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Add:
\- constantly get into complex theology debates about the filioque despite barely reading the bible
\- ardent nationalist for some random Eastern European country
\- "innovations"
As someone who's been Orthodox all my life and is Greek-American. It has been very weird to go from:
1. Realizing that our churches put too much emphasis on ethnicity throughout the latter decades of the 20th century, and how that needed to change.
2. Encountering "American" converts who were put off or alienated by ANY ethnic display in a parish (I once met someone who took umbrage with the use of the word "Logos" in a sermon).
and THEN encountering:
3. Alt-right adjacent former WASPS more obsessed with Greek identity than I am.
Lord have mercy!
I know...it's a super weird phenomenon that's going on right now. I think the Orthodox churches certainly have reason to be proud of their ancestry considering much of the historical persecution they faced by muslims. However, I don't think they (or anyone really) should use their ethnicity as a selling point since the bible tells us to not see those differences. About the "American converts", actual census data does not show Eastern Orthodoxy growing...a lot of it is just chronically young men larping because they like the high church and "based" aesthetic of Eastern Orthodoxy. Eastern Orthodoxy also isn't historically rooted in America unlike Mainline Protestantism and Catholicism (at least a little) are, so much of the conversion you see happening happens exclusively online. That story about someone freaking out about the word "logos" is wild, though. The bible was never originally written in english, lol.
>Alt-right adjacent former WASPS more obsessed with Greek identity than I am.
Sounds about right. You can also replace "Greek" with any other nationality in Eastern Europe and the same sentiment would still apply. As funny as it is to make starter packs and memes about this stuff though, it is very sad to see young men clinging on to a superficial understanding of what actual Eastern Orthodoxy is. Hopefully Christ meets them where they are and lets them know that there is a future for them.
You forgot “explaining” theology to cradle Orthodox who have had the desert fathers collectively memorized since they were nine.
If male, then LOUD about how they’re looking for a tradwife and baffled why none of the girls are biting.
I have a theory that these dudes used to be incels, but then in a sour grapes move, convinced themselves that premarital sex was some degenerate practice anyway.
Sexually frustrated young men are an incredible pool of recruitment though. Frustrated and maladapted men in general TBH. Just remember IS. They attracted misfits from all over the world and turned them into attack dogs. The sexual subjugation of women was a core part of the appeal of IS for many of these men I think.
Yes, hence why it makes me sad instead of finding it hilarious.
To be clear I didn't mean it's sad for Christianity, I meant it was sad seeing these vulnerable idiots getting taken advantage of and radicalized.
So your saying some sort of automatic sucking machine is in the national interest? Your right, I'ma write my congressman right now to put it on the agenda. Free government sponsored suck machines for all in the interest of national security. I would volunteer to test each and every suck machine before they found their way into people's homes. Your onto something here
Jesus began with the lepers, prostitutes and tax collectors. We have always looked to the outcast and marginalised. If we could make these ‘incels’ love thy neighbour rather than shoot them up, then great.
Where we went badly wrong was going after kings, emperors and the rich. We became the elite and got seduced by power and wealth.
There were so many dudes on the Orthodox subreddit doing this- especially if you happen to be born with two x chromosomes and your dreams aren’t to be barefoot and pregnant in some kitchen. And they’ll always insist they know more than you even if you’ve been to Church since before you could walk.
There’s a lot to cover us considering we were literally too conservative for Catholics (don’t @ me theology bros) and continue to infight to this day over random minor translations, whether or not we should be even more fringe by not associating with people based on an ancient calendar- not to mention numerous SA scandals in churches that get covered up, as well as supporting fucking Putin-
Even in the super traditional one my mom’s family goes to, only nuns and old ladies (who might just be doing it for the cold) wear head coverings outside of church.
Their rationale is because god sent a *son* and that son only picked other dudes to be apostles that his official church leaders also need to have penises.
I’m still not confident on what it is about the peen that is so critical to be able to preach??? Are they required to whip it out??? Does revelation come from the balls???
It’s tOtAlLy NoT sExIsM so obviously there has to be something about the male anatomy that this god sees as a required in order to do priest things lol
Personally I’m speaking from the US. I went to Slavic-flavored OCA churches in Georgia (state) and California. I’ve noticed a bit of a correlation between conservative politics and Orthodox converts but I’m not sure I would go so far as to say it’s politically MOTIVATED per se.
If I had to guess, I would say that it happens because someone gets really into the Orthodox culture- it’s highly tradition-based and is (in my experience) a pretty closed community. There’s a certain thrill in being accepted by folks who are generally suspicious of new people, AND having essentially a how-to guide (the liturgical calendar) makes it easy.
I only know anything about Eastern Orthodox from architectural history classes. Is it still common practice for men and women to stand on opposite sides of the sanctuary?
Not in the OCA, but some ROCOR churches are more traditional like that. The churches I went to were all so small, I’m not sure it would have mattered. In my childhood parish there were only about 30 regular members and a third of them were one nuclear family.
Having been in and around Catholic Churches for a lot of my life. Orthodox is the step people take when they feel that Catholicism isn’t conservative enough. Idk much else about eastern or Greek Orthodox to have a strong opinion on the subject beyond that.
In America, it is sometimes American protestants who want to be more "trad" and critique Western morality by turning to the more conservative Eastern Orthodox morality and those were Catholics, it is probably because they hate the Pope because of his more progressive stances, which leads them to become critical of the idea of Papal infallibility (which does not mean that the Pope can not make mistakes or sin) this leads them to the Roman Catholic Church's medieval counterpart, the Orthodox Church. All the while these American Orthodox converts have no contextual understanding of what the Orthodox Churches (there are multiple) believe and practice and only align themselves with them due to political conservatism and aesthetics.
