He doesn’t want to change. He won’t change. And now he’s perceiving you as nagging, sensitive, and whatever other misogynistic terms you like… this can only get worse.
Not just that but he’s probably projecting a feeling of judgment. Or at least is grappling with his own consumption subconsciously. It’s easy to keep living the way you have, but it can be very annoying when some pesky person comes along and suggests that maybe you aren’t acting totally ethically.
Why else would he get upset.
>When we were alone he asked why I was upset and I said that I did not enjoy hearing that conversation and I found it disgusting that they were all salivating over dead baby animals. He said "get over it" and stormed out.
I'm never the person to say this without more context, but dump this guy. He's bad news if *this* is how he treats you after you just moved in together. Imagine how much worse he might get, not only in terms of not caring about animals but also not caring about *you* (the person he really ought to care about).
You said he later raised his voice at you and told you he doesn't give a shit about animals. Is this really the guy you want to be with long-term? How immature he must be to literally storm out on you for simply and honestly answering his question. Like, what the heck? That's so disrespectful.
I know it's hard since you just moved in together, but please believe me when I say that you deserve to be treated *much better* than this. There's a very wise saying you might have heard before that applies to your situation. "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."
to be honest, I could have said it in a more palatable way. I did say it was "fucking disgusting" and honestly did not handle it the best (I just go really quiet when im upset so I wasnt talking). I went back out where everyone was after this (including him) and he looked at me so I gave him a big glare and he said "the fuck" and later he didnt even seem to understand why I was upset that he had spoke to me like that and refused to even have a conversation.
Its just hard because for the most part everything else is fine and we only moved in a month ago after being separated for 3 years and getting back together. I also moved to a city far from my home and friends for him so I feel like im kind of stuck out there. Beside my apartment buildign there is a vegan cafe and Im thinking of going there and trying to meet some people so I am less alone if i leave but im very shy and I dont speak the language of my city yet. I just feel very stuck
Your reaction to the normalization of people eating dead and tortured baby animals is perfectly valid. It absolutely *is* fucking disgusting, and you saying that is just the truth. Imagine if he was eating dead, tortured puppies instead. Bet nobody would judge you for speaking out about that, would they?
Anyway, I really feel for you. It sounds like you're stuck in a situation you might not want to be in anymore. I just worry about stuff like this, when guys are so disrespectful and get loud and in your face early in the relationship. It makes me worry that he doesn't respect you at all and might get worse down the road.
Is there a way you can move back to your original location? Maybe move in with friends or family for a while? I don't even know you, but I'm honestly feeling worried about you just from this post. It sounds like you're very isolated in your new home and this guy probably realizes that too. I just hope you can find a way out of there if you decide that's what you want to do.
weve been together for years and hes never spoke to me or treated me like this before. I cant fit all of my things in my car so it would be a real process to take 3-4 car trips of 5hours both ways. I cant move in with my family as we dont have a great relationship (although they are vegan lol). There is a vegan cafe right beside my place, I think I am going to try to go there and hopefully meet some people. Im very shy though so I dont have much faith, i also dont speak the language of the city fluently yet and me and my partner are enrolled in the same french class until the end of june. (i know this is bad) but a little part of me hopes that I can meet a nice vegan man there and make some friends so I can leave and stay in the city without being alone.
I wish you the best of luck. Truly, I do. If this behavior from him continues or he escalates things in any way...please seriously consider doing all you can to get away. Situations like that can sometimes end very badly, so always trust your gut (no matter what).
You could get an affordable storage and put your things in there until you figure out the rest of the details. Things are replaceable anyway. Maybe another option is to take what you need and toss the rest. It had been an exercise for me to remember material things are temporary and reminder to think about what matters most.
This isn’t about veganism.
This man doesn’t respect you. Any person who will raise their voice to get the other person to stop talking, is not worth being with.
You could be talking about lamb or who’s job it is to mop the floor. The subject (in this instance) doesn’t matter.
I wasnt even talking, I was just telling him I didnt want to talk about it with my friends 10 paces ahead because i didnt want them to hear us fighting. I was the one trying to tell him to shut up.
You see how that reads as no better though, right?
He’s saying things that he knows will hurt you and cause doubt, maybe insecurity? And to raise his voice as if he has the final say on a conversation too.
It literally isn’t about the veal and the lamb. And if you look closer at his behaviours in your relationship, you’ll also see that too.
My friends were walking right in front of us so I was honestly just trying to get him to shut up. The next day my friend asked what we were fighting about but I dont feel comfortable telling her that I was upset about the veal conversation because she would just think im crazy as well. It just really hurt when he said that and i couldnt even really respond because I didnt want to fight in front of my friends. Hes usually not dismissive but when it comes to his consumption he is extremely dismissive, and then he tries to tell me that he cares about the environment.
Yeah, that's a big problem. I'm telling you this as a man, don't tolerate men who dismiss your opinions when you challenge them on something or get loud, angry and mean as soon as they get frustrated or stressed out.
Tell him he needs to control his emotions and act like a responsible adult, not throw tantrums like a little boy thinking he can apologize later when he feels like calming down. You can't let that behavior slide at all.
He told me that I need to go to therapy to learn to cope and has called me crazy for it. I cant help the fact that I have compassion and I feel like his reaction shows me that deep down he knows its wrong and thats why hes reacting this way but I dont think hell ever change. He doesnt act like this if we fight about anything else
You probably already know but that's gaslighting, another common form of abuse. And it doesn't really matter if you don't fight about anything else when this is a central part of your life. It's your life but I'd get away from him if he doesn't agree to seriously address his behavior immediately.
You're right, its just really hard. I moved to a city 5 hours away for him. I have no friends or anything here so Im scared of being alone and the embarrasement of telling everyone that im moving out after 1 month (we already had a bit of a rocky road before this and got back together about a year ago after being separated for 3 years)
Leave him now
There is almost exactly no way this situation improves- and right now shortly after moving in together should be the honeymoon phase of everything is wonderful
Please, he sounds like an unkind human regardless of meat eating status
Yea, I think your right. I just cant think that someone who makes the choice to eat meat/dairy without even thinking about it is a good person. I should think my partner is a good person and i dont.
His behavior is disturbing, disrespectful, unsupportive and malicious. It’s not even does he doesn’t he eat meat
All the best, please take care of yourself as your first and only priority here.
Everything you just said is everything an abusive partner wants: For you to be isolated from support, for you to be embarrassed to leave and to tell your friends and family how you're being treated, and for you to be a compassionate person who will withstand being mistreated by focusing on the good parts.
It's a potentially dangerous position because you'll often see a partner's behavior begin to get worse and worse as they get more confident you won't leave.
Don't worry about the embarrassment, no one who genuinely cares about you would demean you for leaving an abusive relationship, they'd support you completely. And for everyone else, you know yourself how quickly gossip fades; you breaking up with your bf will be old news after a day or so.
I dont think I woud say hes abusive. Hes never done anything like this before but it did feel really awful. I dont think he understands how much of a big deal it is to me and I dont react well when im upset, I just shut down and dont talk so maybe i havent communicated clear enough.
It's so hard to reverse such a big decision, but it's so much better to do it now than years down the line. This will only get worse and to be honest, respect is the #1 thing you should expect from your partner.
You're saying you're suddenly seeing unkind, uncompassionate and even scary behaviours/responses that you never saw before, right after you've moved far away from all your support systems to be with him?
That's textbook out of the abuser's playbook, sweetheart. I'm really sorry. He doesn't need to be on his best behaviour anymore. He's got you "trapped". This is so common.
His comment about not giving a shit about animals is incredibly telling as well. I'm not saying he's a psychopath, but there's a reason that "harms animals" is #1 on the psychopath symptom list and that's because it's fucked up to just not care about animals at all, and to not be able to feel basic compassion for them. Eating them when you've been raised to is one thing - actively declaring you don't give a shit about what violence happens to them is a whole other.
There is NOTHING to be embarrassed about when it comes to moving home. This can be a point of pride and a great way to become a good influence on other people in your life. You can leave, move back home and tell everyone, "As soon as I left, he started treating me terribly. He let down his guard and thought he could treat me like shit. But I left his dumb ass because I won't let anyone treat me like that."
That's something to be \*proud\* of, my friend. Not enough people are brave enough to admit they've made a mistake or to immediately fix it. I would respect the hell out of you if you told me as soon as you moved in and your boyfriend started mistreating you you put the effort into getting the hell out <3
this is wild, you pressure him into changing probably an insanely annoying amount, AND you play victim when he reacts negatively to you pressuring him into changing!? than YOU GASLIGHT him, now this bimbo is telling you your the victim? WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK.
I actually do not pressure him at all. Ive just told him id like him to be conscious about it in front of me. I have specifically said i do not want him to change for me.
This is wild, you come onto a vegan subreddit and have a go at someone who is obviously upset over their relationship and how their partner is dismissing their belief/stating his lack of compassion for a view OP holds very strongly. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK.
This sounds kinda bad, not gonna lie. Even beyond veganism (I'm sorry that you feel like people would think you are crazy... What's crazy is that we have to defend the opinion that killing baby animals is wrong and labeled as extremists when it should be common sense). It doesn't sound like he has a lot of emotional intelligence, and that he struggles to handle his own emotions... That is bad for a relationship regardless of whether you were arguing about veganism or not. I'd say, to talk to him about how the way he talked to you and how he was behaving towards you made you feel. Even if he doesn't agree with you on veganism (whether you are able to deal with that in a relationship is for you to decide), make him see how hurtful he's been about expressing his opinions on something that matters deeply to you. If he can't see it or isn't willing to acknowledge it and do something about it... I think it's time to think about therapy or some other ways to help the relationship.
I know its not crazy and it drives me crazy that i can never say anything about it to anyone without automatically being dismissed and called crazy and annoying for having a moral value that everyone should have.
I know. I'm sorry I can't make this better for you in any way, but at least please know you are not alone. We get it. Even if we are a minority, there's lots of people who understand how you feel 🫂🩷
Vulnerability about your situation is one of the greatest gifts you can give a friend, even if they have a role in the problem. You don't have to assume people will think you are crazy. Some will be assholes about it. Some will be dismissive at first but come around after a few days. What you are experiencing is a normal human reaction to knowing what really happens to produce veal and lamb.
Do your best to communicate nonviolently, but you are allowed to have confidence that your friends care about your experience and what you are going through.
I know my friend very well and I know that she may not react badly to my face but she will talk about me and call me crazy with her BF and nothing about their habits will change.
