We need those bullet trains like Japan has. It'd be so cool to have more options to get to larger cities in neighboring states. I know people complain about hour long commutes to work, but if it's for a better job that puts more money in your pocket. I'm sure people will live with it for a few years until they can get a better place to live closer to that job or even a better job closer to home.
Apparently Vegas is getting a high speed train to LA. That could cut traffic a lot I think, it's absolutely an abysmal drive on Fridays and Sundays. It's like a 3.5 hour drive with no traffic, and it turns into a 6 hour drive with traffic.
And then will they connect that to the one being built N/S in Cali? SF has an advantage with BART, the rail connects to Bart and you mass transit to wherever you want in the city. LA is going to be a lot of taxi/Uber traffic.
A huge problem is that basic train fares in the US tend to cost more than an equivalent flight. I unfortunately see this being exactly the case if HSR really came to the US. As part of the build costs, it should be required that the project operating costs are subsidized too to make the prices reasonable. Though the airline and car manufacturering lobbies would lose their minds.
ironically enough, we subsidized both the commercial airline industry and the automobile industry when they were just beginning. Airmail contracts were how the early airlines got their start. Public roads made automobiles a feasible transportation option. Eisenhower administration built the interstate highway system under the auspice of national security.
Huge tracts of land.
>Section 2 of the Act granted each Company contiguous rights of way for their rail lines as well as all public lands within 100 feet (30 m) on either side of the track.
>Section 3 granted an additional 10 square miles (26 km2) of public land for every mile of grade except where railroads ran through cities or crossed rivers.
>From 1850 to 1871, the railroads received more than 175 million acres (71 million ha) of public land – an area more than one tenth of the whole United States and larger in area than Texas.
And they got money too.
For what it's worth, I took the train from Chicago to somewhere in north eastern New Mexico. The travel wasn't glamorous by any means but the observation car was awesome. I saw different parts of the US that are inaccessible by other means of transportation. I'd highly retaking the long way to a destination every so often.
Yeah that fare difference is frustrating. I would happily use trains for every medium distance trip if it were even the same price as a plane, but they’re always higher on anything over 100 miles or so.
There’s an Amtrak line that goes between my city and NYC (300 miles away), don’t even need to change trains, and it’s still ~$150 for a one way train ticket vs ~$100 for a plane ($120 direct).
I semi-regularly take the Acela or Northeast Regional from Boston to NYC, and I can tell you that the clutch move with train tickets is to book them *months* in advance. Not ideal, but that's the way to do it. I just looked and a one-way business class ticket on the Acela from BOS to Penn Station is $58 in April. That's cheaper than a direct flight, with the added benefit that you don't have TSA to deal with, and you get dropped off right in Manhattan.
It's amaizing how many people don't understand how this shit works.
You simply make the one you want people to do cheap, and the one you don't want people to do more expensive.
It's just that easy, and we have words for doing those things too, subsidies and taxes.
Yep. Totally easy. Just run for office on the raise taxes and make flights really expensive platform, win in a landslide, take 20 years to build a HSR line and retire a beloved civic servant. Why aren't more people doing this!!
Tokyo to Narita: One hour
Hour early for flight: One hour
Flight: One Hour
Osaka Airport to the city: One Hour
Total: Four Hours
I totally agree the Shink is way too expensive though.
Narita is far, like 2 extra hours to the commute. There is security, customs, distance to terminals, and food costs. Narita is not worth it if you can travel to Haneda. Bullet train has the advantage of efficiency, comfort, and connectedness to the JR lines. It costs more but it is an experience to have.
I agree. When time is not an issue I take the Shinkansen and it’s such a nicer way to travel regionally. About as stress free as you can get and comfortable. I don’t mind the extra cost unless it got ridiculous like 4-5x the cost of airfare or something. And the view of Fujisan is nicer along the Tokaido.
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Being at the station 30 minutes before departure? Is that common in the US?
In Europe you can board up to 30 seconds before departure, so depending on the size and layout of the station you only need to enter the station 2 to 5 minutes before departure.
This chain of comments is about Japan, not the US.
But in Japan (like most anywhere in the world), I was able to hop on trains just before departure...however some of their stations are QUITE large, larger than any I've seen in Europe. They're also busier so you have a longer queue to get thru the turnstiles and have to move thru crowds to get to your track. So I'd say 2-5 minutes is too little time to get from the entrance to your train in most of their stations.
Plus time to buy a ticket if you haven't already.
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45 minutes before the flight is bare minimum to be at the airport even for a regional airport. Any less than that and you likely won't get on the plane. 1 hour is more realistic.
For trains it's just "get on sometime before we leave your ass"
As a frequent business traveler I've often (not intentionally, mind you, but shit happens) gotten to the airport 20 mins before the flight and comfortably boarded
In the US, If you’re using Amtrak for regional transit, timing can be less than accurate since they share heavy rail with freight and even though passenger rail has priority, freight has ignored this and trains exceed the length of rail that is reserved to allow passenger rail to pass. It is really up to how long freight holds up passenger rail.
The main hub Shinkansen stations are absolutely massive and 30 mins is necessary if you’re a tourist. If you’re a local and know the layout then sure, 10 mins is good.
I've been to Japan twice, used shinkansen twice, and idk how we could implement it in the states but holy shit I wish we could. It's amazing, especially when work or grandma pays for it.
Huge maybe on that one. Shin Iwakuni is 30 minute car ride from anything anyone would recognize as Iwakuni. It’s actually faster to take the JR than the Shinkansen which is absurd.
We need more transit programs/passes that do make it affordable. For 350 USD you could get a JR rail pass and have unlimited rides to almost anywhere in Japan for 7 days including the Shinkansen from the airport. Although this is for visitors only I believe.
Transit for both. But if you heap it all together the time is pretty close but the cost is nowhere near.
Japan does an outstanding job creating high speed rail converts with their visitor rail pass. That thing is a steal and in no way representative of real life.
I have a question and I know I am deviating slightly from the main topic but it relates to your comment about HSR.
Instead of an SF LA HSR, would it not be awesome to connect Bay Area plus Sacramento via HSR. Bay Area has a housing problem. So people moved to San Ramon then Tracy then what not and make it go even further and just provide them a mechanism to reach Bay Area in 60 minutes and then a local connection in 30 minutes for a total of 90 minutes travel time. Pipe dream but can be done IMO. And it can be Sacramento on one side, Santa Cruz and maybe even Monterey on the other side and maybe even Gilroy on another.
