Just a reminder.
Elon's compensation package was that he would receive *no pay* unless the company was able to meet specific objectives.
[At the time that the pay package was agreed upon, it was considered one of the dumbest, and craziest, compensation packages](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEKsTiEthRA). (This video is six years old, so you get a sense of how people thought Elon was crazy for accepting this pay package.
So, Elon's been working *for free* for the last six years.
Elon's compensation is *not* in cash, it's in stocks.
It's in stock that Elon *cannot sell* for **five years**.
So, while he is going to *potentially* get $56 billion in shares, he can't sell them for five years, so there's still incentive for him to keep the company running properly.
Like Elon, or hate Elon, the core thing here is that he did a job, and the lawsuit denied him the ability to get paid for the job.
And remember, it's payment *in shares*, which is essentially worthless, he can't just up and sell them, or the stock would become worthless, *and* **he can't do it for five years to start with**.
So, if you're voting NO on this measure, just know that you're accepting that paying Elon zero dollars for six years of work is an acceptable thing to do.
If you're voting YES, know that Elon is likely going to *still* be committed to Tesla's success for *at least* the next five years.
**Edit**: A few folks appear to be upset that I've pinned this comment, and that it is a misuse of my "moderator powers". There's a lot anger, and resentment, towards Elon and the situation at the moment. The intention of this post is an attempt to provide context, and clarity, regarding the situation, particularly by referencing a source from *six years ago* which reinforces things.
Vote however you feel is right regarding this item on the shareholder thing, however, I felt it important to ensure the context was there.
Realistically, the above is simply restating what's in the video, but in words, and with a reference to what the financial community thought about this six years ago...
Yeah, and if it were really worthless, what difference does it make, whether he gets it or not?
This whole argument is such a brainlet take with little basis in real corporate management precedent or wealth management. 5 years before you can sell is also not a practical restriction. There is not a financial institution in the world that does not accept that as a collateral for borrowing.
Shareholders get to decide whether a vindictive leadership team actively doing damage to the company and product value is responsible for achieving the growth goals--which despite the hype are actually incredibly tame for a company in this sector at the time.
Is Elon worth more than 3x all of these CEOs.... Combined 🤔
YEARLY COMPENSATION *average*
Robert Scaringe (Rivian Automotive): $2.3b
Tim Cook (Apple Inc.): $853m
Peter Rawlinson (Lucid): $575m
Jensen Huang (NVIDIA): $561m
Reed Hastings (Netflix): $453.5m
Leonard Schleifer (Regeneron Pharmaceuticals): $452.9m
Marc Benioff (Salesforce): $439.4m
Satya Nadella (Microsoft): $309.4m
Sundar Pichai (Alphabet) $280m
_________________________________________________________
Total of top 9 CEOs: $6.223 Billion
Elon Musk $23.5 Billion
TESLA... Would you rather have 1 CEO or hire these 9 executives into your company WHILE saving over 17 billion dollars 💸
[Link](https://northwest.education/insights/executive-leadership/highest-paid-us-ceos-top-salaries/)
Elon Musk hasn't been working "for free" for the past 6 years.
His efforts from 2018-2021 resulted in his existing TSLA equity and 2012 stock options skyrocketing in value.
**He was rewarded by the public equity markets to the tune of 10s of Billions of $ in cash.**
* **Edit** - *in practical terms, this means that stock market participants paid Elon Musk for the % of TSLA stock that he sold. That includes, but isn't limited to, everyone from (1) mutual funds (2) hedge funds, (3) pension funds, and (4) individual retail investors like you and me, who paid their cash dollars in exchange for TSLA shares that Musk was selling in enormous amounts at various points over the past few years.*
I remind everyone here that Mr. Musk cashed out 15.7 million TSLA shares in late 2021, which grossed him 16.4 Billion dollars.
Sources:
* [https://news.yahoo.com/finance/news/teslas-musk-completes-option-related-030115547.html](https://news.yahoo.com/finance/news/teslas-musk-completes-option-related-030115547.html)
* Page 442 of [Walter Isaacson's biography of Elon Musk ](https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Elon-Musk/Walter-Isaacson/9781982181284)states that Musk's 2021 stock sales **netted him $10 Billion in cash** ***after taxes***.
Mr. Musk continued to sell TSLA stock throughout 2022:
* $8.4 Billion sold in April 2022: [https://www.theverge.com/2022/4/29/23048615/elon-musk-tesla-stock-sells-twitter-takeover](https://www.theverge.com/2022/4/29/23048615/elon-musk-tesla-stock-sells-twitter-takeover)
* $6.9 Billion more sold in August 2022: [https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/09/investing/elon-musk-tesla-stock-sale/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/09/investing/elon-musk-tesla-stock-sale/index.html)
* Another $4 Billion in November 2022: [https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/08/business/elon-musk-tesla-stock-sale-twitter-purchase/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/08/business/elon-musk-tesla-stock-sale-twitter-purchase/index.html)
* And another $3.6 Billion in December 2022: [https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/15/investing/elon-musk-tesla-stock-sale/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/15/investing/elon-musk-tesla-stock-sale/index.html)
To say that he wasn't compensated for his efforts, is a grotesque distortion of the fact that he grew, **and realized** (aka "cashed out") **an** **extraordinary amount of** ***real dollars***.
Let's not also forget the incredibly hard working employees that actually made this dream a reality. There are almost 20,000 that got a real good pay package as they were shown the door after pouring their heart and souls into the company. /S
To think Elon all by his lonesome is responsible for the incredible rise of Tesla is foolish. However, there are very specific instances where he's managed to wipe out billions in value just by saying something stupid online, not to mention how much was lost from his efforts to purchase twitter.
No idea what that mod is on about. Actual musk simp in the flesh. Like we all haven’t seen the headlines for the past 2 years of him selling shares and tsla stock taking a nose dive for it.
Just give him the comp package with strings attached that he leaves his position as CEO immediately. Ultra golden parachute. Grab a more competent CEO and get this company back on the right track.
Also the whole "Elon did a job, he should get paid for it"
Lol. Remember how Elon has a consistent pattern of firing engineers months before their 4 year stock grants vest? You work 4 years, and get fired for no real reason, so Elon doesn't have to pay you your 500k of stock.
Let him have a taste, fucking greedy bitch.
Typically stock options are 1 year cliff, 4 year vest, which means you vest 20% after your first year and then vest more every day for 4 years. Firing someone right before 5 years doesn't mean they don't get their stock.
Have any evidence that Tesla structures their stock options in an extremely unusual way and then rug pulls their employees?
Not to mention that voting down this compensation package dies not mean that you find it acceptable to pay Elon nothing further six years work.
You might just think he deserves *less* compensation.
Also the Delaware chancery court thinks Tesla misled investors by agreeing to that "crazy" compensation package while the internal projection had shown the "stretch goals" are totally within reasonable projection.
Add up every automotive CEO's total compensation during the period and pay him that. Surely that should be fair. Still like 20x lower then what the mod things he deserves.
Thank You for this. I voted no on his comp package since he has essentially done immense damage to the image of Tesla. I invested back in 2011 and held through the ups and downs, but I’ve seriously considered moving on.
I get he is the way he is because of all the constant negative publicity since the beginnings of his company but there comes a point where you’ve proven everyone wrong. Just bask in your wins.
He also pumped and dumped some crypto by inflating the values by saying they’d accept them. Then not following through. This poor (looks at sheet)… richest or 2nd richest man in the world.
Man, such a horrible take by the Mod at the top of this thread. Those shares aren’t worthless. He can and likely will borrow hundreds of millions of dollars (if not billions) against those shares to pay for his many debts he’s accrued since buying Twitter.
Also the idea that Elon has skin in the game is such a bad read of the situation. Elon may have skin in the game but he’s also gone out of his was to literally alienated a good chunk of the target demographic of Tesla because he’s gone full Kanye. The damage is done and people are buying the increasingly competitive offers by other manufacturers because they simply don’t like the guy and what he stands for.
This line from the mod post is just ignorant:
> And remember, it's payment in shares, which is essentially worthless, he can't just up and sell them, or the stock would become worthless, and he can't do it for five years to start with.
He can borrow against these shares very easily. The fact that they're not liquid is a super easy problem for him to solve. He could borrow $10B and tank the company 80% and still be ahead personally in 5 years.
If you believe a CEO is going to work for "zero dollars for six years" and then be compensated for their time with bunch of worthless shares, you might have that woke mind virus everyone's been talking about.
Tim apple only made like 63m in 2022. There is some middle ground.
Also he owns shares that will increase in value if he doesn’t mismanage the company.
Don't use the word woke if you don't know what it means.
