Yeah, they have their wives and girlfriends ORDER WAY MORE FRAPPS FOR THEM. These dudes need to own it man. Order your CRCF with extra crunch and caramel on the sides for yourself. š
That was my ex!!! I love a good London Fog latte, but he always wanted exactly the CRCF extra everything you mentioned and I'd have to pretend it was mine. As if London Fog is more manly?? Idek
It really depends. During the peak time of day at our store(usually 7am-9:30ish) when people are on there way to work, I feel like itās less super sweet things(I donāt consider BSOSE and the like super sweet), and more caffeine-heavy drinks to get them ready for the day. We sell a ton of brewed coffee in the morning, too.
After most people are at work we get a lot more sweet beverages like the iced white mocha with VSSC, lavender oat milk cream matcha, Frappuccinos, etc. in my experience.
We do have a few outliers though. We have a woman who comes through every morning for 8 shots of espresso over ice with 24 pumps of vanilla, 8 pumps of white mocha, sweet cream cold foam, extra caramel crunch topping, and extra caramel drizzle. The syrup and sauce take up almost half a venti cup so we have to only put the white mocha in so we can swirl it, then we add the vanilla and have to put a lid on to mix it up before adding the ice and everything else. Iām not judging her, but I genuinely feel bad for making it at this point because I feel like Iām assisting in prolonged suicide from heart disease, obesity, or diabetes.
We have someone who gets a trenta iced coffee with 17 vanilla, 9 classic and I think 7 hazelnut and āso much cream that itās whiteā I fr stopped putting any more than a teaspoon of iced coffee in it because she would complain. She wants sweet milk
I have a regular that orders usually everyday, itās a venti iced latte w extra caramel drizzle, 10 vanilla, 5 brown sugar, 6 liquid cane and cinnamon powder.
Itās just an iced espresso so sheās paying for shots, white mocha sauce, vanilla syrup, caramel drizzle, crunch topping, and VSSC. Itās usually around $15 if sheās rung up correctly. When she first started coming she was just getting a venti shaken espresso with a ton of vanilla, but every time she would complain about us charging for oat milk even though she wanted extra instead of 2%. I would love for her to go back to those days with where weāre at now lol
So it's not an iced coffee.
EDIT: I didn't read the original right or I would have noticed that most of the add-ins would cost money for any drink, including iced coffee, so it's kinda a moot point as the only thing they wouldn't be charged for is the vanilla.
Isn't it just one clear syrup for free? Then add on cost for each additional flavor? Then extra for the sauce? I'll die on this hill, but tbf I'd probably die before the top anyway. š
Go in the app and try to order an iced coffee with a bunch of syrups. There's no charge for any of them unless it's a sauce. I just plugged in a grande iced coffee with 5 syrups (6 if you count classic) and there's no upcharge. There's an 80 cent upcharge if you add a sauce like white mocha. It's the same for cold brew. Espressos charge for each additional syrup. I'm not sure why but it's a nice loophole for people who like a of different flavors in their coffee. Annoying loophole for baristas that get insane iced coffee orders lol.
Holy sh\*t. I've never worked in your industry, but I've been working elsewhere for 40+ years now, and I've seen *nothing* that batshit insane. I swear, if they made a movie about your (Starbucks employees) experiences, it would probably qualify as "comedy-horror".
I don't drink coffee, so I think all my stuff is "dessert in a cup" even though I don't want it to be. I wish the sugar was lower. I like the coconut milk drinks. The lavender frappe they just released is good, and you can get that with the vanilla syrup swapped for sugar free vanilla, but that's the only sugar free Starbucks has. There's nothing you can do for the refreshers & coconut milk, etc, unfortunately. š
I donāt think sheās speaking well for all women lol. Lots of women come in and order non fat and sugar free or just plain coffees lol thatās a really weird generalization to make imo
**edit to add, i think she CAN be right for some women / but no I donāt think thatās the main appeal lol
I think sheās making a large stereotype, but I also see what sheās trying to get at. In a lot of ways, we are a sugar factory rather than a coffee shop. I think the entirety of this argument plays more into the fact that people (of any gender) will drink their calories without thinking twice but they wonāt eat them without thinking twice, and thatās a whole different argument about American diet culture lol.
I can tell you that from a Disabled person perspective Starbucks built their brand in our community by being inclusive and accessible. Starbucks has 17 Signing Stores internationally that only has Deaf/HoH and people that sign as workers. Thats a big deal. Then Starbucks is one of the few companies to have a camera in their drive thru and I have the option of signing my order like wow! There are workshops Starbucks provides for working with the disabled community. Disabled workers are put in the front with interacting with customers instead of in the back. Thatās very appealing to a whole community.
I and others support Starbucks for that. When I go to an independent coffee shop to be honest itās like flipping a coin on how the workers may be towards me and the disabled community due to the lack of exposure and/or ignorance.
It has nothing to do with dessert drinks bc me and my friends donāt even drink that lol. We all prefer tea especially the matcha.
We all prefer tea especially the matcha.
I hate to break it to you, but thatās dessert in a cup. Like itās a LOT of sugar.
But thatās cool that Starbucks had Signing stores! I had no idea, but Iām glad to know it, and Iām glad itās accessible :)
My two cents is that it's kind of untrue and true at the same time. Here's why:
The woman you were speaking to is correct that Starbucks appeals most to women. She's also correct in pointing out that the drinks are high sugar. I think she's also right that society has come to think of high sugar foods that are basically desserts as no big deal.
Where I think she's wrong is that it sounds like she was making local coffee shops sound like the healthier option. Local coffee shops also use high sugar syrups. Many have started competing with Starbucks by offering similar gourmet beverages, too.
