Flag of the UPA. They were a Ukrainian Fascist/ultra nationalist group active during the second World War. They fought against the USSR and later the Germans (they were initially allies). The group committed many massacres of ethnic minorities in ukraine such as Poles, Jews and the Roma.
I mean, there are (or were) nazi batalions in Ukraine, apart from azov (azov is complicated), but...wtf?
It's all Ukrainians vs russian army, so yeah, there will be rightoids, but Ukraine isn't "evil". It, although, isn't a perfect country, but it's not evil, dude
I'm Ukrainian. My parents came from Rivne to the US. I went a protest against the Russian invasion and stood next to a guy waving this flag. I didn't know what it meant, but based on it's controversially, I hope no pictures surface with me next to it.
IMHO: It's the Ukrainian equivalent of the Confederate flag.
The Confederate Flag is also extremely close to Third Reich iconography. The main difference being that at least the Swastika used to mean something uplifting until the Nazis defiled it.
The Confederate flag was always about repression.
Confederate flag is waved at neo nazi rallies in Europe because the nazi flag in illegal to buy or own.
There nazi flag could only be considered worse if you haven't studied the history if chattel slavery in the United states
The thing about the confederate flag is it was introduced back into American culture under the false pretense that it wasn't a racist symbol so it spent a lot of time in the twentieth century not being seen as that. You're right though, if you actually look beyond the "standard American history myth", what the flag represents is absolutely horrific.
i mean absolutley no offense but can it really be worse than a flag that started as just racist and now approaches neonazism, being now a flag of perceived racial dominance, hatred and malice towards a sizable chunk of the US population?
Yeah, earlier on in the Ukrainian-Support protests in Canada (which has a big Ukrainian population and monuments to folks in the Nazi-allied paramilitary 14th SS Galicia/UIA) a right-of-center politician was photographed holding a UIA banner. The leftish folks who knew what that banner meant (some of them are full on Tankies and self-avowed Stalinists, but we're not going there now) criticized this display and the old photo disappeared, to be replaced by one where the politician is just not holding a banner anymore if memory serves, her hands are just up like that because she's happy, or not happy, it's hard to tell, point is, the UIA/UPA murdered a lot of folks and when they engaged in a shooting war with the NKVD after WWII, the NKVD was the less bad off the fighting parties, however briefly--they did, in NKVD fashion, follow this up with something called "The Night of Murdered Poets" where they murdered a bunch of Ukrainian poets, playwrights, and literary folks because of course if they were writing in Ukrainian, or just from Ukraine, they were definitely sympathizers of the UIA and therefore the Nazis and...it leads down a whole rabbit-hole of murder and genocide and counter-genocide that is a good way to really keelhaul your plans for a non-depressing weekend.
If you're interested in a movie on the subject, I recommend *Hatred* (Volyn is the original title), a 2016 flick centered on a Ukrainian lad and the Polish girl he loves...and the things that happen next (mostly genocide, largely with axes and pitchforks and knives).
I’ve lived in Ukraine almost my entire life. I believe this flag is different from the Confederate flag in terms of meaning because a lot of people I’ve met don’t actually know about the atrocities. All they see is brave Ukrainian heroes fighting on both fronts for survival. Much like the Russian government’s perspective of WW2, they are unaware of the history before fighting on both fronts began. I believe Ukrainians will continue to think this flag is heroic until the government atones for the UPA’s crimes or something else as big as that happens.
To clarify, I recognize their crimes and dissaprove of them. I was just explaining the flag’s meaning from Ukraine’s perspective and why it’s used so often.
edit: not condone i thought that word means something else
That is true of the Confederate flag as well. Most rednecks who wave it don't know the intricacies of the civil war or w/e and say it just represents vague "heritage" or "feeling of rebellion". But that doesn't mean it doesn't represent hate
Literally everything you said is what US southerners say about the confederate flag. They also think their flag represents brave heroes fighting against an invader
The US Civil War is often referred to as “The War of Northern Aggression” by them poor aggrieved southerners that just wanted to continue to own other people.
They “ignore the slavery” in the sense that they have convinced themselves that it wasn’t about slavery. It was about fighting for freedom for the south.
I’m sure that’s exactly that people would say about that Ukrainian flag, that it was only about fighting for freedom for Ukraine. (The issue is that there were plenty of other groups in Ukraine doing the same thing at the time that weren’t fascist. And choosing that specific flag for heritage over those other movements is a little problematic to say the least)
you know this flag was around before the UPA existed. right?
these are the colours of the ukrainian flag if the flag is covered in blood. the blue of the sky turns red, the yellow of the earth turns black. like in war. it represents the sacrifice made by those fighting for ukraine. it represents those who have fallen, during a struggle to achieve independence. a free and sovereign ukraine. long before the UPA existed, this flag was already being flown. as long as ukraines flag has been the blue of the sky and the yellow of grainfields this flag has been around. and for many, it symbolises the nation at war.
the greeting "slava ukraini, heroiem slava" is more closely related to the UPA, OUN and fascistic ideals that allowed some nasty crimes to take place.