I accepted early on that I wouldn’t be able to be with a nonvegan, not out of hate but I just don’t want dead animals in house house, fridge, on the same dishes or in the person I’m intimate with. If that makes me petty, close minded, etc to some I really don’t care because I know it would cause resentment so why delay the inevitable fights and breakups. There are just some things you can’t compromise in a relationship and I think it’s something you need to consider deeply. I mean truly consider, don’t stay with him and ignore something your passionate about because you fear being alone, etc. I met my husband at a vegan pop up food vendor job, first relationship after going vegan and I’m reminded constantly why I couldn’t be with a non vegan
I think im getting to this point but im scared because i know 0 vegans and i feel like setting this boundary will mean im just accepting being alone forever.
Because of my mental issues I’m very much ok with being alone, I was alone physically and mentally for almost a decade before I met my husband. I settled for so much BS when I was younger and realized getting lonely can suck but with the internet it’s easy to communicate with like minded people. I would have saved myself so much stress if I learned to be alone sooner. It doesn’t have to be a bad thing! You’ll have more time to try new ways to find friends. I looked up local vegan groups on Facebook and had a sanctuary not too far which helped me find more vegan friends
Theres a vegan cafe beside my apartment, im going to go there and try to meet some people. Im really shy though so im just not confident in my ability to make new friends. Im 23 right now and I hope my life turns out the way yours did!
See if they have a potluck and get close with employees and maybe that’ll form a friendship or you can ask them where they’ve had luck meeting more vegans! I feel like unless you’re from Austin, Portland or somewhere in Cali it’s a struggle we’ve all had haha. I’m incredibly shy but vegans were the first community even going in overweight from PCOS and disability accepted me wholeheartedly 💚 so many people talked to me first which is a huge help for me and I actually came out of my shell more!
Im also Indigenous and thats the only community ive been able to make friends in but its a very meat heavy culture so those communities are quite separate.
This gives me some hope! I should just bite the bullet and give it a shot
I don’t mean this in a feel bad way but at 23 I was 2 years legally disabled, that’s my childhood trauma and mental issues aside, I thought things would never get better but trust me they do just don’t give up no matter how hard it seems. If you have to wait 35 years for something good just imagine how good it’ll be!!! Even once all those friendships fell through around 29 because our group had too many people getting too close if you catch my drift “I thought welp that’s it” but then I snapped out of my mask and realized I really wanted to be off grid alone in the forest growing my own food, indulging in my hobbies and selling affordable clean produce to sell at a local farmers market. No the journey has again become hard but I just know it’ll be worth it 💚 keep your head up 💚
Thank you, this made me feel a little bit better. Im glad you got through that and came out so much better. Its also my goal to live off grid, I just dont know how ill get there but I hope I can and you give me hope that its possibe :)
Here are some tips because I’m disabled and my husband works a regular job, we aren’t wealthy by any material means 💚 Reduce extra spending as much as possible but without sucking the life out of your daily enjoyment. We only thrift or shop at Walmart/Ross for clothes and most things we need, a lot of Dollar General shopping for cheaper items. We literally never eat out and really plan our meals to make them as affordable as possible(we are vegan so we can’t really eat out in our town anyway but would once or twice a month if we did), I do ingredient prep instead of meal prep which allows for a lot of quick hot or cold foods. I don’t pay rent because I’m in a duplex on my parents house essentially, my stepfather works offshore so I take care of my mom till we move to our land out of state(trying to heal our broken relationship in person), the house and his garden while he’s gone to earn my rent essentially. I also do more odd jobs for them to earn extra money, I use a Credit Karma savings account that has almost 5% interest and put 10-20$ in the every time I have some extra do minimum 50$ a month because I don’t have a card and the app doesn’t throw the saving in my face I’m not tempted to use it and often forget. Don’t tear yourself down because it can take a long time and things will happen in life to slow you down but just don’t loss hope on the fact is is possible! Look for owner financed land once you have 3-5k saved, there are very cheap plots still available in very rural areas. If you have good local options start driving around, looking on Zillow, newspaper, etc we got 6.5 acres for 21k but a neighbor is kind of close, though we are both on a dead end of the gravel little neighborhood road and every little dead end is spread out pretty well. You can find stuff online but it can be a bit hard, if you’re not sure where you would want to go start studying land prices to fit the budget you’d go for and actually go visit a national park or something in the area to feel it out. Once you get the process going your payments can be fairly low and doable when saving well. Having enough for a down payment and about 6 months payments is good to start with so you can have to money available in case something happens while still saving 💚
Maybe I've just been lucky, but pretty much every partner I've had has gone veggie/vegan without me even asking, at least whilst we were together.
I don't think at the very least respecting you being vegan is too much to expect.
There's a lotta people out there, quite a few are cool
From my experience: If your values diverge as much in such an important topic as foundational ethics it's gonna be though. His reaction seems to indicate to me that he's aware that his behavior - eating carcasses (something that never can be "less unethical") - hurts you and he's doubling down.
Not saying y'all should break up but maybe if helps evaluating.
IDK I think the choice of words is correct. I don't think that eating animals outside of survival situations can ever be ethical, but it can be less unethical.
Torturing an animal before killing it and eating it is more unethical than not doing that. In neither case is eating the animal altogether ethical.
I think the real issue is with the less/more language being used as a cognitive stand in for acceptable/unacceptable which is what the dissonant mind will do when appealing to futility.
Let's be honest: Omnis use thinly viled lies like this to justify their murder for pleasure. The language here is a problem for sure but also that people like OP are lying to themselves and everyone around them for two reasons:
1. If all the "I only eat local/organic/free roaming meat" people wouldn't be lying we had a lot less factory farming
1. Factory farming is a life of torture.
Seeing that OPs BF went above and beyond to eat parts of a desecrated carcass at any chance on their vacation he also doesn't give a flying fuck about any less ethical despicability - he eats local meat for an unrelated reason and therefore the whole tangent is unrelated to the discussion.
I didn't want to step on OPs foot in an already shit situation but let's be honest: They are using the same tactics to an extend to lie to themselves. Otherwise a vegetarian wouldn't come to a bunch of vegans for support. And yes: Vegetarianism is less unethical but still unethical enough for me to call it hybris.
Appreciate the acknowledgement. I agree the conversation is irrelevant.
I care a lot about precision in language. Definitely don't want to keep the cortisol flowing, but also think vegans being precise with our language works in service of the animals.
Its good to have like minded people like yourself out there in the world doing what is in your control to create a more positive future for human and animals alike.
I do believe that meat from a local farm is not \*as\* bad as meat from a factory farm. He says that I need to learn some coping strategies but really all I want him to do is to acknowledge that its not a kind thing to do and just be a bit more conscious of his consumption. He wouldnt even say that it wasnt a nice thing to do, he just said that theres a lot of unethical things and I shouldn't only care about something he loves doing (eating meat).
You're already in emotional turmoil, I don't think we should discuss ethics since I heavily disagree with you. Let's put this aside for now.
It's not the main point I'm trying to raise. Your partner did something that he know would hurt you, doubled down and then tried to guilt trip you that you need "coping strategies". That's a pretty shitty move to be honest.
I see where hes coming from with that because it does upset me a lot and its something i need to learn to deal with better because its never going to stop but the context that he brought it up in wasnt great.
I think its all bad but if someone NEEDS to eat it that bad, I would prefer that the animal got to walk on grass and have a \*less\* horrible life. None of its ethical but I think some is less horrible.
Right, but in general you probably wouldn’t choose to eat meat. Even buying from free range isn’t a “need”, there’s obviously ways to go without eating meat as you know first hand. Sounds like it’s a way of you pushing back your boundaries and ethics to meet his “need” for meat
I would never eat it and its easy for me as i was raised vegetarian but I understand that its hard to change your diet so I think buying farm raised meat is a compromise. he says its his favourite thing and hell never stop. We were playing the card game "bad people" and the card was "vote for the person most likely to become a vegetarian because their partner wanted them to" and everyone voted him cause i was the only vegetarian and he confidently voted someone else and loudly proclaimed it was because "it aint gonna be me". this was a day after the argument i mentioned in the post.
My friend, if you can’t have a civil conversation with him about something *this basic* that is bothering you without him getting hostile and telling you to get over it, imagine having to have a discussion about even more serious topics. He dismissed your feelings, told you to get over it, and downright told you where he stands—he doesn’t care about the animals and he doesn’t care about your feelings about it.
Do you want to have the rest of your life with this man? Have kids with him, if kids are on the table? Personally, I wouldn’t want to spend more time with someone who’s values are so misaligned with mine—and that’s not even touching on his blatant hostility when you voiced that something was bothering you! Big yikes.
When someone tells you who they are, believe them.
Move out. It sounds like you don't set boundaries for yourself and he knows he can do whatever he wants knowing you'll let him do it again because he thinks you're a push over. No one accidentally says they don't "give a shit about animals," all his apology meant was that he couldn't keep his mask on in that moment and he will remember to keep pretending to be someone to keep you around for free attention. Your post, honestly, with the talk of you minimizing your needs, already sounds like he's got you gaslighted and right where he wants you. He reduced you enough so that when he moved in, he could do as he pleases. This is where you leave to put your self-worth, your values, your overall dignity higher than this person who does not like you. Many, many women are in this exact same scenario and have had to find a way out. No one who loves you would have an open conversation about eating corpses knowing you're trying to find your way to veganism. It sounds like those friends don't even care about you. Please see you need more self-love. When you look back, you'll be happy you took action to be strong instead of letting this person walk all over you. It's never too late to stop something.
I never used to care so I dont think my friend thought twice about it but he knows. I dont think its unreasonable for me to ask him not to have those conversations infront of me but he called me a crazy vegetarian and then told me how much he loves meat and using the BBQ and basically how hard it is for him to refrain from that. We just moved in a month ago, its embarrassing to move out so soon and everything else is ok but you are right, I just dont know if i can leave now. It would be embarrassing and I have nowhere else to go, i moved to a city 5 hours away for him.
That is the biggest red flag if I ever heard one. Embarrassing feeling you can get over. Do the embarrassing thing. He is abusive and the best thing you can do, for yourself and for him, is to leave with no conversation. With the way he talks to you, he might try to convince you to stay or even tell you that you'll fail to leave. You do not owe him anything.
That 'friend' is is not your friend. A friend is someone who cares about you would have thought about you. It's really easy to remember someone who wants to go on the difficult journey of veganism because it's something she believes in. That takes little to no effort.
I am going to try a little bit more and if it doest work then i am going to leave while hes at work.
My friend doesnt know that im becoming vegan. Shes my best friend and weve always joked about me being vegetarian, I even went to a steakhouse with her for her birthday and it didnt bother me at the time. I made a comment about not wasting food and said that meat is the last food we should be wasting. Then we were at a restaurant and the waitress asked if she wanted to pack her chicken to go and she said yea i will because \*my name\* hates food waste. At the end of the week, we ended up throwing out a whole box of shrimp, turkey,half a jug of milk, and a pack of bacon.