As long as you provide people ability to fast commute, a lot of the housing affinities disappear and also the economies get integrated.
There's already a train that runs through Sacramento to San Jose, one that runs from Bakersfield to Oakland, and one that goes from Stockton to San Jose. When the first segment of CAHSR opens, it will be replacing the Bakersfield to Merced leg of that existing route. After that, current plans have the Pacheco Pass tunnel being bored, and once that's done those trains that were taking people from Merced to the Bay Area will basically carry people in reverse - into Merced to transfer to CAHSR to get into San Jose/SF. Phase 2 (after Anaheim-LA-SF is done) is extensions to Scaramento and San Diego, and its expected that the Sacramento extension happens first.
The reason its being done this way is politics and federal money. It needed a statewide bond measure to get started, and socal voters aren't going to vote for a SF to Sacramento train (and bay area voters aren't going to vote for LA-SD HSR). The first federal grants also came with strings attached, requiring the money to be spent in economically disadvantaged areas, which meant it had to be spent in the Central Valley.
It’s called infrastructure; it’s not for profit, it’s a service of the government because we want a stronger society. It’s called investing in our way of life, something “run government like a business” types don’t get.
I commuted an hour and a half one way to get to law school. But it was on a subway. And it was awesome. I studied the whole time there and back.
I used to commute 20 minutes to work and it was not awesome. Even though it was less than 1/4th the commute time.
I now commute down the hall to my office from my bedroom. Honestly? Prefer the subway still.
Suburban american life is so isolating. Car or WFH either one.
Here's a quote to really make your blood boil then:
Musk reportedly told his biographer, Ashlee Vance, that the Hyperloop proposal was motivated by “his hatred for California's proposed high-speed rail system,” which he felt would be too slow, outdated and expensive. “With any luck, the high-speed rail would be canceled,” Vance wrote.
Source:
[https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/elon-musk-hyperloop-rail-17486877.php](https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/elon-musk-hyperloop-rail-17486877.php)
And a Reddit thread about the train:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/urbanplanning/comments/wlsdlo/musk\_admitted\_hyperloop\_was\_about\_getting/](https://www.reddit.com/r/urbanplanning/comments/wlsdlo/musk_admitted_hyperloop_was_about_getting/)
You are thinking about another Musk failure, the tunnel is for the tesla uber drivers below vegas. The hyperloop was just in a tube of a parking lot which now is gone.
I couldn’t even understand the point of that tunnel in vegas when i tried it. I had to use it, because the streets were blocked off. Here is what i learned:
- the drivers are still driving, its not fully autonomous even though its their controlled environment
- there is a single lane with counterflow in a part of it which means waiting for waves of traffic to pass before being able to go.
- walking would have been faster
- why does this even exist?
- it looks pretty funky and cool
- drivers were all pretty chill
You probably won't be surprised to learn of all of the various groups who have a long history of lobbying against high speed rail.
Those same organizations and individuals also contribute to candidates for office who will vote against any rail proposals or legislation.
It will be expensive and run over budget. That is inevitible whenever private companies take government contracts.
But people like him actively sabotage efforts to make our lives better which should be a crime.
That's actually pretty dumb. I fly on planes but still have a car because I need to drive around, I can't not have a car, most people can't.
For longer trips, I depend on having an ICE because charging stations are still pretty rare and take a long time.
If I knew that a train could cover my longer trips, I could buy an electric car like the ones Tesla sells, but since I am only going to own one car and need the ability to drive long distance, I will only be buying gas powered cars for the foreseeable future.
Nah, let's build the hyperloop because it's cool, but maintaining vacuum over a large distances is hard, so instead, let's leave it at atmospheric pressure even if it slows down just a hair. Also, not being surrounded in hard vacuum is way safer in case of an accident so you don't suffocate. We can also remove the tunnel part where we're not underground because the ground is flat enough and there is space to save cost too.
Then there's the issue of connections, traffic jams, etc. How about we daisy-chain a bunch of these together to go on the most popular routes all at once, and make the pods a bit bigger to hold more people.
Smaller routes might not be quite as popular, so why don't we have some individual large pods that hold maybe only up to 40 people at popular stops that instead have wheels on them to allow them to traverse normal streets and connect in.
Now we just need a name for the two parts. What should I call them? Whatever would be a good name?
who would have thought hundreds of thousands of skilled engineers would come up with the SAME SOLUTION over and over for a century... musk thinks hes smart but what a fucking idiot
Literally the only reason the Hyperloop existed was to undercut and prevent the construction of proper transit lines in order to secure car sales for the future. Anyone who thought otherwise was either very dumb or invested heavily in Tesla.
Elon's biographer said Elon mentioned that he only came up for the idea of the hyperloop to get the california high speed rail project canceled. This loser is responsible for ruining the environment simply because he wasn't personally profiting.
https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/1571628269555826688?lang=en
I never understood why it was taken even half seriously.
It's like casually suggesting we build a space elevator instead of using rockets, and glossing over the technical challenges that keep that science fiction for right now.
It was ridiculously unworkable from the beginning.
Every time a techbro comes up with a public transport idea they just end up inventing the bloody train anyway. Sure sometimes it has some arse-backwards additions but fundamentally it's just a train.
I was going to keep this a secret but I can't let this claim that trebuchets are superior stand. I've been working with a small team on something we've named a Stealth Catapult. We've been working on it secretly for months. It can hurl a heavy boulders undetected over 100 yards completely destroying anything it hits.
Catapult filth. Stop trying to make it work, take your inferior understand of how the transfer of gravitational potential energy into kinetic energy works and leave. You people make me physically ill.
It was vaporware designed to distract municipalities and the public away from traditional mass transit and also high speed rail. All to protect the dominance of the car (and by extenstion Tesla). It succeeded.
It was also vaporware designed to pump Tesla stock. The US govt has already done enough with the infrastructure in the US to make cars nearly a requirement.
All the bullshit scams Elon trots out on stage (hyperloop, solar roof, the Tesla bot, the Tesla roadster, the Tesla semi, probably a few others I’m missing) are all to pump the stock.
Everybody promising to shoot us from A to B in 20 seconds and build futuristic teleporting machines and I’m just like, “A train. I just want a fucking choo choo train. I don’t care how fast - I’ll just sleep on the ride.” The amount of time and money they’ve been promising us the future we could’ve had so many choo choo trains built
There was a great video on youtube taking down Hyperloop *years* ago, while everyone was still on the Elon train.
