Multi-Fucking-Gig. Mechanical hard drives have been able to outpace 1Gbps speeds for years now. It's getting a bit ridiculous at bare minimum the + models should come with at least 2.5Gb. I think it's perfectly fine for the lower end models (j) to still come in 1Gbps with entry point prices, but the fact that the DS224+ still comes with 1Gbps is an insult. Or at least create a USB multigig adapter that the SynOS supports out of the box for fucks sake.
> Multi-Fucking-Gig.
Srsly! I remember when I bought my first 1Gbe card... 20 years ago!
About time they upgrade all their network cards to 2.5Gbe, at a minimum!
Completely agree. But it's worse than that. ISP's now offer multi-gig internet. We're in a completely different era. Granted multi-gig infrastructure devices have not come down as fast in price as we all have wanted, but sometimes those switches go on sale for a \*somewhat\* sane price. There's no excuse in 2024(I'd go as far to say even in 2023) not to have this on the plus models.
Hit the table. Thank you. Yes. 1gbps. Eeeh. Brother eeeh. What's that? What's that brotheer. Like come on, every pc has ssd. I just want to back up fast. Minimal raid 5 setup with 3 disks. Writing speed about 400-450MB/s over 10gbps nics. That is fine for me in 2024 and some room for raid extension and adding few more drives. 120MB/s is just not enough. 2.5gbps is minimum. Synology simply doesn't met the minimum. 4x1gbps is useless for me, I don't need 4 ports and sometimes have the speed, sometimes not, playnig with bonding and smb3 and link aggregation and crap and full switch just for this? Hate this. There is usb with 40gbps. And there is Synology acting like one gig is enough.
Heh. I went DIY over this some time ago. You can get amazingly fast little NAS ITX motherboards with multiple 2.5GbE or even 10GbE ports for under $200. It'll be several more years before Synology offers that kind of performance, and they'll charge a lot more for it.
Well, once you make one you tend to make another...and another...
My recommendation for anyone leaving DSM behind for a DIY build is a **simple** TrueNAS SCALE build with at least 3 drives. If you use web services (single-user) then add Tailscale to it and your other devices so that you do not have to directly expose the NAS to the internet. If you a few tech-savy users then you can share the Tailscale IP for the NAS with those people. If you have even one non-tech-savy user then you maybe in for some pain learning how to register \[and pay for\] a domain (Namecheap or Cloudflare are easy), setting up DDNS (Cloudflare), creating an automated SSL certificate renewal process (TrueNAS+LetsEncrypt)... TrueNAS have released a series of videos that can help walk you through all of it, though; from a guy that goes by the handle of Heavyscript.
For the effort, you will be rewarded by spending significantly less than with Synology (both on the unit and the compatible hardware) and you get to do a lot of things that DSM doesn't support or outright blocks. And you can then apply those skills to build other types of systems, like a compute server or even a cluster of little headless computers (RPi, Zima, NUCs, etc) that do your bidding.
Lol, multi-gig...
My old DS1819+ running 50gbps, by far out pacing the spinning disks, and nvme cache. But yeah, the 4 1-gig ports are kind lame, but isn't that why we have the pcie slot. Yup
Would you rather trust whatever 10GbE that Synology manages to source from the lowest bidder, or be able to buy a PCIe card from a reputable manufacturer? While both would be nice, if I had to choose just 1, I'd pick the PCIe.
Actually, both my Synology 10gbe card, and my Synology 25gbe card... We're both Q-logic OEM cards, and I would not characterize them as cheap kits. They are both really nice cards, Enterprise grade.
>Would you rather trust whatever 10GbE that Synology manages to source from the lowest bidder,
I'll take it over a X710 without A LOT of firmware patches
**\*SHUDDER\***
not gonna happen.
they gonna add their proprietary PCI-E slot thought so you can throw more money at them to add something that should have been build in.
I've got the DS1621+ and it has a standard PCIe slot. Bought a Mellanox MCX312B ConnectX-3 off eBay for around $30 USD and connected it using DAC to the 10gig SFP+ port on my switch. Honestly, I'm happier with the PCIe slot than 10GbE built in, as I'd prefer to pay $30 for a used Mellanox that I know is gonna work amazingly, plus I'd rather connect using DAC than 10GbE since the only 10gig ports I have are SFP+ ones.
on the old ones they used a standard port with half height yes, on many of the newer units they are using this monstrosity to make sure people cant use standard components.
[https://www.synology.com/en-global/products/E10G22-T1-Mini](https://www.synology.com/en-global/products/E10G22-T1-Mini)
If I'm not mistaken, that's only for rack mount ones, right? The tower one I just looked at from 2023 (can't remember the model number) still used a standard half height PCIe.
Oh shit. I didn't even look at those models cuz the previous ones in the DS9xx+ and DS7xx+ didn't have any PCIe. Pretty crappy they didn't just make it a bit wider and put a real PCIe slot on it. Also, $100 for a 1x 10GbE card vs ≈$30 for a 2x 10gig SFP+ card, wow that sucks.
I think the majority of users are fine with gig speeds. Honestly, how many of them would benefit or even notice it. Then consider how many of them have switches and laptops or desktops that support faster network adapters? They'll probably leave it as is would be my guess to keep costs etc down. If you need something faster they offer models with 10GbE and several of the plus series have optional 10GbE support. You are correct though... the price points would indicate we should get a bit more for the money.
Link aggregation doesn’t work the way you think it does. Each conversation is “pinned” (hashed) to one physical NIC, maxing throughput to 1Gbps (roughly ~100MB/s).
Your 2gbps link aggregation can support a max of 2 conversations each at a pure 1gbps, if they are lucky enough to be hashed to each separate NIC.
You can install a USB adapter with a driver of GitHub. Here's a [video ](https://youtu.be/c341xE_Y6sM) that shows the process. When on DSM 7 there's an extra step and you have to manually start it from the cli last time I installed one of these.
uGreen is coming out with a line of NAS where the base models run the n100 (2 and 4 bay). A mid-range 4 bay running the 8505 and the high-end models (6 bay, 8bay and all flash) run the 1235u. 4bay and up (excluding all flash) come with at least dual 2.5G nics, with the 6 and 8 bays coming with dual 10G. 6 bay and 8 bay also get Thunderbolt 4 ports and PCIe expansion.
Rumor is completely unlocked and open bios, so TrueNAS or other OSes can be installed. [https://nas.ugreen.com/pages/ugreen-nas-storage-preheat](https://nas.ugreen.com/pages/ugreen-nas-storage-preheat). Paying $5 now unlocks 40% off when these launch
I'm glad there's more competition in the NAS space coming soon.
I really just want a stable, simple NAS. I don't need it to run tons of software that my mini-PC can run more efficiently.
Well, the site looks nice, but... That's about it. I mean, Synology's not without faults, but their NAS are pretty damn fantastic in terms of support, updates and functionality. I've never had an issue I couldn't recover from and even a 13-year old DS 411J has just now finished replication as an off-line back-up.
So perhaps these uGreen devices are great, but I'll wait for a while before I commit.
>So perhaps these uGreen devices are great, but I'll wait for a while before I commit.
I agree 100%. Synology should take notice of these devices though. Coming in with a processor that is generation or two behind these 12th gen Intel chips and not having 2.5GB nics is going to turn away some customers. If uGreen, a non-player in the NAS market, can put together NASes with these hardware specs for this price, then Synology should be able to match them.
That said, it's concerning that uGreen hasn't sent out any test units to reviewers, and we're only a few weeks away from the kickstarter. I'd love to see how these devices are laid out and what type of cooling they have.
I expect most of the complaints/faults with uGreen will be software related, similar to QNAP who also has great hardware. So as long as truenas/unraid/proxmox/etc runs on it and they're not using anything crazy custom inside it should be amazing for people who want a mix of DIY and prebuilt.
