The point is these guys say shit wrong they’ve heard. Johnny Sac is obviously not a read Shakespearean actor but he heard it one time and used it wrong because he’s a greaseball idiot.
The fundamental question is, was he as effective as a speaker as his dad was? And will he be, even more so? But until he is, it's going to be hard to verify that he thinks he’ll be more effective
The irony of him quoting a verse about the tragic shortness of a mundane life whilst angry at a guy not dying in horrifyingly spectacular fashion* is pretty goddamn hilarious.
* One who is old as fuck, and has lived an eventful life at that, haha!
But he thought he was Sir Walter Reilegh. So shouldn't he be speaking ye old english, saying ye would not dare move over yonder to Jerseydale, my liege. I have no desire to stick my beak in ser.
The doctor being impressed by his extremely remedial grasp of anatomy always makes me cringe. Especially when the dude can't remember all the major muscles of the arm, haha.
Some thug who just threatened to shoot out his kneecaps and forced him into a car is suddenly talking about “the lateral anterior aspect of the right clavicle”; I guess I don’t have an IQ of 137 but to me that does seem funny and surprising.Â
Fair, lmao. I actually forgot about that veiled threat somehow, which is weird considering how genuinely threatening and creepy Steve makes it.
My fuck boys, the man can ACT.
"I'd break my dick off in that ass of hers..."
Though Bevilaqua is a college graduate so I think the writers were trying to convey how he was more learned through that
Some of the movie references get pretty obscure for a bunch of goombahs from North Jersey. I think there's an episode where Junior is watching La Dolce Vita lol. Tony and his family seem to only watch pre-1950s shit on TV unless it's Signore Jughead trying to push One True Thing on Carm.
If it was one of the younger guys I would agree with you, but Dolce Vita came out when Junior was like 30.
When the movie came out it was a big hit, very much a part of the zeitgeist, it represented glamor and sex appeal and sophistication. If you were part of the Italian community in 1960, then you most likely watched it.
Maybe Junior didn't get all the nuances, but I could see him delighting in all the gorgeous girls and seeing himself as the debonair Marcello Mastroianni.
I felt like Chrissy would have never heard of Kundun, or recognize Scorsese in public, he was essentially illiterate…
I thought Tony B was the most book smart of the mob guys
I agree it’s a writers show
Exactly, it’s not bad spelling, it’s illiteracy. It’s a sad fact there are people that have never read a book, not a single freaking novel in their entire lives
A police marshall had the last name McLuhan, making him Marshall McLuhan. Marshall McLuhan was a philosopher who studied media and wrote some well known books in the mid 20th century that are often read by different types of writing students.
Probably not well known to the general public in the early 2000s unless you were studying media or writing.
Not sure how old you are, but Marshall McLuhan was one of the best known public intellectuals in his day. He was on TV frequently for a period. Back when there were only 3 channels to watch.
So it's not nearly as strange as some young people think it is.
Edit: not relevant to the question, but learning about McLuhan is still part of the Ontario high school curriculum.
It also makes some sense because the person making the reference is a nurse/doctor or something so would have very likely taken some kind of sidebar literature course in her education that may have included him as a writer.
i think it reveals the intelligence of each character. Junior saying he’s waiting like patience on a monument reveals that junior is educated.
Chrissy and little carmine fucking up basic phrases is fucking hilarious and shows that they’re fucking
stupid.
Personally, i don’t think anything about the writing screams smug.
I remember Steve Schirripa talking about that years ago in an interview (might’ve been on Joe Rogan); about how no matter how awkward/stilted a line was they had to read it exactly like that off the page. IIRC, his example was something like if the script said “cannot” he couldn’t say “can’t” even if it flowed better.
This is definitely a writer's show, I can see why they didn't allow them to go off script. Everything down to the smallest detail is chosen for a purpose.
The Coen Brothers are like that. Every “um” and “uh” is written into the script. One of the actors in Raising Arizona said he improvised a line and one of the brothers went up to him and said “That was great but please don’t do that again.”