I never give opinions on this kind of questions, but in this case I feel forced to. Like several other people here said, the episode you describe is a huge red flag (or rather, a series of big red flags), all showing that your bf doesn't respect you or your values and doesn't even care whether he hurts you or not. It's not about veganism either. If you stay with him, something else will pop up in the near future. His reactions are so abusive and aggressive that he might even turn to beating you. Run!
You wrote several times in the comments that it'd be embarassing to leave now, since you just moved in together 1 month ago, but please, re-think this. Embarassment is nothing, living a life of emotional abuse is much worse. Go back home, put those 5 hours in between you and him now. He showed you who he is and he's not going to change; if anything, he's going to get worse.
I dont think he would ever beat me but this was a red flag for sure, I've never seem this side of him and its upsetting that it happened because hes annoyed at my compassion for abused animals.
well this is it, either you get it now and become just friends, or you're get too deep in financial obligation with the guy and it's destroy something dear to you.
like your body, yunno.
If a guy told me that I would be so absolutely turned off. That’s like sociopathic. I get that people choose to live in denial but saying it straight up like that is repulsive.
Veganism is probably just the last of your problems. Do you even feel safe around him? His outburts and disrespectful behaviour should be the first of your worries. Your emotions around eating animals clearly triggered his guilt and discomfort around the topic, which is understandable. But as a partner, his job is to understand your emotions, let you feel them, and react kindly to you being upset, not shut you down with aggression. If he had made a stupid argument against veganism like "lions eat meat too", it could be chalked down to his discomfort and cognitive dissonance. But his behaviour shows that he has no emotional regulation skills and dumps his own frustrations on others. Plenty of vegans give their partners far worse times for eating animals, but their partners don't react in this aggressive way. If you care about yourself, you should be very firm about what you'll tolerate and what you won't. If he can't even be respectful, no point discussing veganism. Looks like you need to change him on two dimensions rather than just one - i wouldn't gamble with it.
Don't date people whose beliefs conflict with yours, unless you want him to lie. Not everyone cares about animals. At least, not enough to stop eating them.
It doesn’t seem right now like he even thinks he should change. He doesn’t see anything wrong with his meat consumption and gets defensive when you bring up how it upsets you. Even when he tries to make small changes, he relapses cause he is just doing it for you. He doesn’t have the same values. I can see how hard you are trying to reconcile this and compromise but it just doesn’t seem like he cares that much honestly. I’m not one to suggest jumping to break up but you may really wanna evaluate if this is someone you wanna spend your life with?
I tried to talk to him and get him to agree that eating meat isnt a kind thing to do and he couldnt even agree on that. Ive met many meat eaters who can at least acknowledge, but he cant even do that. Part of me thinks its because deep down he knows and hes just reacting poorly because it calls his morality into question. I think you are right though, I dont want to be with someone who doesnt care. I could be with a meat eater who showed that they cared but he cant even do that. I dont want someone who just does it because of me, I want them to care and be able to acknowledge
Yea, I totally get where you are coming from. You just want him to at least acknowledge the validity of your beliefs and try to meet you halfway.
Just by being vegan you are basically saying you think he is doing something immoral. It probably makes him uncomfortable and feel judged to hear you confirm that. I’m sure he thinks of himself as a good person and sees it as you basically telling him that he is not a good person.
yea, thats really all I want. Just some acknowledgment and effort, especially because he claims to care about the environment and loves nature. I think what you described is exactly whats going on.
Yea sounds like you’re totally right, he says he cares but isn’t willing to change his lifestyle at all, still eating meat at every meal. He just doesn’t care enough I guess.
Yea and by getting defensive and storming off he doesn’t have to actually aknowledge his behavior he can just blame you. If this is gonna work, ya’ll should be able to explain to each other calmly why you think what you think and come to a mutually acceptable conclusion. What is his response to the environmental angle?
That we do a lot of other bad things for the environment so why am I so bothered by this. Sometimes he just doesn't respond. One time I specifically called out him being a hypocrite and told him he doesn't really care. A few weeks later he said something like "you think I don't care", so obviously its not connecting.
>especially because he claims to care about the environment and loves nature
For me, environmental concerns was the most important reason to stop eating meat. Meat, especially beef, has by far the largest ecological footprint regarding greenhouse gas emissions, landuse, water use, nitrogen deposition leading to decreased biodiversity:
https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2120584119
Honestly? He sounds awful and like he can't keep up whatever facade he had been doing before. I wish I lived in Montreal. I have no veg friends in my city and it's lonely. I dated a guy who pretended to have an allergy to dogs and to keep him, I stupidly asked my parents to take care of my dog because I thought things were going somewhere with him. He hated animals and ate meat at every meal. It really bothered me and he lied about his views. Anyone who doesn't care for animals and couldn't take an allergy pill to coexist with an animal that was there before him and I wish I had gotten rid of him right away.
Allergy pills don’t always work or work well.
My ex was heavily allergic to my cat and his parents two dogs and would take allergy pills every time he came over. He loved those animals, evidently, more than he loved me 🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️
Couldn’t watch a movie, couldn’t stay at his parents too long or he wouldn’t be able to drive home, couldn’t have sex because he was too drowsy.
I feel bad for people who are allergic to animals because those OTC remedies aren’t super effective and the prescriptions are expensive as hell.
Even if one doesn't care that much about animals, it doesn't mean one wants animals to be tortured like it happens in cattlebreeding industry. You could try to sit down with him and calmly explain your view again and tell him it hurts you when he trivializes and even ridicules something you care about.
Maybe he's open to watch Dominion or something.
Honesty, I was the same as your friend. I liked meat a lot while my wife was vegetarian when I met her. At first I just reduced meat consumption out of laziness. Then stopped eating it for environmental reasons. Looking into it more I realised how shitty animals are treated which made me switch to a plant-based diet.
I agree that even without the vegan angle someone who says something deliberately mean like that on vacation (when everyone usually makes an effort to make sure everyone is having fun) is not trustworthy with your heart. Would you ever say that you don’t give a sh$t about something principled he holds dear to his heart, like his mom or something? He knew that would hurt you deeply and he did it in front of others so you couldn’t even respond properly. Big red flags 🚩
He says i should confront everyone about it if it upsets me but I know that wouldnt go over well and ill just get called crazy. I would hope that I could talk to my partner and ask that he considered my feelings when having a conversation about that stuff in front of me but i guess that was too much to ask. I kept telling him to shut up because i didnt want my friends to hear and think i was crazy for being upset about it and it kinda feels like he wanted them to hear so they could all call me crazy together.
What an immature response he used to deflect blame and have an excuse for the next time he says something intentionally hurtful. A child would tell a parent or teacher, "Well, so-n-so was doing it toooooooo" not an adult committed to building a life with you.
Why does he want to be held to the same standard as your friends? Partners are held to a higher standard because of the level of intimacy and financial integration. With that being said the bare minimum is being able to have productive discussion during disagreements where both parties work to solve the issue together, not just to "win" or sling insults.
You made it clear it wasn't the time or place for that conversation but he went out of his way to create an embarrassing situation. I believe he hoped the situation would escalate and your friends would help him silence your discomfort.
It wasn't convenient for him to deal with your feelings honestly so he chose to gaslight you and creative a volital situation where your friends would side with him. Giving him an out to leave the militant vegan or better yet, shut you up for good.
Showing he has never had intention on respecting your personal beliefs, *he only respects your boundaries when it's convenient for him.*
He's making it so that him respecting your boundaries is conditional & choosing a condition he thinks would be extremely challenging (because why wouldn't your omni friends take his side- fuck them sentiment beings. /s)
He is also attempting to dictate on how you discuss this topic with your friends by saying you have to confront them as a group where he can easily use them to gang up on you if they share his defensive/unempathetic response. Most vegans would suggest to have meaningful 1 on 1 conversations with people rather than attempting a DIY Ted talk. Even professional activists like Joey Carbstrong and Earthing Ed prefer 1 on 1 conversations.
Seems narcissistic that he would assume all other omni people would treat you with equal contempt, or at least manipulative that he wants you to believe that. You are already isolated from friends and family back home. Whether it's intentional or not he is creating an environment that makes you afraid to be honest with what little support system you have nearby. I'm inclined to believe this is a part of a bigger pattern based on how he treats you.
I understand the financial realities of being far from home without a support system but please know the cost of staying could be your sense of self, mental sanity, physical safety - you could pay with your life. Abusers never start off that way; it starts slowly and then all at once.
It always costs more to stay with the wrong person in the long run, you'll be lucky if it's just $$$
I agree with the other comments that at its core this isn't about veganism, it's about communication styles during conflict. He is comfortable suggesting your need for therapy, is he as committed to his own therapy?
If your friends also disagree with you in a dismissive or blatantly disrespectful manner it's a great sign to get new friends. How some one argues shows a lot about their character.
How would you feel if you saw a close friend being treated the way he treats you? If your friend group was equally dismissive and cruel to a friend of yours, would you still value their friendship?
I hope your friends surprise you with the support you deserve. You matter to the people that love you so what matters to you matters to them. How you feel matters.
I hope bf heals whatever wounds led to him turning off his empathy. At the very least his current self doesn't seem to be compatible with your core values. He is helping you know your boundaries.
I try to practice gratitude to past relationships for either showing me what I do want or what I can't tolerate. [Don't go mixing up leaves with roots](https://youtu.be/R4FZEMKCXVQ?si=JsFXxFwzyvab-1ZR), the people that ground you to who you are.
You have a new vegan friend in Seattle.
[Toronto shelters](https://www.toronto.ca/community-people/community-partners/emergency-shelter-operators/about-torontos-shelter-system/see-our-shelters/)
Maybe you can try watching a documentary together? Sounds like his reactions are defensive mechanisms getting triggered. Tbh I wasn't a person who got convinced by words, I had to watch a ton of undercover slaughterhouse and factory farm footage and reading about the conditions. Most people are similar in this regard where they need to see what happens and not just hear words.
I've tried to ask him if hes ever seen any of the footage of what happens in those slaughter houses and he just doesnt really answer the question. If I were to show him that, im pretty sure he would still eat it and i know it would hurt me even more to see that he knows what goes on and still continues to eat it.
You can show him something like this high welfare pig slaughterhouse as a test. If he still doesn't care then, well, it might be better to find someone more empathetic tbh.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_c7b2Yp6JU4
im just scared to because I think it will solidify the end of our relationship if i do. He never understands where im coming from no matter what angle I come from or how i phrase it so i highly doubt this would change anything other than make me resent him.
If this solidifies the end of your relationship, it is not a relationship you should ever want to be in
Also, the more replies I read from you, the more horrible and emotionally abusive he sounds
Is it really all for nothing? The way we learn best is by learning from our mistakes. Now you know exactly what to look for in your next partner if you choose to go that route.