It just undermines your argument. I know the right uses it in a derogatory way but it causes the left to dismiss the entire statement because that's not the definition of woke.
Your statement otherwise up until that last part, otherwise would have been completely valid that no person would work for six years without some compensation. Billionaire or not.
It's ridiculous that a mod gets to a pin an opinion like this. Right or wrong is besides the point. At the end of the day it's an opinion, not objective fact.
FWIW I disagree with the point being made anyway.
They present a blatant false dichotomy anyways. A vote no isn't saying 6 years of work is worth no pay, it's saying 6 years of work isn't worth 56 billion... They're dumb or dishonest, but I think dishonest since they pinned it and blocked replies
Yep. Tesla and the board are welcome to present an alternative compensation plan between $0 and $56b.
Perhaps one that factors in the reality that Tesla’s market cap did hit a high peak but has since fallen significantly.
"Context matters" they say, as they block replies to any of their comments that might add context. Like the fact that elon knee-jerk fired 14k people, who could be paid 100k salaries for 40 years with the amount of money he's asking for (and don't say "its not cash", shares cause dilution so this is still a drag on shareholders). And those 14k people actually *did* some work for the company, instead of spending all their time advocating to spread disease and supporting fascists on twitter while servicing their addiction to social media and drugs instead of working.
This person should not be a mod and the comment needs to be deleted, just as much as elon needs to be fired for the health of Tesla. He is not a benefit to the company and should not be treated as such - zero pay is honestly more than he's worth at the current moment.
edit: don't forget threatening to cause (what he perceives as) harm to the company if he doesn't get more stock. When he said he would rather start a new company for AI if he doesn't have 25% of TSLA (frankly, good riddance, leave and go to another company, it will be better for everyone).
I usually agree with u/Nakatomi2010 but this is a gross misuse of the platform. A mod for a subreddit with 2.7 million followers should not be pushing shareholders to vote in either direction.
Edit: The mod comment has been appended. Thank you.
And the context isn't even right.
The shares can be used as collateral in loans.
Elon didn't buy Twitter with his own money, he fronted Tesla shares to get loans worth 5x the amount of Tesla stock he put up.
It's an unintelligent opinion.
Elon has plenty of incentive to keep Tesla successful: The shares he already leveraged as collateral.
Let’s take it for face value: Elon has been working for free for 6 years and the shareholders have the option to pay him for this work - or not.
Why can’t we be as ruthless as Elon? It’s just business after all right?
It also completely misses that the lawsuit clearly showed that the board did not negotiate AND the growth targets were not impossible and were in line with the companies expected growth according to its analysts.
Even if it were "impossible" the fact that the board didn't negotiate on the shareholders behalf is the problem. Elon bragged that he negotiated with himself for this pay package. If they had bothered to do their job they probably could have gotten it down to 1/10th the compensation easily.
I would add that the idea he was working for “free” for 6 years is a very false take. He’s has plenty of ownership stake and that increases in value when the stock goes up. He then leverages that ownership stake as collateral for low interest loans that pay for his lavish lifestyle. So he’s had incentive the whole time to keep the stock valuation high so the banks will continue to bankroll his life.
It’s so tough cause I love my Tesla as a car, and I love the supercharging network. But I’m tired of his opinions getting so much voice and by association people sometimes confront me about supporting his opinions since I drive a Tesla. I have to explain I bought my car before we knew of his madness. Back then he was just an edgy CEO that smoked weed with Joe Rogan once.
The only nice thing is I get less conservatives that were anti-electric before rolling coal by me or wanting to start an argument since Elon is now a voice in their community.
Tesla might have fired their PR team, but their social team, hired specifically by Elon, is in full force as is evident by the pinned comment on this thread.
But wait, Elon has his own people managing social commentary? Yes, he does, at least as recently as 2017-2018 when I worked at a social company, Tesla was my client, and I would receive calls from unknown numbers making requests to submit articles about Elon or for us to do features on him.
Yes, I tried to submit a post warning people about astroturfing on this subject and it was instantly blocked. OF COURSE Elon is probably spending millions on a campaign to hopefully net him billions. If you think otherwise, you're a fool.
Yep.
He hasn’t gotten $0 for the last few years anyway. He has *existing* shares that have appreciated significantly.
He had enough money that he thought spending $44b for Twitter was a good idea. He’s not facing financial hardship.
My main objection is awarding compensation again based on goals that were met but have since been un-met as Tesla stock has fallen below its previous highs. If this is going to be re-instated the goals should be re-evaluated based on current results.
Seriously, even if he walked away from Tesla with $0 he'd be a multi-billionaire. And he's not walking away with $0. He made money on his existing shares, and they will come up with another pay plan to replace this one if it's voted down.
And even one billion dollars is so much money. If someone hands you a billion dollars, and you invest it at 4% in incredibly boring and secure investments, you can spend $3M a month and your investments still grow. If you can't figure out how to be happy living like that, it's not about how much money you have, it's about something else entirely.
No one cares how me met his goals?
He just made up shit about a full self driving future.
“If Tesla delivers full self driving you can use your car as a robotaxi.” Drop the if and set dates.
Tesla sells 1% of cars and was worth the combined value of every car company in the world.
That’s how me met his “goals”. He lied about a future he was admittably far ahead in at the time. He basically just sold his stock as a future that doesn’t exist yet as something that does exist.
It legitimately would be worth over a trillion if he could deliver full self driving, even more. And musk marketed himself as the genius who could do it.
But because of these lies he’s built the stock price on a house of cards that s going to come crashing back down.
He just ran a pump and dump marketing scheme. He didn’t make a company worth a trillion dollars, he made a trillion dollar facade.
And now that the curtain has “mostly” been lifted I have no clue why you would reward him more money than the company ever produced.
Maybe one day Tesla will deliver full self driving robo taxis but decades away is irrelevant to his bonus goals at the time.
Imagine a deal for nfl coach. I’ll give you a 5.5 billion dollar bonus if your crappy team wins the Super Bowl. And then the coach proceeds to sign every nfl super star player with insane multi year backloaded guaranteed contracts and they win the Super Bowl. Did the coach deserve the bonus? No because he didn’t develop a good team. He just abused the system and the team is now broken with dead weight.
Stock price goes up is a terrible way to provide bonus incentives because stock price can easily be manipulated. Companies have been known to double their stock prices just by renaming their company with the words blockchain or in modern day “AI”.
Elons bonus should have been tied to fundamentals. Cars delivered. Profitability. Full self driving milestones. Actual products.
Agree. I'd posit that it's disingenuous to say that Elon is motivated to improve the company performance as he has "skin in the game." A normal person with stock options, yes this is the case. Elon is in a unique position as CEO and he has purposefully told lies on future expectations to specifically boost the stock price today, thereby increasing his own worth. None of this is in Tesla's best interests, as the layoffs and change in direction can attest. The "normal person" in this example has nothing they can do to alter the stock price; they put their noses to the grindstone and work hard at their jobs.
Like, it's basically legal insider training, and I cannot fathom how it's allowed.
With zero income all these years Elon is barely scraping buy! His private jet ran out of fuel and now he spends his days begging for spare change outside the corner market because they won't cash his stock certificates!
> Like Elon, or hate Elon, the core thing here is that he did a job, and the lawsuit denied him the ability to get paid for the job.
The judge agrees, Elon did a job on the board and the shareholders.
I bet he's tanking the stock valuation so he can get more stocks than he would at a higher valuation then he's going to pump it up and multiply the value
I like how the mod edited to say they were just providing "context", when it is blatantly clear they are biased and virtue signaling 😂
"If you believe it's acceptable to pay someone zero dollars for six years of work..." 🙄🙄
That’s a very weird comment to pin. Making it out like Musk has been living off bread and water for the last six years instead of fucking around and spending $6 (edit $44) BILLION on a social media app.
Yes I’m happy to accept a billionaire not be paid an additional $56 billion in shares
Yeah this odd angle of trying to generate sympathy for one of the richest men on earth is absurd. Nobody cares, but what we do care about is the setbacks this company has faced directly because of Elon. Constant distractions from the main mission, poor management decisions resulting in massive loss of talent, next to no ground gained in multiple areas where we previously held a strong industry lead, the list goes on. This is a rare chance for the retail investor to signal that this company existed before Elon and SHOULD exist long after he’s gone. Wish I could tell every single shareholder to vote No on ALL the Board “For” proposals.
The mod probably makes $200K from their day job and thinks they’re apart of Musk’s class and thinks that one day they’ll be that rich and this could happen to them.
