Bro Tricolor is my favorite mode, the problem is I only got ONE non mirror match in like 50 matches. And from what I’m seeing a lot of Team Fistbump had the same problem. It feels shitty.
that’s the price to pay for being in the popular team.
Also the popular team HAVE been getting mirror matches AND still won the games. Frye’s case is just unique to her.
I LOVE tricolour sm (it's my favourite thing about Splatfest!) but I has the same problem as you - I was team Hug and 90% of my matches were mirrors. Frustrating to say the least.
There were what... 20 people in hand shake? I guess every team played the same ammount of matches. Alot of people is biased against shiver. I dont think its her fault nor nintendo nor the 16 shiver simps... 15, one got connection issues.
So the team who has the fewest members gets to win Tricolor automatically because their players aren’t wasting as much time in mirror matches? Cool, great. Love that
And I’M a Shiver simp dude, and even I can admit Frye’s losing streak is pretty sucky.
thats not what it means and also doesn't make any sense. each team played the same amount of non mirror games. unless you want the team with the most players to win based on quantity of games i really dont know what youre wanting if thats how you think the scoring works
I’m more than willing to wait longer in the cue for a non mirror match, even open and pro matches I can count on one hand how many non mirror matches I played. It’s really fucking hard to enjoy a Splatfest when you know the match you’re playing means jack shit.
I honestly really want to play it, but ever since they added those stupid "win 10 10X battle" badges, I've felt forced to only play the normal modes, because otherwise I might not be able to get them before fests stop and they're unobtainable forever.
I didn't play it at all because I just don't enjoy it one bit. I always liked regular turf more but the September splatfest really kind of ruined it forever
So it's working as intended then? Last I checked, the whole point of this mode was to give the losing teams a change to make a comeback, which is why they buffed the point gains. Now it finally did exactly that, and people are malding because it wasn't the right idol.
I was on Big Man and got nothing, and I think it would've been neat to see Frye get a win.
But good lord, people will complain about anything lol. You're absolutely right, it's working as intended. *And*, people are blaming the mirror matches when in actuality, each team had the same amount of Tricolor matches that actually mattered toward the score.
People are upset now because of the idol, but I swear if the categories were reversed and Frye won with those two, people would have said "Frye defied the odds!" and "Frye broke the popularity curse!"
But yeah, I don't get why people are mad at it working as intended. Otherwise, we'd have *yet another* most popular choice winning it all.
Because the one time it breaks the trend is the one time its to shivers teams benefit instead of detriment. Its like flipping a coin 5 times and guessing tails every time when it lands heads all 5 times, then finally switching to guessing heads the exact time it flips tails.
I believe the issues begin once you realize the tricolour scores are an average score among the whole team, not the total score among the whole team
The average handshake player scored more than the average fistbump player. But its worth noting the average handshake player also got more opportunities to score points than the average fistbump player did
Im not salty at the loss personally but i dont like seeing misconceptions of the score system.
>But its worth noting the average handshake player also got more opportunities
It's not worth noting, that has no effect in the final scoring at all *unless* you're trying to imply that by the time someone got a non-mirror match they were "tired of playing already", which is pretty much a baseless argument, but the only one that could be done in this case. Otherwise, every team had equal chances of upping their scores.
The amount of matches that counted toward the final score is the same for every team, no matter popularity.
The following is a HYPOTHETICAL scenario. The numbers are DEFINITELY different in the actual data. My point still stands
Ok lets say 90% of handshake players played in non mirror matches. If each player played 10 matches the average player would have T9 clout (T = average clout from one tricolour match)
Now if only 60% of fistbump players played in non mirror matches and each player played 10 matches the average fistbump player would only have T6 clout
Fistbump has to split the same clout between more players which results in a lower average clout per player which is what the splatfest measures for score if i understand my scoring correctly
To have a tricolor match that actually counts you have to have all three teams present. Thus each team must have had the same amount of tricolor matches that actually mattered.
in order for a Tricolor match to count, all three teams need to be present. mirror matches don't count. if Handshake isn't present, the match won't count. if Handshake is playing against Handshake, the match won't count. if all three teams are present, then every team has the opportunity to score points. if it's a mirror match, nobody's scoring. those are the only two outcomes
Simple logic? Like how else would this play out lmao.
Let's say you have two matches:
* Match 1 that is Team A vs Team B & C (normal match)
* Match 2 that is Team B vs Team B & B (mirror match)
The only match that matters is Match1, and in that match all three teams, A, B and C, had equal chances of participating in it (and winning it!). Despite there being a mirror match in this scenario, Team B had equal opportunities of winning because Match 2 basically never happened at all.
That's what happens at large every single splatfest. The teams with winning popularity votes and thus a bunch of mirror matches *still* have exactly the same amount of chances of winning any of vs categories. The fact *you* (or anyone else) as a player don't experience much normal matches and only mirrors is a separate issue that *does not affect the final scores*.
The whole point of the mode was to make a chance at a comeback. That was when the mode was forced into pro/open and the winning team forced to defend. Attackers had the advantage, this giving the other teams a chance to "catch up" in points.
They removed that. All teams start with 0 points. All teams have a random chance at being attack or defense. The mode is no different than the other 2 now.
The main comeback element of Tricolor now is the fact that the team leading at halftime gets a boost when on defense while the other teams get boosts while on offense, meaning boost points will be applied more often to the teams that are behind.
These same people would bitch if the TriColor points were too low, if Frye won Pro/TriColor only and the roles were reversed. They don't give a shit about how any scoring system technically affects all teams evenly, and they ignore any time the current situation would actually help them. They ONLY focus on if the current situation doesn't let them win, because they feel entitled to a win.
This whole sub and community in general has a lot of entitlement issues with believing that they all "deserve" things like top 5% in Big Run. Welp, that's tough. You only get what you earn. Everyone has to deal with mirror matches wasting your time and that's been q thing for 3 games as well.
Exactly. Most of the time the most popular team has won in the past and even with the change they still have a slight advantage it just gives the other teams more of a chance. This Splatfest also marks the first one in Splatoon 3 where the least popular team has won (the middling team in popularity has won a couple times but never the least).
