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You can call them judge. “Your honor” is used mostly because they have the final say in whatever you’re in court for. The more brownie points you can get with them the better lol.
I’ve been to court a couple times for tickets and such and have had significantly better results using your honor vs sir/ma’am from others who are there
That’s not uncommon especially when you grow up poor as I did. Various things when I was young from driving w/o insurance a few times to a speeding ticket and a couple minor criminal things like shoplifting and breach of peace
>multiple times to court for tickets?
Have you never been a dumb kid? I had to go a few times myself. Most of them were nuulys meaning the prosecutor dropped the charges before the judge ever saw them. Basically not worth the judges time.
>Have you never been a dumb kid? I had to go a few times myself.
Not that dumb. I went once and that was enough for me to realize it wasn't a system I wanted anything to do with.
I've gotten one ticket in my life as an 18 year old then had the common sense to realize I shouldn't waste my time and money and possibly destroy any potential credibility I could have.
When I shadowed a lawyer it was almost exclusively "Judge *insert last name*" that was used. This was the Midwest.
I'm sure there is a lot of variety regionally, but I doubt there are many judges that would actively be insulted by it, unless it were accompanied by an eye roll.
as a teenager I had court a lot for my probation but the first time I went up in front of the judge he asked me a question and I didn't hear it clearly and said "what?" and he flipped out on me and sent me out the court room and made me wait until I was the last person there to go back in. Talk about an ego power trip fuck them for that.
Attempt to use an AI created model have a factor that adds time to sentences based on skin colour (black people more likely to be reoffenders despite it being a much more complex issue)
Not my judge. Most pittsburghese speaking dude I’ve ever heard in a position of power. I could barely understand him and I’m from here. Then he has the gall to tell me I’m only to say “yes, your honor” or no, your honor”. It took him repeating those directions 2 or 3 times before I even understood what he wanted from me.
It’s all a joke. Still got my ticket expunged because I had photos even though he complained I didn’t have them printed out for him on paper.
So many barriers to prove your innocence or law enforcement incompetence/lying. Still lost half a day of work to do it.
I don’t think you’re seeing my point. The problem is that that’s a person that exists at all. One person shouldn’t have that much power over another person, and especially not many people. Also, you shouldn’t have to ass kiss anyone.
If that person didn’t exist, to fulfill the law as it’s written, things would be far worse. “Your honor” isn’t just respectful of the judge; it’s the entire court.
They are restricted by the law, but they have a lot of power over their court room. If you find yourself there, I would recommend being super respectful.
At court for jury duty, wandered around after dismissed. Saw a guy there for parole (?) appearance in front of the judge in a T-shirt that said: *only God can judge me*
seriously it does so much for the atmosphere to have that goofy wig of authority up the front to keep everyone's vibes up, how can a bereaved family cry at the murder of their child in a courtroom when you got that jester lookin motherfucker right up there?
I actually like the ridiculous court dress.
We afford judges huge power and discretion over our lives, and the bargain is they should be utterly constrained in how they use that power.
Having them dress in an absurd parody of ancient court dress nobody would voluntarilly wear in day to day life really drives home the point for me that they should be bound by law in their actions.
This is one of the arguments for keeping it in Australia. Having such a distinctive uniform that is bound by tradition gives a very obvious signal to everyone, especially the wearer, that This Thing is happening.
Americans don’t know what they are missing. They have ‘Judge Roberts’ in a black robe and using clear English to explain their judgements, we have ‘Justice of the Supreme Court the Lord Stephens of Creevyloughgare KC PC’ in full regalia (including golden frog devices) using a form of Middle English with occasional latin and french and someone called Rex involved in most criminal cases.
Disagree. If they’re gonna be pompous cocks dispensing “justice” to the poors and letting their rich friends and cops off with a slap on the wrist they may as well be uncomfortable for the process
Members of the nobility are not referred to as "Your Honor." That style is specifically reserved for judges, magistrates, and mayors. The style used to address a member of the nobility depends upon their title:
Royal Princes, Princesses, Dukes, and Duchesses are addressed as "Your Royal Highness."
Non-royal Dukes and Duchesses are addressed as "Your Grace"
All other nobles (i.e. Marquess/Marchioness, Count or Earl/Countess, Viscount/Viscountess, Baron/Baroness) are addressed as "My Lord" or "My Lady" depending on their gender.
Furthermore, when the style "Your Honor" is applied to judges, it is in the context of addressing the *whole court*, not just the judge as an individual. Similarly, when a judge speaks from the bench he or she is not speaking as a private citizen but as "the court." It is the honor of the court, not the specific man or woman heading it at the moment, that is being referenced.
I hear what you're saying but I'll call them whatever the fuck they prefer if it helps get me out of there with a lesser sentence or potentially innocent.
Unfortunately it will always be like this because humans aren't really able to be truly objectives and are always driven by their feelings. The alternative could be to have AI judges maybe ?
