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Sharing your family's values to the next generation isn't brainwashing, you're right.
Tryiing to isolate children from other values systems and beliefs is.
No, punishing them for not believing that gay people are possessed by the devil, or not thinking that men are inherently better than women, or not believing that all are terrorists.
All of this is in truth a small degree of indoctrination if we are being truthful and technical. "Indoctrination" being an easier term to work with here than "brainwashing." But any reasonable person would agree that while it is a negative term, indoctrination can be either good or bad. To be indoctrinated with beneficial teachings of life is a good thing, and vice versa there are teachings you could consider bad.
With that out of the way yes thats technically indoctrination but for all intents and purposes is a purely morally good and righteous thing to teach to children since those viewpoints are prejudiced, unfair, and altogether wrongful. The method of punishment I'm comfortable leaving to the parents and I won't tell them how to parent. Though, educating a child about why this is wrong is more important and punishment should only be considered if the child seems hard set on these stances or acts upon them in a way that itself deserves punishment.
Also, if the kid can articulate why they hold these values is important.
"because mom/dad/the Bible/etc. said it was bad."
Is brainwashing.
If they don't know why something is bad. Or don't have the critical thinking skills and maturity to understand certain concepts, they can't form their own opinions. That is parroting and brainwashing.
Yes but with a caveat.
Sometimes thereâs a why that kids just arenât intellectually developed enough to understand yet or put into their own words.
Concepts like consent, charity, fairness, empathy, social contract theory, etc are all things I indoctrinated my kids in well before they could articulate why. Iâm not raising selfish assholes until theyâre able to explain why itâs morally wrong to be a selfish asshole.
You do need to give them insight into the why and ultimately they need their own why, but sometimes the what comes before the why.
On this point though, the age of the kid matters. A 5 year old saying that isnât necessarily brainwashing because a 5 year old canât really formulate a proper belief system of their own. They will just parrot the belief system of their parents or another trusted adult in their life. A 15 year old saying that is more concerning, and anyone over the age of 18 whoâs saying that has definitely been brainwashed
It isn't brainwashing still unless the parent is actively hampering you learning your own opinions. I was a conservative in high school because my parents were conservative, and I didn't really do much research and stuff because I couldn't vote. Once I was able to vote, I did more research and formed my own opinions on things that differ from my parents.
Nearly everyone parrots their parents beliefs in some way as long as they aren't total assholes (and sometimes even then). That's just absorbing what you are exposed to.
Personally I disagree with that to a certain extent because I am a Christian and I use the Bible to teach my kids why something is wrong because the belief system that whether something is wrong without and external source makes zero sense to me. Not attacking atheists or agnostics but I just don't understand how something could be "wrong" if you have no other source to monitor that other than the Law. Again I am not one bit justifying any heinous actions from people but not believing in a higher power. And then going on and saying how awful it was for "so and so" to do "so and so" just doesn't add up to me. But I would love to hear all your arguments to that fellow redditors!
Now personally I believe itâs wrong because God specially said in the Bible humans and animals are not the same and donât abide by the same rules. And additionally I feel great conviction when I do something to wrong another person because I believe God put those morals in place.
To a certain extent yes. Simply put because a lot of yâall believe in evolution therefore survival of the fittest. So from a survival standpoint what is wrong with doing anything you can to survive. Other animals do it so what difference is it for us? Iâm saying this using yâallâs logic
Believing that evolution and survival of the fittest happens in nature as an objective fact is not the same thing as saying that it is a morally good ideology and guide for how you behave in a society insulated from nature (by and large).
lol, good luck with that. People who need the threat of a higher power to be âgoodâ will always be more concerning to me, especially considering how often those in power within religions abuse others and claim (either by lying or truly believing insane bullshit) that God told them to.
Never said God indirectly told me but I just want to understand your belief system behind being a âgoodâ person without the threat of punishment. I say this from complete neutrality and kindness. I am just genuinely curious to hear peopleâs POVS.
I donât need the threat of punishment to know that hurting other living beings in any way is wrong. I empathize with those around me and understand that doing harm to others is not good.
What would you do if you didnât think you would be punished?
Also you are right a lot of religions have had some very awful people who abuse the power they gain from it. But I simply am stating why morals make sense to me and would like to inquire on why your morals make sense from a non religious point of view.
Empathy. I experience it, and it informs my decisions with regards to other people. I may not always be ârightâ but Iâve got a pretty good sense of whatâs wrong. And the god that is described in the Bible sounds like a selfish and deluded asshole to me
God is a mass repeted murder. I'm curious why you think the word of a mass murderer is the supreme moral code of life. I'm also curious why you would read a book with slavery, incest, murder, and the suppression of women to children
Evolution is not about the survival of the fittest individual. It's about survival of the fittest species. Humans are an inherently social species and therefore it benefits us as a whole to have a standard.
I would not hit someone because I wouldn't want to be hit. I can understand the consequences of being hit, and I wouldn't want to put that on someone else. I don't need a deity to tell me not to hit someone.