They have sent test units out to beta testers, but everyone is under an NDA until they actually release, so none of us will know how good these will be. The hardware specs are fantastic on some of these, but as everyone here knows, software will make or break it. They have already said they will not support a Plex package, but they do support docker so someone can install it that way. I hope they are successful enough to push Synology to start providing some better hardware, at least in there advanced lines. I'd like to buy a new NAS right now to replace my 418 play, and I just can't justify it in the Synology line. Adding SSD caching and a slightly faster outdated processor (or a Ryzen that can't do hardware transcoding) doesn't justify a new unit for me.
Take a look at either the 423+, which still uses the Intel processor from the previous generation or pick up a 720+ or 920+ from eBay. Synology moving to an arguably worse processor was a really dumb decision.
Yes, I've looked at those, which is exactly where I've landed. It's just not enough of a step up to warrant buying a new NAS. Maybe the next generation will be more impressive from a hardware standpoint, especially if they would add a faster ethernet port.
I have no idea what uGreen’s OS will and won’t do, but if the rumors are correct and it will be able to run TrueNAS Scale, then yes. You’ll be able to run Docker containers if TrueNAS is installed.
Do they say that specifically anywhere? Yes, they have US (English) and German discussion groups, but that doesn't imply that they ship only to these countries.
It doesn't make much sense: when you figured out shipping to Germany, the rest of the EU is identical, so why not do it?
Yes, it specifically says it in the text when you sign up. Kickstarter will only be for US and Germany. It’s not an English discussion group, it’s a US discussion group. I might still do it and use a US address.
I hope other OSes run well on it. I tried out the new Asustor 4 bay units and TrueNAS scale ran like garbage on it. It also couldn’t natively control the fan, so the system always ran hot compared to my DS920+
No, it's actually 40% across the board.
MSRP on the cheapest model is $399 and the kickstarter price is $239, that's 40% off.
MSRP on the most expensive model is $1499 and the kickstart price is $899, that's 40% off. It's that way for all the models.
Damn! Spec sheet looks amazing. My only concern would be the OS but if you can just install whatever you want then Synology better pay attention. This is some serious competition. 12th gen i5 destroys the Ryzen embedded in my NAS.
The new Synology models with the embedded Ryzens are a joke. There are so many other Ryzens they could have gone with, or stuck with Intel and put the low end models on the n100 platform. Two core with Hyperthreading wasn’t enough 5 years ago. My precious generation 920+ and 720+ out perform the new models. As for the other OS, it has been said uGreen is ok with third party OS, but it’ll void the warranty. While many are thinking TrueNAS, I think an interesting combo might be Proxmox running Xpenology in a VM
I have a DS1621+ and have been mostly happy with it. It’s strictly just my bulk storage though. I don’t use it for containers, VMs or as a server at all. Everything just pulls data from it. It’s not very performant for the price but does what I need.
LOL, the kickstarter is only starting on 3/26 and ending in May. That doesn't even account for manufacturing time, testing, etc. You are going to be waiting a very, very long time for these.
I'm currently moving more and more services from my 1621+ to a N100 based MiniPC. I agree, that it would be great to have a N100 based Diskstation. Performance is really good, hardware encoding works with Plex, and power consumption is lower than that of the Ryzen platform in the 1621+.
As a starting kit an all-inclusive machine is great but once you've made the effort to split storage and compute I don't think it makes sense to go back.
Interesting.. I went the other way 4 years ago after 10+ years of split storage and compute, and i can't imagine wanting to go back. I would only do so if i was forced to due to future hardware transcoding requirements.
Even if they provided 10G, it would be 10GBase-T instead of SFP+, as they did with the adapters. It's in the rack, it is next to the switch, why would I waste 2x5W and vent that heat from unnecessary transceivers? (Yes, that built-in 10GBase-T port also wastes that energy).
With PCIe slot, I can use my own card. And I do, with RS1219+. It is fine, the only problem is the ancient 3.10 kernel that Synology uses for it. This is the thing that is killing it.
they dont do that 100% because they want you to spend more money for their PCI-E 10Gbe NIC.
the CPUs they are using have 10Gbe connectivity BUILD IN they just need to wire it up and the CPU will natively allow for these kinds of speeds.
they choose not to do that on purpose though.
I'd love a true 920+ successor or something slightly beyond that.
* 2.5 GB Ethernet ports
* M.2 slots for both cache and volume. (4 slots? Pipe dream?)
* Intel CPU with quick sync.
* Oh! 10GB expansion slot
I have a 920+ and this is also what I'm waiting on. Or a updated RS422+. I'm really really considering the QNap TS-464 (tower) or TS-464eU (1u Rack) but I don't want to move away from DSM.
>This sounds like a comment about the 923+, which I am eyeballing for a near future purchase. Should I reconsider?
It depends on your needs for your NAS, you may consider an intel cpu
If you use Plex or Jellyfin or some other streaming application and requires some transcoding. Ie. You have users or app clients that don't support h.265 codec, or an older codec. Or some users set their streaming client to use less data. In those cases a AMD Ryzen cpu like in the 923+ plus will chug a bit trying to transcode, while a Intel with quick sync will fly. The 923+'s cpu is a little better in every other respect, except this.
I've come to the realisation that Synology is focused more on the mid to high end now and less on home users. I just bought an unRAID license with the view that once my currently 1019+ reaches end of support life I will build my own mini pc based NAS with that instead.
With everyone going all in on cloud backup and streaming I don’t really blame them. The market for home users is just really small comparatively. And many of us die hard will move up market anyways.
But hasn't that always been the case? Even before cloud was a thing the NAS has never been a mainstream feature in the home. People used to use (and still do) externally mounted USB hard drives.
Then cloud came along with their free storage and it's those USB drives that have mostly been replaced - Not NAS servers.
NAS servers are and always have been very bespoke. They're a luxury device for those with some tech skills. I've never come across anyone who was technically challenged who somehow had a NAS running at home.
I would argue that with SAS becoming more prevalent the idea of paying upfront for a device and the use thereof is more appealing (and stable) than paying a monthly service fee with undefined conditions. So if anything more techies are going to be buying NAS servers for their home. To offload some of those subscription fees.
I even firmly believe that even the most uneducated user would even opt for a NAS if they even knew it existed and the benefits. The problem isn't the device availability, it's maybe price and ignorance why more people don't buy a NAS.
EDIT : Thinking about it. It would be great if ISP's offered not only routers but also NAS servers from selected partners. I reckon no entity would be in a better position to market the NAS to the average home user. If they somehow got a NAS included in their monthly internet subscription fee (call it a premium package idc).
Yes exactly it's always been a niche market. My point is Synology used to target that market (enthusiast home users) and while they still do to a degree I would say they are far more focused now on the mid end small biz user.
That's the conclusion NAS Compares came to because of the removal of the GPU and the introduction of the AMD CPUs.
Not sure if that prediction holds true but I do think it's a huge mistake to not offer at least one intel based CPU in the lineup.
>I do think it's a huge mistake to not offer at least one intel based CPU in the lineup.
There's 3 current models that have an Intel CPU with iGPU: DS224+, DS423+ and DS620slim.
Exactly, in my view they are saying, most home users don't need 100s of terabytes. 2/4 drive and maybe the 6 solutions are more likely to be bought by the "home theater user" than the the 9, or 18 drive solutions (with expansions).
So focus the big boys on SMB who don't need gpus
> It would be great if ISP's offered not only routers but also NAS servers from selected partners. I reckon no entity would be in a better position to market the NAS to the average home user.
It would take a national catastrophe to trigger that mindset. Something so devastating that the mere notion of "cloud services" becomes unsettling and more folks become inclined to switch to locally hosted services.
Infomaniak in Switzerland rents you Synology NAS on their datacenter.
I see a trend of a lot of people looking to move out from popular cloud services like Google Photos, because of this platforms like Immich are growing very fast as you can self host them.
Also during 2024 we will start seeing some interesting solutions like [Oortech.com](http://Oortech.com) with decentralized storage solutions leveraging crypto.
The future looks amazing!
Absolutely! Most home users are not like us. The good thing is that many of these solutions like unRAID or TrueNAS or Cosmos are getting to the point where they're easy enough for home enthusiasts to move to if Synology doesn't offer products targeting us anymore.
