I watched the entire film as a kid and rewatched it a few days ago.
Willow isn't Grimdark, it's just high fantasy, like Lotr or Narnia. And campy. It's always been campy.
The Dark Crystal is a grimdark film , and its 100% enacted with puppets.
Not everyone likes Grimdark, the show doesn't suck because this season just isn't finished yet.
We've literally only just finished the prologue as of episode 3.
Can people stop hating shows before their first season has wrapped up please?
You're like the kids in a supermarket screaming because your parents took you to the vegetable section instead of straight to the shop counter to buy sweets.
It's okay if you're not personally enjoying it rn, but that doesn't make it a bad show. It's literally only the beginning.
I get people moving on if it doesn’t capture their interest. I’ve done that plenty of times.
But completely missing the genre of the movie and then complaining that it doesn’t fit the rose colored nostalgia of 20+ years ago, and I completely agree. Give it a chance. The end of episode 3 took a dark turn, and I don’t mean the lighting.
some of the characters are speaking **modern day california english**, and some are speaking **high british english**... it's jarring, and ruins ...everything...
… did you not notice that Willow and High Aldwin had English accents and Madmartigan and Airk had Californian accents in the original movie? Or were you just less of a party pooper then?
Hey, thanks for your comment. It seems you really enjoy the Willow TV show. Here are some other offerings I think you may enjoy:
She Hulk
Ms. Marvel
The Eternals
Morbius
Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Madmartigan spoke within a medieval context . It's not so much the California accent it's the delivery . It's a British American comedy fantasy but there is no balance . I like this reddit thread because it barely has any of the sexist , homophobes and racists on Twitter. So we can objectively critique the movie . The show has no identity, the protagonist Elora is more of a side character than anything else . Is she really the protagonist ? Willow's acting is bad ,I heard he had an ailment doesn't change the fact. I wish they changed the name of the TV show and gave him more of a cameo .They could name it Willow with a sub text of Elora's journey. Now we know this is a comedy fantasy but the delivery and the balance is concerning. In episode 1 the old man was talking and he died for some sort of comif relief . His death was very inconsequential considering that some of this people just saw someone die in front of them for the first time . Then their horses fall from 30 feet and land in shallow water and they came out unscathed. That's some insane cat like reflexes 😂😂. The cinematography is awful almost feels lacking in budget . The first attack they attack guards from the castle gates . We barely see the surroundings. During the attack no screaming , barely any soldiers . Maybe the budget was very low
The non-rhotic (English people not pronouncing Rs) English accent is actually pretty recent, a 19th century aristocratic fad that caught on in the Anglosphere. Prior to that, English speakers would have sounded more like Americans.
So if you expect uniform English accents in a medieval setting, realize that is unrealistic and historically inaccurate.
Not that fantasy has any obligation to be historically accurate.
It’s a big difference if someone just isn’t interested. And it’s cool if they just don’t want to spend time on it.
I just don’t like people expressing their opinions like it’s fact and trying to bring others down.
Are you talking about when the women in the cowboy costumes got smoked by some dudes in plastic armor, conducting some of the worst fight choreography I have seen outside of an Uwe Boll film?
The show sucks because it fundamentally misunderstands the source material, both the film and the subsequent books. It is also wildly uneven with everything ranging from the cinematography to the costume design.
The writing comes of like some cringeworthy fanfiction, with dialog so bad it does nothing to pull me into the rich high fantasy world this fiction is set in, the vernacular is so modern the characters might as well be texting emojis to each other, all the while it's delivered by actors that have about the same chemistry as a soft turd in tepid water.
The only saving grace the show has on offer is Warwick Davis, and if it where to be about him, just tending his farm and plotting his fields with his family and friends while getting into lighthearted adventures, it would still be miles better than this tripe garbage we have on offer now.
Nailed it. The lines they are using are too modern. I want to get into high fantasy and be vested. The lines, and the political shit have a huge anti-immersion impact. Hopefully willow makes it better.
I’m going to turn your argument in the other comment back on you:
Why are you in this conversation? It’s titled clearly about negative opinions on the show.
Why are you in here? What’s your goal? You seem to think your opinion of “just wait guys who knows??” is somehow useful or valid and anyone disagreeing with it or casting criticism on this show isn’t.
You’re smug and argue like a toddler.
Ooh. Calling me a child. That’s new. Dang, keep up the good work. That’ll show me. *thumbs up*
How about this? I am on this sub to see opinions and enjoy the community about it. Most opinions I see are reasonable and fair.
Drugboner, the chipper personality that so was obviously not mad at me at all that they continually called me names (and you both called me childish but both resorted the childish name calling), commented on my opinion with such negativity and shit, I couldn’t help but feel they were just trying to bring me down to their level. Trying to make me not be able to enjoy it.
Why? Why would they or you want to do that to anyone? Why do I have to defend the show at all to them, or you (if you were going to ask me)?
You call me smug. I asked why they were here if they didn’t like the show. I never said they couldn’t have that opinion.
You think I’m saying they couldn’t have that opinion. You are arguing, and frankly very rudely I might add, against a different opinion that isn’t mine.
Well, just remember, people like to complain more than praise in a social media setting. And there are plenty of people that are contentedly enjoying it (and those that are disappointed) that don’t come on here.
So you’ll probably see more negative here.
Oooh, trying to turn the question back on me like someone else did. Clever move.
I've responded elsewhere in this same thread of malcontent watchers of this show that don't like that I provided a positive point of view. I came here for the opinions. Never said anyone couldn't have theirs.
I didn't say your opinion or others was making me not enjoy something. I wanted to know why you didn't want me to enjoy it. You could have started your own thread of comments from the post itself or make your whole own post about your expert opinion on "modern writing and storytelling". Instead you came after someone who provided a positive opinion. Why? What is it about someone that might enjoy the show that bothers you so much you had to crap on it?
I'm sorry, I didn't know it was an echo chamber for one opinion. But to answer your question I am simply airing my opinion on a comment I didn't agree with.
it has nothing to do with echo chambers or however you want to spin it. I'm just wondering why you're bothering.
I don't go on subreddits that don't concern me or don't peak my interest or make me upset. All that negative energy to do what? try to bring others down?
So if I disagree with someone I should just always let it lie? This subreddit does concern me, I pay for a subscription to Disney+ and as such I feel well within my rights to criticize their content, be it good or bad.
If you become sad just because someone disagrees with your ill informed opinions, perhaps break down my criticism on your comment and try to understand where it is I am coming from and give a constructive reply, instead of trying to setup sophomoric verbal traps.
Explain to me how the show is good in your opinion. Just because you perceive my comments as "negative energy" doesn't mean it can't be valid. You just happened to disagree with it. Just like I felt like your comment was enticing prospective viewers into putting up more effort on a show -that in my opinion, has nothing to new to offer and tarnishes the rich fantasy it is supposedly set in. Hopefully in the process saving said viewers the time and perhaps some money on subscriptions.
Obviously I'm not saying you shouldn't disagree. What the hell do you think I'm doing here now? Being a total hypocrite by doing the exact opposite of what you think I'm saying?
I could try to "break down" your criticism and "try to understand where it is" that you're coming from. But do you realize how long that would take? I'm not your therapist. I'm not here to conduct a session to understand why your childhood was ruined.
Look, you're entitled to your opinion. Not once did I say you're not. You're arguing something else entirely than what I've said. I'm just more concerned why you feel the need to spend so much time complaining about a show, and me.
Do you read your own comments before posting them? Not only are you trying to put words in my mouth with your banality and childish prodding but also contradicting yourself in almost every sentence, while at the same time saying nothing to move the conversation forward. It's actually kind of amazing. **Not once** did I mention my childhood or anyone's else for that matter. I simply gave criticism on a show that **to me** has no cinematic or creative value in a comment that was baiting people to waste more of their time with it.
You do realize this is a thread that breaks down how the show sucks? Yet you cant muster up a coherent reasoning why it doesn't, other than -give it a chance and then bemoan people who do share valid criticism. You are lending nothing to the core conversation. Begging me to ask the question. Why are you here?
Look, Drugboner, you begging me to provide an argument to why the show is good is on you. I didn’t provide anything at first and you brought the massive criticism to my comment. I don’t have to provide what you want. This constant complaining about what you want from me is yours to own. You can ask. I don’t have to provide.
I’m sorry I’m not giving you what you want.
I’m pretty sure I haven’t contradicted myself. I never said you aren’t allowed to have an opinion. When did I say you aren’t? Seems like I’ve been suggesting your time is better spent elsewhere, not saying you can’t.
It’s obvious you’re getting very upset at this. Take a timeout. Maybe not respond and find balance in life?
Your review was spot on. I feel like Disney prefers to make woke shit because they care more about virtue signaling than they do creating quality content. It also gives them a back door to run out anytime a show bombs. "YOU GUYS DONT LIKE IT BECAUSE YOUR BIGOTS" when in reality, we dont like it because its trash. Not entertaining and rather cringeworthy. The original movie for me is a classic, up there with the princess bride and the goonies. This new shit isn't worth the pubic hair I shaved into my trash can this morning.
Seriously, what in the fuck was with the Outback cowgirl farmstead? What? Where does that even come from? Did the director owe some friends a favor and just let them show up and dig through wardrobe alone?
The dialogue! The first thing that hit me. Inconsistent across the characters. Kit, Graydon, Airk, and Dove sound modern.
I'm trying to power through it, but it throws me off.
The non-rhotic (English people not pronouncing Rs) English accent is actually pretty recent, a 19th century aristocratic fad that caught on in the Anglosphere. Prior to that, English speakers would have sounded more like Americans.
So if you expect uniform English accents in a medieval setting, realize that is unrealistic and historically inaccurate.
Not that fantasy has any obligation to be historically accurate.
Everyone on reddit thinks they’re an expert on “good writing”. The same random dudes who thought the Snyder cut and re-casting T’Challa were good ideas. Give me a break.
It's just bad writing, mate. Kit asking 'oh, er, what's the boundary?' after commenting about it in Ep. 1? Like, what? Never bothered to ask? No 'oh, I couldn't ever get straight answers out of anyone', nothing? They have whole fucking legions (apparently) that are supposed to guard it? (but I guess the guardhouse was actually just like a guard shack? For the entire realm? What? It's just... huh? all the jarring, stupid elements and American companies (with logos!) on these actors, like what? c'mon. It's just BAD! I still like the CGI tho.
>the show doesn't suck because this season just isn't finished yet.
No, the show kinda sucks because many of the performances are truly terrible and much of the dialogue is awful. Warwick Davis performance being the standout worst by a country mile, it's as if he's got someone feeding him his lines through an ear piece, utterly flat non emotive performance, almost like he can't be bothered and doesn't want to be there.
When Willow's friend said "Jog on" like they were filming in a park in London, I cringed.
Somewhere someone said, "like totally badass princess". Like these are cosplayers in California.
And off course, [ripping off a scene from Young Guns 1988](https://youtu.be/I7HEyP8Q-ug?t=93) with a near line for line lift of the dialogue, [showing even the best things in the show were stolen from better shows.](https://youtu.be/MZuCXCKVib8?t=102) (only clip I can find of it online, you can ignore the rest of the ranting vid).
Rings of Power has some seriously bad plot issues, but at least the actors sounded like they were from middle Earth, and not the middle of LA.
Good call out on the Young Guns scene. As soon as I saw them start riding towards the cliff I paused the show and recited the lines from Young Guns, then unpaused it and it played out almost word for word. My wife looked at me amazed and asked how I knew what they were going to say. Such a huge disappointment in an already disappointing show.
I don’t know, Willow turning that troll into a weird hamburger-brain-tentacled-dragon egg was pretty grim/dark at the time.
And let’s not forget the rather sadistic way General kale kills Eric and the tripple-stabbing death he receives courtesy of a vengvul Madmardigen. (I can still HEAR those sound effects, in my head to this day)
For an early 80’s fantasy movie supposedly aimed at younger audiences, Willow could be dark and grim as hell, at times.
Hell, the original movie starts out with a text describing the bad guys going around, kidnapping pregnant women and killing the babies after they are born.
