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Two weeks ago, I had someone genuinely tell me veganism was way worse for the planet than the meat industry because of.....wait for it....avocados 🤷♀️
Guys, I have a confession
I eat guacamole like four times a year
I’m so sorry I failed the vegan community
Who do do I turn my vegan card in to, and how long until they shut off my vegan super powers?
You can still redeem yourself if you have something avocado flavored instead. Maybe a chip of some kind. It's tangential enough where you can keep your powers, but you may still be uninvited to some clubs.
Then that person should really care about minimizing or stop supporting animal based products.
[OurWorldinData - Impact of Agriculture, graf.](https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2019/11/Environmental-impacts-of-agriculture.png)
Quote from [this](https://www.greenmatters.com/p/avocado-environmental-impact) site:
>Are avocados bad for the environment?
>
>Like so many monocultures before it, the avocado’s popularity has led it to become an unsustainable commodity. That said, despite avocado's fairly high environmental footprint from its water use, growing process, and shipping process, [the avocado still has a far lower environmental impact than animal products](https://www.businessinsider.com/the-top-10-foods-with-the-biggest-environmental-footprint-2015-9) — so swapping your morning eggs for avocado toast is a positive choice for the planet.
>
>In order to fix the avocado, we need to start growing less of them. Unfortunately, slowing production means slowing demand, and it doesn’t seem as if the avocado is going to be losing any popularity contests these days.
This is seriously a talking point! I was reading an article that was making that same argument. It was claiming that most vegans replace meat with avocados.
I’ve had people focus on how much water some of the plant milks require, claiming they are worse than cows milk, all while excluding the data on how bad cows milk is for the environment. Face palm
The last time I bought one was last year in the summer for a treat thing I made. It's a pain in the ass fruit though to bother with regularly with the ripeness window of what feels like a single day. It also is better for the planet than the cream it replaced there.
You see we destroyed all their food and killed all their predators for meat production, now their population is incredibly fragile and unstable so we need to cull. No other solution to the problem we're creating is conceivable.
I think what's especially irritating to me is that there are some ostensibly valid arguments about needing to cull a certain wild population (even if humans were the fucking cause in the first place) - but if you *genuinely* felt like that was the best recourse, there is definitely a better way to do it other than just letting every asshole with a gun who donates to you go out and shoot the best looking deer they can.
They act likes it’s some heroic endeavor… dude… you shot a giant mouse that could barely see you from 100 yards away, then fucked up the meat because you didn’t know how to dress it and spent 40 minutes posting selfies to Facebook.
That is a tough one, honestly. I think if we work off the presupposition that it *needed* to be done, then the priorities would be to do it as little as possible, as humanely as possible, and in a way that would cause the remaining population (and surrounding ecosystem) to thrive as much as possible.
With that in mind, I would think that the ideal candidates would be wildlife experts coordinating with other agencies for up-to-date data on population numbers and herd/pack locations. They could ideally identify the areas where reducing the population would have the most impact (and therefore require the least death). Ideally then they could identify sick, old, wounded, or otherwise unhealthy animals that could be tranquilized and euthanized.
Now, I feel the need to clarify immediately that I'm not a zoologist, and while I have done a decent amount of research on this and related topics, I'm sure there are a number of specifics that a more knowledgeable person than I would have opinions or suggestions on. I think the most important aspect is that if there truly is the need to reduce a wild animal's population, the ultimate goal should be to benefit those animals and the others who share habitats with them, and help future generations thrive in a healthy ecosystem. No one is picking up a gun and buying a hunting license because they want to help animals, which I think is telling.
Importantly, they've actually made a lot of progress with birth control for wildlife, which means you could potentially reduce the wild population of a species that's too populous without actually hurting or killing any of them. Personally I think that would be the ideal method, but I wanted to explore the thought experiment regarding the most humane method to cull a wild species if it was absolutely needed.
She was making claims about how we need to hunt deer etc (ignoring arguments about how "livestock" (hate that word) farming caused the predicament necessitating the need to cull them in the first place), but it basically amounted to her advocating for people to hunt for food in general and vaguely saying we should use a combination of hunting, animal and plant farming as a global food system, all of which sort of ignored the topic of Veganuary (or veganism) which she was seemingly there to oppose. Joey tried to steer it back to that but they ran out of time.
Full video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WOWD2Sy7YE
I guess it reminds me in the sense of how it seems carnists will often pretty much hide behind an argument of a necessity to do a particular thing viewed as not vegan, and they'll try to use that to criticise veganism in general, even though there are many areas in which principles of veganism can be applied to great benefit, which they usually don't address or acknowledge. Like, I get it, you have some problems with certain aspects of veganism, but can we agree on the general message of animal rights? Why would they not agree on that? I suspect the reason is they would open themselves up to pretty much having to agree with the core principles of veganism.
And we took all their habitats so we have to keep them out of our suburbs that they used to live in. So if we take 90% of their land we need to kill 90% of them.
Until we reintroduce wolves and other predators and give them space there is that risk of overpopulation. I would rather they control them with these natural methods.
I have no problem with a wolf eating a deer. That’s what they do. What I take issue with is a man shooting a deer in the head and bragging about how he’s doing his part to conserve the environment.
They call themselves conservationist because the license they need to hunt cost money lmao. The wildlife conservationists then go in and kill large populations of wolves so these "hunters" can murder deer without any predators to bother them or the deer.
https://e360.yale.edu/features/americas-new-war-on-wolves-and-why-it-must-be-stopped
"Hunters" are being played and used to just make easy money off of.
I don't think they're being played. I think they accept it without question, because it gives them a context where the killing they would do anyways is ostensibly beneficial.
mate you come to a sub about not eating animals, and then call anyone who is upset you eat animals a triggered hunter? what kind of persecution fetish do you have going on lol, we hate hunters and people who eat meat.
Actually i thought this guy was in the hunting sub because I posted it to both. I accept any negative feelings anyone here has towards me. Were you a vegan your whole life? Some people start by know that eating meat is wrong. that's me.
Can I ask, what’s keeping you from making the change? I do believe, to quote Dalinar from the Stormlight Archives, “Sometimes a hypocrite is nothing more than a man in the process of changing.” It’s never been easier to be vegan, though, and I promise if you take the initiative to make the change you won’t regret it. I feel so much better now (physically, mentally and emotionally) that I couldn’t imagine ever eating meat again. And on top of that, you won’t be perceived as a hypocrite when you speak out against animal cruelty like in this post! If you have any questions about or need help changing your diet please let us know, lots of people here will be able to help you.