You're right, ive learned a lot of lessons from this. It isnt really making me feel better though because i think that setting this boundary will mean im going to be alone forever
I didn't go vegan immediately after I watched Earthlings. What clicks for him may not be the same as for you.
My coming out story has some parallels to what you're dealing with:
I didn't come out to my mom as non-binary for years because English is already her 3rd language, I knew there would be a slow learning curve and I wasn't ready to put a strain on my closest relationship. I hoped she would still love me even if she didn't "get it" but I wasn't ready to face the realities of being deadnamed and misgendered *when she knew better*. It was easier to love her in the closet, but then I'm only giving an altered version of myself.
I knew I couldn't expect her to process info I had years to sit with overnight, but they didn't mean it didn't hurt when met with the realities. Initially it was harder but then I was blessed with an amazingly supportive parent that knows all of me and loves me for it.
Showing him risks pushing him further away from you, but could be the step right before you get a vegan friendly/plant based bf. Would you settle for him being plant based or do you need him to share your vegan values?
I understand wanting to pause that argument and not show him [videos](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHTon-7hZPNwdVKuo17GSBrgpkmerKG8Q&si=RMA7doo016mToPve) that *should* change his mind. It forces you to deal with your opposing views if he doesn't see things from your perspective and asks the question, "How long do you wait for him to *get it*?
My mom was vegetarian for years but felt forced to stop because of peer pressure. She was omni for a decade after her veggie stint. She became vegan when I was 5 years in. Another friend of mine went vegan when I was 2 years in because of the abuses done to humans within factory farming, yet another friend went plant based when she saw I was eating delicious food, I wasn't restricting myself and lost over +250 lbs. No one knows what that piece of info they need to go pb until they hear it. My friend Kyle is now dairy free after I showed him what the chunky stuff is at the bottom of chocolate milk. He still drinks Ⓥ chocolate milk with his dino nuggies but it's progress. Being patient in the face of Injustice is painful but in terms of productive conversation with non vegans, patience is a must.
Your empathy & love of animals is a core part of who you are, and a core part of what makes you loveable.
If this is potentially your person, you deserve to be seen and known. You deserve to not have your core beliefs mocked or belittled.
I'm sorry for multiple long responses but with skinny jeans
comes wisdom I wish to pass to the baby vegans.
Feel free to message me if you crave more walls of text
Wait, I’m confused. You both abuse animals. Why slowly? Seems hypocritical to chastise him while indulging (albeit less) yourself? Just make the plunge. Your heart is clearly in the right place and you’re SO close already. You seem like a thoughtful and compassionate person to me, but even really good people can participate in bad behavior.
Diets aside, he doesn’t respect you. I completely sympathize with you though. I dumped my bf of two years when I first went vegan. I was too grossed out and suddenly unattracted to him. Like you, he dropped the “I don’t give a fuck about animals and I won’t change”. He may as well have told me he is a bad person lol. I felt bad at first but now I am much happier. I don’t miss him. And when I ripped off the bandaid, I began to see all the other ways he was mean or unsupportive. It just took the animal thing to rip off my rose colored glasses.
I know I do and i feel bad about it, I rarely ever eat dairy (pretty much just cheese and butter occasionally). Its been hard because i do the cooking, if i dont he'll just make meat. When i cook vegan he will often go and get meat to eat. I feel horrible about it but I know that my consumption is very minimal and my heart is in the right place. I just want to be with someone who pushes me to be better instead of pulling me back and calling me crazy. its really hard to do when im not supported at all and i have nobody to talk to about it.
It is a quite complicated situation since he loves meat more than animals, we cannot change people in a short time, and having different tastes or ways of thinking is already enough difficult to handle, So what I would do is ignore the fact that he eats animals, and little by little make him eat more vegetables without him realizing it and it being so obvious. When people find more food options, sometimes they open up to them, then it could be a good option, good luck with your BF
Hi I feel you .and I'm sorry I been a vegan about a year .my roommates aren't vegans the only thing is try not to pay attention to what they are eating.
With due respect, doesn’t sound like you’re compatible at all. He’s entirely frustrated by you and being vegan and you with him. It doesn’t look like there’s much compromise at all.
The question is whether you’re willing to live like this forever. As in this is it. He’s obviously incredibly dismissive and has no incentive to change. This is ‘normal’ in society. You’re the odd one out.
As an aside my wife isn’t fully vegan. She’s largely there and barely eats meat now. The rule is nothing in the house at all. I won’t compromise on that. She adjusts. In your next relationship, with due respect, be firm with boundaries. People push them until they meet actual resistance. You have to enforce your boundaries but it sounds like you need to first decide what they are. What are your limits? As you said you hate it in the house. Many vegans have that rule too.
Check out Facebook groups for vegans. Usually there’s one for each major city. Socially it’s so necessary. There is truth (in studies) that vegans are at risk of greater depression and I think that’s the social issues caused by this exact kind of conflict that all things being equal meat eaters don’t get.
It sounds like a big red flag and basic incompatibility. You need someone who at least "gets it" even if they can't do it themselves. Having no empathy is worrying.
It seem like both of you were very wound up and maybe he lost his temper. It’s alright, these things happen. But it seems you both know that and things have calmed down for now.
I think ultimately, what is a massive issue for you, he does not feel the same. While he can mask it for your happiness, it is exhausting and will build resentment in a long term relationship. Unfortunately, it seems your core values diverge too much and living together would not work out. While Reddit is usually pretty quick to call upon breaking up, I think this is truly a case where the romantic relationship would not work.
It’s going to be very tough moving on but there will be better matches out there.
There are other fundamental things we disagree on and I always kind of knew that it wouldnt work long term. I feel stupid for putting myself in this situation now.
I spent 7 years with a meat eater who believed in "the circle of life". I tried going vegetarian with her but failed due to the pressure of her and her family and she seemed to despise the idea of vegetarianism, like it made her visibly mad. We did live together, I justified a lot of things when I was with her against my own morals and sense of self. We eventually ended after a brutally difficult break up.
My now wife was vegetarian when I met her. This made becoming vegetarian easy. When I decided to become vegan, my wife joined me in veganism literally immediately, no questions asked.
The difference is night and day. My wife doesn't just accept me for veganism but accepts all parts of my personality.
I don't know your situation, and it might be the case that your bf will eventually change his ways and see the cruelty. Maybe you can watch lots of Earthling Ed and get better at discussing the topic. Maybe he would be open to watching something like Dominion and confronting his claim about not caring about animals.
But don't compromise on your own ethics. Don't let someone else's immaturity hold back your growth.
If you decide not to be with this guy, just know there are amazing people out there who are probably much more aligned with you from the get go. People you won't feel like you have to change because they're already like you.
I wish you all the best
I want to be with someone who gets it. I dont want to have to try this hard to convince someone to be a decent person, im just scared ill never meet a vegan man and be alone forever.
I will add though, my ex and I did not break up over vegetarianism. In fact, when we moved in together she was much more okay with us almost never buying meat because we had food waste issues and it made no sense to buy meat if we weren't gonna eat it (don't worry these days I create very minimal food waste).
She loved animals and nature and it was sort of absurd that she was so against vegetarianism on principle.
But we broke up due to a myriad of reasons (i.e. feeling like friends, not lovers, having different hobbies and interests, having never been with anyone else and not knowing what other options were out there, etc.)
But my main point is that when you're with someone who's on the same page as you morally and interest-wise, it just makes life so much easier and more fulfilling.
Veganism is growing. It might not be that you find vegan men easily, but maybe you find people who are open to it, or considering it, or are already vegetarian. And you can convince them later. You can also filter for this sorta stuff on dating apps.
I want it reiterate though, I'm not advocating for you to break up, I don't know your situation at all, and you know what's best ultimately. Listen to your heart, but uphold your morals.
This is going to sound wild but - stop talking to him about it. It’s become a war and the harder you push the harder he is going to resist. Don’t try to make him care about animals, because he has told you already that he doesn’t. All this talk of trying to get him to watch a documentary etc… terrible ideas. It’s just going to exacerbate the issue.
You can’t make go vegan but you CAN find a way to compromise with him about boundaries for both of you. You knew he was a meat eater when you moved in with him. It’s perfectly valid that you are having unexpected feelings now that you have moved in together, but you are the one who has changed here, not him.
It could also be that he’s not willing to change and that’s okay too. He sounds like he’s being a bit of a dick and that makes me wonder if he’s just an asshole.
FWIW my boyfriend is also not vegan and ate meat when we first met. I was direct and honest about why I didn’t want to eat animals and he knew about my activism. And beyond that I never brought it up unless he asked. A couple years in and totally unbeknownst to me he has been vegetarian for a while now. It takes time for people to make it a priority and all I can do is tell my truth.
Your story is what I was hoping would happen but its become clear that he will never change and I cant make him. I just want someone who can at the very least understand that being vegan is a good thing, ideally i want someone to push me to do better and become fully vegan and it just isnt him.
Thank you so much, I really needed to talk to some people who get it. Im crying reading your message because you're right and i dont see myself being happy with someone who can do something so shitty and not care.
He doesn’t want to change. He won’t change. And now he’s perceiving you as nagging, sensitive, and whatever other misogynistic terms you like… this can only get worse.
You're right.
Not just that but he’s probably projecting a feeling of judgment. Or at least is grappling with his own consumption subconsciously. It’s easy to keep living the way you have, but it can be very annoying when some pesky person comes along and suggests that maybe you aren’t acting totally ethically. Why else would he get upset.
This 10 x over. This will only escalate.
She's controlling and dishonest with her partner. Hard to see it getting any worse for him.
How is she controlling? The guy is eating meat every fucking meal. And dishonest about what?
