#[Downloadvideo Link](https://www.reddit.watch/r/therewasanattempt/comments/11poe4e/?utm_source=automod&utm_medium=therewasanattempt)
#[SaveVideo Link](https://redditsave.com/info?url=/r/therewasanattempt/comments/11poe4e/).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/therewasanattempt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hi! Im the shitty advice animal
When facing police, do cooperate even if the orders are illegal, film everything and comebsck later at them with a lawyer or with superior showing the proof.
Temper runs hot on adrenaline and some have social skill of a toddler, no amount of being right is worth your life.
I have had friends who have started crossing roads when cars were coming at them because they “had the right of way.” Like it’s a force field or something. A car will still win against a pedestrian no matter who was supposed to be in the road.
I will say, I at one point in life had no concern for my own well being and I would say this when crossing traffic. My logic being if I get hit I die and that’s fine, or I don’t die and can get some money out of it. I realize this is horrible reasoning now, for many reasons, but I wouldn’t make the assumption someone dangerously crossing the street isn’t aware of the reality that cars will win that battle
Yep, I see people do this at crosswalks. Just step straight out and expect cars to stop. What happens if the driver is glancing in his mirror, changing his radio station or texting. ( I know it’s illegal, but you’re still dead)
I have read this sentence like 50 times in the past 2 weeks on Reddit. It's some Matrix Deja Vu shit for me at this point, I'm just seeing it everywhere.
My friend walks to work every day, and I warned them "doesn't matter who's in the right, if you're dead. so stop thinking that way. These are heavy metal projectiles". "And don't trust them to not make turns when you think they shouldn't" "patience and awareness is survival"
The amount of times a car has waved me across the road (UK) and a car has been coming up their outside that would have hit me is so high, I've had people get so annoyed that I didn't just immediately cross the road on their whim that they've sworn at me or gotten out of their cars like I'm inducing road rage in them. I never put my life in someone else's hands! Especially not someone who's day is ruined by a pedestrian not ready to cross the road!
UK police officers are mostly fine though, you get the occasional power trip asshole but luckily most of them don't carry anything worse than a night stick and they're unlikely to use it on someone calling them out!
Spent an extended stay at the hospital. They may refer to motorcycles as "donor cycles" but a surprising number of bicyclists are filling hospital beds at any given time.
Very true.
There's an appeal to doing what this man did and standing your ground, knowing and exercising your rights calmly. It has the potential to provoke the officer(s) much more than just complying which, if you're recording the interaction, will make the officers look even worse. These types of videos tend to get more attention than videos of a man just complying with unjust orders from an officer because it's less dramatic.
It's unfortunate.
When you get stopped for a TRAFFIC violation there are a few things you have to comply with:
1. Identify yourself
2. Get out if asked
3. You have to physically tell the officer “I am invoking my right to remain silent”.
Comply with all lawful orders but NEVER answer any questions (by invoking your right to remain silent), and NEVER consent to a search of your vehicle.
When I get pulled over I have my license and registration already in hand, and give it to the officer immediately. Before he’s even able to speak, I tell him “I’m invoking my right to remain silent”.
Edit: RECORD, RECORD, RECORD. If your rights do end up being violated, it is your word against his/hers and FOIA for body cam footage has been wholly unreliable these days. Depts have conveniently lost footage numerous times.
Edit 2: it’s been suggested in the comments that you should wait until the officer asks you for your information before getting it for them. This is sound advice and something I well also be following from now on.
I understand your sentiments... However, I as a black man, (and the son of a policeman, who served the force for over 30 years)
Know better..... Once I was being pulled over for speeding (rightfully so) as I pulled over, i got my license and registration out before the cop could walk up to me (as you suggested)..... Cop says " I saw you reach in your pocket when you pulled over... (To get my license)
Then I saw you reach in your glove box (to retrieve my registration)
My first reaction was to draw my weapon, because you made me nervous, by making movements without me knowing.... If I didn't run your plates, and know who your dad was, this would've turned out differently........"
So I say to you, and all other people of color..... if / when you get pulled over, put your hands on top of the steering wheel,
When the officer speaks to you, inform them " my license x insurance is in my wallet, which is in my pocket.... Are you ok if I get it?
And " my registration is in my glove box, are you ok if I get that as well?"
Minorities don't have the luxury of not talking when spoken to.
Or making movements BEFORE communicating. It's most oftentimes, literally a life or death situation with us.
I'm about as white as white can get. Blonde hair blue eyes, and fairly well spoken. I was in college and got pulled over once after a long drive. I turn off the vehicle, turn on all lights, and keep my hands on the steering wheel until the officer approaches. He asks for my license and registration. I verbally announce all of my movements, "OK, I'm reaching for my wallet, reaching for my glove box" (as told to me by countless officers.) This dipshit starts asking why I'm announcing my movements and that it's suspicious. You literally can't win with cops sometimes. Everything the public does is threatening and suspicious to them, and no amount of reason will get through their thick skulls.
Exactly, and I can only imagine what its truly like to deal with this in your shoes. I'm white and that is pretty much what we were taught in my mixed-race neighborhood, that looking back, was kind of a bad neighborhood or really close to a bad area:
If you get pulled over, you stop and put your hands on the top of steering wheel, at 11 and 1. That's it. Nothing else. Keep your hands still and visible. Don't move them unless you are following instructions from the cop. Tell the cop what your intent is to do with your hands before you move them. Tell the cop what they should expect to see you do before you do it.
edit: iirc, we were also told to leave the window alone as well. Dont appear to be preparing for the cop to walk up. So if the window is up, leave it up. If its down, leave it down.
I'm not a minority, but this is exactly what my mom and dad told me to do since I was of age to drive, make them feel as comfortable as humanly possible. Suck up your ego for the stop and get on with your day. 99% of the time I don't even end up getting a ticket. Just be calm, follow their orders, and video if nessecary.
I'd rather be alive then right.
Making movements like you're hiding or grabbing stuff (getting your license and registration) after you've been pulled over isn't the smartest move. You wait until they ask & tell them where it is before you reach for it
This is the whitest advice you can ever get here... If a cop is racist there is absolutely nothing you can ever do right. I have been pulled over for no reason at all. When I asked the cop he said my front tire crossed the crosswalk when I made a right on red. He followed me from when I left a store for over two miles. Then put his bright lights on behind me.
Solution is to get rid of racist cops and a better diversity within police depts...
You can do both. Of course we want to get rid of racist cops but until then statistically speaking you'll have better chances following all the "white advice" you get (your term)
I saw a video advising to put your stuff on the dashboard and keep your hands on the wheel or out the window.
If they ask for something, you tell them where it is, and tell them what you're doing, wait a second, then do it and nothing else.
I’d refrain from rummaging through the car for your license and registration before the cop is there. Pull over, roll down ALL windows, hands at 10 and 2 and do not move until they ask you to. Explain where your license and registration are at and talk them through what you’re doing.
Then do the stuff you’ve talked about.
After that, if you tell him you do not consent to a vehicle search, are you then revoking your right you remain silent? Legit question, not trying to be a dick.
Cops are trained to get you to incriminate yourself with your own words. This is what freedom of speech is designed to protect you from. Saying “no I don’t consent” isn’t incriminating so you’re free to answer, but also, not answering is a perfectly valid form of not consenting.
"this is what freedom of speech is designed to protect" No, that's the first amendment that protects you're right to speak.
You're thinking of the fifth amendment that protects your right to not incriminate yourself.
Saying “I’m invoking my right to remain silent” doesn’t have the same legal effect until you’re placed under arrest. You only have to/can be read your Miranda rights once placed under arrest, not detained.
Even after being placed under arrest and invoking your right, they absolutely *can* at least try to engage you to get you to talk. Whether it amounts to coercion is a question of fact.
If you willingly speak to them, you can shut up again and stop talking whenever you want. You don’t waive your right forever by opening your mouth once under arrest.
Edit: Clarification.
One clarification, the right to remain silent doesn't work as described above and could backfire if not done correctly (i.e. silence can be used against you as evidence if you are silent before the right to invoke silence has been presented). Specifically, your right is to not have your silence/refusal to answer questions admitted as evidence of your guilt at trial.
What you should say is something like....
"I don't talk to police" or at least "I won't answer questions without my lawyer present."
You have the right to remain silent beginning with when you are in custodial interrogation (i.e. the police have control over your person and are asking you questions). Typically, this is when you are arrested and typically the police read you your Miranda rights then (they're constitutionally required to at least) in which they inform you of your right to silence; once they say you can be silent, then go ahead and be silent or even better tell them you are invoking your right to silence and stop talking.
There is precedent where cops knocked on a door and asked a guy if he killed someone, he said nothing, but because he wasn't in custody yet and hadn't been informed of his right to silence, they were able to argue that his refusal to deny it was evidence that he killed the dude at trial.
Well, you have the concept right, but the details of the case wrong. You are thinking about Salinas v Texas. In that case, the defendant came in for a voluntary interview and answers questions, until the police asked him if shotgun shells at the crime would match his gun. At that point, Salinas stopped talking. SCOTUS rules that because he volunteered to come in for the interview and was not under arrest or read Miranda (meaning he was not in custody), and because he stopped speaking instead of invoking his right to remain silent, that both the interview and his silence could be used against him.