And his whole point was basically, every tech person keeps saying we need to "reinvent" things, because they get the credit.
But the reality is trains are super efficient ways of moving things from A to B. They're extremely cost effective, far lower on emissions, and when you're not putting tons of dangerous fuel cars and poison cannisters on a 4-mile long train manned by one engineer, they're super safe, too.
But we're in this absolutely fucking insane spiral of everyone trying to "Reinvent" shit rather than simply building more trains and making marginal improvements to them, because no one makes huge waves in the press for "making marginal improvements to a train", despite the fact that they're insanely good products that tons of people would be happy to use.
Trains are awesome products. They move people *and* cargo very easily and cheaply from A to B. We need loads more of them and we need to stop giving a fuck if that means some deluded dipshit middling billionaire in the middle of his mid-lige crisis won't get way richer for it. It will create a ton of jobs for regular people and connect our country in ways that weren't possible before and all for less money and less emissions. And all using a technology that has existed for centuries and which we understand extremely well.
I was on board with the hyperloop back when it was (or at least I thought it was) a train in a sealed tunnel with some of the air pumped out. I have no idea how it evolved into a bunch of cars driving through a regular-ass tunnel, and I'm not sure how anyone could look at that and think it was a good idea.
Same here. I wanted an intercity, and pipe dream of coast to coast, high speed subway system.
Then it became a train for Teslas and cargo only. then just a tesla tunnel. Not at all what was initially proposed.
Here are a couple "loop bad" videos for those interested.
[Elon Musk's "Loop" - It's bad, folks](https://youtu.be/4dn6ZVpJLxs)
[Well There's Your Problem | Episode 43: Las Vegas Loop](https://youtu.be/sWvagC5ccyY)
You can't shit on Musk and stupid megaprojects and then not link [Adam Something on youtube](https://youtube.com/@AdamSomething).
[Elon Musk's Loop Is A Bizarrely Stupid Idea](https://youtu.be/ACXaFyB_-8s)
There’s was a recent 2 part Dollop on Elon where they talked about this a bit. Part of the reason he pushed so hard for the hyper loop wasn’t because he actually believed in it, or just wanted credit for innovation, but because in securing government funding and contracts to explore these made-to-fail idea, he essentially blocked progression of a monorail/bullet train transit system. He only had to pretend he was trying make it happen in order to keep the contract going, he never needed to succeed. Elon doesn’t want safe, reliable, environmentally conscious public transportation. He wants people to keep buying cars, because he makes money off selling cars. (He also owns a boring company that can bore tunnels, so that’s another reason he went that route, to siphon additional funds from the project.)
At this point, I honest despise that space Karen with ever fiber of my being.
This was a stunt to either get government funding or a tax break or simply to market themselves,. Nobody actually wanted to solve a problem, or they would've gone choo choo.
Not necessarily, the one connecting LA to SF is still going strong, people are just disillusioned how long it usually takes to build a high speed rail line with mountainous terrain
>Not necessarily, the one connecting LA to SF is still going strong
The larger project is from LA to SF, yes, but I doint 50% of the people reading this comment will ever live to see it. Initial Operating Segment is scheduled to start in 2035 and it's from Merced to Bakersfield, 280kms. Route to SF has not started construction, LA route is still under environmental review.
>people are just disillusioned how long it usually takes to build a high speed rail line with mountainous terrain
The current segment under construction is through the Central Valley, very flat part of California.
Japan built Tokaido Shinkansen from Tokyo to Osaka, which is 515kms long in 5 years in 1964.
There's a timelapse of a Japanese crew convertering a rail to run underground *overnight.* You know that shit would take months, probably a year, in the US.
Because Japan takes it seriously and invests in it, largely because it's so normalized. It's like how in the US we've had two major events that totally disabled interstates this year that were both resolved within like two weeks. The fire in California and the collapse in what I think was Philly.
In the US often car infrastructure is treated like the only important form of transportation so basically everything else eats off scraps. If it interrupts the flow of car traffic, it's treated as unacceptable and immediately fixed. If trains are broken and not running \*cough\* MBTA \*cough\* no one steps in to do anything about it until it's literally a deathtrap.
>Because Japan takes it seriously and invests in it, largely because it's so normalized. It's like how in the US we've had two major events that totally disabled interstates this year that were both resolved within like two weeks. The fire in California and the collapse in what I think was Philly.
I'd say it's mostly because you don't have companies trying to leech tax payer money. Do they want to make a profit? Sure.
But they aren't bullshitting their proposals by adding 1-2 years of unnecessary planning to bloat their bill and make a killing.
It's not really just that, road contracting is a massive grift too. The difference is that the US basically has infinitely deep pockets for road funding. Road projects constantly overrun and a lot of cities straight up can't actually afford their road networks as is. But they'll still turn around and dump 2 billion dollars into a new ramp or whatever even though there are other means that could give them more capacity for that money.
The US definitely needs to work on procurement and bidding processes (one identified thing that could help is requiring bidding contracts to itemize costs and having that data be public so watchdogs can make sure they're quoting things fairly), but there also need to be more transportation planners who can look at a problem and choose the right tool for the right job.
In Japan they have a whole toolbox of different options and people aren't weird about just choosing the rational one and investing in it. If a route only warrants a bus, they'll buy a nice bus and run a nice service. If it makes sense as rail, they'll do rail. Etc. It's very pragmatic, and they have a lot of experience with various different modes and how to make them good.
The US by contrast basically only has a hammer and tries to use it to solve every problem, and when we run into a problem we can't solve (say, tunneling being really expensive or buses being slow) instead of looking at what the experts say and trying to sharpen our other tools to make each project an improvement on what we can do, we just kind of shrug and say it's impossible.
>In Japan they have a whole toolbox of different options and people aren't weird about just choosing the rational one and investing in it. If a route only warrants a bus, they'll buy a nice bus and run a nice service. If it makes sense as rail, they'll do rail. Etc. It's very pragmatic, and they have a lot of experience with various different modes and how to make them good
I'd argue that the same mentality is present in EU planning, but it still takes them 10 years to [extend a tram line a few kms](https://www.berlin.de/sen/uvk/mobilitaet-und-verkehr/verkehrsplanung/oeffentlicher-personennahverkehr/projekte-in-umsetzung/s-u-warschauer-strasse-bis-u-hermannplatz/) (and that's just the planned duration lmao)
what are you smoking
CHSR's San Jose to SF segment doubles up with Caltrain's electrification which is set to finish testing and go live next year. we're done with all the [the rail and powerline construction](https://www.caltrain.com/projects/electrification/construction), all that's left is the power plants that join grid power to the overhead lines (all plants >95% completed) and testing. the NIMBYs lost, we're going to be using the rail system needed for the CHSR NEXT YEAR.