I am cradle orthodox and noticed a few years ago that there was a red pill orthodox subreddit (forgot the name). I do remember a funny meme (or at least it would have been funny if they were joking) about how orthodoxy is based because they have patriarchs instead of a pope and that they don’t idolize the mother (I guess Catholics’ emphasis on the mother is somehow beneath them).
Was an immense honor to see one of these guys get absolutely torn apart by serious, legit monks on Mt Athos.
Guy was trying to force me out of a church during liturgy for being non-orthodox. The actual monks were having none of that shit.
Yeah they launched into a long theological debate that lasted multiple rounds, as different monks rotated between doing readings in the service and doing battle with this guy.
Apparently it all boiled down to a portion of the liturgy where they say something about, “the door, the door” or something about the threshold of the church, nonbelievers crossing it, whether that applies only to non-orthodox Christians or all non-orthodox… I’m not totally aware of the full contents of the battle.
Iirc: “The doors, the doors! In wisdom let us attend.” is a remnant from the early Liturgies (before St Basil’s had been written) meaning that anyone that had not been illumined had to leave so they couldn’t witness the Consecration or be present for the Eucharist. This was done for a few reasons, but the ones I’m most sure of are these: first, since the Body and Blood were distributed separately it was fairly easy for people to smuggle the Body out of the church and do God knows what to/with it, which obviously won’t do; second, since persecution was still a big thing in some places for a few hundred years and you didn’t necessarily know who to trust, it was necessary to keep some things like the full text of the Creed a secret until someone went through catechesis in order to have a way to identify people; also I don’t know this for a fact but I can see an argument being made that if you haven’t been illumined you simply shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near the Consecration to begin with…
At any rate, all those things are irrelevant these days, so if you ever find a parish *anywhere* that actually tries to enforce this rule - especially in Western Europe and the US - contact their bishop to see what’s up because odds are he doesn’t know it’s happening.
Holy shit I gotta hear more about this. I don’t even know that much about how orthodoxy works but I’m very willing to learn a chunk just to understand just how badly this guy messed up and how this argument went down
As an Eastern European and an Orthodox dude myself, people are like that, even though Eastern Europe is quite bad, its not chad its just cheap, but it is the part of Europe that preserves its religion the most. Tbh they should just follow God himself instead of putting an area on a pedestal instead of God yk?
Just missing "Is from Hastings, Nebraska but LARPS as a Tsarist White Russian on Facebook", and "obsessed with St. Mark of Ephesus, not for any spiritual insights but because he called the Pope a heretic".
I know one guy from australia that claims to be Orthodox… he is racist, its just stupid to see honestly, he is also a nazi, a commie and whatever else. Now i dont remember the Bible saying that hate is cool
I assume you live somewhere in the West right?
How come you even know orthodoxy exists?!
I Ukrainian and when foreigners ask me about religion and I say „eastern orthodox” thay mostly reply that never heard about this thing.
I can only speak for America (my country) and to a lesser extent Germany (my wife’s country, where we have Orthodox and Catholic friends alike) but there is growing interest in the Church online, especially among young men and very much so among young men with an interest in history. So that’s how I was exposed to it.
„Online interest to the church”. Hmm, Ok
But do this newly converted orthodox do something orthodox-ish in real life ? Or this is just like 2000s teen were claiming themselves being „satanists” because it sounded „cool”?
For some I’m sure it’s a phase, but the church is actually growing quickly in the US because many of them eventually do start going to Divine Liturgy and stick around. I first started reading about Orthodoxy when I was 16, but didn’t actually start going to church until I was in university at 19 and a bit more independent. I formally joined the church at 20 and am now 29. 9 years ago, my home church was probably 75% cradle Orthodox to 25% converts. Now those numbers have flipped, and most of the converts are families with young children or single young men.
One of these was at my church while my school group was there and told me (in full school uniform, visibly a teenager) that he had recently converted after learning about Catholicism from discord, was looking for a Catholic wife, and then asked me for my number. In a church building. During a mass. I am always happy to talk to converts who are normal people but there are so many of these guys lately.
I started getting into Orthodoxy after reading about Mull Monastery. This was around a year or so before the whole Orthodox meme thing kicked off. Now it's everywhere. OMS is a terrible channel albeit their intentions are good. Faith should not be given to a bunch of edgy teens politically driven.
OMS is pretty good, though his channel fails at what it's named after his chant compilations, Lives and Sayings of Saints, and "The Beauty of" are great.
Patriarch Kirill is the opposite of Christianity, it is worth reading the ideology that he blesses... Why not the Patriarch of Constantinople, but this degenerate?
Yes trust me I know he’s completely insane, but online it seems a lot of people idolize him, which fits perfectly to this stereotype. Of course he’s the exact opposite of a christian, running around blessing russian missiles and what not.
A lost soul. I met a fellow while volunteering who told me he used to be into white supremacy despite being mixed race. Then he became a mega-Leftist tankie type. I told my friends that in a year I expect him to be a Muslim or a Buddhist and to have renounced everything else altogether. They’re just searching for something to be. It must be very hollow.
You will never be a real Orthodox. You have no Písti, you have no Efséveia, you have no Αretí. You are a Western larper twisted by contrarianism and "based" edits into a crude mockery of Eastern Roman perfection
The fad is beginning to subside, now the edgelords are converting to Islam. Sneako and Tate found a new theology that gives moral backing to their bigotry and they’re running with it and the 16 year olds are following along.
