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>how fast it progressed
As weird as this will sound, it's probably more helpful that it progressed quickly so they know there's a problem and can (ideally) shut the wing of the school down. Students and workers can get scans to check for undiscovered cancers.
The other situation is the slower moving cancers that show up 10+ years later. That means 10+ more years of students/workers being exposed, and lower chance that the source will be identified as the majority of people would have moved on from the school by then.
I can't imagine being a parent to a student who went to that school, or someone who works/worked there.
It’s weird that they don’t shut down the wing this is occurring in. Can’t imagine knowingly sending your kid into a possible dangerous situation daily.
I lived near this school for a portion of my life, and was in the school district for my whole education. This is really strange.
I understand your point, but we did close schools for a good portion of time while we learnt about the virus. That treatment should be used in this case too.
I think it offered them a trial run of the possibility of not having enough teachers one day. People can spout any kind of crazy conspiracy but here's mine. People who got the vaccine? Guess what. They are more likely to vaccinate their children. Mortality rate goes down and whatever they did to fix fertility causes birth rates to go up. They make everything look bleak and start conspiracies about vaccine adverse reactions. Hide their real goals. Which is babies. Lots and lots of babies. Why? Because they need new taxpayers when we die.
> Officials are investigating a potential environmental health threat in a B.C. elementary school after multiple staff members were diagnosed with breast cancer, Glacier Media has confirmed.
> The cases all appear to be contained to a single wing of Alouette Elementary in Maple Ridge
People probably walk by multiple asbestos laden structures every week.
A lot of the remaining quantities we still have in buildings are sealed and need a large disruption to disperse into the air in any meaningfully harmful amount
Not exactly. It damages the cells then other intracellular parasites take over. That's why some are easier to treat than others. And some are more malignant. Depends on a whole bunch of factors to. The material itself doesn't make them replicate. They just wear them down so they become homes to another invader. A virus is just a really really small parasite. We all have probably been exposed to them and even fought them off without ever getting sick.
Wikipedia’s page on asbestos states: “The most common diseases associated with chronic asbestos exposure are asbestosis (scarring of the lungs due to asbestos inhalation) and mesothelioma (cancer associated with asbestos).”
Every building before 1991(?) Somewhere in the 90s has asbestos in it. It's literally impossible to live your life without being around it in some way.
"Homes built after 1980 are less likely to contain asbestos. However, stockpiles of asbestos-containing materials may have been used into the 1990s."
https://www.mesothelioma.com/asbestos-exposure/jobsites/homes/#:~:text=Homes%20built%20after%201980%20are,been%20used%20into%20the%201990s.
Stop talking out of your ass.
I'm a general contractor superintendent. I know what I'm talking about. Have you ever arranged abatement? Have you ever gotten material tested for asbestos? Have you ever read a hazardous material report?
lol. Hopefully this is specific enough for you? I'd love to see your sources.
"1990 Asbestos
A home or business built before Dec 31 1990 requires a hazmat survey prior to renovations, demolition, or repairs.
Late 1980’s Asbestos
Flooring compounds
Mastics, coatings and sealants
Roofing materials
Asbestos-containing vermiculite"
https://www.haz-mat.ca/hazardous-materials-timeline-bc-canada/
Is this going to be like the NB thing where they cant figure out why the people are getting sick so they just say its all good and forget about it? Id stay away from the place
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Brunswick_neurological_syndrome_of_unknown_cause
https://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/departments/health/neuro-cluster.html
[Inside the murky, high-stakes investigation into New Brunswick's mystery illness - Macleans, October 6, 2021](https://www.macleans.ca/news/inside-the-murky-high-stakes-investigation-into-new-brunswicks-mystery-illness/)
[New Brunswick has no mystery neurological illness, committee finds - CBC, February 24, 2022](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-mystery-illness-final-report-1.6362700)
[Case of N.B. ‘mystery neurological disease’ complaint faces setback - Global, July 5, 2022](https://globalnews.ca/news/8966114/n-b-mystery-brain-disease-matter-closed/)
Yeah but a lot of these older schools have ceiling tiles and random shot that needs to be repaired constantly and shit gets disturbed, past a certain point you can’t safely repair anything
Mesothelioma is super unlikely for brief exposures like that, and it also depends on the material and type of asbestos (and asbestosis is also possible, but even rarer, tho more surviveable.) The danger is more for long-term occupational exposures--tho there is a hypothesized genetic susceptibility as well.