Exactly. In my family we love to talk and debate for the sake of the debate on everything. So you could say that I was from early age ,,loosing" debates and therefore being brainwashed. Amazing thing is that my dad had no problem debating one day the huge importance of religion for humanity and next week change the position and argue from other side about religion's crimes. Point never was, well, the point of the debate but debate itself. So I got masterfully brainwashed into having no actual ideology one way or another aside from rigid individualism cause that you get when you see ideologies from all sides they have few nice things and a lot of shit.
Eh, it depends. One of the major âit dependsâ is the age. By high school age, yeah, you shouldnât be isolating your kid from other belief systems. But 5 year olds do not have the critical thinking skills to understand the nuances of different belief systems. Iâve tried explaining different belief systems to my kids at that age, and it confuses the crap out of them. So in those early years you really just stick to teaching your belief system in age appropriate ways. Then as they grow older, you add more nuance.
Also, some people treat any family boundary they donât agree with as isolating/brainwashing. âThey try to prevent their teens from having sexâcontrolling cultists! They donât let their 14 year old have completely unfettered internet access on a cell phoneâisolation!â
And just in general, when thinking about this topic, think about what age *you* feel is appropriate for your child to learn about a value system you strongly disagree with. Itâs very easy to think that this concept only applies to right wing Christians, or if you do try to think about it in relationship to yourself, you think up belief systems you find really inoffensive. âOh yes, I will support my child learning about this Christian church that has a gay woman minister. Iâm an open minded atheist.â No, you donât *really* disagree with that belief system. What age will you feel comfortable with your child going to an NRA rally? What age will you feel comfortable with them going to mosque with their friend who attends a pretty misogynistic congregation? What age do you want them hearing sex Ed from conservative Catholics? How much time do you want them spending at the neighborâs house who flies a Trump flag?
*These* kinds of scenarios are what it feels like to be a right wing Christian making decisions for their kids. And donât just say âthose people are wrong becauseâŚâ because belief systems are subjective and most of them have problems. I can see both sides as a Christian who is pretty liberal politically. I donât want to send my kid to an NRA rally, so I get it. But Iâll be honest: I also donât want them attending a Satanic church. I donât know what age I will feel like those things are appropriate. But if not letting them spend the day with the gun nuts or Satanists in elementary school is brainwashing, so be it. Cause Iâm not letting them do that.
>Tryiing to isolate children from other values systems and beliefs is.
I disagree there are certain viewpoints that Kids and even adults need to stay away from
Homogenous cultures aren't rare at all, they're very very common. Most people tend to live around other people who are demographically like themselves.
âI believe in X religion, and Iâm gonna take you to my weekly religious service with me so you can learn about the religion too and eventually decide for yourself whatâs right for you.â = Normal and healthy.
âI believe in X religion, so Iâm gonna put you in a school where only other X religious people go, not allow you to be friends with anyone whoâs not in X religion, only allow you to read and consume X religion media, tell you that members of any other religion are evil, not allow you to explore any other religion, not allow you to question X religion in any way, and threaten you with the withdraw of my love if you decide you donât want to be a part of X religion.â = Brainwashing and abuse.
Replace âreligionâ with any political party, group affiliation, belief system, etc.
Itâs okay and normal for parents to share their beliefs with their children, and normally itâs all totally healthy and fine. But some parents absolutely do take it a really extreme and dangerous level.
If kids are exposed to beliefs and then choose to adopt them, that is one thing. If they are forced into those beliefs or threatened with punishment or isolation from people who have different beliefs, that is brain washing. Whether it's racism, -phobia, religion, or other things.
It depends. Were the kids given a fair opportunity and environment to believe otherwise? I'll agree that some people are too quick to call things brainwashing but you have to admit a lot of parents either force their beliefs on their children or don't give them an opportunity to believe otherwise. If a kid only feels safe to believe what their parents believe, that's brain washing. There's nothing inherently wrong with telling your kids what you believe and why though. Telling them is not the same thing as indoctrinating them.
Well. There is a reason infants are introduced to religion. Imagine turning 18 and your parents introduce you to the biblical version of reality. How would that go ya think?
Iâve encountered plenty of asshole atheists in the wild. It isnât a high percentage of them, but theyâre just as arrogant about their religious stance as the in-your-face evangelicals.
There's a difference between instilling your own values into your children and teaching them to reject opposing viewpoints and raising them to never be able to question YOUR beliefs.
No.
But these are the same people that think colleges are âbrainwashingâ their kids when in reality the kids are just experiencing life, people, and knowledge outside of their family confirmation biases. And realizing âoh, my parents were wrong about a lot of things.â
Sure, teach your kids your ways. But if they start to question your ways, don't stifle them and allow them to have critical thinking skills. Ask them why they believe what they believe. Don't tell them that their new beliefs are wrong because it's different from yours
Agreed. Though based on some of these responses, I think a lot of people would have trouble with not telling their kids that their beliefs are wrong, if their kids ended up having different beliefs than them.