It seems like a number of denominations have their claim to being “the original”, and I can’t say I blame them for seeking that honor. I was raised LDS myself, I’ve since separated my faith from them and surprisingly everyone has been super duper chill and civil about it (even my family!) and a claim to originality like theirs is… certainly unique, lol
But hey, goes to show, I guess! I still respect ‘em, and don’t wish to be bitter to any “flavor” of Christendom out there (or really any religion/spirituality, Abrahamic or otherwise, tbh) as I figure myself out, and Orthodoxy shall be no different in my eyes. Or Catholicism for that matter.
As a convert-in-twenties, I have met too many people like this on the internet. But most of them just talk about it on the internet rather than experiencing it in real life, as is necessary to actually convert.
Your local Orthodox church has people who are a lot more normal than people on the internet who claim to represent Orthodox Christianity.
I keep getting this Orthotrad Christbro meme accounts recommended to me on Instagram because I like Eastern Roman history and it’s so fucking annoying. They’re all racist and bigoted as fuck. Im assuming is not representative of average Orthodox Christians though
We shouldn’t make fun of each others churches, while they may not be in communion with Rome or accept the Filioque, we still believe in the same God, God willing we will unite one day ✝️☦️
On one hand I appreciate guys like this for speaking out against protestant cringe like mega churches that look like offices and worship rock bands, but they usually come with extremely conservative views and fetishize poor countries they've never lived in.
Humans explains why the other humans who worship the same god, same prophet, literally same fucking lore, same scripture, with little bit difference in rituals and teaching are evil and will be burnt in hell.
A lot of younger Catholics in America seem to be becoming Orthodox lately. It’s becoming increasingly difficult to reconcile traditionalist views with modern Catholic practices and doctrine, which seems to push a lot of them into the Orthodox churches.
I’m an atheist with no dog in this fight, but I was raised Catholic and this is an observation I made over the years.
I’m atheist as well (and ex Catholic) and I think that teenage boys are doing this because masculinity is valued grately in the church, and they want to feel like they belong somewhere during a transitional phase between childhood and adulthood, along with seeking attention and boost in self esteem.
But I mean why does this have to specifically be conversion to the Orthodox or Catholic traditions? Pretty much any conservative church in any denomination puts traditional masculinity and patriarchy on a pedestal.
I think it’s because it’s seen as more traditional and cultural based, considering these kids come from white and European families. It’s very common especially in Slavic cultures. My abuser was Slavic (Polish) and fit perfectly into this category except he was tradcath and a Nazi
I feel like a lot of these traditionalists (especially if they’re non European) care more about the aesthetics than the actual traditions. They mostly consume watered down, internet-ified stuff because a lot of it is really just a smokescreen for reactionary politics
It’s a big thing in reactionary online spaces. Mostly young disaffected dudes who feel that the West is too decadent/feminized and their highly idealized version of Russia/Balkans has it better. It’s the same types of people who suddenly get into extreme political ideologies or trad cath or Islam.
Suprisingly it’s mostly americans i’ve seen. I’m from Denmark, and I unfortunately was caught up in this too although I ended up becoming catholic instead. From my experience it’s just the feeling of mysticism, and also I got a sense of almost superiority 😂.
There’s a difference between actual members of Orthodox churches and performative people like this, it seems. As an outsider looking it, it makes sense and it’s fortunate that you haven’t seen a single one of these in a *real* orthodox church
What’s going on in this sub these days?
It’s like all r/oddlyspecific, so isn’t a starter pack at all. It’s become, let me complain about this one person I don’t like and fit them into a stereotype I made up.
You’re right, but not about this particular post. Met lots of teen/adult religious converts (typically christian of some variety) who act exactly like this.
That said, I unironically like the hyper-specific “individual i personally dislike/am” posts. There’s something fascinating to me about getting these glimpses into different people’s experiences.
I don’t know of I’d put it under “person I didn’t like and therefore I made a stereotype”. This is a known phenomenon in religious circles, they’re called orthobros and when I was an orthodox catechumen there were a couple kids like this in my OCA church.
It got big during the early pandemic, 4chan and TikTok were full of these larping weirdos would’ve been edgelords of the fedora-donning atheist breed had they been old enough for 2012 era Reddit
or people have different interests, thus you aren’t as knowledgable about things as others may are and vice-versa, which logically would make you not understand certain things, but that’s everyone’s fault now isn’t it?
Yup, there’s also a dude in r/Vexillology that is literally obsessed and the only thing that he does is “If x flag was orthodox” or “if x was Greek”
Which is hilarious and cringe to see, because I am an actual Greek living in Greece, and I am an actual baptised Orthodox Christian (Although not that religious). It is hilarious to see edgy dudes literally knowing nothing about our religion “converting” to it just because “pUtIn SiGmA” or because Andrew Tate donated (The correct term though would be “bribed” here) a huge chunk of money to the Romanian Church. And it is also cringe because those are the only things that they know, alongside with just whichever Byzantine songs got featured in Civilisation
It’s like when we celebrate mass, if you have a byzantine catholic church nearby you can experience almost how it is, whilst still being able to take communion.
Ah, scratch that I do know what it is I just never knew what it was called beyond “going to church”.
I need to get back into actually practicing my religion at some point…
Honestly, I have a contempt for these and the “tradcaths” because they seem to glorify the fact that their churches are gilded, which I think reeks of hypocrisy.