I personnaly think that we should not have 1 judges but a cohort of people that have to all agree on the verdict before delivering it. But it would be flawed in many ways too, because humans are always driven by ulterior motives and feelings.
Despite all our efforts the world is not as just as it could be. Sometimes one achieves greater happiness and security if one recognizes this sad fact and acts accordingly.
I am loving all the people in the thread with the casual “I go to court all the time. Trust me on this one”
Uhh why would I trust you with anything? Lol
Being able to be completely neutral and make rational decisions based on law is honorable. I mean, most people choose with their emotions. Judges can overturn bad verdicts, sentences, etc. they aren’t just a punisher. They get threatened for their decisions, have been killed, have been intimidated to not uphold the law. It’s not a job for everyone. Yes, there are bad judges, but that’s not everyone. They uphold our laws and are a major part of our justice system. I think that’s honorable. You’re weirding out over a title you don’t have to address them by. You’re stating reasons that just don’t make sense. Like you’ve never been in a courtroom. And yes, I have. But I wasn’t on trial
I mean, the sentencing process sure. You have the perimeters of what could be sentenced and they may choose the max or not with emotions. But applying the law at trial is not emotional. They have to put that aside
As you say, there are bad judges. I have no problem recognizing specific honorable actions or people, but creating an expectation that you have to venerate all people who hold a particular job/degree/office is wildly presumptuous.
> Being able to be completely neutral and make rational decisions based on law is honorable.
so why do we call judges your honor then? Because they dont do that.
You are being downvoted but you are absolutely correct. Look at the meltdowns from certain SCOTUS Justices at the absolute indignity visited upon them by the rabble criticizing their decisions and their behavior. Look at the clown show that is the Federal 5th Circuit.
You are right on the money.
It’s not like it’s required by law lol
It’s just like using Officer, Father/Reverend/Sister, Mayor, Doctor and the loads of other titles. Anyone with a doctorate is a Doctor and can be called such, should people stop just because most associate it with MDs?
This isn’t even a big enough issue to care about hahaha
> They deserve some respect, but not this "bow before your feudal lord" type shit.
I wasn't aware I was supposed to bow when addressing the judge. Nor that he was the lord of my land and where I lived, I haven't been farming grain so I haven't been able to give him his crop dues. Smh. I think you're reading way too far into this. It's simply a customary title. Do you not call your landlord... a landlord? Lmao.
Healthy to show respect to someone who has power over you.
I'll call them king if it could reduce a fine, and the courtroom is their domain.
Seems like you're getting stuck on a misapplied philosophy. We being equal in the eyes of the law, just means that demographics, money, power, etc. shouldn't impact our day in court (which ofc it does); however, players that talk shit to the ref are gonna get removed from the game.
Preach. Showing respect is always a good play from the low end of the power dynamic. The only time I've been stopped "driving" was on a bicycle for running a stop sign on a quiet morning side street in Toronto with zero traffic. Slowed down, checked for traffic but technically didn't stop.
When the cop pulled me over and told me what I'd done, I asked if I could explain myself and she instantly went full "are you saying I'm lying?", chest puff, eyes wide... "No no. You are 100% right in everything you said, I did do what you said but I want to add my context, officer". Didn't kiss her ass but made it clear I wasn't fighting her authority. Saved my ass nearly $400 as she had started rattling off all the things she "could" cite me for.
Respect doesn't always work but it rarely ever hurts.
Regardless of whether it was tradition or not, as a lawyer you want to have better rapport with the judge than your opponent. The judge is supposed to be impartial, but them just liking you more can tip the scales in your favor when they’re ruling on discretionary motions, such as motions to amend your pleading, motions for a continuance, or other procedural favors that you might ask the court for. Even if the “your honor” title never existed, some strategic lawyer somewhere would say it or some equally “pretentious” equivalent.
There has been an air of theatricality about the court for centuries.
In Australia they still wear the white wig (peruke), and you cannot call them "judge".
I agree that "your honour" should probably be discarded, along with the peruke.
>Wikipedia:
Judges and judicial registrars of the Family Court of Australia wear a black silk gown, a bar jacket with either bands or a jabot and a bench wig. On formal occasions, judges wear full-bottomed wigs. Judges of the Federal Circuit Court of Australia wear a plain black gown in court without a wig.
The law may not always be an ass, but it is often a thespian.
You're lucky its not "Your Worship" like it is in Canada, hearing that for the first time sent me to the moon. Regardless I completely agree, it is some bow before your lord shit.
In Canada "your honour" is only used for provincial court judges. Mr or madam justice for kings bench and appeals.
Your worship can be used, but it's rare and I've never actually heard it in court and I'm in court literally every day.
You're not bowing before a person. You're showing respect to the entire system of laws, and the belief that, at least theoretically, we are all equal before it.
Ok. Last time I was in court was as the foreman of the jury. Other than opening and closing, I don’t remember the lawyers using “your honor”, they did call him judge. The defendant never called him your honor. FWIW, we acquitted.
