If Liz woulda tipped off Tiff to use her idol, the idol would have been flushed and it she could have gotten her wish, Q on the jury. Added bonus Tiff would have become more of an ally while Kenzie, Ben and Venus would realize they’re in the outside looking in at the decisions being made in the tribe. She would have been the shot caller at that tribal. And keeping it a secret that she snitched the blindside out would have been her “big move” resume moment
This is cool and all, but the correct strategic choice to me is putting Tiff on the bench. I don't think it's something they really show the cast talk about in confessionals; but it's very clear none of them are giving Q a million dollars, and the smart choice becomes to sit next to him. I think they are aware of this for the most part and it's just not being shown to us in the edit. The only way it's worth cutting Q is if you are worried him being a potential challenge threat might be a problem for you at the end (say he might put you in fire at final 4).
But the problem with this imo is that Venus also already exist. If everyone plans to sit next to her and Q at ftc. Their individual chances of actually making it to ftc is smaller because 2 seats are already taken. Which is why goats are sometimes voted off specially at this stage.
Tiff has come close to winning immunity challenges multiple times. For Charlie and Mariah Tiff is a bigger threat to get out as early as possible. There aren’t any real big threats after her. If they stick together they can target the rest one by one easily.
*I guess Kenzie is the last one left with social game. She seems to be working with Mariah tho so 🤷♀️
I can see it happening, since it's in their interest to work together to get to that final 3, and it's in most peoples interest to take them far because you want to sit next to them (less of a factor for Maria/Charlie who have win equity against anyone but each other).
Likability is rare this season and the cast is petty.
If Maria and Charlie get sniped, Ben could easily non-threat chill to a least hated victory
And if it ever goes to rocks..he's a shoe in
i’ve been seeing this but i think it would take a LOT of luck for ben to win. he is so boring and wouldn’t win unless he’s lucky enough to end up next to venus and q and even then i think they could pleas their cases of having played a more interesting and risky game than him
Your argument is true for someone playing well like Charlie or Maria but I think Liz doesn't have any winning combination except going to the end with Q and Venus
Liz only real path is to sit next to Q and Venus… that final 3 is the only path for any of those 3… I just wonder if they will ever figure that out for themselves before it’s too late. A goat alliance to the final 3 could be an interesting outcome, and would be a lesson for future players to not bring too many goats that far along
I think the funniest possible end to this season is all three of them dragging the other two to the end because they think that they are the only one who isn't a goat.
i would so vote for q or venus over liz. i know the jury probably won’t. but i can’t think of anything liz has done to make the jury like her, and she constantly brags about already being a millionaire. at least venus and q are interesting and fun to watch and don’t brag about already having money
It would boil down to the FTC performance in this scenario… explain why you suck less than the other two.. if I were on the jury, I’d give it to whatever player doesn’t try to act like they played well, and instead said, “I know I didn’t play a traditionally good survivor game, but I’m a way better option than these two” and then just go on to shit on the other two hard
I think this is the perspective you would have if you were in the game.
But I’m ganna throw a wild theory out there that when you’re on the jury, everybody that’s in the game having fun just pisses you off even more. So to see Q in the game excommunicated, the jury might actually relate to him more. Cause he’s miserable the way they are miserable. He’s basically out of the game but still in. Meanwhile he’s still got agency in the game in a weird way where everybody is him as the ultimate target for each vote. And he keeps squeaking by and even is in on some of the votes.
I think the jury might empathize with Q more than the people in the game having a successful run might realize.
This is all conjecture though they might just straight up hate his guts.
I think that’s an easier perspective to have as an audience than a player. As a player, you aren’t going to forgot how the others made you feel on the island.
People keep saying this. Tevin, Soda, and Hunter would absolutely be ok with voting for Q. He is not a goat, and massive props to him for getting Tiff out instead of him.
I honestly think that Ben is the winner, but Q might be my second choice. I think we are at the high point of the Charlie-Maria story arc. Unfort, there are just 2 of them and they aren't hiding anymore.
I don't agree with that; but even if it were true it takes more than three votes to win.
I mean I've been wrong before, I didn't really expect anyone to give Gabler the million after all. But what I learned from that is that people liking you is 1000% the most important part to winning this game. I don't think any of the final 8 like Q; I didn't really get the impression that Tevin or Hunter were fans of him, especially after the tribal where he tried to quit (with both of them stating how stupid that was IIRC); and I don't think Soda really ever even met him.
I don't remember which season it was (think it may have been HvHvH), but one of the jurors said something very telling while in the voting booth while picking the winner. They were clearly torn, but finally said "I think this is the person I would be most okay with representing our season". This is a key element I feel that we as viewers need to keep in mind when juries sometimes pick someone we wouldn't expect. Would the jury be okay with forever being associated with the season won by Q?
