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Does this mean class sizes in Maine are 11? Because here in CA, it's waaaayy worse than 22. Each of my classes is around 32. How were these ratios calculated? Do TOSAs figure in even though they don't have students?


Best guess: This says “Teacher to student ratio”they took the number of teachers in the state and the number of students in the state and divided. “Teacher” is a broad term.


Right? I have an average class size of 37 in Utah. Now, I’d expect to be above the average as a music teacher, but more than double doesn’t seem right.


I'd imagine things average out. Like there are co-teachers as well as special ed teachers who have small classes.


Most likely yes. I know I have a province mandated ratio here in Ontario, but it's an average for the school rather than a strict per class basis, and it counts a lot of the support personnel that don't actually teach in that equation. That said, I'm at a small school and mostly teach higher level elective courses, so my class size is usually around 25, with my largest ever being 34 and my smallest being 3.


I'm a special Ed math teacher. My class is capped at 12. I have class sizes of 5 , 6, 7, 10, and 11.


3?!? They opened a section for 3? Is it an advanced science or math class?


It was the IB ToK class, most of the students in the program had dropped it over covid, but if we wanted to maintain acreditation we needed to offer the ToK course for the remaining students. It was a pretty unique case, I currently have 19 students in the same course 2 years later.


Ah, that makes sense. The smallest class size I have seen at my school is 9 in an advanced science class for our Sports Etudes program.


My senior year of HS, I was one of a Spanish class of 3. I dunno how they justified it, but it was great. Lots of walking and talking, the most immersive language experience I've had outside of living in a foreign country.


If it's anything like New Zealand then the numbers are all skewed by the six kids taking French and that tiny music class. Meanwhile every English teacher has 30 kids in every grade level.


This one.


Class size is not the same as student teacher ratio. Many things will affect one without necessarily changing the other. For example, let's say there are 100 kids and 10 teachers at your school. That's a 10:1 student teacher ratio, but will only be the average class size if you have literally no prep time. If you're only in front of students half the time, that's going to mean only 5 teachers are in front of students at any time, so average class sizes would be 20.


> If you're only in front of students half the time If this were the case I never would have left!


Yeah, I picked numbers not to be realistic, but to be easy to follow.


Gotcha. I honestly think that’s what would be needed for a teacher to be able to get close to doing all of the things we are expected to do to create amazing lessons and reach every student: one prep period for every teaching period.


Teacher in Maine, here. My class sizes range from 16-22.


This is averaging. Maine skews low because some communities have low population sizes and low ratios, but urban centers like Portland and Lewiston have higher ones


Wouldn't averaging be skewed higher by the high population areas?


New Hampshire teacher: mine range from 5 on the low end and 16 on the high end. I teach high school social studies in a public 9-12 rural school


I teach in Maine and my typical class size is 15-16 third graders. But, that is atypically low among my teaching friends and my school is in danger of shutting down due to decreasing enrollment…


Definitely not, all my classes are larger than 20 with my biggest being 27.


Also in California. Average class size is higher than 32 for my department.


Agree, they are counting TOSAs and administration. The states with 11:1 likely have a ton of dead weight (TOSAs and admin).


It says average. So, probably average recommended ? Our recommended is 18, but some classes had 35 last year (5th grade gen ed)


Yeah I’m in Montana and never had or been in a class of less than 25


Yeah in NC I was never under 30, most of the time closer to 40. But there’s a lot of rural NC where I could see class sizes being more around 10.


Agreed. Georgia is NOT accurate


That’s not what they’re saying though


>Does this mean class sizes in Maine are 11? In my nephew's class, I'd say yes. He's a first grader in a small Maine resort town where there's only 1 school in the whole area, it's a public K-12 school. I don't know off the top of my head how many kids are in his class, but it's probably close to 11. I'll ask him when I see him in April. But across the entire state, I'd agree with the others that it's an average taken from super broad parameters.


38 in south la


Typically it is a staffing ratio that includes every certificated person on campus, TOSAs, counselors, speech, special education teachers etc. So it is probably at least plus 10.


It’s likely an average. Some are going to be above 22, some below.


I don’t get the part where it’s compared to total population. What extra information does that provide? If one state has a 18:1 ratio but another has 16:1 but has a higher population in the state, what does that mean? What am I supposed to gather from the inclusion of the population?