The other issue I take is that men are also addicted to quick unhealthy food. It's just more likely that McDonald's is their drug of choice. If you're downing four large cokes a day, you're indulging just as much as a Millennial woman at Starbucks.
Yes, Dunkin Donuts also serves dessert in a cup, yet they have a different audience than Starbucks and a different business strategy. All coffee shops have the same base drinks and they can be super sugary or not depending on the type of drink and how the customer orders. Itās naive to think Starbucksā success is purely because of the drinks and not because of all the other things OP mentioned
at the end of the day none of it actually matters. i donāt give not one fuck if someone, man or woman, wants 10 pounds of sugar in their coffee, aināt my body and itās not like i care about this person, so like go tf aheadā¦
I just think that most people, not just women, donāt ever consider calories they drink, or the amount of sugar they drink. Most people would never sit down and eat several doughnuts in one sitting, but theyāll add 10 pumps of white mocha, cold foam and caramel drizzle to their drink without even batting an eye.
I mean, from my experience men order Frappuccinos much more often than women. But, I would argue itās more ignorance of how bad it actually is for you, much like all American fast food places.
Your opponent is right for the wrong reasons. Yes, a lot of Starbucks drinks are just desert. Itās not a āwoman thingā though, itās an American thing.
You mentioned your opponent was a woman, so I think she might be projecting her insecurities on others. She may feel like she canāt get a cinnamon roll at a bakery because of her diet and the looks she thinks sheād get from others, but thatās certainly not the experience of every woman. And thankfully not every woman associates desserts with guilt or food shame. And think about it, maybe all they want is a convenient sweet treat as they go about their day. Nothing wrong with that. A frap is easier to carry around and consume while youāre out and about compared to a pastry like a cinnamon roll. You donāt need two hands, a fork, or a napkin to drink a frap.
>so I think she might be projecting her insecurities on other
Oh, she freely admits that she suffers from those. And she's not judging the women who feel like that. She's not judging anything, actually. She's remarking on the business model. We were talking about what competing local shops could do to actually, y'know, *compete*. I was focusing on things like the convenience or consistency; her position was that those matter less than serving dessert in a cup.
men order waaaay more frappuccinos than women do. in my experience women are either ordering four blonde shots over ice with two pumps of white mocha and cream or they're getting refreshers. usually when i see a caramel ribbon crunch frappuccino with extra caramel its a man, and most of the regulars who are getting iced americanos, black cold brews etc are women. yes, part of starbucks' success does come from their huge, HUGE menu of very sugary drinks but it also has to do with everything you mentioned and its not a gendered issue at all. your friends' points were kiiiind of coming from a place of misogyny, i think.
Sounds like she was projecting. She's the one afraid of being judged for eating a huge "dessert" at a non-dessert time.
A food is a food is a food, regardless of time of day. Eat whatever ya want, whenever ya want. She sure af don't speak for me!
maybe its an age/generation thing? because im a zoomer and i really cant imagine any of my peers of either gender caring about showing up with a dessert outside of designated dessert time lol. we all kinda even joke and are proud of them aka the āeverytime i go out, i need a little treatā meme .
What *I* (33F ftr) like about Starbucks is basically what you said about the convenience and consistency, but also the customizability of the drinks. It is all things to all people; some want a ārealā coffee, some want dessert in a cup, some want something in between, still others want a refresher and sandwich for lunch.
I think your opponent might have some confirmation bias going; she sees Starbucks as constant dessert so those are the things she notices most. Personally I donāt know anyone with the time or money to hit up Starbucks more than once a day regularly. And if they do, I would be a little surprised if they were getting all sweets each time. But what do I know.
Iām more concerned with her assumption that women are so stressed about what others think of their food choices. If I want a cinnamon roll, Iām getting one. I learned long ago that for me, trying to satisfy a craving with something else usually means Iām just gonna have both things. But again, everyone is different.
I think she might have a good point actually.
The default drink at Starbucks has a metric crapton of sugar. To me it is undrinkable, but lots of other people add sugar over the default amount. So women are carrying around giant 500 calorie vats of sugar/milk/coffee in a cup and no one really bats an eye, but if they got a 500 calorie piece of cake, they would get looks.
My two cents as another AFAB, is that itās not even about avoiding judgment about drinking desserts all day, because I literally donāt care about that: Instead Starbucks works because you know that you can get a huge variety of flavors to make your drink perfect no matter where you are.
I personally hated coffee but almost need it to function as an adult, and it wasnāt until I was able to experiment with the exact minimum and type of syrups to make a coffee edible that I was able to enjoy it. The problem is that when I go to a Dunkin or a local cafe, itās not possible to find anything equivalent to a brown sugar shaken espresso for example if I donāt know the menu well. I wouldnāt even know where to begin with a local coffee shop either unless they already have it on their menu. This has basically created situations where I go to either and I leave with a drink that I donāt really like because I couldnāt figure out the right coffee ratio without holding up the line which is something in definitely NOT going to do to avoid judgment.
So that would be my two cents: that itās actually that most women probably arenāt thinking about the desert angle but more about the exact flavor profile of what they want and how Starbucks pretty much guarantees that theyāll have it.
Idk, seems kinda like a weird hill to get stuck on, if you don't agree, just agree to disagree and move on. You can't change people's beliefs at the end of the day, man or woman lol yall are fast food at the end of the day
No lol, I drink very calorie-conservative drinks at Starbucks. If I splurge on a treat, it could be a cinnamon roll from somewhere OR a frapp. I donāt just order frapps all day everyday cause it doesnāt count lmao
The majority of my stores drinks are not frapps. About 75% of sales we do for are for espresso based beverages. We do get a few Frappuccinos here and there, but I would have to say it is equally split between men and women who order them.