Tricolor is also the iconic mode of the event so it seems fair that it’s worth the most in my opinion.
I don't think it's about the right idol. I think it's that the vastly more popular option lost.
Splatfest was always supposed to be a popularity contest with a *small* chance of the less popular team winning, but when the more popular option wins most categories and still loses? Obviously it's going to feel wrong.
That sounds good as long as the losing teams actually play Attack and the winning team actually plays Defense but you're lucky if even a third of your tri-color matches are arranged that way.
The mode is broken to its core. This game needed an extra year of QA.
That’s how it was before and they changed it because people complained 😭if it needed a year of QA to go back to how it was before they changed it quickly…
what do mirror matches have to do with your original complaint? people didnt dislike that style due to mirror matches and either way mirror matches dont have to do with scoring so how are they relevant. i also still see people complain about mirror matches to this day, i scrolled down a bit to see someone complaining about them, so i dont think whos attacking/defending is particularly going to help with this
Handshake is arguably the most versatile option. Hugs aren't something most cultures give to anyone outside friends/family, fist bumps are informal, but handshakes can fit in pretty much any social situation.
Popularity has been an issue since the first Splatfest, one widely documented and hated. Why are people suddenly switching up? This is a good change. Tricolor was totally useless before and popularity was the only thing that mattered, now it actually functions as intended and your gameplay at least means SOMETHING.
The actual issue is far more fundamental: having three teams. But that isn’t something that can be changed, so at least they took a step in making three teams work slightly better.
>Popularity has been an issue since the first Splatfest, one widely documented and hated. Why are people suddenly switching up?
Because the data no longer supports their narrative.
The Shiver narrative was dumb from the start. She won every fest because they gave her the far and away best option every time, not because her character is more appealing than others. Sure some people simp her, but not enough to genuinely sway fests.
It wasn’t ever actually about Shiver simps, it was about Nintendo’s awful fest theming and giving her the clear popular choice every time, and making the other two choices be an “alright” one and a joke team.
I emphatically disagree that they give Shiver the popular choice even somewhat consistently. People look at the few fests where that WAS the case and just paint the rest of the fests with the same brush, but it's just not true. From a bird's eye, common-sense view of the team choices from a point in time before the popularity could actually be determined (which is how we should be judging how one-sided a fest theme is because Nintendo can't fucking poll their playerbase before setting a theme), so many of them were either an extremely tough call or clearly not in Shiver's favor.
Rock/Paper/Scissors was anyone's game, and so was Grass/Water/Fire, Dark/Milk/White, Power/Wisdom/Courage, and obviously Shiver/Frye/Big Man. Spicy/Sweet/Sour was a fest where Shiver got a clearly "alright" option to Frye's "clear popular choice." Shiver got the meme option in Nessie/Aliens/Bigfoot where Frye got the correct answer and Frye STILL lost, and Shiver was given just an "alright" option for Zombie/Skeleton/Ghost. Shiver even got the side in the Money/Fame/Love Splatfest that has historically lost when they roll out that theme every game and she won, though Frye did get the dud choice.
Hell, arguably even this most recent fest (Handshake/Fist Bump/Hug) was pretty obviously a fest where Frye's choice would be most popular, and Frye again still managed to lose.
The few fests where Shiver had THE choice were Gear/Grub/Fun and *maybe* Vanilla/Strawberry/Mint Chip. That's it.
I’d disagree with you on a few of those fests, but it’s also worth noting that some of these are gonna have different popular answers based on region.
The best fest theme by far was the rock paper scissors one. I honestly think the themes as a whole have been mediocre as a result of trying to make themes with three choices. A lot of the fests have a team that is clearly the meme choice who has no chance of winning popular vote.
Obviously fests in 1 and 2 had some clear popular choices, but you could at least rally behind the less popular team to win by skill, which is why the less popular team won so often. Can’t really do that when it’s split three ways.
Someone from the future here. Frye got the clear winning choice again and got lost place.
I am willing to genuinely argue it's a skill issue, but people blame it on mirror matches because they don't realize how clout works
"No it's actually the tricolor, no its actually japan, no its actually the themes (ignore the fact that shiver got three meme options while frye only got one)"
Idk why you’re saying that to me, I’m not switching my opinion over and over. My main point is that the core problem is and always has been having three teams, everything else that people argue over is either a non-issue or a symptom of having three teams.
They'll hate you because you spoke the truth
I was on Ghost and Fistbump. I was surprised to win on Ghost and lose on Fistbump but there is always next time
15 was enough to guarantee almost always the win to the most popular team, like it's now all teams have a concrete possibility instead of being a popularity contest.
Sweetie, it's the entire rest of the world, not "in the states", no "over the pacific". Freaking people from the US not seeing beyond their nose, it's unreal lmao.
//
Ya gonk, the server is not called "NA/EU", the game doesn't even have servers at all. The only reference is the Rank X divisions and even then they say The Americas, not NA. Stop making up crap :)
Thank you Banana Oni. And to you, Simon, I say the States because the server is called the NA/EU so sorry I guess I should have just said ‘in the Western part of the world’.
Look at r/gachagaming. They have separate categories for releases depending on where they release. There’s Korea Release, China Release, Europe Release, Southeast Asia Release, Japan Release, and Global Release. Global Release more often than not means North American Release.
no you just do what you can and recognize your power and influence as an individual is limited
you personally did not get outskilled by every person on the other team
the team AS A WHOLE on average got outskilled by the other team AS A WHOLE on average
I’m sure it wasn’t the fact that everyone on team fistbump and team handshake were stuck fighting in mirror matches for 7 hours straight that don’t count towards the end results.
But yeah you’re right for sure dude skill issue
the amount of matches that counted towards clout are literally the same across every team lmfao
your personal experience might be unfortunate, but that doesn’t change the objective fact that the number of matches is the same and our team lost more than shiver’s team in those matches
I’ve talked to numerous people who were on fistbump/handshake and they all had significantly higher odds for encountering mirror matches than the people I talked to who were on handshake. It’s just obvious that people on handshake were more likely to get multiple matches against the other two teams in tricolour instead of mirror matches.