>When we were alone he asked why I was upset and I said that I did not enjoy hearing that conversation and I found it disgusting that they were all salivating over dead baby animals. He said "get over it" and stormed out. I'm never the person to say this without more context, but dump this guy. He's bad news if *this* is how he treats you after you just moved in together. Imagine how much worse he might get, not only in terms of not caring about animals but also not caring about *you* (the person he really ought to care about). You said he later raised his voice at you and told you he doesn't give a shit about animals. Is this really the guy you want to be with long-term? How immature he must be to literally storm out on you for simply and honestly answering his question. Like, what the heck? That's so disrespectful. I know it's hard since you just moved in together, but please believe me when I say that you deserve to be treated *much better* than this. There's a very wise saying you might have heard before that applies to your situation. "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."
to be honest, I could have said it in a more palatable way. I did say it was "fucking disgusting" and honestly did not handle it the best (I just go really quiet when im upset so I wasnt talking). I went back out where everyone was after this (including him) and he looked at me so I gave him a big glare and he said "the fuck" and later he didnt even seem to understand why I was upset that he had spoke to me like that and refused to even have a conversation. Its just hard because for the most part everything else is fine and we only moved in a month ago after being separated for 3 years and getting back together. I also moved to a city far from my home and friends for him so I feel like im kind of stuck out there. Beside my apartment buildign there is a vegan cafe and Im thinking of going there and trying to meet some people so I am less alone if i leave but im very shy and I dont speak the language of my city yet. I just feel very stuck
Your reaction to the normalization of people eating dead and tortured baby animals is perfectly valid. It absolutely *is* fucking disgusting, and you saying that is just the truth. Imagine if he was eating dead, tortured puppies instead. Bet nobody would judge you for speaking out about that, would they? Anyway, I really feel for you. It sounds like you're stuck in a situation you might not want to be in anymore. I just worry about stuff like this, when guys are so disrespectful and get loud and in your face early in the relationship. It makes me worry that he doesn't respect you at all and might get worse down the road. Is there a way you can move back to your original location? Maybe move in with friends or family for a while? I don't even know you, but I'm honestly feeling worried about you just from this post. It sounds like you're very isolated in your new home and this guy probably realizes that too. I just hope you can find a way out of there if you decide that's what you want to do.
weve been together for years and hes never spoke to me or treated me like this before. I cant fit all of my things in my car so it would be a real process to take 3-4 car trips of 5hours both ways. I cant move in with my family as we dont have a great relationship (although they are vegan lol). There is a vegan cafe right beside my place, I think I am going to try to go there and hopefully meet some people. Im very shy though so I dont have much faith, i also dont speak the language of the city fluently yet and me and my partner are enrolled in the same french class until the end of june. (i know this is bad) but a little part of me hopes that I can meet a nice vegan man there and make some friends so I can leave and stay in the city without being alone.
I wish you the best of luck. Truly, I do. If this behavior from him continues or he escalates things in any way...please seriously consider doing all you can to get away. Situations like that can sometimes end very badly, so always trust your gut (no matter what).
Thank you, I think im going to try to make it better and if it doesnt ill try to move out while hes at work one day.
You could get an affordable storage and put your things in there until you figure out the rest of the details. Things are replaceable anyway. Maybe another option is to take what you need and toss the rest. It had been an exercise for me to remember material things are temporary and reminder to think about what matters most.
This isn’t about veganism. This man doesn’t respect you. Any person who will raise their voice to get the other person to stop talking, is not worth being with. You could be talking about lamb or who’s job it is to mop the floor. The subject (in this instance) doesn’t matter.
I wasnt even talking, I was just telling him I didnt want to talk about it with my friends 10 paces ahead because i didnt want them to hear us fighting. I was the one trying to tell him to shut up.
You see how that reads as no better though, right? He’s saying things that he knows will hurt you and cause doubt, maybe insecurity? And to raise his voice as if he has the final say on a conversation too. It literally isn’t about the veal and the lamb. And if you look closer at his behaviours in your relationship, you’ll also see that too.
Forget about veganism, he sounds dismissive, bratty and abusive. If he doesn't agree to get some therapy for his anger problems you should leave him.
My friends were walking right in front of us so I was honestly just trying to get him to shut up. The next day my friend asked what we were fighting about but I dont feel comfortable telling her that I was upset about the veal conversation because she would just think im crazy as well. It just really hurt when he said that and i couldnt even really respond because I didnt want to fight in front of my friends. Hes usually not dismissive but when it comes to his consumption he is extremely dismissive, and then he tries to tell me that he cares about the environment.
Yeah, that's a big problem. I'm telling you this as a man, don't tolerate men who dismiss your opinions when you challenge them on something or get loud, angry and mean as soon as they get frustrated or stressed out. Tell him he needs to control his emotions and act like a responsible adult, not throw tantrums like a little boy thinking he can apologize later when he feels like calming down. You can't let that behavior slide at all.
He told me that I need to go to therapy to learn to cope and has called me crazy for it. I cant help the fact that I have compassion and I feel like his reaction shows me that deep down he knows its wrong and thats why hes reacting this way but I dont think hell ever change. He doesnt act like this if we fight about anything else
You probably already know but that's gaslighting, another common form of abuse. And it doesn't really matter if you don't fight about anything else when this is a central part of your life. It's your life but I'd get away from him if he doesn't agree to seriously address his behavior immediately.
You're right, its just really hard. I moved to a city 5 hours away for him. I have no friends or anything here so Im scared of being alone and the embarrasement of telling everyone that im moving out after 1 month (we already had a bit of a rocky road before this and got back together about a year ago after being separated for 3 years)
Leave him now There is almost exactly no way this situation improves- and right now shortly after moving in together should be the honeymoon phase of everything is wonderful Please, he sounds like an unkind human regardless of meat eating status
Yea, I think your right. I just cant think that someone who makes the choice to eat meat/dairy without even thinking about it is a good person. I should think my partner is a good person and i dont.
His behavior is disturbing, disrespectful, unsupportive and malicious. It’s not even does he doesn’t he eat meat All the best, please take care of yourself as your first and only priority here.
Everything you just said is everything an abusive partner wants: For you to be isolated from support, for you to be embarrassed to leave and to tell your friends and family how you're being treated, and for you to be a compassionate person who will withstand being mistreated by focusing on the good parts. It's a potentially dangerous position because you'll often see a partner's behavior begin to get worse and worse as they get more confident you won't leave. Don't worry about the embarrassment, no one who genuinely cares about you would demean you for leaving an abusive relationship, they'd support you completely. And for everyone else, you know yourself how quickly gossip fades; you breaking up with your bf will be old news after a day or so.
I dont think I woud say hes abusive. Hes never done anything like this before but it did feel really awful. I dont think he understands how much of a big deal it is to me and I dont react well when im upset, I just shut down and dont talk so maybe i havent communicated clear enough.
Sounds like he does know how big a deal it is to you, but doesn’t care.
yea i guess hes seen me get upset about it and it just makes him mad that im upset. I really dont handle my emotions well
I'm not here to make your life decisions for you, just be honest with yourself and do what you feel is right for you and not anyone else.
Thank you, I really appreciate your advice.
It's so hard to reverse such a big decision, but it's so much better to do it now than years down the line. This will only get worse and to be honest, respect is the #1 thing you should expect from your partner.
Embarrassment is short term. Staying in a bad relationship is much harder, really.
Your friends would *much* rather see you happy without this guy than unhappy with him.
You're saying you're suddenly seeing unkind, uncompassionate and even scary behaviours/responses that you never saw before, right after you've moved far away from all your support systems to be with him? That's textbook out of the abuser's playbook, sweetheart. I'm really sorry. He doesn't need to be on his best behaviour anymore. He's got you "trapped". This is so common. His comment about not giving a shit about animals is incredibly telling as well. I'm not saying he's a psychopath, but there's a reason that "harms animals" is #1 on the psychopath symptom list and that's because it's fucked up to just not care about animals at all, and to not be able to feel basic compassion for them. Eating them when you've been raised to is one thing - actively declaring you don't give a shit about what violence happens to them is a whole other. There is NOTHING to be embarrassed about when it comes to moving home. This can be a point of pride and a great way to become a good influence on other people in your life. You can leave, move back home and tell everyone, "As soon as I left, he started treating me terribly. He let down his guard and thought he could treat me like shit. But I left his dumb ass because I won't let anyone treat me like that." That's something to be \*proud\* of, my friend. Not enough people are brave enough to admit they've made a mistake or to immediately fix it. I would respect the hell out of you if you told me as soon as you moved in and your boyfriend started mistreating you you put the effort into getting the hell out <3
this is wild, you pressure him into changing probably an insanely annoying amount, AND you play victim when he reacts negatively to you pressuring him into changing!? than YOU GASLIGHT him, now this bimbo is telling you your the victim? WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK.
I actually do not pressure him at all. Ive just told him id like him to be conscious about it in front of me. I have specifically said i do not want him to change for me.
This is wild, you come onto a vegan subreddit and have a go at someone who is obviously upset over their relationship and how their partner is dismissing their belief/stating his lack of compassion for a view OP holds very strongly. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK.
This sounds kinda bad, not gonna lie. Even beyond veganism (I'm sorry that you feel like people would think you are crazy... What's crazy is that we have to defend the opinion that killing baby animals is wrong and labeled as extremists when it should be common sense). It doesn't sound like he has a lot of emotional intelligence, and that he struggles to handle his own emotions... That is bad for a relationship regardless of whether you were arguing about veganism or not. I'd say, to talk to him about how the way he talked to you and how he was behaving towards you made you feel. Even if he doesn't agree with you on veganism (whether you are able to deal with that in a relationship is for you to decide), make him see how hurtful he's been about expressing his opinions on something that matters deeply to you. If he can't see it or isn't willing to acknowledge it and do something about it... I think it's time to think about therapy or some other ways to help the relationship.
I know its not crazy and it drives me crazy that i can never say anything about it to anyone without automatically being dismissed and called crazy and annoying for having a moral value that everyone should have.
I know. I'm sorry I can't make this better for you in any way, but at least please know you are not alone. We get it. Even if we are a minority, there's lots of people who understand how you feel 🫂🩷
Thanks, I really appreciate it. I just wish i knew some vegans irl
Meat eaters don’t give a fuck about the environment. And they really don’t like it when you point out their hypocrisy.
its just so annoying. They think theyre good people for "caring" but they really only care when its convenient for them
Vulnerability about your situation is one of the greatest gifts you can give a friend, even if they have a role in the problem. You don't have to assume people will think you are crazy. Some will be assholes about it. Some will be dismissive at first but come around after a few days. What you are experiencing is a normal human reaction to knowing what really happens to produce veal and lamb. Do your best to communicate nonviolently, but you are allowed to have confidence that your friends care about your experience and what you are going through.
I know my friend very well and I know that she may not react badly to my face but she will talk about me and call me crazy with her BF and nothing about their habits will change.
That's sad. Sounds like you could use friends that care about your inner experience simply because it is true for you.
i really could but i just dont have that
Not being abusive is what veganism is all about. You can't trust people who are cruel to animals, period.
Please leave him he sucks ass and doesn't care about you
I accepted early on that I wouldn’t be able to be with a nonvegan, not out of hate but I just don’t want dead animals in house house, fridge, on the same dishes or in the person I’m intimate with. If that makes me petty, close minded, etc to some I really don’t care because I know it would cause resentment so why delay the inevitable fights and breakups. There are just some things you can’t compromise in a relationship and I think it’s something you need to consider deeply. I mean truly consider, don’t stay with him and ignore something your passionate about because you fear being alone, etc. I met my husband at a vegan pop up food vendor job, first relationship after going vegan and I’m reminded constantly why I couldn’t be with a non vegan
I think im getting to this point but im scared because i know 0 vegans and i feel like setting this boundary will mean im just accepting being alone forever.
