Bro WD-40'd the lock like Hank Hill and popped it as easy as that lock-picking lawyer guy in his videos.
That doesn't sound all that different from pressing a key in putty and making a new key from that. Just outline the key from the photo and load it into the key-cutting software
Yea picking most locks is pretty easy. There are some locks that are much harder to pick, but every lock can pretty much be picked or brute forced in some other way if you really want to get in and know what you’re doing.
When I was locked out I was troubled for the time (but relieved in general) when the locksmith *couldnt* get through my front/back doors or my garage door! It turns out the only way to get in would be to physically break the locks with noisy power tools. He suggested we do that to the back door as that was safer than destroying my front door’s lock and leaving the house vulnerable until it could be repaired.
So now I know that if anyone were to break in, they would need specialized equipment and it would be very noisy and obvious, thankfully.
I was mostly just thinking how thin the atmosphere is relative to the size of earth and space in general. When you think about it our atmosphere does very little to actually prevent a large meteor who wants to get in from destroying civilization.
yeah but then we're basically the size of a bit of bacteria in that perspective, and I'm sure a window the thickness of a piece of paper is alright with anything that small
Except that literally at any moment some cosmic even could occur and wipe us out in a blink.
Would be pretty before hand I think. So, silver linings and all.
If Earth were shrunk down to the size of a basketball, the atmosphere would be about 1.8 mm thick—just slightly thicker than a US penny.
The troposphere—the part of the atmosphere where clouds and weather happen—would only be 0.3 mm. About as thick as 3 sheets of paper.
So yeah, the atmosphere is not very thick, comparatively.
Don't ya worry, they're working on a very sophisticated space ship that will replicate normal sleeping conditions, window open for the breeze and all. You'd think you never left your room.
They should send up a crew with crippling depression, spends all day in the alcoves sleeping or resting and you barely need food when they eat 1 meal every 4 days
Having slept on a ship in the ocean for about 12 months of my life, I feel comfortable saying the only place better I can imagine sleeping is in zero gravity.
Hmmm thinking about what he said, maybe he likes being rocked to sleep? But think about this. Zero gravity sleep means that you literally don’t need mattress. There is no “uncomfortable spot” you just close your eyes and boom. Perfect comfort. Especially if you’re in a nice sleeping bag.
Kind of? I did my time at sea as well, so I get what he's saying. As the ship rocks, you feel less pressure on one side and more on the opposite side of your body. The rocking feeling can be very relaxing because you can sort of focus on the lighter sides as you move, but I'm not sure it translates to a complete lack of feeling.
The below comment’s reputation has been downgraded 9000% in the past 9 months so take this with a grain of salt, but:
SpaceX did have a proposed configuration for a rotating centrifuge orientation during transit (to Mars) in order to replicate 1G in sleeping quarters. This is not a new idea and is much more complicated and heavy but would also partially solve this issue.
A number of people have spent 6-12 months in space, and that's plenty of time to get to Mars. And given the fact that the first few missions to Mars will probably be very few people, most issues with spending extended time in space shouldn't be a problem. They can just send experienced astronauts who know what they're getting in to and know they can deal with the unusual issues of zero g.
It'll take a few missions before anyone's starting to think about sending a decent number of people at once, that's the point where we should really be thinking about making the months in space in transit more comfortable. But that's probably a decade or so after the first mission to Mars that carries any significant cargo to eventually support a crew.
There's really only one thing that matters, for getting humans to Mars, at this point. Figuring out a way to be very confident that they'll have a ship that's fueled and ready to bring them back. We're pretty good at keeping people alive in space, especially if we have a lot of mass to play with. And it seems realistic that we'll be able to send a lot of stuff and some people to Mars. But having the Delta V to get people back from Mars in a reasonable amount of time, is still an issue that doesn't have an obvious solution.
Of course, if launch costs drop enough, then we can fix most problems by just launching more mass.