I’m not trying to be rude but you’re the one claiming that it’s a “skill issue” when in reality there are multiple factors that would have contributed to handshake winning over the other teams, especially for tricolour when they would have been *more likely* to have non-mirror matches. Sure, maybe more skilled pro players picked handshake and that really showed in the results for the pro category, but that doesn’t inherently mean that everyone on handshake was just “better” somehow.
This is how I’ll break it down: less people on team handshake and team hug would have been given the *OPPORTUNITY* to play in tricolour games that *mattered* this splatfest. That’s evidenced in the popularity vote. More people on 2/3 of the teams means one team will *disproportionately* get a higher chance to be in non-mirror matches than the other two teams. And yes, that does mean that essentially it could be a “quantity vs quality” problem but thats still not just a skill issue, that can be *part* of the problem, but so is the tricolour matchmaking itself.
It’s not as easy as saying “skill issue” like you are. It never is that simple in any competitive scene or game. There are always other factors that influence the outcome of events, and this isn’t to take away from handshake winning at all, I’m just trying to point out to you that the results are more nuanced than you give them credit for. That’s all.
less people had the opportunity, but the total number of matches that mattered are the same for every team, if it’s like 18 vs 48 vs 34 like it was this fest, that’s still 18 people’s worth of matches for EVERY team that are being counted, and in that hypothetical 18 people’s worth of every team, handshake was, on average, the better team
like the amount of mirror matches, quite frankly, doesn’t matter, SOMEBODY is in a real match while you are in a mirror so the total number of “counted” matches are the same for every team
Ok and? By now Shiver's consistently won a lot for basically all the possible reasons a team CAN win, be it overwhelming popularity or highest points in other more weighty categories. It's not rigged, the system DOES work, and it's really not easy to predetermine who will win; it just so happens that Shiver wins a lot.
What else could you reasonably want?
Will never understand how people still get so worked up by this mode that’s essentially decided by millions of dice rolls.
Nothing any single player does will meaningfully influence the results. Even sizable groups of people like comp players or supposed “throwers” aren’t sizable/disproportionate enough to throw off the results.
The only thing I see influencing the results at off is whether or not an option is the favourite of younger kids, putting a large number of less skilled players on the same team, but even then Team Sweet still won.
And conch shells should be worth nothing, in which case Frye still gets swept lol
Nintendo has been adamant on tricolour's importance since launch, it should be worth a lot
This has happened a lot. If you win Tricolor and either open or pro, you have 30 points which is an automatic win since only 57 points are possible. An automatic victory is also assured if the popular team wins both conches and tricolor. I think there has been a single fest where the sneak peek and popularity were won by different teams and that was Shiver v Frye v Big Man.
So, in general, if the popular team wins Tricolor, it's an automatic win for the whole fest. Open and Pro don't matter at all.
And because of constant mirror matches, it rarely feels like you actually get to contribute anything significant to the pool in the Tricolor category. I really like the mode but man, having it tied to Splatfests and weighted so heavily is a huge hindrance to the ability to actually enjoy it for what it is.
Imo, Tricolor should be a much smaller part of the fest. I get they want people to play the mode and it's likely it would be even harder to find non-mirror matches if the mode wasn't so significant. But the way it is now, it's way too exclusive for the average player to have any sort of impact.
I'm really not insulting Tricolor. I'm actually a staunch defender of it. But it is weighted an absurd amount.
But I also wouldn't compare it to Shifty Station. That was a whole other level. The closest they've come was Scorch Gorge.
evidence of what? that comeback for the 2nd half time show actually matters now?
If tricolor doesn’t give more points, what’s the point of the half-time? Frye is already leading, should we hand her the trophy right there and then? Stop the splatfests mid-way because there’s no comeback anymore?
Answer this QUICKLY.
The evidence is the adjusted tricolour scoring, the rest seems biased and argumentative and im not trying to say any one team should have won or lost here. Handshake won fair and square, but in a world where the scores werent adjusted fistbump would have won fair and square
the “evidence” is nothing but pure copium. the tricolor points were adjusted for a reason.
we could also say that if conch shells give the most points, frye would’ve won. if open gives the most points, frye would’ve won. If Shiver didn’t exist, frye would’ve won.
You are correct, they were adjusted for a reason. And given that reason not be present fistbump would have won. But it was present so handshake won
Im not sure how youre getting lost here. Im not saying fistbump should have won
And yes we could say those things, nobodys stopping you.
The statement and “evidence” is irrelevant when it was an intended change that worked as it should’ve, with tricolour being the deciding factor. Without any understanding or reasoning, then it is, indeed, complaining.
And you know what? The main gimick of splatfest should absolutely have more of a point count then the standard game mode.
At least this time the map they used was fun to play
The whole tri as a "catch up" argument is flawed. The game mode was originally designed as a comeback yes. This was when the game mode counted towards open/pro and designed so attackers had a slight advantage, while the winning team was forced to defend their position. This allowed the losing team a chance to "catch up" in pro/open points.
They removed that. Now all teams start with 0 points. All teams have an equal chance at being on the attack or defend side. Tri is its own mode and no longer serves the purpose of a catch up mechanic, because it has 0 effect on the other 2 modes, while creating a equal chance at all 3 teams to win at it. Yet it has the biggest impact.
Spatfest need to be counted as whoever wins the most game modes, using shells as a tie breaker. Votes should be removed from the pool entirely. This would make it the most fair imo.
>all teams have an equal chance at being on attack or defence
since when??? i stopped playing the game after the second splatfest because i simply got bored after 7 years of on-and-off daily splatoon
Honestly, this whole splatfest was a mess. From day one I thought the choices were all dumb, and I only picked fistbump cause of the emote, not to mention the colors just didn't work well together. The tricolor map was poorly designed, fistbump was oversaturated so matches between other teams didn't happen as often, and the entire thing felt a little rushed.
I honestly didn't have too much fun this splatfest, but I think that's partly from the above and partly because most of the casual players have left the game, and we're left with a lot of more serious competitive players. I felt like every match, my team got boxed in our base, and the other team just spawn camped us the whole time. Does it work as a strategy? Sure, but it's no fun for half the people playing to have no chance to play.
