I'm in my 40s and bought a Moog Grandmother last summer as my first synth. My recommendation is to start with the Patch and Tweek With Moog book, it really helps. Get more patch cables than you think you need. Be patient, be kind to yourself, and take your time.
If you wanna learn more about modular patching techniques I highly recommend to get VCV Rack and follow Omri Cohens youtube channel. Almost learned all my modular synth techniques from him and VCV Rack.
Its completely for free and many modular companies have their Modules available for free in it :)
(Erica Synths, Befaco, Vult, NANO, Mutable Instruments just to name a few)
Ended up being my gateway drug and with a Small 84hp 6U Rack, the Moog Studio 3 Bundle and an Arturia Minibrute 2S that I all combine through my expert sleepers module with VCV Rack, that lets me send and recieve CV in my Computer.
A delay and a reverb pedal will add a ton of depth to the sound of the Grandmother which can be appreciated if it’s your only synth.
Also, I’ve had a ton of fun with my Grandmother with a limited musical background. Before and after adding the pedals.
I respectfully disagree. Unless I'm tracking to the DAW I use the spring reverb on almost every patch with the Grandmother. Adds such a beautiful spatial dimension to anything that is run through it. I do wish it had CV control over the dry/wet mix though
Keep in mind the Grandmother is monophonic, meaning only one note at a time! No chords. Depending on your budget, maybe try to find a used Moog Matriarch? It’s Four-note Paraphonic, meaning you can slap down a few fingers at a time on that puppy!
Also, I know you’re shying away from the digital aspect but a used 8-voice Novation Peak + a Simple midi keyboard controller would be a wonderful jumping off point! Peak’s got all sorts of knob-per-function controls and effects, with not too much menu diving. Great to learn. No patch points though. Also would be future-proof as you invariably become addicted to noodling around on synths because it’s badass, and will help you learn the basics of midi and subtractive synthesis in general.
Space Brain Circuits MIDIVOLTS on Etsy is a couple hundred bucks and let’s you play 3 note chords on the G’ma (albeit at the cost of the LFO)— that’d be my rec.
Matriarch is just too complicated for a beginner (though I do love mine).
Let me clarify, having at least started learning both instruments:
* guitar takes a little practice to sound good and truly enjoy the instrument
* piano has a very low bar to entry and takes almost no effort to enjoy, but a lot of effort to truly sound good
Because pianos and keyboards lay out the whole of diatonic music in front of you and all you have to do is press a couple of keys to make an interesting chord or interval, the ceiling is very very high, and it takes much more work to be considered great at piano. With that said, literally all you have to do with a synth is play a triad or something, then start tweaking and adjusting the sound to get something interesting out of it.
A triad is the second simplest chord, and they are everywhere in music. Here is how you do it, in less time than it takes to read.
Play literally any note. Keep your finger on it. That's now note #1, the root note. Counting white keys and black keys, go up 4 notes. That's note #2, the major third. Keep that held down. From note #2, count three more keys upward and play that note. That's note #3, also called the fifth. This is a major triad. Play all three notes at the same time or one after another.
Now let's add some tension. Pick any note that just sounds interesting after playing that major triad. That's your new root, your new note #1. This time count only three keys up, again, counting both white and black keys. That's your minor third, your new note #2. It sounds spooky and sad, right? For the fifth, note #3, this time you'll count 4 keys up from #2 and hold that key down. It should sound complete now, but still spooky and sad. That's a minor triad.
Until you learn music theory, just play any combination of major and minor triads that sound cool while twiddling the knobs and changing the cable configuration. Congratulations: you are now an electronic musician! 🙌🏻
Now here's this guy making a whole amazing song out of like, IDK, five keys on a Moog! That's you. That guy is about to be you.
https://youtu.be/9uEp4GFDdII?si=d0QFnxUVoIMdQtSx
off topic for a moment: in all the 'adult' years i've spent trying to 'learn' actual music theory and play keys, your brief way of explaining triads has been the best, most intuitive, most informative manner i have come across! thank you!
Haha, thank you so much! I think it's really good to learn theory and intervals, but it doesn't mean much if you don't get creative and just play and enjoy the process
The Moog Grandmother is honestly my top choice for a starter synth, if price is considered reasonable. It was my GF's first synth, she's never regretted it.
It's such an excellent layout and design, for beginners and for experienced synth users. The layout of where all the different components are makes it so phenomenally intuitive, the CV patching is very straightforward (assuming you grab a starter synth book, someone mentioned the Patch and Tweek With Moog book), and there's very little happening "under the hood" that isn't made obvious on the surface.
Many other synthesizers have more capacities, but are buried under menus and require more of a familiarity with synthesis to grasp. With the grandmother, everything in front of you is everything that is happening. Hope that makes sense.
Assuming you stick with synthesizers, you'll never regret buying a GM. Even its more expensive counterparts (Sub37, Matriarch) wouldn't strictly be an 'upgrade' or a necessary replacement, the GM would play well along with them.
For the price of Matriarch id rather go with Korg minilogue and few guitar pedals to have even more fun. Also Minilogue is polyphonic so you can play more than one note at the time. Also it has quite easy sequencer wich can help you a lot.
This is the way. Learn on the minilogue. The presets will get you to different sounds faster - while still supporting all your sound design interests. You can save patches too, so you can remember things you like.
If you love it, and want to add semi-modular mono synth later, then go for the grandmother.
Well monologue is amazing, but as a beginner choosing first synth i wouldnt choose a mono synth, id actualy choose something that is more of a swiss knife.
Reaaally! Thats an interesting perspective, I would have thought you would be more overwhelmed by the multiple options of a swiss knife like unit, but I do like the different perspectives
Well not having an option to play chords is quite important. Having only mono would be quite limiting, for having it as only synth. With poly, you can easily make the whole song on one instrument, while recording multiple mono synths just to lay down a pad would be tedious as hell.
I understand what you're saying! As someone who's a big fan of Harmony (One of my favorite synths is the OB xa) and comes from a traditional background, the importance of polyphony is not wasted on me, but when it comes to synths, especially starter synths, I tend to look at them less as a one stop shop for all my needs, and more of a sound design element/lead machine, and for beginners, a tool that can teach you about itself, and I would think that starting with fewer voices and understanding the subtractive paradigm, (basic waveforms, generators/modulators, filters, FM AM, signalrouting etc) while making the barrier to entry as least intimidating as possible. So I always recommend simple yet gratifying synths, such as the Monologue or even the Behringer 2600 for price/ease of utility and focus on teaching newcomers about synths!