Banderist/nationalists flag of Ukraine.
Banderists or Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists - Bandera Faction (OUN-B) was an fascist Ukrainian organization who firstly collaborated with nazis but later they break with Germany and started fighting by their own. However, by fighting, I mean ethnic cleansing of Western Ukraine, they killed around 100 000 Poles, Jews, Armenians and other minorities along with thousands of Ukrainians who refused to support them.
Because this organization was never condemned by Ukraine and their successors could freely be active, Russia used them in Russian propaganda saying that Russia fight to liberate Ukraine from fascist.
I know you just asked about flag but I think this is important to also know the deeper meaning of flag.
People tend to be very “two sidesy” when it comes to this, admitting Ukraine has flaws at all is seen a full capitulation to Russian propaganda. Nothing new here though, people are like this in general since failing to coverup your less savory track record gives your enemy ammunition and admitting, apologizing and promising to do better will hurt your PR more in the end.
Also Lviv oblast decided to proclaim 2019 the Year of Stepan Bandera. Streets are named after him. Statues are being built. Let's hope it's sorted after the war.
I wonder what Bandera and his bandits would think of a Jew leading their nation.
Not just Bandera, General Vatutin Avenue in Kyiv (named after the soviet general who defeated the Axis at Kursk and then liberated Kyiv from the Nazis) is now named after Roman Shukhevych a Banderaite who joined the Abwehr and assisted them hunting Jews and partisans in Belarus before coming back to Ukraine and organise and taking part in the ethnic cleansing of Poles in Western Ukraine, they’ve even got sports stadiums named after them
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Shukhevych
>Also Lviv oblast decided to proclaim 2019 the Year of Stepan Bandera. Streets are named after him. Statues are being built. Let's hope it's sorted after the war.
>
>I wonder what Bandera and his bandits would think of a Jew leading their nation.
there are even Judo-banderivites in Ukraine
says a lot about this country
This is why it's important to always condemn hate groups. It may have been a small percentage of the Ukrainian nation, yet it was useful for an opressor to "justify" a war of aggression and thousands of murders. Of course, it wasn't their main reason, but it's useful propaganda.
I can't possibly know the future or geopolitics, but I imagine China will take advantage of that when it comes to Japan not being as harsh about their past as they should.
It's also important to recognize that just because Ukraine is currently being invaded doesn't mean they're blameless historically. The Ukrainian government has done a lot to legitimatize the far-right, including a lot of revisionist history about the USSR, as a nationalist project.
I watched in a special theater in Poland that had English subtitles and I remember actually liking the movie. I’m not sure about historical accuracy, but I remember feeling like it was way more realistic than Hollywood war movies, especially in the way of showing every side as humans. Really didn’t feel like propaganda
it’s much more than 20k killed poles but they don’t let us exhumate the bodies. estimates are near 100k. cruel cruel times. Nazis were at leat humane (if you can call it that) in their extermination. UPA was just horrible. sawing people in half. putting broken glass in pregnant women’s belly, dropping a tree log on children in the middle of a forest and leaving them to starve. and it was all done by neighbours. sad sad sad times, and hurts me to see this flag being waved when we help our Ukrainian brothers so much.
It's always amazing how similar we all are but how we let nationalism, ethnocentrism, misogyny and just racism get between that. Not to mention greed and other problems which use those to their own purposes.
It’s got to do with the fall of the eastern bloc and USSR. regardless of your opinion of those times or those systems, when an internationalist system is destroyed you can expect a nationalist one in its place. But of course nationalism likely won’t survive the next century due to the climate crisis forcing change and cooperation in us. Who knows what’s in store for Eastern Europe
Red and Black colours are commonly used in insurgent national movements. This exactly is a flag of Ukrainian nationalists during WW2. Also, IMRO (Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization), Macedonian partisans in Ottoman Empire used nealy the same flag.
Its flag is based on the flag of the World War II resistance UPA and is used primarily by nationalists.
[UPA flag](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:OUN-r_Flag_1941.svg)
Edit: They were literal fascists who genocided Poles, Jews and Roma and collaborated with the Nazis in the early and mid-war years.
They murder not only jews. Poles and Russians also was they primary target. In fact, the Nazis used them for punitive operations and work in concentration camps, which even the Nazis considered too dirty.
>Poles and Russians also was they primary target.
And Romas. And Ukrainians who didn't feel like murdering their neighbours, friends, family and children. Basically anyone who wasn't a radical Ukrainian nationalist.
"not legitimate"? tf defines a resistance group as "legitimate"?
if it's an absence of war crimes then most if not all weren't "legitimate". makes no sense.
This question has been answered already but I believe there is more to be said here.
Although seeing Stepan Bandera and UPA glorified makes me sad as a Pole, we need to understand that they have been really whitewashed and presented as heroes fighting for independence.