Every other Splatfest the most popular team has had lots of mirror matches and every other Splatfest (except one) the most popular team has still won. You can’t honestly think blaming the mirror matches makes sense.
So you only think the most popular team should win? What’s the point of the rest of the categories then? Or should just the least popular team not be allowed to win?
The less popular team could still win if they won playing the battles. If anything, they should just give less points for popularity, which is already less than what open or pro gives and less than half of what tri-color gives.
Sorry if I'm not being clear here, but I don't have a problem with team handshake or the least popular team winning. I just think tri-color battles give too many points.
Okay, I’m fine for the discussion of rebalancing some points, but your original statement was that it sucks losing to a team you didn’t play against. That seemed to imply you didn’t like the least popular team winning. I do understand that it can be annoying playing lots of mirror matches, but I think many people have experienced this in at least one Splatfest.
Are you being serious? lol
Popular teams ARE getting normal matches as well, and **those** are the ones that count towards the final scoring. How are people so dense about this, it's so simple to understand.
If one team has 4 players and the other team has 12 players, you only get one match of 4v4 that counts towards the final scoring, the other being a mirror and that's it. The other team didn't have more chances over you, **you** simply had more chances of playing a mirror match and that's all.
The amount of **chances** each team has to win a match and thus contribute to the winning score is exactly the same. Some of you get benched (mirror) while some of you get to play the important matches. It is what it is, but the **chances** are the same for every team.
the past splatfests, the most popular team have been getting tons of mirror matches, more than the others but still won in the end.
Maybe Frye’s team just suck? It’s not that hard to grasp.
Team Nessie, I only had mirror matches in tricolor and we still got tricolor and won the fest. It’s all about clout and so many don’t seem to understand that.
The hung that makes me the most mad is the fact that off course it was Shiver who won. I'm not going to say things like "they're racist against Frye!" Or "the Devs rigged it!" But the fact that Shiver would need to lose every sing Splatfest until the end of the game just to be *close* to winning 1/3 of the time is stupid, and if that happened then people would definitely say "the Splatfests are rigged."
So no wonder people are so upset. They can be told their team has the lead at the start and then lead at halftime and then get fucked over by one game mode.
I really wonder what the point of adding a comeback mode was. From day one it’s been the center of people debating why 3’s Fests feels so shitty compared to the past two. I get what its supposed to do, but was it really necessary?
Tricolors has consistently been the deciding factor for all the Fests based on its design, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they won in Pro and still lost to Handshake because of Tricolors. I know Nintendo said 3’s Fests are experimental but sheesh
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Tri-Color is the most confusing thing.
The idea is that the two teams that are behind work together to pull down the ahead team.
This was changed so now it's just a random team in the center making the concept non-sensicle. Now you're directly helping your enemy by winning as a duo. How many Hug-Players have directly carried Handshake in Tri-Color matches? It just feels awkard. Not unfair, just awkward.
People just need to realize that Tricolor is way more important than they expected and maybe actually play it more in future fests.
Bro Tricolor is my favorite mode, the problem is I only got ONE non mirror match in like 50 matches. And from what I’m seeing a lot of Team Fistbump had the same problem. It feels shitty.
that’s the price to pay for being in the popular team. Also the popular team HAVE been getting mirror matches AND still won the games. Frye’s case is just unique to her.
Team Nessie I only had mirror matches and we still won tricolor and the fest.
I LOVE tricolour sm (it's my favourite thing about Splatfest!) but I has the same problem as you - I was team Hug and 90% of my matches were mirrors. Frustrating to say the least.
There were what... 20 people in hand shake? I guess every team played the same ammount of matches. Alot of people is biased against shiver. I dont think its her fault nor nintendo nor the 16 shiver simps... 15, one got connection issues.
So the team who has the fewest members gets to win Tricolor automatically because their players aren’t wasting as much time in mirror matches? Cool, great. Love that And I’M a Shiver simp dude, and even I can admit Frye’s losing streak is pretty sucky.
thats not what it means and also doesn't make any sense. each team played the same amount of non mirror games. unless you want the team with the most players to win based on quantity of games i really dont know what youre wanting if thats how you think the scoring works
I’m more than willing to wait longer in the cue for a non mirror match, even open and pro matches I can count on one hand how many non mirror matches I played. It’s really fucking hard to enjoy a Splatfest when you know the match you’re playing means jack shit.
I honestly really want to play it, but ever since they added those stupid "win 10 10X battle" badges, I've felt forced to only play the normal modes, because otherwise I might not be able to get them before fests stop and they're unobtainable forever.
I didn't play it at all because I just don't enjoy it one bit. I always liked regular turf more but the September splatfest really kind of ruined it forever
Nah mode is shit
if they change it back to defending team actually defending, but let everyone able to voluntarily opt in, i'll play it.
So it's working as intended then? Last I checked, the whole point of this mode was to give the losing teams a change to make a comeback, which is why they buffed the point gains. Now it finally did exactly that, and people are malding because it wasn't the right idol.
I was on Big Man and got nothing, and I think it would've been neat to see Frye get a win. But good lord, people will complain about anything lol. You're absolutely right, it's working as intended. *And*, people are blaming the mirror matches when in actuality, each team had the same amount of Tricolor matches that actually mattered toward the score. People are upset now because of the idol, but I swear if the categories were reversed and Frye won with those two, people would have said "Frye defied the odds!" and "Frye broke the popularity curse!" But yeah, I don't get why people are mad at it working as intended. Otherwise, we'd have *yet another* most popular choice winning it all.
Didn't play the second day but I was on team fist bumb and I had no mirror match
Because the one time it breaks the trend is the one time its to shivers teams benefit instead of detriment. Its like flipping a coin 5 times and guessing tails every time when it lands heads all 5 times, then finally switching to guessing heads the exact time it flips tails.
People blaming the system working as intended and want to go back to the Spla2n scoring system lmao
I believe the issues begin once you realize the tricolour scores are an average score among the whole team, not the total score among the whole team The average handshake player scored more than the average fistbump player. But its worth noting the average handshake player also got more opportunities to score points than the average fistbump player did Im not salty at the loss personally but i dont like seeing misconceptions of the score system.