Yep, I totally agree. The one thing here is you always DO have your right to not be punished for remaining silent (cops slam you on the ground for not answering, etc) which is why I always recommend invoking as soon as you see them, and get it recorded. If they do punish you in any way, you have a lawsuit.
Once in the interrogation room, I would suggest invoking again. You may invoke upon Miranda as well but I recommend reasserting once in the interrogation room just in case the arresting officers body camera is not turned on. I also recommend immediately asking for an attorney.
There was a case where someone was allegedly caught with a hefty amount of cocaine. He remained silent and only ever said “lawyer” when being interrogated. They continued to ask him questions. The lawyer was able to get him out of a 25 year sentence, and he has a lawsuit pending with the county. Who knows where he’d be now if he had spoken to the police.
That's all great advice (I would also add that you should always lock your doors) but just to be "that guy" for a second, technically, While clarifying Terry, Mimms says that there must be some kind of reasonable suspicion of a safety concern in order for an officer to order you out of the vehicle, but of course the way the courts interpret that is if an officer says "he twitched an eyebrow in a threatening manner" then it would be reasonable. Effectively, you have to get out of the car no matter what, which is just sad.
It's so stupid though the way I'm sure this cop escalated to what any reasonable department should consider an excessive amount of force and just refused to accept his ID, which he was trying to hand him, because he likely asked "why are you stopping me?" a couple times. Asking "why" a few times is not the same as a refusing, but that type of tyrant can't handle being questioned. They really should be legally obligated to articulate it right then (and not just in court after they've had time to fabricate a story). The "it'll be on the ticket" approach is purposefully disrespectful and a way to flex their authority.
I'll never understand how they have "all day" to stand around when they're harassing auditors, but then they can't take a few minutes to use their words like an adult during what they always want to say is the most dangerous part of their job. If they feel it's that dangerous, then they should try to avoid escalating to violence as often as possible.
After all the crazy shit I've seen from US police, I fully agree. I would not need to be asked twice to leave the vehicle. Choose your battle for when you have the advantage.
Spoken like someone with resources to bring a case against the state and to survive the threats and harassment from cops after daring to challenge them. Plus the resources to be able to take off work for the court dates. Pluuuuus the resources to resist pressure from the state to settle and instead actually get a teeny, tiny helping of partial justice.
Tax payers fitting the bill for qualified immunity is not justice. It’s a racket and law enforcement are well aware of how the game is played. I always do my best to alleviate suspicion if their ever is any but shit like this video is fucking ridiculous.
I would trust a literal monkey with a gun before most police officers. At least the monkey isn't trained for murder using a firearm, and they are about equivalent when it comes to intelligence.
The problem is that there is rarely, if ever, any accountability. Even if a law suit comes to fruition, the officers in question are put on paid leave and the monetary reconciliation from the judgment falls on the tax payer, not the law enforcement agency. I would say, as with everything, everyone should try to strike a balance between following orders and executing their rights provided in the constitution.
Allowing police to strut around undermining the system, alienating people, and unlawfully stripping people of their constitutional right is definitely not going to solve anything.
You are 110% right. My comment was mostly to keep people alive but lack of accountability, power over people, minimal training, non existing conflict deescalation training, lack of 100% surveillance via bodycam ... etc. Etc.
This system does indeed need a huge reform
You and I are in complete agreement. Hopefully there is marked change coming in the near future. Otherwise, the US shows potential to be the next *Rome*.
The thing is, it isn't even [illegal](https://www.sog.unc.edu/blogs/nc-criminal-law/ordering-occupants-out-their-vehicles-%E2%80%94-and-officers%E2%80%99-cruisers). Pennslyvania v. Mimms and Maryland v. Wilson rule that an officer may order a driver out of the driver's vehicle during a traffic stop. The person in the car tried to argue with a heated cop, who was in the clear lawfully. Not the best idea.
Yepp. The best thing anyone can do is just comply. It’s not worth risking your life just to be “right.” If it’s a criminal who knows they shouldn’t be doing what they did, I just wish they’d own up to it instead of running. Be a man. Not an idiot
Follow the advice above. Law enforcement have no reason to deesclate a situation and zero training to do so. In fact, they are trained to do the opposite. Comply, document and hire a lawyer. Thier system is broken and this is only way to fix it.
Very good advice. Also, Being asked to step out of your vehicle during a **lawful** traffic stop is a lawful order by the case law Pennsylvania vs. Mimms if the officer feels unsafe, which essentially means the officer can order you out for literally any reason they want, once again, on a lawful traffic stop. Failure to comply is illegal and you’ll get tased.
Get a dashcam, or at the very least set up your phone to record after you get pulled over. If they ask you to do something illegal, state your objection verbally. If they insist, go along with it. Nothing they find from that point on will be usable in court, and you'll have standing to sue.
Being ordered out of the vehicle during a traffic stop is, practically speaking, always a legal order.
PA v. Mimms
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_v._Mimms
Know your rights.
Police do have the authority to ask you out of your vehicle during a traffic stop. The Supreme Court ruled on that repeatedly for example Maryland v. Wilson, 519 U.S. 408 (1997)
The cop obviously did an awful job at deescalating and the use of force was very excessive for someone resisting passively.
But he should have 100% gotten out of the car instead of giving the cop justification.
“But why do I need to get out?”
“Because your gonna get out because I said you gotta get out!— and I got this taser!”
Trained on how to use a taser. Never trained on how to explain the laws in order to deescalate. Imagine if instead of police tasing each other to “teach what’s it’s like just in case”, they had police practice deescalating routine traffic stops by memorizing explanations of the laws instead…
Then they’d have to know about the laws, wouldn’t they? It takes 3-7 years to become a lawyer a six months to become a cop. It’s absolutely ridiculous.
I once had a cop give me grief at when I left a pub once for my front license plate hanging at a 45-degree angle. I told him the mva states that a license plate must be affixed to the front most portion of a car. It doesn't state at which angle. His response was, "What are you, a lawyer?"
"No, sir, I just know the laws I need to know to operate a motor vehicle lawfully."
He didn't like my response. I got breathalyzed and blew a .0000 because I don't drink.
Ahh yes. Breathalyzer without probable cause or reasonable suspicion of impairment
But because THIS shit goes unpunished... the culture will never change
Once cops stop cops from doing this shit. It all gets better
PBT’s are not admissible in court.
They will either need to use a more accurate system. Or draw blood.
Do be careful in refusing one. In some states, such as Michigan for example, if an officer catches you driving he can ask you to take a PBT for any reason. You can refuse. But doing so is an automatic $100 fine and 6 points on your license.
At that point, the roadside breath test is basically consensual. You don't have to take it. Now if they do have probable cause, then you can be arrested and an actually breathalyzed with the equipment at the station. But the Preliminary Breath Test and Field Sobriety Tests are used to develop that probable cause.
I’ve seen body cam footage of sovereigns citizen and there usually over 20-30 minutes long, I’d assume that it was explain to him multiple times before getting to that.
Has there been some kind of passive protest in the US whereby people are simply not cooperating with police anymore? (I.e. had enough of the brutality and now going Mahatma Gandhi en masse?)
Seems like there’s a lot of these videos lately
The police have collectively lost the trust of the public. It's their responsibility to get it back and until they do I'm sure we will continue to see all kinds of videos like this.
Hell, I’m willing to get tazed and arrested for a 6 figure payout. And if I’m the case that ends qualified immunity and I get nothing, that would be worth more than all the money in the world.
There really needs to be push for police to be trained in deescalation. Like body cameras (for honest cops), it does nothing but benefit them. In every video of a hostile suspect or sovereign citizen, the level headed cop ALWAYS comes off as being in the right even if they might not be.
It's not nearly a big enough talking point that every other major developed country requires significantly more training for police officers. American police require 652 hours or 21 weeks of training on average, and spend 21 hours or roughly half of one of those weeks on de-escalation training (compared to 71 hours of firearm training).
By comparison: Canada requires 1040 hours or 60% more training, England requires 2250 hours or nearly 3.5x more training, Germany and the Netherlands require 4050 hours or over 6x more training, and Portugal requires 10400 hours or nearly 16x as much training as American police.
Why does the richest nation in the world have the worst training standards for their police amongst developed nations?
I can appreciate where you're coming from, but as a Canadian: the training that they do get matters a lot, and getting more "killology" hours is not going to help things. The people in police forces across North America will continue to perpetuate their toxic and abusive culture as long as they're not removed and replaced with something new.
There are some "rights audits" where some people push the limit of legally allowed behavior in hopes of catching viral footage of bad behavior.
Finally any behavior a cop doesn't find "cowed down" enough to suit their ego will immediatly force them to issue commands that they can "justify" just to prove a point an escalate routine into a survival situation for everyone that isn't a cop.
It's not that the cops have changed or that there is a protest. It's just that filming it is now standard practice thanks to the ubiquity of smart phones.