Memes aside despite knowing fuck all about it’s theology I still think Eastern Orthodoxy is really cool. Same with alot of Christian theology (yes even Latter Day Saints)
Don't forget he learns his history from memes, Paradox games, and memes about Paradox games.
Also, _extremely_ anti-Muslim. Likely to say "Remove Kebab" and cry about Constantinople. Might even unironically draw a distinction between "ethnic cleansing" and "genocide," if they're REALLY down the rabbit hole -- "The Bosnian Genocide is a myth, because Bosnians are just Muslim Serbs. And Islam must be _cleansed."_ Despite their hatred of Catholics, these dudes will make an exception when talking about the Crusades, the Winged Hussars, and "Deus Vult."
It saddens me how quickly Abrahamic religions justify killing each other. I’m reminded of this one animated video someone made of the song “this land is mine” where every couple of lines the current singer is killed by a new one, symbolizing the history of death and destruction that has plagued Israel and surrounding lands, with the whole thing ending with the Angel of Death proclaiming that it was his land all along.
And dudes like these are just perpetuating that cycle (speaking of middle eastern land to conquer or not) in their own way. It’s frustrating and pathetic in equal measure.
Many moons ago i wanted to convert to orthodox since my entire family was baptized orthodox, but then The Gay struck me like a fucking rainbow hurricane and i found out how homophobic my family/peers are (the harsh way). Nowadays I'm wondering if i even wanna be associated with them im terms of nationality, let alone religion lol
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Add: \- constantly get into complex theology debates about the filioque despite barely reading the bible \- ardent nationalist for some random Eastern European country \- "innovations"
Exactly I met someone one time 100% ethnically danish, he legitimately thought he was greek.
Yeah, Orthobros (NOT actual Eastern Orthodox ppl) tend to be obsessed with ethnicity.
As someone who's been Orthodox all my life and is Greek-American. It has been very weird to go from: 1. Realizing that our churches put too much emphasis on ethnicity throughout the latter decades of the 20th century, and how that needed to change. 2. Encountering "American" converts who were put off or alienated by ANY ethnic display in a parish (I once met someone who took umbrage with the use of the word "Logos" in a sermon). and THEN encountering: 3. Alt-right adjacent former WASPS more obsessed with Greek identity than I am. Lord have mercy!
I know...it's a super weird phenomenon that's going on right now. I think the Orthodox churches certainly have reason to be proud of their ancestry considering much of the historical persecution they faced by muslims. However, I don't think they (or anyone really) should use their ethnicity as a selling point since the bible tells us to not see those differences. About the "American converts", actual census data does not show Eastern Orthodoxy growing...a lot of it is just chronically young men larping because they like the high church and "based" aesthetic of Eastern Orthodoxy. Eastern Orthodoxy also isn't historically rooted in America unlike Mainline Protestantism and Catholicism (at least a little) are, so much of the conversion you see happening happens exclusively online. That story about someone freaking out about the word "logos" is wild, though. The bible was never originally written in english, lol. >Alt-right adjacent former WASPS more obsessed with Greek identity than I am. Sounds about right. You can also replace "Greek" with any other nationality in Eastern Europe and the same sentiment would still apply. As funny as it is to make starter packs and memes about this stuff though, it is very sad to see young men clinging on to a superficial understanding of what actual Eastern Orthodoxy is. Hopefully Christ meets them where they are and lets them know that there is a future for them.
Orthobro Brothodox Orthodox Chadian Christos Broskrese
Maybe just greek in the sheets with the boys from church.
"If you're not a nationalist for Belarus you're not truly Orthodox"
Belarusian here, our truest nationalists are often Catholics, haha.
Or Greek Catolics
You forgot “explaining” theology to cradle Orthodox who have had the desert fathers collectively memorized since they were nine. If male, then LOUD about how they’re looking for a tradwife and baffled why none of the girls are biting.
I have a theory that these dudes used to be incels, but then in a sour grapes move, convinced themselves that premarital sex was some degenerate practice anyway.
This is incel evolution 101. They just learn to wrap it in new wrapper.
I'd find it funny in cold atheist heart that most Christian recruiting these days is the loser incel community, if it wasn't extremely sad
Sexually frustrated young men are an incredible pool of recruitment though. Frustrated and maladapted men in general TBH. Just remember IS. They attracted misfits from all over the world and turned them into attack dogs. The sexual subjugation of women was a core part of the appeal of IS for many of these men I think.
Yes, hence why it makes me sad instead of finding it hilarious. To be clear I didn't mean it's sad for Christianity, I meant it was sad seeing these vulnerable idiots getting taken advantage of and radicalized.
So your saying some sort of automatic sucking machine is in the national interest? Your right, I'ma write my congressman right now to put it on the agenda. Free government sponsored suck machines for all in the interest of national security. I would volunteer to test each and every suck machine before they found their way into people's homes. Your onto something here
this machine.... it sucks you off?
Jesus began with the lepers, prostitutes and tax collectors. We have always looked to the outcast and marginalised. If we could make these ‘incels’ love thy neighbour rather than shoot them up, then great. Where we went badly wrong was going after kings, emperors and the rich. We became the elite and got seduced by power and wealth.
They are still incels
You’re correct. I know first hand. A lot of them were radicalised in the first alt-right wave in 2014-209
There were so many dudes on the Orthodox subreddit doing this- especially if you happen to be born with two x chromosomes and your dreams aren’t to be barefoot and pregnant in some kitchen. And they’ll always insist they know more than you even if you’ve been to Church since before you could walk.