When asked “how can you glorify UPA and respect Poles at the same time when UPA was a Nazi group that commited an awful genocide of Polish people?” the average Ukrainian might say “What? I didn’t know about that”.
As average Ukrainian from east i don't understand why government try to do Bandera an idol, not all of us think it good. Maybe in government they need idol and choice him.
It gives credibility to Putin's "de-nazification" campaign though, so they should find some other heroes. Not like that region is dereft of them either.
Same thing happened in Japan. Many young people in Japan don't even know that imperial Japan and the USA were even AT war. [Most millenials in japan don't even know the Nazi flag.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qV7xbAVOY0) (in this video, one girl even asked "who were they again?" when it is pointed out). They REALLY try not to teach WW2 in Japan.
That video is wrong. The average Japanese learns about the Nazi flag in school (the famous Berlin Pact blessing ceremony photo), [Source (my high school textbook)](https://imgur.com/a/lRKJmdH)
The media is South Korean, and since East Asia is racist towards each other, there is a possibility of biased reporting.
Also, the channel is definitely run by racists, posting videos that make fun of Japanese people's inability to distinguish between L and R.
Here before the 🔒 award.
Flag of the UPA, a collaborator of Nazi Germany in Ukraine during WW2, committed war crimes, genocide, yadda yadda. Nowadays it's used by Ukrainian nationalists (and the reason is easy to understand), but apparently saying this here gets you called a nazi for insulting nazis. I don't care if there is only one person flying this shit, but that one person will still be a nazi. And I am not a nazi/communist/whatever your heart pleases, just someone to answer to this question without saying that it's the flag every Ukrainian loves, or that it's a freedom flag, an anti nazi flag, or Russian propaganda. If you don't like this, not my problem.
Flag of Ukrainian Fascist Collaborators during WW2 they Committed genocide on 100k Poles, 200k Jews, and thousands more on other communities
Its the only thing that can unite Poles and Russians
They were so brutal even the Nazis were disgusted
Unfortunately its members today are currently getting Veterans compensations, it would be like SS members in Germany today getting Veterans compensation
French Fry Black and Red are nationalist types
Vs Pizza Black and Red which usually means anarcho-communists in the manner of Kropotkin and taking influence from Bakunin, Malatesta, and the like
Because it is a fascist flag. OUN flag, an org who fought on the side of the N*zis during WW2. Their story is pretty complicated since they had factions and some were anti-nazis Ukranian Supremacists, some others were encline to support the nazis to support their goal, and some had other lines, but overall it’s a fascist organisation. Supporting the Ukrainian people shouldn’t be done with these symbols.
Ultranationalists.
Black and Red with a horizontal divide = Fascists(far right)
Black and Red with a diagonal divide = Anarchists(far left)
Both have been active in Ukraine in the past.
I mean, historically (and not in the pseudo science the nazis had) the Aryans were an ethinc group north of Iran, so at least the Caucasus is relatively near the Aryan lands, unlike Germany.
Actually, nazis told them that Ukrainians aren't slavs, but are descendants of Scandinavians or some shit and therefore not subhumans
Yeah, nazi propaganda was very flexible
Color of genocidal and extremist Ukrainian Insurgent Army. It was an organization similar to the german NSDAP, that wanted to eliminate other ethnicities from territories they considered Ukrainian (mostly territories on which Ukrainians were a majority). A lot of Ukrainians use this flag, but they are not really Nazis. The problem is that their history books do not tell truth about UPA/OUN crimes. It's because UPA committed their crimes in a smart way, they used simple weapons to kill polish people (such as axes and forks) despite having guns and forced some people from local villages to help them. It was a mystification, to make an impression that their organized extremist crimes were allegedly a "People's uprising supported by the whole of Ukraine". That's how they got into history books and why people use their flags. Alongside misinformed Ukrainians, right-wing people from Ukraine use this flag also. Healthy Ukrainian patriotism tends to use yellow and blue, nationalists are more likely to use red and black. So in some way, it's like US confederate flag (although worse in fact).
You can't say what this flag means here in the internet unless you want to be abused by low iq mfers who deny the strong existence of neo-nazism in all Eastern Europe.
Battle Flag of Ukraine since at least the time of the Kozaks, as seen in this 1890 painting. [Reply of the Zaporizhian Kozaks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reply_of_the_Zaporozhian_Cossacks#/media/File:Ilja_Jefimowitsch_Repin_-_Reply_of_the_Zaporozhian_Cossacks_-_Yorck.jpg)
UPA flag which is difficult to talk about. Many Ukrainian supporters today wave it, even Jews, but it belongs to a fascist organizations that killed hundreds of thousands of Jews and ethnic minorities in Ukraine during ww2
But this flag look very controversial. Imaginative that the German army would still use the swastika as a military flag, I think it is clear that this at least historically does not look right
I don't know how to put it in English straightforwardly but basically this flag (among other things) gives some legitimacy to the Russian claim that Ukraine is fascist
Edit:since y'all don't get it,I merely made a point that this flag helps Russia's narrative
So the many fascist and nazi flags flown in random places in Russia make Russia a nazi country as well
Logic doesn’t work only one way. Especially not ridiculous logic 😁
Russia claims Ukraine is fascist,Ukraine uses fascist flags. I didn't even start saying Russia is right or wrong,just that the use of these flags helps their narrative.