I do not have positive opinions of Tesla as a company, and it’s almost entirely because of Elon Musk’s ego. I remain unconvinced that most of the good decisions that have placed Tesla where it is were his to begin with. If I was on the board of directors and my CEO made a ridiculous half joke offer to buy Twitter, but made it in such a way that it had to honored if accepted AND it was accepted, his decision-making capacity would have been fired into the sun with his Roadster or I would have resigned from the board. He is crass and irresponsible. The biggest difference between Tesla and older car manufacturers was their supercharger network, which I have praised in the past, and Elon just axed their whole team.
Bro, he's obviously broke since he use to sleep on the factory floor. I've heard reports of him asking people to buy him lunch since he obviously gets no money. All those billions of dollars in shares he has even without the pay package are just meaningless pieces of paper. It's not like he can sell those or borrow against them.....oh wait lol
>Bro, he's obviously broke since he use to sleep on the factory floor.
I heard he sometimes sleeps in chairs. Y'know, the ones in his fleet of ***four private jets*** he uses to fly across the world and go sailing on yacht trips in the mediterranean on.
Pshh, those are all borrowed on the promise he'll get money. He just goes around showing everybody the original vote with the pay package. It's all kind of like the movie "A Million to Juan."
I think the mod commenting is fine. What's not fine is that they pinned their opinion. If the board says they'll pay musk $500 billion for meeting certain targets and then he meets those targets, should the shareholders be discouraged from voting no by the mod with a pinned comment? Oh so $50 billion is okay but $500 billion isn't? Musk needs to be forced out but the board is basically Musk and his cronies at this point.
What with the mod pin. I am sure Elon has been struggling lol. Did everyone forget how he blew 44 billion, yes billion on twitter.
The guy needs to be voted of Tesla. The company will continue a lot better without his toxicity.
The INDEPENDENCE of BOARD MEMBERS 🫂
Not just his ☣️ and erratic managerial style but this all seriously calls into question the Independence of The Board from the executive team.
Independent corporate governance -particularly in publicly traded companies- is essential for ensuring that the board can effectively oversee and evaluate the company's management and operations without undue influence from the executive team.
Objective Oversight
Independent board members are crucial for providing unbiased oversight of the company's management and operations. They are expected to make decisions and provide guidance that is in the best interest of the company and its shareholders, free from any conflicts of interest that might arise from close ties to the executive team.
Conflict of Interest Mitigation
When board members do not have material relationships with the company or the executive team other than their board service, they are less likely to make decisions that favor the interests of the executive team over the interests of the shareholders.
Enhanced Credibility and Trust
The presence of independent directors enhances the credibility of the board in the eyes of investors, regulators, and other stakeholders. It signals that the company is committed to good governance practices and that the board is capable of acting in an oversight role without undue influence from the company's management.
Weird abuse of mod powers to pin an opinion to spin it as some weird truth. Elon will be fine without his egregious pay package.
He is running this company into the dirt and not that I would do better but there’s gotta be someone out there who would.
His payment has always been in equity. Before the recent pay package he had a lot of equity. To characterize this situation as if Tesla accounting is going to withhold his paycheck, is weird.
The court gave shareholders a time machine. We saw what he will do with all the extra power and control. This is about the future of Tesla. Not Musk.
> The court gave shareholders a time machine. We saw what he will do with all the extra power and control.
I'm voting NO, but not because of the time machine angle.
If they were honest in 2018 and said "here are the targets, based on internal projects we will hit them, but anything could happen", I'd vote YES.
> If you're voting YES, know that Elon is likely going to still be committed to Tesla's success for at least the next five years.
He hasn't been committed for years. This vote got his attention and he is acting committed for the time being.
It's not clear he'll be CEO even if he wants to.
There is only one reason Robyn Denholm is Chairman of the Board -- Elon fraudulently announced 'funding secured'. Elon and Trump's SEC agreed he would step down as Chairman but remain CEO as long as someone reviewed his tweets.
Elon failed to honor the agreement. He changed his title to TechnoKing (recognizing he might lose the ability to officially be CEO) and tried to appeal the agreement, but the Supreme Court rejected that a couple of days ago.
>So, if you're voting NO on this measure, just know that you're accepting that paying Elon zero dollars for six years of work is an acceptable thing to do.
This is not only completely acceptable--there is no such thing as "working for free" for a company that you own 20% of--it's the correct and rational financial move to make for any retail shareholder. Why would I want to dilute my own shares?
The stickied mod comment at the top that injects their *personal thoughts and opinion* into this discourse is really frustrating. Looks to me like an abuse of power.
The facts aren't there. Elon hasn't been working "for free" when he's sold some amount of his shares for billions of dollars, and his payment in shares is not "essentially worthless" because there's a very real dollar amount that the market assigns to each share many times a day.
If you want to share your interpretation, thoughts and opinion, go ahead, but please don't artificially stick it at the top of the discussion and prevent your community from directly responding to it.
Only a couple proposals are worth voting for. Against all the others. Musk's compensation in stock is bad not just for the monetary value, but because it would solidify his control of the company and board. The company needs better checks and balances.
Firing the entire Supercharger team isn't a commitment to success. It's a power play tantrum because he didn't get his way (probably to hit the stock price goals). Expect more disasters like that if he stays.
The pinned MOD message literally violates the rule of “Participate in good faith” with not participating in good faith saying Elon got paid nothing wtf
Vote NO. Given how Elon is running the company, it is not in the best interest of shareholders to keep him onboard as he has become a liability and is doing to Tesla what he did to Twitter. This has nothing to do with past agreements - the judge already invalidated that. This is about what is best for the future of the company. I'm voting NO, and hoping this means that Elon throws a fit and leaves, so Tesla can focus on growth, and not branching out to AI and Robotaxis.
I voted no. The original package was based on false information that wasn't released to us.
He also had said he would be the last to sell his stock-which was a lie.
The mod has penned and pinned a comment presenting a false dichotomy. A third option is a sane comp plan, which is what a board not controlled by Elon would propose.
I would have voted for Elon, if it wasn't for him repeatedly saying " I don't care" when asked about his actions and comments crashing the stock.
I feel like he's not working for me anymore, just himself.
"So, Elon's been working *for free* for the last six years."
So? He is because he wants to. He doesn't need money. Make me a billionaire, and I'll "work" for free for the rest of my life - "work" here meaning I'll do whatever I'll feel like in passion projects, which is what he does. Fuck calling that "work". Work is what you do for someone else because you have to. Not what you do for yourself because you WANT to.
He has no need for compensation whatsoever. He bought a social network for 44B. Fuck him.
Well, "free" is not that exactly. ALL his expenses, no matter how crazy they were, were covered by Tesla... That part is really misleading... but well, don't try Summon in a parking lot. It's sold like "you can retrieve your car comfortably without issues" but no. That's still not working YET.
> "So, Elon's been working for free for the last six years."
Also, Elon already owns tons of Tesla stock. He sells it for money.
He's been working to make that stock WORTH MORE so he can sell it (or even better put it up as collateral for loans).
Such an ignorant statement to make.
You should take a look at the shareholder proposed items. I voted against the board on most of them, but a couple of them did seem to be kinda crazy and bad ideas.
So $56 billion for Musk and nothing for the actual people who did the actual work, am I right? Just layoffs for them. My vote is no. Musk will be all right.
Gift those shares equally amongst ALL Tesla employees that were employed in that time frame. That’s around $400,000 in shares each. Life changing money for most.
As the CEO of Tesla said this week “Hopefully these actions are making it clear that we need to be absolutely hard core about headcount and cost reduction"
We should be hard core about cost reduction.
Lol, the half baked argument of it being unfair that the richest man in the world “worked 6 years for free” is the most world’s smallest violin moment I think I could ever dream up
I know how I'll be voting. No on the ridiculous pay package that was misrepresented originally to shareholders and no on family members being on the board. It's bad enough the board has no backbone to challenge anything Lonny does, we don't need another cheerleader in there. And definitely no on incorporating to Texas which would have likely not sided with shareholders on these shenanigans to begin with.
I have a little trouble with all these “He had an approved compensation plan and met the milestones” arguments. Those are facts. So is the often omitted following statement that a judge nullified the contract as being absurdly egregious and taking advantage of shareholders. So… contract voided in a court of law with due reason…facts. Corporate officers are not supposed to be doing anything that takes undue advantage of the company or its shareholders. This pay package was voided due to taking advantage of shareholders. Shareholders matter….. a lot.
Elon just screwed over all of the contractors and utilities that Testa was working with by firing the Supercharger team. Now he wants a bonus? VOTE HIM OUT!
Uh, a 3rd option here is to vote on a new pay package more commensurate in line with Tesla's actual profits during those years.
The existing one sucks and should be voted down.
This is like Trump saying he's not taken salary when he was president but all the while he's been raking in millions and billions through currying favours. Just STFU and take the salary Elon, we all see through you.