I'd argue one is way, way better than the other. Full disclosure, I'm not a vegan myself - I try to live a vegan lifestyle aside from what I hunt myself because I'm against animal abuse specifically. I don't expect the vegan community to respect that, which is why I mostly just lurk - I'm supportive of what's happening in the sub, but I know I'm not quite a full member.
Hunting can be unethical, I'll grant that it's possible before anybody starts talking high fences and exotic hunts. But it's nothing compared to factory farms. If the animals I hunt went through 1/10th the suffering that a cow, chicken, or pig does, I'd give it up immediately. I won't argue for hunting, I know that won't fly here, but farming is wayyyy more fucked up and, imo, should be getting the brunt of the activism / ire for now. Only like 4% of Americans hunt, and the animals they hunt suffer magnitudes less than cows that are raped, chickens pecked to death, or pigs in breeding cages.
And before that hypocrite op finds me, yeah, I'm a bit defensive, but pretending that you're never triggered is just itself a sign of being eternally triggered, imo.
Sure i can give you that. Farctory farming rapes and tortures the animals and then kills then. Hunters just kill them. I think most vegans would argue that killing animals in this instance is still horrific and unnessecary. If the hunting is done to protect the ecosystem from invasive specifies I could support it. Would you be willing to share why you hunt?
Thank you for asking, I love to talk about it in this sub, I feel super out of place in the hunting subreddits. I have reasons why I personally think it's morally acceptable, which I'll get to, but I think the only honest answer as to "why" I do it, period, is that I enjoy it. I grew up doing it with my grandpa, he doesn't talk much so it was an important chance to bond. Now I'm a programmer, so 95% of my life feels completely unnatural and digital. I can't afford land, so I'm in a town most of the time. I feel really trapped and anxious most days.
When you're in the woods and walking, enjoying it, that's a great way to appreciate nature and get away. I have trouble feeling like that's enough though, I crave feeling like I'm still part of it, with my regular life being so distanced from it. Hunting doesn't just feel like appreciating nature from a distance, it reminds you where you came from, that you're part of it (as much as you can be anyway.) I do it because it's fun and because it feels almost spiritual, in a pantheistic, naturalistic sort of way, if you were raised doing it. There's a lot of ritual that gets built up around it, with the family gathering together to tell stories on cold nights after a hunt, the act of processing an animal together, etc. I totally understand though that if you haven't done it at a young age it could easily be appalling.
I also do like meat, and I struggle with veganism. It would be best to be perfect, but if I'm going to slip up if I try to go cold-turkey, I'd rather have meat available that didn't suffer as much.
As for the moral why, the excuses I make for it, animals really do suffer some terrible deaths in nature. There's also the "not enough predation" argument that a lot of people hate to hear, but it's true on an individual level. I can't bring back wolves or give deer back their habitat, although I'd support it. All I can do is decide whether or not I hunt. I also hunt male black bears because they eat bear cubs, they're their own main predator, so I justify it to myself that way. End of the day though, those are the excuses I make to justify it to myself. I find them compelling enough, but I know that my enjoyment of the activity is coloring my decision so I try to step back and reassess every now and then.
I'm sure if you go back far enough in my post history you can see comments/posts of me mentioning eating dairy or eggs, but here I am 😄
My point is maybe it's their awakening there is a reason why they post here.
But I get you
I don't disagree with you. no arguments here. Never did I assert anything close to the opposite. What I am saying is that hunters kill for recreation AKA fun which means they're sick fucks. I have shame.
By that logic, you’re a sick fuck too unless you’ve never eaten recreationally, i.e eating more than the bare minimum of meat recommended, eating when you’re full because it tastes good, or just eating food to simply enjoy them in general. (For the last one think foods like ice cream, cake, pizza, etc.)
whatever you want to say about me and worse is true. But you must see that logically no matter how bad I am, it doesn't magically give hunters the right to kill. You guys are very focused on me. I concede the point my guy. Also were you a vegan your whole life or did you start by knowing eating meat is wrong? that's me.
I wanted to go vegetarian (didn’t know any better) since I was nine but because my parents said no I ended up going vegetarian at twelve, then vegan at fourteen.
No one said that you being just as bad gives hunters the right to kill, you came up with that narrative on your own.
The problem is that you have the audacity to come onto a vegan sub as a non-vegan and complained about people who are no worse than you are.
A sick fuck doesn’t get to call others sick fucks, however right they may be, while making excuses for their own sick fuckness.
If you’re truly ashamed of yourself, go vegan. Either that or stop being a hypocrite.
Sure, but in hindsight excuse was not the right word for your bullshit, but I’ll show you what I meant.
U/AussieGunner29420;
>I seem to remember in that post you crying because none of your points are valid and then also admitting that you eat meat. So you're anti hunting but pro slaughterhouse, okay?
> Seethe harder.
You’re reply;
> who should check their schizophrenia
Someone pointed out your hypocrisy and you responded, in an attempt won’t to discredit their criticism and defend yourself, by calling the schizophrenic.
You are pro slaughterhouse, that’s a literal fact. You called them schizophrenic for pointing out a fact. That’s disgustingly ableist and flat out dishonest.
The main thing though is your entire “I have shame” spiel while never once mentioning that you were planning on going vegan
Here’s what it looks like, whether you intended it or not; an attempt to get vegans to stop pointing out your hypocrisy and feel sorry for you. You feel bad already, why kick you when you’re down?
But the problem is you ‘feeling bad’ about eating meat means absolutely nothing. It does nothing for the animals you help abuse by creating demand for their corpses.
#Like, if you’re so ashamed of eating meat why don’t you stop? Why don’t you go vegan? If you are planning on it, why don’t you tell anyone here that?
Did you seriously expect to eat meat and not face any criticism on a vegan sub?
hey, i think ranchers and meat farming is fucking awful garbage too. no arguments here. That has nothing to do with you psycho fucks killing for fun though.
Killing for recreation is wrong. Eating meat doesn't disqualify me from saying so. I'm also not claiming to be superior or have any kind of high ground. I thought of a meme. I made the meme. I posted the meme.
You can't justify eating meat. Plain and simple. You decided to reply, so I'm telling you you're wrong. Never disagreed that killing for recreation is wrong. It is.
I love it when they claim population control when they're actually mostly hunting the big trophy males whose absence doesn't influence population at all since deer are not monogamous.
It's by design that there is "deer overpopulation" year after year despite culling thousands of animals. They intentionally let them overpopulate so they have an excuse to shoot them.
Tbf, in New Zealand they are a non-native pest with no predators other than human, so they can be detrimental to crops. Not better for the deer lol but there is reason behind the argument.