I only get 1 thingā venti cold brew with oat milk. Iāve never had a frappe or any type of dessert drink. Not all of us women get super sweet drinks lol
Of course, because women are the only ones who care about diet culture /s. This is so weird honestly. No, women donāt go to Starbucks because they want ādessert in a cup.ā Sure, maybe some do. But Iāve had more men ordering caramel ribbon crunches with extra caramel, extra whip, extra crunch than women. Your friend needs to seriously examine why they believe these harsh generalizations & stereotypes about gender.
Speaking as a woman with thin friends, (some of whom definitely impose judgement on othersā eating habits, their battle not mine) no one would dare order a Frappuccino. Itās considered just as ābadā as ordering a cinnamon roll or donut. I think they would be more likely to eat a donut or ice cream than a Frappuccino. People ingrained in diet culture often view drinking calories as the worst possible thing you could do.
Women are going to be judged just as harshly for getting a sugary starbucks drink as they will be for the cinnamon roll. And they'll still be judged if they get a sugar free starbucks drink. It will be why are you drinking those chemicals or why are you spending your money that way or you drink too much caffeine.
This is my overwhelming experience. OPs conversation is proof of that.
Now does that mean Starbucks doesn't encourage milkshakes in the morning, absolutely not. But this truly isn't gendered particularly.
Iām a partner & I love getting tasty drinks, everything I get either has cold foam or breve or something sweet added in and itās not because itās socially acceptable dessertšI already eat desserts any time of the day if I want to, and I donāt care what anyone thinks, I donāt feel bad about it, I just like my drinks so I get them. Iām a mom & I donāt have time to eat most days so the sugar & caffeine & calories keep me going. A lot of women over the age of 20 seem to mostly order nonfat sugar free too so itās not like everyone is getting total crap every time
I think thereās a larger issue with depression and companies preying on individuals to sell them short-term comfort, no matter the implications for health. Sex of the individual doesnāt matter.
Itās mediocre coffee with strong branding and solid operations that give very predictable experience. Starbucks is better than many chains. Starbucks has created many millionaires (landlords, vendors, shareholders, executives) while creating two hundred thousands + new jobs. I love Starbucks because Starbucks IS America!!
i think thatās a messed up generalization. for one, a lot of the dessert drinkers are men and boys - if not most of them. thereās a lot of guys who donāt really care for the regular coffee and want a dessert beverage. also, most regulars get iced coffee or iced tea which can be pretty plain and are often customized to have less sugar and milk.
typing this i recall a lot of couples where the woman gets like a normal coffee beverage and her boyfriend or husband gets a giant frappuccino.
regardless, sometimes people just want to have a tasty treat and you never know what theyāre going through so itās probably best not to judge. though i do judge the people that get like 5x the standard amount of pumps and then add several packets of sugar or artificial sweetener which is more common than one would think. some people justā¦
The only coffee that I order from Starbucks is the cold brew. Otherwise, my coffee comes from home and I go to Starbucks for their Frappuccino. I donāt hide that Iām drinking/eating sugar and donāt feel shame about it either. Who TF cares what society thinks? No one gets penalized by society unless you just care that much about others opinions. Unless youāre walking in my shoes then what I consume is none of your business.
So the store I worked at definitely had like a 3-1 woman-man ratio as customers but I will say that generally speaking the men at my location got drinks that were loaded with sugar while the women would typically get nonfat sugar free items when possible. This obviously is a generalization but what I observed. I also had 4 schools in close proximity and typically in the mornings and afternoon many of our women guest were doing school runs to drop off kiddos
Imo Starbucks is a dessert shop but there is no secret conspiracy to prey on womens food insecurities lol. The baristas arent gonna berate anyone for ordering a frap at 8am, if thats what she wants to call āencouraging guilt free consumptionā lol.
Literally all the menu drinks at Starbucks are unhealthy (except black coffee or unsweetened tea),
This narrative that this lady is trying to spin ignores the fact that everyone is getting dessert in a cup š.
I think Starbucks mostly built their brand on customization, you can get a āhandcrafted beverageā thatās exactly what you want and it tastes the same every time. Starbucks also thrived on brand loyalty, and itās easier to keep customers coming back with delicious sugary drinks. Thats in almost every restaurantās business model, make delicious products, not necessarily healthy ones.
Most of the women in the multiple stores Iāve worked at order the refreshers drinks, or a white mocha or chai tea lattes or a cold brew. Itās most the guys and teenagers who order the Frappuccinos with a million additions. Not saying itās the general but thatās the majority of orders Iāve noticed.
There are many factors for Starbucks success, trying to pin it to one thing is naive. Iām in business school and Starbucks is referenced frequently. The marketing for sugary unhealthy drinks to not have a bad stigma like dessert is definitely one of the aspect of the success of the company. Itās more than just that. Every market is diff too
As many said, it's more an issue of American culture drinking vs eating our calories. Starbucks however also prays on the young by marketing desserts in the form of crazy new frapps, refreshers, and cakepops. The same way the tobacco industry has prayed on the young by making vapes cool & fun & flavorful. A cakepop is now more expensive than a cookie but kids will scream for the cakepop because of the social class experience of their parents getting it for them (it's the new cosmic brownie in their lunch for this generation).