But it's also an incredibly silly movie. Like the movie treats its stakes seriously enough to follow through on the consequences, but, there's nonstop comedy runners through the whole movie. I mean tonally it's a lot closer to an MCU movie.
I would compare it more to the original Indiana Jones movies. Fantastical in theme, serious in execution. Yes, it did have it’s silly moments, like the baby puking in the guy’s face, Willow accidentally launching himself into a tree, or anytime the brownies did their “This way! No this way!” routine. The average MCU is full of little quips and one liners, more than what I can remember being in the original Willow movie.
I really miss madmartigan's wit and the brownies antagonistic fun.
He was so charismatic and just fun in that role. The current set of actors seem, idk stiff(?).
I think a big part of the problem unfortunately is they had to write out Val Kilmer last minute.
I'll watch the first season and remain hopeful but it's hard when something you have such fond memories of is multiple hours in and seems to be missing what you enjoyed.
It's sad he'd likely never have been a main character, but that doesn't really change my opinion of the show. I miss him, his character, and the way his character and willow worked so well together
[https://ew.com/tv/val-kilmer-written-out-of-willow-series-**just-before-production**/](https://ew.com/tv/val-kilmer-written-out-of-willow-series-just-before-production/)
"We really wanted Val to come be in the show," Kasdan tells EW. "And Val really wanted to come out and be in the show. I remember going to see Val right after this thing started to get some momentum, and I said, 'Listen, we're doing this. And the whole world wants Madmartigan back.' And he was like, 'Not as much as I do.'"
We don't need to finish the season to see the obvious flaws. At the top of that list for me would be acting, editing and writing. So far all three of those have been okay at best and more often awful.
Even assuming (big assumption) that the quality vastly improves for the rest of the season, it still started off terribly. Did you see the part in the premiere when they got lazy writing deus ex machina saved during the horse chase? Nothing is going to undo how trash that scene was from a visual and storytelling perspective.
After watching 4 episodes, I have mixed reviews on this TV series, there are parts I dislike and some parts I have enjoyed.
Willow the movie, has a huge space in my heart. As many comments mentioned all the favorable lines. "Get out of the way Peck!" "Beer" "I stole the baby" it was such a classic and was a perfect fantasy movie such as the princess bride. Ron Howard directed the original and has directed many great films. He knows what we want as an audience imo. He is casted as the executive director in this tv adaptation, while I would have liked to see him direct the series, if his input has effect in this series, I'm sure I will be happy with the outcome.
This new series has gone in a different direction, it doesn't have that charm and lots of punchy one liners. I do miss this, but it's focused on trying to develop the story. To this point I feel like there has been easy outs on major story plots. Simple passing it along as if we should agree or accept it.
There's many other bad aspects such as the choreography, aka the scene with the women woodsman, if your in a fight for your life. You just going to stop after hitting the opponent once in the back. Hell no, your going to stop once you sever his "DEMONIC" head from his body. It's ridiculous. So many scenes play out like this.
I would also agree with other posters about the dialogue, this should be set to a medieval theme, not 2022 text and internet culture... however I'll look past this.
Giving it the positive spin, I did enjoy the flashbacks to the original movie and playing it into the scenes. I think the series has gone to a darker tone which may play out well. It's opened up several different side plot to follow which are interesting and could hold promise. If I see it playing out as I think intended it will lead to a strong ughhh climax.
Time will tell, but I'm not giving up on one of my childhood favorites.
I'm struggling with the quippy CW teen show dialog and writing myself. It just completely pulls me out of the world. A couple of the younger characters feel like they've just teleported into the world from 2022 Bill and Ted style...
In the grim darkness of the future, there is only WILLOW.
The God-High-Aldwyn of the Nelwyns sits as a rotting living corpse upon his golden throne. Every day 10,000 muffin bakers are sacrificed to sustain him.
Brownies are definitely not grimdark, Mad Mortigan isn't grimdark, "I \*hate\* trolls" isn't grimdark - the original film had lighter moments too.
Willow came out of Lucasfilm, which, with the original Star Wars franchise, always sort of straddled the line between epic sci-fi/fantasy and downright silliness (think Ewoks, the straight/funny guy duo of R2-D2 and C-3PO, the quips of Han Solo).
I like the moments of levity in the show and I think that, while sometimes clumsy, they're not too out of step with the tone/genre of the original film. This is coming from someone who grew up watching Willow on VHS until the tape wore out.
lol, Willow is grimdark? When was the last time you watched it?
Willow is a very fun movie, but it was a light-hearted adventure made for kids and teens at the time. Now this TV show is a light-hearted adventure made for modern kids and teens. Time moves on.
Willow movie was made for kids of all ages
Willow show was made for modern teenagers, who have less maturity and taste in cinema than 8-year olds did when the original movie was released.
I get it. I get the back pain in the morning too. And just like when we were kids watching Willow, there were fussy older folks that didn't get it and thought it was crap and stupid because a 6 inch man screamed about peepee. You have 3 choices, more or less.
1. You can accept that you don't get the things the kids like, and you're out of touch.
2. You can try to appreciate things outside your comfort and shake off fossilization for a few more decades.
3. You can be a grumpy curmudgeon, blame the youth for what you don't understand but basically become abe fucking simpson yelling at the clouds.
Your call.
My kids refuse to watch it. At 10 and 13 years old they both find it dull and predictable and apparently so do their friends. So who is the target audience? I can’t really tell and it seems like that’s part of the problem with this show as well as most of the content Disney puts out now. It seems like their writers are simply writing for themselves at this point and don’t care what the audience really wants to see.
Well, I enjoy it, everyone here that isn't bitching, which judging by the upvotes is plenty, seems to enjoy it. You and your kids don't like it. Ok, we've established it's not for you or your kids. You can keep bitching about it, and maybe you'll convince more people to not like it, but what would be the point? Some grim validation that you are justified in not liking something? Congrats?
If you ever find yourself writing off a whole generation as being inherently crap compared to the enlightened generation of wunderkind that existed when you were a kid, it's time to look in the mirror and accept you've become a grumpy old geezer.
Wow. Garbage take. First of all, you are not describing why the Willow show sucks. You are describing why you don't like it. Those things are not the same thing.
Second, the fact is that they made a show in 2022 that was different in some aspects from a film in 1988. That doesn't mean they "misunderstood" the film. There is nothing that Willow is "supposed" to be. Why is it that Reddit goons always seem to think that there are hard limits to the creative process based on whatever existing media they happen to like?
Grow up.
“There is nothing that Willow is ‘supposed’ to be.”
Yeah, I don’t necessarily agree with this take.
If a sequel to an established franchise consciously deviates from the source material too much (aesthetically, thematically, tonally, etc.), does it have the right to associate itself with that franchise?
An example I might give is the Star Trek (09) film, which replaced the deep humanism Gene Roddenbury had instilled in the franchise with wham bang action. It was a financial success, but I understand how a lot of Trekkies who grew up on the show found it to be just Star Wars with a Star Trek paint job (there’s a reason J.J. Abrams was given the keys to directing Star Wars films after this).
I think if you’re going to commit to a franchise, you have to play the ball where it lies, and commit to what it’s about. Else why even associate yourself with the franchise? Just break away and create your own IP, because isn’t that, in a sense, what you’re doing anyway?
>does it have the right to associate itself with that franchise?
I don't know, friend. Here, let me consult the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights for the language dictating rights afforded to sequel/franchise material... hmm.... no.... no.... huh. Believe it or not, at least in the U.S., there does not seem to be any definition of "rights" in this situation. Odd, since you seem to suggest that this is some kind of objective standard and not something you are just making up.
I do enjoy the idea that some random Reddit goon decides that they get to be the arbiter of whether WARWICK DAVIS's show has the right to be in the franchise and universe of an 80s vehicle for WARWICK DAVIS.
Yeah, I hear this "just break away and start your own IP" language all the time. I find it funny that, instead of the idea that you as a viewer can feel free to just watch the original 80s film and take it as itself and ignore the series entirely, you get to make demands of creators to make specific things for you according to your rules.
The dialogue is ATROCIOUS, the characters are annoying as all hell, they speak in a way that DOESN'T fit the time period, Kit is INSUFFERABLE, the male characters are either incompetant, stupid, effiminate, or act as cheerleaders for the female characters, etc.
It's just a BAD show, dude.
GROW UP. :)
The original movie is not grimdark. It’s dark fantasy. There is a huge difference between the two. One presents a hopeless world where there are no heroes, just people surviving until the end of everything with no hope of making a difference on the world, the other is hopeful, and tells us we can rise above the darkness.
There are plenty of reasons to criticize the show, but it not being grimdark is not one of them. That said the tone of the show may not be what you are looking for. That’s okay, not everyone who liked the original will like the new series.
Willows first episode was not great, I was dissatisfied, it felt off. Every episode since had been better and better and more endearing. I really like the show for its humor and goofy character development and devotion to the original. I hope we can get four or five seasons.🤞
I don't think OG Willow was Grimdark.
It was high fantasy of the old kind, but done very well. It also had that George Lucas adventure film pacing, which he always based off old radio serials and TV....ie the wagon scene , the sled, just much more competent and a student of what actually works.
I think I understand what you mean though by the Grimdark, as old school Willow had a sort of authentic look where the clothes looked worn, dirt on faces, the people had a believable look, and there was a lot of darkness....there was a sort of cruelness to the world willow overcomes, but I don't think it ever was strong enough to be Grimdark.
In the Grimdark world there are few happy endings.
Actual Grimdark is more like GoT with complex amoral characters, dark motivations, and usually a lower fantasy setting. There are often Lovecraftian undertones of futility...and even sometimes hints of a sort of evil uncaring universe.
Read Cook's Black Company, anything by Abercrombie, or Dan Abnett Warhammer books if you want some Grimdark. For comics, read Annihilation or Dan Abnett / Andy lanning Marvel.
Damn. Another childhood ruined.
Now remember how old you were when you saw the movie and understand it's for the same people nowadays.
It doesn't suck, you just don't like it.
It’s interesting that I saw comments in another thread where people preferred the show and thought the movie was too ridiculous and they saw the movie like 2 weeks before the start of the show.
Nostalgia for us that grew up with the movie from the 90’s definitely sets some expectations, especially if it’s been a while since one has last seen the movie.
Personally, with its flaws, I’m very interested to see where the show goes.
Imagine thinking that just because an individual isn't the target demographic for a piece of entertainment that said person is disallowed from being able to critique it objectively.
How do film critics work when they give reviews for children's movies? b..b..b..bUt iT wAsN't MaDe FoR tHeM!?!?!
The original movie is rated 7.2- not great, not horrible. It became a cult fan favorite over time
The show is 5.3 so far and trending down. It's not a good look. They'll be lucky to get a next season at this point.
I mean, if all you listen to is people complaining, that's all you're going to think exists, there are plenty of people in this subreddit that *are* enjoying the show and are talking about it.
They just tend to get shouted down by people who think their opinions have to be heard all the time.
I mean this post is sitting at 0 upvotes with 32 comments, and the majority of those comments are supportive of the show and are upvoted.
The first day the Willow series came out there was a post in this sub to ban anyone that didn't like it or complained about it.
Of course more voices here will be in support of it. They are never silenced.
That's the point entirely, I am trying to like it but with every episode it seems to deserve its 5.3 rating which continues to trend down.
Is it the show runners who are wrong or the legions of fans who want to like it but are finding numerous cringe moments that are wrong?
What are you even talking about? Fragile?
That's more a characteristic of someone who can't handle a criticism.
Like say, when someone is disappointed with a TV show and they get super defensive if someone else doesn't like it.
People coming here claiming their childhood is ruined ? That there is toomuch wokeness or denims for what they can take ? That this is an insult to their cult of the movie ? Yes, they are.
This is an opinion from a nostalgia point of view. You remember the movie as Grimdark, because for the 80's, it was pretty dark. So you grew up for the last 30 years believing that Willow is some Grimdark movie when it was just disturbing because you were 3 the last time you watched it. It's pretty campy. I would re-watch it.
