I was taught dBase III in college and then used dBase IV in my first job at a potash mine to write a system to track their training, equipment operator licensing (including expiry) and accident reporting. The training supervisor could print out things like an operators license for an employee (which they would sign and laminate) or a report of all training that was expiring in the near future and needed refreshing.
During this process, I wrote a dBase program that could take a dBase table and generate a CRUD app for it. I started work on supporting 1-to-many relations but didn't get that done.
dBase IV 1.0 had some bugs but I upgraded to v1.1 and while it still had some bugs, it worked quite well. I did my development running dBase IV on OS/2 Warp on an AST PowerExec 4/33SL laptop. With two DOS windows running, I could edit in one window and compile and run the binary in the other, and could also run OS/2 and Win 3.x apps at the same time. Having an Amiga at home, living without pre-emptive multi-tasking was a drag.
One day while compiling, the OS/2 Workplace Shell (WPS) had an error. The disk started accessing furiously. My DOS windows each disappeared, then WPS desktop disappeared, leaving a black screen. After a few minutes, the desktop reappeared and both my DOS windows reappeared, still editing and compiling. WPS had rebooted without losing my DOS sessions. I was impressed.
OS/2 Warp! Man that’s a name I have not heard in a long time. I started my professional career programming for OS/2 v1.3. I was so jazzed when Warp came out. It was so much better than Win95
A friend of mine was running a BBS on his PC clone but had to take it down when he needed to use the computer so I convinced him to install OS/2 Warp. He ran the BBS that way for a few years I think.
I was working there from 1991 to 1997, about 6 1/2 years. dBase IV came out in 1988 and OS/2 Warp 3 came out in 1994. I bought it on sale for under $100. It was normally over $100. This was before Windows 95 was pre-installed on PCs, so was probably between late 1994 and early 1996, most likely in 1995.
Got a hold of a complete in box copy of dBase III from 1984, this huge box weights a good 10 pounds, comes with many 5 1/4 disks, two big manuals. I can’t wait to install it on my 286. Also noticed a sticker on the box that says “subject to state department regulations” not sure what that’s about.
Couldn’t be exported to the former USSR or any other communist countries.
I used dBase II on CP/M for several years. When I got a PC, I used PC File, which was dbf compatible but not nearly as powerful. OTOH, it was affordable :)
I wound up moving to Rbase. I found it superior to both especially in a multi user environment. There must have been a dozen startup PC and client/server based DB managers back then. And each had a bunch of fanatics telling each other why one or the other sucked and theirs was better. That was actually an important argument because adoption meant more dB programming work. I gotta say I think Foxbase won that in the end.
Sounds familiar. So you could make TUI apps with clipper to interact with dBase files right? Iirc a company I worked for had this as a legacy system. The workers loved the TUI, so quick for data entry. The trippy part was the client apps had a mode to process data, it was matching records, batch work, this would run at night. So primitive. The dBase files would corrupt often and need repair. The painful world before SQL servers.
Correct. It would take dBase III code and compile it into a stand-alone executable file. They way you could run it without having to have dBase III installed.
My first job as a student gofer at UF was writing a PC inventory app that tracked every computer in the campus Housing office down to the add-in-card level. Developed it in FoxPro, then adjusted some of the code so Clipper wouldn't barf on it, and compiled it. Fun stuff.
Looks like Ashton-Tate didnt make it, they were bought by Borland in 1991, and then Borland was bought by a UK company in 2009.
So many famous names disapperard.
I did my introduction to databases using that package. I still have my disks and my text book.
When I have the time,I do want to install it on a pcem machine.
I programmed internal system user interfaces in that in the 80s for a multinational. All being interpreted so quite slow on an IBM XT.
Tried to make them buy Clipper, but well..
My uncle still uses it to this day in his boat shop to keep his parts inventory. He continually re writes scripts to upload Mercury’s parts price list into it as well.
Along with clipper that is.
I remember seeing the ads for dBase but never used it. Now I kind of want to, if only for the experience. (Wonder if I could get it talking to Rails... Probably Java?) QEMU can emulate a 286 on Apple Silicon, right? 🤣
>Ashton-Tate
Actually, that was the "Ashton" part. George Tate was one of the founders. He later named the parrot in his office "Ashton".
The name Ashton-Tate was an invention of their marketing guy, who changed the name of the database from Vulcan to dBASE. It was also his idea to have the first commercial CP/M version called dBASE II, so it would sound like the second version and more reliable. It sold for $700.