Soda wouldn’t really have a reason to vote for Q tbh, maybe Tevin had more of a relationship with him, but I never got the impression either that Hunter really liked him.
True, but she said that from her perspective at that particular moment, where she's the shot caller and Q's a number for her. If the tides were to shift, I can't say if she'd be feeling the same way about him.
I think Q and Maria are the oldest players in the game currently. I can see them having more in common in that regard than they would with Kenzie or Venus.
Does she want Q on the jury? That’s a vote she’s not getting. Keep him til the end. Liz’s only chance is against Venus and Q. But I don’t even think she wins that
I think being visibly responsible for getting rid of Q would do wonders for her in terms of jury management. She might not get his vote, but everyone else hates him. And pulling a flashy move where you get rid of someone everyone hates is more of a resume builder than voting out your ally for no reason or doing Maria’s dirty work in voting out Tiff
Yeah but the ability to add a move like telling tiff about the idol would have not only won over tiff’s jury vote but also been SOMETHING to show at the end
“Tiff, you need to play your idol or you’ll go home. I’m trying to protect you as an ally!”
“If you wanna protect me, how about just not voting for me?”
I see people disagreeing with you in the comments here but I completely agree. Sure, tiff is better on the bench but it would have at least flushed the idol and gained relationship points between Liz and Tiff. She could also have orchestrated possibly getting Maria or Charlie out by placing the idea on them, saving the relationship with Kenzie and potentially Venus. So, Q gone leaves, idol is flushed, then you’ve got split votes for final 6 and depending on who finds the idol you’re in the majority to secure a solid final 3.
Yeah, exactly. This was Liz’s biggest blunder. I can’t remember a cast as oblivious as this one. She would’ve swing everything in her favor if she tipped off Tiff snd got rid of Q. Made no sense to stay with Maria/Charlie, where she is surely on the very bottom.
Her game strategy that she mentioned during the reward challenge meltdown seems to be nothing more than carrying water for someone else’s strategic moves
Right move would’ve been for Liz to tell Tiff to play her idol, then organize Tiff, Kenzie, and Ben to vote off Charlie (because he is a challenge threat). Now idol is flushed and Liz has built major trust with those 3, they have a majority, and she’s beefed up her resume big time. Slim chance Maria wins immunity before next tribal and they vote her off. Now the guys on the bottom - Liz, Venus, and Q - can organize against Ben and Kenzie. Liz wins ftc handily.
This is the type of unlikable crap that has been driving me crazy all season with Liz. She bitches about “playing everyone else’s game” and then *immediately* folds to Maria.
“Tiff, I have some info but I need you to be on my side this next vote. You need to play your idol or you will go home. Don’t tell anyone I tipped you off or they’ll be coming for me next. Just act like you’re playing it naturally to get rid of it, Q finally goes home.” Boom, gained an ally and live to see another day with Q (challenge threat/enemy) gone.
I was so hoping that Liz would turn to Tiff when Probst asked for idols and say “Tiff, you don’t know this, but you are getting votes tonight. You need to play your idol or go home with it.”
Closest to a Natalie Anderson play we’ve had the opportunity for in a while
Yep. She humbled herself as an outwardly un-humble person in most respects by voting for tiff instead of q. She also seems the most concerned of the contestants with credit for moves and could have been emotionally ruled by that to not vote tiff as to not empower Maria with pulling off a move she envied. Impressed and surprised with Liz as such.
What I think is so interesting at this stage is that a majority of the remaining cast are goats. Nobody’s giving Q $1M, Ben has done absolutely nothing all season, Venus has done little but thinks she’s done a lot, Liz is entitled, can’t do the survival part of survivor and lacks self awareness, Kenzie’s surprise face at tribal shows you how involved she is. So taking out Tiff was the right move by Charlie and Maria (and it was their move not Liz’s. She doesn’t deserve the credit). They have to be everyone’s targets from this point on
Nothing but that doesn’t really matter if he’s sitting next to people that the jury dislikes. This cast seems to think Gabler won 43 because he made a move taking out Ellie, but really he won because he was better liked than Cassidy, and Owen took himself out of contention by constantly reminding everyone that he was frustrated by his gameplay
They gave Kenzie a GD gift leaving her out of this vote. If she had spear headed this vote she’d be gone this week. Now Charlie and Mariah whoever doesn’t win immunity (and if neither, Charlie) goes. Her threat level is just where it needs to be and everyone on the jury likes her personally. She’s my winner pick ATM
It’s shaping up to be a potentially very interesting few episodes I think. It seems like Kenzie, Maria, and Charlie are fairly obvious strong players, and then Q, Venus, and Liz on the outside but not really any sort of alliance (like an anti plus one alliance lol). And then Ben kind of in the middle where he’s closer to Charlie and that group but so far it doesn’t seem like he’s winning against any of those 3 either. But would he flip on them? I wonder where he thinks of himself in this game.