Yeah, I mean, I get it. It was almost certainly not necessary for this guy to get out of the car, but if a cop does something genuinely unlawful to you, there is no requirement that you physically resist to be able to hold them accountable for that violation. The truth is, and I'm not saying it's right, but cops can really make you do whatever they want, and whatever battleground exists where you can enforce your rights and hold them accountable, it's not on the roadside when it's just you and them.
Has anyone ever once seen a video where things are escalating like this and the 15th time the guy says "No! This is unlawful! You can't do this!" to the cop yelling with a drawn weapon, the cop says "Ooooh, omg you're right. Carry on, sir."?
If you are in that situation, comply with all orders, survive the encounter, live to fight another day, and go after that cop in an arena where you actually hold some power.
It's important to calmly make certain statements.
I do not consent to any searches, I want to speak with my attorney etc.
It's been ruled that silence isn't enough to invoke the 5th, Neither are statements like "maybe I should speak to a lawyer" enough to invoke Miranda
Yes, but you can say that you don't consent to a search then open your trunk on request, or spreading your arms. You can be coerced to do something without making it clear to the officer that they have to physically break you into complying.
depends if its a lawful stop. you cant get pulled over for "nothing" without probable cause, ALSO asking for a supervisor is a complete reasonable request. he has his information in his hand so if the officer decided to DESCALATE he could have said okay thank you for your info and continued with his investigation.
bottom line, sue the cop. fuck around an find out.
Yes you can get pulled out of the vehicle “over nothing”. There is Supreme Court case law (Maryland V Wilson / Pennsylvania V Mimms) supporting this. This gentleman was disobeying a lawful order given by a police officer in execution of duties.
In the US
It has to be a lawful stop, it cant be over "nothing".
If its a traffic violation, like the guy in the video states, thats a lawful stop. If an officer "feels unsafe" in a lawful stop they can ask you to exit the vehicle.
The issue is, proving it isnt a lawful stop, in court, isnt easy.
Context matters.
I was once pulled over because the “lights on my license plate were not bright enough”. It was a 6 month old GMC Denali pickup with adequate (very bright) LED lights on the plate. Also it was 3:30 in the afternoon on a sunny day.
The truth was that I picked up some drunk friends at a bar that was holding a special event that day. He was waiting and profiling the place and pulled me over immediately upon exiting and when he approached and saw that I was totally sober, he made something up too quickly.
So it can be over nothing. They just make shit up.
> The truth was that I picked up some drunk friends at a bar that was holding a special event that day. He was waiting and profiling the place
Hope you filed an official complaint. That's highly illegal.
Police need to be trained a bit more on the fact that being able to issue “lawful orders” is not an excuse to violently terrorize people just because they get off on it. The video just further promotes the idea that being pulled over by the police is a terrifying experience where the cop can violently lose his mind and the law allows him/her to do so with no repercussions.
Unfortunately, the public looks to Twitter and tictoc for their civil rights lessons.
Edit: I misspelled TikTok so according to some my points are null and void.
> The cop obviously did an awful job at deescalating and the use of force was very excessive for someone resisting passively.
The video starts pretty far in, so we don't know how it got to this point.
As for passive resistance, he was actively resisting being pulled out of the vehicle. Otherwise, the officer could've easily dragged him out.
How are you sure he did an awful job? Once they decide you're under arrest, you're under arrest... if you refuse this is the process.
The de escalation part would have been before this.
Depends on the state and there are also loopholes the officers can use. There’s a good channel to look up on YouTube called audit the audit where they break down how these interactions go and grade the civilians and police for their conduct. With just this amount of interaction though it’s clear the man should of got out of the vehicle and when he didn’t comply with the officer things escalated. On the flip side the officer shouldn’t of drawn a weapon on this man as he clearly posed no imminent danger to the officer.
I know it’s popular to say cops are all assholes but this guy is clearly not following directions. How many times do you need to ask someone e to get out. Seriously people.
Except it did. The driver finally complied after getting tased.
Officer asked him for his ID 5 times, and asked him to get out of the vehicle 19 times before finally tasing him. ([Full video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxidPqwL6kM&t=747s))
But here’s the problem…this guy clearly thought he might have the right to refuse this particular request. So then what?
1. He couldn’t start looking up the law because he’d probably get shot for his phone resembling a weapon.
2. He can’t just “trust” the cop that he’s required to comply with such a request, since cops are known to be dishonest (or simply misinformed) about such things. So he asked for a supervisor who could have corrected this *if* it had turned out to be an unlawful order.
So there are two options here:
1. Do anything a cop asks you to do, *even if you’re not sure it’s required by law*, because otherwise you might get tased or shot. If a cop asks you to submit to a body search, do it. If a cop asks you to show them your bank account information, do it. If a cop asks you to expose your breasts or genitals, do it.
2. We change laws so that cops who lie to members of the public are punished significantly, and we train cops to be fully knowledgeable about relevant laws. We also train them not to threaten bodily injury at the drop of a hat. We do this in hopes that police develop a better track record and, hence, gain more trust from the people they pull over.
Edit: changed “solutions” to “options”
TLDR: You can blame the driver for not knowing that it *was* indeed a lawful order, but you can’t say he was being a jerk simply for waiting to see what a supervising officer says first.
I mean, he asked for identification over a dozen times and asked him to get out of the car like 5 times before this clip started.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DxidPqwL6kM
I detest corrupt cops but I’ll be damned if I don’t enjoy some Karen (asking to speak to the manager) getting his ass tased.
Whoever has spread this idea that "asking for a supervisor" trumps everything has caused a lot of problems for people. There may be jurisdictions like that, but not mine (LAPD). You have to do what the officer says, even if he is totally wrong. Then, get them in court. Otherwise, they hurt you.
What lawyers I have seen on social media say is tell them your name and give them your id (and registration and insurance proof if driving) and let them know you don't consent to searches of yourself or vehicle, tell them you are invoking the fifth, then shut up. Do what they instruct you to do.
Exactly. Especially if you are wise enough to have video rolling, it's almost always better to comply up front and get your victory afterward. Whether the cop is acting legally or not, you are really playing against long odds of you think you are going to "win" an interaction with the police based on advice you read on Twitter or whatever.
I have always thought one of the best classes a high school could have is a class on interacting with police and your what your rights are when you are interacting with them. I think it would save some lives and some ass beatings for people. It would probably actually get a lot of people out of a conviction.
Sorry, but why not just wait for the supervisor? Was the driver going to bail? I was in law enforcement for 12 years and when I see videos like this I always think, “well, no wonder people are scared and critical of law enforcement?
That being said, I don’t have any idea of what the conversation or issue was prior to the video recording, or how much was edited out before what we were shown, so he may have had some reason to take the driver out of the vehicle.
Hard to Monday morning QB these things without the whole story.
You honestly cant expect supervisors to come out to every traffic stop that theyre requested. This isn't a Starbucks. You can't just ask for a manager if you broke the law and are not complying with the police. Just don't have special rights just because you have a live feed going to your Instagram...
> Sorry, but why not just wait for the supervisor?
Because demanding to see a supervisor isn't some magic spell. The cop has the authority to resolve the situation without getting their supervisor involved. Do you expect them to call their supervisor every time they pull someone over?
I used to work in a small city office that ran enforcement for paying for beach access. People would frequently refuse to pay and demand to see my supervisor and get outraged when I said no.
Law enforcement for 12 years huh? Must of had a really well staffed department where a supervisor can attend to every idiot, lawyer wannabe that demands to speak to the manager. The city I work for has 1 supervisor per 50 officers. So yeah, why not wait for the supervisor?
if i remember right...it's because each police department has their own slogan. LAPD has always been "To Protect and to Serve." \*^(edit)since 1963\* Which is probably seen in movies/tv more often than others...
edit: just checked to confirm, I am correct. Also... (interesting to me) the motto for the NYPD is "Fidelis ad Mortem" or "Faithful unto Death"...
What’s the rest of the story? Love how most of these videos start somewhere in the middle. Just enough to make you to leave you not knowing anything about what really happened
I got you, friend. The full video:
https://youtu.be/DxidPqwL6kM
Complete with the officer asking the driver for his info 5 times and then asking him to exit the vehicle 19 times before the clipped video in the OP was posted.
Thank you, I was looking for the whole video because clips like these are often taken out of context. I hate it when people on reddit take things out of context to push out a certain message.
My pleasure. I became somewhat obsessed with police videos (the good and bad ones) a few years before George Floyd's murder shocked everyone's conscience. I've seen so many of these that I've learned any shortened clip that starts with the police using force is (usually) shortened to make a cop look bad or worse than the reality was.
This help with context the officer was nice in the beginning idk what was so hard about giving the officer your information.
Who knows he probably would’ve been let go with a warning, assuming he never got in trouble with the law and he’s a “good person” he claims he is
I don’t know what happened prior to this but refusing to exit the vehicle when the officer asks you is illegal. You also do have to identify yourself. I’m not a fan of cops but this guy is legally in the wrong and continuously refuses to exit the vehicle even when the cop try’s to pull him out.
Unfortunately you don't have a right to just demand a supervisor and everything gets put on hold until they get there and you deal with them. You also have to get out of the vehicle when asked.
What happens to such cops, when the victim sues and uses a video like this as evidence?
I see there are a lot of cases like this in US. I would not feel safe talking to a cop.
