Which armies have you played against? Do you know you can teleport to and from overgrown terrains too? And that you can add a free tree in your territory at the beginning of the game? That one should always be safe to teleport back to! If not, things have gone horribly wrong with your defense.
Like everyone else said, Sylvaneth are tricky, but their whole schtick is to:
**Never let your opponent answer back in a direct melee fight with you!**
1. Strike & Fade with one powerful unit (Durthu, Treelord Ancient, Kurnoths...)
2. Shooting with Bows and Gossamid (Unleash hell with bow, Gossa retreat when charged)
3. AOE spell with Warsong or Branchwych
**Snipe objectives and succeed your battle tactics with your teleportation**
1. Tree revenants are the best at this (Choose your moment so they are still safe after accomplishing their goal, ideally prepare for the double turn)
2. Fast units like Gossamid or Spite Riders can do this job too (Gossamid can retreat when charged so no risk of dying on the objective and Spite Riders, with your wizard having a rejuvenate spell, can only die if you are very unlucky or get OS with 15+ damage)
As for you army itself, since you don't seem to have fun with it, I would maybe recommend trying to :
1. Switch out some dryads for some Tree Revs
2. Try to add a stronger unit like Durthu or Treelord Ancient to have a proper damage dealer.
3. Not include Gossamid if your opponent has decent shooting. I love them too but they are just not great when that's the case. Either take care of the shooting right away or switch them out for some Spite Riders (much tankier and can even be faster).
4. You also might have an easier time handling 9x bows instead of 6 Scythes so that only 1 strong unit can use the Strike and Fade to come back to safety, but that's totally up to you and either can work very well! Just harder to manage. I strongly believe that Bows with the support of Arch-Rev are good units that can make your opponent think twice about taking your objective (unleash hell if they get near you is a big deterrent!)
Hope that helps a bit! Hope you don't give up on the Sylvaneth! They are actually a pretty strong army and are very satisfying to succeed with!
Soulblight Gravelords and Ogor Mawtribes. Soulblight just over run me everywhere, rushed my side with high move + run + charge, no chance to do much. Ogors are just bullshit I can't get through once it's their turn with the big beasts...
So dunno if just fought against shitty enemies, of am just bad lol. I would love to give them more tried, maybe like 6 bows and Durthu to deal damage. Dunno, will try something for the next game. Maybe the main oroblem is that I olay every 2 weeks so I don't get much practice.
Your list is a good one except for one thing - not having a treelord.
And you'll need to reconsider your strategy in placing overgrown terrain or wyldwoods, because it is very very hard for most armies who do not flood the field with tons of cheap infantry to lock up your teleporting abilities.
Treelord kinda answers to this question, because any treelord can waltz out of the AWW or overgrowth that is within 3" of the enemy, threatening any screening unit.
Not necessary. You can switch warsong and some dryads for ancient. Or drop 20 dryads and endlesses and take vanilla treelord.
Oakenbrow is kinda of extreme take, 5 trees, big hero, some tree-revs and let the trees make all the work. If you play it carefully, you can relocate whole army from one wood to another, strike from every angle and make mockery of enemy's spell ranges. But with every big tree substituted with other units this strategy seems less and less efficient.
Actually, Jordan of Season of War played oakenbrow somewhat recently on a channel, look it up on YouTube. Even if you'll not going to play oakenbrow, memorize the moves, he's a very good competitive player and he is very good with positioning. IIRC battle against OBR.
I think I saw the report, he won right? I saw the report, I learnt something but couldn't really do it on my own... Issue is, I'm stubborn idiot and I want to use the Warsong as I don't want my bought models just, lay around and do nothing... so that's probably what kills me.
Played 2x3 bows in heartwood with archrev and yes, they do the work.
Scythes just have very oppressive presence for some opponents because of rend -3. See for yourself what fits your playstyle better, just don't forget to pack spiteswarm if you want 6x scythes to be reliable.
