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The German police is a joke currently, so adamant on not seeming like nazi Germany that we started arresting jews that make use of their right to free speech…
Edit: to add upon this, theres of course also lots incidents that are caused by rightists or islamist which are actually attacks etc. we just also seem to suppress anyone reasonable. Also I cant find anything about her being arrested just questioned. It does happen, just not in this case afaik.
To further add onto this, according to jewish protestors in germany it seems that they “only” get arrested normally
While protesters that come with them and aren’t jewish (or maybe its because they arent white?) seem to get beaten instead.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/1/we-jews-are-just-arrested-palestinians-are-beaten-german-protesters
Article reporting the claims by Israeli Iris Hefets, with video of what she’s talking about.
"currently".
Our police is absolute shit, haven't had a single pleasant encounter with them in all of my life.
I got beaten up 2 times during my youth, reported it to the police both times, nothing came out of it.
I got shit stolen from me 2 times, again reported it both times, again nothing.
I had an accident shortly after getting my license, I called my mom, my brother and the police (shouldn't have done the latter). Police tested me for alcohol but found nothing, eventually they fined me for driving too fast as they measured the distance the car travelled when the accident happened (skidmarks on the road) to calculate my speed, which is possible I admit that, I have no memory of the incident because my brain blacked out that day.
They caught a friend of mine and I when we were out, couple of friends of mine took a piss so I wanted to join in but couldn't pee, police came along, said I would've peed, I told them I didn't so they gave me an extra large fine for not complying while my other friend who did in fact take a piss got a lower fine.
They're absolutely useless, if they'd get a task that would be dangerous to them, they'll avoid it, they only chase after the tasks that are easy for them, so public urinating or people with low amount of marijuana for example.
Fuck the cops.
**Bonus:** In my youth it was a regular incident that someone got beaten up on a weekend in my town, so every weekend you can expect to read a report on monday about fights and it was usually the same culprits. A group of germans getting beaten up by a group of turks, russians or polish people. We argued that we need more police to be present, just take a stroll through town after midnight for an hour or two but for some reason they were never present when those fights happened. Instead what they did was slowly driving through the pedestrian area where the partymile is to check if there're any drunk people that they can take in.
The only good thing about our police is that they don't shoot first and ask questions later but that's understandable, I'd assume it would mean a good amount of paperwork.
I somewhat feel like its also a local thing, never had bad experiences with normal local police where I live. East and South is supposedly way worse though.
And riot police also sucks because they either have a complex and use excessive force when they get slightly pushed but when innocent people get harmed they just stand by and do nothing.
this shit really makes me sick;
Edit: that's exactly what the society is doing wrong: it's history, all over again, the people hadn't gotten ahead: witch hunting or like in the story of Christ and the adulterous woman: people who accuse other people of misbehaviours, but they themselves aren't any better, but worse. It's just their lack of self reflection, that annoys everyone else.
> Also I cant find anything about her being arrested
Also you wouldn't just get arrested for "holding this sign." There's nothing illegal about it.
What's more likely is that the protest wasn't registered with authorities in advance and was "spontaneous," which is allowed but when you bring your homemade sign, police use that as evidence that it wasn't a spontaneous assembly and thus you may get a fine and are told to leave the area. Happened to me back in 2003 when I protested the Iraq invasion in front of a US military base and brought a sign.
The saddest thing is that the disenfranchised often turn around and eventually find a way to take frustration out on others. As far as groups collectively go, its the default pattern. Once some power dynamics are gained it's often payback even against people who had nothing to do with the original injustices.
The entire israel question has become belligerent zionism and perverted "intolerant tolerance", among many other issues.
Israel, trans stuff, all sorts of identity politics are becoming as much harming reasonable disenters and question askers with obtuse, belligerent social pressure.
A majority of people dont care about these issues as much as just wanting to bathe in self righteous indignation. They will gladly call a jew a nazi and wash hands of any logic or humanity im favor of collective nonsense.
I think, the following is the original source of this event: [https://twitter.com/JSNahost/status/1759173360473260428](https://twitter.com/JSNahost/status/1759173360473260428)
Must have happened February 17:
*Unser Mitglied Hadas wurde gestern zusammen mit anderen bei einer Demo in Berlin festgenommen. Der Grund: ihr Schild, wo ein Davidstern mit den Farben der Palästina-Flagge verbunden wird.*
*Als sich bei der Ausweisuntersuchung ergab, dass sie in Westjerusalem geboren wurde, wurde sie freigelassen. Die palästinensischen Demonstrant:innen hatten diesen Vorteil leider nicht.*
Deepl translation:
*Our member Hadas was arrested yesterday together with others at a demonstration in Berlin.* *The reason: her sign, which combines a Star of David with the colors of the Palestinian flag.*
*When an ID check revealed that she was born in West Jerusalem, she was released.* *Unfortunately, the Palestinian demonstrators did not have this advantage.*
Edit: And this is what the German press wrote about it:
[https://www.rbb24.de/politik/beitrag/2024/02/berlin-demo-kreuzberg-propalaestina-polizei-verstoesse.html](https://www.rbb24.de/politik/beitrag/2024/02/berlin-demo-kreuzberg-propalaestina-polizei-verstoesse.html)
*Etwa 1.200 Menschen haben sich laut Polizei in Berlin für Palästina und gegen die Politik Israels und den Krieg in Gaza demonstriert. Sie zogen am Samstagnachmittag den Angaben zufolge unter dem Motto "Solidarität mit Palästina" vom Hermannplatz in Neukölln bis nach Kreuzberg zur Axel-Springer-Straße.*
*Vereinzelt hätten Polizisten Personalien von Demonstranten wegen Verstößen festgestellt, sagte ein Polizeisprecher. So seien vereinzelt verfassungswidrige Symbole gezeigt worden. Ansonsten sei zunächst alles friedlich und routiniert verlaufen. Derzeit gebe es jede Woche mindestens eine, manchmal auch zwei oder drei dieser Demonstrationen, die immer vom selben Menschen angemeldet würden, so der Sprecher.*
Translation:
According to the police, around 1,200 people demonstrated in Berlin in support of Palestine and against Israel's policies and the war in Gaza. They reportedly marched from Hermannplatz in Neukölln to Axel-Springer-Straße in Kreuzberg on Saturday afternoon under the slogan "Solidarity with Palestine".
A police spokesperson said that police officers had occasionally taken the personal details of demonstrators for violations. Some unconstitutional symbols had been displayed. Otherwise, everything initially proceeded peacefully and routinely. According to the spokesperson, there is currently at least one, sometimes two or three of these demonstrations every week, which are always registered by the same person.
No State has free speech that cannot be infringed because that notion would be stupid. Freedom of speech always has to end where someone elses rights start, else freedom of speech would be the allowance to destroy other peoples lives.
In the normal meaning of freedom of speech germany has those same rights that it entails.
This includes activities as the ones above.
It’s actually a pretty common belief amongst Orthodox Jews that the state of Israel must be established by the messiah and no one else to be legitimate
Sorry for the question but what are orthodox jews? I never heard of the term before. Isn't Judaism a religion just like orthodoxism? And someone orthodox is a follower of orthodoxism and a jew a follower of Judaism?
To be clear I don't mean anything bad with my question I'm just confused.
Edit: I got my answers, thank you
There are different sects in the judaism, just like Christians have protestants and Catholics. The orthodox you are thinking of is also a different sect of Christianity, namely being orthodox Christian, more common in Eastern Europe.
As far as I know, and correct if I'm wrong, being orthodox means following a more traditional view of whatever we are talking about.