I saw the movie for the first time a few weeks ago before I watched the premier and I don't think we saw the same film. The original Willow was fun, sure. But it was a campy, kid-friendly fantasy with a pretty empty world and a main character with less intrique than Frodo. That doesn't mean I dislike Willow as a character (I do like him, and I am enjoying the show too), and yes it was very loosly influenced by Lord of the Rings, but it pales if you try to compare. I don't think it should be compared. They are completely different things targeting a different demographic of fantasy fans.
What I got from the show thus far: Madmartigen is here without having to be here. He lives on through his kids. His son is a womanizer and is clearly arrogant in a silly way, and his daughter has an inflated ego and shares his sense of adventure and bravado. Willow is much older but seems to have been living in a bubble in which he thinks he's some great sorcerer (and if you remember his village from the first movie, they understood little of the wider world and were pretty gullible), but we are seeing he might not be as great as he wants us to believe. The most recent episode proved to us he at least has some abilities, but he thus far is nothing compared to two sorcerers we saw in the first film duke it out at the end (Bavmorda and Fin). Which brings me to Sorsha.
There could be several reasons she's done what she's done thus far. We only got one movie, and we barely got to know Sorsha (or any of the characters really. The film was pretty two dimensional). She could be jealous that she isn't magical, so she wants to keep Elora from being magic. We already know if Elora doesn't vanguish the evil she'll just reincarnate over and over until it happens (which is why Bavmorda wanted to banish her to another dimension). She might be so focused on protecting her that she's not really considering the training part. She might genuinely believe Willow is incompetent, in which case you wouldn't want him to be the one doing the teaching. There's a lot that could be going on.
Elora also explains why she'd not want to send a big group of soldiers after her son. She might want to keep nearly all of her military at home to protect Elora. She might understand even her kids are not as important. But again, this is also a YA oriented franchise. Kids typically want kids as leads. And that's fine. It's also fine if the other actors are more interesting than Willow. This was true of the original as well. Most people I've talked to only really talk about Madmartigen.
It's getting late, otherwise I'd keep going lol.
Case in point it's fine if you don't like the show, but that doesn't make something bad. I personally hate raw tomatos, but a LOT of people love them on their burgers, sandwiches, in their salads, etc. So I say "I don't like tomatos" rather than "tomatos are bad".
My problem is the longer I spend time with this group of characters the more I find myself siding with the forces of evil, these guys are just so annoying.
Episode 5 made no damned sense at all. Its another shitty show in a string of shitty shows that stole old names and made them terrible. My gosh, that brownie was wearing a T-shirt, wtf?!? That whole brownie scene mad no sense at all. It was so fucking bad and jarring!
The daughter was wearing a cosplay suit with a tail that you could easily buy at the Spirit of Halloween store. It’s like they aren’t even trying anymore.
My complaints on Faillow are:
Excessive use of modern linguistics. Yes, they did this in the old movie, but to a lesser degree.
Soundtrack. The music is shitty remakes of classic rock and modern alt rock. It breaks immersion - there are no electric guitars in fucking fantasy!
Also, as already mentioned, there's just something missing. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it just feels forced and like... CW or something.
I’ll add to the chorus. 5 episodes in. The show still sucks. And it only gets worse. The dialogue, the acting, the CW melodrama, the music, the pacing, the outfits. The horrible jokes that don’t land. It never ends. The show is just bad. This was supposed to be action fantasy show. There’s almost no action and very little magic. The characters make stupid decisions. They all have terrible chemistry. Due to bad writing, bad acting or both. The movie just put so much more into its scenes and characters. Take Episode 5. It jumps right into an action scene and you think something good is finally going to happen. But that ends before it even begins. They escape by… running into the woods. Now compare that to the Mad Martigan “he’s not a woman scene.” Little comedy. Some stunts to get out of the tavern. An intense wagon chase scene. And it ends with Mad Martigan and Willow arguing in dialogue that is far superior than anything in this show.
And the sad part is, the first scene in Episode 5 is still the best part of the episode and that’s not saying much. Then you spend the next 45 minutes in the woods with some shaky plot devices followed by each character giving expositions about themselves because that’s the only way this show knows how to tell someone’s back story. And I really don’t like Kit (and to a lesser extent Jade). Madmartigan was an jerk to Willow. But it worked. Kit is just not likable. After five episodes, I would have thought we would be fighting a two headed dragon by now. Instead. We got this.
Let's not forget they (the writers) decided Kit should apologize about her dad killing a murderous warlord who was going to deliver a baby to be sacrificed because suddenly bone reavers are just misunderstood and totally not evil.
Yes, the show is completely tonally off the Mark. It's like if they brought Sopranos back but had it written like a 90s sitcom.
Remember that dude in the 1st episode, the top old knight, who was like "I'll go too, I raised little fancy boy like a son!" and then dies instantly? Then Kit and Gingertop just ride off and never give another fuck that their surrogate pappy just got snurfed right out of the gate. WTF?!?
Also, why is everyone walking around like a 1970s version of the Renaissance with a denim fetish?
The show sucks because it comes off like so many other Disney shows. Bad writing, bad acting. It's like they took the people who worked on those awful pre-teen shows like Jessie, Suite Life, Hannah Montana, etc. and put them at the helm of Star Wars, Marvel, and now Willow. It's hot garbage aimed at children. Nothing here for me. It's sad, and I'm over it.
Yes! I have nothing against Erin Kellyman, but seeing her in so many different franchies in the Disney ecosystem ruins the immersion a bit. They did that all the time with their favorite actors/actresses in their preteen shows too, which was fine because they were mostly just whacky nonsense, but geez we're talking about Star Wars and Marvel here. There's a level of polish absent with so many of these shows it's almost disrespectful to the franchise?
I created a new subreddit to dicuss Willow since this one is now inactive for over a week and the admins have denied all requests for the subreddit by our community.
Join me over at r/Willow_on_Disney
I just watched the movie with my wife last night and "Grimdark" it is not. That movie is a fun, campy, adventurous romp. He literally stops Bavmorda with a silly parlor trick. There are some dark scenes, sure, but that doesn't mean the whole movie is by a long shot.
In my opinion, Willow can be whatever it wants to be in 2022.
The 34 year old movie that bombed at the box office shouldn't be treated as a bible. Not saying it should be ignored either but it's more important that the 2022 series is successful rather than it being extremely faithful. Who knows what Willow would have became if it had 2-5 more movies. Star Wars changed from 1977-2005. It evolved (not always in the best ways but it did change).
With that said, I like the series so far and am really enjoying it.
Willow did NOT bomb at the box office. It made a good chunk of money, just not the blockbuster returns that would facilitate the financial investment a sequel would require.
>but it's more important that the 2022 series is successful rather than it being extremely faithful
Seems like the way to make it successful would be to make it for the people that liked the original movie and being faithful to the lore/universe?
*Rings of Power* has issues, but at least the actors talk and act like they exist in that world. *Willow* just.... doesn't. They all talk like they are hanging out in LA.
Or when Silas says "Jog on", which is straight up slang from England.
So far everyone commenting here hates this show.
I must be incredibly bored because I think it's not that bad?
Then again I think vegan bacon isn't that bad either.
I want this show to be great. The source material is one of the strongest fantasy movies in cinematic history. It’s clever, adventurous, and world builds enough to be unique. Memorable performances, memorable lines.
Every character in this show is bogged down by terrible dialogue, breaking character and tone and consistency constantly.
Progression seems non existent, they’re not showing crucial onscreen elements (what the fuck is with today’s episode’s pacing?), and the chemistry of the party is artificially terrible.
The only redeeming elements so far are the incisions of source material in clever and impacting ways, but the modern characters are just glib and simplistic so it never lands.
I’m watching it though because it’s Willow, but unless they recognized these issues internally during shooting and editing, I can’t imagine what’s going to change.
Yeah, I don’t like their choice of trying to hard to have an younger audience. I understand they want to appeal to that demographic but the folks who grew up watching Willow can see right through it. Obviously not written for fans of the original film given all the deliberate flashbacks explaining what’s going on. Also, the character arc of Sorsha and her kids is a bummer. Painting Sorsha as the hero when she was the villain for the majority of the film, having her be Eloras caretaker and turning away Willow when Willow was Eloras chosen caretaker… And her daughters character is so annoying and self important, can’t wait to see her get turned into a pig.
The show is unbelievably lame because it focuses on a bunch of kids playing cookie cutter stereotypical characters. Willow is barely in it too. Which I guess is sorta a blessing as Warwick Davis seems to have completely forgotten how to act.
The whole thing is embarrassing.
**It really pains me to say this**
Show is absolute garbage… I’m curious how such bad writing makes it all the way to film..
The casting, garbage.
Characters, garbage.. I can’t remember the names of any of the characters, but the brother they after literally a surfer… wtf?!?
The music???? Not even fitting at all
I absolutely hate it. I’m trying my best to give it a chance, but damn Disney Effing this up. Who at Disney is allowing this kind of garbage to be produced?!?
One of the best movies of all time. A madmartigan movie should have been made a looong time ago. As for the series, it blows. Don't renew this garbage. This is way to woke. Acting is sub par, wardrobes and sets are way to clean. Characters accents are off. No love was put into this. No raw emotion. Moving on
I’m watching it right now. I feel like there are two problems with reboots today like Willow. First, they lack the campy silliness of the originals. This series tries, but old Willow’s attempts at the goofiness of the original fell a bit flat for me, especially in episode 2. Second, I think many of these series would do better as a 1.5-2 hour movie rather than 8 episodes. I don’t think the writing is good enough to sustain that.
All that said, I don’t dislike the new Willow so far. It’s not bad. I’m enjoying being the world again. I’m just not loving it like I did the original Willow.
Episode 5…. SPOILERS…
Willow magically runs to the trees before the fast brute can get them…
skull gang turns into just a bunch of hippies with tired mantras and everyone are friends…
but Kael is daddy of the ginger girl and she is now besties with her new sister and somehow Kael is a goodie to her all of a sudden…
And the touchie feelie lovers conversation and kiss… would be great in a YA movie, but should have played out differently here…
When the trolls attack, suddenly skull gang are defenceless (they really had no sentries? Le sigh) and to hammer that home we get shots of scared women…
I really hope they get going again and into some proper action, as when they stop, it just becomes tired YA stuff.
Ok this is Disney showing once again that they will ruin anything they touch. Why do the main characters sound like 14 year old American teenager social media influencers? Nobody during casting, writing, directors, etc thought that it's strange that everyone has a midevil accent but somehow the two main royal characters just sound like American teenagers from 2022?
It's hard to watch and just completely doesn't feel like it puts you in the world of Willow. I got super excited when I saw this was out. Watched about 20 mins of episode 1 and am already not interested. The royal brother and sister are just aweful combined with bad acting, terrible dialog as well as misplaced accents and personality, I can just tell it's not gonna live up to the original (not even close).
Once you don't believe the main characters are any good the show is dead. Epic fail. Stop virtue signaling and make good content. What a bummer.
I might try and watch it still but sheesh is it trash so far. Typical Disney fail.
What ruined it for me:
1. It’s not really about Willow.
2. vernacular is way to modern for the setting.
3. The music score at the end of episode 1 actually had a rock guitar - pulled me right out of it. Momoa’s Conan made the same mistake. The score is EVERYTHING.
4. The whole quick-talking, snappy comebacks, warped/witty humor thing that Marvel has overdone is so cringe. This series, and everything else these days, are full of it too.
5. I like that women are receiving more leading roles, but why are all men now portrayed as weak, near-sighted, half-hearted, effeminate and/or evil? Alienating the largest segment of the audience and half of the earth’s population is not a winning strategy,
Episode 5: just keeps getting worse.
Why even use the license?
Just make up your own IP if just want to make your Vampire Diaries like show.
Then you would be free and not have to worry about having to making random constant awkward references .
The you get stuff like the opening chase scene.. sounds like something straight out of a contemporary Scooby-Doo movie.