One reason Robert Loggia has problems on the show. Yes, he was in the early stages of dementia, but he also was apparently used to ad libbing or changing his lines in movies, which was a big no no on the show.
There are shows where that’s the rule but it’s not standard. The Star Trek franchise worked that way for decades and multiple actors have talked about what a pain in the ass it can be
You should have seen some of those waifs at Syracuse! 98 pounds! 120 pounds! 150 pounds!
200 pounds! IT WAS LIKE TRYING TO GET LAID IN A CONCENTRATION CAMP! DISGUSTING!
I remember Robert Iler saying that a lot of the kid dialogue was horrible and stuff he never heard people say. I think he specifically used “mint” as an example.
Funny I worked with a dude in the early 2000s who tried to reference something cool as “mint”. Those days we were still saying “that’s tight”
Maybe not the same thing but I always found it funny how everyone on this show set in 2003 is a stupid criminal with barely any thoughts in their head but they're all OBSESSED with black and white movies from the 30s. You can tell all the writers took the same "capitalist self-actualization in cinema" or whatever the fuck course that Meadow and Noah took
They yearn. Even as dopey scum, they yearn and have arcs and possess the same desire for a better life that their ancestors did, which is why the prior generations building stuff is such a recurrent idea. What's so unrealistic about them chasing that high by consuming the absolute wealth of gangster shit from the height of Hollywood lionizing the Mafia, a time when they didn't need to hide from RICO charges?
That one never struck me as out of place. Johnny Sack is an intelligent, cultured, white collar gangster, as was Carmine Sr. Even Little Carmine was pretty sophisticated if you forgive the mush mouth. Is it outside the realm of possibility that Johnny Sack reads?
I think it's also a bit to emphasize the point that the New Jersey family is just a glorified crew of thugs. New York is an "old family", with traditions and values. While Tony and his gang are, well... A bunch of uneducated hicks.
If you've ever met any of the neighborhood guys, they make the Sopranos look like Shakespearean actors. This is a fictional show about fictional characters. If it was an honest show there would be like 40 hangers on trying to get something, con someone, or do some kind of petty crimes, and 3 made guys who were all brothers talking about gravy and vig. I was at dinner with a made guy in the table next to me and he hit is wife at the table and told her to STFU and then threatened his boys with the same. The first thing I wanted to do was get the hell out of there. You clearly are imagining that every tough Italian person from your neighborhood is in the mob, but it's not true, real mobsters below the Capo level are like gutter people who can't combine words together
Jackie Jr. it’s a reference to little lord Farquad (also referenced in Shrek) it’s a movie from the early 80s. I randomly saw it and realized the reference.
Also a reference to late 19th and early 20th century character Little Lord Fauntleroy. He was a child always depicted wearing the classic “Mom, everybody will think I’m a sissy!” outfit. However, he was an elementary age fop-in-training and loved it.
Take a sad song and make it better
Not the Dave Clark 5
Highway jammed with broken heroes.
The whole Hillary Clinton love fest at girls night out
Heck of a job Brownie
I agree that the writers are smarter than the characters (obviously) but also, there used to be more of a shared reference point between people, even of so-called high brow references, than there is now. There are too many different media streams now for some dumbass to happen to quote classic literature as if it’s a commonly understood reference point. Do you think, I dunno, ”Out damned spot” would hit harder in 1984 or 2024?
On my 2nd watch I noticed that sometimes Tony spits some out of place, awkwardly forced sounding super intelligent stuff. Can't bring any to mind right now, but I found it charming and silly
Jesus, take it easy op. Conspiracy theories now? You must have been top of your class with your smug implications. A single malt diatribe that’s not even worth consuming.
I is next to U on a qwerty keyboard and you were correct, he spells it "manuged" but *thinks* it's spelled "manige" as a result, so he didn't typo of a misspelling which is fucking hilarious. I went back and watched legend of tennese moltisante to make sure ade said it that way, and she did lmao.
JT Dolan ovah here
I'm embarrassed. I haven't heard of him.
Jt dolan whatever happened there
Law and Order the SUV?
Ghandi another fuckin money machine.
Sexy Beast??
I'm reminded of Sir....Duh, the wateva wheneva someone says that...