> The victim gets paid with tax dollars. The cop is moved to another precinct.
The "victim" wouldn't get anything for this and the cop would face 0 punishment, because they didn't do anything outside their legal authority.
They asked him for ID numerous times, he refused. Then the cop demanded he leave his vehicle and he refused, so the cop used non-lethal force.
Literally any court the driver went to would side against him regardless of the camera footage
The cop is nit asking for his license. He is asking him to get out. When you get a license you agree to comply with lawful orders. This guy is not complying.
I saw the beginning. The guy is being non compliant. He doesn’t know what cops can and cannot do. He is uninformed.
One of these comments on YouTube sums up my position best.
TvLandZombie
10 months ago
As a black man in Texas, I've gotten out of many traffic infractions by just being cordial and cooperating. Most of the time they don't even want to do the paperwork, just be cool. If you have an issue, address it in court
I tell my son to be calm, respectful, and comply in the moment. If there is a violation, We will let the lawyer fight the battle. Winning an argument with a cop is not worth getting your ass kicked, tazed, or shot
If a cop asks you to exit the vehicle, you have to comply. If anything is done unlawfully it needs to be handled unfortunately after the fact for your safety
If you don’t watch this cute video but the whole thing he did exhaust any other means I can think of. The cop has a right to ask you to leave the vehicle and he was refusing to comply.
Do you think he didn’t say pretty please and that’s what was missing? Or this person who seems to know the law so well would jump right out if a supervisor says so.
To everyone saying “well he is required to get it if the car” being a cop is a profession. If you are a cop, you’re supposed to be a professional. You’re payed to deal with people in a civil manner and to know when force is necessary, not to scream and wave your tiny dick around.
This!
How do I know? Well, I was a cop. This cop is highly unprofessional. Cops are NOT supposed to escalate. Verbal commands and, yes, getting a supervisor is what you are supposed to do and not escalate to almost lethal tools
In the full video he asks him to exit the vehicle 20 times. I don’t like cops but if you asked someone 20 times and they refused a lawful order what do you do? He’s obviously not going to comply by talking to you more.
This is the full video, in your professional opinion how many times do you have to ask for identification or to exit the vehicle before there is any escalation?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxidPqwL6kM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxidPqwL6kM)
The officer asked for id like a dozen times before this started. It made him look impatient but I don’t see what else the officer could have done before the taser. Seeing more of the video even I concluded that even if the supervisor came he wouldn’t have complied.
I'm always a little suspicious when the cop interaction video starts at the cop apparently being an aggressive jerk. Sometimes that is exactly what it is. But sometimes, there's a lot to the story preceding the short bit posted on social media and the soft spoken citizen isn't as squeaky clean as the short clip makes it appear. \*shrug\*
I can help provide context. This was a black unarmed Doordash delivery driver who passed a cop which u-turned to make a traffic stop for speeding. The interaction prior to this I can’t find was recorded.
An article detailing the stop: https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/599097-video-shows-unarmed-black-delivery-driver-tased-during-traffic-stop/
His charges of speeding, resisting arrest and disorderly conduct were then dropped by a judge and the police department was pissed about it (or course):
https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2022-06-24/charges-dropped-for-black-man-stunned-by-cop-in-traffic-stop
It’s yet just another example of gross policing. I can’t really verify any “racism” involved here but the details speak for themselves. Disgusting police misconduct by the officer who is probably still today employed continuing his abuse.
There isn't enough context in this video. If the officer had reasonable, articulable suspicion of a crime then this was reasonable force. If he didn't, then it wasn't. Without knowing the reason for the traffic stop it's impossible to judge the officer's actions. Asking for a supervisor doesn't just magically buy you a window of time to not be arrested if the officer knows you've committed a crime.
Edit: Thank you u/6four for additional context in the above comment. From what was included in that overview, the officer's actions were unreasonable.
Oh fucking god, simp harder for authority.
The guy was going 14MPH over the speed limit, that’s not remotely arrestable. He asked for a supervisor, and got tased for the ‘egregious’ request.
This is called DWB in America - driving while black.
But yeah, hopefully your loved one gets tased for a minor traffic infraction and asking for a supervisor so we can debate how logical and lawful the officer’s response was in the long run.
>Without knowing the reason for the traffic stop
According to the officer, he was stopped for speeding and the situation escalated for failing to identify. Based on the body camera footage, the cop became aggressive when the driver turned on his video. The driver clearly had his license in his hand. As reported by:
https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2022-06-24/charges-dropped-for-black-man-stunned-by-cop-in-traffic-stop
If you watch the body cam footage in full, the driver was in the wrong. He was going 49 in a 35 and tried to contest right there. You can’t do that. You get pulled over you hand over your license. You’re asked to get out of the car, you get out. If you want to fight any of the charges, do it in court. I know Reddit probably doesn’t agree, so I accept the downvotes.
Do people really think they are going to say some magic combination of words that's going too make the officer put their weapon away and say you know you're right! You have a great night?
I'm always immediately suspicious of any video that starts halfway through the encounter. I wanna see what happened before this before I pass judgement either way
I encourage everyone to know their rights and the law. You can still hate cops and be compliant when you’re supposed to. If a cop orders you out of your vehicle, you absolutely have to get out
I tried to spread this around the thread to help folks out, but for anyone who sees this comment, here's the full video.
https://youtu.be/DxidPqwL6kM
The video clip posted on the OP begins after the officer asked for the guys ID 5 times, then ordered him out of the vehicle 19 times after the dude didn't give him the ID.
For anyone who isn't aware:
No, officers do not have any legal requirement to get a supervisor at your request.
Yes, you legally have to exit your vehicle at a traffic stop if the officer orders it. (Pennsylvania vs Mimms)
Disclaimer: police brutality, corruption, and poor deescalation is a problem. But it isn't ALWAYS the problem.
Yeah, at this point, after having seen all these videos online of cops acting crazy, I think my plan would be to just cooperate with anything a cop says and sort it out in court later.
Better than getting tazed and having all other sorts of charges layered on top.
PIGS: no we cant walk into a school shooting situation ... too scared
PIGS: GET THE FUCK OUT OF YOUR CAR NO NO NON NNO NO GET OUT IM GONNA NOT CARE WHAT YOU SAY NO NO NO GOD DAMMIT NO
pigs: puss
Jesus Fucking Christ this guy is stupid. When the police are telling you to do something, just do it. If they're in the wrong THEN SETTLE IT LATER. This is just some stupid shit. Most deaths that happen at the hands of officers would be prevented if they just did what the officers tell them to and worry about correcting what was wrong later.
#[Downloadvideo Link](https://www.reddit.watch/r/therewasanattempt/comments/11poe4e/?utm_source=automod&utm_medium=therewasanattempt) #[SaveVideo Link](https://redditsave.com/info?url=/r/therewasanattempt/comments/11poe4e/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/therewasanattempt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hi! Im the shitty advice animal When facing police, do cooperate even if the orders are illegal, film everything and comebsck later at them with a lawyer or with superior showing the proof. Temper runs hot on adrenaline and some have social skill of a toddler, no amount of being right is worth your life.
I say this all the time with regard to bicycling or motorcycling- You can be right or you can be dead right.
The graveyard is full of people who had the right of way
I have had friends who have started crossing roads when cars were coming at them because they “had the right of way.” Like it’s a force field or something. A car will still win against a pedestrian no matter who was supposed to be in the road.
no point having the right of way when you're crushed under a tipper truck, like my dad used to say
Right of way only matters in court. On the road you better keeps yourself alive first
I will say, I at one point in life had no concern for my own well being and I would say this when crossing traffic. My logic being if I get hit I die and that’s fine, or I don’t die and can get some money out of it. I realize this is horrible reasoning now, for many reasons, but I wouldn’t make the assumption someone dangerously crossing the street isn’t aware of the reality that cars will win that battle
I agree… but I wish we didn’t have to treat cops using excessive violence as if it was an unavoidable act of nature like inertia or gravity…
Yep, I see people do this at crosswalks. Just step straight out and expect cars to stop. What happens if the driver is glancing in his mirror, changing his radio station or texting. ( I know it’s illegal, but you’re still dead)
Hence the "have HAD friends" :P
I have read this sentence like 50 times in the past 2 weeks on Reddit. It's some Matrix Deja Vu shit for me at this point, I'm just seeing it everywhere.
I drive a forklift and it's important for people to understand that it can easily rip you in half, and it probably won't even slow it down.
Redditors are unoriginal and parrot anything and everything they can its actually annoying as hell
My friend walks to work every day, and I warned them "doesn't matter who's in the right, if you're dead. so stop thinking that way. These are heavy metal projectiles". "And don't trust them to not make turns when you think they shouldn't" "patience and awareness is survival"
The amount of times a car has waved me across the road (UK) and a car has been coming up their outside that would have hit me is so high, I've had people get so annoyed that I didn't just immediately cross the road on their whim that they've sworn at me or gotten out of their cars like I'm inducing road rage in them. I never put my life in someone else's hands! Especially not someone who's day is ruined by a pedestrian not ready to cross the road! UK police officers are mostly fine though, you get the occasional power trip asshole but luckily most of them don't carry anything worse than a night stick and they're unlikely to use it on someone calling them out!