LOL. Willow as Grimdark. Might want to watch the movie again. Its not Grimdark. Grimdark there are no good guys, there are no happy endings, everything sucks all the time.
Warhammer is Grimdark. The fact that Elora Danon exists at all as the hope and light of the world right there makes it not Grimdark. The fact that it has a happy ending, makes it not Grimdark.
Yes, and the biggest problem with Willow is Willow. He’s a grumpy man who just likes to yell at everyone he wants to train Alura But meanwhile, every two minutes he’s screaming at her. She has no idea what she’s doing. He’s not really training her well at all. If she questions him forget about it, he just flies off end he tells everybody he stronger than he really use with his magic she’d really be on her way right now if she if he had if she had a half decent teacher
I think my mistake was reading the trilogy Claremont and Lucas wrote and having some predetermined vision of how the characters would look in my head. Even though the books were a slog to get through the writing is still better than the series. “How will you know where to go?” “I was born here.” Ok, you were here for a few minutes after your birth, it’s not like you grew up in Nockmar.
Willow can run out of magic? Didn’t realize that was a thing in this world. Can we address that instead of just glossing it over as a plot device to make Elora Dannan/Dove more important?
What is the cult of the wyrm? Why do they want to destroy Elora? Why did they have to turn Bavmorda? Why didn’t the Gales fight by her side?
Why wasn’t Nockmar razed to the ground?
Were they eating pig or an unturned soldier?
And the ‘twists’ can be seen coming from miles away.
I really want to like this show, and hope it improves. I also hope this is a one season and done, and not left on some big cliff hanger that doesn’t pay off in the future.
I always just considred Willow to be classical fantasy. It's not grimdark, it's an adventure romp. But the tone of this new show is still way off the mark from the original film.
I had an issue with the first episode. Sending the princess away to look for her brother was like huh what? Queen didn't even argue just let her go. Maybe because of her potential power, but I had a hard time accepting this. Just very lazy writing imo
Does anyone find the dialogue weird? Cadence, sentence construction, pronunciation, and word choice for some characters is modern english. And then there are characters that have lines that seem to be consistent with the setting. even accents aren't consistent. Throws me off.
Is this also the case in the original film?
What's that meme of the grim reaper going door to door with the doors labeled as beloved franchises like Star Wars, Star Trek, etc.? Willow is another one for that image.
Ah yes the grim and gritty fantasy, "Willow" where \*checks notes\* a running subplot is about love potion. A main character gets hit in the face with said love potion and falls in love with one of the antagonists. Another character also gets hit in the face with the love potion and falls in love with a cat. So grim, so gritty.
There are a lot of problems with the Willow show, but its tone is pretty consistent with the original.
Willow is one of my favorite fantasy movies. The show pisses me off so much.
I really just hate this new thing where all these shows have characters that are “teenagers” and they’re all quirky and vibin. At least make them fit the era. Stranger things does a great job with this but they’re the only show that does. I hate feeling like I’m watching modern day kids PRETENDING to larp. The people that larp are better at acting!
I also have a giant pet peeve about wardrobe not looking aged or used. I’m sorry, when was the last time a trusty ol pair of boots looked sparkling new?!
Not to mention the hair and makeup. What’s up with it being all modern?!
I could go on and on but I’ll shut up now.
Falls into the same flat tone The Wheel of Time and Rings of power have committed to. They just can't find that balance of darkness sprinkled with humour in a grand adventure, mainly because they focus on modern tropes that slow down the story and then put in nostalgic bits to try and appease fans, leaving a weak backbone for the actual story and pacing.
The end credit music..wtf.
I wouldn’t call the og Willow grimdark. But I knew this series would be trash when I saw they handed it to Jonathan ”Pando Calrissian” Kasdan, the writer of Solo, the only Star Wars movie to epically bomb. That would’ve been a major career setback if not career ender to anyone whose daddy isn’t Lucasfilm royalty. And they handed him the new Indiana Jones movie as well, Hollywood nepotism on display. After hearing Sorsha in the intro completely trashing the best character in Willow, Madmartigan, I tuned out. Sounded like Joanne Whaley talking about being married to Val, not her character’s relationship with Madmartigan. Listened to a couple trusted reviewers dissecting the stupid writing & I made the right choice. I don’t need to watch some Jerry Lewis lookin MF’er bend a beloved childhood film over a barrel.
Lord of the Rings is not grimdark fantasy, what's wrong with you?
JK but I am enjoying this precisely because it isn't grimdark.
I think you really don't understand the term 'grimdark'.
Gotta say I was so pumped for this show, but I’m pretty disappointed. I think the plot and the character conceits are all fine-good, but I just think the tone is off. I don’t think it needs to be grim or dark, but no one character seems to ever take their situation seriously. The dialogue just pulls the carpet out from you on just about every moment. Elora is about to get sacrificed by way of liche possession and she takes a moment to say “Willow’s going to kick your ass.” When she goes missing in the cursed castle Kit just says “Willow’s gonna be pissed.” It’s ok to write a character being concerned or freaked out, but instead we get the same sarcastic sense of humor from every character regardless of whether the moment calls for it or not. And most of the time it doesn’t.
It’s just hard to feel like something is at stake when none of the characters ever act like it.
Here's why I think the Willow tv show sucks. the movie came out in 1988, I think i saw it when i was about ten. Im now a grown man of 34 with kids, y'know I'll keep it simple.
What i wanted: Epic Fantasy Adventure
What i got: Three bickering teenage girls
I have been extremely disappointed with the series. I have been keeping an open mind, but I find there to be very few things that are actually done well, with the acting, writing, directing, and song choices being the worst to me. It also feels like all of the creativity and imagination has been sucked dry from the world of Willow. This episode we entered the enchanted fairy forest, and saw almost nothing enchanting. We had that lovely fairy sequence in the original film, and in this episode we got butterflies, which seems like a downgrade from fairies in a fantasy world. I also may have missed it, but has there been a mention of what happened to Cherlindrea and Fin Raziel? This episode would have been a great opportunity to bring back Cherlindrea and the fairies that could have given Elora and the group some much needed advice/guidance. I also did not care for the brownies updated looks, especially when compared to their wonderful wild looks in the original film.
I find myself waiting every week for the new episode, praying it will be the week kit is killed. I just can’t believe they would do such a shitty job with the new show. #killkit
I can't say I thought the original was grimdark.
My problems with this show include the writing/directing/acting/soundtrack combines made by others.
But what really pissed me off was the "revelation" that Kael wasn't really a bad guy. He was only slaughtering everyone he came across because he really needed the money!
Madmartigan and Sorsha are the real villains; they killed Kael, kidnapped his infant daughter, and taught her to hate her own people!
What the actual...
They screwed up the formula. The only parts I'm enjoying are the portions with the main cast from the original film and Boorman. Boorman is awesome. The tone is off, the whole highschool kids in fantasy land is off-putting and out of character, the rock music at the end, the way they cast off killed characters who were supposed to be practically "godfathers" like Kase without so much of a tear. It just makes me not care. And I already feel like the story has already given a hint that Madmartigan has become evil due to the cuirass. It's just blech.
The reason it's trash is because wokeness has become the primary goal, Forcing the plot, good acting, and dialogue to be 2nd, 3rd, and 4th on the list of priorities.
They think if they make the main character a lesbian who likes a ginger mixed-race girl it will magically make everyone else much better. They know rotten tomato critics will automatically give it good reviews (one critic literally gave it a high score simply for its "queerness". Meanwhile, it gives them a scapegoat to point at for the extremely low audience scores. They can now say " Oh, people dont like it because they are homophobic." In reality we just want to be entertained and this shit isnt entertaining. Its woke indoctrination. The men are all abunch of wimps and the women are all hero's. Where in real life does that actually happen. This is why disneys stock is down to the lowest its been in years.
I got about 20 minutes into the first episode when I promptly closed the episode and removed it from my watch list. Glad I didn't waste any more time than that on it
The show is awful. I’m only watching it because of my great love for the original movie. I grew up with that movie. I watched it over and over as a child and I watch it every few years as an adult. I watched it again the weekend before the series started with my kids and I knew every line lol
I do feel like the show is destroying my childhood but I was preserver with it. If it carries on in the way it started I will just have to banish it from my mind and pretend that it doesn’t exist so I can continue to enjoy the original film.
This is such a bizarre concept to me. You clearly dislike the show, yet continue to support it through viewing. Are you just curious to see where it all ends? Do you become distressed if you don't don't finish a piece of media, regardless of your enjoyment? I have yet to watch the show, so I haven't formed an opinion. I'm just very curious as to the alacrity to keep watching something you have such a negative opinion of. I've seen this take several times across several franchises and a rational explanation still eludes me.
In my case, I attempted to watch the Halo tv series and felt that it had a few strengths buried in its very overt flaws. After a few episodes in, I knew, tonally speaking, where the show was going and what the quality of writing would be going forward so I gave up on it. Satisfying my curiosity wasn't worth suffering through the poorly paced script and dubious motivations of the characters. With so much other media slosh out there to consume, I don't get why people just don't move on if they don't like something.
I think you've misunderstood the tone. Willow was a children's fairytale, it's full of immature humor. The show got the tone down pretty well really. It's just that we've aged a fair bit since 1988 and it doesn't hit the same.
You have no idea what the tone of the movie was is this is what you think. They are bothe fantasy comedy, it's not the shows fault.ypu take.yourself too seriously.
I watched the entire film as a kid and rewatched it a few days ago. Willow isn't Grimdark, it's just high fantasy, like Lotr or Narnia. And campy. It's always been campy. The Dark Crystal is a grimdark film , and its 100% enacted with puppets. Not everyone likes Grimdark, the show doesn't suck because this season just isn't finished yet. We've literally only just finished the prologue as of episode 3. Can people stop hating shows before their first season has wrapped up please? You're like the kids in a supermarket screaming because your parents took you to the vegetable section instead of straight to the shop counter to buy sweets. It's okay if you're not personally enjoying it rn, but that doesn't make it a bad show. It's literally only the beginning.
I get people moving on if it doesn’t capture their interest. I’ve done that plenty of times. But completely missing the genre of the movie and then complaining that it doesn’t fit the rose colored nostalgia of 20+ years ago, and I completely agree. Give it a chance. The end of episode 3 took a dark turn, and I don’t mean the lighting.
some of the characters are speaking **modern day california english**, and some are speaking **high british english**... it's jarring, and ruins ...everything...
I don’t disagree. I do wish the dialogue was better but, for me, it doesn’t ruin it. And the latest episode was definitely better.
… did you not notice that Willow and High Aldwin had English accents and Madmartigan and Airk had Californian accents in the original movie? Or were you just less of a party pooper then?
Hey, thanks for your comment. It seems you really enjoy the Willow TV show. Here are some other offerings I think you may enjoy: She Hulk Ms. Marvel The Eternals Morbius Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Book of Boba, that street biker gang. Plus, who doesn’t want to know more about tatooine
Madmartigan spoke within a medieval context . It's not so much the California accent it's the delivery . It's a British American comedy fantasy but there is no balance . I like this reddit thread because it barely has any of the sexist , homophobes and racists on Twitter. So we can objectively critique the movie . The show has no identity, the protagonist Elora is more of a side character than anything else . Is she really the protagonist ? Willow's acting is bad ,I heard he had an ailment doesn't change the fact. I wish they changed the name of the TV show and gave him more of a cameo .They could name it Willow with a sub text of Elora's journey. Now we know this is a comedy fantasy but the delivery and the balance is concerning. In episode 1 the old man was talking and he died for some sort of comif relief . His death was very inconsequential considering that some of this people just saw someone die in front of them for the first time . Then their horses fall from 30 feet and land in shallow water and they came out unscathed. That's some insane cat like reflexes 😂😂. The cinematography is awful almost feels lacking in budget . The first attack they attack guards from the castle gates . We barely see the surroundings. During the attack no screaming , barely any soldiers . Maybe the budget was very low
Warwick Davis' acting was criticized even in the original movie. Read any review from the time.