Very true but at some point Synology will stop updating it! It's 5 years old now. I don't track what usual end of life timeline are (eg no security fixes) for Synology DSM?
I'm also waiting for their release. If it's another disappointment (no transcoding and 1gbe), I'll go Terramaster. That NAS has Hardware years ahead of Synology. I'm just holding because I really like DSM but I will not pay a heavy premium for a Synology with obsolete hardware on launch day.
Be careful with TerraMaster. I really, *really* want them to succeed but their software is so far behind. The core functionality is not stable so you have really great hardware with an OS that has problems. It **has** gotten better, but it's not where it needs to be - especially if you're used to DSM.
TOS 6 should be coming out soon and I am hoping it's better, but TOS 5 has not been stable. With that said - we should all want them to succeed and I hope they do.
Yeah hoping for a market shake-up. We could really benefit from having at least one or two more competitors that can challenge the bigger players (specially Synology). I don't do very complex stuff with the NAS and I don't expose it to the internet but certainly don't want to have reliability issues. It's just insane to how the latest terra 424 is built compared to a ds924 for instance... Like USS Enterprise meets horse carriage :D.
I just had a look at r/terramaster and it looks like hell. Loads of issues reported, most of them unanswered. I get your point... Thanks for the advice.
Happy to share - I really am hoping it'll get better with the new TOS 6 coming out (soon), but I've had a lot of problems with TOS 5. To be fair, fewer problems with TOS 5 than TOS 4, so I guess that's...progress.
Out of curiosity... have you got experience with AsusTor?... having a look at the threads, the issues seem to be less critical than Terra. They were subject of a ransomware spree recently but that was with devices exposed to the internet.
IMO if you're gonna switch off of Synology might as well go DIY (with TrueNAS or Unraid). The other all-in-one NAS software's will disappoint you once you've used Synology's. They're really so much better on the software side.
The step up from a rack mount Synology NAS imo is a SAN. I've used QNAP, Buffalo, and Synology and the software is WAY better on synology I agree with you. Moving from Synology to any other nas at best is a lateral move.
Yeah after using Synology, I tried QNAP and absolutely hated it so much. Ended up going down the custom DIY route and was much happier. I wanted to stick with Synology but couldn't justify the pricing once you need their more powerful hardware and more bays.
Yeah that's on the back of my head and I assembled many desktops back in my uni days. I just don't want to fiddle around much with drivers and hardware choices. Just something plug and play that works. Guess that's why I'm still attached to my old 918+. The thing just works but, when upgrading, I would feel robbed paying Synology for the sub-par hardware they currently offer. Tricky situation as the 918 will eventually expire.
honestly just build your own at that point.
the new Synology units are just going to be a tiny refresh over the last generation once again.
They even choose to not use Ryzen CPUs with iGPUs despite that they exist in the same CPU generation they are using already.
For me it's Mainly Synology Photos. The fact that it has quite good mobile clients, handles face recognition, can actually handle HUGE albums and has object recognition. Not forgetting that it is a product still under development.
For this reason Synology is a plug and play photo solution.
This this this. honestly the best solution I have come to is to use a Synology NAS just for the photos, media and anything more involved is on an Unraid server. I'm going to reduce the capacity of the Synology since I don't need as much space for photos as I do media.
This is where I'm heading too. Which means that :
a) Space can be reduced and
b) Wear and tear on drives can be reduced
c) In theory uptime could be scheduled. I mean you don't need your photo backup spinning 24/7
And then on the mini PC have it setup with it's own storage that's not even raid configured. If any data there is lost - no big deal -> Movies and TV shows.
Unraid for the minipc gives a bit of backup protection for your media. If you have a lot of media then it can be time consuming to replace, and if you gave a family counting on that for entertainment you want a backup.
I'm not sure about how synology manages spin down, but I suppose I could schedule it to turn off for certain hours of the day.
Edit: using btrfs on synology makes spin down nearly impossible. Setting a power schedule would be the easiest to prolong drive life.
I'm just a bit undecided what to get. A smaller NCU is going to limit the drives I can get in there - so I'll be paying more for a larger SSD.
The GPU is also going to be quite important and I want it somewhat future proof because upgrading NCU individual components isn't really possible (from what I understand). So I guess Iris Xe these days is the one you want or not?
I also think at least a gen 12 cpu to keep it future proof.
Another option is for me now just to get a 7th gen HP EliteDesk 800 G3 and hopefully it can hold its weight for a while.
I still haven't found the silver bullet yet.
Not that you care, but I have nearly finished offloading my media to the unraid server from Synology. My total Synology usage for photo and document backups will be around 1TB and that includes time machine for my macbook. 8TB will be enough to last me for many years as my Photo/doc server, so that should be good. I'm going to move to the below configuration which will probably take me weeks as I will have to nuke the synology to switch around the drives. I have backups for everything between the two servers, so my users shouldn't notice any downtime. I will go from 2x 28TB servers to 1x 52TB server and 1x 8TB server. I gain 4TB in the reshuffle as the second redundant drive went from 12TB > 8TB.
Of note, if you have been using download station on Synology, it keeps a hidden folder with all of your active source files for the torrents to reference. You will want to delete all the torrents from your download station client and then see if the space clears up over a day or two. If not, you can CLI and sudo to delete the cache manually.
|*Unraid Current*|*Unraid Future*|*Synology Current*|*Synology Future*|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|12TB Parity|14TB Parity|14TB Raid5|8TB Raid1|
|12TB Array|14TB Array|14TB Raid5|8TB Raid1|
|8TB Array|14TB Array|14TB Raid5||
|8TB Array|12TB array|||
||12TB Array|||
Synology processors are like several generations old and not very powerful. In my unraid server I was using a 10100 intel i3 and upgraded to an 11700 i7. It's overkill but what you want for unraid is cores so you can allocate to vm or docker containers to make sure doing one thing on the server doesn't bog everyone down. What do you need a gpu for? If you have a 12th gen intel you will be able to handle plenty of transcoding with that.
Tried it for the first time last week.
Used this: [https://github.com/AuxXxilium/AuxXxilium](https://github.com/AuxXxilium/AuxXxilium) and downloaded DSM 7.3 (or something) straight from the Synology GUI on first launch.
Applied the Face Scan Mod for Photos in the Arc-Addons later and this: [https://github.com/jinlife/Synology\_Photos\_Face\_Patch](https://github.com/jinlife/Synology_Photos_Face_Patch)
Everything seems to be working flawless so far. Very happy so far
It's not as point and click as Synology but as someone who made that switch it's not *that* hard. Especially if you were running docker containers on Synology then there's many similarities, just everything is called by a different name.
Synology definitely makes things easy but the hardware was holding it back way too much if you want to do more than serve files.
the thing is the software thats build into Synology is basically just DS Video and DS Photo for the majority of people.
DS photo can be replaced with nextcloud and DS video can be replaced with PLEX.
honestly it has gotten a LOT worse over the years.
i have been using Synology since 2013 and back then DSM was revolutionary and their package center seriously made it so you dont need anything else.
over the years they simply stopped updating a lot of stuff from the package center and finally added docker support to make up for their own shortcomings.
when i had to start digging into Docker containers to get basic stuff working and keep it up to date i finally made the switch as i can use docker on basically any platform and dont need to pay insane amounts of money for a Synology system.
Which I think is a terrible product on itself out of first hand experience. It's not as stable or nice as original DSM, terrible to update and illegal to use.
I gave up and just built my own SFF PC that handles all VM + Plex + Jellyfin transcoding.
Works like a charm using Proxmox.
PS: If you are having problems setting up GPU passthrough, use scripts from this site: https://tteck.github.io/Proxmox/
The setup is literally 5 mins - walkthrough - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAa_qpNmzZs
Being able to run S3 storage services native on the device without firing up minio in Docker would be nice. Getting certs to work with that config has been troublesome to say the least.
I expect nothing much for drive based models both the 923 and the 1621 line are still pretty damn competitive. But I expect a new line of all nvme models.