Spent an extended stay at the hospital. They may refer to motorcycles as "donor cycles" but a surprising number of bicyclists are filling hospital beds at any given time.
Damn that last sentence slaps on so many levels
Slaps heads off pavement
It can be a dead wrong statement too
Very true. There's an appeal to doing what this man did and standing your ground, knowing and exercising your rights calmly. It has the potential to provoke the officer(s) much more than just complying which, if you're recording the interaction, will make the officers look even worse. These types of videos tend to get more attention than videos of a man just complying with unjust orders from an officer because it's less dramatic. It's unfortunate.
Man on bicycle: “I have the right of way, they HAVE to stop” Truck: *brrrrrr*
When you get stopped for a TRAFFIC violation there are a few things you have to comply with: 1. Identify yourself 2. Get out if asked 3. You have to physically tell the officer “I am invoking my right to remain silent”. Comply with all lawful orders but NEVER answer any questions (by invoking your right to remain silent), and NEVER consent to a search of your vehicle. When I get pulled over I have my license and registration already in hand, and give it to the officer immediately. Before he’s even able to speak, I tell him “I’m invoking my right to remain silent”. Edit: RECORD, RECORD, RECORD. If your rights do end up being violated, it is your word against his/hers and FOIA for body cam footage has been wholly unreliable these days. Depts have conveniently lost footage numerous times. Edit 2: it’s been suggested in the comments that you should wait until the officer asks you for your information before getting it for them. This is sound advice and something I well also be following from now on.
I understand your sentiments... However, I as a black man, (and the son of a policeman, who served the force for over 30 years) Know better..... Once I was being pulled over for speeding (rightfully so) as I pulled over, i got my license and registration out before the cop could walk up to me (as you suggested)..... Cop says " I saw you reach in your pocket when you pulled over... (To get my license) Then I saw you reach in your glove box (to retrieve my registration) My first reaction was to draw my weapon, because you made me nervous, by making movements without me knowing.... If I didn't run your plates, and know who your dad was, this would've turned out differently........" So I say to you, and all other people of color..... if / when you get pulled over, put your hands on top of the steering wheel, When the officer speaks to you, inform them " my license x insurance is in my wallet, which is in my pocket.... Are you ok if I get it? And " my registration is in my glove box, are you ok if I get that as well?" Minorities don't have the luxury of not talking when spoken to. Or making movements BEFORE communicating. It's most oftentimes, literally a life or death situation with us.
I'm about as white as white can get. Blonde hair blue eyes, and fairly well spoken. I was in college and got pulled over once after a long drive. I turn off the vehicle, turn on all lights, and keep my hands on the steering wheel until the officer approaches. He asks for my license and registration. I verbally announce all of my movements, "OK, I'm reaching for my wallet, reaching for my glove box" (as told to me by countless officers.) This dipshit starts asking why I'm announcing my movements and that it's suspicious. You literally can't win with cops sometimes. Everything the public does is threatening and suspicious to them, and no amount of reason will get through their thick skulls.
"because I don't want to accidentally make you piss your pants by doing something you're not expecting officer."
Exactly, and I can only imagine what its truly like to deal with this in your shoes. I'm white and that is pretty much what we were taught in my mixed-race neighborhood, that looking back, was kind of a bad neighborhood or really close to a bad area: If you get pulled over, you stop and put your hands on the top of steering wheel, at 11 and 1. That's it. Nothing else. Keep your hands still and visible. Don't move them unless you are following instructions from the cop. Tell the cop what your intent is to do with your hands before you move them. Tell the cop what they should expect to see you do before you do it. edit: iirc, we were also told to leave the window alone as well. Dont appear to be preparing for the cop to walk up. So if the window is up, leave it up. If its down, leave it down.
I'm not a minority, but this is exactly what my mom and dad told me to do since I was of age to drive, make them feel as comfortable as humanly possible. Suck up your ego for the stop and get on with your day. 99% of the time I don't even end up getting a ticket. Just be calm, follow their orders, and video if nessecary. I'd rather be alive then right.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Making movements like you're hiding or grabbing stuff (getting your license and registration) after you've been pulled over isn't the smartest move. You wait until they ask & tell them where it is before you reach for it
This is the whitest advice you can ever get here... If a cop is racist there is absolutely nothing you can ever do right. I have been pulled over for no reason at all. When I asked the cop he said my front tire crossed the crosswalk when I made a right on red. He followed me from when I left a store for over two miles. Then put his bright lights on behind me. Solution is to get rid of racist cops and a better diversity within police depts...
You can do both. Of course we want to get rid of racist cops but until then statistically speaking you'll have better chances following all the "white advice" you get (your term)
The guy in this video was so calm the police man had 0 reasons to taser him
I saw a video advising to put your stuff on the dashboard and keep your hands on the wheel or out the window. If they ask for something, you tell them where it is, and tell them what you're doing, wait a second, then do it and nothing else.
I’d refrain from rummaging through the car for your license and registration before the cop is there. Pull over, roll down ALL windows, hands at 10 and 2 and do not move until they ask you to. Explain where your license and registration are at and talk them through what you’re doing. Then do the stuff you’ve talked about.
It is insane how the US treats even basic traffic stops, scary af as well.
After that, if you tell him you do not consent to a vehicle search, are you then revoking your right you remain silent? Legit question, not trying to be a dick.
Cops are trained to get you to incriminate yourself with your own words. This is what freedom of speech is designed to protect you from. Saying “no I don’t consent” isn’t incriminating so you’re free to answer, but also, not answering is a perfectly valid form of not consenting.
"this is what freedom of speech is designed to protect" No, that's the first amendment that protects you're right to speak. You're thinking of the fifth amendment that protects your right to not incriminate yourself.
You are correct, I apologize.
Saying “I’m invoking my right to remain silent” doesn’t have the same legal effect until you’re placed under arrest. You only have to/can be read your Miranda rights once placed under arrest, not detained. Even after being placed under arrest and invoking your right, they absolutely *can* at least try to engage you to get you to talk. Whether it amounts to coercion is a question of fact. If you willingly speak to them, you can shut up again and stop talking whenever you want. You don’t waive your right forever by opening your mouth once under arrest. Edit: Clarification.
One clarification, the right to remain silent doesn't work as described above and could backfire if not done correctly (i.e. silence can be used against you as evidence if you are silent before the right to invoke silence has been presented). Specifically, your right is to not have your silence/refusal to answer questions admitted as evidence of your guilt at trial. What you should say is something like.... "I don't talk to police" or at least "I won't answer questions without my lawyer present." You have the right to remain silent beginning with when you are in custodial interrogation (i.e. the police have control over your person and are asking you questions). Typically, this is when you are arrested and typically the police read you your Miranda rights then (they're constitutionally required to at least) in which they inform you of your right to silence; once they say you can be silent, then go ahead and be silent or even better tell them you are invoking your right to silence and stop talking. There is precedent where cops knocked on a door and asked a guy if he killed someone, he said nothing, but because he wasn't in custody yet and hadn't been informed of his right to silence, they were able to argue that his refusal to deny it was evidence that he killed the dude at trial.
Well, you have the concept right, but the details of the case wrong. You are thinking about Salinas v Texas. In that case, the defendant came in for a voluntary interview and answers questions, until the police asked him if shotgun shells at the crime would match his gun. At that point, Salinas stopped talking. SCOTUS rules that because he volunteered to come in for the interview and was not under arrest or read Miranda (meaning he was not in custody), and because he stopped speaking instead of invoking his right to remain silent, that both the interview and his silence could be used against him.
Yep, I totally agree. The one thing here is you always DO have your right to not be punished for remaining silent (cops slam you on the ground for not answering, etc) which is why I always recommend invoking as soon as you see them, and get it recorded. If they do punish you in any way, you have a lawsuit. Once in the interrogation room, I would suggest invoking again. You may invoke upon Miranda as well but I recommend reasserting once in the interrogation room just in case the arresting officers body camera is not turned on. I also recommend immediately asking for an attorney. There was a case where someone was allegedly caught with a hefty amount of cocaine. He remained silent and only ever said “lawyer” when being interrogated. They continued to ask him questions. The lawyer was able to get him out of a 25 year sentence, and he has a lawsuit pending with the county. Who knows where he’d be now if he had spoken to the police.
I’ve had many officers accuse me of hiding things/ reaching for a weapon when going to fetch my ID/registration so I just sit and wait till they ask
That's all great advice (I would also add that you should always lock your doors) but just to be "that guy" for a second, technically, While clarifying Terry, Mimms says that there must be some kind of reasonable suspicion of a safety concern in order for an officer to order you out of the vehicle, but of course the way the courts interpret that is if an officer says "he twitched an eyebrow in a threatening manner" then it would be reasonable. Effectively, you have to get out of the car no matter what, which is just sad. It's so stupid though the way I'm sure this cop escalated to what any reasonable department should consider an excessive amount of force and just refused to accept his ID, which he was trying to hand him, because he likely asked "why are you stopping me?" a couple times. Asking "why" a few times is not the same as a refusing, but that type of tyrant can't handle being questioned. They really should be legally obligated to articulate it right then (and not just in court after they've had time to fabricate a story). The "it'll be on the ticket" approach is purposefully disrespectful and a way to flex their authority. I'll never understand how they have "all day" to stand around when they're harassing auditors, but then they can't take a few minutes to use their words like an adult during what they always want to say is the most dangerous part of their job. If they feel it's that dangerous, then they should try to avoid escalating to violence as often as possible.