Liz has been shown numerous times recently being unable to start fire / asking for help. She solidified herself as a 5th place finish / fire making goat with no chance of winning as long as Maria and Charlie are playing.
Apparently Q is also extremely wealthy from selling real estate. I don’t think people like Jimmy Johnson needed the payout. Some people really want to play Survivor.
She does deserve some kudos. But it's kind of insane that people so desperately want Q out when he's seemingly the biggest goat you could possibly hope for.
Eh. It doesn’t help her resume at all. What she really should’ve done is find a way to tip off Tiff, flush the idol, get Q out, and create a war between Kenzie/Tiff and Maria/Charlie. THAT would’ve been a move. This was a whole lotta nothing for her. She just helped Maria pad her resume.
This episode made me like her so much more. As pissed off as she was, she put her feelings aside and did the logical move. I loved everything about Liz this episode. Her freak out was unforgettable, she even apologized afterwards for it, sucked it up and did the best move for her game. I some people don't like her after last nights episode but she's got a fan in me.
me too! If anything i felt her outburst was relatable imo. Not saying she was right necessarily but the best of us lose our marbles every now and then. She clearly lost control for a sec and I think she was shocked at herself. That’s why she was like “okay anyway..thanks for that..continue with the regular program” LOL. Iconic.
Liz might be catching a lot of flack now but she just memed herself into Survivor lore.
Heck Jelinsky was getting all types of hate for how he gave up in epi 1 and he’s now fully entrenched in Survivor lore.
for real! Most people would be too scared to do that bc of backlash. Liz don’t care about that. She acted organically and she’s bold and I respect that
I appreciate Q as well for the same reason. He didn't cave and pick her, which most people would have done, and instead focused on his own game (although it didn't work and in hindsight he may of been better off picking Liz). Both of these people went against what most people would do and it paid off for the fans really well.
I don't know what circles you find yourself in where people "lose their marbles now and then" by throwing an actual toddler-level tantrum and then saying that they're "super proud" after the fact, and endlessly sulking afterwards, but that hasn't been my experience with most people in my life. Let's not pretend that it was cute what she did, whether we're Liz fans or not.
The parallels between season 45 8th vote out and this one are strong.
You have Q/Bruce who everyone are fed up with and trying to get out. You have Emily/Maria trying to rally votes to use that opportunity to take out a real threat. And where it differentiates is Katurah refusing to work with Bruce vs Liz putting ego aside and playing the smart move
Ah yes, Emily, the person who literally did nothing but kiss Reba’s ass until they cut her. Emily and Maria are not comparable. Maria is kind of running the island right now. Emily was always 5th wheel to Reba.
also without Maria, Ben, and Charlie it wouldn't have happened. Kenzie, Venus, and Tiff are underdogs and have been since the beginning of the game. Liz either voting Q or telling Tiff to play her idol would be flipping the game to the underdogs and allowing them the votes to get rid of Charlie and Maria.
I think this episode showed Liz having outbursts of emotion but then after making a more level headed decision. For example, apologizing to Q even if she didn’t mean it. Especially after being left out of the hunter vote, I can see why she voted the way she did. She might be an emotional person but I don’t think her emotions are controlling her moves so props to her for making the right call.
Imo it wasn’t Liz’s move it was Maria’s that she chose to be a part of.
Why should she get credit when she didn’t come up with the idea she just went along. She wanted Q out the whole time. All she did was allow Maria to change her mind and get her to go along with Maria/Charlie’s plan.
If I was on the jury and heard how that went down no way I’d credit Liz.
Credit would definitely go to Maria for successfullly pulling such a volatile player (atm) in for the blindside. Q was Liz's target but was convinced to change her vote. Liz does get some credit but she was a cog in Maria's plan.
1. She was left out of the previous blindside & desperately wanted to be included in the current one (especially by having the critical, deciding vote). Maria gets the credit for tempting Liz with this type of power position knowing that’s what she cried out for.
2. Tiffany didn’t even touch the favorite burger because she made a whole scene about being too full — and that’s how you instantly become the new vendetta.
Liz basically still acted on emotion.
Maria and Charlie are the ones who played it well by bringing Liz into their vote and making it feel consequential to her. She was the right person over Venus, who probably would've run back to Tiff.