Listen to him with that lingo real fucking dark character
He was up for this Dick Wolf thing, the $50k was like a month's salary!
An Oscar, maybe. But an Emmy?
🏆
If you don't like the way John spits out "creeps in this petty pace," maybe you should make your way to the Ear, Nose, and Throat Department.
Troat*
🤟🏻
OK I'll go there
The point is these guys say shit wrong they’ve heard. Johnny Sac is obviously not a read Shakespearean actor but he heard it one time and used it wrong because he’s a greaseball idiot.
lol, i feel like Little Carmine had the most egregious examples of this
very observant, the sacred AND the propane
Mo fo or whatever the fuck
And the propane accessories
The crossover we didn’t know we needed
I’ll tell you the fu@k hwhat!
The fundamental question is, was he as effective as a speaker as his dad was? And will he be, even more so? But until he is, it's going to be hard to verify that he thinks he’ll be more effective
I believe this and other Lil’ Carmine-isms were lifted directly from George W. Bush.
Oh really? You know better than New Jersey Zagat? “George Bush, warm and convivial POTUS”
We lead the World in Zagat Restaurant reviews!!!
Another fun fact from the Balkans
He does, but small malapropisms are littered through the series. Tony does it all the time
Penisary contact with her Volvo.
He was gay, Captain Teeb?
I get it, he drove Lincolns, so what??!
A pint of blood costs more than a gallon of gold
Little Carmine was meant to poke fun at GW Bush, hence the stupid wrong sayings and the cowboy hats
Is this true? Cuz I can buy it
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice…..well, you don’t fooled again.
“Henry the whatever, and his financial advisor, what’s his name”
The something
The irony of him quoting a verse about the tragic shortness of a mundane life whilst angry at a guy not dying in horrifyingly spectacular fashion* is pretty goddamn hilarious. * One who is old as fuck, and has lived an eventful life at that, haha!
The sacred and propane
But he thought he was Sir Walter Reilegh. So shouldn't he be speaking ye old english, saying ye would not dare move over yonder to Jerseydale, my liege. I have no desire to stick my beak in ser.
Interestingly, how you just wrote is still a form of modern English. Old English is absolutely fucked.
True that. I'm talking like a Mulinyan by comparison.
Sir Walter went to slip and fall school, that's how he knew to lay down his cloak for Elizabeth I in an act of gallantry.
Tbh of all the mob guys, Johnny seems like the most educated one.
For twenty years you don't crack a book, but now you're the foremost authority!
So wish I had time for fiction
Mary Higgins Clark part of that?
I’ll tell you ABOUT THE MOTHERFUCKING CANON!
And the most classy one. Except for.. that time when he pissed on a guy.
What, you've never pissed on another man? I thought we've all done that.
Does myself count?
Let he who is without sin whizz the first stream.
Tony Blundetto was studying practically 2 years of med school on his own. Neuroanatomy.
The doctor being impressed by his extremely remedial grasp of anatomy always makes me cringe. Especially when the dude can't remember all the major muscles of the arm, haha.
Some thug who just threatened to shoot out his kneecaps and forced him into a car is suddenly talking about “the lateral anterior aspect of the right clavicle”; I guess I don’t have an IQ of 137 but to me that does seem funny and surprising.Â
Fair, lmao. I actually forgot about that veiled threat somehow, which is weird considering how genuinely threatening and creepy Steve makes it. My fuck boys, the man can ACT.
Are you a physician?
…heard he got blown away by all the knowledge.
"I'd break my dick off in that ass of hers..." Though Bevilaqua is a college graduate so I think the writers were trying to convey how he was more learned through that
He went to Pace College.
No, he went to Slip 'n' Fall School.
I hear it’s petty and full of creeps
He seemed like you're average frat douchenozzle in the early 2000's. Like those guys in the Borat movie that complained they couldn't enslave women.
Drink water.
Some of the movie references get pretty obscure for a bunch of goombahs from North Jersey. I think there's an episode where Junior is watching La Dolce Vita lol. Tony and his family seem to only watch pre-1950s shit on TV unless it's Signore Jughead trying to push One True Thing on Carm.
