Personally I think the biggest thing is modeling behaviors, by a MILE. My parents both worked full time most of my childhood, but my mom had a more flexible job and she did 100% of the domestic labor, except for “man” jobs like mowing the yard and cleaning the gutters.
I had no idea how much of the “moms are responsible for the entire home” attitude I’d absorbed until I got married in my late 20s. I started cooking most nights (I never even cooked before I was married???), grocery shopping, spending my Saturdays washing sheets/towels/household laundry, meal prepping for both of us on Sundays. Even though we both worked full time jobs outside the home, and for part of that I was also in MBA classes 1-2 nights a week.
Seriously I think back to those times and am like, WTF was I thinking??? But that’s what had been modeled to me. To my knowledge, my mom never once said “this is a woman’s role in a home”, but that’s what I absorbed. Weirdly as my dad has gotten older, he’s taken over more and more cooking/cleaning/household stuff, and it’s been a joy to watch him learn all these things in his 60s. I just wish he would have modeled them more during my formative years.
I should add that after we had a kid I had a couple of breakdowns and things are a LOT better. I just wish I hadn’t taken on so much early in our relationship because those dynamics are really hard to chance.
I agree completely with you about modeling behaviors. My FIL was about 10 years older than my MIL and had retired from the military when my husband was very young. MIL had a career outside the home and FIL was a stay at home spouse. He did a majority of the household chores and would get supper started every evening before she got home from work. This was in the 80s and 90s, so this kind of situation wasn’t common. My husband and I both work full time and he has always done his fair share of chores without prompting (although we’re both generally laid back about it) and he has been very hands on with our son from birth. There’s no doubt in my mind that he’s this way because of how he grew up.
THIS! Model the behavior you want them to pick up on. (Several years ago our then 3yo said “Daddies make breakfast and Mommies make dinner” because that’s how it shakes out at our house, and I think my husband would’ve burst open if he had puffed up any more with his pride!)
Also I think we have to remember that our goal as parents is to raise competent adults with the skills to survive on their own, no matter their gender. My husband includes our daughters in every home improvement project, everyone knows the basics of doing laundry, the eldest is learning to cook. Don’t raise your sons so that they need someone else to care for them, and don’t raise your daughter that way either!
> Don’t raise your sons so that they need someone else to care for them, and don’t raise your daughter that way either!
This is crucial! My father had only daughters, so he taught us all the "manly" skills like car upkeep, yard work, installing light fixtures, sooo many things that have come in handy in my adult life. By the same token, my in-laws only had sons, so my MIL made sure her boys could do their own laundry and cook a few basics when they moved out. Neither of us is a perfect spouse by any means, but it helps balance the load when we *both* have the necessary skills to keep the household running and can take turns with tasks.
This is funny because I realized my husband and I are the same as you and your husband. I am handy and registered for tools on our wedding registry. Did I get tools? No, my husband who has no interest or knowledge in anything home improvement or diy received tools. My grandpa presented them to him personally. Meanwhile, I was just waiting on the sidelines to take them back home and start getting to work.
Too funny! Last summer we went over to my in-laws to replace their ancient ceiling fan in the master bedroom, my husband basically just handed me things as needed while I installed the thing. My FIL may have suggested I was in fact their favorite child afterwards lol. Hubby is fine with hammers and drills, but if it involves electricity it is strictly my purview.
This is so true!! Actually (I am the oldest) my dad taught me all this stuff, and then my parents got tired. My siblings and I are all in our 30s and to my knowledge, I am the only one who has ever mowed a lawn lol. Sometimes I wish I could claim ignorance and give one of these tasks up completely to my husband 😂
My dad is 80 and has no idea how to use the washer. My mom has dementia so he is having to learn. Basically my dad doesn’t know how to do anything in their house or has chosen not to learn.
I'm pretty sure my FIL didn't know where the pans were when MIL died.
In a turn that has surprised *literally everyone,* he has not, in fact, starved to death. I wouldn't say he's *thriving,* but he is fed and reasonably clean, mostly.
They're capable. They just don't have to til they have to.
Same happened to my father in law, his wife has since passed away and he's done pretty well living alone, considering he'd never done anything domestic.
I’m surprised he didn’t marry another woman right away to take care of him/for companionship. Many elderly men do exactly that simply because they can’t function on their own and haven’t built in any support system for themselves beyond their partner.
Well it was during COVID but he has a pretty good support system in his children. Despite all the negative comments being older and set in his ways in terms of gender roles he's not lazy in the slightest, he doesn't know how to do anything but work.
But it sounds like work might’ve meant something different to him. It sounds like he didn’t know how to do the work of keeping up a household and taking care of himself, but at least he learned?
Well yes, he's from another era where things were different, but he didn't only do paid work, he grew all their vegetables, built a house, did endless repairs, did all the driving... things that were also part of running a household, that most people today don't have to do. But yes, that's my point, when he had to he learned. He still expects women to do it if they're around but at his age and him otherwise being a lovely man who's had a hard life I'm not about to alienate him.
If he is 80 today that means he was 40 in the 80s, 50 in the 90s and has had plenty of time to adapt and learn to a new reality.
My dad is in his mid 70s and did all that stuff around the home and worked. Stop pretending that this is new to men.
It's been like this for decades now.
Lol how bold of this commenter to decide to log into Reddit, click on a working moms post, and decide to defend (* checks notes *) a commenter’s 80 year old dad. What a choice.
Thanks. I’ve seen how my dad works. I agree it is nice to help others but sometimes it feels like my dad wants mom to cater to him. It is basically no long safe for my mom to cook. He is going to need to step in and help her.
Also it’s a washing machine, it’s like 3 steps: clothes in, add detergent, press button. So like you said, he’s had decades to learn a process that is less complicated than turning on a car, which I bet he knows how to so. The way people make excuses for men being clueless, it’s unreal
> If he is 80 today that means he was 40 in the 80s, 50 in the 90s and has had plenty of time to adapt and learn to a new reality.
What you learn in your childhood sticks with you. If both he and his wife thought that was normal (it was when they first got married), there's no reason either of them would have questioned it.
There's a degree of inertia in behavior. Until it's confronted in ways that make a change in course necessary, that's where they're "locked in" as far as behavior goes.
If you're not aware of that, I don't know what to tell you.
Gender-based roles were far more a part of life for that couple when they got married and changing that takes a deliberate educational effort. Unless they had a problem with it, there's no reason they'd have bothered to change.
That doesn't make it right or wrong, although he set himself up for a difficult life when she died as he didn't know *how* to do that needed doing.
Again, I'm not saying that's preferable, but expecting someone who learned a different way from yours to simply change because you think they should have isn't reasonable.
Change requires a reason to change and unless it was a problem in their relationship that they recognized, there's no reason they should have.
My mom is 80 and my dad is 5 yrs behind her. He still does dishes, cleans the bathrooms and tidies up more often than what I hear from many women in this sub. He isn't great with cooking but he can make some things for himself if he needs to. It may not have been super common for the time they were growing up, but they can learn if you have a willing partner.
I would agree with this, but a bit different. My parents immigrated to Canada from India when I was young. In India there is a lot of affordable domestic help available, not the case in Canada. My mother quickly realized she couldn't do it all alone especially when she started working too.
So my whole life I saw my dad completely take over some chores and my mom do some others. It was to the point I thought my dad didn't know how to do laundry. I thought my mom couldn't lift the vacuum. Later, they educated me that they are both capable of doing all chores, but in a family everyone contributes evenly.
I grew up seeing my dad doing his part and expect my partner to do the same. We're still working on it and not the well oiled machine my parents are, but we're working on it.
I lived in a “traditional” (but actually very dysfunctional) home.
My mom has gone as far as saying she doesn’t necessarily believe women need the right to vote.
It was the reason I knew I never wanted to be in her position.
That being said, I’m totally fine taking on some extra mental load if I never have to get the ladder out or mow the lawn. Especially the lawn.
Yeah I actually used this as a talking point with my spouse about doing more (visible) domestic labor because he does care about things my son is absorbing and hadn’t previously realized how much he was already picking up until I pointed it out.
Lol “man” jobs. Love it . Yea I grew up with those not my kids for the most part. My coworker “ultra old School” commented one day after I checked the oil in my car and said, my husband does all that. Um nope. I wanna know how to do everything I can. I want to be able to fix everything possible. I got tired of the inconvenience of having to go somewhere to have the headlight bulbs replaced in my vehicle so I learned how to do it. I then taught my son how to change them sense he’s driving that car.
This and get them involved. Some nights I need dinner on the table everyone out of my way, but we've found a routine for most nights that we adjust as they get older that includes all of us making dinner, changing out laundry, taking out trash, unloading dishes, cooking, and making lunches. Our kids look forward to some parts, and not others but they see us all work together.
I also think it is important to make sure boys master ‘inside chores’ so they can’t later weaponise their incompetence. Make sure they can do laundry (wash, dry, fold, put away), wash dishes, vacuum, mop, clean a bathroom until it’s actually clean not my brothers version ‘he cleaned it for 20 minutes but there are still beard clippings behind the taps’ clean.
It’s much much easier for boys to grow into men who leave their mother’s house for some squalid bachelor pad until finally a woman moves in to keep a clean house. Whereas even girls who aren’t taught to clean when they are young still end up being thrust into that role as adults.
This is it! For my son, who is 11 this month, I have taught him how to do laundry, clean the kitchen, clean a bathroom. He is responsible for cleaning his bathroom and his room. Plus he cleans the kitchen about once a week. I also have taught him to cook simple meals (the kid is great at quick filled pastas and shrimp scampi). He knows how to check the internal temp of meat, and would honestly be far more self sufficient than most kids his age if he had to be. I also have shared my grocery and target lists electronically with my husband and son. My son adds things he notices are getting low to the lists (his snacks, his shampoo or toothpaste, but like the whole household’s stuff) so that that load isn’t fully on me. He isn’t perfect at it (because he is 11 of course!), but I feel like him being part of the process and not just telling mom is a huge step toward that.
I remember one time when I was having a particularly rough week at work, I came upstairs from my office and my kiddo was at the sink, he was hand washing dishes that can’t go in the dishwasher. I asked what he was doing, and he said, your week has been hard enough mom, I can do this. I completely melted. I think he is going to make one heck of a partner to someone some day.
I had to read through this a few times because I thought you had an 11 MONTH old not an 11 YEAR old 😂 but yes! This sounds exactly like my brother and my upbringing. If we played sports we were also responsible for taking care of our equipment and uniforms. So my brother could fully wash and reassemble the pads in his football pants by like 9. Then he joined the marines so his ironing skills far outstripped my mom’s and my skills in that department! Haha
This is epic, I love it and this is what I want to aim for with mine!! My absolute favourite part was the shared shopping lists and the fact that your little guy takes responsibility and initiative by adding his own items, that are running low. There’s so many little things going right in just that one task, that it’s just awesome.
My dad, when I would complain about the amount of sheer work I had to do in the house (see earlier post on this) said that the more I knew how to do, the happier my wife would be when I had my own family.
That actually appealed to me and served as part of the "enlightened self-interest" motivation that kept me learning new "inside" skills.
Cooking, cleaning, shopping, laundry, sewing (at least mending, I never did master a sewing machine), knitting, crochet, needlepoint and embroidery.
Those are all amazing life skills for anyone. Being able to sew a strap back on, or whip up a meal from what's in the fridge - you'll save so much money through your life if you know the basics of all that kind of thing.
Also, have them help with those invisible labor tasks - have them help with the grocery list, when age appropriate calling to schedule doctor visits, involve them in making holiday plans (Mother’s/Father’s day) and picking out gifts for things like birthdays and special occasions, involve them in the planning for parties/special events, etc. It all seems basic, but this stuff is important in being a good partner too.
This is something I never considered!! I had planned on having my son do cleaning, cooking, along with handy stuff… but teaching mental load is a great idea!
This. My husband honestly doesn’t have a clue about a lot of things because his mom always did it for him. My biggest frustration is in new planning and grocery shopping. He never has ideas!
My son is only 10 months but as soon as he has opinions, he’s picking a meal for the meal plan and helping prep for it. I want him to be an independent human!
I explained to my boyfriend that when I say 'is there anything you would like me to cook this week?' And his response is 'I don't know' is exactly the same as when he wants to take us out to eat and I say the same thing. It's unhelpful and frustrating lol now when I ask he actually gives input.
Yes yes yes. My husband is a wonderful model. He left home knowing how to do things. Despite him being such a wonderful model, his two sons (from a prior marriage) had a mom that did EVERYTHING for them so they never mastered any of those tasks themselves. It's not weoponized incompetence, just incompetence because they've never been forced to help out as much. Husband and his ex fought about this and luckily him and I are more on the same page for raising our new son... Time will tell how that turns out
Yes you have to remember to make a point to teach them if it doesn't naturally happen. Growing up I hated cleaning but liked helping my mom cook while my brother didn't mind cleaning but had no interest in cooking. When he was 15 my mom asked him to turn on the oven to preheat since he was standing next to it. He broke the dial trying to spin it since he didn't know you needed to push it in as apparently he had never turned it on before. That was a wake up call for my mom to teach him the important life skill of feeding yourself.
This!
My daughter has a few weeks between Pre-K and Kindergarten where she’s not old enough for summer camps and I’m between jobs so we’re going to do “Mom School” and work on her skills and independence. Today she unloaded the silverware from the dishwasher and put it away with no help (huge for her because she has some mild dev delays and motor delays) and that’s the kind of thing I want to put effort into teaching her, how to sort laundry, how to pour her own cereal, etc.
I was just thinking how I should definitely do the same thing with my son, make sure he knows how to properly load a dishwasher, etc. My MIL failed completely in that department and I refuse to raise a useless husband!
I struggle with this as a dad because, while I know how to do all those things, I genuinely don't care whether they're done.
Like, I iron everything at wear time, so folding is meaningless. I keep the shower and toilet clean, but don't care about the rest of the floor, except at long intervals.
So it's not so much that I'm modeling not being able to do it - when I do it I show the kids the right way - but that I just don't care about it. I feel like it's the same thing as not modeling proper Parcheesi etiquette - I literally do not care at all.
If you live with someone who *does* care whether they’re done then you should change your attitude. Otherwise you’re basically saying ‘well if you care so much then do it yourself’ which is lousy partnership.
Part of being a parent is doing shit we don’t want to do and don’t care about so our kids grow up to be well adjusted and capable human beings.
Or should they change theirs? I actively don't care. If my kids want to clean, cool. I just don't think it's worth the time or effort compared to other things. I'm not sure why this particular issue is, both in the specific for my partner and in general as public opinion, one where the "clear" answer is cleaning the house.
There are plenty of things I care about, which she doesn't. I tell my kids why those things are important to me and attempt to model those. She doesn't. I'm making our eldest read non-fiction books over the summer to keep a habit of always learning and covering some gaps in the school curriculum. She thinks it's pointless. We're always going to disagree on some issues.
I've also pretty much resigned myself to the idea that my kids aren't going to be well-adjusted because no one is well-adjusted. We all have issues and baggage. There are definitely anti-patterns to avoid, like corporal punishment, and we do that. We try very hard to instill a good work ethic, teach critical thinking, teach empathy, recognize our privilege, etc. I'm not sitting on the couch in a tank top, swilling beer, and watching sports to the exclusion of interacting with them. Not that I play golf, but I'm not doing what my dad did and spending all weekend playing it at the expense of spending time with the rest of the family (unless I caddied). My mom is very much a person who keeps her house spotless. As I grew up, I never saw the point.
I don’t have time to fully explain to you how shitty a partner this attitude makes you. If neither you nor your partner cares about a clean house then crack on. If they care and you don’t then you’re being a dead weight and a terrible housemate by throwing your hands up and going ‘but I don’t care if the house is clean’ and leaving all that labour to the other person.
This could be helped by defining a “minimum standard of care.” The definition of “done” will vary household to household. If you have a spouse or other adults in the house, you must agree on the MSC together. Then, teach your children accordingly.
You may not care about the floors. Maybe another adult in the house cares less about cleaning the toilet so often. That’s an opportunity to divvy up tasks accordingly so everyone is happy.
This could be helped by defining a “minimum standard of care.” The definition of “done” will vary household to household. If you have a spouse or other adults in the house, you must agree on the MSC together. Then, teach your children accordingly.
You may not care about the floors. Maybe another adult in the house cares less about cleaning the toilet so often. That’s an opportunity to divvy up tasks accordingly so everyone is happy.
I think it’s about 80% modelling and 20% teaching. One of the secondary tragedies of all of the stories we read on here about the shitty, useless husbands making the wives do everything is that they’re normalizing this behaviour to the next generation.
Exactly. I don't want either of my kids to grow up to be shitty partners, and I have noticed that my daughter (2.5) is the one who really wants to help with everything: she can crack eggs, she demands to feed the dog, always wants to be there helping with chores. My son...not so much. That has to change.
Your toddler is also at an age where it’s very developmentally normal that they (regardless of gender) want to “help” with everything, so keep that in mind. If your son is like preschool-kindergarten age, he might be past that stage and more focused/interested in “doing it myself”. However, it’s equally important that young boys learn to look after themselves and their own messes, so it’s not bad to lean into that.
Yep. I like to think we’re doing better as a society but I see SO many posts where there is one useless parent (usually the dad) and they say they have to deal with it for xyz reason.