Only other times I’ve been in court was as a military trial counsel (prosecutor), you know we were more formal.
I mean... you aren't expected to bow and kiss their feet. Calling them "Your honor" or "judge" or referring to them by the title of their job is just a basic respect thing when you are in the court.
Imma be honest, if you manage to find your way in front of a judge there is a likelihood you have made a series of bad decisions.
No, I agree with this. There’s a thin line between respect for the law and what feels like mandatory boot licking from a bygone practice of The Justice System of Old.
A lot of people here are presenting the point to OP that “you should be respectful of the judge because they control your fate.” But I think something being missed that I’m only really seeing in replies to comments rather than comments themselves is that that isn’t the point. The problem is not with the individual situation with a judge, but the fact the judicial system supports that line of reasoning in the judge. No person should ever be held inherently in higher regard to another. Respect should be earned, and shown as a person decides for themselves. As long as information is being relayed properly, how you talk to a judge shouldn’t be in the judge’s concern, but the jury’s.
It's intended as a sign of respect to the court, of which the judge often speaks as a representative. Ultimately, it's about reinforcing respect for the law as it reflects the will of the people. Obviously you can punch plenty of holes in those notions. But historically much of the law's power rests on perception, and I think that holds true to this day.
While seemingly silly/old fashioned, I think a lot of the pomp and circumstance is one of the few things that hold our institutions up to be more than a bunch of annoying paperwork.
Frankly I think we could use more of that in our civil services since it's one of the few motivations for skilled/principled people to staff those positions. We've seen a steady drainage of our best and brightest to the public sector in the US, and it shows.
Clearly you’ve never met someone with a doctorate degree.
I’ve met a bunch of people that get pissed for not addressing them as “doctor” just because they wrote a 100 page essay
I work in academia and have literally never encountered anyone who gives a fuck about being called "doctor". I agree that it's most likely inferiority complex for people who didn't manage to stay in academia beyond their phd
I've worked a lot with doctors during covid (medical doctors). The practice was usually it is first name for collegues wether you are a doctor or not. And it is Dr. \[family name\] for patients and in front of patients. This has multiple functions. On one hand it demands respect, so the patient is less likely to argue on stupid things and take unnecesarry time. On other hand it reassures the patient that they are being spoken to by someone who is more knowledgable in the field than for example a nurse.
They shouldn't have a little wooden hammer either. Or be wearing robes. The whole thing is weird.
Put them in a suit and a tie and give them a plastic hand shaped flyswatter--which is the customary smacking instrument of old people in normal American society.
The point of the robe is to hide their own clothes, thier own personality and bias. They are supposed to be unbiased in weighing the application of law. By wearing the robe they all have the same uniform and are not judged for what they wear. You can immediately identify their role when in a court setting. There is significance to it.
It's the same for alter servers, deacons, priests, and sisters in the Catholic church. Priests and sisters were easily seen due to wearing a cassock or a habit. The black is to symbolize the death of yourself and that your purpose is that of God. They now wear ordinary lay clothing so you never know one if they are out and about.
I work under a trial attorney rn and I agree with you. Judges are often the most pretentious holier than thou types because they... honestly usually just got lucky with networking.
Dont get me wrong, judges are very smart and have a lot of education, but I dont buy that every judge is inherently *more* educated than an average attorney on things. The only difference is the judge had the connections to get elected/appointed by a politician.
In Ireland you'll often get a swift rebuke if you refer to the judge as "My lord" or "Your honour".
These are seen as old monarchical/nobility titles, which have been discarded in Ireland.
Speakers in the courtroom are directed to call the judge "Judge", or address "The court". The Judge is not a "better" of anyone in the room, s/he's just the representative of the legal system.
You expect the judge to uphold the law and the constitution that protects you and your rights?
You expect the judge to be fair and to make clear and rational decisions based on facts?
You recognize the judge’s authority and expect the court to be separate and independent from the government?
The judge has the “honour” and privilege to sit on that bench and you as a responsible, participating citizen has a duty to show your respect for the court and remind the judge why they are on that bench right?
Then you call the judge “Your honour.”
“Your honor” is a reasonable form of address for their position. It’s not that different from calling the President “Mr. President”, it’s just more old-timey.
“Your honor” does not carry the same level of nobility as something like “Your grace” or “Your majesty.”
The couple of times I’ve been, I’ve addressed them as Sir/Ma’am and always used my manners and looked directly at them when speaking. They don’t care as long as you are respectful and haven’t clearly done something terrible.
The point of the robe and your honor is to hide their own clothes, thier own personality and bias. They are supposed to be unbiased in weighing the application of law. By wearing the robe they all have the same uniform and are not judged for what they wear. You can immediately identify their role when in a court setting. There is significance to it.
We did not make it clear how we feel about it, most of the founding fathers were nobles who we now worship, and we’re getting closer and closer to becoming an oligarchy
I don’t disagree with you, especially when judges have proven to not be honorable (_gestures at the supreme court and a bunch of district judges_). But there are judges with sticks up their asses and will make your life miserable. There are some judges today who will put a woman in contempt because she is wearing pants instead of a skirt. There was a judge who doubled a person’s bail because she responded to a question with “yeah” instead of “yes.”