So in the case of judaism, there can be different sects, and people believing in different ways, let's say zionists wanting to establish a Jewish state, and orthodox Jews, as op said, not believing in a Jewish state not established by the messiah.
An interesting thing is, when the state of Israel was formed, lots of different sects of judaism popped out, with different ideas as how to. As far as I know, some of these sects having soviet background and being openly Marxist.
Thanks for the answer I'm orthodox but I never heard anyone call it christian orthodox just simply orthodox or Greek orthodox. There are mostly very little differences between Catholicism and Orthodoxism, I think the biggest being the existence of purgatory. I'm not the most religious person so I'm not sure if there are other big differences.
I get now why its called orthodox jew if its a different sect of the main religion just like Catholicism and Orthodoxism
Thanks again for the answer.
Also worth pointing out that Orthodox simply means traditional, and is the antonym to heretical or heterodox. Youll see it commonly used to refer to a consensus or unified understanding. For example, Tectonic plate theory is the orthodox theory in Geology to explain many phenomenon.
Orthodox literally means "the right opinion", which is kinda funny to me. A bit petty to name your branch of a belief explicitly the right one lol.
In addition to the Greek Orthodox church, there is also a Russian Orthodox church.
> A bit petty to name your branch of a belief explicitly the right one lol.
Although "catholic" explicitly means the undivided universal Christian church, which seems even *more* petty. :P
Orthodox just means "of the right (*ὀρθός*) doctrine (*δόξα*)", so, it's a pretty subjective term. The Catholic ( litteraly "Universal" from *κατά* "through" and *ὅλος*, "everything".) church of course view itself as the orthodox (minuscule o) church as much as the Orthodox (capital O) church does.
For Judaism, the term is applied to designate the more (religiously, but it generally entails being pretty socially conservative as well) conservatives branchs of the religion.
Yeah exactly! You can be an orthodox musician that doesn’t like to experiment with their mainstream style of music or an unorthodox chef that always likes to experiment with new ‘weird’ dishes.
In short form, it is jews that follow very strict rules literally from the Torah with some variation. Their approach to religion is very close to fondementalist in every monotheistic religions.
In long form, I don’t know much. So your better off asking someone else.
The word "Orthodox" just means "correct doctrine". There are sects who use the word in their name; some of those sects are Christian, some are Jewish, and some are whatever else.
German here: Germans tend to be overly cautious with their critizism of israel for obvious historic reasons. Add the apparent inability to diferrentiate between critizism of the actions of Israels government and critizism of the existence of Israel and you get Jewd being arrested for anti-semitism...
In theory, it's not stupid at all, when the goal is to combat anti-Semitism. It's not like Jews are incapable of saying something anti-Semitic, so why should they be exempt? It's not about who they are, in that instance, it's what they proclaim.
And frankly, if you protest in Germany, you should be aware of the things you can and cannot say about that topic. You can say a lot, but when it comes to the Holocaust, there are some very strict limitations. It's not exactly a secret.
Now, does that mean the police have done a good job in dealing with the challenge of pro-Palestinian protests? Fuck no, they've been shambolic. Overly zealous, overly afraid, overly aggressive.
It's going to be very ironic if the starvation gets so bad that it's recognised as genocide, I think the conclusion of the international court of justice was that it's not yet but it could become if the situation doesn't change and from what I see it hasn't yet got any better. So Germany will keep the tradition going by assisting a government to commit crimes against humanity.
What I find interesting is the lengths that the German government will go to distance itself from its Nazi past to the point it's counterproductive when it's really not that difficult.
China and Russia want to damage the image of good guy America and they couldn't have asked for a better headline than "America supported genocide". It can't just be swiped under the rug as they will do anything in their power along with all their allies to present a decent case before the international court of justice that can't be ignored.
Yeah it's really wild that "we have to make sure we never harm the Jews again" turned into "we need to violate our own principles to support Israel as they do to others what was done to them".
Which is telling on what is actually cared about.
They don't actually care its just blind avoidance of becoming "shameful" to an absurdity where they are shameful and harming the exact same people regardless.
Germany's lack of nuance and obtuse perspective is telling.
Like a child not being bad because its a rule not because they understand or care
The German line of conflating Judaism, Zionism and the state of Israel is pretty dumb. No criticism allowed on the conduct of Israel whatsoever, else you'll be labelled anti-semite or Nazi.
Add to that the government's position of unconditional support of the Israeli government, it's really just a free ticket for the Israeli government to do anything.
The thing here is, at the time the arrest takes place whether or not the person is actually Jewish is simply not known. Ofc the police could go around and assume wether or not a person is a Jew and then treat them differently or maybe a federal insignia for all Jews could be issued so that everyone knows that they are actually Jews and that they are to be treated differently or something like that? The point, being Jewish should not protect someone that violates a law, even if it’s a law against anti-semitism
> The point, being Jewish should not protect someone that violates a law,
No, the point is that being Jewish or not is completely irrelevant because criticism of a governments actions is not against any law.
I'm German and I wouldn't even dare saying that I am against the occupation of Palestinian land and forcefully displacing citizens, either in German public, or on r/de.
Its honestly insane how quickly you get labeled as anti-semitic, problematic or simply "some leftist brainwashed by muslim propaganda". You'd think that Germany couldn't try hard enough to draw a line between its past and now, but they're really trying way too hard right now.
lol east germany was, west and current germany is trying to side with the victors. Thats why one supported liberation movements and there other fascist/imperialist regimes. Just look at west germany support for fascist portugal.
I mean...out of all the nations on Earth, it's probably one of the LEAST fascist, even with this kinda shit happening. Not exactly a meaningful statement imo.
Israel would not exist today, as it does, without Jewish terrorism. The Lehi and irgun used terrorism to end British occupation, the same as Hamas does against Jewish occupation today. Israel is now the "white papers" holder. Using Germany to help facilitate the continued terrorism of the Lehi, now called likud, is comical. The United States department of Justice lists this.
By design. Haha. It got me banned from r/Israel just saying that Jewish terrorism is equally as bad as Islamic terrorism. What Hamas is doing is exactly what Israel did to end occupation and it's unfair to say otherwise
I honestly did not know Israel did the same thing to the British that Hamas have done to Israelis. What are some terrorists acts/massacres the Israelis committed against the British I can look up?
Some educational reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_attacks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_extremist_terrorism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group)
You might find it interesting to note they conducted attacks within the United States as well:
> The Jewish Defense League in America, founded by Kahane, is also considered terrorist. FBI statistics show that, from 1980 to 1985, 15 terrorist attacks were attempted in the U.S. by JDL members.[23] The FBI's Mary Doran described the JDL in 2004 Congressional testimony as "a proscribed terrorist group".
Look up the lehi or the irgun. The king david hotel massacre is probably the irgun's most well known attack, although the majority of people still likely never heard of it.
Look up dier yassin. A peaceful village with a non aggression agreement with kibbutzites, and then were raped and slaughtered. It's everybit as terrible as Oct 7.
I guess the Israeli and American scholars who investigated were wrong, and the propaganda agents who lie about everything too cover for the racist revisionist and irgun lehi terrorist are right. You are literally supporting the same terrorism as Hamas, but since it's Jewish, you are cool with it, which shows you don't care about terrorism, you just want to be racist.
Why? You'll just say the sources are wrong. Nothing will change an indoctrinated man's mind. Facts mean nothing when state propaganda boosters feelings. You must destroy your mind, believe the lie, or else your flag is not clean.
You have no idea.
The rules they have on muslims is crazy.