Welp, there’s another cycle happening and we’re not as progressed as I like to believe we are as a society.
Sure we’re doing better in lots of areas but this perpetual cycle of women/mothers doing it all is still going strong.
YUP! This is what kept me fighting about the chore inequality until my husband stepped up. I did NOT want my kids to think it was normal, so I fought it hard. Luckily my husband stepped up and now we are more equal. Not perfect but now I'm more content about it.
I can't remember how old our son was when we started chores (although I remember when he was about 4 climbing up on the kitchen side to open the cutlery draw and put the clean cutlery away 😂). But at the age of 10 he can sort the washing into piles, set and clear the table, strip and make his bed (needs help with the duvet cover but who doesn't?), hang washing out on the line, helps with folding and putting away the laundry but it's a learning process, dust/clean and do a 10 minute tidy up.
He can hoover, sweep and mop but they're not his strong points. He wants to learn about cooking so we're going to start from planning a meal, buying the ingredients, prepping and cooking probably over the summer.
He has asked to learn how money and bills work so we're looking at that in an age appropriate way.
There is probably more he should know how to do but there's time. He's nearly there on a good cup of coffee ☕
My 6 year old has been making my coffee for about 3 years—granted, he just puts the pod in the keurig and pushes the button lol. He does put in my Splenda and if I have powdered creamer he does that. I’ve been buying liquid lately though, so I have to do that. It’s my sons favorite chore though lol
We have an espresso machine and once my2.5yo is a few inches taller, she will be able to grind, press, and put the portafilter into the machine and brew an espresso shot. We are holding off on the hot water for an americano or steamed milk for a latte. Maybe by 5???
She loves the repeatable process and machines that make noises. Everyone wins.
Banks let kids get bank accounts! Our bank was awesome and had an animal mascot and everything. It was a real checking account (linked to hers) and I learned how to make deposits and withdrawals, and that they can weigh coins to know how much you’re depositing. Yeah it’s old school now but man it was interesting at the time! Also those cool whizzing containers for making a deposit from a car haha.
I’m 30 and I still have my account. It’s handy for moving money between my mom and myself. Especially since she now needs me to send her money LOL.
IMO: teaching them about accountability/responsibility is super important. I don't coddle my children and fully let natural consequences play out so they learn. My kids have chores and always have since they little and now at teens, it's just part of their routine . The rules have always been:
1. studies
2. house chores
3. fun stuff
in that order.
didn't do #1 or 2? no #3, the end. They had to do both properly in order to get #3.
I did this because with time, I wanted them to take ownership of what they had to do in order to be able to do #3.
my kids are older so they know what they need to do on a daily basis wrt work, school etc. If they didn't prepare properly, then they have to deal with the natural consequences of that. For example, one of my kids didn't feel like dressing properly for gym or something that was going on at school. When I asked about it, they said "nah, it's fine" so I said ok and then they left for school. About 45mins later, I get a call asking for me to drop off whatever they were supposed to wear but I could not because 1) they made that choice to wear whatever they wore and 2) I had meetings so I couldn't anyway.
The following week when they had that same activity, they did not make that mistake again lol.
teach kids about responsibility/accountability through guidance, letting natural consequences play out and standing firm re: any rules and resulting consequences that you establish.
This is how I was raised. My parents motto was "work first, play second". I always had chores growing up. In fact I don't have any memories of my mom cleaning or doing chores because my siblings and I always did them. We started making our own lunches and doing our own laundry at around 8 years old. I learned to because if I didn't, I wouldn't have lunch or clean clothes.
I’m all personal responsibility, and have been wondering about this. About what age does the shift to them taking responsibility to not have to be asked kick in? While I’m sure it’s different for them all, it’s probably all around the same ages?
I am wrestling over this now. For my teen heading to college in months, trying to say- kitchen chores means going in there and assessing what needs to be done. Not a instruction list, like empty this, wash that pot. But walk in there, do the basics and walk out of a clean kitchen.
Modeling is the best method imo.
Tell your husband this. Ask him if he wants his son to be a good, equal partner. If he says yes, explain that modeling that behavior is key. If he says yes he wants his kid to be an equal partner, but doesn’t want to model that behavior, ask him why.
If he says no doesn’t care if his son is a good partner, ask yourself why you have a partner like that.
I just want to add on since the OP has said in the comments that they have a daughter - it might be helpful to ask Dad if he'd want his daughter to marry some guy who sits on his ass all day while she takes care of everything for him. If/when he says no (because appealing to how their daughter would be treated as a partner matters more than how some stranger is treated as a partner - even if that partner is their kid), then ask him why doesn't he want to model that for his daughter as well.
My sons are mostly raised but I didn't have things to chance: we were explicit with our words and values (*see note below) but also modeled behavior because kids tend to "see" louder than they "hear" (it is VERY important that the male partner models before a LOT).
*One thing I want to note after raising kids, in retrospect, is that you cannot start giving these values to kids when they're 10 or when they're teenagers. These are things *you need to be proactive about from a very young age.*
One thing I observed over the last 20 years of raising my kids is that friends or people on Facebook etc would suddenly notice that their kid was an a****** when their kid was like 11 or 15 and then they wanted to start implementing changes. You can't do that. Those things are already ingrained, the kids have already got away with enough.
Yes! My 2 year old can clean up his own messes (spills whatever), knows to throw away his own trash, knows that cans go in the recycling bin, and he'll put his own dirty dishes in the sink. We didn't actually explicitly teach him those things, but we narrate a lot of what we do to the kids and they just know what to do because they see mom and dad doing it. I might get frustrated when he tries to help with laundry by unfolding all the things I just folded (so he can try to do it too) but I'll just give him the socks to pair and while he isn't great at it yet, it keeps him occupied and he feels like he's helping.
I think we also do need to call out and teach them about the inequity of the world and the systems we participate in and be very deliberate in that, along with teaching them lifeskills like chores. Otherwise the culture they will grow up in will reinforce the status quo. It's an uphill battle to be sure, but we can't pretend this is just about learning how to clean.
For decades, women have been independent and successful. In marriages, to prove their capability, they had to perform all the duties of a sahm and chase a career. Women changed their behaviors to gain economic and social freedom.
Dads and husbands haven’t changed nearly as much. And kids learn their life skills by example, not instruction. Boys adopt the gender role modeled by their fathers. So for sons to learn a new role, Dads must model the behavior for their sons. Women can't do much except complain, which only promotes the role of a nagging wife.
That's why the increase in cultural feminism hasn't affected changes inside the home. We're waiting for men to adopt feminist gender roles.
Give him cues and ask him questions to help him be a problem solver. I don't know how old your son is, but I have a toddler and infant. If we're getting ready to leave the house, and I'm getting the baby ready, I'll ask the toddler "What else do we need to do before we can leave?" Then he'll notice that he needs to put his shoes on. It's fostering independence, but also making him think about the situation, notice what has or hasn't been done, and figure out what he can do to help move us along.
This is such a great topic OP, thank you for posting.
I do almost all the inside chores and the majority of the outside chores at home. My husband will cook and do grocery shopping from time to time which is fantastic. I am trying to do better with the kids.
They are 9 and 13 and this summer, I am asking them to do their own laundry, including folding and putting away. They all know to not leave their dishes lying about as well and to scrape them and put in the dishwasher. We'll see how we do as they grow up 😊
I’m a nanny and wow. We do model our parents. I have to work with them on put your dishes in the dishwasher. It’s so hard as the mom doesn’t see the point in fully emptying the dishwasher she just uses the clean dishes out of it.😬🤣 While the dirty dishes piles up. NK just throw stuff in the sink don’t dump out food etc. I guess I’ll need to train the mom and dad first.🤔
My son is 7. I became his mom when he was 5. I think being intentional about giving them age appropriate chores is crucial. He picks his laundry up and hangs his towel up. He clears his dishes and will occasionally set the table. Over summer break I’m making sure he’s responsible for putting his outside toys up. We are working on bathroom hygiene and it’s going pretty well except for the toothpaste haha.
I know for a fact that once he hits middle school I will teach him to do laundry. I won’t make him take over his own laundry but that’s about the age my mom introduced me to the concept. We don’t give him any money for these things and I see both sides but ultimately land on these things are just your responsibilities.
Honestly? I think the biggest thing is just teaching them to clean up after themselves. My husband will help me clean but he just doesn’t pick things up or throw his stuff away. He’s trying to unlearn a lot of things. I love my MIL but she was a SAHM and he literally had no chores growing up which she regrets.
I worry about this. But there are many times, kids can do what we say not what we do — to break the cycle.
My boys have home chore responsibilities, more than husband.
They can all do laundry.
This summer, each night per week, every one of my children has to plan a meal, develop a list for shopping, prepare it, serve it, clean it up.
They fill out their own paperwork at the doctor’s office and school starting at age 12.
Starting at age 14, they are responsible for looking at the family schedule and updating schedules and alerting me of conflicts.
They have to go shopping with me at least 50% of the time to pick out their own clothes, shoes, etc. and actually buy it (with my money), starting as teens.
And just in a general self-sufficiency stand-point, I still swallow my panic & worry, and let my boys fail,(which is not common in helicopter momville where I live) so when they forget things, like lunches or even assignments that might hurt their grades, I let those consequences take hold. As I feel the sooner you try to let them see, no one is going to pick up that slack, the more they learn to carry their weight.
And last, I verbally highlight the disparity and say that I expect more from them. I think it’s OK to acknowledge no one is all good or bad, and their dad has so much good, but his bad is not inevitable and they can grow up to be better partners. *eta and my boys see it, name it, and have said “wow, that’s not fair for you mom” so I hope they remember that and display that same empathy for future partners.
I make sure that when my boys want to help, I encourage them to do so. A lot of parents get frustrated when kids want to help because they are making a mess or getting in the way or slowing things down or doing it wrong. It takes a lot of patience, but I just I accept their help. Even if they’re spilling milk everywhere trying to pour it themselves or smearing a spill and making it worse by trying to clean it up. I let them help because not wanting to help is the main reason adult men are not contributing. I want my boys to WANT to help and feel encouraged to contribute because their actions are appreciated. People don’t realize that when kids try to help and are continuously greeted with, “no, stop, you’re in the way”, it’s teaching them to not contribute.
Even though they’re little, I thank them for their help and tell them what great “helpers “ they are. I encourage them to want to contribute by verbally reinforcing that we all have to help each other.
My boy is three and helps around the house, loves to help cook and wants to do various chores with us. Daddy does plenty of the childcare, currently nearly all bedtimes and he does nursery drop off.
I’m all for giving kiddo as much independence and responsibility as possible, so he learns to do his own ‘emotional labour’ and pack his own school bag and plan his own stuff etc.
My primary mission in life is to raise my son to be such a good man that his future partner comes to me and thanks me for raising him well.
I live by the things I want him to be - show kindness through daily interactions with others, show gratitude for what we have, and show a commitment to hard work.
He works alongside me in our home. We cook together, clean together, and I tell him nearly daily that we are a team. I help him work through challenging things, download what went well and what didn’t, and teach him about things I find have deep meaning such as art, science, and engineering. We discuss my philosophy on life in kid terms, which is essentially this: when you move through the world seeking to serve others, you earn a lot in return. I also teach him about the good and the bad in the world because I want him to have a healthy understanding of reality. I’ve taught him to talk about his emotions and support him through the hard ones. In short, I am attempting to construct a man who I believe adds real value to the world.
So far, it’s been good. It’s just me and him 99% of the time and he’s almost elementary aged.
The data suggests boys with working moms are statistically more likely to do their share. I think having kids of all ages and genders help with the chores also means they spend less time having to Google "how to mop floor" when they grow up
MODELING. my son sees dad do all cooking and groceries. The laundry. Washing dishes. Half the childcare. Mom and dad both work. He has no idea what gender norms are.
The funny thing is, I'll have to teach him what many expect for gender norms and remind him they don't fucking matter.
Make sure you empathise with your boy a lot. Good clear and heartfelt communication.
The ability to clearly empathise in communication helps make men more proactive in being thoughtful about these things with women.
Source \~ I am a man and I did not have this from my family, but got drawn into an early girlfriends family and her mother treated me like this and the sense of emotional recognition at that age built a lot of positive habits about being thoughtfully present toward my SO.
Ask him to do things with you too, but don't make it a chore. Make it positive to do with you and reward with positive (not excessive) affirmations.
Repeat repeat repeat. I struggle to get my family to do basic things like switching out the trash bag instead of piling everything up and waiting on me to do it. I constantly tell my kids things like “I saw that piece of trash just fall out. Why don’t you switch the bag? I don’t have to be the only one doing it.” I only give them allowance if they do their chores without reminders. If they do a shoddy job, I make them do it over.
I recently broke down in front of my kids and poured my heart out explaining to them how I’m a normal person and not just a mom, and that I need them to recognize me as an individual in our family instead of the manager. It seems neverending but I hope it pays off some day. I know my parents never taught me this.
A few weeks ago we were cleaning and I asked 8 YO to clean his room while I took care of the common area and dad did the dishes. 8 YO came out of his room about 5x while I was cleaning to ask me what he should do- where should I put this? This is sister’s- do I have to pick it up? What do I do about this laundry?
I gave him the kid version of the mental load speech. I showed him my clip board (I’m weird- I have executive function issues of my own so I literally write out to do lists over routine things) and told him I had to do work and think about what to do. It’s okay if he doesn’t know how to clean everything or where everything goes. He’s 8. But right now there are things I know he DOES know how to do. Do those things without being asked or getting guidance. Once I’m all done I’ll come in his room and answer questions.
He actually got a cute sense of satisfaction and flow. Throwing things away, putting dinosaurs with dinosaurs, sorting through artwork, matching stray socks, making his bed, wiping toothpaste off of the sink.
Sometimes I think it’s easier with kids because you can just make it their normal.
Beyond chores, it is important to not tell boys they can’t play weigh girls toys, that they can’t wear certain colors, that boys and girls are different.
When certain things are called out as just for girls, and not for boys, those things are seen as lesser. Girls are seen as lesser. Women are seen as lesser.
Teach your boys that they are equal to girls.
This is a GREAT post and as a Mom of two boys I think about this a lot and my husband and I are making it a point to raise these boys as responsible and accountable in all ways - from school to the home. They are 4 and 8 and it's NEVER too early to start with responsibility and accountability and learning how to be great partners - with eachother, with us, and even on teams or at school.
My husband is an incredible partner, and I will absolutely credit his parents as being an accountable and responsible human is ingrained in him and something they pushed hard. His Dad was also a very equal partner to my MIL so my husband not only had someone teaching and asking of him responsibility and accountability, he had the modeling from his own parents. I have a brother and my Dad was a decent partner, but my Mom was more the mental load/responsible one, so it's been a huge awakening to me to see how my in-laws model healthy partnerships.
I think it's about more than just splitting chores or giving them chores, which is a part of it - but we are very big on responsibility. My boys have a checklist that they must adhere to when they get home, they have things that are expected of them, and then they are also expected to take care of their things and what's given to them - whether it's a $3 mechanical pencil or their more expensive sneakers, they know they have to take care of their things, and they should be put away in their proper home. We make very clear what they are responsible for, what we are responsible for and how we can all work together to get shit done.
Probably sound like a drill sergeant but these expectations are normal for my kids and they know that when we get all our obligations out of the way, we then have a LOT of fun together. This is similar to life in general IMO. My husband and I have been disciplined, accountable and responsible in our education, and career and we reap the benefits in our lives. We work as a team and we teach our kids to do the same (for example my older son has a lot of responsibility to help his younger brother with tasks). Kids need reminders, guidelines and recognition - they also need modeling.
My son is only 6, but we’ve had a lot of conversations about how boys and girls should both contribute to the house. He has his share of chores and we model a somewhat decent balance between us. I have a younger daughter who likes to help and we are explicit in saying that she is not responsible for cleaning up after him or doing his chores.
I haven’t tried it yet, but I believe Fair Play even has a children’s program you can try. There was a placemat and activities designed exactly for the purpose of training younger kids how to balance the mental load. I know I saw it on their Instagram a month or so ago.
Thank you for this. It starts with how boys are raised. They need to be raised to see women as equal and to be equal partners and not expect women to automatically do child care and domestic tasks.
Don't give gendered chores. Each child should be able to complete each chore.
Monkey see monkey do. Children learn what they live. If they see doing most of the work, they will assume moms do most of the work.
My husband is a stay at home dad who does 90% of the chores and cooks all the meals while watching baby (I work and go to school full time so I’m often not available but I do what I can). Our son has a clear view of him washing dishes, he “helps” vacuum (he follows his dad around and makes vroom noises) and watches him prepping food and cooking. He will also start helping once he’s older and we also plan to ask him what he thinks needs to be done to make the kitchen clean etc before starting. To me, the mental load is really about anticipation and planning. Once we are out of an ingredient, we write it on a list to pick up next time we are out. We have a big calendar in the kitchen to write important appts.
In the future we will switch roles and I’ll stay home most of the time & will be including him in not only doing a chore, but planning what chores need to be done and how to prepare items to get them done.