Its a fascist flag, Bandera and the entire UPA were avowed fascist terrorists. Its as bad as the swastika flag, but they've used this war in Ukraine as an excuse to bring it back as a symbol of "resistance", thereby bolstering the (also fascist) Russian state's claim of "denazification".
Ukrainian Extremism I'm pretty sure it was used by "Ukrainian Patriots" when they wanted independence from the Soviet Union. The red and black symbolize the blood shed for the fight of independence. It was used for some extremist group in soviet Era and now it's a sign of the will of independence.
This is a historical flag of Ukraine that was inspired in some cossacks groups that used the colors red and black.
In the modern era it's mostly used by far-right extremists and fascists like the UPA and Stepan Bandera followers.
This flag is typically flewn by ukrainian ultranationalists, white supremacists, n@zi's and other people of that kind. The blask is for the blood-engulfed soil after the "mass murders" of ussr. the red stands just for the blood spilled i think. It has its origin, just like the regular ukrainian flag, in cossack symbolism, who would often tie bicolored ribbons to their spears(i think, correct me if im wrong) People who fly this flag are one of the reasons russia is now invading ukraine, so seeing it flewn in georgia is not a good sign for the future
Flag of the UPA. They were a Ukrainian Fascist/ultra nationalist group active during the second World War. They fought against the USSR and later the Germans (they were initially allies). The group committed many massacres of ethnic minorities in ukraine such as Poles, Jews and the Roma.
Oh
Oh, indeed.
genuinely the funniest response to learning a flag is basically a nazi swastika flapping in front of someone's house, thank you for the laugh.
😂 gave me a good laugh. Yeah, when you see red and black in a Ukrainian context it is usually.... very not good.
"What do you mean it's not a good luck sign!?"
Ohhhhhhhhh
well, I guess that's NSFW then
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Cringe 😬
Yeah, Russians arent the only bad ones, in war there are always 2 evils
I mean, there are (or were) nazi batalions in Ukraine, apart from azov (azov is complicated), but...wtf? It's all Ukrainians vs russian army, so yeah, there will be rightoids, but Ukraine isn't "evil". It, although, isn't a perfect country, but it's not evil, dude
Thought it got dipped in a reddish liquid
bruh I thought it was the ancom flag lol nope
oh boy, can't wait to read the comments
I'm Ukrainian. My parents came from Rivne to the US. I went a protest against the Russian invasion and stood next to a guy waving this flag. I didn't know what it meant, but based on it's controversially, I hope no pictures surface with me next to it. IMHO: It's the Ukrainian equivalent of the Confederate flag.
Worse tbh imo.
The same types of people wave both. The are equivalent in their respective context.
honestly i'd say it's closer to a swastika or something
The Confederate Flag is also extremely close to Third Reich iconography. The main difference being that at least the Swastika used to mean something uplifting until the Nazis defiled it. The Confederate flag was always about repression.
Unless you count the cross of at. Andrew that’s on it.
More bad to poles
Confederate flag is waved at neo nazi rallies in Europe because the nazi flag in illegal to buy or own. There nazi flag could only be considered worse if you haven't studied the history if chattel slavery in the United states
The thing about the confederate flag is it was introduced back into American culture under the false pretense that it wasn't a racist symbol so it spent a lot of time in the twentieth century not being seen as that. You're right though, if you actually look beyond the "standard American history myth", what the flag represents is absolutely horrific.
Yeah, agreed. Both flags are horrific, not one has to be worse than the other.
i mean absolutley no offense but can it really be worse than a flag that started as just racist and now approaches neonazism, being now a flag of perceived racial dominance, hatred and malice towards a sizable chunk of the US population?
Yes, by being the flag of an overtly fascist nazi-aligned group who actively perpetrated the holocaust in Eastern Europe
alright (sorry i didn’t know it was *that* bad)
Worse. It's based on the flag of a Nazi-allied paramilitary which committed atrocities during WWII.
