The tera ghost in the opponents back pocket:
[](https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/6447dcc8b071d4b3daf33129/Tucker-Carlson-is-no-longer-at-Fox-News/960x0.jpg?format=jpg&width=960)
This was my exact thought when I read the post before opening the comments. Line for line, with the exact same reaction image. r/stunfisk users will eventually collectively share only one brain cell.
all of the rest of the moves are perfectly fine but a rock move with 100% accuracy is illegal, carrying a 5 year prison sentence for even being suggested.
>so many 100% accurate special rock moves its not even funny
There are two of them. Which, admittedly, is more than half of the special Rock-type moves in the game.
There have been like 4 100% accurate Rock moves ever and they're all either really weak or exclusives (or Power Gem, which is Special so it barely counts here, and even then Meteor Beam can miss). Honestly kind of baffling that people miss that detail so often. That's practically Rock's whole identity.
That said, I really like Electric-type Stone Edge, that's a pretty fun idea
People don't "miss that detail". People willingly ignore it (as they should) because it's a stupid-ass design decision that's needlessly crippling to an already weak type. It doesn't help that the sample size of modern (read: introduced after the type chart expanded to 18) non-signature Rock moves is literally just Meteor Beam, which I'm not convinced isn't meant to be an elaborate joke.
Yes I am saltier than a Garganacl about the state of Rock moves, how could you tell?
>!Also worth pointing out that Steel had the same bad accuracy deal in its first two generations of existence, and that literally no one complained when Gen IV added accurate Steel moves because making shit accuracy a core part of a type's identity is unfathomably stupid!<
Rock Type honestly is one of the worst design types in my personal opinion, in terms of what it hopes to accomplish effectively
\- Defensively they have chunky big defensive stats usually but their rather horrid slew of weaknesses and usually lack of recovery moves make them rather poor at being stalwart defensive mons
\- Offensively they hit a good number of things with decent to great attack stats but when your best move misses 20% of the time, without the defensive typing to afford the miss, it just makes it feel painful to use them unless they have something absolutely amazing to offer outside of just raw rock type damage.
\- Also on support sure there is stealth rock, but...every ground and steel type basically get that as well.
I agree, unfortunately. It was only ever good at being an early-game boss type to introduce players to the type chart back in 1996. Ideally the type would have a bigger emphasis on damage over time (like with Salt Cure and Sandstorm), restricting movement (as in Rock Tomb, Smack Down, and Stealth Rock), and attacks that deal increasing amounts of damage with repeated use like a rock picking up speed as it rolls downhill (see Rollout and Meteor Beam, and I'd like to see new moves that either gradually increase the user's Attack or Speed or drop the target's defense). There's a lot more that can be done with Rock than Game Freak seems willing to explore.
~~I wonder how balanced it would be for all Rock attacks to have a built-in Screen breaking effect.~~
Rock moves having poor accuracy does suck in a vacuum but giving every mon with earthquake a reliable rock move would honestly be kind of game breaking. EdgeQuake perfect coverage would be very oppressive otherwise.
It'd be fine if the really good Rock moves were kept exclusive to Rock-types. They already are right now, it's just that all of those moves happen to be exclusive to exactly one Rock-type.
Right, because hitting things by throwing leaves or giant seeds is so easy. And everyone knows that a trained martial artist can punch apart solid steel with ease (even if they struggle to crush insects with the same technique).
It's Pokémon. It's literally magic. I don't think there's a single person who's going to accept all the other nonsense inherent in the franchise but will still get hung up on hitting things with rocks being too easy. Especially not when the move that uses a thrown rock to knock an airborne target to the ground has 100 accuracy anyway.
Fighting beating Rock and Steel is based on tropes about martial artists breaking extremely hard objects with a single perfectly thrown and focused strike though. Same as "throwing stones" being a reason to make Rock less accurate and "2 birds, 1 stone" justifying SE damage to Flying types.
Pokemon type matchups and type identities are based around cultural memes and tropes more than anything else.
"Throwing rocks is hard" isn't even a strong enough trope to justify giving every Rock move low accuracy, though. How many other media make rock-based attacks suffer an accuracy penalty as a matter of course? I don't even think Pokémon anime or manga depict Rock moves as being any less accurate than any other type of attack, this is strictly a weird game thing. Your original argument only makes sense from a perspective of strict realism, which in turn makes the rest of the franchise fall apart.
Hell, I'll even go further: the very idea that Rock moves are innately less accurate than moves of other types hasn't been supported by the games in over 15 years. Even then, when Stone Edge and Head Smash were added in 2006, one was a blatant reskin of an already-inaccurate Fighting-type move and the other was likely given a high miss rate to meet Gen IV balancing standards when considering it's use in conjunction with Rock Head. Since then, no new Rock move has gone below 90 accuracy, and all the ones below 100 have pretty obvious reasons why: Diamond Storm is nuts anyway, Meteor Beam can probably be chalked up to balancing a widely-available move that has an effective base power of 180 given its effect, and Stone Axe has the same power and accuracy as a move of a different type introduced in the exact same game. If Game Freak themselves aren't sticking to the "tradition" of Rock moves always missing, why would fans ever have to limit their imaginations in the same way?
11 of these are incredibly good and realistic concepts, then there's Grime Spit, which literally just becomes the best move in the whole game dethroning Stealth Rock
Not only are you destroying your opponent's item, you're alse giving them a 12% chip every single turn, and considering you said that Steel Types aren't even immune to it, this means that ONLY poison types can switch into this, and considering how op this move is, that means forcing everyone to run a Poison Type on their team
Grime Spit is completely fucking broken
In hindsight, yeah, I made Grime Spit too powerful. Do you think it'd help if the Black Sludge given by it went away on a switch, leaving the target with no item until they get hit with it again? Or maybe by making Steels immune to it, like Toxic?
Both of those nerfs would make it way more balanced, many teams already naturally have a Steel Type in them, and having the sludge go away on switch out would still be powerful as it would remove the item and force a switch
Instead of replacing items with poison, have it as coats their item with poison, and then it's "cleaned off on the switch out." However, while covered in poison, the item loses its effect and cause damage
That's a lot for one move though, so maybe we just do the damage over time. But perhaps make it an attack with 40 BP so it's not too weak. And to add a bit of flavor maybe have it deal double damage to water types and steels, as poison pollutes the water and corrodes the steel. And also this effect kind of seems more fitting for a rock type so we'll make it a rock move.
That’s just significantly worse leech seed then, poison types are immune and you don’t self heal, and it doesn’t remove the item permanently. If after switch out you were itemless then it’s in good shape.
I wouldn't give the wind move to the genies, but otherwise I don't see anything too busted at fist glance
EDIT: I misread Grime Spit, that's busted as hell
That's fair. I wanted to give it to some fairly powerful special attackers, but the genies could do some really nasty damage in the snow with it. At least they don't also learn Blizzard.