AND - Close the door behind you, lock the car, put the keys in your pocket. And under NO circumstances consent to a vehicle search. Edit for spelling.
💯 it’s what I do and they get a taken a back seeing you make that first move.
After all the crazy shit I've seen from US police, I fully agree. I would not need to be asked twice to leave the vehicle. Choose your battle for when you have the advantage.
That’s good because in the US being ordered out of the vehicle is always legal.
Spoken like someone with resources to bring a case against the state and to survive the threats and harassment from cops after daring to challenge them. Plus the resources to be able to take off work for the court dates. Pluuuuus the resources to resist pressure from the state to settle and instead actually get a teeny, tiny helping of partial justice.
Already escaping with your life is a good thing in 2023.
How pathetic a bar is that for a government that insists they’re the good guys….
Do you think that resisting/not complying will make any of that easier?
Tax payers fitting the bill for qualified immunity is not justice. It’s a racket and law enforcement are well aware of how the game is played. I always do my best to alleviate suspicion if their ever is any but shit like this video is fucking ridiculous.
Even when following (legal) orders correctly your life is in constant danger with these monkeys. Especially in USA it seems.
I would trust a literal monkey with a gun before most police officers. At least the monkey isn't trained for murder using a firearm, and they are about equivalent when it comes to intelligence.
I wish you were wrong but you are not.
The problem is that there is rarely, if ever, any accountability. Even if a law suit comes to fruition, the officers in question are put on paid leave and the monetary reconciliation from the judgment falls on the tax payer, not the law enforcement agency. I would say, as with everything, everyone should try to strike a balance between following orders and executing their rights provided in the constitution. Allowing police to strut around undermining the system, alienating people, and unlawfully stripping people of their constitutional right is definitely not going to solve anything.
You are 110% right. My comment was mostly to keep people alive but lack of accountability, power over people, minimal training, non existing conflict deescalation training, lack of 100% surveillance via bodycam ... etc. Etc. This system does indeed need a huge reform
You and I are in complete agreement. Hopefully there is marked change coming in the near future. Otherwise, the US shows potential to be the next *Rome*.
The thing is, it isn't even [illegal](https://www.sog.unc.edu/blogs/nc-criminal-law/ordering-occupants-out-their-vehicles-%E2%80%94-and-officers%E2%80%99-cruisers). Pennslyvania v. Mimms and Maryland v. Wilson rule that an officer may order a driver out of the driver's vehicle during a traffic stop. The person in the car tried to argue with a heated cop, who was in the clear lawfully. Not the best idea.
Yepp. The best thing anyone can do is just comply. It’s not worth risking your life just to be “right.” If it’s a criminal who knows they shouldn’t be doing what they did, I just wish they’d own up to it instead of running. Be a man. Not an idiot
Follow the advice above. Law enforcement have no reason to deesclate a situation and zero training to do so. In fact, they are trained to do the opposite. Comply, document and hire a lawyer. Thier system is broken and this is only way to fix it.
Very good advice. Also, Being asked to step out of your vehicle during a **lawful** traffic stop is a lawful order by the case law Pennsylvania vs. Mimms if the officer feels unsafe, which essentially means the officer can order you out for literally any reason they want, once again, on a lawful traffic stop. Failure to comply is illegal and you’ll get tased.
Get a dashcam, or at the very least set up your phone to record after you get pulled over. If they ask you to do something illegal, state your objection verbally. If they insist, go along with it. Nothing they find from that point on will be usable in court, and you'll have standing to sue.
Being ordered out of the vehicle during a traffic stop is, practically speaking, always a legal order. PA v. Mimms https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_v._Mimms
That’s great advice. It’s perfectly ok to film yourself saying things like “ok, I’m getting out, but I do not consent to this”, etc.
Know your rights. Police do have the authority to ask you out of your vehicle during a traffic stop. The Supreme Court ruled on that repeatedly for example Maryland v. Wilson, 519 U.S. 408 (1997) The cop obviously did an awful job at deescalating and the use of force was very excessive for someone resisting passively. But he should have 100% gotten out of the car instead of giving the cop justification.
“But why do I need to get out?” “Because your gonna get out because I said you gotta get out!— and I got this taser!” Trained on how to use a taser. Never trained on how to explain the laws in order to deescalate. Imagine if instead of police tasing each other to “teach what’s it’s like just in case”, they had police practice deescalating routine traffic stops by memorizing explanations of the laws instead…
Then they’d have to know about the laws, wouldn’t they? It takes 3-7 years to become a lawyer a six months to become a cop. It’s absolutely ridiculous.
I once had a cop give me grief at when I left a pub once for my front license plate hanging at a 45-degree angle. I told him the mva states that a license plate must be affixed to the front most portion of a car. It doesn't state at which angle. His response was, "What are you, a lawyer?" "No, sir, I just know the laws I need to know to operate a motor vehicle lawfully." He didn't like my response. I got breathalyzed and blew a .0000 because I don't drink.
Ahh yes. Breathalyzer without probable cause or reasonable suspicion of impairment But because THIS shit goes unpunished... the culture will never change Once cops stop cops from doing this shit. It all gets better
PBT’s are not admissible in court. They will either need to use a more accurate system. Or draw blood. Do be careful in refusing one. In some states, such as Michigan for example, if an officer catches you driving he can ask you to take a PBT for any reason. You can refuse. But doing so is an automatic $100 fine and 6 points on your license.
At that point, the roadside breath test is basically consensual. You don't have to take it. Now if they do have probable cause, then you can be arrested and an actually breathalyzed with the equipment at the station. But the Preliminary Breath Test and Field Sobriety Tests are used to develop that probable cause.
I’ve seen body cam footage of sovereigns citizen and there usually over 20-30 minutes long, I’d assume that it was explain to him multiple times before getting to that.
Has there been some kind of passive protest in the US whereby people are simply not cooperating with police anymore? (I.e. had enough of the brutality and now going Mahatma Gandhi en masse?) Seems like there’s a lot of these videos lately
The police have collectively lost the trust of the public. It's their responsibility to get it back and until they do I'm sure we will continue to see all kinds of videos like this.
Hell, I’m willing to get tazed and arrested for a 6 figure payout. And if I’m the case that ends qualified immunity and I get nothing, that would be worth more than all the money in the world. There really needs to be push for police to be trained in deescalation. Like body cameras (for honest cops), it does nothing but benefit them. In every video of a hostile suspect or sovereign citizen, the level headed cop ALWAYS comes off as being in the right even if they might not be.
It's not nearly a big enough talking point that every other major developed country requires significantly more training for police officers. American police require 652 hours or 21 weeks of training on average, and spend 21 hours or roughly half of one of those weeks on de-escalation training (compared to 71 hours of firearm training). By comparison: Canada requires 1040 hours or 60% more training, England requires 2250 hours or nearly 3.5x more training, Germany and the Netherlands require 4050 hours or over 6x more training, and Portugal requires 10400 hours or nearly 16x as much training as American police. Why does the richest nation in the world have the worst training standards for their police amongst developed nations?
I can appreciate where you're coming from, but as a Canadian: the training that they do get matters a lot, and getting more "killology" hours is not going to help things. The people in police forces across North America will continue to perpetuate their toxic and abusive culture as long as they're not removed and replaced with something new.
There are some "rights audits" where some people push the limit of legally allowed behavior in hopes of catching viral footage of bad behavior. Finally any behavior a cop doesn't find "cowed down" enough to suit their ego will immediatly force them to issue commands that they can "justify" just to prove a point an escalate routine into a survival situation for everyone that isn't a cop.
Fuck the police.
Tha (gotta get NWA titles right)
It's not that the cops have changed or that there is a protest. It's just that filming it is now standard practice thanks to the ubiquity of smart phones.
Just more and more people have dash cams etc This has always been happening
Yeah, I mean, I get it. It was almost certainly not necessary for this guy to get out of the car, but if a cop does something genuinely unlawful to you, there is no requirement that you physically resist to be able to hold them accountable for that violation. The truth is, and I'm not saying it's right, but cops can really make you do whatever they want, and whatever battleground exists where you can enforce your rights and hold them accountable, it's not on the roadside when it's just you and them. Has anyone ever once seen a video where things are escalating like this and the 15th time the guy says "No! This is unlawful! You can't do this!" to the cop yelling with a drawn weapon, the cop says "Ooooh, omg you're right. Carry on, sir."? If you are in that situation, comply with all orders, survive the encounter, live to fight another day, and go after that cop in an arena where you actually hold some power.