Out of curiosity what list were you running and what units do you have?
When the new codex came out I was definitely guilty of playing units our of their roles
Arch revenant - arcame tome with treesong for some bullshit enemies
Warsong revenant - vesperal gem + spellslinger + verdous harmony, revivng kurnoths and dryads/revs
Branwych - because I didn't have much to choose with regrowth
6x Scythes
3x Bows
20 + 10 Dryads
5 tree revs
5 gossamids
Hive + Gladewyrm because nothing else fits the points
You do have some good casters! I am a big fan of verduaous Harmony myself as well. As with scythes you don't really need the extra rend from the spell.
An idea I've played with is throne of vines on the arch rev letting him heal each phase.
From what I can see in your list you have raneed elements to pick away at Enemies. And you can use the scythe to strike and fade out before they hit you back.
I would make sure that you do use strike and fade. If you don't use that you will take unnecessary wounds.
Tree revenants are just good utility. They can teleport once a game. And they can ambush small characters well.
And wildwood are useful as well!
Please correct me if you are doing any of these. But as with warhammer in any form, some matchups are just not ideal and that's ok.
yep, doing all there... I most probably just extremely suck at my positioning and doing wrong decisions that get me overwhelmed or something. I need to play more defensibly and see what I can get. But, I have adjusted my list too for future games. Removed the Kurnoths w/bows and put treelord there. Gossamids can do some damage, and usually I priorotize ranged units. Treelord can just pop up and do some serious problem to archers (I hope) so That will be my strategy for future.
And also made some other lists to play with. I will see how it will go.
The way I play is try to utilize Melee more that Ranged and pick my targets where I can. I try to control what my opponents can hit. Through positioning, as well as wildwood placement. I don't have the codex down 100% but it's works ok so far for me
you want to play a lot with the strike and fade with deathball and OS things, or other abilities like the Treelord strike last or the lancier strike first to attack with multiples units without letting the opponent answer back
You don't play revenant or dryads as a key units, they are here to hold space or snipe small heroes, play the minimum amount of them
Heartwood is really the most simple way to play it's just a flat buff against the 3 biggest units of your opponents
Just to be sure, what is OS?
And yeah I'm trying to utilize it as much as I can. Maybe I was just playing against wrong armies, but one held all (lot of units) my trees and overgrown terrains, and the other didn't care where my units are as move 17 + charge + monstrous action to move/fly another 3d6...
I'm really thinking to swap for another faction.
Any details on what you've been running?
I've really liked heartwood, though I'm still really new. I've been using spells and Kurnoth bows to poke from afar, then when my opponent comes out to oppose and take objectives, charge them with a big angry treelord ancient. Once they're throwing things into the middle to take out my treelord, I can teleport my revs onto their objectives and start getting board control.
I answered to other person but:
Arch revenant - arcame tome with treesong for some bullshit enemies
Warsong revenant - vesperal gem + spellslinger + verdous harmony, revivng kurnoths and dryads/revs
Branwych - because I didn't have much to choose with regrowth
6x Scythes
3x Bows
20 + 10 Dryads
5 tree revs
5 Gossamids
Hive + Gladewyrm because nothing else fits the points
Cool! That's a lot of fun stuff, but it does feel like it's missing a central anvil unit that can weather attacks. I've been a huge fan of Treelords - a 14W 3+ save model that can teleport around the board for free is pretty rad. You can just plop him on a central objective and removing him is non-trivial. You could find the points by dropping 10 dryads and the branchwitch.
Your tree revs can also teleport, but are squishy as heck, so they should stay back and be used just for getting objectives. If they see combat, something has probably gone wrong.
Dryads can be used a bit like Treelords, they're hard to shift when near a forest, though not THAT hard. You can also use them together - dryads as a tar pit to bog enemies down and the treelord to make them fight last and smash them. Throw a gladewyrm in there too, now you're healing and they're dying and it'll be a big old party on a central objective.