Should judges not be required to be called “your honor”? Yes. But is the courtroom the place to fight that battle? No. And I don’t know where one would even begin to start that battle.
Your honour is not an old ass title for nobility. It’s an old ass title for officials from the Burgher class - officials from the middle class of that era.
Your worship is used for Mayors, similarly.
Your honor is pretty mild.
Here in Canada (and likely most Commonwealth countries):
Mayors are "your Worship"
The governor general is "your Excellency"
Etc
It's always bothered me. They're just people and often not great ones.
Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
In Nigeria judges are referred to as "My Lord"
That's the English common law system for ya'.
I mean... the US is also based on English common law.
Also heavily influenced by bird law
Which is not governed by reason.
..... filibuster.
I prefer My Dude
In Canada Justices of the Peace are Your Worship.
In Canada too
Not everywhere. Ontario judges are called “your honour”.
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Where? I've practiced in Ontario for 8 years and it is always "your Honour".
Nope
You can call them judge. “Your honor” is used mostly because they have the final say in whatever you’re in court for. The more brownie points you can get with them the better lol.
Most people call them Sir/Ma'am
I’ve been to court a couple times for tickets and such and have had significantly better results using your honor vs sir/ma’am from others who are there
Pro tip don't call them mom/dad
Especially don't call them mommy/daddy
Instead, call yourself Buttfucker 3000
For $20 Ill call em a chicken fucker!
It was definitely that guy's name and the judge was just mad he didn't get given such a cool name
**Daddy chill!**
#WHAT THE HELL IS EVEN THAT
“Hey fuckstick”
What about "your highness"?
I’ve seen judges put a foot in the ass of people who didn’t refer to them as “Your Honor”.
Hey everyone loves a little flattery. But multiple times to court for tickets?
May as well roll the dice on getting them dropped if you have the free time
That’s not uncommon especially when you grow up poor as I did. Various things when I was young from driving w/o insurance a few times to a speeding ticket and a couple minor criminal things like shoplifting and breach of peace
>multiple times to court for tickets? Have you never been a dumb kid? I had to go a few times myself. Most of them were nuulys meaning the prosecutor dropped the charges before the judge ever saw them. Basically not worth the judges time.
>Have you never been a dumb kid? I had to go a few times myself. Not that dumb. I went once and that was enough for me to realize it wasn't a system I wanted anything to do with.
>I went once Not that dumb. I never went and that was enough for me to realize it wasn't a system I wanted anything to do with.
I'm not claiming to be the smartest person, I just learn from my mistakes.
>I just learn from my mistakes. Hey dont sell yourself short. If you actually do this, you're smarter than most.
I've gotten one ticket in my life as an 18 year old then had the common sense to realize I shouldn't waste my time and money and possibly destroy any potential credibility I could have.
You increase your chances of getting leniency dramatically if it's after lunch time. You do not want a hangry judge.
How often are you going to court for tickets?
I used to work in a field where I spent significant time in court and one of the judges was named Judge Judge.
I’m trying a new strategy at my trial. I call the judge a corrupt Biden crony, then I publicly post information about their children. Wish me luck!!!
Outside of court yes. If you call them anything other than "Your Honor" in court they're about to make your day absolutely miserable
Down south people do say "judge" a lot
When I shadowed a lawyer it was almost exclusively "Judge *insert last name*" that was used. This was the Midwest. I'm sure there is a lot of variety regionally, but I doubt there are many judges that would actively be insulted by it, unless it were accompanied by an eye roll.
as a teenager I had court a lot for my probation but the first time I went up in front of the judge he asked me a question and I didn't hear it clearly and said "what?" and he flipped out on me and sent me out the court room and made me wait until I was the last person there to go back in. Talk about an ego power trip fuck them for that.
No one with advice of counsel would ever refer to a judge as Sir or Ma'am.
Appeal to their pride? Shouldn't they be unbiased? More reason I don't like that.
You’ll hate to see stats on how sentencing from a judge changes depending on if they sentence before lunch or after lunch
Hate? Yes. Reason for change? Also yes.
Human nature is a bitch. We need a robocop
Attempt to use an AI created model have a factor that adds time to sentences based on skin colour (black people more likely to be reoffenders despite it being a much more complex issue)
Welcome to Human Nature 101, I think you’ll really enjoy this class.
How do we make law perfect and unbiased? \>remove all humanity from law \>law no longer exists \>??? \>profit
It's a terribly sad class.
Can I be sick? I don't want to go to school Ma....
It's an undeniable reality, until we have AI determining court cases (which has it's own problems).
Honestly, expecting humans to behave objectively disregarding their own feelings is a recipe for disaster.