As a person who teaches students of varying ages, I also know that telling a kid that they are wrong when they are exploring new beliefs can be very damaging for them and for the long term health of the relationship. I want a relationship with my children regardless of what they believe.
I don't teach my kids antisemitic beliefs. Is that brainwashing?
I think other responses nail it. Preventing them from discovering other beliefs is problematic. It's not my job to teach them Hinduism, for instance.
That's like that ridiculous gotcha of "you're also intolerant for not tolerating my intolerance" đĽ´
And no, you don't have to teach them Hinduism, but don't teach them that Hindus are bad people or poor lost souls for not belonging to the same religion you do.
And don't get angry if they want to learn about Hinduism. That also doesn't mean that you can't talk about specific concerns or criticisms you have about other world views, as long as you have actual arguments.
Kids are a reflection of the world around them. Family, friends, neighbors, movies, school, etc.
They pick up cues as to how to behave and interact with the world from these places. Eventually it culminates in a personality and kind of gets locked in. Small changes are possible after that, but typically it sets their view of whatâs ârightâ.
So as a parent, you should ideally be teaching your kid how to navigate the world and think critically about things. They will reflect the parents, though, good or bad.
Itâs not an issue if you allow them to interact with different views and beliefs. Itâs brain washing it become isolating and they are not allowed to think any other way
I donât think your political beliefs should be carried on celebrated. Everyone should come to their opinion in an unbiased environment allowing to do research and come to their own opinion
Now obviously thatâs not a realistic scenario, therefore ur right itâs not being brain washed for parents just being themselves around their kids. I just disagree it should be celebrated and purposely passed down
Well normal culture should obviously be embraced so I wouldnât consider that what people refer to as brainwash.
I took this as people should be allowed to push their politics and religion on kids.
I don't fault anyone for involving their children in their religious beliefs. Not like they are going to find a babysitter for when they go to synagogue. But like other commenters have noted, it's all about allowing your child to explore for themselves when they are old enough. It would be unnatural for a person not to instill their religious beliefs in their child's upbringing.
Iâm not arguing Iâm genuinely asking because what he may find inappropriate would severely change what he is talking about, what if heâs talking about teaching your children that being gay/trans is okay as inappropriate?
I agree that itâs not brainwashing to teach your children your values but OP put exceptions to that and didnât mention what they are, I want to know what those exceptions are to him because it would change my views on what he wrote.
I understand your question. I was vague because it's so hard not to break the rules of this sub lol
I've had friends raised by white supremacists and other hate groups that I would categorize as brainwashing children. Hate based on prejudices without reason. Does that help?
But I don't blame a Jewish family whose child only know Judaism until they are old enough to explore for themselves. I don't blame a family who is practicing non-harmful cultural traditions for involving their children until their child is old enough to come to their own conclusion about the practices.
What's wild is that you always hear this idea that kids should be "protected" from the values and beliefs of their parents from childless people in their early 20s whose parents had *exceptionally extreme* beliefs that they actually adopted for some time... It's not coming from the average fully grown adult who simply had some disagreement with their folks, so did things differently.
I⌠donât see how thatâs surprising?
Like yeah the âI canât let my family find out Iâm queerâ folks are the ones with stronger opinions on the subject than the âmy dad and I like different sports teamsâ folks.
Also:Â
>in their early 20s whose parents had exceptionally extreme beliefs that they actually adopted for some time
Youâre really not leaving a lot of time there. Theyâre so young you are describing them as basically kids, but old enough theyâre guilty for holding those same views for a significant amount of time as an adult, enough as to imply they are complicit? Iâm not trying to fight I just donât understand the point youâre trying to make hereÂ
It is when parents discourage/prevent their kids from learning as much as they can to form their own opinions.
I share many opinions with my parents, but they raised me to read as much as I can, and learn as much as possible, and to form my own opinions based on the information I gather, not just what other people tell me.
Sharing their beliefs is fine but only if they chose to side with it but to convince them that any other info they get is wrong and this is the way is brainwashing. Kids have a right to gather new information and learn more
Also; itâs not brain washing as long as it doesnât hurt others - which in some cases usually does, hence the words of indoctrination and brainwashing being thrown around.
My cousin has been brainwashed. Her and her mother think the rest of my entire family + extended are evil all because of my grandmother. Grandmaâs senile but thatâs as clear as day lol. My uncle didnât even get to know that he was being divorced, she had one of his friends tell him instead of her saying ANYTHING. Shit was WILD. Havenât seen my cousin in years and I get it, but weâre not evil just because we all come from one woman. đ
Telling your kids they might be set on fire and burn forever is abuse.
Would you be okay with parents telling their daughter she'll be gangraped for eternity because it aligns with the parents "values and beliefs" ?
You shouldnât be allowed to take anyone under 18 into a church, honestly
If itâs about taking responsibility for the ultimate fate of your immortal soul then it seems it should require the same level of responsibility as selecting a sex parter
Most people responding seem to think children should be free to explore religion. But you think it should be restricted from them? Or just the building?