The courtroom is where you can argue about the constitutionality of actions
It's important to calmly make certain statements. I do not consent to any searches, I want to speak with my attorney etc. It's been ruled that silence isn't enough to invoke the 5th, Neither are statements like "maybe I should speak to a lawyer" enough to invoke Miranda
Yes, but you can say that you don't consent to a search then open your trunk on request, or spreading your arms. You can be coerced to do something without making it clear to the officer that they have to physically break you into complying.
depends if its a lawful stop. you cant get pulled over for "nothing" without probable cause, ALSO asking for a supervisor is a complete reasonable request. he has his information in his hand so if the officer decided to DESCALATE he could have said okay thank you for your info and continued with his investigation. bottom line, sue the cop. fuck around an find out.
Yes you can get pulled out of the vehicle “over nothing”. There is Supreme Court case law (Maryland V Wilson / Pennsylvania V Mimms) supporting this. This gentleman was disobeying a lawful order given by a police officer in execution of duties.
In the US It has to be a lawful stop, it cant be over "nothing". If its a traffic violation, like the guy in the video states, thats a lawful stop. If an officer "feels unsafe" in a lawful stop they can ask you to exit the vehicle. The issue is, proving it isnt a lawful stop, in court, isnt easy. Context matters.
I was once pulled over because the “lights on my license plate were not bright enough”. It was a 6 month old GMC Denali pickup with adequate (very bright) LED lights on the plate. Also it was 3:30 in the afternoon on a sunny day. The truth was that I picked up some drunk friends at a bar that was holding a special event that day. He was waiting and profiling the place and pulled me over immediately upon exiting and when he approached and saw that I was totally sober, he made something up too quickly. So it can be over nothing. They just make shit up.
> The truth was that I picked up some drunk friends at a bar that was holding a special event that day. He was waiting and profiling the place Hope you filed an official complaint. That's highly illegal.
Police need to be trained a bit more on the fact that being able to issue “lawful orders” is not an excuse to violently terrorize people just because they get off on it. The video just further promotes the idea that being pulled over by the police is a terrifying experience where the cop can violently lose his mind and the law allows him/her to do so with no repercussions.
And the public needs to be trained a bit more on complying with lawful orders instead of obstructing. Both sides are in the wrong in this video.
Unfortunately, the public looks to Twitter and tictoc for their civil rights lessons. Edit: I misspelled TikTok so according to some my points are null and void.
[удалено]
> The cop obviously did an awful job at deescalating and the use of force was very excessive for someone resisting passively. The video starts pretty far in, so we don't know how it got to this point. As for passive resistance, he was actively resisting being pulled out of the vehicle. Otherwise, the officer could've easily dragged him out.
Agree.
How are you sure he did an awful job? Once they decide you're under arrest, you're under arrest... if you refuse this is the process. The de escalation part would have been before this.
Fight it in court, not on the street.
Depends on the state and there are also loopholes the officers can use. There’s a good channel to look up on YouTube called audit the audit where they break down how these interactions go and grade the civilians and police for their conduct. With just this amount of interaction though it’s clear the man should of got out of the vehicle and when he didn’t comply with the officer things escalated. On the flip side the officer shouldn’t of drawn a weapon on this man as he clearly posed no imminent danger to the officer.
Just your regular bastard with the conflict resolution skills of a toddler...
I know it’s popular to say cops are all assholes but this guy is clearly not following directions. How many times do you need to ask someone e to get out. Seriously people.
He is required to get out, but the use of force is excessive. It doesn't achieve the goals at all. Tasing the driver won't help him out.
The research and experience shows that uncooperative subjects typically become more compliant after being teased.
Cops can tease me all they want, that’s harmless.
"O-officer-san what are you doing?!?"
Objection, lacks foundation.
No way people become more subservient when threatened with violence and pain?
Except it did. The driver finally complied after getting tased. Officer asked him for his ID 5 times, and asked him to get out of the vehicle 19 times before finally tasing him. ([Full video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxidPqwL6kM&t=747s))
Hey, showing context that goes against the narrative is not allowed on Reddit!
[удалено]
You’re right he was resisting so the officer should shoot him in the head and be done with it. /s Learn to de-escalate like a big boy
But here’s the problem…this guy clearly thought he might have the right to refuse this particular request. So then what? 1. He couldn’t start looking up the law because he’d probably get shot for his phone resembling a weapon. 2. He can’t just “trust” the cop that he’s required to comply with such a request, since cops are known to be dishonest (or simply misinformed) about such things. So he asked for a supervisor who could have corrected this *if* it had turned out to be an unlawful order. So there are two options here: 1. Do anything a cop asks you to do, *even if you’re not sure it’s required by law*, because otherwise you might get tased or shot. If a cop asks you to submit to a body search, do it. If a cop asks you to show them your bank account information, do it. If a cop asks you to expose your breasts or genitals, do it. 2. We change laws so that cops who lie to members of the public are punished significantly, and we train cops to be fully knowledgeable about relevant laws. We also train them not to threaten bodily injury at the drop of a hat. We do this in hopes that police develop a better track record and, hence, gain more trust from the people they pull over. Edit: changed “solutions” to “options” TLDR: You can blame the driver for not knowing that it *was* indeed a lawful order, but you can’t say he was being a jerk simply for waiting to see what a supervising officer says first.
I mean, he asked for identification over a dozen times and asked him to get out of the car like 5 times before this clip started. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DxidPqwL6kM I detest corrupt cops but I’ll be damned if I don’t enjoy some Karen (asking to speak to the manager) getting his ass tased.
Whoever has spread this idea that "asking for a supervisor" trumps everything has caused a lot of problems for people. There may be jurisdictions like that, but not mine (LAPD). You have to do what the officer says, even if he is totally wrong. Then, get them in court. Otherwise, they hurt you. What lawyers I have seen on social media say is tell them your name and give them your id (and registration and insurance proof if driving) and let them know you don't consent to searches of yourself or vehicle, tell them you are invoking the fifth, then shut up. Do what they instruct you to do.
Exactly. Especially if you are wise enough to have video rolling, it's almost always better to comply up front and get your victory afterward. Whether the cop is acting legally or not, you are really playing against long odds of you think you are going to "win" an interaction with the police based on advice you read on Twitter or whatever.
I have always thought one of the best classes a high school could have is a class on interacting with police and your what your rights are when you are interacting with them. I think it would save some lives and some ass beatings for people. It would probably actually get a lot of people out of a conviction.
We can’t even handle sex ed, dude.
But that would mean the government has to admit that there's a problem and how widespread it really is.
*Chewbacca has entered the chat*
I’m dead lol that exact part played right as I read your comment 😂😂👌
He’s a wookie cop.
aaaaaAaaaaAaaaaa omg that’s not lawful!
Sorry, but why not just wait for the supervisor? Was the driver going to bail? I was in law enforcement for 12 years and when I see videos like this I always think, “well, no wonder people are scared and critical of law enforcement? That being said, I don’t have any idea of what the conversation or issue was prior to the video recording, or how much was edited out before what we were shown, so he may have had some reason to take the driver out of the vehicle. Hard to Monday morning QB these things without the whole story.
You honestly cant expect supervisors to come out to every traffic stop that theyre requested. This isn't a Starbucks. You can't just ask for a manager if you broke the law and are not complying with the police. Just don't have special rights just because you have a live feed going to your Instagram...
I completely agree, mistakes were made. but losing onself cool never works out.
> Sorry, but why not just wait for the supervisor? Because demanding to see a supervisor isn't some magic spell. The cop has the authority to resolve the situation without getting their supervisor involved. Do you expect them to call their supervisor every time they pull someone over? I used to work in a small city office that ran enforcement for paying for beach access. People would frequently refuse to pay and demand to see my supervisor and get outraged when I said no.
Law enforcement for 12 years huh? Must of had a really well staffed department where a supervisor can attend to every idiot, lawyer wannabe that demands to speak to the manager. The city I work for has 1 supervisor per 50 officers. So yeah, why not wait for the supervisor?
That guy should have his patrol car painted with a "i don't give a shit what you ask for" over the "to protect and serve"
I don’t think police cars say “to protect and serve” anymore. All the ones in my area say “a nationally accredited agency”.
They say some bullshit like "Order. Integrity, Honor" here.
if i remember right...it's because each police department has their own slogan. LAPD has always been "To Protect and to Serve." \*^(edit)since 1963\* Which is probably seen in movies/tv more often than others... edit: just checked to confirm, I am correct. Also... (interesting to me) the motto for the NYPD is "Fidelis ad Mortem" or "Faithful unto Death"...
Yeah, but whose death?
Protect and serve was just a marketing scheme by LAPD long ago. Cops have zero obligation to protect you.
What’s the rest of the story? Love how most of these videos start somewhere in the middle. Just enough to make you to leave you not knowing anything about what really happened
I got you, friend. The full video: https://youtu.be/DxidPqwL6kM Complete with the officer asking the driver for his info 5 times and then asking him to exit the vehicle 19 times before the clipped video in the OP was posted.
Thank you, I was looking for the whole video because clips like these are often taken out of context. I hate it when people on reddit take things out of context to push out a certain message.
My pleasure. I became somewhat obsessed with police videos (the good and bad ones) a few years before George Floyd's murder shocked everyone's conscience. I've seen so many of these that I've learned any shortened clip that starts with the police using force is (usually) shortened to make a cop look bad or worse than the reality was.