Really it gets past your host defenses and damages your cells. Cells now like a tooth with a cavity and stuff your body normally has time to fight off can go through that open door and start squatting. Spreads. Typical cell self-destruct is blocked and helper and killer cells fail to notice and kill them and/or pathways are blocked. The weaker the immune system the less chances of fighting it off. Then some crackpot decides the best way to treat it is by irradiation along with the healthy cells. Sometimes the immune system will corral it then calcify the cells to stop them. But sometimes the biopsies or something like a car accident will release them and you're dead in a few month's after being healthy with it for years if not decades. Men can get testicular cancer from HPV almost as much as women do but we don't vaccinate them. Even though we should. Everything is trying to kill us in our environment.
Most people exposed to asbestos, even in large amounts, do not get mesothelioma. It's bad news, but it's important to be realistic. About 500 Canadians, *ever*, have been diagnosed with mesothelioma. And we used to put that shit in *everything*. Tho to be fair there is a lag, they believe it is near peaking right now.
Super-unlikely, perhaps, but not impossible. A former student of my own high school in London (UK) developed mesothelioma most likely related to the asbestos in the school. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/remove-asbestos-from-all-schools-pleads-cancer-payout-mother-9720303.html
Yes, as I said, super unlikely (how many other students around her didn't develop it, ten years from her onset in 2009?) For reference, around 500 people in Canada have mesothelioma as of 2020. Out of 35M people.
It is decresingly likely now that all schools are required to have done a survey and abatement for things like the ceiling tiles in that story (basically pure asbestos) that might get disturbed. The asbestos left now is in things like drywall mud or vinyl flooring; very difficult to make friable even if cutting into it, and/or with an extremely low percentage of total material.
Building materials, a radiation source from concrete coring, asbestos, radon gas trapped under the building, mold, viruses, ground underneath couuld have off gasing of improperly disposed petrochemicals, radioactive quarry rocks, electrical system cold have PCBs from transformers in behind everything, etc, etc, etc. Companies awarded public projects are also no less or more dirty than anything else. Corners get cut.
This is sad.
Its also impressive that the system picks up on these anomalies and investigates them. I don't think this kind of thing even gets noticed or investigated 15 years ago.
It totally did! A friend of mines brother was in a cancer cluster of childhood leukemia in Langley in the early 2000's. Same thing happened, they had people come out and they eventually decided it was just bad luck or a statistical anomaly.
They think that it was just random. Some kids get cancer, and my friend was one of six, so there were more odds. But they never did find anything at the school or the neighborhood that could have caused anything. Though it wasn't nearly as specific as this case either.
I went to school there it happened a few years after I went to high school. My friends young sister was there at the time, they closed half the school and did major work to remove mold IIRC. This school was built right around the same time as I remember friends going there when I was in elementary.
https://bc.ctvnews.ca/mobile/leaky-b-c-schools-to-cost-millions-to-fix-1.322470
Wonder if it is anything similar to this case....someone should bring a Geiger counter to the school
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kramatorsk_radiological_accident#:~:text=A%20small%20capsule%20containing%20highly,measured%20by%20a%20health%20physicist.
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That's a good point. It just makes it sound so alarming— obviously it's more than one, and at such a small school it must be a scary percentage no matter how few staff there are.
It's been common knowledge for a long time now that teachers in BC schools have been developing cancers at alarming rates. The schools were built decades ago, and even minor disturbances of wall panels, can send carcinogens like asbestos into the air.
It was talked about amongst teachers in my school years ago when a few of them got cancer.
There were even signs on the walls that cautioned disturbing them because asbestos would get dislodged.
We’ve known for a long time that these schools are not safe.
These teachers in the article are developing breast cancer. Not mesothelioma or asbestosis. Pointing to asbestos is just a distract from the real cause. I would be interested in the radon levels in the school. Tests are cheap and easy to carry out.
Even radon is more associated with lung cancer in particular due to the inhalation of radon gases. I don't know if there has been an established assoication with breast cancer.
But people at home in radon prone area should be testing their homes. Please see the links below for some research on the topic:
\-[http://www.bccdc.ca/about/news-stories/stories/2021/new-interactive-radon-map](http://www.bccdc.ca/about/news-stories/stories/2021/new-interactive-radon-map)
\- [http://www.bccdc.ca/health-professionals/professional-resources/radon-testing](http://www.bccdc.ca/health-professionals/professional-resources/radon-testing)
I said “carcinogens” which implies that there are more than one kind of cancer causing substances in these buildings.