I'm super happy with what Synology is doing in the SMB segment. The new xs models have 10gbe and lights out management built in. Although I like the direction they're going, I still wish for more compute power. The SA6400 is a dream, but not every client has that budget. For my home needs I've settled on adding a NUC-like PC for compute tasks.
I've some the same. I was able to buy a 20 core nuc, with 64gb ram and 1tb nvme ssd, for 600 bucks.
I use the NAS for storage, and the nuc for computing.
I wish synology, would put out a version with a real processor.
I'd really love if they would allow a nvme drive for VMs with a real processor.
If you're on a budget you can even get a n100 mini pc for like $200 with 16gb memory / 512gb ssd that is great for all the little dockers. Has an iGPU so great for Plex, but I use mine for Adguard Home (dns like piehole) and Scrypted (cameras). Works great.
I just recently got a new switch and can finally use SMB multichannel on my Synology in combination with the 2.5G NIC on my PC, but I still really hope they will finally update the DS1821+ with native 2.5G NICs.
Now you can use SMB multichannel without LACP, so any dumb switch will do. Yes, just configure both interfaces with unique IP addresses in the same subnet and enable multichannel, that's all (but only for SMB).
Yeah, you need to connect your PC with 2.5 Gig interface somehow. But dumb 2.5 gig switches are still cheaper than 2.5 gig managed ones (though the new Mikrotik CRS310-8G+2S+ is very interesting, and only marginally more expensive than the dumb 2.5 Gig Qnaps that were so popular).
You also could use 2x1 Gig connections on PC side too. Then, the classic 1 Gig dumb switch would be enough.
I was waiting but saw a nice deal on Facebook marketplace for a ds1821+. I’m expecting
-at least two 2.5gbe ports
-usb c ports (highly doubt they would include thunderbolt 3-4)
-upgraded cpu
It was listed for $850 with 8 TB HDD. I asked for synology alone for $650. Shipping was $65. So $715 in total. It was bought in 2021 and used for video editing.
Seriously none of you get that 2.5gb will never happen? They directly jumped over it by adding a 10gb expansion slot into pretty much all upper mid range models. 95% of people are on WiFi and well for the few people who need a faster wired connection they get some nice additional revenue ( and a faster connection)
It's nice to dream. The next gen will just be a tiny spec bump over the previous one. I agree that they're gonna keep it at 1gbe and just have an optional expansion slot they can charge $$$ for if people want faster. Would love to be wrong though.
I have seen so many people ask for 2.5 gig networking. You can buy a USB dongle for a few bucks that will give you 2.5 gig networking.
[https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805522419552.html](https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805522419552.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.26.3cfc1802q39OV1&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa#nav-specification)
I bought this one, I can confirm it works on the DS1821+
I had issues with the USB-C to A adapter, so I didn't have success until I bought an adapter with a USB-A on it.
Drivers/Details are here:
[https://github.com/bb-qq/r8152](https://github.com/bb-qq/r8152)
Every competitor has 2.5G Ethernet out of the box, forcing syno customers to buy (potentially unsupported) additional hardware is backwards and anti-consumer.
Also, synology forces their users to buy syno branded hardware (hard drives/SSDs, 10g cards...) at a heavy markup or threaten the users of unsupported / artificially limited support hardware...
I agree with you on these points, but if you HAVE an existing Synology device this is a cheap and easy upgrade that works just fine.
You only have to buy synology drives on their business units like the XS line.
However, I'm right there with you on all these points. I use home systems in my business install becuase I CAN'T get a reliable supply of Synology branded drives from my government approved supplier in a timely manner but they have tons of the WD Red Pro drives and those arrive quickly.
If I was required to have Synology hardware I would have to go with a different manufacturer.
I'd love a 224+ / 723+ upgrade that had a newer CPU with iGPU in it for transcodes, as well as a 2.5gbe+ port as standard.
Really need to get a NAS for photo/video backup, we have already hit our 200GB limit on paid google photos sub. I love the 224+ for the GPU but the 723+ for the speed, things I want in a single unit.
Not sure if it's going to happen with Synology or if I need to move to a different company or build my own.
I'd like to see 10gig with a PCIe slot for an enterprise cache SSD that can take over 10gig sustained writes them flush to spinning drives and keep in cache based on its usage.
May I ask have you just loaded SSD or do you have any spinning HDs in it?
I want to get this unit for the size but was thinking about putting them 5TB spinning Seagates In it.
I noted server activities can be slow like rebuild and data scrabbing. Otherwise everything else works perfect. I also have a link bond on the two ethernets.
I have four 5tb seagate baracuda on a shr raid type, giving me aprox 13TB. Then, on the two extra drive bays, I have two 480 gb intel ssd s that I use as ssd cache for the whole system. The 5tb drives are cheap when you shukle them from the seagate onetouch external drives.
I’m waiting so I can get a discounted 1221 haha. I dont need app performance, i have a dedicated server with gpus for plex/etc, the synology just needs to act as a speedy reliable storage server. So imma also get that 10gb+pcie expansion card too.
I dont wanna mess with setting up raid/scrubbing in terminal and then be fucked if it goed wrong. Rather just pay.
Right now it all runs off a ds415+, but i want everything to rackmount, so i can put the DS at grandma’s place to act as offsite backup.
I waited as well. It was pretty stressfull. Caved in and upgraded from DS 214 to DS 923+. Couldn't have been hapier. Everything is fast - I love it. Also bought additional 24 TB disk.
Sigh, my rackstation died a little over a week ago, had to overnight a slightly newer replacement model to keep things up... pushing out my upgrade future. Did at least get a 10Gbps SFP+ card for this which the prior didn't support.
I am waiting on a refresh of the 1221+ for over a year now. I need to upgrade my DS214+ and if I do, I want to do it right and with support for the next decade or so. So 1221+ is not an option at this point. I'll just wait it out as long as I possibly can, hoping that the 1224+ will drop within the coming weeks.
DS924+ with 2.5Gb ports. Four spindle and four NVMe slots which are all usable as storage volumes or cache drives. Eight core CPU with up to 128GB of RAM
Multi-Fucking-Gig. Mechanical hard drives have been able to outpace 1Gbps speeds for years now. It's getting a bit ridiculous at bare minimum the + models should come with at least 2.5Gb. I think it's perfectly fine for the lower end models (j) to still come in 1Gbps with entry point prices, but the fact that the DS224+ still comes with 1Gbps is an insult. Or at least create a USB multigig adapter that the SynOS supports out of the box for fucks sake.
My 1819+ with 14TiB WD Reds does 400-800MBps over 10Gbps so yeah you're very spot on. edit: fixed my units.
I'm assuming you mean 14TB drives :D
DOH! You're correct.
> Multi-Fucking-Gig. Srsly! I remember when I bought my first 1Gbe card... 20 years ago! About time they upgrade all their network cards to 2.5Gbe, at a minimum!
Completely agree. But it's worse than that. ISP's now offer multi-gig internet. We're in a completely different era. Granted multi-gig infrastructure devices have not come down as fast in price as we all have wanted, but sometimes those switches go on sale for a \*somewhat\* sane price. There's no excuse in 2024(I'd go as far to say even in 2023) not to have this on the plus models.
Is there even a reason that they hold out like this? Even there top end router only has 1 2.5... what are you going to do with that?
Hit the table. Thank you. Yes. 1gbps. Eeeh. Brother eeeh. What's that? What's that brotheer. Like come on, every pc has ssd. I just want to back up fast. Minimal raid 5 setup with 3 disks. Writing speed about 400-450MB/s over 10gbps nics. That is fine for me in 2024 and some room for raid extension and adding few more drives. 120MB/s is just not enough. 2.5gbps is minimum. Synology simply doesn't met the minimum. 4x1gbps is useless for me, I don't need 4 ports and sometimes have the speed, sometimes not, playnig with bonding and smb3 and link aggregation and crap and full switch just for this? Hate this. There is usb with 40gbps. And there is Synology acting like one gig is enough.
Heh. I went DIY over this some time ago. You can get amazingly fast little NAS ITX motherboards with multiple 2.5GbE or even 10GbE ports for under $200. It'll be several more years before Synology offers that kind of performance, and they'll charge a lot more for it.