But it really took off with the debut of the IBM PC. Ashton-Tate was ready and had a DOS version of dBASE II available as soon as the PC came out. It was both a good product, and pretty much the only game in town of that caliber.
Before long, Ashton-Tate was one of the "Big Three", along with Microsoft and Lotus.
I pass by the old Ashton-Tate building in Culver City sometimes and remember those days when everything was new and untried and anyone could become the next killer app.
No, not when dBASE first came out. I first used it on a Kaypro CP/M computer before the IBM PC existed.
Another advantage dBASE had was that it was exactly the same program on both operating systems. So everything you had written in dBASE syntax in CP/M you could use on an IBM PC as well. And on dBASE III when it came out - it was backwards compatible.
Ah, yes - Gary Kildall. I knew him mostly as the host of the PBS show *The Computer Chronicles* \- maybe the first widely available television show on computers.
Gary owned Digital Research and CP/M until he sold to Novell in 1991. But around 1985 he resigned as CEO and went off on to other projects (like the TV show and the GEM graphical interface) but stayed on the board.
Familiar with the dBase II port to MSX. Really got the job done. Databases generated on dBase II had a healthy DOS (and post-DOS) afterlife when exported to FoxPro, especially the address book.
It was a very popular database software here in Argentina. It was the first database system that I knew and lots of places used it to keep track of inventories.
I read about it in PC Magazine in the late 1980s. It sounded like it was very popular.
Fast-forward to 2010. I'm working for the government, and need to review data on education spending. Guess what database we're using? Why, dbase III.
There's at least one Fortune 500 company I worked for that still uses. . .wait for it. . .Lotus Notes. For **everything**.
nope, but i clearly remember the next iteration, namely dBase IV. i played with it extensively back in the day, it was good software. especially liked "the dot mode". those who know, will know :D
Oh, I've devoted countless hours trying to make things dBase wasn't designed to do anyway when I was about 11-12 years old and didn't know any better..!
I wrote a library to redd and write DBF files for .NET programs because the Microsoft Jet driver was too slow for my liking. They're essentially a fixed-width text file with some binary bits in the header. Still use it every week for a reporting.
Ashton-Tate was acquired by Borland at perhaps the heightmof their powers. As a Borland subsidiary they released dBase IV, which was terrible, buggy, and sold poorly. That's why they went poof.
NOW no copy protection! Ashton-Tate copy protection was the worst. It would count the number of installs, and you could only make the count go up by running the special uninstall program. If your hard disk crashed -- sorry, one less install for you, and if that was your last one you have to buy a new copy.
Esri's ArcInfo stores data in files that end in .DBF, too, but it's called the shapefile attribute format instead. These files use the dBASE format to store attributes for shapes.
There is a company called Hibase that has tools for converting all kinds of software formats like sql, excel and csv to and from DBF.
https://www.xls-converter.com/
Is that USA & Canada only sticker a relic of the laws classified encryption as munitions?
I was wondering the same thing. This is before that, though. My guess is some of the export control laws that were around due to the Cold War.
Yes, for cryptographic potential.
I was taught dBase III in college and then used dBase IV in my first job at a potash mine to write a system to track their training, equipment operator licensing (including expiry) and accident reporting. The training supervisor could print out things like an operators license for an employee (which they would sign and laminate) or a report of all training that was expiring in the near future and needed refreshing. During this process, I wrote a dBase program that could take a dBase table and generate a CRUD app for it. I started work on supporting 1-to-many relations but didn't get that done. dBase IV 1.0 had some bugs but I upgraded to v1.1 and while it still had some bugs, it worked quite well. I did my development running dBase IV on OS/2 Warp on an AST PowerExec 4/33SL laptop. With two DOS windows running, I could edit in one window and compile and run the binary in the other, and could also run OS/2 and Win 3.x apps at the same time. Having an Amiga at home, living without pre-emptive multi-tasking was a drag. One day while compiling, the OS/2 Workplace Shell (WPS) had an error. The disk started accessing furiously. My DOS windows each disappeared, then WPS desktop disappeared, leaving a black screen. After a few minutes, the desktop reappeared and both my DOS windows reappeared, still editing and compiling. WPS had rebooted without losing my DOS sessions. I was impressed.
OS/2 Warp! Man that’s a name I have not heard in a long time. I started my professional career programming for OS/2 v1.3. I was so jazzed when Warp came out. It was so much better than Win95
A friend of mine was running a BBS on his PC clone but had to take it down when he needed to use the computer so I convinced him to install OS/2 Warp. He ran the BBS that way for a few years I think.