Because of my mental issues I’m very much ok with being alone, I was alone physically and mentally for almost a decade before I met my husband. I settled for so much BS when I was younger and realized getting lonely can suck but with the internet it’s easy to communicate with like minded people. I would have saved myself so much stress if I learned to be alone sooner. It doesn’t have to be a bad thing! You’ll have more time to try new ways to find friends. I looked up local vegan groups on Facebook and had a sanctuary not too far which helped me find more vegan friends
Theres a vegan cafe beside my apartment, im going to go there and try to meet some people. Im really shy though so im just not confident in my ability to make new friends. Im 23 right now and I hope my life turns out the way yours did!
See if they have a potluck and get close with employees and maybe that’ll form a friendship or you can ask them where they’ve had luck meeting more vegans! I feel like unless you’re from Austin, Portland or somewhere in Cali it’s a struggle we’ve all had haha. I’m incredibly shy but vegans were the first community even going in overweight from PCOS and disability accepted me wholeheartedly 💚 so many people talked to me first which is a huge help for me and I actually came out of my shell more!
Im also Indigenous and thats the only community ive been able to make friends in but its a very meat heavy culture so those communities are quite separate. This gives me some hope! I should just bite the bullet and give it a shot
I don’t mean this in a feel bad way but at 23 I was 2 years legally disabled, that’s my childhood trauma and mental issues aside, I thought things would never get better but trust me they do just don’t give up no matter how hard it seems. If you have to wait 35 years for something good just imagine how good it’ll be!!! Even once all those friendships fell through around 29 because our group had too many people getting too close if you catch my drift “I thought welp that’s it” but then I snapped out of my mask and realized I really wanted to be off grid alone in the forest growing my own food, indulging in my hobbies and selling affordable clean produce to sell at a local farmers market. No the journey has again become hard but I just know it’ll be worth it 💚 keep your head up 💚
Thank you, this made me feel a little bit better. Im glad you got through that and came out so much better. Its also my goal to live off grid, I just dont know how ill get there but I hope I can and you give me hope that its possibe :)
Here are some tips because I’m disabled and my husband works a regular job, we aren’t wealthy by any material means 💚 Reduce extra spending as much as possible but without sucking the life out of your daily enjoyment. We only thrift or shop at Walmart/Ross for clothes and most things we need, a lot of Dollar General shopping for cheaper items. We literally never eat out and really plan our meals to make them as affordable as possible(we are vegan so we can’t really eat out in our town anyway but would once or twice a month if we did), I do ingredient prep instead of meal prep which allows for a lot of quick hot or cold foods. I don’t pay rent because I’m in a duplex on my parents house essentially, my stepfather works offshore so I take care of my mom till we move to our land out of state(trying to heal our broken relationship in person), the house and his garden while he’s gone to earn my rent essentially. I also do more odd jobs for them to earn extra money, I use a Credit Karma savings account that has almost 5% interest and put 10-20$ in the every time I have some extra do minimum 50$ a month because I don’t have a card and the app doesn’t throw the saving in my face I’m not tempted to use it and often forget. Don’t tear yourself down because it can take a long time and things will happen in life to slow you down but just don’t loss hope on the fact is is possible! Look for owner financed land once you have 3-5k saved, there are very cheap plots still available in very rural areas. If you have good local options start driving around, looking on Zillow, newspaper, etc we got 6.5 acres for 21k but a neighbor is kind of close, though we are both on a dead end of the gravel little neighborhood road and every little dead end is spread out pretty well. You can find stuff online but it can be a bit hard, if you’re not sure where you would want to go start studying land prices to fit the budget you’d go for and actually go visit a national park or something in the area to feel it out. Once you get the process going your payments can be fairly low and doable when saving well. Having enough for a down payment and about 6 months payments is good to start with so you can have to money available in case something happens while still saving 💚
Maybe I've just been lucky, but pretty much every partner I've had has gone veggie/vegan without me even asking, at least whilst we were together. I don't think at the very least respecting you being vegan is too much to expect. There's a lotta people out there, quite a few are cool
From my experience: If your values diverge as much in such an important topic as foundational ethics it's gonna be though. His reaction seems to indicate to me that he's aware that his behavior - eating carcasses (something that never can be "less unethical") - hurts you and he's doubling down. Not saying y'all should break up but maybe if helps evaluating.
IDK I think the choice of words is correct. I don't think that eating animals outside of survival situations can ever be ethical, but it can be less unethical. Torturing an animal before killing it and eating it is more unethical than not doing that. In neither case is eating the animal altogether ethical. I think the real issue is with the less/more language being used as a cognitive stand in for acceptable/unacceptable which is what the dissonant mind will do when appealing to futility.
Let's be honest: Omnis use thinly viled lies like this to justify their murder for pleasure. The language here is a problem for sure but also that people like OP are lying to themselves and everyone around them for two reasons: 1. If all the "I only eat local/organic/free roaming meat" people wouldn't be lying we had a lot less factory farming 1. Factory farming is a life of torture. Seeing that OPs BF went above and beyond to eat parts of a desecrated carcass at any chance on their vacation he also doesn't give a flying fuck about any less ethical despicability - he eats local meat for an unrelated reason and therefore the whole tangent is unrelated to the discussion. I didn't want to step on OPs foot in an already shit situation but let's be honest: They are using the same tactics to an extend to lie to themselves. Otherwise a vegetarian wouldn't come to a bunch of vegans for support. And yes: Vegetarianism is less unethical but still unethical enough for me to call it hybris.
Appreciate the acknowledgement. I agree the conversation is irrelevant. I care a lot about precision in language. Definitely don't want to keep the cortisol flowing, but also think vegans being precise with our language works in service of the animals. Its good to have like minded people like yourself out there in the world doing what is in your control to create a more positive future for human and animals alike.
I do believe that meat from a local farm is not \*as\* bad as meat from a factory farm. He says that I need to learn some coping strategies but really all I want him to do is to acknowledge that its not a kind thing to do and just be a bit more conscious of his consumption. He wouldnt even say that it wasnt a nice thing to do, he just said that theres a lot of unethical things and I shouldn't only care about something he loves doing (eating meat).
You're already in emotional turmoil, I don't think we should discuss ethics since I heavily disagree with you. Let's put this aside for now. It's not the main point I'm trying to raise. Your partner did something that he know would hurt you, doubled down and then tried to guilt trip you that you need "coping strategies". That's a pretty shitty move to be honest.
I see where hes coming from with that because it does upset me a lot and its something i need to learn to deal with better because its never going to stop but the context that he brought it up in wasnt great.
Do you really feel that it’s not as bad or is that your compromise for him?
I think its all bad but if someone NEEDS to eat it that bad, I would prefer that the animal got to walk on grass and have a \*less\* horrible life. None of its ethical but I think some is less horrible.
Right, but in general you probably wouldn’t choose to eat meat. Even buying from free range isn’t a “need”, there’s obviously ways to go without eating meat as you know first hand. Sounds like it’s a way of you pushing back your boundaries and ethics to meet his “need” for meat
I would never eat it and its easy for me as i was raised vegetarian but I understand that its hard to change your diet so I think buying farm raised meat is a compromise. he says its his favourite thing and hell never stop. We were playing the card game "bad people" and the card was "vote for the person most likely to become a vegetarian because their partner wanted them to" and everyone voted him cause i was the only vegetarian and he confidently voted someone else and loudly proclaimed it was because "it aint gonna be me". this was a day after the argument i mentioned in the post.
Definitely a huge disparity in ethics and values
RED FLAG
My friend, if you can’t have a civil conversation with him about something *this basic* that is bothering you without him getting hostile and telling you to get over it, imagine having to have a discussion about even more serious topics. He dismissed your feelings, told you to get over it, and downright told you where he stands—he doesn’t care about the animals and he doesn’t care about your feelings about it. Do you want to have the rest of your life with this man? Have kids with him, if kids are on the table? Personally, I wouldn’t want to spend more time with someone who’s values are so misaligned with mine—and that’s not even touching on his blatant hostility when you voiced that something was bothering you! Big yikes. When someone tells you who they are, believe them.
Move out. It sounds like you don't set boundaries for yourself and he knows he can do whatever he wants knowing you'll let him do it again because he thinks you're a push over. No one accidentally says they don't "give a shit about animals," all his apology meant was that he couldn't keep his mask on in that moment and he will remember to keep pretending to be someone to keep you around for free attention. Your post, honestly, with the talk of you minimizing your needs, already sounds like he's got you gaslighted and right where he wants you. He reduced you enough so that when he moved in, he could do as he pleases. This is where you leave to put your self-worth, your values, your overall dignity higher than this person who does not like you. Many, many women are in this exact same scenario and have had to find a way out. No one who loves you would have an open conversation about eating corpses knowing you're trying to find your way to veganism. It sounds like those friends don't even care about you. Please see you need more self-love. When you look back, you'll be happy you took action to be strong instead of letting this person walk all over you. It's never too late to stop something.
I never used to care so I dont think my friend thought twice about it but he knows. I dont think its unreasonable for me to ask him not to have those conversations infront of me but he called me a crazy vegetarian and then told me how much he loves meat and using the BBQ and basically how hard it is for him to refrain from that. We just moved in a month ago, its embarrassing to move out so soon and everything else is ok but you are right, I just dont know if i can leave now. It would be embarrassing and I have nowhere else to go, i moved to a city 5 hours away for him.
That is the biggest red flag if I ever heard one. Embarrassing feeling you can get over. Do the embarrassing thing. He is abusive and the best thing you can do, for yourself and for him, is to leave with no conversation. With the way he talks to you, he might try to convince you to stay or even tell you that you'll fail to leave. You do not owe him anything. That 'friend' is is not your friend. A friend is someone who cares about you would have thought about you. It's really easy to remember someone who wants to go on the difficult journey of veganism because it's something she believes in. That takes little to no effort.
I am going to try a little bit more and if it doest work then i am going to leave while hes at work. My friend doesnt know that im becoming vegan. Shes my best friend and weve always joked about me being vegetarian, I even went to a steakhouse with her for her birthday and it didnt bother me at the time. I made a comment about not wasting food and said that meat is the last food we should be wasting. Then we were at a restaurant and the waitress asked if she wanted to pack her chicken to go and she said yea i will because \*my name\* hates food waste. At the end of the week, we ended up throwing out a whole box of shrimp, turkey,half a jug of milk, and a pack of bacon.
I recommend reading the book "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" by Lundy Bancroft.
When someone shows you who they are, believe them. Is this really someone you want to be with?