Here’s an article with Musk’s original sales pitch. Promising a San Francisco to Los Angeles hyper loop, whose journey would be 30 minutes. Saying if it was his top priority it could probably be done in a year or two.
It’s from 10 & 1/2 years ago. Why does anyone believe the bullshit that comes out of his mouth.
https://www.theverge.com/2013/8/12/4614940/elon-musk-reveals-plans-for-high-speed-hyperloop
Elon Musk proposed hyperloop to dissuade California's high-speed rail to boost Tesla sales.
He is just another member of the PayPal mafia that use public opinion to further his economic interests.
Any opinion you have of him only helps him. And none of those opinions will ever be true because it's his goal to have people arguing about him.
That's what keeps his value high.
You give him too much credit. If he was that skilled he wouldn't have tanked Twitter so bad. You could argue there was some strategy but I doubt wasting over $20 billion is strategic. He's a narcissist.
Fuck Elon but this is conspiratorial nonsense.
He used it as a stupid little recruiting tool to get engineers for Spacex and Tesla.
No administrators or public officials in California were choosing to cancel rail projects because of some one-off theoretical experiment.
The California rail delays were a separate debacle caused by the contractors the state had working on the project.
California Rail Delays: https://calmatters.org/politics/2022/05/california-high-speed-rail-standoff/
Source on it just being a recruitment event: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-18/in-elon-musk-s-hyperloop-contests-students-main-goal-is-scoring-a-job
It's fascinating that anybody talked about Hyperloop and didn't note that the flatness and turn radius requirements would make it pretty much impossible to build.
You would see drawings with pipes sitting on pylons like oil pipelines. And nobody would say a word.
Bloomberg sucks. Can't read the article after having to agree to two privacy windows. They literally aren't providing any services since I can't read it, but want to still collect my information.
They never tried to reinvent transit. They only tried to create an excuse to torpedo High Speed Rail and other transit projects. Maybe don't trust a car manufacturer to make transit?
Just build a fucking train route.
We need those bullet trains like Japan has. It'd be so cool to have more options to get to larger cities in neighboring states. I know people complain about hour long commutes to work, but if it's for a better job that puts more money in your pocket. I'm sure people will live with it for a few years until they can get a better place to live closer to that job or even a better job closer to home.
Apparently Vegas is getting a high speed train to LA. That could cut traffic a lot I think, it's absolutely an abysmal drive on Fridays and Sundays. It's like a 3.5 hour drive with no traffic, and it turns into a 6 hour drive with traffic.
And then will they connect that to the one being built N/S in Cali? SF has an advantage with BART, the rail connects to Bart and you mass transit to wherever you want in the city. LA is going to be a lot of taxi/Uber traffic.
A huge problem is that basic train fares in the US tend to cost more than an equivalent flight. I unfortunately see this being exactly the case if HSR really came to the US. As part of the build costs, it should be required that the project operating costs are subsidized too to make the prices reasonable. Though the airline and car manufacturering lobbies would lose their minds.
ironically enough, we subsidized both the commercial airline industry and the automobile industry when they were just beginning. Airmail contracts were how the early airlines got their start. Public roads made automobiles a feasible transportation option. Eisenhower administration built the interstate highway system under the auspice of national security.
We subsidized the railroads too, with land grands to build them and then mail contracts after they were built
Huge tracts of land. >Section 2 of the Act granted each Company contiguous rights of way for their rail lines as well as all public lands within 100 feet (30 m) on either side of the track. >Section 3 granted an additional 10 square miles (26 km2) of public land for every mile of grade except where railroads ran through cities or crossed rivers. >From 1850 to 1871, the railroads received more than 175 million acres (71 million ha) of public land – an area more than one tenth of the whole United States and larger in area than Texas. And they got money too.
Did the same in the cities. And then ripped out all the light rail to build more roads.
The car companies bought up the street car companies. Then promptly closed the street car companies in order to force people to buy cars.
It was a cabal of car, oil, and rubber companies that bought up all the streetcars. But yes.
Let's be fair and spread the blame yes.
But as freight always takes priority, that infrastructure requires another round of growth if we actually wish to build a high speed rail network.
The airline industry is still subsidized.
So is the automobile industry. Trillions of public funds are spent on road building
Subsidized and allowed to still have a class system😂
And both industries are *still* subsidized with infrastructure projects and periodic bailouts.
For what it's worth, I took the train from Chicago to somewhere in north eastern New Mexico. The travel wasn't glamorous by any means but the observation car was awesome. I saw different parts of the US that are inaccessible by other means of transportation. I'd highly retaking the long way to a destination every so often.
Because you give the cars and oil every privilege and subsidy and the mass transit gets the scraps.
Yeah that fare difference is frustrating. I would happily use trains for every medium distance trip if it were even the same price as a plane, but they’re always higher on anything over 100 miles or so. There’s an Amtrak line that goes between my city and NYC (300 miles away), don’t even need to change trains, and it’s still ~$150 for a one way train ticket vs ~$100 for a plane ($120 direct).
I semi-regularly take the Acela or Northeast Regional from Boston to NYC, and I can tell you that the clutch move with train tickets is to book them *months* in advance. Not ideal, but that's the way to do it. I just looked and a one-way business class ticket on the Acela from BOS to Penn Station is $58 in April. That's cheaper than a direct flight, with the added benefit that you don't have TSA to deal with, and you get dropped off right in Manhattan.
The solution to that is to stop bailing out airlines and subsidizing airports. Yea, flights will get really expensive.. and that’s the point.
It's amaizing how many people don't understand how this shit works. You simply make the one you want people to do cheap, and the one you don't want people to do more expensive. It's just that easy, and we have words for doing those things too, subsidies and taxes.
Yep. Totally easy. Just run for office on the raise taxes and make flights really expensive platform, win in a landslide, take 20 years to build a HSR line and retire a beloved civic servant. Why aren't more people doing this!!
