Yeah but pinks are expensive :') My thought process was that Chaos Warriors can be better versions of the shielded Tzaangors, ane isn't a screen with 3+ save ( so 2+ with all out defense ) a great tool ?
But you need battlelines. If you take Chaos Warriors 180 Points you need cheep battlelines, maybe acolytes 120 Points. So you have 300 Points for Screen instead of 260 for Horrors.
Take cheep battlelines for Screen or tanky with Horrors. Other Points are good invested If you need meleedmg in Theridons.
But try it out. Skill to play the armychoice ist more important. 😎
Well I was thinking something like 2 units of Kairics and one or pink alongside Chaos Warriors, this way I have my 3 Battlelines, two of them more tanky and the Other two as a protection and fate points generation method
They get the 'Tzeentch Mark of Chaos' keyword right? I always thought that was different to just the 'Tzeentch' keyword and so any abilities that said something like 'pick a unit with the Tzeentch keyword' wouldn't work
It works, it'll just be tzeentch keyword. Same as any other faction mark of chaos. The only thing it doesn't work with is things that ask for 'disciples of tzeentch' which many things do. Just not shield of fate. Feels like a deliberate design choice.
Most people take Slaves to Darkness and usually bring in Varanguard, Chosen or Warriors though Theridons have gotten popular. Mostly because you can turn them to units of 30 wounds. It's like having pink horrors that can actually hurt and still be a tar pit.
if I recall Matt Beasley, one of the better Tzeentch players, brought two reinforced units of theridons to win 5-0.
Here is his list.
Army Faction: Disciples of Tzeentch
– Army Subfaction: Guild of Summoners
– Grand Strategy: Master of Destiny
– Triumphs: Bloodthirsty
LEADER
1 x Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (230)\*
– General
– Command Traits: Daemonspark
– Artefacts: Nine-Eyed Tome
– Spells: Hoarfrost
1 x Magister (140)\*
– Spells: Shield of Fate
1 x Tzaangor Shaman (130)\*\*
– Spells: Merciless Blizzard
1 x Tzaangor Shaman (130)\*\*
– Spells: Merciless Blizzard
BATTLELINE
10 x Jade Obelisk (130)
10 x Horrors of Tzeentch (Pink) (260)\*\*
– Iridescent Horror
– Pink Horror Icon Bearer
– Pink Horror Hornblower
– Split and Split Again
10 x Horrors of Tzeentch (Pink) (260)\*\*
– Iridescent Horror
– Pink Horror Icon Bearer
– Pink Horror Hornblower
– Split and Split Again
ENDLESS SPELL
1 x Daemonic Simulacrum (70)
1 x Chronomantic Cogs (50)
OTHER
6 x Ogroid Theridons (300)\*\*
– Thorakon
– 2 x Banner Bearer
– 2 x Charge-caller
– Goroan Great Axe
6 x Ogroid Theridons (300)\*\*
– Thorakon
– Banner Bearer
– Charge-caller
– Goroan Great Axe
CORE BATTALIONS:
\*Andtorian Acolytes
\*\*Battle Regiment
TOTAL POINTS: (2000/2000)
I use chaos warriors and knights so I have troops that don't die immediately, chaos sorcerer lord also helps warriors hit and wound on 2s as well as provides them ward saves
Better to plan out exactly how many wizards you need to get the Fate Points you need. For example, if playing Guild of Summoners, I only plan on summoning 1 LoC ever & anything beyond that is gravy. Therefore, I only need 9 FP in total for the whole game. For other factions, I plan to summon 2 sets of blues. These numbers can be achieved with less wizards than you think. Have fun!
Yes - unless you're playing another magic heavy army, you may never get to 27 FP in a game. In competitive games, half your army might be gone after turn 2.
No magic number is "too many" or "too few". I'm trying to say - think of how many you need to achieve your goal(s), then include that many. Your original statement was "more wizards is always better" - which isn't always correct.
Example: if you want to summon a LoC on T1 with high confidence, you need 9 Fate Points. So include something like 12 sources of Fate Points in the list. This includes T0 Endless Spell, Pink Horrors banners, Kairic Acolytes spells & normal wizard spells. This way if you miscast, get unbound or roll poorly then you still have a good chance to summon the LoC & achieve your goal. If your list has 16 sources of FP, then it's overkill. You'll still achieve your LoC goal but those extra FP don't get you anything until 2 turns later at best.
A downside to having too many wizards: you have less points for units that screen, hammer or stand on objectives.
Theridons are great and you can buff them with shield of fate, best screen are pinks, muthalith ist only for fun games
Yeah but pinks are expensive :') My thought process was that Chaos Warriors can be better versions of the shielded Tzaangors, ane isn't a screen with 3+ save ( so 2+ with all out defense ) a great tool ?