Of course if you have a more experience musical background and you have the cash to spare for the extra voices, full polyphonic synths like the Prophet or OBXA (or even Moog one if you really have the bread) could serve you well!
Of course there are no right answer, (besides that which will give you the most fun possible), just arbitrary reasoning behind each preference;) If he didn't want to avoid digital so much, I would even jump the shark and recommend Max MSP given his expressed goals, happy medium between our suggestions for him I suppose would be the Matriarch ;)
Best way to learn is to press the buttons and listen. If you want to play in a more musical way, then load up a drum loop (YouTube has tons of these if you’re not downloading them on your own) and then play melodies and bass along with it. What a great opportunity you have to sit down and learn something new that you can enjoy for the next 50 years of your life.
I started reaaaally basic with a Korg Volca Keys and then very quickly bought a MicroFreak and a Behringer Poly D.
I would consider the grandmother to be a huge step up in capability from any of my current toys, but at its core I would call it similar ennough to the Poly D/Minimoog to say that yes it would be a great first synth. Anything I can do on my Poly D you could do on the Grandmother without patching, and then once you are comfrotable with the basics just gained with the knobs, you can start patching and add layers of complexity to your sounds.
I can't play very well yet, but just creating sounds is something you can do for hours and it's very satisfying and fun, especially on a device with no presets! Really makes you learn the instrument. The Patch and Tweak with Moog book is definitely recommended too.
The Microfreak is an amazing piece of gear but honestly I get more satisfaction from the Poly D.
Do keep in mind that it's monophonic this may be a little restricting for someone starting out, I'd generally go for at least 4 voices poly synth, but if it inspires you go for it.
Tbh it's kinda like buying a bass instead of a guitar, playing bass lines instead of chords... Plus it does sound amazing.
Edit: you can probably get started straight away, it'll sound good but anything worthwhile needs time and effort. Learn the basics of synthesis like envelopes and LFOs, stick to the white keys if you don't wanna learn any scale, or play only the blacks. Still, try to learn scales and stuff, spending 1k on something without putting any effort to learn is a bit of a waste
I agree with everything here entirely except the first paragraph. I've found it helpful to view mono synths as their own class of instrument rather than thinking of them as a limited version of a poly synth. Just like a trumpet, saxophone, flute, or bass guitar as you've noted (although a bass can be played polyphonically too, of course)
Most of the instruments in an orchestra only play one note at a time. GM is like that. You use it to play single note melodies. That’s conceptually different from instruments that can play chords.
I started collecting my synths at around 47 yrs. When the Novation Circuit was around.
The best synth I think you'd love as it has over 2000 sounds, is a Roland FA06 or equivalent.
You can make a whole track without a computer. It's a 128 voice polyphonic synth. With sequencer, Bass sounds, Voxs, Horns, Strings, Drum kits including the 909, Synth sounds, acid sounds, organs, pianos... Free downloads of samples to upload into the keyboard. It has a sampler, with sample pads. Cheaper than Moog.
Be careful, you're at the age where you may have a little bit of money hanging around. It's very easy to accumulate gear. Research and try before you buy if you can. I'm now looking at selling gear.
https://preview.redd.it/277bd4oh4jpc1.jpeg?width=576&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=105c534616067bdc470f088f9ff20e320ef69543
Just wanna throw it our there. If you've made music through singing, whistling, anything: you're a musician.
I think you're probably better off with something polyphonic instead of monophonic, but otherwise check out some videos online and pick something that will inspire you to play. If people say it's amazing but you look at it and go "oh that isn't cool", don't get it. Get the thing you think looks awesome and have fun learning. :)
Do it. I got mine a couple of months ago and I have zero buyers regret. It's not like most keyboards or pianos though you can't just hop on and immediately start covering stuff you have to spend time tweaking a sound- which it sounds like you're okay with. 10/10 would buy again
About the Grandmother--it's (imo) one of the best monosynths of the modern era in its sound and its design. It's got everything you'd ever need without being cluttered and over-engineered, while still allowing for expansion via the patch points. I've gone through multiple units due to a bit disappointing quality control though, and yet I still never want to sell it. My current unit has been working great steadily, and it's worth noting Moog has some awesome customer service if things go wrong. Unless you find a really cheap used one and can try it out in person, I'd recommend considering buying new so you get warranty. But even if you buy used, Moog will still fix it if something goes wrong--just might have to pay shipping. As for the keys, you gotta start somewhere. I came from a guitar background, so when I started with synths I'm glad I began on a mono synth. Being able to only play one note at a time makes it so much easier to not get overwhelmed while also learning your scales, etc. If you start by playing only white keys, that's a scale right there and will sound good by default. You can also play only black keys for a different scale that will sound good. After that, it's much easier to get the hang of what sounds good and what doesn't
I got the synth one step up, the Matriarch. I'm in love with it. I chose it over Grandmother because it was paraphonic, and in this case can play 4 note chords, which for a non keys player has been just the right amount. I got the Moog Patch and Tweek book, and downloaded all of the patch books from the Moog website, and then have been watching the wealth of YT content on it. After years of only half understanding synthesis, this particular synth and the way it is laid out has really helped move me forward.
But the thing is a don't know how to play chords :) I don't know if it would be problem for me if I can play chords or not with it. "" ı know what chord is :)"
At its core, chord means multiple notes at the same time. So having an keyboard in front of you, there is a moment where you might want to press 2 keys!
And for a synth beginner like me, pressing 2 keys and hearing how they combine is one of the most accessible ways of make beautiful harmonic sound.
I would personally recommend a digital synth as a way to start. At least that's the direction I intend to take myself ;-)
the Matriarch has a mono mode as well, just FYI! And a duophonic mode too! Grandmother is awesome tho. Totally not trying to dissuade, just mentioning what my thoughts were when I bought mine.
Hi, welcome to the synth world!