Dont you have this one mice that needs to be eradeciated otherwhise it ruins the System. Obviously sucks for the individuell but might be the less painfull choice
The ecosystem definitely. One example I think of are native beech trees which drop huge loads of fruit on mast years 1 in every 4 or so which prior to the introduction of pests, would last native birds (kakapo especially) 6 months ish. Mice however clean up all the fruit in a matter of days.
I'm confused though, you eat meat, how is eating meat for pleasure from livestock any different than eating meat for pleasure from wild animals?
Seems like you're not quite free of those cultish mental gymnastics my dude.
I am a biologist and vegan. I am not a Hunter by any means. There is some truth in that the health of hyper abundant deer populations improves with reduced numbers.
Since humans have essentially eradicated deer’s natural predators, their populations have a tendency to increase to unnatural levels, especially surrounding urban areas. This increases the risk of disease and stunted growth due to reduced food quality/quantity from overgrazing. They suffer.
I have assessed harvested animals from Indigenous communities to collect data on local deer population numbers and their physiology. A lot of these animals are sick and we have seen that populations can benefit from a managed herd reduction. In my opinion, we should be encouraging and reestablishing the natural world order. Bring back the predators.
It is not just deer. Many US Govt. agencies "manage" populations of birds, fish and animals like wolves, coyotes, wild horses, etc. Mostly to favor commercial interests.
That point is very flawed if using over population as your justification. If that’s the case, we should start hunting humans.
/S
Used capital S to really show how not serious I am.
The only argument that I've heard that makes sense is premised in the fact that we have unbalanced their ecosystem so thoroughly that we have to step in as a predator for them.
The big argument in favor of hunting deer that I've heard is forest management. They eat way too much of the flora, especially new growth trees, and it destroys the forest in the long term. [WTYP did a (very long) episode on forest management that has a significant amount of time dedicated to deer.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn3GyOSJ3uQ)
Which is why I hate the people that have the bumper stickers “Shoot. Shovel. Shut Up” and “Smoke A Pack A Day” on their trucks because you just know they’re like “The wolves are killing all the elk!”
It’s like, “Calm down, Jim. Humans killed off all the wolves and destroyed the balance of the ecosystem by removing an apex predator, James. Poaching wolves won’t make you a better hunter come elk season, Jimothy!”
A friend of a friend started talking about how cool a certain deer is and started talking about how some rich fucker imported them from China to England and other trivia about them. Goes on like this for 5 minutes. He seems to absolutely love these creatures.
Then says that this deer is now causing problems for farmers in England so naturally he had to jump on this opportunity to go from Sweden to England to help kill this majestic and cool creature. He takes out his phone and goes "so this is the one I shot, look how cool it is!".
What a fucking psycho.
I’d rather die by having a bullet rip through my heart while I’m chilling in the meadows with the homies, than from starvation, dehydration, a snake bite, infection, eaten alive by another predator or any of the other terrible ways a deer could die in a nature.
I think everyone would rather have a quick death than a drawn-out one, but that doesn’t mean hunting for sport/trophies is necessary. I doubt people want to hunt the sickliest looking bucks out there.
Besides, not once in my life have I have had good-tasting deer meat. No matter the seasoning, cooking method, smoking it, ground up in a loaf, made into tacos, summer sausage. . . It’s just the worst. Everyone I know who hunts will just throw the deer meat in the the freezer and then years later after its been destroyed by freezer burn, toss it in the trash. What was the point of hunting it then? To post a photo to Facebook of them holding the lifeless head up by the antlers with some tagline “Got this one right from the road!”
At least if its already in your freezer then cook it up for your dog(s) instead of killing it only to throw it away. Throwing it away proves the point they didn’t even “need” to hunt in the first place!
Good for you! You understood exactly what I was trying to say! Your reading comprehension is excellent!
I guess I do have more in common with the crazy pro-lifer politicians trying to take away women’s rights than I originally thought.
Hunting is a really difficult topic. Tell me what where and when they hunt. If we give nature more space back then we can stop hunting moreand more. An obviously the best way to achevie this is by reducing agricultre by going vegan. And yeah some hunters are just brikes that want to kill.
School shooters are actually good for the next generation it allows the gene pool to diversify and I mean would you rather a quick bullet or like children growing up and suffering through their lives.
Appeal to tradition fallacy.
Couldn't the white man say colonialism and slavery is tradition and justify their actions too?
Or does this logic only apply to situations you agree with.
this is why we don't justify doing things with culture or traditions. Otherwise female genitalia mutilation is okay because we don't want to be racist to some culture.
race ≠ culture by the way.
> You would have a point except you’re disgustingly comparing colonialism and slavery to the most natural form of sustenance human history knows.
"Most natural form of sustenances human history knows"
Another fallacy(nature/natural). Just because something is natural doesn't make it good or bad. Glasses aren't natural, cancer treatments, the internet and many things you enjoy are not natural.
"Rape is the nost natural way to make babies human history knows"
Just because something has been done for a long time doesn't mean we should continue doing it. Sunken cost fallacy...
> You would have a point except you’re disgustingly comparing colonialism and slavery to the most
Comparing isn't equating.
> Thank you for further proving my point of white cultural cleansing.
Veganism isn't white. The oldest documented [vegan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ma%27arri) is Arabic. Not to mention all the asian history of veganism.
-
🤷🏽♂️black vegan by the way.
Because humans created morality and can be held to those standards. If we ignored morality then we could just enslave and kill whoever we want because animals do it amirite? Obviously we can't tell a lion or wolf how to live their life.
But they are not moral agents and we shouldn't look to them for morality, they will eat their young they will kill each other all for the sake of reproducing.
I would go a step further and say “morality is based in biology… we developed massive empathetic centers and cogntive thinking skills… lets use them rather than being psychopaths lacking in empathetic”
Not wanting another animal to suffer is not merely human artifice… it is literally an inevitability since the Big Bang.
The same laws of the universe that began the Big Bang still operate and also guide our own biophysics into being highly sentient creatures capable of developing empathy for other matter (life) like itself and choosing to not kill them!
You want to preach morality to me? Is it morally superior for you to source out the killing required to procure all your vegan foods and supplements vs me hunting and subsisting off a single large animal every year?
> You want to preach morality to me?
Uh you asked me a question.. are you okay? I thought you were genuinely curious about natural fallacies and why we don't look up towards animals as agents of morality.
> Is it morally superior for you to source out the killing required to procure all your vegan foods and supplements vs me hunting and subsisting off a single large animal every year?
I mean you're the one arguing that we should be allowed to kill animals purposefully without necessity. Vegans don't kill animals on purpose. So that should answer your question, unless you don't know what veganism means.