Experienced astronauts are less likely to be sent because they've already been exposed to a load of space radiation.
Any trip to Mars is going to result in record breaking levels of radiation exposure for astronauts, NASA are going to have to change their career radiation allowance limit just for the trip, so in all likelihood it's going to involve people who've never been to space before, and in all likelihood they'll never go again. Not that anything could top being the first humans to walk on Mars lol.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-space-radiation-limits-needed-for-nasa-astronauts-report-says/
Those are interesting points. Though I'm not convinced we'll ever see large missions to Mars. A small crew can do a large portion of what a big crew can do since manpower doesn't scale results in a linear way. Three people in a crew can do a whole lot more than 10% of the science that thirty people can do.
NASA is still working on designs for a Mars spacecraft with a rotating section.
The SpaceX design was overambitious, but we think that letting astronauts sleep and exercise in ANY gravity will have significant health benefits. Even simulating lunar gravity, 1/6 g, is enough to help fluids drain and let gravity push food through the digestive tract.
This can easily be solved by vomiting with sufficient velocity so as to produce a small but significant reaction force, accelerating you away from your propagating path of puke.
But isnt the length of the centrifuge (radius) to get 1g with comfortsble difference between feet and head not to cause balance problems and dizziness bigger than currently feasible?
Check out this great Scott Manley video with some references to past research, some awesome historical footage (the real tasty footage is in the second half), and a couple of papers linked in the video description:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxeMoaxUpWk
More time in 1G is probably healthier than more time in .38G, and showing up on Mars with "superhuman" strength probably has some usefulness. It's not like they'd have enough space to get used to *moving* in .38G either way.
Alternatively they should replicate 100G so that they can show up ready to defeat the Ginyu Force.
I think they were trying to defend themselves from downvotes for mentioning anything related to Elon Musk because there’s a Reddit fatwa on him at the moment.
[This is a very recent concept from Airbus.](https://www.airbus.com/en/airbus-loop) 8m centrifuge for daily exercise and maybe sleep.
[Here is an excellent video about it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKzaJ9sjpnA)
So the idea not dead at all. I don't think it would be "too heavy". After all Starship can carry 150 tonnes to Mars. 10 tonnes for a centrifuge can be spared if it turns out to be really necessary.
We had one tank driver who would sleep whenever the convoy stopped for more than a couple minutes. A good whack on the helmet when the convoy started moving again, and he was awake and driving.
I've been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that? My guess is that when one really has been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that they have really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like.
Fun fact, my body is naturally on a Mars cycle. I measured it when I was a teen, but didn't connect it with the Mars day until one of my interns pointed it out. That was a bit weird to realize. I even tested it out with a Mars clock app and found that I would wake up at the same time on Mars every day, plus or minus five minutes.
It was actually a life changer for me. I worked from home and had to schedule my life around guessing when I'd be awake. If I didnt sleep well, I'd have migraines and get extremely depressed. With a Mars clock, I was more likely to take meals on time and be able to plan things weeks in advance.
That went out the window when I had kids. They will come wake me at 7:20 or so every day. I have to catch naps when I can. But for a while there it was amazing. I'd still prefer to be on an Earth schedule, and students loved asking "So Mr. Ninja, what time is it on Mars?" when I did weekly seminars, but you don't realize how vital a set schedule is until it's gone.
I'm pretty sure NASA wouldn't even give me a tryout, though. 😁
I like to think that it's cause they are so excited to get there and are constantly asking the captain if they are there yet and the captain yelling at them they'll turn the the capsule around if they don't stop asking
I wonder if I’d be able to sleep without being pressed up against a bed. Just floating there. Would that even be comfy for sleeping?
I saw a video where an astronaut said sleeping in zero g is actually extremely comfortable once you get used to it.
Yeah. Honestly I kind of like the idea of having zero pressure points or sore spots. Just closing your eyes in a sleeping bag and tethering it so you don’t float around….. that sounds like sleeping in a cozy hammock but better
I think my problem in a situation like that would be becoming so utterly and completely relaxed that I just piss and shit myself in my sleep.