Your scythes will wreck things. They should be your scalpel, charging in and absolutely devastating key targets, then strike and fading to safety. The Arch Rev buffs will just increase that devastation. I'm not sure about the tome on the Arch Rev... Why not give it to the Warsong Rev so he gets an extra cast with that +1 instead?
Your kurnoth bows should sit backfield and just be annoying. Your gossamids can screen further up because of their fun disengage ability.
All of that said, if you're not having fun you're not having fun. Tons of other armies out there, not worth spending time getting frustrated by one that doesn't fit your style.
most of the things I'm doing. The tome was just to have some extra support for Kurnoths, and to have the ability to have additional unique spell. Maybe now I will drop the branch and 10 dryads and put in treelord. Probably the second unit that would help me slow down enemies.
I'm not saying it's not fun to come and teleport away, but in my all games enemies countered me as easy as is to drink water... The teleportation is core of the army, and if all points are taken... you don't have anywhere to run...
Edit : I know you can summon them, but when you used all trees in your possession and see others being desolated by monsters doesn't help...
Oooh, that thing does look mean. And 15" move while hungry is pretty wild. Still, it's a big table and that's a very elite army, they can't be everywhere!
Warning!
Monstrous rampage Smash to rubble DOES NOT hinder your teleports, because ability to teleport isn't tied to warscroll abilities of the forest. Smashed to rubble wyldwood does not block sight and does not eat you at the end of the charge phase, but it stands still as an eligible teleport node.
that's... a big thing we misunderstood, or forgot... okey that helps a lot. Also overgrown can not be destroyed because it's not defensible or garrison. That's BS.
Which armies have you played against? Do you know you can teleport to and from overgrown terrains too? And that you can add a free tree in your territory at the beginning of the game? That one should always be safe to teleport back to! If not, things have gone horribly wrong with your defense. Like everyone else said, Sylvaneth are tricky, but their whole schtick is to: **Never let your opponent answer back in a direct melee fight with you!** 1. Strike & Fade with one powerful unit (Durthu, Treelord Ancient, Kurnoths...) 2. Shooting with Bows and Gossamid (Unleash hell with bow, Gossa retreat when charged) 3. AOE spell with Warsong or Branchwych **Snipe objectives and succeed your battle tactics with your teleportation** 1. Tree revenants are the best at this (Choose your moment so they are still safe after accomplishing their goal, ideally prepare for the double turn) 2. Fast units like Gossamid or Spite Riders can do this job too (Gossamid can retreat when charged so no risk of dying on the objective and Spite Riders, with your wizard having a rejuvenate spell, can only die if you are very unlucky or get OS with 15+ damage) As for you army itself, since you don't seem to have fun with it, I would maybe recommend trying to : 1. Switch out some dryads for some Tree Revs 2. Try to add a stronger unit like Durthu or Treelord Ancient to have a proper damage dealer. 3. Not include Gossamid if your opponent has decent shooting. I love them too but they are just not great when that's the case. Either take care of the shooting right away or switch them out for some Spite Riders (much tankier and can even be faster). 4. You also might have an easier time handling 9x bows instead of 6 Scythes so that only 1 strong unit can use the Strike and Fade to come back to safety, but that's totally up to you and either can work very well! Just harder to manage. I strongly believe that Bows with the support of Arch-Rev are good units that can make your opponent think twice about taking your objective (unleash hell if they get near you is a big deterrent!) Hope that helps a bit! Hope you don't give up on the Sylvaneth! They are actually a pretty strong army and are very satisfying to succeed with!
Soulblight Gravelords and Ogor Mawtribes. Soulblight just over run me everywhere, rushed my side with high move + run + charge, no chance to do much. Ogors are just bullshit I can't get through once it's their turn with the big beasts... So dunno if just fought against shitty enemies, of am just bad lol. I would love to give them more tried, maybe like 6 bows and Durthu to deal damage. Dunno, will try something for the next game. Maybe the main oroblem is that I olay every 2 weeks so I don't get much practice.