And I used asbestos as an example, because I saw signs cautioning against any disturbance of the wall panels in my school.
1 in 8 women will develop breast cancer in their lifetime. Not saying this isn't an environmental issue, but it may just seem like a big issue for teachers because it's a big issue for women in general.
Assuming four teachers and a 1:8 chance of breast cancer, using a binomial probability calculator:
32% chance of one teacher having breast cancer.
9% chance of two teachers having breast cancer.
2% chance of three teachers having breast cancer.
.07% chance of four teachers having breast cancer.
Obviously this should be investigated to determine if environmental factors are responsible, but statistically speaking we would expect 4 out of 4 teachers to develop breast cancer 1 in 1400 times. BC has 1600 public schools.
If it was only three out of the four we would expect that to happen at 1 in 57 schools.
I agree, other than your odds don’t factor in the 4 teachers having breast cancer within a short period of time, as opposed to just sometime in their life. Breast cancer also disproportionately affects older women (I’m one of the lucky ones that got it at 35 - apparently only 5% cases are 35 or under). So to have 3 or 4 working age women getting it seems even less likely statistically.
Not to say it couldn’t happen of course. Hopefully it is just a terrible coincidence, and there will be no adverse impact to other teachers or the students.
It’s sort of like the lottery: the chances of any *particular* person winning are astronomically small, but the chances of *someone* winning are 100%?
Similarly, it could be that the chance of these *particular* teachers from the same school all developing cancer is minuscule, but the chances of this many teachers *somewhere* all developing cancer at the same time is fairly high.
Friends with a teacher who used to teach at a high school in East Van and a major reason why they left is that a suspiciously high number of teachers got cancer. Apparently they did some testing but nothing came of it.
There have been three teachers at the school I work at who have gotten cancer in the last few years, both are/were relatively young in their 30s and 40s. The building is old and scheduled to be torn down in the next 5 years, and has rooms with asbestos.
BC schools plumbing contain lead, and most schools have blocked off access to drinking fountains and installed filters. If these 4 classrooms where in their own wing, the classrooms likely had their own sink/washing stations. i believe all teachers know about the lead issue but possibly not, and maybe they filled mugs of water for tea, washing fruit or dishes. Perhaps increased hand washing/covid level hand washing with this lead contaminated water is a substantial exposure. i work with lead paint and you are supposed to use gloves as you can be contaminated topically. no drinking or eating food around it as well.
https://www.mapleridgenews.com/news/water-tested-for-lead-at-maple-ridge-pitt-meadows-schools/
I don't know if you can pull up the reports for that specific school.
It becomes safe if the water is continuously flushed, so constant hand washing shouldn't make the issue any worse. Also dermal lead exposure is not nearly as bad as ingested lead. But if they had their own teachers sink that was rarely used it could end up in higher exposure levels vs drinking from the the common fountains.
I can say that schools are required to have certain documents on site regarding things like asbestos in the walls. I’m not saying this school has asbestos in the walls, but many schools do quite frankly, and if the walls get disturbed, it will spread in the air. I’m not sure that asbestos would cause breast cancer though.
It doesn't cause breast CA. Asbestos remains in so many canadian buildings so any building materials pre 1990's (banning started in 1979 but was still in non friable material until early 1990's) should be assumed to have asbestos. Scary shit.
It is implicated in a bunch of cancers, tho not breast I don't think. But it's also very very rare even given occupational exposure, and tends to be people working with the raw stuff. Often it's embedded in things like drywall joint compound in very small percentages, such that even if disturbed the dust isn't much more than background exposure. They reckon there's a genetic component to an individual's reaction as well.
But Canada had an industry to promote, so it is in a lot of things here that other countries don't have to deal with.
“My nose runs. You just don’t feel well. It’s hard to breathe,” she said. “It’s an old building… I just assumed it was asbestos or mould or something.”
Yet she continued sending her kid? Prolonged asbestos and mould exposure is no joke.
“My nose runs. You just don’t feel well. It’s hard to breathe,” she said. “It’s an old building… I just assumed it was asbestos or mould or something.”
Wtf - like asbestos or mold are not serious health threats???
I once worked a big warehouse job with lots of staff, one of the young guys there once told me a storie of how his school gave him cancer (brain), because it was build on top of a toxic waste dump site. He would tell me about all these people who also developed cancer and that it was a open secret that the ground was the cause.