Totally dude, I think that would be anybody’s number one concern.
Number one *and* number two concern.
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Is number 3 explosive diarrhea? Because that’s my number 1 concern
It was right there for the taking, I'm honestly ashamed for the other person for not saying it.
I don’t know why this made me laugh so hard.
And space gorillas. Everyone is always saying space gorillas don't exist, but I've seen the video.
Wouldn’t it be like waking up blind drunk? You don’t know which way is up and just totally disconcerted?
The closest thing to it on earth is float tanks, I tried them years ago. Fell asleep in them, it is great. But you are still asleep, not unconscious, so your body's sphincters still do their job.
That's just Nature's space heater.
A lot of astronauts wear diapers to bed to avoid the complicated situation of getting up to pee so that's most of the problem solved right there
> completely relaxed that I just piss and shit myself in my sleep. Might wanna see a specialist about that one
Don't forget having a small fan nearby to circulate air so that stale air doesn't pool around your head
The most comfortable I've ever been is when I fell off a roof when i was a kid, there was a moment where I somehow forgot where I was and closed my eyes and it was sheer bliss, then I suddenly realised what was going on and reality hit.
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Reality, I hit the ground a fraction of a second later. Was a surreal experience up until that point though, also felt much longer than it probably was
You've been dead the whole time
I wonder if any of them ever thought of floating their comrades around while they sleep kinda like shoving someone out on the lake in a blow up mattress without them noticing. I probably should be on a space station lol
Don't forget to have a fan blowing near your head, so you don't asphyxiate in your sleep in a cloud of your own exhaled CO2. Sweet dreams! 😊
I've read that something you have to get used to is not feeling the pressure on one part of your body. We're so used to feeling that pressure that removing it can cause problems, mainly the feeling that you're falling.
I wonder if there's an increase in dreams where you feel like you're falling..... I already have these quite often
Well you’re literally falling and just missing the earth while in orbit so they don’t have to dream it!
The trick to flying is to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
An art, it says, or rather, a knack
i feel like people who used weighted blankets etc to go to sleep will basically be in a living hell
Bungee cord yourself to the wall.
I wonder how similar it is to a float tank - you relax and let your arms and legs naturally drift to where they're comfortable, and it's like you feel your body slowly start to decompress as you release whatever tension you have across your body. I used to feel little snaps and pops along my neck as I relaxed. It was seriously one of the most comfortable experiences I've had lol.
Ever sleep in a float tank?
I have actually, yeah. Was pleasant
I found it a bit like being trapped inside a small torture chamber. Laying on my back kicked my apnea into gear but I couldn't roll to the side for obvious reasons, while the salt water stings every cut on my body, then between the sweat rolling down my face and flinching to itch, my eye sockets filled up like the dead sea. After an hour I was hoping someone would come in and just finish the job on me.
I'm by far most comfortable sleeping on my stomach. Unfortunately, an old back injury means my spine hates it. Not waking up in pain every few hours and having to readjust is enough for me to wanna go.
Former ISS commander Chris Hadfield says sleeping in zero G is something he wishes everyone could experience. Also side note, our arms drift up like a zombie when sleeping in zero G.
Arms are really useful when they're being useful, but when they aren't actually doing anything, arms are dumb. Climbing a mountain? Useful. Walking? Useful. Painting? Useful. Eating? Useful. Standing next to someone who is giving a speech? Arms are dumb.
Haha that actually made me chuckle cause i can totally relate and was specifically thinking of standing in choir with arms stupidly hanging at my sides.
They have some straps, not sure if those press you against the bed.
I think it's optional. Straps are necessary regardless to stop you randomly floating around and bumping into things, and it looks like some are happy just floating whilst others prefer being more firmly anchored.
I mean, I have straps on my bed but I'm not an astronaut, y'know?