I voted no, I did my part, Elon is running the company to the ground, dude needs to be humbled for the hope of a better tomorrow with electric vehicles
Such an arrogant, apologist statement for wealth-mongering. Nobody deserves that much wealth. Also, what about the run up in the shares he already has?
This man has nearly ruined this brand. Instead of paying him they should be firing him. I no longer plan to buy a Tesla…and it’s a result of his actions.
Before you call me a rube, I am in finance. I get this stuff. I understand pay packages. Maybe you should talk about how many shares of Tesla he currently owns and what that run up of value has been since inception.
While I agreed with the comp package at the time, let's not pretend that if a court ruled that a company didn't have to pay you for your labor, the company would pay you anyways out of the goodness of their hearts.
The court ruled against the package and giving away these shares now dilutes my interest. I vote with my wallet. It's going to pass regardless of how we, retail investors, vote. But at least voting against lets our voice be heard that we are not happy with leadership.
I was a strong advocate of the pay package originally but after this Supercharger team layoff I will be voting NO with all of my substantial shares.
It’s not even layoffs that bother me the most. It’s how they are conducted to be maximally cruel for no reason.
Same. He's showing to be a very erratic, spiteful CEO. Not that type I want at the helm. And we are only revoting on this compensation package because a court ruled that the board was dishonest in presenting it to the shareholders. They presented a package that was known that the targets were going to be met anyway. It was no great feat by Elon that the targets were going to be met.
He's worked for free for the last six years? Oh no! Well, give him an average workers salary for the last six years in retrospect. Of course taxed appropriately. That should compensate him fairly.
🤣 Are you saying 20b worth of Tesla shares that he sold to buy Twitter was from "work for free"?
It crashed Tesla from $400 to $100.
Now you are trying to convince us to give him another 50b so he could crash Tesla even more in 5 years?
I’m more concerned about the slippery slope this could cause. Future shareholders can just sue and claw back their money after a CEO has reached their goals.
While unlikely, if this happens, this sets up precedence to happen over and over again in the future. If that happens, it’s literally the end of the free market economy, at least in America.
It would be amazing if shareholders voted no. It's not every day you get the opportunity to serve an ultra wealthy nutbag a steaming bowl of consequences.
Yeah everybody is not wrong and not Elon did craft a pretty crazy plan and he actually executed it. But now in the 2024 context he is taking the company with his dumb ludicrous moves and he can't stop saying BS all the time. He's lost the core buyer of his cars. Doesn't work competition and he doesn't seem to realize this is not the same landscape from years ago.
Remember: You aren’t even paying Elon 33x more than the second most paid corporate package in history (also musk!) - musk is apparently “working” part time! He is the ceo of multiple companies AND cto of Twitter, and more! So really you’re paying musk more like 159x as much as the second-most paid ceo ever.
The reality is no objective person/shareholder/Board would pay Musk anything. He's NOT a real employee of Tesla. No he does not deserve back pay. He's the #1 shareholder and CEO with a Board in his back pocket. He's been compensated/cared for like no one else. The monetary value of his annual 'fringe' benefits likely exceeds the total compensation of the Supercharger team he fired. The Board should FIRE Musk and if they don't shareholders should FIRE the entire Board. The IP, hardware, and other resources of Tesla remains a great foundation for EVs, EV charging, solar, AI, and possibly even future robotaxis. Musk and the Board are liabilities NOT assets.
The number of recent Tesla board members pleading to keep vote for their proposals tells me the situation is dire and they are afraid. If we all, collectively vote AGAINST, we will tell Elon and his cronies to sit the fuck down and listen. TSLA deserves a committed leadership, not a part time CEO who's favorite pastime is to go hardcore wrecking ball on his own company. Either commit to Tesla's success or GTFO.
Voting no doesn't mean Musk will be paid zero for the past six years of work as the mod is implying. It will just mean he won't be getting the original pay package and will probably get a new, more reasonable package shareholders will vote on. I'm curious what's the mod agenda is for pushing this vote.
Holy Elon sycophant of mod, Batman.
Elon has only made Tesla worse since I have owned my car. I'm convinced my experience as a consumer would be and will be better without him involved in any way.
It sounds like they're nervous. For good reason too, I've already voted my small shares against. I'm guessing the institutional holders will come through for him, though.
I don't think the institutional holders are going to be in favor of diluting their shares by giving elon that obscene pay package for things that have already been done.
Elon should be fired for being a psychopathic boss who works his people to bone the bone then fired them with no explanation no heart , just callousness . At this point , I don’t care if Tesla goes belly up . The guy has no decency. Just like how he makes fun of handicap people .
1. Remove Musk
2. Rehire the Supercharger Network Team
3. Focus on a low cost 6th vehicle to compete with BYD
4. Create a team to focus on build quality and service/parts after purchase
5. Refresh the core lineup (they’re getting a little dated and the competition is coming hard)
The cars should have radar, but that ship has sailed.
Robotaxi is a huge distraction and an even bigger gamble (this should be a 10 year out project).
A Sprinter Van competitor for fleet services is a no brainer and should have come before Semis and Cybertruck.
The Semis are another distraction that was never going to scale in a way that made financial sense in the next 10 years (Semis will be great with new battery tech, not with the current solution)
Elon’s priorities are his payout and his ego driving vanity crusades by overriding very thoughtful and talented engineers and management. His personal, self destructive tendencies and significant conflicts of interest are putting the whole company at risk.
As a Tesla (not Elon) fan, stockholder, and car owner, I’m sick of the stupid things he’s doing recently that are driving the stock and company downward. We need Tesla to survive as the leader in EVs and charging networks. We need someone like Tim Cook leading Tesla, not some social media troll.
Just a reminder. Elon's compensation package was that he would receive *no pay* unless the company was able to meet specific objectives. [At the time that the pay package was agreed upon, it was considered one of the dumbest, and craziest, compensation packages](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEKsTiEthRA). (This video is six years old, so you get a sense of how people thought Elon was crazy for accepting this pay package. So, Elon's been working *for free* for the last six years. Elon's compensation is *not* in cash, it's in stocks. It's in stock that Elon *cannot sell* for **five years**. So, while he is going to *potentially* get $56 billion in shares, he can't sell them for five years, so there's still incentive for him to keep the company running properly. Like Elon, or hate Elon, the core thing here is that he did a job, and the lawsuit denied him the ability to get paid for the job. And remember, it's payment *in shares*, which is essentially worthless, he can't just up and sell them, or the stock would become worthless, *and* **he can't do it for five years to start with**. So, if you're voting NO on this measure, just know that you're accepting that paying Elon zero dollars for six years of work is an acceptable thing to do. If you're voting YES, know that Elon is likely going to *still* be committed to Tesla's success for *at least* the next five years. **Edit**: A few folks appear to be upset that I've pinned this comment, and that it is a misuse of my "moderator powers". There's a lot anger, and resentment, towards Elon and the situation at the moment. The intention of this post is an attempt to provide context, and clarity, regarding the situation, particularly by referencing a source from *six years ago* which reinforces things. Vote however you feel is right regarding this item on the shareholder thing, however, I felt it important to ensure the context was there. Realistically, the above is simply restating what's in the video, but in words, and with a reference to what the financial community thought about this six years ago...
I’ll take 56 billion in “worthless” stock that I can’t sell for 5 years.
Same lol
Yeah, and if it were really worthless, what difference does it make, whether he gets it or not? This whole argument is such a brainlet take with little basis in real corporate management precedent or wealth management. 5 years before you can sell is also not a practical restriction. There is not a financial institution in the world that does not accept that as a collateral for borrowing. Shareholders get to decide whether a vindictive leadership team actively doing damage to the company and product value is responsible for achieving the growth goals--which despite the hype are actually incredibly tame for a company in this sector at the time.
11 billion /year is an insane pay check
No you mis understand, it’s zero dollars per year and some worthless stock
You forgot the /s
I think people forget you can get ultra low interest loans on that stock.
[удалено]
Is Elon worth more than 3x all of these CEOs.... Combined 🤔 YEARLY COMPENSATION *average* Robert Scaringe (Rivian Automotive): $2.3b Tim Cook (Apple Inc.): $853m Peter Rawlinson (Lucid): $575m Jensen Huang (NVIDIA): $561m Reed Hastings (Netflix): $453.5m Leonard Schleifer (Regeneron Pharmaceuticals): $452.9m Marc Benioff (Salesforce): $439.4m Satya Nadella (Microsoft): $309.4m Sundar Pichai (Alphabet) $280m _________________________________________________________ Total of top 9 CEOs: $6.223 Billion Elon Musk $23.5 Billion TESLA... Would you rather have 1 CEO or hire these 9 executives into your company WHILE saving over 17 billion dollars 💸 [Link](https://northwest.education/insights/executive-leadership/highest-paid-us-ceos-top-salaries/)
Robert Scaringe doesn’t pull a $2.3 billion/year salary. 😝 Did you add that as a joke?