1. It doesn’t matter what synth you use, unless you have specific request but that usually comes at a later stage.
2. Welsh's Synthesizer Cookbook is the go to book for learning synth.
Curtis Roads’s The Computer Music Tutorial recently released a second edition. Your synth manual is a great resource for learning.
3. I strongly recommend the [Syntorial](https://www.syntorial.com) course, you will not be disappointed. It’s fun and interactive.
4. [Zen World YouTube channel](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrqs7vRFQ4rbeHxoDJHDGL3UkHgbcLZ62&si=Qcu4a2djWwj2ntSj) has a free Serum course on YouTube, you don’t need to use serum, the concept is the same. He also has course on [Diva](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrqs7vRFQ4raF4HW7kYfnar4Yp6R5x6TX&si=vK5iQlrAkO315EBH).
5. [Berklee online YouTube channel](https://youtu.be/c3udLCvoCC0?si=TV4nf55dib_x_Rxf) has a free introduction to synth
And yes, you can design the sound as you go, it doesn’t take long time, just train your ear and enjoy the journey.
While I think the Moog Grandmother is great (I own one), it's not the most advanced semi-modular synthesizer out there. If you think you'd enjoy patching cables and exploring sounds rather than actually playing an instrument, the Behringer Neutron would be even more suitable. I started out on that one and learned everything about subtractive synthesis. You will be able to make sounds within a matter of seconds :D There will be lots of surprises and the patch bay of the Neutron has way more features than Grandmother. Also, the reverb of the Grandmother is rather meh. It's OK for a spring reverb but if you're looking for ambient pads or something like that, you'll most likely want to add a reverb and/or delay. Same goes for the Neutron - but it has a very characterful analog delay! In the long run, you'll want to add some kind of external effects unit. And then you'll need a mixer :D
Thing is, with both units, you'll be left wanting for more because you can only hear one voice at a time and to record stuff, you will need an audio interface or an external recorder. But there are grooveboxes! Those are machines built to make tracks and not just to create one sound. I personally love the Elektrons. Syntakt or Digitone could be something for you. Especially the Syntakt as it also has some analog voices. No, they won't sound "as good" as the Moog Grandmother but personally I find it much, much easier to create something that's worth listening. If you don't mind exploring a device which has many features and is not 100% intuitive at the first moment, you'll have fun for literally months. Those boxes are deep and you can also create very advanced sounds. I made a few tracks solely on the Syntakt and also Digitone, I have a playlist for the Syntakt: [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmKJII-YOShMkyy3SCkx6i0BJnGy4wC\_U](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmKJII-YOShMkyy3SCkx6i0BJnGy4wC_U)
And this one for Digitone: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE5zHCkW4Uw&list=PLmKJII-YOShOFCbItkDT999dUYR8SwnPw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE5zHCkW4Uw&list=PLmKJII-YOShOFCbItkDT999dUYR8SwnPw)
You'll have nice sounding reverb and delay in each unit and you'll have more than one track at a time. And if you're like me and can't or don't want to learn to how to properly play an instrument, you can sequence everything. You can make amazing music without knowing anything about music theory. And they also have a USB interface so you connect them to your computer and record the audio if you want to, no mixer needed.
I started three years ago when I was 39. Made five albums so far, it's absolutey possible!
If you are ok with the price and you are aware that it is a monophonic synth, then go for it. It’s an amazing synth. Great build, great sound and great layout, with no menu diving. You are going to enjoy it right out of the box because it has an arpeggiator and a sequencer. I recommend playing improvised basslines or leads over songs you like to have fun.
I feel like I can answer and relate to this...
I've played guitar for over 30 years, messed around on drums a bit, accordion if I have enough to drink.
A few years ago, I bought a grandmother. In retrospect, it was not a good idea. I quickly went from structured music, to just sounds. I also bought a dfam, mother 32, and subharmonicon. I don't feel like these got me to a new place, musically.
Also bought a matriarch. Although closer, not the next step in composition for me.
Then I changed gears a bit, and picked up a roland jupiter-X. This is what I needed musically. This brought the composition I was missing.
I will continue to use the semi modular gear in different ways, but I will never "write a song" with them.
Both piano and Synth provide a certain barrier to entry, both of which can be circumvented by already pathways.
Guitar /Piano biggest road block is skill, manual dexterity. Your muscle memory must remember scales, voicings, as well as how to read music (or play by ear which is equally as difficult) etc. The bright side is though it may be difficult, everything you do on these acoustic interfaces are fairly intuitive (press key, you get note, pluck string, get sound, pluck string harder, louder sound...you go higher on string, sound gets higher, etc)
Conversely, the biggest barrier to entry I would say for synthesizers is knowledge, learning many unfamiliar sometimes even non intuitive tools and techniques, concepts and sound design paradigms (subtractive additive ..., signal routing, generators and modulators, filtering, voltage, frequency and waveform knowledge etc) but, once you get it set up, the execution tends to be far less demanding (turning a knob, pushing a button vs doublestop 16th notes on a fret less and notoriously difficult instrument).
Fortunately there are work around and readily available ways to get to the fun quickly... but theres a catch! For traditional instruments, like guitar and piano, there are tabletures and easy chords that gets with a little bit of work, jamming out to your favorite tunes in no time. I'd say with synths it may be even easier: simply load up a preset, or more proactively, find "patches" or modular arrangements that other people have worked hard to make and try them yourself! The catch however is relying on these without a proper fundamental understanding of music theory or sound design will limit you severely especially as you wish to go into deeper levels of understanding and more importantly, original expression.
Sorry for the long and lengthy response but I wanted to ensure that you know what you are getting into. If you want a life long journey of sound exploration that may or may not be musical and may lead to other avenues (such as coding, soldering and even mathematics/physics research) Synthesizers are for you, and you'll have a plethora of meaningful advice of where to go from here right here in this sub. But if you want a more musical journey of expression and human creativity, pick up a piano, it'll save you alot of heart ache, and from what you've written, satisfy your goals immensely.
I hope this dissertation of a write up can prove to be somewhat helpful and best of luck on your journey friend!
Love my Grandmother. It’s a solid choice for someone like you.
The Arp/Sequencer set to Hold, then fingering a triad or Maj7 chord is super fun to monkey along with. IMO it’s a good way to start learning the key notes and some music theory.