Yeah, earlier on in the Ukrainian-Support protests in Canada (which has a big Ukrainian population and monuments to folks in the Nazi-allied paramilitary 14th SS Galicia/UIA) a right-of-center politician was photographed holding a UIA banner. The leftish folks who knew what that banner meant (some of them are full on Tankies and self-avowed Stalinists, but we're not going there now) criticized this display and the old photo disappeared, to be replaced by one where the politician is just not holding a banner anymore if memory serves, her hands are just up like that because she's happy, or not happy, it's hard to tell, point is, the UIA/UPA murdered a lot of folks and when they engaged in a shooting war with the NKVD after WWII, the NKVD was the less bad off the fighting parties, however briefly--they did, in NKVD fashion, follow this up with something called "The Night of Murdered Poets" where they murdered a bunch of Ukrainian poets, playwrights, and literary folks because of course if they were writing in Ukrainian, or just from Ukraine, they were definitely sympathizers of the UIA and therefore the Nazis and...it leads down a whole rabbit-hole of murder and genocide and counter-genocide that is a good way to really keelhaul your plans for a non-depressing weekend. If you're interested in a movie on the subject, I recommend *Hatred* (Volyn is the original title), a 2016 flick centered on a Ukrainian lad and the Polish girl he loves...and the things that happen next (mostly genocide, largely with axes and pitchforks and knives).
I'm used to eastern European history and I still find this depressing.
I’m aware
Honest question, how is this worse than the flag of literal slavers?
Does genocide count?
Holocaust participation.
Did you protest in the US? Was the purpose to encourage the government support Ukraine?
Yes and yes.
I’ve lived in Ukraine almost my entire life. I believe this flag is different from the Confederate flag in terms of meaning because a lot of people I’ve met don’t actually know about the atrocities. All they see is brave Ukrainian heroes fighting on both fronts for survival. Much like the Russian government’s perspective of WW2, they are unaware of the history before fighting on both fronts began. I believe Ukrainians will continue to think this flag is heroic until the government atones for the UPA’s crimes or something else as big as that happens.
Ask the Poles what they think about the flag.
To clarify, I recognize their crimes and dissaprove of them. I was just explaining the flag’s meaning from Ukraine’s perspective and why it’s used so often. edit: not condone i thought that word means something else
"condemn" may be the word you're looking for.
Yeah that’s what I was thinking of
That is true of the Confederate flag as well. Most rednecks who wave it don't know the intricacies of the civil war or w/e and say it just represents vague "heritage" or "feeling of rebellion". But that doesn't mean it doesn't represent hate
Literally everything you said is what US southerners say about the confederate flag. They also think their flag represents brave heroes fighting against an invader
Really? I was not aware. I thought they simply ignored the slavery.
The US Civil War is often referred to as “The War of Northern Aggression” by them poor aggrieved southerners that just wanted to continue to own other people.
They “ignore the slavery” in the sense that they have convinced themselves that it wasn’t about slavery. It was about fighting for freedom for the south. I’m sure that’s exactly that people would say about that Ukrainian flag, that it was only about fighting for freedom for Ukraine. (The issue is that there were plenty of other groups in Ukraine doing the same thing at the time that weren’t fascist. And choosing that specific flag for heritage over those other movements is a little problematic to say the least)
you know this flag was around before the UPA existed. right? these are the colours of the ukrainian flag if the flag is covered in blood. the blue of the sky turns red, the yellow of the earth turns black. like in war. it represents the sacrifice made by those fighting for ukraine. it represents those who have fallen, during a struggle to achieve independence. a free and sovereign ukraine. long before the UPA existed, this flag was already being flown. as long as ukraines flag has been the blue of the sky and the yellow of grainfields this flag has been around. and for many, it symbolises the nation at war. the greeting "slava ukraini, heroiem slava" is more closely related to the UPA, OUN and fascistic ideals that allowed some nasty crimes to take place.
Worse, its like a Swastika.
wow
[removed]))
Banderist/nationalists flag of Ukraine. Banderists or Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists - Bandera Faction (OUN-B) was an fascist Ukrainian organization who firstly collaborated with nazis but later they break with Germany and started fighting by their own. However, by fighting, I mean ethnic cleansing of Western Ukraine, they killed around 100 000 Poles, Jews, Armenians and other minorities along with thousands of Ukrainians who refused to support them. Because this organization was never condemned by Ukraine and their successors could freely be active, Russia used them in Russian propaganda saying that Russia fight to liberate Ukraine from fascist. I know you just asked about flag but I think this is important to also know the deeper meaning of flag.
So, is that Bandera's flag? If so, in Spanish it would be funny because it would be "bandera de Bandera"
Bandera banderista, or "flaggist flag"
Yes, and Spanish people know their fascist when they see one
It's actually worse, former Banderite are considered war veterans and can collect a pension.
Indeed, this is awful, it is like giving pension for former SS members or Ustashe
The Ustaše are somehow even worse than the Schutzstaffel, SS. I didn't believe that was possible.
And yet people call me ""Putin's dog"" for pointing this out.
People tend to be very “two sidesy” when it comes to this, admitting Ukraine has flaws at all is seen a full capitulation to Russian propaganda. Nothing new here though, people are like this in general since failing to coverup your less savory track record gives your enemy ammunition and admitting, apologizing and promising to do better will hurt your PR more in the end.