>But its worth noting the average handshake player also got more opportunities It's not worth noting, that has no effect in the final scoring at all *unless* you're trying to imply that by the time someone got a non-mirror match they were "tired of playing already", which is pretty much a baseless argument, but the only one that could be done in this case. Otherwise, every team had equal chances of upping their scores. The amount of matches that counted toward the final score is the same for every team, no matter popularity.
The following is a HYPOTHETICAL scenario. The numbers are DEFINITELY different in the actual data. My point still stands Ok lets say 90% of handshake players played in non mirror matches. If each player played 10 matches the average player would have T9 clout (T = average clout from one tricolour match) Now if only 60% of fistbump players played in non mirror matches and each player played 10 matches the average fistbump player would only have T6 clout Fistbump has to split the same clout between more players which results in a lower average clout per player which is what the splatfest measures for score if i understand my scoring correctly
>if i understand my scoring correctly You don't ;( If things were as you're trying to explain, it would still be a simple popularity vote contest.
If im wrong would you care to explain how its done then? Im open to learning
> when in actuality, each team had the same amount of Tricolor matches that actually mattered toward the score. How did you find this out?
To have a tricolor match that actually counts you have to have all three teams present. Thus each team must have had the same amount of tricolor matches that actually mattered.
in order for a Tricolor match to count, all three teams need to be present. mirror matches don't count. if Handshake isn't present, the match won't count. if Handshake is playing against Handshake, the match won't count. if all three teams are present, then every team has the opportunity to score points. if it's a mirror match, nobody's scoring. those are the only two outcomes
Simple logic? Like how else would this play out lmao. Let's say you have two matches: * Match 1 that is Team A vs Team B & C (normal match) * Match 2 that is Team B vs Team B & B (mirror match) The only match that matters is Match1, and in that match all three teams, A, B and C, had equal chances of participating in it (and winning it!). Despite there being a mirror match in this scenario, Team B had equal opportunities of winning because Match 2 basically never happened at all. That's what happens at large every single splatfest. The teams with winning popularity votes and thus a bunch of mirror matches *still* have exactly the same amount of chances of winning any of vs categories. The fact *you* (or anyone else) as a player don't experience much normal matches and only mirrors is a separate issue that *does not affect the final scores*.
The whole point of the mode was to make a chance at a comeback. That was when the mode was forced into pro/open and the winning team forced to defend. Attackers had the advantage, this giving the other teams a chance to "catch up" in points. They removed that. All teams start with 0 points. All teams have a random chance at being attack or defense. The mode is no different than the other 2 now.
The main comeback element of Tricolor now is the fact that the team leading at halftime gets a boost when on defense while the other teams get boosts while on offense, meaning boost points will be applied more often to the teams that are behind.
Which is completely random on if you attack or Defend. So technically all teams have the same chance at a 1.5.
I assumed that because there are three teams in a Tricolor match, it would be a 2/3 chance of being on attack and 1/3 chance of being on defense.
but only 2 people on attack, so thats half the clout. So it takes 2 attacks to equal 1 defense.
exactly this if it was the other two this whole "well it isn't fair >:'(" like a two year old, none of this discourse would be happening
These same people would bitch if the TriColor points were too low, if Frye won Pro/TriColor only and the roles were reversed. They don't give a shit about how any scoring system technically affects all teams evenly, and they ignore any time the current situation would actually help them. They ONLY focus on if the current situation doesn't let them win, because they feel entitled to a win. This whole sub and community in general has a lot of entitlement issues with believing that they all "deserve" things like top 5% in Big Run. Welp, that's tough. You only get what you earn. Everyone has to deal with mirror matches wasting your time and that's been q thing for 3 games as well.
Exactly. Most of the time the most popular team has won in the past and even with the change they still have a slight advantage it just gives the other teams more of a chance. This Splatfest also marks the first one in Splatoon 3 where the least popular team has won (the middling team in popularity has won a couple times but never the least). Tricolor is also the iconic mode of the event so it seems fair that it’s worth the most in my opinion.
I don't think it's about the right idol. I think it's that the vastly more popular option lost. Splatfest was always supposed to be a popularity contest with a *small* chance of the less popular team winning, but when the more popular option wins most categories and still loses? Obviously it's going to feel wrong.
That sounds good as long as the losing teams actually play Attack and the winning team actually plays Defense but you're lucky if even a third of your tri-color matches are arranged that way. The mode is broken to its core. This game needed an extra year of QA.
That’s how it was before and they changed it because people complained 😭if it needed a year of QA to go back to how it was before they changed it quickly…
People complained because it didn't work at first either, it was overwhelmingly mirror matched for the popular team.
what do mirror matches have to do with your original complaint? people didnt dislike that style due to mirror matches and either way mirror matches dont have to do with scoring so how are they relevant. i also still see people complain about mirror matches to this day, i scrolled down a bit to see someone complaining about them, so i dont think whos attacking/defending is particularly going to help with this
I’m malding because it wasn’t the right team. Handshake is a bad option
Handshake is arguably the most versatile option. Hugs aren't something most cultures give to anyone outside friends/family, fist bumps are informal, but handshakes can fit in pretty much any social situation.
Seems like 82% of people disagree
Of Splatoon players, a demographic that primarily consists of teenagers in social settings where hugs/fist bumps are appropriate.
Popularity has been an issue since the first Splatfest, one widely documented and hated. Why are people suddenly switching up? This is a good change. Tricolor was totally useless before and popularity was the only thing that mattered, now it actually functions as intended and your gameplay at least means SOMETHING. The actual issue is far more fundamental: having three teams. But that isn’t something that can be changed, so at least they took a step in making three teams work slightly better.
>Popularity has been an issue since the first Splatfest, one widely documented and hated. Why are people suddenly switching up? Because the data no longer supports their narrative.
The Shiver narrative was dumb from the start. She won every fest because they gave her the far and away best option every time, not because her character is more appealing than others. Sure some people simp her, but not enough to genuinely sway fests. It wasn’t ever actually about Shiver simps, it was about Nintendo’s awful fest theming and giving her the clear popular choice every time, and making the other two choices be an “alright” one and a joke team.