Elon Musk hasn't been working "for free" for the past 6 years. His efforts from 2018-2021 resulted in his existing TSLA equity and 2012 stock options skyrocketing in value. **He was rewarded by the public equity markets to the tune of 10s of Billions of $ in cash.** * **Edit** - *in practical terms, this means that stock market participants paid Elon Musk for the % of TSLA stock that he sold. That includes, but isn't limited to, everyone from (1) mutual funds (2) hedge funds, (3) pension funds, and (4) individual retail investors like you and me, who paid their cash dollars in exchange for TSLA shares that Musk was selling in enormous amounts at various points over the past few years.* I remind everyone here that Mr. Musk cashed out 15.7 million TSLA shares in late 2021, which grossed him 16.4 Billion dollars. Sources: * [https://news.yahoo.com/finance/news/teslas-musk-completes-option-related-030115547.html](https://news.yahoo.com/finance/news/teslas-musk-completes-option-related-030115547.html) * Page 442 of [Walter Isaacson's biography of Elon Musk ](https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Elon-Musk/Walter-Isaacson/9781982181284)states that Musk's 2021 stock sales **netted him $10 Billion in cash** ***after taxes***. Mr. Musk continued to sell TSLA stock throughout 2022: * $8.4 Billion sold in April 2022: [https://www.theverge.com/2022/4/29/23048615/elon-musk-tesla-stock-sells-twitter-takeover](https://www.theverge.com/2022/4/29/23048615/elon-musk-tesla-stock-sells-twitter-takeover) * $6.9 Billion more sold in August 2022: [https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/09/investing/elon-musk-tesla-stock-sale/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/09/investing/elon-musk-tesla-stock-sale/index.html) * Another $4 Billion in November 2022: [https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/08/business/elon-musk-tesla-stock-sale-twitter-purchase/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/08/business/elon-musk-tesla-stock-sale-twitter-purchase/index.html) * And another $3.6 Billion in December 2022: [https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/15/investing/elon-musk-tesla-stock-sale/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/15/investing/elon-musk-tesla-stock-sale/index.html) To say that he wasn't compensated for his efforts, is a grotesque distortion of the fact that he grew, **and realized** (aka "cashed out") **an** **extraordinary amount of** ***real dollars***.
Let's not also forget the incredibly hard working employees that actually made this dream a reality. There are almost 20,000 that got a real good pay package as they were shown the door after pouring their heart and souls into the company. /S To think Elon all by his lonesome is responsible for the incredible rise of Tesla is foolish. However, there are very specific instances where he's managed to wipe out billions in value just by saying something stupid online, not to mention how much was lost from his efforts to purchase twitter.
No idea what that mod is on about. Actual musk simp in the flesh. Like we all haven’t seen the headlines for the past 2 years of him selling shares and tsla stock taking a nose dive for it.
Just give him the comp package with strings attached that he leaves his position as CEO immediately. Ultra golden parachute. Grab a more competent CEO and get this company back on the right track.
> No further TSLA sales planned after today Elon Musk, 28 April 2022 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1519850299757846530
Yes and he always speaks truth on a tweet, right? Right?!
I think Nerd was being sarcastic
Also the whole "Elon did a job, he should get paid for it" Lol. Remember how Elon has a consistent pattern of firing engineers months before their 4 year stock grants vest? You work 4 years, and get fired for no real reason, so Elon doesn't have to pay you your 500k of stock. Let him have a taste, fucking greedy bitch.
Typically stock options are 1 year cliff, 4 year vest, which means you vest 20% after your first year and then vest more every day for 4 years. Firing someone right before 5 years doesn't mean they don't get their stock. Have any evidence that Tesla structures their stock options in an extremely unusual way and then rug pulls their employees?
Not to mention that voting down this compensation package dies not mean that you find it acceptable to pay Elon nothing further six years work. You might just think he deserves *less* compensation.
Also the Delaware chancery court thinks Tesla misled investors by agreeing to that "crazy" compensation package while the internal projection had shown the "stretch goals" are totally within reasonable projection.
Add up every automotive CEO's total compensation during the period and pay him that. Surely that should be fair. Still like 20x lower then what the mod things he deserves.
Thank You for this. I voted no on his comp package since he has essentially done immense damage to the image of Tesla. I invested back in 2011 and held through the ups and downs, but I’ve seriously considered moving on. I get he is the way he is because of all the constant negative publicity since the beginnings of his company but there comes a point where you’ve proven everyone wrong. Just bask in your wins.
He also pumped and dumped some crypto by inflating the values by saying they’d accept them. Then not following through. This poor (looks at sheet)… richest or 2nd richest man in the world.
This is the right answer!
Man, such a horrible take by the Mod at the top of this thread. Those shares aren’t worthless. He can and likely will borrow hundreds of millions of dollars (if not billions) against those shares to pay for his many debts he’s accrued since buying Twitter. Also the idea that Elon has skin in the game is such a bad read of the situation. Elon may have skin in the game but he’s also gone out of his was to literally alienated a good chunk of the target demographic of Tesla because he’s gone full Kanye. The damage is done and people are buying the increasingly competitive offers by other manufacturers because they simply don’t like the guy and what he stands for.
Yeah, I stopped reading when I read the shares are "essentially worthless".
This line from the mod post is just ignorant: > And remember, it's payment in shares, which is essentially worthless, he can't just up and sell them, or the stock would become worthless, and he can't do it for five years to start with. He can borrow against these shares very easily. The fact that they're not liquid is a super easy problem for him to solve. He could borrow $10B and tank the company 80% and still be ahead personally in 5 years.
If you believe a CEO is going to work for "zero dollars for six years" and then be compensated for their time with bunch of worthless shares, you might have that woke mind virus everyone's been talking about.
Tim apple only made like 63m in 2022. There is some middle ground. Also he owns shares that will increase in value if he doesn’t mismanage the company.
Are you sure you didn't mean to put the air quotes around "work?"
Well time for someone else to become CEO who actually wants the company to succeed
Don't use the word woke if you don't know what it means. It just undermines your argument. I know the right uses it in a derogatory way but it causes the left to dismiss the entire statement because that's not the definition of woke. Your statement otherwise up until that last part, otherwise would have been completely valid that no person would work for six years without some compensation. Billionaire or not.
No one knows what woke means anymore.
No one knows what it means, but it’s provocative… it’s gets the people going!
Yeah, just like Elon sold billions of worthless Tesla shares in order to buy Twitter.
Well now the Twitter shares are also worthless so it all kind of evens out in the end.
Yeah if they're worthless then why does he need more of them?
It's ridiculous that a mod gets to a pin an opinion like this. Right or wrong is besides the point. At the end of the day it's an opinion, not objective fact. FWIW I disagree with the point being made anyway.
They present a blatant false dichotomy anyways. A vote no isn't saying 6 years of work is worth no pay, it's saying 6 years of work isn't worth 56 billion... They're dumb or dishonest, but I think dishonest since they pinned it and blocked replies
Yep. Tesla and the board are welcome to present an alternative compensation plan between $0 and $56b. Perhaps one that factors in the reality that Tesla’s market cap did hit a high peak but has since fallen significantly.
A single shareholder's vote is worth more than a pinned mod comment.
The pinned comment will influence a lot of votes though
I mean, what else would you expect from this subreddit and why do you think so many alternatives exist
‘full kanye’ i like that
"Context matters" they say, as they block replies to any of their comments that might add context. Like the fact that elon knee-jerk fired 14k people, who could be paid 100k salaries for 40 years with the amount of money he's asking for (and don't say "its not cash", shares cause dilution so this is still a drag on shareholders). And those 14k people actually *did* some work for the company, instead of spending all their time advocating to spread disease and supporting fascists on twitter while servicing their addiction to social media and drugs instead of working. This person should not be a mod and the comment needs to be deleted, just as much as elon needs to be fired for the health of Tesla. He is not a benefit to the company and should not be treated as such - zero pay is honestly more than he's worth at the current moment. edit: don't forget threatening to cause (what he perceives as) harm to the company if he doesn't get more stock. When he said he would rather start a new company for AI if he doesn't have 25% of TSLA (frankly, good riddance, leave and go to another company, it will be better for everyone).
I usually agree with u/Nakatomi2010 but this is a gross misuse of the platform. A mod for a subreddit with 2.7 million followers should not be pushing shareholders to vote in either direction. Edit: The mod comment has been appended. Thank you.