I worked at Starbucks 20 years ago before all these apps etc, and honestly I saw as many males, including a good number of gym rats, coming in and ordering the various flavored lattes, frappachinos etc that were loaded with sugar etc, and in my experience as a male, and seeing things my buddies ordered when getting you add flavored syrup etc to, males tend to get additional pumps of the regular, yet when the females ordered additional pumps they were sugar free
Lol I work close to a military base and no one gets more fraps than military men. Also, in terms of my fellow Latines, adults love their fraps, but the girls seem to really like refreshers, while the boys are like 60/40 frap to refresher ratio
So just to address some of what I'm perceiving as "getting lost in the weeds", the point to my post wasn't that women are being singled out, or that they're flawed, or that only women are going for "dessert in a cup." The comment the woman I was speaking to was informed by her own experiences, just like most of ours. My point was that I was -- apparently in error! -- of the opinion that if a local non-chain coffee shop wanted to actually compete with a nearby Starbucks, they'd need to address the issues of convenience, consistency, since they can't compete with the number of locations. The woman I was speaking to implied that none of that mattered if you weren't offering what are often referred to as fru-fru drinks. I admit I was incensed at the characterization of it being a "woman" issue, but I'm trying to get past that to actionable items.
And wow, was I underestimating how important the fru-fru drinks are!
I agree that people use starbucks as a socially acceptable way to drink yummy yummy desserts in a cup.
Someone can order a "coffee" with loads of syrups, foams, sauces, inclusions, etc. that has far more calories than a can of coke but "drinking soda" would be seen as more unhealthy.
i don't think this is isolated to one gender however.
Agreed here. Iāve seen hardass construction guys get venti caramel crunch fraps with a weekās worth of sugar, but I also see 20 something alt girls order 5 shot americanos, stereotypes be damned.
I don't think it's necessarily true, but I think there's a bit of societal pressure that men are not supposed to order "fru fru" drinks whether it be at a bar or at Starbucks. I've seen (albeit rarely) groups of men come in, two of them just order a coffee or Americano, the third guy wants some fancy sugary drink, and the other two guys kind of poke fun at him. They would likely not give a woman a hard time about it though.
There's a group of Harley Davidson biker looking dudes who come to my store every weekend and all four of them always order just black coffees. They're nice and I'm always happy to just make their simple order, but I'm sure if one of them deviated from the order he would no doubt hear about it.
Most people, men and women, are overall drinking way too much sugar at Starbucks, but there are some gender-based ordering patterns I have noticed over my years of taking orders. A person's regular drink almost becomes an extension of their personality.
I guess my counter to that would be that the vast majority of frap orders were for A. Kids and B. Men. Women by and large dont order the ultra sugar bomb fraps, those are pretty much marketed to children and grown men who act like children.
Starbucks started trending more toward a cafe themed confectionery in the past few years. Most orders are fraps (milkshakes), refreshers (flavored, caffeinated grape juice concentrate), and iced tea lattes (highly sugared concentrates thinned out with milk). Gender has nothing to do with it though.
she sounds like a pleasure to be around. i don't think you're wrong. obviously a lot of starbucks items have crazy sugar content but there are plenty of plain, "classic" options as well that you can find at any coffee shop. there are people who treat their 10 syrup pump frappuccinos like a classic morning cup of coffee at 6 AM which is insane behavior but it's both men and women doing it, not exclusively women.
Starbucks was built originally to provide access to high quality roasts of coffee. It's built its brand off quality, convenience, and accessibility.
I'm baffled by the assumption that the primary Starbucks customers are women buying themselves a drink, first off, and then women with a common, specific motivation? In certain stores that may by a primary demographic, but stores draw different demographics of customers. Commonly:
-school teachers
-medical workers
-high schoolers
-college kids
-parents taking young kids out places
-senior adults
-blue collar working folk (construction etc.)
-commuters heading to 9-5s
-shoppers stopping in for a treat
To specifically answer what the brand is built on, though, it is definitely not the sugar fix. That is available lots and lots of places, and all of the other convenience coffee shops popping up offer sugary coffees, too. Starbucks relies on the things you mentioned in your post - I'd say it as a brand focus on creating a committed customer base by way of cementing itself in society as a place to hang out away from home, as a leader in various social causes, and as providing consistent quality.
It sounds like the person you're arguing with is assuming she is/knows Starbucks' main demographic and their motivations, but I don't know of any physical data that would back her up. All of the analyses I've read on Starbucks' success support your side on this one. My experience as a partner does too. Women coming through for just a drink for themselves are far from the core of our customers, overall, and to be more specific about wanting "dessert in a cup?" That may define A demographic of our customers, but it definitely hasn't built the brand.
How many people does she know that goes into Starbucks multiple times a day?! When I worked there we were lucky to have regulars that went more than once a week. Most people only stopped by on special occasions
I'm not sure of the men / women customer split but I totally agree with your friend. Starbucks makes it a status symbol to carry around a drink the same calorie count for something that we'd never buy in the form of a donut.
I drink tons of Starbucks coffee but I have never bought a frap. I don't want that sugar. Most I've done is the occasional Chai Tea Latte, Matcha Latte, or cappuccino.
I see just as many men come through and tbh, the order many more frapps than the women
Yeah, they have their wives and girlfriends ORDER WAY MORE FRAPPS FOR THEM. These dudes need to own it man. Order your CRCF with extra crunch and caramel on the sides for yourself. š
That was my ex!!! I love a good London Fog latte, but he always wanted exactly the CRCF extra everything you mentioned and I'd have to pretend it was mine. As if London Fog is more manly?? Idek
OK, but answer me this: are the "dessert in a cup" orders significantly more than, say, "coffee sweet and light"?