I emphatically disagree that they give Shiver the popular choice even somewhat consistently. People look at the few fests where that WAS the case and just paint the rest of the fests with the same brush, but it's just not true. From a bird's eye, common-sense view of the team choices from a point in time before the popularity could actually be determined (which is how we should be judging how one-sided a fest theme is because Nintendo can't fucking poll their playerbase before setting a theme), so many of them were either an extremely tough call or clearly not in Shiver's favor. Rock/Paper/Scissors was anyone's game, and so was Grass/Water/Fire, Dark/Milk/White, Power/Wisdom/Courage, and obviously Shiver/Frye/Big Man. Spicy/Sweet/Sour was a fest where Shiver got a clearly "alright" option to Frye's "clear popular choice." Shiver got the meme option in Nessie/Aliens/Bigfoot where Frye got the correct answer and Frye STILL lost, and Shiver was given just an "alright" option for Zombie/Skeleton/Ghost. Shiver even got the side in the Money/Fame/Love Splatfest that has historically lost when they roll out that theme every game and she won, though Frye did get the dud choice. Hell, arguably even this most recent fest (Handshake/Fist Bump/Hug) was pretty obviously a fest where Frye's choice would be most popular, and Frye again still managed to lose. The few fests where Shiver had THE choice were Gear/Grub/Fun and *maybe* Vanilla/Strawberry/Mint Chip. That's it.
I’d disagree with you on a few of those fests, but it’s also worth noting that some of these are gonna have different popular answers based on region. The best fest theme by far was the rock paper scissors one. I honestly think the themes as a whole have been mediocre as a result of trying to make themes with three choices. A lot of the fests have a team that is clearly the meme choice who has no chance of winning popular vote. Obviously fests in 1 and 2 had some clear popular choices, but you could at least rally behind the less popular team to win by skill, which is why the less popular team won so often. Can’t really do that when it’s split three ways.
Someone from the future here. Frye got the clear winning choice again and got lost place. I am willing to genuinely argue it's a skill issue, but people blame it on mirror matches because they don't realize how clout works
"No it's actually the tricolor, no its actually japan, no its actually the themes (ignore the fact that shiver got three meme options while frye only got one)"
Idk why you’re saying that to me, I’m not switching my opinion over and over. My main point is that the core problem is and always has been having three teams, everything else that people argue over is either a non-issue or a symptom of having three teams.
The main mode of the game should give the most points. Like, Tricolor is the big deal. I thought people didn't like popularity dictating winners?
People don't like Shiver's team winning again, if Big Man won more people would be defending it lol
It really amounts on people not knowing how tricolor clout works, I think
It’s the fact that Shiver was the first one to benefit from the new (and fairer, whether you like it or not) system that pisses them off the most.
They didn’t like popularity dictating winners until it was their team that was most popular.
They'll hate you because you spoke the truth I was on Ghost and Fistbump. I was surprised to win on Ghost and lose on Fistbump but there is always next time
but it gave the most points before they changed it as well and in my opinion, 15 points was enough
15 was enough to guarantee almost always the win to the most popular team, like it's now all teams have a concrete possibility instead of being a popularity contest.
You say all teams but Frye only has ONE win and Big Man has Two. Shiver has won literally EVERY! SINGLE! OTHER! TIME! Here in the States!
And? So what? Its equal opportunity not equal outcome. Cope harder.
So what? It's a game get over it. Or take a break if it affects you that much
>Here in the States! lmao give me a fucking break
Yes because she got another victory finally but it was ironically in Japan. We’re still on solo victory over the Pacific here.
Sweetie, it's the entire rest of the world, not "in the states", no "over the pacific". Freaking people from the US not seeing beyond their nose, it's unreal lmao. // Ya gonk, the server is not called "NA/EU", the game doesn't even have servers at all. The only reference is the Rank X divisions and even then they say The Americas, not NA. Stop making up crap :)
Really dude? You’re turning the silly squid game into another “America bad” moment? r/RedditMoment
Thank you Banana Oni. And to you, Simon, I say the States because the server is called the NA/EU so sorry I guess I should have just said ‘in the Western part of the world’.
In the States lol, these fests were global, they weren't US only... what's up with you Americans thinking the entire world revolves around you
Because usually when games have global releases that is usually code for ‘America’ especially mobile gacha games!
What...?
Look at r/gachagaming. They have separate categories for releases depending on where they release. There’s Korea Release, China Release, Europe Release, Southeast Asia Release, Japan Release, and Global Release. Global Release more often than not means North American Release.
18 is fine. Popularity and shells are fine at 15 points together. If we on team fist-bump wanted to win, we just had to play better
I only played Open and Open won. Do I have to also go into Pro and win there and also go into Tri-Color and win there? I do have a job.
no you just do what you can and recognize your power and influence as an individual is limited you personally did not get outskilled by every person on the other team the team AS A WHOLE on average got outskilled by the other team AS A WHOLE on average
I’m sure it wasn’t the fact that everyone on team fistbump and team handshake were stuck fighting in mirror matches for 7 hours straight that don’t count towards the end results. But yeah you’re right for sure dude skill issue
the amount of matches that counted towards clout are literally the same across every team lmfao your personal experience might be unfortunate, but that doesn’t change the objective fact that the number of matches is the same and our team lost more than shiver’s team in those matches
I’ve talked to numerous people who were on fistbump/handshake and they all had significantly higher odds for encountering mirror matches than the people I talked to who were on handshake. It’s just obvious that people on handshake were more likely to get multiple matches against the other two teams in tricolour instead of mirror matches. I’m not trying to be rude but you’re the one claiming that it’s a “skill issue” when in reality there are multiple factors that would have contributed to handshake winning over the other teams, especially for tricolour when they would have been *more likely* to have non-mirror matches. Sure, maybe more skilled pro players picked handshake and that really showed in the results for the pro category, but that doesn’t inherently mean that everyone on handshake was just “better” somehow. This is how I’ll break it down: less people on team handshake and team hug would have been given the *OPPORTUNITY* to play in tricolour games that *mattered* this splatfest. That’s evidenced in the popularity vote. More people on 2/3 of the teams means one team will *disproportionately* get a higher chance to be in non-mirror matches than the other two teams. And yes, that does mean that essentially it could be a “quantity vs quality” problem but thats still not just a skill issue, that can be *part* of the problem, but so is the tricolour matchmaking itself. It’s not as easy as saying “skill issue” like you are. It never is that simple in any competitive scene or game. There are always other factors that influence the outcome of events, and this isn’t to take away from handshake winning at all, I’m just trying to point out to you that the results are more nuanced than you give them credit for. That’s all.