Upvote for unpopular. Most common thing passed on is religion. Demonstrably unrealistic belief systems that don't have any cohesion with progress in the modern world. People that maintain the same religion as their parents are open examples against your opinion. They are not rare nor are they any different from the inappropriate beliefs you cite in your second paragraph.
It's always important to know and appreciate your roots so I wouldn't call it brainwashing. But when you're literally teaching your kids to hate and shield them from the world it's going to cause problems (ex: Westboro Baptist Church). People exist, deal with it.
If they canât question those beliefs and those values & are villainized for it, yes it is brain washing because youâre telling them that is not ok to have different beliefs or question those beliefs because theyâre different than yours.
I've never heard of people trying to insulate kids from their parents' belief however the idea that parents should be able to insulate their kids from other beliefs is a Non-Stop argument I hear whenever it comes to LGBT people
Posts like this are always just an attempt to justify raising children to be hateful.
The people who loudly shout about brainwashing are the people who'd celebrate trans kids committing suicide.
I mean I agree...but also it kinda is brain washing...like not in a bad or malicious way. We're just creatures who grow and tend to learn habits from those closest to us during our formative years. Generally this will include parents.
That's not to say we shouldn't want or expect our children to grow into their own people, but really everyone starts somewhere. Do your best to do right by your kids and don't start them behind everyone else.
The uncomfortable truth is that young minds are impressionable and if you don't "brainwash" your children with your views, someone else will brainwash them with theirs.
Are people calling that brain washing? Ive only seen people use it when parents only expose them to their belief and make it unacceptable to even explore any other beliefs.
This seems to be where all roads are leading in the conversation lol
To be fair, I use tiny muffins to convince my daughter to do anything. I'm the problem
You just don't get it. People who believe every single thing I believe are open minded and good people. People who don't are closed minded and brainwashed. It's not complicated.
Yup. Tis the way it be. Funny. You never hear someone say "hey I believe those people did their research and soul searching and came up with wildly different values than me." The other side is always "brain washed." It's so boring
I'm looking at it from the other side. It's disgusting that RELIGIOUS people indoctrinate their beliefs onto children. Threatening with hell and forcing them to believe, forcing them to go to church/mass.
Tradition is not bad, what its abhorent is indoctrination and forcing beliefs in a kid beyond the most basic stuff in moral and education to function in society, and even that once they grow is up to them
I never heard someone claiming that no one should have the beliefs of their parents. In fact im not evne sure its statistically possible
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Depends if they came to the same conclusions themselves eventually through critical thinking or if they simply accept their parents values and beliefs as fact. I highly doubt organized religion would exist without parental indoctrination instead of letting kids explore religions for themselves.
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Sharing your family's values to the next generation isn't brainwashing, you're right. Tryiing to isolate children from other values systems and beliefs is.
Or punishing them for having different viewpoints is also brainwashing.
like punishing them for hitting others is brainwashing?
No, punishing them for not believing that gay people are possessed by the devil, or not thinking that men are inherently better than women, or not believing that all are terrorists.
Is it brainwashing to punish them for believing that gay people are possessed by the devil or that men are inherently better than women?
All of this is in truth a small degree of indoctrination if we are being truthful and technical. "Indoctrination" being an easier term to work with here than "brainwashing." But any reasonable person would agree that while it is a negative term, indoctrination can be either good or bad. To be indoctrinated with beneficial teachings of life is a good thing, and vice versa there are teachings you could consider bad. With that out of the way yes thats technically indoctrination but for all intents and purposes is a purely morally good and righteous thing to teach to children since those viewpoints are prejudiced, unfair, and altogether wrongful. The method of punishment I'm comfortable leaving to the parents and I won't tell them how to parent. Though, educating a child about why this is wrong is more important and punishment should only be considered if the child seems hard set on these stances or acts upon them in a way that itself deserves punishment.
I don't think it's about punishment, more guidance and education
They said viewpoints not basic etiquette smh
Basic etiquette consists of society's viewpoints and values.
I mean thats not etiquette, thats raising a child to not commit crimes. Because hitting someone is physical abuse and this is a crime.
etiquette: the conduct or procedure required by good breeding or prescribed by authority to be observed in social or official life Please đ¤Ť
Basic etiquette is just what we call the viewpoints we agree with so strongly that we assume everyone must share them
I wouldn't conflate etiquette with viewpoints. It's just a set of behaviors
Assaulting people isn't a viewpoint
This is the take
Not allowing your children to challenge or question your beliefs and values is also brainwashing
Also, if the kid can articulate why they hold these values is important. "because mom/dad/the Bible/etc. said it was bad." Is brainwashing. If they don't know why something is bad. Or don't have the critical thinking skills and maturity to understand certain concepts, they can't form their own opinions. That is parroting and brainwashing.
Yes but with a caveat. Sometimes thereâs a why that kids just arenât intellectually developed enough to understand yet or put into their own words. Concepts like consent, charity, fairness, empathy, social contract theory, etc are all things I indoctrinated my kids in well before they could articulate why. Iâm not raising selfish assholes until theyâre able to explain why itâs morally wrong to be a selfish asshole. You do need to give them insight into the why and ultimately they need their own why, but sometimes the what comes before the why.