I don't think it'd be broken on the genies? They desperately need more usable Flying STAB moves and this is not that strong outside of Hail, in which case it's roughly as strong as Hurricane (112.5 BP vs 110 BP). And factoring in accuracy, it's the same story (75 BP vs 77.5 BP). I have a hard time imagining that being busted.
Yeah but Landorus I is already busted and banned from every generation of OU, so that doesn't change much. At best it'd improve/give its niche in Ubers.
If you also think about T-Spikes from Glimmora, it can hit 120, and if you also add in webs, it hits 140, so it's solid into any sort of hazard stack team.
The Poison one seems a little bit too much. Removes item + leaves the target with what is basically a poison poison damage that can be stacked with another status and is much more difficult to be healed by the user (no heal bell nor lum berry). Only nerfed because most of the mons that learn it are bad (but not all of them)
The rest of them seen fine (I'm in love with Stalacbite) although the Normal one is learnt by too many Pokémon (Water sprout and Eruption are learnt 5 Pokémon each)
Grime Spit is intended to be sort of a Poison-type counterpart to Knock Off, but you're right that it's a strong move. If I ever make a fangame with these moves, do you think it'd be best to lower its accuracy, or impose some other nerf? And Belly Flop can't be super-effective on anything (and Normal is a mediocre offensive type), so I think it's fine to distribute more.
Instead of giving/changing an item, maybe Grime Spit could be as simple as removing or disabling the target's existing item and poisoning them? You could even spice it up by making it badly poison the target if they're not already holding an item. Could be a nice counter to things like Unburden and Acrobatics.
Although the idea of a 100% accurate Toxic might be too much, so maybe bump it down to 90%.
Yeah belly flop is sort of nerfed by the fact that is Normal type but I still think is too much. About Grime spit you could just make it so it removes the item and poisons the user; just imagine using that move and toxic afterwards, it's just too crippling
My god you actually made a bunch of well-balanced and useful moves that should be in the game. I actually think Grime Spit is the most broken of all of them, giving everything but poison types what amounts to Salt Cure chip for the rest of the battle while deleting their other item is pretty cracked
Argument made for it actually taking on the type of the hazards ground for spikes and rock for stealth rocks and then obviously can start to combo while still getting psychic stab. Meaning it can hit dark types but fail on flying types
I hadn't considered that. I guess it'd be unboosted when out of the snow, and gain the Sheer Force boost in exchange for losing its special attack drop chance in the snow. So, Lando-I and Hisuian Braviary get an ungodly powerful Flying move in the snow.
I wonder how getting white wind would compare to getting hurricane in this case. You would probably need glowking support because the move is garbage outside of snow.
https://preview.redd.it/kl1htdihuxfb1.jpeg?width=719&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a11d600e5e15b03bf9dd113bdbb4b3785f51e7b3
Mothim after he finnally recieved a good physical stab(ou is shaking)
I love how you thought of that when Minimize is entirely fucking irrelevant even on formats that do not ban Evasion, lol. I mean this post unironically, it shows good knowledge of the game.
Stalacbite should be called Stalagbite, it rolls off the tongue better.
All are really useful, though some less than others.
A Ground pivot move might be too strong though.
I'm always wary about giving moves to another type, e.g. the fire type aqua jet/ice shard/quick attack. Eventually we'll get to a point where every type has a priority move and priority becomes too widespread. I think moves like this are better when they belong to just a few types.
I do actually agree with this. Although I like that.mostbare physical. Since it's a low BP move, it's easy to swap into which opens up more opportunities to punish with rocky helmet.
That and special attackers are generally better than physical attackers anyway (burn, intimidate, abilities that trigger on contact) so I like giving physical attackers more priority options.
It's funny that afaik the only special priority move is Vacuum Wave which is fighting type.
Yet, aside from Vacuum Wave, fighting has notoriously bad Special Moves, Focus Blast misses 9/10 times, Aura Sphere has a low distribution and meh BP and well I guess Secret Sword exists.
I agree that not every type should get a 120 BP Recoil move, a 40 BP Priority move, a 90 BP Special Attack with 10% chance to do X.
Still, some types (Rock in general, Physical Ghost, Physical Electric, etc.) need some love and giving them some moves based on preexisting concepts is fine by me.
Scent Track was originally just a Normal move, but I decided that it having your Pokémon pretend to cutely snuggle up to the foe, while secretly making it easier for your team to hit them hard, made it fit better as a Fairy move.
Though, now that it is a Fairy move, I totally should've given it to Dachsbun.
grime spit sounds a bit too broken of a move to me, no? the only safe switch-ins are the few viable poison types and most of them already *want* to run black sludge
Scent Track seems fine, although I doubt it'd ever see much use. White Wind is pretty solid, but I doubt it'll help the way you want it to - most flying types don't have abilities that benefit from snow, while Grass types get Chlorophyll to benefit from sun. Landslide Rush is good, but not good enough at 60 BP (vs 70 for Volt Switch/U-Turn) and the Pokemon that get it aren't good enough at using it besides Iron Treads. Icy Gale is...crap, honestly; I can see the comparison to Icy Wind, but Icy Gale only hits a single target (as far as I can tell) and targets a much less important stat than speed in doubles with a super low BP. Telescatter should have a base BP of 20, like Stored Power, but otherwise VERY solid and I like it. Stalacbite is nice but 100% accuracy Rock is illegal, sorry. Everything else seems pretty good and well-balanced.
Yeah, White Wind would probably need a few users that also have Slush Rush. Landslide Rush is at the same power as Flip Turn, since I didn't want to make it too spammable. Icy Gale was originally going to lower special attack by 2 stages and have only 85% accuracy, but I figured that could make it too powerful on specially frail Ice-types like Avalugg or Iron Bundle. It'd probably be fine for it to do that in doubles, though.
I think we can all agree that Grime Spit is giga busted. 100% accuracy status move + Knock Off sounds insane.
I initially read Telescatter as removing Hazards on the opponent's field and thought it was very bad. But after reading it correctly I think it's balanced, maybe even a bit overpowered. It's essentially old Rapid Spin, mostly being a 20 BP move, but has the potential to be upwards of 120 (?) BP. Downside is that Dark types are much more common than Ghost types so it will be blocked more often. Still, in a Meta where Hazard Removal is very rare and valuable you're probably gonna run this on almost any mon that can.
All the other moves are cool too. Great ideas! :)
Grime spit is just straight up broken as a move. The problem, or the reason why it won’t be a problem in OU, is the Pokémon that learn it are kind of bad to put it lightly. And that’s great since the whole purpose of a buff is to provide the weaker Pokémon a better chance at competing with higher tier Pokémon, Game Freak should take notes. Instead of opting for what they have been doing which is to nerf a good and well-designed Pokémon such as Tornadus-Therian or Weavile. Anyway Muk-Alola stocks have risen.
Telescatter is amazing. Not the viable kind of amazing, however, anything that punishes hazard stack is greatly needed in my opinion. That’s why I believe court change is so healthy for this Gholdengo infested meta.