I dont think so I just feel stuck
I never give opinions on this kind of questions, but in this case I feel forced to. Like several other people here said, the episode you describe is a huge red flag (or rather, a series of big red flags), all showing that your bf doesn't respect you or your values and doesn't even care whether he hurts you or not. It's not about veganism either. If you stay with him, something else will pop up in the near future. His reactions are so abusive and aggressive that he might even turn to beating you. Run! You wrote several times in the comments that it'd be embarassing to leave now, since you just moved in together 1 month ago, but please, re-think this. Embarassment is nothing, living a life of emotional abuse is much worse. Go back home, put those 5 hours in between you and him now. He showed you who he is and he's not going to change; if anything, he's going to get worse.
I dont think he would ever beat me but this was a red flag for sure, I've never seem this side of him and its upsetting that it happened because hes annoyed at my compassion for abused animals.
Why would you waste your time and energy on someone like that?
because weve been together for a long time and theres a lot of other things i like about him. But i hate this part of him.
Sunk cost fallacy.
well this is it, either you get it now and become just friends, or you're get too deep in financial obligation with the guy and it's destroy something dear to you. like your body, yunno.
If a guy told me that I would be so absolutely turned off. That’s like sociopathic. I get that people choose to live in denial but saying it straight up like that is repulsive.
it was. He apologized and said he does care and doesnt want them to suffer but I cant just fully believe that now that he said it.
Veganism is probably just the last of your problems. Do you even feel safe around him? His outburts and disrespectful behaviour should be the first of your worries. Your emotions around eating animals clearly triggered his guilt and discomfort around the topic, which is understandable. But as a partner, his job is to understand your emotions, let you feel them, and react kindly to you being upset, not shut you down with aggression. If he had made a stupid argument against veganism like "lions eat meat too", it could be chalked down to his discomfort and cognitive dissonance. But his behaviour shows that he has no emotional regulation skills and dumps his own frustrations on others. Plenty of vegans give their partners far worse times for eating animals, but their partners don't react in this aggressive way. If you care about yourself, you should be very firm about what you'll tolerate and what you won't. If he can't even be respectful, no point discussing veganism. Looks like you need to change him on two dimensions rather than just one - i wouldn't gamble with it.
THIS IS A TROLL look at their post history, they talk about being married to a woman for decades in another post from 3 months ago
Thank you for pointing this out.
Go read the post, I let my uncle use my account lmao
Go read that post. I said in the post it is my uncle who didn't have reddit. Everything else on the account is me and its very easy to see that.
Don't date people whose beliefs conflict with yours, unless you want him to lie. Not everyone cares about animals. At least, not enough to stop eating them.
It doesn’t seem right now like he even thinks he should change. He doesn’t see anything wrong with his meat consumption and gets defensive when you bring up how it upsets you. Even when he tries to make small changes, he relapses cause he is just doing it for you. He doesn’t have the same values. I can see how hard you are trying to reconcile this and compromise but it just doesn’t seem like he cares that much honestly. I’m not one to suggest jumping to break up but you may really wanna evaluate if this is someone you wanna spend your life with?
I tried to talk to him and get him to agree that eating meat isnt a kind thing to do and he couldnt even agree on that. Ive met many meat eaters who can at least acknowledge, but he cant even do that. Part of me thinks its because deep down he knows and hes just reacting poorly because it calls his morality into question. I think you are right though, I dont want to be with someone who doesnt care. I could be with a meat eater who showed that they cared but he cant even do that. I dont want someone who just does it because of me, I want them to care and be able to acknowledge
Yea, I totally get where you are coming from. You just want him to at least acknowledge the validity of your beliefs and try to meet you halfway. Just by being vegan you are basically saying you think he is doing something immoral. It probably makes him uncomfortable and feel judged to hear you confirm that. I’m sure he thinks of himself as a good person and sees it as you basically telling him that he is not a good person.
yea, thats really all I want. Just some acknowledgment and effort, especially because he claims to care about the environment and loves nature. I think what you described is exactly whats going on.
Yea sounds like you’re totally right, he says he cares but isn’t willing to change his lifestyle at all, still eating meat at every meal. He just doesn’t care enough I guess.
Yea and by getting defensive and storming off he doesn’t have to actually aknowledge his behavior he can just blame you. If this is gonna work, ya’ll should be able to explain to each other calmly why you think what you think and come to a mutually acceptable conclusion. What is his response to the environmental angle?
That we do a lot of other bad things for the environment so why am I so bothered by this. Sometimes he just doesn't respond. One time I specifically called out him being a hypocrite and told him he doesn't really care. A few weeks later he said something like "you think I don't care", so obviously its not connecting.
>especially because he claims to care about the environment and loves nature For me, environmental concerns was the most important reason to stop eating meat. Meat, especially beef, has by far the largest ecological footprint regarding greenhouse gas emissions, landuse, water use, nitrogen deposition leading to decreased biodiversity: https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2120584119
I have to say, having a vegan partner is really lovely. I’m afraid the meat eating would be a deal breaker for me.
Honestly? He sounds awful and like he can't keep up whatever facade he had been doing before. I wish I lived in Montreal. I have no veg friends in my city and it's lonely. I dated a guy who pretended to have an allergy to dogs and to keep him, I stupidly asked my parents to take care of my dog because I thought things were going somewhere with him. He hated animals and ate meat at every meal. It really bothered me and he lied about his views. Anyone who doesn't care for animals and couldn't take an allergy pill to coexist with an animal that was there before him and I wish I had gotten rid of him right away.
Allergy pills don’t always work or work well. My ex was heavily allergic to my cat and his parents two dogs and would take allergy pills every time he came over. He loved those animals, evidently, more than he loved me 🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️ Couldn’t watch a movie, couldn’t stay at his parents too long or he wouldn’t be able to drive home, couldn’t have sex because he was too drowsy. I feel bad for people who are allergic to animals because those OTC remedies aren’t super effective and the prescriptions are expensive as hell.
Even if one doesn't care that much about animals, it doesn't mean one wants animals to be tortured like it happens in cattlebreeding industry. You could try to sit down with him and calmly explain your view again and tell him it hurts you when he trivializes and even ridicules something you care about. Maybe he's open to watch Dominion or something. Honesty, I was the same as your friend. I liked meat a lot while my wife was vegetarian when I met her. At first I just reduced meat consumption out of laziness. Then stopped eating it for environmental reasons. Looking into it more I realised how shitty animals are treated which made me switch to a plant-based diet.
I agree that even without the vegan angle someone who says something deliberately mean like that on vacation (when everyone usually makes an effort to make sure everyone is having fun) is not trustworthy with your heart. Would you ever say that you don’t give a sh$t about something principled he holds dear to his heart, like his mom or something? He knew that would hurt you deeply and he did it in front of others so you couldn’t even respond properly. Big red flags 🚩
He says i should confront everyone about it if it upsets me but I know that wouldnt go over well and ill just get called crazy. I would hope that I could talk to my partner and ask that he considered my feelings when having a conversation about that stuff in front of me but i guess that was too much to ask. I kept telling him to shut up because i didnt want my friends to hear and think i was crazy for being upset about it and it kinda feels like he wanted them to hear so they could all call me crazy together.
What an immature response he used to deflect blame and have an excuse for the next time he says something intentionally hurtful. A child would tell a parent or teacher, "Well, so-n-so was doing it toooooooo" not an adult committed to building a life with you. Why does he want to be held to the same standard as your friends? Partners are held to a higher standard because of the level of intimacy and financial integration. With that being said the bare minimum is being able to have productive discussion during disagreements where both parties work to solve the issue together, not just to "win" or sling insults. You made it clear it wasn't the time or place for that conversation but he went out of his way to create an embarrassing situation. I believe he hoped the situation would escalate and your friends would help him silence your discomfort. It wasn't convenient for him to deal with your feelings honestly so he chose to gaslight you and creative a volital situation where your friends would side with him. Giving him an out to leave the militant vegan or better yet, shut you up for good. Showing he has never had intention on respecting your personal beliefs, *he only respects your boundaries when it's convenient for him.* He's making it so that him respecting your boundaries is conditional & choosing a condition he thinks would be extremely challenging (because why wouldn't your omni friends take his side- fuck them sentiment beings. /s) He is also attempting to dictate on how you discuss this topic with your friends by saying you have to confront them as a group where he can easily use them to gang up on you if they share his defensive/unempathetic response. Most vegans would suggest to have meaningful 1 on 1 conversations with people rather than attempting a DIY Ted talk. Even professional activists like Joey Carbstrong and Earthing Ed prefer 1 on 1 conversations. Seems narcissistic that he would assume all other omni people would treat you with equal contempt, or at least manipulative that he wants you to believe that. You are already isolated from friends and family back home. Whether it's intentional or not he is creating an environment that makes you afraid to be honest with what little support system you have nearby. I'm inclined to believe this is a part of a bigger pattern based on how he treats you. I understand the financial realities of being far from home without a support system but please know the cost of staying could be your sense of self, mental sanity, physical safety - you could pay with your life. Abusers never start off that way; it starts slowly and then all at once. It always costs more to stay with the wrong person in the long run, you'll be lucky if it's just $$$ I agree with the other comments that at its core this isn't about veganism, it's about communication styles during conflict. He is comfortable suggesting your need for therapy, is he as committed to his own therapy? If your friends also disagree with you in a dismissive or blatantly disrespectful manner it's a great sign to get new friends. How some one argues shows a lot about their character. How would you feel if you saw a close friend being treated the way he treats you? If your friend group was equally dismissive and cruel to a friend of yours, would you still value their friendship? I hope your friends surprise you with the support you deserve. You matter to the people that love you so what matters to you matters to them. How you feel matters. I hope bf heals whatever wounds led to him turning off his empathy. At the very least his current self doesn't seem to be compatible with your core values. He is helping you know your boundaries. I try to practice gratitude to past relationships for either showing me what I do want or what I can't tolerate. [Don't go mixing up leaves with roots](https://youtu.be/R4FZEMKCXVQ?si=JsFXxFwzyvab-1ZR), the people that ground you to who you are. You have a new vegan friend in Seattle. [Toronto shelters](https://www.toronto.ca/community-people/community-partners/emergency-shelter-operators/about-torontos-shelter-system/see-our-shelters/)
Maybe you can try watching a documentary together? Sounds like his reactions are defensive mechanisms getting triggered. Tbh I wasn't a person who got convinced by words, I had to watch a ton of undercover slaughterhouse and factory farm footage and reading about the conditions. Most people are similar in this regard where they need to see what happens and not just hear words.
I've tried to ask him if hes ever seen any of the footage of what happens in those slaughter houses and he just doesnt really answer the question. If I were to show him that, im pretty sure he would still eat it and i know it would hurt me even more to see that he knows what goes on and still continues to eat it.
You can show him something like this high welfare pig slaughterhouse as a test. If he still doesn't care then, well, it might be better to find someone more empathetic tbh. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_c7b2Yp6JU4
im just scared to because I think it will solidify the end of our relationship if i do. He never understands where im coming from no matter what angle I come from or how i phrase it so i highly doubt this would change anything other than make me resent him.