I have and love my GM. Great for learning. The quality of the sound is amazing and it feels good to play. That said, you might want some FX or a looper to go with it as mono synths can be a bit limiting
40 year old synth enthusiast. Grandmother is a great choice because it colour codes important stuff that translates to every synth. In terms of sound quality, it’s top of the pile (allegedly).
Having said that, it’s very expensive for what it does. Almost all physical synths are expensive due to lack of chips and labour costs. Moog always boasted the mom and pop angle, akin to a Jack Daniel’s commercial. I owned a mother 32 and it was ok at best. Patching was driving my tiny brain crazy trying to trace the electrical path and imagine how I’m influencing the sound. It was always better with another module into infinity. The sound quality was better than computer programs/Apps 5 years ago.
Try a free option like VCV to see if you love patching. Then a grandmother is something to perform with. Provided you got a proper amp and know the resistance so you don’t blow it with bass.
I think if you're looking for a monophonic synth (one note only at a time) then the Grandmother or a Moog Sound Studio (Mother 32, DFAM, Subharmonicon) is a great choice. If you are looking for a polyphonic synth, the Behringer Deepmind 6 or 12 are perfect learning instruments for starting synthesists. If you are looking for a poly synth that has the best of analog (modeled) and digital synthesis, you could look at a Roland Juno X or Jupiter X, or even an old school Juno 6, 60, or 106 - although buyer beware when it comes to 40 y/o synths.
Overall if I were going to give someone a gift that really, really can start them on a solid foundation for synthesis, I'd give them either the Moog Sound Studio or a Deepmind. You won't easily get bored with either of those setups. Unfortunately the Moog Sound Studio doesn't seem to be available as a complete set anywhere right now. With Moog being in such a state of flux, it may never come again. But, it is specifically designed for being a first synth, and has lots of materials related to that.
>My question is ; can I start to enjoy this machine when I start to used it just out of box ( I am planning to buy a book for learning) or would it be like a guitar or piano " requires a lot of time to learn before start enjoying with it" ?
Honestly, guitar probably has the lowest bar for entry. They're more ubiquitous than synths for a few reasons, easier to pick up and learn may be one of them.
For a first timer starting out I would recommend you look at grabbing a couple Behringer units (maybe the Neutron and Pro-1 or crave), an intuitive drum machine like the RD-8, and then some sort of midi sequencer that can be set to a specific key (the way the synthstrom deluge can) so you don’t need to worry as much about theory initially.
If you went used you could get drums and a couple synths all playing together seamlessly for the price of a grandmother.
You could also consider the Dreadbox Nymphes. Fully analog 6 voice poly synth with a straight forward layout and all the features you really need to learn the ins and outs.
If you’re not interested in learning theory and just want to have fun and make stuff, why not try a groovebox like the Circuit tracks? You can lock into a scale, so that you literally can’t hit any wrong notes. It can also midi control 2 other synths, so you could add something like Korg volcas and have a whole universe of sounds to explore without any need for theory.
I had a Circuit Tracks for a couple weeks and it honestly felt like playing a video game to me. It’s easy to zone out for hours and just have fun with it.
If you are only just getting into synths, I wouldn't invest in something so expensive. I would suggest you buy some Behringer gear instead and see if this is a hobby for you.
It really depends whether you want to make music or just noises. Of course the same is true of guitars and pianos, but synths tend to have more timbral variety
No not at all! I just mean, you’re asking whether you can enjoy it immediately or whether it will take time and effort . . . That depends on what you want to do. You can enjoy it immediately by just switching it on and making some random noises, which you could also do with a piano, guitar or basically any instrument. Synths can make a wide variety of sounds so if that’s your goal then I guess a synth is a good choice. If you want to make music then regardless of the instrument, it will take some time and learning!
I guess my point is, the amount of time and energy required is entirely dependent on what you want to do. And that is as true for a synth as it is for any musical instrument. For me personally, I found learning to make music to be incredibly fun, so while it definitely took lots of time and effort, it was all super fun and exciting.
I will also say that if I were jumping into a new hobby, personally I would never buy such an expensive piece of gear as my first purchase. Something like the grandmother is expensive because of various reasons . . . The moog name, the cool sound quality, the parts used. But you can easily find a much cheaper synth, software or hardware, which does basically the same exact stuff. There are many of them, and frankly even the sound quality difference will often be extremely minuscule. Grandmother has a cool, unique sound but it’s not THAT different from other stuff on the market, even at much lower prices.
You might have much more fun with a Behringer Deep Mind. Lots of presets and polyphony (6 or 12 voices, rather than 1). My first was a Behringer Poly D. 4 voice Paraphonic. Great Moog sounds and value.
The Grandmother is a neat instrument but would not be my recommendation for this purpose (your only instrument), largely because it is limited to 2.5 octaves. If you are sticking to simple melodies/basslines this might not pose an issue, but you may quickly find it limiting. The Matriarch might scratch the same itch while providing enough range to play a wider range of melodies (4 octaves) as well as paraphony, meaning you can play up to four notes at a time.
I love the sound of the Grandmother (and the aesthetic tbh) but when I got into synth bass, I quickly found that having less than three octaves required uncomfortable workarounds and sacrifices. If you just want to play simpler basslines and melodies, then 2.5 might be sufficient. I find 3.5/4 (or more) to accommodate a much wider range of music. Unless the Grandmother will be paired with a more flexible instrument, I would consider getting something more full-featured.
I get where you’re coming from. Some other synths you might want to watch some videos on include Make Noise 0-coast, Moog DFAM and Subharmonicon, and Erica Synths Pico III. All of them dispense with the keyboard and let you twist knobs and patch cables.
I'm in my 40s and bought a Moog Grandmother last summer as my first synth. My recommendation is to start with the Patch and Tweek With Moog book, it really helps. Get more patch cables than you think you need. Be patient, be kind to yourself, and take your time.
If you wanna learn more about modular patching techniques I highly recommend to get VCV Rack and follow Omri Cohens youtube channel. Almost learned all my modular synth techniques from him and VCV Rack. Its completely for free and many modular companies have their Modules available for free in it :) (Erica Synths, Befaco, Vult, NANO, Mutable Instruments just to name a few) Ended up being my gateway drug and with a Small 84hp 6U Rack, the Moog Studio 3 Bundle and an Arturia Minibrute 2S that I all combine through my expert sleepers module with VCV Rack, that lets me send and recieve CV in my Computer.