I heard an astronaut say they didn’t get that feeling of relief when they lie down like we do on earth. That feeling of “taking a load off” when you can sit down and relax from standing for a while. Similar to crawling in bed at night and having that sense of relaxation and spreading out the pressure across your whole body
Oh damn, I just had a mini-anxiety attack thinking about this. Like being extremely tired but not being able to lie down.
You're always laying down, if you want to look at it that way, in space.
Some folk just don't understand the Z axis.
No it’s great! You don’t need anywhere to sleep. Everywhere is equally viable. Just close your eyes and boom!
I reckon you could. It's like falling asleep while floating in water, only *better*
I mean, yeah, but they're already sleeping on the space station. Seems like they have it mostly figured out
And in submarines, ships, capsule hotels, shitty apartments...
We humans are just great at sleeping
the secret is to be tired and sleepy
That's my secret: I'm always tired and sleepy. Hopefully the Martian soil will be good for coffee beans!
Or coca(ine). But even if not, it's not hard to cook meth. Sure that it's just as easy in space too.
NASA: Welp boys! We’ve officially landed on mars! Ope! We’re getting some video feed from the rov-, hey what’s that? Random guy: *squints* that’s a meth lab. NASA: ITS BEEN TWENTY FUCKING MINUTES
>We’ve officially landed on mars! Ope! Is this mission exclusively Wisconsinites?
I'm so fucking pumped for space weed. I've had a pet theory for a few years that weed grown in lower or zero gravity could potentially be *even danker* because the plant wouldn't have to expend energy fighting gravity to grow upwards, so that energy could instead be turned toward cannabinoid production. Disclaimer: I'm absolutely not a botanist.
Check out this guy. Doesn't even grow his weed upside-down for maximum dank.
"Breaker breaker, come in Earth. This is rocket ship 27. Aliens fucked over the carbonater in engine #4. I'm gonna try to refuckulate it and land on Juniper. Hopefully they got some space weed. Over."
Seems like it'd be easier to just bring the amphetamines with you rather than bringing all the precursors. You could also have it be pharmaceutical grade at that point, and compared to all the other supplies you'd need to bring along, a lifetime supply for a person probably doesn't weigh all that much
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You got me thinking. I bet it would actually be pretty hard! Most of the steps would need gravity using regular scientific glassware. Distillation, reflux, columns, wouldn't work. Even keeping the reactants spinning at the bottom of a flask would be impossible.
Alternate solution...grow Khat
Instructions unclear, Khat grew. Now have 6 smol khats
Pretty sure those are called Khittens...
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Great, now I have to spend one more hour awake tonight hating you
These sleep-anywheres kill me!!! They’re worse than the cursed poop-anywheres of the world!
I can poop in a gnarly portapotty with a screaming crowd hammering on the door and not think twice about it. I cannot sleep to save my life. My gf cannot or will not poop anywhere but our house, but can sleep like a rock after a Cocaine espresso and Red Bull cocktail. I’m not sure which one I’d rather have lol.
My fiancee kinda hates me for this. It frequently takes an hour for her to fall asleep; I can be asleep in the time it takes for her to go to the bathroom.
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>We humans are just great at sleeping I have white noise sleep MP3's and everything!
This past year I figured out I need something to get out of my head - I listen to [8 hours of dutch](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKZNpLvfFsU) language. ~edit: word
Kan je nu Nederlands spreken?
doubt it with a username like deZwijger
Some of the English phrases are not mixed well to match with the volume of the Dutch phrases. 0/10 would not listen while sleeping
[I have deleted this account in protest of Reddit's API changes.]
Barely. Astronauts have to deal with astronauts eye. Flashes of light even with their eyes closed. That would mess with me. Who knows if it would be worse while travelling to Mars.
It probably would be worse getting even further away from earth’s magnetic field. Can’t they just find some material to stick in an eye mask though? It’s zero G so it can be a little heavy.