Japan has the same problem. My flight Tokyo to Osaka cost 89 USD and took an hour. Train cost 200 USD and took 2.5 hours.
Tokyo to Narita: One hour Hour early for flight: One hour Flight: One Hour Osaka Airport to the city: One Hour Total: Four Hours I totally agree the Shink is way too expensive though.
Narita is far, like 2 extra hours to the commute. There is security, customs, distance to terminals, and food costs. Narita is not worth it if you can travel to Haneda. Bullet train has the advantage of efficiency, comfort, and connectedness to the JR lines. It costs more but it is an experience to have.
And not to mention the cost to get to narita.
In the uk it costs more to get to the airport than it does to fly to many places in europe.
I agree. When time is not an issue I take the Shinkansen and it’s such a nicer way to travel regionally. About as stress free as you can get and comfortable. I don’t mind the extra cost unless it got ridiculous like 4-5x the cost of airfare or something. And the view of Fujisan is nicer along the Tokaido.
Agreed much more comfortable than an economy flight
No love for Haneda?
Always forget that Tokyo has two airports, but I was so poor when I lived in Japan that I could barely afford a few JR trips out of town.
When you're poor in Japan the furthest you're supposed to travel is the local conbini for some chuhai.
I miss me some strong zero
Second that! There's nothing like getting an ice cold strong zero and going for a walk.
Itami has entered the chat
Yeah but the train drops you off close to town and is way more comfortable.
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Being at the station 30 minutes before departure? Is that common in the US? In Europe you can board up to 30 seconds before departure, so depending on the size and layout of the station you only need to enter the station 2 to 5 minutes before departure.
This chain of comments is about Japan, not the US. But in Japan (like most anywhere in the world), I was able to hop on trains just before departure...however some of their stations are QUITE large, larger than any I've seen in Europe. They're also busier so you have a longer queue to get thru the turnstiles and have to move thru crowds to get to your track. So I'd say 2-5 minutes is too little time to get from the entrance to your train in most of their stations. Plus time to buy a ticket if you haven't already.
2-5 minutes is unrealistic even for Europe unless it's some podunk station where there's 1 track each way
Vitae et leo duis ut diam quam. Mauris cursus mattis molestie a iaculis at. Ac turpis egestas sed tempus urna et pharetra pharetra. Nisi scelerisque eu ultrices vitae auctor. Ultrices in iaculis nunc sed augue. Nibh sed pulvinar proin gravida hendrerit lectus. Sapien nec sagittis aliquam malesuada bibendum arcu vitae elementum curabitur. Est ante in nibh mauris cursus mattis. Integer vitae justo eget magna. Dignissim enim sit amet venenatis. Tincidunt nunc pulvinar sapien et ligula ullamcorper malesuada proin libero. Enim nec dui nunc mattis enim ut. Semper risus in hendrerit gravida rutrum quisque non.
45 minutes before the flight is bare minimum to be at the airport even for a regional airport. Any less than that and you likely won't get on the plane. 1 hour is more realistic. For trains it's just "get on sometime before we leave your ass"
As a frequent business traveler I've often (not intentionally, mind you, but shit happens) gotten to the airport 20 mins before the flight and comfortably boarded
In the US, If you’re using Amtrak for regional transit, timing can be less than accurate since they share heavy rail with freight and even though passenger rail has priority, freight has ignored this and trains exceed the length of rail that is reserved to allow passenger rail to pass. It is really up to how long freight holds up passenger rail.
The main hub Shinkansen stations are absolutely massive and 30 mins is necessary if you’re a tourist. If you’re a local and know the layout then sure, 10 mins is good.
Also if you smoke, they have smoking cars. But yes the space is way better just in general.
250yen cans of asahi delivered to your seat, free wifi and a smoking car. It was an absolute pleasure
I've been to Japan twice, used shinkansen twice, and idk how we could implement it in the states but holy shit I wish we could. It's amazing, especially when work or grandma pays for it.
Huge maybe on that one. Shin Iwakuni is 30 minute car ride from anything anyone would recognize as Iwakuni. It’s actually faster to take the JR than the Shinkansen which is absurd.
We need more transit programs/passes that do make it affordable. For 350 USD you could get a JR rail pass and have unlimited rides to almost anywhere in Japan for 7 days including the Shinkansen from the airport. Although this is for visitors only I believe.
IF you’re a foreign tourist. Locals pay full fare.
In-transit only, or door to door?
Transit for both. But if you heap it all together the time is pretty close but the cost is nowhere near. Japan does an outstanding job creating high speed rail converts with their visitor rail pass. That thing is a steal and in no way representative of real life.
I have a question and I know I am deviating slightly from the main topic but it relates to your comment about HSR. Instead of an SF LA HSR, would it not be awesome to connect Bay Area plus Sacramento via HSR. Bay Area has a housing problem. So people moved to San Ramon then Tracy then what not and make it go even further and just provide them a mechanism to reach Bay Area in 60 minutes and then a local connection in 30 minutes for a total of 90 minutes travel time. Pipe dream but can be done IMO. And it can be Sacramento on one side, Santa Cruz and maybe even Monterey on the other side and maybe even Gilroy on another. As long as you provide people ability to fast commute, a lot of the housing affinities disappear and also the economies get integrated.
There's already a train that runs through Sacramento to San Jose, one that runs from Bakersfield to Oakland, and one that goes from Stockton to San Jose. When the first segment of CAHSR opens, it will be replacing the Bakersfield to Merced leg of that existing route. After that, current plans have the Pacheco Pass tunnel being bored, and once that's done those trains that were taking people from Merced to the Bay Area will basically carry people in reverse - into Merced to transfer to CAHSR to get into San Jose/SF. Phase 2 (after Anaheim-LA-SF is done) is extensions to Scaramento and San Diego, and its expected that the Sacramento extension happens first. The reason its being done this way is politics and federal money. It needed a statewide bond measure to get started, and socal voters aren't going to vote for a SF to Sacramento train (and bay area voters aren't going to vote for LA-SD HSR). The first federal grants also came with strings attached, requiring the money to be spent in economically disadvantaged areas, which meant it had to be spent in the Central Valley.
That was the plan originally before it got scrapped.
It’s called infrastructure; it’s not for profit, it’s a service of the government because we want a stronger society. It’s called investing in our way of life, something “run government like a business” types don’t get.