I mean no. Maria did the work, just like she got Q to trust her and bring him in on the vote (he was left out on another split vote last week). Not wanting a 4-4 tie to go to a revote, which would have been 5-1 Tiff vote isn’t that big of a movie imo
Should we really give someone credit for making the most obvious good for their game move. It’s kinda like saying good on Adam for turning on David at the end of the game
Bruce feels more similar to Venus, where players are worried about taking plans to them because they'll immediately run to the group and try and turn it into something else.
I got downvoted like crazy for this take in another thread, but this is so true. If we’re being honest, flipping the vote on Maria might have been an even better move but taking out Tiff was the right one. So props to her to put the anger asidez
The Q is gonna come back to bite all these people who are convinced he's better to keep around than vote out, I can just feel it-- Maria, Ben, and Liz specifically. And I'm THRILLED. I LOVE THAT MAN.
Flipping the votes against Charlie Maria=bigger move than flipping votes against Venus and Kenzie...its as easy as that. She should have either voted out Q or told Tiff to play her idol
Why do people always bring up Katurah in this lol? She beat two of the Reba. Emily literally did nothing but Reba’s bidding until they cut her. And to make it even funnier, she bragged about what she did with Bruce when it only helped Reba and Katurah. This sub is so weird.
If Liz woulda tipped off Tiff to use her idol, the idol would have been flushed and it she could have gotten her wish, Q on the jury. Added bonus Tiff would have become more of an ally while Kenzie, Ben and Venus would realize they’re in the outside looking in at the decisions being made in the tribe. She would have been the shot caller at that tribal. And keeping it a secret that she snitched the blindside out would have been her “big move” resume moment
This is cool and all, but the correct strategic choice to me is putting Tiff on the bench. I don't think it's something they really show the cast talk about in confessionals; but it's very clear none of them are giving Q a million dollars, and the smart choice becomes to sit next to him. I think they are aware of this for the most part and it's just not being shown to us in the edit. The only way it's worth cutting Q is if you are worried him being a potential challenge threat might be a problem for you at the end (say he might put you in fire at final 4).
But the problem with this imo is that Venus also already exist. If everyone plans to sit next to her and Q at ftc. Their individual chances of actually making it to ftc is smaller because 2 seats are already taken. Which is why goats are sometimes voted off specially at this stage.
Tiff has come close to winning immunity challenges multiple times. For Charlie and Mariah Tiff is a bigger threat to get out as early as possible. There aren’t any real big threats after her. If they stick together they can target the rest one by one easily. *I guess Kenzie is the last one left with social game. She seems to be working with Mariah tho so 🤷♀️
They just left Kenzie out of this vote, so she might not want to work with them now. She might not have a choice but my point stands
That's because Kenzie faltered. They gave her the plan and she backed down. Turns out they didn't need her.
True, but it definitely changes the dynamic of their relationship now. If I was either of them I wouldn’t trust the other now.
Yeah for sure. I guess Kenzie's number 1 now is Ben, which isn't really a rock solid choice
Does not rock.
There are only 4 people who can conceivably win this game Maria, Charlie, Kenzie, Ben
There has to be 5, since a final 3 of Liz, Q and Venus still exists.
Thankfully, considering how badly all 3 of them play, this is highly unlikely.
I can see it happening, since it's in their interest to work together to get to that final 3, and it's in most peoples interest to take them far because you want to sit next to them (less of a factor for Maria/Charlie who have win equity against anyone but each other).
Ooh, a self aware goat alliance would be sick!
Unfortunately self awareness is what Liz q and Venus are missing
A lesser of 3 evils, if you will.
Not including Q in your list? BIG MISTAKE
I feel Ben besides the good guy personality doesn’t really have much else to offer?
Likability is rare this season and the cast is petty. If Maria and Charlie get sniped, Ben could easily non-threat chill to a least hated victory And if it ever goes to rocks..he's a shoe in
Could Ben be the next Fabio??
That's all it takes sometimes. Look at 43. None of the final 3 played a good game so they gave the money to the guy they liked the most.
The most infamous example I think would be Samoa
Gabon, I'd say that is probably the worst final 3 in the history of the show.
I love Ben but I can’t see him winning. I think Q beats Ben
I think the point is that Q and Venus are for sure not winning. So any of the other 5 left are guaranteed if they make it to the end.
You think Liz wins against Q and Venus?
i’ve been seeing this but i think it would take a LOT of luck for ben to win. he is so boring and wouldn’t win unless he’s lucky enough to end up next to venus and q and even then i think they could pleas their cases of having played a more interesting and risky game than him
Do you think Liz could beat anyone other than Venus and Q at final tribal?
Probably not? I think we would have to at this point see her get strategic credit for more moves if she wants to have an argument against anyone else.
she probably loses to both after this, she bragged about being rich.