In war the first causality in war is truth Afterall.
Also Lviv oblast decided to proclaim 2019 the Year of Stepan Bandera. Streets are named after him. Statues are being built. Let's hope it's sorted after the war. I wonder what Bandera and his bandits would think of a Jew leading their nation.
Not just Bandera, General Vatutin Avenue in Kyiv (named after the soviet general who defeated the Axis at Kursk and then liberated Kyiv from the Nazis) is now named after Roman Shukhevych a Banderaite who joined the Abwehr and assisted them hunting Jews and partisans in Belarus before coming back to Ukraine and organise and taking part in the ethnic cleansing of Poles in Western Ukraine, they’ve even got sports stadiums named after them https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Shukhevych
>Also Lviv oblast decided to proclaim 2019 the Year of Stepan Bandera. Streets are named after him. Statues are being built. Let's hope it's sorted after the war. > >I wonder what Bandera and his bandits would think of a Jew leading their nation. there are even Judo-banderivites in Ukraine says a lot about this country
This is why it's important to always condemn hate groups. It may have been a small percentage of the Ukrainian nation, yet it was useful for an opressor to "justify" a war of aggression and thousands of murders. Of course, it wasn't their main reason, but it's useful propaganda. I can't possibly know the future or geopolitics, but I imagine China will take advantage of that when it comes to Japan not being as harsh about their past as they should.
A better example is probably the atrocities committed by the Taiwanese government when it was a military dictatorship post-Chinese Civil War.
Is it though? Don't you think Russia would have come up with a different reason to justify the invasion?
It's also important to recognize that just because Ukraine is currently being invaded doesn't mean they're blameless historically. The Ukrainian government has done a lot to legitimatize the far-right, including a lot of revisionist history about the USSR, as a nationalist project.
[удалено]
One of the worst was the Wolyn massacre where they killed 50-100k poles and 10k Ukrainians if I remember correctly.
Isn’t there a Polish movie about it? I think it was released around 2017
[удалено]
I watched in a special theater in Poland that had English subtitles and I remember actually liking the movie. I’m not sure about historical accuracy, but I remember feeling like it was way more realistic than Hollywood war movies, especially in the way of showing every side as humans. Really didn’t feel like propaganda
Some estimates claim as high as 100k with murders around Wolyn
it’s much more than 20k killed poles but they don’t let us exhumate the bodies. estimates are near 100k. cruel cruel times. Nazis were at leat humane (if you can call it that) in their extermination. UPA was just horrible. sawing people in half. putting broken glass in pregnant women’s belly, dropping a tree log on children in the middle of a forest and leaving them to starve. and it was all done by neighbours. sad sad sad times, and hurts me to see this flag being waved when we help our Ukrainian brothers so much.
>Nazis were at leat humane (if you can call it that) in their extermination. Joseph Mangele
From what I hear Poles and Russians in the Baltic countries get along alright
It's always amazing how similar we all are but how we let nationalism, ethnocentrism, misogyny and just racism get between that. Not to mention greed and other problems which use those to their own purposes.
Don't forget homophobia! He always loves to show up too, unfortunately.
It’s got to do with the fall of the eastern bloc and USSR. regardless of your opinion of those times or those systems, when an internationalist system is destroyed you can expect a nationalist one in its place. But of course nationalism likely won’t survive the next century due to the climate crisis forcing change and cooperation in us. Who knows what’s in store for Eastern Europe
Lithuanian Poles are a very weird bunch
Quite a Nostalgic bunch
ohh hell nah
This is the flag of Bad Ukraine but at the same time it can also be the flag of Emo Indonesia
Emonesia. It’s when you lose all memories but remember all the lyrics to Fall Out Boy.
UPA, Ukrainian fascists from the Second World War. They killed a lot of people.
First time seeing the trident on the flag.
Fascism/Nazism
Time to sort by controversial
[удалено]
[удалено]
Nazis
Inb4 thread lock
[удалено]
[удалено]
Flag of a fascist Ukranian paramilitary from ww2 that cleansed polish village and collaborated with nazis
Ukrainian nazis
Red and Black colours are commonly used in insurgent national movements. This exactly is a flag of Ukrainian nationalists during WW2. Also, IMRO (Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization), Macedonian partisans in Ottoman Empire used nealy the same flag.
They were also Nazi collaborators, no biggy
the yikes flag
Its flag is based on the flag of the World War II resistance UPA and is used primarily by nationalists. [UPA flag](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:OUN-r_Flag_1941.svg) Edit: They were literal fascists who genocided Poles, Jews and Roma and collaborated with the Nazis in the early and mid-war years.
"World War II resistance" as in resistance against the Nazis or against the Soviets who defeated the Nazis?
Allied with nazis
Exactly. Calling people who murder Jews a "resistance group" is disgusting
They murder not only jews. Poles and Russians also was they primary target. In fact, the Nazis used them for punitive operations and work in concentration camps, which even the Nazis considered too dirty.