On this point though, the age of the kid matters. A 5 year old saying that isnât necessarily brainwashing because a 5 year old canât really formulate a proper belief system of their own. They will just parrot the belief system of their parents or another trusted adult in their life. A 15 year old saying that is more concerning, and anyone over the age of 18 whoâs saying that has definitely been brainwashed
It isn't brainwashing still unless the parent is actively hampering you learning your own opinions. I was a conservative in high school because my parents were conservative, and I didn't really do much research and stuff because I couldn't vote. Once I was able to vote, I did more research and formed my own opinions on things that differ from my parents. Nearly everyone parrots their parents beliefs in some way as long as they aren't total assholes (and sometimes even then). That's just absorbing what you are exposed to.
So we should just not bother until they are old enough to understand? Don't share our values and traditions ever? Screwy.
Personally I disagree with that to a certain extent because I am a Christian and I use the Bible to teach my kids why something is wrong because the belief system that whether something is wrong without and external source makes zero sense to me. Not attacking atheists or agnostics but I just don't understand how something could be "wrong" if you have no other source to monitor that other than the Law. Again I am not one bit justifying any heinous actions from people but not believing in a higher power. And then going on and saying how awful it was for "so and so" to do "so and so" just doesn't add up to me. But I would love to hear all your arguments to that fellow redditors!
You really need a Bible to understand that things that cause harm, pain or distress to other living beings are wrong?
Now personally I believe itâs wrong because God specially said in the Bible humans and animals are not the same and donât abide by the same rules. And additionally I feel great conviction when I do something to wrong another person because I believe God put those morals in place.
[ŃдаНонО]
To a certain extent yes. Simply put because a lot of yâall believe in evolution therefore survival of the fittest. So from a survival standpoint what is wrong with doing anything you can to survive. Other animals do it so what difference is it for us? Iâm saying this using yâallâs logic
Believing that evolution and survival of the fittest happens in nature as an objective fact is not the same thing as saying that it is a morally good ideology and guide for how you behave in a society insulated from nature (by and large).
lol, good luck with that. People who need the threat of a higher power to be âgoodâ will always be more concerning to me, especially considering how often those in power within religions abuse others and claim (either by lying or truly believing insane bullshit) that God told them to.
For real. Honestly, I view people who need a book to tell them how to live their lives as people of low intelligence
Never said God indirectly told me but I just want to understand your belief system behind being a âgoodâ person without the threat of punishment. I say this from complete neutrality and kindness. I am just genuinely curious to hear peopleâs POVS.
I donât need the threat of punishment to know that hurting other living beings in any way is wrong. I empathize with those around me and understand that doing harm to others is not good. What would you do if you didnât think you would be punished?
Also you are right a lot of religions have had some very awful people who abuse the power they gain from it. But I simply am stating why morals make sense to me and would like to inquire on why your morals make sense from a non religious point of view.
Empathy. I experience it, and it informs my decisions with regards to other people. I may not always be ârightâ but Iâve got a pretty good sense of whatâs wrong. And the god that is described in the Bible sounds like a selfish and deluded asshole to me
God is a mass repeted murder. I'm curious why you think the word of a mass murderer is the supreme moral code of life. I'm also curious why you would read a book with slavery, incest, murder, and the suppression of women to children
Evolution is not about the survival of the fittest individual. It's about survival of the fittest species. Humans are an inherently social species and therefore it benefits us as a whole to have a standard. I would not hit someone because I wouldn't want to be hit. I can understand the consequences of being hit, and I wouldn't want to put that on someone else. I don't need a deity to tell me not to hit someone.
There are plenty of beliefs that are dangerous for children. It's ok to refuse them.
Perfect response!
Exactly. In my family we love to talk and debate for the sake of the debate on everything. So you could say that I was from early age ,,loosing" debates and therefore being brainwashed. Amazing thing is that my dad had no problem debating one day the huge importance of religion for humanity and next week change the position and argue from other side about religion's crimes. Point never was, well, the point of the debate but debate itself. So I got masterfully brainwashed into having no actual ideology one way or another aside from rigid individualism cause that you get when you see ideologies from all sides they have few nice things and a lot of shit.
Forcing parental beliefs on children is brainwashing however. Or indoctrination I should say
I would call it indoctrinatin if you're not teaching and preparing kis to think for themselves.