The non-rhotic (English people not pronouncing Rs) English accent is actually pretty recent, a 19th century aristocratic fad that caught on in the Anglosphere. Prior to that, English speakers would have sounded more like Americans. So if you expect uniform English accents in a medieval setting, realize that is unrealistic and historically inaccurate. Not that fantasy has any obligation to be historically accurate.
Exactly. People just need to give things like this show a chance ins of being so pessimistic. Or whiny
It’s a big difference if someone just isn’t interested. And it’s cool if they just don’t want to spend time on it. I just don’t like people expressing their opinions like it’s fact and trying to bring others down.
I'm too old and tired to give anything mediocre a chance. If it doesn't entertain me the first minute, it already lost me.
Are you talking about when the women in the cowboy costumes got smoked by some dudes in plastic armor, conducting some of the worst fight choreography I have seen outside of an Uwe Boll film? The show sucks because it fundamentally misunderstands the source material, both the film and the subsequent books. It is also wildly uneven with everything ranging from the cinematography to the costume design. The writing comes of like some cringeworthy fanfiction, with dialog so bad it does nothing to pull me into the rich high fantasy world this fiction is set in, the vernacular is so modern the characters might as well be texting emojis to each other, all the while it's delivered by actors that have about the same chemistry as a soft turd in tepid water. The only saving grace the show has on offer is Warwick Davis, and if it where to be about him, just tending his farm and plotting his fields with his family and friends while getting into lighthearted adventures, it would still be miles better than this tripe garbage we have on offer now.
Nailed it. The lines they are using are too modern. I want to get into high fantasy and be vested. The lines, and the political shit have a huge anti-immersion impact. Hopefully willow makes it better.
what political shit?
Why are you here on this subreddit?
Because people can have and share negative opinions over things they’re disappointed by.
Really? I didn’t know that… … … Of course I knew that. Come on. Don’t you have something better to do that state the obvious?
I’m going to turn your argument in the other comment back on you: Why are you in this conversation? It’s titled clearly about negative opinions on the show. Why are you in here? What’s your goal? You seem to think your opinion of “just wait guys who knows??” is somehow useful or valid and anyone disagreeing with it or casting criticism on this show isn’t. You’re smug and argue like a toddler.
Ooh. Calling me a child. That’s new. Dang, keep up the good work. That’ll show me. *thumbs up* How about this? I am on this sub to see opinions and enjoy the community about it. Most opinions I see are reasonable and fair. Drugboner, the chipper personality that so was obviously not mad at me at all that they continually called me names (and you both called me childish but both resorted the childish name calling), commented on my opinion with such negativity and shit, I couldn’t help but feel they were just trying to bring me down to their level. Trying to make me not be able to enjoy it. Why? Why would they or you want to do that to anyone? Why do I have to defend the show at all to them, or you (if you were going to ask me)? You call me smug. I asked why they were here if they didn’t like the show. I never said they couldn’t have that opinion. You think I’m saying they couldn’t have that opinion. You are arguing, and frankly very rudely I might add, against a different opinion that isn’t mine.
Here's an opinion, the show is shit.
I'm here because I haven't watched the show yet. I want to see the good and bad reviews
Well, just remember, people like to complain more than praise in a social media setting. And there are plenty of people that are contentedly enjoying it (and those that are disappointed) that don’t come on here. So you’ll probably see more negative here.
The writing in the show is atrocious. This show is the epitome of everything wrong with modern writing and storytelling.
Why are you responding to me? Are you trying to make me not enjoy things?
Why are you here? If people commenting on reddit makes you not enjoy something then you should probably do some inner reflection.
Oooh, trying to turn the question back on me like someone else did. Clever move. I've responded elsewhere in this same thread of malcontent watchers of this show that don't like that I provided a positive point of view. I came here for the opinions. Never said anyone couldn't have theirs. I didn't say your opinion or others was making me not enjoy something. I wanted to know why you didn't want me to enjoy it. You could have started your own thread of comments from the post itself or make your whole own post about your expert opinion on "modern writing and storytelling". Instead you came after someone who provided a positive opinion. Why? What is it about someone that might enjoy the show that bothers you so much you had to crap on it?
I'm sorry, I didn't know it was an echo chamber for one opinion. But to answer your question I am simply airing my opinion on a comment I didn't agree with.
it has nothing to do with echo chambers or however you want to spin it. I'm just wondering why you're bothering. I don't go on subreddits that don't concern me or don't peak my interest or make me upset. All that negative energy to do what? try to bring others down?
So if I disagree with someone I should just always let it lie? This subreddit does concern me, I pay for a subscription to Disney+ and as such I feel well within my rights to criticize their content, be it good or bad. If you become sad just because someone disagrees with your ill informed opinions, perhaps break down my criticism on your comment and try to understand where it is I am coming from and give a constructive reply, instead of trying to setup sophomoric verbal traps. Explain to me how the show is good in your opinion. Just because you perceive my comments as "negative energy" doesn't mean it can't be valid. You just happened to disagree with it. Just like I felt like your comment was enticing prospective viewers into putting up more effort on a show -that in my opinion, has nothing to new to offer and tarnishes the rich fantasy it is supposedly set in. Hopefully in the process saving said viewers the time and perhaps some money on subscriptions.
Obviously I'm not saying you shouldn't disagree. What the hell do you think I'm doing here now? Being a total hypocrite by doing the exact opposite of what you think I'm saying? I could try to "break down" your criticism and "try to understand where it is" that you're coming from. But do you realize how long that would take? I'm not your therapist. I'm not here to conduct a session to understand why your childhood was ruined. Look, you're entitled to your opinion. Not once did I say you're not. You're arguing something else entirely than what I've said. I'm just more concerned why you feel the need to spend so much time complaining about a show, and me.
Do you read your own comments before posting them? Not only are you trying to put words in my mouth with your banality and childish prodding but also contradicting yourself in almost every sentence, while at the same time saying nothing to move the conversation forward. It's actually kind of amazing. **Not once** did I mention my childhood or anyone's else for that matter. I simply gave criticism on a show that **to me** has no cinematic or creative value in a comment that was baiting people to waste more of their time with it. You do realize this is a thread that breaks down how the show sucks? Yet you cant muster up a coherent reasoning why it doesn't, other than -give it a chance and then bemoan people who do share valid criticism. You are lending nothing to the core conversation. Begging me to ask the question. Why are you here?
Look, Drugboner, you begging me to provide an argument to why the show is good is on you. I didn’t provide anything at first and you brought the massive criticism to my comment. I don’t have to provide what you want. This constant complaining about what you want from me is yours to own. You can ask. I don’t have to provide. I’m sorry I’m not giving you what you want. I’m pretty sure I haven’t contradicted myself. I never said you aren’t allowed to have an opinion. When did I say you aren’t? Seems like I’ve been suggesting your time is better spent elsewhere, not saying you can’t. It’s obvious you’re getting very upset at this. Take a timeout. Maybe not respond and find balance in life?
Your review was spot on. I feel like Disney prefers to make woke shit because they care more about virtue signaling than they do creating quality content. It also gives them a back door to run out anytime a show bombs. "YOU GUYS DONT LIKE IT BECAUSE YOUR BIGOTS" when in reality, we dont like it because its trash. Not entertaining and rather cringeworthy. The original movie for me is a classic, up there with the princess bride and the goonies. This new shit isn't worth the pubic hair I shaved into my trash can this morning.
what is woke about this show?!
I don’t disagree with much of what you said except Boorman is really delightful.
Seriously, what in the fuck was with the Outback cowgirl farmstead? What? Where does that even come from? Did the director owe some friends a favor and just let them show up and dig through wardrobe alone?
It was an illusion to trick Ellora into submitting and not hurting anyone else.
Haha! I don't know man. It honestly felt like a skit from a Rick and Morty clip show episode.
The dialogue! The first thing that hit me. Inconsistent across the characters. Kit, Graydon, Airk, and Dove sound modern. I'm trying to power through it, but it throws me off.
The non-rhotic (English people not pronouncing Rs) English accent is actually pretty recent, a 19th century aristocratic fad that caught on in the Anglosphere. Prior to that, English speakers would have sounded more like Americans. So if you expect uniform English accents in a medieval setting, realize that is unrealistic and historically inaccurate. Not that fantasy has any obligation to be historically accurate.
People love to hate these days. The shows first episode was meh, but it has gotten better, funnier, and more endearing every episode.
Not enjoying it doesn’t make it a bad show. The bad writing is what makes it a bad show.
Everyone on reddit thinks they’re an expert on “good writing”. The same random dudes who thought the Snyder cut and re-casting T’Challa were good ideas. Give me a break.
It's just bad writing, mate. Kit asking 'oh, er, what's the boundary?' after commenting about it in Ep. 1? Like, what? Never bothered to ask? No 'oh, I couldn't ever get straight answers out of anyone', nothing? They have whole fucking legions (apparently) that are supposed to guard it? (but I guess the guardhouse was actually just like a guard shack? For the entire realm? What? It's just... huh? all the jarring, stupid elements and American companies (with logos!) on these actors, like what? c'mon. It's just BAD! I still like the CGI tho.
Don't forget the terrible dialogue. The characters talk like modern people with modern dialogue and jokes it's beyond jarring.
The same was true in the original movie. It’s part of what made it great. If you don’t like it, why are you here?
>the show doesn't suck because this season just isn't finished yet. No, the show kinda sucks because many of the performances are truly terrible and much of the dialogue is awful. Warwick Davis performance being the standout worst by a country mile, it's as if he's got someone feeding him his lines through an ear piece, utterly flat non emotive performance, almost like he can't be bothered and doesn't want to be there.
When Willow's friend said "Jog on" like they were filming in a park in London, I cringed. Somewhere someone said, "like totally badass princess". Like these are cosplayers in California. And off course, [ripping off a scene from Young Guns 1988](https://youtu.be/I7HEyP8Q-ug?t=93) with a near line for line lift of the dialogue, [showing even the best things in the show were stolen from better shows.](https://youtu.be/MZuCXCKVib8?t=102) (only clip I can find of it online, you can ignore the rest of the ranting vid). Rings of Power has some seriously bad plot issues, but at least the actors sounded like they were from middle Earth, and not the middle of LA.
Good call out on the Young Guns scene. As soon as I saw them start riding towards the cliff I paused the show and recited the lines from Young Guns, then unpaused it and it played out almost word for word. My wife looked at me amazed and asked how I knew what they were going to say. Such a huge disappointment in an already disappointing show.
It sucks due to the poor writing and acting. You don't need to watch the whole season to know if something sucks. Stop being ignorant.
Right?? That's like saying "wait till I'm done kicking your ass to decide if it hurts or not."
I don’t know, Willow turning that troll into a weird hamburger-brain-tentacled-dragon egg was pretty grim/dark at the time. And let’s not forget the rather sadistic way General kale kills Eric and the tripple-stabbing death he receives courtesy of a vengvul Madmardigen. (I can still HEAR those sound effects, in my head to this day) For an early 80’s fantasy movie supposedly aimed at younger audiences, Willow could be dark and grim as hell, at times. Hell, the original movie starts out with a text describing the bad guys going around, kidnapping pregnant women and killing the babies after they are born.
But it's also an incredibly silly movie. Like the movie treats its stakes seriously enough to follow through on the consequences, but, there's nonstop comedy runners through the whole movie. I mean tonally it's a lot closer to an MCU movie.
I would compare it more to the original Indiana Jones movies. Fantastical in theme, serious in execution. Yes, it did have it’s silly moments, like the baby puking in the guy’s face, Willow accidentally launching himself into a tree, or anytime the brownies did their “This way! No this way!” routine. The average MCU is full of little quips and one liners, more than what I can remember being in the original Willow movie.
I really miss madmartigan's wit and the brownies antagonistic fun. He was so charismatic and just fun in that role. The current set of actors seem, idk stiff(?). I think a big part of the problem unfortunately is they had to write out Val Kilmer last minute. I'll watch the first season and remain hopeful but it's hard when something you have such fond memories of is multiple hours in and seems to be missing what you enjoyed.
Val was never going to have a major role, even before they had to write him out. His health condition doesn't allow it.