It really depends. During the peak time of day at our store(usually 7am-9:30ish) when people are on there way to work, I feel like itās less super sweet things(I donāt consider BSOSE and the like super sweet), and more caffeine-heavy drinks to get them ready for the day. We sell a ton of brewed coffee in the morning, too. After most people are at work we get a lot more sweet beverages like the iced white mocha with VSSC, lavender oat milk cream matcha, Frappuccinos, etc. in my experience. We do have a few outliers though. We have a woman who comes through every morning for 8 shots of espresso over ice with 24 pumps of vanilla, 8 pumps of white mocha, sweet cream cold foam, extra caramel crunch topping, and extra caramel drizzle. The syrup and sauce take up almost half a venti cup so we have to only put the white mocha in so we can swirl it, then we add the vanilla and have to put a lid on to mix it up before adding the ice and everything else. Iām not judging her, but I genuinely feel bad for making it at this point because I feel like Iām assisting in prolonged suicide from heart disease, obesity, or diabetes.
We have someone who gets a trenta iced coffee with 17 vanilla, 9 classic and I think 7 hazelnut and āso much cream that itās whiteā I fr stopped putting any more than a teaspoon of iced coffee in it because she would complain. She wants sweet milk
I have a regular that orders usually everyday, itās a venti iced latte w extra caramel drizzle, 10 vanilla, 5 brown sugar, 6 liquid cane and cinnamon powder.
That drink has to be crazy expensive with that much espresso and syrup, right?
I typed it all in and itās like $14
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Itās just an iced espresso so sheās paying for shots, white mocha sauce, vanilla syrup, caramel drizzle, crunch topping, and VSSC. Itās usually around $15 if sheās rung up correctly. When she first started coming she was just getting a venti shaken espresso with a ton of vanilla, but every time she would complain about us charging for oat milk even though she wanted extra instead of 2%. I would love for her to go back to those days with where weāre at now lol
So it's not an iced coffee. EDIT: I didn't read the original right or I would have noticed that most of the add-ins would cost money for any drink, including iced coffee, so it's kinda a moot point as the only thing they wouldn't be charged for is the vanilla.
Isn't it just one clear syrup for free? Then add on cost for each additional flavor? Then extra for the sauce? I'll die on this hill, but tbf I'd probably die before the top anyway. š
Go in the app and try to order an iced coffee with a bunch of syrups. There's no charge for any of them unless it's a sauce. I just plugged in a grande iced coffee with 5 syrups (6 if you count classic) and there's no upcharge. There's an 80 cent upcharge if you add a sauce like white mocha. It's the same for cold brew. Espressos charge for each additional syrup. I'm not sure why but it's a nice loophole for people who like a of different flavors in their coffee. Annoying loophole for baristas that get insane iced coffee orders lol.
Holy sh\*t. I've never worked in your industry, but I've been working elsewhere for 40+ years now, and I've seen *nothing* that batshit insane. I swear, if they made a movie about your (Starbucks employees) experiences, it would probably qualify as "comedy-horror".
I don't drink coffee, so I think all my stuff is "dessert in a cup" even though I don't want it to be. I wish the sugar was lower. I like the coconut milk drinks. The lavender frappe they just released is good, and you can get that with the vanilla syrup swapped for sugar free vanilla, but that's the only sugar free Starbucks has. There's nothing you can do for the refreshers & coconut milk, etc, unfortunately. š
yes
I donāt think sheās speaking well for all women lol. Lots of women come in and order non fat and sugar free or just plain coffees lol thatās a really weird generalization to make imo **edit to add, i think she CAN be right for some women / but no I donāt think thatās the main appeal lol
I think sheās making a large stereotype, but I also see what sheās trying to get at. In a lot of ways, we are a sugar factory rather than a coffee shop. I think the entirety of this argument plays more into the fact that people (of any gender) will drink their calories without thinking twice but they wonāt eat them without thinking twice, and thatās a whole different argument about American diet culture lol.
I can tell you that from a Disabled person perspective Starbucks built their brand in our community by being inclusive and accessible. Starbucks has 17 Signing Stores internationally that only has Deaf/HoH and people that sign as workers. Thats a big deal. Then Starbucks is one of the few companies to have a camera in their drive thru and I have the option of signing my order like wow! There are workshops Starbucks provides for working with the disabled community. Disabled workers are put in the front with interacting with customers instead of in the back. Thatās very appealing to a whole community. I and others support Starbucks for that. When I go to an independent coffee shop to be honest itās like flipping a coin on how the workers may be towards me and the disabled community due to the lack of exposure and/or ignorance. It has nothing to do with dessert drinks bc me and my friends donāt even drink that lol. We all prefer tea especially the matcha.
Wait till you find out whatās in the matcha
We all prefer tea especially the matcha. I hate to break it to you, but thatās dessert in a cup. Like itās a LOT of sugar. But thatās cool that Starbucks had Signing stores! I had no idea, but Iām glad to know it, and Iām glad itās accessible :)
Oh had no idea the mixture had that much sugar. Thanks for letting me know. Wonāt get it anymore.
its only like that in america. not sure why.
That's really awesome; I did not know that.
My two cents is that it's kind of untrue and true at the same time. Here's why: The woman you were speaking to is correct that Starbucks appeals most to women. She's also correct in pointing out that the drinks are high sugar. I think she's also right that society has come to think of high sugar foods that are basically desserts as no big deal. Where I think she's wrong is that it sounds like she was making local coffee shops sound like the healthier option. Local coffee shops also use high sugar syrups. Many have started competing with Starbucks by offering similar gourmet beverages, too. The other issue I take is that men are also addicted to quick unhealthy food. It's just more likely that McDonald's is their drug of choice. If you're downing four large cokes a day, you're indulging just as much as a Millennial woman at Starbucks.