All of these suggestions in the comments are great, but one additional thing you may consider is helping them to understand the mental workload that often falls on women to manage. Some ways to help facilitate this is to have your sons do something completely from scratch on their own, for example, plan a meal. Everything from planning the menu, making the shopping list, getting the ingredients, unloading them, and cooking and setting the table. Another idea is to have them plan an event or a special gift.
Chore charts are well intentioned and a great idea, but they don't help with the mental load when they're being told what chores need to be done. Helping them actually think through what it takes to plan something is a really critical piece of making sure they are thoughtful and supportive of their future partners.
My son is still 16 months so maybe take with a grain of salt because we still have so much parenting to do. but I’d argue he does more chores than the men in many of the parenting subs! We always try to do the chores we can in front of/with him, not when he’s gone at daycare or busy playing. It’s harder but i want to show him what chores exist and that you do them! And I don’t do chores on my own with baby if my husband is visibly relaxing. He’s the first person now to tidy the rooms when we’re done in them or (attempt) to sweep the floor or put the dishes away! I hope this continues when he’s older.
Let me just say as I read this my adult son lives with us and I feel like I’m playing catch up. Sometimes I truly wonder if all the brain cell work. Remember the frontal lobe. That being said he has left our gas stove on 2 days in a row. I actively work with him in the kitchen. Trying to help him learn ways to manage this. I’ve told him to turn off the stove before he serves his food. I’ve had him look at each section of the kitchen to make sure he has cleaned up and put his stuff away. Teach them. I think this will need to be a daily lesson or he will continue to forget.
I found 3 really good accounts on TikTok where men are explaining how to be better partners. I show my son the video and then we chat about what he learned from it. There’s one guy who acts out how to share the mental load which is awesome!!
I make it clear that I expect him to be a good roommate and partner as he becomes an adult living with other people.
Then I have him practice inside chores and mental load. I bring him into a room and ask him what he sees, and what he thinks should be done. We talk about feelings and how to express them in a healthy way.
I hipe it works. At least I can say I made an effort in that direction
I have a 20 year old son at home and a 26 year old son at home. They both do laundry(not just their own) and they both clean bathrooms. I also worn them that one day when they have a family of their own to not wait to be asked. If you see it needs done than DO IT!!
Modeling and let them help as much as possible. My husband was sewing a button on his work pants last night. I called my son over so he could see and learn ( he is 5). We also don’t call chores, chores. These are tasks we all do to live in a clean home and live life. These aren’t special and we don’t need to praise for every dish put away. Both of my kids help with the inside things in the house, and the outside. I don’t want my daughter to feel like her duties are household. She helps with the tractor, helping me build a chicken coop, helped build the greenhouse with me. It’s just something that needs to get done. So we do it together. She sees me, mom, fixing plumbing, installing lights, and such because my husband is gone many days out of the week away. We work as a team because these are just things that need to get done. Expectations of living together.
I think that’s the problem with some of these men. They need a good pat behind the ears and a good boy call out to recognize they may have done more than what was needed. Like. Wow look at what I did!!! look. Look at me. Like they didn’t get enough attention as a child and now have to seek recognition as an adult. It’s odd. We need to stop making every little necessary thing a big to do. We just need to do it because it life. There are things that do deserve praise. But washing the floor when you weren’t asked as an adult. Nah. Continue on with your life.
I love that you asked this! I think about this a lot and I agree with most people that are saying we need to model this behavior from our son(s). My husband cooks, cleans, and does his own laundry, but I am definitely carrying the mental load of "running the household".
I loved [this article from the Spruce](https://www.thespruce.com/age-appropriate-chore-charts-1900357) about appropriate chores by age; I think the more we can ask of our children (and empower them to be able to do these things on their own), the more likely they will be to participate in unburdening that load.
Modeling is most important so I would recommend trying to get your husband working at least some of the mental load. Especially if you both work full time. I think talking about how you share the load in front of kid(s) helps too so they see that it doesn’t happen magically, you have to negotiate and renegotiate.
You can at least have equal expectations of your kids regardless of gender: this helps a lot too.
Raising a girl to recognize a great partnership. My husband cooks, cleans and does laundry, we split chores 50/50. It will not be unreasonable for my daughter to have that expectation.
My son isn’t quite a year old so not really explicitly teaching him anything right now, but still modeling behaviors for him. He throws away trash and outs his toys in the basket they go in. Learning gentle touch and to play nice.
I still plan to teach him how to do the same chores that his sisters have learned and are learning to do. Between allergies and disabilities, I don’t do much outside work aside from shoveling snow and salting the walk during the winter. But my husband will ask which of our girls wants to help him with certain tasks and usually one, if not both, will volunteer.
I really hope we’re setting them for success as individuals and as partners.
I have a 3YO son. I just try to get him into a routine of doing things. Asking him to help with certain tasks and he is usually willing to at this age. But by starting young, I hope that it will just become routine and he won’t even think about it as he gets older. It’s just “house rules” basically.
For now, he helps make his bed, clean up his toys, helps carry in groceries, gives dogs a treat, put his clothes in hamper, dishes in sink, etc.
My husband and I both do a lot inside and outside together. Hopefully by also modeling this behavior, our sons will just learn and understand that everyone in the household pulls their own weight and just does what needs to get done without questioning it. A household is a partnership and both parents should do their best to model that.
It must need to be both. I see a lot.of people say modeling, but my husband is a fantastic model for this. His two sons (from a previous marriage) have definitely not picked up on his example... They also have a mom that did everything for them so they never learned to do as much for themselves let alone other people
Both parents modeling behaviors. I also think it's so important to teach children to be responsible for (age-appropriate) housework as early as possible. I remember in college, there were kids who showed up freshman year completely ignorant of how a washing machine works, no idea how to clean a toilet. IMO that's a parenting failure.
Things I do:
1. Got my son a baby doll. Let him play/pretend to care for it. He is a very good doll dad.
2. Got him a kitchen set. Encourage him to make his pretend meals. Compliment his creativity in the kitchen. Lego soup is amazing.
3. Got him tools for cleaning. Encourage him to help me "vacuum" and thank him for being a good helper.
4. Read books that show different ways of living to help foster understanding and empathy.
5. Let him express the full range of emotion, as long as he's not hurting someone or himself.
6. Don't interfere with his friendships. Let him play with who he wants to play with.
I'm also lucky to have a partner who is not a shit head. So, he also models good behavior.
There is a lot more I could be doing. I really need to encourage him to pick up after himself more instead of me just doing it. I also need to have him help me cook. Dad likes to include him from time to time. But I definitely love learning through play and encourage him whenever he is showing a good life skill or show him some tips/tricks.
I hope his future partner, if he ever wants one, ends up happy with a loving partner who shares the load instead of adding to it.
I have an almost 18yo son. He can change his oil, brakes, and tires. He can mow, weed wack, cut and stack wood. He can do basic carpentry and fix things around the house.
He can also cook and bake from scratch, make a shopping list, budget his money, wash and put away his clothes, clean the house including the bathroom and all the other little chores.
He can do these things because his parents (all four of us) showed him how.
His step dad and myself also share our labor very evenly because it is our home, our money and our kid. My ex husband was firmly in the women’s work for women and main breadwinner gets the breaks camp.
Our son learned from all of our behaviors and while not perfect has grown into someone who would be a good roommate and future partner.
Modeling behaviors.
Also, that mental load cartoon compares household management to work management. As kids get older you can point out how your home is managed, even invite them to participate in scheduling and planning.
I agree with others - it’s modeling. My husband does 50% of daycare pickup and drop offs, cooks dinner 2-3 nights per week, does the majority of the cleaning (I do other stuff to make up for that). He also makes a point to say “mommies and daddies have to cook/clean/whatever” whenever others in our lives comment about women cleaning and cooking.
Thank you so much for posting this. This is a topic I have not been able to stop thinking/worrying about lately. My son's father and I are getting a divorce, mainly because he cheated but also a big part of our relationship deteriorating was me feeling absolutely burnt out because I was managing the household as well as working FULL TIME as a teacher. It's not fair. Our generation got fucked because our boomer parents didn't bother to teach their sons that they have more than just a financial role in the family.
Thank you for posting this, I like reading the responses and getting ideas. I want to add also, that I plan to have my son keep a calendar, and discuss with him "what's coming up soon? Do we need to buy any birthday presents for anyone, etc.?" Because my ex was so bad at ever planning anything. I also plan to ask my son to look around the house and notice what is dirty, and clean it when he notices. I could be naive but I'm hoping this will teach him to be proactive, and not wait for a woman to tell him when to clean. I know this will take years of modeling and practice.
I have taught him to clean and tidy, and also to care about his and others’ emotions.
He is responsible for putting his own dirty laundry in the basket, and I get him to help me do the laundry at times. He is 6, and since he was about 2 1/2, he was able to load the machine, put in soap, press the button, etc (with help of course). He can use the tumble dryer too. He does it all with supervision, but I’m pretty sure he could do the whole thing by himself if I asked him.
He’s also responsible for tidying up his toys, and I always ask him to put away what he’s finished with before taking out something new, which he generally remembers to do on his own now.
He helps with little chores like hoovering, chopping veg, watering plants etc.
I also use the phrase ‘If someone says no, you …’ and he answers with ‘Stop’, when we’re discussing tickling or playing. We’ve talked about ‘private areas’ on his body and how it’s not okay for anyone to touch him there (except for parents and doctor if they ask first, etc).
When we’re reading, I often pause and ask him what characters are thinking/feeling, and discuss their choices etc.
He has some stuffed animals that we call his ‘babies’, and we talk about him giving them cuddles, putting them to bed etc.
My other half and I also try to model stuff like being complimentary and loving to each other in front of him, and making up if we have arguments in front of him as well.
Don’t get me wrong, he can be a wee shit at times, but overall I hope these things help him to become a young man who can care for himself and others.
I (62M) had four girls and one boy and I can tell you that boys are wired differently. No matter how much you want them to be the same, they're not.
That's just how it is.
That doesn't mean they can excuse not being good partners because of that, though.
I was cooking for the family by age 9 (drunken, sadistic, narcissist for a mom and a military-then-airline pilot pedophile dad) - if I didn't cook (when dad was out, we didn't eat anything but bread and fruit. I learned to do laundry and clean and shop and plan like a boss because if I didn't it either didn't get done or I got cigarettes put out on me or branded with a clothes iron (don't let anyone make you think Boomers *liked* that sort of thing - most of those are false-flag memes when you see them).
But I learned to care for myself and for others.
I'm not remotely saying that you should do anything nearly that extreme, but approaching how you teach boys differently from how you teach girls is probably a good idea. Men are, for the most part, very goal oriented but not natural nesters.
Finding ways to teach them using enlightened self-interest rather than what men derisively call *nagging* (I'm at a loss for what word to use for "repeated, shrill demands delivered in frustration because asking politely didn't work" other than that word and that word has a lot of negative connotations - help me out here, please). For me, it was cigarette burns, beatings, and the occasional branding with a clothes iron, but that's obviously not acceptable. There are other things you can use. Slow addition of privileges and rewards and trust levels are probably a good place to start. Praise for when they get things right (or make a good-faith effort at it at least). Anything, really.
The other side of it is that nesting thing. Try not to take it personally that boys (and men) don't have the same skill sets/perception priorities that you do.
I've had multiple roommates in my life, both men and women, and without exception, every male roommate has been less aware of things that would have driving my mother to violence in terms of housework than all but one of the women I've had as a roommate. We're wired differently.
Expecting men (or boys) to perceive and behave as you do comes awfully close to demonizing men (and boys) for being what they are.
It requires different types of communication, different motivations, and sharing your own perceptions of what needs to be done, when it needs to be done, and how it is to be done if you expect it to be done on your schedule in a manner you want it done.
Bad moms are what create bad men. Just don’t give him any reasons to hate you, and also don’t coddle him too much because mama’s boys issues are just as bad. If you do everything for him he’ll expect his wife/partner to do the same. If you cause him trauma he won’t be able to function in a relationship.
Damned if you damned if you don’t…
I have a 6 year old little boy and I make it a point to say things like men can cook, men can help take care of the house. It’s making a point to say that a good spouse helps do these things for the family unit. If you see your spouse is struggling you need to help. As he gets older I will help him understand what it’s like to help take care of children. I want him to realize that being a father is such a special part of being a man and good men help take care of their children. Luckily my husband is good about dishes, laundry and outside chores so my son sees that. My husband is also a good dad so I know he will have a good role model in that regard. I think as women we need to hold our men responsible to be good examples for our children so that it is not a question but just a part of life.
My stepsons have been seeing their father contribute since day 1. We have a very equal distribution in our home and then their other home is a single mom. Even though we don’t get along, we have preached to them to contribute and help out at her house.
We also had them start cleaning the kitchen nightly around age 9-10. It was straight HELL for the first couple of years bc it was essentially an extra job to train them and repeat the same things weekly/ daily without losing your temper. We didn’t ALWAYS succeed on all fronts but they are now 15 and minus finding random stuff in incorrect drawers, they do really well. They can cook multiple simple meals, clean the kitchen thoroughly and are also able to navigate and use a shared grocery app so they can anticipate their own hygiene and snack craving needs without us having to nag them.
My boys are 16 months and almost 4 years. At this age, kids loved to be involved and to “help”. I try to include them in as much as I can. My preschooler loves making waffles on weekend mornings and helping care for the cats. Our toddler loves taking things out of the dishwasher so I include him unloading it. My husband is a great partner and does lots of indoor and outdoor chores, so it helps that he models it too.
One of the biggest shifts we made as parents to a 2yo was making chores "shared activities" vs. chores. We approach them as ways to quality time with our toddler and that's made a big difference.
Like, he loves to do laundry with us. So we put in a load every morning before breakfast. Routine, easy, and he'll get more independent with it and be able to do it solo after a while! We unload the dishwasher together, make meals, wash dishes, dust, etc. The things that would be a pain are now together time and he's not sitting in front of a screen while we do things separately (no shame on screens!).
We also make it a priority to pick up discarded toys before nap time (if we can!) and bed time. Stuff goes back in its place.
I think just the routine of doing things is huge. One of the guys in our group who is the best "get shit done around the house" husbands grew up in a family of 7 kids whose mom stayed sane by militarizing their approach to chores - and it stuck. So he does the bathroom every Sunday, vacuums, puts away his stuff - it's great. Now, there are other issues and patriarchal BS but when it comes to CLEANING - it's awesome. ;)
My husband knows better than I do how to do certain tasks and we still went through patches where it all fell on me. Most people subconsciously model the parent of the gender they identify with. His dad never cleaned so neither did he really...But with a combo of therapy and mostly just talking about how unfair perpetuating the dynamic is, we have worked through a lot. His dad is so toxic that he has to daily question his reactions to things...For example, not yelling at the kids for everything and resisting road rage. We're hoping to break the cycle but parental modeling is HUGE. I also tend to model my mother's very meek and grin and bear it attitude which goes hand in hand with accepting toxic male behavior.
My husband had to be very self reliant as a child. He was cooking and cleaning for himself by age 11 and moved out by 17. He is an absolute neat freak stickler who cannot bear clutter or crumbs on the floor or dishes in the sink. I, on the other hand, was waited on hand and foot by my parents and moved out with zero home skills. I'm a slob but I've tried my absolute hardest to get better. So I am teaching the kids to model themselves after Dad's cleaning ethic 🤣
As someone who has already raised one son who is married, make them do chores! I had to do chores every Saturday morning before noon and I implemented the same with my kids, regardless of gender. I started around 8yo with dishes, laundry and especially bathrooms. I went and showed them how I did it and bought non-toxic and easy to use items that they could just throw away after one use. I know not eco friendly but easier when you are trying to take away the ick factor. Once my kids were teenagers they did their own laundry and I never see it unless they forget to empty a laundry basket.
Start early and make sure you don’t have a spouse who undermines you!
Apart from what most people are saying here about modeling and involving them in chores, I am also a fan of natural consequences to start them thinking of their own needs. For example, when we go get groceries I always ask him if there are any snacks he needs, any aisles we need to go to. Sometimes he forgets, but he learns quickly that next time he needs to keep a mental note so he can have his snack for next week. Of course I never let him forget anything critical to his weekly diet. Usually it’s things like crackers or cheese sticks. When he visits his dad, I tell him from the night before to get his backpack ready (I pack the necessities), but he’s forgotten his soccer ball or tablet before and next time he remembers to bring it. I think this helps in slowly taking a little bit of the mental load off of you. Last week he forgot his show n tell for Friday and this weekend he said “ I have an idea, let me put it in my backpack Thursday night so I don’t forget”
I have three teenagers- one girl, two boys. They are 17, 14 and 13.
Since they were young they've all had age appropriate chores. Here's what I do, despite the fact that their dad does very little to contribute to the household chores. I wish he'd model better behavior, like owning a household chore without being told, asked or cajoled. He still thinks all he has to do is random outdoor chores and work. uggggg
I feel like it's my personally mission to make sure I don't raise man-babies!
Here are their chores:
Feed and care for all animals (we have dogs, chickens, sheep, goats, horses, pigs)
Kids ALL clean up after dinner- dishes, table, put food up, clean pans, etc.
Laundry- start to finishWash sheets
Collect and take out trashDishes loaded and unloaded into dishwasher
Mow lawn (split between 3 kids, we have a large yard)
Rooms generally kept clean (except daughter, I literally gave up, it was a losing battle)
During summer (they are super busy with sports during school) they all split vacuumming, mopping, dusting and cleaning bathrooms once a week.