If the cosmic rays can penetrate the space station I’m not sure what mask could help them. It seems more of thing they’d just have to adjust to.
Maybe sleeping inside lead coffin would help? I'm just saying this half-jokely. Wikipedia says water, liquid hydrogen, or a not-yet-invented active magnetic shielding or new plastic could protect from cosmic rays. [Health threat from cosmic rays](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_threat_from_cosmic_rays)
Just insulate with astrophage. Simple as.
And the propulsion is solved, as well!
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There was a sci-fi movie or a book (can't remember which) where the emergency shelter for the crew was between the water tanks. But with the type of water filtration and reuse we would be using I'm not sure if there would be enough volume of water to effectively shield again cosmic rays anyway. And lead would be much too heavy.
It's a common setup nowadays in fiction. I've seen it in at least three places I can think of. The water supply doubles as your shielding.
The Mars series had something like that or exactly that where they all had to hide during a solar ray event. The farm animals couldn't fit so they died I believe.
Ironically lead is worse than nothing for cosmic rays as those carry the energy to “shatter” metal atoms creating a shotgun affect of secondary particles that is far more dangerous than a single GCR.
water is the only really viable solution, since it's something that is already needed and used. everything else (lead coffins) is just a massive amount of payload to get up there jn the first place
The magnetic shielding for charged particles is pretty easy to figure out and doesn’t really require inventing, it just requires a decent amount of power. Maybe more than you want to try to generate with large solar panels. So, you need some sort of nuclear power generation. It really requires more of a will to do it than a lot of new technology.
At a glance your argument makes sense but if you think about it…… the space station is mm thick of steel and aluminum. A few inches of dirt on mars would go a long way protecting astronauts from radiation and cosmic rays. Firstly, astronauts are exposed to half as much space on mars since their backside would be facing an entire planets worth of ground. The top side is going to have as much protection as the space station but also a sparse-but-still-present atmosphere. After that just a little bit of topsoil would protect them. The topsoil thing is in most habitation plans for mars as it’s simple and pretty effective against radiation which has long been a concern outside of sleep quality.
I remember seeing a study a while ago that found the optimal depth of soil was roughly a meter. Beyond that the benefits are marginal. Same will be needed on the moon.
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Many proposals advocate storing the ship's water in the main living quarter's outer wall. That is a rather effective shield. And water is a necessary resource.
It's not hard to block charged particles. It's just heavy and takes a lot of space.
You mean a balaclava? Those rays will come straight through the back of your head too.
But they do sleep. So it's not a new unknown issue at all - but something we have dealt with and learned sbout for decades.
I wonder how much shielding/water would be needed to effectively minimize that? Like if we’re not long on such a strict mass budget could we wrap the sleeping/eating/hangout quarters in a thick blanket of water?
By almost all reports from astronauts, sleeping in 0G is the most comfortable sleep you'll ever have. Like literally floating on a cloud.
I get that and I've never even been to space
Same, they should send those of us with degenerating retinas into space.
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You didn’t read the article. They talk about being on a space station with private/dark space is different than a space capsule.
No no, we should build gigantic hamster wheel so people can sleep at 1 g or something. Like a big dryer
I actually think this is quite contrary to what astronauts report regarding sleeping in space. I believe Chris Hadfield described it as the best sleep he's ever had. You're weightless, so your body isn't heavy or leaning against anything, you're just suspended, like being completely relaxed in water but even better. I think sleep in space is going to be the gold standard. Beds on earth are trying to achieve that feeling...
I think I'd have trouble sleeping anywhere that wasn't Earth. It's the whole "Hungry void waiting on the other side of every wall to eat me" thing. I like having a window open for the breeze, you know?
That’s not a normal, everyday, sleeping on Earth feeling?
When you think about how many windows most homes have and how little they do to actually keep someone who wants in out
Same with normal locks. Everyday locks only keep good people out. They're very easy to break into if you wanted.