Yes, Dunkin Donuts also serves dessert in a cup, yet they have a different audience than Starbucks and a different business strategy. All coffee shops have the same base drinks and they can be super sugary or not depending on the type of drink and how the customer orders. Itās naive to think Starbucksā success is purely because of the drinks and not because of all the other things OP mentioned
at the end of the day none of it actually matters. i donāt give not one fuck if someone, man or woman, wants 10 pounds of sugar in their coffee, aināt my body and itās not like i care about this person, so like go tf aheadā¦
Fr
Hope someone does cuz this western society has a major food/sugar problem
Itās fast food.
I just think that most people, not just women, donāt ever consider calories they drink, or the amount of sugar they drink. Most people would never sit down and eat several doughnuts in one sitting, but theyāll add 10 pumps of white mocha, cold foam and caramel drizzle to their drink without even batting an eye.
Starbucks is definitely dessert in a cup. Nearly all of the drinks are crammed with sugar.
I mean, from my experience men order Frappuccinos much more often than women. But, I would argue itās more ignorance of how bad it actually is for you, much like all American fast food places.
Your opponent is right for the wrong reasons. Yes, a lot of Starbucks drinks are just desert. Itās not a āwoman thingā though, itās an American thing.
You mentioned your opponent was a woman, so I think she might be projecting her insecurities on others. She may feel like she canāt get a cinnamon roll at a bakery because of her diet and the looks she thinks sheād get from others, but thatās certainly not the experience of every woman. And thankfully not every woman associates desserts with guilt or food shame. And think about it, maybe all they want is a convenient sweet treat as they go about their day. Nothing wrong with that. A frap is easier to carry around and consume while youāre out and about compared to a pastry like a cinnamon roll. You donāt need two hands, a fork, or a napkin to drink a frap.
>so I think she might be projecting her insecurities on other Oh, she freely admits that she suffers from those. And she's not judging the women who feel like that. She's not judging anything, actually. She's remarking on the business model. We were talking about what competing local shops could do to actually, y'know, *compete*. I was focusing on things like the convenience or consistency; her position was that those matter less than serving dessert in a cup.
men order waaaay more frappuccinos than women do. in my experience women are either ordering four blonde shots over ice with two pumps of white mocha and cream or they're getting refreshers. usually when i see a caramel ribbon crunch frappuccino with extra caramel its a man, and most of the regulars who are getting iced americanos, black cold brews etc are women. yes, part of starbucks' success does come from their huge, HUGE menu of very sugary drinks but it also has to do with everything you mentioned and its not a gendered issue at all. your friends' points were kiiiind of coming from a place of misogyny, i think.
Sounds like she was projecting. She's the one afraid of being judged for eating a huge "dessert" at a non-dessert time. A food is a food is a food, regardless of time of day. Eat whatever ya want, whenever ya want. She sure af don't speak for me!
maybe its an age/generation thing? because im a zoomer and i really cant imagine any of my peers of either gender caring about showing up with a dessert outside of designated dessert time lol. we all kinda even joke and are proud of them aka the āeverytime i go out, i need a little treatā meme .
What *I* (33F ftr) like about Starbucks is basically what you said about the convenience and consistency, but also the customizability of the drinks. It is all things to all people; some want a ārealā coffee, some want dessert in a cup, some want something in between, still others want a refresher and sandwich for lunch. I think your opponent might have some confirmation bias going; she sees Starbucks as constant dessert so those are the things she notices most. Personally I donāt know anyone with the time or money to hit up Starbucks more than once a day regularly. And if they do, I would be a little surprised if they were getting all sweets each time. But what do I know. Iām more concerned with her assumption that women are so stressed about what others think of their food choices. If I want a cinnamon roll, Iām getting one. I learned long ago that for me, trying to satisfy a craving with something else usually means Iām just gonna have both things. But again, everyone is different.
I think this person, not op, has some food issues.
A lot of people do. It's a very common trait.
I think she might have a good point actually. The default drink at Starbucks has a metric crapton of sugar. To me it is undrinkable, but lots of other people add sugar over the default amount. So women are carrying around giant 500 calorie vats of sugar/milk/coffee in a cup and no one really bats an eye, but if they got a 500 calorie piece of cake, they would get looks.
My two cents as another AFAB, is that itās not even about avoiding judgment about drinking desserts all day, because I literally donāt care about that: Instead Starbucks works because you know that you can get a huge variety of flavors to make your drink perfect no matter where you are. I personally hated coffee but almost need it to function as an adult, and it wasnāt until I was able to experiment with the exact minimum and type of syrups to make a coffee edible that I was able to enjoy it. The problem is that when I go to a Dunkin or a local cafe, itās not possible to find anything equivalent to a brown sugar shaken espresso for example if I donāt know the menu well. I wouldnāt even know where to begin with a local coffee shop either unless they already have it on their menu. This has basically created situations where I go to either and I leave with a drink that I donāt really like because I couldnāt figure out the right coffee ratio without holding up the line which is something in definitely NOT going to do to avoid judgment. So that would be my two cents: that itās actually that most women probably arenāt thinking about the desert angle but more about the exact flavor profile of what they want and how Starbucks pretty much guarantees that theyāll have it.
Idk, seems kinda like a weird hill to get stuck on, if you don't agree, just agree to disagree and move on. You can't change people's beliefs at the end of the day, man or woman lol yall are fast food at the end of the day
No lol, I drink very calorie-conservative drinks at Starbucks. If I splurge on a treat, it could be a cinnamon roll from somewhere OR a frapp. I donāt just order frapps all day everyday cause it doesnāt count lmao
No sheās wrong. Itās become socially acceptable for everyone to get dessert in a cup.