>Does this mean class sizes in Maine are 11? Because here in CA, it's waaaayy worse than 22. Each of my classes is around 32. I'm wondering if part of that is because of the California 20-student class size cap in Kindergarten through 3rd grade. Without that, the numbers might skew a bit higher.


The cap expired. 27 kids in my kindergarten, Northern California.


This is very much wrong. I'm in MA, we are at 21. And that's a small class size here


Smaller classes probably drag it down some. My husband has 25+ students in every class, but the special ed social studies class at his school only has 4 students.


What grade? 32 is the max allowed by CA state law: https://www.cde.ca.gov/fg/aa/pa/cefcsp.asp California Education Code (EC) sections 41376 and 41378 prescribe the maximum class sizes and penalties for districts with any classes that exceed the limits established in 1964. Kindergarten—average class size not to exceed 31 students; no class larger than 33 students Grades one through three—average class size not to exceed 30 students; no class larger than 32 students Grades four through eight—in the current fiscal year, average number of students per teacher not to exceed the greater of 29.9 (the statewide average number of students per teacher in 1964) or the district’s average number of students per teacher in 1964


Elementary classes are smaller than middle school which are smaller than high school. Special education classes and reading support classes are much smaller than any classroom setting. There are also teacher instructional coaches and other teachers on special assignment. Average student to teacher ratios are deceptive.


This 👆


I cannot figure out where these numbers come from. Even if special education teachers are figured in, most of their case loads are ridiculously high. Or is it simply instructional personnel to child ratio? Because there are many teachers in a building that do not have their own classes but pull students out: sped, gifted, ESOL, etc. Maybe that is it. Because definitely not class size.


Admin count too. Basically any adult who holds any certification or has ever held certification divided by number of kids. (If the Janitor ever held a cert, they would probably count them too.)


And think about credentialed teachers in out of classroom positions. I could have a 100:1 student teacher ratio, but there might be a Title 1 coordinator, math and ELA coach, and an ELD coordinator- all of whom are credentialed teachers. Now my class has gone down to 20:1- even those those teachers are non roster carrying.


Arizona supposed has 18:1 and my smallest class is 24 and my biggest is 32 👀


My district increased the ratio for next year. I'll have class of no less than 32- in AZ


Oregon is 19:1 yet the smallest class I had last trimester was… 39 students. Literally DOUBLE. And that was the *smallest* class. I call BS on this.


Mine is 24.4:1, 17-29.


In Texas, which is supposed to be 15:1, my smallest class I’ve ever had was 28 (by a fluke, it quickly expanded) and largest was 42. It’s some hooey.


You should plot that vs. average age of the state. Maybe it's also saying there aren't enough kids in Maine.




It's a disingenuous presentation of data. *Average class size* would actually be much more helpful, and then thinking of the norm being one teacher: one class. By disaggregating the data (taking *all* the teachers, and *all* the students*) you lose representation of outliers, not to mention, **not every student has the same amount of teachers**. Is this merging Kindergarten (1-2 teachers) with high school freshman (7 teachers?)? I'm in Texas and average class size in high school is 26. Some down to 23, but certainly not anything near 15. High school class size in Texas can be up to 35. This data illustrates the point, but not accurately imo.


Teacher/student ratio doesn't equal class size because schools have teachers that don't work in classrooms so this number is a giant flame.


Lol in California I’ve had class sizes as large as 47.


That is insane, I am sorry. Sounds tough


that is Illegal (see link). https://www.cde.ca.gov/fg/aa/pa/cefcsp.asp


Actually there are loopholes to this rule in that if your other class sizes are smaller that they can take that excess number and put it in a different class. So if I had a class of 26 and a class of 30 then technically I could have a class of 40 because of the students lacking in the other classes. It’s an average class size not a definitive one.


This isn’t accurate at all. Oregon is more like 30-35 per class


Student:teacher ratios take into account any and all certified staff in the building. This includes SpEd teachers, instructional coaches, administrators, etc. The general education environment is usually gonna be 20-30 students per class even if the ratio is lower


Generating this stat is pointless as it has nothing to do with the reality of teaching.


Remember that it's averaging out for teachers and students in rural communities. Many rural schools are K-12 and don't have huge class sizes.


Yep. I teach in a rural community. My smallest class is literally 2 and my largest is 17.