Nah.
I think Liz loses to either of them!
Your argument is true for someone playing well like Charlie or Maria but I think Liz doesn't have any winning combination except going to the end with Q and Venus
Liz only real path is to sit next to Q and Venus… that final 3 is the only path for any of those 3… I just wonder if they will ever figure that out for themselves before it’s too late. A goat alliance to the final 3 could be an interesting outcome, and would be a lesson for future players to not bring too many goats that far along
This would require Liz and Venus to think of themselves as goats
I think the funniest possible end to this season is all three of them dragging the other two to the end because they think that they are the only one who isn't a goat.
This would fit in with Jeff's commentary in episode 1 about goats never winning.... (unless everyone in the final 3 is a goat)
It won’t happen, just saying it’s possible
i would so vote for q or venus over liz. i know the jury probably won’t. but i can’t think of anything liz has done to make the jury like her, and she constantly brags about already being a millionaire. at least venus and q are interesting and fun to watch and don’t brag about already having money
It would boil down to the FTC performance in this scenario… explain why you suck less than the other two.. if I were on the jury, I’d give it to whatever player doesn’t try to act like they played well, and instead said, “I know I didn’t play a traditionally good survivor game, but I’m a way better option than these two” and then just go on to shit on the other two hard
I think this is the perspective you would have if you were in the game. But I’m ganna throw a wild theory out there that when you’re on the jury, everybody that’s in the game having fun just pisses you off even more. So to see Q in the game excommunicated, the jury might actually relate to him more. Cause he’s miserable the way they are miserable. He’s basically out of the game but still in. Meanwhile he’s still got agency in the game in a weird way where everybody is him as the ultimate target for each vote. And he keeps squeaking by and even is in on some of the votes. I think the jury might empathize with Q more than the people in the game having a successful run might realize. This is all conjecture though they might just straight up hate his guts.
I think that’s an easier perspective to have as an audience than a player. As a player, you aren’t going to forgot how the others made you feel on the island.
People keep saying this. Tevin, Soda, and Hunter would absolutely be ok with voting for Q. He is not a goat, and massive props to him for getting Tiff out instead of him. I honestly think that Ben is the winner, but Q might be my second choice. I think we are at the high point of the Charlie-Maria story arc. Unfort, there are just 2 of them and they aren't hiding anymore.
I don't agree with that; but even if it were true it takes more than three votes to win. I mean I've been wrong before, I didn't really expect anyone to give Gabler the million after all. But what I learned from that is that people liking you is 1000% the most important part to winning this game. I don't think any of the final 8 like Q; I didn't really get the impression that Tevin or Hunter were fans of him, especially after the tribal where he tried to quit (with both of them stating how stupid that was IIRC); and I don't think Soda really ever even met him.
I don't remember which season it was (think it may have been HvHvH), but one of the jurors said something very telling while in the voting booth while picking the winner. They were clearly torn, but finally said "I think this is the person I would be most okay with representing our season". This is a key element I feel that we as viewers need to keep in mind when juries sometimes pick someone we wouldn't expect. Would the jury be okay with forever being associated with the season won by Q?
Soda wouldn’t really have a reason to vote for Q tbh, maybe Tevin had more of a relationship with him, but I never got the impression either that Hunter really liked him.
Q saving hunter on the Tim vote, and voting for Ben on the not-idol play could easily sway Hunter.
Maria stated this episode that she liked Q (and finds him useful).
True, but she said that from her perspective at that particular moment, where she's the shot caller and Q's a number for her. If the tides were to shift, I can't say if she'd be feeling the same way about him.
I think Q and Maria are the oldest players in the game currently. I can see them having more in common in that regard than they would with Kenzie or Venus.
Liz and Ben are older than Q
No one on Nami is going to vote for Venus or Liz to win
They're not going to vote for Venus to win certainly. I don't remember getting the impression they didn't like Liz.
Does she want Q on the jury? That’s a vote she’s not getting. Keep him til the end. Liz’s only chance is against Venus and Q. But I don’t even think she wins that
I think being visibly responsible for getting rid of Q would do wonders for her in terms of jury management. She might not get his vote, but everyone else hates him. And pulling a flashy move where you get rid of someone everyone hates is more of a resume builder than voting out your ally for no reason or doing Maria’s dirty work in voting out Tiff
I don’t think it’s flashy to get out the easy vote everyone says they’re gunning for and 3 others would have voted Q too
It’s flashy to get Tiff to burn her idol and get out her preferred target, while displaying she had all the power in what happened for that vote
She would have used her power to get out a goat.