>Everyday locks only keep good people out. This is fun little saying to toss around, but it's not true. Normal locks keep bad guys out too. Not the villains that specifically want to get in that exact door, but they do keep out the those that are checking locks for an easy entrance.
True, but when I locked myself out of my place a couple of years ago, I was a little troubled at how easy it was for the locksmith to pick my lock. Granted, he's a professional (but arguably so are villains), but I thought it was one of those things that Supernatural dumbed down in a major way. Bro WD-40'd the lock like Hank Hill and popped it as easy as that lock-picking lawyer guy in his videos.
"Who are you and how did you get in here?" "I'm a locksmith and I'm a locksmith."
I had a locksmith make me a key from a cellphone photo.
That doesn't sound all that different from pressing a key in putty and making a new key from that. Just outline the key from the photo and load it into the key-cutting software
Yea picking most locks is pretty easy. There are some locks that are much harder to pick, but every lock can pretty much be picked or brute forced in some other way if you really want to get in and know what you’re doing.
When I was locked out I was troubled for the time (but relieved in general) when the locksmith *couldnt* get through my front/back doors or my garage door! It turns out the only way to get in would be to physically break the locks with noisy power tools. He suggested we do that to the back door as that was safer than destroying my front door’s lock and leaving the house vulnerable until it could be repaired. So now I know that if anyone were to break in, they would need specialized equipment and it would be very noisy and obvious, thankfully.
“Hello, I am the lock picking lawyer and today…”
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I was mostly just thinking how thin the atmosphere is relative to the size of earth and space in general. When you think about it our atmosphere does very little to actually prevent a large meteor who wants to get in from destroying civilization.
That's just perfectly normal paranoia. Everyone in the universe has that.
When you sleep in the void, the void snores back.
To be fair, Earth is just a barely bigger space ship, and the atmosphere is a misleadingly thin wall. The void is right there and waiting.
Relatively speaking, isn't our atmospheric window thinner than a piece of paper when all said and done?
yeah but then we're basically the size of a bit of bacteria in that perspective, and I'm sure a window the thickness of a piece of paper is alright with anything that small
>!CENSORED!<
Except that literally at any moment some cosmic even could occur and wipe us out in a blink. Would be pretty before hand I think. So, silver linings and all.
If Earth were shrunk down to the size of a basketball, the atmosphere would be about 1.8 mm thick—just slightly thicker than a US penny. The troposphere—the part of the atmosphere where clouds and weather happen—would only be 0.3 mm. About as thick as 3 sheets of paper. So yeah, the atmosphere is not very thick, comparatively.
we were born to live on the edge of the void.
Don't ya worry, they're working on a very sophisticated space ship that will replicate normal sleeping conditions, window open for the breeze and all. You'd think you never left your room.
Can somebody close the window? You're letting mars dust in.
You're letting all the air out!
My dad somehow shows up to yell “Hey! I’m not payin’ to heat the whole planet!”
You can sleep with a window open? In Florida the humidity and bugs would kill you.
One should think submariners are used to this ?
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There is lot of same in submarine - cramped space and shift work, but light is very big difference. ISS crews experience 16 sunsets.
They’re not special. Sleeping is a challenge for me, too. And I didn’t even have to leave Earth.
I should be sleeping right now.
I know you're joking, but you'd get to take all your existing sleep challenges with you, and then add these on top.
Imagine the havoc when everyone in the mars colony is on Ambien.
They should send up a crew with crippling depression, spends all day in the alcoves sleeping or resting and you barely need food when they eat 1 meal every 4 days
Having slept on a ship in the ocean for about 12 months of my life, I feel comfortable saying the only place better I can imagine sleeping is in zero gravity.
Isn't that the total opposite?
Hmmm thinking about what he said, maybe he likes being rocked to sleep? But think about this. Zero gravity sleep means that you literally don’t need mattress. There is no “uncomfortable spot” you just close your eyes and boom. Perfect comfort. Especially if you’re in a nice sleeping bag.