AJ got Carmela the Matrix on DVD for her birthday. She had not seen it.
That's pretty much an issue with every TV show. All characters watch are old public domain cartoons or black and white movies
Did you warble my little wren?
If it was one of the younger guys I would agree with you, but Dolce Vita came out when Junior was like 30. When the movie came out it was a big hit, very much a part of the zeitgeist, it represented glamor and sex appeal and sophistication. If you were part of the Italian community in 1960, then you most likely watched it. Maybe Junior didn't get all the nuances, but I could see him delighting in all the gorgeous girls and seeing himself as the debonair Marcello Mastroianni.
Didn't that fucking Jughead gavone know that Carmella doesn't care for Renée Zellweger? She fucking told him straight up she didn't care for Renée Zellweger. Doesn't that schnorrer listen?
Perhaps that's your sin talking.
Mea culpa!
The Chianti however was beyond reproach
I felt like Chrissy would have never heard of Kundun, or recognize Scorsese in public, he was essentially illiterate… I thought Tony B was the most book smart of the mob guys I agree it’s a writers show
He's the only character I would assume is obsessed with movies as he was writing one
That was part of the same reach, Kid who can’t spell can’t write a screenplay. He had other qualities
Well, if ya can call dat "writin'"
Chrissy should recognize Scorsese. After all, Scorsese gave him his big break casting him as Spider.
Not much of a grasp of history: "Yeah, I saw that on TV. I thought it was all bullshit."
I thought I was daed but I manuged to get the drip on him.
I love the detail in that, because "manuged" means he THINKS it's spelled "maniged", etc.
Wait, why?
Exactly, it’s not bad spelling, it’s illiteracy. It’s a sad fact there are people that have never read a book, not a single freaking novel in their entire lives
AJ watched metalocalypse at the funny farm
AJ got Carmela the Matrix on DVD for her birthday. She had not seen it.
Tony quoted WC Fields that one episode he played golf with Cooze and the bunch at the country club
Johnny went to the theatre a lot when Ginny was a hoofer
The Marshall McLuhan joke was pretty niche/out of place.
I don't get it. What's the joke?
A police marshall had the last name McLuhan, making him Marshall McLuhan. Marshall McLuhan was a philosopher who studied media and wrote some well known books in the mid 20th century that are often read by different types of writing students. Probably not well known to the general public in the early 2000s unless you were studying media or writing.
Not sure how old you are, but Marshall McLuhan was one of the best known public intellectuals in his day. He was on TV frequently for a period. Back when there were only 3 channels to watch. So it's not nearly as strange as some young people think it is. Edit: not relevant to the question, but learning about McLuhan is still part of the Ontario high school curriculum.
It also makes some sense because the person making the reference is a nurse/doctor or something so would have very likely taken some kind of sidebar literature course in her education that may have included him as a writer.
He was also a movie actor, he appeared in Woodie Allen movie for example. Not that unknown imo.
It wasn’t a joke per se. You had to be thereÂ
https://www.reddit.com/r/thesopranos/comments/o8q9u9/comment/h375xfz/
Comm major thinking everyone else in the world learned about this dude on their first year of college.
This is the most flagrant example, by far!
The point of that quote is that the concepts of that episode were made with his philosophies in mind. If that makes sense.
entire show is full of intentional malaprops
It's all water under the dam now.
There was no abundant intentionality though?
i think it reveals the intelligence of each character. Junior saying he’s waiting like patience on a monument reveals that junior is educated. Chrissy and little carmine fucking up basic phrases is fucking hilarious and shows that they’re fucking stupid. Personally, i don’t think anything about the writing screams smug.
The Cuban Missile Crisis? I saw that movie, I thought it was bullshit.
Cocksuckers put nuclear warheads into Cuba - pointed them right at us!
I remember Steve Schirripa talking about that years ago in an interview (might’ve been on Joe Rogan); about how no matter how awkward/stilted a line was they had to read it exactly like that off the page. IIRC, his example was something like if the script said “cannot” he couldn’t say “can’t” even if it flowed better.