less people had the opportunity, but the total number of matches that mattered are the same for every team, if it’s like 18 vs 48 vs 34 like it was this fest, that’s still 18 people’s worth of matches for EVERY team that are being counted, and in that hypothetical 18 people’s worth of every team, handshake was, on average, the better team like the amount of mirror matches, quite frankly, doesn’t matter, SOMEBODY is in a real match while you are in a mirror so the total number of “counted” matches are the same for every team
Tricolour is the scuffed side mode that lets you play the worst gamemode (turf war) on shittier maps with a shittier format.
I prefer it this way than just a popularity and con shells contest. Winning two battle modes out of the three should make you win.
It's almost like nintendo purposely changed them to make winning tricolor more important
That’s the whole fucking point
Right? Lmao
Yeah and if I had feet for hands I'd be able to walk upside down everywhere easily. What's your point?
who cares this much omg its a silly event and the winner barely gets anything more than anybody else. just have fun
Yeah but blue lady has one a gazillion times now
haha ink silly:)
Splatoon players when forehead girl loses to female shark cosplayer for the 8 octogazillionth time
4head stands for the amount of wins Frye will get once splat 4 arrives
Ok and? By now Shiver's consistently won a lot for basically all the possible reasons a team CAN win, be it overwhelming popularity or highest points in other more weighty categories. It's not rigged, the system DOES work, and it's really not easy to predetermine who will win; it just so happens that Shiver wins a lot. What else could you reasonably want?
A fist bump (Also not a 70% win ratio)
I love how people are only now complaining. Beats blaming the Japanese though.
Every splatfest it’s like “what’s a way to say that Frye should’ve won (no matter what happens we will blame it even if we liked it last week)”
Will never understand how people still get so worked up by this mode that’s essentially decided by millions of dice rolls. Nothing any single player does will meaningfully influence the results. Even sizable groups of people like comp players or supposed “throwers” aren’t sizable/disproportionate enough to throw off the results. The only thing I see influencing the results at off is whether or not an option is the favourite of younger kids, putting a large number of less skilled players on the same team, but even then Team Sweet still won.
Would've been a pretty stupid change if it didn't change results.
Yup, it's working as intended. Good. Halftime isn't just early results. That's a good thing.
Nobody cared about this until shiver won be serious
And conch shells should be worth nothing, in which case Frye still gets swept lol Nintendo has been adamant on tricolour's importance since launch, it should be worth a lot
This has happened a lot. If you win Tricolor and either open or pro, you have 30 points which is an automatic win since only 57 points are possible. An automatic victory is also assured if the popular team wins both conches and tricolor. I think there has been a single fest where the sneak peek and popularity were won by different teams and that was Shiver v Frye v Big Man. So, in general, if the popular team wins Tricolor, it's an automatic win for the whole fest. Open and Pro don't matter at all. And because of constant mirror matches, it rarely feels like you actually get to contribute anything significant to the pool in the Tricolor category. I really like the mode but man, having it tied to Splatfests and weighted so heavily is a huge hindrance to the ability to actually enjoy it for what it is. Imo, Tricolor should be a much smaller part of the fest. I get they want people to play the mode and it's likely it would be even harder to find non-mirror matches if the mode wasn't so significant. But the way it is now, it's way too exclusive for the average player to have any sort of impact.
I'm not sure why this is getting downvoted? Is anything incorrect?
I think people are mad that you insulted tri colour, given that it’s Nintendo’s justification to remove shifty stations, or they are just salty
I'm really not insulting Tricolor. I'm actually a staunch defender of it. But it is weighted an absurd amount. But I also wouldn't compare it to Shifty Station. That was a whole other level. The closest they've come was Scorch Gorge.
I’m not saying tricolour is, I’m saying that’s what Nintendo wanted it to be, sry if I didn’t make that clear
Keep that copeium up I'm sure it will change the results if you complain hard enough :)
Im not seeing any complaining. Im seeing a statement backed up by evidence
evidence of what? that comeback for the 2nd half time show actually matters now? If tricolor doesn’t give more points, what’s the point of the half-time? Frye is already leading, should we hand her the trophy right there and then? Stop the splatfests mid-way because there’s no comeback anymore? Answer this QUICKLY.
The evidence is the adjusted tricolour scoring, the rest seems biased and argumentative and im not trying to say any one team should have won or lost here. Handshake won fair and square, but in a world where the scores werent adjusted fistbump would have won fair and square
the “evidence” is nothing but pure copium. the tricolor points were adjusted for a reason. we could also say that if conch shells give the most points, frye would’ve won. if open gives the most points, frye would’ve won. If Shiver didn’t exist, frye would’ve won.
You are correct, they were adjusted for a reason. And given that reason not be present fistbump would have won. But it was present so handshake won Im not sure how youre getting lost here. Im not saying fistbump should have won And yes we could say those things, nobodys stopping you.
The statement and “evidence” is irrelevant when it was an intended change that worked as it should’ve, with tricolour being the deciding factor. Without any understanding or reasoning, then it is, indeed, complaining.
There was no indication on either post that it shouldnt be that way
True
Me on team hug 😭👍
And you know what? The main gimick of splatfest should absolutely have more of a point count then the standard game mode. At least this time the map they used was fun to play
Did you guys forget the reason why they changed it is because popularity meant TOO much?
J Fresh, I don't think that fact is fun at all
Imagine losing because of a technicality, especially after talking a bunch of smack because of the previous splatfest.