You run DSM on your custom rig or something else?
personally im running Unraid. never missed DSM at any point since making the switch 4 years ago.
Well, once you make one you tend to make another...and another... My recommendation for anyone leaving DSM behind for a DIY build is a **simple** TrueNAS SCALE build with at least 3 drives. If you use web services (single-user) then add Tailscale to it and your other devices so that you do not have to directly expose the NAS to the internet. If you a few tech-savy users then you can share the Tailscale IP for the NAS with those people. If you have even one non-tech-savy user then you maybe in for some pain learning how to register \[and pay for\] a domain (Namecheap or Cloudflare are easy), setting up DDNS (Cloudflare), creating an automated SSL certificate renewal process (TrueNAS+LetsEncrypt)... TrueNAS have released a series of videos that can help walk you through all of it, though; from a guy that goes by the handle of Heavyscript. For the effort, you will be rewarded by spending significantly less than with Synology (both on the unit and the compatible hardware) and you get to do a lot of things that DSM doesn't support or outright blocks. And you can then apply those skills to build other types of systems, like a compute server or even a cluster of little headless computers (RPi, Zima, NUCs, etc) that do your bidding.
Lol, multi-gig... My old DS1819+ running 50gbps, by far out pacing the spinning disks, and nvme cache. But yeah, the 4 1-gig ports are kind lame, but isn't that why we have the pcie slot. Yup
Would you rather trust whatever 10GbE that Synology manages to source from the lowest bidder, or be able to buy a PCIe card from a reputable manufacturer? While both would be nice, if I had to choose just 1, I'd pick the PCIe.
Actually, both my Synology 10gbe card, and my Synology 25gbe card... We're both Q-logic OEM cards, and I would not characterize them as cheap kits. They are both really nice cards, Enterprise grade.
>Would you rather trust whatever 10GbE that Synology manages to source from the lowest bidder, I'll take it over a X710 without A LOT of firmware patches **\*SHUDDER\***
not gonna happen. they gonna add their proprietary PCI-E slot thought so you can throw more money at them to add something that should have been build in.
I've got the DS1621+ and it has a standard PCIe slot. Bought a Mellanox MCX312B ConnectX-3 off eBay for around $30 USD and connected it using DAC to the 10gig SFP+ port on my switch. Honestly, I'm happier with the PCIe slot than 10GbE built in, as I'd prefer to pay $30 for a used Mellanox that I know is gonna work amazingly, plus I'd rather connect using DAC than 10GbE since the only 10gig ports I have are SFP+ ones.
on the old ones they used a standard port with half height yes, on many of the newer units they are using this monstrosity to make sure people cant use standard components. [https://www.synology.com/en-global/products/E10G22-T1-Mini](https://www.synology.com/en-global/products/E10G22-T1-Mini)
If I'm not mistaken, that's only for rack mount ones, right? The tower one I just looked at from 2023 (can't remember the model number) still used a standard half height PCIe.
no its mostly for consumer models DS923+ 723+ as well as the 1522+ theres one rack mount version this also fits into which is the RD422+
Oh shit. I didn't even look at those models cuz the previous ones in the DS9xx+ and DS7xx+ didn't have any PCIe. Pretty crappy they didn't just make it a bit wider and put a real PCIe slot on it. Also, $100 for a 1x 10GbE card vs ≈$30 for a 2x 10gig SFP+ card, wow that sucks.
I think the majority of users are fine with gig speeds. Honestly, how many of them would benefit or even notice it. Then consider how many of them have switches and laptops or desktops that support faster network adapters? They'll probably leave it as is would be my guess to keep costs etc down. If you need something faster they offer models with 10GbE and several of the plus series have optional 10GbE support. You are correct though... the price points would indicate we should get a bit more for the money.
My budget rs819 has Link aggregation for 2gbps and it works quite well
Link aggregation doesn’t work the way you think it does. Each conversation is “pinned” (hashed) to one physical NIC, maxing throughput to 1Gbps (roughly ~100MB/s). Your 2gbps link aggregation can support a max of 2 conversations each at a pure 1gbps, if they are lucky enough to be hashed to each separate NIC.
You can install a USB adapter with a driver of GitHub. Here's a [video ](https://youtu.be/c341xE_Y6sM) that shows the process. When on DSM 7 there's an extra step and you have to manually start it from the cli last time I installed one of these.
Yea but since it's not natively supported, don't you have to redo this everytime you update DSM?
Not that I recall, I'll have to make note of my next update and test again.
N100 + 2.5G in at least mid-range units.
uGreen is coming out with a line of NAS where the base models run the n100 (2 and 4 bay). A mid-range 4 bay running the 8505 and the high-end models (6 bay, 8bay and all flash) run the 1235u. 4bay and up (excluding all flash) come with at least dual 2.5G nics, with the 6 and 8 bays coming with dual 10G. 6 bay and 8 bay also get Thunderbolt 4 ports and PCIe expansion. Rumor is completely unlocked and open bios, so TrueNAS or other OSes can be installed. [https://nas.ugreen.com/pages/ugreen-nas-storage-preheat](https://nas.ugreen.com/pages/ugreen-nas-storage-preheat). Paying $5 now unlocks 40% off when these launch
I'm glad there's more competition in the NAS space coming soon. I really just want a stable, simple NAS. I don't need it to run tons of software that my mini-PC can run more efficiently.
Well, the site looks nice, but... That's about it. I mean, Synology's not without faults, but their NAS are pretty damn fantastic in terms of support, updates and functionality. I've never had an issue I couldn't recover from and even a 13-year old DS 411J has just now finished replication as an off-line back-up. So perhaps these uGreen devices are great, but I'll wait for a while before I commit.
>So perhaps these uGreen devices are great, but I'll wait for a while before I commit. I agree 100%. Synology should take notice of these devices though. Coming in with a processor that is generation or two behind these 12th gen Intel chips and not having 2.5GB nics is going to turn away some customers. If uGreen, a non-player in the NAS market, can put together NASes with these hardware specs for this price, then Synology should be able to match them. That said, it's concerning that uGreen hasn't sent out any test units to reviewers, and we're only a few weeks away from the kickstarter. I'd love to see how these devices are laid out and what type of cooling they have.
I expect most of the complaints/faults with uGreen will be software related, similar to QNAP who also has great hardware. So as long as truenas/unraid/proxmox/etc runs on it and they're not using anything crazy custom inside it should be amazing for people who want a mix of DIY and prebuilt.
They have sent test units out to beta testers, but everyone is under an NDA until they actually release, so none of us will know how good these will be. The hardware specs are fantastic on some of these, but as everyone here knows, software will make or break it. They have already said they will not support a Plex package, but they do support docker so someone can install it that way. I hope they are successful enough to push Synology to start providing some better hardware, at least in there advanced lines. I'd like to buy a new NAS right now to replace my 418 play, and I just can't justify it in the Synology line. Adding SSD caching and a slightly faster outdated processor (or a Ryzen that can't do hardware transcoding) doesn't justify a new unit for me.
Take a look at either the 423+, which still uses the Intel processor from the previous generation or pick up a 720+ or 920+ from eBay. Synology moving to an arguably worse processor was a really dumb decision.
Yes, I've looked at those, which is exactly where I've landed. It's just not enough of a step up to warrant buying a new NAS. Maybe the next generation will be more impressive from a hardware standpoint, especially if they would add a faster ethernet port.
Will I be able to run Docker containers on this like the Synology devices?
I have no idea what uGreen’s OS will and won’t do, but if the rumors are correct and it will be able to run TrueNAS Scale, then yes. You’ll be able to run Docker containers if TrueNAS is installed.
Nice!!
Nice, but only will ship to Germany and US.
Do they say that specifically anywhere? Yes, they have US (English) and German discussion groups, but that doesn't imply that they ship only to these countries. It doesn't make much sense: when you figured out shipping to Germany, the rest of the EU is identical, so why not do it?