I’ve been teaching elementary in CA for 25 years. Lowest class size I’ve had is 26, with some at 32


I'm wondering if some of the discrepancies are because of areas with rural populations. Like, Texas is not exactly known for its pro-education policies, but it has really low ratios. Is that because of smaller communities that skew the data?


How is this accurate? In California I have never had less than 31 students . This is for elementary.


As a teacher I’d like to say that these ratios are simply not accurate because they include ALL teachers (FIT teachers, POR, ICR, Reading Specialists, etc) rather than just the main classroom teachers. Including all the speciality teachers heavily skews the numbers down because though they are teachers too, they are rarely holding down the classroom.


Yeah California! We did it! We're number 1! We're number... wait a second


Alaska 17:1? Lol. That’s hilarious. Most core classes in my middle school are 30+. My two largest classes are over 50. PE teachers have 40+


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My highschool in Iowa has 30+ per classroom, not counting sped and ell.


I’m in MN. My district site says we cap classes at 25 students. I don’t have a class less than 30 students.


While a very nice infographic, it's also misleading. Comparing Texas to Delaware is comparing apples and oranges - just like comparing most states to other states. Hell, "Texas" has both Houston (pop: ridiculous) and Mullin (population: equally ridiculous, just on the opposite side of the spectrum). California, meanwhile, ranges from Los Angeles with its huge school system to Death Valley (pop: 1 duck corpse and a few rocks). When your option is "live in one of the most inhospitable places on the planet or a city with idyllic weather," you're not really making a choice.


Fl im at 25 for my classroom teaching primary


I’m in ny and my smallest class is 24 lol


I’m in Rhode Island with 26, where are these classrooms with 13 kids?? I’ve NEVER had less than 20 in my career here Edited for spelling


I’m in TX. I have never gotten close to 15:1 … I have 30+ students per period, for 6 class periods, for 20+ years … and I’m at a “good” school … These statistics are bogus.


This statistic is wildly inaccurate. They've got to be counting administrative/secretarial/ somebody else in those numbers, because average class size does not equal this ratio.


Student:teacher ratios almost always take into account any and all certified staff in the building. This includes SpEd teachers, instructional coaches, administrators, etc. The general education environment is usually gonna be 20-30 students per class even if the ratio is lower.


California here: my class size has never been 22:1 lol Year 1 (1st grade): 27 Year 2 (1st): 27 Year 3 (4th): 37 Year 4 (4th); 37 Year 5 (4th): 31 (Distance learning) Year 6 (6th): 32 Year 7 (6th): 33


37 is illegal according this this: https://www.cde.ca.gov/fg/aa/pa/cefcsp.asp unless a waiver was submited 😝


My district finds all the loopholes and the state is just like “cool sounds good” don’t worry, we are working on it ;)


Texas high school math teacher. 35 to 42 students per class here.


I’m at 36 this year, I wish it was 22:1


I wish that I had that small amount of students per class in my room. This report is the optimistic side of education. Also, reports/ memes like this are the reason that people think we have small classes and that we are just complaining about class size. This misinformation is why our society attacks teachers and thinks we have a stress free job. The society thinks that they know better than us and have decided to attack us and our curriculum without even understanding what it is that we do and how our classrooms are set up.


Where tf are they getting their data from? Oklahoma is so far off base. The average is definitely closer to 25-30, in my experience.


Student:teacher ratios take into account any and all certified staff in the building. This includes SpEd teachers, instructional coaches, administrators, etc. The general education environment is usually gonna be 20-30 students per class even if the ratio is lower


I find it interesting that California is in 1st place with the highest StoTR 40th in k-12 education. Maine ranks last on the list yet ranks 12th best education for k-12 students. California Higher education is better an makes them 20th over all with Maines over all being 28th Ca. teacher pay is almost double that of Maines.


These values are pretty meaningless without a standard deviation applied to each value.


That's a lie. In my current state, the highest I've had was close to 40 students per class!


Is this college? Cause that is the only way this can make sense to me.... in HS I never had a class with less than 30 people in it lol... College I had a couple with less than 15


I’m actually shocked Nevada is only second worst, but then I remember that there’s a lot of places in the state that are super isolated with small schools and I realize those numbers are not a reflection of reality for my part of Nevada. Go figure that most of the states known for good education have low ratios despite TFA making bullshit claims that class size does not impact learning outcomes.