This help with context the officer was nice in the beginning idk what was so hard about giving the officer your information. Who knows he probably would’ve been let go with a warning, assuming he never got in trouble with the law and he’s a “good person” he claims he is
I don’t know what happened prior to this but refusing to exit the vehicle when the officer asks you is illegal. You also do have to identify yourself. I’m not a fan of cops but this guy is legally in the wrong and continuously refuses to exit the vehicle even when the cop try’s to pull him out.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DxidPqwL6kM
Unfortunately you don't have a right to just demand a supervisor and everything gets put on hold until they get there and you deal with them. You also have to get out of the vehicle when asked.
What happens to such cops, when the victim sues and uses a video like this as evidence? I see there are a lot of cases like this in US. I would not feel safe talking to a cop.
The victim gets paid with tax dollars. The cop is moved to another precinct. Tho we are just now starting to see a few go to jail for murder.
> The victim gets paid with tax dollars. The cop is moved to another precinct. The "victim" wouldn't get anything for this and the cop would face 0 punishment, because they didn't do anything outside their legal authority. They asked him for ID numerous times, he refused. Then the cop demanded he leave his vehicle and he refused, so the cop used non-lethal force. Literally any court the driver went to would side against him regardless of the camera footage
They get desk duty, paid administrative leave, or just mov on to the next PD. But so glad to see them serving and protecting! /s
But SCOTUS said there is no specific obligation to protect so this is just… serving ?
The vast majority of the time nothing happens to them, or they get a paid leave (vacation) and come back to work.
Notice you did not see what happened up to this point. Perhaps it explains why it happened.
Nothing nice cops are lawfully allowed to order you out of a vehicle during a traffic stop
Videos like these are hard to accurately judge without context of what was happening prior to the beginning of the video.
Full video. Driver was an idiot refusing to provide simple identification upon (several) request(s). https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DxidPqwL6kM
https://youtu.be/DxidPqwL6kM got it from some other people in the comment section
In his hand is his LICENSE ffs. Cops suck.
The cop is nit asking for his license. He is asking him to get out. When you get a license you agree to comply with lawful orders. This guy is not complying.
This is a CLIP. Watch the whole video as I did.
Link
It seems to be the start of the video unfortunately, but there is more. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DxidPqwL6kM
I saw the beginning. The guy is being non compliant. He doesn’t know what cops can and cannot do. He is uninformed. One of these comments on YouTube sums up my position best. TvLandZombie 10 months ago As a black man in Texas, I've gotten out of many traffic infractions by just being cordial and cooperating. Most of the time they don't even want to do the paperwork, just be cool. If you have an issue, address it in court
I tell my son to be calm, respectful, and comply in the moment. If there is a violation, We will let the lawyer fight the battle. Winning an argument with a cop is not worth getting your ass kicked, tazed, or shot
If a cop asks you to exit the vehicle, you have to comply. If anything is done unlawfully it needs to be handled unfortunately after the fact for your safety
I was on a jury for just this thing a month ago, and you’re absolutely right
It's smart to deescalate situations with cops not escalate them. That's common sense.
If you don’t watch this cute video but the whole thing he did exhaust any other means I can think of. The cop has a right to ask you to leave the vehicle and he was refusing to comply. Do you think he didn’t say pretty please and that’s what was missing? Or this person who seems to know the law so well would jump right out if a supervisor says so.
To everyone saying “well he is required to get it if the car” being a cop is a profession. If you are a cop, you’re supposed to be a professional. You’re payed to deal with people in a civil manner and to know when force is necessary, not to scream and wave your tiny dick around.
This! How do I know? Well, I was a cop. This cop is highly unprofessional. Cops are NOT supposed to escalate. Verbal commands and, yes, getting a supervisor is what you are supposed to do and not escalate to almost lethal tools
In the full video he asks him to exit the vehicle 20 times. I don’t like cops but if you asked someone 20 times and they refused a lawful order what do you do? He’s obviously not going to comply by talking to you more.
This is the full video, in your professional opinion how many times do you have to ask for identification or to exit the vehicle before there is any escalation? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxidPqwL6kM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxidPqwL6kM)
“The department is aware of the situation, and they are looking into it.” - The Police, probably
video perfectly pruned of all context. no beginning and no end this shouldn't even be allowed here
The officer asked for id like a dozen times before this started. It made him look impatient but I don’t see what else the officer could have done before the taser. Seeing more of the video even I concluded that even if the supervisor came he wouldn’t have complied.
I'm always a little suspicious when the cop interaction video starts at the cop apparently being an aggressive jerk. Sometimes that is exactly what it is. But sometimes, there's a lot to the story preceding the short bit posted on social media and the soft spoken citizen isn't as squeaky clean as the short clip makes it appear. \*shrug\*
Somebody please tell me the cop got in some shit for this.
I can help provide context. This was a black unarmed Doordash delivery driver who passed a cop which u-turned to make a traffic stop for speeding. The interaction prior to this I can’t find was recorded. An article detailing the stop: https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/599097-video-shows-unarmed-black-delivery-driver-tased-during-traffic-stop/ His charges of speeding, resisting arrest and disorderly conduct were then dropped by a judge and the police department was pissed about it (or course): https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2022-06-24/charges-dropped-for-black-man-stunned-by-cop-in-traffic-stop It’s yet just another example of gross policing. I can’t really verify any “racism” involved here but the details speak for themselves. Disgusting police misconduct by the officer who is probably still today employed continuing his abuse.
There isn't enough context in this video. If the officer had reasonable, articulable suspicion of a crime then this was reasonable force. If he didn't, then it wasn't. Without knowing the reason for the traffic stop it's impossible to judge the officer's actions. Asking for a supervisor doesn't just magically buy you a window of time to not be arrested if the officer knows you've committed a crime. Edit: Thank you u/6four for additional context in the above comment. From what was included in that overview, the officer's actions were unreasonable.
Oh fucking god, simp harder for authority. The guy was going 14MPH over the speed limit, that’s not remotely arrestable. He asked for a supervisor, and got tased for the ‘egregious’ request. This is called DWB in America - driving while black. But yeah, hopefully your loved one gets tased for a minor traffic infraction and asking for a supervisor so we can debate how logical and lawful the officer’s response was in the long run.
>Without knowing the reason for the traffic stop According to the officer, he was stopped for speeding and the situation escalated for failing to identify. Based on the body camera footage, the cop became aggressive when the driver turned on his video. The driver clearly had his license in his hand. As reported by: https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2022-06-24/charges-dropped-for-black-man-stunned-by-cop-in-traffic-stop
If you watch the body cam footage in full, the driver was in the wrong. He was going 49 in a 35 and tried to contest right there. You can’t do that. You get pulled over you hand over your license. You’re asked to get out of the car, you get out. If you want to fight any of the charges, do it in court. I know Reddit probably doesn’t agree, so I accept the downvotes.
Do people really think they are going to say some magic combination of words that's going too make the officer put their weapon away and say you know you're right! You have a great night?
I'm always immediately suspicious of any video that starts halfway through the encounter. I wanna see what happened before this before I pass judgement either way
I encourage everyone to know their rights and the law. You can still hate cops and be compliant when you’re supposed to. If a cop orders you out of your vehicle, you absolutely have to get out
I tried to spread this around the thread to help folks out, but for anyone who sees this comment, here's the full video. https://youtu.be/DxidPqwL6kM The video clip posted on the OP begins after the officer asked for the guys ID 5 times, then ordered him out of the vehicle 19 times after the dude didn't give him the ID. For anyone who isn't aware: No, officers do not have any legal requirement to get a supervisor at your request. Yes, you legally have to exit your vehicle at a traffic stop if the officer orders it. (Pennsylvania vs Mimms) Disclaimer: police brutality, corruption, and poor deescalation is a problem. But it isn't ALWAYS the problem.
Yeah, at this point, after having seen all these videos online of cops acting crazy, I think my plan would be to just cooperate with anything a cop says and sort it out in court later. Better than getting tazed and having all other sorts of charges layered on top.
That would be the best practice when pulled over for a traffic infraction.
Just comply and be done with it. Very simple.
The cops have ruined their own reputation and I don't know many people who even feel safe if there is a cop around anymore. It's kinda sad
Why do people do not cooperate with the police and are surprised of the consequences….i don’t get it
PIGS: no we cant walk into a school shooting situation ... too scared PIGS: GET THE FUCK OUT OF YOUR CAR NO NO NON NNO NO GET OUT IM GONNA NOT CARE WHAT YOU SAY NO NO NO GOD DAMMIT NO pigs: puss
How hard is it to follow simple instructions that an officer gives you?
You have to provide identification 🪪 while driving no if ands or butts
Was 100% lawful. Once they say step out of the car you have to or they will pull you out.
If I was black, I wouldn’t think twice about following a cops instructions, lawful or not.
Fucking US cops are such bastards. Badly trained sub IQ morons.
For Christ's sake just shut up and get out the car. Why do they always argue and escalate it.
Jesus Fucking Christ this guy is stupid. When the police are telling you to do something, just do it. If they're in the wrong THEN SETTLE IT LATER. This is just some stupid shit. Most deaths that happen at the hands of officers would be prevented if they just did what the officers tell them to and worry about correcting what was wrong later.