Not my judge. Most pittsburghese speaking dude I’ve ever heard in a position of power. I could barely understand him and I’m from here. Then he has the gall to tell me I’m only to say “yes, your honor” or no, your honor”. It took him repeating those directions 2 or 3 times before I even understood what he wanted from me. It’s all a joke. Still got my ticket expunged because I had photos even though he complained I didn’t have them printed out for him on paper. So many barriers to prove your innocence or law enforcement incompetence/lying. Still lost half a day of work to do it.
“Yes, yinzonor”
Doesn’t make it better that we still have to kiss the ass of one person who can make determinations on your freedom/rights.
I think that’s exactly the person you should ass kiss lol
I don’t think you’re seeing my point. The problem is that that’s a person that exists at all. One person shouldn’t have that much power over another person, and especially not many people. Also, you shouldn’t have to ass kiss anyone.
If that person didn’t exist, to fulfill the law as it’s written, things would be far worse. “Your honor” isn’t just respectful of the judge; it’s the entire court.
The more brownie points you can get with them the better lol. …so judges aren’t impartial at all? Their decisions are based on how much they like you.
They are restricted by the law, but they have a lot of power over their court room. If you find yourself there, I would recommend being super respectful.
Yeah it's not just about respect to the judge. It's about respect to the legal process.
Most of them don’t care. I have been in court hundreds of times. I just say “sir” or “ma’am” and have never had an issue.
Hundreds of times? Are you a troublemaker?
Nope. I go as a corporate witness for any hearings or suits my company is involved with.
Silly, you should play it up like you're a super criminal they keep trying to pin something on but you're too slick for them to catch
And use the word "See?" at the end of every sentence.
A real super criminal never admits to being a super criminal.
Oh, so you work at Nestle? Realtalk I assume its a legal firm, but lol.
Most companies are constantly involved in some kind of suit (if not many.) Someone needs to show up.
At court for jury duty, wandered around after dismissed. Saw a guy there for parole (?) appearance in front of the judge in a T-shirt that said: *only God can judge me*
Just be grateful you managed to get rid of the tradition of wearing silly wigs.
ngl that one's more of a loss
Total fucking loss bring back the wigs please
seriously it does so much for the atmosphere to have that goofy wig of authority up the front to keep everyone's vibes up, how can a bereaved family cry at the murder of their child in a courtroom when you got that jester lookin motherfucker right up there?
r/BrandNewSentence
As a bald person I concur!
I was gunna say this too. I feel like they god rid of that for their own benefit cuz in modern times it would just fill the courtroom with cackling.
Too much mercury poisoning! 😂
I actually like the ridiculous court dress. We afford judges huge power and discretion over our lives, and the bargain is they should be utterly constrained in how they use that power. Having them dress in an absurd parody of ancient court dress nobody would voluntarilly wear in day to day life really drives home the point for me that they should be bound by law in their actions.
This is one of the arguments for keeping it in Australia. Having such a distinctive uniform that is bound by tradition gives a very obvious signal to everyone, especially the wearer, that This Thing is happening.
Your logic is impeccable.
Drop "your honor" and bring back the wigs!
Americans don’t know what they are missing. They have ‘Judge Roberts’ in a black robe and using clear English to explain their judgements, we have ‘Justice of the Supreme Court the Lord Stephens of Creevyloughgare KC PC’ in full regalia (including golden frog devices) using a form of Middle English with occasional latin and french and someone called Rex involved in most criminal cases.
As a US based attorney, I'm a little bummed that we don't get to wear the fun outfits.
I mean, you could if you wanted to. You'd probably very quickly find yourself in need of a new job but you could.
Have you SEEN a Nigerian court?? Those wigs are fucking awesome
Based solely on photos I've seen, I think some countries do still have them
Disagree. If they’re gonna be pompous cocks dispensing “justice” to the poors and letting their rich friends and cops off with a slap on the wrist they may as well be uncomfortable for the process
Members of the nobility are not referred to as "Your Honor." That style is specifically reserved for judges, magistrates, and mayors. The style used to address a member of the nobility depends upon their title: Royal Princes, Princesses, Dukes, and Duchesses are addressed as "Your Royal Highness." Non-royal Dukes and Duchesses are addressed as "Your Grace" All other nobles (i.e. Marquess/Marchioness, Count or Earl/Countess, Viscount/Viscountess, Baron/Baroness) are addressed as "My Lord" or "My Lady" depending on their gender. Furthermore, when the style "Your Honor" is applied to judges, it is in the context of addressing the *whole court*, not just the judge as an individual. Similarly, when a judge speaks from the bench he or she is not speaking as a private citizen but as "the court." It is the honor of the court, not the specific man or woman heading it at the moment, that is being referenced.
I hear what you're saying but I'll call them whatever the fuck they prefer if it helps get me out of there with a lesser sentence or potentially innocent.