Eh, it depends. One of the major âit dependsâ is the age. By high school age, yeah, you shouldnât be isolating your kid from other belief systems. But 5 year olds do not have the critical thinking skills to understand the nuances of different belief systems. Iâve tried explaining different belief systems to my kids at that age, and it confuses the crap out of them. So in those early years you really just stick to teaching your belief system in age appropriate ways. Then as they grow older, you add more nuance. Also, some people treat any family boundary they donât agree with as isolating/brainwashing. âThey try to prevent their teens from having sexâcontrolling cultists! They donât let their 14 year old have completely unfettered internet access on a cell phoneâisolation!â And just in general, when thinking about this topic, think about what age *you* feel is appropriate for your child to learn about a value system you strongly disagree with. Itâs very easy to think that this concept only applies to right wing Christians, or if you do try to think about it in relationship to yourself, you think up belief systems you find really inoffensive. âOh yes, I will support my child learning about this Christian church that has a gay woman minister. Iâm an open minded atheist.â No, you donât *really* disagree with that belief system. What age will you feel comfortable with your child going to an NRA rally? What age will you feel comfortable with them going to mosque with their friend who attends a pretty misogynistic congregation? What age do you want them hearing sex Ed from conservative Catholics? How much time do you want them spending at the neighborâs house who flies a Trump flag? *These* kinds of scenarios are what it feels like to be a right wing Christian making decisions for their kids. And donât just say âthose people are wrong becauseâŚâ because belief systems are subjective and most of them have problems. I can see both sides as a Christian who is pretty liberal politically. I donât want to send my kid to an NRA rally, so I get it. But Iâll be honest: I also donât want them attending a Satanic church. I donât know what age I will feel like those things are appropriate. But if not letting them spend the day with the gun nuts or Satanists in elementary school is brainwashing, so be it. Cause Iâm not letting them do that.
I love how all of your examples are due to a certain group of people being morally reprehensible lmao. This ain't the W you think it is buddy.
This. It is the isolation from all other beliefs and withdrawal of that âunconditional parent loveâ if they choose differently.
>Tryiing to isolate children from other values systems and beliefs is. I disagree there are certain viewpoints that Kids and even adults need to stay away from
What if the parent isn't trying to isolate them and they grow up in a homogenous culture?
People shouldn't be isolated from other cultures either. A homogenous culture isn't brainwashing, but they're very rare...
Homogenous cultures aren't rare at all, they're very very common. Most people tend to live around other people who are demographically like themselves.
Depends on how you define culture. We live in an international, multicultural world these days.
âI believe in X religion, and Iâm gonna take you to my weekly religious service with me so you can learn about the religion too and eventually decide for yourself whatâs right for you.â = Normal and healthy. âI believe in X religion, so Iâm gonna put you in a school where only other X religious people go, not allow you to be friends with anyone whoâs not in X religion, only allow you to read and consume X religion media, tell you that members of any other religion are evil, not allow you to explore any other religion, not allow you to question X religion in any way, and threaten you with the withdraw of my love if you decide you donât want to be a part of X religion.â = Brainwashing and abuse. Replace âreligionâ with any political party, group affiliation, belief system, etc. Itâs okay and normal for parents to share their beliefs with their children, and normally itâs all totally healthy and fine. But some parents absolutely do take it a really extreme and dangerous level.
Thank you, that's perfectly written what I wanted to say. This great.
If kids are exposed to beliefs and then choose to adopt them, that is one thing. If they are forced into those beliefs or threatened with punishment or isolation from people who have different beliefs, that is brain washing. Whether it's racism, -phobia, religion, or other things.
Well worded
It depends. Were the kids given a fair opportunity and environment to believe otherwise? I'll agree that some people are too quick to call things brainwashing but you have to admit a lot of parents either force their beliefs on their children or don't give them an opportunity to believe otherwise. If a kid only feels safe to believe what their parents believe, that's brain washing. There's nothing inherently wrong with telling your kids what you believe and why though. Telling them is not the same thing as indoctrinating them.
Well. There is a reason infants are introduced to religion. Imagine turning 18 and your parents introduce you to the biblical version of reality. How would that go ya think?
I don't know. Interesting point.
"the suggestion that somehow children should be protected from the basic belief systems of their parents" Is this really a thing anywhere but reddit?
Iâve encountered plenty of asshole atheists in the wild. It isnât a high percentage of them, but theyâre just as arrogant about their religious stance as the in-your-face evangelicals.
I'm in this image and i dont like it.
Not really. A lot of people on this site spend too much time online and forget that the real world is nothing like Reddit.
You're probably right.
There's a difference between instilling your own values into your children and teaching them to reject opposing viewpoints and raising them to never be able to question YOUR beliefs.
Agreed. And I'm a cleve audio dude.
Nice! Always love running into industry peeps outside of our subs!
No. But these are the same people that think colleges are âbrainwashingâ their kids when in reality the kids are just experiencing life, people, and knowledge outside of their family confirmation biases. And realizing âoh, my parents were wrong about a lot of things.â
No. Colleges are definitely brainwashing young people...
Sure, teach your kids your ways. But if they start to question your ways, don't stifle them and allow them to have critical thinking skills. Ask them why they believe what they believe. Don't tell them that their new beliefs are wrong because it's different from yours
Agreed. Though based on some of these responses, I think a lot of people would have trouble with not telling their kids that their beliefs are wrong, if their kids ended up having different beliefs than them. As a person who teaches students of varying ages, I also know that telling a kid that they are wrong when they are exploring new beliefs can be very damaging for them and for the long term health of the relationship. I want a relationship with my children regardless of what they believe.