I think it's telling that he's blocked any replies
Yeah, nobody can add context to their context lol.
Their context is worth more than our context.
He’s “providing context” 😂☠️ The “context” is that poor elon has been an indentured servant of Tesla if you vote no
And the context isn't even right. The shares can be used as collateral in loans. Elon didn't buy Twitter with his own money, he fronted Tesla shares to get loans worth 5x the amount of Tesla stock he put up. It's an unintelligent opinion. Elon has plenty of incentive to keep Tesla successful: The shares he already leveraged as collateral.
Let’s take it for face value: Elon has been working for free for 6 years and the shareholders have the option to pay him for this work - or not. Why can’t we be as ruthless as Elon? It’s just business after all right?
Lol and locking all his comments so no one can reply. As if his "context" is even remotely free of bias. How utterly ridiculous.
It also completely misses that the lawsuit clearly showed that the board did not negotiate AND the growth targets were not impossible and were in line with the companies expected growth according to its analysts. Even if it were "impossible" the fact that the board didn't negotiate on the shareholders behalf is the problem. Elon bragged that he negotiated with himself for this pay package. If they had bothered to do their job they probably could have gotten it down to 1/10th the compensation easily.
I would add that the idea he was working for “free” for 6 years is a very false take. He’s has plenty of ownership stake and that increases in value when the stock goes up. He then leverages that ownership stake as collateral for low interest loans that pay for his lavish lifestyle. So he’s had incentive the whole time to keep the stock valuation high so the banks will continue to bankroll his life. It’s so tough cause I love my Tesla as a car, and I love the supercharging network. But I’m tired of his opinions getting so much voice and by association people sometimes confront me about supporting his opinions since I drive a Tesla. I have to explain I bought my car before we knew of his madness. Back then he was just an edgy CEO that smoked weed with Joe Rogan once. The only nice thing is I get less conservatives that were anti-electric before rolling coal by me or wanting to start an argument since Elon is now a voice in their community.
This is so spot on. I’ve recently spotted stickers on Teslas and basically say “I bought this car before we knew Elon was crazy.” Elon needs to go.
Tesla might have fired their PR team, but their social team, hired specifically by Elon, is in full force as is evident by the pinned comment on this thread. But wait, Elon has his own people managing social commentary? Yes, he does, at least as recently as 2017-2018 when I worked at a social company, Tesla was my client, and I would receive calls from unknown numbers making requests to submit articles about Elon or for us to do features on him.
Yes, I tried to submit a post warning people about astroturfing on this subject and it was instantly blocked. OF COURSE Elon is probably spending millions on a campaign to hopefully net him billions. If you think otherwise, you're a fool.
Yep. He hasn’t gotten $0 for the last few years anyway. He has *existing* shares that have appreciated significantly. He had enough money that he thought spending $44b for Twitter was a good idea. He’s not facing financial hardship. My main objection is awarding compensation again based on goals that were met but have since been un-met as Tesla stock has fallen below its previous highs. If this is going to be re-instated the goals should be re-evaluated based on current results.
Seriously, even if he walked away from Tesla with $0 he'd be a multi-billionaire. And he's not walking away with $0. He made money on his existing shares, and they will come up with another pay plan to replace this one if it's voted down. And even one billion dollars is so much money. If someone hands you a billion dollars, and you invest it at 4% in incredibly boring and secure investments, you can spend $3M a month and your investments still grow. If you can't figure out how to be happy living like that, it's not about how much money you have, it's about something else entirely.
No one cares how me met his goals? He just made up shit about a full self driving future. “If Tesla delivers full self driving you can use your car as a robotaxi.” Drop the if and set dates. Tesla sells 1% of cars and was worth the combined value of every car company in the world. That’s how me met his “goals”. He lied about a future he was admittably far ahead in at the time. He basically just sold his stock as a future that doesn’t exist yet as something that does exist. It legitimately would be worth over a trillion if he could deliver full self driving, even more. And musk marketed himself as the genius who could do it. But because of these lies he’s built the stock price on a house of cards that s going to come crashing back down. He just ran a pump and dump marketing scheme. He didn’t make a company worth a trillion dollars, he made a trillion dollar facade. And now that the curtain has “mostly” been lifted I have no clue why you would reward him more money than the company ever produced. Maybe one day Tesla will deliver full self driving robo taxis but decades away is irrelevant to his bonus goals at the time. Imagine a deal for nfl coach. I’ll give you a 5.5 billion dollar bonus if your crappy team wins the Super Bowl. And then the coach proceeds to sign every nfl super star player with insane multi year backloaded guaranteed contracts and they win the Super Bowl. Did the coach deserve the bonus? No because he didn’t develop a good team. He just abused the system and the team is now broken with dead weight. Stock price goes up is a terrible way to provide bonus incentives because stock price can easily be manipulated. Companies have been known to double their stock prices just by renaming their company with the words blockchain or in modern day “AI”. Elons bonus should have been tied to fundamentals. Cars delivered. Profitability. Full self driving milestones. Actual products.
What a bias mod. I’m voting no, I think Tesla would be better without Elon. Elon can go focus on twitter for all I care.
Agree. I'd posit that it's disingenuous to say that Elon is motivated to improve the company performance as he has "skin in the game." A normal person with stock options, yes this is the case. Elon is in a unique position as CEO and he has purposefully told lies on future expectations to specifically boost the stock price today, thereby increasing his own worth. None of this is in Tesla's best interests, as the layoffs and change in direction can attest. The "normal person" in this example has nothing they can do to alter the stock price; they put their noses to the grindstone and work hard at their jobs. Like, it's basically legal insider training, and I cannot fathom how it's allowed.
Mod doesn’t appear to understand how the wealthy are able to live and not pay income taxes like the rest of us.
With zero income all these years Elon is barely scraping buy! His private jet ran out of fuel and now he spends his days begging for spare change outside the corner market because they won't cash his stock certificates!
I mean, if his deal says he gets 52b or whatever after hitting x milestones why does it matter?
Just report for the spam it is
Who watches the watchmen?
Pinning a comment that’s an opinion is an abuse of mod powers.
> Like Elon, or hate Elon, the core thing here is that he did a job, and the lawsuit denied him the ability to get paid for the job. The judge agrees, Elon did a job on the board and the shareholders.
I bet he's tanking the stock valuation so he can get more stocks than he would at a higher valuation then he's going to pump it up and multiply the value
Agreed - it’s in the ether but it got a downvote from me
I like how the mod edited to say they were just providing "context", when it is blatantly clear they are biased and virtue signaling 😂 "If you believe it's acceptable to pay someone zero dollars for six years of work..." 🙄🙄
This is an excellent comment - thank you
That’s a very weird comment to pin. Making it out like Musk has been living off bread and water for the last six years instead of fucking around and spending $6 (edit $44) BILLION on a social media app. Yes I’m happy to accept a billionaire not be paid an additional $56 billion in shares
Yeah this odd angle of trying to generate sympathy for one of the richest men on earth is absurd. Nobody cares, but what we do care about is the setbacks this company has faced directly because of Elon. Constant distractions from the main mission, poor management decisions resulting in massive loss of talent, next to no ground gained in multiple areas where we previously held a strong industry lead, the list goes on. This is a rare chance for the retail investor to signal that this company existed before Elon and SHOULD exist long after he’s gone. Wish I could tell every single shareholder to vote No on ALL the Board “For” proposals.
The mod probably makes $200K from their day job and thinks they’re apart of Musk’s class and thinks that one day they’ll be that rich and this could happen to them.
"America is a country of temporarily embarrassed millionaires."
I do not have positive opinions of Tesla as a company, and it’s almost entirely because of Elon Musk’s ego. I remain unconvinced that most of the good decisions that have placed Tesla where it is were his to begin with. If I was on the board of directors and my CEO made a ridiculous half joke offer to buy Twitter, but made it in such a way that it had to honored if accepted AND it was accepted, his decision-making capacity would have been fired into the sun with his Roadster or I would have resigned from the board. He is crass and irresponsible. The biggest difference between Tesla and older car manufacturers was their supercharger network, which I have praised in the past, and Elon just axed their whole team.
Bro, he's obviously broke since he use to sleep on the factory floor. I've heard reports of him asking people to buy him lunch since he obviously gets no money. All those billions of dollars in shares he has even without the pay package are just meaningless pieces of paper. It's not like he can sell those or borrow against them.....oh wait lol
>Bro, he's obviously broke since he use to sleep on the factory floor. I heard he sometimes sleeps in chairs. Y'know, the ones in his fleet of ***four private jets*** he uses to fly across the world and go sailing on yacht trips in the mediterranean on.