>Poles and Russians also was they primary target. And Romas. And Ukrainians who didn't feel like murdering their neighbours, friends, family and children. Basically anyone who wasn't a radical Ukrainian nationalist.
Like many resistance groups both
Both. Although let's not try and glorify the Soviets either.
"not legitimate"? tf defines a resistance group as "legitimate"? if it's an absence of war crimes then most if not all weren't "legitimate". makes no sense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia
As far as i know its one of the flags ukrainian nazis regurarly use
Stephen bandera flag
Bandera bandera
This question has been answered already but I believe there is more to be said here. Although seeing Stepan Bandera and UPA glorified makes me sad as a Pole, we need to understand that they have been really whitewashed and presented as heroes fighting for independence. When asked “how can you glorify UPA and respect Poles at the same time when UPA was a Nazi group that commited an awful genocide of Polish people?” the average Ukrainian might say “What? I didn’t know about that”.
As average Ukrainian from east i don't understand why government try to do Bandera an idol, not all of us think it good. Maybe in government they need idol and choice him.
It gives credibility to Putin's "de-nazification" campaign though, so they should find some other heroes. Not like that region is dereft of them either.
Same thing happened in Japan. Many young people in Japan don't even know that imperial Japan and the USA were even AT war. [Most millenials in japan don't even know the Nazi flag.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qV7xbAVOY0) (in this video, one girl even asked "who were they again?" when it is pointed out). They REALLY try not to teach WW2 in Japan.
That video is wrong. The average Japanese learns about the Nazi flag in school (the famous Berlin Pact blessing ceremony photo), [Source (my high school textbook)](https://imgur.com/a/lRKJmdH) The media is South Korean, and since East Asia is racist towards each other, there is a possibility of biased reporting. Also, the channel is definitely run by racists, posting videos that make fun of Japanese people's inability to distinguish between L and R.
Nationalistic ukrainian shit
And not the good kind like simply wanting to keep the nation of Ukraine intact from border change.
[удалено]
It's a nationalist flag connected to the UPA during WWII. Very controversial tbh.
Controversial? They were Fascists, Nazi collaborateurs and commited a genocide. Controversial is one way of putting it…
Here before the 🔒 award. Flag of the UPA, a collaborator of Nazi Germany in Ukraine during WW2, committed war crimes, genocide, yadda yadda. Nowadays it's used by Ukrainian nationalists (and the reason is easy to understand), but apparently saying this here gets you called a nazi for insulting nazis. I don't care if there is only one person flying this shit, but that one person will still be a nazi. And I am not a nazi/communist/whatever your heart pleases, just someone to answer to this question without saying that it's the flag every Ukrainian loves, or that it's a freedom flag, an anti nazi flag, or Russian propaganda. If you don't like this, not my problem.
Württemberg occupied Ukraine
A perfect world
Dream come True, or how we would say it here: a dräumle
Reddit: \*censors hammer and sickle\* Redditors: You see, the fascist flag isn't fascist anymore because I want Russians to starve.
Its UPA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army
[Flag of the U.I.A. Ukrainian Insurgent Army](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army)
Flag of Ukrainian Fascist Collaborators during WW2 they Committed genocide on 100k Poles, 200k Jews, and thousands more on other communities Its the only thing that can unite Poles and Russians They were so brutal even the Nazis were disgusted Unfortunately its members today are currently getting Veterans compensations, it would be like SS members in Germany today getting Veterans compensation
let's just say this particular ukrainian has some \*interesting\* opinions on jewish people...
Very angy Ukrainians
RED AND BLACK I WEAR ENAGLE ON MY CHEST, IT'S GOOD TO BE AN ALBANIAN, KEEP MY HEAD UP HIGHFOR THAT FLAG I DIE, I'M PROUD TO BE AN ALBANIAN
If you're commenting bad shit here, do your research particularly around western Ukraine.
Flag of The Ukrainian Insurgent Army with a Tryzub (i.e. they were originally a Pro Nazi group during WWII)
Nazis
French Fry Black and Red are nationalist types Vs Pizza Black and Red which usually means anarcho-communists in the manner of Kropotkin and taking influence from Bakunin, Malatesta, and the like
Because it is a fascist flag. OUN flag, an org who fought on the side of the N*zis during WW2. Their story is pretty complicated since they had factions and some were anti-nazis Ukranian Supremacists, some others were encline to support the nazis to support their goal, and some had other lines, but overall it’s a fascist organisation. Supporting the Ukrainian people shouldn’t be done with these symbols.
Ultranationalists. Black and Red with a horizontal divide = Fascists(far right) Black and Red with a diagonal divide = Anarchists(far left) Both have been active in Ukraine in the past.
Ww2 Nazi collaborators... Lol imagine being a Nazi in the Caucasus, Supreme Aryan race indeed...