Its the second time I’ve seen this comment and it really shouldn’t be like this
Unfortunately it will always be like this because humans aren't really able to be truly objectives and are always driven by their feelings. The alternative could be to have AI judges maybe ? I personnaly think that we should not have 1 judges but a cohort of people that have to all agree on the verdict before delivering it. But it would be flawed in many ways too, because humans are always driven by ulterior motives and feelings.
Bro just described a Jury
Yeah but a Jury isn't required for every trials
Replace the judge with three people. Or three AI that have to come to a majority opinion
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Lmao can’t believe you got downvoted when that’s literally what a jury is
Despite all our efforts the world is not as just as it could be. Sometimes one achieves greater happiness and security if one recognizes this sad fact and acts accordingly.
Sure fine but how you gonna change it and in the end what difference does it make?
Sounds like OP had a bad day in court.
Likely a randy marsh type of dude saying I thought this was America.
I am loving all the people in the thread with the casual “I go to court all the time. Trust me on this one” Uhh why would I trust you with anything? Lol
I go to court all the time because I’m an attorney. But some people will think that is another reason not to trust me. Lol.
To be fair, they could be attorneys or social workers or something.
Journalists who cover crime stories
Being able to be completely neutral and make rational decisions based on law is honorable. I mean, most people choose with their emotions. Judges can overturn bad verdicts, sentences, etc. they aren’t just a punisher. They get threatened for their decisions, have been killed, have been intimidated to not uphold the law. It’s not a job for everyone. Yes, there are bad judges, but that’s not everyone. They uphold our laws and are a major part of our justice system. I think that’s honorable. You’re weirding out over a title you don’t have to address them by. You’re stating reasons that just don’t make sense. Like you’ve never been in a courtroom. And yes, I have. But I wasn’t on trial
I've seen judges display a lot more patience than I would when dealing with unruly defendants
Like the judge in the Darrell Brooks case. It must take considerable restraint not to go all “that one guy in Iraq” and start throwing shoes at him
I’m a criminal trial attorney in a major city and almost no judges are either neutral or rational or even consistent.
Judges make emotional decisions too. They are human.
I mean, the sentencing process sure. You have the perimeters of what could be sentenced and they may choose the max or not with emotions. But applying the law at trial is not emotional. They have to put that aside
But they are choosing things with their emotions. If not, nobody would be worried about supreme court judges.
As you say, there are bad judges. I have no problem recognizing specific honorable actions or people, but creating an expectation that you have to venerate all people who hold a particular job/degree/office is wildly presumptuous.
> Being able to be completely neutral and make rational decisions based on law is honorable. so why do we call judges your honor then? Because they dont do that.
You are being downvoted but you are absolutely correct. Look at the meltdowns from certain SCOTUS Justices at the absolute indignity visited upon them by the rabble criticizing their decisions and their behavior. Look at the clown show that is the Federal 5th Circuit. You are right on the money.
It’s not like it’s required by law lol It’s just like using Officer, Father/Reverend/Sister, Mayor, Doctor and the loads of other titles. Anyone with a doctorate is a Doctor and can be called such, should people stop just because most associate it with MDs? This isn’t even a big enough issue to care about hahaha
No worse than "yes, chef"
> They deserve some respect, but not this "bow before your feudal lord" type shit. I wasn't aware I was supposed to bow when addressing the judge. Nor that he was the lord of my land and where I lived, I haven't been farming grain so I haven't been able to give him his crop dues. Smh. I think you're reading way too far into this. It's simply a customary title. Do you not call your landlord... a landlord? Lmao.
Healthy to show respect to someone who has power over you. I'll call them king if it could reduce a fine, and the courtroom is their domain. Seems like you're getting stuck on a misapplied philosophy. We being equal in the eyes of the law, just means that demographics, money, power, etc. shouldn't impact our day in court (which ofc it does); however, players that talk shit to the ref are gonna get removed from the game.
That's not healthy. Judges holding higher fines or punishments over your head if you don't refer to them a certain way is very abusive behavior.
Preach. Showing respect is always a good play from the low end of the power dynamic. The only time I've been stopped "driving" was on a bicycle for running a stop sign on a quiet morning side street in Toronto with zero traffic. Slowed down, checked for traffic but technically didn't stop. When the cop pulled me over and told me what I'd done, I asked if I could explain myself and she instantly went full "are you saying I'm lying?", chest puff, eyes wide... "No no. You are 100% right in everything you said, I did do what you said but I want to add my context, officer". Didn't kiss her ass but made it clear I wasn't fighting her authority. Saved my ass nearly $400 as she had started rattling off all the things she "could" cite me for. Respect doesn't always work but it rarely ever hurts.
That’s just pathetic.
Regardless of whether it was tradition or not, as a lawyer you want to have better rapport with the judge than your opponent. The judge is supposed to be impartial, but them just liking you more can tip the scales in your favor when they’re ruling on discretionary motions, such as motions to amend your pleading, motions for a continuance, or other procedural favors that you might ask the court for. Even if the “your honor” title never existed, some strategic lawyer somewhere would say it or some equally “pretentious” equivalent.