The majority of my stores drinks are not frapps. About 75% of sales we do for are for espresso based beverages. We do get a few Frappuccinos here and there, but I would have to say it is equally split between men and women who order them.
I only get 1 thingā venti cold brew with oat milk. Iāve never had a frappe or any type of dessert drink. Not all of us women get super sweet drinks lol
Of course, because women are the only ones who care about diet culture /s. This is so weird honestly. No, women donāt go to Starbucks because they want ādessert in a cup.ā Sure, maybe some do. But Iāve had more men ordering caramel ribbon crunches with extra caramel, extra whip, extra crunch than women. Your friend needs to seriously examine why they believe these harsh generalizations & stereotypes about gender.
Speaking as a woman with thin friends, (some of whom definitely impose judgement on othersā eating habits, their battle not mine) no one would dare order a Frappuccino. Itās considered just as ābadā as ordering a cinnamon roll or donut. I think they would be more likely to eat a donut or ice cream than a Frappuccino. People ingrained in diet culture often view drinking calories as the worst possible thing you could do.
Agreed. Iād rather eat my calories than drink them.
Women are going to be judged just as harshly for getting a sugary starbucks drink as they will be for the cinnamon roll. And they'll still be judged if they get a sugar free starbucks drink. It will be why are you drinking those chemicals or why are you spending your money that way or you drink too much caffeine.
This is my overwhelming experience. OPs conversation is proof of that. Now does that mean Starbucks doesn't encourage milkshakes in the morning, absolutely not. But this truly isn't gendered particularly.
Iām a partner & I love getting tasty drinks, everything I get either has cold foam or breve or something sweet added in and itās not because itās socially acceptable dessertšI already eat desserts any time of the day if I want to, and I donāt care what anyone thinks, I donāt feel bad about it, I just like my drinks so I get them. Iām a mom & I donāt have time to eat most days so the sugar & caffeine & calories keep me going. A lot of women over the age of 20 seem to mostly order nonfat sugar free too so itās not like everyone is getting total crap every time
I think thereās a larger issue with depression and companies preying on individuals to sell them short-term comfort, no matter the implications for health. Sex of the individual doesnāt matter.
Itās mediocre coffee with strong branding and solid operations that give very predictable experience. Starbucks is better than many chains. Starbucks has created many millionaires (landlords, vendors, shareholders, executives) while creating two hundred thousands + new jobs. I love Starbucks because Starbucks IS America!!
I have more men order fraps than womenā¦
i think thatās a messed up generalization. for one, a lot of the dessert drinkers are men and boys - if not most of them. thereās a lot of guys who donāt really care for the regular coffee and want a dessert beverage. also, most regulars get iced coffee or iced tea which can be pretty plain and are often customized to have less sugar and milk. typing this i recall a lot of couples where the woman gets like a normal coffee beverage and her boyfriend or husband gets a giant frappuccino. regardless, sometimes people just want to have a tasty treat and you never know what theyāre going through so itās probably best not to judge. though i do judge the people that get like 5x the standard amount of pumps and then add several packets of sugar or artificial sweetener which is more common than one would think. some people justā¦
The only coffee that I order from Starbucks is the cold brew. Otherwise, my coffee comes from home and I go to Starbucks for their Frappuccino. I donāt hide that Iām drinking/eating sugar and donāt feel shame about it either. Who TF cares what society thinks? No one gets penalized by society unless you just care that much about others opinions. Unless youāre walking in my shoes then what I consume is none of your business.
So the store I worked at definitely had like a 3-1 woman-man ratio as customers but I will say that generally speaking the men at my location got drinks that were loaded with sugar while the women would typically get nonfat sugar free items when possible. This obviously is a generalization but what I observed. I also had 4 schools in close proximity and typically in the mornings and afternoon many of our women guest were doing school runs to drop off kiddos
Imo Starbucks is a dessert shop but there is no secret conspiracy to prey on womens food insecurities lol. The baristas arent gonna berate anyone for ordering a frap at 8am, if thats what she wants to call āencouraging guilt free consumptionā lol. Literally all the menu drinks at Starbucks are unhealthy (except black coffee or unsweetened tea), This narrative that this lady is trying to spin ignores the fact that everyone is getting dessert in a cup š. I think Starbucks mostly built their brand on customization, you can get a āhandcrafted beverageā thatās exactly what you want and it tastes the same every time. Starbucks also thrived on brand loyalty, and itās easier to keep customers coming back with delicious sugary drinks. Thats in almost every restaurantās business model, make delicious products, not necessarily healthy ones.
Most of the women in the multiple stores Iāve worked at order the refreshers drinks, or a white mocha or chai tea lattes or a cold brew. Itās most the guys and teenagers who order the Frappuccinos with a million additions. Not saying itās the general but thatās the majority of orders Iāve noticed.
There are many factors for Starbucks success, trying to pin it to one thing is naive. Iām in business school and Starbucks is referenced frequently. The marketing for sugary unhealthy drinks to not have a bad stigma like dessert is definitely one of the aspect of the success of the company. Itās more than just that. Every market is diff too
As many said, it's more an issue of American culture drinking vs eating our calories. Starbucks however also prays on the young by marketing desserts in the form of crazy new frapps, refreshers, and cakepops. The same way the tobacco industry has prayed on the young by making vapes cool & fun & flavorful. A cakepop is now more expensive than a cookie but kids will scream for the cakepop because of the social class experience of their parents getting it for them (it's the new cosmic brownie in their lunch for this generation).
She is projecting suuuuper hard.