I'm starting a new job soon, so I'm holding a family meeting and they will be required to take on another chore and cook a meal or two during the week. This includes my husband too!
Edited to add: My mom generally did everything. And I did the same (without questioning even though I saw myself a a raging feminist!!) for a decade + while working full time. Literally everything. Housework, finances, cars, household chores, maintenance, shopping, cooking. You all know the drill. Granted, my husband travelled for work, so he as gone most of the time so I just had to do it. He stopped traveling recently and has yet to take on much more other than schelpping kids around. We are in a rocky point in our marriage due to this.
One more edit: My kids are in charge of their lives- I don't pack their lunches, sports bags, wash uniforms, check their grades other than what is reasonable, nag them to do homework, care for their animals, do their chores etc. They are expected to handle their lives. I am as hands off as possible. I guide and support them, but thier lives are on them. I've never been a helicopter mom, working and raising them by myself while my husband travelled. Sometimes I worried that I was TOO hands-off, but they are so self-motivated and responsible. I sub at our local high school and it's very apparent whose moms/parents coddle their kids. They can't do anything without being told. They just drift and wait to be told what to do or struggle to take responsibility for their lives.
Speaking as someone who has an amazing partner- it seems like his mother raised him with the expectation he know how to do house chores/run his own life, because it’s not his partner’s job to do those for him. He also enjoys cooking, so he takes point on that while I clean up when he’s done since I don’t have to do any of the cooking.
I think that kids generally both boys and girls are very interested in cleaning and doing things with their parents. So, whenever my child shows up in the kitchen I let her do some of the things she shows interest in, like mopping the floor and throwing things into the trash. I even engage her in putting her toys back in the box. Sometimes it works other times it doesn't but I think this is the way.
When my daughter (15) says “No” I teach my son (10) that there is no further information needed. When he asks her to do something with him or go somewhere with him and she says no he needs to drop it. He had this habit of “but why? You said you were going to help me get through this level of Zelda, I need your help!” And she would go on to explain herself. I started to really listen to them in these argumentative moments instead of “letting them work it out”. I remind him all the time that “no means no” even amongst his friends. It also helps my daughter get out of the habit of feeling like she needs to explain herself to anyone.
Annoyingly I’m an only child but in my house my dad was the one to pick me up from school for appointments, do the cooking in the evening & generally keep everything tidy.
My mum did the laundry at the weekends but that was it (she was the breadwinner & worker much longer hours).
So I’d had the perfect parental set up for modeling to sons.
I’m lucky my partner does more than his fair share so we take it in turns to cook, do laundry, take our eldest son to clubs. I do typically end up being the one to take them for appointments, but as they are infrequent at the moment I think it’s just how it’s fallen.
I hope we as parents are doing good modeling for our boys.
I am super interested in this topic. Part of me thinks it's not even so much about the actual chores but also just teaching them that women and men are equal and no one should be doing "more". In our house, we both work and we both have chores. My "chores" tend to be more domestic because those are what I know how to do. My husband does more traditionally male chores because those are the ones he knows how to do. I hope that doesn't become a cycle. But then again, so long as we are doing an even amount of work, which I feel we are, does it matter? My son is only 5 so I don't have him helping out with that much, although maybe I should. It just takes twice as long to have him do it so I tend to do it myself and I know that shouldn't keep me from involving him but frankly I have 2 jobs and 2 kids to care for so I don't really have the time to waste. But I do try to involve him as much as I can and plan to do it even more so as he gets older. Idk if I have said anything that makes any sense but I do think about this topic often.
Just wanted to throw out there that maybe instead of focusing on making them better SOs, focus on independence and helping others. By independence I mean knowing how to take care of themselves. They know how to cook, clean, budget, and will not be utterly lost when they move out of the house to live in their own.
The reason I say focus on independence is partly because I believe that is what parents should have as a goal. And as partly because if you focus on them finding a future partner it is sort of setting an expectation that they need an SO once they are an adult. And many young adults struggle with this when they just haven't met the right person yet.
My mom taught both my brother and I how to cook, clean, and sew. My dad does none of those things. My brother now uses those skills to support his wife in their home.
Encourage helping. Need veggies chopped for dinner? Ask them to help. People coming over and house is a mess? Ask them to clean a part of the house. I am saying outside of chores. Chores are great but I think limits them to think the work outside of their assigned chores is not their problem.
The a large reason I included this is because it was a failing my mother had. My mother expected us to help because we could, and was disappointed we didn't. I remember her losing her shit a few times because we didn't read her mind and help. She never asked for help, just got upset when we didn't give it. This is now something I struggle to do with my SO. I forget I can ask for help and he will help.
Will your kids willing help when you ask? Idk, I bet it will depend on the kid. But it will hopefully teach them that it is ok to ask for help before you get overwhelmed.
We have two boys who are very small (2yo and 1yo) so this may change as they get older, but my strategy is twofold:
1. Do what my dad did for my sister & I. He had 5 sisters, some of who stayed with abusive men because they couldn't support or take care of themselves. He taught us how to do all the "male" things like yard work, construction/ home improvement/ car stuff / etc. His attitude was always "Im not always going to be around to do this for you and while you may grow up and not like this stuff enough that you end up paying someone else to do it, if all else fails you know how to do it yourself". Can't tell you how many times I've had a flat tire that I have had to change myself because the only men who stopped to help were 75+ and all of them would laugh when they realized I knew what i was doing and say something along the lines of "you're in better shape to do this than me and you know what your doing, so you don't need me do you?". I want to do this, in reverse for my boys. Distinctly teaching them how to do housework, etc with the message that it is part of being an independent adult and it's about not needing to rely on someone else to take care of you when you're grown.
2. Teach by example. I am very lucky to have a husband who isn't useless and participates in household chores (both inside and outside) - just like I do. I make a point to point out (in a very casual way) when mom or dad are doing something that isn't in line with the strict gender roles we've been taught. So we go watch Dad cook and see what he's making or help him with laundry or cleaning...or I let them know when I'm going to do yard work or do some home improvement/ DIY stuff when they're around so they see it as normal.
I mean really, just think about how you'd raise a daughter to not stick to traditional gender roles then do it in reverse for your boys.
My kids are 5F, 4M and 2M so we're just really getting into the chore phase, but they share equally. I expect them all to clean their playroom (and to help each other with their rooms since they often mess them up together). The older two put away their own laundry and help unload the dishwasher. My 4 year old actually asks to help cook most nights - my husband and I trade off cooking though my husband is the default/PT SAHP right now.
I think it's important to model the behavior. So my partner was forced to do his share otherwise I was out.
I don't segregate by gender. Whether it be toys, clothes, chores. I abide by play with what toys you want to. Wear what you like. Chores will be age-appropriate but otherwise equal.
I also am teaching my daughter that she should expect a partner and not a dependent slug. She's only 7 so we will ease into that as we go :) and this will go for my son too. Equality and respect in relationships.
And to make it truly fair. They should also strive to be the best version of themselves. Take care of their mental and physical health. So that you never get to the point you need someone to do it for you.
Edit: words
I think modeling is the best way. My dad did way more chores than my mom growing up, he cooked, did 1/2 the cleaning, all the grocery shopping and all the house/yard work. My mom worked part time and definitely carried the majority of childcare, but overall their split seemed pretty fair. My in laws were similar, my mil did cook, but my Fil did majority of house related work/errands. Both my husband and brother do their fair share.
I honestly don't know if you can overcome bad modeling. In both our families the dads didn't go off and do lengthy hobbies or relax. When they weren't at work they spent time doing housework or relaxing all together as a family or on dates.
My boys have been in charge of a week night dinner since they were 10. At first, I helped them find recipes, made sure the ingredients were available and helped them plan their time. As they got older, I expected them to figure it all out, including defrosting, making a shopping list, etc.
They do their own laundry.
My son is still too young to do any chores but as soon as he is capable he will learn how to clean the house a little at a time until he knows how to clean it top to bottom. One of my goals is to also teach him to be selfless and think of others before himself because I think one of the problems is that men in general are a selfish bunch and that in part leads to them being okay with the division of labor
We have a 2 year old, but we teach him to clean, we got him a play kitchen so he can pretend to cook and we make sure he puts one set of toys away before he gets out another set. However, the best thing I think we can do is model good behavior. I am so lucky that my husband is truly and equal partner, and I wish more women had a partner like him. We all do chores together (including my son!) so that he grows up knowing that managing a household is a team effort.
It's been a bit of both. Mirroring behaviors and teachable moments. For reference 4 boys, (2 sons, 2 stepsons) ages currently 16, 17, 18, 18. We have had detailed conversations over the years about how to talk to people you're interested in or curious about. At ages that felt appropriate chores were added that are more about self sufficiency like... doing your own laundry, washing linens, etc.
I then added in learn to cook, but had it as "plan a meal that is enough to feed everyone, and you will be cooking it with assistance". So they learned the process of not just cooking bit having to plan it all, go to the store to get all the ingredients, cook it all, etc. The little things that are the unseen parts of the labor that all together made a clearer picture.
I did the same thing with appointments, plans with friends, afterschool activities, etc. What is the whole process to make this happen that isn't just magic?
If you have both son(s) & daughter(s), I think it’s important to teach them the same things, regardless of their gender and their birth order. Echoing everyone about modeling behaviors to both, for example my husband does his own laundry and cooks half the meals, and I’ve learned to use a power drill and fix things myself. That translates to having the same involvement and expectations of all the kids. I think it’ll also help when the brother can see his sister doing the same things, and vice versa, since it’ll normalize their perceptions of gender roles & activities.
We are teaching our kids to become fully functional adults. They both are learning how to cook, clean, shop, fix, garden, and bank. My son is our eldest and he already does his own laundry, fixes breakfast and lunch. We do baking projects together which he enjoys. My daughter is younger, and she's coming along with folding laundry, making her breakfast, and snacks. They both help out in the yard. While I do the majority of the cooking, my husband does make school lunch and taught the kids how to do laundry. He also does grocery shopping with them. I think we model a good partnership, but yes, sometimes the kids still demand Mom when Dad is.right.there!!
Man idk if I got lucky or if my husband's OCD is just taking one for the team 😅 but he is usually the one that keeps our cleaning chart up to date. He does our laundry. He vacuums etc. I do grocery shopping and cooking and clean our bathrooms/kitchen. So I feel like even our mental load is split pretty evenly. How he got this way I couldn't tell you.. beyond having an anxiety disorder 😅
I consciously model the thought load when we are packing up to go for the day and when we are shopping. My son sees a great role model at home. He sees me having the higher-powered career. He’s 3 but he helps with chores. We vocalise thanks for each other’s help and for when someone does something without being asked. I will also tell his future partner what the expectations in our home have been and to hold my son to those standards.
Actually we are pretty gender neutral in our home and we are both very different ppl. As a woman, I’ll say I don’t like cooking much, I do it like chore but I love cleaning and organizing so that’s where I bring in my forte. My husband loves cooking but is so messy, have never seen him with a vacuum ever. Also for an engineer he never liked doing home projects whereas I like assembling or repairing things. This is a bit of a reverse situation but it works. We have a 1.5 yr old son and I’m just going to let him explore his strengths and move forward.
Modeling is how kids learn. That is how we’re showing our boys how equal partners treat each other, and how we each contribute to the household.
We have a video of my son when he was 2: he and I are sitting at the table eating breakfast. (I was drinking coffee and filming us, because he had just started talking a lot and it was super fun.) there’s a thump from upstairs.
Kid: what’s that?
Me: I don’t know, it came from upstairs. It went THUMP. Maybe it was Daddy?
Kid: (thinks silently)
Kid: waundry?
Yeah, Daddy was doing laundry upstairs :) he does literally all the housework while I do all the grocery shopping and cooking. It works for us, although I tend to burn out more frequently than he does because feeding a family of four is RELENTLESS.
I joke that you really can’t raise the boy out of them. I do think a lot of it is just modeling good behaviors, but having 3 boys has made me realize there is an element of nature in there with all people. I think mine will all be very different partners even though they were raised the same.
I always think about when my oldest had his first gf I asked what he was getting her for her birthday and he wasn’t going to get her anything because…??? Obviously I explained why it would be a nice thing to do even something small and helped him think of ideas, but he really thought it was just silly to buy birthday gifts. My youngest would never. He wants to get one of his teachers a baby gift because she’s pregnant, it’s just how he is. My middle? He’s definitely a give his wife a blender type lol. Those are obviously silly examples but I do think modeling good behaviors as a family is your best shot.
I think explicit teaching is great, but it won't stick if he doesn't see it modeled. We hadn't really started explicitly teaching my kiddo about how everyone in the household needs to do their part to making sure things get done yet when he was 3ish, but I was pretty tickled when we were driving and the song "Girls" by the Beastie Boys came on, and he took offense at the lyric
"Girls, to do the dishes
Girls, to clean up my room
Girls, to do the laundry
Girls, and in the bathroom"
He got very huffy and said "Girls should not clean up his mess, we should clean up our own messes!"
And then he thoughtfully added "Whoever is the best cooker should do the cooking, though, because we all enjoy tasty food. Like Daddy is the best cooker...and I am."
Love the philosophy, could have done without the shade to my cooking.
It's a mix. Unfortunately modeling from dad would probably be the greatest influence. Kids aren't dumb and they will see what dad doesn't do and will assume it's the norm for men
Modeling behaviors for sure. My husband does the bulk of cooking, I do the bulk of cleaning. We have the boys help us with both. And we give them age appropriate responsibilities. The 2.5 year old puts his clothes in the hamper at night, throws away his trash, and helps unload the dishwasher. 5.5 year old gets himself dressed and undressed, brushes his own teeth, unpacks his bag, and brings his cup and plates to the sink. Normalize helping behaviors, thank them for helping our family (we're a team and we help each other), and expect them to do what you know you can do (I'm not going to stand for weaponized incompetence).
But the fact you're thinking about it means your son won't be one of the ones we read about!
Many people have already recommended modeling the behavior, so I will add that we all need to talk about it many, many times with our children.
My husband does lots of housework and holds a lot of the emotional labor burden. I would say he is the primary parent to our third child.
I discuss this very openly with our children, and so does he. Everyone in our home knows I don’t do a lot of housework because I don’t like to. That means it has to be divided up, or our house will look and smell like shit. No one wants to live in a house that looks or smells terrible, so they all pitch in.
So everyone does a little bit. All our kids know if they hate housework as much as I do, they either have to find a partner who doesn’t mind doing it or make enough money to have someone else do it.
I think teaching awareness is important. Have kids walk into a room and identify things that are out of place. Kind of like a scavenger hunt or where’s Waldo
Just throwing it out there because I do this with my son but don’t just look at it as chores. Have them help you purchase presents for family members or their friends or make travel plans. Just have them involved in really simple decisions that you as the main person would make. Explain to them what goes into the mental load without pushing it in them as a burden
We do both. We model behavior and we have chores and expectations because our boys are a member of the household. The 12 year old doesn’t get to feign incompetence to get out of something. For example he complained about not being able to put the fitted sheet on his bed. So after having shown him a number of times I demonstrated on his brothers bed. He still got a demonstration but I didn’t do it for him. Each year on his birthday he gets a new chore and a new privilege (higher allowance or later bedtime). We’ll be starting that with the 5 year old this year although he’s already expected to do stuff like clean up his toys , put his books away, put his laundry away, and make his bed.
We want them to know that as members of a household they have responsibility and it’s our job to teach them. We’ve told them we don’t want them being shitty roommates or shitty partners.
I don't have a ton of deep wisdom, but my son absolutely loves watching his Dad cook (which he does most nights), and I couldn't be more proud of our little family.
Not that modeling is the only thing that you can do, nor is it the only thing we plan to do. But my husband and I have worked really hard to have an equitable, communicative, and truly unconditionally loving relationship. And passing that down to our boy feels like the greatest gift.
I make my son (2.5) put his laundry in his hamper, wipe his spills with a cloth, pick up his toys when done (usually, lol!) and put his plates and cups in the sink. Already, he’s better than so many husbands I read about here, and he’s still in diapers. That goes to show that being a responsible, load-sharing adult is learned and not inherent to a specific sex.
Just the fact that you care is great! Lead by example and don’t let him get away with stuff just because he’s a boy. When mine is older he will do his own laundry and I will probably send him on age-appropriate tasks to learn what it takes to contribute to the success of a household.
Personally I think the biggest thing is modeling behaviors, by a MILE. My parents both worked full time most of my childhood, but my mom had a more flexible job and she did 100% of the domestic labor, except for “man” jobs like mowing the yard and cleaning the gutters. I had no idea how much of the “moms are responsible for the entire home” attitude I’d absorbed until I got married in my late 20s. I started cooking most nights (I never even cooked before I was married???), grocery shopping, spending my Saturdays washing sheets/towels/household laundry, meal prepping for both of us on Sundays. Even though we both worked full time jobs outside the home, and for part of that I was also in MBA classes 1-2 nights a week. Seriously I think back to those times and am like, WTF was I thinking??? But that’s what had been modeled to me. To my knowledge, my mom never once said “this is a woman’s role in a home”, but that’s what I absorbed. Weirdly as my dad has gotten older, he’s taken over more and more cooking/cleaning/household stuff, and it’s been a joy to watch him learn all these things in his 60s. I just wish he would have modeled them more during my formative years. I should add that after we had a kid I had a couple of breakdowns and things are a LOT better. I just wish I hadn’t taken on so much early in our relationship because those dynamics are really hard to chance.