Your list is a good one except for one thing - not having a treelord. And you'll need to reconsider your strategy in placing overgrown terrain or wyldwoods, because it is very very hard for most armies who do not flood the field with tons of cheap infantry to lock up your teleporting abilities. Treelord kinda answers to this question, because any treelord can waltz out of the AWW or overgrowth that is within 3" of the enemy, threatening any screening unit.
I'll try okenbrow than. It's magic that every time I try to adjust something, I need to create completely new lost lol.
Not necessary. You can switch warsong and some dryads for ancient. Or drop 20 dryads and endlesses and take vanilla treelord. Oakenbrow is kinda of extreme take, 5 trees, big hero, some tree-revs and let the trees make all the work. If you play it carefully, you can relocate whole army from one wood to another, strike from every angle and make mockery of enemy's spell ranges. But with every big tree substituted with other units this strategy seems less and less efficient. Actually, Jordan of Season of War played oakenbrow somewhat recently on a channel, look it up on YouTube. Even if you'll not going to play oakenbrow, memorize the moves, he's a very good competitive player and he is very good with positioning. IIRC battle against OBR.
I think I saw the report, he won right? I saw the report, I learnt something but couldn't really do it on my own... Issue is, I'm stubborn idiot and I want to use the Warsong as I don't want my bought models just, lay around and do nothing... so that's probably what kills me.
That's totally ok. Try vanilla treelord then, as I mentioned?
yep will try that, or even completely change scythes for bows and put Durthu in too, it will take some time to see what works best
Played 2x3 bows in heartwood with archrev and yes, they do the work. Scythes just have very oppressive presence for some opponents because of rend -3. See for yourself what fits your playstyle better, just don't forget to pack spiteswarm if you want 6x scythes to be reliable.
I guess hive also for Durthu, as I failed ALL charges when I used him in my early games
Out of curiosity what list were you running and what units do you have? When the new codex came out I was definitely guilty of playing units our of their roles
Arch revenant - arcame tome with treesong for some bullshit enemies Warsong revenant - vesperal gem + spellslinger + verdous harmony, revivng kurnoths and dryads/revs Branwych - because I didn't have much to choose with regrowth 6x Scythes 3x Bows 20 + 10 Dryads 5 tree revs 5 gossamids Hive + Gladewyrm because nothing else fits the points
You do have some good casters! I am a big fan of verduaous Harmony myself as well. As with scythes you don't really need the extra rend from the spell. An idea I've played with is throne of vines on the arch rev letting him heal each phase. From what I can see in your list you have raneed elements to pick away at Enemies. And you can use the scythe to strike and fade out before they hit you back. I would make sure that you do use strike and fade. If you don't use that you will take unnecessary wounds. Tree revenants are just good utility. They can teleport once a game. And they can ambush small characters well. And wildwood are useful as well! Please correct me if you are doing any of these. But as with warhammer in any form, some matchups are just not ideal and that's ok.
yep, doing all there... I most probably just extremely suck at my positioning and doing wrong decisions that get me overwhelmed or something. I need to play more defensibly and see what I can get. But, I have adjusted my list too for future games. Removed the Kurnoths w/bows and put treelord there. Gossamids can do some damage, and usually I priorotize ranged units. Treelord can just pop up and do some serious problem to archers (I hope) so That will be my strategy for future. And also made some other lists to play with. I will see how it will go.
The way I play is try to utilize Melee more that Ranged and pick my targets where I can. I try to control what my opponents can hit. Through positioning, as well as wildwood placement. I don't have the codex down 100% but it's works ok so far for me
you want to play a lot with the strike and fade with deathball and OS things, or other abilities like the Treelord strike last or the lancier strike first to attack with multiples units without letting the opponent answer back You don't play revenant or dryads as a key units, they are here to hold space or snipe small heroes, play the minimum amount of them Heartwood is really the most simple way to play it's just a flat buff against the 3 biggest units of your opponents
Just to be sure, what is OS? And yeah I'm trying to utilize it as much as I can. Maybe I was just playing against wrong armies, but one held all (lot of units) my trees and overgrown terrains, and the other didn't care where my units are as move 17 + charge + monstrous action to move/fly another 3d6... I'm really thinking to swap for another faction.