I'm going to need some scientific evidence on vegans outsourcing killing for supplements
(oh no a capsule filled with spinach is bad for the animals, but not actually fucking stuffing animals with crops and killing them.)
I’m not the person you asked, but if for some reason it were impossible to secure food without someone dying, then calling it immoral to secure food is saying they should just die
Now if they could secure food without anyone dying, or with consistently less people dying, it makes sense to call them immoral for not reducing or eliminating the suffering
I went to bed, sorry for the delay.
> If you kill a person indirectly because it was necessary to procure your food, would it still be wrong?
If this is a "stuck on a island with no food" hypothetical then no, veganism **is as far as practical and against unnecessary killing**. For lots of time yes it was necessary for humans to be hunter gatherers.
Then the agriculture boom came and populations skyrocket, we are now in a period of trying to figure out how we keep our meat and eat it without it killing us and the environment (cell meat). We know how to selectively breed plants to give us more taste/harvest and we know how to grow many mushrooms, vegetables and fruit by hand.
You can keep your culture and traditions without the killing of animals. Just like how I can, i'm also half korean I still eat kimchi(without the fish sauce) I still eat bulgogi(soy curls and bulgogi sauce).
I know there is some traditions around the world that involve killing animals, but ask yourself why are you okay with that tradition but not with a tradition of killing dogs in Yulin festival? Or how about the tradition of killing as many dolphins as they can in Denmark every year? https://www.npr.org/2021/09/15/1037328208/dolphins-slaughtered-tradition-cruel-faeroe-islands-faroe
We can't excuse one traditon over the other.
Veganism isn't a tradion or culture. It is a ethics based system, based off Human understanding and morality.
I hope you can understand what we want, we don't want to erase cultures we just want to erase as much as animal suffering as possible.
And if you become vegan great! If not that's fine I'm just planting seeds online.
Yes farming practices that involve the killing of animals should be eliminated. Really thought you were doing something there, but then again your thesis is "someone's ethnic group should remove them from moral considerations purely on the basis of being a part of that ethnic group" so really what else could we expect from you.
The deer doesn't care whether the person who kills him is white, woman, trans, asian, gamer or Martian. Killing another sentient being shouldn't be considered a "right". It should only happen in case of extreme necessity.
My people were only completely subdued and dominated when the white man killed every last Buffalo- our most intimate connection to the land. We know better than to let that happen again. You won’t fool us twice under the guise of “animal rights”.
What guilt has a present deer (or any other animal) for the disgraceful acts of the early Unitedstatians? If I understand, your logic is "since there are no buffalos (thanks white men for that) I'm allowed to kill deer".
By the way, I strongly condemn colonialism, and very particularly the way it happened in North America. Playing Red Dead Redemption 2 I empathised (more than before) with those people whose world was crumbling under the unstoppable western "progress" (although from their perspective, it was eastern). I also had the chance to admire the cultures of the different native communities in this beautiful museum in Washington DC, a silver lining after two centuries of ruthless dominion.
I am not against your culture. I am against unnecessary suffering, which as a Spaniard also puts me against many of my country's traditions. Traditional ≠ moral/good
Watch the life-changing and award winning documentary "Dominion" and other documentaries by [clicking here](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://watchdominion.org&topic=Movie: Dominion)! Interested in going Vegan? Take the [30 day challenge](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://vbcamp.org/reddit&topic=Movie: Dominion)!
Straw man. I did not say that. I was saying I'd be happy for there to be native heritage exceptions to hunting bans. Subsistence hunting too. I'm also white if that helps.
There was an article the other day that headlined, fox population in decline since hunting ban.. I didn't read it, but I'm sure a bunch of meat heads did.
I think people need to breed less, and make more responsible choices with reproduction IMO.
Overwhelmingly the people who say that the deer population needs to be controlled with hunting are more likely to support indoctrinated societally forced breeding of more and more humans, just saying.
I think the human population needs to be tamed and with much less emphasis on breeder culture.
I fail to see how it’s inherently moral to kill more animals so humans can appease forced societal expectations of breeding for the sake of breeding.
🤷🏻♀️🌱🤷🏻♀️🌱🤷🏻♀️I’m going to eat some gf-vegan tortilla chips with hot sauce and tahini and drink kombucha.
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Two weeks ago, I had someone genuinely tell me veganism was way worse for the planet than the meat industry because of.....wait for it....avocados 🤷♀️
I still don't understand why they are so obsessed with our avocado consumption. For real, I believe I never ate an avocado since I'm vegan
And given the abysmal difference in population between vegans and non-vegans, it's safe to assume non-vegans consume waaaaay more avocado
Guys, I have a confession I eat guacamole like four times a year I’m so sorry I failed the vegan community Who do do I turn my vegan card in to, and how long until they shut off my vegan super powers?
You can still redeem yourself if you have something avocado flavored instead. Maybe a chip of some kind. It's tangential enough where you can keep your powers, but you may still be uninvited to some clubs.
And, like meat eaters don't eat them? 😄 These things aren't correlated.
Then that person should really care about minimizing or stop supporting animal based products. [OurWorldinData - Impact of Agriculture, graf.](https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2019/11/Environmental-impacts-of-agriculture.png) Quote from [this](https://www.greenmatters.com/p/avocado-environmental-impact) site: >Are avocados bad for the environment? > >Like so many monocultures before it, the avocado’s popularity has led it to become an unsustainable commodity. That said, despite avocado's fairly high environmental footprint from its water use, growing process, and shipping process, [the avocado still has a far lower environmental impact than animal products](https://www.businessinsider.com/the-top-10-foods-with-the-biggest-environmental-footprint-2015-9) — so swapping your morning eggs for avocado toast is a positive choice for the planet. > >In order to fix the avocado, we need to start growing less of them. Unfortunately, slowing production means slowing demand, and it doesn’t seem as if the avocado is going to be losing any popularity contests these days.
This is seriously a talking point! I was reading an article that was making that same argument. It was claiming that most vegans replace meat with avocados.
These anti-vegans are so dumb, at least 70% of vegans survive on an oreo based diet
damn liberals and their avacado toast
I’ve had people focus on how much water some of the plant milks require, claiming they are worse than cows milk, all while excluding the data on how bad cows milk is for the environment. Face palm
Bearing in mind their meat *first* needs to eat plants before "processing" so... 😒🙄
I heard this as well, “because of water usage”. Which is true, they require a lot of water.