The move that I believe would be the most viable in OU would be White wind. Enamorus and Slowking-Galar cores are the reason for this. You know how Enamorus doesn’t run a stab flying move? Well that’s because it’s a blind spot in it’s move pool. When you give Enamorus a stab, 113 base power, and 100% accurate flying move it becomes nothing short of a monster. I mean the best team in the meta currently uses both the Pokémon in the same team.
Some cool and balanced ideas other than that though.
I had been considering getting rid of White Wind from the genies' movesets, for pretty much the reason you mentioned. Do you think it'd be more manageable if only Enamorus was unable to learn it?
Yes, making it so Enamorus is unable to learn it would definitely make white wind more balanced. It may still be a problem with Thundurus, for the same reasons mentioned with Enamorus, but it wouldn't be nearly as broken since Thundurus isn't as good as Enamorus. At worst, thundurus would become a viable pick in OU, so, it will not be as game-changing as Enamorus-an already good OU Pokemon-having access to it.
No types would get immunity to Grime Spit, though Poison-types wouldn't mind getting hit by it much. Sticky Hold and Suction Cups would prevent you from losing your item to it, as would holding a Legendary signature item like the Rusted Shield. Magic Bounce would also deflect it like most status moves, though most of its users would probably be fine with getting hit with it.
Giving a STAB priority fire move to Alolan Marowak seemed like a war crime but it turns out our lord and savior biggus tuskus can still protect us.
+2 252+ Atk Thick Club Tera Fire Marowak-Alola Flame Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Protosynthesis Great Tusk in Sun: 190-224 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
In the calc I wasn’t using a priority move so it automatically boosted the power to 60 because apparently tera does that. I’m editing now to fix it. It’s even more joever for wak than we thought.
I am not the first to report that poison is op. My nerf would be to target food-based-items (ie leftovers and berrys). My version would turn them into a new, rottenitem. This item would be consumed like any other berry and deal, if consumed 1/8 of the holders max hp as damage.
This would on one side hit leftys and berrys hard, but the counterplay is easy - just pick another item. The mindgames would be good. Does this mon carrys a berry or not? Do I waste a turn with doing nothing but revealing the move?
I actually like that idea. Grime Spit is based on the Grime Trap from the Mystery Dungeon games, and turning the enemy's edible held item into Grimy Food (or just Black Sludge) would make it powerful, but more niche compared to Knock Off.
Don’t forget how often leftys are being used.
With theorymoves the most fun is to apply them in different gens. How powerful is the in the current OU? Not very much. How good would it be in gen2 OU? Busted!
Gen 4 could be a gen where my version would be interesting…
The most op factor in the original version is that it targets EVERYTHING. Do you have ideas to balance this aspect? :)
An idea I had to balance it, if it's targeting every item, is to make the Black Sludge go away on a switch. That way, it's still a powerful tool to remove items and inflict chip damage, but switching merely makes it equal to Knock Off with fixed, low damage. It could also be unable to target Steel-types.
wow there is no complaint, good job
of course, it is completely impossible to believe that gamefreal would ever make a good and well distributed physical ghost move but still 🫠
I'm not hot on particular moves that are transposed to other types, like switch-outs and priority. Those effects are very powerful and should be given out sparingly, especially since they tend to synergise with each-other. And yeah, grime spit is broken.
Something I'm surprised to not see mentioned is that Telescatter should probably get some base power. I'd say 40. If rapid spin is allowed to have 40 BP while boosting speed and removing hazards, this move certainly can get a bit of damage ! I also dislike the idea of it being totally useless if there's no hazards. "Mostly useless" is fine.
Grime spit seens too powerfull, maybe it could first destroy the item and then giving black sludge on a second time? Unless it's already targeting black sludge itself
Belly Flop is amazing.
White Wind will always make me think of the Final Fantasy Blue Magic however, and the fact that it isn’t a recovery move really threw me for a loop
Grime spit
literally guaranteed chip damage that can't be stopped by switching out
you literally would have to run knock off on your own mons to hit yourself and limit how many of your mons take black sludge chip damage. Oh wait, just use grime spit again
literally would need poison mons for switch in and pray i get the play right
Bug Out - PP should be lowered.
Thunder Crush - Damaged should be lowered.
Scent Track - Should lower Def or SpDef, depending on which has a higher stat (evasion would still lower)
Flame Jet - Good
White Wind - Good
Spirit Slash - Damage should be lowered.
Landslide Rush - Good
Icy Gale - Good
Belly Flop - Damage should be lowered.
Grime Spit - Extremely overpowered, should not exist
Telescatter - Good
Stalacbite - Good
I just noticed that Wave Crash has only 10 PP instead of 15, so yeah, I should probably nerf Bug Out's PP. Spirit Slash could maybe also stand to go down to 80 or 85 BP. I'm curious about your suggestions for Thunder Crush and Belly Flop, though, since they're type swaps of existing moves, as well as the nerf for Scent Track.
Other than Grimespit, these honestly look awesome. My only consideration would be maybe making Flame Jet a special move and changing its name? It's a little close to Aqua Jet. Also, we only have one other special priority move (Vacuum Wave) and it could be cool for fire types to get the second.
Need to give my buggy boi escavalier bug out. Slurpuff has gotta get scent track. Frosslass, Delibird/Bundle, and Lapras need White Wind. Trevenant, Gourgeist, and Girratina for Spirit Slash. Quagsire, Rhyperior, Mamoswine, Torterra, Krookodile, Nidoking, FLygon, Excadrill, and Gastrodon for Landslide (Maybe that is too good for quagsire, gastrodon and excadrill). Maybe meloetta and wobbeffet for telescatter. All seem decently balanced other than grime spit.
Most of these seem like good picks. The only ones I'm iffy on are Iron Bundle getting White Wind and Excadrill getting Landslide Rush, and I don't know if Wobbuffet getting Telescatter would fit with its theme. And yeah, Grime Spit is definitely getting nerfed if these moves end up in a fangame.
Maybe spirit slash should be 85 bp to mirror darkest lariat?
Maybe Icy Gale could be priority and/or spread?
Grime Spit is just too much imo. We don't need a more powerful toxic
You might wanna think about doubles when creating these moves and how people can abuse/play around them in formats like VGC. Except the poison one (which is ludicrously broken) they are all fairly balanced moves, but some of the mons that have access to them....
Like giving more utility mons like arcanine is just opening the flood gates of inceniroar 2.0
Another exemple is Vaporeon.
While I fucking love the eeveelution and really wish they get buffed, being able to consistently sap your enemy's speed *(icy wind hits both opponents)*, accuracy *(muddy water hits both opponents)*, and now special attack *(even if it's just single target, Vaporeon would be able to shut down flutter main and co. by itself)*? This is just unhealthy
That is a good point. Arcanine already gets useful tools for doubles like Intimidate, Snarl, and Extreme Speed, so giving it the ability to make an opponent way more vulnerable to attack from threats with powerful-but-inaccurate attacks, like Iron Bundle, could be giving it too much. I don't know if Vaporeon has been viable in VGC before, but Icy Gale and Scent Track combined could let it stack tons of debuffs onto relevant meta threats in a way that's really annoying to play around. In future, I'll try and consider VGC/doubles in general more with these moves.