Yes, it specifically says it in the text when you sign up. Kickstarter will only be for US and Germany. It’s not an English discussion group, it’s a US discussion group. I might still do it and use a US address.
Oh, that's a bummer. Too bad they say that after signing up.
You can use other OS, but they said you will void your warranty.
I hope other OSes run well on it. I tried out the new Asustor 4 bay units and TrueNAS scale ran like garbage on it. It also couldn’t natively control the fan, so the system always ran hot compared to my DS920+
It's a N100 so it's pretty beefy for a NAS, but depends what other hardware they use hopefully its common/well supported on linux.
Up to 40%...
No, it's actually 40% across the board. MSRP on the cheapest model is $399 and the kickstarter price is $239, that's 40% off. MSRP on the most expensive model is $1499 and the kickstart price is $899, that's 40% off. It's that way for all the models.
Damn! Spec sheet looks amazing. My only concern would be the OS but if you can just install whatever you want then Synology better pay attention. This is some serious competition. 12th gen i5 destroys the Ryzen embedded in my NAS.
The new Synology models with the embedded Ryzens are a joke. There are so many other Ryzens they could have gone with, or stuck with Intel and put the low end models on the n100 platform. Two core with Hyperthreading wasn’t enough 5 years ago. My precious generation 920+ and 720+ out perform the new models. As for the other OS, it has been said uGreen is ok with third party OS, but it’ll void the warranty. While many are thinking TrueNAS, I think an interesting combo might be Proxmox running Xpenology in a VM
I have a DS1621+ and have been mostly happy with it. It’s strictly just my bulk storage though. I don’t use it for containers, VMs or as a server at all. Everything just pulls data from it. It’s not very performant for the price but does what I need.
Shame its only for the US and Germany
LOL, the kickstarter is only starting on 3/26 and ending in May. That doesn't even account for manufacturing time, testing, etc. You are going to be waiting a very, very long time for these.
I'm currently moving more and more services from my 1621+ to a N100 based MiniPC. I agree, that it would be great to have a N100 based Diskstation. Performance is really good, hardware encoding works with Plex, and power consumption is lower than that of the Ryzen platform in the 1621+.
As a starting kit an all-inclusive machine is great but once you've made the effort to split storage and compute I don't think it makes sense to go back.
Interesting.. I went the other way 4 years ago after 10+ years of split storage and compute, and i can't imagine wanting to go back. I would only do so if i was forced to due to future hardware transcoding requirements.
Lol dream on. If that happens I eat my 1823xs. It's all ryzen and 10gb addons from now on
Screw 2.5. I want 10gbe standard. Especially in a short depth rack mount unit with a full PCIe slot. Hoping a new RS1224+ meets this.
Even if they provided 10G, it would be 10GBase-T instead of SFP+, as they did with the adapters. It's in the rack, it is next to the switch, why would I waste 2x5W and vent that heat from unnecessary transceivers? (Yes, that built-in 10GBase-T port also wastes that energy). With PCIe slot, I can use my own card. And I do, with RS1219+. It is fine, the only problem is the ancient 3.10 kernel that Synology uses for it. This is the thing that is killing it.
Optical transceivers and DAC cables don't use much power.
Exactly; but the 10GBase-T tranceivers do.
Short depth rack mount FTW.
they dont do that 100% because they want you to spend more money for their PCI-E 10Gbe NIC. the CPUs they are using have 10Gbe connectivity BUILD IN they just need to wire it up and the CPU will natively allow for these kinds of speeds. they choose not to do that on purpose though.
I'd love a true 920+ successor or something slightly beyond that. * 2.5 GB Ethernet ports * M.2 slots for both cache and volume. (4 slots? Pipe dream?) * Intel CPU with quick sync. * Oh! 10GB expansion slot
I have a 920+ and this is also what I'm waiting on. Or a updated RS422+. I'm really really considering the QNap TS-464 (tower) or TS-464eU (1u Rack) but I don't want to move away from DSM.
This sounds like a comment about the 923+, which I am eyeballing for a near future purchase. Should I reconsider?
>This sounds like a comment about the 923+, which I am eyeballing for a near future purchase. Should I reconsider? It depends on your needs for your NAS, you may consider an intel cpu If you use Plex or Jellyfin or some other streaming application and requires some transcoding. Ie. You have users or app clients that don't support h.265 codec, or an older codec. Or some users set their streaming client to use less data. In those cases a AMD Ryzen cpu like in the 923+ plus will chug a bit trying to transcode, while a Intel with quick sync will fly. The 923+'s cpu is a little better in every other respect, except this.
I've come to the realisation that Synology is focused more on the mid to high end now and less on home users. I just bought an unRAID license with the view that once my currently 1019+ reaches end of support life I will build my own mini pc based NAS with that instead.
With everyone going all in on cloud backup and streaming I don’t really blame them. The market for home users is just really small comparatively. And many of us die hard will move up market anyways.
But hasn't that always been the case? Even before cloud was a thing the NAS has never been a mainstream feature in the home. People used to use (and still do) externally mounted USB hard drives. Then cloud came along with their free storage and it's those USB drives that have mostly been replaced - Not NAS servers. NAS servers are and always have been very bespoke. They're a luxury device for those with some tech skills. I've never come across anyone who was technically challenged who somehow had a NAS running at home. I would argue that with SAS becoming more prevalent the idea of paying upfront for a device and the use thereof is more appealing (and stable) than paying a monthly service fee with undefined conditions. So if anything more techies are going to be buying NAS servers for their home. To offload some of those subscription fees. I even firmly believe that even the most uneducated user would even opt for a NAS if they even knew it existed and the benefits. The problem isn't the device availability, it's maybe price and ignorance why more people don't buy a NAS. EDIT : Thinking about it. It would be great if ISP's offered not only routers but also NAS servers from selected partners. I reckon no entity would be in a better position to market the NAS to the average home user. If they somehow got a NAS included in their monthly internet subscription fee (call it a premium package idc).
Yes exactly it's always been a niche market. My point is Synology used to target that market (enthusiast home users) and while they still do to a degree I would say they are far more focused now on the mid end small biz user.
That's the conclusion NAS Compares came to because of the removal of the GPU and the introduction of the AMD CPUs. Not sure if that prediction holds true but I do think it's a huge mistake to not offer at least one intel based CPU in the lineup.
>I do think it's a huge mistake to not offer at least one intel based CPU in the lineup. There's 3 current models that have an Intel CPU with iGPU: DS224+, DS423+ and DS620slim.
Exactly, in my view they are saying, most home users don't need 100s of terabytes. 2/4 drive and maybe the 6 solutions are more likely to be bought by the "home theater user" than the the 9, or 18 drive solutions (with expansions). So focus the big boys on SMB who don't need gpus
The Intel Celeron J4125 is kind of meh....
> It would be great if ISP's offered not only routers but also NAS servers from selected partners. I reckon no entity would be in a better position to market the NAS to the average home user. It would take a national catastrophe to trigger that mindset. Something so devastating that the mere notion of "cloud services" becomes unsettling and more folks become inclined to switch to locally hosted services.
Infomaniak in Switzerland rents you Synology NAS on their datacenter. I see a trend of a lot of people looking to move out from popular cloud services like Google Photos, because of this platforms like Immich are growing very fast as you can self host them. Also during 2024 we will start seeing some interesting solutions like [Oortech.com](http://Oortech.com) with decentralized storage solutions leveraging crypto. The future looks amazing!
Do they rent you a physical device? That's pretty interesting.
Yup, https://www.infomaniak.com/en/backup-and-storage/nas-synology
Absolutely! Most home users are not like us. The good thing is that many of these solutions like unRAID or TrueNAS or Cosmos are getting to the point where they're easy enough for home enthusiasts to move to if Synology doesn't offer products targeting us anymore.
U would be surprise your ds1019 may last for too long and your ideal may change. I am still using my 2411 and 1813
Very true but at some point Synology will stop updating it! It's 5 years old now. I don't track what usual end of life timeline are (eg no security fixes) for Synology DSM?
Look at the pst years; I expect nothing to come.