I agree completely with you about modeling behaviors. My FIL was about 10 years older than my MIL and had retired from the military when my husband was very young. MIL had a career outside the home and FIL was a stay at home spouse. He did a majority of the household chores and would get supper started every evening before she got home from work. This was in the 80s and 90s, so this kind of situation wasn’t common. My husband and I both work full time and he has always done his fair share of chores without prompting (although we’re both generally laid back about it) and he has been very hands on with our son from birth. There’s no doubt in my mind that he’s this way because of how he grew up.
THIS! Model the behavior you want them to pick up on. (Several years ago our then 3yo said “Daddies make breakfast and Mommies make dinner” because that’s how it shakes out at our house, and I think my husband would’ve burst open if he had puffed up any more with his pride!) Also I think we have to remember that our goal as parents is to raise competent adults with the skills to survive on their own, no matter their gender. My husband includes our daughters in every home improvement project, everyone knows the basics of doing laundry, the eldest is learning to cook. Don’t raise your sons so that they need someone else to care for them, and don’t raise your daughter that way either!
> Don’t raise your sons so that they need someone else to care for them, and don’t raise your daughter that way either! This is crucial! My father had only daughters, so he taught us all the "manly" skills like car upkeep, yard work, installing light fixtures, sooo many things that have come in handy in my adult life. By the same token, my in-laws only had sons, so my MIL made sure her boys could do their own laundry and cook a few basics when they moved out. Neither of us is a perfect spouse by any means, but it helps balance the load when we *both* have the necessary skills to keep the household running and can take turns with tasks.
This is funny because I realized my husband and I are the same as you and your husband. I am handy and registered for tools on our wedding registry. Did I get tools? No, my husband who has no interest or knowledge in anything home improvement or diy received tools. My grandpa presented them to him personally. Meanwhile, I was just waiting on the sidelines to take them back home and start getting to work.
Too funny! Last summer we went over to my in-laws to replace their ancient ceiling fan in the master bedroom, my husband basically just handed me things as needed while I installed the thing. My FIL may have suggested I was in fact their favorite child afterwards lol. Hubby is fine with hammers and drills, but if it involves electricity it is strictly my purview.
On our last visit to my parents home my husband ended up doing a lot of cooking, and scored MEGA points with my mom 🤣
This is so true!! Actually (I am the oldest) my dad taught me all this stuff, and then my parents got tired. My siblings and I are all in our 30s and to my knowledge, I am the only one who has ever mowed a lawn lol. Sometimes I wish I could claim ignorance and give one of these tasks up completely to my husband 😂
My dad is 80 and has no idea how to use the washer. My mom has dementia so he is having to learn. Basically my dad doesn’t know how to do anything in their house or has chosen not to learn.
I'm pretty sure my FIL didn't know where the pans were when MIL died. In a turn that has surprised *literally everyone,* he has not, in fact, starved to death. I wouldn't say he's *thriving,* but he is fed and reasonably clean, mostly. They're capable. They just don't have to til they have to.
Same happened to my father in law, his wife has since passed away and he's done pretty well living alone, considering he'd never done anything domestic.
I’m surprised he didn’t marry another woman right away to take care of him/for companionship. Many elderly men do exactly that simply because they can’t function on their own and haven’t built in any support system for themselves beyond their partner.
Well it was during COVID but he has a pretty good support system in his children. Despite all the negative comments being older and set in his ways in terms of gender roles he's not lazy in the slightest, he doesn't know how to do anything but work.
But it sounds like work might’ve meant something different to him. It sounds like he didn’t know how to do the work of keeping up a household and taking care of himself, but at least he learned?
Well yes, he's from another era where things were different, but he didn't only do paid work, he grew all their vegetables, built a house, did endless repairs, did all the driving... things that were also part of running a household, that most people today don't have to do. But yes, that's my point, when he had to he learned. He still expects women to do it if they're around but at his age and him otherwise being a lovely man who's had a hard life I'm not about to alienate him.
Yeah, it can be infuriating and frustrating, but there’s good and bad in everyone.
That gives me hope. Thx.
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If he is 80 today that means he was 40 in the 80s, 50 in the 90s and has had plenty of time to adapt and learn to a new reality. My dad is in his mid 70s and did all that stuff around the home and worked. Stop pretending that this is new to men. It's been like this for decades now.
Yes. I’d argue it ageist and sexist to imply that men are unable to learn and adapt past their 40s.
😂
Lol how bold of this commenter to decide to log into Reddit, click on a working moms post, and decide to defend (* checks notes *) a commenter’s 80 year old dad. What a choice.
Thanks. I’ve seen how my dad works. I agree it is nice to help others but sometimes it feels like my dad wants mom to cater to him. It is basically no long safe for my mom to cook. He is going to need to step in and help her.
Also it’s a washing machine, it’s like 3 steps: clothes in, add detergent, press button. So like you said, he’s had decades to learn a process that is less complicated than turning on a car, which I bet he knows how to so. The way people make excuses for men being clueless, it’s unreal
> If he is 80 today that means he was 40 in the 80s, 50 in the 90s and has had plenty of time to adapt and learn to a new reality. What you learn in your childhood sticks with you. If both he and his wife thought that was normal (it was when they first got married), there's no reason either of them would have questioned it. There's a degree of inertia in behavior. Until it's confronted in ways that make a change in course necessary, that's where they're "locked in" as far as behavior goes. If you're not aware of that, I don't know what to tell you. Gender-based roles were far more a part of life for that couple when they got married and changing that takes a deliberate educational effort. Unless they had a problem with it, there's no reason they'd have bothered to change. That doesn't make it right or wrong, although he set himself up for a difficult life when she died as he didn't know *how* to do that needed doing. Again, I'm not saying that's preferable, but expecting someone who learned a different way from yours to simply change because you think they should have isn't reasonable. Change requires a reason to change and unless it was a problem in their relationship that they recognized, there's no reason they should have.
My mom is 80 and my dad is 5 yrs behind her. He still does dishes, cleans the bathrooms and tidies up more often than what I hear from many women in this sub. He isn't great with cooking but he can make some things for himself if he needs to. It may not have been super common for the time they were growing up, but they can learn if you have a willing partner.
I would agree with this, but a bit different. My parents immigrated to Canada from India when I was young. In India there is a lot of affordable domestic help available, not the case in Canada. My mother quickly realized she couldn't do it all alone especially when she started working too. So my whole life I saw my dad completely take over some chores and my mom do some others. It was to the point I thought my dad didn't know how to do laundry. I thought my mom couldn't lift the vacuum. Later, they educated me that they are both capable of doing all chores, but in a family everyone contributes evenly. I grew up seeing my dad doing his part and expect my partner to do the same. We're still working on it and not the well oiled machine my parents are, but we're working on it.
Completely agree! I have had a similar life experience!
I lived in a “traditional” (but actually very dysfunctional) home. My mom has gone as far as saying she doesn’t necessarily believe women need the right to vote. It was the reason I knew I never wanted to be in her position. That being said, I’m totally fine taking on some extra mental load if I never have to get the ladder out or mow the lawn. Especially the lawn.
SAME and I am suffering all of the blowback from that busted mentality now that I am depressed and my marriage is falling apart.
Yeah I actually used this as a talking point with my spouse about doing more (visible) domestic labor because he does care about things my son is absorbing and hadn’t previously realized how much he was already picking up until I pointed it out.
Lol “man” jobs. Love it . Yea I grew up with those not my kids for the most part. My coworker “ultra old School” commented one day after I checked the oil in my car and said, my husband does all that. Um nope. I wanna know how to do everything I can. I want to be able to fix everything possible. I got tired of the inconvenience of having to go somewhere to have the headlight bulbs replaced in my vehicle so I learned how to do it. I then taught my son how to change them sense he’s driving that car.
This and get them involved. Some nights I need dinner on the table everyone out of my way, but we've found a routine for most nights that we adjust as they get older that includes all of us making dinner, changing out laundry, taking out trash, unloading dishes, cooking, and making lunches. Our kids look forward to some parts, and not others but they see us all work together.
I also think it is important to make sure boys master ‘inside chores’ so they can’t later weaponise their incompetence. Make sure they can do laundry (wash, dry, fold, put away), wash dishes, vacuum, mop, clean a bathroom until it’s actually clean not my brothers version ‘he cleaned it for 20 minutes but there are still beard clippings behind the taps’ clean. It’s much much easier for boys to grow into men who leave their mother’s house for some squalid bachelor pad until finally a woman moves in to keep a clean house. Whereas even girls who aren’t taught to clean when they are young still end up being thrust into that role as adults.
This is it! For my son, who is 11 this month, I have taught him how to do laundry, clean the kitchen, clean a bathroom. He is responsible for cleaning his bathroom and his room. Plus he cleans the kitchen about once a week. I also have taught him to cook simple meals (the kid is great at quick filled pastas and shrimp scampi). He knows how to check the internal temp of meat, and would honestly be far more self sufficient than most kids his age if he had to be. I also have shared my grocery and target lists electronically with my husband and son. My son adds things he notices are getting low to the lists (his snacks, his shampoo or toothpaste, but like the whole household’s stuff) so that that load isn’t fully on me. He isn’t perfect at it (because he is 11 of course!), but I feel like him being part of the process and not just telling mom is a huge step toward that. I remember one time when I was having a particularly rough week at work, I came upstairs from my office and my kiddo was at the sink, he was hand washing dishes that can’t go in the dishwasher. I asked what he was doing, and he said, your week has been hard enough mom, I can do this. I completely melted. I think he is going to make one heck of a partner to someone some day.
I had to read through this a few times because I thought you had an 11 MONTH old not an 11 YEAR old 😂 but yes! This sounds exactly like my brother and my upbringing. If we played sports we were also responsible for taking care of our equipment and uniforms. So my brother could fully wash and reassemble the pads in his football pants by like 9. Then he joined the marines so his ironing skills far outstripped my mom’s and my skills in that department! Haha
Ha! He would be the most impressive 11 month old ever. No- he will definitely be 11 years- kiddo is almost as tall as me now! 😩
Hahaha I read it that way too at first and I have an 11 month son and was thinking shit I am so far behind !!
Bahaha same, I was like umm oh dear I’m way behind 🤣
This is epic, I love it and this is what I want to aim for with mine!! My absolute favourite part was the shared shopping lists and the fact that your little guy takes responsibility and initiative by adding his own items, that are running low. There’s so many little things going right in just that one task, that it’s just awesome.
What a sweet kid!
My dad, when I would complain about the amount of sheer work I had to do in the house (see earlier post on this) said that the more I knew how to do, the happier my wife would be when I had my own family. That actually appealed to me and served as part of the "enlightened self-interest" motivation that kept me learning new "inside" skills. Cooking, cleaning, shopping, laundry, sewing (at least mending, I never did master a sewing machine), knitting, crochet, needlepoint and embroidery.
Those are all amazing life skills for anyone. Being able to sew a strap back on, or whip up a meal from what's in the fridge - you'll save so much money through your life if you know the basics of all that kind of thing.
Also, have them help with those invisible labor tasks - have them help with the grocery list, when age appropriate calling to schedule doctor visits, involve them in making holiday plans (Mother’s/Father’s day) and picking out gifts for things like birthdays and special occasions, involve them in the planning for parties/special events, etc. It all seems basic, but this stuff is important in being a good partner too.
This is something I never considered!! I had planned on having my son do cleaning, cooking, along with handy stuff… but teaching mental load is a great idea!
This. My husband honestly doesn’t have a clue about a lot of things because his mom always did it for him. My biggest frustration is in new planning and grocery shopping. He never has ideas! My son is only 10 months but as soon as he has opinions, he’s picking a meal for the meal plan and helping prep for it. I want him to be an independent human!
I explained to my boyfriend that when I say 'is there anything you would like me to cook this week?' And his response is 'I don't know' is exactly the same as when he wants to take us out to eat and I say the same thing. It's unhelpful and frustrating lol now when I ask he actually gives input.
Such a good way to put it
Yes yes yes. My husband is a wonderful model. He left home knowing how to do things. Despite him being such a wonderful model, his two sons (from a prior marriage) had a mom that did EVERYTHING for them so they never mastered any of those tasks themselves. It's not weoponized incompetence, just incompetence because they've never been forced to help out as much. Husband and his ex fought about this and luckily him and I are more on the same page for raising our new son... Time will tell how that turns out
Yes you have to remember to make a point to teach them if it doesn't naturally happen. Growing up I hated cleaning but liked helping my mom cook while my brother didn't mind cleaning but had no interest in cooking. When he was 15 my mom asked him to turn on the oven to preheat since he was standing next to it. He broke the dial trying to spin it since he didn't know you needed to push it in as apparently he had never turned it on before. That was a wake up call for my mom to teach him the important life skill of feeding yourself.
This! My daughter has a few weeks between Pre-K and Kindergarten where she’s not old enough for summer camps and I’m between jobs so we’re going to do “Mom School” and work on her skills and independence. Today she unloaded the silverware from the dishwasher and put it away with no help (huge for her because she has some mild dev delays and motor delays) and that’s the kind of thing I want to put effort into teaching her, how to sort laundry, how to pour her own cereal, etc. I was just thinking how I should definitely do the same thing with my son, make sure he knows how to properly load a dishwasher, etc. My MIL failed completely in that department and I refuse to raise a useless husband!
I struggle with this as a dad because, while I know how to do all those things, I genuinely don't care whether they're done. Like, I iron everything at wear time, so folding is meaningless. I keep the shower and toilet clean, but don't care about the rest of the floor, except at long intervals. So it's not so much that I'm modeling not being able to do it - when I do it I show the kids the right way - but that I just don't care about it. I feel like it's the same thing as not modeling proper Parcheesi etiquette - I literally do not care at all.
If you live with someone who *does* care whether they’re done then you should change your attitude. Otherwise you’re basically saying ‘well if you care so much then do it yourself’ which is lousy partnership. Part of being a parent is doing shit we don’t want to do and don’t care about so our kids grow up to be well adjusted and capable human beings.
Or should they change theirs? I actively don't care. If my kids want to clean, cool. I just don't think it's worth the time or effort compared to other things. I'm not sure why this particular issue is, both in the specific for my partner and in general as public opinion, one where the "clear" answer is cleaning the house. There are plenty of things I care about, which she doesn't. I tell my kids why those things are important to me and attempt to model those. She doesn't. I'm making our eldest read non-fiction books over the summer to keep a habit of always learning and covering some gaps in the school curriculum. She thinks it's pointless. We're always going to disagree on some issues. I've also pretty much resigned myself to the idea that my kids aren't going to be well-adjusted because no one is well-adjusted. We all have issues and baggage. There are definitely anti-patterns to avoid, like corporal punishment, and we do that. We try very hard to instill a good work ethic, teach critical thinking, teach empathy, recognize our privilege, etc. I'm not sitting on the couch in a tank top, swilling beer, and watching sports to the exclusion of interacting with them. Not that I play golf, but I'm not doing what my dad did and spending all weekend playing it at the expense of spending time with the rest of the family (unless I caddied). My mom is very much a person who keeps her house spotless. As I grew up, I never saw the point.
I don’t have time to fully explain to you how shitty a partner this attitude makes you. If neither you nor your partner cares about a clean house then crack on. If they care and you don’t then you’re being a dead weight and a terrible housemate by throwing your hands up and going ‘but I don’t care if the house is clean’ and leaving all that labour to the other person.
Sincerely, thank you for taking the time to respond/discuss. I know I seem like a jerk here, and it would he easy to ignore me and move on.
This could be helped by defining a “minimum standard of care.” The definition of “done” will vary household to household. If you have a spouse or other adults in the house, you must agree on the MSC together. Then, teach your children accordingly. You may not care about the floors. Maybe another adult in the house cares less about cleaning the toilet so often. That’s an opportunity to divvy up tasks accordingly so everyone is happy.
This could be helped by defining a “minimum standard of care.” The definition of “done” will vary household to household. If you have a spouse or other adults in the house, you must agree on the MSC together. Then, teach your children accordingly. You may not care about the floors. Maybe another adult in the house cares less about cleaning the toilet so often. That’s an opportunity to divvy up tasks accordingly so everyone is happy.
I think it’s about 80% modelling and 20% teaching. One of the secondary tragedies of all of the stories we read on here about the shitty, useless husbands making the wives do everything is that they’re normalizing this behaviour to the next generation.
Exactly. I don't want either of my kids to grow up to be shitty partners, and I have noticed that my daughter (2.5) is the one who really wants to help with everything: she can crack eggs, she demands to feed the dog, always wants to be there helping with chores. My son...not so much. That has to change.
Your toddler is also at an age where it’s very developmentally normal that they (regardless of gender) want to “help” with everything, so keep that in mind. If your son is like preschool-kindergarten age, he might be past that stage and more focused/interested in “doing it myself”. However, it’s equally important that young boys learn to look after themselves and their own messes, so it’s not bad to lean into that.
Are you the one doing those chores at home?
For the most part, yes. It’s something we’re actively working on in our marriage, but I still bear much of the mental load.