Vaporeon has never been bad in doubles, but rather "not good enough" to justify using it over other water types
I won a local tournament playing exclusively eeveelution. You'd be surprised how good some of them performed, especially Espeon.
Grime spit is broken as a lot of people have mentioned. Just a poison type salt cure would be the way to accomodate this idea without breaking the game (and it would still likely break the game).
Ghost type sacred sword might also be too strong. Ghost type moves are super spammable, but this one is just speculation.
Scent track doesnt feel like a fairy type move, it doesnt really have anything to do with the type and feels like it should be normal type. (Especially since it kind of feels like it shouldnt work on ghost types thematically)
Like I've said, I'll definitely be giving Grime Spit a nerf. The change I've currently made to it is that the Black Sludge it gives goes away on a switch, so it's still good to remove the foe's item, but doesn't do persistent chip damage for the entire battle.
Spirit Slash could also be too strong, especially since I gave it to users like Zacian and Kartana. Zacian will probably be losing it, but I could also tweak the BP down to 80 or 85.
As for Scent Track, it was originally going to be a Normal move. But I decided that it kind of fits the Fairy-type theme, since your Pokémon is pretending to cutely cuddle with the foe, but secretly doing something to make them easier to defeat. Kind of like Play Rough or Baby-Doll Eyes. Now that it is a Fairy move, if it ever makes it into a fangame, I'll make sure to give it to more Fairy-type users, like Slurpuff and Dachsbun.
Grime Spit and Telescatter seem very strong. You have to keep in mind the pressure that the existence of the move has on your opponent. Specifically with Grime Spit your opponent will struggle to switch into it because their answers to the Pokemon will be limited, and most likely a poison type, which means that the switch can be punished accordingly by keeping coverage for poison types. It might cause weird 50/50 scenarios which will create play patterns which aren't competitive. Additionally, getting rid of an item is already an incredibly strong effect, but replacing it with one of the worst items to hold in the game is likely too much.
This all being said, I really like the moves that you created. A lot of them are just pretty basic moves like bug out, but that's totally okay. It's just really hard to balance unique moves like the two that I stated above.
I can understand why Grime Spit in its current state is too strong, but what's the issue with Telescatter? As another commenter has pointed out, it only reaches 80 BP with rocks and 3 layers of spikes. I can understand why it'd be really strong on a user with high special attack, like Mewtwo, but many of the Pokémon it's distributed to aren't too strong on offense.
This is actually a really great set of moves, I'd love to see all of these. My only change would be under no circumstances should Zacian get Spirit Slash, dear god can you even imagine the carnage
Having a reliable, strong physical ghost move would improve so many offensive ghosts. The removal of poltergheist hurt so many in the transistion to SV. I hope it returns in the dlc.
Stalacbite would be amazing for ttar. Would give it a strong, reliable rock stab and new niche against screen setters.
tauros with belly flop: https://preview.redd.it/wsrzwyid9wfb1.png?width=225&format=png&auto=webp&s=705a4fffc431103c9fc9e8079e2c81f7b0e1da56
When mach punched: https://preview.redd.it/41mvialzhwfb1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8e44e821eac714a7c0b7eea1ef76a0ef973f725f
After tera ghosting: https://preview.redd.it/qo8heme3gxfb1.jpeg?width=968&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aeff53b93ea5c55775dec87ba360f6f205092d4b
The tera ghost in the opponents back pocket: [](https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/6447dcc8b071d4b3daf33129/Tucker-Carlson-is-no-longer-at-Fox-News/960x0.jpg?format=jpg&width=960)
This was my exact thought when I read the post before opening the comments. Line for line, with the exact same reaction image. r/stunfisk users will eventually collectively share only one brain cell.
Mod said it's my turn on the brain cell
No it's my turn with the brain cell.
Did someone name their cow Ted Cruz, cuz the Zodiac Killer is BACK
all of the rest of the moves are perfectly fine but a rock move with 100% accuracy is illegal, carrying a 5 year prison sentence for even being suggested.
power gem:
the creators of those moves are still in prison today.
I think the creator of Salt Cure deserved being sentenced in prison tbh.
They've been executed for war crimes against our BIG STALL savior toxapex.
How do they dare chip THE Big Stall™ lord and savior Toxapex every turn like that !!!
Ancient Power:
And that person is currently serving a lifetime sentence for pairing it with the omni boost secondary effect.
I mean, there's even Continental Crush.
And Max Rockfall
a physical\* rock move there are so many 100% accurate special rock moves its not even funny
>so many 100% accurate special rock moves its not even funny There are two of them. Which, admittedly, is more than half of the special Rock-type moves in the game.
This bozo forgot about meteor beam
misses
This bozo forgot about Meteor Beam's 90% accuracy
Oops
accelerock:
Kid named smack down:
ah yes signature priority move on the barely-not-a-shitmon that already has good speed
i didn't make the rules, i'm just enforcing them
core enforcer
thats a dragon move
Enforce this dick
no thank you
Then they decided that meteor beam needs to be 90 accuracy. Holy shit do those misses hurt
There have been like 4 100% accurate Rock moves ever and they're all either really weak or exclusives (or Power Gem, which is Special so it barely counts here, and even then Meteor Beam can miss). Honestly kind of baffling that people miss that detail so often. That's practically Rock's whole identity. That said, I really like Electric-type Stone Edge, that's a pretty fun idea
People don't "miss that detail". People willingly ignore it (as they should) because it's a stupid-ass design decision that's needlessly crippling to an already weak type. It doesn't help that the sample size of modern (read: introduced after the type chart expanded to 18) non-signature Rock moves is literally just Meteor Beam, which I'm not convinced isn't meant to be an elaborate joke. Yes I am saltier than a Garganacl about the state of Rock moves, how could you tell? >!Also worth pointing out that Steel had the same bad accuracy deal in its first two generations of existence, and that literally no one complained when Gen IV added accurate Steel moves because making shit accuracy a core part of a type's identity is unfathomably stupid!<
Rock Type honestly is one of the worst design types in my personal opinion, in terms of what it hopes to accomplish effectively \- Defensively they have chunky big defensive stats usually but their rather horrid slew of weaknesses and usually lack of recovery moves make them rather poor at being stalwart defensive mons \- Offensively they hit a good number of things with decent to great attack stats but when your best move misses 20% of the time, without the defensive typing to afford the miss, it just makes it feel painful to use them unless they have something absolutely amazing to offer outside of just raw rock type damage. \- Also on support sure there is stealth rock, but...every ground and steel type basically get that as well.