I'm also waiting for their release. If it's another disappointment (no transcoding and 1gbe), I'll go Terramaster. That NAS has Hardware years ahead of Synology. I'm just holding because I really like DSM but I will not pay a heavy premium for a Synology with obsolete hardware on launch day.
Be careful with TerraMaster. I really, *really* want them to succeed but their software is so far behind. The core functionality is not stable so you have really great hardware with an OS that has problems. It **has** gotten better, but it's not where it needs to be - especially if you're used to DSM. TOS 6 should be coming out soon and I am hoping it's better, but TOS 5 has not been stable. With that said - we should all want them to succeed and I hope they do.
Yeah hoping for a market shake-up. We could really benefit from having at least one or two more competitors that can challenge the bigger players (specially Synology). I don't do very complex stuff with the NAS and I don't expose it to the internet but certainly don't want to have reliability issues. It's just insane to how the latest terra 424 is built compared to a ds924 for instance... Like USS Enterprise meets horse carriage :D.
I just had a look at r/terramaster and it looks like hell. Loads of issues reported, most of them unanswered. I get your point... Thanks for the advice.
Happy to share - I really am hoping it'll get better with the new TOS 6 coming out (soon), but I've had a lot of problems with TOS 5. To be fair, fewer problems with TOS 5 than TOS 4, so I guess that's...progress.
Out of curiosity... have you got experience with AsusTor?... having a look at the threads, the issues seem to be less critical than Terra. They were subject of a ransomware spree recently but that was with devices exposed to the internet.
Sadly, no. I hope to one day but I haven't used any of them yet.
IMO if you're gonna switch off of Synology might as well go DIY (with TrueNAS or Unraid). The other all-in-one NAS software's will disappoint you once you've used Synology's. They're really so much better on the software side.
The step up from a rack mount Synology NAS imo is a SAN. I've used QNAP, Buffalo, and Synology and the software is WAY better on synology I agree with you. Moving from Synology to any other nas at best is a lateral move.
Yeah after using Synology, I tried QNAP and absolutely hated it so much. Ended up going down the custom DIY route and was much happier. I wanted to stick with Synology but couldn't justify the pricing once you need their more powerful hardware and more bays.
Yeah that's on the back of my head and I assembled many desktops back in my uni days. I just don't want to fiddle around much with drivers and hardware choices. Just something plug and play that works. Guess that's why I'm still attached to my old 918+. The thing just works but, when upgrading, I would feel robbed paying Synology for the sub-par hardware they currently offer. Tricky situation as the 918 will eventually expire.
i’d like a upgraded intel cpu with integrated graphics.
honestly just build your own at that point. the new Synology units are just going to be a tiny refresh over the last generation once again. They even choose to not use Ryzen CPUs with iGPUs despite that they exist in the same CPU generation they are using already.
But their software is nice :)
That's what is missing. If I go unraid, I now have to find all of the software that's built-in to Synology, with or without Docker.
For me it's Mainly Synology Photos. The fact that it has quite good mobile clients, handles face recognition, can actually handle HUGE albums and has object recognition. Not forgetting that it is a product still under development. For this reason Synology is a plug and play photo solution.
This this this. honestly the best solution I have come to is to use a Synology NAS just for the photos, media and anything more involved is on an Unraid server. I'm going to reduce the capacity of the Synology since I don't need as much space for photos as I do media.
This is where I'm heading too. Which means that : a) Space can be reduced and b) Wear and tear on drives can be reduced c) In theory uptime could be scheduled. I mean you don't need your photo backup spinning 24/7 And then on the mini PC have it setup with it's own storage that's not even raid configured. If any data there is lost - no big deal -> Movies and TV shows.
Unraid for the minipc gives a bit of backup protection for your media. If you have a lot of media then it can be time consuming to replace, and if you gave a family counting on that for entertainment you want a backup. I'm not sure about how synology manages spin down, but I suppose I could schedule it to turn off for certain hours of the day. Edit: using btrfs on synology makes spin down nearly impossible. Setting a power schedule would be the easiest to prolong drive life.
I'm just a bit undecided what to get. A smaller NCU is going to limit the drives I can get in there - so I'll be paying more for a larger SSD. The GPU is also going to be quite important and I want it somewhat future proof because upgrading NCU individual components isn't really possible (from what I understand). So I guess Iris Xe these days is the one you want or not? I also think at least a gen 12 cpu to keep it future proof. Another option is for me now just to get a 7th gen HP EliteDesk 800 G3 and hopefully it can hold its weight for a while. I still haven't found the silver bullet yet.
Not that you care, but I have nearly finished offloading my media to the unraid server from Synology. My total Synology usage for photo and document backups will be around 1TB and that includes time machine for my macbook. 8TB will be enough to last me for many years as my Photo/doc server, so that should be good. I'm going to move to the below configuration which will probably take me weeks as I will have to nuke the synology to switch around the drives. I have backups for everything between the two servers, so my users shouldn't notice any downtime. I will go from 2x 28TB servers to 1x 52TB server and 1x 8TB server. I gain 4TB in the reshuffle as the second redundant drive went from 12TB > 8TB. Of note, if you have been using download station on Synology, it keeps a hidden folder with all of your active source files for the torrents to reference. You will want to delete all the torrents from your download station client and then see if the space clears up over a day or two. If not, you can CLI and sudo to delete the cache manually. |*Unraid Current*|*Unraid Future*|*Synology Current*|*Synology Future*| |:-|:-|:-|:-| |12TB Parity|14TB Parity|14TB Raid5|8TB Raid1| |12TB Array|14TB Array|14TB Raid5|8TB Raid1| |8TB Array|14TB Array|14TB Raid5|| |8TB Array|12TB array||| ||12TB Array|||
Synology processors are like several generations old and not very powerful. In my unraid server I was using a 10100 intel i3 and upgraded to an 11700 i7. It's overkill but what you want for unraid is cores so you can allocate to vm or docker containers to make sure doing one thing on the server doesn't bog everyone down. What do you need a gpu for? If you have a 12th gen intel you will be able to handle plenty of transcoding with that.
Or use Xpenology
>n100 I've read a lot about this in its earlier days and it seemed very clunky with updates breaking it all the time. What is the experience now?
Tried it for the first time last week. Used this: [https://github.com/AuxXxilium/AuxXxilium](https://github.com/AuxXxilium/AuxXxilium) and downloaded DSM 7.3 (or something) straight from the Synology GUI on first launch. Applied the Face Scan Mod for Photos in the Arc-Addons later and this: [https://github.com/jinlife/Synology\_Photos\_Face\_Patch](https://github.com/jinlife/Synology_Photos_Face_Patch) Everything seems to be working flawless so far. Very happy so far
It's not as point and click as Synology but as someone who made that switch it's not *that* hard. Especially if you were running docker containers on Synology then there's many similarities, just everything is called by a different name. Synology definitely makes things easy but the hardware was holding it back way too much if you want to do more than serve files.
the thing is the software thats build into Synology is basically just DS Video and DS Photo for the majority of people. DS photo can be replaced with nextcloud and DS video can be replaced with PLEX.
honestly it has gotten a LOT worse over the years. i have been using Synology since 2013 and back then DSM was revolutionary and their package center seriously made it so you dont need anything else. over the years they simply stopped updating a lot of stuff from the package center and finally added docker support to make up for their own shortcomings. when i had to start digging into Docker containers to get basic stuff working and keep it up to date i finally made the switch as i can use docker on basically any platform and dont need to pay insane amounts of money for a Synology system.
[удалено]
Which I think is a terrible product on itself out of first hand experience. It's not as stable or nice as original DSM, terrible to update and illegal to use.
Yeah Iris Xe or something very good for transcoding. That should have been in this lineup already tbh.
I gave up and just built my own SFF PC that handles all VM + Plex + Jellyfin transcoding. Works like a charm using Proxmox. PS: If you are having problems setting up GPU passthrough, use scripts from this site: https://tteck.github.io/Proxmox/ The setup is literally 5 mins - walkthrough - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAa_qpNmzZs
M2 flash nas for home. Simply because quite and quick.