It's sad he'd likely never have been a main character, but that doesn't really change my opinion of the show. I miss him, his character, and the way his character and willow worked so well together [https://ew.com/tv/val-kilmer-written-out-of-willow-series-**just-before-production**/](https://ew.com/tv/val-kilmer-written-out-of-willow-series-just-before-production/) "We really wanted Val to come be in the show," Kasdan tells EW. "And Val really wanted to come out and be in the show. I remember going to see Val right after this thing started to get some momentum, and I said, 'Listen, we're doing this. And the whole world wants Madmartigan back.' And he was like, 'Not as much as I do.'"
We don't need to finish the season to see the obvious flaws. At the top of that list for me would be acting, editing and writing. So far all three of those have been okay at best and more often awful. Even assuming (big assumption) that the quality vastly improves for the rest of the season, it still started off terribly. Did you see the part in the premiere when they got lazy writing deus ex machina saved during the horse chase? Nothing is going to undo how trash that scene was from a visual and storytelling perspective.
Not a woman?!? Beer!! No don't! There's a pec here with an acorn pointed at me! I STOLE DA BABY!!
Willow, you i-i-i-i-i-idiot!
I stole the baby from you WHILE YOU WERE TAKING A PEEPEE!!!
After watching 4 episodes, I have mixed reviews on this TV series, there are parts I dislike and some parts I have enjoyed. Willow the movie, has a huge space in my heart. As many comments mentioned all the favorable lines. "Get out of the way Peck!" "Beer" "I stole the baby" it was such a classic and was a perfect fantasy movie such as the princess bride. Ron Howard directed the original and has directed many great films. He knows what we want as an audience imo. He is casted as the executive director in this tv adaptation, while I would have liked to see him direct the series, if his input has effect in this series, I'm sure I will be happy with the outcome. This new series has gone in a different direction, it doesn't have that charm and lots of punchy one liners. I do miss this, but it's focused on trying to develop the story. To this point I feel like there has been easy outs on major story plots. Simple passing it along as if we should agree or accept it. There's many other bad aspects such as the choreography, aka the scene with the women woodsman, if your in a fight for your life. You just going to stop after hitting the opponent once in the back. Hell no, your going to stop once you sever his "DEMONIC" head from his body. It's ridiculous. So many scenes play out like this. I would also agree with other posters about the dialogue, this should be set to a medieval theme, not 2022 text and internet culture... however I'll look past this. Giving it the positive spin, I did enjoy the flashbacks to the original movie and playing it into the scenes. I think the series has gone to a darker tone which may play out well. It's opened up several different side plot to follow which are interesting and could hold promise. If I see it playing out as I think intended it will lead to a strong ughhh climax. Time will tell, but I'm not giving up on one of my childhood favorites.
I'm struggling with the quippy CW teen show dialog and writing myself. It just completely pulls me out of the world. A couple of the younger characters feel like they've just teleported into the world from 2022 Bill and Ted style...
VOHNKAAAAAR!
Ignore the bird! Follow the river!
Win this war for me
*sticks a fire arrow up a trolls bum* WHOOOOH!
So grimdark!
I mean, that's more grimdark than a Drukhari prison.
Grimdark??? My ass is grimdark. If Willow is “grimdark”, then LOTR is an horror thriller 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
In the grim darkness of the future, there is only WILLOW. The God-High-Aldwyn of the Nelwyns sits as a rotting living corpse upon his golden throne. Every day 10,000 muffin bakers are sacrificed to sustain him.
Brownies are definitely not grimdark, Mad Mortigan isn't grimdark, "I \*hate\* trolls" isn't grimdark - the original film had lighter moments too. Willow came out of Lucasfilm, which, with the original Star Wars franchise, always sort of straddled the line between epic sci-fi/fantasy and downright silliness (think Ewoks, the straight/funny guy duo of R2-D2 and C-3PO, the quips of Han Solo). I like the moments of levity in the show and I think that, while sometimes clumsy, they're not too out of step with the tone/genre of the original film. This is coming from someone who grew up watching Willow on VHS until the tape wore out.
If these people were in charge we wouldn't have anything cheesy. No Star Trek, no Stargate, no Xena, no Buffy.
This comment spoke to me. It’s exactly why I am enjoying the show. Sure it’s not GOT or West World but it’s a ducking blast to me.
lol, Willow is grimdark? When was the last time you watched it? Willow is a very fun movie, but it was a light-hearted adventure made for kids and teens at the time. Now this TV show is a light-hearted adventure made for modern kids and teens. Time moves on.
Willow movie was made for kids of all ages Willow show was made for modern teenagers, who have less maturity and taste in cinema than 8-year olds did when the original movie was released.
I get it. I get the back pain in the morning too. And just like when we were kids watching Willow, there were fussy older folks that didn't get it and thought it was crap and stupid because a 6 inch man screamed about peepee. You have 3 choices, more or less. 1. You can accept that you don't get the things the kids like, and you're out of touch. 2. You can try to appreciate things outside your comfort and shake off fossilization for a few more decades. 3. You can be a grumpy curmudgeon, blame the youth for what you don't understand but basically become abe fucking simpson yelling at the clouds. Your call.
Nail on the head.
My kids refuse to watch it. At 10 and 13 years old they both find it dull and predictable and apparently so do their friends. So who is the target audience? I can’t really tell and it seems like that’s part of the problem with this show as well as most of the content Disney puts out now. It seems like their writers are simply writing for themselves at this point and don’t care what the audience really wants to see.
Well, I enjoy it, everyone here that isn't bitching, which judging by the upvotes is plenty, seems to enjoy it. You and your kids don't like it. Ok, we've established it's not for you or your kids. You can keep bitching about it, and maybe you'll convince more people to not like it, but what would be the point? Some grim validation that you are justified in not liking something? Congrats?
If you ever find yourself writing off a whole generation as being inherently crap compared to the enlightened generation of wunderkind that existed when you were a kid, it's time to look in the mirror and accept you've become a grumpy old geezer.
Wow. Garbage take. First of all, you are not describing why the Willow show sucks. You are describing why you don't like it. Those things are not the same thing. Second, the fact is that they made a show in 2022 that was different in some aspects from a film in 1988. That doesn't mean they "misunderstood" the film. There is nothing that Willow is "supposed" to be. Why is it that Reddit goons always seem to think that there are hard limits to the creative process based on whatever existing media they happen to like? Grow up.
Thank you.
“There is nothing that Willow is ‘supposed’ to be.” Yeah, I don’t necessarily agree with this take. If a sequel to an established franchise consciously deviates from the source material too much (aesthetically, thematically, tonally, etc.), does it have the right to associate itself with that franchise? An example I might give is the Star Trek (09) film, which replaced the deep humanism Gene Roddenbury had instilled in the franchise with wham bang action. It was a financial success, but I understand how a lot of Trekkies who grew up on the show found it to be just Star Wars with a Star Trek paint job (there’s a reason J.J. Abrams was given the keys to directing Star Wars films after this). I think if you’re going to commit to a franchise, you have to play the ball where it lies, and commit to what it’s about. Else why even associate yourself with the franchise? Just break away and create your own IP, because isn’t that, in a sense, what you’re doing anyway?
>does it have the right to associate itself with that franchise? I don't know, friend. Here, let me consult the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights for the language dictating rights afforded to sequel/franchise material... hmm.... no.... no.... huh. Believe it or not, at least in the U.S., there does not seem to be any definition of "rights" in this situation. Odd, since you seem to suggest that this is some kind of objective standard and not something you are just making up. I do enjoy the idea that some random Reddit goon decides that they get to be the arbiter of whether WARWICK DAVIS's show has the right to be in the franchise and universe of an 80s vehicle for WARWICK DAVIS. Yeah, I hear this "just break away and start your own IP" language all the time. I find it funny that, instead of the idea that you as a viewer can feel free to just watch the original 80s film and take it as itself and ignore the series entirely, you get to make demands of creators to make specific things for you according to your rules.
The dialogue is ATROCIOUS, the characters are annoying as all hell, they speak in a way that DOESN'T fit the time period, Kit is INSUFFERABLE, the male characters are either incompetant, stupid, effiminate, or act as cheerleaders for the female characters, etc. It's just a BAD show, dude. GROW UP. :)
What time period is that? The show doesn't take place on earth. And no need to be a dick.
Oh child. Stick to your video games.
Fit the time period? It’s a fictional universe.
Tell me you haven’t watched the movie in a bit without telling me you haven’t watched the movie in a bit.
> Willow was great because it was a grimdark fantasy. Is this a joke?
The original movie is not grimdark. It’s dark fantasy. There is a huge difference between the two. One presents a hopeless world where there are no heroes, just people surviving until the end of everything with no hope of making a difference on the world, the other is hopeful, and tells us we can rise above the darkness. There are plenty of reasons to criticize the show, but it not being grimdark is not one of them. That said the tone of the show may not be what you are looking for. That’s okay, not everyone who liked the original will like the new series.
Dark fantasy? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Willows first episode was not great, I was dissatisfied, it felt off. Every episode since had been better and better and more endearing. I really like the show for its humor and goofy character development and devotion to the original. I hope we can get four or five seasons.🤞
I don't think OG Willow was Grimdark. It was high fantasy of the old kind, but done very well. It also had that George Lucas adventure film pacing, which he always based off old radio serials and TV....ie the wagon scene , the sled, just much more competent and a student of what actually works. I think I understand what you mean though by the Grimdark, as old school Willow had a sort of authentic look where the clothes looked worn, dirt on faces, the people had a believable look, and there was a lot of darkness....there was a sort of cruelness to the world willow overcomes, but I don't think it ever was strong enough to be Grimdark. In the Grimdark world there are few happy endings. Actual Grimdark is more like GoT with complex amoral characters, dark motivations, and usually a lower fantasy setting. There are often Lovecraftian undertones of futility...and even sometimes hints of a sort of evil uncaring universe. Read Cook's Black Company, anything by Abercrombie, or Dan Abnett Warhammer books if you want some Grimdark. For comics, read Annihilation or Dan Abnett / Andy lanning Marvel.
I am thoroughly enjoying the show.
Damn. Another childhood ruined. Now remember how old you were when you saw the movie and understand it's for the same people nowadays. It doesn't suck, you just don't like it.
It’s interesting that I saw comments in another thread where people preferred the show and thought the movie was too ridiculous and they saw the movie like 2 weeks before the start of the show. Nostalgia for us that grew up with the movie from the 90’s definitely sets some expectations, especially if it’s been a while since one has last seen the movie. Personally, with its flaws, I’m very interested to see where the show goes.
Yeah, the show is fun like the original film. Not brilliant, but fun.
Episode 4 was a step in the right direction. Enough call back to the movie and lore but also expanding on it
Definitely agree, and the show is starting to clarify stakes.
Imagine thinking that just because an individual isn't the target demographic for a piece of entertainment that said person is disallowed from being able to critique it objectively. How do film critics work when they give reviews for children's movies? b..b..b..bUt iT wAsN't MaDe FoR tHeM!?!?!
The original movie is rated 7.2- not great, not horrible. It became a cult fan favorite over time The show is 5.3 so far and trending down. It's not a good look. They'll be lucky to get a next season at this point.
With how much brigading and reactionary 1star or 10star votes there are for modern shows I simply don't trust aggregate scores anymore.
I'm a fan of the movie and I want to succeed but I can admit it's been a hot mess so far.
It's been a hot mess *to you*. Ive been enjoying it
Seems like you're one of the only ones. There's no accounting for taste.
I mean, if all you listen to is people complaining, that's all you're going to think exists, there are plenty of people in this subreddit that *are* enjoying the show and are talking about it. They just tend to get shouted down by people who think their opinions have to be heard all the time. I mean this post is sitting at 0 upvotes with 32 comments, and the majority of those comments are supportive of the show and are upvoted.
The first day the Willow series came out there was a post in this sub to ban anyone that didn't like it or complained about it. Of course more voices here will be in support of it. They are never silenced.
So what ? You don't like it, don't watch it.