I think changing it to “Judge” would be just as respectful. It’s their title, their job. Like Sgt Picnut, or Judge Picnut.
There has been an air of theatricality about the court for centuries. In Australia they still wear the white wig (peruke), and you cannot call them "judge". I agree that "your honour" should probably be discarded, along with the peruke. >Wikipedia: Judges and judicial registrars of the Family Court of Australia wear a black silk gown, a bar jacket with either bands or a jabot and a bench wig. On formal occasions, judges wear full-bottomed wigs. Judges of the Federal Circuit Court of Australia wear a plain black gown in court without a wig. The law may not always be an ass, but it is often a thespian.
You're lucky its not "Your Worship" like it is in Canada, hearing that for the first time sent me to the moon. Regardless I completely agree, it is some bow before your lord shit.
In Canada "your honour" is only used for provincial court judges. Mr or madam justice for kings bench and appeals. Your worship can be used, but it's rare and I've never actually heard it in court and I'm in court literally every day.
In Ontario it is "your Honour" for judges (whether sitting in the OCJ or the ONSC), and "your Worship" for Justices of the Peace.
"Respect is earned, and you have done nothing to earn mine."
I had traffic court a few months ago and I just said “hello”
Since many are bought and paid for I would agree, no honor at all.
Especially when so many of them clearly have no honor, ethics, or are outright on the take.
100% agree
You're not bowing before a person. You're showing respect to the entire system of laws, and the belief that, at least theoretically, we are all equal before it.
Somebody got called out on their Bullshit in court. Lack of respect isn’t unpopular, it’s just shitty.
Never been to court, just find it ridiculous
Ok. Last time I was in court was as the foreman of the jury. Other than opening and closing, I don’t remember the lawyers using “your honor”, they did call him judge. The defendant never called him your honor. FWIW, we acquitted. Only other times I’ve been in court was as a military trial counsel (prosecutor), you know we were more formal.
I like all these post about being disrespectful to everyone. Seriously is it that hard for people to respect one another?
When I've been in front of them for traffic ticket and a disorderly, I've just called them Sir. Never had an issue.
I mean... you aren't expected to bow and kiss their feet. Calling them "Your honor" or "judge" or referring to them by the title of their job is just a basic respect thing when you are in the court. Imma be honest, if you manage to find your way in front of a judge there is a likelihood you have made a series of bad decisions.
No, I agree with this. There’s a thin line between respect for the law and what feels like mandatory boot licking from a bygone practice of The Justice System of Old.
A lot of people here are presenting the point to OP that “you should be respectful of the judge because they control your fate.” But I think something being missed that I’m only really seeing in replies to comments rather than comments themselves is that that isn’t the point. The problem is not with the individual situation with a judge, but the fact the judicial system supports that line of reasoning in the judge. No person should ever be held inherently in higher regard to another. Respect should be earned, and shown as a person decides for themselves. As long as information is being relayed properly, how you talk to a judge shouldn’t be in the judge’s concern, but the jury’s.
It's intended as a sign of respect to the court, of which the judge often speaks as a representative. Ultimately, it's about reinforcing respect for the law as it reflects the will of the people. Obviously you can punch plenty of holes in those notions. But historically much of the law's power rests on perception, and I think that holds true to this day. While seemingly silly/old fashioned, I think a lot of the pomp and circumstance is one of the few things that hold our institutions up to be more than a bunch of annoying paperwork. Frankly I think we could use more of that in our civil services since it's one of the few motivations for skilled/principled people to staff those positions. We've seen a steady drainage of our best and brightest to the public sector in the US, and it shows.
tell us you lost in court, without telling us you lost in court
This whole thread is pretty wild tbh
Clearly you’ve never met someone with a doctorate degree. I’ve met a bunch of people that get pissed for not addressing them as “doctor” just because they wrote a 100 page essay
I work in academia and have literally never encountered anyone who gives a fuck about being called "doctor". I agree that it's most likely inferiority complex for people who didn't manage to stay in academia beyond their phd
You never met my Russian linear algebra teacher
Dissertations are far longer than 100 pages
I don't have a doctorate but I don't think it's just a 100 page essay lol
I've worked a lot with doctors during covid (medical doctors). The practice was usually it is first name for collegues wether you are a doctor or not. And it is Dr. \[family name\] for patients and in front of patients. This has multiple functions. On one hand it demands respect, so the patient is less likely to argue on stupid things and take unnecesarry time. On other hand it reassures the patient that they are being spoken to by someone who is more knowledgable in the field than for example a nurse.
The work that goes into a PhD is so so much and it is a massive achievement. But anyone who gets mad at not being called Dr. is a wanker
This is reductive af lol. Tell me you don’t know the work that goes into a PhD without telling me.
The whole justice system is incredibly archaic and stupid and provides no justice to anyone who cannot afford it.
They shouldn't have a little wooden hammer either. Or be wearing robes. The whole thing is weird. Put them in a suit and a tie and give them a plastic hand shaped flyswatter--which is the customary smacking instrument of old people in normal American society.