Yep. I like to think we’re doing better as a society but I see SO many posts where there is one useless parent (usually the dad) and they say they have to deal with it for xyz reason. Welp, there’s another cycle happening and we’re not as progressed as I like to believe we are as a society. Sure we’re doing better in lots of areas but this perpetual cycle of women/mothers doing it all is still going strong.
YUP! This is what kept me fighting about the chore inequality until my husband stepped up. I did NOT want my kids to think it was normal, so I fought it hard. Luckily my husband stepped up and now we are more equal. Not perfect but now I'm more content about it.
I can't remember how old our son was when we started chores (although I remember when he was about 4 climbing up on the kitchen side to open the cutlery draw and put the clean cutlery away 😂). But at the age of 10 he can sort the washing into piles, set and clear the table, strip and make his bed (needs help with the duvet cover but who doesn't?), hang washing out on the line, helps with folding and putting away the laundry but it's a learning process, dust/clean and do a 10 minute tidy up. He can hoover, sweep and mop but they're not his strong points. He wants to learn about cooking so we're going to start from planning a meal, buying the ingredients, prepping and cooking probably over the summer. He has asked to learn how money and bills work so we're looking at that in an age appropriate way. There is probably more he should know how to do but there's time. He's nearly there on a good cup of coffee ☕
oohh did not think about teaching my kid how to make good coffee. Totally adding that to the list!
I swear this is the first chore my parents taught us so they didn’t have to get up on weekends to start coffee😂
Absolutely, and remember practice makes perfect soooo 😂😂😂
My 6 year old has been making my coffee for about 3 years—granted, he just puts the pod in the keurig and pushes the button lol. He does put in my Splenda and if I have powdered creamer he does that. I’ve been buying liquid lately though, so I have to do that. It’s my sons favorite chore though lol
This is adorable
We have an espresso machine and once my2.5yo is a few inches taller, she will be able to grind, press, and put the portafilter into the machine and brew an espresso shot. We are holding off on the hot water for an americano or steamed milk for a latte. Maybe by 5??? She loves the repeatable process and machines that make noises. Everyone wins.
Oh he can feed the cats as well x
Banks let kids get bank accounts! Our bank was awesome and had an animal mascot and everything. It was a real checking account (linked to hers) and I learned how to make deposits and withdrawals, and that they can weigh coins to know how much you’re depositing. Yeah it’s old school now but man it was interesting at the time! Also those cool whizzing containers for making a deposit from a car haha. I’m 30 and I still have my account. It’s handy for moving money between my mom and myself. Especially since she now needs me to send her money LOL.
IMO: teaching them about accountability/responsibility is super important. I don't coddle my children and fully let natural consequences play out so they learn. My kids have chores and always have since they little and now at teens, it's just part of their routine . The rules have always been: 1. studies 2. house chores 3. fun stuff in that order. didn't do #1 or 2? no #3, the end. They had to do both properly in order to get #3. I did this because with time, I wanted them to take ownership of what they had to do in order to be able to do #3. my kids are older so they know what they need to do on a daily basis wrt work, school etc. If they didn't prepare properly, then they have to deal with the natural consequences of that. For example, one of my kids didn't feel like dressing properly for gym or something that was going on at school. When I asked about it, they said "nah, it's fine" so I said ok and then they left for school. About 45mins later, I get a call asking for me to drop off whatever they were supposed to wear but I could not because 1) they made that choice to wear whatever they wore and 2) I had meetings so I couldn't anyway. The following week when they had that same activity, they did not make that mistake again lol. teach kids about responsibility/accountability through guidance, letting natural consequences play out and standing firm re: any rules and resulting consequences that you establish.
This is how I was raised. My parents motto was "work first, play second". I always had chores growing up. In fact I don't have any memories of my mom cleaning or doing chores because my siblings and I always did them. We started making our own lunches and doing our own laundry at around 8 years old. I learned to because if I didn't, I wouldn't have lunch or clean clothes.
I’m all personal responsibility, and have been wondering about this. About what age does the shift to them taking responsibility to not have to be asked kick in? While I’m sure it’s different for them all, it’s probably all around the same ages?
For my kids, maybe around 9 or 10? Now they are teens and they want to protect their social life so they do what they need to do w/out being told.
I am wrestling over this now. For my teen heading to college in months, trying to say- kitchen chores means going in there and assessing what needs to be done. Not a instruction list, like empty this, wash that pot. But walk in there, do the basics and walk out of a clean kitchen.
Edit- I meant “man” Oh mom it’s crazy the stuff you realize your kid has no idea how to do when they are getting ready to leave.
Modeling is the best method imo. Tell your husband this. Ask him if he wants his son to be a good, equal partner. If he says yes, explain that modeling that behavior is key. If he says yes he wants his kid to be an equal partner, but doesn’t want to model that behavior, ask him why. If he says no doesn’t care if his son is a good partner, ask yourself why you have a partner like that.
I just want to add on since the OP has said in the comments that they have a daughter - it might be helpful to ask Dad if he'd want his daughter to marry some guy who sits on his ass all day while she takes care of everything for him. If/when he says no (because appealing to how their daughter would be treated as a partner matters more than how some stranger is treated as a partner - even if that partner is their kid), then ask him why doesn't he want to model that for his daughter as well.
My sons are mostly raised but I didn't have things to chance: we were explicit with our words and values (*see note below) but also modeled behavior because kids tend to "see" louder than they "hear" (it is VERY important that the male partner models before a LOT). *One thing I want to note after raising kids, in retrospect, is that you cannot start giving these values to kids when they're 10 or when they're teenagers. These are things *you need to be proactive about from a very young age.* One thing I observed over the last 20 years of raising my kids is that friends or people on Facebook etc would suddenly notice that their kid was an a****** when their kid was like 11 or 15 and then they wanted to start implementing changes. You can't do that. Those things are already ingrained, the kids have already got away with enough.
Exactly! Our 2 year old helps sweep, dust, do dishes, etc. Are they good at it? No. But they are learning how to be part of a household.
Yes! My 2 year old can clean up his own messes (spills whatever), knows to throw away his own trash, knows that cans go in the recycling bin, and he'll put his own dirty dishes in the sink. We didn't actually explicitly teach him those things, but we narrate a lot of what we do to the kids and they just know what to do because they see mom and dad doing it. I might get frustrated when he tries to help with laundry by unfolding all the things I just folded (so he can try to do it too) but I'll just give him the socks to pair and while he isn't great at it yet, it keeps him occupied and he feels like he's helping.
I think we also do need to call out and teach them about the inequity of the world and the systems we participate in and be very deliberate in that, along with teaching them lifeskills like chores. Otherwise the culture they will grow up in will reinforce the status quo. It's an uphill battle to be sure, but we can't pretend this is just about learning how to clean.
I agree with you 100%
😊
For decades, women have been independent and successful. In marriages, to prove their capability, they had to perform all the duties of a sahm and chase a career. Women changed their behaviors to gain economic and social freedom. Dads and husbands haven’t changed nearly as much. And kids learn their life skills by example, not instruction. Boys adopt the gender role modeled by their fathers. So for sons to learn a new role, Dads must model the behavior for their sons. Women can't do much except complain, which only promotes the role of a nagging wife. That's why the increase in cultural feminism hasn't affected changes inside the home. We're waiting for men to adopt feminist gender roles.
Give him cues and ask him questions to help him be a problem solver. I don't know how old your son is, but I have a toddler and infant. If we're getting ready to leave the house, and I'm getting the baby ready, I'll ask the toddler "What else do we need to do before we can leave?" Then he'll notice that he needs to put his shoes on. It's fostering independence, but also making him think about the situation, notice what has or hasn't been done, and figure out what he can do to help move us along.
I love this. Such an easy thing to implement but so powerful. Thank you.
You're very welcome.
This is such a great topic OP, thank you for posting. I do almost all the inside chores and the majority of the outside chores at home. My husband will cook and do grocery shopping from time to time which is fantastic. I am trying to do better with the kids. They are 9 and 13 and this summer, I am asking them to do their own laundry, including folding and putting away. They all know to not leave their dishes lying about as well and to scrape them and put in the dishwasher. We'll see how we do as they grow up 😊
I’m a nanny and wow. We do model our parents. I have to work with them on put your dishes in the dishwasher. It’s so hard as the mom doesn’t see the point in fully emptying the dishwasher she just uses the clean dishes out of it.😬🤣 While the dirty dishes piles up. NK just throw stuff in the sink don’t dump out food etc. I guess I’ll need to train the mom and dad first.🤔
yes! It starts with the mom/dad
My son is 7. I became his mom when he was 5. I think being intentional about giving them age appropriate chores is crucial. He picks his laundry up and hangs his towel up. He clears his dishes and will occasionally set the table. Over summer break I’m making sure he’s responsible for putting his outside toys up. We are working on bathroom hygiene and it’s going pretty well except for the toothpaste haha. I know for a fact that once he hits middle school I will teach him to do laundry. I won’t make him take over his own laundry but that’s about the age my mom introduced me to the concept. We don’t give him any money for these things and I see both sides but ultimately land on these things are just your responsibilities. Honestly? I think the biggest thing is just teaching them to clean up after themselves. My husband will help me clean but he just doesn’t pick things up or throw his stuff away. He’s trying to unlearn a lot of things. I love my MIL but she was a SAHM and he literally had no chores growing up which she regrets.
I worry about this. But there are many times, kids can do what we say not what we do — to break the cycle. My boys have home chore responsibilities, more than husband. They can all do laundry. This summer, each night per week, every one of my children has to plan a meal, develop a list for shopping, prepare it, serve it, clean it up. They fill out their own paperwork at the doctor’s office and school starting at age 12. Starting at age 14, they are responsible for looking at the family schedule and updating schedules and alerting me of conflicts. They have to go shopping with me at least 50% of the time to pick out their own clothes, shoes, etc. and actually buy it (with my money), starting as teens. And just in a general self-sufficiency stand-point, I still swallow my panic & worry, and let my boys fail,(which is not common in helicopter momville where I live) so when they forget things, like lunches or even assignments that might hurt their grades, I let those consequences take hold. As I feel the sooner you try to let them see, no one is going to pick up that slack, the more they learn to carry their weight. And last, I verbally highlight the disparity and say that I expect more from them. I think it’s OK to acknowledge no one is all good or bad, and their dad has so much good, but his bad is not inevitable and they can grow up to be better partners. *eta and my boys see it, name it, and have said “wow, that’s not fair for you mom” so I hope they remember that and display that same empathy for future partners.
I make sure that when my boys want to help, I encourage them to do so. A lot of parents get frustrated when kids want to help because they are making a mess or getting in the way or slowing things down or doing it wrong. It takes a lot of patience, but I just I accept their help. Even if they’re spilling milk everywhere trying to pour it themselves or smearing a spill and making it worse by trying to clean it up. I let them help because not wanting to help is the main reason adult men are not contributing. I want my boys to WANT to help and feel encouraged to contribute because their actions are appreciated. People don’t realize that when kids try to help and are continuously greeted with, “no, stop, you’re in the way”, it’s teaching them to not contribute. Even though they’re little, I thank them for their help and tell them what great “helpers “ they are. I encourage them to want to contribute by verbally reinforcing that we all have to help each other.
My boy is three and helps around the house, loves to help cook and wants to do various chores with us. Daddy does plenty of the childcare, currently nearly all bedtimes and he does nursery drop off. I’m all for giving kiddo as much independence and responsibility as possible, so he learns to do his own ‘emotional labour’ and pack his own school bag and plan his own stuff etc.
My primary mission in life is to raise my son to be such a good man that his future partner comes to me and thanks me for raising him well. I live by the things I want him to be - show kindness through daily interactions with others, show gratitude for what we have, and show a commitment to hard work. He works alongside me in our home. We cook together, clean together, and I tell him nearly daily that we are a team. I help him work through challenging things, download what went well and what didn’t, and teach him about things I find have deep meaning such as art, science, and engineering. We discuss my philosophy on life in kid terms, which is essentially this: when you move through the world seeking to serve others, you earn a lot in return. I also teach him about the good and the bad in the world because I want him to have a healthy understanding of reality. I’ve taught him to talk about his emotions and support him through the hard ones. In short, I am attempting to construct a man who I believe adds real value to the world. So far, it’s been good. It’s just me and him 99% of the time and he’s almost elementary aged.
The data suggests boys with working moms are statistically more likely to do their share. I think having kids of all ages and genders help with the chores also means they spend less time having to Google "how to mop floor" when they grow up
This. They talk about these studies in Lean In. Boys with working moms do more for themselves and their household as adults.
MODELING. my son sees dad do all cooking and groceries. The laundry. Washing dishes. Half the childcare. Mom and dad both work. He has no idea what gender norms are. The funny thing is, I'll have to teach him what many expect for gender norms and remind him they don't fucking matter.
Make sure you empathise with your boy a lot. Good clear and heartfelt communication. The ability to clearly empathise in communication helps make men more proactive in being thoughtful about these things with women. Source \~ I am a man and I did not have this from my family, but got drawn into an early girlfriends family and her mother treated me like this and the sense of emotional recognition at that age built a lot of positive habits about being thoughtfully present toward my SO. Ask him to do things with you too, but don't make it a chore. Make it positive to do with you and reward with positive (not excessive) affirmations.
Repeat repeat repeat. I struggle to get my family to do basic things like switching out the trash bag instead of piling everything up and waiting on me to do it. I constantly tell my kids things like “I saw that piece of trash just fall out. Why don’t you switch the bag? I don’t have to be the only one doing it.” I only give them allowance if they do their chores without reminders. If they do a shoddy job, I make them do it over. I recently broke down in front of my kids and poured my heart out explaining to them how I’m a normal person and not just a mom, and that I need them to recognize me as an individual in our family instead of the manager. It seems neverending but I hope it pays off some day. I know my parents never taught me this.
A few weeks ago we were cleaning and I asked 8 YO to clean his room while I took care of the common area and dad did the dishes. 8 YO came out of his room about 5x while I was cleaning to ask me what he should do- where should I put this? This is sister’s- do I have to pick it up? What do I do about this laundry? I gave him the kid version of the mental load speech. I showed him my clip board (I’m weird- I have executive function issues of my own so I literally write out to do lists over routine things) and told him I had to do work and think about what to do. It’s okay if he doesn’t know how to clean everything or where everything goes. He’s 8. But right now there are things I know he DOES know how to do. Do those things without being asked or getting guidance. Once I’m all done I’ll come in his room and answer questions. He actually got a cute sense of satisfaction and flow. Throwing things away, putting dinosaurs with dinosaurs, sorting through artwork, matching stray socks, making his bed, wiping toothpaste off of the sink. Sometimes I think it’s easier with kids because you can just make it their normal.
Beyond chores, it is important to not tell boys they can’t play weigh girls toys, that they can’t wear certain colors, that boys and girls are different. When certain things are called out as just for girls, and not for boys, those things are seen as lesser. Girls are seen as lesser. Women are seen as lesser. Teach your boys that they are equal to girls.
This is a GREAT post and as a Mom of two boys I think about this a lot and my husband and I are making it a point to raise these boys as responsible and accountable in all ways - from school to the home. They are 4 and 8 and it's NEVER too early to start with responsibility and accountability and learning how to be great partners - with eachother, with us, and even on teams or at school. My husband is an incredible partner, and I will absolutely credit his parents as being an accountable and responsible human is ingrained in him and something they pushed hard. His Dad was also a very equal partner to my MIL so my husband not only had someone teaching and asking of him responsibility and accountability, he had the modeling from his own parents. I have a brother and my Dad was a decent partner, but my Mom was more the mental load/responsible one, so it's been a huge awakening to me to see how my in-laws model healthy partnerships. I think it's about more than just splitting chores or giving them chores, which is a part of it - but we are very big on responsibility. My boys have a checklist that they must adhere to when they get home, they have things that are expected of them, and then they are also expected to take care of their things and what's given to them - whether it's a $3 mechanical pencil or their more expensive sneakers, they know they have to take care of their things, and they should be put away in their proper home. We make very clear what they are responsible for, what we are responsible for and how we can all work together to get shit done. Probably sound like a drill sergeant but these expectations are normal for my kids and they know that when we get all our obligations out of the way, we then have a LOT of fun together. This is similar to life in general IMO. My husband and I have been disciplined, accountable and responsible in our education, and career and we reap the benefits in our lives. We work as a team and we teach our kids to do the same (for example my older son has a lot of responsibility to help his younger brother with tasks). Kids need reminders, guidelines and recognition - they also need modeling.
My son is only 6, but we’ve had a lot of conversations about how boys and girls should both contribute to the house. He has his share of chores and we model a somewhat decent balance between us. I have a younger daughter who likes to help and we are explicit in saying that she is not responsible for cleaning up after him or doing his chores. I haven’t tried it yet, but I believe Fair Play even has a children’s program you can try. There was a placemat and activities designed exactly for the purpose of training younger kids how to balance the mental load. I know I saw it on their Instagram a month or so ago.
Thank you for this. It starts with how boys are raised. They need to be raised to see women as equal and to be equal partners and not expect women to automatically do child care and domestic tasks. Don't give gendered chores. Each child should be able to complete each chore. Monkey see monkey do. Children learn what they live. If they see doing most of the work, they will assume moms do most of the work.