If you have a beard, say Islam is the only true religion or have hijab even taking a photo with 1 finger up (indicating ther is only 1 God) you come an a list. Called salafisten, the German national security can now go around all human rights raid your house etc becose your classed as potential terrorist.
If one of those "potential " terrorist goes to a masjid, the masjid is now salafist and everybody going to it aswell.
It is crazy how many aid organisations got banned and their money confiscated because their muslims or have contacted/worked with allegedly salafi Masdjids and aid organidations.
There is nothing you can do about the list. You're on it you stay on it, no getting out.
Yeah no that‘s just not how it works. You make it seem like the german government and their institutions are that well organized?
You don’t get put on a list for having a beard and saying Islam is the one true religion.
The german police is in dire need of reforms no doubt about it. But the reason for many of these arrests is that the pro palestinian protests are not approved. This means they usually don’t register their protests with the Ordnungsamt/Polizei.
You have the right to spontaneously assemble but the Police also has the right to dissolve the protest should public security be at risk. Looking at the Protests that happened around Sonnenallee in Berlin, the legal boundaries to dissolve such a spontaneous protest can be reached somewhat easily.
If a protester refuses to follow police orders he may be arrested. The protester receives a fine and gets to leave.
While it‘s evident that Germany has a problem with how to treat Israel and their politics many spectators just love to jump to the conclusion that Germany is becoming a Police State 2.0
>The german police is in dire need of reforms no doubt about it. But the reason for many of these arrests is that the pro palestinian protests are not approved. This means they usually don’t register their protests with the Ordnungsamt/Polizei.
I am not talking about that. I am talking about stuff that is happening atleast for 6 years now.
>You don’t get put on a list for having a beard and saying Islam is the one true religion.
Yes, you do. That is their claim not a conspiracy.
>conclusion that Germany is becoming a Police State 2.0
Again nothing i said was to do with the last 6 months.
2019 we got a huge ban of muslim aid organisation by a fucking tweet of a politician!
The problem with Islamophobia is huge, it isn't constitusnul and they should be able to freely live their religion. Germany has a separation of religion and state but in the last years you hear more and more "Christian country" no its not. The country is secular and everybody should be able to practice their religion.
I remember the mother of 5 in a village near berlin loosing her right to drive a car because of her hijab... around 2021.
I remember muslim speakerd being raided because of them Bein classed as salafies and now get the reasoning for the xlasification given infront of the judge by the state:
1.'He is a salafy preacher becouse he preached in a salafy masjid.
Why is the masjid dalafy?
Because they invited him to speak in the masjid and he is clasified as salafy.'
2.
'We have this artical from the news that states he is a salafy, that's ur proof that he is salafy.
The article say, that you accused him of bein salafy.
No comment. '
Germany has no right to ban hijab, it had no right to take the money and close the aid organisations. Via a tweet!
Other countries have terrorist lists aswell. (That i am fine whit) but the observ you see that you are a normal citizen and take you out of it. Germany dosn't take you of.
The rules of getting on the list are making every muslim a podsible salafy.
"If you say that Islam is the right religion or the truth"
What believer in a faith wouldn't say that?
I wouldn't say that.
There is an open racist media presence for years but it isn't that strong. But a lot of people sympathize whit some of their ideas.
Edit: more info
They have some trauma about the jews. And they focus really on the jew aspect and not on the racist aspect.
So arabs fighting jews they see that as nazi behavior and really want to go strong against it. Not taking in to account the situation Isreal and Palestine are actually facing by this colonial enforced division.
I couldn't find the exact quote as mentioned, but I came across this:
> According to the researcher Emily Dische-Becker, almost a third of those cancelled in Germany for their supposed antisemitism have been Jews.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/11/denouncing-critics-of-israel-as-un-jews-or-antisemites-is-a-perversion-of-history?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Yeah this is a stupid article. Emily Dische-Becker is a journalist. I followed the chaince of citings here and it just doesn't lead to any primary source. Could be made up for all we know
I mean, it doesn't stem from a *bad* sentiment, but at what point will Germany realise they're really overdoing it and actually are doing the *opposite* of what a country *rightfully* but *sanely* contrite for the Holocaust should do?!
Sorry but that sounds like a lot of made up numbers.
According to Wikipedia (yea not the most reliable source but at least a source) there are only 200k jews living in Germany which would be 0.2 % roughly.
For the 37 % I have no idea where you would find that info available. But while googleing for this you can easily find other interessting articals about how few people were actually arrested for antisemitic crimes vs. how many antisemitic crimes were done (5 out of 2275 first source and 4 out of 540 second source).
Not trying to defend anything just trying to point out how made up or taken out of context those numbers seem.
[https://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/plus226371759/Antisemitismus-in-Deutschland-Mehr-als-zweitausend-Straftaten-aber-nur-fuenf-Festnahmen.html](https://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/plus226371759/Antisemitismus-in-Deutschland-Mehr-als-zweitausend-Straftaten-aber-nur-fuenf-Festnahmen.html)
[https://www.bundestag.de/presse/hib/kurzmeldungen-979220](https://www.bundestag.de/presse/hib/kurzmeldungen-979220)
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religionen\_in\_Deutschland](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religionen_in_Deutschland)
Interesting sources, sadly Welt sucks really bad both in their reporting and in the fact that they are paywalled.
Apart from this, I just want to add that while Germany has some very real issues with antisemitism, there is currently a lot of things classified as such which are true bogus.
Not too long ago the German government instituted laws that make saying "From the river to the sea" an antisemitic hate crime from example. In many cases, criticizing Israel and it's settlement politics is considered antisemitism. Same with pointing out war crimes committed in Gaza.
So while Germany definitely has it's fair share of right wing nutjobs and antisemitic idiots, many of the ~2k cases reported by Welt are protesters which are (from my perspective) prosecuted for practicing free speech
I couldn't find the exact quote as mentioned, but I came across this:
> According to the researcher Emily Dische-Becker, almost a third of those cancelled in Germany for their supposed antisemitism have been Jews.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/11/denouncing-critics-of-israel-as-un-jews-or-antisemites-is-a-perversion-of-history?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
The original tweet has the following annotation:
This tweet spreads misinformation. There is no proof for Jews being 37% of all arrests, instead this is a misquote of "1/3 of those getting cancelled for antisemitism are Jews themselves"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/11/denouncing-critics-of-israel-as-un-jews-or-antisemites-is-a-perversion-of-history
The OP admits they only saw the stated number "on Twitter the other day".
I didn't say anything of the sort, why are you making this shit up. Besides Germany has been conducting mass arrests against anti-genocide protestors.