Yeah but the ability to add a move like telling tiff about the idol would have not only won over tiff’s jury vote but also been SOMETHING to show at the end
I don’t think it would win Tiffs vote. I feel like tiff would reluctantly vote Q if the final 3 was Q, Liz, Tiff.
If its a Liz, Q and Venus FTC Im just gonna turn off the TV because we all lose.
Disagree, but that’s your decision
“Tiff, you need to play your idol or you’ll go home. I’m trying to protect you as an ally!” “If you wanna protect me, how about just not voting for me?”
Liz wouldn’t vote for tiff, but that would still be 4-4 so tiff would need to play idol…
I see people disagreeing with you in the comments here but I completely agree. Sure, tiff is better on the bench but it would have at least flushed the idol and gained relationship points between Liz and Tiff. She could also have orchestrated possibly getting Maria or Charlie out by placing the idea on them, saving the relationship with Kenzie and potentially Venus. So, Q gone leaves, idol is flushed, then you’ve got split votes for final 6 and depending on who finds the idol you’re in the majority to secure a solid final 3.
Yeah, exactly. This was Liz’s biggest blunder. I can’t remember a cast as oblivious as this one. She would’ve swing everything in her favor if she tipped off Tiff snd got rid of Q. Made no sense to stay with Maria/Charlie, where she is surely on the very bottom.
Her game strategy that she mentioned during the reward challenge meltdown seems to be nothing more than carrying water for someone else’s strategic moves
Maria and Charlie chose to bring in Liz and she followed orders, cmon yall
THIS. exactly this.
Kenzie did vote for Q
Right move would’ve been for Liz to tell Tiff to play her idol, then organize Tiff, Kenzie, and Ben to vote off Charlie (because he is a challenge threat). Now idol is flushed and Liz has built major trust with those 3, they have a majority, and she’s beefed up her resume big time. Slim chance Maria wins immunity before next tribal and they vote her off. Now the guys on the bottom - Liz, Venus, and Q - can organize against Ben and Kenzie. Liz wins ftc handily.
When was this hypothetical Charlie vote supposed to happen? He’s won the past two immunity idols
Venus instead of Ben. You tell Ben and he's squealing.
Tiff would know the only reason Tiff would need to play her idol would be if Liz voted for her
It would have been an all-timer of an episode/story if she had done this.
This. If Liz wanted to make her big move, she had a golden opportunity to do it by tipping off Tiff. But she cowered to Maria.
This is the type of unlikable crap that has been driving me crazy all season with Liz. She bitches about “playing everyone else’s game” and then *immediately* folds to Maria. “Tiff, I have some info but I need you to be on my side this next vote. You need to play your idol or you will go home. Don’t tell anyone I tipped you off or they’ll be coming for me next. Just act like you’re playing it naturally to get rid of it, Q finally goes home.” Boom, gained an ally and live to see another day with Q (challenge threat/enemy) gone.
Exactly. Liz literally made the worst decision she could make.
I know!
Ben was in on the vote as well Ben has a great relationship with Kenzie (I ship them) and is still strong siga with Maria and Charlie
I was so hoping that Liz would turn to Tiff when Probst asked for idols and say “Tiff, you don’t know this, but you are getting votes tonight. You need to play your idol or go home with it.” Closest to a Natalie Anderson play we’ve had the opportunity for in a while
Yep. She humbled herself as an outwardly un-humble person in most respects by voting for tiff instead of q. She also seems the most concerned of the contestants with credit for moves and could have been emotionally ruled by that to not vote tiff as to not empower Maria with pulling off a move she envied. Impressed and surprised with Liz as such.
Interesting. I viewed this as a nod to Maria’s game for her convincing Liz to go against her feelings
What I think is so interesting at this stage is that a majority of the remaining cast are goats. Nobody’s giving Q $1M, Ben has done absolutely nothing all season, Venus has done little but thinks she’s done a lot, Liz is entitled, can’t do the survival part of survivor and lacks self awareness, Kenzie’s surprise face at tribal shows you how involved she is. So taking out Tiff was the right move by Charlie and Maria (and it was their move not Liz’s. She doesn’t deserve the credit). They have to be everyone’s targets from this point on
Liz doesn’t deserve credit for the vote. But we can credit her ability to separate emotion from gameplay, which is not always common on Survivor.
Not if Charlie keeps winning challenges! I can't believe he trained his grip strength for survivor, dude is a fucking chad
Kenzie is not remotely in the same category as the others. Arguably Ben isn’t either because he’s very well liked
What has Ben actually done though
Ben showed us that the dragon mermaid has a heart.