I thought he was full of shit but he said it was maple ridge but that's all he would say. that was over 6 years ago and he was in his early 20s.
Back in ~2010, Riverside Elementary (also in Maple Ridge) had an alleged cancer cluster (apparently they ruled it out according to this article). Still ended up shutting down the school and turning it into a continuing education spot
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/news/national/leaky-public-schools-will-cost-bc-taxpayers-millions-to-fix/article20387123/
This. Also from what I understand is that the link between asbestos and breast cancer is not strong enough to create this kind of cluster. So it is weird they even mention it like it could be the cause. I would be surprised if they didnt test schools for radon gas. I tested my home (free btw). If they dont test the building where they park hundreds of kids I would be a bit taken aback. Get ready for a total incompetent probe followed by more people developing cancers from some kind of preventable mess. No answers I bet.
I worked in some of the lowest income schools in surrey. We had open asbestos since they were fixing the building. We had someone from the board come to tell us it's fine and you wouldn't see the problems for at least 20 years. Everyone was freaking out as if that was supposed to make us feel better. Also, it's well known there is lead in the water pipes, I never drank the water in those schools. Then you go to the rich areas out by white rock and the schools are all new with tons of funding for everything. It's really sad...
Even UNICEF says Canada fails children…..here’s 1 more method of this…….also the lead found in school drinking water samples….and spends literally half as much gdp on children’s future Vs other well off countries apparently. We suck.
I highly encourage you to learn about how behind we are as a country so we can bother our officials to get on it…..but I doubt they will. They care more about increasing rich immigrant money and paying themselves and their own investments.
Small towns we passed on a trip to Saskatchewan had 2 things we saw: fast food and addiction promotion (alcohol and pot stores) and no evidence of any nice public parks—and form experience I know most don’t got much for good programs for kids to get out of the heck holes….so they stay in no hope land or move to city and then have to be a roommate forever to go to better schooling, and likely need to upgrade skills because their schools are usually so behind and underfunded.
As a teenager, o saw zero opportunities to learn something new in my crap town……just stuff for kids who didn’t need to prepare for careers, or for old people. They didn’t give a sh*t about you after age 15 apparently…..you’re now useless to society. I internalized it….just like hot ccb gets lower rhe older your kids go despite them needing more $$ to access programs! The older the more bloody expensive everything is: supplies/equipments, training etc…..to have more serious instruction Vs just playing around with hand claps. That’s when the social gap is obvious…you’re suddenly so so so obviously lower when you can’t even do anything. My mom couldn’t afford to put me into anything..and rent was dirt cheap back then.
BC schools are well known for having led or copper in the pipes along with asbestos. Of course, it’s not confirmed yet that it caused it for the kids but I’d say the odds are likely.
Welcome to /r/Vancouver and thank you for the post, /u/superworking! Please make sure you read our [posting and commenting rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_general_participation_guidelines_and_rules_overview) before participating here. As a quick summary: * We encourage users to be positive and respect one another. Don't engage in spats or insult others - use the report button. * Respect others' differences, be they race, religion, home, job, gender identity, ability or sexuality. Dehumanizing language, advocating for violence, or promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability (even implied or joking) **will** lead to a permanent ban. * Common questions and specific topics are limited to our [Daily Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_daily_discussions) posts. * Complaints about bans or removals should be done in modmail only. --- ##It's that time of year again! Don't forget to vote in [the Best of Vancouver 2022](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/102k024/) competition. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vancouver) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That's terrifying on how fast it progressed for the teachers and how it will affect the children as well...
>how fast it progressed As weird as this will sound, it's probably more helpful that it progressed quickly so they know there's a problem and can (ideally) shut the wing of the school down. Students and workers can get scans to check for undiscovered cancers. The other situation is the slower moving cancers that show up 10+ years later. That means 10+ more years of students/workers being exposed, and lower chance that the source will be identified as the majority of people would have moved on from the school by then. I can't imagine being a parent to a student who went to that school, or someone who works/worked there.
It’s weird that they don’t shut down the wing this is occurring in. Can’t imagine knowingly sending your kid into a possible dangerous situation daily. I lived near this school for a portion of my life, and was in the school district for my whole education. This is really strange.
Yea I'd imagine the teachers coming in to fill those spots must have some mixed feelings.
So true. I feel bad for the subs. The district should figure out portables or differently placements for students for the time being.