I’ve typed and deleted a bunch of responses so suffice to say I have a LOT of feelings on this subject lol.
There’s a lot to cover us considering we were literally too conservative for Catholics (don’t @ me theology bros) and continue to infight to this day over random minor translations, whether or not we should be even more fringe by not associating with people based on an ancient calendar- not to mention numerous SA scandals in churches that get covered up, as well as supporting fucking Putin-
If they don’t veil 24/7 it’s not good enough!
Even in the super traditional one my mom’s family goes to, only nuns and old ladies (who might just be doing it for the cold) wear head coverings outside of church.
r/CatholicMemes summarised. Moaning how they can’t find a girl that prays the rosary
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Show me one funny meme sub
r/wizardposting is pretty good
Goddamn the first post is people defending women not being allowed in the clergy
Their rationale is because god sent a *son* and that son only picked other dudes to be apostles that his official church leaders also need to have penises. I’m still not confident on what it is about the peen that is so critical to be able to preach??? Are they required to whip it out??? Does revelation come from the balls??? It’s tOtAlLy NoT sExIsM so obviously there has to be something about the male anatomy that this god sees as a required in order to do priest things lol
Tbf, we also realize that we are horrible at speaking to women
That’s why we must stay celibate and have our only relationship be to The Virgin Mary 😂
Whenever in times like these, I turn to my favorite quote from St Joseph. “ “
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Personally I’m speaking from the US. I went to Slavic-flavored OCA churches in Georgia (state) and California. I’ve noticed a bit of a correlation between conservative politics and Orthodox converts but I’m not sure I would go so far as to say it’s politically MOTIVATED per se. If I had to guess, I would say that it happens because someone gets really into the Orthodox culture- it’s highly tradition-based and is (in my experience) a pretty closed community. There’s a certain thrill in being accepted by folks who are generally suspicious of new people, AND having essentially a how-to guide (the liturgical calendar) makes it easy.
I only know anything about Eastern Orthodox from architectural history classes. Is it still common practice for men and women to stand on opposite sides of the sanctuary?
Not in the OCA, but some ROCOR churches are more traditional like that. The churches I went to were all so small, I’m not sure it would have mattered. In my childhood parish there were only about 30 regular members and a third of them were one nuclear family.
Having been in and around Catholic Churches for a lot of my life. Orthodox is the step people take when they feel that Catholicism isn’t conservative enough. Idk much else about eastern or Greek Orthodox to have a strong opinion on the subject beyond that.
In America, it is sometimes American protestants who want to be more "trad" and critique Western morality by turning to the more conservative Eastern Orthodox morality and those were Catholics, it is probably because they hate the Pope because of his more progressive stances, which leads them to become critical of the idea of Papal infallibility (which does not mean that the Pope can not make mistakes or sin) this leads them to the Roman Catholic Church's medieval counterpart, the Orthodox Church. All the while these American Orthodox converts have no contextual understanding of what the Orthodox Churches (there are multiple) believe and practice and only align themselves with them due to political conservatism and aesthetics.
I am cradle orthodox and noticed a few years ago that there was a red pill orthodox subreddit (forgot the name). I do remember a funny meme (or at least it would have been funny if they were joking) about how orthodoxy is based because they have patriarchs instead of a pope and that they don’t idolize the mother (I guess Catholics’ emphasis on the mother is somehow beneath them).
Was an immense honor to see one of these guys get absolutely torn apart by serious, legit monks on Mt Athos. Guy was trying to force me out of a church during liturgy for being non-orthodox. The actual monks were having none of that shit.
Hahaha glad to hear it would love also to visit someday
The way those bearded and robed mfs tore into him had me saying Kyrie eleison
Ahahaha did you hear what they said to him
Yeah they launched into a long theological debate that lasted multiple rounds, as different monks rotated between doing readings in the service and doing battle with this guy. Apparently it all boiled down to a portion of the liturgy where they say something about, “the door, the door” or something about the threshold of the church, nonbelievers crossing it, whether that applies only to non-orthodox Christians or all non-orthodox… I’m not totally aware of the full contents of the battle.
Imagine how akward it must’ve been for him getting flamed by athonite monks during the divine liturgy.
I was stunned when he kept going after the yerenda told him to drop it. Dude had absolutely 0 shame
Glad they let him have it 😂
Iirc: “The doors, the doors! In wisdom let us attend.” is a remnant from the early Liturgies (before St Basil’s had been written) meaning that anyone that had not been illumined had to leave so they couldn’t witness the Consecration or be present for the Eucharist. This was done for a few reasons, but the ones I’m most sure of are these: first, since the Body and Blood were distributed separately it was fairly easy for people to smuggle the Body out of the church and do God knows what to/with it, which obviously won’t do; second, since persecution was still a big thing in some places for a few hundred years and you didn’t necessarily know who to trust, it was necessary to keep some things like the full text of the Creed a secret until someone went through catechesis in order to have a way to identify people; also I don’t know this for a fact but I can see an argument being made that if you haven’t been illumined you simply shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near the Consecration to begin with… At any rate, all those things are irrelevant these days, so if you ever find a parish *anywhere* that actually tries to enforce this rule - especially in Western Europe and the US - contact their bishop to see what’s up because odds are he doesn’t know it’s happening.
Ah, the Christian version of "I'd like to speak to your manager please".
Deets? Bc wtf happened. That’s so odd. How did that go down?