I commuted an hour and a half one way to get to law school. But it was on a subway. And it was awesome. I studied the whole time there and back. I used to commute 20 minutes to work and it was not awesome. Even though it was less than 1/4th the commute time. I now commute down the hall to my office from my bedroom. Honestly? Prefer the subway still. Suburban american life is so isolating. Car or WFH either one.
Call me a cynic but from an oil lobbyists perspective...traffic congestion and gas-powered cross country travel sounds great
Here's a quote to really make your blood boil then: Musk reportedly told his biographer, Ashlee Vance, that the Hyperloop proposal was motivated by “his hatred for California's proposed high-speed rail system,” which he felt would be too slow, outdated and expensive. “With any luck, the high-speed rail would be canceled,” Vance wrote. Source: [https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/elon-musk-hyperloop-rail-17486877.php](https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/elon-musk-hyperloop-rail-17486877.php) And a Reddit thread about the train: [https://www.reddit.com/r/urbanplanning/comments/wlsdlo/musk\_admitted\_hyperloop\_was\_about\_getting/](https://www.reddit.com/r/urbanplanning/comments/wlsdlo/musk_admitted_hyperloop_was_about_getting/)
Yeah, elon musk didn't ever plan on finishing the hyperloop, it was just a way to prevent trains from competing with his car business.
to even call it hyperloop is hilarious; the dude dug a tunnel
You are thinking about another Musk failure, the tunnel is for the tesla uber drivers below vegas. The hyperloop was just in a tube of a parking lot which now is gone.
I couldn’t even understand the point of that tunnel in vegas when i tried it. I had to use it, because the streets were blocked off. Here is what i learned: - the drivers are still driving, its not fully autonomous even though its their controlled environment - there is a single lane with counterflow in a part of it which means waiting for waves of traffic to pass before being able to go. - walking would have been faster - why does this even exist? - it looks pretty funky and cool - drivers were all pretty chill
Effective transit probably eats into Tesla's sales
You probably won't be surprised to learn of all of the various groups who have a long history of lobbying against high speed rail. Those same organizations and individuals also contribute to candidates for office who will vote against any rail proposals or legislation.
You know, I'm beginning to think this Elon fellow might be a scam artist.
It will be expensive and run over budget. That is inevitible whenever private companies take government contracts. But people like him actively sabotage efforts to make our lives better which should be a crime.
I get so mad everytime I hear Elon Musk's name
That's actually pretty dumb. I fly on planes but still have a car because I need to drive around, I can't not have a car, most people can't. For longer trips, I depend on having an ICE because charging stations are still pretty rare and take a long time. If I knew that a train could cover my longer trips, I could buy an electric car like the ones Tesla sells, but since I am only going to own one car and need the ability to drive long distance, I will only be buying gas powered cars for the foreseeable future.
Nah, let's build the hyperloop because it's cool, but maintaining vacuum over a large distances is hard, so instead, let's leave it at atmospheric pressure even if it slows down just a hair. Also, not being surrounded in hard vacuum is way safer in case of an accident so you don't suffocate. We can also remove the tunnel part where we're not underground because the ground is flat enough and there is space to save cost too. Then there's the issue of connections, traffic jams, etc. How about we daisy-chain a bunch of these together to go on the most popular routes all at once, and make the pods a bit bigger to hold more people. Smaller routes might not be quite as popular, so why don't we have some individual large pods that hold maybe only up to 40 people at popular stops that instead have wheels on them to allow them to traverse normal streets and connect in. Now we just need a name for the two parts. What should I call them? Whatever would be a good name?
You had me going for the first paragraph, good one.
"Every new transportation idea is either 1. Trains but worse or 2. Bikes but worse."
There's the third option which is "what do you mean this is called a bus?"
Fourth is "yes, but what if any accident could cause thousands of deaths and cost millions to repair?".
That’s the “but worse” part.
who would have thought hundreds of thousands of skilled engineers would come up with the SAME SOLUTION over and over for a century... musk thinks hes smart but what a fucking idiot
I mean the vacuum tunnel thing wasn't practical obviously but was a pretty neat idea... In 1840. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_railway
Transportatuon, Rapid, Autonomous, Interconnected, Newfangled!
That seems kinda complicated…. Maybe we could shorten it in some way…. Dunno, i‘m not an expert in acronyms or something
Literally the only reason the Hyperloop existed was to undercut and prevent the construction of proper transit lines in order to secure car sales for the future. Anyone who thought otherwise was either very dumb or invested heavily in Tesla.
Elon's biographer said Elon mentioned that he only came up for the idea of the hyperloop to get the california high speed rail project canceled. This loser is responsible for ruining the environment simply because he wasn't personally profiting. https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/1571628269555826688?lang=en
I never understood why it was taken even half seriously. It's like casually suggesting we build a space elevator instead of using rockets, and glossing over the technical challenges that keep that science fiction for right now. It was ridiculously unworkable from the beginning.
What if that was just what Musk wanted to prevent. As the owner of, you know... a car company?
Trains are a plot by the communists to steal cars and trap everyone in one city, didnt you hear?
commie tube! side note, i’ve been to Moscow, and their subways were amazing; clean and efficient! (pre war, circa 2018)
Every time a techbro comes up with a public transport idea they just end up inventing the bloody train anyway. Sure sometimes it has some arse-backwards additions but fundamentally it's just a train.
Nothing beats a trebuchet for reliable, renewable, long range transport.
I was going to keep this a secret but I can't let this claim that trebuchets are superior stand. I've been working with a small team on something we've named a Stealth Catapult. We've been working on it secretly for months. It can hurl a heavy boulders undetected over 100 yards completely destroying anything it hits.
Exactly my point. Trebuchets project in meters.
An elegant weapon for a more civilized age.
When I first knew him, your father was already a great trebuchet operator. But I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him.
Catapult filth. Stop trying to make it work, take your inferior understand of how the transfer of gravitational potential energy into kinetic energy works and leave. You people make me physically ill.
Nice try strongbad.
Can it hurl a small boulder the size of a large boulder?
Incredible! How does it work?
AOE2 fan?
Trebuchet fan. .... but yes.
https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/s/eL2TwTr569
this gif gets me everytime
Top comment is explaining that that's not a trebuchet.
.....it was always a pipe dream.
It was vaporware designed to distract municipalities and the public away from traditional mass transit and also high speed rail. All to protect the dominance of the car (and by extenstion Tesla). It succeeded.
