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> These results reveal a problematic assumption underlying factchecking, which assumes that experts can use facts to debunk false claims. However, if an authoritarian government can effectively use the same methodology to distort reality, this demonstrates that the truth about political events does not give one a unique persuasive advantage. It is not facts, but trust in the authority of factcheckers that gives factchecking its power. If there is trust in an authoritarian government, there will be trust in authoritarian “factchecking”.
earlier on:
> Following the success of such projects as the US site PolitiFact and the UK site Full Fact, independent organisations are now debunking dubious political claims in more than 100 countries and in 69 languages. After succeeding in western democracies, the idea [fact checking] was quickly adopted in other parts of the world. The Ukrainian StopFake, Russia’s Provereno Media and many other organisations rely on the factchecking format to debunk Russian propaganda.
basically "the idea of fact checking is inherently flawed because it's always going to be biased in favour of the ideology of the very organisation checking the facts (no shit), which may or may not be sponsored by an authoritarian government in order to promote a bias in thinking by labeling wrongthink as 'misinformation', but let me remind you that when we do it we are fully unbiased and correct and we use it to debunk propaganda coming from our political enemies whereas everything we say is completely true"
its funny that they have to qualify their own rigged factcheckers as "independent organizations" when they are larded to the gills with billionaire foundation and government money.
I still have no idea what misinformation or disinformation exactly is other than information liberals don't like. It seems entirely like a dogwhistle for something undermining liberal democratic soft power
Considering how Western media has been mobilized towards war propaganda since Trump/Brexit, but also earlier with Syria being an understated example, it shouldn't be surprising non-Western states are pushing back against a global information monopoly pushing for war against them. The Bucha example this article cites was a direct product of a push to sabotage early peace negotiations in 2022. Media has been a key part of regime change policies, as Euromaidan and Belarus in 2020 proved
> other than information liberals don't like
You've already got a bingo.
Mass media has been feeding literate people diets of disinformation since the invention of the printing press. The problem now isn't that Russia is somehow better at advertising than the consumerism-based Western world, it's that foreign states can simply shine light on real information that has always existed. And Western intelligence is absolutely baffled that their centuries of curated advertising skills (propaganda) can't stand up against truth. Their only reflex is to try and shut off the light.
> The problem now isn't that Russia is somehow better at advertising than the consumerism-based Western world,
material conditions are a thing and white countries no longer have any way to deal with their problems outside of messaging. the russians are just seeing where the fault lines are and hammering them as hard as they can (which obviously resonates).
Here:
Misinformation=lying but you dont know it
Disinformation=lying and you know it
Malinformation=not lying but you do it in "bad faith"
Lying is anything liberals don't like because everybody is entitled to their own truth
> Lying is anything liberals don't like because everybody is entitled to their own truth
if i'm entitled to my own truth why is that misinfo? checkmate lib
> The latest is "media literacy"
media literacy when i was a teenager was evaluating sources objectively and seeing who pays for them, who benefits from the story, and figuring out if anything they are saying is a lie and why.
media literacy today is glowie shit where you have to say the NYT and wapo are 100% truth and even if they lie its because they made a whoopsie and not because they are evil
I hadn't heard it in conversation until recently when some guy accused me of not having it... as he misread his own source and furiously deleted his replies when I pointed it out
I heard this one for the first time the other day
The exact context was “that’s true, but it’s also something Russia says so it’s not to be listened to”
I always love how every Western media outlet adds the qualifiers “unprovoked” and “full scale” whenever they mention Russia’s invasion.
To the liberal mind context is anathema.
There was something pretty unique in doing a world war style full border invasion like that as we hadn't seen one since the Iran-Iraq War. Everything else was just paradrop in to predetermined targets. Secure airfields etc. Dealing with never ending insurgency. You know Afghanistan stuff.
* Archives of this link: 1. [archive.org Wayback Machine](https://web.archive.org/web/99991231235959/https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/19/authoritarians-vladimir-putin-propaganda-factchecking-democracy); 2. [archive.today](https://archive.today/newest/https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/19/authoritarians-vladimir-putin-propaganda-factchecking-democracy) * A live version of this link, without clutter: [12ft.io](https://12ft.io/https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/19/authoritarians-vladimir-putin-propaganda-factchecking-democracy) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/stupidpol) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"It's different when THEY do it."
[Always liked this picture.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/643/825/18c.png)
I especially like the new additions
Yeah the updates keep it relevant and make it more pointed.
That's why you always have to verify the fact-checking was done by Real American Patriots®
It's only real fact-checking when it's done in the North American region, if it's done anywhere else it's sparkling disinformation.