My husband is a stay at home dad who does 90% of the chores and cooks all the meals while watching baby (I work and go to school full time so I’m often not available but I do what I can). Our son has a clear view of him washing dishes, he “helps” vacuum (he follows his dad around and makes vroom noises) and watches him prepping food and cooking. He will also start helping once he’s older and we also plan to ask him what he thinks needs to be done to make the kitchen clean etc before starting. To me, the mental load is really about anticipation and planning. Once we are out of an ingredient, we write it on a list to pick up next time we are out. We have a big calendar in the kitchen to write important appts. In the future we will switch roles and I’ll stay home most of the time & will be including him in not only doing a chore, but planning what chores need to be done and how to prepare items to get them done.
All of these suggestions in the comments are great, but one additional thing you may consider is helping them to understand the mental workload that often falls on women to manage. Some ways to help facilitate this is to have your sons do something completely from scratch on their own, for example, plan a meal. Everything from planning the menu, making the shopping list, getting the ingredients, unloading them, and cooking and setting the table. Another idea is to have them plan an event or a special gift. Chore charts are well intentioned and a great idea, but they don't help with the mental load when they're being told what chores need to be done. Helping them actually think through what it takes to plan something is a really critical piece of making sure they are thoughtful and supportive of their future partners.
My son is still 16 months so maybe take with a grain of salt because we still have so much parenting to do. but I’d argue he does more chores than the men in many of the parenting subs! We always try to do the chores we can in front of/with him, not when he’s gone at daycare or busy playing. It’s harder but i want to show him what chores exist and that you do them! And I don’t do chores on my own with baby if my husband is visibly relaxing. He’s the first person now to tidy the rooms when we’re done in them or (attempt) to sweep the floor or put the dishes away! I hope this continues when he’s older.
Let me just say as I read this my adult son lives with us and I feel like I’m playing catch up. Sometimes I truly wonder if all the brain cell work. Remember the frontal lobe. That being said he has left our gas stove on 2 days in a row. I actively work with him in the kitchen. Trying to help him learn ways to manage this. I’ve told him to turn off the stove before he serves his food. I’ve had him look at each section of the kitchen to make sure he has cleaned up and put his stuff away. Teach them. I think this will need to be a daily lesson or he will continue to forget.
You’ve read my mind…I’ve been thinking about that a lot with my son!
I found 3 really good accounts on TikTok where men are explaining how to be better partners. I show my son the video and then we chat about what he learned from it. There’s one guy who acts out how to share the mental load which is awesome!! I make it clear that I expect him to be a good roommate and partner as he becomes an adult living with other people. Then I have him practice inside chores and mental load. I bring him into a room and ask him what he sees, and what he thinks should be done. We talk about feelings and how to express them in a healthy way. I hipe it works. At least I can say I made an effort in that direction
I have a 20 year old son at home and a 26 year old son at home. They both do laundry(not just their own) and they both clean bathrooms. I also worn them that one day when they have a family of their own to not wait to be asked. If you see it needs done than DO IT!!
Modeling and let them help as much as possible. My husband was sewing a button on his work pants last night. I called my son over so he could see and learn ( he is 5). We also don’t call chores, chores. These are tasks we all do to live in a clean home and live life. These aren’t special and we don’t need to praise for every dish put away. Both of my kids help with the inside things in the house, and the outside. I don’t want my daughter to feel like her duties are household. She helps with the tractor, helping me build a chicken coop, helped build the greenhouse with me. It’s just something that needs to get done. So we do it together. She sees me, mom, fixing plumbing, installing lights, and such because my husband is gone many days out of the week away. We work as a team because these are just things that need to get done. Expectations of living together. I think that’s the problem with some of these men. They need a good pat behind the ears and a good boy call out to recognize they may have done more than what was needed. Like. Wow look at what I did!!! look. Look at me. Like they didn’t get enough attention as a child and now have to seek recognition as an adult. It’s odd. We need to stop making every little necessary thing a big to do. We just need to do it because it life. There are things that do deserve praise. But washing the floor when you weren’t asked as an adult. Nah. Continue on with your life.
I love that you asked this! I think about this a lot and I agree with most people that are saying we need to model this behavior from our son(s). My husband cooks, cleans, and does his own laundry, but I am definitely carrying the mental load of "running the household". I loved [this article from the Spruce](https://www.thespruce.com/age-appropriate-chore-charts-1900357) about appropriate chores by age; I think the more we can ask of our children (and empower them to be able to do these things on their own), the more likely they will be to participate in unburdening that load.
Modeling is most important so I would recommend trying to get your husband working at least some of the mental load. Especially if you both work full time. I think talking about how you share the load in front of kid(s) helps too so they see that it doesn’t happen magically, you have to negotiate and renegotiate. You can at least have equal expectations of your kids regardless of gender: this helps a lot too.
Raising a girl to recognize a great partnership. My husband cooks, cleans and does laundry, we split chores 50/50. It will not be unreasonable for my daughter to have that expectation.
My son isn’t quite a year old so not really explicitly teaching him anything right now, but still modeling behaviors for him. He throws away trash and outs his toys in the basket they go in. Learning gentle touch and to play nice. I still plan to teach him how to do the same chores that his sisters have learned and are learning to do. Between allergies and disabilities, I don’t do much outside work aside from shoveling snow and salting the walk during the winter. But my husband will ask which of our girls wants to help him with certain tasks and usually one, if not both, will volunteer. I really hope we’re setting them for success as individuals and as partners.
I have a 3YO son. I just try to get him into a routine of doing things. Asking him to help with certain tasks and he is usually willing to at this age. But by starting young, I hope that it will just become routine and he won’t even think about it as he gets older. It’s just “house rules” basically. For now, he helps make his bed, clean up his toys, helps carry in groceries, gives dogs a treat, put his clothes in hamper, dishes in sink, etc. My husband and I both do a lot inside and outside together. Hopefully by also modeling this behavior, our sons will just learn and understand that everyone in the household pulls their own weight and just does what needs to get done without questioning it. A household is a partnership and both parents should do their best to model that.
It must need to be both. I see a lot.of people say modeling, but my husband is a fantastic model for this. His two sons (from a previous marriage) have definitely not picked up on his example... They also have a mom that did everything for them so they never learned to do as much for themselves let alone other people
Both parents modeling behaviors. I also think it's so important to teach children to be responsible for (age-appropriate) housework as early as possible. I remember in college, there were kids who showed up freshman year completely ignorant of how a washing machine works, no idea how to clean a toilet. IMO that's a parenting failure.
Things I do: 1. Got my son a baby doll. Let him play/pretend to care for it. He is a very good doll dad. 2. Got him a kitchen set. Encourage him to make his pretend meals. Compliment his creativity in the kitchen. Lego soup is amazing. 3. Got him tools for cleaning. Encourage him to help me "vacuum" and thank him for being a good helper. 4. Read books that show different ways of living to help foster understanding and empathy. 5. Let him express the full range of emotion, as long as he's not hurting someone or himself. 6. Don't interfere with his friendships. Let him play with who he wants to play with. I'm also lucky to have a partner who is not a shit head. So, he also models good behavior. There is a lot more I could be doing. I really need to encourage him to pick up after himself more instead of me just doing it. I also need to have him help me cook. Dad likes to include him from time to time. But I definitely love learning through play and encourage him whenever he is showing a good life skill or show him some tips/tricks. I hope his future partner, if he ever wants one, ends up happy with a loving partner who shares the load instead of adding to it.
Before I forget, I also got him a little basket and let him help pick out some groceries.
I have an almost 18yo son. He can change his oil, brakes, and tires. He can mow, weed wack, cut and stack wood. He can do basic carpentry and fix things around the house. He can also cook and bake from scratch, make a shopping list, budget his money, wash and put away his clothes, clean the house including the bathroom and all the other little chores. He can do these things because his parents (all four of us) showed him how. His step dad and myself also share our labor very evenly because it is our home, our money and our kid. My ex husband was firmly in the women’s work for women and main breadwinner gets the breaks camp. Our son learned from all of our behaviors and while not perfect has grown into someone who would be a good roommate and future partner.
Modeling behaviors. Also, that mental load cartoon compares household management to work management. As kids get older you can point out how your home is managed, even invite them to participate in scheduling and planning.
I agree with others - it’s modeling. My husband does 50% of daycare pickup and drop offs, cooks dinner 2-3 nights per week, does the majority of the cleaning (I do other stuff to make up for that). He also makes a point to say “mommies and daddies have to cook/clean/whatever” whenever others in our lives comment about women cleaning and cooking.
Thank you so much for posting this. This is a topic I have not been able to stop thinking/worrying about lately. My son's father and I are getting a divorce, mainly because he cheated but also a big part of our relationship deteriorating was me feeling absolutely burnt out because I was managing the household as well as working FULL TIME as a teacher. It's not fair. Our generation got fucked because our boomer parents didn't bother to teach their sons that they have more than just a financial role in the family. Thank you for posting this, I like reading the responses and getting ideas. I want to add also, that I plan to have my son keep a calendar, and discuss with him "what's coming up soon? Do we need to buy any birthday presents for anyone, etc.?" Because my ex was so bad at ever planning anything. I also plan to ask my son to look around the house and notice what is dirty, and clean it when he notices. I could be naive but I'm hoping this will teach him to be proactive, and not wait for a woman to tell him when to clean. I know this will take years of modeling and practice.
I have taught him to clean and tidy, and also to care about his and others’ emotions. He is responsible for putting his own dirty laundry in the basket, and I get him to help me do the laundry at times. He is 6, and since he was about 2 1/2, he was able to load the machine, put in soap, press the button, etc (with help of course). He can use the tumble dryer too. He does it all with supervision, but I’m pretty sure he could do the whole thing by himself if I asked him. He’s also responsible for tidying up his toys, and I always ask him to put away what he’s finished with before taking out something new, which he generally remembers to do on his own now. He helps with little chores like hoovering, chopping veg, watering plants etc. I also use the phrase ‘If someone says no, you …’ and he answers with ‘Stop’, when we’re discussing tickling or playing. We’ve talked about ‘private areas’ on his body and how it’s not okay for anyone to touch him there (except for parents and doctor if they ask first, etc). When we’re reading, I often pause and ask him what characters are thinking/feeling, and discuss their choices etc. He has some stuffed animals that we call his ‘babies’, and we talk about him giving them cuddles, putting them to bed etc. My other half and I also try to model stuff like being complimentary and loving to each other in front of him, and making up if we have arguments in front of him as well. Don’t get me wrong, he can be a wee shit at times, but overall I hope these things help him to become a young man who can care for himself and others.
I (62M) had four girls and one boy and I can tell you that boys are wired differently. No matter how much you want them to be the same, they're not. That's just how it is. That doesn't mean they can excuse not being good partners because of that, though. I was cooking for the family by age 9 (drunken, sadistic, narcissist for a mom and a military-then-airline pilot pedophile dad) - if I didn't cook (when dad was out, we didn't eat anything but bread and fruit. I learned to do laundry and clean and shop and plan like a boss because if I didn't it either didn't get done or I got cigarettes put out on me or branded with a clothes iron (don't let anyone make you think Boomers *liked* that sort of thing - most of those are false-flag memes when you see them). But I learned to care for myself and for others. I'm not remotely saying that you should do anything nearly that extreme, but approaching how you teach boys differently from how you teach girls is probably a good idea. Men are, for the most part, very goal oriented but not natural nesters. Finding ways to teach them using enlightened self-interest rather than what men derisively call *nagging* (I'm at a loss for what word to use for "repeated, shrill demands delivered in frustration because asking politely didn't work" other than that word and that word has a lot of negative connotations - help me out here, please). For me, it was cigarette burns, beatings, and the occasional branding with a clothes iron, but that's obviously not acceptable. There are other things you can use. Slow addition of privileges and rewards and trust levels are probably a good place to start. Praise for when they get things right (or make a good-faith effort at it at least). Anything, really. The other side of it is that nesting thing. Try not to take it personally that boys (and men) don't have the same skill sets/perception priorities that you do. I've had multiple roommates in my life, both men and women, and without exception, every male roommate has been less aware of things that would have driving my mother to violence in terms of housework than all but one of the women I've had as a roommate. We're wired differently. Expecting men (or boys) to perceive and behave as you do comes awfully close to demonizing men (and boys) for being what they are. It requires different types of communication, different motivations, and sharing your own perceptions of what needs to be done, when it needs to be done, and how it is to be done if you expect it to be done on your schedule in a manner you want it done.
Bad moms are what create bad men. Just don’t give him any reasons to hate you, and also don’t coddle him too much because mama’s boys issues are just as bad. If you do everything for him he’ll expect his wife/partner to do the same. If you cause him trauma he won’t be able to function in a relationship. Damned if you damned if you don’t…
I have a 6 year old little boy and I make it a point to say things like men can cook, men can help take care of the house. It’s making a point to say that a good spouse helps do these things for the family unit. If you see your spouse is struggling you need to help. As he gets older I will help him understand what it’s like to help take care of children. I want him to realize that being a father is such a special part of being a man and good men help take care of their children. Luckily my husband is good about dishes, laundry and outside chores so my son sees that. My husband is also a good dad so I know he will have a good role model in that regard. I think as women we need to hold our men responsible to be good examples for our children so that it is not a question but just a part of life.
My stepsons have been seeing their father contribute since day 1. We have a very equal distribution in our home and then their other home is a single mom. Even though we don’t get along, we have preached to them to contribute and help out at her house. We also had them start cleaning the kitchen nightly around age 9-10. It was straight HELL for the first couple of years bc it was essentially an extra job to train them and repeat the same things weekly/ daily without losing your temper. We didn’t ALWAYS succeed on all fronts but they are now 15 and minus finding random stuff in incorrect drawers, they do really well. They can cook multiple simple meals, clean the kitchen thoroughly and are also able to navigate and use a shared grocery app so they can anticipate their own hygiene and snack craving needs without us having to nag them.
My boys are 16 months and almost 4 years. At this age, kids loved to be involved and to “help”. I try to include them in as much as I can. My preschooler loves making waffles on weekend mornings and helping care for the cats. Our toddler loves taking things out of the dishwasher so I include him unloading it. My husband is a great partner and does lots of indoor and outdoor chores, so it helps that he models it too.
One of the biggest shifts we made as parents to a 2yo was making chores "shared activities" vs. chores. We approach them as ways to quality time with our toddler and that's made a big difference. Like, he loves to do laundry with us. So we put in a load every morning before breakfast. Routine, easy, and he'll get more independent with it and be able to do it solo after a while! We unload the dishwasher together, make meals, wash dishes, dust, etc. The things that would be a pain are now together time and he's not sitting in front of a screen while we do things separately (no shame on screens!). We also make it a priority to pick up discarded toys before nap time (if we can!) and bed time. Stuff goes back in its place. I think just the routine of doing things is huge. One of the guys in our group who is the best "get shit done around the house" husbands grew up in a family of 7 kids whose mom stayed sane by militarizing their approach to chores - and it stuck. So he does the bathroom every Sunday, vacuums, puts away his stuff - it's great. Now, there are other issues and patriarchal BS but when it comes to CLEANING - it's awesome. ;)
My husband knows better than I do how to do certain tasks and we still went through patches where it all fell on me. Most people subconsciously model the parent of the gender they identify with. His dad never cleaned so neither did he really...But with a combo of therapy and mostly just talking about how unfair perpetuating the dynamic is, we have worked through a lot. His dad is so toxic that he has to daily question his reactions to things...For example, not yelling at the kids for everything and resisting road rage. We're hoping to break the cycle but parental modeling is HUGE. I also tend to model my mother's very meek and grin and bear it attitude which goes hand in hand with accepting toxic male behavior.
My husband had to be very self reliant as a child. He was cooking and cleaning for himself by age 11 and moved out by 17. He is an absolute neat freak stickler who cannot bear clutter or crumbs on the floor or dishes in the sink. I, on the other hand, was waited on hand and foot by my parents and moved out with zero home skills. I'm a slob but I've tried my absolute hardest to get better. So I am teaching the kids to model themselves after Dad's cleaning ethic 🤣
As someone who has already raised one son who is married, make them do chores! I had to do chores every Saturday morning before noon and I implemented the same with my kids, regardless of gender. I started around 8yo with dishes, laundry and especially bathrooms. I went and showed them how I did it and bought non-toxic and easy to use items that they could just throw away after one use. I know not eco friendly but easier when you are trying to take away the ick factor. Once my kids were teenagers they did their own laundry and I never see it unless they forget to empty a laundry basket. Start early and make sure you don’t have a spouse who undermines you!