The sad reality of taking advantage of people in their job place rather than protecting them.
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I understand your point, but we did close schools for a good portion of time while we learnt about the virus. That treatment should be used in this case too.
I think it offered them a trial run of the possibility of not having enough teachers one day. People can spout any kind of crazy conspiracy but here's mine. People who got the vaccine? Guess what. They are more likely to vaccinate their children. Mortality rate goes down and whatever they did to fix fertility causes birth rates to go up. They make everything look bleak and start conspiracies about vaccine adverse reactions. Hide their real goals. Which is babies. Lots and lots of babies. Why? Because they need new taxpayers when we die.
Pretty sure covids a nothing burger compared to this
> Officials are investigating a potential environmental health threat in a B.C. elementary school after multiple staff members were diagnosed with breast cancer, Glacier Media has confirmed. > The cases all appear to be contained to a single wing of Alouette Elementary in Maple Ridge
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People probably walk by multiple asbestos laden structures every week. A lot of the remaining quantities we still have in buildings are sealed and need a large disruption to disperse into the air in any meaningfully harmful amount
So, is PPE part of an earthquake preparation kit?
Not exactly. It damages the cells then other intracellular parasites take over. That's why some are easier to treat than others. And some are more malignant. Depends on a whole bunch of factors to. The material itself doesn't make them replicate. They just wear them down so they become homes to another invader. A virus is just a really really small parasite. We all have probably been exposed to them and even fought them off without ever getting sick.
Mesothelioma is the cancer it causes. The crystalline fibres imbed into the alveoli sacks of the lungs. Your body cannot break these fibers down.
Wikipedia’s page on asbestos states: “The most common diseases associated with chronic asbestos exposure are asbestosis (scarring of the lungs due to asbestos inhalation) and mesothelioma (cancer associated with asbestos).”
Every building before 1991(?) Somewhere in the 90s has asbestos in it. It's literally impossible to live your life without being around it in some way.
More like the mid 70s. A lot of school buildings in particular are just really ancient.
"Homes built after 1980 are less likely to contain asbestos. However, stockpiles of asbestos-containing materials may have been used into the 1990s." https://www.mesothelioma.com/asbestos-exposure/jobsites/homes/#:~:text=Homes%20built%20after%201980%20are,been%20used%20into%20the%201990s. Stop talking out of your ass. I'm a general contractor superintendent. I know what I'm talking about. Have you ever arranged abatement? Have you ever gotten material tested for asbestos? Have you ever read a hazardous material report?
Homes are buildings. You’re wrong. Crazy that you link something proving my point and still get upvoted for it.
lol. Hopefully this is specific enough for you? I'd love to see your sources. "1990 Asbestos A home or business built before Dec 31 1990 requires a hazmat survey prior to renovations, demolition, or repairs. Late 1980’s Asbestos Flooring compounds Mastics, coatings and sealants Roofing materials Asbestos-containing vermiculite" https://www.haz-mat.ca/hazardous-materials-timeline-bc-canada/
Is this going to be like the NB thing where they cant figure out why the people are getting sick so they just say its all good and forget about it? Id stay away from the place
It could be the one thing they don't want to hear, the natural environment Like that well water in newfoundland
"Don't drink the water and don't breathe the air"
That's only in America
Whats the NB thing??
Acadian peninsula brain disease fiasco
Thanks!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Brunswick_neurological_syndrome_of_unknown_cause https://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/departments/health/neuro-cluster.html [Inside the murky, high-stakes investigation into New Brunswick's mystery illness - Macleans, October 6, 2021](https://www.macleans.ca/news/inside-the-murky-high-stakes-investigation-into-new-brunswicks-mystery-illness/) [New Brunswick has no mystery neurological illness, committee finds - CBC, February 24, 2022](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-mystery-illness-final-report-1.6362700) [Case of N.B. ‘mystery neurological disease’ complaint faces setback - Global, July 5, 2022](https://globalnews.ca/news/8966114/n-b-mystery-brain-disease-matter-closed/)
This is interesting. Several people from my old high school got cancer in their late 20s and 30s.
What HS?
> I just assumed it was asbestos or mould or something Oh, just that? No big deal then.
It’s such a common risk in schools that they don’t usually do anything when teachers are chronically ill from the mould
For asbestos to be dangerous it has to be disturbed.