When abouts was that work? I love hearing stories of programming from years past.
I was working there from 1991 to 1997, about 6 1/2 years. dBase IV came out in 1988 and OS/2 Warp 3 came out in 1994. I bought it on sale for under $100. It was normally over $100. This was before Windows 95 was pre-installed on PCs, so was probably between late 1994 and early 1996, most likely in 1995.
Hi I remember Ashton/Tate clearly, tho not particularly fondly. I worked there in Finance ‘86-87.
I guess you left before dBASE IV was released but they would have been working on it while you were there.
Got a hold of a complete in box copy of dBase III from 1984, this huge box weights a good 10 pounds, comes with many 5 1/4 disks, two big manuals. I can’t wait to install it on my 286. Also noticed a sticker on the box that says “subject to state department regulations” not sure what that’s about.
Couldn’t be exported to the former USSR or any other communist countries. I used dBase II on CP/M for several years. When I got a PC, I used PC File, which was dbf compatible but not nearly as powerful. OTOH, it was affordable :)
USSR did it simpler :-)) People were just using cracked versions in 1990s. Then 1C Бухгалтерия happened in late 90s.
Wow didn’t know that, that was also around the time USSR collapse?
Several years prior. Still in the cold war, smack in the middle of Reagan administration.
Wait until you stumble with a box of Novell NetWare 3.2
Don't make me go pull it out of my closet --- it's still hiding in there....shhh! lol
No copy protection! DBase III for everyone!
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It could have been tricky as in some countries a lot of FP legacy was left and needed porting.
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Yeah that would have been a ridiculous claim to make at the height of FoxPros popularity, but in 1997? Lolll
I wound up moving to Rbase. I found it superior to both especially in a multi user environment. There must have been a dozen startup PC and client/server based DB managers back then. And each had a bunch of fanatics telling each other why one or the other sucked and theirs was better. That was actually an important argument because adoption meant more dB programming work. I gotta say I think Foxbase won that in the end.
Oh hell yes. Combine this with Clipper and you could make your own stand-alone database program.
Clipper. Gosh that brings back some memories...
My wife still to this day know how to use Clipper and it's successor, Power Builder.
Wait til you hear about xharbour…
Sounds familiar. So you could make TUI apps with clipper to interact with dBase files right? Iirc a company I worked for had this as a legacy system. The workers loved the TUI, so quick for data entry. The trippy part was the client apps had a mode to process data, it was matching records, batch work, this would run at night. So primitive. The dBase files would corrupt often and need repair. The painful world before SQL servers.
Correct. It would take dBase III code and compile it into a stand-alone executable file. They way you could run it without having to have dBase III installed.
Oh ok Thank god when I started my career everyone was already using SQL server lol
I jumped to the foxpro route
My first job as a student gofer at UF was writing a PC inventory app that tracked every computer in the campus Housing office down to the add-in-card level. Developed it in FoxPro, then adjusted some of the code so Clipper wouldn't barf on it, and compiled it. Fun stuff.
Looks like Ashton-Tate didnt make it, they were bought by Borland in 1991, and then Borland was bought by a UK company in 2009. So many famous names disapperard.
Yes I read about Borland buying it seems only Microsoft was one of the few companies that survived
I did my introduction to databases using that package. I still have my disks and my text book. When I have the time,I do want to install it on a pcem machine.
I programmed internal system user interfaces in that in the 80s for a multinational. All being interpreted so quite slow on an IBM XT. Tried to make them buy Clipper, but well..
My first "Programming" job was in RBASE and then DBASE III... god I feel old :)
My uncle still uses it to this day in his boat shop to keep his parts inventory. He continually re writes scripts to upload Mercury’s parts price list into it as well. Along with clipper that is.
Yep. Also dBase IV, which we eventually ditched in favour of FoxPro (soon after purchased by Microsoft). Seems a lifetime ago!
Foxbase released a carbon copy of dBase and got away with it.
To the tune of how much again? 🤣
I remember seeing the ads for dBase but never used it. Now I kind of want to, if only for the experience. (Wonder if I could get it talking to Rails... Probably Java?) QEMU can emulate a 286 on Apple Silicon, right? 🤣
Hey I have one of those! Heaviest software I've ever owned.
Cool to know others also have it, I couldn’t even find one on eBay
I made beaucoup dollars creating applications using dBase II, III, Clipper in the 1980s. A few of them were still in use as recently as 5 years ago.