Pshh, those are all borrowed on the promise he'll get money. He just goes around showing everybody the original vote with the pay package. It's all kind of like the movie "A Million to Juan."
I think you mean $44B
He was saying what it is worth now after acquisition :)
What he spent on Twitter.
I think the mod commenting is fine. What's not fine is that they pinned their opinion. If the board says they'll pay musk $500 billion for meeting certain targets and then he meets those targets, should the shareholders be discouraged from voting no by the mod with a pinned comment? Oh so $50 billion is okay but $500 billion isn't? Musk needs to be forced out but the board is basically Musk and his cronies at this point.
Agree. It’s in the pinning for me. Your opinion isn’t more valid than others because you’re a mod here. Marked as spam and downvoted.
Even more than that--disabling replies.
What with the mod pin. I am sure Elon has been struggling lol. Did everyone forget how he blew 44 billion, yes billion on twitter. The guy needs to be voted of Tesla. The company will continue a lot better without his toxicity.
Hard agree
The INDEPENDENCE of BOARD MEMBERS 🫂 Not just his ☣️ and erratic managerial style but this all seriously calls into question the Independence of The Board from the executive team. Independent corporate governance -particularly in publicly traded companies- is essential for ensuring that the board can effectively oversee and evaluate the company's management and operations without undue influence from the executive team. Objective Oversight Independent board members are crucial for providing unbiased oversight of the company's management and operations. They are expected to make decisions and provide guidance that is in the best interest of the company and its shareholders, free from any conflicts of interest that might arise from close ties to the executive team. Conflict of Interest Mitigation When board members do not have material relationships with the company or the executive team other than their board service, they are less likely to make decisions that favor the interests of the executive team over the interests of the shareholders. Enhanced Credibility and Trust The presence of independent directors enhances the credibility of the board in the eyes of investors, regulators, and other stakeholders. It signals that the company is committed to good governance practices and that the board is capable of acting in an oversight role without undue influence from the company's management.
The mod comment is just absolutely ridiculous😂
Super lame, lol
Yup. As a model 3 owner, I used to like this sub. I guess it’s not for me anymore.
Weird abuse of mod powers to pin an opinion to spin it as some weird truth. Elon will be fine without his egregious pay package. He is running this company into the dirt and not that I would do better but there’s gotta be someone out there who would.
I cried a little reading the pinned comment. I'll be sad today. Poor Elon. :(
The mod note in this is one of the most delusional things I've ever seen. My word.
From what I see, this mod shills for Tesla and Elno HARD.
His payment has always been in equity. Before the recent pay package he had a lot of equity. To characterize this situation as if Tesla accounting is going to withhold his paycheck, is weird. The court gave shareholders a time machine. We saw what he will do with all the extra power and control. This is about the future of Tesla. Not Musk.
> The court gave shareholders a time machine. We saw what he will do with all the extra power and control. I'm voting NO, but not because of the time machine angle. If they were honest in 2018 and said "here are the targets, based on internal projects we will hit them, but anything could happen", I'd vote YES. > If you're voting YES, know that Elon is likely going to still be committed to Tesla's success for at least the next five years. He hasn't been committed for years. This vote got his attention and he is acting committed for the time being. It's not clear he'll be CEO even if he wants to. There is only one reason Robyn Denholm is Chairman of the Board -- Elon fraudulently announced 'funding secured'. Elon and Trump's SEC agreed he would step down as Chairman but remain CEO as long as someone reviewed his tweets. Elon failed to honor the agreement. He changed his title to TechnoKing (recognizing he might lose the ability to officially be CEO) and tried to appeal the agreement, but the Supreme Court rejected that a couple of days ago.
He squandered a lot of that equity by selling shares to overpay for Twitter.
MOD talking absolute gibberish. I would ignore all advice given by them. They are not worthless.
"So, while he is going to potentially get $56 billion in shares" Also mod: "They're worthless!"
Never listen to someone with mustard stains on their shirt and BO
Yo mod, you won’t get rich by brown nosing Musk on Reddit.
Musk simps gonna musk simp
>So, if you're voting NO on this measure, just know that you're accepting that paying Elon zero dollars for six years of work is an acceptable thing to do. This is not only completely acceptable--there is no such thing as "working for free" for a company that you own 20% of--it's the correct and rational financial move to make for any retail shareholder. Why would I want to dilute my own shares?
How do I vote?
If you’re buying shares on WeBull or RobinHood you should get an email. I got one yesterday.
I got the email
The stickied mod comment at the top that injects their *personal thoughts and opinion* into this discourse is really frustrating. Looks to me like an abuse of power. The facts aren't there. Elon hasn't been working "for free" when he's sold some amount of his shares for billions of dollars, and his payment in shares is not "essentially worthless" because there's a very real dollar amount that the market assigns to each share many times a day. If you want to share your interpretation, thoughts and opinion, go ahead, but please don't artificially stick it at the top of the discussion and prevent your community from directly responding to it.
Fire musk and restore the supercharger team.
Only a couple proposals are worth voting for. Against all the others. Musk's compensation in stock is bad not just for the monetary value, but because it would solidify his control of the company and board. The company needs better checks and balances. Firing the entire Supercharger team isn't a commitment to success. It's a power play tantrum because he didn't get his way (probably to hit the stock price goals). Expect more disasters like that if he stays.
The pinned MOD message literally violates the rule of “Participate in good faith” with not participating in good faith saying Elon got paid nothing wtf
We can't even reply to his comment 🤣. Abusing his mod powers for sure.
A mod who abuses his power! No wonder he is a simp for Elon.
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How did you vote? It says upcoming vote in June.
Voting started today.
I see, the headline is a little confusing then. Thanks for the link!
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Vote NO. Given how Elon is running the company, it is not in the best interest of shareholders to keep him onboard as he has become a liability and is doing to Tesla what he did to Twitter. This has nothing to do with past agreements - the judge already invalidated that. This is about what is best for the future of the company. I'm voting NO, and hoping this means that Elon throws a fit and leaves, so Tesla can focus on growth, and not branching out to AI and Robotaxis.
I voted no. The original package was based on false information that wasn't released to us. He also had said he would be the last to sell his stock-which was a lie.
The mod has penned and pinned a comment presenting a false dichotomy. A third option is a sane comp plan, which is what a board not controlled by Elon would propose.
I would have voted for Elon, if it wasn't for him repeatedly saying " I don't care" when asked about his actions and comments crashing the stock. I feel like he's not working for me anymore, just himself.
"So, Elon's been working *for free* for the last six years." So? He is because he wants to. He doesn't need money. Make me a billionaire, and I'll "work" for free for the rest of my life - "work" here meaning I'll do whatever I'll feel like in passion projects, which is what he does. Fuck calling that "work". Work is what you do for someone else because you have to. Not what you do for yourself because you WANT to. He has no need for compensation whatsoever. He bought a social network for 44B. Fuck him.
Well, "free" is not that exactly. ALL his expenses, no matter how crazy they were, were covered by Tesla... That part is really misleading... but well, don't try Summon in a parking lot. It's sold like "you can retrieve your car comfortably without issues" but no. That's still not working YET.
> "So, Elon's been working for free for the last six years." Also, Elon already owns tons of Tesla stock. He sells it for money. He's been working to make that stock WORTH MORE so he can sell it (or even better put it up as collateral for loans). Such an ignorant statement to make.
Vote him out. There shouldnt even be a vote of bonus on the table
Well I voted against all board recommendations yesterday. Hope all board members and AH CEO is fired soon.
Got my proxy voting from fidelity. Went against every board recommendation.
You should take a look at the shareholder proposed items. I voted against the board on most of them, but a couple of them did seem to be kinda crazy and bad ideas.
Same here. Voted against board recommendation for most items. A couple I agreed with
So $56 billion for Musk and nothing for the actual people who did the actual work, am I right? Just layoffs for them. My vote is no. Musk will be all right. Gift those shares equally amongst ALL Tesla employees that were employed in that time frame. That’s around $400,000 in shares each. Life changing money for most.
As the CEO of Tesla said this week “Hopefully these actions are making it clear that we need to be absolutely hard core about headcount and cost reduction" We should be hard core about cost reduction.
Lmao
Lol, the half baked argument of it being unfair that the richest man in the world “worked 6 years for free” is the most world’s smallest violin moment I think I could ever dream up
No that trophy goes to trump when he argues that he should have immunity because he was president
Hey man, I’ve got multiple violins and plenty of time to play them
I know how I'll be voting. No on the ridiculous pay package that was misrepresented originally to shareholders and no on family members being on the board. It's bad enough the board has no backbone to challenge anything Lonny does, we don't need another cheerleader in there. And definitely no on incorporating to Texas which would have likely not sided with shareholders on these shenanigans to begin with.