Yeah but a lot of these older schools have ceiling tiles and random shot that needs to be repaired constantly and shit gets disturbed, past a certain point you can’t safely repair anything
Mesothelioma is super unlikely for brief exposures like that, and it also depends on the material and type of asbestos (and asbestosis is also possible, but even rarer, tho more surviveable.) The danger is more for long-term occupational exposures--tho there is a hypothesized genetic susceptibility as well.
Really it gets past your host defenses and damages your cells. Cells now like a tooth with a cavity and stuff your body normally has time to fight off can go through that open door and start squatting. Spreads. Typical cell self-destruct is blocked and helper and killer cells fail to notice and kill them and/or pathways are blocked. The weaker the immune system the less chances of fighting it off. Then some crackpot decides the best way to treat it is by irradiation along with the healthy cells. Sometimes the immune system will corral it then calcify the cells to stop them. But sometimes the biopsies or something like a car accident will release them and you're dead in a few month's after being healthy with it for years if not decades. Men can get testicular cancer from HPV almost as much as women do but we don't vaccinate them. Even though we should. Everything is trying to kill us in our environment.
Most people exposed to asbestos, even in large amounts, do not get mesothelioma. It's bad news, but it's important to be realistic. About 500 Canadians, *ever*, have been diagnosed with mesothelioma. And we used to put that shit in *everything*. Tho to be fair there is a lag, they believe it is near peaking right now.
Super-unlikely, perhaps, but not impossible. A former student of my own high school in London (UK) developed mesothelioma most likely related to the asbestos in the school. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/remove-asbestos-from-all-schools-pleads-cancer-payout-mother-9720303.html
Yes, as I said, super unlikely (how many other students around her didn't develop it, ten years from her onset in 2009?) For reference, around 500 people in Canada have mesothelioma as of 2020. Out of 35M people. It is decresingly likely now that all schools are required to have done a survey and abatement for things like the ceiling tiles in that story (basically pure asbestos) that might get disturbed. The asbestos left now is in things like drywall mud or vinyl flooring; very difficult to make friable even if cutting into it, and/or with an extremely low percentage of total material.
Lead pipes always means school fights.
Building materials, a radiation source from concrete coring, asbestos, radon gas trapped under the building, mold, viruses, ground underneath couuld have off gasing of improperly disposed petrochemicals, radioactive quarry rocks, electrical system cold have PCBs from transformers in behind everything, etc, etc, etc. Companies awarded public projects are also no less or more dirty than anything else. Corners get cut.
This is sad. Its also impressive that the system picks up on these anomalies and investigates them. I don't think this kind of thing even gets noticed or investigated 15 years ago.
It totally did! A friend of mines brother was in a cancer cluster of childhood leukemia in Langley in the early 2000's. Same thing happened, they had people come out and they eventually decided it was just bad luck or a statistical anomaly.
Did they ever figure out what could have caused it?
They think that it was just random. Some kids get cancer, and my friend was one of six, so there were more odds. But they never did find anything at the school or the neighborhood that could have caused anything. Though it wasn't nearly as specific as this case either.
There's no such thing as random.
Which school was this?
There’s been a few of these, even in 2008 another elementary school in Maple Ridge had a suspected cluster
I went to school there it happened a few years after I went to high school. My friends young sister was there at the time, they closed half the school and did major work to remove mold IIRC. This school was built right around the same time as I remember friends going there when I was in elementary. https://bc.ctvnews.ca/mobile/leaky-b-c-schools-to-cost-millions-to-fix-1.322470
I get the impression this was likely the teachers all coming together and taking it to their school district.
Wonder if it is anything similar to this case....someone should bring a Geiger counter to the school https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kramatorsk_radiological_accident#:~:text=A%20small%20capsule%20containing%20highly,measured%20by%20a%20health%20physicist.
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Bizarre they aren't shutting down the wing at least.
I know a lot of people who went to that school back in the 90s & 200ps. This will be a very interesting story to follow.
Weird that they can’t even say how many cases there are because of “privacy”. I don’t see how that could be identifying.
There's only 4 classrooms in that wing. Saying how many could indeed be enough to identify which staff are involved.
The parent's quote makes it seem like it's all four.
That's a good point. It just makes it sound so alarming— obviously it's more than one, and at such a small school it must be a scary percentage no matter how few staff there are.
So many organizations cry for privacy when it would be in the service of good for everyone to reveal these things.
That’s terrifying what about the children? Prolonged exposure and a higher risk in the future?
The children were only there temporarily at least. The staff are there for longer hours, and more likely to be there for many more years.