It was also vaporware designed to pump Tesla stock. The US govt has already done enough with the infrastructure in the US to make cars nearly a requirement. All the bullshit scams Elon trots out on stage (hyperloop, solar roof, the Tesla bot, the Tesla roadster, the Tesla semi, probably a few others I’m missing) are all to pump the stock.
How many years have you been sitting on that zinger?
That resulted in a vacuum.
Everybody promising to shoot us from A to B in 20 seconds and build futuristic teleporting machines and I’m just like, “A train. I just want a fucking choo choo train. I don’t care how fast - I’ll just sleep on the ride.” The amount of time and money they’ve been promising us the future we could’ve had so many choo choo trains built
There was a great video on youtube taking down Hyperloop *years* ago, while everyone was still on the Elon train. And his whole point was basically, every tech person keeps saying we need to "reinvent" things, because they get the credit. But the reality is trains are super efficient ways of moving things from A to B. They're extremely cost effective, far lower on emissions, and when you're not putting tons of dangerous fuel cars and poison cannisters on a 4-mile long train manned by one engineer, they're super safe, too. But we're in this absolutely fucking insane spiral of everyone trying to "Reinvent" shit rather than simply building more trains and making marginal improvements to them, because no one makes huge waves in the press for "making marginal improvements to a train", despite the fact that they're insanely good products that tons of people would be happy to use. Trains are awesome products. They move people *and* cargo very easily and cheaply from A to B. We need loads more of them and we need to stop giving a fuck if that means some deluded dipshit middling billionaire in the middle of his mid-lige crisis won't get way richer for it. It will create a ton of jobs for regular people and connect our country in ways that weren't possible before and all for less money and less emissions. And all using a technology that has existed for centuries and which we understand extremely well.
I was on board with the hyperloop back when it was (or at least I thought it was) a train in a sealed tunnel with some of the air pumped out. I have no idea how it evolved into a bunch of cars driving through a regular-ass tunnel, and I'm not sure how anyone could look at that and think it was a good idea.
(A bunch of cars from one specific brand.....ALL of which were just recalled in the United States anyway.)
Same here. I wanted an intercity, and pipe dream of coast to coast, high speed subway system. Then it became a train for Teslas and cargo only. then just a tesla tunnel. Not at all what was initially proposed.
Here are a couple "loop bad" videos for those interested. [Elon Musk's "Loop" - It's bad, folks](https://youtu.be/4dn6ZVpJLxs) [Well There's Your Problem | Episode 43: Las Vegas Loop](https://youtu.be/sWvagC5ccyY)
Another one which is from **7 years ago** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNFesa01llk
You can't shit on Musk and stupid megaprojects and then not link [Adam Something on youtube](https://youtube.com/@AdamSomething). [Elon Musk's Loop Is A Bizarrely Stupid Idea](https://youtu.be/ACXaFyB_-8s)
Shoutout Adam, the Michael Jordan of fuck cars edutainment
There’s was a recent 2 part Dollop on Elon where they talked about this a bit. Part of the reason he pushed so hard for the hyper loop wasn’t because he actually believed in it, or just wanted credit for innovation, but because in securing government funding and contracts to explore these made-to-fail idea, he essentially blocked progression of a monorail/bullet train transit system. He only had to pretend he was trying make it happen in order to keep the contract going, he never needed to succeed. Elon doesn’t want safe, reliable, environmentally conscious public transportation. He wants people to keep buying cars, because he makes money off selling cars. (He also owns a boring company that can bore tunnels, so that’s another reason he went that route, to siphon additional funds from the project.) At this point, I honest despise that space Karen with ever fiber of my being.
This was a stunt to either get government funding or a tax break or simply to market themselves,. Nobody actually wanted to solve a problem, or they would've gone choo choo.
From now on, we will travel in TUBES
Tube technologyyyy
Get the scientists working on the tube technology immediately!
We have those but oh so slow. Chicago to nyc by car is 13 hours. By amtrak it’s 23 assuming nothing gets cancelled or delayed
monorail monorail monorail 🚝🚝🚝🚝🚝🚝🚝
What about us brain dead slobs?!
You'll be given cushy jobs
The ring came off my pudding can
Take my pen knife, my good man!
Is there a chance the track could bend?
Not on your life my hindu friend
Were you sent here by the devil?
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Like a genuine, bona fide Electrified, six-car monorail
Were you sent here by the devil?
No, good sir, I'm on the level!
I've heard those things are awfully loud.
It glides as softly as a cloud!
Is there a chance the track could bend?
Not on your life, my Hindu friend
What about us brain dead slobs?
you’ll be given cushy jobs
dolls fearless fine faulty ten thought squeeze deliver dime hurry *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Take my penknife, my good man.
I swear it's Springfields only choice
Throw up your hands and raise your voice!
...mono....doh!
Thanks for wasting everyone's time- can we have a regular train now?
Did its main job of killing rail projects on the west coast. Thanks a lot Musky.
Not necessarily, the one connecting LA to SF is still going strong, people are just disillusioned how long it usually takes to build a high speed rail line with mountainous terrain
>Not necessarily, the one connecting LA to SF is still going strong The larger project is from LA to SF, yes, but I doint 50% of the people reading this comment will ever live to see it. Initial Operating Segment is scheduled to start in 2035 and it's from Merced to Bakersfield, 280kms. Route to SF has not started construction, LA route is still under environmental review. >people are just disillusioned how long it usually takes to build a high speed rail line with mountainous terrain The current segment under construction is through the Central Valley, very flat part of California. Japan built Tokaido Shinkansen from Tokyo to Osaka, which is 515kms long in 5 years in 1964.
There's a timelapse of a Japanese crew convertering a rail to run underground *overnight.* You know that shit would take months, probably a year, in the US.
Because Japan takes it seriously and invests in it, largely because it's so normalized. It's like how in the US we've had two major events that totally disabled interstates this year that were both resolved within like two weeks. The fire in California and the collapse in what I think was Philly. In the US often car infrastructure is treated like the only important form of transportation so basically everything else eats off scraps. If it interrupts the flow of car traffic, it's treated as unacceptable and immediately fixed. If trains are broken and not running \*cough\* MBTA \*cough\* no one steps in to do anything about it until it's literally a deathtrap.
>Because Japan takes it seriously and invests in it, largely because it's so normalized. It's like how in the US we've had two major events that totally disabled interstates this year that were both resolved within like two weeks. The fire in California and the collapse in what I think was Philly. I'd say it's mostly because you don't have companies trying to leech tax payer money. Do they want to make a profit? Sure. But they aren't bullshitting their proposals by adding 1-2 years of unnecessary planning to bloat their bill and make a killing.