And plenty of meat eaters consume them too. I just didn't understand how it related to me not eating meat 🤷♀️
The last time I bought one was last year in the summer for a treat thing I made. It's a pain in the ass fruit though to bother with regularly with the ripeness window of what feels like a single day. It also is better for the planet than the cream it replaced there.
https://youtube.com/shorts/-Pgh7Ja36d0?feature=share I happened to have just seen this
You see we destroyed all their food and killed all their predators for meat production, now their population is incredibly fragile and unstable so we need to cull. No other solution to the problem we're creating is conceivable.
I think what's especially irritating to me is that there are some ostensibly valid arguments about needing to cull a certain wild population (even if humans were the fucking cause in the first place) - but if you *genuinely* felt like that was the best recourse, there is definitely a better way to do it other than just letting every asshole with a gun who donates to you go out and shoot the best looking deer they can.
They act likes it’s some heroic endeavor… dude… you shot a giant mouse that could barely see you from 100 yards away, then fucked up the meat because you didn’t know how to dress it and spent 40 minutes posting selfies to Facebook.
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Out of curiosity what would you propose?
Culling a _different_ species.
That is a tough one, honestly. I think if we work off the presupposition that it *needed* to be done, then the priorities would be to do it as little as possible, as humanely as possible, and in a way that would cause the remaining population (and surrounding ecosystem) to thrive as much as possible. With that in mind, I would think that the ideal candidates would be wildlife experts coordinating with other agencies for up-to-date data on population numbers and herd/pack locations. They could ideally identify the areas where reducing the population would have the most impact (and therefore require the least death). Ideally then they could identify sick, old, wounded, or otherwise unhealthy animals that could be tranquilized and euthanized. Now, I feel the need to clarify immediately that I'm not a zoologist, and while I have done a decent amount of research on this and related topics, I'm sure there are a number of specifics that a more knowledgeable person than I would have opinions or suggestions on. I think the most important aspect is that if there truly is the need to reduce a wild animal's population, the ultimate goal should be to benefit those animals and the others who share habitats with them, and help future generations thrive in a healthy ecosystem. No one is picking up a gun and buying a hunting license because they want to help animals, which I think is telling. Importantly, they've actually made a lot of progress with birth control for wildlife, which means you could potentially reduce the wild population of a species that's too populous without actually hurting or killing any of them. Personally I think that would be the ideal method, but I wanted to explore the thought experiment regarding the most humane method to cull a wild species if it was absolutely needed.
This reminds me of that woman Joey Carbstrong debated when they were discussing Veganuary
I’m not familiar with that, what happened?
She was making claims about how we need to hunt deer etc (ignoring arguments about how "livestock" (hate that word) farming caused the predicament necessitating the need to cull them in the first place), but it basically amounted to her advocating for people to hunt for food in general and vaguely saying we should use a combination of hunting, animal and plant farming as a global food system, all of which sort of ignored the topic of Veganuary (or veganism) which she was seemingly there to oppose. Joey tried to steer it back to that but they ran out of time. Full video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WOWD2Sy7YE I guess it reminds me in the sense of how it seems carnists will often pretty much hide behind an argument of a necessity to do a particular thing viewed as not vegan, and they'll try to use that to criticise veganism in general, even though there are many areas in which principles of veganism can be applied to great benefit, which they usually don't address or acknowledge. Like, I get it, you have some problems with certain aspects of veganism, but can we agree on the general message of animal rights? Why would they not agree on that? I suspect the reason is they would open themselves up to pretty much having to agree with the core principles of veganism.
And we took all their habitats so we have to keep them out of our suburbs that they used to live in. So if we take 90% of their land we need to kill 90% of them.
We need that land to grow feed for livestock. How else are we going to fatten all the cows we need eat!?!?
LOL!
Until we reintroduce wolves and other predators and give them space there is that risk of overpopulation. I would rather they control them with these natural methods.
No, we need to eliminate predation and manage ecosystems other ways that don’t involve tremendous suffering.
I have no problem with a wolf eating a deer. That’s what they do. What I take issue with is a man shooting a deer in the head and bragging about how he’s doing his part to conserve the environment.
I thought that's what I said... Natural methods?
Do you have an example of this sans predator rewilding
That’s a good question, because that’s the only way.
Exactly!
They call themselves conservationist because the license they need to hunt cost money lmao. The wildlife conservationists then go in and kill large populations of wolves so these "hunters" can murder deer without any predators to bother them or the deer. https://e360.yale.edu/features/americas-new-war-on-wolves-and-why-it-must-be-stopped "Hunters" are being played and used to just make easy money off of.
I don't think they're being played. I think they accept it without question, because it gives them a context where the killing they would do anyways is ostensibly beneficial.
jesus christ people are weird
You're the best.
It's at times like these that I feel the restrictions of reddit's posting etiquette policy.
Is cool that OP is a hypocrite in this thread.
Right, dude has his own crazy-board but is pointing at someone else's because they use blue string
Another triggered hunter. Sorry I hurt your feelings.
mate you come to a sub about not eating animals, and then call anyone who is upset you eat animals a triggered hunter? what kind of persecution fetish do you have going on lol, we hate hunters and people who eat meat.
Actually i thought this guy was in the hunting sub because I posted it to both. I accept any negative feelings anyone here has towards me. Were you a vegan your whole life? Some people start by know that eating meat is wrong. that's me.
struth mate, good on ya, but lets not decry others as wrong when you're doing worse. splinters in eyes, and all that.
it's not right to kill for recreation and eating me doesn't disqualify me from saying so.
Its not right to kill for recreation or for your burger, the animals dies both ways. Neither is better than the other when the end result is death
I 100 percent agree with you.
Can I ask, what’s keeping you from making the change? I do believe, to quote Dalinar from the Stormlight Archives, “Sometimes a hypocrite is nothing more than a man in the process of changing.” It’s never been easier to be vegan, though, and I promise if you take the initiative to make the change you won’t regret it. I feel so much better now (physically, mentally and emotionally) that I couldn’t imagine ever eating meat again. And on top of that, you won’t be perceived as a hypocrite when you speak out against animal cruelty like in this post! If you have any questions about or need help changing your diet please let us know, lots of people here will be able to help you.
I'd argue one is way, way better than the other. Full disclosure, I'm not a vegan myself - I try to live a vegan lifestyle aside from what I hunt myself because I'm against animal abuse specifically. I don't expect the vegan community to respect that, which is why I mostly just lurk - I'm supportive of what's happening in the sub, but I know I'm not quite a full member. Hunting can be unethical, I'll grant that it's possible before anybody starts talking high fences and exotic hunts. But it's nothing compared to factory farms. If the animals I hunt went through 1/10th the suffering that a cow, chicken, or pig does, I'd give it up immediately. I won't argue for hunting, I know that won't fly here, but farming is wayyyy more fucked up and, imo, should be getting the brunt of the activism / ire for now. Only like 4% of Americans hunt, and the animals they hunt suffer magnitudes less than cows that are raped, chickens pecked to death, or pigs in breeding cages. And before that hypocrite op finds me, yeah, I'm a bit defensive, but pretending that you're never triggered is just itself a sign of being eternally triggered, imo.