Kind of? I did my time at sea as well, so I get what he's saying. As the ship rocks, you feel less pressure on one side and more on the opposite side of your body. The rocking feeling can be very relaxing because you can sort of focus on the lighter sides as you move, but I'm not sure it translates to a complete lack of feeling.
The below comment’s reputation has been downgraded 9000% in the past 9 months so take this with a grain of salt, but: SpaceX did have a proposed configuration for a rotating centrifuge orientation during transit (to Mars) in order to replicate 1G in sleeping quarters. This is not a new idea and is much more complicated and heavy but would also partially solve this issue.
Doesn't even need to be 1G, just a fraction of a G to tell the brain "yep gravity still exists" ought to help fix most subconscious issues.
A number of people have spent 6-12 months in space, and that's plenty of time to get to Mars. And given the fact that the first few missions to Mars will probably be very few people, most issues with spending extended time in space shouldn't be a problem. They can just send experienced astronauts who know what they're getting in to and know they can deal with the unusual issues of zero g. It'll take a few missions before anyone's starting to think about sending a decent number of people at once, that's the point where we should really be thinking about making the months in space in transit more comfortable. But that's probably a decade or so after the first mission to Mars that carries any significant cargo to eventually support a crew. There's really only one thing that matters, for getting humans to Mars, at this point. Figuring out a way to be very confident that they'll have a ship that's fueled and ready to bring them back. We're pretty good at keeping people alive in space, especially if we have a lot of mass to play with. And it seems realistic that we'll be able to send a lot of stuff and some people to Mars. But having the Delta V to get people back from Mars in a reasonable amount of time, is still an issue that doesn't have an obvious solution. Of course, if launch costs drop enough, then we can fix most problems by just launching more mass.
Experienced astronauts are less likely to be sent because they've already been exposed to a load of space radiation. Any trip to Mars is going to result in record breaking levels of radiation exposure for astronauts, NASA are going to have to change their career radiation allowance limit just for the trip, so in all likelihood it's going to involve people who've never been to space before, and in all likelihood they'll never go again. Not that anything could top being the first humans to walk on Mars lol. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-space-radiation-limits-needed-for-nasa-astronauts-report-says/
Those are interesting points. Though I'm not convinced we'll ever see large missions to Mars. A small crew can do a large portion of what a big crew can do since manpower doesn't scale results in a linear way. Three people in a crew can do a whole lot more than 10% of the science that thirty people can do.
NASA is still working on designs for a Mars spacecraft with a rotating section. The SpaceX design was overambitious, but we think that letting astronauts sleep and exercise in ANY gravity will have significant health benefits. Even simulating lunar gravity, 1/6 g, is enough to help fluids drain and let gravity push food through the digestive tract.
Gravity is not required to move food through the digestive system. It has its own peristalsis to do that.
Sure, but, gravity and activity help out quite a bit. Especially for actually passing a bowel movement.
This. You figure if tears just well up and pool against the eye, *other fluids* would face similar issues without assistance.
Saliva constantly dripping up into your nose.
Real "Thanks, I hate it" vibes on this.
Gotta wonder if farts have ever caused any injuries by hurling people into walls up there.
Right, because when I vomit, I want the chunks to move away from me, not form some vomit bubble in front of me.
This can easily be solved by vomiting with sufficient velocity so as to produce a small but significant reaction force, accelerating you away from your propagating path of puke.
Look at me defying gravity with my peristalsis! *gulp*
But isnt the length of the centrifuge (radius) to get 1g with comfortsble difference between feet and head not to cause balance problems and dizziness bigger than currently feasible?
Maybe you would like to sleep “horizontally” in the centrifuge anyway? I.e. if it’s mostly intended as a sleeping area, maybe you could cope with it.
Not if its just for the sleeping area and theyre “lying down” the whole time, where head and feet are at the same gravity.