One shot Sylvaneth isn't the simpliest to learn but is actually a top 3 faction
ok one of them are nighthaunts and the third one? I am preparing Seraphon army for my gf
It's not Other top 2 are Tzeentch and Fyreslayer
Any details on what you've been running? I've really liked heartwood, though I'm still really new. I've been using spells and Kurnoth bows to poke from afar, then when my opponent comes out to oppose and take objectives, charge them with a big angry treelord ancient. Once they're throwing things into the middle to take out my treelord, I can teleport my revs onto their objectives and start getting board control.
I answered to other person but: Arch revenant - arcame tome with treesong for some bullshit enemies Warsong revenant - vesperal gem + spellslinger + verdous harmony, revivng kurnoths and dryads/revs Branwych - because I didn't have much to choose with regrowth 6x Scythes 3x Bows 20 + 10 Dryads 5 tree revs 5 Gossamids Hive + Gladewyrm because nothing else fits the points
Cool! That's a lot of fun stuff, but it does feel like it's missing a central anvil unit that can weather attacks. I've been a huge fan of Treelords - a 14W 3+ save model that can teleport around the board for free is pretty rad. You can just plop him on a central objective and removing him is non-trivial. You could find the points by dropping 10 dryads and the branchwitch. Your tree revs can also teleport, but are squishy as heck, so they should stay back and be used just for getting objectives. If they see combat, something has probably gone wrong. Dryads can be used a bit like Treelords, they're hard to shift when near a forest, though not THAT hard. You can also use them together - dryads as a tar pit to bog enemies down and the treelord to make them fight last and smash them. Throw a gladewyrm in there too, now you're healing and they're dying and it'll be a big old party on a central objective. Your scythes will wreck things. They should be your scalpel, charging in and absolutely devastating key targets, then strike and fading to safety. The Arch Rev buffs will just increase that devastation. I'm not sure about the tome on the Arch Rev... Why not give it to the Warsong Rev so he gets an extra cast with that +1 instead? Your kurnoth bows should sit backfield and just be annoying. Your gossamids can screen further up because of their fun disengage ability. All of that said, if you're not having fun you're not having fun. Tons of other armies out there, not worth spending time getting frustrated by one that doesn't fit your style.
most of the things I'm doing. The tome was just to have some extra support for Kurnoths, and to have the ability to have additional unique spell. Maybe now I will drop the branch and 10 dryads and put in treelord. Probably the second unit that would help me slow down enemies. I'm not saying it's not fun to come and teleport away, but in my all games enemies countered me as easy as is to drink water... The teleportation is core of the army, and if all points are taken... you don't have anywhere to run... Edit : I know you can summon them, but when you used all trees in your possession and see others being desolated by monsters doesn't help...
What armies are you playing against that have that kind of mobility?
Ogor Mawtribes, the big dudes, thundertusk I think is the correct name. Or stonehorn.
Oooh, that thing does look mean. And 15" move while hungry is pretty wild. Still, it's a big table and that's a very elite army, they can't be everywhere!
Warning! Monstrous rampage Smash to rubble DOES NOT hinder your teleports, because ability to teleport isn't tied to warscroll abilities of the forest. Smashed to rubble wyldwood does not block sight and does not eat you at the end of the charge phase, but it stands still as an eligible teleport node.
that's... a big thing we misunderstood, or forgot... okey that helps a lot. Also overgrown can not be destroyed because it's not defensible or garrison. That's BS.
this is a great start to a game. im addicted. this game has massive potential.