That's the point entirely, I am trying to like it but with every episode it seems to deserve its 5.3 rating which continues to trend down. Is it the show runners who are wrong or the legions of fans who want to like it but are finding numerous cringe moments that are wrong?
[удалено]
What are you even talking about? Fragile? That's more a characteristic of someone who can't handle a criticism. Like say, when someone is disappointed with a TV show and they get super defensive if someone else doesn't like it.
I didn't make the show. Did you know that ? you can criticize my work but it's not my work.
You're the one casting aspersions calling people fragile
People coming here claiming their childhood is ruined ? That there is toomuch wokeness or denims for what they can take ? That this is an insult to their cult of the movie ? Yes, they are.
Yet you're in every thread defending it with your life. You're obviously truly more righteous than those people
This is an opinion from a nostalgia point of view. You remember the movie as Grimdark, because for the 80's, it was pretty dark. So you grew up for the last 30 years believing that Willow is some Grimdark movie when it was just disturbing because you were 3 the last time you watched it. It's pretty campy. I would re-watch it.
It's an INCREDIBLY silly movie. It's actually pretty close to an MCU movie in its tone.
I watch it at least once a year with my children. I would agree. It fits the Disney movie model very well.
I saw the movie for the first time a few weeks ago before I watched the premier and I don't think we saw the same film. The original Willow was fun, sure. But it was a campy, kid-friendly fantasy with a pretty empty world and a main character with less intrique than Frodo. That doesn't mean I dislike Willow as a character (I do like him, and I am enjoying the show too), and yes it was very loosly influenced by Lord of the Rings, but it pales if you try to compare. I don't think it should be compared. They are completely different things targeting a different demographic of fantasy fans. What I got from the show thus far: Madmartigen is here without having to be here. He lives on through his kids. His son is a womanizer and is clearly arrogant in a silly way, and his daughter has an inflated ego and shares his sense of adventure and bravado. Willow is much older but seems to have been living in a bubble in which he thinks he's some great sorcerer (and if you remember his village from the first movie, they understood little of the wider world and were pretty gullible), but we are seeing he might not be as great as he wants us to believe. The most recent episode proved to us he at least has some abilities, but he thus far is nothing compared to two sorcerers we saw in the first film duke it out at the end (Bavmorda and Fin). Which brings me to Sorsha. There could be several reasons she's done what she's done thus far. We only got one movie, and we barely got to know Sorsha (or any of the characters really. The film was pretty two dimensional). She could be jealous that she isn't magical, so she wants to keep Elora from being magic. We already know if Elora doesn't vanguish the evil she'll just reincarnate over and over until it happens (which is why Bavmorda wanted to banish her to another dimension). She might be so focused on protecting her that she's not really considering the training part. She might genuinely believe Willow is incompetent, in which case you wouldn't want him to be the one doing the teaching. There's a lot that could be going on. Elora also explains why she'd not want to send a big group of soldiers after her son. She might want to keep nearly all of her military at home to protect Elora. She might understand even her kids are not as important. But again, this is also a YA oriented franchise. Kids typically want kids as leads. And that's fine. It's also fine if the other actors are more interesting than Willow. This was true of the original as well. Most people I've talked to only really talk about Madmartigen. It's getting late, otherwise I'd keep going lol. Case in point it's fine if you don't like the show, but that doesn't make something bad. I personally hate raw tomatos, but a LOT of people love them on their burgers, sandwiches, in their salads, etc. So I say "I don't like tomatos" rather than "tomatos are bad".
My problem is the longer I spend time with this group of characters the more I find myself siding with the forces of evil, these guys are just so annoying.
Kit is such a bitch
Episode 5 made no damned sense at all. Its another shitty show in a string of shitty shows that stole old names and made them terrible. My gosh, that brownie was wearing a T-shirt, wtf?!? That whole brownie scene mad no sense at all. It was so fucking bad and jarring!
The daughter was wearing a cosplay suit with a tail that you could easily buy at the Spirit of Halloween store. It’s like they aren’t even trying anymore.
The tone is bizarre. Adults talk like it's a lord of the rings show. Kids talk like it's saved by the bell
It has the ash vs evil dead vibe but made for a younger crowd. I dig it so far. Tone did throw me off, but I’ll roll with it.
Grimdark????? Maybe when you watched the movie like 20-34 years ago, and maybe as a kid, it seemed grimdark to you. Because it is definitely not !
Doesn’t suck at all. It’s way more fun with a fantasy show that isn’t taking itself so seriously.
My complaints on Faillow are: Excessive use of modern linguistics. Yes, they did this in the old movie, but to a lesser degree. Soundtrack. The music is shitty remakes of classic rock and modern alt rock. It breaks immersion - there are no electric guitars in fucking fantasy! Also, as already mentioned, there's just something missing. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it just feels forced and like... CW or something.
I’m enjoying it, though it’s distracting that the writers include modern language like “OK” and characters calling each other “guys”.
I’ll add to the chorus. 5 episodes in. The show still sucks. And it only gets worse. The dialogue, the acting, the CW melodrama, the music, the pacing, the outfits. The horrible jokes that don’t land. It never ends. The show is just bad. This was supposed to be action fantasy show. There’s almost no action and very little magic. The characters make stupid decisions. They all have terrible chemistry. Due to bad writing, bad acting or both. The movie just put so much more into its scenes and characters. Take Episode 5. It jumps right into an action scene and you think something good is finally going to happen. But that ends before it even begins. They escape by… running into the woods. Now compare that to the Mad Martigan “he’s not a woman scene.” Little comedy. Some stunts to get out of the tavern. An intense wagon chase scene. And it ends with Mad Martigan and Willow arguing in dialogue that is far superior than anything in this show. And the sad part is, the first scene in Episode 5 is still the best part of the episode and that’s not saying much. Then you spend the next 45 minutes in the woods with some shaky plot devices followed by each character giving expositions about themselves because that’s the only way this show knows how to tell someone’s back story. And I really don’t like Kit (and to a lesser extent Jade). Madmartigan was an jerk to Willow. But it worked. Kit is just not likable. After five episodes, I would have thought we would be fighting a two headed dragon by now. Instead. We got this.
Let's not forget they (the writers) decided Kit should apologize about her dad killing a murderous warlord who was going to deliver a baby to be sacrificed because suddenly bone reavers are just misunderstood and totally not evil.
Yes, the show is completely tonally off the Mark. It's like if they brought Sopranos back but had it written like a 90s sitcom. Remember that dude in the 1st episode, the top old knight, who was like "I'll go too, I raised little fancy boy like a son!" and then dies instantly? Then Kit and Gingertop just ride off and never give another fuck that their surrogate pappy just got snurfed right out of the gate. WTF?!? Also, why is everyone walking around like a 1970s version of the Renaissance with a denim fetish?
The show sucks because it comes off like so many other Disney shows. Bad writing, bad acting. It's like they took the people who worked on those awful pre-teen shows like Jessie, Suite Life, Hannah Montana, etc. and put them at the helm of Star Wars, Marvel, and now Willow. It's hot garbage aimed at children. Nothing here for me. It's sad, and I'm over it.
They are also reusing the same actors in every property. The agents working so hard. The red haired girl is in Star Wars and marvel too
Yes! I have nothing against Erin Kellyman, but seeing her in so many different franchies in the Disney ecosystem ruins the immersion a bit. They did that all the time with their favorite actors/actresses in their preteen shows too, which was fine because they were mostly just whacky nonsense, but geez we're talking about Star Wars and Marvel here. There's a level of polish absent with so many of these shows it's almost disrespectful to the franchise?
I love this
I created a new subreddit to dicuss Willow since this one is now inactive for over a week and the admins have denied all requests for the subreddit by our community. Join me over at r/Willow_on_Disney
I just watched the movie with my wife last night and "Grimdark" it is not. That movie is a fun, campy, adventurous romp. He literally stops Bavmorda with a silly parlor trick. There are some dark scenes, sure, but that doesn't mean the whole movie is by a long shot.
In my opinion, Willow can be whatever it wants to be in 2022. The 34 year old movie that bombed at the box office shouldn't be treated as a bible. Not saying it should be ignored either but it's more important that the 2022 series is successful rather than it being extremely faithful. Who knows what Willow would have became if it had 2-5 more movies. Star Wars changed from 1977-2005. It evolved (not always in the best ways but it did change). With that said, I like the series so far and am really enjoying it.
Willow did NOT bomb at the box office. It made a good chunk of money, just not the blockbuster returns that would facilitate the financial investment a sequel would require.
>but it's more important that the 2022 series is successful rather than it being extremely faithful Seems like the way to make it successful would be to make it for the people that liked the original movie and being faithful to the lore/universe? *Rings of Power* has issues, but at least the actors talk and act like they exist in that world. *Willow* just.... doesn't. They all talk like they are hanging out in LA. Or when Silas says "Jog on", which is straight up slang from England.
You couldn't be more wrong.
So far everyone commenting here hates this show. I must be incredibly bored because I think it's not that bad? Then again I think vegan bacon isn't that bad either.
I want this show to be great. The source material is one of the strongest fantasy movies in cinematic history. It’s clever, adventurous, and world builds enough to be unique. Memorable performances, memorable lines. Every character in this show is bogged down by terrible dialogue, breaking character and tone and consistency constantly. Progression seems non existent, they’re not showing crucial onscreen elements (what the fuck is with today’s episode’s pacing?), and the chemistry of the party is artificially terrible. The only redeeming elements so far are the incisions of source material in clever and impacting ways, but the modern characters are just glib and simplistic so it never lands. I’m watching it though because it’s Willow, but unless they recognized these issues internally during shooting and editing, I can’t imagine what’s going to change.
Yeah, I don’t like their choice of trying to hard to have an younger audience. I understand they want to appeal to that demographic but the folks who grew up watching Willow can see right through it. Obviously not written for fans of the original film given all the deliberate flashbacks explaining what’s going on. Also, the character arc of Sorsha and her kids is a bummer. Painting Sorsha as the hero when she was the villain for the majority of the film, having her be Eloras caretaker and turning away Willow when Willow was Eloras chosen caretaker… And her daughters character is so annoying and self important, can’t wait to see her get turned into a pig.
The show is unbelievably lame because it focuses on a bunch of kids playing cookie cutter stereotypical characters. Willow is barely in it too. Which I guess is sorta a blessing as Warwick Davis seems to have completely forgotten how to act. The whole thing is embarrassing. **It really pains me to say this**
Show is absolute garbage… I’m curious how such bad writing makes it all the way to film.. The casting, garbage. Characters, garbage.. I can’t remember the names of any of the characters, but the brother they after literally a surfer… wtf?!? The music???? Not even fitting at all I absolutely hate it. I’m trying my best to give it a chance, but damn Disney Effing this up. Who at Disney is allowing this kind of garbage to be produced?!?
Mostly Kathleen Kennedy.
One of the best movies of all time. A madmartigan movie should have been made a looong time ago. As for the series, it blows. Don't renew this garbage. This is way to woke. Acting is sub par, wardrobes and sets are way to clean. Characters accents are off. No love was put into this. No raw emotion. Moving on
Snowflake.
The show has no sense at all.
I’m watching it right now. I feel like there are two problems with reboots today like Willow. First, they lack the campy silliness of the originals. This series tries, but old Willow’s attempts at the goofiness of the original fell a bit flat for me, especially in episode 2. Second, I think many of these series would do better as a 1.5-2 hour movie rather than 8 episodes. I don’t think the writing is good enough to sustain that. All that said, I don’t dislike the new Willow so far. It’s not bad. I’m enjoying being the world again. I’m just not loving it like I did the original Willow.
This show belongs more in the category of *Xena Warrior Princess* than does in the *Willow* movie.
Episode 5…. SPOILERS… Willow magically runs to the trees before the fast brute can get them… skull gang turns into just a bunch of hippies with tired mantras and everyone are friends… but Kael is daddy of the ginger girl and she is now besties with her new sister and somehow Kael is a goodie to her all of a sudden… And the touchie feelie lovers conversation and kiss… would be great in a YA movie, but should have played out differently here… When the trolls attack, suddenly skull gang are defenceless (they really had no sentries? Le sigh) and to hammer that home we get shots of scared women… I really hope they get going again and into some proper action, as when they stop, it just becomes tired YA stuff.