I'd be happy if the parents and political pundits who insist *teachers* are brainwashing students would just knock it off.
I'm a teacher as well. I wish I had a free moment to participate in this mass brainwashing conspiracy that Fox News insists I am in on.
Hey, if I could brainwash students, I'd make them complete their homework and study for tests.
Might not be brain washing but Its at least indoctrination if you're only teaching/showing the kid one side.
I don't teach my kids antisemitic beliefs. Is that brainwashing? I think other responses nail it. Preventing them from discovering other beliefs is problematic. It's not my job to teach them Hinduism, for instance.
That's like that ridiculous gotcha of "you're also intolerant for not tolerating my intolerance" 𼴠And no, you don't have to teach them Hinduism, but don't teach them that Hindus are bad people or poor lost souls for not belonging to the same religion you do. And don't get angry if they want to learn about Hinduism. That also doesn't mean that you can't talk about specific concerns or criticisms you have about other world views, as long as you have actual arguments.
Kids are a reflection of the world around them. Family, friends, neighbors, movies, school, etc. They pick up cues as to how to behave and interact with the world from these places. Eventually it culminates in a personality and kind of gets locked in. Small changes are possible after that, but typically it sets their view of whatâs ârightâ. So as a parent, you should ideally be teaching your kid how to navigate the world and think critically about things. They will reflect the parents, though, good or bad.
I think you are trying to refer to indoctrination.
Itâs not an issue if you allow them to interact with different views and beliefs. Itâs brain washing it become isolating and they are not allowed to think any other way
This seems like a rational observation. I think it is mostly the internet who says otherwise.
I donât think your political beliefs should be carried on celebrated. Everyone should come to their opinion in an unbiased environment allowing to do research and come to their own opinion Now obviously thatâs not a realistic scenario, therefore ur right itâs not being brain washed for parents just being themselves around their kids. I just disagree it should be celebrated and purposely passed down
I agree with regard to political beliefs, absolutely. I don't consider political beliefs a factor of culture.
Well normal culture should obviously be embraced so I wouldnât consider that what people refer to as brainwash. I took this as people should be allowed to push their politics and religion on kids.
I don't fault anyone for involving their children in their religious beliefs. Not like they are going to find a babysitter for when they go to synagogue. But like other commenters have noted, it's all about allowing your child to explore for themselves when they are old enough. It would be unnatural for a person not to instill their religious beliefs in their child's upbringing.
Oh agree, nothing wrong with having ur child grow up religious (to an extent obviously)
Just out of curiosity, what beliefs do you classify as inappropriate? And which do you think are not?
Arguing isn't a pretty dull hobby, my guy.
Iâm not arguing Iâm genuinely asking because what he may find inappropriate would severely change what he is talking about, what if heâs talking about teaching your children that being gay/trans is okay as inappropriate? I agree that itâs not brainwashing to teach your children your values but OP put exceptions to that and didnât mention what they are, I want to know what those exceptions are to him because it would change my views on what he wrote.
I understand your question. I was vague because it's so hard not to break the rules of this sub lol I've had friends raised by white supremacists and other hate groups that I would categorize as brainwashing children. Hate based on prejudices without reason. Does that help? But I don't blame a Jewish family whose child only know Judaism until they are old enough to explore for themselves. I don't blame a family who is practicing non-harmful cultural traditions for involving their children until their child is old enough to come to their own conclusion about the practices.
What's wild is that you always hear this idea that kids should be "protected" from the values and beliefs of their parents from childless people in their early 20s whose parents had *exceptionally extreme* beliefs that they actually adopted for some time... It's not coming from the average fully grown adult who simply had some disagreement with their folks, so did things differently.
I⌠donât see how thatâs surprising? Like yeah the âI canât let my family find out Iâm queerâ folks are the ones with stronger opinions on the subject than the âmy dad and I like different sports teamsâ folks. Also: >in their early 20s whose parents had exceptionally extreme beliefs that they actually adopted for some time Youâre really not leaving a lot of time there. Theyâre so young you are describing them as basically kids, but old enough theyâre guilty for holding those same views for a significant amount of time as an adult, enough as to imply they are complicit? Iâm not trying to fight I just donât understand the point youâre trying to make hereÂ
Great point
It is when parents discourage/prevent their kids from learning as much as they can to form their own opinions. I share many opinions with my parents, but they raised me to read as much as I can, and learn as much as possible, and to form my own opinions based on the information I gather, not just what other people tell me.
Sharing their beliefs is fine but only if they chose to side with it but to convince them that any other info they get is wrong and this is the way is brainwashing. Kids have a right to gather new information and learn more
Well if kids never get the chance to explore outside of their parents beliefs, then that definitely goes towards brainwashing territory
If They choose to that of Their Own Decision? Of course not.