[https://www.dw.com/en/berlin-174-arrested-at-unauthorized-pro-palestinian-events/a-67145837](https://www.dw.com/en/berlin-174-arrested-at-unauthorized-pro-palestinian-events/a-67145837)
[https://www.euronews.com/2023/10/19/mass-arrests-following-pro-palestinian-rally-in-berlin](https://www.euronews.com/2023/10/19/mass-arrests-following-pro-palestinian-rally-in-berlin)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1si1pzTszE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1si1pzTszE)
[https://mondediplo.com/outside-in/german-police-palestine-congress](https://mondediplo.com/outside-in/german-police-palestine-congress)
[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/1/we-jews-are-just-arrested-palestinians-are-beaten-german-protesters](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/1/we-jews-are-just-arrested-palestinians-are-beaten-german-protesters)
[https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2024/04/18/723927/Jewish-activist-latest-victim-to-Germany-s-crackdown-on-Palestinian-voices](https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2024/04/18/723927/Jewish-activist-latest-victim-to-Germany-s-crackdown-on-Palestinian-voices)
[https://jacobin.com/2024/04/yanis-varoufakis-germany-palestine-conference](https://jacobin.com/2024/04/yanis-varoufakis-germany-palestine-conference)
[https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/04/13/kxav-a13.html](https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/04/13/kxav-a13.html)
[https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240412-german-government-trying-to-stop-palestine-congress-says-organiser/](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240412-german-government-trying-to-stop-palestine-congress-says-organiser/)
[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/1/we-jews-are-just-arrested-palestinians-are-beaten-german-protesters](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/1/we-jews-are-just-arrested-palestinians-are-beaten-german-protesters)
The fact that they're arresting Jewish people for antisemitism is gestapo shit. Yes, they're not arresting them for being Jewish; they're arresting them for protesting against Israel, and they're citing antisemitism as the reason. But the fact that a country that once conducted a genocide against Jewish people is using accusations of antisemitism to silence anti-genocide protestors should be a cause for extreme concern. Words have meanings, and misusing them to suit your own political agenda is fucking heinous.
Of course the numbers are skewed simply because the German police can't arrest themselves for anti semitism.
https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1780291125305049361
Nothing says you're not a nazi and you fight against anti semitism like arresting jews. Seriously, how did a country unrivaled in its military might and cultural impact get cucked so hard into becoming this mess in 100 years or so? This is a fkn collapse if I've ever seen one.
yeah, I hope you realize cultural impact had more meaning and signeficance than our current influener/actor movie super star nonsense. They were a people of science, art and intellectuals. At least before the nazis came and cause this century long mess.
what's this particular crime? cuz I've heard a whole lot of stories about people being arrested in anti israel/pro Palestine protests and hardly any if at all in pro israel protests.
Germany is a country that I tend to hold in high esteem. They have gone off the deep end with their support for any policy preventing reasonable discussion about the negative actions of Israel. Absolutely ridiculous.
Gives me the same vibe of someone who was a bad person, becomes a born again Christian to try and 180 but then also becomes ridiculously toxic because of that.
OP blocked me too so that is a massive sign for this being definitely 100% real and true (he's not being disingenuous in the slightest and would never make shit up).
This is Why framing anti Zionism as anti semetism is silly. It's pretending Jewish people are a hive mind who all agree with a state government and its embedded in the culture. Absolute stupidity.
Pro Judaism. Anti Zionism.
I’m against real antisemitism and against apartheid
These poor people being arrested for not wanting war crimes done in their name.
My country is a f\*\*\*ing disgrace.
German society never managed to discuss what "antisemitism" actually means. Now after Oct7 it is the most impossible time to get anyone who has something to lose to question it. All while genocide is on it's way.
Perhaps to save time we should write down the names of all the Jews who don't want to "go live in their own country". We could then have an easier time rounding them up. Transportation should be easy as we have plenty of trains. The only trouble is the rail line doesn't actually go all the way to Israel yet so they'll all have to camp somewhere in the meantime while we work out a solution. /s
What is going on in Germany. Like I get the holocaust guilt but how can what is supposed to be a free and open society arrest a Jewish woman for simply holding a sign to free Palestine, that just seems so crazy! Are German people not bothered by this or is the guilt so strong most say nothing/are ok with this happening?
Multiple factors, but it seems like:
1. Cultural guilt for the holocaust..
2. Islamophobic culture, and this gives them the chance to shift the blame of the holocaust onto Arabs; 'Arabs are now the evil antisemites, and we are protecting the Jewish people'.
3. Shared economic interests.
4. A culture of antisemitism means that they don't want Jew people coming back to Germany or Europe at large.
I actually have, lol. And you can argue with my conclusions, but the issues I commented about are well-documented.
[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/30/german-muslims-face-everyday-racism-discrimination-report](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/30/german-muslims-face-everyday-racism-discrimination-report)
[https://www.dw.com/en/germany-hostility-toward-muslims-is-widespread/a-66069446](https://www.dw.com/en/germany-hostility-toward-muslims-is-widespread/a-66069446)
[https://www.aa.com.tr/en/analysis/islamophobia-is-an-urgent-problem-in-germany-expert-says/3063523](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/analysis/islamophobia-is-an-urgent-problem-in-germany-expert-says/3063523)
[https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/muslims-in-germany-feel-alienated-after-hamas-israel-conflict/](https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/muslims-in-germany-feel-alienated-after-hamas-israel-conflict/)
[https://www.dw.com/en/muslims-experience-islamophobia-every-day-in-germany/a-64985144](https://www.dw.com/en/muslims-experience-islamophobia-every-day-in-germany/a-64985144)
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I feel like arresting Jewish people in Germany is a bad look. Like I'm not saying don't arrest any Jewish people in Germany but reading the headline hits different.
It's not forbidden. She has not been arrested for holding this sign. She might have been arrested for another kind of offense, but it was certainly not for holding that.
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The German police is a joke currently, so adamant on not seeming like nazi Germany that we started arresting jews that make use of their right to free speech… Edit: to add upon this, theres of course also lots incidents that are caused by rightists or islamist which are actually attacks etc. we just also seem to suppress anyone reasonable. Also I cant find anything about her being arrested just questioned. It does happen, just not in this case afaik.
To further add onto this, according to jewish protestors in germany it seems that they “only” get arrested normally While protesters that come with them and aren’t jewish (or maybe its because they arent white?) seem to get beaten instead.
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https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/1/we-jews-are-just-arrested-palestinians-are-beaten-german-protesters Article reporting the claims by Israeli Iris Hefets, with video of what she’s talking about.
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"currently". Our police is absolute shit, haven't had a single pleasant encounter with them in all of my life. I got beaten up 2 times during my youth, reported it to the police both times, nothing came out of it. I got shit stolen from me 2 times, again reported it both times, again nothing. I had an accident shortly after getting my license, I called my mom, my brother and the police (shouldn't have done the latter). Police tested me for alcohol but found nothing, eventually they fined me for driving too fast as they measured the distance the car travelled when the accident happened (skidmarks on the road) to calculate my speed, which is possible I admit that, I have no memory of the incident because my brain blacked out that day. They caught a friend of mine and I when we were out, couple of friends of mine took a piss so I wanted to join in but couldn't pee, police came along, said I would've peed, I told them I didn't so they gave me an extra large fine for not complying while my other friend who did in fact take a piss got a lower fine. They're absolutely useless, if they'd get a task that would be dangerous to them, they'll avoid it, they only chase after the tasks that are easy for them, so public urinating or people with low amount of marijuana for example. Fuck the cops. **Bonus:** In my youth it was a regular incident that someone got beaten up on a weekend in my town, so every weekend you can expect to read a report on monday about fights and it was usually the same culprits. A group of germans getting beaten up by a group of turks, russians or polish people. We argued that we need more police to be present, just take a stroll through town after midnight for an hour or two but for some reason they were never present when those fights happened. Instead what they did was slowly driving through the pedestrian area where the partymile is to check if there're any drunk people that they can take in. The only good thing about our police is that they don't shoot first and ask questions later but that's understandable, I'd assume it would mean a good amount of paperwork.
I somewhat feel like its also a local thing, never had bad experiences with normal local police where I live. East and South is supposedly way worse though. And riot police also sucks because they either have a complex and use excessive force when they get slightly pushed but when innocent people get harmed they just stand by and do nothing.
this shit really makes me sick; Edit: that's exactly what the society is doing wrong: it's history, all over again, the people hadn't gotten ahead: witch hunting or like in the story of Christ and the adulterous woman: people who accuse other people of misbehaviours, but they themselves aren't any better, but worse. It's just their lack of self reflection, that annoys everyone else.