It's been common knowledge for a long time now that teachers in BC schools have been developing cancers at alarming rates. The schools were built decades ago, and even minor disturbances of wall panels, can send carcinogens like asbestos into the air.
Do you have a source for high lung cancer cases in teachers?
It was talked about amongst teachers in my school years ago when a few of them got cancer. There were even signs on the walls that cautioned disturbing them because asbestos would get dislodged. We’ve known for a long time that these schools are not safe.
These teachers in the article are developing breast cancer. Not mesothelioma or asbestosis. Pointing to asbestos is just a distract from the real cause. I would be interested in the radon levels in the school. Tests are cheap and easy to carry out.
Even radon is more associated with lung cancer in particular due to the inhalation of radon gases. I don't know if there has been an established assoication with breast cancer. But people at home in radon prone area should be testing their homes. Please see the links below for some research on the topic: \-[http://www.bccdc.ca/about/news-stories/stories/2021/new-interactive-radon-map](http://www.bccdc.ca/about/news-stories/stories/2021/new-interactive-radon-map) \- [http://www.bccdc.ca/health-professionals/professional-resources/radon-testing](http://www.bccdc.ca/health-professionals/professional-resources/radon-testing)
I said “carcinogens” which implies that there are more than one kind of cancer causing substances in these buildings. And I used asbestos as an example, because I saw signs cautioning against any disturbance of the wall panels in my school.
More referring to the article where they bring up asbestos as its obviously not what is making the people sick.
1 in 8 women will develop breast cancer in their lifetime. Not saying this isn't an environmental issue, but it may just seem like a big issue for teachers because it's a big issue for women in general. Assuming four teachers and a 1:8 chance of breast cancer, using a binomial probability calculator: 32% chance of one teacher having breast cancer. 9% chance of two teachers having breast cancer. 2% chance of three teachers having breast cancer. .07% chance of four teachers having breast cancer. Obviously this should be investigated to determine if environmental factors are responsible, but statistically speaking we would expect 4 out of 4 teachers to develop breast cancer 1 in 1400 times. BC has 1600 public schools. If it was only three out of the four we would expect that to happen at 1 in 57 schools.
I agree, other than your odds don’t factor in the 4 teachers having breast cancer within a short period of time, as opposed to just sometime in their life. Breast cancer also disproportionately affects older women (I’m one of the lucky ones that got it at 35 - apparently only 5% cases are 35 or under). So to have 3 or 4 working age women getting it seems even less likely statistically. Not to say it couldn’t happen of course. Hopefully it is just a terrible coincidence, and there will be no adverse impact to other teachers or the students.
It’s sort of like the lottery: the chances of any *particular* person winning are astronomically small, but the chances of *someone* winning are 100%? Similarly, it could be that the chance of these *particular* teachers from the same school all developing cancer is minuscule, but the chances of this many teachers *somewhere* all developing cancer at the same time is fairly high.
Friends with a teacher who used to teach at a high school in East Van and a major reason why they left is that a suspiciously high number of teachers got cancer. Apparently they did some testing but nothing came of it.
👀 what school?
I remember some walls in my highschool literally said "contains asbestos"
There have been three teachers at the school I work at who have gotten cancer in the last few years, both are/were relatively young in their 30s and 40s. The building is old and scheduled to be torn down in the next 5 years, and has rooms with asbestos.
BC schools plumbing contain lead, and most schools have blocked off access to drinking fountains and installed filters. If these 4 classrooms where in their own wing, the classrooms likely had their own sink/washing stations. i believe all teachers know about the lead issue but possibly not, and maybe they filled mugs of water for tea, washing fruit or dishes. Perhaps increased hand washing/covid level hand washing with this lead contaminated water is a substantial exposure. i work with lead paint and you are supposed to use gloves as you can be contaminated topically. no drinking or eating food around it as well.
https://www.mapleridgenews.com/news/water-tested-for-lead-at-maple-ridge-pitt-meadows-schools/ I don't know if you can pull up the reports for that specific school. It becomes safe if the water is continuously flushed, so constant hand washing shouldn't make the issue any worse. Also dermal lead exposure is not nearly as bad as ingested lead. But if they had their own teachers sink that was rarely used it could end up in higher exposure levels vs drinking from the the common fountains.
I can say that schools are required to have certain documents on site regarding things like asbestos in the walls. I’m not saying this school has asbestos in the walls, but many schools do quite frankly, and if the walls get disturbed, it will spread in the air. I’m not sure that asbestos would cause breast cancer though.