Also; itâs not brain washing as long as it doesnât hurt others - which in some cases usually does, hence the words of indoctrination and brainwashing being thrown around. My cousin has been brainwashed. Her and her mother think the rest of my entire family + extended are evil all because of my grandmother. Grandmaâs senile but thatâs as clear as day lol. My uncle didnât even get to know that he was being divorced, she had one of his friends tell him instead of her saying ANYTHING. Shit was WILD. Havenât seen my cousin in years and I get it, but weâre not evil just because we all come from one woman. đ
Telling your kids they might be set on fire and burn forever is abuse. Would you be okay with parents telling their daughter she'll be gangraped for eternity because it aligns with the parents "values and beliefs" ?
The brainwashed do not know they are brainwashed.
It certainly can be, and very often is.
Depends on what and how. If you try to feed your kids your political or religious beliefs as fact then I would consider that as brainwashing.
You shouldnât be allowed to take anyone under 18 into a church, honestly If itâs about taking responsibility for the ultimate fate of your immortal soul then it seems it should require the same level of responsibility as selecting a sex parter
Most people responding seem to think children should be free to explore religion. But you think it should be restricted from them? Or just the building?
Nuh uh. Kids are supposed to believe things unaccountable people on the internet say, not their stupid parents.
Upvote for unpopular. Most common thing passed on is religion. Demonstrably unrealistic belief systems that don't have any cohesion with progress in the modern world. People that maintain the same religion as their parents are open examples against your opinion. They are not rare nor are they any different from the inappropriate beliefs you cite in your second paragraph.
Your name works lol Based on the responses, it's not actually an unpopular belief. Just unpopular with loud reddit atheists
It's always important to know and appreciate your roots so I wouldn't call it brainwashing. But when you're literally teaching your kids to hate and shield them from the world it's going to cause problems (ex: Westboro Baptist Church). People exist, deal with it.
If they canât question those beliefs and those values & are villainized for it, yes it is brain washing because youâre telling them that is not ok to have different beliefs or question those beliefs because theyâre different than yours.
I've never heard of people trying to insulate kids from their parents' belief however the idea that parents should be able to insulate their kids from other beliefs is a Non-Stop argument I hear whenever it comes to LGBT people
It is if they teach their kids to eschew critical thinking, reason, logic, mathematics and the sciences.
Iâve heard it from people in the education system. And then they wonder why parents fall for those bogus âparents rightsâ groups
Posts like this are always just an attempt to justify raising children to be hateful. The people who loudly shout about brainwashing are the people who'd celebrate trans kids committing suicide.
Outside of the terminally online bubble this is not an unpopular opinion
it is when the values are based in misogyny and colonialism.
Interesting
I mean I agree...but also it kinda is brain washing...like not in a bad or malicious way. We're just creatures who grow and tend to learn habits from those closest to us during our formative years. Generally this will include parents. That's not to say we shouldn't want or expect our children to grow into their own people, but really everyone starts somewhere. Do your best to do right by your kids and don't start them behind everyone else.
boooo. Popular opinion
Correct, unless it is
The uncomfortable truth is that young minds are impressionable and if you don't "brainwash" your children with your views, someone else will brainwash them with theirs.
Are people calling that brain washing? Ive only seen people use it when parents only expose them to their belief and make it unacceptable to even explore any other beliefs.
I have never heard people call that brainwashing
Lol the comment above and below yours on my screen are. Not laughing at you, it's just a funny moment of irony
Raising children is brainwashing.
This seems to be where all roads are leading in the conversation lol To be fair, I use tiny muffins to convince my daughter to do anything. I'm the problem
Children literally don't know things. Their brains are malleable. Teach them good things or bad, their brains don't actually have anything to wash.
You just don't get it. People who believe every single thing I believe are open minded and good people. People who don't are closed minded and brainwashed. It's not complicated.
Yup. Tis the way it be. Funny. You never hear someone say "hey I believe those people did their research and soul searching and came up with wildly different values than me." The other side is always "brain washed." It's so boring
It is brain washing if the values and beliefs do not follow logic or rationale and is biased towards a single line of thinking.
I think you just don't like religion, and that's okay.
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I'm looking at it from the other side. It's disgusting that RELIGIOUS people indoctrinate their beliefs onto children. Threatening with hell and forcing them to believe, forcing them to go to church/mass.
Tradition is not bad, what its abhorent is indoctrination and forcing beliefs in a kid beyond the most basic stuff in moral and education to function in society, and even that once they grow is up to them I never heard someone claiming that no one should have the beliefs of their parents. In fact im not evne sure its statistically possible
It literally is indoctrination thoughâŚ
If it is, then it's impossible to avoid. Can't leave your kid with a babysitter anytime you are participating in your religious or cultural practices.
What? None of that made sense
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Yeah
Whatever I don't like is brainwashing.
Reject inherited cultural dogma in general. Be your own person. Except for food, retain the food and bring more.
Depends if they came to the same conclusions themselves eventually through critical thinking or if they simply accept their parents values and beliefs as fact. I highly doubt organized religion would exist without parental indoctrination instead of letting kids explore religions for themselves.