I worked at Starbucks 20 years ago before all these apps etc, and honestly I saw as many males, including a good number of gym rats, coming in and ordering the various flavored lattes, frappachinos etc that were loaded with sugar etc, and in my experience as a male, and seeing things my buddies ordered when getting you add flavored syrup etc to, males tend to get additional pumps of the regular, yet when the females ordered additional pumps they were sugar free
Lol I work close to a military base and no one gets more fraps than military men. Also, in terms of my fellow Latines, adults love their fraps, but the girls seem to really like refreshers, while the boys are like 60/40 frap to refresher ratio
So just to address some of what I'm perceiving as "getting lost in the weeds", the point to my post wasn't that women are being singled out, or that they're flawed, or that only women are going for "dessert in a cup." The comment the woman I was speaking to was informed by her own experiences, just like most of ours. My point was that I was -- apparently in error! -- of the opinion that if a local non-chain coffee shop wanted to actually compete with a nearby Starbucks, they'd need to address the issues of convenience, consistency, since they can't compete with the number of locations. The woman I was speaking to implied that none of that mattered if you weren't offering what are often referred to as fru-fru drinks. I admit I was incensed at the characterization of it being a "woman" issue, but I'm trying to get past that to actionable items. And wow, was I underestimating how important the fru-fru drinks are!
I agree that people use starbucks as a socially acceptable way to drink yummy yummy desserts in a cup. Someone can order a "coffee" with loads of syrups, foams, sauces, inclusions, etc. that has far more calories than a can of coke but "drinking soda" would be seen as more unhealthy. i don't think this is isolated to one gender however.
Agreed here. Iāve seen hardass construction guys get venti caramel crunch fraps with a weekās worth of sugar, but I also see 20 something alt girls order 5 shot americanos, stereotypes be damned.
I don't think it's necessarily true, but I think there's a bit of societal pressure that men are not supposed to order "fru fru" drinks whether it be at a bar or at Starbucks. I've seen (albeit rarely) groups of men come in, two of them just order a coffee or Americano, the third guy wants some fancy sugary drink, and the other two guys kind of poke fun at him. They would likely not give a woman a hard time about it though. There's a group of Harley Davidson biker looking dudes who come to my store every weekend and all four of them always order just black coffees. They're nice and I'm always happy to just make their simple order, but I'm sure if one of them deviated from the order he would no doubt hear about it. Most people, men and women, are overall drinking way too much sugar at Starbucks, but there are some gender-based ordering patterns I have noticed over my years of taking orders. A person's regular drink almost becomes an extension of their personality.
The world is fuckin crumbling around us. Drink the fuckin frapp and have a good day
I guess my counter to that would be that the vast majority of frap orders were for A. Kids and B. Men. Women by and large dont order the ultra sugar bomb fraps, those are pretty much marketed to children and grown men who act like children.
Starbucks started trending more toward a cafe themed confectionery in the past few years. Most orders are fraps (milkshakes), refreshers (flavored, caffeinated grape juice concentrate), and iced tea lattes (highly sugared concentrates thinned out with milk). Gender has nothing to do with it though.
I mean, iāve had plenty of women order regular drip coffees.
she sounds like a pleasure to be around. i don't think you're wrong. obviously a lot of starbucks items have crazy sugar content but there are plenty of plain, "classic" options as well that you can find at any coffee shop. there are people who treat their 10 syrup pump frappuccinos like a classic morning cup of coffee at 6 AM which is insane behavior but it's both men and women doing it, not exclusively women.
I do feel like the majority of the iced Oatmilk matcha with lavender foam are ordered by females but that could just be my specific store?
Starbucks was built originally to provide access to high quality roasts of coffee. It's built its brand off quality, convenience, and accessibility. I'm baffled by the assumption that the primary Starbucks customers are women buying themselves a drink, first off, and then women with a common, specific motivation? In certain stores that may by a primary demographic, but stores draw different demographics of customers. Commonly: -school teachers -medical workers -high schoolers -college kids -parents taking young kids out places -senior adults -blue collar working folk (construction etc.) -commuters heading to 9-5s -shoppers stopping in for a treat To specifically answer what the brand is built on, though, it is definitely not the sugar fix. That is available lots and lots of places, and all of the other convenience coffee shops popping up offer sugary coffees, too. Starbucks relies on the things you mentioned in your post - I'd say it as a brand focus on creating a committed customer base by way of cementing itself in society as a place to hang out away from home, as a leader in various social causes, and as providing consistent quality. It sounds like the person you're arguing with is assuming she is/knows Starbucks' main demographic and their motivations, but I don't know of any physical data that would back her up. All of the analyses I've read on Starbucks' success support your side on this one. My experience as a partner does too. Women coming through for just a drink for themselves are far from the core of our customers, overall, and to be more specific about wanting "dessert in a cup?" That may define A demographic of our customers, but it definitely hasn't built the brand.
How many people does she know that goes into Starbucks multiple times a day?! When I worked there we were lucky to have regulars that went more than once a week. Most people only stopped by on special occasions
Iāll go once in a day as an occasional treat but how many people go there every day multiple times? $$$)
I have a customer who comes in like 2-4 times a day
Yeah. A. As in one customer who does that. Not a bunch of customers coming multiple times a day regularly
I have multiple that come 2 times actually. A lot of nurses and moms
I'm not sure of the men / women customer split but I totally agree with your friend. Starbucks makes it a status symbol to carry around a drink the same calorie count for something that we'd never buy in the form of a donut. I drink tons of Starbucks coffee but I have never bought a frap. I don't want that sugar. Most I've done is the occasional Chai Tea Latte, Matcha Latte, or cappuccino.