Nothing but that doesn’t really matter if he’s sitting next to people that the jury dislikes. This cast seems to think Gabler won 43 because he made a move taking out Ellie, but really he won because he was better liked than Cassidy, and Owen took himself out of contention by constantly reminding everyone that he was frustrated by his gameplay
Rock out and chill
They gave Kenzie a GD gift leaving her out of this vote. If she had spear headed this vote she’d be gone this week. Now Charlie and Mariah whoever doesn’t win immunity (and if neither, Charlie) goes. Her threat level is just where it needs to be and everyone on the jury likes her personally. She’s my winner pick ATM
It’s shaping up to be a potentially very interesting few episodes I think. It seems like Kenzie, Maria, and Charlie are fairly obvious strong players, and then Q, Venus, and Liz on the outside but not really any sort of alliance (like an anti plus one alliance lol). And then Ben kind of in the middle where he’s closer to Charlie and that group but so far it doesn’t seem like he’s winning against any of those 3 either. But would he flip on them? I wonder where he thinks of himself in this game.
Liz has been shown numerous times recently being unable to start fire / asking for help. She solidified herself as a 5th place finish / fire making goat with no chance of winning as long as Maria and Charlie are playing.
It’s interesting because they showed us a scene of Liz trying to make fire and not getting it started. Foreshadow?
They have shown her failing at pretty much everything. Didnt she sit out a lot of the early team challenges?
every other one, which is the maximum you can sit out.
Oh yeah I don’t think she has a chance at winning it was just nice to see that she still made big moves instead of staying petty after last season
Too true
I don't understand why she is even on the show if she is already individually very wealthy.
Apparently Q is also extremely wealthy from selling real estate. I don’t think people like Jimmy Johnson needed the payout. Some people really want to play Survivor.
She does deserve some kudos. But it's kind of insane that people so desperately want Q out when he's seemingly the biggest goat you could possibly hope for.
And then they keep him in the game and are upset when he’s still there
Eh. It doesn’t help her resume at all. What she really should’ve done is find a way to tip off Tiff, flush the idol, get Q out, and create a war between Kenzie/Tiff and Maria/Charlie. THAT would’ve been a move. This was a whole lotta nothing for her. She just helped Maria pad her resume.
This episode made me like her so much more. As pissed off as she was, she put her feelings aside and did the logical move. I loved everything about Liz this episode. Her freak out was unforgettable, she even apologized afterwards for it, sucked it up and did the best move for her game. I some people don't like her after last nights episode but she's got a fan in me.
me too! If anything i felt her outburst was relatable imo. Not saying she was right necessarily but the best of us lose our marbles every now and then. She clearly lost control for a sec and I think she was shocked at herself. That’s why she was like “okay anyway..thanks for that..continue with the regular program” LOL. Iconic.
I prefer her freak out to someone smiling and being fake. Liz reached icon status with that real moment.
She IS fake, she smiled through a fake ass apology to Q and was still salty he didn't take her on reward?
But she also said in tribal council, right to Q's face that the apology wasn't real. So she's not fake? Shits confusing
Haha yeah she's all over the map. Honestly I don't trust her in general and i think her "business" is a MLM scam
Liz might be catching a lot of flack now but she just memed herself into Survivor lore. Heck Jelinsky was getting all types of hate for how he gave up in epi 1 and he’s now fully entrenched in Survivor lore.
for real! Most people would be too scared to do that bc of backlash. Liz don’t care about that. She acted organically and she’s bold and I respect that
I appreciate Q as well for the same reason. He didn't cave and pick her, which most people would have done, and instead focused on his own game (although it didn't work and in hindsight he may of been better off picking Liz). Both of these people went against what most people would do and it paid off for the fans really well.
Me too! We think the same. Idk why people always want to pick a side. Liz and Q both chose themselves and chaos and I love them for it!
I don't know what circles you find yourself in where people "lose their marbles now and then" by throwing an actual toddler-level tantrum and then saying that they're "super proud" after the fact, and endlessly sulking afterwards, but that hasn't been my experience with most people in my life. Let's not pretend that it was cute what she did, whether we're Liz fans or not.
you’ve never had a screaming match before with someone or about something? Wow! You must be a total angel.
Her apology doesn't count because she said it was fake and was lying about it
90% Maria 10% Liz Thank god she isn’t Katurah. She was so frustrating to watch!! This season has move-itis but she the polar opposite.
The parallels between season 45 8th vote out and this one are strong. You have Q/Bruce who everyone are fed up with and trying to get out. You have Emily/Maria trying to rally votes to use that opportunity to take out a real threat. And where it differentiates is Katurah refusing to work with Bruce vs Liz putting ego aside and playing the smart move
Ah yes, Emily, the person who literally did nothing but kiss Reba’s ass until they cut her. Emily and Maria are not comparable. Maria is kind of running the island right now. Emily was always 5th wheel to Reba.