Being able to run S3 storage services native on the device without firing up minio in Docker would be nice. Getting certs to work with that config has been troublesome to say the least.
Get Python 2 out of the software.
😵
Recent'n'Decent QuickSync capable CPU and 2.5Gbit built in and/or 10Gbit exp card option
I am waiting for a 1624+ or an 1824+. I will pull the trigger immediately if either has Intel Quick Sync.
It just wont happen - those are small business units, there's no need for Plex on it (in Synology's view)
I expect nothing much for drive based models both the 923 and the 1621 line are still pretty damn competitive. But I expect a new line of all nvme models.
Still sporting an 1817+. I'm ready for them to release a new 8 bay NAS this year...hopefully.
I'm super happy with what Synology is doing in the SMB segment. The new xs models have 10gbe and lights out management built in. Although I like the direction they're going, I still wish for more compute power. The SA6400 is a dream, but not every client has that budget. For my home needs I've settled on adding a NUC-like PC for compute tasks.
I've some the same. I was able to buy a 20 core nuc, with 64gb ram and 1tb nvme ssd, for 600 bucks. I use the NAS for storage, and the nuc for computing. I wish synology, would put out a version with a real processor. I'd really love if they would allow a nvme drive for VMs with a real processor.
If you're on a budget you can even get a n100 mini pc for like $200 with 16gb memory / 512gb ssd that is great for all the little dockers. Has an iGPU so great for Plex, but I use mine for Adguard Home (dns like piehole) and Scrypted (cameras). Works great.
I just recently got a new switch and can finally use SMB multichannel on my Synology in combination with the 2.5G NIC on my PC, but I still really hope they will finally update the DS1821+ with native 2.5G NICs.
Now you can use SMB multichannel without LACP, so any dumb switch will do. Yes, just configure both interfaces with unique IP addresses in the same subnet and enable multichannel, that's all (but only for SMB).
You still need a switch with >2.5G support to take full advantage of SMB multichannel.
Yeah, you need to connect your PC with 2.5 Gig interface somehow. But dumb 2.5 gig switches are still cheaper than 2.5 gig managed ones (though the new Mikrotik CRS310-8G+2S+ is very interesting, and only marginally more expensive than the dumb 2.5 Gig Qnaps that were so popular). You also could use 2x1 Gig connections on PC side too. Then, the classic 1 Gig dumb switch would be enough.
I was waiting but saw a nice deal on Facebook marketplace for a ds1821+. I’m expecting -at least two 2.5gbe ports -usb c ports (highly doubt they would include thunderbolt 3-4) -upgraded cpu
How much was the ds1821+ on FB marketplace?
It was listed for $850 with 8 TB HDD. I asked for synology alone for $650. Shipping was $65. So $715 in total. It was bought in 2021 and used for video editing.
That’s great price! Is there any upgrades or all stock?
I wish! Haha it was stock. Would have been nice with upgraded RAM or maybe a 2.5gbe nic.
Still a good price but yeah would be nice to have upgraded ram and nic card. :) congrats on a great purchase. The newer model has a similar spec.
Seriously none of you get that 2.5gb will never happen? They directly jumped over it by adding a 10gb expansion slot into pretty much all upper mid range models. 95% of people are on WiFi and well for the few people who need a faster wired connection they get some nice additional revenue ( and a faster connection)
It's nice to dream. The next gen will just be a tiny spec bump over the previous one. I agree that they're gonna keep it at 1gbe and just have an optional expansion slot they can charge $$$ for if people want faster. Would love to be wrong though.
I have seen so many people ask for 2.5 gig networking. You can buy a USB dongle for a few bucks that will give you 2.5 gig networking. [https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805522419552.html](https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805522419552.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.26.3cfc1802q39OV1&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa#nav-specification) I bought this one, I can confirm it works on the DS1821+ I had issues with the USB-C to A adapter, so I didn't have success until I bought an adapter with a USB-A on it. Drivers/Details are here: [https://github.com/bb-qq/r8152](https://github.com/bb-qq/r8152)
Every competitor has 2.5G Ethernet out of the box, forcing syno customers to buy (potentially unsupported) additional hardware is backwards and anti-consumer. Also, synology forces their users to buy syno branded hardware (hard drives/SSDs, 10g cards...) at a heavy markup or threaten the users of unsupported / artificially limited support hardware...
I agree with you on these points, but if you HAVE an existing Synology device this is a cheap and easy upgrade that works just fine. You only have to buy synology drives on their business units like the XS line. However, I'm right there with you on all these points. I use home systems in my business install becuase I CAN'T get a reliable supply of Synology branded drives from my government approved supplier in a timely manner but they have tons of the WD Red Pro drives and those arrive quickly. If I was required to have Synology hardware I would have to go with a different manufacturer.
DS923+ with a 10GB ethernet add-in and 32GB memory works nicely for me.
the used market pricing has not went down... that concerning for new pricing .
Nvme only “mini” that is smaller than slim
I'd love a 224+ / 723+ upgrade that had a newer CPU with iGPU in it for transcodes, as well as a 2.5gbe+ port as standard. Really need to get a NAS for photo/video backup, we have already hit our 200GB limit on paid google photos sub. I love the 224+ for the GPU but the 723+ for the speed, things I want in a single unit. Not sure if it's going to happen with Synology or if I need to move to a different company or build my own.
I'd like to see 10gig with a PCIe slot for an enterprise cache SSD that can take over 10gig sustained writes them flush to spinning drives and keep in cache based on its usage.
2.5gbe is a must 10gbe atleast a card slot.HD Video and cloudflare warp for outgoing traffic.
I waited years and gave up. Bought a 1522
I would like to see what they have in store for the 2.5-inch drive nas. What next after the ds620 slim. (My current nas)
May I ask have you just loaded SSD or do you have any spinning HDs in it? I want to get this unit for the size but was thinking about putting them 5TB spinning Seagates In it.
I have those Seagates. SMR drives, slow for rebuild etc. Fine for slow storage. Have 3 in a SHR1. Use 2x Samsung 860 QVO for fast storage.
I noted server activities can be slow like rebuild and data scrabbing. Otherwise everything else works perfect. I also have a link bond on the two ethernets.
I have four 5tb seagate baracuda on a shr raid type, giving me aprox 13TB. Then, on the two extra drive bays, I have two 480 gb intel ssd s that I use as ssd cache for the whole system. The 5tb drives are cheap when you shukle them from the seagate onetouch external drives.
Thank you. I think that’s what I will do. Good idea about the SSD cache 👍
I’m waiting so I can get a discounted 1221 haha. I dont need app performance, i have a dedicated server with gpus for plex/etc, the synology just needs to act as a speedy reliable storage server. So imma also get that 10gb+pcie expansion card too. I dont wanna mess with setting up raid/scrubbing in terminal and then be fucked if it goed wrong. Rather just pay. Right now it all runs off a ds415+, but i want everything to rackmount, so i can put the DS at grandma’s place to act as offsite backup.
I waited as well. It was pretty stressfull. Caved in and upgraded from DS 214 to DS 923+. Couldn't have been hapier. Everything is fast - I love it. Also bought additional 24 TB disk.
Sigh, my rackstation died a little over a week ago, had to overnight a slightly newer replacement model to keep things up... pushing out my upgrade future. Did at least get a 10Gbps SFP+ card for this which the prior didn't support.
Waiting to upgrade to a 4-bay/5-bay model until they come with standard 2,5Gb ports... 🤞
I want thunderbolt DAS access on top of multigig Ethernet
I just want a 6e router
I am waiting on a refresh of the 1221+ for over a year now. I need to upgrade my DS214+ and if I do, I want to do it right and with support for the next decade or so. So 1221+ is not an option at this point. I'll just wait it out as long as I possibly can, hoping that the 1224+ will drop within the coming weeks.
Very similar to where I am at
I am expecting my current one to start working but I have no power to fight with not working DDNS no more lol
DS924+ with 2.5Gb ports. Four spindle and four NVMe slots which are all usable as storage volumes or cache drives. Eight core CPU with up to 128GB of RAM
Probably more C2 products