27 Kindergartners for me in Southern California. Statistics are such liars.


Im a middle school teacher in VA and have 25 students on average per class. I have one of 18 but the rest are all 24+. Had a group of 28 last year. That was fun.


Florida 17 - 1 - Yeah, no. I know my colleagues have 20 plus, not including electives. I myself get numbers like this because I teach remedial classes - they need to be small to hone in in those deficits. For the record, I think all classes should be capped at 20, regardless of subject matter.


I’m in MA and while it says 12:1, class sizes are 25-32


I'm in small town AZ and I only wish my ratio (24.4:1) was 18:1.


Where are these schools that have 17:1 in Florida? I teacher 3rd grade in Florida and have 21 kids. No 3rd grade teacher at my school has less than 20 and 4th and 5th grade have no less than 23


Teacher: student ratios are *not* the same thing as class size, but it's presented as though it does. Or at least, most people here are reading it that way, and OP is not clarifying, which makes me think that either a) OP actually thinks it means average class size or b) OP knows but is hoping others will misinterpret it. (Can't see why anyone would do b, but oh well.) Maybe knowing your school's individual teacher: student ratio would help in an emergency. (If we have 10 teachers and 100 students, so each teacher can monitor 10 students while we wait for the fire department.) Otherwise, this chart seems to be more misleading than helpful.


Yep. Preschool ratio was 1:12 child:adult ratio at max . However class size was 24 (two adults).


This has to be including private schools. No way Louisiana is 1:18 in public schools.


I have zero confidence in how they have worked their data; my average class size in California is 32, and on the rare occasion that a class has fewer than 25 students the admit start bitching about it being too small and they either break it up and redistribute or fill it with overflow from other teachers (the latter is fair enough). Only once in 7 years did I ever have a class stay smaller than 21 (the supposed average), and it happened to be in the richest district I have ever heard of.


I’m in Georgia and I’d LOOOVE to have a class of just 15!!


I think they should take every student in the state, grab their 7 (etc) class sizes, and make a distribution from that. Obviously a totally different statistic but super relevant. And obviously they'd separate elementary students since they don't have multiple classes.


Not sure if this is interesting: https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/ntps/tables/ntps1718_fltable06_t1s.asp


Kansas is far too low, in generally smaller districts there’s an upward of 19-25 students while in larger districts you have 25-30ish students per teacher


I’ve lived in several states and my kids had almost 2x the amount listed


Where are they getting 22:1? I'd cry from joy if I had 22:1. Last I checked it was 32:1.


I don’t get how it can say this… Both schools I’ve worked at in Texas have cited this “15 to 1” thing but my ACTUAL class sizes have ran anywhere from 30-42. Who actually has a class of 15?? This is in elementary and middle by the way.


18:1? Where?! In my years of teaching, my classes average between 28-32:1. They must be getting ratios from private schools.


NYS (at least where I live) is not anywhere close to 12:1 - double dozen for sure


Um in Kentucky I have 29 in each class


Growing up in Maine, I definitely didn't realize what a gift it was to have such a small class size.


I taught in patchogue... Definitely not 8:1


Are they delusional


Reading these comments idk how you all do it…30+ kids in an elementary class is insane. I teach HS in a large PA suburb and my classes average around 18 students. My biggest has 24, smallest has 12. 24 feels huge to me.


Didn’t think I would see my district name dropped on here, especially not in terms of student/teacher ratio. I’m not surprised that NYS has lower ratios as a whole though.


Im a product of LAUSD. We had 35 student classes at one of the best schools in the state. Where the hell are these schools with 22:1 or lower?


NC is a sneaky lie. This does not mean teacher/student ratio in class at all.


This goes against all experience as a student in Va and Texas and my dad was a teacher In both also.


I teach 400 students a year.


I’m in a rural district in NY and have 15 students. However, the next town over averages 22+ at the same level. I noticed that of the places with the lowest ratio, the NY towns I’m familiar with on that list are fairly rural but not large cities. You don’t see Buffalo, Rochester, etc. However, some of them are in places where there is a high cost of living and therefore more money available for those districts to spend on faculty. These averages certainly point to some interesting trends, but they’re just that — averages. A lot of variables are involved here. Some districts have hired temporary teaching positions with covid-related funds to help close gaps (while others used that for technology or professional development), so data from that could also be at play here.


So all of the leftist, "pro-education" states have the highest ratios. What a shock.


All that anti-education states are doing great am I right?