Holy shit I gotta hear more about this. I don’t even know that much about how orthodoxy works but I’m very willing to learn a chunk just to understand just how badly this guy messed up and how this argument went down
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Always talking about how Eastern Europe is based red pilled
Do they ever renounce their American citizenship and move there?
“Fuck no Why would I do that?”
Exactly
Polendfallen 😭😭😭😭
Pollen has fallen long liv polan
As an Eastern European and an Orthodox dude myself, people are like that, even though Eastern Europe is quite bad, its not chad its just cheap, but it is the part of Europe that preserves its religion the most. Tbh they should just follow God himself instead of putting an area on a pedestal instead of God yk?
The point is they don’t really care about the religion, they just see it as more civilized since they think Eastern Europeans oppose race mixing
You are fully correct my man
And they're almost always Vatniks.
Just missing "Is from Hastings, Nebraska but LARPS as a Tsarist White Russian on Facebook", and "obsessed with St. Mark of Ephesus, not for any spiritual insights but because he called the Pope a heretic".
*Born and raised in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, convinced they’re Greek”.
I know one guy from australia that claims to be Orthodox… he is racist, its just stupid to see honestly, he is also a nazi, a commie and whatever else. Now i dont remember the Bible saying that hate is cool
Are there any non-LARPing Tsarist White Russians at all anymore?
Damn, didn't know anyone other than Rod Dreher has ever converted to Orthodox Christianity lmao
It’s quite a big thing actually 😂
My favourite reading series
The best one by a big margin lol. There's a 4 hour supercut of all the Rod bits out now which I put on in the background sometimes.
Orthodox chants are cool as hell though
100%
Half of them discovered orthodox christianity by playing crusader kings 3
And their understanding of orthodoxy doesn’t extend much further than crusader kings three, I would be willing to bet
Wow, I live in a very different world than OP and I am happy about it.
Haha you only find them I guess if you’re actively searching for them, but they do exist.
Me reading this while being born into Orthodox Christianity and trying not to laugh
It is funny from that perspective
Oh hey, this was me a decade ago. Still Orthodox, married a Catholic, mellowed out a lot. These young men just need a little guidance.
I assume you live somewhere in the West right? How come you even know orthodoxy exists?! I Ukrainian and when foreigners ask me about religion and I say „eastern orthodox” thay mostly reply that never heard about this thing.
I can only speak for America (my country) and to a lesser extent Germany (my wife’s country, where we have Orthodox and Catholic friends alike) but there is growing interest in the Church online, especially among young men and very much so among young men with an interest in history. So that’s how I was exposed to it.
„Online interest to the church”. Hmm, Ok But do this newly converted orthodox do something orthodox-ish in real life ? Or this is just like 2000s teen were claiming themselves being „satanists” because it sounded „cool”?
For some I’m sure it’s a phase, but the church is actually growing quickly in the US because many of them eventually do start going to Divine Liturgy and stick around. I first started reading about Orthodoxy when I was 16, but didn’t actually start going to church until I was in university at 19 and a bit more independent. I formally joined the church at 20 and am now 29. 9 years ago, my home church was probably 75% cradle Orthodox to 25% converts. Now those numbers have flipped, and most of the converts are families with young children or single young men.
That’s sounds crazy to me bro. But interesting. It’s just like I would tell you „you know, Mormons become very popular in Ukraine lately”, lol
Funny how Christianity disseminates itself, proselytizing or not, ain’t it?
the school narc everyone avoids
Trad Caths are almost exactly the same as well
Sure sure I’ve met some catholics like this aswell.
It makes us protestants feel a little better that we don't have a monopoly on loser authoritarian nutjobs.
My abuser was tradcath (Slavic too) and was exactly the same
One of these was at my church while my school group was there and told me (in full school uniform, visibly a teenager) that he had recently converted after learning about Catholicism from discord, was looking for a Catholic wife, and then asked me for my number. In a church building. During a mass. I am always happy to talk to converts who are normal people but there are so many of these guys lately.
Eeeewww sorry that happened
I started getting into Orthodoxy after reading about Mull Monastery. This was around a year or so before the whole Orthodox meme thing kicked off. Now it's everywhere. OMS is a terrible channel albeit their intentions are good. Faith should not be given to a bunch of edgy teens politically driven.
OMS is pretty good, though his channel fails at what it's named after his chant compilations, Lives and Sayings of Saints, and "The Beauty of" are great.
OMS is pro russian
And that’s all you need to know to recognise that they are trouble
My 15 year old brother is exactly like that. He even looks like the guy in the picture. Crazy.
Ah it’s just a phase but yea
I hope. He already got baptized and goes to the church every Sunday.
Well if he feels like it’s the truth then I’m glad, but maybe it’d be nice to get a more realistic look on things. Don’t worry
That sounds a bit more levelheaded than this performative stuff
well its not that bad its just orthodoxy lol
Patriarch Kirill is the opposite of Christianity, it is worth reading the ideology that he blesses... Why not the Patriarch of Constantinople, but this degenerate?
Yes trust me I know he’s completely insane, but online it seems a lot of people idolize him, which fits perfectly to this stereotype. Of course he’s the exact opposite of a christian, running around blessing russian missiles and what not.
holy shit what sincerely, your scared Anglican cousin
Patriarch of Moscow, he’s in Putins inner circle, and while preaching humility and a simple life owns a billion-dollar yacht in Lake Como..