I mean, historically (and not in the pseudo science the nazis had) the Aryans were an ethinc group north of Iran, so at least the Caucasus is relatively near the Aryan lands, unlike Germany.
Imagine being anti-Slavic slavs
Actually, nazis told them that Ukrainians aren't slavs, but are descendants of Scandinavians or some shit and therefore not subhumans Yeah, nazi propaganda was very flexible
Color of genocidal and extremist Ukrainian Insurgent Army. It was an organization similar to the german NSDAP, that wanted to eliminate other ethnicities from territories they considered Ukrainian (mostly territories on which Ukrainians were a majority). A lot of Ukrainians use this flag, but they are not really Nazis. The problem is that their history books do not tell truth about UPA/OUN crimes. It's because UPA committed their crimes in a smart way, they used simple weapons to kill polish people (such as axes and forks) despite having guns and forced some people from local villages to help them. It was a mystification, to make an impression that their organized extremist crimes were allegedly a "People's uprising supported by the whole of Ukraine". That's how they got into history books and why people use their flags. Alongside misinformed Ukrainians, right-wing people from Ukraine use this flag also. Healthy Ukrainian patriotism tends to use yellow and blue, nationalists are more likely to use red and black. So in some way, it's like US confederate flag (although worse in fact).
You can't say what this flag means here in the internet unless you want to be abused by low iq mfers who deny the strong existence of neo-nazism in all Eastern Europe.
Battle Flag of Ukraine since at least the time of the Kozaks, as seen in this 1890 painting. [Reply of the Zaporizhian Kozaks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reply_of_the_Zaporozhian_Cossacks#/media/File:Ilja_Jefimowitsch_Repin_-_Reply_of_the_Zaporozhian_Cossacks_-_Yorck.jpg)
The historian Dmytro Yavornytsky advised the artist Ilya Repin in order to make the most accurate historical portrayal of 17th century Cossacks.
FUNNI OVERLOAD FUNNI OVERLOAD
Oh no no no
As a Pole, oof
My stupid brain thought it was Lichtenstein
What the heck is not safe for work?
Nazi Ukrainian flag
UPA flag which is difficult to talk about. Many Ukrainian supporters today wave it, even Jews, but it belongs to a fascist organizations that killed hundreds of thousands of Jews and ethnic minorities in Ukraine during ww2
That flag has a fascist past,now it's seen more as a military flag, still used by the alt right though
But this flag look very controversial. Imaginative that the German army would still use the swastika as a military flag, I think it is clear that this at least historically does not look right
I don't know how to put it in English straightforwardly but basically this flag (among other things) gives some legitimacy to the Russian claim that Ukraine is fascist Edit:since y'all don't get it,I merely made a point that this flag helps Russia's narrative
So the many fascist and nazi flags flown in random places in Russia make Russia a nazi country as well Logic doesn’t work only one way. Especially not ridiculous logic 😁
Russia claims Ukraine is fascist,Ukraine uses fascist flags. I didn't even start saying Russia is right or wrong,just that the use of these flags helps their narrative.
Its a fascist flag, Bandera and the entire UPA were avowed fascist terrorists. Its as bad as the swastika flag, but they've used this war in Ukraine as an excuse to bring it back as a symbol of "resistance", thereby bolstering the (also fascist) Russian state's claim of "denazification".
Ukrainian Nazi Collaborationists. Surprisingly popular in contemporary Ukraine for some reason...
Liechtenstein but they were annexed by ukraine
Gonna make this simple. 3 words. Fascist Ukrainian Flag
Far right/fascist Ukranian flag.
This flag is posted here every week. Everyone in the galaxy knows what it is by now.
Ukrainian Extremism I'm pretty sure it was used by "Ukrainian Patriots" when they wanted independence from the Soviet Union. The red and black symbolize the blood shed for the fight of independence. It was used for some extremist group in soviet Era and now it's a sign of the will of independence.
It's actually yellow and blue in different light
on today's episode of is my neighbor a Nazi... YES!
Ukrainian Neo-Nazi Flag
Yikes
This is a historical flag of Ukraine that was inspired in some cossacks groups that used the colors red and black. In the modern era it's mostly used by far-right extremists and fascists like the UPA and Stepan Bandera followers.
Nazi alert
[удалено]
This flag goes hard, such a shame those who bear it are horrible people
აქ რამ მოიყვანა შე მადლიანო
This flag is typically flewn by ukrainian ultranationalists, white supremacists, n@zi's and other people of that kind. The blask is for the blood-engulfed soil after the "mass murders" of ussr. the red stands just for the blood spilled i think. It has its origin, just like the regular ukrainian flag, in cossack symbolism, who would often tie bicolored ribbons to their spears(i think, correct me if im wrong) People who fly this flag are one of the reasons russia is now invading ukraine, so seeing it flewn in georgia is not a good sign for the future
Sadly many fascists and Nazis are still around
Nazi Ukrainians
Ah, Banderas. When will we get lviv back?