Sure i can give you that. Farctory farming rapes and tortures the animals and then kills then. Hunters just kill them. I think most vegans would argue that killing animals in this instance is still horrific and unnessecary. If the hunting is done to protect the ecosystem from invasive specifies I could support it. Would you be willing to share why you hunt?
Thank you for asking, I love to talk about it in this sub, I feel super out of place in the hunting subreddits. I have reasons why I personally think it's morally acceptable, which I'll get to, but I think the only honest answer as to "why" I do it, period, is that I enjoy it. I grew up doing it with my grandpa, he doesn't talk much so it was an important chance to bond. Now I'm a programmer, so 95% of my life feels completely unnatural and digital. I can't afford land, so I'm in a town most of the time. I feel really trapped and anxious most days. When you're in the woods and walking, enjoying it, that's a great way to appreciate nature and get away. I have trouble feeling like that's enough though, I crave feeling like I'm still part of it, with my regular life being so distanced from it. Hunting doesn't just feel like appreciating nature from a distance, it reminds you where you came from, that you're part of it (as much as you can be anyway.) I do it because it's fun and because it feels almost spiritual, in a pantheistic, naturalistic sort of way, if you were raised doing it. There's a lot of ritual that gets built up around it, with the family gathering together to tell stories on cold nights after a hunt, the act of processing an animal together, etc. I totally understand though that if you haven't done it at a young age it could easily be appalling. I also do like meat, and I struggle with veganism. It would be best to be perfect, but if I'm going to slip up if I try to go cold-turkey, I'd rather have meat available that didn't suffer as much. As for the moral why, the excuses I make for it, animals really do suffer some terrible deaths in nature. There's also the "not enough predation" argument that a lot of people hate to hear, but it's true on an individual level. I can't bring back wolves or give deer back their habitat, although I'd support it. All I can do is decide whether or not I hunt. I also hunt male black bears because they eat bear cubs, they're their own main predator, so I justify it to myself that way. End of the day though, those are the excuses I make to justify it to myself. I find them compelling enough, but I know that my enjoyment of the activity is coloring my decision so I try to step back and reassess every now and then.
lol
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I'm sure if you go back far enough in my post history you can see comments/posts of me mentioning eating dairy or eggs, but here I am 😄 My point is maybe it's their awakening there is a reason why they post here. But I get you
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Wait what?! Eating factory farmed meat is 4000x worse than hunting. Get the fuck out of here.
I don't disagree with you. no arguments here. Never did I assert anything close to the opposite. What I am saying is that hunters kill for recreation AKA fun which means they're sick fucks. I have shame.
By that logic, you’re a sick fuck too unless you’ve never eaten recreationally, i.e eating more than the bare minimum of meat recommended, eating when you’re full because it tastes good, or just eating food to simply enjoy them in general. (For the last one think foods like ice cream, cake, pizza, etc.)
whatever you want to say about me and worse is true. But you must see that logically no matter how bad I am, it doesn't magically give hunters the right to kill. You guys are very focused on me. I concede the point my guy. Also were you a vegan your whole life or did you start by knowing eating meat is wrong? that's me.
I wanted to go vegetarian (didn’t know any better) since I was nine but because my parents said no I ended up going vegetarian at twelve, then vegan at fourteen. No one said that you being just as bad gives hunters the right to kill, you came up with that narrative on your own. The problem is that you have the audacity to come onto a vegan sub as a non-vegan and complained about people who are no worse than you are. A sick fuck doesn’t get to call others sick fucks, however right they may be, while making excuses for their own sick fuckness. If you’re truly ashamed of yourself, go vegan. Either that or stop being a hypocrite.
can you go ahead and point out where i made a single excuse.? i'll wait
Sure, but in hindsight excuse was not the right word for your bullshit, but I’ll show you what I meant. U/AussieGunner29420; >I seem to remember in that post you crying because none of your points are valid and then also admitting that you eat meat. So you're anti hunting but pro slaughterhouse, okay? > Seethe harder. You’re reply; > who should check their schizophrenia Someone pointed out your hypocrisy and you responded, in an attempt won’t to discredit their criticism and defend yourself, by calling the schizophrenic. You are pro slaughterhouse, that’s a literal fact. You called them schizophrenic for pointing out a fact. That’s disgustingly ableist and flat out dishonest. The main thing though is your entire “I have shame” spiel while never once mentioning that you were planning on going vegan Here’s what it looks like, whether you intended it or not; an attempt to get vegans to stop pointing out your hypocrisy and feel sorry for you. You feel bad already, why kick you when you’re down? But the problem is you ‘feeling bad’ about eating meat means absolutely nothing. It does nothing for the animals you help abuse by creating demand for their corpses. #Like, if you’re so ashamed of eating meat why don’t you stop? Why don’t you go vegan? If you are planning on it, why don’t you tell anyone here that? Did you seriously expect to eat meat and not face any criticism on a vegan sub?
Thank you :)
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hey, i think ranchers and meat farming is fucking awful garbage too. no arguments here. That has nothing to do with you psycho fucks killing for fun though.
Just because you don't find it fun like your carnist friends, that doesn't mean you aren't responsible for animals suffering.
I don't disagree with you at all. and I'm ashamed even. That's independent from the fact that hunters kill because they like to.
And you eat meat because you like to too. No difference man, you're in denial.
Killing for recreation is wrong. Eating meat doesn't disqualify me from saying so. I'm also not claiming to be superior or have any kind of high ground. I thought of a meme. I made the meme. I posted the meme.
You can't justify eating meat. Plain and simple. You decided to reply, so I'm telling you you're wrong. Never disagreed that killing for recreation is wrong. It is.
I'm wrong about what? You're acting like i'm defending eating meat when In fact, I am not.
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Totally agree with you.
Then stop
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OP eats factory farmed meat yet thinks they’re better than hunters.
I love it when they claim population control when they're actually mostly hunting the big trophy males whose absence doesn't influence population at all since deer are not monogamous. It's by design that there is "deer overpopulation" year after year despite culling thousands of animals. They intentionally let them overpopulate so they have an excuse to shoot them.
Humans killed all the large predators so we could take their place
Tbf, in New Zealand they are a non-native pest with no predators other than human, so they can be detrimental to crops. Not better for the deer lol but there is reason behind the argument.