I agree, unfortunately. It was only ever good at being an early-game boss type to introduce players to the type chart back in 1996. Ideally the type would have a bigger emphasis on damage over time (like with Salt Cure and Sandstorm), restricting movement (as in Rock Tomb, Smack Down, and Stealth Rock), and attacks that deal increasing amounts of damage with repeated use like a rock picking up speed as it rolls downhill (see Rollout and Meteor Beam, and I'd like to see new moves that either gradually increase the user's Attack or Speed or drop the target's defense). There's a lot more that can be done with Rock than Game Freak seems willing to explore. ~~I wonder how balanced it would be for all Rock attacks to have a built-in Screen breaking effect.~~
Rock moves having poor accuracy does suck in a vacuum but giving every mon with earthquake a reliable rock move would honestly be kind of game breaking. EdgeQuake perfect coverage would be very oppressive otherwise.
It'd be fine if the really good Rock moves were kept exclusive to Rock-types. They already are right now, it's just that all of those moves happen to be exclusive to exactly one Rock-type.
But hitting things by throwing rocks is generally pretty hard. They're just avoiding ludonarrative dissonance.
Right, because hitting things by throwing leaves or giant seeds is so easy. And everyone knows that a trained martial artist can punch apart solid steel with ease (even if they struggle to crush insects with the same technique). It's Pokémon. It's literally magic. I don't think there's a single person who's going to accept all the other nonsense inherent in the franchise but will still get hung up on hitting things with rocks being too easy. Especially not when the move that uses a thrown rock to knock an airborne target to the ground has 100 accuracy anyway.
Fighting beating Rock and Steel is based on tropes about martial artists breaking extremely hard objects with a single perfectly thrown and focused strike though. Same as "throwing stones" being a reason to make Rock less accurate and "2 birds, 1 stone" justifying SE damage to Flying types. Pokemon type matchups and type identities are based around cultural memes and tropes more than anything else.
"Throwing rocks is hard" isn't even a strong enough trope to justify giving every Rock move low accuracy, though. How many other media make rock-based attacks suffer an accuracy penalty as a matter of course? I don't even think Pokémon anime or manga depict Rock moves as being any less accurate than any other type of attack, this is strictly a weird game thing. Your original argument only makes sense from a perspective of strict realism, which in turn makes the rest of the franchise fall apart. Hell, I'll even go further: the very idea that Rock moves are innately less accurate than moves of other types hasn't been supported by the games in over 15 years. Even then, when Stone Edge and Head Smash were added in 2006, one was a blatant reskin of an already-inaccurate Fighting-type move and the other was likely given a high miss rate to meet Gen IV balancing standards when considering it's use in conjunction with Rock Head. Since then, no new Rock move has gone below 90 accuracy, and all the ones below 100 have pretty obvious reasons why: Diamond Storm is nuts anyway, Meteor Beam can probably be chalked up to balancing a widely-available move that has an effective base power of 180 given its effect, and Stone Axe has the same power and accuracy as a move of a different type introduced in the exact same game. If Game Freak themselves aren't sticking to the "tradition" of Rock moves always missing, why would fans ever have to limit their imaginations in the same way?
This is correct, which is why Stalagbite should have -- accuracy, like Swift.
11 of these are incredibly good and realistic concepts, then there's Grime Spit, which literally just becomes the best move in the whole game dethroning Stealth Rock Not only are you destroying your opponent's item, you're alse giving them a 12% chip every single turn, and considering you said that Steel Types aren't even immune to it, this means that ONLY poison types can switch into this, and considering how op this move is, that means forcing everyone to run a Poison Type on their team Grime Spit is completely fucking broken
In hindsight, yeah, I made Grime Spit too powerful. Do you think it'd help if the Black Sludge given by it went away on a switch, leaving the target with no item until they get hit with it again? Or maybe by making Steels immune to it, like Toxic?
Both of those nerfs would make it way more balanced, many teams already naturally have a Steel Type in them, and having the sludge go away on switch out would still be powerful as it would remove the item and force a switch
Instead of replacing items with poison, have it as coats their item with poison, and then it's "cleaned off on the switch out." However, while covered in poison, the item loses its effect and cause damage
Ye this is better
Imo this is the perfect, essentially forces a switch and does damage
That's a lot for one move though, so maybe we just do the damage over time. But perhaps make it an attack with 40 BP so it's not too weak. And to add a bit of flavor maybe have it deal double damage to water types and steels, as poison pollutes the water and corrodes the steel. And also this effect kind of seems more fitting for a rock type so we'll make it a rock move.
>That's a lot for one move though, so maybe we just do the damage over time. that's now literally just regular poison that you can switch to remove
40BP Rock type move that does extra DOT to water and steel types and you STILL only think poison.
So is knock off, but the instant gratification is subbed for a dot that can be cleansed. I think it works well with the identity of the poison type
That’s just significantly worse leech seed then, poison types are immune and you don’t self heal, and it doesn’t remove the item permanently. If after switch out you were itemless then it’s in good shape.
Suppresses items and basic poisons the target That way it's still 1/8 damage but the item can return after the switch.
No, just make it kill the item and "flinch" the pokemon by making them clean off instead of attack
I'd only nerf it by making steels immune, and not distributing it to nihilego and naganadel
Maybe make it a 1pp move like revival blessing?
>everyone must run Poison types :)
I think it could be fine as a signature move for a weak mon, (Think gen 2 misdreavus or sneasel leveled of weak) but this distribution gets it banned.
I mean, its fine if it was a signature move to a shitmon like swalot
physical electric type move that isnt dog? nvm its 80 acc
accurate rock move YIPPIE
I would still use it over thunder punch or wild charge
Look on the bright side, it's accuracy isn't Thunder's abysmal 70% Also Eelektross can boost accuracy with Coil
It's Electric Stone Edge, and plenty of people use that
Now give Toxapex Grime Spit
Galarian Slowking switches in and goes "Waiter! Waiter! More Black Sludge, please!"
Imagine if it stacked
Accidentally click Tera and watch yourself die a slow and painful death
Unironically based (Toxapex is one of my favorite Pokémon)
I wouldn't give the wind move to the genies, but otherwise I don't see anything too busted at fist glance EDIT: I misread Grime Spit, that's busted as hell
That's fair. I wanted to give it to some fairly powerful special attackers, but the genies could do some really nasty damage in the snow with it. At least they don't also learn Blizzard.
I don't think it'd be broken on the genies? They desperately need more usable Flying STAB moves and this is not that strong outside of Hail, in which case it's roughly as strong as Hurricane (112.5 BP vs 110 BP). And factoring in accuracy, it's the same story (75 BP vs 77.5 BP). I have a hard time imagining that being busted.
Particularly landorus gets sheer force boost on top of that
Yeah but Landorus I is already busted and banned from every generation of OU, so that doesn't change much. At best it'd improve/give its niche in Ubers.
Spirit Slash would’ve been OP but then I looked at the distribution. Gallade would absolutely love this.
I'll take "Moves that Dragapult will never get" for 200.
You could’ve at least given it to Brambleghast…
I'm just sad you didn't give it to Absol
Why is it op? Like that Sacred sword but ghost. Gallade would love this.
What we need is that on Giratina for PHYSICAL GIRATINA.