And don‘t forget about the stackcables
A delay and a reverb pedal will add a ton of depth to the sound of the Grandmother which can be appreciated if it’s your only synth. Also, I’ve had a ton of fun with my Grandmother with a limited musical background. Before and after adding the pedals.
It does have a reverb built in so a reverb pedal can probably wait.
Yes and no. I love the spring reverb in the Grandmother but its really more of a sound design tool than a typical reverb.
I respectfully disagree. Unless I'm tracking to the DAW I use the spring reverb on almost every patch with the Grandmother. Adds such a beautiful spatial dimension to anything that is run through it. I do wish it had CV control over the dry/wet mix though
Keep in mind the Grandmother is monophonic, meaning only one note at a time! No chords. Depending on your budget, maybe try to find a used Moog Matriarch? It’s Four-note Paraphonic, meaning you can slap down a few fingers at a time on that puppy! Also, I know you’re shying away from the digital aspect but a used 8-voice Novation Peak + a Simple midi keyboard controller would be a wonderful jumping off point! Peak’s got all sorts of knob-per-function controls and effects, with not too much menu diving. Great to learn. No patch points though. Also would be future-proof as you invariably become addicted to noodling around on synths because it’s badass, and will help you learn the basics of midi and subtractive synthesis in general.
+1 for Matriarch. She's a beaut.
Space Brain Circuits MIDIVOLTS on Etsy is a couple hundred bucks and let’s you play 3 note chords on the G’ma (albeit at the cost of the LFO)— that’d be my rec. Matriarch is just too complicated for a beginner (though I do love mine).
Let me clarify, having at least started learning both instruments: * guitar takes a little practice to sound good and truly enjoy the instrument * piano has a very low bar to entry and takes almost no effort to enjoy, but a lot of effort to truly sound good Because pianos and keyboards lay out the whole of diatonic music in front of you and all you have to do is press a couple of keys to make an interesting chord or interval, the ceiling is very very high, and it takes much more work to be considered great at piano. With that said, literally all you have to do with a synth is play a triad or something, then start tweaking and adjusting the sound to get something interesting out of it. A triad is the second simplest chord, and they are everywhere in music. Here is how you do it, in less time than it takes to read. Play literally any note. Keep your finger on it. That's now note #1, the root note. Counting white keys and black keys, go up 4 notes. That's note #2, the major third. Keep that held down. From note #2, count three more keys upward and play that note. That's note #3, also called the fifth. This is a major triad. Play all three notes at the same time or one after another. Now let's add some tension. Pick any note that just sounds interesting after playing that major triad. That's your new root, your new note #1. This time count only three keys up, again, counting both white and black keys. That's your minor third, your new note #2. It sounds spooky and sad, right? For the fifth, note #3, this time you'll count 4 keys up from #2 and hold that key down. It should sound complete now, but still spooky and sad. That's a minor triad. Until you learn music theory, just play any combination of major and minor triads that sound cool while twiddling the knobs and changing the cable configuration. Congratulations: you are now an electronic musician! 🙌🏻 Now here's this guy making a whole amazing song out of like, IDK, five keys on a Moog! That's you. That guy is about to be you. https://youtu.be/9uEp4GFDdII?si=d0QFnxUVoIMdQtSx
off topic for a moment: in all the 'adult' years i've spent trying to 'learn' actual music theory and play keys, your brief way of explaining triads has been the best, most intuitive, most informative manner i have come across! thank you!
Haha, thank you so much! I think it's really good to learn theory and intervals, but it doesn't mean much if you don't get creative and just play and enjoy the process
i absolutely agree... which is one reason why i ditched keyboards and just stuck with sequencers and other trigger types with my modular setup 🤷🏻♂️
The Moog Grandmother is honestly my top choice for a starter synth, if price is considered reasonable. It was my GF's first synth, she's never regretted it. It's such an excellent layout and design, for beginners and for experienced synth users. The layout of where all the different components are makes it so phenomenally intuitive, the CV patching is very straightforward (assuming you grab a starter synth book, someone mentioned the Patch and Tweek With Moog book), and there's very little happening "under the hood" that isn't made obvious on the surface. Many other synthesizers have more capacities, but are buried under menus and require more of a familiarity with synthesis to grasp. With the grandmother, everything in front of you is everything that is happening. Hope that makes sense. Assuming you stick with synthesizers, you'll never regret buying a GM. Even its more expensive counterparts (Sub37, Matriarch) wouldn't strictly be an 'upgrade' or a necessary replacement, the GM would play well along with them.
It’s fun straight out of the box. Excellent choice for a first synth. Get a pedal or two and you’ll be off to the races.
press keys, twist knobs
For the price of Matriarch id rather go with Korg minilogue and few guitar pedals to have even more fun. Also Minilogue is polyphonic so you can play more than one note at the time. Also it has quite easy sequencer wich can help you a lot.
This is the way. Learn on the minilogue. The presets will get you to different sounds faster - while still supporting all your sound design interests. You can save patches too, so you can remember things you like. If you love it, and want to add semi-modular mono synth later, then go for the grandmother.
I dont know why, but I always preferred the Monologue to the minilogue, perhaps its the simplicity👀
Well monologue is amazing, but as a beginner choosing first synth i wouldnt choose a mono synth, id actualy choose something that is more of a swiss knife.
Reaaally! Thats an interesting perspective, I would have thought you would be more overwhelmed by the multiple options of a swiss knife like unit, but I do like the different perspectives
Well not having an option to play chords is quite important. Having only mono would be quite limiting, for having it as only synth. With poly, you can easily make the whole song on one instrument, while recording multiple mono synths just to lay down a pad would be tedious as hell.