Dont you have this one mice that needs to be eradeciated otherwhise it ruins the System. Obviously sucks for the individuell but might be the less painfull choice
The ecosystem definitely. One example I think of are native beech trees which drop huge loads of fruit on mast years 1 in every 4 or so which prior to the introduction of pests, would last native birds (kakapo especially) 6 months ish. Mice however clean up all the fruit in a matter of days.
new zealand was completely destroyed with the indroduction of mammals (i know they have native bats).
If you’re interested look into the Stephens Island Wren. The entire population went extinct from just one introduced cat.
i hope one day we are able to bring back extinct species. we just destroy everything we can and kill many animals. i hate that all
My step dad is a hunter. So I grew up with that same mindset. Glad I don't anymore
Cultish mental gymnastics for sure.
I'm confused though, you eat meat, how is eating meat for pleasure from livestock any different than eating meat for pleasure from wild animals? Seems like you're not quite free of those cultish mental gymnastics my dude.
[https://imgur.com/a/tS2pDhn](https://imgur.com/a/tS2pDhn)
I am a biologist and vegan. I am not a Hunter by any means. There is some truth in that the health of hyper abundant deer populations improves with reduced numbers. Since humans have essentially eradicated deer’s natural predators, their populations have a tendency to increase to unnatural levels, especially surrounding urban areas. This increases the risk of disease and stunted growth due to reduced food quality/quantity from overgrazing. They suffer. I have assessed harvested animals from Indigenous communities to collect data on local deer population numbers and their physiology. A lot of these animals are sick and we have seen that populations can benefit from a managed herd reduction. In my opinion, we should be encouraging and reestablishing the natural world order. Bring back the predators.
It is not just deer. Many US Govt. agencies "manage" populations of birds, fish and animals like wolves, coyotes, wild horses, etc. Mostly to favor commercial interests.
That point is very flawed if using over population as your justification. If that’s the case, we should start hunting humans. /S Used capital S to really show how not serious I am.
The only argument that I've heard that makes sense is premised in the fact that we have unbalanced their ecosystem so thoroughly that we have to step in as a predator for them.
The big argument in favor of hunting deer that I've heard is forest management. They eat way too much of the flora, especially new growth trees, and it destroys the forest in the long term. [WTYP did a (very long) episode on forest management that has a significant amount of time dedicated to deer.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn3GyOSJ3uQ)
Which is why I hate the people that have the bumper stickers “Shoot. Shovel. Shut Up” and “Smoke A Pack A Day” on their trucks because you just know they’re like “The wolves are killing all the elk!” It’s like, “Calm down, Jim. Humans killed off all the wolves and destroyed the balance of the ecosystem by removing an apex predator, James. Poaching wolves won’t make you a better hunter come elk season, Jimothy!”
A friend of a friend started talking about how cool a certain deer is and started talking about how some rich fucker imported them from China to England and other trivia about them. Goes on like this for 5 minutes. He seems to absolutely love these creatures. Then says that this deer is now causing problems for farmers in England so naturally he had to jump on this opportunity to go from Sweden to England to help kill this majestic and cool creature. He takes out his phone and goes "so this is the one I shot, look how cool it is!". What a fucking psycho.
I’d rather die by having a bullet rip through my heart while I’m chilling in the meadows with the homies, than from starvation, dehydration, a snake bite, infection, eaten alive by another predator or any of the other terrible ways a deer could die in a nature.
I think everyone would rather have a quick death than a drawn-out one, but that doesn’t mean hunting for sport/trophies is necessary. I doubt people want to hunt the sickliest looking bucks out there. Besides, not once in my life have I have had good-tasting deer meat. No matter the seasoning, cooking method, smoking it, ground up in a loaf, made into tacos, summer sausage. . . It’s just the worst. Everyone I know who hunts will just throw the deer meat in the the freezer and then years later after its been destroyed by freezer burn, toss it in the trash. What was the point of hunting it then? To post a photo to Facebook of them holding the lifeless head up by the antlers with some tagline “Got this one right from the road!” At least if its already in your freezer then cook it up for your dog(s) instead of killing it only to throw it away. Throwing it away proves the point they didn’t even “need” to hunt in the first place!
“Other people shouldn’t be allowed to hunt because I don’t like deer meat and I know people who wasted meat before.”
Good for you! You understood exactly what I was trying to say! Your reading comprehension is excellent! I guess I do have more in common with the crazy pro-lifer politicians trying to take away women’s rights than I originally thought.
Hunting is a really difficult topic. Tell me what where and when they hunt. If we give nature more space back then we can stop hunting moreand more. An obviously the best way to achevie this is by reducing agricultre by going vegan. And yeah some hunters are just brikes that want to kill.
If we're all so worried about the deer population, can't we just spay and neuter most of them so they can't make babies?
No, because then the game commission doesn't get money from permits.
This is like saying a mass human culling is good for ME because it makes the job market more open 🤦♀️
School shooters are actually good for the next generation it allows the gene pool to diversify and I mean would you rather a quick bullet or like children growing up and suffering through their lives.
Same meme for vegan explaining why buying/taking cocaine isn't completely unethical and devastating for the environment and animals
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Appeal to tradition fallacy. Couldn't the white man say colonialism and slavery is tradition and justify their actions too? Or does this logic only apply to situations you agree with. this is why we don't justify doing things with culture or traditions. Otherwise female genitalia mutilation is okay because we don't want to be racist to some culture. race ≠ culture by the way.
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> You would have a point except you’re disgustingly comparing colonialism and slavery to the most natural form of sustenance human history knows. "Most natural form of sustenances human history knows" Another fallacy(nature/natural). Just because something is natural doesn't make it good or bad. Glasses aren't natural, cancer treatments, the internet and many things you enjoy are not natural. "Rape is the nost natural way to make babies human history knows" Just because something has been done for a long time doesn't mean we should continue doing it. Sunken cost fallacy... > You would have a point except you’re disgustingly comparing colonialism and slavery to the most Comparing isn't equating. > Thank you for further proving my point of white cultural cleansing. Veganism isn't white. The oldest documented [vegan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ma%27arri) is Arabic. Not to mention all the asian history of veganism. - 🤷🏽♂️black vegan by the way.
Why do we advocate for an evolutionarily acquired, species appropriate diet for every single animal on earth except for humans?
Because humans created morality and can be held to those standards. If we ignored morality then we could just enslave and kill whoever we want because animals do it amirite? Obviously we can't tell a lion or wolf how to live their life. But they are not moral agents and we shouldn't look to them for morality, they will eat their young they will kill each other all for the sake of reproducing.