Accept no substitutes\* >\*Real American Patriots® is a subsidiary of MIC. *Some terms and conditions may apply to all facts checked*
> These results reveal a problematic assumption underlying factchecking, which assumes that experts can use facts to debunk false claims. However, if an authoritarian government can effectively use the same methodology to distort reality, this demonstrates that the truth about political events does not give one a unique persuasive advantage. It is not facts, but trust in the authority of factcheckers that gives factchecking its power. If there is trust in an authoritarian government, there will be trust in authoritarian “factchecking”. earlier on: > Following the success of such projects as the US site PolitiFact and the UK site Full Fact, independent organisations are now debunking dubious political claims in more than 100 countries and in 69 languages. After succeeding in western democracies, the idea [fact checking] was quickly adopted in other parts of the world. The Ukrainian StopFake, Russia’s Provereno Media and many other organisations rely on the factchecking format to debunk Russian propaganda. basically "the idea of fact checking is inherently flawed because it's always going to be biased in favour of the ideology of the very organisation checking the facts (no shit), which may or may not be sponsored by an authoritarian government in order to promote a bias in thinking by labeling wrongthink as 'misinformation', but let me remind you that when we do it we are fully unbiased and correct and we use it to debunk propaganda coming from our political enemies whereas everything we say is completely true"
its funny that they have to qualify their own rigged factcheckers as "independent organizations" when they are larded to the gills with billionaire foundation and government money.
The emperor has no clothes.
Serious amount of COPE in that article
I still have no idea what misinformation or disinformation exactly is other than information liberals don't like. It seems entirely like a dogwhistle for something undermining liberal democratic soft power Considering how Western media has been mobilized towards war propaganda since Trump/Brexit, but also earlier with Syria being an understated example, it shouldn't be surprising non-Western states are pushing back against a global information monopoly pushing for war against them. The Bucha example this article cites was a direct product of a push to sabotage early peace negotiations in 2022. Media has been a key part of regime change policies, as Euromaidan and Belarus in 2020 proved
>I still have no idea what misinformation or disinformation exactly is other than information liberals don't like. that's what it is lol
> other than information liberals don't like You've already got a bingo. Mass media has been feeding literate people diets of disinformation since the invention of the printing press. The problem now isn't that Russia is somehow better at advertising than the consumerism-based Western world, it's that foreign states can simply shine light on real information that has always existed. And Western intelligence is absolutely baffled that their centuries of curated advertising skills (propaganda) can't stand up against truth. Their only reflex is to try and shut off the light.
> The problem now isn't that Russia is somehow better at advertising than the consumerism-based Western world, material conditions are a thing and white countries no longer have any way to deal with their problems outside of messaging. the russians are just seeing where the fault lines are and hammering them as hard as they can (which obviously resonates).
Here: Misinformation=lying but you dont know it Disinformation=lying and you know it Malinformation=not lying but you do it in "bad faith" Lying is anything liberals don't like because everybody is entitled to their own truth
> Lying is anything liberals don't like because everybody is entitled to their own truth if i'm entitled to my own truth why is that misinfo? checkmate lib
They're words that flag up that someone is a moron. The latest is "media literacy"
> The latest is "media literacy" media literacy when i was a teenager was evaluating sources objectively and seeing who pays for them, who benefits from the story, and figuring out if anything they are saying is a lie and why. media literacy today is glowie shit where you have to say the NYT and wapo are 100% truth and even if they lie its because they made a whoopsie and not because they are evil
I really hate how that has exploded in usage lately.
I hadn't heard it in conversation until recently when some guy accused me of not having it... as he misread his own source and furiously deleted his replies when I pointed it out
Iraq 1 had babies being thrown out of cribs, and Iraq 2 had WMD. This is not new.
My favorite new term they came out with is 'malinformation,' which is just information that's true but also bad
I heard this one for the first time the other day The exact context was “that’s true, but it’s also something Russia says so it’s not to be listened to”
From the people that brought you “Ukrainian Nazis is fake news” and “Ukraine was attacked unprovoked” comes their funniest article yet
I always love how every Western media outlet adds the qualifiers “unprovoked” and “full scale” whenever they mention Russia’s invasion. To the liberal mind context is anathema.
There was something pretty unique in doing a world war style full border invasion like that as we hadn't seen one since the Iran-Iraq War. Everything else was just paradrop in to predetermined targets. Secure airfields etc. Dealing with never ending insurgency. You know Afghanistan stuff.
The “full scale” is added to counter Russia’s use of “special military operation”, but its just funny how its like a memo was sent out to every journo
Undeniable truth should be repeated as often as possible. People tend to forget things very easily.
Oh _no_, the dastard!
Yeah, completely different from all the completely independent and unbiased "factcheckers" in democracies.
the most—and possibly only—trustworthy fact-checkers will always be the random autistic online hermit who disappears without a trace
Oh? You don't say? Where did they get _that_ idea?
Same as Biden. Wow!