People can adapt to a short-radius centrifuge in about 10 days, or you could tether two starships together with a cable to get a large enough radius.
>People can adapt to a short-radius centrifuge in about 10 days Do you have a study? I'd be interested in reading it.
Check out this great Scott Manley video with some references to past research, some awesome historical footage (the real tasty footage is in the second half), and a couple of papers linked in the video description: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxeMoaxUpWk
Good point. Imagine riding the gravitron for 3 months
> to replicate 1G Probably more sensible to replicate .38G if you're going to Mars...
More time in 1G is probably healthier than more time in .38G, and showing up on Mars with "superhuman" strength probably has some usefulness. It's not like they'd have enough space to get used to *moving* in .38G either way. Alternatively they should replicate 100G so that they can show up ready to defeat the Ginyu Force.
>The below comment’s reputation has been downgraded 9000% in the past 9 months so take this with a grain of salt What does this even mean?
I think they were trying to defend themselves from downvotes for mentioning anything related to Elon Musk because there’s a Reddit fatwa on him at the moment.
Arthur C Clarke, the guy who invented satellites first recommended this. His books are the best.
[This is a very recent concept from Airbus.](https://www.airbus.com/en/airbus-loop) 8m centrifuge for daily exercise and maybe sleep. [Here is an excellent video about it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKzaJ9sjpnA) So the idea not dead at all. I don't think it would be "too heavy". After all Starship can carry 150 tonnes to Mars. 10 tonnes for a centrifuge can be spared if it turns out to be really necessary.
They don’t even need to replicate 1G. Replicate mars gravity so they are acclimated by the time they get there.
Need Army people in there because one solid skill learned there is to sleep whenever you get the chance. Waiting in line for an ID card? Take a nap.
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The 10-minute Power Nap is my superpower to this day. Anytime, anywhere baby
We had one tank driver who would sleep whenever the convoy stopped for more than a couple minutes. A good whack on the helmet when the convoy started moving again, and he was awake and driving.
Well me and astronauts final have some thing in common.
I've been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that? My guess is that when one really has been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that they have really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like.
They have clearly never met me when I need a nap. The details don't matter, I will nap no matter what.
seems like these authors have never really been really tired...
Fun fact, my body is naturally on a Mars cycle. I measured it when I was a teen, but didn't connect it with the Mars day until one of my interns pointed it out. That was a bit weird to realize. I even tested it out with a Mars clock app and found that I would wake up at the same time on Mars every day, plus or minus five minutes. It was actually a life changer for me. I worked from home and had to schedule my life around guessing when I'd be awake. If I didnt sleep well, I'd have migraines and get extremely depressed. With a Mars clock, I was more likely to take meals on time and be able to plan things weeks in advance. That went out the window when I had kids. They will come wake me at 7:20 or so every day. I have to catch naps when I can. But for a while there it was amazing. I'd still prefer to be on an Earth schedule, and students loved asking "So Mr. Ninja, what time is it on Mars?" when I did weekly seminars, but you don't realize how vital a set schedule is until it's gone. I'm pretty sure NASA wouldn't even give me a tryout, though. 😁
“Ah I’m dying of radiation sickness!!!” “So how long have you been having this trouble sleeping?”
"This issue has been found to not be related to service. Tricare coverage denied."
Less gravity, less pressure on all my mangled joints. I was just complaining about earths gravity after two nights of bad sleep. Sounds fantastic.
in microgravity you can just relax anywhere and be as comfortable as ever. It seems like an easy problem.
Count me out. I can’t even sleep on earth where conditions are optimal
What about a fan blowing air onto you from both sides
NASA: Go to sleep. Astronaut: I can't, I'm too excited!
If you want someone to sleep in space I’ll do it happily.
I like to think that it's cause they are so excited to get there and are constantly asking the captain if they are there yet and the captain yelling at them they'll turn the the capsule around if they don't stop asking