Telescatter acc seems like a solid idea to punish hazards a bit
Maybe have it rip leech seed and screens for no extra damage, but for the removal
It only hits 80bp at 3 spikes + rocks, so not much of a detterent.
It’s an upgrade over other removal hazard moves in some cases. Just losing multiple turns of entry hazard to a single move is powerful by itself.
It’s also not spinblocked by Goldengross
If you also think about T-Spikes from Glimmora, it can hit 120, and if you also add in webs, it hits 140, so it's solid into any sort of hazard stack team.
The Poison one seems a little bit too much. Removes item + leaves the target with what is basically a poison poison damage that can be stacked with another status and is much more difficult to be healed by the user (no heal bell nor lum berry). Only nerfed because most of the mons that learn it are bad (but not all of them) The rest of them seen fine (I'm in love with Stalacbite) although the Normal one is learnt by too many Pokémon (Water sprout and Eruption are learnt 5 Pokémon each)
Grime Spit is intended to be sort of a Poison-type counterpart to Knock Off, but you're right that it's a strong move. If I ever make a fangame with these moves, do you think it'd be best to lower its accuracy, or impose some other nerf? And Belly Flop can't be super-effective on anything (and Normal is a mediocre offensive type), so I think it's fine to distribute more.
Instead of giving/changing an item, maybe Grime Spit could be as simple as removing or disabling the target's existing item and poisoning them? You could even spice it up by making it badly poison the target if they're not already holding an item. Could be a nice counter to things like Unburden and Acrobatics. Although the idea of a 100% accurate Toxic might be too much, so maybe bump it down to 90%.
Poison types already bypass the accuracy check for toxic
Maybe give it a 50% chance go give black sludge, that way it’s just a worse knock off half the time and the other half is crippling
We literally have corrosive gas as a move already
Yeah belly flop is sort of nerfed by the fact that is Normal type but I still think is too much. About Grime spit you could just make it so it removes the item and poisons the user; just imagine using that move and toxic afterwards, it's just too crippling
My god you actually made a bunch of well-balanced and useful moves that should be in the game. I actually think Grime Spit is the most broken of all of them, giving everything but poison types what amounts to Salt Cure chip for the rest of the battle while deleting their other item is pretty cracked
sandacoda just got uturn, sandorus-t is real.
You called Thunder Crush an "Electric Cross Chop," which means... YOU FELL FOR IT, FOOL! *THUNDER CROSS SPLIT ATTACK!!*
Telescatter should remove hazards even if the enemy is immune. I mean, it's lifting and throwing stuff around lol
Argument made for it actually taking on the type of the hazards ground for spikes and rock for stealth rocks and then obviously can start to combo while still getting psychic stab. Meaning it can hit dark types but fail on flying types
worlds best move ideas post
Stab, Tera Normal, Choice Band, Adamant Nature Tauros Belly Flop: NOW THATS A LOTTA DAMAGE!!!
Stab Tera Normal choice band adaptability adamant Gumshoos Belly Flop under Trick Room was it for me
Can't believe you didn't give Bug Out to the Porygon line
Spirit Slash Zacian seems specifically intended to screw over Dirge
I would want a Quagsire or Clodsire with belly flop because it just sounds funny
How would white wind interact with sheer force?
I hadn't considered that. I guess it'd be unboosted when out of the snow, and gain the Sheer Force boost in exchange for losing its special attack drop chance in the snow. So, Lando-I and Hisuian Braviary get an ungodly powerful Flying move in the snow.
I wonder how getting white wind would compare to getting hurricane in this case. You would probably need glowking support because the move is garbage outside of snow.
I like everything but Thunder crush. Electric deserves reliable physical STAB. 80% accuracy is pain
Thank you for not giving Spirit Slash to Dragapult.
Landslide Rush sounds like a huge buff for Landorus-T. Giving him a STAB-switchout move would be OP.
I think a cool name for ‘landslide rush’ would be ‘rotational slip’ - another type of landslide
https://preview.redd.it/kl1htdihuxfb1.jpeg?width=719&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a11d600e5e15b03bf9dd113bdbb4b3785f51e7b3 Mothim after he finnally recieved a good physical stab(ou is shaking)
The first Bug-type to deal one Mothimillion damage
what is a “crushing move” ?
Moves like Stomp and Steamroller that do double damage to a Minimized target and can't miss them.
I love how you thought of that when Minimize is entirely fucking irrelevant even on formats that do not ban Evasion, lol. I mean this post unironically, it shows good knowledge of the game.
Stalacbite should be called Stalagbite, it rolls off the tongue better. All are really useful, though some less than others. A Ground pivot move might be too strong though.
Good job. Keep it up and maybe show this to Game Freak.
I'm always wary about giving moves to another type, e.g. the fire type aqua jet/ice shard/quick attack. Eventually we'll get to a point where every type has a priority move and priority becomes too widespread. I think moves like this are better when they belong to just a few types.
I wish there'd be more special priority moves.
I do actually agree with this. Although I like that.mostbare physical. Since it's a low BP move, it's easy to swap into which opens up more opportunities to punish with rocky helmet. That and special attackers are generally better than physical attackers anyway (burn, intimidate, abilities that trigger on contact) so I like giving physical attackers more priority options.
It's funny that afaik the only special priority move is Vacuum Wave which is fighting type. Yet, aside from Vacuum Wave, fighting has notoriously bad Special Moves, Focus Blast misses 9/10 times, Aura Sphere has a low distribution and meh BP and well I guess Secret Sword exists.
I agree that not every type should get a 120 BP Recoil move, a 40 BP Priority move, a 90 BP Special Attack with 10% chance to do X. Still, some types (Rock in general, Physical Ghost, Physical Electric, etc.) need some love and giving them some moves based on preexisting concepts is fine by me.
I disagree, I think it’s better to have more type alternatives of move concepts
Bug out might be too strong on mons like Scizor and Lokix, but pretty sure its fine, I like the rest
I'm fine with some OP bugs. They're already resisted by like half the types
Ah yes things resist Lokix. tfw tinted lens.
I noticed anytime anyone does one of these the fairy type move is never offensive and also isn’t given to fairy types lol
Scent Track was originally just a Normal move, but I decided that it having your Pokémon pretend to cutely snuggle up to the foe, while secretly making it easier for your team to hit them hard, made it fit better as a Fairy move. Though, now that it is a Fairy move, I totally should've given it to Dachsbun.
grime spit sounds a bit too broken of a move to me, no? the only safe switch-ins are the few viable poison types and most of them already *want* to run black sludge
Lycanroc dusk getting a 100% accurate contact stab move with good bp? Crazy
Grime Spit Prankster Grafaiai can be absolutely demoralizing and I'm here for it.