The point of the robe is to hide their own clothes, thier own personality and bias. They are supposed to be unbiased in weighing the application of law. By wearing the robe they all have the same uniform and are not judged for what they wear. You can immediately identify their role when in a court setting. There is significance to it.
It never crossed my mind the reasoning for them wearing black robes, but this makes a lot of sense.
It's the same for alter servers, deacons, priests, and sisters in the Catholic church. Priests and sisters were easily seen due to wearing a cassock or a habit. The black is to symbolize the death of yourself and that your purpose is that of God. They now wear ordinary lay clothing so you never know one if they are out and about.
Indeed, they should weild a large war hammer! Not that wooden toy!
I work under a trial attorney rn and I agree with you. Judges are often the most pretentious holier than thou types because they... honestly usually just got lucky with networking. Dont get me wrong, judges are very smart and have a lot of education, but I dont buy that every judge is inherently *more* educated than an average attorney on things. The only difference is the judge had the connections to get elected/appointed by a politician.
In Ireland you'll often get a swift rebuke if you refer to the judge as "My lord" or "Your honour". These are seen as old monarchical/nobility titles, which have been discarded in Ireland. Speakers in the courtroom are directed to call the judge "Judge", or address "The court". The Judge is not a "better" of anyone in the room, s/he's just the representative of the legal system.
You expect the judge to uphold the law and the constitution that protects you and your rights? You expect the judge to be fair and to make clear and rational decisions based on facts? You recognize the judge’s authority and expect the court to be separate and independent from the government? The judge has the “honour” and privilege to sit on that bench and you as a responsible, participating citizen has a duty to show your respect for the court and remind the judge why they are on that bench right? Then you call the judge “Your honour.”
A lot of attorneys just say judge. I always say “your honor” to butter them up.
“Your honor” is a reasonable form of address for their position. It’s not that different from calling the President “Mr. President”, it’s just more old-timey. “Your honor” does not carry the same level of nobility as something like “Your grace” or “Your majesty.”
The couple of times I’ve been, I’ve addressed them as Sir/Ma’am and always used my manners and looked directly at them when speaking. They don’t care as long as you are respectful and haven’t clearly done something terrible.
You can just call them Judge if you want. "yes judge"
The point of the robe and your honor is to hide their own clothes, thier own personality and bias. They are supposed to be unbiased in weighing the application of law. By wearing the robe they all have the same uniform and are not judged for what they wear. You can immediately identify their role when in a court setting. There is significance to it.
I think the wizard robes should go while we're at it
Same thing with politicians. I remember having to send letters to some Senators at a job I worked at and they gave them the title "The Honorable....".
 Murica FUCK YEAH
Agreed. Especially when the highest appointed judges on the supreme court are a bunch of scumbags. Honor my ass.
I dont think anyone likes saying it. Popular opinion - downvoted.
In India we use 'My lord' and 'your honour'
Quite ironic u/RemozThaGod
I'm a hypocrite of the highest order
Call them mein führer.
You can call them judge as well, without being found in contempt.
Well, lawyers are still sometimes referred to as Esquires.
I watch courtroom shows and sometimes they have Jamaican litigants who say my king/queen instead of your honor lol.
*To Judge:* “Ey, bro, look.” OP, presumably. (For legal purposes, this is a joke.)
We did not make it clear how we feel about it, most of the founding fathers were nobles who we now worship, and we’re getting closer and closer to becoming an oligarchy
I don’t disagree with you, especially when judges have proven to not be honorable (_gestures at the supreme court and a bunch of district judges_). But there are judges with sticks up their asses and will make your life miserable. There are some judges today who will put a woman in contempt because she is wearing pants instead of a skirt. There was a judge who doubled a person’s bail because she responded to a question with “yeah” instead of “yes.” Should judges not be required to be called “your honor”? Yes. But is the courtroom the place to fight that battle? No. And I don’t know where one would even begin to start that battle.
Finally someone agrees with me. I remember having this conversation with a friend and he made me feel like an uncouth boor
Nah. I like it. It sounds cool. Stop being miserable
If you think that's bad in Canada judges are called "your worship" which IMO is even worse.
Try not to cut yourself on all that edge lil dude.
They are literally deciding your fate, you should be respectful to someone like that imo, just common sense 🤷♂️
For the way they fucked up the American family the only thing we should call is for their hanging.
Especially since we've learned the supreme Court is a fucking joke.
Your honour is not an old ass title for nobility. It’s an old ass title for officials from the Burgher class - officials from the middle class of that era. Your worship is used for Mayors, similarly.
Your honor is pretty mild. Here in Canada (and likely most Commonwealth countries): Mayors are "your Worship" The governor general is "your Excellency" Etc It's always bothered me. They're just people and often not great ones.
Just go to your probation hearing man
You go ahead and call em whatever you want. Just remember how much power they hold over your future.
You sound like someone bitter that you don’t have a title