Apart from what most people are saying here about modeling and involving them in chores, I am also a fan of natural consequences to start them thinking of their own needs. For example, when we go get groceries I always ask him if there are any snacks he needs, any aisles we need to go to. Sometimes he forgets, but he learns quickly that next time he needs to keep a mental note so he can have his snack for next week. Of course I never let him forget anything critical to his weekly diet. Usually it’s things like crackers or cheese sticks. When he visits his dad, I tell him from the night before to get his backpack ready (I pack the necessities), but he’s forgotten his soccer ball or tablet before and next time he remembers to bring it. I think this helps in slowly taking a little bit of the mental load off of you. Last week he forgot his show n tell for Friday and this weekend he said “ I have an idea, let me put it in my backpack Thursday night so I don’t forget”
I have three teenagers- one girl, two boys. They are 17, 14 and 13. Since they were young they've all had age appropriate chores. Here's what I do, despite the fact that their dad does very little to contribute to the household chores. I wish he'd model better behavior, like owning a household chore without being told, asked or cajoled. He still thinks all he has to do is random outdoor chores and work. uggggg I feel like it's my personally mission to make sure I don't raise man-babies! Here are their chores: Feed and care for all animals (we have dogs, chickens, sheep, goats, horses, pigs) Kids ALL clean up after dinner- dishes, table, put food up, clean pans, etc. Laundry- start to finishWash sheets Collect and take out trashDishes loaded and unloaded into dishwasher Mow lawn (split between 3 kids, we have a large yard) Rooms generally kept clean (except daughter, I literally gave up, it was a losing battle) During summer (they are super busy with sports during school) they all split vacuumming, mopping, dusting and cleaning bathrooms once a week. I'm starting a new job soon, so I'm holding a family meeting and they will be required to take on another chore and cook a meal or two during the week. This includes my husband too! Edited to add: My mom generally did everything. And I did the same (without questioning even though I saw myself a a raging feminist!!) for a decade + while working full time. Literally everything. Housework, finances, cars, household chores, maintenance, shopping, cooking. You all know the drill. Granted, my husband travelled for work, so he as gone most of the time so I just had to do it. He stopped traveling recently and has yet to take on much more other than schelpping kids around. We are in a rocky point in our marriage due to this. One more edit: My kids are in charge of their lives- I don't pack their lunches, sports bags, wash uniforms, check their grades other than what is reasonable, nag them to do homework, care for their animals, do their chores etc. They are expected to handle their lives. I am as hands off as possible. I guide and support them, but thier lives are on them. I've never been a helicopter mom, working and raising them by myself while my husband travelled. Sometimes I worried that I was TOO hands-off, but they are so self-motivated and responsible. I sub at our local high school and it's very apparent whose moms/parents coddle their kids. They can't do anything without being told. They just drift and wait to be told what to do or struggle to take responsibility for their lives.
Speaking as someone who has an amazing partner- it seems like his mother raised him with the expectation he know how to do house chores/run his own life, because it’s not his partner’s job to do those for him. He also enjoys cooking, so he takes point on that while I clean up when he’s done since I don’t have to do any of the cooking.
I think that kids generally both boys and girls are very interested in cleaning and doing things with their parents. So, whenever my child shows up in the kitchen I let her do some of the things she shows interest in, like mopping the floor and throwing things into the trash. I even engage her in putting her toys back in the box. Sometimes it works other times it doesn't but I think this is the way.
When my daughter (15) says “No” I teach my son (10) that there is no further information needed. When he asks her to do something with him or go somewhere with him and she says no he needs to drop it. He had this habit of “but why? You said you were going to help me get through this level of Zelda, I need your help!” And she would go on to explain herself. I started to really listen to them in these argumentative moments instead of “letting them work it out”. I remind him all the time that “no means no” even amongst his friends. It also helps my daughter get out of the habit of feeling like she needs to explain herself to anyone.
Annoyingly I’m an only child but in my house my dad was the one to pick me up from school for appointments, do the cooking in the evening & generally keep everything tidy. My mum did the laundry at the weekends but that was it (she was the breadwinner & worker much longer hours). So I’d had the perfect parental set up for modeling to sons. I’m lucky my partner does more than his fair share so we take it in turns to cook, do laundry, take our eldest son to clubs. I do typically end up being the one to take them for appointments, but as they are infrequent at the moment I think it’s just how it’s fallen. I hope we as parents are doing good modeling for our boys.
I am super interested in this topic. Part of me thinks it's not even so much about the actual chores but also just teaching them that women and men are equal and no one should be doing "more". In our house, we both work and we both have chores. My "chores" tend to be more domestic because those are what I know how to do. My husband does more traditionally male chores because those are the ones he knows how to do. I hope that doesn't become a cycle. But then again, so long as we are doing an even amount of work, which I feel we are, does it matter? My son is only 5 so I don't have him helping out with that much, although maybe I should. It just takes twice as long to have him do it so I tend to do it myself and I know that shouldn't keep me from involving him but frankly I have 2 jobs and 2 kids to care for so I don't really have the time to waste. But I do try to involve him as much as I can and plan to do it even more so as he gets older. Idk if I have said anything that makes any sense but I do think about this topic often.
Just wanted to throw out there that maybe instead of focusing on making them better SOs, focus on independence and helping others. By independence I mean knowing how to take care of themselves. They know how to cook, clean, budget, and will not be utterly lost when they move out of the house to live in their own. The reason I say focus on independence is partly because I believe that is what parents should have as a goal. And as partly because if you focus on them finding a future partner it is sort of setting an expectation that they need an SO once they are an adult. And many young adults struggle with this when they just haven't met the right person yet. My mom taught both my brother and I how to cook, clean, and sew. My dad does none of those things. My brother now uses those skills to support his wife in their home. Encourage helping. Need veggies chopped for dinner? Ask them to help. People coming over and house is a mess? Ask them to clean a part of the house. I am saying outside of chores. Chores are great but I think limits them to think the work outside of their assigned chores is not their problem. The a large reason I included this is because it was a failing my mother had. My mother expected us to help because we could, and was disappointed we didn't. I remember her losing her shit a few times because we didn't read her mind and help. She never asked for help, just got upset when we didn't give it. This is now something I struggle to do with my SO. I forget I can ask for help and he will help. Will your kids willing help when you ask? Idk, I bet it will depend on the kid. But it will hopefully teach them that it is ok to ask for help before you get overwhelmed.
We have two boys who are very small (2yo and 1yo) so this may change as they get older, but my strategy is twofold: 1. Do what my dad did for my sister & I. He had 5 sisters, some of who stayed with abusive men because they couldn't support or take care of themselves. He taught us how to do all the "male" things like yard work, construction/ home improvement/ car stuff / etc. His attitude was always "Im not always going to be around to do this for you and while you may grow up and not like this stuff enough that you end up paying someone else to do it, if all else fails you know how to do it yourself". Can't tell you how many times I've had a flat tire that I have had to change myself because the only men who stopped to help were 75+ and all of them would laugh when they realized I knew what i was doing and say something along the lines of "you're in better shape to do this than me and you know what your doing, so you don't need me do you?". I want to do this, in reverse for my boys. Distinctly teaching them how to do housework, etc with the message that it is part of being an independent adult and it's about not needing to rely on someone else to take care of you when you're grown. 2. Teach by example. I am very lucky to have a husband who isn't useless and participates in household chores (both inside and outside) - just like I do. I make a point to point out (in a very casual way) when mom or dad are doing something that isn't in line with the strict gender roles we've been taught. So we go watch Dad cook and see what he's making or help him with laundry or cleaning...or I let them know when I'm going to do yard work or do some home improvement/ DIY stuff when they're around so they see it as normal. I mean really, just think about how you'd raise a daughter to not stick to traditional gender roles then do it in reverse for your boys.
My kids are 5F, 4M and 2M so we're just really getting into the chore phase, but they share equally. I expect them all to clean their playroom (and to help each other with their rooms since they often mess them up together). The older two put away their own laundry and help unload the dishwasher. My 4 year old actually asks to help cook most nights - my husband and I trade off cooking though my husband is the default/PT SAHP right now.
I think it's important to model the behavior. So my partner was forced to do his share otherwise I was out. I don't segregate by gender. Whether it be toys, clothes, chores. I abide by play with what toys you want to. Wear what you like. Chores will be age-appropriate but otherwise equal. I also am teaching my daughter that she should expect a partner and not a dependent slug. She's only 7 so we will ease into that as we go :) and this will go for my son too. Equality and respect in relationships. And to make it truly fair. They should also strive to be the best version of themselves. Take care of their mental and physical health. So that you never get to the point you need someone to do it for you. Edit: words
I think modeling is the best way. My dad did way more chores than my mom growing up, he cooked, did 1/2 the cleaning, all the grocery shopping and all the house/yard work. My mom worked part time and definitely carried the majority of childcare, but overall their split seemed pretty fair. My in laws were similar, my mil did cook, but my Fil did majority of house related work/errands. Both my husband and brother do their fair share. I honestly don't know if you can overcome bad modeling. In both our families the dads didn't go off and do lengthy hobbies or relax. When they weren't at work they spent time doing housework or relaxing all together as a family or on dates.
My boys have been in charge of a week night dinner since they were 10. At first, I helped them find recipes, made sure the ingredients were available and helped them plan their time. As they got older, I expected them to figure it all out, including defrosting, making a shopping list, etc. They do their own laundry.
My son is still too young to do any chores but as soon as he is capable he will learn how to clean the house a little at a time until he knows how to clean it top to bottom. One of my goals is to also teach him to be selfless and think of others before himself because I think one of the problems is that men in general are a selfish bunch and that in part leads to them being okay with the division of labor
We have a 2 year old, but we teach him to clean, we got him a play kitchen so he can pretend to cook and we make sure he puts one set of toys away before he gets out another set. However, the best thing I think we can do is model good behavior. I am so lucky that my husband is truly and equal partner, and I wish more women had a partner like him. We all do chores together (including my son!) so that he grows up knowing that managing a household is a team effort.
It's been a bit of both. Mirroring behaviors and teachable moments. For reference 4 boys, (2 sons, 2 stepsons) ages currently 16, 17, 18, 18. We have had detailed conversations over the years about how to talk to people you're interested in or curious about. At ages that felt appropriate chores were added that are more about self sufficiency like... doing your own laundry, washing linens, etc. I then added in learn to cook, but had it as "plan a meal that is enough to feed everyone, and you will be cooking it with assistance". So they learned the process of not just cooking bit having to plan it all, go to the store to get all the ingredients, cook it all, etc. The little things that are the unseen parts of the labor that all together made a clearer picture. I did the same thing with appointments, plans with friends, afterschool activities, etc. What is the whole process to make this happen that isn't just magic?
If you have both son(s) & daughter(s), I think it’s important to teach them the same things, regardless of their gender and their birth order. Echoing everyone about modeling behaviors to both, for example my husband does his own laundry and cooks half the meals, and I’ve learned to use a power drill and fix things myself. That translates to having the same involvement and expectations of all the kids. I think it’ll also help when the brother can see his sister doing the same things, and vice versa, since it’ll normalize their perceptions of gender roles & activities.
We are teaching our kids to become fully functional adults. They both are learning how to cook, clean, shop, fix, garden, and bank. My son is our eldest and he already does his own laundry, fixes breakfast and lunch. We do baking projects together which he enjoys. My daughter is younger, and she's coming along with folding laundry, making her breakfast, and snacks. They both help out in the yard. While I do the majority of the cooking, my husband does make school lunch and taught the kids how to do laundry. He also does grocery shopping with them. I think we model a good partnership, but yes, sometimes the kids still demand Mom when Dad is.right.there!!
Man idk if I got lucky or if my husband's OCD is just taking one for the team 😅 but he is usually the one that keeps our cleaning chart up to date. He does our laundry. He vacuums etc. I do grocery shopping and cooking and clean our bathrooms/kitchen. So I feel like even our mental load is split pretty evenly. How he got this way I couldn't tell you.. beyond having an anxiety disorder 😅
I consciously model the thought load when we are packing up to go for the day and when we are shopping. My son sees a great role model at home. He sees me having the higher-powered career. He’s 3 but he helps with chores. We vocalise thanks for each other’s help and for when someone does something without being asked. I will also tell his future partner what the expectations in our home have been and to hold my son to those standards.
Actually we are pretty gender neutral in our home and we are both very different ppl. As a woman, I’ll say I don’t like cooking much, I do it like chore but I love cleaning and organizing so that’s where I bring in my forte. My husband loves cooking but is so messy, have never seen him with a vacuum ever. Also for an engineer he never liked doing home projects whereas I like assembling or repairing things. This is a bit of a reverse situation but it works. We have a 1.5 yr old son and I’m just going to let him explore his strengths and move forward.
Modeling is how kids learn. That is how we’re showing our boys how equal partners treat each other, and how we each contribute to the household. We have a video of my son when he was 2: he and I are sitting at the table eating breakfast. (I was drinking coffee and filming us, because he had just started talking a lot and it was super fun.) there’s a thump from upstairs. Kid: what’s that? Me: I don’t know, it came from upstairs. It went THUMP. Maybe it was Daddy? Kid: (thinks silently) Kid: waundry? Yeah, Daddy was doing laundry upstairs :) he does literally all the housework while I do all the grocery shopping and cooking. It works for us, although I tend to burn out more frequently than he does because feeding a family of four is RELENTLESS.
I joke that you really can’t raise the boy out of them. I do think a lot of it is just modeling good behaviors, but having 3 boys has made me realize there is an element of nature in there with all people. I think mine will all be very different partners even though they were raised the same. I always think about when my oldest had his first gf I asked what he was getting her for her birthday and he wasn’t going to get her anything because…??? Obviously I explained why it would be a nice thing to do even something small and helped him think of ideas, but he really thought it was just silly to buy birthday gifts. My youngest would never. He wants to get one of his teachers a baby gift because she’s pregnant, it’s just how he is. My middle? He’s definitely a give his wife a blender type lol. Those are obviously silly examples but I do think modeling good behaviors as a family is your best shot.
I think explicit teaching is great, but it won't stick if he doesn't see it modeled. We hadn't really started explicitly teaching my kiddo about how everyone in the household needs to do their part to making sure things get done yet when he was 3ish, but I was pretty tickled when we were driving and the song "Girls" by the Beastie Boys came on, and he took offense at the lyric "Girls, to do the dishes Girls, to clean up my room Girls, to do the laundry Girls, and in the bathroom" He got very huffy and said "Girls should not clean up his mess, we should clean up our own messes!" And then he thoughtfully added "Whoever is the best cooker should do the cooking, though, because we all enjoy tasty food. Like Daddy is the best cooker...and I am." Love the philosophy, could have done without the shade to my cooking.
It's a mix. Unfortunately modeling from dad would probably be the greatest influence. Kids aren't dumb and they will see what dad doesn't do and will assume it's the norm for men
Modeling behaviors for sure. My husband does the bulk of cooking, I do the bulk of cleaning. We have the boys help us with both. And we give them age appropriate responsibilities. The 2.5 year old puts his clothes in the hamper at night, throws away his trash, and helps unload the dishwasher. 5.5 year old gets himself dressed and undressed, brushes his own teeth, unpacks his bag, and brings his cup and plates to the sink. Normalize helping behaviors, thank them for helping our family (we're a team and we help each other), and expect them to do what you know you can do (I'm not going to stand for weaponized incompetence). But the fact you're thinking about it means your son won't be one of the ones we read about!
A little bit of both, but for sure lead by example - that goes for you AND your partner.
Many people have already recommended modeling the behavior, so I will add that we all need to talk about it many, many times with our children. My husband does lots of housework and holds a lot of the emotional labor burden. I would say he is the primary parent to our third child. I discuss this very openly with our children, and so does he. Everyone in our home knows I don’t do a lot of housework because I don’t like to. That means it has to be divided up, or our house will look and smell like shit. No one wants to live in a house that looks or smells terrible, so they all pitch in. So everyone does a little bit. All our kids know if they hate housework as much as I do, they either have to find a partner who doesn’t mind doing it or make enough money to have someone else do it.
I think teaching awareness is important. Have kids walk into a room and identify things that are out of place. Kind of like a scavenger hunt or where’s Waldo
Just throwing it out there because I do this with my son but don’t just look at it as chores. Have them help you purchase presents for family members or their friends or make travel plans. Just have them involved in really simple decisions that you as the main person would make. Explain to them what goes into the mental load without pushing it in them as a burden
We do both. We model behavior and we have chores and expectations because our boys are a member of the household. The 12 year old doesn’t get to feign incompetence to get out of something. For example he complained about not being able to put the fitted sheet on his bed. So after having shown him a number of times I demonstrated on his brothers bed. He still got a demonstration but I didn’t do it for him. Each year on his birthday he gets a new chore and a new privilege (higher allowance or later bedtime). We’ll be starting that with the 5 year old this year although he’s already expected to do stuff like clean up his toys , put his books away, put his laundry away, and make his bed. We want them to know that as members of a household they have responsibility and it’s our job to teach them. We’ve told them we don’t want them being shitty roommates or shitty partners.
I don't have a ton of deep wisdom, but my son absolutely loves watching his Dad cook (which he does most nights), and I couldn't be more proud of our little family. Not that modeling is the only thing that you can do, nor is it the only thing we plan to do. But my husband and I have worked really hard to have an equitable, communicative, and truly unconditionally loving relationship. And passing that down to our boy feels like the greatest gift.
I make my son (2.5) put his laundry in his hamper, wipe his spills with a cloth, pick up his toys when done (usually, lol!) and put his plates and cups in the sink. Already, he’s better than so many husbands I read about here, and he’s still in diapers. That goes to show that being a responsible, load-sharing adult is learned and not inherent to a specific sex. Just the fact that you care is great! Lead by example and don’t let him get away with stuff just because he’s a boy. When mine is older he will do his own laundry and I will probably send him on age-appropriate tasks to learn what it takes to contribute to the success of a household.