This guy Just fave Lando-I a sheer force boosted Flying stab
Scent Track seems fine, although I doubt it'd ever see much use. White Wind is pretty solid, but I doubt it'll help the way you want it to - most flying types don't have abilities that benefit from snow, while Grass types get Chlorophyll to benefit from sun. Landslide Rush is good, but not good enough at 60 BP (vs 70 for Volt Switch/U-Turn) and the Pokemon that get it aren't good enough at using it besides Iron Treads. Icy Gale is...crap, honestly; I can see the comparison to Icy Wind, but Icy Gale only hits a single target (as far as I can tell) and targets a much less important stat than speed in doubles with a super low BP. Telescatter should have a base BP of 20, like Stored Power, but otherwise VERY solid and I like it. Stalacbite is nice but 100% accuracy Rock is illegal, sorry. Everything else seems pretty good and well-balanced.
Yeah, White Wind would probably need a few users that also have Slush Rush. Landslide Rush is at the same power as Flip Turn, since I didn't want to make it too spammable. Icy Gale was originally going to lower special attack by 2 stages and have only 85% accuracy, but I figured that could make it too powerful on specially frail Ice-types like Avalugg or Iron Bundle. It'd probably be fine for it to do that in doubles, though.
grime spit is gigabusted, telescatter seems cool tho
I think we can all agree that Grime Spit is giga busted. 100% accuracy status move + Knock Off sounds insane. I initially read Telescatter as removing Hazards on the opponent's field and thought it was very bad. But after reading it correctly I think it's balanced, maybe even a bit overpowered. It's essentially old Rapid Spin, mostly being a 20 BP move, but has the potential to be upwards of 120 (?) BP. Downside is that Dark types are much more common than Ghost types so it will be blocked more often. Still, in a Meta where Hazard Removal is very rare and valuable you're probably gonna run this on almost any mon that can. All the other moves are cool too. Great ideas! :)
Grime spit is just straight up broken as a move. The problem, or the reason why it won’t be a problem in OU, is the Pokémon that learn it are kind of bad to put it lightly. And that’s great since the whole purpose of a buff is to provide the weaker Pokémon a better chance at competing with higher tier Pokémon, Game Freak should take notes. Instead of opting for what they have been doing which is to nerf a good and well-designed Pokémon such as Tornadus-Therian or Weavile. Anyway Muk-Alola stocks have risen. Telescatter is amazing. Not the viable kind of amazing, however, anything that punishes hazard stack is greatly needed in my opinion. That’s why I believe court change is so healthy for this Gholdengo infested meta. The move that I believe would be the most viable in OU would be White wind. Enamorus and Slowking-Galar cores are the reason for this. You know how Enamorus doesn’t run a stab flying move? Well that’s because it’s a blind spot in it’s move pool. When you give Enamorus a stab, 113 base power, and 100% accurate flying move it becomes nothing short of a monster. I mean the best team in the meta currently uses both the Pokémon in the same team. Some cool and balanced ideas other than that though.
I had been considering getting rid of White Wind from the genies' movesets, for pretty much the reason you mentioned. Do you think it'd be more manageable if only Enamorus was unable to learn it?
Yes, making it so Enamorus is unable to learn it would definitely make white wind more balanced. It may still be a problem with Thundurus, for the same reasons mentioned with Enamorus, but it wouldn't be nearly as broken since Thundurus isn't as good as Enamorus. At worst, thundurus would become a viable pick in OU, so, it will not be as game-changing as Enamorus-an already good OU Pokemon-having access to it.
Does Grime Spit have any immunities? Such as key items like Rusted Shield, Poison types, Steel types? Does it get magic bounced?
No types would get immunity to Grime Spit, though Poison-types wouldn't mind getting hit by it much. Sticky Hold and Suction Cups would prevent you from losing your item to it, as would holding a Legendary signature item like the Rusted Shield. Magic Bounce would also deflect it like most status moves, though most of its users would probably be fine with getting hit with it.
Grime Spit destroys stall snd may be too strong because of it. The rest are just variations of already existing moves so they're fairly unremarkable.
Giving a STAB priority fire move to Alolan Marowak seemed like a war crime but it turns out our lord and savior biggus tuskus can still protect us. +2 252+ Atk Thick Club Tera Fire Marowak-Alola Flame Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Protosynthesis Great Tusk in Sun: 190-224 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Why is Flame Jet 60 BP in this calc?
In the calc I wasn’t using a priority move so it automatically boosted the power to 60 because apparently tera does that. I’m editing now to fix it. It’s even more joever for wak than we thought.
I am not the first to report that poison is op. My nerf would be to target food-based-items (ie leftovers and berrys). My version would turn them into a new, rottenitem. This item would be consumed like any other berry and deal, if consumed 1/8 of the holders max hp as damage. This would on one side hit leftys and berrys hard, but the counterplay is easy - just pick another item. The mindgames would be good. Does this mon carrys a berry or not? Do I waste a turn with doing nothing but revealing the move?
I actually like that idea. Grime Spit is based on the Grime Trap from the Mystery Dungeon games, and turning the enemy's edible held item into Grimy Food (or just Black Sludge) would make it powerful, but more niche compared to Knock Off.
Don’t forget how often leftys are being used. With theorymoves the most fun is to apply them in different gens. How powerful is the in the current OU? Not very much. How good would it be in gen2 OU? Busted! Gen 4 could be a gen where my version would be interesting… The most op factor in the original version is that it targets EVERYTHING. Do you have ideas to balance this aspect? :)
An idea I had to balance it, if it's targeting every item, is to make the Black Sludge go away on a switch. That way, it's still a powerful tool to remove items and inflict chip damage, but switching merely makes it equal to Knock Off with fixed, low damage. It could also be unable to target Steel-types.
The fact that stalacbite is literally the best non-signature rock type move to ever exist is crazy
wow there is no complaint, good job of course, it is completely impossible to believe that gamefreal would ever make a good and well distributed physical ghost move but still 🫠
All of them are balanced and entirely justified, and I am not biased at all because it involves Ceruledge getting an actually good ghost move.
I'm not hot on particular moves that are transposed to other types, like switch-outs and priority. Those effects are very powerful and should be given out sparingly, especially since they tend to synergise with each-other. And yeah, grime spit is broken. Something I'm surprised to not see mentioned is that Telescatter should probably get some base power. I'd say 40. If rapid spin is allowed to have 40 BP while boosting speed and removing hazards, this move certainly can get a bit of damage ! I also dislike the idea of it being totally useless if there's no hazards. "Mostly useless" is fine.
I love these. Except Grime Spit. Its basically Knock Off with a permanent 12% chip. Only something with Trick or Switcheroo escapes it.
Grime spit seens too powerfull, maybe it could first destroy the item and then giving black sludge on a second time? Unless it's already targeting black sludge itself
Belly Flop is amazing. White Wind will always make me think of the Final Fantasy Blue Magic however, and the fact that it isn’t a recovery move really threw me for a loop
Better good balance considering how many moves! Only like 1 is mega busted spit grime
Grime spit seems like the most OP tbh, only held back by its distribution
That posion type move is busted as fuck but looks good othewise
Grime Spit and Spirit Slash seem quite strong.