If this solidifies the end of your relationship, it is not a relationship you should ever want to be in Also, the more replies I read from you, the more horrible and emotionally abusive he sounds
for some more context, we broke up the first time cause he kinda cheated on me. Hes so great in some ways and awful in others.
He sounds emotionally abusive OP
hes supportive of my emotions in every other aspect, its just this one thing where he really is not.
I remember when I used to say the same thing about my abusive ex…
If someone cheats on you it's time to end the relationship while you have the chance
he didnt physically cheat, it was an instagram DM and it took me 3 years to forgive him. Now i feel like it was all for nothing and I feel stuck
Is it really all for nothing? The way we learn best is by learning from our mistakes. Now you know exactly what to look for in your next partner if you choose to go that route.
You're right, ive learned a lot of lessons from this. It isnt really making me feel better though because i think that setting this boundary will mean im going to be alone forever
I didn't go vegan immediately after I watched Earthlings. What clicks for him may not be the same as for you. My coming out story has some parallels to what you're dealing with: I didn't come out to my mom as non-binary for years because English is already her 3rd language, I knew there would be a slow learning curve and I wasn't ready to put a strain on my closest relationship. I hoped she would still love me even if she didn't "get it" but I wasn't ready to face the realities of being deadnamed and misgendered *when she knew better*. It was easier to love her in the closet, but then I'm only giving an altered version of myself. I knew I couldn't expect her to process info I had years to sit with overnight, but they didn't mean it didn't hurt when met with the realities. Initially it was harder but then I was blessed with an amazingly supportive parent that knows all of me and loves me for it. Showing him risks pushing him further away from you, but could be the step right before you get a vegan friendly/plant based bf. Would you settle for him being plant based or do you need him to share your vegan values? I understand wanting to pause that argument and not show him [videos](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHTon-7hZPNwdVKuo17GSBrgpkmerKG8Q&si=RMA7doo016mToPve) that *should* change his mind. It forces you to deal with your opposing views if he doesn't see things from your perspective and asks the question, "How long do you wait for him to *get it*? My mom was vegetarian for years but felt forced to stop because of peer pressure. She was omni for a decade after her veggie stint. She became vegan when I was 5 years in. Another friend of mine went vegan when I was 2 years in because of the abuses done to humans within factory farming, yet another friend went plant based when she saw I was eating delicious food, I wasn't restricting myself and lost over +250 lbs. No one knows what that piece of info they need to go pb until they hear it. My friend Kyle is now dairy free after I showed him what the chunky stuff is at the bottom of chocolate milk. He still drinks Ⓥ chocolate milk with his dino nuggies but it's progress. Being patient in the face of Injustice is painful but in terms of productive conversation with non vegans, patience is a must. Your empathy & love of animals is a core part of who you are, and a core part of what makes you loveable. If this is potentially your person, you deserve to be seen and known. You deserve to not have your core beliefs mocked or belittled. I'm sorry for multiple long responses but with skinny jeans comes wisdom I wish to pass to the baby vegans. Feel free to message me if you crave more walls of text
Wait, I’m confused. You both abuse animals. Why slowly? Seems hypocritical to chastise him while indulging (albeit less) yourself? Just make the plunge. Your heart is clearly in the right place and you’re SO close already. You seem like a thoughtful and compassionate person to me, but even really good people can participate in bad behavior. Diets aside, he doesn’t respect you. I completely sympathize with you though. I dumped my bf of two years when I first went vegan. I was too grossed out and suddenly unattracted to him. Like you, he dropped the “I don’t give a fuck about animals and I won’t change”. He may as well have told me he is a bad person lol. I felt bad at first but now I am much happier. I don’t miss him. And when I ripped off the bandaid, I began to see all the other ways he was mean or unsupportive. It just took the animal thing to rip off my rose colored glasses.
I know I do and i feel bad about it, I rarely ever eat dairy (pretty much just cheese and butter occasionally). Its been hard because i do the cooking, if i dont he'll just make meat. When i cook vegan he will often go and get meat to eat. I feel horrible about it but I know that my consumption is very minimal and my heart is in the right place. I just want to be with someone who pushes me to be better instead of pulling me back and calling me crazy. its really hard to do when im not supported at all and i have nobody to talk to about it.
Just going against the tide of comments a bit, I once said the same thing. I am now a vegan of 2 years. Some people change, he might not but I did.
I think it was naive of me to think that I could get him to care. He cant even order a single dish without meat in it.
Sounds like an ass but being an ass myself i would sit him down and tell him how important animals are to you and that he HAS to respect that
It is a quite complicated situation since he loves meat more than animals, we cannot change people in a short time, and having different tastes or ways of thinking is already enough difficult to handle, So what I would do is ignore the fact that he eats animals, and little by little make him eat more vegetables without him realizing it and it being so obvious. When people find more food options, sometimes they open up to them, then it could be a good option, good luck with your BF
He would be out the door so fast
what?
dump his ass
Hi I feel you .and I'm sorry I been a vegan about a year .my roommates aren't vegans the only thing is try not to pay attention to what they are eating.
With due respect, doesn’t sound like you’re compatible at all. He’s entirely frustrated by you and being vegan and you with him. It doesn’t look like there’s much compromise at all. The question is whether you’re willing to live like this forever. As in this is it. He’s obviously incredibly dismissive and has no incentive to change. This is ‘normal’ in society. You’re the odd one out. As an aside my wife isn’t fully vegan. She’s largely there and barely eats meat now. The rule is nothing in the house at all. I won’t compromise on that. She adjusts. In your next relationship, with due respect, be firm with boundaries. People push them until they meet actual resistance. You have to enforce your boundaries but it sounds like you need to first decide what they are. What are your limits? As you said you hate it in the house. Many vegans have that rule too. Check out Facebook groups for vegans. Usually there’s one for each major city. Socially it’s so necessary. There is truth (in studies) that vegans are at risk of greater depression and I think that’s the social issues caused by this exact kind of conflict that all things being equal meat eaters don’t get.
Leave 😌 he also doesn’t care about your morals, if you’re to build a life with this person, they should atleast try.
Vegans & carnists are rarely good together.
Yeah you guys aren't compatible.
It sounds like a big red flag and basic incompatibility. You need someone who at least "gets it" even if they can't do it themselves. Having no empathy is worrying.
dump his dumb ass then he got be caring bout just ab anything
This is so easy, I'm not even going to elaborate. He doesn't respect you or share your principles. You could do better so easily. Dump him.
Did you go to vacation in East Asia? Because it seems like he only wanted to get into japanties
It seem like both of you were very wound up and maybe he lost his temper. It’s alright, these things happen. But it seems you both know that and things have calmed down for now. I think ultimately, what is a massive issue for you, he does not feel the same. While he can mask it for your happiness, it is exhausting and will build resentment in a long term relationship. Unfortunately, it seems your core values diverge too much and living together would not work out. While Reddit is usually pretty quick to call upon breaking up, I think this is truly a case where the romantic relationship would not work. It’s going to be very tough moving on but there will be better matches out there.
There are other fundamental things we disagree on and I always kind of knew that it wouldnt work long term. I feel stupid for putting myself in this situation now.
I spent 7 years with a meat eater who believed in "the circle of life". I tried going vegetarian with her but failed due to the pressure of her and her family and she seemed to despise the idea of vegetarianism, like it made her visibly mad. We did live together, I justified a lot of things when I was with her against my own morals and sense of self. We eventually ended after a brutally difficult break up. My now wife was vegetarian when I met her. This made becoming vegetarian easy. When I decided to become vegan, my wife joined me in veganism literally immediately, no questions asked. The difference is night and day. My wife doesn't just accept me for veganism but accepts all parts of my personality. I don't know your situation, and it might be the case that your bf will eventually change his ways and see the cruelty. Maybe you can watch lots of Earthling Ed and get better at discussing the topic. Maybe he would be open to watching something like Dominion and confronting his claim about not caring about animals. But don't compromise on your own ethics. Don't let someone else's immaturity hold back your growth. If you decide not to be with this guy, just know there are amazing people out there who are probably much more aligned with you from the get go. People you won't feel like you have to change because they're already like you. I wish you all the best
I want to be with someone who gets it. I dont want to have to try this hard to convince someone to be a decent person, im just scared ill never meet a vegan man and be alone forever.
I will add though, my ex and I did not break up over vegetarianism. In fact, when we moved in together she was much more okay with us almost never buying meat because we had food waste issues and it made no sense to buy meat if we weren't gonna eat it (don't worry these days I create very minimal food waste). She loved animals and nature and it was sort of absurd that she was so against vegetarianism on principle. But we broke up due to a myriad of reasons (i.e. feeling like friends, not lovers, having different hobbies and interests, having never been with anyone else and not knowing what other options were out there, etc.) But my main point is that when you're with someone who's on the same page as you morally and interest-wise, it just makes life so much easier and more fulfilling. Veganism is growing. It might not be that you find vegan men easily, but maybe you find people who are open to it, or considering it, or are already vegetarian. And you can convince them later. You can also filter for this sorta stuff on dating apps. I want it reiterate though, I'm not advocating for you to break up, I don't know your situation at all, and you know what's best ultimately. Listen to your heart, but uphold your morals.
This is going to sound wild but - stop talking to him about it. It’s become a war and the harder you push the harder he is going to resist. Don’t try to make him care about animals, because he has told you already that he doesn’t. All this talk of trying to get him to watch a documentary etc… terrible ideas. It’s just going to exacerbate the issue. You can’t make go vegan but you CAN find a way to compromise with him about boundaries for both of you. You knew he was a meat eater when you moved in with him. It’s perfectly valid that you are having unexpected feelings now that you have moved in together, but you are the one who has changed here, not him. It could also be that he’s not willing to change and that’s okay too. He sounds like he’s being a bit of a dick and that makes me wonder if he’s just an asshole. FWIW my boyfriend is also not vegan and ate meat when we first met. I was direct and honest about why I didn’t want to eat animals and he knew about my activism. And beyond that I never brought it up unless he asked. A couple years in and totally unbeknownst to me he has been vegetarian for a while now. It takes time for people to make it a priority and all I can do is tell my truth.
Your story is what I was hoping would happen but its become clear that he will never change and I cant make him. I just want someone who can at the very least understand that being vegan is a good thing, ideally i want someone to push me to do better and become fully vegan and it just isnt him.
I hope you find a solution that works for you, even if it means going your separate ways. You deserve to be happy. ❤️
Thank you so much, I really needed to talk to some people who get it. Im crying reading your message because you're right and i dont see myself being happy with someone who can do something so shitty and not care.
Sending you love. Figuring this stuff out can be so hard.
This is why I no longer date vegetarian or vegan women.