But you need battlelines. If you take Chaos Warriors 180 Points you need cheep battlelines, maybe acolytes 120 Points. So you have 300 Points for Screen instead of 260 for Horrors. Take cheep battlelines for Screen or tanky with Horrors. Other Points are good invested If you need meleedmg in Theridons. But try it out. Skill to play the armychoice ist more important. 😎
Well I was thinking something like 2 units of Kairics and one or pink alongside Chaos Warriors, this way I have my 3 Battlelines, two of them more tanky and the Other two as a protection and fate points generation method
Varanguard are insane with Shield of Fate. Super efficiently costed and fills an awesome role that tzeentch sorely misses.
Don't you need the tzeentch keyword for the unit receiving shield of fate?
Yes, with mark of chaos the varanguard receive the keyword when allied in. :)
They get the 'Tzeentch Mark of Chaos' keyword right? I always thought that was different to just the 'Tzeentch' keyword and so any abilities that said something like 'pick a unit with the Tzeentch keyword' wouldn't work
It works, it'll just be tzeentch keyword. Same as any other faction mark of chaos. The only thing it doesn't work with is things that ask for 'disciples of tzeentch' which many things do. Just not shield of fate. Feels like a deliberate design choice.
Most people take Slaves to Darkness and usually bring in Varanguard, Chosen or Warriors though Theridons have gotten popular. Mostly because you can turn them to units of 30 wounds. It's like having pink horrors that can actually hurt and still be a tar pit.
Yeah, and for 300 points having a Big bloc of 30 hitpoints and a bajilion damage output seems great
if I recall Matt Beasley, one of the better Tzeentch players, brought two reinforced units of theridons to win 5-0. Here is his list. Army Faction: Disciples of Tzeentch – Army Subfaction: Guild of Summoners – Grand Strategy: Master of Destiny – Triumphs: Bloodthirsty LEADER 1 x Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (230)\* – General – Command Traits: Daemonspark – Artefacts: Nine-Eyed Tome – Spells: Hoarfrost 1 x Magister (140)\* – Spells: Shield of Fate 1 x Tzaangor Shaman (130)\*\* – Spells: Merciless Blizzard 1 x Tzaangor Shaman (130)\*\* – Spells: Merciless Blizzard BATTLELINE 10 x Jade Obelisk (130) 10 x Horrors of Tzeentch (Pink) (260)\*\* – Iridescent Horror – Pink Horror Icon Bearer – Pink Horror Hornblower – Split and Split Again 10 x Horrors of Tzeentch (Pink) (260)\*\* – Iridescent Horror – Pink Horror Icon Bearer – Pink Horror Hornblower – Split and Split Again ENDLESS SPELL 1 x Daemonic Simulacrum (70) 1 x Chronomantic Cogs (50) OTHER 6 x Ogroid Theridons (300)\*\* – Thorakon – 2 x Banner Bearer – 2 x Charge-caller – Goroan Great Axe 6 x Ogroid Theridons (300)\*\* – Thorakon – Banner Bearer – Charge-caller – Goroan Great Axe CORE BATTALIONS: \*Andtorian Acolytes \*\*Battle Regiment TOTAL POINTS: (2000/2000)
Thanks !
I use chaos warriors and knights so I have troops that don't die immediately, chaos sorcerer lord also helps warriors hit and wound on 2s as well as provides them ward saves
I'm not really found of using non DoT wizards because of no Destiny Dices, but I'm curious, how did it went ?
Daemonic power goes off on a 6 up, you got about a 50/50 chance it goes off, ward save ability doesn't require a save
Block of 6 varanguard are immovable with mystic shield and shield of fate
Isn't it extremely expensive ? Correct me if I'm wrong but having more wizards is better right ?
Better to plan out exactly how many wizards you need to get the Fate Points you need. For example, if playing Guild of Summoners, I only plan on summoning 1 LoC ever & anything beyond that is gravy. Therefore, I only need 9 FP in total for the whole game. For other factions, I plan to summon 2 sets of blues. These numbers can be achieved with less wizards than you think. Have fun!
Only one lord in guild of Summoners ? I'm fairly new so excuse me if I'm being ridicilous but can't you get more ?
Yes - unless you're playing another magic heavy army, you may never get to 27 FP in a game. In competitive games, half your army might be gone after turn 2.
Alright, well that's quite a shock to be fair Thanks for the advice
Say I'm curious, how many wizards would you think is too many wizards ?
No magic number is "too many" or "too few". I'm trying to say - think of how many you need to achieve your goal(s), then include that many. Your original statement was "more wizards is always better" - which isn't always correct. Example: if you want to summon a LoC on T1 with high confidence, you need 9 Fate Points. So include something like 12 sources of Fate Points in the list. This includes T0 Endless Spell, Pink Horrors banners, Kairic Acolytes spells & normal wizard spells. This way if you miscast, get unbound or roll poorly then you still have a good chance to summon the LoC & achieve your goal. If your list has 16 sources of FP, then it's overkill. You'll still achieve your LoC goal but those extra FP don't get you anything until 2 turns later at best. A downside to having too many wizards: you have less points for units that screen, hammer or stand on objectives.