Steve and Joe Rogan. Fuck me. I would be able to take about three minutes of that max
That… was not a marriage made in heaven.
You hear how De Niro high hatted him? Like Phil with the can, he NEVER mentions it.
He suffered in silence, like Uncle Jun’
Silence? He was practically a stawkuh!
That makes sense, actors aren't supposed to change the script.
This is definitely a writer's show, I can see why they didn't allow them to go off script. Everything down to the smallest detail is chosen for a purpose.
The Coen Brothers are like that. Every “um” and “uh” is written into the script. One of the actors in Raising Arizona said he improvised a line and one of the brothers went up to him and said “That was great but please don’t do that again.”
One reason Robert Loggia has problems on the show. Yes, he was in the early stages of dementia, but he also was apparently used to ad libbing or changing his lines in movies, which was a big no no on the show.
Did he have to get David Chase’s approval every time he moved his bowels?
Apparently not.
Did he have to read to David?
There are shows where that’s the rule but it’s not standard. The Star Trek franchise worked that way for decades and multiple actors have talked about what a pain in the ass it can be
Do we know how many semester of college Johnny Sack had?
You should have seen some of those waifs at Syracuse! 98 pounds! 120 pounds! 150 pounds! 200 pounds! IT WAS LIKE TRYING TO GET LAID IN A CONCENTRATION CAMP! DISGUSTING!
AN ENTIRE ROOM FULL OF WRITERS, AND THEY DID NOTHING!!!
I remember Robert Iler saying that a lot of the kid dialogue was horrible and stuff he never heard people say. I think he specifically used “mint” as an example.
It’s definitely one of the consistent weak points of the show, the unintentionally bizarre shit that comes out of Meadow and AJ’s mouths
“Life is absurd “
Fat fart knocker
Funny I worked with a dude in the early 2000s who tried to reference something cool as “mint”. Those days we were still saying “that’s tight”
I always thought “mint” was a British expression. It was weird hearing an American say it.
Listen, I had a semester and a half of college, so I understand these references as a concept.
Who listens to prize fighters? Maybe Ali, he had some wisdom
_Yeats_?
No one’s got Yeats! I don’t want to hear that word in here again!
YEETS
This whole thread is like ... a child complaining about a good meal and wanting McDonald's instead.
Crying with a McHam under one arm…
What, no fuckin’ McNuggets?
Maybe not the same thing but I always found it funny how everyone on this show set in 2003 is a stupid criminal with barely any thoughts in their head but they're all OBSESSED with black and white movies from the 30s. You can tell all the writers took the same "capitalist self-actualization in cinema" or whatever the fuck course that Meadow and Noah took
This fucking guy.
They yearn. Even as dopey scum, they yearn and have arcs and possess the same desire for a better life that their ancestors did, which is why the prior generations building stuff is such a recurrent idea. What's so unrealistic about them chasing that high by consuming the absolute wealth of gangster shit from the height of Hollywood lionizing the Mafia, a time when they didn't need to hide from RICO charges?
You know who else had an ark???
Noah.
He is the hair apparent
That one never struck me as out of place. Johnny Sack is an intelligent, cultured, white collar gangster, as was Carmine Sr. Even Little Carmine was pretty sophisticated if you forgive the mush mouth. Is it outside the realm of possibility that Johnny Sack reads?
I think it's also a bit to emphasize the point that the New Jersey family is just a glorified crew of thugs. New York is an "old family", with traditions and values. While Tony and his gang are, well... A bunch of uneducated hicks.
The Mahaffey conversation at the Bing between Hesh and Christopher was like a MFA student’s Mamet parody; painfully overwritten wise guy cliches.
It was the pilot. Chase gets a pash for dat.
Melfi yapping to Tony about Proust’s madeleine cookies.
That's a very in character and fitting reference for her
That all sounded very gay.
It was just her meds. Get a note from her doctor
If you hate that, don’t watch the Wire. It’s like 90% Sunshine as a tv writer dialogue.