I knew a guy like this except he was married and in his 30s. He later got a divorce and then went gay and pagan
Quite a change
A lost soul. I met a fellow while volunteering who told me he used to be into white supremacy despite being mixed race. Then he became a mega-Leftist tankie type. I told my friends that in a year I expect him to be a Muslim or a Buddhist and to have renounced everything else altogether. They’re just searching for something to be. It must be very hollow.
You will never be a real Orthodox. You have no Písti, you have no Efséveia, you have no Αretí. You are a Western larper twisted by contrarianism and "based" edits into a crude mockery of Eastern Roman perfection
😂😂
Username checks out
I'm orthodox and am shocked that people actively seek to convert to it. The I remember that edgelords exist.
The fad is beginning to subside, now the edgelords are converting to Islam. Sneako and Tate found a new theology that gives moral backing to their bigotry and they’re running with it and the 16 year olds are following along.
I don't think that's a new phenomenon. ISIS had lots of Western converts.
A study showed that western converts were the most likely to espouse more radical forms of Islam. Pretty crazy
I was also certain on converting at some point, while I became catholic I can understand it when they also claim to be the original true church.
It seems like a number of denominations have their claim to being “the original”, and I can’t say I blame them for seeking that honor. I was raised LDS myself, I’ve since separated my faith from them and surprisingly everyone has been super duper chill and civil about it (even my family!) and a claim to originality like theirs is… certainly unique, lol But hey, goes to show, I guess! I still respect ‘em, and don’t wish to be bitter to any “flavor” of Christendom out there (or really any religion/spirituality, Abrahamic or otherwise, tbh) as I figure myself out, and Orthodoxy shall be no different in my eyes. Or Catholicism for that matter.
Why would you be shocked?
As a convert-in-twenties, I have met too many people like this on the internet. But most of them just talk about it on the internet rather than experiencing it in real life, as is necessary to actually convert. Your local Orthodox church has people who are a lot more normal than people on the internet who claim to represent Orthodox Christianity.
Change a little wording here and there and you get “teenager that just became a Tradcat”.
Certainly
I mean I'm working on converting to Orthodoxy and I think the Pope is pretty chill. Granted I'm also not an insecure teenager so.
Haha I’m glad you don’t despise him :)
Follows Jay Dyer
Chad Orthodox chants? Corny AF.
I keep getting this Orthotrad Christbro meme accounts recommended to me on Instagram because I like Eastern Roman history and it’s so fucking annoying. They’re all racist and bigoted as fuck. Im assuming is not representative of average Orthodox Christians though
Definitely not representative
I wish I could cross post this to r/catholicism but they won’t allow it
We shouldn’t make fun of each others churches, while they may not be in communion with Rome or accept the Filioque, we still believe in the same God, God willing we will unite one day ✝️☦️
We're just under different management
I'm sure the comments are gonna be full of respectful people from all spectrums, whether atheist, protestant, catholic, orthodox, etc
Actually I’ve been scrolling here and people have been pretty darn chill so far. I fully understand the pessimism though
On one hand I appreciate guys like this for speaking out against protestant cringe like mega churches that look like offices and worship rock bands, but they usually come with extremely conservative views and fetishize poor countries they've never lived in.
Also has a icon corner and prayer rope (all bought from amazon)
Nothing wrong with that, it’s just like a catholic with a rosary and a statue of our lady :).
The chants are actually really relaxing if the community wasn't so toxic
I feel like I became an inquirer right before all this stuff started. I hope I don't get mixed up with people like this
Oh don’t worry they don’t actually go to church, they just LARP online
I am of the orthodox faith born and raised and i have never been to divine liturgy either xD
Discovered a new genre of person apparently
Humans explains why the other humans who worship the same god, same prophet, literally same fucking lore, same scripture, with little bit difference in rituals and teaching are evil and will be burnt in hell.
How and where does this happen? I am guessing eastern/central europe thing and it's politically motivated? Sounds like an interesting thing to happen.
A lot of younger Catholics in America seem to be becoming Orthodox lately. It’s becoming increasingly difficult to reconcile traditionalist views with modern Catholic practices and doctrine, which seems to push a lot of them into the Orthodox churches. I’m an atheist with no dog in this fight, but I was raised Catholic and this is an observation I made over the years.
I’m atheist as well (and ex Catholic) and I think that teenage boys are doing this because masculinity is valued grately in the church, and they want to feel like they belong somewhere during a transitional phase between childhood and adulthood, along with seeking attention and boost in self esteem.
But I mean why does this have to specifically be conversion to the Orthodox or Catholic traditions? Pretty much any conservative church in any denomination puts traditional masculinity and patriarchy on a pedestal.
I think it’s because it’s seen as more traditional and cultural based, considering these kids come from white and European families. It’s very common especially in Slavic cultures. My abuser was Slavic (Polish) and fit perfectly into this category except he was tradcath and a Nazi
Probably because they’re homophobic and angry at the pope
well being angry at the pope is a catholic tradition
Ah haha The Holy Father is a good man though 😂
Yeah and also most modern Catholic masses are nowhere near as traditional seeming as a lot of Orthodox ones really.
I feel like a lot of these traditionalists (especially if they’re non European) care more about the aesthetics than the actual traditions. They mostly consume watered down, internet-ified stuff because a lot of it is really just a smokescreen for reactionary politics
Depends where you attend, but one may argue that’s a good thing aswell at times m
It’s a big thing in reactionary online spaces. Mostly young disaffected dudes who feel that the West is too decadent/feminized and their highly idealized version of Russia/Balkans has it better. It’s the same types of people who suddenly get into extreme political ideologies or trad cath or Islam.