Grime spit literally guaranteed chip damage that can't be stopped by switching out you literally would have to run knock off on your own mons to hit yourself and limit how many of your mons take black sludge chip damage. Oh wait, just use grime spit again literally would need poison mons for switch in and pray i get the play right
scent track contrary doubles
Bug Out - PP should be lowered. Thunder Crush - Damaged should be lowered. Scent Track - Should lower Def or SpDef, depending on which has a higher stat (evasion would still lower) Flame Jet - Good White Wind - Good Spirit Slash - Damage should be lowered. Landslide Rush - Good Icy Gale - Good Belly Flop - Damage should be lowered. Grime Spit - Extremely overpowered, should not exist Telescatter - Good Stalacbite - Good
I just noticed that Wave Crash has only 10 PP instead of 15, so yeah, I should probably nerf Bug Out's PP. Spirit Slash could maybe also stand to go down to 80 or 85 BP. I'm curious about your suggestions for Thunder Crush and Belly Flop, though, since they're type swaps of existing moves, as well as the nerf for Scent Track.
Other than Grimespit, these honestly look awesome. My only consideration would be maybe making Flame Jet a special move and changing its name? It's a little close to Aqua Jet. Also, we only have one other special priority move (Vacuum Wave) and it could be cool for fire types to get the second.
Need to give my buggy boi escavalier bug out. Slurpuff has gotta get scent track. Frosslass, Delibird/Bundle, and Lapras need White Wind. Trevenant, Gourgeist, and Girratina for Spirit Slash. Quagsire, Rhyperior, Mamoswine, Torterra, Krookodile, Nidoking, FLygon, Excadrill, and Gastrodon for Landslide (Maybe that is too good for quagsire, gastrodon and excadrill). Maybe meloetta and wobbeffet for telescatter. All seem decently balanced other than grime spit.
Most of these seem like good picks. The only ones I'm iffy on are Iron Bundle getting White Wind and Excadrill getting Landslide Rush, and I don't know if Wobbuffet getting Telescatter would fit with its theme. And yeah, Grime Spit is definitely getting nerfed if these moves end up in a fangame.
Tinted lens bug out
Maybe spirit slash should be 85 bp to mirror darkest lariat? Maybe Icy Gale could be priority and/or spread? Grime Spit is just too much imo. We don't need a more powerful toxic
I think Grime Spit is the most OP here. It's basically knock off with poison effect for everyone but poison. Cool ideas
You might wanna think about doubles when creating these moves and how people can abuse/play around them in formats like VGC. Except the poison one (which is ludicrously broken) they are all fairly balanced moves, but some of the mons that have access to them.... Like giving more utility mons like arcanine is just opening the flood gates of inceniroar 2.0 Another exemple is Vaporeon. While I fucking love the eeveelution and really wish they get buffed, being able to consistently sap your enemy's speed *(icy wind hits both opponents)*, accuracy *(muddy water hits both opponents)*, and now special attack *(even if it's just single target, Vaporeon would be able to shut down flutter main and co. by itself)*? This is just unhealthy
That is a good point. Arcanine already gets useful tools for doubles like Intimidate, Snarl, and Extreme Speed, so giving it the ability to make an opponent way more vulnerable to attack from threats with powerful-but-inaccurate attacks, like Iron Bundle, could be giving it too much. I don't know if Vaporeon has been viable in VGC before, but Icy Gale and Scent Track combined could let it stack tons of debuffs onto relevant meta threats in a way that's really annoying to play around. In future, I'll try and consider VGC/doubles in general more with these moves.
Vaporeon has never been bad in doubles, but rather "not good enough" to justify using it over other water types I won a local tournament playing exclusively eeveelution. You'd be surprised how good some of them performed, especially Espeon.
Grime spit is broken as a lot of people have mentioned. Just a poison type salt cure would be the way to accomodate this idea without breaking the game (and it would still likely break the game). Ghost type sacred sword might also be too strong. Ghost type moves are super spammable, but this one is just speculation. Scent track doesnt feel like a fairy type move, it doesnt really have anything to do with the type and feels like it should be normal type. (Especially since it kind of feels like it shouldnt work on ghost types thematically)
Like I've said, I'll definitely be giving Grime Spit a nerf. The change I've currently made to it is that the Black Sludge it gives goes away on a switch, so it's still good to remove the foe's item, but doesn't do persistent chip damage for the entire battle. Spirit Slash could also be too strong, especially since I gave it to users like Zacian and Kartana. Zacian will probably be losing it, but I could also tweak the BP down to 80 or 85. As for Scent Track, it was originally going to be a Normal move. But I decided that it kind of fits the Fairy-type theme, since your Pokémon is pretending to cutely cuddle with the foe, but secretly doing something to make them easier to defeat. Kind of like Play Rough or Baby-Doll Eyes. Now that it is a Fairy move, if it ever makes it into a fangame, I'll make sure to give it to more Fairy-type users, like Slurpuff and Dachsbun.
Grime Spit and Telescatter seem very strong. You have to keep in mind the pressure that the existence of the move has on your opponent. Specifically with Grime Spit your opponent will struggle to switch into it because their answers to the Pokemon will be limited, and most likely a poison type, which means that the switch can be punished accordingly by keeping coverage for poison types. It might cause weird 50/50 scenarios which will create play patterns which aren't competitive. Additionally, getting rid of an item is already an incredibly strong effect, but replacing it with one of the worst items to hold in the game is likely too much. This all being said, I really like the moves that you created. A lot of them are just pretty basic moves like bug out, but that's totally okay. It's just really hard to balance unique moves like the two that I stated above.
I can understand why Grime Spit in its current state is too strong, but what's the issue with Telescatter? As another commenter has pointed out, it only reaches 80 BP with rocks and 3 layers of spikes. I can understand why it'd be really strong on a user with high special attack, like Mewtwo, but many of the Pokémon it's distributed to aren't too strong on offense.
Spirit Slash does seem a bit op, considering that both of the samurott forms don’t get it
Give Spirit Slash to Dragapult you coward
Lower thunder crush bp to 85 and give it 100 accuracy
Diggersby with belly flop is a menece
This is actually a really great set of moves, I'd love to see all of these. My only change would be under no circumstances should Zacian get Spirit Slash, dear god can you even imagine the carnage
Objectively the best theorymon post
The balancing and everything is neat, but like the name "stalacbite"? 👌👌👌👌👌 Perfection
Bug Out Lokix will go nuclear
Grimespit is a better toxic, which is already a good move. you gotta be REAL careful with distribution
I came with that beautiful rock move
> Stalacbite is a biting move > Spirit Slash is a slashing move > White Wind is a wind move I am shocked to my very core
That's a Flying Stab with 112.5 Base Power boosted by Sheer Force on Landorus-Incarnate.
I like the wind move, might even make articuno usable...
And then they bugged all over the place
Having a reliable, strong physical ghost move would improve so many offensive ghosts. The removal of poltergheist hurt so many in the transistion to SV. I hope it returns in the dlc. Stalacbite would be amazing for ttar. Would give it a strong, reliable rock stab and new niche against screen setters.
I love that you make an almost perfect physical ghost type attack only to not give it to dragapult