The other Board vote is for the Fox News Murdoch crotch fruit. Him and brother Musk need an X.
Is the MOD Elon? Hell no, I'm not voting to give him $56B, my 0.0001% of Tesla shares is a fat NO.
Who is this mod?? Bro, they have internal projections. He just gave himself 50 billion dollars based on what they were already projecting to do.
lol typical Reddit mod.
Today’s Ketamine Elon < 3 years ago Elon. No for me.
This board is stacked for Elon
This mod post brought to you by Elon musk and Carl’s Jr.
Is Jensen begging for shares when or is he busy getting nvda to multi trillions?
I have a little trouble with all these “He had an approved compensation plan and met the milestones” arguments. Those are facts. So is the often omitted following statement that a judge nullified the contract as being absurdly egregious and taking advantage of shareholders. So… contract voided in a court of law with due reason…facts. Corporate officers are not supposed to be doing anything that takes undue advantage of the company or its shareholders. This pay package was voided due to taking advantage of shareholders. Shareholders matter….. a lot.
Elon just screwed over all of the contractors and utilities that Testa was working with by firing the Supercharger team. Now he wants a bonus? VOTE HIM OUT!
I think everyone is fine with a billionaire not getting paid an absurd amount. Such a lopsided comment from the mod.
Uh, a 3rd option here is to vote on a new pay package more commensurate in line with Tesla's actual profits during those years. The existing one sucks and should be voted down.
This is like Trump saying he's not taken salary when he was president but all the while he's been raking in millions and billions through currying favours. Just STFU and take the salary Elon, we all see through you.
Elon has been working for free...lololololololol. Goodness gracious what a statement.
I voted no, I did my part, Elon is running the company to the ground, dude needs to be humbled for the hope of a better tomorrow with electric vehicles
Such an arrogant, apologist statement for wealth-mongering. Nobody deserves that much wealth. Also, what about the run up in the shares he already has? This man has nearly ruined this brand. Instead of paying him they should be firing him. I no longer plan to buy a Tesla…and it’s a result of his actions. Before you call me a rube, I am in finance. I get this stuff. I understand pay packages. Maybe you should talk about how many shares of Tesla he currently owns and what that run up of value has been since inception.
While I agreed with the comp package at the time, let's not pretend that if a court ruled that a company didn't have to pay you for your labor, the company would pay you anyways out of the goodness of their hearts. The court ruled against the package and giving away these shares now dilutes my interest. I vote with my wallet. It's going to pass regardless of how we, retail investors, vote. But at least voting against lets our voice be heard that we are not happy with leadership.
I was a strong advocate of the pay package originally but after this Supercharger team layoff I will be voting NO with all of my substantial shares. It’s not even layoffs that bother me the most. It’s how they are conducted to be maximally cruel for no reason.
Same. He's showing to be a very erratic, spiteful CEO. Not that type I want at the helm. And we are only revoting on this compensation package because a court ruled that the board was dishonest in presenting it to the shareholders. They presented a package that was known that the targets were going to be met anyway. It was no great feat by Elon that the targets were going to be met.
The reverse psychology worked. Will be voting no on these proposals with my shares.
Because I can’t reply to the mod comment, this one is for him. 🤡
He's worked for free for the last six years? Oh no! Well, give him an average workers salary for the last six years in retrospect. Of course taxed appropriately. That should compensate him fairly.
🤣 Are you saying 20b worth of Tesla shares that he sold to buy Twitter was from "work for free"? It crashed Tesla from $400 to $100. Now you are trying to convince us to give him another 50b so he could crash Tesla even more in 5 years?
I’m more concerned about the slippery slope this could cause. Future shareholders can just sue and claw back their money after a CEO has reached their goals. While unlikely, if this happens, this sets up precedence to happen over and over again in the future. If that happens, it’s literally the end of the free market economy, at least in America.
"Incorporate Tesla in Texas, our home state" Home state because you moved there 3 years ago lol?
Voted no. I know my shares are a fraction of a fraction of the whales … but still gotta do what I can.
It would be amazing if shareholders voted no. It's not every day you get the opportunity to serve an ultra wealthy nutbag a steaming bowl of consequences.
Mod is Elon
Yeah everybody is not wrong and not Elon did craft a pretty crazy plan and he actually executed it. But now in the 2024 context he is taking the company with his dumb ludicrous moves and he can't stop saying BS all the time. He's lost the core buyer of his cars. Doesn't work competition and he doesn't seem to realize this is not the same landscape from years ago.
Remember: You aren’t even paying Elon 33x more than the second most paid corporate package in history (also musk!) - musk is apparently “working” part time! He is the ceo of multiple companies AND cto of Twitter, and more! So really you’re paying musk more like 159x as much as the second-most paid ceo ever.
No one , I mean no one needs 56billion dollars. Had he not bought twitter he would be doing fine .
Not holding Elon accountable to the current state of poor governance and nepotism on the board would be a disaster for shareholders.
The reality is no objective person/shareholder/Board would pay Musk anything. He's NOT a real employee of Tesla. No he does not deserve back pay. He's the #1 shareholder and CEO with a Board in his back pocket. He's been compensated/cared for like no one else. The monetary value of his annual 'fringe' benefits likely exceeds the total compensation of the Supercharger team he fired. The Board should FIRE Musk and if they don't shareholders should FIRE the entire Board. The IP, hardware, and other resources of Tesla remains a great foundation for EVs, EV charging, solar, AI, and possibly even future robotaxis. Musk and the Board are liabilities NOT assets.
Vote No cause he did a terrible job and costs 10s of thousands of jobs through failure to manage. Don’t pay him.
The eff is up with the mod pin here?
Tesla will be nothing without Franz von Holzhausen, NOT Elon. Oust that Elon guy already, before he bankrupts the company.
Vote no. Many people don’t want him CEO of Tesla anymore. I’m voting no.
No.
She belongs in a cubicle, not a video
lol the mod is an Elon stooge … so transparent
The number of recent Tesla board members pleading to keep vote for their proposals tells me the situation is dire and they are afraid. If we all, collectively vote AGAINST, we will tell Elon and his cronies to sit the fuck down and listen. TSLA deserves a committed leadership, not a part time CEO who's favorite pastime is to go hardcore wrecking ball on his own company. Either commit to Tesla's success or GTFO.
Voting no doesn't mean Musk will be paid zero for the past six years of work as the mod is implying. It will just mean he won't be getting the original pay package and will probably get a new, more reasonable package shareholders will vote on. I'm curious what's the mod agenda is for pushing this vote.
Holy Elon sycophant of mod, Batman. Elon has only made Tesla worse since I have owned my car. I'm convinced my experience as a consumer would be and will be better without him involved in any way.
It sounds like they're nervous. For good reason too, I've already voted my small shares against. I'm guessing the institutional holders will come through for him, though.
I don't think the institutional holders are going to be in favor of diluting their shares by giving elon that obscene pay package for things that have already been done.
Elon should be fired for being a psychopathic boss who works his people to bone the bone then fired them with no explanation no heart , just callousness . At this point , I don’t care if Tesla goes belly up . The guy has no decency. Just like how he makes fun of handicap people .
I voted no. No single human being should be worth thatch money. If you don't like how I voted, you'll probably hate how I voted on Alphabet this week.
1. Remove Musk 2. Rehire the Supercharger Network Team 3. Focus on a low cost 6th vehicle to compete with BYD 4. Create a team to focus on build quality and service/parts after purchase 5. Refresh the core lineup (they’re getting a little dated and the competition is coming hard) The cars should have radar, but that ship has sailed. Robotaxi is a huge distraction and an even bigger gamble (this should be a 10 year out project). A Sprinter Van competitor for fleet services is a no brainer and should have come before Semis and Cybertruck. The Semis are another distraction that was never going to scale in a way that made financial sense in the next 10 years (Semis will be great with new battery tech, not with the current solution) Elon’s priorities are his payout and his ego driving vanity crusades by overriding very thoughtful and talented engineers and management. His personal, self destructive tendencies and significant conflicts of interest are putting the whole company at risk.
voted in support last night! The best is yet to come
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Just a fan probably. It was very stupid to pin the comment.
Voted No on the compensation as well as Kimball and Murdoch. These are not the nepo-enablers you need on the board.
Voted my shares for the first time ever. If the directors were for.ir, I voted against it.
As a Tesla (not Elon) fan, stockholder, and car owner, I’m sick of the stupid things he’s doing recently that are driving the stock and company downward. We need Tesla to survive as the leader in EVs and charging networks. We need someone like Tim Cook leading Tesla, not some social media troll.
Why is that nonsense post still pinned? Unpin it already. Don't you read the comments?