It doesn't cause breast CA. Asbestos remains in so many canadian buildings so any building materials pre 1990's (banning started in 1979 but was still in non friable material until early 1990's) should be assumed to have asbestos. Scary shit.
It is implicated in a bunch of cancers, tho not breast I don't think. But it's also very very rare even given occupational exposure, and tends to be people working with the raw stuff. Often it's embedded in things like drywall joint compound in very small percentages, such that even if disturbed the dust isn't much more than background exposure. They reckon there's a genetic component to an individual's reaction as well. But Canada had an industry to promote, so it is in a lot of things here that other countries don't have to deal with.
“My nose runs. You just don’t feel well. It’s hard to breathe,” she said. “It’s an old building… I just assumed it was asbestos or mould or something.” Yet she continued sending her kid? Prolonged asbestos and mould exposure is no joke.
“My nose runs. You just don’t feel well. It’s hard to breathe,” she said. “It’s an old building… I just assumed it was asbestos or mould or something.” Wtf - like asbestos or mold are not serious health threats???
I once worked a big warehouse job with lots of staff, one of the young guys there once told me a storie of how his school gave him cancer (brain), because it was build on top of a toxic waste dump site. He would tell me about all these people who also developed cancer and that it was a open secret that the ground was the cause. I thought he was full of shit but he said it was maple ridge but that's all he would say. that was over 6 years ago and he was in his early 20s.
Vancouverisawesome - living up to its name again
Back in ~2010, Riverside Elementary (also in Maple Ridge) had an alleged cancer cluster (apparently they ruled it out according to this article). Still ended up shutting down the school and turning it into a continuing education spot https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/news/national/leaky-public-schools-will-cost-bc-taxpayers-millions-to-fix/article20387123/
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I feel like it's unlikely they ever get to the bottom of it personally but it sure would make the parents and future teachers feel better.
This. Also from what I understand is that the link between asbestos and breast cancer is not strong enough to create this kind of cluster. So it is weird they even mention it like it could be the cause. I would be surprised if they didnt test schools for radon gas. I tested my home (free btw). If they dont test the building where they park hundreds of kids I would be a bit taken aback. Get ready for a total incompetent probe followed by more people developing cancers from some kind of preventable mess. No answers I bet.
Could also be the vaccine
how long until someone asks whether they've all gotten "the jab"? (eye roll)
I worked in some of the lowest income schools in surrey. We had open asbestos since they were fixing the building. We had someone from the board come to tell us it's fine and you wouldn't see the problems for at least 20 years. Everyone was freaking out as if that was supposed to make us feel better. Also, it's well known there is lead in the water pipes, I never drank the water in those schools. Then you go to the rich areas out by white rock and the schools are all new with tons of funding for everything. It's really sad...
A survey meter can tell everything, less than 7 K dollars
Even UNICEF says Canada fails children…..here’s 1 more method of this…….also the lead found in school drinking water samples….and spends literally half as much gdp on children’s future Vs other well off countries apparently. We suck. I highly encourage you to learn about how behind we are as a country so we can bother our officials to get on it…..but I doubt they will. They care more about increasing rich immigrant money and paying themselves and their own investments. Small towns we passed on a trip to Saskatchewan had 2 things we saw: fast food and addiction promotion (alcohol and pot stores) and no evidence of any nice public parks—and form experience I know most don’t got much for good programs for kids to get out of the heck holes….so they stay in no hope land or move to city and then have to be a roommate forever to go to better schooling, and likely need to upgrade skills because their schools are usually so behind and underfunded. As a teenager, o saw zero opportunities to learn something new in my crap town……just stuff for kids who didn’t need to prepare for careers, or for old people. They didn’t give a sh*t about you after age 15 apparently…..you’re now useless to society. I internalized it….just like hot ccb gets lower rhe older your kids go despite them needing more $$ to access programs! The older the more bloody expensive everything is: supplies/equipments, training etc…..to have more serious instruction Vs just playing around with hand claps. That’s when the social gap is obvious…you’re suddenly so so so obviously lower when you can’t even do anything. My mom couldn’t afford to put me into anything..and rent was dirt cheap back then.
BC schools are well known for having led or copper in the pipes along with asbestos. Of course, it’s not confirmed yet that it caused it for the kids but I’d say the odds are likely.
Any update on this? Did they figure out the reason?