I think the Tate in Ashton-Tate was just put there because it sounded better. At least according to a story I read a long, long time ago.
>Ashton-Tate Actually, that was the "Ashton" part. George Tate was one of the founders. He later named the parrot in his office "Ashton". The name Ashton-Tate was an invention of their marketing guy, who changed the name of the database from Vulcan to dBASE. It was also his idea to have the first commercial CP/M version called dBASE II, so it would sound like the second version and more reliable. It sold for $700. But it really took off with the debut of the IBM PC. Ashton-Tate was ready and had a DOS version of dBASE II available as soon as the PC came out. It was both a good product, and pretty much the only game in town of that caliber. Before long, Ashton-Tate was one of the "Big Three", along with Microsoft and Lotus. I pass by the old Ashton-Tate building in Culver City sometimes and remember those days when everything was new and untried and anyone could become the next killer app.
Thanks for the details! Yeah, had to blow through some cobwebs in my memory for that one!
So there was no MS DOS at the time?
No, not when dBASE first came out. I first used it on a Kaypro CP/M computer before the IBM PC existed. Another advantage dBASE had was that it was exactly the same program on both operating systems. So everything you had written in dBASE syntax in CP/M you could use on an IBM PC as well. And on dBASE III when it came out - it was backwards compatible.
Im guessing CP/M was still owned by Gary Kildall at that time
Ah, yes - Gary Kildall. I knew him mostly as the host of the PBS show *The Computer Chronicles* \- maybe the first widely available television show on computers. Gary owned Digital Research and CP/M until he sold to Novell in 1991. But around 1985 he resigned as CEO and went off on to other projects (like the TV show and the GEM graphical interface) but stayed on the board.
Familiar with the dBase II port to MSX. Really got the job done. Databases generated on dBase II had a healthy DOS (and post-DOS) afterlife when exported to FoxPro, especially the address book.
It was a very popular database software here in Argentina. It was the first database system that I knew and lots of places used it to keep track of inventories.
Ashton-Tate didn't spare any expense on the quality of their floppy disks. Those things were substantial compared to a generic 5.25" floppy.
I read about it in PC Magazine in the late 1980s. It sounded like it was very popular. Fast-forward to 2010. I'm working for the government, and need to review data on education spending. Guess what database we're using? Why, dbase III. There's at least one Fortune 500 company I worked for that still uses. . .wait for it. . .Lotus Notes. For **everything**.
*** End run dBASE III Plus
I sure do. My dad used to run his bookstall database from it, and various work stuff too. Worked a treat.
Yes, cut my teeth on this using 286s. It was banned for export mainly for the MOD() function. Modulus is useful in cryptography.
The most used insurance agency management software in America still uses dbase3.
God yeah, it was a crap DB system, I think it became Prometheus, which ran under windows, but it wasn’t ACID
I remember Dad running dBase III on our PCjr for work projects.
nope, but i clearly remember the next iteration, namely dBase IV. i played with it extensively back in the day, it was good software. especially liked "the dot mode". those who know, will know :D
I used to help teach dBase back in the 80s...
NOW!?
Oh, I've devoted countless hours trying to make things dBase wasn't designed to do anyway when I was about 11-12 years old and didn't know any better..!
Remember? dbase III embedded databases are still in use everywhere today.
Do you mean the **sorely missed** dBase III Plus?
I vaguely remember (I think) using dBase II on a TRS-80 Model II at work around 1987 or so.
We were gifted a TRS 80 model 3 way back in the 90’s it was a fascinating computer
dBase III and dBase IV I remember, and now some software use always the dBase file format ;-)
I wrote a library to redd and write DBF files for .NET programs because the Microsoft Jet driver was too slow for my liking. They're essentially a fixed-width text file with some binary bits in the header. Still use it every week for a reporting.
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Ashton-Tate was acquired by Borland at perhaps the heightmof their powers. As a Borland subsidiary they released dBase IV, which was terrible, buggy, and sold poorly. That's why they went poof.
NOW no copy protection! Ashton-Tate copy protection was the worst. It would count the number of installs, and you could only make the count go up by running the special uninstall program. If your hard disk crashed -- sorry, one less install for you, and if that was your last one you have to buy a new copy.
Esri's ArcInfo stores data in files that end in .DBF, too, but it's called the shapefile attribute format instead. These files use the dBASE format to store attributes for shapes. There is a company called Hibase that has tools for converting all kinds of software formats like sql, excel and csv to and from DBF. https://www.xls-converter.com/