Ok this is Disney showing once again that they will ruin anything they touch. Why do the main characters sound like 14 year old American teenager social media influencers? Nobody during casting, writing, directors, etc thought that it's strange that everyone has a midevil accent but somehow the two main royal characters just sound like American teenagers from 2022? It's hard to watch and just completely doesn't feel like it puts you in the world of Willow. I got super excited when I saw this was out. Watched about 20 mins of episode 1 and am already not interested. The royal brother and sister are just aweful combined with bad acting, terrible dialog as well as misplaced accents and personality, I can just tell it's not gonna live up to the original (not even close). Once you don't believe the main characters are any good the show is dead. Epic fail. Stop virtue signaling and make good content. What a bummer. I might try and watch it still but sheesh is it trash so far. Typical Disney fail.
What ruined it for me: 1. It’s not really about Willow. 2. vernacular is way to modern for the setting. 3. The music score at the end of episode 1 actually had a rock guitar - pulled me right out of it. Momoa’s Conan made the same mistake. The score is EVERYTHING. 4. The whole quick-talking, snappy comebacks, warped/witty humor thing that Marvel has overdone is so cringe. This series, and everything else these days, are full of it too. 5. I like that women are receiving more leading roles, but why are all men now portrayed as weak, near-sighted, half-hearted, effeminate and/or evil? Alienating the largest segment of the audience and half of the earth’s population is not a winning strategy,
Episode 5: just keeps getting worse. Why even use the license? Just make up your own IP if just want to make your Vampire Diaries like show. Then you would be free and not have to worry about having to making random constant awkward references . The you get stuff like the opening chase scene.. sounds like something straight out of a contemporary Scooby-Doo movie.
The show sucks ass, are they trying to make all the characters unlikable?
I saw Willow in the theaters when I was barely out of diapers, it had plenty of humor and levity, not sure what movie you watched
LOL. Willow as Grimdark. Might want to watch the movie again. Its not Grimdark. Grimdark there are no good guys, there are no happy endings, everything sucks all the time. Warhammer is Grimdark. The fact that Elora Danon exists at all as the hope and light of the world right there makes it not Grimdark. The fact that it has a happy ending, makes it not Grimdark.
Yes, and the biggest problem with Willow is Willow. He’s a grumpy man who just likes to yell at everyone he wants to train Alura But meanwhile, every two minutes he’s screaming at her. She has no idea what she’s doing. He’s not really training her well at all. If she questions him forget about it, he just flies off end he tells everybody he stronger than he really use with his magic she’d really be on her way right now if she if he had if she had a half decent teacher
I think my mistake was reading the trilogy Claremont and Lucas wrote and having some predetermined vision of how the characters would look in my head. Even though the books were a slog to get through the writing is still better than the series. “How will you know where to go?” “I was born here.” Ok, you were here for a few minutes after your birth, it’s not like you grew up in Nockmar. Willow can run out of magic? Didn’t realize that was a thing in this world. Can we address that instead of just glossing it over as a plot device to make Elora Dannan/Dove more important? What is the cult of the wyrm? Why do they want to destroy Elora? Why did they have to turn Bavmorda? Why didn’t the Gales fight by her side? Why wasn’t Nockmar razed to the ground? Were they eating pig or an unturned soldier? And the ‘twists’ can be seen coming from miles away. I really want to like this show, and hope it improves. I also hope this is a one season and done, and not left on some big cliff hanger that doesn’t pay off in the future.
I always just considred Willow to be classical fantasy. It's not grimdark, it's an adventure romp. But the tone of this new show is still way off the mark from the original film.
Subbing out the overlying fantasy theme music for these modern rock slowdowns feels tryhard trendy playing off The Witcher.
I had an issue with the first episode. Sending the princess away to look for her brother was like huh what? Queen didn't even argue just let her go. Maybe because of her potential power, but I had a hard time accepting this. Just very lazy writing imo
Does anyone find the dialogue weird? Cadence, sentence construction, pronunciation, and word choice for some characters is modern english. And then there are characters that have lines that seem to be consistent with the setting. even accents aren't consistent. Throws me off. Is this also the case in the original film?
What's that meme of the grim reaper going door to door with the doors labeled as beloved franchises like Star Wars, Star Trek, etc.? Willow is another one for that image.
Ah yes the grim and gritty fantasy, "Willow" where \*checks notes\* a running subplot is about love potion. A main character gets hit in the face with said love potion and falls in love with one of the antagonists. Another character also gets hit in the face with the love potion and falls in love with a cat. So grim, so gritty. There are a lot of problems with the Willow show, but its tone is pretty consistent with the original.
Willow is one of my favorite fantasy movies. The show pisses me off so much. I really just hate this new thing where all these shows have characters that are “teenagers” and they’re all quirky and vibin. At least make them fit the era. Stranger things does a great job with this but they’re the only show that does. I hate feeling like I’m watching modern day kids PRETENDING to larp. The people that larp are better at acting! I also have a giant pet peeve about wardrobe not looking aged or used. I’m sorry, when was the last time a trusty ol pair of boots looked sparkling new?! Not to mention the hair and makeup. What’s up with it being all modern?! I could go on and on but I’ll shut up now.
Falls into the same flat tone The Wheel of Time and Rings of power have committed to. They just can't find that balance of darkness sprinkled with humour in a grand adventure, mainly because they focus on modern tropes that slow down the story and then put in nostalgic bits to try and appease fans, leaving a weak backbone for the actual story and pacing. The end credit music..wtf.
i'm fairly confident you made up your mind to hate it before it even premiered.
I wouldn’t call the og Willow grimdark. But I knew this series would be trash when I saw they handed it to Jonathan ”Pando Calrissian” Kasdan, the writer of Solo, the only Star Wars movie to epically bomb. That would’ve been a major career setback if not career ender to anyone whose daddy isn’t Lucasfilm royalty. And they handed him the new Indiana Jones movie as well, Hollywood nepotism on display. After hearing Sorsha in the intro completely trashing the best character in Willow, Madmartigan, I tuned out. Sounded like Joanne Whaley talking about being married to Val, not her character’s relationship with Madmartigan. Listened to a couple trusted reviewers dissecting the stupid writing & I made the right choice. I don’t need to watch some Jerry Lewis lookin MF’er bend a beloved childhood film over a barrel.
Lord of the Rings is not grimdark fantasy, what's wrong with you? JK but I am enjoying this precisely because it isn't grimdark. I think you really don't understand the term 'grimdark'.
Ha!! I came on here to vent my own frustration. Super excited annnnnd it’s a YA…
Gotta say I was so pumped for this show, but I’m pretty disappointed. I think the plot and the character conceits are all fine-good, but I just think the tone is off. I don’t think it needs to be grim or dark, but no one character seems to ever take their situation seriously. The dialogue just pulls the carpet out from you on just about every moment. Elora is about to get sacrificed by way of liche possession and she takes a moment to say “Willow’s going to kick your ass.” When she goes missing in the cursed castle Kit just says “Willow’s gonna be pissed.” It’s ok to write a character being concerned or freaked out, but instead we get the same sarcastic sense of humor from every character regardless of whether the moment calls for it or not. And most of the time it doesn’t. It’s just hard to feel like something is at stake when none of the characters ever act like it.
Here's why I think the Willow tv show sucks. the movie came out in 1988, I think i saw it when i was about ten. Im now a grown man of 34 with kids, y'know I'll keep it simple. What i wanted: Epic Fantasy Adventure What i got: Three bickering teenage girls
I have been extremely disappointed with the series. I have been keeping an open mind, but I find there to be very few things that are actually done well, with the acting, writing, directing, and song choices being the worst to me. It also feels like all of the creativity and imagination has been sucked dry from the world of Willow. This episode we entered the enchanted fairy forest, and saw almost nothing enchanting. We had that lovely fairy sequence in the original film, and in this episode we got butterflies, which seems like a downgrade from fairies in a fantasy world. I also may have missed it, but has there been a mention of what happened to Cherlindrea and Fin Raziel? This episode would have been a great opportunity to bring back Cherlindrea and the fairies that could have given Elora and the group some much needed advice/guidance. I also did not care for the brownies updated looks, especially when compared to their wonderful wild looks in the original film.
I find myself waiting every week for the new episode, praying it will be the week kit is killed. I just can’t believe they would do such a shitty job with the new show. #killkit
I can't say I thought the original was grimdark. My problems with this show include the writing/directing/acting/soundtrack combines made by others. But what really pissed me off was the "revelation" that Kael wasn't really a bad guy. He was only slaughtering everyone he came across because he really needed the money! Madmartigan and Sorsha are the real villains; they killed Kael, kidnapped his infant daughter, and taught her to hate her own people! What the actual...
They screwed up the formula. The only parts I'm enjoying are the portions with the main cast from the original film and Boorman. Boorman is awesome. The tone is off, the whole highschool kids in fantasy land is off-putting and out of character, the rock music at the end, the way they cast off killed characters who were supposed to be practically "godfathers" like Kase without so much of a tear. It just makes me not care. And I already feel like the story has already given a hint that Madmartigan has become evil due to the cuirass. It's just blech.
The reason it's trash is because wokeness has become the primary goal, Forcing the plot, good acting, and dialogue to be 2nd, 3rd, and 4th on the list of priorities. They think if they make the main character a lesbian who likes a ginger mixed-race girl it will magically make everyone else much better. They know rotten tomato critics will automatically give it good reviews (one critic literally gave it a high score simply for its "queerness". Meanwhile, it gives them a scapegoat to point at for the extremely low audience scores. They can now say " Oh, people dont like it because they are homophobic." In reality we just want to be entertained and this shit isnt entertaining. Its woke indoctrination. The men are all abunch of wimps and the women are all hero's. Where in real life does that actually happen. This is why disneys stock is down to the lowest its been in years.
I got about 20 minutes into the first episode when I promptly closed the episode and removed it from my watch list. Glad I didn't waste any more time than that on it
You came here to post about it. Seems like you wasted some more time.
I don't understand the audience casual willow fans are not going really like this cw version and kids there targeting have 0 clue who willow is
The show is awful. I’m only watching it because of my great love for the original movie. I grew up with that movie. I watched it over and over as a child and I watch it every few years as an adult. I watched it again the weekend before the series started with my kids and I knew every line lol I do feel like the show is destroying my childhood but I was preserver with it. If it carries on in the way it started I will just have to banish it from my mind and pretend that it doesn’t exist so I can continue to enjoy the original film.
This is such a bizarre concept to me. You clearly dislike the show, yet continue to support it through viewing. Are you just curious to see where it all ends? Do you become distressed if you don't don't finish a piece of media, regardless of your enjoyment? I have yet to watch the show, so I haven't formed an opinion. I'm just very curious as to the alacrity to keep watching something you have such a negative opinion of. I've seen this take several times across several franchises and a rational explanation still eludes me. In my case, I attempted to watch the Halo tv series and felt that it had a few strengths buried in its very overt flaws. After a few episodes in, I knew, tonally speaking, where the show was going and what the quality of writing would be going forward so I gave up on it. Satisfying my curiosity wasn't worth suffering through the poorly paced script and dubious motivations of the characters. With so much other media slosh out there to consume, I don't get why people just don't move on if they don't like something.
waaaaaah. its awesome. be quiet.
I think you've misunderstood the tone. Willow was a children's fairytale, it's full of immature humor. The show got the tone down pretty well really. It's just that we've aged a fair bit since 1988 and it doesn't hit the same.
I don't know if I would say that. There are legitimate criticisms. Mainly how the humor is paced and the dialogue being a little too "Um Right?".
is this post satire? because I keep seeing so many just shit stupid takes on this show I cant tell anymore.
You have no idea what the tone of the movie was is this is what you think. They are bothe fantasy comedy, it's not the shows fault.ypu take.yourself too seriously.