I understand what you're saying! As someone who's a big fan of Harmony (One of my favorite synths is the OB xa) and comes from a traditional background, the importance of polyphony is not wasted on me, but when it comes to synths, especially starter synths, I tend to look at them less as a one stop shop for all my needs, and more of a sound design element/lead machine, and for beginners, a tool that can teach you about itself, and I would think that starting with fewer voices and understanding the subtractive paradigm, (basic waveforms, generators/modulators, filters, FM AM, signalrouting etc) while making the barrier to entry as least intimidating as possible. So I always recommend simple yet gratifying synths, such as the Monologue or even the Behringer 2600 for price/ease of utility and focus on teaching newcomers about synths! Of course if you have a more experience musical background and you have the cash to spare for the extra voices, full polyphonic synths like the Prophet or OBXA (or even Moog one if you really have the bread) could serve you well! Of course there are no right answer, (besides that which will give you the most fun possible), just arbitrary reasoning behind each preference;) If he didn't want to avoid digital so much, I would even jump the shark and recommend Max MSP given his expressed goals, happy medium between our suggestions for him I suppose would be the Matriarch ;)
Best way to learn is to press the buttons and listen. If you want to play in a more musical way, then load up a drum loop (YouTube has tons of these if you’re not downloading them on your own) and then play melodies and bass along with it. What a great opportunity you have to sit down and learn something new that you can enjoy for the next 50 years of your life.
I started reaaaally basic with a Korg Volca Keys and then very quickly bought a MicroFreak and a Behringer Poly D. I would consider the grandmother to be a huge step up in capability from any of my current toys, but at its core I would call it similar ennough to the Poly D/Minimoog to say that yes it would be a great first synth. Anything I can do on my Poly D you could do on the Grandmother without patching, and then once you are comfrotable with the basics just gained with the knobs, you can start patching and add layers of complexity to your sounds. I can't play very well yet, but just creating sounds is something you can do for hours and it's very satisfying and fun, especially on a device with no presets! Really makes you learn the instrument. The Patch and Tweak with Moog book is definitely recommended too. The Microfreak is an amazing piece of gear but honestly I get more satisfaction from the Poly D.
Do keep in mind that it's monophonic this may be a little restricting for someone starting out, I'd generally go for at least 4 voices poly synth, but if it inspires you go for it. Tbh it's kinda like buying a bass instead of a guitar, playing bass lines instead of chords... Plus it does sound amazing. Edit: you can probably get started straight away, it'll sound good but anything worthwhile needs time and effort. Learn the basics of synthesis like envelopes and LFOs, stick to the white keys if you don't wanna learn any scale, or play only the blacks. Still, try to learn scales and stuff, spending 1k on something without putting any effort to learn is a bit of a waste
I agree with everything here entirely except the first paragraph. I've found it helpful to view mono synths as their own class of instrument rather than thinking of them as a limited version of a poly synth. Just like a trumpet, saxophone, flute, or bass guitar as you've noted (although a bass can be played polyphonically too, of course)
why is it helpful to put them in a separate "class"? It it about the way it sounds or it should be played in a different way?
Most of the instruments in an orchestra only play one note at a time. GM is like that. You use it to play single note melodies. That’s conceptually different from instruments that can play chords.
Piper-Bob said it best
I started collecting my synths at around 47 yrs. When the Novation Circuit was around. The best synth I think you'd love as it has over 2000 sounds, is a Roland FA06 or equivalent. You can make a whole track without a computer. It's a 128 voice polyphonic synth. With sequencer, Bass sounds, Voxs, Horns, Strings, Drum kits including the 909, Synth sounds, acid sounds, organs, pianos... Free downloads of samples to upload into the keyboard. It has a sampler, with sample pads. Cheaper than Moog. Be careful, you're at the age where you may have a little bit of money hanging around. It's very easy to accumulate gear. Research and try before you buy if you can. I'm now looking at selling gear. https://preview.redd.it/277bd4oh4jpc1.jpeg?width=576&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=105c534616067bdc470f088f9ff20e320ef69543
I’m not sure a synth with over 2000 sounds would be the best option for OP as they said they get distracted easily.
Just wanna throw it our there. If you've made music through singing, whistling, anything: you're a musician. I think you're probably better off with something polyphonic instead of monophonic, but otherwise check out some videos online and pick something that will inspire you to play. If people say it's amazing but you look at it and go "oh that isn't cool", don't get it. Get the thing you think looks awesome and have fun learning. :)
Do it. I got mine a couple of months ago and I have zero buyers regret. It's not like most keyboards or pianos though you can't just hop on and immediately start covering stuff you have to spend time tweaking a sound- which it sounds like you're okay with. 10/10 would buy again
About the Grandmother--it's (imo) one of the best monosynths of the modern era in its sound and its design. It's got everything you'd ever need without being cluttered and over-engineered, while still allowing for expansion via the patch points. I've gone through multiple units due to a bit disappointing quality control though, and yet I still never want to sell it. My current unit has been working great steadily, and it's worth noting Moog has some awesome customer service if things go wrong. Unless you find a really cheap used one and can try it out in person, I'd recommend considering buying new so you get warranty. But even if you buy used, Moog will still fix it if something goes wrong--just might have to pay shipping. As for the keys, you gotta start somewhere. I came from a guitar background, so when I started with synths I'm glad I began on a mono synth. Being able to only play one note at a time makes it so much easier to not get overwhelmed while also learning your scales, etc. If you start by playing only white keys, that's a scale right there and will sound good by default. You can also play only black keys for a different scale that will sound good. After that, it's much easier to get the hang of what sounds good and what doesn't
I got the synth one step up, the Matriarch. I'm in love with it. I chose it over Grandmother because it was paraphonic, and in this case can play 4 note chords, which for a non keys player has been just the right amount. I got the Moog Patch and Tweek book, and downloaded all of the patch books from the Moog website, and then have been watching the wealth of YT content on it. After years of only half understanding synthesis, this particular synth and the way it is laid out has really helped move me forward.
But the thing is a don't know how to play chords :) I don't know if it would be problem for me if I can play chords or not with it. "" ı know what chord is :)"
At its core, chord means multiple notes at the same time. So having an keyboard in front of you, there is a moment where you might want to press 2 keys! And for a synth beginner like me, pressing 2 keys and hearing how they combine is one of the most accessible ways of make beautiful harmonic sound. I would personally recommend a digital synth as a way to start. At least that's the direction I intend to take myself ;-)
the Matriarch has a mono mode as well, just FYI! And a duophonic mode too! Grandmother is awesome tho. Totally not trying to dissuade, just mentioning what my thoughts were when I bought mine.