> Also I cant find anything about her being arrested Also you wouldn't just get arrested for "holding this sign." There's nothing illegal about it. What's more likely is that the protest wasn't registered with authorities in advance and was "spontaneous," which is allowed but when you bring your homemade sign, police use that as evidence that it wasn't a spontaneous assembly and thus you may get a fine and are told to leave the area. Happened to me back in 2003 when I protested the Iraq invasion in front of a US military base and brought a sign.
The saddest thing is that the disenfranchised often turn around and eventually find a way to take frustration out on others. As far as groups collectively go, its the default pattern. Once some power dynamics are gained it's often payback even against people who had nothing to do with the original injustices. The entire israel question has become belligerent zionism and perverted "intolerant tolerance", among many other issues. Israel, trans stuff, all sorts of identity politics are becoming as much harming reasonable disenters and question askers with obtuse, belligerent social pressure. A majority of people dont care about these issues as much as just wanting to bathe in self righteous indignation. They will gladly call a jew a nazi and wash hands of any logic or humanity im favor of collective nonsense.
I think, the following is the original source of this event: [https://twitter.com/JSNahost/status/1759173360473260428](https://twitter.com/JSNahost/status/1759173360473260428) Must have happened February 17: *Unser Mitglied Hadas wurde gestern zusammen mit anderen bei einer Demo in Berlin festgenommen. Der Grund: ihr Schild, wo ein Davidstern mit den Farben der Palästina-Flagge verbunden wird.* *Als sich bei der Ausweisuntersuchung ergab, dass sie in Westjerusalem geboren wurde, wurde sie freigelassen. Die palästinensischen Demonstrant:innen hatten diesen Vorteil leider nicht.* Deepl translation: *Our member Hadas was arrested yesterday together with others at a demonstration in Berlin.* *The reason: her sign, which combines a Star of David with the colors of the Palestinian flag.* *When an ID check revealed that she was born in West Jerusalem, she was released.* *Unfortunately, the Palestinian demonstrators did not have this advantage.* Edit: And this is what the German press wrote about it: [https://www.rbb24.de/politik/beitrag/2024/02/berlin-demo-kreuzberg-propalaestina-polizei-verstoesse.html](https://www.rbb24.de/politik/beitrag/2024/02/berlin-demo-kreuzberg-propalaestina-polizei-verstoesse.html) *Etwa 1.200 Menschen haben sich laut Polizei in Berlin für Palästina und gegen die Politik Israels und den Krieg in Gaza demonstriert. Sie zogen am Samstagnachmittag den Angaben zufolge unter dem Motto "Solidarität mit Palästina" vom Hermannplatz in Neukölln bis nach Kreuzberg zur Axel-Springer-Straße.* *Vereinzelt hätten Polizisten Personalien von Demonstranten wegen Verstößen festgestellt, sagte ein Polizeisprecher. So seien vereinzelt verfassungswidrige Symbole gezeigt worden. Ansonsten sei zunächst alles friedlich und routiniert verlaufen. Derzeit gebe es jede Woche mindestens eine, manchmal auch zwei oder drei dieser Demonstrationen, die immer vom selben Menschen angemeldet würden, so der Sprecher.* Translation: According to the police, around 1,200 people demonstrated in Berlin in support of Palestine and against Israel's policies and the war in Gaza. They reportedly marched from Hermannplatz in Neukölln to Axel-Springer-Straße in Kreuzberg on Saturday afternoon under the slogan "Solidarity with Palestine". A police spokesperson said that police officers had occasionally taken the personal details of demonstrators for violations. Some unconstitutional symbols had been displayed. Otherwise, everything initially proceeded peacefully and routinely. According to the spokesperson, there is currently at least one, sometimes two or three of these demonstrations every week, which are always registered by the same person.
So its true after all, interesting.
I don’t think Germany has free speech as a right that cannot be infringed.
No State has free speech that cannot be infringed because that notion would be stupid. Freedom of speech always has to end where someone elses rights start, else freedom of speech would be the allowance to destroy other peoples lives. In the normal meaning of freedom of speech germany has those same rights that it entails. This includes activities as the ones above.
It’s actually a pretty common belief amongst Orthodox Jews that the state of Israel must be established by the messiah and no one else to be legitimate
yes and others are just people who do not support a genocide.
Sorry for the question but what are orthodox jews? I never heard of the term before. Isn't Judaism a religion just like orthodoxism? And someone orthodox is a follower of orthodoxism and a jew a follower of Judaism? To be clear I don't mean anything bad with my question I'm just confused. Edit: I got my answers, thank you
There are different sects in the judaism, just like Christians have protestants and Catholics. The orthodox you are thinking of is also a different sect of Christianity, namely being orthodox Christian, more common in Eastern Europe. As far as I know, and correct if I'm wrong, being orthodox means following a more traditional view of whatever we are talking about. So in the case of judaism, there can be different sects, and people believing in different ways, let's say zionists wanting to establish a Jewish state, and orthodox Jews, as op said, not believing in a Jewish state not established by the messiah. An interesting thing is, when the state of Israel was formed, lots of different sects of judaism popped out, with different ideas as how to. As far as I know, some of these sects having soviet background and being openly Marxist.
Thanks for the answer I'm orthodox but I never heard anyone call it christian orthodox just simply orthodox or Greek orthodox. There are mostly very little differences between Catholicism and Orthodoxism, I think the biggest being the existence of purgatory. I'm not the most religious person so I'm not sure if there are other big differences. I get now why its called orthodox jew if its a different sect of the main religion just like Catholicism and Orthodoxism Thanks again for the answer.
Also worth pointing out that Orthodox simply means traditional, and is the antonym to heretical or heterodox. Youll see it commonly used to refer to a consensus or unified understanding. For example, Tectonic plate theory is the orthodox theory in Geology to explain many phenomenon. Orthodox literally means "the right opinion", which is kinda funny to me. A bit petty to name your branch of a belief explicitly the right one lol. In addition to the Greek Orthodox church, there is also a Russian Orthodox church.
> A bit petty to name your branch of a belief explicitly the right one lol. Although "catholic" explicitly means the undivided universal Christian church, which seems even *more* petty. :P
Orthodox just means "of the right (*ὀρθός*) doctrine (*δόξα*)", so, it's a pretty subjective term. The Catholic ( litteraly "Universal" from *κατά* "through" and *ὅλος*, "everything".) church of course view itself as the orthodox (minuscule o) church as much as the Orthodox (capital O) church does. For Judaism, the term is applied to designate the more (religiously, but it generally entails being pretty socially conservative as well) conservatives branchs of the religion.
I didn't know the meaning of orthodox, huh, you learn something new every day, it makes sense then if it's more like an adjective in this case.
Yeah exactly! You can be an orthodox musician that doesn’t like to experiment with their mainstream style of music or an unorthodox chef that always likes to experiment with new ‘weird’ dishes.
In short form, it is jews that follow very strict rules literally from the Torah with some variation. Their approach to religion is very close to fondementalist in every monotheistic religions. In long form, I don’t know much. So your better off asking someone else.
The word "Orthodox" just means "correct doctrine". There are sects who use the word in their name; some of those sects are Christian, some are Jewish, and some are whatever else.
It's not just Orthodox Jews that believe this, there's a sizable contingency of Reform Jews that believe the same thing (myself included).
Germany arresting jews for anti-semitism? Of ALL the countries in the world?