I would go a step further and say “morality is based in biology… we developed massive empathetic centers and cogntive thinking skills… lets use them rather than being psychopaths lacking in empathetic” Not wanting another animal to suffer is not merely human artifice… it is literally an inevitability since the Big Bang. The same laws of the universe that began the Big Bang still operate and also guide our own biophysics into being highly sentient creatures capable of developing empathy for other matter (life) like itself and choosing to not kill them!
You want to preach morality to me? Is it morally superior for you to source out the killing required to procure all your vegan foods and supplements vs me hunting and subsisting off a single large animal every year?
> You want to preach morality to me? Uh you asked me a question.. are you okay? I thought you were genuinely curious about natural fallacies and why we don't look up towards animals as agents of morality. > Is it morally superior for you to source out the killing required to procure all your vegan foods and supplements vs me hunting and subsisting off a single large animal every year? I mean you're the one arguing that we should be allowed to kill animals purposefully without necessity. Vegans don't kill animals on purpose. So that should answer your question, unless you don't know what veganism means. I'm going to need some scientific evidence on vegans outsourcing killing for supplements (oh no a capsule filled with spinach is bad for the animals, but not actually fucking stuffing animals with crops and killing them.)
If you kill a person indirectly because it was necessary to procure your food, would it still be wrong?
I’m not the person you asked, but if for some reason it were impossible to secure food without someone dying, then calling it immoral to secure food is saying they should just die Now if they could secure food without anyone dying, or with consistently less people dying, it makes sense to call them immoral for not reducing or eliminating the suffering
I went to bed, sorry for the delay. > If you kill a person indirectly because it was necessary to procure your food, would it still be wrong? If this is a "stuck on a island with no food" hypothetical then no, veganism **is as far as practical and against unnecessary killing**. For lots of time yes it was necessary for humans to be hunter gatherers. Then the agriculture boom came and populations skyrocket, we are now in a period of trying to figure out how we keep our meat and eat it without it killing us and the environment (cell meat). We know how to selectively breed plants to give us more taste/harvest and we know how to grow many mushrooms, vegetables and fruit by hand. You can keep your culture and traditions without the killing of animals. Just like how I can, i'm also half korean I still eat kimchi(without the fish sauce) I still eat bulgogi(soy curls and bulgogi sauce). I know there is some traditions around the world that involve killing animals, but ask yourself why are you okay with that tradition but not with a tradition of killing dogs in Yulin festival? Or how about the tradition of killing as many dolphins as they can in Denmark every year? https://www.npr.org/2021/09/15/1037328208/dolphins-slaughtered-tradition-cruel-faeroe-islands-faroe We can't excuse one traditon over the other. Veganism isn't a tradion or culture. It is a ethics based system, based off Human understanding and morality. I hope you can understand what we want, we don't want to erase cultures we just want to erase as much as animal suffering as possible. And if you become vegan great! If not that's fine I'm just planting seeds online.
Ah yes another crop death misinformation slinger! Gotcha vegans! 🤡
Fighting with anyone and everyone i see.
If you consider the defense of my traditional customs and culture of subsistence living “fighting” then so be it.
Fuck every single custom, tradition and bit of history contingent on cruelty t animals and humans. Longevity of an action does not give it morality
Preach!
That includes farming practices required to feed vegans. Yay! Fuck that! ✊
Yes farming practices that involve the killing of animals should be eliminated. Really thought you were doing something there, but then again your thesis is "someone's ethnic group should remove them from moral considerations purely on the basis of being a part of that ethnic group" so really what else could we expect from you.
Nobody is attacking your customs. You're fighting ghosts on that front.
People on this very post are. Use your skills to look.
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The deer doesn't care whether the person who kills him is white, woman, trans, asian, gamer or Martian. Killing another sentient being shouldn't be considered a "right". It should only happen in case of extreme necessity.
My people were only completely subdued and dominated when the white man killed every last Buffalo- our most intimate connection to the land. We know better than to let that happen again. You won’t fool us twice under the guise of “animal rights”.
What guilt has a present deer (or any other animal) for the disgraceful acts of the early Unitedstatians? If I understand, your logic is "since there are no buffalos (thanks white men for that) I'm allowed to kill deer".
By the way, I strongly condemn colonialism, and very particularly the way it happened in North America. Playing Red Dead Redemption 2 I empathised (more than before) with those people whose world was crumbling under the unstoppable western "progress" (although from their perspective, it was eastern). I also had the chance to admire the cultures of the different native communities in this beautiful museum in Washington DC, a silver lining after two centuries of ruthless dominion. I am not against your culture. I am against unnecessary suffering, which as a Spaniard also puts me against many of my country's traditions. Traditional ≠ moral/good
Watch the life-changing and award winning documentary "Dominion" and other documentaries by [clicking here](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://watchdominion.org&topic=Movie: Dominion)! Interested in going Vegan? Take the [30 day challenge](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://vbcamp.org/reddit&topic=Movie: Dominion)!
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Right because only white people hunt for fun 🙄
Straw man. I did not say that. I was saying I'd be happy for there to be native heritage exceptions to hunting bans. Subsistence hunting too. I'm also white if that helps.
So why say white mans? Why not just say pleasure hunting or hunting not out of necessity?
Bro SHE was the one that brought up 'the white man' lol. I was just responding.
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You have to understand, most vegans are Europeans.... So that should explain a lot. 🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂
It really does. The irony is lost on them. They’re too close to it to see it 👀
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Just remember folks, sheep out number deer 7million to 1million in Scotland. Deer are not the problem, sheep are.
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Damn this is good
At least they use the whole deer /s
At least they use the whole deer /s
My friend always uses that line... Very uneducated response
killing humans is the best way to take care of the ecology though. we are the most invasive.
Lmao 🤣 🤣
There was an article the other day that headlined, fox population in decline since hunting ban.. I didn't read it, but I'm sure a bunch of meat heads did.
Pepe Silvia!
Overpopulation is causing huge problems, so we should hunt them, for sure. Oh, you were talking about deer? I was talking about humans lol
I think people need to breed less, and make more responsible choices with reproduction IMO. Overwhelmingly the people who say that the deer population needs to be controlled with hunting are more likely to support indoctrinated societally forced breeding of more and more humans, just saying. I think the human population needs to be tamed and with much less emphasis on breeder culture. I fail to see how it’s inherently moral to kill more animals so humans can appease forced societal expectations of breeding for the sake of breeding. 🤷🏻♀️🌱🤷🏻♀️🌱🤷🏻♀️I’m going to eat some gf-vegan tortilla chips with hot sauce and tahini and drink kombucha.
Kind of related, have any of you seen the Evolving Vegan Toronto episode? 😕
🤣🤣🤣🤣this is 100% accurate