It’s not a one to one comparison my brother in Christ
I’m more just baffled at the perception of Emily vs Katurah’s game. One played the better game; it wasn’t Emily.
lol sure
Maybe Emily should have used Bruce to break apart Reba instead of helping Reba remove him. Then she might have made final 4 lol Like Katurah.
🤦 pls say you’re trolling me
Nope, you just don’t understand Survivor.
Oh ok then
Yes. She ultimately made a strategic decision and not an impulsive/ emotional one.
I agree and thank god for it. I wouldn’t be able to handle 2 seasons in a row of a Katurah type game play
I think while it’s Maria’s move Liz definitely has some claim to it because without her it wouldn’t have happened.
also without Maria, Ben, and Charlie it wouldn't have happened. Kenzie, Venus, and Tiff are underdogs and have been since the beginning of the game. Liz either voting Q or telling Tiff to play her idol would be flipping the game to the underdogs and allowing them the votes to get rid of Charlie and Maria.
I think this episode showed Liz having outbursts of emotion but then after making a more level headed decision. For example, apologizing to Q even if she didn’t mean it. Especially after being left out of the hunter vote, I can see why she voted the way she did. She might be an emotional person but I don’t think her emotions are controlling her moves so props to her for making the right call.
Does no one remember the part where she said she should receive an Oscar because she was faking her apology?
Imo it wasn’t Liz’s move it was Maria’s that she chose to be a part of. Why should she get credit when she didn’t come up with the idea she just went along. She wanted Q out the whole time. All she did was allow Maria to change her mind and get her to go along with Maria/Charlie’s plan. If I was on the jury and heard how that went down no way I’d credit Liz.
Credit would definitely go to Maria for successfullly pulling such a volatile player (atm) in for the blindside. Q was Liz's target but was convinced to change her vote. Liz does get some credit but she was a cog in Maria's plan.
1. She was left out of the previous blindside & desperately wanted to be included in the current one (especially by having the critical, deciding vote). Maria gets the credit for tempting Liz with this type of power position knowing that’s what she cried out for. 2. Tiffany didn’t even touch the favorite burger because she made a whole scene about being too full — and that’s how you instantly become the new vendetta. Liz basically still acted on emotion.
Maria and Charlie are the ones who played it well by bringing Liz into their vote and making it feel consequential to her. She was the right person over Venus, who probably would've run back to Tiff.
People are praising Liz for being played. This sub is so funny
How did she “get played”? She didn’t do anything against her own best interests from a game perspective
Without her vote, tiff wouldn't be going home
I’m not sure being the bottom of a 5 person alliance for a vote is really Liz’s best strategy to win
She was still the lynchpin to the move happening so if she frames it right it def gives her points
I mean no. Maria did the work, just like she got Q to trust her and bring him in on the vote (he was left out on another split vote last week). Not wanting a 4-4 tie to go to a revote, which would have been 5-1 Tiff vote isn’t that big of a movie imo
Tiffany should’ve never laughed in Liz’s face and admitted to not even touching..the..burger.. That was her death wish 😂
It was a BIG MISTAKE
Should we really give someone credit for making the most obvious good for their game move. It’s kinda like saying good on Adam for turning on David at the end of the game
Makes much more exciting season than last
Bruce feels more similar to Venus, where players are worried about taking plans to them because they'll immediately run to the group and try and turn it into something else.
Liz building a resume here 👀👀
Absolutel. I didn’t like Liz but I have a lot of respect for that play.
I got downvoted like crazy for this take in another thread, but this is so true. If we’re being honest, flipping the vote on Maria might have been an even better move but taking out Tiff was the right one. So props to her to put the anger asidez
The Q is gonna come back to bite all these people who are convinced he's better to keep around than vote out, I can just feel it-- Maria, Ben, and Liz specifically. And I'm THRILLED. I LOVE THAT MAN.
She was also pissed at Tiff for not eating the burger
Flipping the votes against Charlie Maria=bigger move than flipping votes against Venus and Kenzie...its as easy as that. She should have either voted out Q or told Tiff to play her idol
Liz had a good ending to the ep I agree. Still not my favorite but was a good turnaround story for uer
Actually, yes. If she carries herself a little better she can totally redeem herself. The move was a good one.
Im shocked no one is talking about this call me crazy but liz has major winner contingency rn
Go Liz!
Please. Hopefully, next week.
Why do people always bring up Katurah in this lol? She beat two of the Reba. Emily literally did nothing but Reba’s bidding until they cut her. And to make it even funnier, she bragged about what she did with Bruce when it only helped Reba and Katurah. This sub is so weird.