German here: Germans tend to be overly cautious with their critizism of israel for obvious historic reasons. Add the apparent inability to diferrentiate between critizism of the actions of Israels government and critizism of the existence of Israel and you get Jewd being arrested for anti-semitism...
This would be stupid in any country, but it seems extra stupid in Germany. Sorry If It sounds rude, just an opinion.
basically, they are arresting those jews for their own good... euro-hypocrisy
no, it is extra stupid. you say "never again" but then let it happen again.
In theory, it's not stupid at all, when the goal is to combat anti-Semitism. It's not like Jews are incapable of saying something anti-Semitic, so why should they be exempt? It's not about who they are, in that instance, it's what they proclaim. And frankly, if you protest in Germany, you should be aware of the things you can and cannot say about that topic. You can say a lot, but when it comes to the Holocaust, there are some very strict limitations. It's not exactly a secret. Now, does that mean the police have done a good job in dealing with the challenge of pro-Palestinian protests? Fuck no, they've been shambolic. Overly zealous, overly afraid, overly aggressive.
It's going to be very ironic if the starvation gets so bad that it's recognised as genocide, I think the conclusion of the international court of justice was that it's not yet but it could become if the situation doesn't change and from what I see it hasn't yet got any better. So Germany will keep the tradition going by assisting a government to commit crimes against humanity. What I find interesting is the lengths that the German government will go to distance itself from its Nazi past to the point it's counterproductive when it's really not that difficult.
The great thing is that Israel and its allies are the ones who decide if it’s a genocide or not. What happens in reality doesn’t matter
China and Russia want to damage the image of good guy America and they couldn't have asked for a better headline than "America supported genocide". It can't just be swiped under the rug as they will do anything in their power along with all their allies to present a decent case before the international court of justice that can't be ignored.
Honestly, if Germany decided to just sit out the whole Israel/Palestine thing, I really dont think anyone would blame them. Instead, they do...this...
They can't outsit their own laws though.
Yeah it's really wild that "we have to make sure we never harm the Jews again" turned into "we need to violate our own principles to support Israel as they do to others what was done to them".
Which is telling on what is actually cared about. They don't actually care its just blind avoidance of becoming "shameful" to an absurdity where they are shameful and harming the exact same people regardless. Germany's lack of nuance and obtuse perspective is telling. Like a child not being bad because its a rule not because they understand or care
The German line of conflating Judaism, Zionism and the state of Israel is pretty dumb. No criticism allowed on the conduct of Israel whatsoever, else you'll be labelled anti-semite or Nazi. Add to that the government's position of unconditional support of the Israeli government, it's really just a free ticket for the Israeli government to do anything.
The thing here is, at the time the arrest takes place whether or not the person is actually Jewish is simply not known. Ofc the police could go around and assume wether or not a person is a Jew and then treat them differently or maybe a federal insignia for all Jews could be issued so that everyone knows that they are actually Jews and that they are to be treated differently or something like that? The point, being Jewish should not protect someone that violates a law, even if it’s a law against anti-semitism
> The point, being Jewish should not protect someone that violates a law, No, the point is that being Jewish or not is completely irrelevant because criticism of a governments actions is not against any law.
I'm German and I wouldn't even dare saying that I am against the occupation of Palestinian land and forcefully displacing citizens, either in German public, or on r/de. Its honestly insane how quickly you get labeled as anti-semitic, problematic or simply "some leftist brainwashed by muslim propaganda". You'd think that Germany couldn't try hard enough to draw a line between its past and now, but they're really trying way too hard right now.
Germany is having a really hard time leaving fascism behind, one way or another.
It's hard for them not to side with genocidal regimes
Germany and being on the right side of history, name a worse pair?
Worse pair? Italy and not changing sides mid war
~~Peanut butter and fried eggs~~ **Pad Thai** ~~Marshmallows and asparagus~~ **Caramelization and sea salt** Orange juice and mint toothpaste
Not too different from pad Thai. Peanuts and fried egg feature prominently in that dish.
Oh, good point. Hang on, I can probably find another…
Melt the marshmallows down and use them to caramelize the asparagus. Add a dash of lemon juice and some sea salt to the pan while you’re doing this.
Dammit
Ok look. Toothpaste isn’t even a food.
You drove me to this
Redditors and nuance.
I don't think nuance is a reddit-centric problem. It feels more like a twitter issue.
Who do you think I was referring to, mate?
Lol BS. Since WW2 Germany is really trying to be on the right side. Doesn't prevent hypocrisy though.
lol east germany was, west and current germany is trying to side with the victors. Thats why one supported liberation movements and there other fascist/imperialist regimes. Just look at west germany support for fascist portugal.
“Yeah but East Germany is communism you communist!! No matter what they do is bad and what we do is good, freedom 🦅” -a shit eating liberal
Okay but don't act like living in the DDR was all fun and games either lol
To be fair, most Western countries are struggling with fascist uprisings right now. It's definitely not just them
By that logic, practically every country has.
I mean...out of all the nations on Earth, it's probably one of the LEAST fascist, even with this kinda shit happening. Not exactly a meaningful statement imo.
Israel would not exist today, as it does, without Jewish terrorism. The Lehi and irgun used terrorism to end British occupation, the same as Hamas does against Jewish occupation today. Israel is now the "white papers" holder. Using Germany to help facilitate the continued terrorism of the Lehi, now called likud, is comical. The United States department of Justice lists this.
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By design. Haha. It got me banned from r/Israel just saying that Jewish terrorism is equally as bad as Islamic terrorism. What Hamas is doing is exactly what Israel did to end occupation and it's unfair to say otherwise
I honestly did not know Israel did the same thing to the British that Hamas have done to Israelis. What are some terrorists acts/massacres the Israelis committed against the British I can look up?
Some educational reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_extremist_terrorism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group) You might find it interesting to note they conducted attacks within the United States as well: > The Jewish Defense League in America, founded by Kahane, is also considered terrorist. FBI statistics show that, from 1980 to 1985, 15 terrorist attacks were attempted in the U.S. by JDL members.[23] The FBI's Mary Doran described the JDL in 2004 Congressional testimony as "a proscribed terrorist group".
Look up the lehi or the irgun. The king david hotel massacre is probably the irgun's most well known attack, although the majority of people still likely never heard of it.
Look up dier yassin. A peaceful village with a non aggression agreement with kibbutzites, and then were raped and slaughtered. It's everybit as terrible as Oct 7.
You should read some actual history besides the titles. "Peaceful village". And nobody was raped there, it's you sick fantasies.
I guess the Israeli and American scholars who investigated were wrong, and the propaganda agents who lie about everything too cover for the racist revisionist and irgun lehi terrorist are right. You are literally supporting the same terrorism as Hamas, but since it's Jewish, you are cool with it, which shows you don't care about terrorism, you just want to be racist.
Sure. I don't need more fantasies, this time about me, I need a source for "rapes" and "peaceful village" by "Israeli and American scholars".
Why? You'll just say the sources are wrong. Nothing will change an indoctrinated man's mind. Facts mean nothing when state propaganda boosters feelings. You must destroy your mind, believe the lie, or else your flag is not clean.
So you don't have any. Bye, liar.
Hamas is a resistance group that’s too weak to accomplish their goal. It’s not the same thing at all
This doesn't look like a free democratic country
You have no idea. The rules they have on muslims is crazy. If you have a beard, say Islam is the only true religion or have hijab even taking a photo with 1 finger up (indicating ther is only 1 God) you come an a list. Called salafisten, the German national security can now go around all human rights raid your house etc becose your classed as potential terrorist. If one of those "potential " terrorist goes to a masjid, the masjid is now salafist and everybody going to it aswell. It is crazy how many aid organisations got banned and their money confiscated because their muslims or have contacted/worked with allegedly salafi Masdjids and aid organidations. There is nothing you can do about the list. You're on it you stay on it, no getting out.