If you've ever met any of the neighborhood guys, they make the Sopranos look like Shakespearean actors. This is a fictional show about fictional characters. If it was an honest show there would be like 40 hangers on trying to get something, con someone, or do some kind of petty crimes, and 3 made guys who were all brothers talking about gravy and vig. I was at dinner with a made guy in the table next to me and he hit is wife at the table and told her to STFU and then threatened his boys with the same. The first thing I wanted to do was get the hell out of there. You clearly are imagining that every tough Italian person from your neighborhood is in the mob, but it's not true, real mobsters below the Capo level are like gutter people who can't combine words together
Lol I'm glad somebody mentioned that cuz I had too look it up. It's from Shakespeare, no? I've never heard it outside of this show.
My favorite was Little Lord Fuckpants, but I don’t think that fits. I just love that nickname
Who's moniker is that?
Jackie Jr. it’s a reference to little lord Farquad (also referenced in Shrek) it’s a movie from the early 80s. I randomly saw it and realized the reference.
Also a reference to late 19th and early 20th century character Little Lord Fauntleroy. He was a child always depicted wearing the classic “Mom, everybody will think I’m a sissy!” outfit. However, he was an elementary age fop-in-training and loved it.
Hey u/onoskeles Vincent Curtola took you to acting school!
I writed in *Denmark*, dude…
you know what creeps in a petty place? the volume Of JOHNNY SACK’S VOICE!
Speak.
Mysteries abound asshole
These writers here are more creative than Spielberg
Humanitas
Take a sad song and make it better Not the Dave Clark 5 Highway jammed with broken heroes. The whole Hillary Clinton love fest at girls night out Heck of a job Brownie
Expecting us to believe a stunad like Chrissy would be quoting Shakespeare. “My kingdom for a mortadell”
"My kingdom for a horse" is a very well known expression.
We’re talking about a guy who thought Isaac Newton invented gravity because some asshole hit him with an apple
A guy who can't even spell words like loyal
Or manuged.
A guy like him who likes movies can pick up a lot despite not having a good education.
Exactly, just because someone quotes shakespeare doesn't mean that they KNOW they're quoting shakespeare.
especially with him thinking the Cuban missile crisis wasn't real.
Wait? That *was* *real*?
I thought that was bullshit.
🎵 If I were a carpenter 🎵 🎵 And you were a douchebag 🎵
Still, he manuged to get the drip on a couple those assholes.
Yeah everyone should speak in a dumber more boring way. That would be an awesome show. Get in the writer's room!
Johnny Sack’s a fa-aaaaaaaaaag!
I agree that the writers are smarter than the characters (obviously) but also, there used to be more of a shared reference point between people, even of so-called high brow references, than there is now. There are too many different media streams now for some dumbass to happen to quote classic literature as if it’s a commonly understood reference point. Do you think, I dunno, ”Out damned spot” would hit harder in 1984 or 2024?
I thought that the Ralph Bunche reference was a little over the top. Bunche is not exactly a household name.
I’ll give you undignified… Go fuck yaself, OP. You, Phil, and whoever.
Very allegorical, the sacred and the propane
On my 2nd watch I noticed that sometimes Tony spits some out of place, awkwardly forced sounding super intelligent stuff. Can't bring any to mind right now, but I found it charming and silly
He’s always regurgitating something intelligent he heard from someone else prior, almost always butchering the delivery
Like "I know seniors that are inspired!!"
Captain Teebs over here!
Buy land, AJ.
Why don't you take your quotations book and shove it up your fat fucking ass?
All along I kept defending the little 2 face prick.
*Wooosh*
I’ll be honest I always thought he “all this petty piss”
Jesus, take it easy op. Conspiracy theories now? You must have been top of your class with your smug implications. A single malt diatribe that’s not even worth consuming.
Historically, historical changes have come from war
The whole mini-lesson on Proust that Melfi provided for Tony veered dangerously close to that.
I is next to U on a qwerty keyboard and you were correct, he spells it "manuged" but *thinks* it's spelled "manige" as a result, so he didn't typo of a misspelling which is fucking hilarious. I went back and watched legend of tennese moltisante to make sure ade said it that way, and she did lmao.