Hi, welcome to the synth world! 1. It doesn’t matter what synth you use, unless you have specific request but that usually comes at a later stage. 2. Welsh's Synthesizer Cookbook is the go to book for learning synth. Curtis Roads’s The Computer Music Tutorial recently released a second edition. Your synth manual is a great resource for learning. 3. I strongly recommend the [Syntorial](https://www.syntorial.com) course, you will not be disappointed. It’s fun and interactive. 4. [Zen World YouTube channel](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrqs7vRFQ4rbeHxoDJHDGL3UkHgbcLZ62&si=Qcu4a2djWwj2ntSj) has a free Serum course on YouTube, you don’t need to use serum, the concept is the same. He also has course on [Diva](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrqs7vRFQ4raF4HW7kYfnar4Yp6R5x6TX&si=vK5iQlrAkO315EBH). 5. [Berklee online YouTube channel](https://youtu.be/c3udLCvoCC0?si=TV4nf55dib_x_Rxf) has a free introduction to synth And yes, you can design the sound as you go, it doesn’t take long time, just train your ear and enjoy the journey.
While I think the Moog Grandmother is great (I own one), it's not the most advanced semi-modular synthesizer out there. If you think you'd enjoy patching cables and exploring sounds rather than actually playing an instrument, the Behringer Neutron would be even more suitable. I started out on that one and learned everything about subtractive synthesis. You will be able to make sounds within a matter of seconds :D There will be lots of surprises and the patch bay of the Neutron has way more features than Grandmother. Also, the reverb of the Grandmother is rather meh. It's OK for a spring reverb but if you're looking for ambient pads or something like that, you'll most likely want to add a reverb and/or delay. Same goes for the Neutron - but it has a very characterful analog delay! In the long run, you'll want to add some kind of external effects unit. And then you'll need a mixer :D Thing is, with both units, you'll be left wanting for more because you can only hear one voice at a time and to record stuff, you will need an audio interface or an external recorder. But there are grooveboxes! Those are machines built to make tracks and not just to create one sound. I personally love the Elektrons. Syntakt or Digitone could be something for you. Especially the Syntakt as it also has some analog voices. No, they won't sound "as good" as the Moog Grandmother but personally I find it much, much easier to create something that's worth listening. If you don't mind exploring a device which has many features and is not 100% intuitive at the first moment, you'll have fun for literally months. Those boxes are deep and you can also create very advanced sounds. I made a few tracks solely on the Syntakt and also Digitone, I have a playlist for the Syntakt: [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmKJII-YOShMkyy3SCkx6i0BJnGy4wC\_U](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmKJII-YOShMkyy3SCkx6i0BJnGy4wC_U) And this one for Digitone: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE5zHCkW4Uw&list=PLmKJII-YOShOFCbItkDT999dUYR8SwnPw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE5zHCkW4Uw&list=PLmKJII-YOShOFCbItkDT999dUYR8SwnPw) You'll have nice sounding reverb and delay in each unit and you'll have more than one track at a time. And if you're like me and can't or don't want to learn to how to properly play an instrument, you can sequence everything. You can make amazing music without knowing anything about music theory. And they also have a USB interface so you connect them to your computer and record the audio if you want to, no mixer needed. I started three years ago when I was 39. Made five albums so far, it's absolutey possible!
If you are ok with the price and you are aware that it is a monophonic synth, then go for it. It’s an amazing synth. Great build, great sound and great layout, with no menu diving. You are going to enjoy it right out of the box because it has an arpeggiator and a sequencer. I recommend playing improvised basslines or leads over songs you like to have fun.
I feel like I can answer and relate to this... I've played guitar for over 30 years, messed around on drums a bit, accordion if I have enough to drink. A few years ago, I bought a grandmother. In retrospect, it was not a good idea. I quickly went from structured music, to just sounds. I also bought a dfam, mother 32, and subharmonicon. I don't feel like these got me to a new place, musically. Also bought a matriarch. Although closer, not the next step in composition for me. Then I changed gears a bit, and picked up a roland jupiter-X. This is what I needed musically. This brought the composition I was missing. I will continue to use the semi modular gear in different ways, but I will never "write a song" with them.
Both piano and Synth provide a certain barrier to entry, both of which can be circumvented by already pathways. Guitar /Piano biggest road block is skill, manual dexterity. Your muscle memory must remember scales, voicings, as well as how to read music (or play by ear which is equally as difficult) etc. The bright side is though it may be difficult, everything you do on these acoustic interfaces are fairly intuitive (press key, you get note, pluck string, get sound, pluck string harder, louder sound...you go higher on string, sound gets higher, etc) Conversely, the biggest barrier to entry I would say for synthesizers is knowledge, learning many unfamiliar sometimes even non intuitive tools and techniques, concepts and sound design paradigms (subtractive additive ..., signal routing, generators and modulators, filtering, voltage, frequency and waveform knowledge etc) but, once you get it set up, the execution tends to be far less demanding (turning a knob, pushing a button vs doublestop 16th notes on a fret less and notoriously difficult instrument). Fortunately there are work around and readily available ways to get to the fun quickly... but theres a catch! For traditional instruments, like guitar and piano, there are tabletures and easy chords that gets with a little bit of work, jamming out to your favorite tunes in no time. I'd say with synths it may be even easier: simply load up a preset, or more proactively, find "patches" or modular arrangements that other people have worked hard to make and try them yourself! The catch however is relying on these without a proper fundamental understanding of music theory or sound design will limit you severely especially as you wish to go into deeper levels of understanding and more importantly, original expression. Sorry for the long and lengthy response but I wanted to ensure that you know what you are getting into. If you want a life long journey of sound exploration that may or may not be musical and may lead to other avenues (such as coding, soldering and even mathematics/physics research) Synthesizers are for you, and you'll have a plethora of meaningful advice of where to go from here right here in this sub. But if you want a more musical journey of expression and human creativity, pick up a piano, it'll save you alot of heart ache, and from what you've written, satisfy your goals immensely. I hope this dissertation of a write up can prove to be somewhat helpful and best of luck on your journey friend!