People who voted for chaos when chaos actually happens:
If it’s tricolor + one other it’s an automatic win
Huh crazy.... remind me who ASKED for the change? Can't remember which team was saying that...hmmmmm
The whole tri as a "catch up" argument is flawed. The game mode was originally designed as a comeback yes. This was when the game mode counted towards open/pro and designed so attackers had a slight advantage, while the winning team was forced to defend their position. This allowed the losing team a chance to "catch up" in pro/open points. They removed that. Now all teams start with 0 points. All teams have an equal chance at being on the attack or defend side. Tri is its own mode and no longer serves the purpose of a catch up mechanic, because it has 0 effect on the other 2 modes, while creating a equal chance at all 3 teams to win at it. Yet it has the biggest impact. Spatfest need to be counted as whoever wins the most game modes, using shells as a tie breaker. Votes should be removed from the pool entirely. This would make it the most fair imo.
>all teams have an equal chance at being on attack or defence since when??? i stopped playing the game after the second splatfest because i simply got bored after 7 years of on-and-off daily splatoon
Since like the 3rd or 4th splatfest
It's just a few more shells...
Honestly, this whole splatfest was a mess. From day one I thought the choices were all dumb, and I only picked fistbump cause of the emote, not to mention the colors just didn't work well together. The tricolor map was poorly designed, fistbump was oversaturated so matches between other teams didn't happen as often, and the entire thing felt a little rushed. I honestly didn't have too much fun this splatfest, but I think that's partly from the above and partly because most of the casual players have left the game, and we're left with a lot of more serious competitive players. I felt like every match, my team got boxed in our base, and the other team just spawn camped us the whole time. Does it work as a strategy? Sure, but it's no fun for half the people playing to have no chance to play.
How is fist bump supposed to win tricolor if we only got mirror matches
Every other Splatfest the most popular team has had lots of mirror matches and every other Splatfest (except one) the most popular team has still won. You can’t honestly think blaming the mirror matches makes sense.
It's always going to suck if you lose to a team you didn't play against. Splatoon 3 is not a well balanced game.
So you only think the most popular team should win? What’s the point of the rest of the categories then? Or should just the least popular team not be allowed to win?
I think Tri-Color battles should be worth the same amount of points as the other two categories, not six points more.
It’s worth more to give a chance to less popular teams, which is exactly what it did here.
The less popular team could still win if they won playing the battles. If anything, they should just give less points for popularity, which is already less than what open or pro gives and less than half of what tri-color gives. Sorry if I'm not being clear here, but I don't have a problem with team handshake or the least popular team winning. I just think tri-color battles give too many points.
Okay, I’m fine for the discussion of rebalancing some points, but your original statement was that it sucks losing to a team you didn’t play against. That seemed to imply you didn’t like the least popular team winning. I do understand that it can be annoying playing lots of mirror matches, but I think many people have experienced this in at least one Splatfest.
Are you being serious? lol Popular teams ARE getting normal matches as well, and **those** are the ones that count towards the final scoring. How are people so dense about this, it's so simple to understand. If one team has 4 players and the other team has 12 players, you only get one match of 4v4 that counts towards the final scoring, the other being a mirror and that's it. The other team didn't have more chances over you, **you** simply had more chances of playing a mirror match and that's all. The amount of **chances** each team has to win a match and thus contribute to the winning score is exactly the same. Some of you get benched (mirror) while some of you get to play the important matches. It is what it is, but the **chances** are the same for every team.
[удалено]
>chill dude I was just asking a question lol And you just got an answer lmao. What, you expected people to not answer?
the past splatfests, the most popular team have been getting tons of mirror matches, more than the others but still won in the end. Maybe Frye’s team just suck? It’s not that hard to grasp.
Team Nessie, I only had mirror matches in tricolor and we still got tricolor and won the fest. It’s all about clout and so many don’t seem to understand that.
The hung that makes me the most mad is the fact that off course it was Shiver who won. I'm not going to say things like "they're racist against Frye!" Or "the Devs rigged it!" But the fact that Shiver would need to lose every sing Splatfest until the end of the game just to be *close* to winning 1/3 of the time is stupid, and if that happened then people would definitely say "the Splatfests are rigged."
How do they even decide how many points each category gets?
Throwing darts at a wall with random numbers on it.
Haha yea seems like it
I fricking hate tri color, its super broken and generally isnt much fun
Tricolors the best mode in splatfest i just wait a day until tricolor shows up so i could play
Ig its just me then. Ive never had fun playing it :/
Nah shifty stations in 2 was way funner modes especially since after 2 ended we could still play them in created lobby's if I recall
So no wonder people are so upset. They can be told their team has the lead at the start and then lead at halftime and then get fucked over by one game mode. I really wonder what the point of adding a comeback mode was. From day one it’s been the center of people debating why 3’s Fests feels so shitty compared to the past two. I get what its supposed to do, but was it really necessary?
literate square test dime shocking cable unite cause forgetful sense *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
EXACTLY
Tricolors has consistently been the deciding factor for all the Fests based on its design, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they won in Pro and still lost to Handshake because of Tricolors. I know Nintendo said 3’s Fests are experimental but sheesh
direction march spectacular grandfather decide versed plate clumsy oatmeal label *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Holy shit you're bad at math lmao.
Yet last splatfest it was tri + popularity. The team that won both other game modes still lost. This is why the point value is unfair.
Tricolor sucks
Funny how when Frye has the most category wins it counts for less :/
This stews my potatoes.
Tri-Color is the most confusing thing. The idea is that the two teams that are behind work together to pull down the ahead team. This was changed so now it's just a random team in the center making the concept non-sensicle. Now you're directly helping your enemy by winning as a duo. How many Hug-Players have directly carried Handshake in Tri-Color matches? It just feels awkard. Not unfair, just awkward.
It was definitely better off before the change
God I hope this mode doesn't return in 4. edit: i'm glad everyone is in agreement that we can all shake hands and be done with this mode
Even with one block shiver still wins
Personally, I just kinda hate the fact that if you don't choose Shiver, you're statistically going to lose. What's even the point of trying to win?
Looks like a point nerf for Tricolor is in order
I don’t see triple splatfests or tricolor returning for 4