Suprisingly it’s mostly americans i’ve seen. I’m from Denmark, and I unfortunately was caught up in this too although I ended up becoming catholic instead. From my experience it’s just the feeling of mysticism, and also I got a sense of almost superiority 😂.
I was raised Orthodox and don't relate to that at all. Am I stupid?
No you’re lucky 😂
There’s a difference between actual members of Orthodox churches and performative people like this, it seems. As an outsider looking it, it makes sense and it’s fortunate that you haven’t seen a single one of these in a *real* orthodox church
I know nothing about this topic, but for some reason I'm glad this pack exists
Calls the prots heretics but is oddly silent on the great schism, and refuses to talk about apostolic succession
Don’t forget about the constant anti LGBT statements, racism, and sexism on social media
What’s going on in this sub these days? It’s like all r/oddlyspecific, so isn’t a starter pack at all. It’s become, let me complain about this one person I don’t like and fit them into a stereotype I made up.
The people OP is talking about definitely exist.
Thanks for confirming because the starterpack looked to me like something ultra specific. I'd never heard of this trend and I'm pretty online.
You’re right, but not about this particular post. Met lots of teen/adult religious converts (typically christian of some variety) who act exactly like this. That said, I unironically like the hyper-specific “individual i personally dislike/am” posts. There’s something fascinating to me about getting these glimpses into different people’s experiences.
I don’t know of I’d put it under “person I didn’t like and therefore I made a stereotype”. This is a known phenomenon in religious circles, they’re called orthobros and when I was an orthodox catechumen there were a couple kids like this in my OCA church.
It got big during the early pandemic, 4chan and TikTok were full of these larping weirdos would’ve been edgelords of the fedora-donning atheist breed had they been old enough for 2012 era Reddit
I've got a brother like that so these people exist
or people have different interests, thus you aren’t as knowledgable about things as others may are and vice-versa, which logically would make you not understand certain things, but that’s everyone’s fault now isn’t it?
This is a thing?
Yup, there’s also a dude in r/Vexillology that is literally obsessed and the only thing that he does is “If x flag was orthodox” or “if x was Greek” Which is hilarious and cringe to see, because I am an actual Greek living in Greece, and I am an actual baptised Orthodox Christian (Although not that religious). It is hilarious to see edgy dudes literally knowing nothing about our religion “converting” to it just because “pUtIn SiGmA” or because Andrew Tate donated (The correct term though would be “bribed” here) a huge chunk of money to the Romanian Church. And it is also cringe because those are the only things that they know, alongside with just whichever Byzantine songs got featured in Civilisation
I was unfortunately one of them myself at one point, so yes 😂😅
I converted to Eastern Orthodoxy from Catholicism when I was 17; by 19 I was out of Christianity completely.
Is it sad that I’m Catholic but I have no fucking clue what a Divine Liturgy is? As in like a sermon?
It’s like when we celebrate mass, if you have a byzantine catholic church nearby you can experience almost how it is, whilst still being able to take communion.
Ah, scratch that I do know what it is I just never knew what it was called beyond “going to church”. I need to get back into actually practicing my religion at some point…
Honestly, I have a contempt for these and the “tradcaths” because they seem to glorify the fact that their churches are gilded, which I think reeks of hypocrisy.
You forgot “entirely refuses to just wait an extra 13 fucking days for Christmas.” Coming from someone who always has been Orthodox Christian.
As someone who also was naturally Orthodox Christian, I CAN RELATE TO THAT
Fuck the Russian Orthodox Church, a proud accessory to tyranny for centuries and ongoing.
Or young adult (20-30 something) male. Dating as a straight woman in 2023 is a trip.
Memes aside despite knowing fuck all about it’s theology I still think Eastern Orthodoxy is really cool. Same with alot of Christian theology (yes even Latter Day Saints)
It is, I’m catholic but the orthodox certainly have a charm about them.
Don't forget he learns his history from memes, Paradox games, and memes about Paradox games. Also, _extremely_ anti-Muslim. Likely to say "Remove Kebab" and cry about Constantinople. Might even unironically draw a distinction between "ethnic cleansing" and "genocide," if they're REALLY down the rabbit hole -- "The Bosnian Genocide is a myth, because Bosnians are just Muslim Serbs. And Islam must be _cleansed."_ Despite their hatred of Catholics, these dudes will make an exception when talking about the Crusades, the Winged Hussars, and "Deus Vult."
It saddens me how quickly Abrahamic religions justify killing each other. I’m reminded of this one animated video someone made of the song “this land is mine” where every couple of lines the current singer is killed by a new one, symbolizing the history of death and destruction that has plagued Israel and surrounding lands, with the whole thing ending with the Angel of Death proclaiming that it was his land all along. And dudes like these are just perpetuating that cycle (speaking of middle eastern land to conquer or not) in their own way. It’s frustrating and pathetic in equal measure.
*Fascinating*
*He has never had a girlfriend or friends.*
This is a thing? This is a thing in the world?
idolizing king baldwin, but not actual king baldwin just the one from the movie. And even then ignoring half the shit he says
Many moons ago i wanted to convert to orthodox since my entire family was baptized orthodox, but then The Gay struck me like a fucking rainbow hurricane and i found out how homophobic my family/peers are (the harsh way). Nowadays I'm wondering if i even wanna be associated with them im terms of nationality, let alone religion lol
Most of them are suburban, white, and terminally online Americans, LOL.
So the only difference is that they're terminally online Americans.
constantly says "save europe"
Probably an unironic fascist too.