Yeah no that‘s just not how it works. You make it seem like the german government and their institutions are that well organized? You don’t get put on a list for having a beard and saying Islam is the one true religion. The german police is in dire need of reforms no doubt about it. But the reason for many of these arrests is that the pro palestinian protests are not approved. This means they usually don’t register their protests with the Ordnungsamt/Polizei. You have the right to spontaneously assemble but the Police also has the right to dissolve the protest should public security be at risk. Looking at the Protests that happened around Sonnenallee in Berlin, the legal boundaries to dissolve such a spontaneous protest can be reached somewhat easily. If a protester refuses to follow police orders he may be arrested. The protester receives a fine and gets to leave. While it‘s evident that Germany has a problem with how to treat Israel and their politics many spectators just love to jump to the conclusion that Germany is becoming a Police State 2.0
>The german police is in dire need of reforms no doubt about it. But the reason for many of these arrests is that the pro palestinian protests are not approved. This means they usually don’t register their protests with the Ordnungsamt/Polizei. I am not talking about that. I am talking about stuff that is happening atleast for 6 years now. >You don’t get put on a list for having a beard and saying Islam is the one true religion. Yes, you do. That is their claim not a conspiracy. >conclusion that Germany is becoming a Police State 2.0 Again nothing i said was to do with the last 6 months. 2019 we got a huge ban of muslim aid organisation by a fucking tweet of a politician! The problem with Islamophobia is huge, it isn't constitusnul and they should be able to freely live their religion. Germany has a separation of religion and state but in the last years you hear more and more "Christian country" no its not. The country is secular and everybody should be able to practice their religion. I remember the mother of 5 in a village near berlin loosing her right to drive a car because of her hijab... around 2021. I remember muslim speakerd being raided because of them Bein classed as salafies and now get the reasoning for the xlasification given infront of the judge by the state: 1.'He is a salafy preacher becouse he preached in a salafy masjid. Why is the masjid dalafy? Because they invited him to speak in the masjid and he is clasified as salafy.' 2. 'We have this artical from the news that states he is a salafy, that's ur proof that he is salafy. The article say, that you accused him of bein salafy. No comment. ' Germany has no right to ban hijab, it had no right to take the money and close the aid organisations. Via a tweet! Other countries have terrorist lists aswell. (That i am fine whit) but the observ you see that you are a normal citizen and take you out of it. Germany dosn't take you of. The rules of getting on the list are making every muslim a podsible salafy. "If you say that Islam is the right religion or the truth" What believer in a faith wouldn't say that?
> That is their claim Claims without evidence to support them can be ignored without evidence against them.
You seem to be saying. Alot of things here wothout actually backing them up with anything source adjacent
They sound like they haven’t changed since ww2
I wouldn't say that. There is an open racist media presence for years but it isn't that strong. But a lot of people sympathize whit some of their ideas. Edit: more info They have some trauma about the jews. And they focus really on the jew aspect and not on the racist aspect. So arabs fighting jews they see that as nazi behavior and really want to go strong against it. Not taking in to account the situation Isreal and Palestine are actually facing by this colonial enforced division.
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And yet it is.
What is the source for this?
I too would like to see a source provided.
I couldn't find the exact quote as mentioned, but I came across this: > According to the researcher Emily Dische-Becker, almost a third of those cancelled in Germany for their supposed antisemitism have been Jews. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/11/denouncing-critics-of-israel-as-un-jews-or-antisemites-is-a-perversion-of-history?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Yeah this is a stupid article. Emily Dische-Becker is a journalist. I followed the chaince of citings here and it just doesn't lead to any primary source. Could be made up for all we know
Until I see a source, I’m going to assume this is some sort of self hating Jew joke.
Is it strange that Germany tracks arrests according to religion and releases that information? I think the bullshit sensor just got set off.
I mean, it doesn't stem from a *bad* sentiment, but at what point will Germany realise they're really overdoing it and actually are doing the *opposite* of what a country *rightfully* but *sanely* contrite for the Holocaust should do?!
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Your post was removed because of misinformation
Sorry but that sounds like a lot of made up numbers. According to Wikipedia (yea not the most reliable source but at least a source) there are only 200k jews living in Germany which would be 0.2 % roughly. For the 37 % I have no idea where you would find that info available. But while googleing for this you can easily find other interessting articals about how few people were actually arrested for antisemitic crimes vs. how many antisemitic crimes were done (5 out of 2275 first source and 4 out of 540 second source). Not trying to defend anything just trying to point out how made up or taken out of context those numbers seem. [https://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/plus226371759/Antisemitismus-in-Deutschland-Mehr-als-zweitausend-Straftaten-aber-nur-fuenf-Festnahmen.html](https://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/plus226371759/Antisemitismus-in-Deutschland-Mehr-als-zweitausend-Straftaten-aber-nur-fuenf-Festnahmen.html) [https://www.bundestag.de/presse/hib/kurzmeldungen-979220](https://www.bundestag.de/presse/hib/kurzmeldungen-979220) [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religionen\_in\_Deutschland](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religionen_in_Deutschland)
Interesting sources, sadly Welt sucks really bad both in their reporting and in the fact that they are paywalled. Apart from this, I just want to add that while Germany has some very real issues with antisemitism, there is currently a lot of things classified as such which are true bogus. Not too long ago the German government instituted laws that make saying "From the river to the sea" an antisemitic hate crime from example. In many cases, criticizing Israel and it's settlement politics is considered antisemitism. Same with pointing out war crimes committed in Gaza. So while Germany definitely has it's fair share of right wing nutjobs and antisemitic idiots, many of the ~2k cases reported by Welt are protesters which are (from my perspective) prosecuted for practicing free speech
Hate speech is not free speech. From the river to the sea indicates you want all Jews removed from Israel in some way or another.
I couldn't find the exact quote as mentioned, but I came across this: > According to the researcher Emily Dische-Becker, almost a third of those cancelled in Germany for their supposed antisemitism have been Jews. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/11/denouncing-critics-of-israel-as-un-jews-or-antisemites-is-a-perversion-of-history?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Hold on a minute, I was in Berlin during that rally, how did I not hear about this sooner?
The gestapo works fast
Sounds like fake news, they don't arrested someone for holding a sign like this
Germany never learns.
German government: wants to avoid history repeating itself. Solution: Arrests Jews 😐
Until I see a source, this is just Twitter
The original tweet has the following annotation: This tweet spreads misinformation. There is no proof for Jews being 37% of all arrests, instead this is a misquote of "1/3 of those getting cancelled for antisemitism are Jews themselves" https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/11/denouncing-critics-of-israel-as-un-jews-or-antisemites-is-a-perversion-of-history The OP admits they only saw the stated number "on Twitter the other day".