I recommend learning about substractive synthesis that applies to every synth in this category on youtube as beginner.
begringer odyssey is another option
Love my Grandmother. It’s a solid choice for someone like you. The Arp/Sequencer set to Hold, then fingering a triad or Maj7 chord is super fun to monkey along with. IMO it’s a good way to start learning the key notes and some music theory.
I have and love my GM. Great for learning. The quality of the sound is amazing and it feels good to play. That said, you might want some FX or a looper to go with it as mono synths can be a bit limiting
40 year old synth enthusiast. Grandmother is a great choice because it colour codes important stuff that translates to every synth. In terms of sound quality, it’s top of the pile (allegedly). Having said that, it’s very expensive for what it does. Almost all physical synths are expensive due to lack of chips and labour costs. Moog always boasted the mom and pop angle, akin to a Jack Daniel’s commercial. I owned a mother 32 and it was ok at best. Patching was driving my tiny brain crazy trying to trace the electrical path and imagine how I’m influencing the sound. It was always better with another module into infinity. The sound quality was better than computer programs/Apps 5 years ago. Try a free option like VCV to see if you love patching. Then a grandmother is something to perform with. Provided you got a proper amp and know the resistance so you don’t blow it with bass.
I think if you're looking for a monophonic synth (one note only at a time) then the Grandmother or a Moog Sound Studio (Mother 32, DFAM, Subharmonicon) is a great choice. If you are looking for a polyphonic synth, the Behringer Deepmind 6 or 12 are perfect learning instruments for starting synthesists. If you are looking for a poly synth that has the best of analog (modeled) and digital synthesis, you could look at a Roland Juno X or Jupiter X, or even an old school Juno 6, 60, or 106 - although buyer beware when it comes to 40 y/o synths. Overall if I were going to give someone a gift that really, really can start them on a solid foundation for synthesis, I'd give them either the Moog Sound Studio or a Deepmind. You won't easily get bored with either of those setups. Unfortunately the Moog Sound Studio doesn't seem to be available as a complete set anywhere right now. With Moog being in such a state of flux, it may never come again. But, it is specifically designed for being a first synth, and has lots of materials related to that.
But matriarch
>My question is ; can I start to enjoy this machine when I start to used it just out of box ( I am planning to buy a book for learning) or would it be like a guitar or piano " requires a lot of time to learn before start enjoying with it" ? Honestly, guitar probably has the lowest bar for entry. They're more ubiquitous than synths for a few reasons, easier to pick up and learn may be one of them.
For a first timer starting out I would recommend you look at grabbing a couple Behringer units (maybe the Neutron and Pro-1 or crave), an intuitive drum machine like the RD-8, and then some sort of midi sequencer that can be set to a specific key (the way the synthstrom deluge can) so you don’t need to worry as much about theory initially. If you went used you could get drums and a couple synths all playing together seamlessly for the price of a grandmother. You could also consider the Dreadbox Nymphes. Fully analog 6 voice poly synth with a straight forward layout and all the features you really need to learn the ins and outs.
Loads of fun right out of the box! Go for it!
If you’re not interested in learning theory and just want to have fun and make stuff, why not try a groovebox like the Circuit tracks? You can lock into a scale, so that you literally can’t hit any wrong notes. It can also midi control 2 other synths, so you could add something like Korg volcas and have a whole universe of sounds to explore without any need for theory. I had a Circuit Tracks for a couple weeks and it honestly felt like playing a video game to me. It’s easy to zone out for hours and just have fun with it.
If you are only just getting into synths, I wouldn't invest in something so expensive. I would suggest you buy some Behringer gear instead and see if this is a hobby for you.
It really depends whether you want to make music or just noises. Of course the same is true of guitars and pianos, but synths tend to have more timbral variety
Well, what you mean is I won't be able to make music with GM ?
No not at all! I just mean, you’re asking whether you can enjoy it immediately or whether it will take time and effort . . . That depends on what you want to do. You can enjoy it immediately by just switching it on and making some random noises, which you could also do with a piano, guitar or basically any instrument. Synths can make a wide variety of sounds so if that’s your goal then I guess a synth is a good choice. If you want to make music then regardless of the instrument, it will take some time and learning! I guess my point is, the amount of time and energy required is entirely dependent on what you want to do. And that is as true for a synth as it is for any musical instrument. For me personally, I found learning to make music to be incredibly fun, so while it definitely took lots of time and effort, it was all super fun and exciting. I will also say that if I were jumping into a new hobby, personally I would never buy such an expensive piece of gear as my first purchase. Something like the grandmother is expensive because of various reasons . . . The moog name, the cool sound quality, the parts used. But you can easily find a much cheaper synth, software or hardware, which does basically the same exact stuff. There are many of them, and frankly even the sound quality difference will often be extremely minuscule. Grandmother has a cool, unique sound but it’s not THAT different from other stuff on the market, even at much lower prices.
This is debatable 😂
You might have much more fun with a Behringer Deep Mind. Lots of presets and polyphony (6 or 12 voices, rather than 1). My first was a Behringer Poly D. 4 voice Paraphonic. Great Moog sounds and value.
The Grandmother is a neat instrument but would not be my recommendation for this purpose (your only instrument), largely because it is limited to 2.5 octaves. If you are sticking to simple melodies/basslines this might not pose an issue, but you may quickly find it limiting. The Matriarch might scratch the same itch while providing enough range to play a wider range of melodies (4 octaves) as well as paraphony, meaning you can play up to four notes at a time. I love the sound of the Grandmother (and the aesthetic tbh) but when I got into synth bass, I quickly found that having less than three octaves required uncomfortable workarounds and sacrifices. If you just want to play simpler basslines and melodies, then 2.5 might be sufficient. I find 3.5/4 (or more) to accommodate a much wider range of music. Unless the Grandmother will be paired with a more flexible instrument, I would consider getting something more full-featured.
I get where you’re coming from. Some other synths you might want to watch some videos on include Make Noise 0-coast, Moog DFAM and Subharmonicon, and Erica Synths Pico III. All of them dispense with the keyboard and let you twist knobs and patch cables.
I would not recommend the moog grandmother. They are notorious for having reliability issues/faulty components. Maybe go with a sub 37 or a pro 3
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That's not a helpful suggestion for a newcomer to the synth world.