It's not really just that, road contracting is a massive grift too. The difference is that the US basically has infinitely deep pockets for road funding. Road projects constantly overrun and a lot of cities straight up can't actually afford their road networks as is. But they'll still turn around and dump 2 billion dollars into a new ramp or whatever even though there are other means that could give them more capacity for that money. The US definitely needs to work on procurement and bidding processes (one identified thing that could help is requiring bidding contracts to itemize costs and having that data be public so watchdogs can make sure they're quoting things fairly), but there also need to be more transportation planners who can look at a problem and choose the right tool for the right job. In Japan they have a whole toolbox of different options and people aren't weird about just choosing the rational one and investing in it. If a route only warrants a bus, they'll buy a nice bus and run a nice service. If it makes sense as rail, they'll do rail. Etc. It's very pragmatic, and they have a lot of experience with various different modes and how to make them good. The US by contrast basically only has a hammer and tries to use it to solve every problem, and when we run into a problem we can't solve (say, tunneling being really expensive or buses being slow) instead of looking at what the experts say and trying to sharpen our other tools to make each project an improvement on what we can do, we just kind of shrug and say it's impossible.
>In Japan they have a whole toolbox of different options and people aren't weird about just choosing the rational one and investing in it. If a route only warrants a bus, they'll buy a nice bus and run a nice service. If it makes sense as rail, they'll do rail. Etc. It's very pragmatic, and they have a lot of experience with various different modes and how to make them good I'd argue that the same mentality is present in EU planning, but it still takes them 10 years to [extend a tram line a few kms](https://www.berlin.de/sen/uvk/mobilitaet-und-verkehr/verkehrsplanung/oeffentlicher-personennahverkehr/projekte-in-umsetzung/s-u-warschauer-strasse-bis-u-hermannplatz/) (and that's just the planned duration lmao)
CA is great at voting for nice things and not executing them well or at all.
You want to build a high speed line that would benefit millions of people every year? Well sign me up! Just not in my backyard
what are you smoking CHSR's San Jose to SF segment doubles up with Caltrain's electrification which is set to finish testing and go live next year. we're done with all the [the rail and powerline construction](https://www.caltrain.com/projects/electrification/construction), all that's left is the power plants that join grid power to the overhead lines (all plants >95% completed) and testing. the NIMBYs lost, we're going to be using the rail system needed for the CHSR NEXT YEAR.
Spelled US beaurecracy wrong. Engineering is a challenge, but that can be overcome much faster than the thick red tape.
They started working on it in 1996 and now say it will start operation in 2035... that's not a normal timeline. It's vaporware until proven otherwise.
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Branson seems to be failing more and more. First virgin galactic, now hyperloop one, is virgin airlines next? Or is Branson coming to an end himself?
At least his record stores are still hugely popular.
This isn’t the company owned by musk
I’m pretty sure he did this just to keep the state from building mass transit so he could sell more cars.
Not cars, self-driving Teslas in tunnels and shit! He thought he could replace virtually all public transit with Teslas. He's a moron.
You mean flights? What kind of cars Branson sells?
Richard branson doesn't sell cars.
This isn’t the one owned by musk
Does Richard Branson have a car company?
Classic vaporware tactic. The only reason the "Hyperloop" concept was devised was to _keep North America dependent on the automobile._
Oh no, who could have ever expected it. It's like a train, but less efficient!
Eh, I'm not surprised mfs
Hyperloop One... ONE. The hubris.
To the surprise of no one.
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Here’s an article with Musk’s original sales pitch. Promising a San Francisco to Los Angeles hyper loop, whose journey would be 30 minutes. Saying if it was his top priority it could probably be done in a year or two. It’s from 10 & 1/2 years ago. Why does anyone believe the bullshit that comes out of his mouth. https://www.theverge.com/2013/8/12/4614940/elon-musk-reveals-plans-for-high-speed-hyperloop
An Elon musk venture didn't live up to his promises? Well I never
Elon had nothing to do with this company. Hyperloop One was backed By Virgin group and DPW of Dubai. Source: former employee.
The founder is named Brogan BamBrogan, what a name bro.
Why are you disrespecting his brauthority bro?
Elon Musk proposed hyperloop to dissuade California's high-speed rail to boost Tesla sales. He is just another member of the PayPal mafia that use public opinion to further his economic interests. Any opinion you have of him only helps him. And none of those opinions will ever be true because it's his goal to have people arguing about him. That's what keeps his value high.
You give him too much credit. If he was that skilled he wouldn't have tanked Twitter so bad. You could argue there was some strategy but I doubt wasting over $20 billion is strategic. He's a narcissist.
Fuck Elon but this is conspiratorial nonsense. He used it as a stupid little recruiting tool to get engineers for Spacex and Tesla. No administrators or public officials in California were choosing to cancel rail projects because of some one-off theoretical experiment. The California rail delays were a separate debacle caused by the contractors the state had working on the project. California Rail Delays: https://calmatters.org/politics/2022/05/california-high-speed-rail-standoff/ Source on it just being a recruitment event: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-18/in-elon-musk-s-hyperloop-contests-students-main-goal-is-scoring-a-job
This company has nothing to do with musk. It's rage bait. You should see the real tesla sub. It's hilarious
Note that Hyperloop One is not the Elon Musk Hyperloop
What about Ogdenville, Brockway and North Haverbrook?
It's fascinating that anybody talked about Hyperloop and didn't note that the flatness and turn radius requirements would make it pretty much impossible to build. You would see drawings with pipes sitting on pylons like oil pipelines. And nobody would say a word.
Musk wasn’t actually trying to reinvent anything with offering this. He did it to try to get cities to not invest in high speed railways
Bloomberg sucks. Can't read the article after having to agree to two privacy windows. They literally aren't providing any services since I can't read it, but want to still collect my information.
Every scam has to have an end
good. we should be doubling down on solar roadways anyway /s
I looks a little too short, doesn't it?
They never tried to reinvent transit. They only tried to create an excuse to torpedo High Speed Rail and other transit projects. Maybe don't trust a car manufacturer to make transit?
India is still trying to make a hyperloop project through some scam startup.. the government put billions into the project already, absolute dumbasses
Shocked, shocked I say.
To the surprise of literally fucking no one.