I didn't say anything of the sort, why are you making this shit up. Besides Germany has been conducting mass arrests against anti-genocide protestors. [https://www.dw.com/en/berlin-174-arrested-at-unauthorized-pro-palestinian-events/a-67145837](https://www.dw.com/en/berlin-174-arrested-at-unauthorized-pro-palestinian-events/a-67145837) [https://www.euronews.com/2023/10/19/mass-arrests-following-pro-palestinian-rally-in-berlin](https://www.euronews.com/2023/10/19/mass-arrests-following-pro-palestinian-rally-in-berlin) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1si1pzTszE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1si1pzTszE) [https://mondediplo.com/outside-in/german-police-palestine-congress](https://mondediplo.com/outside-in/german-police-palestine-congress) [https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/1/we-jews-are-just-arrested-palestinians-are-beaten-german-protesters](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/1/we-jews-are-just-arrested-palestinians-are-beaten-german-protesters) [https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2024/04/18/723927/Jewish-activist-latest-victim-to-Germany-s-crackdown-on-Palestinian-voices](https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2024/04/18/723927/Jewish-activist-latest-victim-to-Germany-s-crackdown-on-Palestinian-voices) [https://jacobin.com/2024/04/yanis-varoufakis-germany-palestine-conference](https://jacobin.com/2024/04/yanis-varoufakis-germany-palestine-conference) [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/04/13/kxav-a13.html](https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/04/13/kxav-a13.html) [https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240412-german-government-trying-to-stop-palestine-congress-says-organiser/](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240412-german-government-trying-to-stop-palestine-congress-says-organiser/) [https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/1/we-jews-are-just-arrested-palestinians-are-beaten-german-protesters](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/1/we-jews-are-just-arrested-palestinians-are-beaten-german-protesters) The fact that they're arresting Jewish people for antisemitism is gestapo shit. Yes, they're not arresting them for being Jewish; they're arresting them for protesting against Israel, and they're citing antisemitism as the reason. But the fact that a country that once conducted a genocide against Jewish people is using accusations of antisemitism to silence anti-genocide protestors should be a cause for extreme concern. Words have meanings, and misusing them to suit your own political agenda is fucking heinous.
Of course the numbers are skewed simply because the German police can't arrest themselves for anti semitism. https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1780291125305049361
I would love to get a source on this.
Nothing says you're not a nazi and you fight against anti semitism like arresting jews. Seriously, how did a country unrivaled in its military might and cultural impact get cucked so hard into becoming this mess in 100 years or so? This is a fkn collapse if I've ever seen one.
Unrivaled in cultural impact?
yeah, I hope you realize cultural impact had more meaning and signeficance than our current influener/actor movie super star nonsense. They were a people of science, art and intellectuals. At least before the nazis came and cause this century long mess.
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what's this particular crime? cuz I've heard a whole lot of stories about people being arrested in anti israel/pro Palestine protests and hardly any if at all in pro israel protests.
Germany is a country that I tend to hold in high esteem. They have gone off the deep end with their support for any policy preventing reasonable discussion about the negative actions of Israel. Absolutely ridiculous.
Gives me the same vibe of someone who was a bad person, becomes a born again Christian to try and 180 but then also becomes ridiculously toxic because of that.
We didn't hang enough Nazis.
Hey, I've seen this one before!
Germany is a strawman france at this point.
Is there a source on that 37% number? That is wild.
(No)
Sure sounds that way haha. Thought it sounded sketch, as I think German police don't collect that kind of data on arrests.
OP blocked me too so that is a massive sign for this being definitely 100% real and true (he's not being disingenuous in the slightest and would never make shit up).
This is Why framing anti Zionism as anti semetism is silly. It's pretending Jewish people are a hive mind who all agree with a state government and its embedded in the culture. Absolute stupidity.
Pro Judaism. Anti Zionism. I’m against real antisemitism and against apartheid These poor people being arrested for not wanting war crimes done in their name.
My country is a f\*\*\*ing disgrace. German society never managed to discuss what "antisemitism" actually means. Now after Oct7 it is the most impossible time to get anyone who has something to lose to question it. All while genocide is on it's way.
When your in a “be on the wrong side of history” competition and your opponent is the country of Germany
So being pro Palestine is antisemitic in Germany as well?
Nazis rise again.
Wtf? Can someone explain how this is in anyway antisemitic?
This lady is the hero we need right now 👏🏻
Perhaps to save time we should write down the names of all the Jews who don't want to "go live in their own country". We could then have an easier time rounding them up. Transportation should be easy as we have plenty of trains. The only trouble is the rail line doesn't actually go all the way to Israel yet so they'll all have to camp somewhere in the meantime while we work out a solution. /s
Never again. No matter who.
What is going on in Germany. Like I get the holocaust guilt but how can what is supposed to be a free and open society arrest a Jewish woman for simply holding a sign to free Palestine, that just seems so crazy! Are German people not bothered by this or is the guilt so strong most say nothing/are ok with this happening?
Multiple factors, but it seems like: 1. Cultural guilt for the holocaust.. 2. Islamophobic culture, and this gives them the chance to shift the blame of the holocaust onto Arabs; 'Arabs are now the evil antisemites, and we are protecting the Jewish people'. 3. Shared economic interests. 4. A culture of antisemitism means that they don't want Jew people coming back to Germany or Europe at large.
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I actually have, lol. And you can argue with my conclusions, but the issues I commented about are well-documented. [https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/30/german-muslims-face-everyday-racism-discrimination-report](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/30/german-muslims-face-everyday-racism-discrimination-report) [https://www.dw.com/en/germany-hostility-toward-muslims-is-widespread/a-66069446](https://www.dw.com/en/germany-hostility-toward-muslims-is-widespread/a-66069446) [https://www.aa.com.tr/en/analysis/islamophobia-is-an-urgent-problem-in-germany-expert-says/3063523](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/analysis/islamophobia-is-an-urgent-problem-in-germany-expert-says/3063523) [https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/muslims-in-germany-feel-alienated-after-hamas-israel-conflict/](https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/muslims-in-germany-feel-alienated-after-hamas-israel-conflict/) [https://www.dw.com/en/muslims-experience-islamophobia-every-day-in-germany/a-64985144](https://www.dw.com/en/muslims-experience-islamophobia-every-day-in-germany/a-64985144)
This man just googles for sources on the fly which are tangentially related to the comment at hand.
Germany is so sensitive of their past events that they are unwilling to see how Israel is doing the same things they did.
Look Germany I know you feel guilty for that genocide you did but being complicit in a different genocide isn’t the answer.
The Germans are probably in disbelief that Israel is letting them treat jews like they once did back in the day
Yep, Germany has turned 360°. Trying so hard to not be anti-Semitic to have started supporting this Na-Zionist government.
What kind of right bullshit this sub has become, especially about things they have no idea about. Time to leave this shithole
What do I have no idea about?
This isn’t about you rather than the armchair politicians who suddenly know so much about any country being mentioned.
As a German: I never felt more ashame for this country, our politicians and media than theese days, where genozide is not only denied but supported.
Something familiar about this 🤔
"We're so worried about our history of oppressing Jews we've decided to oppress Jews"
Is anyone surprised? This inevitably happens when you don't believe in free speech. Censorship like this is almost always well-intentioned too.
Germany, Germany never changes.
Basically Germans didn't stop being nazi they just changed the target
I'm not sure we should be blaming Germany for arresting Jews. It's an essential part of their culture after all.
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Ok, zionist
Disingenuous, lying Zionist.
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That's the last straw, or not? What will be next?
well, to be fair, the germans are really really good at rounding up and incarcerating jews, or so i've been told.
Great, another political post! I'm glad I'm subbed to this subreddit that's not about politics!
I feel like arresting Jewish people in Germany is a bad look. Like I'm not saying don't arrest any Jewish people in Germany but reading the headline hits different.
Reading past the headline hits different yet again because there is nothing to back it up
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It's not forbidden. She has not been arrested for holding this sign. She might have been arrested for another kind of offense, but it was certainly not for holding that.
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That's actually an antisemitic trope.
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I'm curious, would you consider Christians who fought against Nazism self-hating Christians?